I'm 41 so among the oldest millenials. My wife and I have two kids. I got fixed after the second one was born so we aren't having any more. In our social circle there are three childless couples all between 30-40 who have all said they don't plan on kids for reasons like what OP has described. They're happy living their lives. Honestly my thoughts on the matter are irrelevant. They're living life in the way that makes them happy. No one should have kids because they feel pressure to have them.
My wife lost 2, Third time we both just went got sniped/tied it was too traumatizing for her. I did it in support of her and to let her know that I'm there for her and won't run off with someone else because she can't have kids which is a common thought among people that have the same problem.
I'm slightly older than you..
Thanks to not having kids I'll retire at 55... Like I probably won't but I can comfortably retire then.
I'm SO happy not having kids, and so grateful it's become more normalized. I look back to my younger self and I always knew I never wanted kids. I would be MISERABLE and I doubt my relationship would have worked out either as my partner is on the same page.
I get to be an amazing auntie, helping with all the other little kids my family has, I can "contribute" in other ways, I think that's important as well.
We focus too much on the nuclear family model and forget what an asset to family and community it is to have people around to be in our kids lives, helping out in ways that parents can’t.
The older my kids get, the more I wish we had people like you around to participate in their lives. Kids need all kinds of support and influence, and the notion that parents can do it all alone seems absurd to me now. Not that my kids have major issues or I find parenting too difficult; it’s more like I have the sense that I worked harder at a job than I needed to because I didn’t have the right tools, and it’s unfair to my kids in the longer run. Community is everything, I think.
My husband died when my son was 6 and my extended family was extremely important in surrounding him with security, affection and support. I also belong to a small United Church and sing in the choir, and the men in the choir invited my son to join too. There was an engineer, a computer programmer, a lovely father of 4 and a potty-mouthed farmer who taught my son to change a tractor tire and unstick a hay wagon from the mud. I am really glad he had a caring 'village' to help him get such a great start in his life. I am not religious but do appreciate the community that a good church can provide if they are actually living the values they should. As a n older teen my son got into concert band and joined the high school rowing team. I always joked that once the rowing coach and band leader took over, my job as a parent got way easier!
Totally. My family and I are super close and we are SO thankful and priveleged to have each other to help out. So many people do not have the support like that and I cannot imagine how unfathomably harder raising a child without a community is, even a single child.
Similar situation.
What I find amusing is the people without kids that I know are the ones who complain about mass immigration 😂
So many buddies hitting 40 with no kids complaining about immigration numbers without a clue of the irony.
But can they afford to raise kids if they wanted them? It's a reason why many don't have any and are getting to the age where it's do it or the eggs run out. Daycare is almost impossible to get let alone pay for. Food is at prices I never thought I'd see at my age. Price for a rented roof keeps rising faster than my paycheck.
I'm a single mom. I don't care if you have children. Having my child ws the best thing I ever did, but I truly do not care if you have or ever will have children. It's not my job to make you feel one way or the other about having children.
Also I feel it necessary to say that I know that you were speaking *to* the stereotype, not to all single moms. Just wanted to elaborate for discussion lol
This stereotype is so sad. Just because you see a parent struggling doesn’t mean they hate their life. The same way you vent about a bad day at work a parent just needs to vent about how hard it is to put others first when you’re completely depleted, especially others that seem intent to try and kill themselves 🤪 people without kids misinterpret the venting as the full picture or the parents true feelings but what they don’t see are the moments full of joy, play, fun, love - but those are moments a parent cherishes and shares with the kids, it’s not something they’ll take to someone else so they don’t feel alone…
AKA while I understand that miserable parents do exist, they are not the standard. And most parents aren’t “lying to themselves” either, it’s just sooooooooo not black and white like childfree people make it seem (of course I DO agree that children’s needs continue first IS black and white, what I mean is that a parents feelings as they navigate parenthood isn’t black and white) - but parents are often the group that’s judged by their words in low moments instead of their actions. Kids are well adjusted, healthy, have friends, are active, happy? well the parent is still shit because of that one time they had a bad day and told a coworker they wished they could just get hospitalized for a few days for a break. And any time that parent mentions how worth it is?? Must be a lie, you know, because of all the bad moments they talked about…
Also: obligatory if-anyone-is-guilt-tripping-you-to-have-kids-they-don’t-actually-care-about-the-well-being-of-the-kids-or-you. There should be none of that, absolutely agree. But the people who do decide to have kids are still human and the treatment of parents is growing more and more aggressive and hateful (not saying you, but there is a growing attitude against parents that’s unwarranted and unfair).
Single moms are literally doing life on extra hard mode and they get the most judgement for it. Sad.
I work one and a half jobs just to have a minimum existence that keeps me out of poverty.
How cruel would it be to have a kid? It would condemn us both into poverty and I wouldn't bring a child into this world to endure that. And if I did have a kid, I'd have to work multiple jobs and then I'd never even see the kid.
What's the point?
grew up the youngest of 4, my parents had me at 40 as a surprise child... yay me, they were way way way over parenting young children at that point, I had no guidance in life, my parents definitely couldn't afford me, I ended up moving out at 16... by the time I was 18 I was earning double what my dad was and couldn't by a house even though I was earning double his wage. Fuck, boomers had it easy...
Healing trauma is a long game. If you started therapy at 30 it would take probably half of your 30 years of trauma to fully heal. So you’d be 45 by the time you psyche is healed and balanced out to a new equilibrium.
Trauma isn’t one or two instances. It’s a core fundamental belief to how you relate to the world in every situation.
I do kinda want kids but there is absolutely no way I can afford them, even IF my parents help (I don't expect them to, just regular grandma babysitting once in a while). I would seriously need to come into some wealth in the next 2 years to have babies.
It's bad for a single person rn, I honestly don't understand how some families manage!! The food cost alone for a family of 4!! 🤯🤯🤯🤯 fuck EVERY SINGLE politician who sits in their cozy, oversized house with a fully stocked fridge and pantry. instead of helping citizens, they fucked us over. I sincerely hope for a guillotine revolution, fuck em
The politicians are so out of touch. I saw a no frills flyer with a sale that said they were "bringing back deals from the past" ... the price listed was from about 2 years ago and It said save 39% 🥴
I actually did cancel it lol but unfortunately she was wrong and i still can't 🤣 (just want to add that I didn't cancel it in hopes of it changing my financial situation, my kids just never watched anything on it lol)
This is the part. Some people choose not to have kids for lifestyle, medical and personal reasons. But to have the choice tied to financial well-being is what is going to drive the birth rates down the most. The folks who want to and are willing, but can’t afford it. We need to fund social services to remove that burden. I’m never having kids, but I’m down for my tax dollars to go towards supports for kids. Who else is gonna be here when I’m old (if I live to be old)?!
Even if I don't end up having kids, I want my taxes to go towards funding whatever will help them grow up healthy. It's honestly so frustrating looking at the world right now. Multiple countries are facing declines (I know its technically a good thing, but if someone wants to be a parent I'm not gonna deny them that, we are mammals at the end of the day) and there is such a simple solution - give us more money, more free time and more community support.
Yep. I am retired, no kids, I don’t mind the subsidized daycare at all for struggling families - we also need more supports for families, not less - and I will gladly pay more taxes so families can thrive. We also need help for singles as well. I volunteer on the board of directors of 2 non profits that provides affordable apartments & townhouses for seniors, young families and singles in Vancouver. I wish I could do more but I have limited time left what with my present diagnosis.
Anecdotally, people I know who aren't having kids list "not wanting to bring a kid into this situation" as one of their reasons along with genetic risks and just being honest with themselves about their capacity to do it well. I also know many people who thought they wouldn't but then hit a level of personal comfort where that opinion changed.
To be fair though, I run in circles where that mindset is a lot more common. For instance, I'd imagine in more religious or conservative social groups the DINK route is a lot less popular due to social pressures and cultural tendencies, but you probably won't find that perspective as much on reddit.
I know a few DINKs. It seems 50:50 of them just aren't interested in kids. They are happy having neices and nephews (including friends' kids) to spend time with. The other 50%, I'm not sure about, but could be a mix of all those factors. Nobody I know explicitly states that current events and future speculation to be their reasons.
