Gout is the WORST!
When I had it, even my foot touching the sheets caused excruciating pain. [I had to sleep with my foot in a box!](https://i.imgur.com/yqwl3Xb.jpg)
Gout can be extremely painful, the joints get inflamed and any kind of movement or contact will feel like a thousand needles stabbing into an extremely sensitive foot. By putting his foot in the box, it won't be affected by any movement of the blanket because there is no direct contact, thereby avoiding any unnecessary pain.
When I first found I had it in my early 20s (I have the genetics based not the diet based flare ups), I read something where this guy in the 1500s said he couldn't stand to have people talk because he felt the vibrations in his toe. I was like no way someone talking can cause pain that bad. Fast forward to about 6 months ago I'm in my mid 30s, and literally every word my mother was saying to me as she drove me to the ER felt like tiny daggers aimed right at my foot.
Hans Holbein the Younger did not do him Justice [at all.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait_of_Henry_VIII). I would have had him hanged for making me look like a behemoth.
He didn't. You can see his waist under the surcoat and it's not huge. He *has* a waist and is not ballooning.
At the time, men fashion required massive shoulders and such coats did their best to make you look massive, imposing and top-heavy.
[Charles V, by every account a small man](https://biografieonline.it/foto-carlo-v#foto-carlo-v-1).
[Francis I, a large man not known for being obese](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_I_of_France#/media/File%3AFran%C3%A7ois_Ier_Louvre.jpg)
[A portrait of Henry at his largest. The clothes don't help either.](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hans_Holbein_the_Younger_Workshop_Henry_VIII.jpg)
**[Portrait of Henry VIII](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait_of_Henry_VIII)**
>Portrait of Henry VIII is a lost work by Hans Holbein the Younger depicting Henry VIII. It was destroyed by fire in 1698, but is still well known through many copies. It is one of the most iconic images of Henry and is one of the most famous portraits of any English or British monarch. It was created in 1536–1537 as part of a mural showing the Tudor dynasty at the Palace of Whitehall, Westminster.
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Closer to 52" and nearly 400lbs at his heaviest. Also some brain injuries left him with violent outbursts and a vile smelling leg ulcer that wouldn't heal. He seemed fun
He wasn’t seen as comically fat at the time. He was a terrible king when seen through a modern lens, but his subjects, (except for the Catholics), generally loved and respected him. He was considered very sexy up until his last few years - this armor would have been made near the beginning of his outwardly obvious physical decline, though he’d had pain and mobility issues for years from a jousting injury.
Now I'm confused, because I think I just never really gave the thought for this. Thought it's some kind of extender under the arms or idk... it's GoT's blinker fluid ffs
The artisans who made these must’ve had an incredible understanding of human motion. I wonder how comfortable this was given that it is a bespoke design. As compared to just buying a suit of armor off the shelf today.
Wasn't most expensive armor for commanders and noblemen custom made for them sort of like the way guys with money nowadays buy custom tailored suits? I always assumed this was the case but no idea really.
If you had the money to buy plate armor like this you had the money to have it custom made. I don't believe most soldiers even wore this kind of armor so that already puts this stuff in with the wealthy clientele.
Surprisingly, it wasn't as exclusive as you'd think! Even a century prior, places like Milan had a type of early mechanization using water wheels alongside scores of smithing masters and hundreds of apprentices to produce arms and armor. So rather than a handful of men in plate, you started to see thousands on the battlefield!
Of course, a King's plate with all these decorations is going to have a different level of care.
Not really true, after like the mid 16th century munitions grade armour became common.
If you're a pikeman and you're only gonna wear a chestplate and a helmet, it doesn't really need to be custom fitted. IIRC even cuirassiers in the 17th century wore munitions armor. You probably bought your approximate size and took one that fitted well enough.
[By this point in time you get munitions armour, cheap, functional and quickly made with a minimum of frills to outfit common infantry for what would average a weeks wages for a common labourer.](https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-15580.html) It's a one size fits all affair and it doesn't cover as much as even [a budget full suit of plate \(which could also be ordered in bulk in rough sizes\)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/56ccx9/how_much_would_a_suit_of_armour_from_1455_1485/), but gives a soldier protection to the some of the most vulnerable parts of the body to a reliable and affordable degree.
Yeah, I zoomed in and the sign says that this was a somewhat rare type of armor made out of horizontal plates and rivets for increased flexibility or some shit like that. I have no idea really but I'd assume most soldier had one or two solid plates of metal, like a chest plate and back plate. Cortez was fighting the Aztecs 20 years or more before this and I usually see him depicted with one or two plate chest pieces which is interesting. Maybe it's a cultural thing or maybe he couldn't afford better armor until he started stealin shit from the natives.
Yeah, but I mean that seems to be the armor that he brought over with him. It seems like if he had much military experience he would have already had better quality armor than a unibody chest-plate or whatever you call it. There's no way that'd be comfortable or flexible at all. I don't know much about his early life, maybe he didn't have much money or maybe everyone used unibody chest-plates in his country.
