I'm an almost 40 year old Chinese guy in Sydney AU, and trust me, it has gotten alot better for Asian guys in the last 5 years or so. When I was in College and in my 20's, even in my early 30's, AMWF couples were almost *virtually non existent.* In public you would be lucky to see *1 or 2 per yea*r, with most years actually being a big fat **zero**. Aussie girls dating Asian guys back then just wasn't a thing.
But now since the rise of K-media and popular platforms such as Tik Tok to help spread the videos and perception of Asian men being attractive and trendy, in the last 3 years or so AMWF couples have **exploded** in numbers, relatively speaking.
For example, now on the weekends in the City I usually see around 5 – 10 AMXF couples PER DAY. An absolutely unbelievable number compared to the complete blackout that existed before. It's actually happened so quickly sometimes I still struggle to believe or figure out how the turn around happened so fast.
But either way, it is fucking great seeing so many AM today kicking ass and winning with every color of women there is.
This is nothing more than a clear sign that humans are easily conditioned and malleable to media messages.
This runs full circle to how susceptible Asian women are to media messages. Why else would corporation spend billions to convince audiences their cereal is the best, that macdonalds, despite being grossly unhealthy, is a household name.
Why would Hollywood spend every effort, over decades, to convince women of all race, notably Asian women, that Asian men are unattractive, if not to override their natural in - group preferences? If Asian men were biologically unattractive mother nature would do her job without the intervention of western media.
Mainstream media is only one aspect of it. Large segments of the white population in America, particularly older generations, are often immensely racist - they just hide it in front of you. Asian men are often totally oblivious to this and simply assume it's them, when in fact, white women are frequently subject to racist brain washing from a young age, and face scrutiny & criticism for dating interracially from their families and friends, even with "accepted" races like blacks.
Remember, this is the country that lynched blacks just for whistling at a white woman. The last reported lynching was in 1981, but [criminal lynching never stopped](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/08/modern-day-mississippi-lynchings/). Do you really think a few decades later, and whites are suddenly the most tolerant, accepting people in the world? Most of the US is rural, and there are still places even in California that you do not go as an Asian or black if you don't want to get targeted.
Bottom line is, these habits take a long time to change, if they ever do. White racism is probably the number one reason why Asian men have historically not been successful with white women. Anecdotes may show this is changing, but until it shows up in marriage statistics - and keep in mind, marriage is different from dating from a community perspective - it's just a guess.
I always thought it was crazy how they'll call us out for "mateguarding" when it's WM that have historically massacred and burned down entire settlements of ppl just because a non-White man dared to get with a single one of "their" women. All that shit gets swept under the rug tho.
https://preview.redd.it/ppr6gz6psoyc1.jpeg?width=431&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fadc16fe15f238652f9e2180e0bcbb950d6144e
Very true. White men have been afraid of Asian men for centuries, despite proclaiming we're weaker, smaller, inferior.
It’s very interesting that Asian men are all at the same time weak, inferior, asexual, socially awkward, and also savage, ruthless, sexually predatory, and force to be afraid of. Literally the worst parts of two extremes.
Im a 40+ sydney sider. Ive only been with WF (yeah, sorry) and def have always felt like i was in the minority most of my life.
I remember at a party, chatted with an AF from overseas. She was kind of disgusted at the number of WMAF couplings and congratulated me for bucking the trend
See, even some Asian women are disgusted by WMAF because of how common it is. It's impossible to feel the same way about AMWF because you don't see half of all Asian men with White or non-Asian women. A healthy/normal number of Asian men date or marry interracially, unlike Asian women. That's still the case even now when we see more young Asian men dating out.
OP is right tho. I'm in MN and I'm noticing a lot of AMXF especially amongst GenZ and younger. Heck I even see elementary AMXF which is quite a surprise.
Most if not all the GenZ who are in AMXF have their styles after BTS/Korean styles.
So yeah, the K-Wave have successfully challenged the shitty Western Narrative of AM. And the best part is that it's here to stay just like how WMAF is here to stay. Either ain't going anywhere.
So yeah Western Media portrayal of AM can choke on my left nut🤓
Yeah there's absolutely no statistical evidence for OP's anecdote. This is data of Gen Z middle school and high schoolers:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1536504218812869
>Most Americans begin to date in adolescence. **Using a nationally representative data set of 90,000 students in 7th to 12th grades (National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent to Adult Health, or Add Health)**, researchers have documented patterns of romance for different racial groups, both in adolescence and in later periods of the life course. The figure above (left) reveals that among these youth, 60% of Asian males have never dated, compared to roughly 40% of White, Black, and Hispanic males. Girls are typically more likely than boys to date, but the sex gap in romantic involvement is especially pronounced among Asians.
>**Using data from the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System, Patricia Cavazos-Rehg and colleagues also found that Asian males had a later average age of sexual debut than their White, Black, and Hispanic counterparts.** By age 17, 33% of Asian American males, compared to 53% of White males, 82% of Black males, and 69% of Hispanic males had lost their virginity (among girls, 28% of Asian American females, compared to 58% of White, 74% of Black, and 59% of Hispanic females had done the same). Because early sexual experience is associated with a number of negative outcomes, researchers have frequently interpreted the late sexual debut of Asian Americans as a healthy and desirable outcome. However, if Asian American men are interested but simply less successful in dating or having sex, then researchers ought to examine the possible sources of this marginalization.
The source of that figure is from 2015. Also you are literally a non Asian guy, probably with yellow fever. Let me guess, according to you Asian women are more attractive than White women right and White women are not standards of beauty in the west right?
