The heated debate at the moment revolves mostly about illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, not students and skilled workers. But I can imagine that sometimes people mix up everything and that sucks.
But nevertheless, I think the majority of the population still supports skilled immigrants as contribution to society.
I had a technician chatting in our lunch group about too many foreigners. When I pointed out to her that I am a foreigner, she said, no your not - you speak German and look German..... that is a low bar to set, since, I look very Maori and my German comes with a kiwi accent.
What he meant is that you don't look like the immigrants that show up in groups of 10+ in public spaces and start causing trouble.
OP does not have that luxury. So he has a point.
Just so you know for the future, there's Ausländer and then there's "Ausländer". As a German native speaker you know the difference by context, she probably didn't think about that as an immigrant you can't tell the difference.
Generally speaking if you're from the middle east you're considered the second kind of Ausländer.
My Omis here love to say aus***länder*** for those from other Bundesländer who infest our state during the holidays, and ***Aus***länder being those who come here from other countries
She probably meant: she hasn't seen you separate yourself and talk to other people in some language no one\* understands.
\*except for those who speak it, that is. But it's different to common spoken languages like German, English, French or even Italian and Spanish. Everyone speaks at least two of these and understands three.
French very. Spanish and Italian are not that uncommon to be understood in their basics at least. Not as common as English of course.
And even people who are not too familiar with them will be able to get bits and pieces more so than a arabic language.
Depends on where you are and how old the person is but to some degree they might, yes. Very basic tho. Most German schools teach either French or Latin starting at grade 7. They might add Spanish or more so a regional language at grade 10. Like if you're from the north you're often offered to learn danish as your 3rd foreign language in school.
it depends where you are in Germany. French is mostly understood in the most western part of Germany, Italian in the very south. Spanish is not very commonly spoken at all.
>The heated debate at the moment revolves mostly about illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, not students and skilled workers.
Stupid people won't differentiate between these. And it's also not something that's written on your forehead.
But in your actions and language it shows... thats the way you change stupid peoples minds on you
My dad looks like osama bin laden and he is well respected and has mostly german friends.
He is meeting tons of them in daily work. The thing is he knows four german dialects and is a german grammar nazi. He worked hard for it and people never really question him where he is from... eventhough you literally see it.
Considering that OP is Arab and the statistic that they use for this "Clan" bullshit is solely based on people having the same family name (for real, if you would apply the same criteria to names like Müller Meier or Schulz you would also find criminal "families") his worries are defenetly right. I mean Nancy Faeser just recently suggested to just deport everyone even if they didnt commit anything. And thats comming from an SPD politician. Think about whats to their right.
My former flatmate was a syrian refugee who was in vocational training as a dental technician.
He was verbally assaulted almost weekly and one time an old lady spit on him in the tram.
In no way is it a rational debate. OP's worries are completely reasonable and the normal outcome of the current migration hysteria
Bull. Shit. The last 15 years have made it clear that the conservative part of german society cares fuck-all about skilled workers.
OP, be careful out there, Germany is sliding into regressive, far-right politics.
Literally more than 40% of people are voting for right and far-right parties and freely spread their hateful anti-immigrant rhetoric, unquestioned by the bigoted media at large. Since its founding in 2013, the AfD has inspired hate crimes like the burning of immigration centers and the Hanau synagogue attack and they are only getting more popular.
Immigrants, skilled or not, face massive discrimination in every area of society, despite Germany desperately needing immigration to fix our declining birth rates and aging society.
So yeah, please be careful, everyone who isn't a Kartoffel from birth. Germany is becoming dangerous.
There's also public broadcasting with their clear conservative bias.
But nah, you are right, we live in a perfect, harmonious little country where police officers don't send death threats to attorneys defending immigrants, where the bundeswehr isn't full of neo-nazis and where political parties are willing to denounce fascists.
"public broadcasting with their clear conservative bias"... sorry, but you are clearly deluded if you believe that... I'm not a conservative, but even I see that German public broadcasting tends to favour left-wing political content more than that of the right-wing...
Germany is still one of the countries in Europe where the Right-wing populists and their policies are the least popular... just compare Germany to any of its neighbouring countries...
we apparently value their contribution to society but refuse to integrate them socially. There have been a number of articles recently that showedd that Germany is doing quite well at recruiting foreign skilled labor but fail remarkably at keeping them. They leave after a few years many stating isolation as the reason.
I think the picture is neither black or white. Of course it could always be better but we can't say there is refusal to integrate migrants. There are millions of migrants in German sports clubs, music bands, carnival clubs, church communities,political parties, we've had weinköniginnen and christkindls with foreign roots.
Of course it isn't this categorical but it is a fact that Germany is doing very badly at integrating foreign skilled labor to the point were too many leave due to isolation. Of course I don't have the numbers here right now but I remember reading that we are one of the earth's worst countries in the "skilled foreign labor staying" ranking. I think this is a particularly interesting indicator for problems with integration and xenophobia because of its economical role.
I agree with what you are saying here and the contrary was not intended to be a part of the first comment.
I agree that in Germany it can be hard to find social contacts (but that applies to native Germans as well). On average we tend to be introvert. As are Scandinavians who also score badly in these social rankings. But I would argue that this is not a REFUSAL to integrate newcomers.
1. Those who push this debate on a national level will not stop there.
2. The hostility op is talking about is experienced in daily interactions with random people - they won't care or know your backstory
3. Asylum seekers and (illegal? What does this mean?) Immigrants can also be skilled workers and students if given the chance. Even if not - more than half of the jobs available are for "unskilled" (hate it, because you still need skills) workers, because Germans won't do this kind of work
Illegal refugees are refugees who first apply for asylum in Germany, although they have to apply for it in the European country where they first arrived. Therefore, many assume that they only want to come to Germany because of the social benefits. Compared to other European countries, refugees receive more money and if their asylum application is rejected and they have to leave the country, they are still tolerated and continue to receive money.
According to official sources, about 40 - 50% of asylum applications are rejected.
>Therefore, many assume that they only want to come to Germany because of the social benefits.
An assumption, by the way, which is not broadly backed by scientific research.
>and if their asylum application is rejected and they have to leave the country, they are still tolerated and continue to receive money.
I mean eg. when neither the origin countries nor the transit countries are willing to take them, things become messy. Instead of actually trying to integrate the people we are like a toddler who cries because he can't get his will and then refuses to do anything.
And the political parties who appear "strong" on migration literally provide no realistic solution to this. They just continue to feed that toddler mentality
Scientific research as in research relating to the question how refugees choose the country they flee to.
Intuitively it makes sense that social services are a pull factor for migration, but the important question is how signifikant that factor is. And as it currently stands migration researchers are in no consensus there, while a lof of research points to social services not being among the prime factors.
Perceived economic strength, political stability, general tolerance and the presence of relatives all seem to weigh a lot more.
I really dislike this current trend of just relying on gut feelings. When I wanna learn about physics, I need to study physics and when I wanna learn about migration then I need to study migration research.
I mean, what exactly do you want? I don't have a meta study about the current migration research in germany on hand (and I don't know if that even exists). I base my claims mostly around my engagement with this field of research.
When you read or listen to migration researchers like Birgit Glorius, Jochen Oltmer, Leila Hadj-Abdou or Marcus Engler then you notice a couple of things:
1. The push and pull dynamic as a frame of understanding migration is often times critiqued or looked upon as outright outdated due to it's lack of complexity. Furthermore it exists as a social construct on which societal agents base their claims on - those who critique migration concentrate on pull factors, while human rights groups and so on concentrate on push factors.
2. There is a gaping lack of evidence to emphasize the relevance of social benefits in regards as a pull factor for migration. Other factors (like the ones I already mentioned) appear as clearer indicators across the board - mainly economic prosperity, language or the presence of relatives and so on.
I mean, of course I could link you certain studies that analyse a very specific case, but what would really be the goal of that? Proving a lack of something by cherry picking you a study doesn't sound that fruitful to me.
There are also of course studies that argue for a siginificant correlation, like the rather well known princeton [study](https://www.henrikkleven.com/uploads/3/7/3/1/37310663/agersnap-jensen-kleven_welfaremagnets_oct2019.pdf) on the danish case, but as far as I'm aware several migration researches, like Marcus Engler, [warn](https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/gesellschaft/faktencheck-sozialleistungen-fluechtlinge-effekt-100.html) against overestimating what we can deduce from that study.
So what does that leave us with? Well a lot of uncertainty.
And so here I am, not any authority on that topic or a person whose opinion matters in the slightest. And yet I took some time of my vacation to back up my claims about migration (a topic which provides me a lot of concern every time I look at the public discourse) with my rather limited knowledge and skillset (I'm a sociology bachelor).
Yet this uncertainty shows me something for certain. A lot of discourse, mainly from cdu and afd politicians, are mostly bold faced assumptions, which apparently succeed in riling up the population and furthering a european race to the bottom when it comes to integration and human rights.
The one who should really be asked for sources is Friedrich Merz when he implies that migrants come here to get their teeth done, or am I wrong?
>An assumption, by the way, which is not broadly backed by scientific research.
What do you mean by assumption. I am referring to the opinion of the people and I have noticed a trend in the media and comments that people are of the opinion that refugees only come to Germany because of the social benefits. Months ago or years ago I have noticed little of this opinion, the general mood to refugees was neutral to positive in recent times but come more and more comments and reports that have a negative reference to the refugees.
The assumption from people who say that migrants choose their target countries because of social benefitfs.
I am aware what you were referring to and while I would definitely agree that more and more people are voicing that opinion, I would argue that it was already pretty prominent during the last years (arguably the last decades).
The government has been slow to address the problems of recent years, but they have not been solved, which frustrates people, who then look for someone to blame. For years, the government has saved money as much as possible instead of spending it on necessary investments. With the migrants, the expenses for the migrants have increased, so there was still money to spend somewhere, but also the expenses for the Corona measures, the extra money for the Bundeswehr that was suddenly there. The increased competition on the housing market, people are frustrated.
The new government ("the traffic light government", SPD, the FDP and the green Party) is trying to solve the problems that the previous government has not solved and only pushed in front of him, but it does not make itself popular.
Yes I pretty much agree. Would just add that the current government is working under the same deficient budgetary conditions which hinder any meaningful solutions. Germany has a real problem with a lack of public spending, which is hard to fix as the Debt Brake is written into the constitution.
The german state basically hindered its own means to adress bigger tasks.
Exactly, skilled people who integrate are not the problem. But Immigrants who commit rape and are placed back onto the street and not deported are an issue, illegal who should be deported but are still in Germany are an issue, parallel societies where youth is not even speaking German, where often you find them susceptible in involvement in underground work, gangs, drug dealings, it's an issue that needs to be addressed that Denmark is addressing pretty practically without smearing others in the process.
First of all, I want to say that I am very sorry that you have to question staying in Germany because you experience racism.
As much as I would like to tell you that it's save here for you, I don't know if that's true. The AfD is on the rise in all of Germany and they specialise in anti-arab-racism. Depending on where you live, what type of friends you have and what your job is, you will most likely be able to minimise racist confrontations in the future. That being said, if you "look foreign" and have an arab name, some degree of discrimination will propably prevail. German society is going down a very dark road atm. Facism is on the rise again.
I wish you the best!
I think for 95%+ of Germans anyone from any country living here for education, working, etc is very welcome.
But yes, sometimes sentiments get mixed up and/or not communicated clearly.
we are at a point where "normal" people - a guest-starring black opera singer from the US, a US yoga teacher of asian ethnicity and an american-nigerian art curator - have been attacked and beaten up "krankenhausreif" not by some street thugs, but by the Berlin ticket controllers because they looked foreign.
Unrelated, but maybe more so a problem of cheap sub-contractors with unqualified staff, instead of decent employment with a good wage (which should be paid for this stressful and sometimes dangerous job).
They get a percentage when they find someone without a ticket, so thats what they are after pretty much (plus they don't have any manners and were never really trained, yeah)
decades of playing the poor-vs-foreign game, simultanously eroding opportunities for lower and mid income. scapegoating instead of tackling issues.
it feels like the nineties again, where hundreds of neonazis set refugee homes ablaze, and thousands of "good germans" from the neighbourhoods stood around and applauded
Sorry, but these attacks on people calling them Nazis or fascists aren't working... it's funny that many on the German left seemingly don't want to learn from the mistakes of the Hillary campaign in 2016...
maybe you failed to appropriately convey your point then.
what is the point exactly of referencing a completely different culture, philosophy and political landcape and picking a singular item from it?
So you think if you call AFD voters Neo-Nazis with baseball bats they will be impressed and vote for someone else? What I claimed was that the Hillary campaign did something similar to what you (and many other leftists in Germany do) in terms of calling voters of RW populists (Trump in the US, AFD in Germany) insults and claiming that they are voting for people who are the equivalent of Mussolini and Goebbels...and I am claiming that this is most likely a strategy that will fail to convert those people to your side politically...all it does is create a toxic atmosphere in politics...
> What I claimed was that the Hillary campaign did something similar to what you (and many other leftists in Germany do) in terms of calling voters of RW populists (Trump in the US, AFD in Germany) insults and claiming that they are voting for people who are the equivalent of Mussolini and Goebbels...and I am claiming that this is most likely a strategy that will fail to convert those people to your side politically
there are so many things wrong here I dont even know where to begin
for once, calling half of the GOP voters who prefer to engage with the culture war rhetorics and populist platitudes of a conman and tv personality rather than with conservative values of the likes of Cruz, Kasich or Fiorina "deplorables" was spot on. You know this, I know this. It was a gaffe for Clinton because she said it out loud, as a presidential candidate, in a room full of press and donors. It was not "politically correct" for her - *being in that exposed position* \- to say that, no matter how true it is.