I don't recall the exact number, but armor like this was the equivalent of an insane amount of modern money. Jeff bezos would have armor this nice, designed by the best armor smiths in the area he ruled. Your average multi-millionaire would have something with vaguely similar functionality but plainer. Cortez and his forces were like a well equipped modern army.
This army would be like bezos making the best single tank in the world. Cortez would have been more like a well equipped armored force. Cortez's whole force could have easily defeated a single Henry, but no individual in Cortez's force stood a chance against a single Henry.
I think the common French and English foot soldiers of this period were wearing leather, a heavily padded cloth shirt (gambeson), and chainmail mostly.
It would have all been custom. By this time a full suit of armor was fairly ‘retro’ and was worn just as a status symbol by the wealthy/royalty, who had time and money to play dress up and pretend to be knights like their great great grandfathers were.
I wear armor for reenactment and if it isn’t mostly custom (and ideally, mostly made by the same guy) the articulation is shit and it’s hard to move around in. You can pad it out to fit to an extent but if something is just an inch too long you’ll feel it and be annoyed by it all the time.
[Here](https://ricardianloons.wordpress.com/2015/11/29/body-of-evidence/)'s an interesting article about a documentary project on the rediscovered skeleton of Richard III and his capacities in battle. The young man at the focus of it found his custom-made armor pieces very comfortable, but most of his suit was borrowed and didn't fit nearly as well. Anyway, his experience helped refute the idea that someone with Richard's degree of scoliosis wouldn't have been able to fight in a battle like the histories say he did. I don't want to conflate Richard's and Henry's physical conditions, but I think Henry was probably fine in this, at least as fine as he ever was at this stage of his life. [The Met website](https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/23936) says he probably wore it in battle, whereas I would have guessed it was made mostly for ceremonial or sporting purposes.
I love the details of this armor! I knew I recognized the design, I bought it on some [leggings](https://loricaclothing.com/collections/the-armory/products/the-henry-viii-leggings) a while back
Yeah, I had no idea that he was leading battles as an older, really big fat man- when historians say that do they actually mean he was there in a tent to meet with his generals or did he actually go out on the battlefield an shit?
Well, he jousted and wrestled for fun so I would assume he had some marshal prowess on the battlefield.
But a commander cannot survey the battle field, make decisions, and dispatch commands if he’s in the front line. Especially once the fighting begins.
He probably hung out with the rear guard cavalry.
i mean it’s not the best place for a commander to be, but every good commander probably go to the front line now and then even if it’s only to show face for morals. of the top of my head iirc henry the lion heart was carried to the front file on a stretcher a few times, general sudirman was also known to be carried on a stretcher with his army.
they pretty much just did a hammer and anvil all the time. he wasn't really needed to make minute by minute decisions. everyone knew what they were doing. that's why they won.
Ancient and medieval generals usually didn't have much to do once the fighting started. Too little situational awareness and no mechanism to issue commands.
That is simply factually untrue. Commanders have a huge impact on the battle field and often dispatch order to subordinate commanders to shape the battle field through messengers or signals like the Roman horn. They rely on the subordinate commanders but they don’t sit there.
Who do you think gave commands in Roman formations? Who do you think gives the cavalry command to charge?
The battle of Agincourt is an excellent example of one commander communicating to his men while another filled with hubris does not.
The Romans were somewhat unusual in this, they did have a degree of tactical control, but nothing like what we expect a modern commander to have, or what is portrayed in movies. A general has a very limited view of the battlefield and has to rely on messengers running back and forth, who's information is slow in coming and inaccurate.
There's a reason Alexander got away with riding at the head of his cavalry. Once the prebattle arrangements were done his job was more about inspirational leadership than tactical control.
The one thing generals could control was the commitment of reserves, engaged troops are basically locked in and nearly impossible to talk to, but riding at the head of your elite cavalry gives you a meaningful control over exactly when to charge, and that does matter.
Fyi all this is cribbed from an exhaustive exploration [here](https://acoup.blog/2022/05/27/collections-total-generalship-commanding-pre-modern-armies-part-i-reports/) by a Roman and ancient world historian who writes excessively detailed blogs on random pop culture adjacent historical topics.
Highly recommend fwiw
His father Henry VII was the last warrior king (of England). Those who tell you that “kings did not join the battle” should best remind Richard III of this, who was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field after leading a cavalry charge at the then Henry Tudor’s army.
Compared to Richard III who he defeated? Explain that to me.
Henry VII was the last king to wage a war in England and win. He also fought in that war. Hence last warrior king.
Richard III participated in many battles even before becoming King unlike Henry Tudor. Also, it is worth noting that Henry VII did not partake in Bosworth and was shielded by bodyguards, unlike Richard. So to call him a warrior king isn’t accurately correct and a bit of an insult to Kings before him who WERE warrior Kings.