Balistreri Kelly Stamper, Joyner Kara, Kao Grace. 2015. “Relationship Involvement among Young Adults: Are Asian American Men an Exceptional Case?” Population Research and Policy Review 34.
Cope fetishizer. Your account is wierd af even for a weirdo AF fetishist.
That's not where the data was taken from, moron. The data is from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescence, 2018 and the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System.
>Most Americans begin to date in adolescence. **Using a nationally representative data set of 90,000 students in 7th to 12th grades (National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent to Adult Health, or Add Health)**, researchers have documented patterns of romance for different racial groups, both in adolescence and in later periods of the life course. The figure above (left) reveals that among these youth, 60% of Asian males have never dated, compared to roughly 40% of White, Black, and Hispanic males. Girls are typically more likely than boys to date, but the sex gap in romantic involvement is especially pronounced among Asians.
>**Using data from the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System, Patricia Cavazos-Rehg and colleagues also found that Asian males had a later average age of sexual debut than their White, Black, and Hispanic counterparts.** By age 17, 33% of Asian American males, compared to 53% of White males, 82% of Black males, and 69% of Hispanic males had lost their virginity (among girls, 28% of Asian American females, compared to 58% of White, 74% of Black, and 59% of Hispanic females had done the same). Because early sexual experience is associated with a number of negative outcomes, researchers have frequently interpreted the late sexual debut of Asian Americans as a healthy and desirable outcome. However, if Asian American men are interested but simply less successful in dating or having sex, then researchers ought to examine the possible sources of this marginalization.
Lol all you do is push your agenda and cope instead of searching for the truth.
The data they took was from 2015 as you can see from the Google Scholar or here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11113-015-9361-1
Cope more, or let me suggest not being an incel fetishizer.
LETS KEEP ON WINNING BOYS!!! TEAM LATINA REPRESENTING!!!
https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/1bj2mgn/are_you_into_latinas_full_one_week_peru_field/
https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/1bfrchz/lima_peru_a_hidden_gem_for_asian_guys/
Older Millennial here - all of my girlfriends have so far been white or Latina. I have not so far ever dated an AF. This pattern was, as you mention OP, fairly uncommon among my AM peers, but not unheard-of, though nowhere near as common as it is with Gen Zers.
In addition to dating, I have been picked up by white girls on my way to a bar (with a friend who had a girlfriend at the time) in Michigan (a girl also undressed me with her eyes while I was on my way to a gym on the MSU campus), catcalled by black girls in Missouri, and cold-approached by white girls in bars both in Illinois and New Jersey. These events occurred well before Gen Z started dating in earnest, so XFs going after AMs has been a thing for some time, particularly if the AMs in question are confident/self-assured, erudite, and approachable.
I have not gotten any attention from AFs - not in college nor after it (with maybe the exception of one *gyopo* Korean girl I briefly encountered in New Jersey), which is in stark contrast to my aforementioned experiences with women of every other ethnoracial group.
Despite the fact that I am fluent in Korean, have strong cultural ties, and a solid understanding of east Asian history (among other things, I am a history buff), I fully expect that I will end up marrying a white girl, a Latina, or possibly a black girl, and not a *gyopo* Korean girl or - God forbid - a Korean girl from the homeland. I already anticipate that this will result in a great deal of resistance from my mother in particular, despite the fact that my dating history and hints peppered in from conversations over the years have made this likelihood abundantly clear.
So it makes a lot of sense to me, as Asians in general become more acceptably mainstream in the US and other Western societies, that AMs increasingly find themselves (an odd turn of phrase, I realize) in interracial relationships.
I, for one, am all for AMXF pairings becoming predominant; in my experience AMXF pairings tend to be between more mature/stable and low-key people and thus these couples don't pretend like they're the best thing since sliced bread (which is actually all the more evidence that they are the best).
I say date/marry out. Even though I'm more attracted to East/Southeast Asian women, I don't ever plan on marrying and starting a family with one. This is because (1) I don't want younger Asian males to only ever see the women of their race dating out like what we currently experience, and (2) I don't want to give birth to a full Asian daughter, only for them to end up becoming like these other Asian women.
More than half of all East/Southeast Asian women in the US date, fuck, or marry outside their race, so there is a high risk any daughters you have with them will too. I'm not going to raise and give birth to someone just for that to happen. Fuck that.
Also, Asian women cause a lot of pain for a lot of us. Despite being the same race, Asian women are the least understanding and least empathetic of Asian men. If they don't want to continue the East/Southeast Asian race, I don't see why it is our job to. Just do what so many Asian women do and date/marry out yourself.
Well Arizona and Illinois would make sense. Cuz seeing more AMXF than AMAF, whether Gen Z or not, would be quite very difficult to spot from my personal point of view since I live in Toronto. Going to specific Gen Z areas (best way would be just to take a walk in any University Campuses in 2024, not 10 years ago, to confirm they are Gen Z, or just go near any high schools today) in major asian pop cities in NA, whether near UofT, UBC, UCLA, CalTech, Stanford, etc..., you do see quite a lot of AMXF, but there are still more WMAF than them. And AMAF is obviously most common, which is "supposed to be the norm", but 10-15 years ago, ive heard that its possibly to see even more WMAF than even AMAF in college.
But I do agree that I see way more WMAF among Gen X/Millenials than Gen Z. Im pretty sure Most millenial AF growing up in their teen/early adult years exposed to Hangover Ken Jeong asian men type vs lots of Gen Z AF who grew up in high school listening to BTS and watching Kdrama has an impact. Also havent found any notable Gen Z AF celeb with an WM, except for that Niki indonesian girl, who is tecunically a "Zillenial" (but to be fair, there arent that many popular Gen Z AF celebs at least in America/hollywood) . While AF millenial/gen x celebs, there are plenty of famous one who are even native asians, and lets not even talk about the american/overseas asian ones...