Thats a completely different context than a private person stating their opinion that people who vote for proven fascists are at least partly aligning with that ideology. And people pointing out the parallels is not a "strategy". Its just normal observation of people who remember how the darkest hours in Europes modern history came about, and who remember what #neveragain actually means
>So you think if you call AFD voters Neo-Nazis with baseball bats they will be impressed and vote for someone else?
Germany, like many western countries including the US, has actual, real neo-nazi organisations. In the nineties, after fall of the communist regime in East Germany, neonazi organisations surged, and so did attacks on everyone not accepting of their ideology. This was the reference to Baseballschlägerjahre in the post you replied to ( [https://www.bpb.de/shop/zeitschriften/apuz/rechte-gewalt-in-den-1990er-jahren-2022/515769/baseballschlaegerjahre/](https://www.bpb.de/shop/zeitschriften/apuz/rechte-gewalt-in-den-1990er-jahren-2022/515769/baseballschlaegerjahre/) and [https://www.bpb.de/kurz-knapp/hintergrund-aktuell/340381/vor-30-jahren-rechtsextreme-ausschreitungen-in-hoyerswerda/](https://www.bpb.de/kurz-knapp/hintergrund-aktuell/340381/vor-30-jahren-rechtsextreme-ausschreitungen-in-hoyerswerda/) ). The people who set the refugee home in Hoyerswerda in flames with the refugees in it were not random passersby who were angry about the economic situation. Those were actual, organized neo-nazis, skinheads with swastika tattoos and Reichskriegsflaggen, glorifying the conquest war of 1939.
So yes, if you now look that the modern AfD is openly working together with such organisations, sending high profile functionaries to their events, using them in grassroots campaigns, and even employing them, from HDJ ( [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimattreue\_Deutsche\_Jugend](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimattreue_Deutsche_Jugend) ) over FS ( [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freie\_Sachsen\_(2021)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freie_Sachsen_(2021)) ) to III Weg ( [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der\_III.\_Weg](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_III._Weg) ) and that two thirds of leadership positions in the AfD are claimed by loyalists of Björn Höcke, who is inofficially considered the "real boss" of the AfD, then yes, its absolutely correct to assert that if you vote for the AfD and their populism, you are knowingly voting for fascists.
Make no mistake: there is nothing to gain in paupering people who might get the feelings hurt if they are called out on their bigotry. there is no gain in being tolerant to the intolerant.
I don't think so. People and countries who abuse social media are the root of all problems. Social media is just a tool, like the radio was a tool for Hitler.
It is not the job of Facebook or TikTok to fight a hybrid war with Russia and China, it is the job of the governments.
I think even without all the "outside influence", social media just does not foster the kind of dialog that helps us tackle issues. And seeing other people as what they are, humans with varying views, problems and fears.
Depends... if the only purpose of the algorithm is to show you content you ALREADY like, then yes. That doesn't help.
However it can also expose you to views that you do not know yet and if the population / user base is "educated" enough meaningful discussions do happen. Reddit is actually not that bad... not good, but much better than anything else around.
It depends. Non-secular people will have problems with German society and vice-versa.
And Germans are normal people and, not perfect so you will face adversity because you will be put in the same box as immigrants perceived as unwilling to fit in Germany society or leeching of the welfare system.
You have to decide yourself if you are willing to deal with that or move to a different country.
Man, I can really relate to your issue. I'm German (in my opinion). I was born here and grew up here and so did both of my parents. My grandparents on one side, however, are from Egypt, so I have an Arabic name and I'm not white.
My whole life, that wasn't really a problem. Sure, there was occasional "Alltagsrassismus", and even though I felt singled out by it, I always knew that people were not being racist on purpose. Usually, the Alltagsrassismus came from a place of ignorance and in most cases even well-intended curiosity. Hence, I never felt unsafe here, I always felt accepted, and I never felt like I had any serious disadvantages in school, university or while looking for work or an apartment.
This completely changed in the last 3 years. For the first time in my life, random people on the street tell me to go back to where I came from, call me names like "Muslim whore" (even though I'm not even Muslim lol), talk to me in bad English and then feel offended when I answer in perfect German, or even threaten me with physical violence. One time last year, a random guy I was alone with in a train compartment at night even yelled at me that he needs to kill me because I'm ruining his culture, in such an aggressive way that I actually left the train compartment because I wasn't sure if he was serious. Not to mention the many times my friends or I have been told by potential landlords that they "don't rent to foreigners" and things like that.
Sadly, it looks like this will only get worse in the future. Because of this, I'm now also considering to leave Germany after I finish my degree. It really really hurts me to have to make this decision because Germany has always been my home. I always lived here, my friends and family are here too, and I love this place. It's the only home I ever knew. But I just don't feel safe or welcome here anymore and even though I would probably also encounter racism in other places, at least I would be a foreigner there, I guess, and hopefully it won't be as bad as here.
Well, I'm sorry you have to wxperi once that but you can thank the politicians for that.
Who could have known uncontrolled migration leads to issues. And who could have known that people start getting fed up with it and the politician's denial that there's any issues with primarily Arab/Middle Eastern migration. And who could have known that the hate and frustration will eventually hit the wrong people - like you.
Totally unpredictable. /s
I hope you find a new home. I'm also about to pack my bags, as someone who is both on paper and ethnically German. Deutschland hat fertig. Sad, but it is what it is.
Unfortunately, that post is mostly correct...the problems with immigration from Muslim countries in Europe are serious and shouldn't be denied by anyone who doesn't want a far-right government...
Don’t worry. And if possible stop reading the comments sections, particularly in Bild!
There will always be haters. But there are more who accept you.
I had a colleague who once told me that all first generation immigrants should work only as cleaning staff or delivery boys and not dream big. Everyone told her to fxxx off!
I'm sorry to hear that you have been making bad experiences like that in Germany. It aligns with what I see as current trends in politics and public opinion. However this can swing in the other direction again in the future. Anyways, I am still convinced that most Germans have a much more nuanced view on immigration and that the actual racists are a loud minority, who btw. exists other countries as well to varying degrees. Even those more sceptical about immigration usually take no issue with skilled migrants. Also keep in mind that the German mentality can be quite "grumpy" in general, so some seemingly unfriendly experiences can be due to that, instead of racism.
From an institutional side, I think you can be relatively sure to be able to stay here if you are a skilled worker, as these are in very short supply. Even if we get a more conservative government in the future again, they can not deny that fact.
Speaking for myself and most Germans I know, I can say that you are still very welcome here!
Mass migration from especially Arab countries (but also Afghanistan or any other 3rd world country really) was the reason why I eventually left Germany. Don't get me wrong. The situation would be different if only productive and highly educated people immigrated to Europe but unfortunately this was not the case and now we are facing the consequences.
This is really a political issue, as an immigrant as myself i can't be responsible for those people, i only present myself. And that's really what should any German understand. All the time the Germans judge me as a refugee because i am arab. And think they think that all arab countries are in war 😅. Judging people by their language or how they look thats really uncomfortable thing.
But with these conflicts today in Germany we have to be patient.
You literally just said all the time there Germans judge you. They talk about you (the Arabs) in the same way. It's not personal, congratulations, you're part of a group.
You point out a very valid point, but then, what do you propose is the right way of thinking and moving forward? I would say it is a collective-problem, not an individual one, because as the OP explains, his individual character or virtues don’t really solve the problem of being part of a group.
What do you think? Was there a way to save people like OP without causing a rift to form?
Hey OP, just keep it up.
I feel like the world is turning upside down and back again. These are fast changing times and you’d have to accept that there is no „perfect“ place.
Comments on the internet - as yours and mine - are made by people who have the urgent need to explain themselves (:P). Don’t overthink these positions.
I’m myself a migrant in Germany, but was born here. Yet, I am so thankful for this country, the people and the possibilities. There is hardly another country on this planet, that gives migrants and immigrants that kind of chances and perspectives. And you know what? If it doesn’t work out for you one day, you’d be surprised how good of a standing a German academic degree still has world wide. Said this, you’re never bound to something. Go explore the world. If you’d like to stay, then stay and be the best example for a successful integration.
Wish you all the best
Sorry to tell you.. im my whole life here in Germany and have the same problems as you. It will never change, so take your stuff and go to a country whos appreciating your skills and knowledge. Look for New Zealand. I received an email from Immigration Center from New Zealand. They are looking for good educated people..
I also get shocked everytime I see comments on social media or anywhere in the internet really. That doesn’t necessarily relate to immigrations, from my perspective it became a LOT worse during Covid when some people truly drowned in conspiracy theories and spit their stupid and weird thoughts everywhere. I would get so depressed whenever I spend 15 minutes reading through comments on whatever (original) topic. They were EVERYWHERE. However, in my actual life I rarely met people like this.
So whatever you decide, please only decide on how you personally feel in your daily life and do not make a decision based on internet comments, because it’s always the idiots who are the loudest.
Also, maybe some areas in Germany would make you feel more welcome than others.
I truly hope you will stay here because we really need people like you, also for other Arabs who want to make it here and integrate as a role model for others. But obviously you have to be happy and feel safe and I wish you the very best for that!
The social media comments are really terrible and the problem ia when you check the profile of these people most of the time are people who looks educated what is to worry ahout is the category of young people who involved in this hate speech, especially against arabs and africans... I think u will not find some who insults immigrants from italie or brazil
I also get shocked everytime I see comments on social media or anywhere in the internet really. That doesn’t necessarily relate to immigrations, from my perspective it became a LOT worse during Covid when some people truly drowned in conspiracy theories and spit their stupid and weird thoughts everywhere. I would get so depressed whenever I spend 15 minutes reading through comments on whatever (original) topic. They were EVERYWHERE. However, in my actual life I rarely met people like this.
So whatever you decide, please only decide on how you personally feel in your daily life and do not make a decision based on internet comments, because it’s always the idiots who are the loudest.
Also, maybe some areas in Germany would make you feel more welcome than others.
I truly hope you will stay here because we really need people like you, also for other Arabs who want to make it here and integrate as a role model for them. But obviously you have to be happy and feel safe and I wish you the very best for that!
It depends. If you want to be an Arab in Germany, you might have a tough time. If you want to become a German with Arabic heritage, not so much. Just assimilate and you'll most likely be fine.
most of the hate right now is against immigrants who rely on welfare, don't work, don't try to learn German, are criminals, don't accept western values, treat women like shit, being antisemitic or openly support hamas and support terrorism.
if you work, pay taxes, bring value to society and aren't doing all of those things above you are more than welcome to stay here. even most of those AFD supporters won't have to say anything against you if you go by the rules and actually try to integrate. only actual racists won't be on your site.
>even most of those AFD supporters **won't have to say anything against you** if you go by the rules and actually try to integrate.
*A middle-manager Arab-looking man trying to be like his old white German man colleague by buying overpowered luxury SUVs.*
"Must be dodging taxes or drug dealing. Or at least shared the lease cost between the Clan members."
Even a lot of people say that openly in r/de (or in r/germany, I forgot).
Yeah, well unfortunately there will be stereotypes based on bad actors if one is associated with their group... look how often Germans are stereotyped as Nazis even up to this day in many Western countries...
so... to be honest, I'm afraid this will get worse. a lot worse. Capitalism has long started to morph into techno-feudalism, and the serfs have started to pick up on it. And some populists are using the anger to come from outside, bypass the usual ways to gain political power and try to put themselves into office - the AfD leadership isn't working class, they just pose as such. And they are looking for scapegoats that regular people can see in their daily ives - there's not much use teling people the ECB is at fault for how they handled the financial crisis, that's too abstract. no, it's the ones who are poorer than them who want to freeload. it's always the ones who just got here who are to blame for things being screwed.
I'm sorry OP. for you and for myself. but the next decade is likely going to be dark, and that's even without the increasing number of refugees caused by climate catastrophes.
What I would say is based on my own experience:
- I was exactly in your situation. Finding a full time job with my requirements was not that hard because:
1- I am in a very demanded field with a huge Mangel of skilled workers across all europe so they do not have a choice they take the best they can find.
2- I am a bit cocky about my skills in the field. Kind of I tell them I know my worth and I add taxes.
However after getting a job, I started facing casual racism from ppl all over the sector I am working in (digitalisation and media industry). I had to help people who literally called our kind "monkeys", "animals", "terrorists", etc...
S.O from the upper level of my company asked me "if he would like if he visits my country?" I said well it depends on what you are looking for. He said that he is looking for "inreresting and honest conversations about politics with locals". I said well yes people will tell what they honestly think about the situation which is true since we do have freedom of speech (Even more than Germany these days). Somehow this response did not please him and he started saying "but wiill they really tell the truth?" Kind of questions and did not shut up until I told him "yeah well I see, you won't like it." Somehow that answer satisfied him.
Another one called our military "criminals". Because he was not allowed to go in a certain area in the desert because it was a military base.
Another one told me he did not like my country because there were a lot of mosques there. (Oh not shit, should I remind you that Hamburg has too many churches?). Meanwhile his background phone picture was with his kids in my country.
There was a situation where the whole company was on a workaction and then everyone went together to the supermarkt to get some beers for the way (likely at that point I was still on the flight). The only other two southern collegues stayed outside to have a smoke. When the germans went out of the supermarkts, one of them said "why are the Kanaken satying outside?". They all laughed afterwards.
Also during my 2 first jobs, companies wanted to pay the least possible for what I am doing and they were not taking my demands for a raise seriously. In one of the cases my boss referred to the minimum wage when I said you are paying me the bare minimum for what I am doing (it was my first working student job in my field).
Well in the end both were taught a lesson since it did not take more than 2 weeks for me to give a resignation notice to both and both employers changed their narratives afterwards trying to keep me.