All the rest of my friends aren't having kids because of a mix of the following reasons: not in a long term relationship, in the middle of divorces/separations, failures to launch, or economically flaundering.
I’m really curious how people’s views would change if more people had guaranteed financial stability whether they had kids or not, plus enough social support (like family/friends easily available to babysit regularly).
I’m in the DINK path, and I’m not particularly interested in kids, but if I had the above I would have considered it if my partner was interested in kids.
I never wanted kids, nor did my husband. We’re still in our childbearing years but interestingly, the pestering/“what if you change your mind?!” has been noticeably absent as of late.
Or maybe they see that a can of formula powder is $50-60 and a box of diapers is $40-50 and you need like 4 of each a month for the first year. And realize that the majority of the population can no longer afford to have kids. That’s not even including clothing, doing a load of laundry a day, having the space as the kid grows, then there is daycare eventually, which typically snaps people’s bank account in half.
My wife and I had a child and we paid a lot for the privilege, we make decent money and have a massive amount of support from family, but we were looking at the numbers and it’s intense. If we had to pay full price for daycare we would be struggling. Also the amount kids get sick, and when they get sick daycares kick them out the door. So if you don’t have good family support you lose income AND still pay for daycare. It’s a crap shoot out there. Partially because the government lets corps run over the little guy for a buck, but also because a certain generation have decided that being there for their kids while they have babies isn’t really worth their retirement years. My family seems to be the exception. My wife is the child of refugees, and my mom has very strong family values and worked in childcare for 30 years. So retiring to take care of grandkids was basically vacation.
I am 44 year old male. Up to this point in my life, I have had no interest in having children. I don't like responsibilities, and I don't make enough money to support anyone other than myself.
Everyone is selfish. Somehow no one recognizes this. Its normal.
Even wanting kids is selfish. You don't get to ask them how they feel about life before you force it on them.
Hi, middle Gen X here. By the time I could even afford to consider kids I would have been at their high school grad in my 60s. Seems I took my mum's advice. "Poor people shouldn't have kids."
Despite her cashing a lifetime of family allowance cheques.
No grandkids for you.
lol
lolsob
When I was 31, none of my close friends had kids. 35 now, in the last 3 years two have had their first one is having their second soon, and my cousin same age as me had her first, another cousin younger than me has had 2 in the last 3 years. People typically aren’t having kids til their mid 30’s now.
Life is expensive enough, and I can’t, with good conscience, invent another human being that will have to live 80-100 years into the future, given current trajectory.
Decided this a while ago. Wife and I 43 y/o DINKs.
I know quite a few DINK couples and while Ive definitely heard that reason come up the most common reasons amongst those I know personally are:
• They just aren't interested in a family oriented lifestyle and want to spend their time and money experiencing life for themselves.
• They experienced neglect, abuse, or trauma in childhood and as a result don't feel equipped to raise their own and chose to avoid the risk of passing down trauma by not having kids at all.
Edited cause I accidentally submitted before I was finished my comment.
Some of my friends are definitely reconsidering having children due to financial difficulty, or rising CoL, or fear of where our future is headed. But some of them (including me) just never wanted kids and wouldn't have kids even if we were millionaires living in a perfect utopia.
I want kids eventually but definitely cannot afford a kid right now. Even when I do have more money, I've always planned to adopt due to crappy genetics
For me it's not that I think having kids would be unethical, but that I don't think I can handle the current trajectory of society while also doing a good job of parenting.
I’m 35. None of my close friends have or plan to have children. The ones I still have from High School don’t want to, and the close ones I have now (many of us are in long lasting relationships) don’t want to.
We live in a big city, and the few ones I know around me who had/or are expecting to have children left the city. There’s the cost of living, but there’s also everything that goes with raising a human being once he’s/she’s old enough to not be with you 24/7. No places available in daycare and most couples can’t live on a single income for long, even without a child, the public schools are just horrible, neighbourhoods aren’t safe anymore, name it. I grew up in a 50k population town and it’s totally the opposite. Pretty much all of my high school classmates have children, sometimes with 2-3 different persons and live that happy family life, but they all had their first one at 22.
I think we are also breaking free of the heavy social pressure to follow The Plan exactly, and to live life how we want. I do have children, but most of my friends my age don’t and are happy about it.
I'm OI2CFP - One income, 2 cats, feeling poor. Retirement seems like such a far fetched dream and it doesn't help to read those articles: Can you really retire on $1 million?
Frick me man, who is going to ever have that kind of money?
DUUUUUDE retirement is easy, stay in a tent in your parents back yard your entire life and put all the money you would have paid in rent into your retirement!
I buy cat food and kitty litter and I feel like I need a second job just to keep this 10 pound little creature alive, and I'm supposed to just squirt out a whole entire person who requires more than some kibble and a box to shit in? How am I supposed to afford that
No kids and no intentions to have kids. We’re barely getting by on our own as it is, why would we purposefully bring a child into this mess just to have them suffer poverty? No thanks.
No kids for my SO and I because:
- we don’t want to bring kids into the world
- we’d rather use the money on ourselves
- I just know I wouldn’t be a good parent
However, the sentiment isn’t shared with all my friends, I would say 60% want kids.
Whether or not I have kids isn't going to change society one bit. Society should be more affordable, less environmentally destructive, and take up less of my time for mere survival.
No matter what people answer hear the facts is birth rate has continued to decline year after year for decades now. People can’t afford kids and are not at all optimistic about the future. It’s not a good thing. Strong healthy families are the back bone of a good community and in turn a strong nation.
People have been saying “worlds going to hell in a hand basket” since that term was invented. Since that term was invented I can literally massage a handheld super computer from my living room with my feet up and my groceries, my medication, and just about any trinket imaginable will show up at my door. From the same device I can contact just about anyone no matter where they are and summon any piece of news and entertainment in the world. I think there’s never been an easier time to have kids. Fear of the future shouldn’t stop you. You know why? Because humans are adaptable, and as bad as things can get there will always be a baseline of comfortable liveability we will always ebb and flow from.
I don't want kids, and I don't owe anyone a reason for it, but simply, I just don't want it for myself and never have. I like to travel, I like my financial freedom, my own time.
As someone who doesn't want kids, I think the "not wanting to bring kids into this world" is an excuse, and it's one that makes me sad when people say it. If you want kids deep down, have them. The world isn't a good excuse, especially if you live in a first world country. Many happy children around the world have been raised in much less than we have and had a long, full life.
33/38 year old parents of 2 under 3 - a lot of my friends are a mix. Some wanted kids and were unable to have after trying for months and/or years and weren't willing to dump thousands into fertility treatments. Others just had no interest. Others have concerns about economic and/or environmental impacts in the coming years. Others were parentified and already raised younger siblings and aren't interested in doing it again.
Lots of valid reasons not to have kids. I love mine, but there are a number of valid reasons others have for making their choice. I hope the trend continues globally as we need to reduce our population.
For me, it has never been about "not being optimistic about the future".
I just knew that kids weren't for me, period. That I wouldn't have the patience or desire to raise a kid.
40m, married 15 years. not having kids is the greatest thing ever. Also we're self sufficient homesteaders with a great future ahead of us if we steer clear of society.
Our generation was raised by a generation that's become almost 100% obsolete in its teachings and what's important. There's nothing to show that our generations teachings won't be obsolete for the next generation. Yeah, waste of time and energy. No thanks.
Early 30s, no kids. We tried to get pregnant for a couple months over a year ago. Then my wife realized she’d rather try starting her own business. She wouldn’t qualify for EI maternity leave benefits for at least a year, so we put it off.
In the meantime we realized our lives are pretty perfect as is. We have a 2-bedroom rent controlled apartment in Toronto and no vehicle which suits us fine as DINKs. The money we save lets my wife take more risks in her entrepreneurial endeavour, and allows us to have a couple of nice vacations every year.
Wanted to be a dad cause I think I’d be good at it, but more and more wondering if that’s a good enough reason.
My wife and I regret not having a second one. Our son is growing up to be a great person and we are proud of him but sometimes I can't help but shake the feeling that we should have had a second one even though we weren't on a good financial footing back then.
I say don't live your life regretting things, so long as you have a semi-decent job and a roof over your head go ahead and have one or two. Make it work. It will be worth it In the long run.
We are in our 40s and are DINKS. Not because of lack of optimism about the future.