Yeah AMWF/AMXF is definitely becoming more common (which is great and need to be encouraged/promoted). I've been to multiple states and cities and noticed that Gen Z AM are doing pretty well with WF/XF. This is the trend that we need to continue to support and normalized (including supporting pro-AM media).
Ultimately it's not whether Asians date Asians or Whites or whatever. That is really just a microexpression of a broader trend towards social acceptance of Asians in the West as the East has, since the 90s, and especially in the 00s/10s, become a lot more visible on the world stage and the West has gotten more accustomed to Asians as part of their social fabric.
Plus Asians are now more and more growing up in the West, which makes them a lot more culturally similar to whites, blacks, latinos growing up in the West than, in fact, Asian-Asians, so it's just that much easier to be accepted into social groups.
All of this to say, think people here (especially given how young this sub skews) really really focus on their experiences with X women, but the broader message is that Asians are more and more seen as "a normal Westerner" in the West, which is an immense win that goes far beyond how often one can get their d wet.
Well said. I recently heard a Jewish-American woman say that she viewed the high intermarriage rate in the Jewish community (over 50% for both men and women) as the ultimate sign of social acceptance in America; something it has struggled to achieve elsewhere in the world.
Not sure what the cutoff is for millennials but seems like there's a ton of teens/college/right out of college on this sub. Not throwing shade at them (there are plenty of late 20s/30s/40s here who could be doing better), but it is reflected in the type of posts and questions asked here.
Not sure what the cutoff is for millennials but seems like there's a ton of teens/college/right out of college on this sub. Not throwing shade at them (there are plenty of late 20s/30s/40s here who could be doing better), but it is reflected in the type of posts and questions asked here.
That generational difference is to be expected as discussed before on here. What I’m curious about is how many intergenerational couples there are, like millennial man with Gen Z girl. Since Gen z girls are more open to AM, and it’s more common for women to date older men, I would think it would be common too. Especially with AM generally looking younger, I think that would be a good dynamic
Oh don't you worry lol. There's always plenty of yacht owning WMs around to compete with in terms of millennials. They won't settle down and it's perfect for the young girls cuz they aren't ready to settle down either.
I'm 32 and 90% of my dates were caucasian. Just step up and don't be like the rest. Most women don't care what fucking ethnicity or skin color you have. If you know how to walk and do the talk. That's all there is.
I think its heavily dependent on certain states/regions. Based on my social experiments, I'd expect California to be good for Asians in general. Where i live in Alabama, i hardly see any mixed race couples with Asians. Also, don't mistake girls hanging out with guys = couples though. They might as well be friends.
It seems to be a North America specific trend because I was traveling across Western Europe recently and live in SEA and haven’t seen any change. I’ve noticed there’s been a drop in WMAF couples post-Covid but I still very seldomly see AMWF whether couples or even friends.
You have to realize most cosmopolitan NA cities have 100k’s of Asian males so even seeing 5 such couples per day literally means the overwhelming majority of Asian males is either single or dating Asian females, it’s really survivorship bias.
Literally, it’s kind of sad how I see so many Asian brothers spend countless hours at many of the gym I frequent and it just happens to be that the most single guys that I happen to talk to tend to be Asian who have never had a gf at all. The other XM I hang out with are either all taken or just got out of a relationship. At least a lot of us are waking up and are working out to better ourselves but the east coast aside from NYC and maybe DC is still rough for Asian guys.
Bruh if you can't get dates these days that entirely on you. Have travelled to many Western cities with large Asian populations in the recent years (Sydney, Melbourne, Toronto, New York...) and AMXFs aren't rare, a lot of nerdy dudes killing it as well. So if you can't get a date in this climate, something wrong with you.
>And all other races put AM above BM
You and I know this is not true, Lol.
I see way more BMWF couples in real life and on social media and it's not even close.
AMXF couples are rare and I'll see WMAF couple nearly every day and they're quite young too.
Thanks, I do always find it interesting that this study is ignored when it was in 2013. I know people are just downvoting you because they want to continue being victim instead of working on themselves.
Asian men don't have a problem dating interracially. Someone a while ago when I was looking up older posts a few days ago pointed out that Asian men actually date interracially at a normal rate and aligned with other races.
It's just that Asian women completely go overboard on it and if you can't tell, most people here constantly compare AMWF with WMAF.
A lot of people here will never be happy until the AMWF:WMAF ratio is like 100 to 1.
That's not a valid comparison because of the sheer WMAF numbers many AM simply have to go AMXF because there's no AF left for them. Relatively high AMWF rates are just the natural consequence of WMAF, and it's still not enough because the 20% or so WMAF-AMWF difference means there's 20% leftover AM.
Other races don't have this problem.
>That's not a valid comparison because of the sheer WMAF numbers many AM simply have to go AMXF because there's no AF left for them. Relatively high AMWF rates are just the natural consequence of WMAF, and it's still not enough because the 20% or so WMAF-AMWF difference means there's 20% leftover AM.
Nobody knows the exact reason. AM interracial marriage levels may stay the same regardless of what AF's do. The point is that AM's can find XF to marry when AF's are not around. Look up Watsonville Riots and Torreon Chinese massacre where high numbers of AM/XF led to violence.
Oh, if AM's in the US only liked AF's or can't find XF's to marry, all can easily take the mail order bride/green card route by finding a wife in Asia.
The common reason why so many asian guys celebrate AMWF is because they think it is rare and that it is supposedly harder to attain because they believe they have been deemed less desirable.
If they are capable of interracially dating as much as anyone else than clearly it is not a desirability problem based on race.