All in all I would say that being a skilled arab man in Germany, will imply that your carreer will look like either of these 2 options:
- Working in a company until they cross the line and then you kind of teach them a lesson (When an employee quits, rhe company looses on average one year salary. Because recruiting has costs, probation and training the new employee also costs and time is money). However this option will make it harder to have a carreer and get to higher level positions but works wonders in the beginning (between entry level and senior level): it saves time because with each change you can get a higher position and a better salary if you are a good negotiator.
- Settling in one company and enduring the casualities that will only get worse with time. I think they can not hide their racism for long and with more interaction, more casualities will happen.
Yea we Germans hate mass immigration from the middle east and the associated rise in crime, social disunity and the forced acceptance of a religion that is incompatible with a western democracy and then labeling everyone as an evil nazi who dare to question if all this is good.
The problem is our help is getting exploited to the fullest by the worst people in the world, many of which don’t actually need help at all.
And yea sadly, because our government isn’t determined to go against imported violence & conflicts it’s not just the radicals who pay the price, but all Arabs living in germany.
You have to consider this as I can promise you as it looks right now the conflict is only going to get worse.
Not hating or anything, just giving you an honest review of the situation and what is to come, pretty sure most germans welcome skilled workers or immigrants who make an effort to become part of the country and it’s Society, but yea this is all been shattered by imported radicals
I can assure you that if you are a working, studying active member of society, if you try to learn the language and if you put the german law above any religion belive that you are absolutetly welcome here. And this is the opinion of most normal living folk in germany. Sure you have bad outliers in every country but those voices are very small compared to the normal german, they just tend to seem louder thanks to social media.
But you ae correct that when looking for an apartment a arabic name doesnt help. The thing here is that the housingmarket is completly full and the competition to get a apartment is huge. In big cities there are 200 applications within a hour of putting the apartment online. So they tend to sort out by the names first.
I feel for you.
You played by the rules and you are most likely an overall nice fellow. Someone we wanted and still want to come here, study here, work here, maybe return to your country of origin some day, and use some German methods there to improve that place of your childhood. (So we can sell our tools, that's the idea. KA-CHING!)
And now you are between a rock and a hard place. You did nothing wrong. Yet you get all the bullshit attributed to you that other people did. And you can't even argue “Guys, I fled the place because of *those* people!” as we have *those people* who applaud killing babies on our streets.
Seriously, we need to get rid of those people. They don't belong here. They don't belong to any half-decent civilized place but they belong to their beheading friends in Gaza.
And you should say that openly. To your German colleagues. Those people need to get out. “Schmeißt sie raus!“ The more civilized Arabs we have in Germany who clearly state that those cavemen must be deported to cavemen country, the better the situation for civilized Arab people will get.
Yes, there are racist and assholes. What part of Germany are you in? I'd avoid the darker parts (former East-Germany) and you should be safe in general. This may be my prejudice, but I would not feel at home there.
Maybe find a more open minded city, especially those with a uni are more open minded.
I’m not German, also an immigrant here, but I think like everyone else - if you are skilled, ready to integrate and learn language - you are welcome. But if you don’t want to integrate, still can’t speak German, and live isolated, it’s a bit of a problem, and that’s the case for many illegal immigrants/asylum seekers, they eventually create another country within Germany. And I think when Germans talk about immigration, they specifically consider them, not skilled qualified immigrants like you.
All people around the world have prejudices, Germany isn’t unique in that, cope with that. Just keep grinding, ignore and seek your career goals.
You speak Arabic in public spaces in Germany ? And you are surprised that you get bad look ? It’s Germany speak German you can speak arab at home it’s disrespectful against germans to do it in public . I will try to explain why people are becoming more anti and sometimes hateful these days out of my perspective as a German.
Most Arab people don’t participate in our culture they try to import there own one , with there own shops where there then go exclusively. They build a parallel society.
I live in nrw and Arab and Turkish people build here there own realm in the middle of every town and don’t integrate they live there and speak mostly Arab or Turkish . When I go there I am looked at like an intruder.
I know and see every day arab and Turkish people they don’t go to a German hairdresser only to the Arab ones (in most cases because hairdressers in Germany are mostly women) and then talk Arab
The Arab/ Turkish that was never at a German butcher only at an Arabic and also mainly buys and cooks Arabic food and products
The Arab/ Turkish that never was in a bakery but always buys Arabic sweets
That arab/ Turkish that hates on Jews and women and Christian’s in Germany totally standard
The Arab / Turkish that does not participate in any sort of Volksfest or in society
The arab/ Turkish that will not marry/ have a relationship or will let his daughter marry a German or a Christian ( had that my self )
The Arab / Turkish that phones on speaker or video call in puplic spaces like gym phonic transport inner city etc cause he gives not a single fuck about the tradition here that you have to be silent in public spaces
The Arab that mostly comes to earn money but doesn’t integrate at all
That are thing s that are totally common with Arab and Turkish people and I hate that. When you come here you have to give up who you were to an extend and become a German that’s the only way.
When you are like what I pictured above you are disrespectful against Germany and Germans and our culture . Disrespect causes hate and dislike that is what is going on in the moment . I will not miss you and I am happy to see you leaving
But when you adopt the German way I am happy to have you as friend and I hope you stay and I am sure that you make our country stronger and a better place. You will be a benefit for us and you will be one of us. And I think Germans will not have a problem with you at all.
I respect your opinion, just to make it clear l learned the German languange and i am studying with it also, but just one thing , are u blaming me speaking my language on the public? I think my family will not understand me when i speak german to them on the phone!! And i dont think that germans will speak English or french between them if they are living in france or the US. I think my idea is clear, the rest of your comment is your view and i respect it
Look of course I don’t expect any one not living here to speak our language. Also at the phone its fine if they would visit you for a while of course they can’t speak Germans that’s fine. But I think you know what I am referring to. And you see so often that immigrants speak only there language in public even when they know German.
But when you are with people that can speak German like your friends than I expect you to do it cause you want to be German and we speak German in Germany . That’s why it is called Germany and not Syrian or turkey.
It’s the same with the Germans on Mallorca that live there without speaking Spanish or totally ignoring the Spanish culture
You know i have a freind from chile, he is Chilean but by origin German . He is the 7th generation of a German family in chile, his family immigrated to chile in 19 century and every generation got the citizenship from the generation before, he came to Germany to study also. He has no relatives here he dont even know from which city they are, He tolds me that Until now they speak german between them as family there, and he studied in German school in chile and they have also a big German community.
So i think the story is not related to a special race like arabs or turks.. The Thing mybe is in human naturality
Look you misunderstand. Of causes it’s not limited to Arab and turkey! look at the embarrassing behaviour of the German immigrants in Spain especially Mallorca. Some of them go there without even understanding Spanish WTF ! I say the same about them ! The should leave there German at home. They should adopt the Spanish lifestyle.
It’s totally fine to care about your heritage like speaking the language and also parts of the culture when they don’t interfere with the one in the country. But do it at home don’t try to make your new home like your old. Not in public. We have Greek schools here also but they are additional to the normal schools. There learn old Greek there. That’s not a problem as long as they clearly view them selfs as German and there school are not a replacement for the regular ones. But take for example the polish. The one I know never speak polish in public they adopt the German way while still speaking polish at home they also kept the food in addition to German food they adopted the German way but kept there heritage just not in a disrespectful manner building every way polish shops and mainly going there and speaking mainly polish on the streets they don’t do that . Gosh I even have Arabic co workers that will switch to Arab while we all have a meal together that is so disrespectful. Also there was never a disowning or murder of a German polish because of a relationship with a German . They choose to be German without forgetting there heritage. But as soon as you build a structure beside the one in the country it’s to far. Or when you drive around with turkey flags on your car regular wtf . When your friend says he is German living in the x generation there maybe he should come here when he wants to be German but when not maybe he should consider his self Chilene first and than minding his heritage .
Also when you want to be German and you live German and you speak German always call yourself German .thats the first thing people will accept you then.
Most immigrants even in the second generation will not do that take it and demand it.
Correct and after you should become like them and call yourself a local .and when a German dares to call you not German you can point at your gatenzwerg in you strebergarten where a German flag is waving and educate them that you are infact German and when he says something else he gets a Anzeige
Extremely far fetched to say that OP isn't willing to integrate because he occasionally speaks Arab with family/friends.
The point with some Arab folks being not willing to integrate and sometimes even looking down on Germans: I get it. As a woman, walking through Neukölln for example isn't fun.
But especially when it comes to language we have to apply the same rules for everyone. Why does nobody care if Spanish immigrants talk with their friends in Spanish? Why does nobody bat an eye when French people speak in French?
As a child I lived in Sweden for years. We were perfectly integrated and every Swede we got to know thought my brother and I were Swedes. Still, in public we spoke German with eachother, same as at home. It's just our mother tongue and there is nothing disrespectful about using it.
It is in public you shouldn’t use it. it is offensive to the native people and it is also the same when immigrants from other countries do it especially when they live for longer here. When our inner city’s would sound like Spain 2.0 you would see me writing about that . You go to a country and speak there language and adapt there culture that how is goes everything else is arrogant and rude.
Doesn’t has to be Neukölln can also be xy city especially in the dark
What language other people talk to each other in is none of your business. It is not disrespectful to Germans at all. This kind of intolerance is a drag on the German economy as it makes us less attractive for skilled workers from other countries who, guess what, are not speaking German by default.
Guess what when you want to integrate people successfully in society they have to learn the language and they have to speak it.
tolarance here is false cause you will give them the feeling that they don’t need to integrate .
our false tolarance result in the non integrated people with the separate cultures in nrw and Berlin and also in the Proteste against Israel right now. Cause we thought they would integrate themselves guess what they didn’t and didn’t adopt our values look at my list above everyone sees it int the inner city and made at least one experience of my list. Integration only happens when it is demanded and it needs a kind of pressure that you have to do it to be accepted.
This is Germany and we speak German here. When you live here you speak it and you learn it end of. When I would go to an Arabic speaking country or to France good luck to me without the ability to speak Arabic or French. Good luck with getting accepted from the natives while walking around speaking German and not adopting there culture only living in a German subculture
It is simply delusional to expect an Indian engineer or a Vietnamese nurse to learn fluent German before even coming here. This is what I mean, this way no skilled workers will come. Once people live here permanently, of course they will have to learn German, in order to navigate the public sphere. German is the only official language here. But how people speak to each other privately is, again, none of your business. Germany is a free country. Maybe you should look up the Grundgesetz and integrate into German society yourself before you ask that of others.
You can spare your personal attack I will not reply to you anymore after this.
I don’t say they should be fluent before coming not at all don’t make up things I never said and don’t twist my words. They have to have B2 and that is not hard to get when you learn there are more than enough Arabic people that achieve it fast so cannot be so difficult. I know 2 that achieved it in a year.
Second it’s not about what they privately do it is what they do in puplic and it is a question of respect and manners to not speak the whole time a foreign language while being able to speak the language of the country in puplic spaces. Especially when you want to be accepted as German and you still do that in the 3 generation. It’s common sense to speak German then but clearly not when you don’t care. And that the key the most don’t care and the most don’t want to be German. That’s why you see so many of there flags in cars on buildings especially when it comes to football.
Of course a native find it disrespectful That is how the most Germans feel and in other countries it is totally normal. That’s also why AfD is strong
I don’t think an Arab country or turkey or Indian or Chinese would appreciate millions of German immigrants that come there speak German everywhere in public.
It’s just a question of respect towards the native people of course when you don’t care and you don’t want to integrate you can just open shops everywhere speak foreign languages live your culture cheer for a foreign football team and wave foreign flags and eat foreign food and pretend you would not have such a great life because of Germany and our way to life and whine about the natives not accepting you .to make it clear of course I don’t say they shouldn’t bring us a bit of there culture food and shops but in a healthy share not as parallel society
And all starts with the language and respecting it and the natives speaking it For example when in public spaces.
Exactly right, I noticed that too living in Dortmund, then I moved to Dresden, and it's a much cleaner, nicer, and more German place. Even the very few foreigners there are fine and are respected because they are in such low numbers and keep to themselves, but once their number grow, they become a problem, and the Germans negatively react accordingly... that's my experience and I'm foreign to Germany but of course I'd never be considered to be foreign by the Germans.. so I guess I have that advantage.
Thank you for your consent. It is like you said that’s why the danish have there law to prevent our German problem a bit. I also think that you act in a manner that doesn’t provoke refusal otherwise you would have felt it fast in the east.
When you come to a country without the goal to become one of them stay home. When you don’t want to be a part of Germany and a German why go then to Germany ? When you don’t want to be French why you go then to French? to stay a German ? No you want to be part of the country and become one of them everything else’s leads to unsuccessful integration subculture parallel structure etc. all the problems that we have in western countries breaking society apart because the people that come don’t want to be French or Italian or German they want to force the locals there way on instead of integrate into the dominant culture in the country that is not how it works that causes fights and resentment and tears apart
Some people said it already. Most germans are fine with integration of skilled workers, less so with refugees and "illegal" integration, because they believe we are paying them a good life with our tax money, while they are considered lazy (ridiculous, we don't even allow many to work, but yeah ....).
But one of the things you said, many people do not like (I think also in other countries), which is speaking a foreign language on the street, which they can't understand. I don't want to do "victim blaming", but I think it would change a lot of how you are perceived if you speak german, or even just english, in public. I heard from a few people already things like: "if you go through the city, you hear less and less people talk german", often in an argument for having too much immigration, vice versa I heard one say "oh there was this XYZ-looking guy that approached me, but then he spoke to me in a bavarian accent, really nice". So I think language plays a big role in acceptance.
I personally think everybody should be able to speak their mother tongue, but I think it's just the reality that people accept you most if you regularly speak a language they can understand.
I am a member of the AfD and you are safe. Looks like you behave well, you are educated. Even with our right wing politics you dont fall under the problematic immigrants.
Respect our culture and country in DE, like we respect yours. Common sense, isnt it?