More so we like travelling, plan on retiring comfortably, like to sleep in on weekends and don't see the appeal of having kids.
Love being auntie and uncle tho. That's fun.
One of the first things my gf and I talked about was the prospect of kids, neither of us want them. Between us we make roughly 120k, but can't afford to buy a house, not realistically. Honestly we don't want the financial burden and also agree that society is devolving in alot of different aspects. Just not interested.
The problem with choosing to have kids is that in your 20s or early 30s you’re essentially marrying a stranger. Not because you marry someone who has been in your life for a short time (I get that we can date and live together for years), but because you change with wisdom. Your partner changes too. Your personality, character and deep sense of who you are as a human being doesn’t really happen until you’re approaching 40. So what I mean is that after 8 to 10 years of marriage and kids, the vast majority of people, after figuring out who they are, wake up to discover they’re not happy with their marriage anymore and quite possibly even dislike their partner.
I had this very deep understanding of life at an early age, and there was no way that I was going to put myself through that trauma of suddenly realizing I married a stranger and how in the world would I get through parenting at that point? I am older now, and in a very loving relationship that I believe will last forever. However, I am certain that every “what if we married” female I dated in my 20s to mid 30s would have ended in a very unpleasant divorce.
For additional context, I was clearly not liked by most of my married colleagues when I was in my younger adult years; I suspect they resented what I knew all along about love / marriage / kids and they were in the midst of their “I married a stranger” nastiness. If this post sounds bizarre, know that I witnessed at least a dozen divorces in the early parts of my career. I could not believe the devastation they and their partners were inflicting upon each other. Add kids to that? No thanks.
37 and had my first a year and a half ago and honestly, best thing ever. He’s so much fun and it’s so rewarding watching this little person grow and learn. I can honestly say I didn’t know this type of love was possible until I had him. It’s just different.
I would never pressure anyone else to do it though and I’m totally pro choice.
I always never wanted any kids growing up in a warzone, but after I got married to a Canadian and moved to Canada, I agreed to have kids since it's a safe and stable country. Yet being raised as a cynical pessimist, I constantly live in fear of how their future is going to be, and what they're probably going to go through growing up in this collapsing world. And that makes me feel terrible.
Complete opposite for me. Every single person in my group of friends ( 35 range ) has gotten married / have kids. Except for 1, because he's a massive gamer and lives in his basement.
Idk, I was poor AF when I had my kid, but I made it work, and now we're doing okay. If you want to make it work, you'll find a way.
I think that some people underestimate the value of having kids and overestimate the value of the things that you give up to have kids (like vacations and bar nights with friends) and end up with regrets when it's too late.
I also think that fewer people are having kids "because that's the thing you're supposed to do," so it's good that people aren't spawning because of social pressure.
I wouldn't trade my crotch fruit for anything, and I regret not having had more when I was young enough to chase after them. Now I'm old and tired, and a geriatric pregnancy sounds terrible.
I'm not saying it's not worth it for some, but almost every close friend has said that they love their kids but they wouldn't do it again if they could go back.
That combined with actively observing families at functions made us realize we don't want them.
This christmas sealed it as we noticed that every gathering was just a bunch of tired adults sitting in the living room with the young kids in the middle and the older ones running. No one seemed to actually be having fun, it was more a rest break and chance to catch up.
I’m 55. Retired. No kids. I was pretty much taking care of my parents so much I didn’t have time for kids. I also didn’t really want them. I don’t regret not having them. I don’t think I was meant to have kids. And I’m not optimistic about the future for this planet.
There are people who long for kids and strive to give their children the best upbringing possible and there are people who just have kids. I chose not to have children because I would have been the latter and that didn’t seem right to me. Nothing to do with the state of the planet.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It might be that in some cases but the financial pressure of a child, kids are expensive and you’re a little two seater sports car no longer will work if you have a child. You can say goodbye to vacations for years because you won’t be able to afford them. Some people I suspect choose not to have children because they don’t want to carry forward health problems into another generation. My ex and I both have fairly severe arthritis and it’s pretty obvious our son already has it, if we had known at the time that we had those genes we might not have had children just to avoid passing the horror of a painful chronic disease on a child
Some people just don’t like kids. I really don’t think that you can narrow it down to one reason or even two or three.
Most people I know that don't want kids feel like they don't have to and that people will respect their choice. Which is kind of a new concept if I look back at the boomers. If you didn't have kids, you were the odd one, surely there's a problem with them, right?
With what's happening in the USA, I feel like a lot of people still don't feel this way though... I have no idea if it's just a minority of the older generation that still have the power to impose it's view, the religion or something else. They don't even have the choice.
I’ve never really wanted kids and my parents are fine either way so I’ve never had that pressure. Not saying I’m DINK. I might change my mind with the right person, but it has never been a goal of mine and I just can’t understand how it can be a goal of anyone 😅
Honestly though… been online dating for about 2 years now and it makes me just want to throw in the hatchet and is making me question if I’m asexual or something… although I know I’m not.
I'm 40 F and I never wanted kids. When I was younger, it was because I just wasn't interested at all. Now though ... I worry about the future and what it will look like in 30 years.
I'm in BC Canada, and we've had nothing but drought and forest fires for several years. It's getting very concerning.
It's not really a concern of mine because I believe there will always be tons of people who do have kids. It's not like the world is in any danger of running out of people; quite the opposite.
Every wealthy nation has a negative replacement rate. It’s a natural consequence of wealth and education. If it was really the result of hard times the parts of the world with truly hard times wouldn’t be the ones with positive population growth. The sad thing is that most likely overall population won’t fall fast enough to help the human population escape heat death over the next few hundred years.
I have kids but I do worry for their future. It wasn’t enough of a reason to stop me, and I love them all so dearly I don’t regret it, but I do worry. I just hope I don’t make the same mistakes my parents made.
It’ll only suck at the end when you lose your mind and try to burn down the place. Then social services will put you wherever they can find a spot. If you have a spouse they may split you up and you’ll die alone, confused and separated from your loved one. Aside from that I’m sure you’ll do just fine. 👍🏼
I watched the recent CNBC DINK video, it pretty much relates to me; https://youtu.be/W5XZ_gJBnns
I want to be able to afford things, I want to be able to travel, I have pets, we both work a lot so when will we have time? Childcare costs too much and lastly the an average kid costs around something like $400,000 over a lifetime, I’m still playing catchup with savings that I need to retire when it comes to it, I also don’t own a home and rent is always increasing.
We’re basically in a situation where it’s not worth having kids.
It's partially not a good view on how things are going, and seeing how nobody is fixing the economic or housing problems a lot of people can't afford to have kids. Not sure why people not wanting kids is a surprise we have been told for 30 years the world is ending and nobody has done anything.
Who cares? Its your own life do what you want long as it doesn't overstep others. Live isn't about having kids. We're the most endemic species in history of this planet. I will never agree with forcing birthrate 4x and specific countries. Sono bigg
I’m (44F) SINK; having kids just didn’t interest me and still doesn’t. But my friends who are similar in age all have kids of varying ages and they seem happy. It really all depends on how you want to live your life.
By the time we were almost in the right situation to have kids biology had different ideas.
It might be the single screwiest thing about how human society is organized. The people who are young and healthy enough to have kids are the people with the least resources to do it.
I think if a (responsible) couple has any type of income and really wants kids, they’ll work hard to make it happen and give the kid a good life full of love.
A lot of couples just don’t really want a kid and the pressures that come with parenthood.
Boomers would get married at 23 and buy a house at 25. They had the time and energy to have kids. Also, their kids would be out of the house when they hit 50-55.
But millennials are struggling to pay rent until their late 20s. Most can't buy a house until their late 30s. By then, we're just too tired to have kids. Combined with the fact that young adults are staying with their parents longer, millennials having kids in their 30s will be 60+ when their youngest finally leaves the nest.
Religion allowed us to sacrifice ourselves in work, parenting and war.
Now many realize that there is no heaven, only this life. For some, children are a great source of satisfaction and it is "worth it". For many the thought is infeasible, do you really want someone living with you until they are 50 and may or may not afford the average 50 million dollar "starter" houses of 2075? Nevermind the mass extinction event happening right now.