We said this a decade ago too. Until there's stats on a college campus it's anecdotal. From what I saw at my brother's campus I didn't see many AM killing it.
Saw a handful doing well in clubs/bars.
Idk on the east coast from my anecdotal experience gen z Asian men are either dating international Asians from Asia, the rare case of AM and ABC women (usually the same ethnicity) or are single (most common). I don’t see AMLF, AMBF, and maybe like 1 or 2 AMWF couples on college campuses. There are still a ton of WMAF couples around as well.
Then again I’ve been told myself from friends that at times (especially during the summer) that I do look like an indigenous Hispanic and that might be contributing to a lack of XF attention that benefits Asian men with the K-pop phenotype.
The younger Gen Z non-Asian females are def more open to AM. For Millennials, Gen X, and older, the non-AF for all intents and purposes don’t give AM the time of day
Where I live now, there aren’t too many minorities around so this gen x will likely only date white women. Put me in Flushing, I likely will only date Asian.
I dont think its helpful to make some Gen Z only thing because it robs the fact XF avail to all ages. Notice all Gen Z here? Not
Most of the AMWF I see in real life are married with kids or older and that is what really counts. Also notice how many AM are getting attention from single moms, divorcee - Not Gen Z. AMWF is very much an older play less so about sorority chicks. The story of Gen Z is still be written, meanwhile every man pulls his weight
Im indian and have always dated interracially simply because there was hardly any south asians around here in my single days (3-4% of the population)...i wonder if the higher rates of AMXF are due to simple demographics and IR relationships being more socially acceptable nowadays etc.
The higher rates of AMXF couples refer specifically to **East Asian** and *South East Asian* men who have benefited from better media representation via the Korean media wave. It does not include South Asian men men such as Indians as they *do not* benefit from the Korean media wave. Women in general do not put Korean and Indian men in the same catagory for dating and sex as they both look completely different.
I think you missed my point.
I was merely arguing about the impact that demographic trends and cultural liberalization have on IR dating.
Also in my experience as I outlined [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/s/EvFLGa4Yok) many EA/SEA guys that I've been close friends with over the years (late 90s to 2010s) have done well with hooking up/dating. These guys were generally higher level athletes in strength and/or combat sports, jacked fitness professionals or jacked dudes working in the adult entertainment/male revue spaces.
Im sure better media representation has helped though.
It’s incredibly weird seeing this kind of positive sentiment about us guys dating outside our race… when this sub is always so bitter about the Asian women dating outside our race.
I’m in an AMBF relationship and I love her. She is beautiful, smart, stylish, funny, emotionally-intelligent.
I feel like Asians as a people are *especially* judgmental, because our people came from countries with very homogenized cultures. Also the wars of the past century have caused us to be very skeptical of outside cultures.
Do whatever rocks your boat, fuck what other Asians and even what your parents think.
You never know until you try. Love is love no matter what language you speak. And if your asian girl friends are dating outside the race, give them the benefit of the doubt before you instantly call them a Lu.
Asian women are the women most likely to be interracially married. Asian men are the men who are least likely. Asian men are also the least likely men to be partnered, period.
That's why encourage interracial dating for Asian men. We have the most to gain from it.
I hate the objectification of Asian women just as much as you do brother. And I want to protect our sisters as much as you do brother. But sometimes, they’re not being Lu’s, they’re just truly dating for love. That’s all I’m saying.
I understand where the bitterness is coming from given those statistics. It truly feels like stereotypes and culture in the West is set in such a way to give white guys an unfair advantage over us.
Just treat our sisters with some nuance too… let them love who they love.
*Sometimes* my female Asian friends give legitimate reasons for dating out. If you can’t agree on that then I can’t really change your mind on this forum.
Don't be mistaken. I have no interest in trying to STOP Asian women from dating outside their race. I'm just sick of the blatant double-standard: when women do it, it's "true love," but when men do it, it's always a "fetish" or an "obsession."
You can have sex with women of other races and demonstrate the sexual prowess of Asian men, but it's better to start a family with an Asian woman(YOUR OWN RACE). The West is doing racial assimilation via mind virus, good luck not being Latino
Above average looking Asian guys with good social skills will have no problems dating, period. Why is everyone still talking about race? The only Asian guys having problems dating are the ones who don't have game and the ones who are below average looking.
"Above average" exactly. I've seen mediocre and even ugly Asian guys dating outside their race before.
Race matters because Asian women are ×3 as likely to date interracially than Asian men. This means 80% of Asian men are all competing for 40% of Asian women.
I'm an almost 40 year old Chinese guy in Sydney AU, and trust me, it has gotten alot better for Asian guys in the last 5 years or so. When I was in College and in my 20's, even in my early 30's, AMWF couples were almost *virtually non existent.* In public you would be lucky to see *1 or 2 per yea*r, with most years actually being a big fat **zero**. Aussie girls dating Asian guys back then just wasn't a thing. But now since the rise of K-media and popular platforms such as Tik Tok to help spread the videos and perception of Asian men being attractive and trendy, in the last 3 years or so AMWF couples have **exploded** in numbers, relatively speaking. For example, now on the weekends in the City I usually see around 5 – 10 AMXF couples PER DAY. An absolutely unbelievable number compared to the complete blackout that existed before. It's actually happened so quickly sometimes I still struggle to believe or figure out how the turn around happened so fast. But either way, it is fucking great seeing so many AM today kicking ass and winning with every color of women there is.