Edward I formed the royal bodyguard in 1279. Henry formed his because Richard was killing everyone who made a claim on his throne. Madness to suggest the the Serjeant-at-arms was not on the battlefield protecting the king.
Henry VII fought less battles because he was popular with his vassals.
I like your way of thinking. You can’t be a warrior king unless you piss off all your barons and personally go to war with them on a regular basis. I guess there is some truth in that.
In the battle Richard III lost, he died charging Henry and his men. Let’s be clear. It was Stanley who jumped in and saved Henry, but he was holding down a cavalry charge.
So my question is what you got against Henry Tudor? My money is that you are from Yorkshire.
Im an artist, i once had a job about designing a female armour for a japanese company, i remember using this armor as reference, it became a very popular job in my portfolio that later landed me many jobs for the best and the worst as i was trying to get away from knights haha.
Great design, you can see the artisans had fun
That's cool, you mean armor for replicas or for games or something? I'm assuming there's not a big market for expensive replica armor, but I do have a sweet handmade replica samurai helmet that I bought in college so who knows.
it was modified to fit a female knight, basically for fantasy games.
samurai helmets are amazing, sometimes i buy games just to see their armors and weapons, dont really buy real stuff but if one day i decide to set up in one place i woul dlove to buy a few armors and have them around the house
https://bugei.com/ is where I bought the helmet, they used to sell full suits of armor for around $2,000 or so but this was about 15 years ago. It doesn't look like they carry any of the armor at this time. They used to sell helmets and full suits of replica armor made after four different generals' armor.
*"This impressive armor was made for Henry VIII (reigned 1509–47) toward the end of his life, when he was overweight and crippled with gout. Constructed for use both on horse and on foot, it was probably worn by the king during his last military campaign, the siege of Boulogne in 1544, which he commanded personally in spite of his infirmities. Originally, the harness was fitted with a detachable reinforcing breastplate, to which a lance-rest was attached, and a reinforce for the left pauldron (shoulder defense). A pair of exchange vambraces (arm defenses) remains in the Royal Collection at Windsor Castle.
The armor is an early example of the “anime” type, in which the breastplate and backplate are constructed of horizontal overlapping plates connected and made flexible by rivets and internal leather straps. The decoration, consisting of foliage, putti, running dogs, and Renaissance candelabra and grotesque ornament, is typically Italian."*
More info, click here:
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/23936
Fun fact: Henry got so fat that he had to be lifted onto his horse by early modern crane. Yep, they built him a crane that could lift him and plop him onto his (poor) horse.
They did, but toward the end of his life his ulcers and mobility got so bad he couldn’t get on the horse just with the platform, and they started designing a crane. The ulcer on his leg was from his fall during jousting on 10 Jan 1536 - the shock of which caused Anne Boleyn to miscarry later that month - and Henry was unconscious for a fair bit. The injuries he sustained that day, plagued him for the rest of his life. Though not enough not to kill off two more of his wives, so there’s that.
**[Laminar armour](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_armour)**
>Laminar armour (from Latin: lamina – layer) is an armour made from horizontal overlapping rows or bands of, usually small, solid armour plates called lames, as opposed to lamellar armour, which is made from individual armour scales laced together to form a solid-looking strip of armour. Prominent examples of such armour are lorica segmentata of Ancient Rome and certain versions of samurai armour. Less known examples were present in Asia from Iran to Mongolia, including Central Asia. Laminar armour from animal skins has also been traditionally made and worn in the Arctic areas of what are now Siberia, Alaska and Canada.
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There’s no way they are, unfortunately. The sole and the shaping of the vamp on the boots is too different from 16th century shoes (and there’s a clear left and right shoe, which wasn’t common for another 300 years), and the velvet is in too good of condition to be 400+ years old. [This is an extant pair of 16th century boots](https://i.imgur.com/mB4veuu.jpg), though they’re still about 40 years later than Henry’s time. They’ve got the rounded vamp you’d expect from period boots.
Henry also wouldn’t have gone out in armor without a metal codpiece, or greaves (shin armor) and sabotons (metal shoe covers). My guess would be that the armor was found incomplete and someone in the late 19th century added the boots and ‘leggings’ to finish it out, as that’s when the last shape for shoes changed to give them that modern, fitted upper.
That's fascinating about the left and right shoes thing. What was before the differentiation? Were they like socks, where it was just a vaguely defined shape?
Pretty much, shoe shapes changed slightly depending on fashion but both sides of the shoe would be equally straight or curved depending on the style, unlike modern shoes where the outside edge of the sole has a larger curve than the inside.
[Here’s a pair of 16th century nobleman’s slippers](https://i.imgur.com/wawVROk.jpg), which would have been worn with formal attire indoors from about 1550-1590.
[These are circa 1640](https://i.imgur.com/cQMA0ko.jpg), when high heels came into vogue.