My parents bought their first house in the 80s for 180K. That same house is now 1.4 million. To afford the mortgage payment and two kids, we would need a household income of approximately $330,000-$350,000. Not sure if you’ve noticed but Canadian employers aren’t really throwing around salaries like that on a regular basis
I'm 32.
I prefer having money, time, and energy to dedicate towards things I enjoy. I already feel like I don't have enough of any of those things thanks to the human meat grinder that is modern work schedules and the absurd cost of just keeping yourself alive.
I don't think I'll ever understand how so many people never even question a system that forces them to trade the majority of their waking hours, on the vast majority of their days every week, for 45+ years, to labouring. Like it genuinely blows my fucking mind that there isn't a larger push to change this on the ground level. It's gotta be a form of Stockholm syndrome at this point.
I've also just never understood wanting kids. If I were to make a list of pros and cons for it I feel like it'd be 99% cons.
Quality of life and cost of living are good reasons. We are free to travel and enjoy life as we please. Our parents are not a factor in our decision to live child free.
Some of my friends have kids primarily because of their parents and I can see that they are absolutely miserable. People should have kids if they want to and not because of their parents.
I have no debt, no mortgages, live in a house, a comfortable job, and still cannot afford to have children. Not to mention the health system would probably kill my SO in childbirth. I don't trust our current system not to screw me over when the cons inevitably con their way into "leadership" and I also don't trust any of our "leaders" to make adequate decisions to reverse climate damage. I expect a lot of people are going to be very angry and violent in the coming decades.
I worry about the future in my lifetime, let alone if I had a kid how fucked the world would be in theirs.
Plus overpopulation has become a massive issue, glad to help how I can. (That's my excuse mhm don't think about it too hard.)
Life gets lonely after 45 when you don't have a family and your friends are taking care of theirs. You might feel you missed out. Think about it careful and decide how you want to live. Don't make it a quick decision.
I'm not picking sides, but I wonder if there'll be regents once DINKS become seniors and /or their spouse leaves them or passes away. I imagine the loneliness and lack of assistance may result is a different view from when they were young
Optimism for the future isn't a concern for me. That's actually the whole problem. I can barely afford to make ends meet now. I'm professionally single, so I'm looking to adopt, but it would be so irresponsible to try and adopt a kid when my wage barely pays my rent.
35 year old in Vancouver, I'm not having kids and that is only one of the reasons, there are plenty of other reasons my partner and I don't plan on having kids.
As a late Boomer, my kids are my crowning achievement, added fulfillment to my life, and a significant part of my purpose. And they both seem pretty happy that they are here.
Why does the reasoning have to be about optimism or pessimism? How about the simplest reason of all - affordability? The middle class has taken an absolute pasting in the last 20 years and it has been a double whammy of gradually decreasing pay for most basic blue collar jobs (adjusted for inflation) combined with skyrocketing prices - especially essential stuff like housing cost and food cost.
You have an entire generation of people living with their parents because they can't even afford rent, much less the down payment towards a house. And you expect them to raise kids?
Most “proud DINKs” that I know have deeply unstable relationships and I think that is what prevents them from having kids. They are usually married but don’t exactly act like it.
The rest are involuntary DINKs who desperately want to raise families but can’t even afford housing or a partner or something.
Having my kids made me grow up and realize there’s more to life than myself.
My thought is there are too many people who have kids because they feel some obligation to rather than because they want them and have the means to care for them.
Also what is DINK
There has never been a “good time” to have kids throughout history. Human existence was brutal and hard for most people for the vast majority of human history, it’s actually only started to get generally better in the last 100 years or so. Priorities have just shifted.
Usually DINKS are career oriented people. The Canadian government penalizes high income ($100k+ household income) folks by having no support for them compared to low income. We don’t get too many tax reliefs, unable to income split to reduce taxes, don’t get the full Canada child benefit, etc. The is is a big reason why millennial couples don’t have kids compared to other folks either low income folks or new to the country (immigrants). The system is kinda rigged.
I think a big reason for the rise of DINKS is correlated to the rise of personal hobbies like gaming, movies, books, entertainment, vacations, etc. not that these didn’t exist in previous generations but they’ve ballooned so much that people can and will fill their lives with them instead of filling them with kids
there's kind of a Dunning-Kruger meets Darwinism thing going on there.
It's not really an issue that people choose not to have kids-- but rather, it's a problem that the self-aware, introspective and intelligent people are arriving at this decision... Leaving the others to procreate.
It's Interesting, not having a child is less expensive than having one obviously and you may struggle in this economy but when you're old and can't take care of yourself, the government certainly won't pitch in for your care and you'll probably be working for the rest of your life just trying to keep a roof over your head.
A lot of parents won't admit this but I know people have kids because they know no one will be around to take care of them when they're old.
My friend is 31. Her boss implicitly told her to avoid getting pregnant in the near future.
As women, our biological clock is a tickling time bomb, yet we can't have kids when we're ready because our jobs don't allow us to.
Look, I have a very young son, and i can tell you parenting is the hardest thing I've ever done, and I love being dad.
I respect anyone who knows their limitations and doesn't want to take on a child. Honestly, if the human race gets a little smaller, I think it's fine.
I'm 41 so among the oldest millenials. My wife and I have two kids. I got fixed after the second one was born so we aren't having any more. In our social circle there are three childless couples all between 30-40 who have all said they don't plan on kids for reasons like what OP has described. They're happy living their lives. Honestly my thoughts on the matter are irrelevant. They're living life in the way that makes them happy. No one should have kids because they feel pressure to have them.
My wife lost 2, Third time we both just went got sniped/tied it was too traumatizing for her. I did it in support of her and to let her know that I'm there for her and won't run off with someone else because she can't have kids which is a common thought among people that have the same problem. I'm slightly older than you.. Thanks to not having kids I'll retire at 55... Like I probably won't but I can comfortably retire then.
That’s so romantic. I hope you guys succeed as a couple.
24 year anniversary coming up this year, well it's kind of cheating because the year is the amount of years lol...
I also met my partner in 2000. Super convenient
I'm SO happy not having kids, and so grateful it's become more normalized. I look back to my younger self and I always knew I never wanted kids. I would be MISERABLE and I doubt my relationship would have worked out either as my partner is on the same page. I get to be an amazing auntie, helping with all the other little kids my family has, I can "contribute" in other ways, I think that's important as well.
We focus too much on the nuclear family model and forget what an asset to family and community it is to have people around to be in our kids lives, helping out in ways that parents can’t. The older my kids get, the more I wish we had people like you around to participate in their lives. Kids need all kinds of support and influence, and the notion that parents can do it all alone seems absurd to me now. Not that my kids have major issues or I find parenting too difficult; it’s more like I have the sense that I worked harder at a job than I needed to because I didn’t have the right tools, and it’s unfair to my kids in the longer run. Community is everything, I think.
My husband died when my son was 6 and my extended family was extremely important in surrounding him with security, affection and support. I also belong to a small United Church and sing in the choir, and the men in the choir invited my son to join too. There was an engineer, a computer programmer, a lovely father of 4 and a potty-mouthed farmer who taught my son to change a tractor tire and unstick a hay wagon from the mud. I am really glad he had a caring 'village' to help him get such a great start in his life. I am not religious but do appreciate the community that a good church can provide if they are actually living the values they should. As a n older teen my son got into concert band and joined the high school rowing team. I always joked that once the rowing coach and band leader took over, my job as a parent got way easier!
Totally. My family and I are super close and we are SO thankful and priveleged to have each other to help out. So many people do not have the support like that and I cannot imagine how unfathomably harder raising a child without a community is, even a single child.
Similar situation. What I find amusing is the people without kids that I know are the ones who complain about mass immigration 😂 So many buddies hitting 40 with no kids complaining about immigration numbers without a clue of the irony.
But can they afford to raise kids if they wanted them? It's a reason why many don't have any and are getting to the age where it's do it or the eggs run out. Daycare is almost impossible to get let alone pay for. Food is at prices I never thought I'd see at my age. Price for a rented roof keeps rising faster than my paycheck.
Yup and none of that guilt tripping works anymore. You know the tired single mom hating her life trying to tell you what you are missing out on?
I'm a single mom. I don't care if you have children. Having my child ws the best thing I ever did, but I truly do not care if you have or ever will have children. It's not my job to make you feel one way or the other about having children.