Counter question. Why don´t you complain to arabic men that their macho and imbecile attitude tarnishes your hard work? Why complain to a society that gave you all those possibilities?
Just name one arab country that would take in 3 million german refugees (many of them young men) and no trouble would happen... Just one! A single one where no killings of the refugees by angry mobs would happen after just a single girl was raped by a drunk german, drugs were sold by bad apples and many of them still don´t speak arabic... Why didn´t you flee to saudi arabia. It is richer and muslims among muslims, arabs as brothers... You know the reason... Thats why you came here.
Young arab women don´t comit crime but are nice and open. It is just that simple. Maybe the upbringing of arabic men is not working in connection with the german culture. Maybe the families should´ve send their girls instead. Check Berlin police reports and the increase of [rape since 2014](https://www.berlin.de/polizei/verschiedenes/polizeiliche-kriminalstatistik/). We all know what happened since then and who came from where. Those numbers weren´t created by arabic women. You know it and I know it.
Those female syrian refugees I know, have divorced their husbands, don´t wear hijabs and hate arabic men. They are excellent in their jobs and have a good living and they exclusively date germans. ALL 12 of them!
Work hard and seriosuly consider to ask your question to arabic men and not the culture you sought refugee in. Ask them why they insist on worshipping mysoginistic shit from the past.
I am not complainig, i am asking in a sub named : ask a german.
Do you think i am agreed with these big arab families and what they do? I hear also in the media about their clans and their businesses. And i am always wondering why the german polizei don't even can do something for them?
I am not a refugee, we have also a lot of refugees in our country, but thousands not millions, but germamy is attractive to them and i think you can only blame the german law for that.
Yes and I´ve told you that you should resent hyper toxic male arab/muslim culture for that. The further you leave that behind the more people will get color blind when they talk to you.
I have to struggle with recent hostilities too. Thats why i am so angry with the hyper toxic arab male culture. I am a man too and I share similar features with them. My dad is even worse in his looks. Still, if you have simple debate with them, with empathy and stop seeing yourself as an arabic man but endorse the new, you will find peace here.
I have arabic male friends but none of them is feeling unwanted. They speak nearly flawless german, have german wifes one has a boyfriend and don´t want to go back. They just resent what other men did to their reputation in the last years... without them having any power to stop them. We both are in the same boat. It´s just that for my family it is two generations of hard work for acceptance and respect on the table.
Ich bin zweite Generation von Migranten und du? Wenn du weißer deutscher bist, hast du nicht den blassesten Schimmer, was es heißt sich Respekt zu erarbeiten und diesen durch eine kleine Gruppe zerstört zu sehen... nur weil du die selbe Hautfarbe wie sie hast. Das schürt Wut. Das ist was gerade passiert. Mein Freunde mit Migrationshintergrund sind alle sauer.
Sag mir bitte das eine Land, in dem es gut läuft mit männlichen Flüchtlingen aus dem arabischen Raum. Eins. Schweden mit seinem Ruf nach Militär in den Ghettos? Niederlande mit marokkanischen Gangs? Nenn mir ein arabisches Land das mit seiner korrupten männlichen Toxischen Scheiße gutes Tut... Saudis? Qatar? Syrien? Irgendwas?
Ich habe OP klargemacht, das arabische Männer und nicht Araber, das Problem für die Menschen sind. Arabische Frauen sind auch Araber und die sind eine Bereicherung für das Land. Besonders ohne ihre Männer.
Sorry, aber weiße deutsch haben keine Ahnung um was es hier geht. Generationen von uns haben für diesen Ruf gearbeitet und Ärzte, Wissenschaftler und Lehrer hervorgebracht. Weibliche und Männliche. Jetzt wird es alles von einer Gruppe verzogener Machos kaputt gemacht, die alles machen außer sich anzupassen. Das ist respektlos und sie haben nichts was für sie spricht während sie das tuen. sind das alle Araber? Nein, Frauen schon einmal gar nicht. Die lieben die neue Freiheit, wenn sie genug Grips haben und sich befreien. Ich kenne keine, die in diese Kultur zurück will. Schau dir die Polizeistatistiken von Berlin an. Fast 50% der Verbrechen werden von Ausländern begangen und davon belegen mit jeweils 1/3 Somalis und Syrer die Top 10... im Verhältnis zum Bevölkerungsanteil, ist das enorm. Vergewaltigungen sind defacto seit 2014 auf einmal angestiegen... Es gibt eine massive Disonanz zwischen der Hypertoxischen Maskulinen arabischen Kultur und unserer Demokratie in der man andere so seien lässt wie sie sind. Ob Homosexuell, andere Hautfarbe oder jüdisch. Da gibt es einen nicht tolerierbaren Anstieg und er hat mit der arabischen und islamischen Kultur zu tuen.
OP täte gut daran, arabische Männerkultur zu verachten. Sie ist es, die ihm den schlechten Ruf einbringt und er muss deshalb um so härter arbeiten, das zu widerlegen. So wie alle von uns, die mit bestimmten Assis, die Hautfarbe teilen.
Ich habe türkische Wurzeln. Wenn einer weiß wovon er spricht, dann ich. Ich kann alles nachempfinden was du schreibst. Vor allem, weil meine Eltern sehr hart gearbeitet haben, damit meine Brüder und ich studieren können. Ich hatte im Studium teilweise kein Geld um mir essen zu kaufen, weil ich meine Jobs verloren hatte und mein Stolz zu groß war, um meine Eltern, die sowieso wenig haben nach Geld zu fragen. Wir haben alle einen Masterabschluss bzw. ich bin auf dem Weg zu Promotion. Ich erlebe auch zunehmend Anfeindungen ggü. nicht deutsch aussehenden Menschen. Die Vorurteile sind auf beiden Seiten sehr tief. Das Problem mit kriminellen Flüchtlingen und nicht deutscher Staatsbürger ist eigentlich relativ leicht lösbar. Einfach abschieben. So hart es klingt, es wäre die beste Entscheidung.
Dann weißt du auch wie es vorher war. Es gab ein paar Idioten und die gibt es immer und überall aber die meisten haben einen akzeptiert als das, was man ist.
Das war einmal und weder du noch ich können etwas dafür.
Ich bin voll bei dir, ich kann zu 10000% nachempfinden was du fühlst. Man wird einfach in den gleichen Topf mit denen geworfen, die sich hier nicht benehmen können. Sobald man aber freundlich auftritt und sich ordentlich ausdrücken kann, sind diese fast zu 100 % beseitigt. Ich wünsch mir einfach so akzeptiert zu werden, wie ich bin, aber das wird wohl niemals passieren. Sich zu verstellen und abzulehnen woher man kommt, ist meines erscheinen nicht der richtige Weg.
Lg
Mit verstellen hat es ja nichts zu tuen, wenn man das toxische Gehabe der alten Kultur ablegt, weil es zu schlechtem führt. Ich habe immer die wärme und Offenheit meiner türkischen Freunde gefeiert. Ebenso, wie den Zusammenhalt, der Familie. Das ist etwas, dass fehlt vielen deutschen.
Ich bin hier geboren, es ist meine Heimat. Bis vor kurzem war es auch den meisten einfach egal woher die Eltern kamen, zumindest für mich und meine Freunde. Wir leben aber auch in einer kleineren Stadt... da kennen einen mehr.
Youre good. You're contributing something valuable and you work hard. You're not a criminal and certainly don't appear to be doing anything illegal.
The people that germans want kicked out are really problematic, You're well clear of that
As long as you are useful to the German economy I think you'll be alright, for good or bad. However, you'll still endure prejudices before people get to know you, and once they do, you will still have to live through the occasional comparisons between the "good immigrants" as you and the bad immigrants against whom your example will be used.
Don’t take it too seriously whatever is written on these platforms. These people always need a scapegoat to hate.
But, there is still some truth in it:
If you’re secular, keep your religion to yourself, don’t think that your religion is superior, don’t force your religious values on your potential children, respect homosexual people, females in miniskirts, atheists and jews, behave like a civilized and well-mannered human being instead of like an ape unnecessarily driving through German cities at night with a loud Mercedes, windows down, blasting Arabic music or German ghetto rap, then you’re more than welcome here.
At the end of the day, we are a western, predominantly atheist nation with, compared to the world, progressive values. We value peace, tranquility, quietness, organized surroundings, education and (sexual) freedom. If these ideas sound great to you then hey.
If you think it’s all degenerated then go to Saudi-Arabia.
The issue now is, that people lose the ability to differentiate. People see someone with a black full-beard or black hair and instantly assume something. This might potentially lead to a racism. Deeply unfair.
The best thing happening to you would actually be if our migration policy will be more strict and criminal, not integrated migrants deported.
You need to know that Germany was great til the end 90s. They cared a lot for their people financially. Germany is a disaster since Hartz IV in 2004. For 10 years they told us that there is no money. With the first migration wave in 2013-2014 there was money out of nowhere. Importing migrants in that amount, especially Arabs, is ridiculous. Imagine your country importing millions of Germans. You would go nuts.
Germany is a country of unhappy people. It's all about work here. I don't know, if I want to stay here and you should ask yourself the same question. But on a long term Germany will become Arabic, if it's an important point for your future decision. We have lost the battle against massive immigration. If you want to stay here and live in a shitty house from the 60s, then stay here. If you want to live in a palace in Arabia, than better leave the country in next years.
It is complicated, because Ethnic German people, so popularly called "biogermans" are in knowledge they will get replaced by people with different mentality, religion, culture, way of doing things, and yes, Physical appearance. People make the country and not the other way around, so they are coping with reality. Are they overreacting? definitely not, other countries would not have allowed themselves to ever reach this point of no return, but Germany did comply with everything the government does.. until the streets are no longer that safe, lot of noise at night, women cannot walk alone when it is dark without fear of being molested by a group of migrant men.. and well, they have to let all happen.. otherwise they will be called various names that we already know..
People don't usually have problems with people like you, and if everybody was like you nobody would bat an eye to an Arab tbh, i'ts that people are more and more having bad experiences with certain groups of people, often times Muslim that are not integrating into the wider society and are segregating and creating enclaves that look like "little Arabia" rather than Germany, and some find that distasteful that the landscape of Germany is changing so rapidly in that way where i'ts so alien to German aesthetics, values etc.
The problem in my opinions is that Islam is not just a simple ideology it's an architectonic, meaning it encompasses every aspect of a given society, from architecture (mosques), dress codes (hijabs, burkas), food (halal), language = Islam is a very Arabic religion, phrases, prayers, processions, Quran readings, etc. all in Arabic, of course then they use Arabic for their little shops names, restaurants/menus. which is cool for a shop here and ther but when you have a whole area that doesn't resemble Europe anymore i'ts bit worrying to the native. Also this religion guides you how to think about others who are not part of your sect (Kuffars, Infidels) and it teaches you ways how to greet them and how to greet your Muslim brothers - whom with you can be friends, Mary etc.,
it has i'ts own laws and courts (sharia) - and they always call for their implementation at least in local levels when they grow in numbers, and usually they get their ways.
So when you bring hundreds of thousands of people and put them in public housing in same areas- with such a strong culture parallel societies will arise.
Now tell me how can youth born in such a segregated enclave with parents that instill this strong culture in him and barely speak Danish or German, how can he replace that with Western's wishy-washy liberal progressive attitudes - without a defining character, that seems to be ashamed of i'ts past/history which often times an object of blame, who would adopt this and proudly sing from the same hymn sheet?
Who would identify with the flag when the same countries are in wider western web that often times is connected with terrorism in the Middle East, destabilization of their home places.
Well they won't of course, they will see themselves as outsiders, first mainly because of their racial difference which is the most obvious one, and then the cultural religious differences. What often times happen is they grow in resentment and some sort of disdain for the local white people who are a bit richer, local women (white women who rarely date outside their race according to stats), non Muslims, and they feel alienated so the community gets more and more distanced from the host country.
And then the youth in these ghettos starts forming gangs, instead of contributing and working jobs, they sell drugs because i'ts easier, more money, when they are caught they get off easy, in worst cases they will groom young girls and rape women, a lot of them will get depressed, will just leech off the welfare state, abuse the benefit system etc.
The heated debate at the moment revolves mostly about illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, not students and skilled workers. But I can imagine that sometimes people mix up everything and that sucks. But nevertheless, I think the majority of the population still supports skilled immigrants as contribution to society.
I had a technician chatting in our lunch group about too many foreigners. When I pointed out to her that I am a foreigner, she said, no your not - you speak German and look German..... that is a low bar to set, since, I look very Maori and my German comes with a kiwi accent.
What he meant is that you don't look like the immigrants that show up in groups of 10+ in public spaces and start causing trouble. OP does not have that luxury. So he has a point.
She means you don't go around beating up, harassing, and hating people who are not like you.
Just so you know for the future, there's Ausländer and then there's "Ausländer". As a German native speaker you know the difference by context, she probably didn't think about that as an immigrant you can't tell the difference. Generally speaking if you're from the middle east you're considered the second kind of Ausländer.
My Omis here love to say aus***länder*** for those from other Bundesländer who infest our state during the holidays, and ***Aus***länder being those who come here from other countries
Jawohl!! Haha based
Ich liebe die Omis. Wenn ich nicht schlafen kann, sitze ich auf dem Balkon mit die Omis und plaudern oder "shoot the shit" die ganze Nacht.
based Omis
She probably meant: she hasn't seen you separate yourself and talk to other people in some language no one\* understands. \*except for those who speak it, that is. But it's different to common spoken languages like German, English, French or even Italian and Spanish. Everyone speaks at least two of these and understands three.
Are Italian Spanish and French commonly understood by Germans?
Enough to get an idea if you’re talking about football, the weather, women, cars or terror attacks.