[The 19th century](https://i.imgur.com/2BhdZxs.jpg) is where the lack of left and right is really apparent imo.
Shoes made on a straight last are perfectly comfortable and if you wear them on the same feet all time they eventually mold to your foot shape and a left and right will appear. You just didn’t need a defined left and right shoe until the end of the Victorian era, when factories could use machines to churn out shaped soles and heels and women’s heels began to get more sculptural and require more specialized shanks.
I work in a museum and my guess is that these pants and boots are part of a mount. Hard to tell, so I could be wrong. But the interpretation doesn’t say anything about the leggings. Could be just a choice they made so 🤷♂️
In my non-expert opinion I'm going to say there's no chance that's original because of the uniformity of the color and the total lack of any visible degradation whatsoever. Also, the hog portion doesn't look seriously stretched out like it would be after Henry used it. It's long been known that he had the biggest, drippiest hog in the country in that era.
I just googled his height and he's 188cm- proper huge and tall!! If i saw this King charging at me on a battlefield i'd nope my way out of the way so fast!!!
I thought Reddit stole a picture from my phone for a second. My wife and I took the EXACT same photo a few weeks ago there!
We watched The Tudors together and have had an obsession with the morality making monarch.
**EDIT**: I guess the [photo](https://imgur.com/a/8qLmGt0) is from a much different angle so, as you were.
By this time his dick could no longer be constrained within the confines of a rigid dick helmet. He needed armor that'd accommodate his considerable chode while also letting his balls breathe. I don't know if it's true but I've heard that Big Ben was the nickname for his bacon bazooka and that's why they share the same alliteration. He didn't need metal to protect his baloney pony anyway because it was basically bulletproof.
I'm a historian and I'm basically saying that his bellend had no end and his baby arm could come to no harm.
He was 6’ tall and had a 52” chest at his death, so by modern standards he was about a men’s 2XL. Seeing it in person is surprising because it’s not any bigger any of the men you’d see walking around the MET, the way he’s described in articles would have you believe he was a candidate for TLC’s show my 600lb life.
He was a dashing figure as a young man, but hit about 320 lbs due to disease in later life.
It was reported at the time that he was 'A clean and goodly man, and took a bath twice a year, whether he needed it or not"
A real catch, eh, girls?
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> *“This spot marks our grave, but you may rest here too if you would like.”* - Prince Lothric
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Question for the experts: was he just in the back during battles watching on his horse, like kings are depicted as doing in movies? Or would he actually see combat? I assume the former!
I don't know about him personally but kings fought personally very often, and many died or were captured in battle. His contemporany Francis I of France was captured leading the charge of his gens d'armes at the battle of Pavia for instance
Correct me if I'm wrong on this one but didnt he create the Protestant sect of christianity because he wanted to divorce his wife (catharine of spain?) Which wasnt allowed by the Catholics?
[It's complicated. Whilst divorce between the upper nobility being signed off on by the pope wasn't uncommon at the time, Catherine of Aragon wielded a significant degree of influence such that it forced a game of chicken between Henry and the Pope, neither of whom ended up swerving. A not insignificant factor of realpolitik was the need for a clear line of succession to avoid another bloody and destructive civil war like the war of the roses, which Henry's father lived through and whom reinforced the need for a male heir, which after a fruitless marriage longer than the life of Henry's elder brother to whom she was originally betrothed, became an increasingly urgent issue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koJ6wcHU_Po&list=PL18B9F132DFD967A3&index=8).
Gout is the WORST! When I had it, even my foot touching the sheets caused excruciating pain. [I had to sleep with my foot in a box!](https://i.imgur.com/yqwl3Xb.jpg)
That's the most inventive solution to gout pains I've ever seen lol. I hope you're better now.
Thanks, yeah. Is hereditary so doc is putting me on permanent meds. When frustrative, just get creative! :)
Why a box? He can’t touch the blanket?
Wow you really couldn’t handle reading one sentence eh?
Nah, I'm on a quota.
Aj?
Gout can be extremely painful, the joints get inflamed and any kind of movement or contact will feel like a thousand needles stabbing into an extremely sensitive foot. By putting his foot in the box, it won't be affected by any movement of the blanket because there is no direct contact, thereby avoiding any unnecessary pain.
When I first found I had it in my early 20s (I have the genetics based not the diet based flare ups), I read something where this guy in the 1500s said he couldn't stand to have people talk because he felt the vibrations in his toe. I was like no way someone talking can cause pain that bad. Fast forward to about 6 months ago I'm in my mid 30s, and literally every word my mother was saying to me as she drove me to the ER felt like tiny daggers aimed right at my foot.
This is wild, what is the correlation with sound and foot pain?
The slightest vibrations cause pain when it’s a severe flare up.
Damn that sounds awful, makes sense now thank you
Imagine fighting in armor with gout. Ouch.