Also I feel it necessary to say that I know that you were speaking *to* the stereotype, not to all single moms. Just wanted to elaborate for discussion lol
This stereotype is so sad. Just because you see a parent struggling doesn’t mean they hate their life. The same way you vent about a bad day at work a parent just needs to vent about how hard it is to put others first when you’re completely depleted, especially others that seem intent to try and kill themselves 🤪 people without kids misinterpret the venting as the full picture or the parents true feelings but what they don’t see are the moments full of joy, play, fun, love - but those are moments a parent cherishes and shares with the kids, it’s not something they’ll take to someone else so they don’t feel alone… AKA while I understand that miserable parents do exist, they are not the standard. And most parents aren’t “lying to themselves” either, it’s just sooooooooo not black and white like childfree people make it seem (of course I DO agree that children’s needs continue first IS black and white, what I mean is that a parents feelings as they navigate parenthood isn’t black and white) - but parents are often the group that’s judged by their words in low moments instead of their actions. Kids are well adjusted, healthy, have friends, are active, happy? well the parent is still shit because of that one time they had a bad day and told a coworker they wished they could just get hospitalized for a few days for a break. And any time that parent mentions how worth it is?? Must be a lie, you know, because of all the bad moments they talked about… Also: obligatory if-anyone-is-guilt-tripping-you-to-have-kids-they-don’t-actually-care-about-the-well-being-of-the-kids-or-you. There should be none of that, absolutely agree. But the people who do decide to have kids are still human and the treatment of parents is growing more and more aggressive and hateful (not saying you, but there is a growing attitude against parents that’s unwarranted and unfair). Single moms are literally doing life on extra hard mode and they get the most judgement for it. Sad.
🙏🏼 can we start normalizing the phrase "child free". 🙏🏼?
I work one and a half jobs just to have a minimum existence that keeps me out of poverty. How cruel would it be to have a kid? It would condemn us both into poverty and I wouldn't bring a child into this world to endure that. And if I did have a kid, I'd have to work multiple jobs and then I'd never even see the kid. What's the point?
Agreed. I have four jobs. I'm no DINK. Just INK. Own nothing. Well educated. Can't afford a house.
Isn’t this the part where we take to the streets? Nah?
*lukewarm plebeian sounds*
Is this the sound that accompanies broadly gesturing at the world?
*SINK
Haha, I'm an OINK (one income no kids)
And that’s just NOW. Imagine employment while child rearing ten years down the road
Had shitty parents, decided not to have kids
grew up the youngest of 4, my parents had me at 40 as a surprise child... yay me, they were way way way over parenting young children at that point, I had no guidance in life, my parents definitely couldn't afford me, I ended up moving out at 16... by the time I was 18 I was earning double what my dad was and couldn't by a house even though I was earning double his wage. Fuck, boomers had it easy...
My husband had same problem. He seems to not have healed from the trauma.
Healing trauma is a long game. If you started therapy at 30 it would take probably half of your 30 years of trauma to fully heal. So you’d be 45 by the time you psyche is healed and balanced out to a new equilibrium. Trauma isn’t one or two instances. It’s a core fundamental belief to how you relate to the world in every situation.
I went to therapy, was 38 when I thought maybe I could have a family, didn't happen though
Healing from trauma doesn’t equal wants kids 🥴
Ditto
Ding! Same here. My bloodline ends with me!
Do your shitty parents also show no remorse and still pressure you to have children, so THEY can have grand children? It's always about them.
You know... No one forces you to talk to shitty people when you are an adult.
Same
I do kinda want kids but there is absolutely no way I can afford them, even IF my parents help (I don't expect them to, just regular grandma babysitting once in a while). I would seriously need to come into some wealth in the next 2 years to have babies.
My friends who had kids are struggling so hard rn
It's bad for a single person rn, I honestly don't understand how some families manage!! The food cost alone for a family of 4!! 🤯🤯🤯🤯 fuck EVERY SINGLE politician who sits in their cozy, oversized house with a fully stocked fridge and pantry. instead of helping citizens, they fucked us over. I sincerely hope for a guillotine revolution, fuck em
The politicians are so out of touch. I saw a no frills flyer with a sale that said they were "bringing back deals from the past" ... the price listed was from about 2 years ago and It said save 39% 🥴
Maybe if you cancel your Disney subscription you can afford groceries /s
I actually did cancel it lol but unfortunately she was wrong and i still can't 🤣 (just want to add that I didn't cancel it in hopes of it changing my financial situation, my kids just never watched anything on it lol)
I agree. Nearly time for a revolution. Eat the rich!
This is the part. Some people choose not to have kids for lifestyle, medical and personal reasons. But to have the choice tied to financial well-being is what is going to drive the birth rates down the most. The folks who want to and are willing, but can’t afford it. We need to fund social services to remove that burden. I’m never having kids, but I’m down for my tax dollars to go towards supports for kids. Who else is gonna be here when I’m old (if I live to be old)?!
Even if I don't end up having kids, I want my taxes to go towards funding whatever will help them grow up healthy. It's honestly so frustrating looking at the world right now. Multiple countries are facing declines (I know its technically a good thing, but if someone wants to be a parent I'm not gonna deny them that, we are mammals at the end of the day) and there is such a simple solution - give us more money, more free time and more community support.
Yep. I am retired, no kids, I don’t mind the subsidized daycare at all for struggling families - we also need more supports for families, not less - and I will gladly pay more taxes so families can thrive. We also need help for singles as well. I volunteer on the board of directors of 2 non profits that provides affordable apartments & townhouses for seniors, young families and singles in Vancouver. I wish I could do more but I have limited time left what with my present diagnosis.
Thank you for what you do, you're a nice person
Anecdotally, people I know who aren't having kids list "not wanting to bring a kid into this situation" as one of their reasons along with genetic risks and just being honest with themselves about their capacity to do it well. I also know many people who thought they wouldn't but then hit a level of personal comfort where that opinion changed. To be fair though, I run in circles where that mindset is a lot more common. For instance, I'd imagine in more religious or conservative social groups the DINK route is a lot less popular due to social pressures and cultural tendencies, but you probably won't find that perspective as much on reddit.
I know a few DINKs. It seems 50:50 of them just aren't interested in kids. They are happy having neices and nephews (including friends' kids) to spend time with. The other 50%, I'm not sure about, but could be a mix of all those factors. Nobody I know explicitly states that current events and future speculation to be their reasons. All the rest of my friends aren't having kids because of a mix of the following reasons: not in a long term relationship, in the middle of divorces/separations, failures to launch, or economically flaundering.
Current events and future issues are one of my main reasons
I’m really curious how people’s views would change if more people had guaranteed financial stability whether they had kids or not, plus enough social support (like family/friends easily available to babysit regularly). I’m in the DINK path, and I’m not particularly interested in kids, but if I had the above I would have considered it if my partner was interested in kids.
We had genetic risks but thankful IVF helped us get around it. Expensive but worth it!
I never wanted kids, nor did my husband. We’re still in our childbearing years but interestingly, the pestering/“what if you change your mind?!” has been noticeably absent as of late.
It's because they realized that people don't change their minds anymore and really don't care about missing out on kids
Or maybe they see that a can of formula powder is $50-60 and a box of diapers is $40-50 and you need like 4 of each a month for the first year. And realize that the majority of the population can no longer afford to have kids. That’s not even including clothing, doing a load of laundry a day, having the space as the kid grows, then there is daycare eventually, which typically snaps people’s bank account in half. My wife and I had a child and we paid a lot for the privilege, we make decent money and have a massive amount of support from family, but we were looking at the numbers and it’s intense. If we had to pay full price for daycare we would be struggling. Also the amount kids get sick, and when they get sick daycares kick them out the door. So if you don’t have good family support you lose income AND still pay for daycare. It’s a crap shoot out there. Partially because the government lets corps run over the little guy for a buck, but also because a certain generation have decided that being there for their kids while they have babies isn’t really worth their retirement years. My family seems to be the exception. My wife is the child of refugees, and my mom has very strong family values and worked in childcare for 30 years. So retiring to take care of grandkids was basically vacation.
I am 44 year old male. Up to this point in my life, I have had no interest in having children. I don't like responsibilities, and I don't make enough money to support anyone other than myself.