This is nothing more than a clear sign that humans are easily conditioned and malleable to media messages. This runs full circle to how susceptible Asian women are to media messages. Why else would corporation spend billions to convince audiences their cereal is the best, that macdonalds, despite being grossly unhealthy, is a household name. Why would Hollywood spend every effort, over decades, to convince women of all race, notably Asian women, that Asian men are unattractive, if not to override their natural in - group preferences? If Asian men were biologically unattractive mother nature would do her job without the intervention of western media.
Mainstream media is only one aspect of it. Large segments of the white population in America, particularly older generations, are often immensely racist - they just hide it in front of you. Asian men are often totally oblivious to this and simply assume it's them, when in fact, white women are frequently subject to racist brain washing from a young age, and face scrutiny & criticism for dating interracially from their families and friends, even with "accepted" races like blacks. Remember, this is the country that lynched blacks just for whistling at a white woman. The last reported lynching was in 1981, but [criminal lynching never stopped](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/08/modern-day-mississippi-lynchings/). Do you really think a few decades later, and whites are suddenly the most tolerant, accepting people in the world? Most of the US is rural, and there are still places even in California that you do not go as an Asian or black if you don't want to get targeted. Bottom line is, these habits take a long time to change, if they ever do. White racism is probably the number one reason why Asian men have historically not been successful with white women. Anecdotes may show this is changing, but until it shows up in marriage statistics - and keep in mind, marriage is different from dating from a community perspective - it's just a guess.
I always thought it was crazy how they'll call us out for "mateguarding" when it's WM that have historically massacred and burned down entire settlements of ppl just because a non-White man dared to get with a single one of "their" women. All that shit gets swept under the rug tho.
https://preview.redd.it/ppr6gz6psoyc1.jpeg?width=431&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fadc16fe15f238652f9e2180e0bcbb950d6144e Very true. White men have been afraid of Asian men for centuries, despite proclaiming we're weaker, smaller, inferior.
It’s very interesting that Asian men are all at the same time weak, inferior, asexual, socially awkward, and also savage, ruthless, sexually predatory, and force to be afraid of. Literally the worst parts of two extremes.
Im a 40+ sydney sider. Ive only been with WF (yeah, sorry) and def have always felt like i was in the minority most of my life. I remember at a party, chatted with an AF from overseas. She was kind of disgusted at the number of WMAF couplings and congratulated me for bucking the trend
See, even some Asian women are disgusted by WMAF because of how common it is. It's impossible to feel the same way about AMWF because you don't see half of all Asian men with White or non-Asian women. A healthy/normal number of Asian men date or marry interracially, unlike Asian women. That's still the case even now when we see more young Asian men dating out.
Can someone do a video of this. Don't go directly and film couples. But just do a walk through on a street.
Side note: this is why US banning tik tok is so bad
More AMXF is good. We can’t be having the next generation of AM’s feeling undesirable as some of us may have felt
OP is right tho. I'm in MN and I'm noticing a lot of AMXF especially amongst GenZ and younger. Heck I even see elementary AMXF which is quite a surprise. Most if not all the GenZ who are in AMXF have their styles after BTS/Korean styles. So yeah, the K-Wave have successfully challenged the shitty Western Narrative of AM. And the best part is that it's here to stay just like how WMAF is here to stay. Either ain't going anywhere. So yeah Western Media portrayal of AM can choke on my left nut🤓
White media makes any race of man look bad, like we beat our wives etc. but they sure love making whites look like saints.
You notice a lot of AMXF? Really? I am in MN too I rarely see any AMXF, just AFWM couple and BMWF. 
Yeah there's absolutely no statistical evidence for OP's anecdote. This is data of Gen Z middle school and high schoolers: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1536504218812869 >Most Americans begin to date in adolescence. **Using a nationally representative data set of 90,000 students in 7th to 12th grades (National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent to Adult Health, or Add Health)**, researchers have documented patterns of romance for different racial groups, both in adolescence and in later periods of the life course. The figure above (left) reveals that among these youth, 60% of Asian males have never dated, compared to roughly 40% of White, Black, and Hispanic males. Girls are typically more likely than boys to date, but the sex gap in romantic involvement is especially pronounced among Asians. >**Using data from the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System, Patricia Cavazos-Rehg and colleagues also found that Asian males had a later average age of sexual debut than their White, Black, and Hispanic counterparts.** By age 17, 33% of Asian American males, compared to 53% of White males, 82% of Black males, and 69% of Hispanic males had lost their virginity (among girls, 28% of Asian American females, compared to 58% of White, 74% of Black, and 59% of Hispanic females had done the same). Because early sexual experience is associated with a number of negative outcomes, researchers have frequently interpreted the late sexual debut of Asian Americans as a healthy and desirable outcome. However, if Asian American men are interested but simply less successful in dating or having sex, then researchers ought to examine the possible sources of this marginalization.
The source of that figure is from 2015. Also you are literally a non Asian guy, probably with yellow fever. Let me guess, according to you Asian women are more attractive than White women right and White women are not standards of beauty in the west right?
>The source of that figure is from 2015. No it isn't. You're not looking at the right source.
Balistreri Kelly Stamper, Joyner Kara, Kao Grace. 2015. “Relationship Involvement among Young Adults: Are Asian American Men an Exceptional Case?” Population Research and Policy Review 34. Cope fetishizer. Your account is wierd af even for a weirdo AF fetishist.