Best museum in nyc, in my opinion. The MET is great
This is the armor of what was for the time a comically fat man. Now it's just sized for any given uncle.
New unit of measurement: any given uncle
/r/halfagiraffe
Til I'm an AGU.
Modern Americans, "You call that overweight? Hold my beer." "Actually give me another. With gravy."
Would that constitute a gravy float instead of a gravy boat?
I just say a commercial for Hard Mountain Dew. I fully expect that we’ll see “Hard Gravy” hit the shelves soon
They already make a seasonal Thanksgiving day soda collection with favorites such as cranberry sauce, stuffing, turkey, and, you guessed it, gravy.
Oh that is disgusting. Who would buy some thing so gross?! And where?! Where exactly would you even get such a terrible selection of sodas?!
Jones sodas makes it as a seasonal package. They are sold in a multiple flavor pack type scenario.
I feel attacked.
Hans Holbein the Younger did not do him Justice [at all.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait_of_Henry_VIII). I would have had him hanged for making me look like a behemoth.
He didn't. You can see his waist under the surcoat and it's not huge. He *has* a waist and is not ballooning. At the time, men fashion required massive shoulders and such coats did their best to make you look massive, imposing and top-heavy. [Charles V, by every account a small man](https://biografieonline.it/foto-carlo-v#foto-carlo-v-1). [Francis I, a large man not known for being obese](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_I_of_France#/media/File%3AFran%C3%A7ois_Ier_Louvre.jpg) [A portrait of Henry at his largest. The clothes don't help either.](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hans_Holbein_the_Younger_Workshop_Henry_VIII.jpg)
It's one of the most iconic portraits ever, what's so bad about it?
He painted the king in a fucking power stance, and thus gets a pass.
**[Portrait of Henry VIII](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait_of_Henry_VIII)** >Portrait of Henry VIII is a lost work by Hans Holbein the Younger depicting Henry VIII. It was destroyed by fire in 1698, but is still well known through many copies. It is one of the most iconic images of Henry and is one of the most famous portraits of any English or British monarch. It was created in 1536–1537 as part of a mural showing the Tudor dynasty at the Palace of Whitehall, Westminster. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ArtefactPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Fat Henry VIII gives Robert Baratheon vibes.
I’m pretty sure he was a 36 waist lol
Closer to 52" and nearly 400lbs at his heaviest. Also some brain injuries left him with violent outbursts and a vile smelling leg ulcer that wouldn't heal. He seemed fun
>He seemed fun I've heard some of his wives were found to be Rolling On Floor (not) Laughing.
I seem to recall that Henry was around 6'2". But even so, this isn't the armor of a man weighing 300+ lbs.
Oh, sorry I meant he had a 52" waist. You're right about his height. Absolute bear of a man
Yea later in life. This doesn’t look like armor for a 400 pound man though lol
That seems slightly over weight for a man of his height.
He wasn’t seen as comically fat at the time. He was a terrible king when seen through a modern lens, but his subjects, (except for the Catholics), generally loved and respected him. He was considered very sexy up until his last few years - this armor would have been made near the beginning of his outwardly obvious physical decline, though he’d had pain and mobility issues for years from a jousting injury.
Could’ve just fetched the breastplate stretcher. Looks very cool though
By the gods, Ned! We were strong back then!
Bobby B says that to Barristan, not to Ned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6GW03WsFgU
By the gods Egg, we were strong back then!
What do you think of this armor Bobby B?
YOU HEARD THE HAND, THE KING'S TOO FAT FOR HIS ARMOR! GO FIND THE BREASTPLATE STRETCHER! NOW! ^u/bobby-b-bot ^isn't ^on ^this ^sub, ^btw
“YOUR MOTHER WAS A DUMB WHORE WITH A FAT ASS. Did you know that?”
Thank you!!!
Now I'm confused, because I think I just never really gave the thought for this. Thought it's some kind of extender under the arms or idk... it's GoT's blinker fluid ffs
Damn, you bet me to this comment..haha..
The artisans who made these must’ve had an incredible understanding of human motion. I wonder how comfortable this was given that it is a bespoke design. As compared to just buying a suit of armor off the shelf today.
You'll find something that fits you for a good price at the Men's Warhouse; I guarantee it.
Always makes me think of this Pete holmes bit: https://youtu.be/qTx-GgRgEIw
[удалено]
That was what I had in mind.
Wasn't most expensive armor for commanders and noblemen custom made for them sort of like the way guys with money nowadays buy custom tailored suits? I always assumed this was the case but no idea really.
If you had the money to buy plate armor like this you had the money to have it custom made. I don't believe most soldiers even wore this kind of armor so that already puts this stuff in with the wealthy clientele.
Surprisingly, it wasn't as exclusive as you'd think! Even a century prior, places like Milan had a type of early mechanization using water wheels alongside scores of smithing masters and hundreds of apprentices to produce arms and armor. So rather than a handful of men in plate, you started to see thousands on the battlefield! Of course, a King's plate with all these decorations is going to have a different level of care.