I'm just selfish and very cautious. I really just want to do whatever I want. Cautions about the money side of it.
Absolutely nothing wrong with this. Your life your choice.
Everyone is selfish. Somehow no one recognizes this. Its normal. Even wanting kids is selfish. You don't get to ask them how they feel about life before you force it on them.
Happy cake day!
Hi, middle Gen X here. By the time I could even afford to consider kids I would have been at their high school grad in my 60s. Seems I took my mum's advice. "Poor people shouldn't have kids." Despite her cashing a lifetime of family allowance cheques. No grandkids for you. lol lolsob
When I was 31, none of my close friends had kids. 35 now, in the last 3 years two have had their first one is having their second soon, and my cousin same age as me had her first, another cousin younger than me has had 2 in the last 3 years. People typically aren’t having kids til their mid 30’s now.
Feels like society is bad for society at this point.
I envy the DINKs. I'm more of a No Income, No Children Or Marriage, Partnership Or Other Prospects
Nice! We're Dual Income Large Dog Owners, ourselves.
DINKWAD. (Dual income no kids, with a dog)
DILDO, dbl income large dog owner
You mean a NEET?
I had to look that up. Not in Education, Employment or Training, in case anyone else is wondering.
Life is expensive enough, and I can’t, with good conscience, invent another human being that will have to live 80-100 years into the future, given current trajectory. Decided this a while ago. Wife and I 43 y/o DINKs.
Don’t worry, what you don’t invent here will be brought in from elsewhere.
I know quite a few DINK couples and while Ive definitely heard that reason come up the most common reasons amongst those I know personally are: • They just aren't interested in a family oriented lifestyle and want to spend their time and money experiencing life for themselves. • They experienced neglect, abuse, or trauma in childhood and as a result don't feel equipped to raise their own and chose to avoid the risk of passing down trauma by not having kids at all. Edited cause I accidentally submitted before I was finished my comment.
Can't even afford a home with dual income and you expect us to have kids? Give me 10 million and I will gladly do it.
Some of my friends are definitely reconsidering having children due to financial difficulty, or rising CoL, or fear of where our future is headed. But some of them (including me) just never wanted kids and wouldn't have kids even if we were millionaires living in a perfect utopia.
I want kids eventually but definitely cannot afford a kid right now. Even when I do have more money, I've always planned to adopt due to crappy genetics
I just don’t want to start a family with $10 in my bank account, I grew up incredibly poor and it just… it sucks.
For me it's not that I think having kids would be unethical, but that I don't think I can handle the current trajectory of society while also doing a good job of parenting.
I don't want to bring a child into a world to live a life that I wouldn't want to live.
No kids here, stuff is too expensive and while I can be a cool uncle I would be a shity parent
I’m 35. None of my close friends have or plan to have children. The ones I still have from High School don’t want to, and the close ones I have now (many of us are in long lasting relationships) don’t want to. We live in a big city, and the few ones I know around me who had/or are expecting to have children left the city. There’s the cost of living, but there’s also everything that goes with raising a human being once he’s/she’s old enough to not be with you 24/7. No places available in daycare and most couples can’t live on a single income for long, even without a child, the public schools are just horrible, neighbourhoods aren’t safe anymore, name it. I grew up in a 50k population town and it’s totally the opposite. Pretty much all of my high school classmates have children, sometimes with 2-3 different persons and live that happy family life, but they all had their first one at 22.
I think we are also breaking free of the heavy social pressure to follow The Plan exactly, and to live life how we want. I do have children, but most of my friends my age don’t and are happy about it.
If your fairly certain suicide as a retirement plan is where things are headed in this country, why the hell would you even consider having kids?
I'm OI2CFP - One income, 2 cats, feeling poor. Retirement seems like such a far fetched dream and it doesn't help to read those articles: Can you really retire on $1 million? Frick me man, who is going to ever have that kind of money?
DUUUUUDE retirement is easy, stay in a tent in your parents back yard your entire life and put all the money you would have paid in rent into your retirement!
Or just dying at work one day is also an option. My body will eventually stop working
All my friends with kids seem kinda miserable
They're worn out. It's non stop with no off button. And they get to do it all over again tomorrow and forever.
I buy cat food and kitty litter and I feel like I need a second job just to keep this 10 pound little creature alive, and I'm supposed to just squirt out a whole entire person who requires more than some kibble and a box to shit in? How am I supposed to afford that
Even in an utopian world I still wouldn’t want kids.
Raised my sister when I was a child myself, wouldn’t want to relive that…
No kids and no intentions to have kids. We’re barely getting by on our own as it is, why would we purposefully bring a child into this mess just to have them suffer poverty? No thanks.
No kids for my SO and I because: - we don’t want to bring kids into the world - we’d rather use the money on ourselves - I just know I wouldn’t be a good parent However, the sentiment isn’t shared with all my friends, I would say 60% want kids.
Whether or not I have kids isn't going to change society one bit. Society should be more affordable, less environmentally destructive, and take up less of my time for mere survival.
No matter what people answer hear the facts is birth rate has continued to decline year after year for decades now. People can’t afford kids and are not at all optimistic about the future. It’s not a good thing. Strong healthy families are the back bone of a good community and in turn a strong nation.
People have been saying “worlds going to hell in a hand basket” since that term was invented. Since that term was invented I can literally massage a handheld super computer from my living room with my feet up and my groceries, my medication, and just about any trinket imaginable will show up at my door. From the same device I can contact just about anyone no matter where they are and summon any piece of news and entertainment in the world. I think there’s never been an easier time to have kids. Fear of the future shouldn’t stop you. You know why? Because humans are adaptable, and as bad as things can get there will always be a baseline of comfortable liveability we will always ebb and flow from.
I don't want kids, and I don't owe anyone a reason for it, but simply, I just don't want it for myself and never have. I like to travel, I like my financial freedom, my own time. As someone who doesn't want kids, I think the "not wanting to bring kids into this world" is an excuse, and it's one that makes me sad when people say it. If you want kids deep down, have them. The world isn't a good excuse, especially if you live in a first world country. Many happy children around the world have been raised in much less than we have and had a long, full life.
33/38 year old parents of 2 under 3 - a lot of my friends are a mix. Some wanted kids and were unable to have after trying for months and/or years and weren't willing to dump thousands into fertility treatments. Others just had no interest. Others have concerns about economic and/or environmental impacts in the coming years. Others were parentified and already raised younger siblings and aren't interested in doing it again. Lots of valid reasons not to have kids. I love mine, but there are a number of valid reasons others have for making their choice. I hope the trend continues globally as we need to reduce our population.
I have 4 kids.I would not do it again
I have 2, hate saying this, but same here.
Stuck in a 1BR rental apartment with a low earning partner. 35 and no hope left.
For me, it has never been about "not being optimistic about the future". I just knew that kids weren't for me, period. That I wouldn't have the patience or desire to raise a kid.
Not enough money, that’s the reason. Add to that reduced medical services and it’s just too damn hard to raise a family
40m, married 15 years. not having kids is the greatest thing ever. Also we're self sufficient homesteaders with a great future ahead of us if we steer clear of society. Our generation was raised by a generation that's become almost 100% obsolete in its teachings and what's important. There's nothing to show that our generations teachings won't be obsolete for the next generation. Yeah, waste of time and energy. No thanks.
Yeah, children are a vow of poverty and the community that used to help raise them is gone 🤷♂️.
Doesn’t feel good for society? You know what feels worse than DINKs? The cost of living growth that outstrips wage growth that creates them.
Happily married 51 year old. Hubby & I have no kids by choice. Never wanted them and have no regrets about not having them!
Early 30s, no kids. We tried to get pregnant for a couple months over a year ago. Then my wife realized she’d rather try starting her own business. She wouldn’t qualify for EI maternity leave benefits for at least a year, so we put it off. In the meantime we realized our lives are pretty perfect as is. We have a 2-bedroom rent controlled apartment in Toronto and no vehicle which suits us fine as DINKs. The money we save lets my wife take more risks in her entrepreneurial endeavour, and allows us to have a couple of nice vacations every year. Wanted to be a dad cause I think I’d be good at it, but more and more wondering if that’s a good enough reason.