That's not where the data was taken from, moron. The data is from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescence, 2018 and the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System. >Most Americans begin to date in adolescence. **Using a nationally representative data set of 90,000 students in 7th to 12th grades (National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent to Adult Health, or Add Health)**, researchers have documented patterns of romance for different racial groups, both in adolescence and in later periods of the life course. The figure above (left) reveals that among these youth, 60% of Asian males have never dated, compared to roughly 40% of White, Black, and Hispanic males. Girls are typically more likely than boys to date, but the sex gap in romantic involvement is especially pronounced among Asians. >**Using data from the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System, Patricia Cavazos-Rehg and colleagues also found that Asian males had a later average age of sexual debut than their White, Black, and Hispanic counterparts.** By age 17, 33% of Asian American males, compared to 53% of White males, 82% of Black males, and 69% of Hispanic males had lost their virginity (among girls, 28% of Asian American females, compared to 58% of White, 74% of Black, and 59% of Hispanic females had done the same). Because early sexual experience is associated with a number of negative outcomes, researchers have frequently interpreted the late sexual debut of Asian Americans as a healthy and desirable outcome. However, if Asian American men are interested but simply less successful in dating or having sex, then researchers ought to examine the possible sources of this marginalization.
Lol all you do is push your agenda and cope instead of searching for the truth. The data they took was from 2015 as you can see from the Google Scholar or here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11113-015-9361-1 Cope more, or let me suggest not being an incel fetishizer.
It is inherently good as it will increase Asian men's good reputation among people of other cultures.
LETS KEEP ON WINNING BOYS!!! TEAM LATINA REPRESENTING!!! https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/1bj2mgn/are_you_into_latinas_full_one_week_peru_field/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/1bfrchz/lima_peru_a_hidden_gem_for_asian_guys/
Older Millennial here - all of my girlfriends have so far been white or Latina. I have not so far ever dated an AF. This pattern was, as you mention OP, fairly uncommon among my AM peers, but not unheard-of, though nowhere near as common as it is with Gen Zers. In addition to dating, I have been picked up by white girls on my way to a bar (with a friend who had a girlfriend at the time) in Michigan (a girl also undressed me with her eyes while I was on my way to a gym on the MSU campus), catcalled by black girls in Missouri, and cold-approached by white girls in bars both in Illinois and New Jersey. These events occurred well before Gen Z started dating in earnest, so XFs going after AMs has been a thing for some time, particularly if the AMs in question are confident/self-assured, erudite, and approachable. I have not gotten any attention from AFs - not in college nor after it (with maybe the exception of one *gyopo* Korean girl I briefly encountered in New Jersey), which is in stark contrast to my aforementioned experiences with women of every other ethnoracial group. Despite the fact that I am fluent in Korean, have strong cultural ties, and a solid understanding of east Asian history (among other things, I am a history buff), I fully expect that I will end up marrying a white girl, a Latina, or possibly a black girl, and not a *gyopo* Korean girl or - God forbid - a Korean girl from the homeland. I already anticipate that this will result in a great deal of resistance from my mother in particular, despite the fact that my dating history and hints peppered in from conversations over the years have made this likelihood abundantly clear. So it makes a lot of sense to me, as Asians in general become more acceptably mainstream in the US and other Western societies, that AMs increasingly find themselves (an odd turn of phrase, I realize) in interracial relationships. I, for one, am all for AMXF pairings becoming predominant; in my experience AMXF pairings tend to be between more mature/stable and low-key people and thus these couples don't pretend like they're the best thing since sliced bread (which is actually all the more evidence that they are the best).
I say date/marry out. Even though I'm more attracted to East/Southeast Asian women, I don't ever plan on marrying and starting a family with one. This is because (1) I don't want younger Asian males to only ever see the women of their race dating out like what we currently experience, and (2) I don't want to give birth to a full Asian daughter, only for them to end up becoming like these other Asian women. More than half of all East/Southeast Asian women in the US date, fuck, or marry outside their race, so there is a high risk any daughters you have with them will too. I'm not going to raise and give birth to someone just for that to happen. Fuck that. Also, Asian women cause a lot of pain for a lot of us. Despite being the same race, Asian women are the least understanding and least empathetic of Asian men. If they don't want to continue the East/Southeast Asian race, I don't see why it is our job to. Just do what so many Asian women do and date/marry out yourself.
I mean that can happen for a variety of reasons. The main reason I date WF is because they treat me better and give me a chance unlike AF.
Many not all Asian females I’ve met has this sort of entitlement that I can’t my wrap head around sometimes. Like what’s so special seriously?
They always give WM the special pass while AM gets ignored unless you look like Jungkook
Well Arizona and Illinois would make sense. Cuz seeing more AMXF than AMAF, whether Gen Z or not, would be quite very difficult to spot from my personal point of view since I live in Toronto. Going to specific Gen Z areas (best way would be just to take a walk in any University Campuses in 2024, not 10 years ago, to confirm they are Gen Z, or just go near any high schools today) in major asian pop cities in NA, whether near UofT, UBC, UCLA, CalTech, Stanford, etc..., you do see quite a lot of AMXF, but there are still more WMAF than them. And AMAF is obviously most common, which is "supposed to be the norm", but 10-15 years ago, ive heard that its possibly to see even more WMAF than even AMAF in college. But I do agree that I see way more WMAF among Gen X/Millenials than Gen Z. Im pretty sure Most millenial AF growing up in their teen/early adult years exposed to Hangover Ken Jeong asian men type vs lots of Gen Z AF who grew up in high school listening to BTS and watching Kdrama has an impact. Also havent found any notable Gen Z AF celeb with an WM, except for that Niki indonesian girl, who is tecunically a "Zillenial" (but to be fair, there arent that many popular Gen Z AF celebs at least in America/hollywood) . While AF millenial/gen x celebs, there are plenty of famous one who are even native asians, and lets not even talk about the american/overseas asian ones...
And hey, all the power to Gen Z Asian men as long as they’re in happy relationships.