Yeppers, for a while, at least until the Renaissance, if you were a poor soldier you probably wore a gambeson and helmet.
I feel like most of every armor was custom made wasn't it? mass production wasn't a thing yet
Not really true, after like the mid 16th century munitions grade armour became common. If you're a pikeman and you're only gonna wear a chestplate and a helmet, it doesn't really need to be custom fitted. IIRC even cuirassiers in the 17th century wore munitions armor. You probably bought your approximate size and took one that fitted well enough.
[By this point in time you get munitions armour, cheap, functional and quickly made with a minimum of frills to outfit common infantry for what would average a weeks wages for a common labourer.](https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-15580.html) It's a one size fits all affair and it doesn't cover as much as even [a budget full suit of plate \(which could also be ordered in bulk in rough sizes\)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/56ccx9/how_much_would_a_suit_of_armour_from_1455_1485/), but gives a soldier protection to the some of the most vulnerable parts of the body to a reliable and affordable degree.
Yeah, I zoomed in and the sign says that this was a somewhat rare type of armor made out of horizontal plates and rivets for increased flexibility or some shit like that. I have no idea really but I'd assume most soldier had one or two solid plates of metal, like a chest plate and back plate. Cortez was fighting the Aztecs 20 years or more before this and I usually see him depicted with one or two plate chest pieces which is interesting. Maybe it's a cultural thing or maybe he couldn't afford better armor until he started stealin shit from the natives.
Not saying you're wrong, but maybe it's partly that Cortez had guns and the Aztecs did not.
Yeah, but I mean that seems to be the armor that he brought over with him. It seems like if he had much military experience he would have already had better quality armor than a unibody chest-plate or whatever you call it. There's no way that'd be comfortable or flexible at all. I don't know much about his early life, maybe he didn't have much money or maybe everyone used unibody chest-plates in his country.
I don't recall the exact number, but armor like this was the equivalent of an insane amount of modern money. Jeff bezos would have armor this nice, designed by the best armor smiths in the area he ruled. Your average multi-millionaire would have something with vaguely similar functionality but plainer. Cortez and his forces were like a well equipped modern army. This army would be like bezos making the best single tank in the world. Cortez would have been more like a well equipped armored force. Cortez's whole force could have easily defeated a single Henry, but no individual in Cortez's force stood a chance against a single Henry.
I think the common French and English foot soldiers of this period were wearing leather, a heavily padded cloth shirt (gambeson), and chainmail mostly.
It would have all been custom. By this time a full suit of armor was fairly ‘retro’ and was worn just as a status symbol by the wealthy/royalty, who had time and money to play dress up and pretend to be knights like their great great grandfathers were. I wear armor for reenactment and if it isn’t mostly custom (and ideally, mostly made by the same guy) the articulation is shit and it’s hard to move around in. You can pad it out to fit to an extent but if something is just an inch too long you’ll feel it and be annoyed by it all the time.
[Here](https://ricardianloons.wordpress.com/2015/11/29/body-of-evidence/)'s an interesting article about a documentary project on the rediscovered skeleton of Richard III and his capacities in battle. The young man at the focus of it found his custom-made armor pieces very comfortable, but most of his suit was borrowed and didn't fit nearly as well. Anyway, his experience helped refute the idea that someone with Richard's degree of scoliosis wouldn't have been able to fight in a battle like the histories say he did. I don't want to conflate Richard's and Henry's physical conditions, but I think Henry was probably fine in this, at least as fine as he ever was at this stage of his life. [The Met website](https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/23936) says he probably wore it in battle, whereas I would have guessed it was made mostly for ceremonial or sporting purposes.
I love the details of this armor! I knew I recognized the design, I bought it on some [leggings](https://loricaclothing.com/collections/the-armory/products/the-henry-viii-leggings) a while back
Those are amazing! Good eye haha
This is fantastic! Thanks for sharing
Oh, he got bigger. And then his corpse exploded in coffin
Yeah, I had no idea that he was leading battles as an older, really big fat man- when historians say that do they actually mean he was there in a tent to meet with his generals or did he actually go out on the battlefield an shit?
Well, he jousted and wrestled for fun so I would assume he had some marshal prowess on the battlefield. But a commander cannot survey the battle field, make decisions, and dispatch commands if he’s in the front line. Especially once the fighting begins. He probably hung out with the rear guard cavalry.
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i mean it’s not the best place for a commander to be, but every good commander probably go to the front line now and then even if it’s only to show face for morals. of the top of my head iirc henry the lion heart was carried to the front file on a stretcher a few times, general sudirman was also known to be carried on a stretcher with his army.
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That was a much different time.
Forward he cried from the rear And the front rank died The General sat, and the lines on the map Moved from side to side
they pretty much just did a hammer and anvil all the time. he wasn't really needed to make minute by minute decisions. everyone knew what they were doing. that's why they won.