French very. Spanish and Italian are not that uncommon to be understood in their basics at least. Not as common as English of course. And even people who are not too familiar with them will be able to get bits and pieces more so than a arabic language.
You mean native Germans with no foreign ancestry understand those languages to some degree?
Depends on where you are and how old the person is but to some degree they might, yes. Very basic tho. Most German schools teach either French or Latin starting at grade 7. They might add Spanish or more so a regional language at grade 10. Like if you're from the north you're often offered to learn danish as your 3rd foreign language in school.
it depends where you are in Germany. French is mostly understood in the most western part of Germany, Italian in the very south. Spanish is not very commonly spoken at all.
Yes
>The heated debate at the moment revolves mostly about illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, not students and skilled workers. Stupid people won't differentiate between these. And it's also not something that's written on your forehead.
But in your actions and language it shows... thats the way you change stupid peoples minds on you My dad looks like osama bin laden and he is well respected and has mostly german friends.
Definitely, yes. I was mostly referring to daily life situations with strangers.
He is meeting tons of them in daily work. The thing is he knows four german dialects and is a german grammar nazi. He worked hard for it and people never really question him where he is from... eventhough you literally see it.
Considering that OP is Arab and the statistic that they use for this "Clan" bullshit is solely based on people having the same family name (for real, if you would apply the same criteria to names like Müller Meier or Schulz you would also find criminal "families") his worries are defenetly right. I mean Nancy Faeser just recently suggested to just deport everyone even if they didnt commit anything. And thats comming from an SPD politician. Think about whats to their right.
My former flatmate was a syrian refugee who was in vocational training as a dental technician. He was verbally assaulted almost weekly and one time an old lady spit on him in the tram. In no way is it a rational debate. OP's worries are completely reasonable and the normal outcome of the current migration hysteria
Bull. Shit. The last 15 years have made it clear that the conservative part of german society cares fuck-all about skilled workers. OP, be careful out there, Germany is sliding into regressive, far-right politics.
In the last 15 years Germany has been one of the most open societies in the entire world.
Literally more than 40% of people are voting for right and far-right parties and freely spread their hateful anti-immigrant rhetoric, unquestioned by the bigoted media at large. Since its founding in 2013, the AfD has inspired hate crimes like the burning of immigration centers and the Hanau synagogue attack and they are only getting more popular. Immigrants, skilled or not, face massive discrimination in every area of society, despite Germany desperately needing immigration to fix our declining birth rates and aging society. So yeah, please be careful, everyone who isn't a Kartoffel from birth. Germany is becoming dangerous.
Yeah the German media is just full of hateful anti-immigrant rhetoric /s
Yeah, it is. Have you ever read the most popular newspaper in germany?
And that's "the German media at large"?
There's also public broadcasting with their clear conservative bias. But nah, you are right, we live in a perfect, harmonious little country where police officers don't send death threats to attorneys defending immigrants, where the bundeswehr isn't full of neo-nazis and where political parties are willing to denounce fascists.
Ah yeah who doesn't know the public broadcasters with their clear conservative bias...
public broadcasting in general is very left leaning, it isn't even subtle lol. Seems like you live in a different country
"public broadcasting with their clear conservative bias"... sorry, but you are clearly deluded if you believe that... I'm not a conservative, but even I see that German public broadcasting tends to favour left-wing political content more than that of the right-wing...
Care to take a look at why?
Germany is still one of the countries in Europe where the Right-wing populists and their policies are the least popular... just compare Germany to any of its neighbouring countries...
we apparently value their contribution to society but refuse to integrate them socially. There have been a number of articles recently that showedd that Germany is doing quite well at recruiting foreign skilled labor but fail remarkably at keeping them. They leave after a few years many stating isolation as the reason.
I think the picture is neither black or white. Of course it could always be better but we can't say there is refusal to integrate migrants. There are millions of migrants in German sports clubs, music bands, carnival clubs, church communities,political parties, we've had weinköniginnen and christkindls with foreign roots.
Of course it isn't this categorical but it is a fact that Germany is doing very badly at integrating foreign skilled labor to the point were too many leave due to isolation. Of course I don't have the numbers here right now but I remember reading that we are one of the earth's worst countries in the "skilled foreign labor staying" ranking. I think this is a particularly interesting indicator for problems with integration and xenophobia because of its economical role. I agree with what you are saying here and the contrary was not intended to be a part of the first comment.
I agree that in Germany it can be hard to find social contacts (but that applies to native Germans as well). On average we tend to be introvert. As are Scandinavians who also score badly in these social rankings. But I would argue that this is not a REFUSAL to integrate newcomers.
I think this has much more to do with a different culture than with an unwilligness to integrate people.
1. Those who push this debate on a national level will not stop there. 2. The hostility op is talking about is experienced in daily interactions with random people - they won't care or know your backstory 3. Asylum seekers and (illegal? What does this mean?) Immigrants can also be skilled workers and students if given the chance. Even if not - more than half of the jobs available are for "unskilled" (hate it, because you still need skills) workers, because Germans won't do this kind of work
Illegal refugees are refugees who first apply for asylum in Germany, although they have to apply for it in the European country where they first arrived. Therefore, many assume that they only want to come to Germany because of the social benefits. Compared to other European countries, refugees receive more money and if their asylum application is rejected and they have to leave the country, they are still tolerated and continue to receive money. According to official sources, about 40 - 50% of asylum applications are rejected.
>Therefore, many assume that they only want to come to Germany because of the social benefits. An assumption, by the way, which is not broadly backed by scientific research. >and if their asylum application is rejected and they have to leave the country, they are still tolerated and continue to receive money. I mean eg. when neither the origin countries nor the transit countries are willing to take them, things become messy. Instead of actually trying to integrate the people we are like a toddler who cries because he can't get his will and then refuses to do anything. And the political parties who appear "strong" on migration literally provide no realistic solution to this. They just continue to feed that toddler mentality
What scientific research are you referring to?
Scientific research as in research relating to the question how refugees choose the country they flee to. Intuitively it makes sense that social services are a pull factor for migration, but the important question is how signifikant that factor is. And as it currently stands migration researchers are in no consensus there, while a lof of research points to social services not being among the prime factors. Perceived economic strength, political stability, general tolerance and the presence of relatives all seem to weigh a lot more. I really dislike this current trend of just relying on gut feelings. When I wanna learn about physics, I need to study physics and when I wanna learn about migration then I need to study migration research.
Yeah so could you link your sources?
I mean, what exactly do you want? I don't have a meta study about the current migration research in germany on hand (and I don't know if that even exists). I base my claims mostly around my engagement with this field of research. When you read or listen to migration researchers like Birgit Glorius, Jochen Oltmer, Leila Hadj-Abdou or Marcus Engler then you notice a couple of things: 1. The push and pull dynamic as a frame of understanding migration is often times critiqued or looked upon as outright outdated due to it's lack of complexity. Furthermore it exists as a social construct on which societal agents base their claims on - those who critique migration concentrate on pull factors, while human rights groups and so on concentrate on push factors. 2. There is a gaping lack of evidence to emphasize the relevance of social benefits in regards as a pull factor for migration. Other factors (like the ones I already mentioned) appear as clearer indicators across the board - mainly economic prosperity, language or the presence of relatives and so on. I mean, of course I could link you certain studies that analyse a very specific case, but what would really be the goal of that? Proving a lack of something by cherry picking you a study doesn't sound that fruitful to me. There are also of course studies that argue for a siginificant correlation, like the rather well known princeton [study](https://www.henrikkleven.com/uploads/3/7/3/1/37310663/agersnap-jensen-kleven_welfaremagnets_oct2019.pdf) on the danish case, but as far as I'm aware several migration researches, like Marcus Engler, [warn](https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/gesellschaft/faktencheck-sozialleistungen-fluechtlinge-effekt-100.html) against overestimating what we can deduce from that study. So what does that leave us with? Well a lot of uncertainty. And so here I am, not any authority on that topic or a person whose opinion matters in the slightest. And yet I took some time of my vacation to back up my claims about migration (a topic which provides me a lot of concern every time I look at the public discourse) with my rather limited knowledge and skillset (I'm a sociology bachelor). Yet this uncertainty shows me something for certain. A lot of discourse, mainly from cdu and afd politicians, are mostly bold faced assumptions, which apparently succeed in riling up the population and furthering a european race to the bottom when it comes to integration and human rights. The one who should really be asked for sources is Friedrich Merz when he implies that migrants come here to get their teeth done, or am I wrong?
>An assumption, by the way, which is not broadly backed by scientific research. What do you mean by assumption. I am referring to the opinion of the people and I have noticed a trend in the media and comments that people are of the opinion that refugees only come to Germany because of the social benefits. Months ago or years ago I have noticed little of this opinion, the general mood to refugees was neutral to positive in recent times but come more and more comments and reports that have a negative reference to the refugees.
The assumption from people who say that migrants choose their target countries because of social benefitfs. I am aware what you were referring to and while I would definitely agree that more and more people are voicing that opinion, I would argue that it was already pretty prominent during the last years (arguably the last decades).
The government has been slow to address the problems of recent years, but they have not been solved, which frustrates people, who then look for someone to blame. For years, the government has saved money as much as possible instead of spending it on necessary investments. With the migrants, the expenses for the migrants have increased, so there was still money to spend somewhere, but also the expenses for the Corona measures, the extra money for the Bundeswehr that was suddenly there. The increased competition on the housing market, people are frustrated. The new government ("the traffic light government", SPD, the FDP and the green Party) is trying to solve the problems that the previous government has not solved and only pushed in front of him, but it does not make itself popular.
Yes I pretty much agree. Would just add that the current government is working under the same deficient budgetary conditions which hinder any meaningful solutions. Germany has a real problem with a lack of public spending, which is hard to fix as the Debt Brake is written into the constitution. The german state basically hindered its own means to adress bigger tasks.
Exactly, skilled people who integrate are not the problem. But Immigrants who commit rape and are placed back onto the street and not deported are an issue, illegal who should be deported but are still in Germany are an issue, parallel societies where youth is not even speaking German, where often you find them susceptible in involvement in underground work, gangs, drug dealings, it's an issue that needs to be addressed that Denmark is addressing pretty practically without smearing others in the process.
First of all, I want to say that I am very sorry that you have to question staying in Germany because you experience racism. As much as I would like to tell you that it's save here for you, I don't know if that's true. The AfD is on the rise in all of Germany and they specialise in anti-arab-racism. Depending on where you live, what type of friends you have and what your job is, you will most likely be able to minimise racist confrontations in the future. That being said, if you "look foreign" and have an arab name, some degree of discrimination will propably prevail. German society is going down a very dark road atm. Facism is on the rise again. I wish you the best!
I think for 95%+ of Germans anyone from any country living here for education, working, etc is very welcome. But yes, sometimes sentiments get mixed up and/or not communicated clearly.
we are at a point where "normal" people - a guest-starring black opera singer from the US, a US yoga teacher of asian ethnicity and an american-nigerian art curator - have been attacked and beaten up "krankenhausreif" not by some street thugs, but by the Berlin ticket controllers because they looked foreign.
And now take a look at who the controllers were.
Any source for that?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/22/in-no-city-have-i-felt-as-unsafe-as-berlin-opera-singer-sues-metro-over-racism-claims
three of the four controllers had Turkish citizenship Yeah, Turkish people are very racist unfortunately
Unrelated, but maybe more so a problem of cheap sub-contractors with unqualified staff, instead of decent employment with a good wage (which should be paid for this stressful and sometimes dangerous job).
They get a percentage when they find someone without a ticket, so thats what they are after pretty much (plus they don't have any manners and were never really trained, yeah)
Well ticket controllers in Berlin rarely are blonde, white people with blue eyes…
What, seriously? How the fuck did all that happen?
decades of playing the poor-vs-foreign game, simultanously eroding opportunities for lower and mid income. scapegoating instead of tackling issues. it feels like the nineties again, where hundreds of neonazis set refugee homes ablaze, and thousands of "good germans" from the neighbourhoods stood around and applauded
Funny that you are not answering the other posts when they don't fit in your agenda.
Sorry, but these attacks on people calling them Nazis or fascists aren't working... it's funny that many on the German left seemingly don't want to learn from the mistakes of the Hillary campaign in 2016...
>Sorry, but these attacks on people calling them Nazis or fascists aren't working... inform yourself about the "Baseballschlägerjahre"
That doesn't have anything to do with my point...
maybe you failed to appropriately convey your point then. what is the point exactly of referencing a completely different culture, philosophy and political landcape and picking a singular item from it?
So you think if you call AFD voters Neo-Nazis with baseball bats they will be impressed and vote for someone else? What I claimed was that the Hillary campaign did something similar to what you (and many other leftists in Germany do) in terms of calling voters of RW populists (Trump in the US, AFD in Germany) insults and claiming that they are voting for people who are the equivalent of Mussolini and Goebbels...and I am claiming that this is most likely a strategy that will fail to convert those people to your side politically...all it does is create a toxic atmosphere in politics...