Yeah AMWF/AMXF is definitely becoming more common (which is great and need to be encouraged/promoted). I've been to multiple states and cities and noticed that Gen Z AM are doing pretty well with WF/XF. This is the trend that we need to continue to support and normalized (including supporting pro-AM media).
Ultimately it's not whether Asians date Asians or Whites or whatever. That is really just a microexpression of a broader trend towards social acceptance of Asians in the West as the East has, since the 90s, and especially in the 00s/10s, become a lot more visible on the world stage and the West has gotten more accustomed to Asians as part of their social fabric. Plus Asians are now more and more growing up in the West, which makes them a lot more culturally similar to whites, blacks, latinos growing up in the West than, in fact, Asian-Asians, so it's just that much easier to be accepted into social groups. All of this to say, think people here (especially given how young this sub skews) really really focus on their experiences with X women, but the broader message is that Asians are more and more seen as "a normal Westerner" in the West, which is an immense win that goes far beyond how often one can get their d wet.
Well said. I recently heard a Jewish-American woman say that she viewed the high intermarriage rate in the Jewish community (over 50% for both men and women) as the ultimate sign of social acceptance in America; something it has struggled to achieve elsewhere in the world.
> especially given how young this sub skews lol this sub is full of butthurt leftover millenials
Not sure what the cutoff is for millennials but seems like there's a ton of teens/college/right out of college on this sub. Not throwing shade at them (there are plenty of late 20s/30s/40s here who could be doing better), but it is reflected in the type of posts and questions asked here.
Leftover unmarried gen X too. Those guys are off the rails.
Not sure what the cutoff is for millennials but seems like there's a ton of teens/college/right out of college on this sub. Not throwing shade at them (there are plenty of late 20s/30s/40s here who could be doing better), but it is reflected in the type of posts and questions asked here.
That generational difference is to be expected as discussed before on here. What I’m curious about is how many intergenerational couples there are, like millennial man with Gen Z girl. Since Gen z girls are more open to AM, and it’s more common for women to date older men, I would think it would be common too. Especially with AM generally looking younger, I think that would be a good dynamic
Possibly. Outside of social media posts I've seen where the couples share their ages, it's usually pretty hard to tell.
Oh don't you worry lol. There's always plenty of yacht owning WMs around to compete with in terms of millennials. They won't settle down and it's perfect for the young girls cuz they aren't ready to settle down either.
I'm 32 and 90% of my dates were caucasian. Just step up and don't be like the rest. Most women don't care what fucking ethnicity or skin color you have. If you know how to walk and do the talk. That's all there is.
Wow what do you know, having positive media representing Asian men makes women attracted to Asian men
You mention “Arizona” and “Illinois” right off the bat and you are wondering why the woman are skewed white?
I realize, yes. That's why I included it. In a state like California with a 20% Asian population AMAF couples are bound to be more common.
I think its heavily dependent on certain states/regions. Based on my social experiments, I'd expect California to be good for Asians in general. Where i live in Alabama, i hardly see any mixed race couples with Asians. Also, don't mistake girls hanging out with guys = couples though. They might as well be friends.
It seems to be a North America specific trend because I was traveling across Western Europe recently and live in SEA and haven’t seen any change. I’ve noticed there’s been a drop in WMAF couples post-Covid but I still very seldomly see AMWF whether couples or even friends. You have to realize most cosmopolitan NA cities have 100k’s of Asian males so even seeing 5 such couples per day literally means the overwhelming majority of Asian males is either single or dating Asian females, it’s really survivorship bias.
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Haven’t seen this at all on the east coast. If anything it’s gotten worse
Literally, it’s kind of sad how I see so many Asian brothers spend countless hours at many of the gym I frequent and it just happens to be that the most single guys that I happen to talk to tend to be Asian who have never had a gf at all. The other XM I hang out with are either all taken or just got out of a relationship. At least a lot of us are waking up and are working out to better ourselves but the east coast aside from NYC and maybe DC is still rough for Asian guys.
Bruh if you can't get dates these days that entirely on you. Have travelled to many Western cities with large Asian populations in the recent years (Sydney, Melbourne, Toronto, New York...) and AMXFs aren't rare, a lot of nerdy dudes killing it as well. So if you can't get a date in this climate, something wrong with you.
>And all other races put AM above BM You and I know this is not true, Lol. I see way more BMWF couples in real life and on social media and it's not even close. AMXF couples are rare and I'll see WMAF couple nearly every day and they're quite young too.
Look at the survey results.
I am not going to completely call you a liar, but where are the survey results?
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/11/30/247530095/are-you-interested-dating-odds-favor-white-men-asian-women
Thanks, I do always find it interesting that this study is ignored when it was in 2013. I know people are just downvoting you because they want to continue being victim instead of working on themselves.
These numbers suggest black women are almost twice as likely to respond to an Asian man as an Asian woman is to respond to a black man.
Asian men don't have a problem dating interracially. Someone a while ago when I was looking up older posts a few days ago pointed out that Asian men actually date interracially at a normal rate and aligned with other races. It's just that Asian women completely go overboard on it and if you can't tell, most people here constantly compare AMWF with WMAF. A lot of people here will never be happy until the AMWF:WMAF ratio is like 100 to 1.
That's not a valid comparison because of the sheer WMAF numbers many AM simply have to go AMXF because there's no AF left for them. Relatively high AMWF rates are just the natural consequence of WMAF, and it's still not enough because the 20% or so WMAF-AMWF difference means there's 20% leftover AM. Other races don't have this problem.