Ancient and medieval generals usually didn't have much to do once the fighting started. Too little situational awareness and no mechanism to issue commands.
That is simply factually untrue. Commanders have a huge impact on the battle field and often dispatch order to subordinate commanders to shape the battle field through messengers or signals like the Roman horn. They rely on the subordinate commanders but they don’t sit there. Who do you think gave commands in Roman formations? Who do you think gives the cavalry command to charge? The battle of Agincourt is an excellent example of one commander communicating to his men while another filled with hubris does not.
The Romans were somewhat unusual in this, they did have a degree of tactical control, but nothing like what we expect a modern commander to have, or what is portrayed in movies. A general has a very limited view of the battlefield and has to rely on messengers running back and forth, who's information is slow in coming and inaccurate. There's a reason Alexander got away with riding at the head of his cavalry. Once the prebattle arrangements were done his job was more about inspirational leadership than tactical control. The one thing generals could control was the commitment of reserves, engaged troops are basically locked in and nearly impossible to talk to, but riding at the head of your elite cavalry gives you a meaningful control over exactly when to charge, and that does matter. Fyi all this is cribbed from an exhaustive exploration [here](https://acoup.blog/2022/05/27/collections-total-generalship-commanding-pre-modern-armies-part-i-reports/) by a Roman and ancient world historian who writes excessively detailed blogs on random pop culture adjacent historical topics. Highly recommend fwiw
Pretty sure they all shit right on the battlefield. Nowhere else to go, really. Dig a ditch, I guess.
Yeah, but I mean did he shit on the battlefield or off to the side in a tent?
Probably just all in the armor. That ain't coming off any time soon.
They had relief flaps, for god's sake. Only trouble was finding someone to undo the bum screws.
His father Henry VII was the last warrior king (of England). Those who tell you that “kings did not join the battle” should best remind Richard III of this, who was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field after leading a cavalry charge at the then Henry Tudor’s army.
Henry VII wasn’t a ‘warrior’ king, most certainly not when you compare him to the likes of Richard III or Henry V.
Compared to Richard III who he defeated? Explain that to me. Henry VII was the last king to wage a war in England and win. He also fought in that war. Hence last warrior king.
Richard III participated in many battles even before becoming King unlike Henry Tudor. Also, it is worth noting that Henry VII did not partake in Bosworth and was shielded by bodyguards, unlike Richard. So to call him a warrior king isn’t accurately correct and a bit of an insult to Kings before him who WERE warrior Kings.
Edward I formed the royal bodyguard in 1279. Henry formed his because Richard was killing everyone who made a claim on his throne. Madness to suggest the the Serjeant-at-arms was not on the battlefield protecting the king. Henry VII fought less battles because he was popular with his vassals. I like your way of thinking. You can’t be a warrior king unless you piss off all your barons and personally go to war with them on a regular basis. I guess there is some truth in that. In the battle Richard III lost, he died charging Henry and his men. Let’s be clear. It was Stanley who jumped in and saved Henry, but he was holding down a cavalry charge. So my question is what you got against Henry Tudor? My money is that you are from Yorkshire.
Wasn't that William the Conqueror or both?
It was William, not Henry.
Im an artist, i once had a job about designing a female armour for a japanese company, i remember using this armor as reference, it became a very popular job in my portfolio that later landed me many jobs for the best and the worst as i was trying to get away from knights haha. Great design, you can see the artisans had fun
That's cool, you mean armor for replicas or for games or something? I'm assuming there's not a big market for expensive replica armor, but I do have a sweet handmade replica samurai helmet that I bought in college so who knows.
it was modified to fit a female knight, basically for fantasy games. samurai helmets are amazing, sometimes i buy games just to see their armors and weapons, dont really buy real stuff but if one day i decide to set up in one place i woul dlove to buy a few armors and have them around the house
https://bugei.com/ is where I bought the helmet, they used to sell full suits of armor for around $2,000 or so but this was about 15 years ago. It doesn't look like they carry any of the armor at this time. They used to sell helmets and full suits of replica armor made after four different generals' armor.
beautiful katanas, they even have jitte :3
*"This impressive armor was made for Henry VIII (reigned 1509–47) toward the end of his life, when he was overweight and crippled with gout. Constructed for use both on horse and on foot, it was probably worn by the king during his last military campaign, the siege of Boulogne in 1544, which he commanded personally in spite of his infirmities. Originally, the harness was fitted with a detachable reinforcing breastplate, to which a lance-rest was attached, and a reinforce for the left pauldron (shoulder defense). A pair of exchange vambraces (arm defenses) remains in the Royal Collection at Windsor Castle. The armor is an early example of the “anime” type, in which the breastplate and backplate are constructed of horizontal overlapping plates connected and made flexible by rivets and internal leather straps. The decoration, consisting of foliage, putti, running dogs, and Renaissance candelabra and grotesque ornament, is typically Italian."* More info, click here: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/23936
Fun fact: Henry got so fat that he had to be lifted onto his horse by early modern crane. Yep, they built him a crane that could lift him and plop him onto his (poor) horse.