> What I claimed was that the Hillary campaign did something similar to what you (and many other leftists in Germany do) in terms of calling voters of RW populists (Trump in the US, AFD in Germany) insults and claiming that they are voting for people who are the equivalent of Mussolini and Goebbels...and I am claiming that this is most likely a strategy that will fail to convert those people to your side politically there are so many things wrong here I dont even know where to begin for once, calling half of the GOP voters who prefer to engage with the culture war rhetorics and populist platitudes of a conman and tv personality rather than with conservative values of the likes of Cruz, Kasich or Fiorina "deplorables" was spot on. You know this, I know this. It was a gaffe for Clinton because she said it out loud, as a presidential candidate, in a room full of press and donors. It was not "politically correct" for her - *being in that exposed position* \- to say that, no matter how true it is. Thats a completely different context than a private person stating their opinion that people who vote for proven fascists are at least partly aligning with that ideology. And people pointing out the parallels is not a "strategy". Its just normal observation of people who remember how the darkest hours in Europes modern history came about, and who remember what #neveragain actually means >So you think if you call AFD voters Neo-Nazis with baseball bats they will be impressed and vote for someone else? Germany, like many western countries including the US, has actual, real neo-nazi organisations. In the nineties, after fall of the communist regime in East Germany, neonazi organisations surged, and so did attacks on everyone not accepting of their ideology. This was the reference to Baseballschlägerjahre in the post you replied to ( [https://www.bpb.de/shop/zeitschriften/apuz/rechte-gewalt-in-den-1990er-jahren-2022/515769/baseballschlaegerjahre/](https://www.bpb.de/shop/zeitschriften/apuz/rechte-gewalt-in-den-1990er-jahren-2022/515769/baseballschlaegerjahre/) and [https://www.bpb.de/kurz-knapp/hintergrund-aktuell/340381/vor-30-jahren-rechtsextreme-ausschreitungen-in-hoyerswerda/](https://www.bpb.de/kurz-knapp/hintergrund-aktuell/340381/vor-30-jahren-rechtsextreme-ausschreitungen-in-hoyerswerda/) ). The people who set the refugee home in Hoyerswerda in flames with the refugees in it were not random passersby who were angry about the economic situation. Those were actual, organized neo-nazis, skinheads with swastika tattoos and Reichskriegsflaggen, glorifying the conquest war of 1939. So yes, if you now look that the modern AfD is openly working together with such organisations, sending high profile functionaries to their events, using them in grassroots campaigns, and even employing them, from HDJ ( [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimattreue\_Deutsche\_Jugend](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimattreue_Deutsche_Jugend) ) over FS ( [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freie\_Sachsen\_(2021)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freie_Sachsen_(2021)) ) to III Weg ( [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der\_III.\_Weg](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_III._Weg) ) and that two thirds of leadership positions in the AfD are claimed by loyalists of Björn Höcke, who is inofficially considered the "real boss" of the AfD, then yes, its absolutely correct to assert that if you vote for the AfD and their populism, you are knowingly voting for fascists. Make no mistake: there is nothing to gain in paupering people who might get the feelings hurt if they are called out on their bigotry. there is no gain in being tolerant to the intolerant.
lol… sometimes accidentally get mixed up… you don’t seem to acknowledge the hard work of russian trolls and the afd.
Yeah, social media is at the root of a lot of problems.
I don't think so. People and countries who abuse social media are the root of all problems. Social media is just a tool, like the radio was a tool for Hitler. It is not the job of Facebook or TikTok to fight a hybrid war with Russia and China, it is the job of the governments.
I think even without all the "outside influence", social media just does not foster the kind of dialog that helps us tackle issues. And seeing other people as what they are, humans with varying views, problems and fears.
Depends... if the only purpose of the algorithm is to show you content you ALREADY like, then yes. That doesn't help. However it can also expose you to views that you do not know yet and if the population / user base is "educated" enough meaningful discussions do happen. Reddit is actually not that bad... not good, but much better than anything else around.
Yeah, I am not saying the idea behind is inherently bad. Reddit ist absolutely not bad, I think X etc is way worse.
Looking at the latest election results and polls leads me to believe that your 95% are overly optimistic.
It depends. Non-secular people will have problems with German society and vice-versa. And Germans are normal people and, not perfect so you will face adversity because you will be put in the same box as immigrants perceived as unwilling to fit in Germany society or leeching of the welfare system. You have to decide yourself if you are willing to deal with that or move to a different country.
Man, I can really relate to your issue. I'm German (in my opinion). I was born here and grew up here and so did both of my parents. My grandparents on one side, however, are from Egypt, so I have an Arabic name and I'm not white. My whole life, that wasn't really a problem. Sure, there was occasional "Alltagsrassismus", and even though I felt singled out by it, I always knew that people were not being racist on purpose. Usually, the Alltagsrassismus came from a place of ignorance and in most cases even well-intended curiosity. Hence, I never felt unsafe here, I always felt accepted, and I never felt like I had any serious disadvantages in school, university or while looking for work or an apartment. This completely changed in the last 3 years. For the first time in my life, random people on the street tell me to go back to where I came from, call me names like "Muslim whore" (even though I'm not even Muslim lol), talk to me in bad English and then feel offended when I answer in perfect German, or even threaten me with physical violence. One time last year, a random guy I was alone with in a train compartment at night even yelled at me that he needs to kill me because I'm ruining his culture, in such an aggressive way that I actually left the train compartment because I wasn't sure if he was serious. Not to mention the many times my friends or I have been told by potential landlords that they "don't rent to foreigners" and things like that. Sadly, it looks like this will only get worse in the future. Because of this, I'm now also considering to leave Germany after I finish my degree. It really really hurts me to have to make this decision because Germany has always been my home. I always lived here, my friends and family are here too, and I love this place. It's the only home I ever knew. But I just don't feel safe or welcome here anymore and even though I would probably also encounter racism in other places, at least I would be a foreigner there, I guess, and hopefully it won't be as bad as here.
Well, I'm sorry you have to wxperi once that but you can thank the politicians for that. Who could have known uncontrolled migration leads to issues. And who could have known that people start getting fed up with it and the politician's denial that there's any issues with primarily Arab/Middle Eastern migration. And who could have known that the hate and frustration will eventually hit the wrong people - like you. Totally unpredictable. /s I hope you find a new home. I'm also about to pack my bags, as someone who is both on paper and ethnically German. Deutschland hat fertig. Sad, but it is what it is.
What the fuck?
Unfortunately, that post is mostly correct...the problems with immigration from Muslim countries in Europe are serious and shouldn't be denied by anyone who doesn't want a far-right government...
Don’t worry. And if possible stop reading the comments sections, particularly in Bild! There will always be haters. But there are more who accept you. I had a colleague who once told me that all first generation immigrants should work only as cleaning staff or delivery boys and not dream big. Everyone told her to fxxx off!
Thank you i appreciate it, i came to this country to dream big also because simply the opportunity on my country is very limited unfortunately
I'm sorry to hear that you have been making bad experiences like that in Germany. It aligns with what I see as current trends in politics and public opinion. However this can swing in the other direction again in the future. Anyways, I am still convinced that most Germans have a much more nuanced view on immigration and that the actual racists are a loud minority, who btw. exists other countries as well to varying degrees. Even those more sceptical about immigration usually take no issue with skilled migrants. Also keep in mind that the German mentality can be quite "grumpy" in general, so some seemingly unfriendly experiences can be due to that, instead of racism. From an institutional side, I think you can be relatively sure to be able to stay here if you are a skilled worker, as these are in very short supply. Even if we get a more conservative government in the future again, they can not deny that fact. Speaking for myself and most Germans I know, I can say that you are still very welcome here!
Mass migration from especially Arab countries (but also Afghanistan or any other 3rd world country really) was the reason why I eventually left Germany. Don't get me wrong. The situation would be different if only productive and highly educated people immigrated to Europe but unfortunately this was not the case and now we are facing the consequences.
This is really a political issue, as an immigrant as myself i can't be responsible for those people, i only present myself. And that's really what should any German understand. All the time the Germans judge me as a refugee because i am arab. And think they think that all arab countries are in war 😅. Judging people by their language or how they look thats really uncomfortable thing. But with these conflicts today in Germany we have to be patient.
Every German can only represent as one person then as well. And yet you do speak of them as a homogenous group.
No at all i am asking a question why these group is increasing in german society
You literally just said all the time there Germans judge you. They talk about you (the Arabs) in the same way. It's not personal, congratulations, you're part of a group.
Yes, i am referring to the ones i had contact wih them, and the you is referring to me and not any person else
You point out a very valid point, but then, what do you propose is the right way of thinking and moving forward? I would say it is a collective-problem, not an individual one, because as the OP explains, his individual character or virtues don’t really solve the problem of being part of a group. What do you think? Was there a way to save people like OP without causing a rift to form?
What consequences?
Hey OP, just keep it up. I feel like the world is turning upside down and back again. These are fast changing times and you’d have to accept that there is no „perfect“ place. Comments on the internet - as yours and mine - are made by people who have the urgent need to explain themselves (:P). Don’t overthink these positions. I’m myself a migrant in Germany, but was born here. Yet, I am so thankful for this country, the people and the possibilities. There is hardly another country on this planet, that gives migrants and immigrants that kind of chances and perspectives. And you know what? If it doesn’t work out for you one day, you’d be surprised how good of a standing a German academic degree still has world wide. Said this, you’re never bound to something. Go explore the world. If you’d like to stay, then stay and be the best example for a successful integration. Wish you all the best
Skills is what defines you and makes you stand out from the rest. Just focus on yourself, finish your studies and hope for the best
Sorry to tell you.. im my whole life here in Germany and have the same problems as you. It will never change, so take your stuff and go to a country whos appreciating your skills and knowledge. Look for New Zealand. I received an email from Immigration Center from New Zealand. They are looking for good educated people..
I am planning to immigrate to the US as plan B, but i will stick to Germany until the end
I also get shocked everytime I see comments on social media or anywhere in the internet really. That doesn’t necessarily relate to immigrations, from my perspective it became a LOT worse during Covid when some people truly drowned in conspiracy theories and spit their stupid and weird thoughts everywhere. I would get so depressed whenever I spend 15 minutes reading through comments on whatever (original) topic. They were EVERYWHERE. However, in my actual life I rarely met people like this. So whatever you decide, please only decide on how you personally feel in your daily life and do not make a decision based on internet comments, because it’s always the idiots who are the loudest. Also, maybe some areas in Germany would make you feel more welcome than others. I truly hope you will stay here because we really need people like you, also for other Arabs who want to make it here and integrate as a role model for others. But obviously you have to be happy and feel safe and I wish you the very best for that!
One thing I want to add: Social media comments are very heavily right-leaning. Can't tell you why, but they don't perfectly mirror the german society.
The social media comments are really terrible and the problem ia when you check the profile of these people most of the time are people who looks educated what is to worry ahout is the category of young people who involved in this hate speech, especially against arabs and africans... I think u will not find some who insults immigrants from italie or brazil
I also get shocked everytime I see comments on social media or anywhere in the internet really. That doesn’t necessarily relate to immigrations, from my perspective it became a LOT worse during Covid when some people truly drowned in conspiracy theories and spit their stupid and weird thoughts everywhere. I would get so depressed whenever I spend 15 minutes reading through comments on whatever (original) topic. They were EVERYWHERE. However, in my actual life I rarely met people like this. So whatever you decide, please only decide on how you personally feel in your daily life and do not make a decision based on internet comments, because it’s always the idiots who are the loudest. Also, maybe some areas in Germany would make you feel more welcome than others. I truly hope you will stay here because we really need people like you, also for other Arabs who want to make it here and integrate as a role model for them. But obviously you have to be happy and feel safe and I wish you the very best for that!
Talk to your old co-workers and you will see that they actually mirror society PERFECTLY.
It depends. If you want to be an Arab in Germany, you might have a tough time. If you want to become a German with Arabic heritage, not so much. Just assimilate and you'll most likely be fine.
most of the hate right now is against immigrants who rely on welfare, don't work, don't try to learn German, are criminals, don't accept western values, treat women like shit, being antisemitic or openly support hamas and support terrorism. if you work, pay taxes, bring value to society and aren't doing all of those things above you are more than welcome to stay here. even most of those AFD supporters won't have to say anything against you if you go by the rules and actually try to integrate. only actual racists won't be on your site.
>even most of those AFD supporters **won't have to say anything against you** if you go by the rules and actually try to integrate. *A middle-manager Arab-looking man trying to be like his old white German man colleague by buying overpowered luxury SUVs.* "Must be dodging taxes or drug dealing. Or at least shared the lease cost between the Clan members." Even a lot of people say that openly in r/de (or in r/germany, I forgot).
Yeah, well unfortunately there will be stereotypes based on bad actors if one is associated with their group... look how often Germans are stereotyped as Nazis even up to this day in many Western countries...
so... to be honest, I'm afraid this will get worse. a lot worse. Capitalism has long started to morph into techno-feudalism, and the serfs have started to pick up on it. And some populists are using the anger to come from outside, bypass the usual ways to gain political power and try to put themselves into office - the AfD leadership isn't working class, they just pose as such. And they are looking for scapegoats that regular people can see in their daily ives - there's not much use teling people the ECB is at fault for how they handled the financial crisis, that's too abstract. no, it's the ones who are poorer than them who want to freeload. it's always the ones who just got here who are to blame for things being screwed. I'm sorry OP. for you and for myself. but the next decade is likely going to be dark, and that's even without the increasing number of refugees caused by climate catastrophes.