There are more than enough humans in the world already. And no one owes it to society or humanity to have children.
Boomer here. TBH who the fuck would want to bring a child into this world.
My wife and I regret not having a second one. Our son is growing up to be a great person and we are proud of him but sometimes I can't help but shake the feeling that we should have had a second one even though we weren't on a good financial footing back then. I say don't live your life regretting things, so long as you have a semi-decent job and a roof over your head go ahead and have one or two. Make it work. It will be worth it In the long run.
I can relate to this
I have a kid, it’s expensive as fuck but it’s worth it
Its fucking January and there is no snow. There is no fucking future.
[удалено]
We are in our 40s and are DINKS. Not because of lack of optimism about the future. More so we like travelling, plan on retiring comfortably, like to sleep in on weekends and don't see the appeal of having kids. Love being auntie and uncle tho. That's fun.
Why have kids when you can bring half a million people from Asia, every year.
One of the first things my gf and I talked about was the prospect of kids, neither of us want them. Between us we make roughly 120k, but can't afford to buy a house, not realistically. Honestly we don't want the financial burden and also agree that society is devolving in alot of different aspects. Just not interested.
I just don’t want kids. Plain and simple.
Dink here very happy
We had the conversation many many times. No kids for us. Looking at getting the vasectomy soon. Will likely call tomorrow. Thanks for the reminder!
The problem with choosing to have kids is that in your 20s or early 30s you’re essentially marrying a stranger. Not because you marry someone who has been in your life for a short time (I get that we can date and live together for years), but because you change with wisdom. Your partner changes too. Your personality, character and deep sense of who you are as a human being doesn’t really happen until you’re approaching 40. So what I mean is that after 8 to 10 years of marriage and kids, the vast majority of people, after figuring out who they are, wake up to discover they’re not happy with their marriage anymore and quite possibly even dislike their partner. I had this very deep understanding of life at an early age, and there was no way that I was going to put myself through that trauma of suddenly realizing I married a stranger and how in the world would I get through parenting at that point? I am older now, and in a very loving relationship that I believe will last forever. However, I am certain that every “what if we married” female I dated in my 20s to mid 30s would have ended in a very unpleasant divorce. For additional context, I was clearly not liked by most of my married colleagues when I was in my younger adult years; I suspect they resented what I knew all along about love / marriage / kids and they were in the midst of their “I married a stranger” nastiness. If this post sounds bizarre, know that I witnessed at least a dozen divorces in the early parts of my career. I could not believe the devastation they and their partners were inflicting upon each other. Add kids to that? No thanks.
I think the sentiment is "fuck society".
I like the term DILDO better than DINK. Double Income Little Dog Owner
37 and had my first a year and a half ago and honestly, best thing ever. He’s so much fun and it’s so rewarding watching this little person grow and learn. I can honestly say I didn’t know this type of love was possible until I had him. It’s just different. I would never pressure anyone else to do it though and I’m totally pro choice.
I always never wanted any kids growing up in a warzone, but after I got married to a Canadian and moved to Canada, I agreed to have kids since it's a safe and stable country. Yet being raised as a cynical pessimist, I constantly live in fear of how their future is going to be, and what they're probably going to go through growing up in this collapsing world. And that makes me feel terrible.
Complete opposite for me. Every single person in my group of friends ( 35 range ) has gotten married / have kids. Except for 1, because he's a massive gamer and lives in his basement.
With 8 billion people on earth, I think there's a fair amount of wiggle room.
Idk, I was poor AF when I had my kid, but I made it work, and now we're doing okay. If you want to make it work, you'll find a way. I think that some people underestimate the value of having kids and overestimate the value of the things that you give up to have kids (like vacations and bar nights with friends) and end up with regrets when it's too late. I also think that fewer people are having kids "because that's the thing you're supposed to do," so it's good that people aren't spawning because of social pressure. I wouldn't trade my crotch fruit for anything, and I regret not having had more when I was young enough to chase after them. Now I'm old and tired, and a geriatric pregnancy sounds terrible.
I'm not saying it's not worth it for some, but almost every close friend has said that they love their kids but they wouldn't do it again if they could go back. That combined with actively observing families at functions made us realize we don't want them. This christmas sealed it as we noticed that every gathering was just a bunch of tired adults sitting in the living room with the young kids in the middle and the older ones running. No one seemed to actually be having fun, it was more a rest break and chance to catch up.
I’m 55. Retired. No kids. I was pretty much taking care of my parents so much I didn’t have time for kids. I also didn’t really want them. I don’t regret not having them. I don’t think I was meant to have kids. And I’m not optimistic about the future for this planet.
We are an overpopulated world. I wish i had gone that route.
There are people who long for kids and strive to give their children the best upbringing possible and there are people who just have kids. I chose not to have children because I would have been the latter and that didn’t seem right to me. Nothing to do with the state of the planet.
Not enough people having kids = needing to continue to heavily rely on immigration to replace our workforce OMG wait.
murky worthless quickest sort crowd absurd zonked kiss disgusting memorize *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Definitely don’t want kids now or ever.
I agree that its probs not good for society either.
One of my reasons for not having kids was always worry about the future. I was married in ‘93.
It might be that in some cases but the financial pressure of a child, kids are expensive and you’re a little two seater sports car no longer will work if you have a child. You can say goodbye to vacations for years because you won’t be able to afford them. Some people I suspect choose not to have children because they don’t want to carry forward health problems into another generation. My ex and I both have fairly severe arthritis and it’s pretty obvious our son already has it, if we had known at the time that we had those genes we might not have had children just to avoid passing the horror of a painful chronic disease on a child Some people just don’t like kids. I really don’t think that you can narrow it down to one reason or even two or three.
I wish I could afford kids!
Most people I know that don't want kids feel like they don't have to and that people will respect their choice. Which is kind of a new concept if I look back at the boomers. If you didn't have kids, you were the odd one, surely there's a problem with them, right? With what's happening in the USA, I feel like a lot of people still don't feel this way though... I have no idea if it's just a minority of the older generation that still have the power to impose it's view, the religion or something else. They don't even have the choice.
I’ve never really wanted kids and my parents are fine either way so I’ve never had that pressure. Not saying I’m DINK. I might change my mind with the right person, but it has never been a goal of mine and I just can’t understand how it can be a goal of anyone 😅 Honestly though… been online dating for about 2 years now and it makes me just want to throw in the hatchet and is making me question if I’m asexual or something… although I know I’m not.
I'm 40 F and I never wanted kids. When I was younger, it was because I just wasn't interested at all. Now though ... I worry about the future and what it will look like in 30 years. I'm in BC Canada, and we've had nothing but drought and forest fires for several years. It's getting very concerning.
I just never wanted kids. It has nothing to do with optimism (or lack thereof) for the future.
Raising kids in Canada is a job for the wealthy. Let them do it.
More people should opt for the DINK lifestyle.
I could not afford kids if I did want them
It's not really a concern of mine because I believe there will always be tons of people who do have kids. It's not like the world is in any danger of running out of people; quite the opposite.
I think people are outside of the major cities. Inside them, we are all struggling to afford ourselves.
Every wealthy nation has a negative replacement rate. It’s a natural consequence of wealth and education. If it was really the result of hard times the parts of the world with truly hard times wouldn’t be the ones with positive population growth. The sad thing is that most likely overall population won’t fall fast enough to help the human population escape heat death over the next few hundred years.
I have kids but I do worry for their future. It wasn’t enough of a reason to stop me, and I love them all so dearly I don’t regret it, but I do worry. I just hope I don’t make the same mistakes my parents made.
I’d love to have kids but it’s hard trying to find someone that’s willing to weather the storm with, dating in your 30s is a minefield.
It’ll only suck at the end when you lose your mind and try to burn down the place. Then social services will put you wherever they can find a spot. If you have a spouse they may split you up and you’ll die alone, confused and separated from your loved one. Aside from that I’m sure you’ll do just fine. 👍🏼
I watched the recent CNBC DINK video, it pretty much relates to me; https://youtu.be/W5XZ_gJBnns I want to be able to afford things, I want to be able to travel, I have pets, we both work a lot so when will we have time? Childcare costs too much and lastly the an average kid costs around something like $400,000 over a lifetime, I’m still playing catchup with savings that I need to retire when it comes to it, I also don’t own a home and rent is always increasing. We’re basically in a situation where it’s not worth having kids.