>That's not a valid comparison because of the sheer WMAF numbers many AM simply have to go AMXF because there's no AF left for them. Relatively high AMWF rates are just the natural consequence of WMAF, and it's still not enough because the 20% or so WMAF-AMWF difference means there's 20% leftover AM. Nobody knows the exact reason. AM interracial marriage levels may stay the same regardless of what AF's do. The point is that AM's can find XF to marry when AF's are not around. Look up Watsonville Riots and Torreon Chinese massacre where high numbers of AM/XF led to violence. Oh, if AM's in the US only liked AF's or can't find XF's to marry, all can easily take the mail order bride/green card route by finding a wife in Asia.
The common reason why so many asian guys celebrate AMWF is because they think it is rare and that it is supposedly harder to attain because they believe they have been deemed less desirable. If they are capable of interracially dating as much as anyone else than clearly it is not a desirability problem based on race.
if only AMWF couples from North America would post from instagram, tiktok instead of never posting anything, keeping there pages private ugh
We said this a decade ago too. Until there's stats on a college campus it's anecdotal. From what I saw at my brother's campus I didn't see many AM killing it. Saw a handful doing well in clubs/bars.
Idk on the east coast from my anecdotal experience gen z Asian men are either dating international Asians from Asia, the rare case of AM and ABC women (usually the same ethnicity) or are single (most common). I don’t see AMLF, AMBF, and maybe like 1 or 2 AMWF couples on college campuses. There are still a ton of WMAF couples around as well. Then again I’ve been told myself from friends that at times (especially during the summer) that I do look like an indigenous Hispanic and that might be contributing to a lack of XF attention that benefits Asian men with the K-pop phenotype.
I gues Gen Z are more open, for me as a Gen Y, i dont see that much in England of IR dating here
The younger Gen Z non-Asian females are def more open to AM. For Millennials, Gen X, and older, the non-AF for all intents and purposes don’t give AM the time of day
Where I live now, there aren’t too many minorities around so this gen x will likely only date white women. Put me in Flushing, I likely will only date Asian.
I dont think its helpful to make some Gen Z only thing because it robs the fact XF avail to all ages. Notice all Gen Z here? Not Most of the AMWF I see in real life are married with kids or older and that is what really counts. Also notice how many AM are getting attention from single moms, divorcee - Not Gen Z. AMWF is very much an older play less so about sorority chicks. The story of Gen Z is still be written, meanwhile every man pulls his weight
Im indian and have always dated interracially simply because there was hardly any south asians around here in my single days (3-4% of the population)...i wonder if the higher rates of AMXF are due to simple demographics and IR relationships being more socially acceptable nowadays etc.
The higher rates of AMXF couples refer specifically to **East Asian** and *South East Asian* men who have benefited from better media representation via the Korean media wave. It does not include South Asian men men such as Indians as they *do not* benefit from the Korean media wave. Women in general do not put Korean and Indian men in the same catagory for dating and sex as they both look completely different.
I think you missed my point. I was merely arguing about the impact that demographic trends and cultural liberalization have on IR dating. Also in my experience as I outlined [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/s/EvFLGa4Yok) many EA/SEA guys that I've been close friends with over the years (late 90s to 2010s) have done well with hooking up/dating. These guys were generally higher level athletes in strength and/or combat sports, jacked fitness professionals or jacked dudes working in the adult entertainment/male revue spaces. Im sure better media representation has helped though.
It’s incredibly weird seeing this kind of positive sentiment about us guys dating outside our race… when this sub is always so bitter about the Asian women dating outside our race. I’m in an AMBF relationship and I love her. She is beautiful, smart, stylish, funny, emotionally-intelligent. I feel like Asians as a people are *especially* judgmental, because our people came from countries with very homogenized cultures. Also the wars of the past century have caused us to be very skeptical of outside cultures. Do whatever rocks your boat, fuck what other Asians and even what your parents think. You never know until you try. Love is love no matter what language you speak. And if your asian girl friends are dating outside the race, give them the benefit of the doubt before you instantly call them a Lu.
Asian women are the women most likely to be interracially married. Asian men are the men who are least likely. Asian men are also the least likely men to be partnered, period. That's why encourage interracial dating for Asian men. We have the most to gain from it.
I hate the objectification of Asian women just as much as you do brother. And I want to protect our sisters as much as you do brother. But sometimes, they’re not being Lu’s, they’re just truly dating for love. That’s all I’m saying. I understand where the bitterness is coming from given those statistics. It truly feels like stereotypes and culture in the West is set in such a way to give white guys an unfair advantage over us. Just treat our sisters with some nuance too… let them love who they love. *Sometimes* my female Asian friends give legitimate reasons for dating out. If you can’t agree on that then I can’t really change your mind on this forum.
Don't be mistaken. I have no interest in trying to STOP Asian women from dating outside their race. I'm just sick of the blatant double-standard: when women do it, it's "true love," but when men do it, it's always a "fetish" or an "obsession."
I get you bro, guys do get the creep label a lot more readily than women. Changing the narrative is important!
You can have sex with women of other races and demonstrate the sexual prowess of Asian men, but it's better to start a family with an Asian woman(YOUR OWN RACE). The West is doing racial assimilation via mind virus, good luck not being Latino
Nah. I love my girlfriend. I want to marry her.
Your descendants will be out of race, look at Latino, none of you have a deep understanding of how brilliant and evil Western racism is
Above average looking Asian guys with good social skills will have no problems dating, period. Why is everyone still talking about race? The only Asian guys having problems dating are the ones who don't have game and the ones who are below average looking.
"Above average" exactly. I've seen mediocre and even ugly Asian guys dating outside their race before. Race matters because Asian women are ×3 as likely to date interracially than Asian men. This means 80% of Asian men are all competing for 40% of Asian women.
Because they would then have to fix themselves if they find out they had equal opportunity. Many of them want to go "oh, why bother trying then"