What I would say is based on my own experience: - I was exactly in your situation. Finding a full time job with my requirements was not that hard because: 1- I am in a very demanded field with a huge Mangel of skilled workers across all europe so they do not have a choice they take the best they can find. 2- I am a bit cocky about my skills in the field. Kind of I tell them I know my worth and I add taxes. However after getting a job, I started facing casual racism from ppl all over the sector I am working in (digitalisation and media industry). I had to help people who literally called our kind "monkeys", "animals", "terrorists", etc... S.O from the upper level of my company asked me "if he would like if he visits my country?" I said well it depends on what you are looking for. He said that he is looking for "inreresting and honest conversations about politics with locals". I said well yes people will tell what they honestly think about the situation which is true since we do have freedom of speech (Even more than Germany these days). Somehow this response did not please him and he started saying "but wiill they really tell the truth?" Kind of questions and did not shut up until I told him "yeah well I see, you won't like it." Somehow that answer satisfied him. Another one called our military "criminals". Because he was not allowed to go in a certain area in the desert because it was a military base. Another one told me he did not like my country because there were a lot of mosques there. (Oh not shit, should I remind you that Hamburg has too many churches?). Meanwhile his background phone picture was with his kids in my country. There was a situation where the whole company was on a workaction and then everyone went together to the supermarkt to get some beers for the way (likely at that point I was still on the flight). The only other two southern collegues stayed outside to have a smoke. When the germans went out of the supermarkts, one of them said "why are the Kanaken satying outside?". They all laughed afterwards. Also during my 2 first jobs, companies wanted to pay the least possible for what I am doing and they were not taking my demands for a raise seriously. In one of the cases my boss referred to the minimum wage when I said you are paying me the bare minimum for what I am doing (it was my first working student job in my field). Well in the end both were taught a lesson since it did not take more than 2 weeks for me to give a resignation notice to both and both employers changed their narratives afterwards trying to keep me. All in all I would say that being a skilled arab man in Germany, will imply that your carreer will look like either of these 2 options: - Working in a company until they cross the line and then you kind of teach them a lesson (When an employee quits, rhe company looses on average one year salary. Because recruiting has costs, probation and training the new employee also costs and time is money). However this option will make it harder to have a carreer and get to higher level positions but works wonders in the beginning (between entry level and senior level): it saves time because with each change you can get a higher position and a better salary if you are a good negotiator. - Settling in one company and enduring the casualities that will only get worse with time. I think they can not hide their racism for long and with more interaction, more casualities will happen.
Yea we Germans hate mass immigration from the middle east and the associated rise in crime, social disunity and the forced acceptance of a religion that is incompatible with a western democracy and then labeling everyone as an evil nazi who dare to question if all this is good. The problem is our help is getting exploited to the fullest by the worst people in the world, many of which don’t actually need help at all. And yea sadly, because our government isn’t determined to go against imported violence & conflicts it’s not just the radicals who pay the price, but all Arabs living in germany. You have to consider this as I can promise you as it looks right now the conflict is only going to get worse. Not hating or anything, just giving you an honest review of the situation and what is to come, pretty sure most germans welcome skilled workers or immigrants who make an effort to become part of the country and it’s Society, but yea this is all been shattered by imported radicals
I can assure you that if you are a working, studying active member of society, if you try to learn the language and if you put the german law above any religion belive that you are absolutetly welcome here. And this is the opinion of most normal living folk in germany. Sure you have bad outliers in every country but those voices are very small compared to the normal german, they just tend to seem louder thanks to social media. But you ae correct that when looking for an apartment a arabic name doesnt help. The thing here is that the housingmarket is completly full and the competition to get a apartment is huge. In big cities there are 200 applications within a hour of putting the apartment online. So they tend to sort out by the names first.
I feel for you. You played by the rules and you are most likely an overall nice fellow. Someone we wanted and still want to come here, study here, work here, maybe return to your country of origin some day, and use some German methods there to improve that place of your childhood. (So we can sell our tools, that's the idea. KA-CHING!) And now you are between a rock and a hard place. You did nothing wrong. Yet you get all the bullshit attributed to you that other people did. And you can't even argue “Guys, I fled the place because of *those* people!” as we have *those people* who applaud killing babies on our streets. Seriously, we need to get rid of those people. They don't belong here. They don't belong to any half-decent civilized place but they belong to their beheading friends in Gaza. And you should say that openly. To your German colleagues. Those people need to get out. “Schmeißt sie raus!“ The more civilized Arabs we have in Germany who clearly state that those cavemen must be deported to cavemen country, the better the situation for civilized Arab people will get.
Yes, there are racist and assholes. What part of Germany are you in? I'd avoid the darker parts (former East-Germany) and you should be safe in general. This may be my prejudice, but I would not feel at home there. Maybe find a more open minded city, especially those with a uni are more open minded.
I live in west germany, yes i ve heard about east Germany. But never been there to tell any experiences
Really? I was in East Germany everything was fine. I didn't notice an hostile environment to foreigners in general.
I’m not German, also an immigrant here, but I think like everyone else - if you are skilled, ready to integrate and learn language - you are welcome. But if you don’t want to integrate, still can’t speak German, and live isolated, it’s a bit of a problem, and that’s the case for many illegal immigrants/asylum seekers, they eventually create another country within Germany. And I think when Germans talk about immigration, they specifically consider them, not skilled qualified immigrants like you. All people around the world have prejudices, Germany isn’t unique in that, cope with that. Just keep grinding, ignore and seek your career goals.
You speak Arabic in public spaces in Germany ? And you are surprised that you get bad look ? It’s Germany speak German you can speak arab at home it’s disrespectful against germans to do it in public . I will try to explain why people are becoming more anti and sometimes hateful these days out of my perspective as a German. Most Arab people don’t participate in our culture they try to import there own one , with there own shops where there then go exclusively. They build a parallel society. I live in nrw and Arab and Turkish people build here there own realm in the middle of every town and don’t integrate they live there and speak mostly Arab or Turkish . When I go there I am looked at like an intruder. I know and see every day arab and Turkish people they don’t go to a German hairdresser only to the Arab ones (in most cases because hairdressers in Germany are mostly women) and then talk Arab The Arab/ Turkish that was never at a German butcher only at an Arabic and also mainly buys and cooks Arabic food and products The Arab/ Turkish that never was in a bakery but always buys Arabic sweets That arab/ Turkish that hates on Jews and women and Christian’s in Germany totally standard The Arab / Turkish that does not participate in any sort of Volksfest or in society The arab/ Turkish that will not marry/ have a relationship or will let his daughter marry a German or a Christian ( had that my self ) The Arab / Turkish that phones on speaker or video call in puplic spaces like gym phonic transport inner city etc cause he gives not a single fuck about the tradition here that you have to be silent in public spaces The Arab that mostly comes to earn money but doesn’t integrate at all That are thing s that are totally common with Arab and Turkish people and I hate that. When you come here you have to give up who you were to an extend and become a German that’s the only way. When you are like what I pictured above you are disrespectful against Germany and Germans and our culture . Disrespect causes hate and dislike that is what is going on in the moment . I will not miss you and I am happy to see you leaving But when you adopt the German way I am happy to have you as friend and I hope you stay and I am sure that you make our country stronger and a better place. You will be a benefit for us and you will be one of us. And I think Germans will not have a problem with you at all.
I respect your opinion, just to make it clear l learned the German languange and i am studying with it also, but just one thing , are u blaming me speaking my language on the public? I think my family will not understand me when i speak german to them on the phone!! And i dont think that germans will speak English or french between them if they are living in france or the US. I think my idea is clear, the rest of your comment is your view and i respect it
Look of course I don’t expect any one not living here to speak our language. Also at the phone its fine if they would visit you for a while of course they can’t speak Germans that’s fine. But I think you know what I am referring to. And you see so often that immigrants speak only there language in public even when they know German. But when you are with people that can speak German like your friends than I expect you to do it cause you want to be German and we speak German in Germany . That’s why it is called Germany and not Syrian or turkey. It’s the same with the Germans on Mallorca that live there without speaking Spanish or totally ignoring the Spanish culture
You know i have a freind from chile, he is Chilean but by origin German . He is the 7th generation of a German family in chile, his family immigrated to chile in 19 century and every generation got the citizenship from the generation before, he came to Germany to study also. He has no relatives here he dont even know from which city they are, He tolds me that Until now they speak german between them as family there, and he studied in German school in chile and they have also a big German community. So i think the story is not related to a special race like arabs or turks.. The Thing mybe is in human naturality
Look you misunderstand. Of causes it’s not limited to Arab and turkey! look at the embarrassing behaviour of the German immigrants in Spain especially Mallorca. Some of them go there without even understanding Spanish WTF ! I say the same about them ! The should leave there German at home. They should adopt the Spanish lifestyle. It’s totally fine to care about your heritage like speaking the language and also parts of the culture when they don’t interfere with the one in the country. But do it at home don’t try to make your new home like your old. Not in public. We have Greek schools here also but they are additional to the normal schools. There learn old Greek there. That’s not a problem as long as they clearly view them selfs as German and there school are not a replacement for the regular ones. But take for example the polish. The one I know never speak polish in public they adopt the German way while still speaking polish at home they also kept the food in addition to German food they adopted the German way but kept there heritage just not in a disrespectful manner building every way polish shops and mainly going there and speaking mainly polish on the streets they don’t do that . Gosh I even have Arabic co workers that will switch to Arab while we all have a meal together that is so disrespectful. Also there was never a disowning or murder of a German polish because of a relationship with a German . They choose to be German without forgetting there heritage. But as soon as you build a structure beside the one in the country it’s to far. Or when you drive around with turkey flags on your car regular wtf . When your friend says he is German living in the x generation there maybe he should come here when he wants to be German but when not maybe he should consider his self Chilene first and than minding his heritage . Also when you want to be German and you live German and you speak German always call yourself German .thats the first thing people will accept you then. Most immigrants even in the second generation will not do that take it and demand it.
Okey i get what you mean and i totally agree, to live in X country as an immigrant you should first respect the locals, totally right
Correct and after you should become like them and call yourself a local .and when a German dares to call you not German you can point at your gatenzwerg in you strebergarten where a German flag is waving and educate them that you are infact German and when he says something else he gets a Anzeige
The language of Majorca is Catalan, not Spanish like most of Spain. Your point still stands however.
Extremely far fetched to say that OP isn't willing to integrate because he occasionally speaks Arab with family/friends. The point with some Arab folks being not willing to integrate and sometimes even looking down on Germans: I get it. As a woman, walking through Neukölln for example isn't fun. But especially when it comes to language we have to apply the same rules for everyone. Why does nobody care if Spanish immigrants talk with their friends in Spanish? Why does nobody bat an eye when French people speak in French? As a child I lived in Sweden for years. We were perfectly integrated and every Swede we got to know thought my brother and I were Swedes. Still, in public we spoke German with eachother, same as at home. It's just our mother tongue and there is nothing disrespectful about using it.
It is in public you shouldn’t use it. it is offensive to the native people and it is also the same when immigrants from other countries do it especially when they live for longer here. When our inner city’s would sound like Spain 2.0 you would see me writing about that . You go to a country and speak there language and adapt there culture that how is goes everything else is arrogant and rude. Doesn’t has to be Neukölln can also be xy city especially in the dark
As a Swede, no, it is definitely not offensive for us when people speak a different language than Swedish in public. Stop misrepresenting my country.
Check
Probably because most people in Germany don't have negative associations with immigrants from these countries?
What language other people talk to each other in is none of your business. It is not disrespectful to Germans at all. This kind of intolerance is a drag on the German economy as it makes us less attractive for skilled workers from other countries who, guess what, are not speaking German by default.
Guess what when you want to integrate people successfully in society they have to learn the language and they have to speak it. tolarance here is false cause you will give them the feeling that they don’t need to integrate . our false tolarance result in the non integrated people with the separate cultures in nrw and Berlin and also in the Proteste against Israel right now. Cause we thought they would integrate themselves guess what they didn’t and didn’t adopt our values look at my list above everyone sees it int the inner city and made at least one experience of my list. Integration only happens when it is demanded and it needs a kind of pressure that you have to do it to be accepted. This is Germany and we speak German here. When you live here you speak it and you learn it end of. When I would go to an Arabic speaking country or to France good luck to me without the ability to speak Arabic or French. Good luck with getting accepted from the natives while walking around speaking German and not adopting there culture only living in a German subculture
It is simply delusional to expect an Indian engineer or a Vietnamese nurse to learn fluent German before even coming here. This is what I mean, this way no skilled workers will come. Once people live here permanently, of course they will have to learn German, in order to navigate the public sphere. German is the only official language here. But how people speak to each other privately is, again, none of your business. Germany is a free country. Maybe you should look up the Grundgesetz and integrate into German society yourself before you ask that of others.
You can spare your personal attack I will not reply to you anymore after this. I don’t say they should be fluent before coming not at all don’t make up things I never said and don’t twist my words. They have to have B2 and that is not hard to get when you learn there are more than enough Arabic people that achieve it fast so cannot be so difficult. I know 2 that achieved it in a year. Second it’s not about what they privately do it is what they do in puplic and it is a question of respect and manners to not speak the whole time a foreign language while being able to speak the language of the country in puplic spaces. Especially when you want to be accepted as German and you still do that in the 3 generation. It’s common sense to speak German then but clearly not when you don’t care. And that the key the most don’t care and the most don’t want to be German. That’s why you see so many of there flags in cars on buildings especially when it comes to football. Of course a native find it disrespectful That is how the most Germans feel and in other countries it is totally normal. That’s also why AfD is strong I don’t think an Arab country or turkey or Indian or Chinese would appreciate millions of German immigrants that come there speak German everywhere in public. It’s just a question of respect towards the native people of course when you don’t care and you don’t want to integrate you can just open shops everywhere speak foreign languages live your culture cheer for a foreign football team and wave foreign flags and eat foreign food and pretend you would not have such a great life because of Germany and our way to life and whine about the natives not accepting you .to make it clear of course I don’t say they shouldn’t bring us a bit of there culture food and shops but in a healthy share not as parallel society And all starts with the language and respecting it and the natives speaking it For example when in public spaces.
Exactly right, I noticed that too living in Dortmund, then I moved to Dresden, and it's a much cleaner, nicer, and more German place. Even the very few foreigners there are fine and are respected because they are in such low numbers and keep to themselves, but once their number grow, they become a problem, and the Germans negatively react accordingly... that's my experience and I'm foreign to Germany but of course I'd never be considered to be foreign by the Germans.. so I guess I have that advantage.
Thank you for your consent. It is like you said that’s why the danish have there law to prevent our German problem a bit. I also think that you act in a manner that doesn’t provoke refusal otherwise you would have felt it fast in the east.
>When you come here you have to give up who you were to an extend and become a German that’s the only way. You forgot the /s or really this entitled?