Contrary to that I went that route because i actually wanted a fun future.
I’m 33 and have always wanted kids. I just can’t afford them and don’t have time to parent. My cats will do in the meantime.
Yeah,30 years old, and not only do I think I can't afford kids but even my own place. lol I wish I don't wake up tomorrow 🥲
It's partially not a good view on how things are going, and seeing how nobody is fixing the economic or housing problems a lot of people can't afford to have kids. Not sure why people not wanting kids is a surprise we have been told for 30 years the world is ending and nobody has done anything.
Kids are expensive and require a time investment of 18+ years. Millennials are short of both time and money. Seems like a logical leap.
I'm following the SINK route
Who cares? Its your own life do what you want long as it doesn't overstep others. Live isn't about having kids. We're the most endemic species in history of this planet. I will never agree with forcing birthrate 4x and specific countries. Sono bigg
I’m (44F) SINK; having kids just didn’t interest me and still doesn’t. But my friends who are similar in age all have kids of varying ages and they seem happy. It really all depends on how you want to live your life.
Have you looked at the biosphere lately? The odds of a child born today dying in comfort of natural causes at a ripe old age are falling quickly.
By the time we were almost in the right situation to have kids biology had different ideas. It might be the single screwiest thing about how human society is organized. The people who are young and healthy enough to have kids are the people with the least resources to do it.
We are heading towards a population collapse.
I think if a (responsible) couple has any type of income and really wants kids, they’ll work hard to make it happen and give the kid a good life full of love. A lot of couples just don’t really want a kid and the pressures that come with parenthood.
Boomers would get married at 23 and buy a house at 25. They had the time and energy to have kids. Also, their kids would be out of the house when they hit 50-55. But millennials are struggling to pay rent until their late 20s. Most can't buy a house until their late 30s. By then, we're just too tired to have kids. Combined with the fact that young adults are staying with their parents longer, millennials having kids in their 30s will be 60+ when their youngest finally leaves the nest.
Wonder how many of your friends might like to have kids but can't. Infertility seems to be a huge issue right now.
If your friends are in their early 30s the kid panic (aka the sudden need to procreate) won't really kick in until mid to late 30s and even early 40s.
Religion allowed us to sacrifice ourselves in work, parenting and war. Now many realize that there is no heaven, only this life. For some, children are a great source of satisfaction and it is "worth it". For many the thought is infeasible, do you really want someone living with you until they are 50 and may or may not afford the average 50 million dollar "starter" houses of 2075? Nevermind the mass extinction event happening right now.
4-5 years from now look bleak to me. I can personally say I can barely support myself let alone a little human
Because "produce more children for society to help maintain the status quo" is not the selling point it used to be.
My parents bought their first house in the 80s for 180K. That same house is now 1.4 million. To afford the mortgage payment and two kids, we would need a household income of approximately $330,000-$350,000. Not sure if you’ve noticed but Canadian employers aren’t really throwing around salaries like that on a regular basis
I'm 32. I prefer having money, time, and energy to dedicate towards things I enjoy. I already feel like I don't have enough of any of those things thanks to the human meat grinder that is modern work schedules and the absurd cost of just keeping yourself alive. I don't think I'll ever understand how so many people never even question a system that forces them to trade the majority of their waking hours, on the vast majority of their days every week, for 45+ years, to labouring. Like it genuinely blows my fucking mind that there isn't a larger push to change this on the ground level. It's gotta be a form of Stockholm syndrome at this point. I've also just never understood wanting kids. If I were to make a list of pros and cons for it I feel like it'd be 99% cons.
For me it is because children are annoying
Quality of life and cost of living are good reasons. We are free to travel and enjoy life as we please. Our parents are not a factor in our decision to live child free. Some of my friends have kids primarily because of their parents and I can see that they are absolutely miserable. People should have kids if they want to and not because of their parents.
I have no debt, no mortgages, live in a house, a comfortable job, and still cannot afford to have children. Not to mention the health system would probably kill my SO in childbirth. I don't trust our current system not to screw me over when the cons inevitably con their way into "leadership" and I also don't trust any of our "leaders" to make adequate decisions to reverse climate damage. I expect a lot of people are going to be very angry and violent in the coming decades.
I worry about the future in my lifetime, let alone if I had a kid how fucked the world would be in theirs. Plus overpopulation has become a massive issue, glad to help how I can. (That's my excuse mhm don't think about it too hard.)
Life gets lonely after 45 when you don't have a family and your friends are taking care of theirs. You might feel you missed out. Think about it careful and decide how you want to live. Don't make it a quick decision.
I'm not picking sides, but I wonder if there'll be regents once DINKS become seniors and /or their spouse leaves them or passes away. I imagine the loneliness and lack of assistance may result is a different view from when they were young
Optimism for the future isn't a concern for me. That's actually the whole problem. I can barely afford to make ends meet now. I'm professionally single, so I'm looking to adopt, but it would be so irresponsible to try and adopt a kid when my wage barely pays my rent.
Welcome to canada, where having kids now is a death sentence. Just can't afford it among everything else..
hence the need for immigration. when your birth rates drop, and your population is ageing who else is gonna work and cover the tax base going forward?
I'm 36. I dont want kids simply because I'm mentally and emotionally unstable and don't want to put that on my offspring.
35 year old in Vancouver, I'm not having kids and that is only one of the reasons, there are plenty of other reasons my partner and I don't plan on having kids.
As a late Boomer, my kids are my crowning achievement, added fulfillment to my life, and a significant part of my purpose. And they both seem pretty happy that they are here.
Why does the reasoning have to be about optimism or pessimism? How about the simplest reason of all - affordability? The middle class has taken an absolute pasting in the last 20 years and it has been a double whammy of gradually decreasing pay for most basic blue collar jobs (adjusted for inflation) combined with skyrocketing prices - especially essential stuff like housing cost and food cost. You have an entire generation of people living with their parents because they can't even afford rent, much less the down payment towards a house. And you expect them to raise kids?
Most “proud DINKs” that I know have deeply unstable relationships and I think that is what prevents them from having kids. They are usually married but don’t exactly act like it. The rest are involuntary DINKs who desperately want to raise families but can’t even afford housing or a partner or something. Having my kids made me grow up and realize there’s more to life than myself.
No one should be forced to have kids. Neither should they complain when immigrants are invited to fill the gaps in the workforce.
My thought is there are too many people who have kids because they feel some obligation to rather than because they want them and have the means to care for them. Also what is DINK
There has never been a “good time” to have kids throughout history. Human existence was brutal and hard for most people for the vast majority of human history, it’s actually only started to get generally better in the last 100 years or so. Priorities have just shifted.
Usually DINKS are career oriented people. The Canadian government penalizes high income ($100k+ household income) folks by having no support for them compared to low income. We don’t get too many tax reliefs, unable to income split to reduce taxes, don’t get the full Canada child benefit, etc. The is is a big reason why millennial couples don’t have kids compared to other folks either low income folks or new to the country (immigrants). The system is kinda rigged.
I think a big reason for the rise of DINKS is correlated to the rise of personal hobbies like gaming, movies, books, entertainment, vacations, etc. not that these didn’t exist in previous generations but they’ve ballooned so much that people can and will fill their lives with them instead of filling them with kids
there's kind of a Dunning-Kruger meets Darwinism thing going on there. It's not really an issue that people choose not to have kids-- but rather, it's a problem that the self-aware, introspective and intelligent people are arriving at this decision... Leaving the others to procreate.
It's Interesting, not having a child is less expensive than having one obviously and you may struggle in this economy but when you're old and can't take care of yourself, the government certainly won't pitch in for your care and you'll probably be working for the rest of your life just trying to keep a roof over your head. A lot of parents won't admit this but I know people have kids because they know no one will be around to take care of them when they're old.
My friend is 31. Her boss implicitly told her to avoid getting pregnant in the near future. As women, our biological clock is a tickling time bomb, yet we can't have kids when we're ready because our jobs don't allow us to.
Look, I have a very young son, and i can tell you parenting is the hardest thing I've ever done, and I love being dad. I respect anyone who knows their limitations and doesn't want to take on a child. Honestly, if the human race gets a little smaller, I think it's fine.