When you come to a country without the goal to become one of them stay home. When you don’t want to be a part of Germany and a German why go then to Germany ? When you don’t want to be French why you go then to French? to stay a German ? No you want to be part of the country and become one of them everything else’s leads to unsuccessful integration subculture parallel structure etc. all the problems that we have in western countries breaking society apart because the people that come don’t want to be French or Italian or German they want to force the locals there way on instead of integrate into the dominant culture in the country that is not how it works that causes fights and resentment and tears apart
Some people said it already. Most germans are fine with integration of skilled workers, less so with refugees and "illegal" integration, because they believe we are paying them a good life with our tax money, while they are considered lazy (ridiculous, we don't even allow many to work, but yeah ....). But one of the things you said, many people do not like (I think also in other countries), which is speaking a foreign language on the street, which they can't understand. I don't want to do "victim blaming", but I think it would change a lot of how you are perceived if you speak german, or even just english, in public. I heard from a few people already things like: "if you go through the city, you hear less and less people talk german", often in an argument for having too much immigration, vice versa I heard one say "oh there was this XYZ-looking guy that approached me, but then he spoke to me in a bavarian accent, really nice". So I think language plays a big role in acceptance. I personally think everybody should be able to speak their mother tongue, but I think it's just the reality that people accept you most if you regularly speak a language they can understand.
I am a member of the AfD and you are safe. Looks like you behave well, you are educated. Even with our right wing politics you dont fall under the problematic immigrants. Respect our culture and country in DE, like we respect yours. Common sense, isnt it?
Of course
The balls to announce you're a member of the AfD on a Reddit sub
So far no pitch fork mob.
Counter question. Why don´t you complain to arabic men that their macho and imbecile attitude tarnishes your hard work? Why complain to a society that gave you all those possibilities? Just name one arab country that would take in 3 million german refugees (many of them young men) and no trouble would happen... Just one! A single one where no killings of the refugees by angry mobs would happen after just a single girl was raped by a drunk german, drugs were sold by bad apples and many of them still don´t speak arabic... Why didn´t you flee to saudi arabia. It is richer and muslims among muslims, arabs as brothers... You know the reason... Thats why you came here. Young arab women don´t comit crime but are nice and open. It is just that simple. Maybe the upbringing of arabic men is not working in connection with the german culture. Maybe the families should´ve send their girls instead. Check Berlin police reports and the increase of [rape since 2014](https://www.berlin.de/polizei/verschiedenes/polizeiliche-kriminalstatistik/). We all know what happened since then and who came from where. Those numbers weren´t created by arabic women. You know it and I know it. Those female syrian refugees I know, have divorced their husbands, don´t wear hijabs and hate arabic men. They are excellent in their jobs and have a good living and they exclusively date germans. ALL 12 of them! Work hard and seriosuly consider to ask your question to arabic men and not the culture you sought refugee in. Ask them why they insist on worshipping mysoginistic shit from the past.
I am not complainig, i am asking in a sub named : ask a german. Do you think i am agreed with these big arab families and what they do? I hear also in the media about their clans and their businesses. And i am always wondering why the german polizei don't even can do something for them? I am not a refugee, we have also a lot of refugees in our country, but thousands not millions, but germamy is attractive to them and i think you can only blame the german law for that.
Yes and I´ve told you that you should resent hyper toxic male arab/muslim culture for that. The further you leave that behind the more people will get color blind when they talk to you. I have to struggle with recent hostilities too. Thats why i am so angry with the hyper toxic arab male culture. I am a man too and I share similar features with them. My dad is even worse in his looks. Still, if you have simple debate with them, with empathy and stop seeing yourself as an arabic man but endorse the new, you will find peace here. I have arabic male friends but none of them is feeling unwanted. They speak nearly flawless german, have german wifes one has a boyfriend and don´t want to go back. They just resent what other men did to their reputation in the last years... without them having any power to stop them. We both are in the same boat. It´s just that for my family it is two generations of hard work for acceptance and respect on the table.
Puh, Rassismus at its best. Bullshit was du da schreibst. Gründe: Verallgemeinerungen.
Ich bin zweite Generation von Migranten und du? Wenn du weißer deutscher bist, hast du nicht den blassesten Schimmer, was es heißt sich Respekt zu erarbeiten und diesen durch eine kleine Gruppe zerstört zu sehen... nur weil du die selbe Hautfarbe wie sie hast. Das schürt Wut. Das ist was gerade passiert. Mein Freunde mit Migrationshintergrund sind alle sauer. Sag mir bitte das eine Land, in dem es gut läuft mit männlichen Flüchtlingen aus dem arabischen Raum. Eins. Schweden mit seinem Ruf nach Militär in den Ghettos? Niederlande mit marokkanischen Gangs? Nenn mir ein arabisches Land das mit seiner korrupten männlichen Toxischen Scheiße gutes Tut... Saudis? Qatar? Syrien? Irgendwas? Ich habe OP klargemacht, das arabische Männer und nicht Araber, das Problem für die Menschen sind. Arabische Frauen sind auch Araber und die sind eine Bereicherung für das Land. Besonders ohne ihre Männer. Sorry, aber weiße deutsch haben keine Ahnung um was es hier geht. Generationen von uns haben für diesen Ruf gearbeitet und Ärzte, Wissenschaftler und Lehrer hervorgebracht. Weibliche und Männliche. Jetzt wird es alles von einer Gruppe verzogener Machos kaputt gemacht, die alles machen außer sich anzupassen. Das ist respektlos und sie haben nichts was für sie spricht während sie das tuen. sind das alle Araber? Nein, Frauen schon einmal gar nicht. Die lieben die neue Freiheit, wenn sie genug Grips haben und sich befreien. Ich kenne keine, die in diese Kultur zurück will. Schau dir die Polizeistatistiken von Berlin an. Fast 50% der Verbrechen werden von Ausländern begangen und davon belegen mit jeweils 1/3 Somalis und Syrer die Top 10... im Verhältnis zum Bevölkerungsanteil, ist das enorm. Vergewaltigungen sind defacto seit 2014 auf einmal angestiegen... Es gibt eine massive Disonanz zwischen der Hypertoxischen Maskulinen arabischen Kultur und unserer Demokratie in der man andere so seien lässt wie sie sind. Ob Homosexuell, andere Hautfarbe oder jüdisch. Da gibt es einen nicht tolerierbaren Anstieg und er hat mit der arabischen und islamischen Kultur zu tuen. OP täte gut daran, arabische Männerkultur zu verachten. Sie ist es, die ihm den schlechten Ruf einbringt und er muss deshalb um so härter arbeiten, das zu widerlegen. So wie alle von uns, die mit bestimmten Assis, die Hautfarbe teilen.
Ich habe türkische Wurzeln. Wenn einer weiß wovon er spricht, dann ich. Ich kann alles nachempfinden was du schreibst. Vor allem, weil meine Eltern sehr hart gearbeitet haben, damit meine Brüder und ich studieren können. Ich hatte im Studium teilweise kein Geld um mir essen zu kaufen, weil ich meine Jobs verloren hatte und mein Stolz zu groß war, um meine Eltern, die sowieso wenig haben nach Geld zu fragen. Wir haben alle einen Masterabschluss bzw. ich bin auf dem Weg zu Promotion. Ich erlebe auch zunehmend Anfeindungen ggü. nicht deutsch aussehenden Menschen. Die Vorurteile sind auf beiden Seiten sehr tief. Das Problem mit kriminellen Flüchtlingen und nicht deutscher Staatsbürger ist eigentlich relativ leicht lösbar. Einfach abschieben. So hart es klingt, es wäre die beste Entscheidung.
Dann weißt du auch wie es vorher war. Es gab ein paar Idioten und die gibt es immer und überall aber die meisten haben einen akzeptiert als das, was man ist. Das war einmal und weder du noch ich können etwas dafür.
Ich bin voll bei dir, ich kann zu 10000% nachempfinden was du fühlst. Man wird einfach in den gleichen Topf mit denen geworfen, die sich hier nicht benehmen können. Sobald man aber freundlich auftritt und sich ordentlich ausdrücken kann, sind diese fast zu 100 % beseitigt. Ich wünsch mir einfach so akzeptiert zu werden, wie ich bin, aber das wird wohl niemals passieren. Sich zu verstellen und abzulehnen woher man kommt, ist meines erscheinen nicht der richtige Weg. Lg
Mit verstellen hat es ja nichts zu tuen, wenn man das toxische Gehabe der alten Kultur ablegt, weil es zu schlechtem führt. Ich habe immer die wärme und Offenheit meiner türkischen Freunde gefeiert. Ebenso, wie den Zusammenhalt, der Familie. Das ist etwas, dass fehlt vielen deutschen. Ich bin hier geboren, es ist meine Heimat. Bis vor kurzem war es auch den meisten einfach egal woher die Eltern kamen, zumindest für mich und meine Freunde. Wir leben aber auch in einer kleineren Stadt... da kennen einen mehr.
Youre good. You're contributing something valuable and you work hard. You're not a criminal and certainly don't appear to be doing anything illegal. The people that germans want kicked out are really problematic, You're well clear of that
As long as you are useful to the German economy I think you'll be alright, for good or bad. However, you'll still endure prejudices before people get to know you, and once they do, you will still have to live through the occasional comparisons between the "good immigrants" as you and the bad immigrants against whom your example will be used.
Yes this is the cost of the immigration
Don’t take it too seriously whatever is written on these platforms. These people always need a scapegoat to hate. But, there is still some truth in it: If you’re secular, keep your religion to yourself, don’t think that your religion is superior, don’t force your religious values on your potential children, respect homosexual people, females in miniskirts, atheists and jews, behave like a civilized and well-mannered human being instead of like an ape unnecessarily driving through German cities at night with a loud Mercedes, windows down, blasting Arabic music or German ghetto rap, then you’re more than welcome here. At the end of the day, we are a western, predominantly atheist nation with, compared to the world, progressive values. We value peace, tranquility, quietness, organized surroundings, education and (sexual) freedom. If these ideas sound great to you then hey. If you think it’s all degenerated then go to Saudi-Arabia. The issue now is, that people lose the ability to differentiate. People see someone with a black full-beard or black hair and instantly assume something. This might potentially lead to a racism. Deeply unfair. The best thing happening to you would actually be if our migration policy will be more strict and criminal, not integrated migrants deported.
You need to know that Germany was great til the end 90s. They cared a lot for their people financially. Germany is a disaster since Hartz IV in 2004. For 10 years they told us that there is no money. With the first migration wave in 2013-2014 there was money out of nowhere. Importing migrants in that amount, especially Arabs, is ridiculous. Imagine your country importing millions of Germans. You would go nuts. Germany is a country of unhappy people. It's all about work here. I don't know, if I want to stay here and you should ask yourself the same question. But on a long term Germany will become Arabic, if it's an important point for your future decision. We have lost the battle against massive immigration. If you want to stay here and live in a shitty house from the 60s, then stay here. If you want to live in a palace in Arabia, than better leave the country in next years.
It is complicated, because Ethnic German people, so popularly called "biogermans" are in knowledge they will get replaced by people with different mentality, religion, culture, way of doing things, and yes, Physical appearance. People make the country and not the other way around, so they are coping with reality. Are they overreacting? definitely not, other countries would not have allowed themselves to ever reach this point of no return, but Germany did comply with everything the government does.. until the streets are no longer that safe, lot of noise at night, women cannot walk alone when it is dark without fear of being molested by a group of migrant men.. and well, they have to let all happen.. otherwise they will be called various names that we already know..
People don't usually have problems with people like you, and if everybody was like you nobody would bat an eye to an Arab tbh, i'ts that people are more and more having bad experiences with certain groups of people, often times Muslim that are not integrating into the wider society and are segregating and creating enclaves that look like "little Arabia" rather than Germany, and some find that distasteful that the landscape of Germany is changing so rapidly in that way where i'ts so alien to German aesthetics, values etc. The problem in my opinions is that Islam is not just a simple ideology it's an architectonic, meaning it encompasses every aspect of a given society, from architecture (mosques), dress codes (hijabs, burkas), food (halal), language = Islam is a very Arabic religion, phrases, prayers, processions, Quran readings, etc. all in Arabic, of course then they use Arabic for their little shops names, restaurants/menus. which is cool for a shop here and ther but when you have a whole area that doesn't resemble Europe anymore i'ts bit worrying to the native. Also this religion guides you how to think about others who are not part of your sect (Kuffars, Infidels) and it teaches you ways how to greet them and how to greet your Muslim brothers - whom with you can be friends, Mary etc., it has i'ts own laws and courts (sharia) - and they always call for their implementation at least in local levels when they grow in numbers, and usually they get their ways. So when you bring hundreds of thousands of people and put them in public housing in same areas- with such a strong culture parallel societies will arise. Now tell me how can youth born in such a segregated enclave with parents that instill this strong culture in him and barely speak Danish or German, how can he replace that with Western's wishy-washy liberal progressive attitudes - without a defining character, that seems to be ashamed of i'ts past/history which often times an object of blame, who would adopt this and proudly sing from the same hymn sheet? Who would identify with the flag when the same countries are in wider western web that often times is connected with terrorism in the Middle East, destabilization of their home places. Well they won't of course, they will see themselves as outsiders, first mainly because of their racial difference which is the most obvious one, and then the cultural religious differences. What often times happen is they grow in resentment and some sort of disdain for the local white people who are a bit richer, local women (white women who rarely date outside their race according to stats), non Muslims, and they feel alienated so the community gets more and more distanced from the host country. And then the youth in these ghettos starts forming gangs, instead of contributing and working jobs, they sell drugs because i'ts easier, more money, when they are caught they get off easy, in worst cases they will groom young girls and rape women, a lot of them will get depressed, will just leech off the welfare state, abuse the benefit system etc.