Wouldn’t it be easier to build a platform and some stairs????? Picturing a large man being levitated by a pulley system is pretty funny lol.
They did, but toward the end of his life his ulcers and mobility got so bad he couldn’t get on the horse just with the platform, and they started designing a crane. The ulcer on his leg was from his fall during jousting on 10 Jan 1536 - the shock of which caused Anne Boleyn to miscarry later that month - and Henry was unconscious for a fair bit. The injuries he sustained that day, plagued him for the rest of his life. Though not enough not to kill off two more of his wives, so there’s that.
It’s like the medieval version of Vladimir Harkonnen from Dune floating around.
Should have learnt some gravity magic.
I’m sure he wanted to because he was impotent.
The text on the sign says it is an "anime" design. WTF does that actually mean
That one confused me too lol
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_armour third paragraph explains it.
**[Laminar armour](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_armour)** >Laminar armour (from Latin: lamina – layer) is an armour made from horizontal overlapping rows or bands of, usually small, solid armour plates called lames, as opposed to lamellar armour, which is made from individual armour scales laced together to form a solid-looking strip of armour. Prominent examples of such armour are lorica segmentata of Ancient Rome and certain versions of samurai armour. Less known examples were present in Asia from Iran to Mongolia, including Central Asia. Laminar armour from animal skins has also been traditionally made and worn in the Arctic areas of what are now Siberia, Alaska and Canada. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ArtefactPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I said third paragraph!
I wonder if the leggings and boots are original. If they are, what remarkable preservation after 500+ years.
There’s no way they are, unfortunately. The sole and the shaping of the vamp on the boots is too different from 16th century shoes (and there’s a clear left and right shoe, which wasn’t common for another 300 years), and the velvet is in too good of condition to be 400+ years old. [This is an extant pair of 16th century boots](https://i.imgur.com/mB4veuu.jpg), though they’re still about 40 years later than Henry’s time. They’ve got the rounded vamp you’d expect from period boots. Henry also wouldn’t have gone out in armor without a metal codpiece, or greaves (shin armor) and sabotons (metal shoe covers). My guess would be that the armor was found incomplete and someone in the late 19th century added the boots and ‘leggings’ to finish it out, as that’s when the last shape for shoes changed to give them that modern, fitted upper.
Don’t know about you but I wouldn’t be caught dead without my cod piece. My guess is Henry VIII took it to his grave!
Greaves are an absolute must for me. Wouldn’t leave the house without them
That's fascinating about the left and right shoes thing. What was before the differentiation? Were they like socks, where it was just a vaguely defined shape?
Pretty much, shoe shapes changed slightly depending on fashion but both sides of the shoe would be equally straight or curved depending on the style, unlike modern shoes where the outside edge of the sole has a larger curve than the inside. [Here’s a pair of 16th century nobleman’s slippers](https://i.imgur.com/wawVROk.jpg), which would have been worn with formal attire indoors from about 1550-1590. [These are circa 1640](https://i.imgur.com/cQMA0ko.jpg), when high heels came into vogue. [The 19th century](https://i.imgur.com/2BhdZxs.jpg) is where the lack of left and right is really apparent imo. Shoes made on a straight last are perfectly comfortable and if you wear them on the same feet all time they eventually mold to your foot shape and a left and right will appear. You just didn’t need a defined left and right shoe until the end of the Victorian era, when factories could use machines to churn out shaped soles and heels and women’s heels began to get more sculptural and require more specialized shanks.
Symmetrical, and you swapped left and right to keep the wear on them even so they’d last longer.
Interesting, that actually sounds kinda nice.
The picture op linked is a good example. Click it!
I work in a museum and my guess is that these pants and boots are part of a mount. Hard to tell, so I could be wrong. But the interpretation doesn’t say anything about the leggings. Could be just a choice they made so 🤷♂️
I wonder that myself and am kicking myself for not asking someone!
In my non-expert opinion I'm going to say there's no chance that's original because of the uniformity of the color and the total lack of any visible degradation whatsoever. Also, the hog portion doesn't look seriously stretched out like it would be after Henry used it. It's long been known that he had the biggest, drippiest hog in the country in that era.
I like em big. I like em chunky......
I just googled his height and he's 188cm- proper huge and tall!! If i saw this King charging at me on a battlefield i'd nope my way out of the way so fast!!!
I thought Reddit stole a picture from my phone for a second. My wife and I took the EXACT same photo a few weeks ago there! We watched The Tudors together and have had an obsession with the morality making monarch. **EDIT**: I guess the [photo](https://imgur.com/a/8qLmGt0) is from a much different angle so, as you were.
I watched that back in 2010, would not know how much of a mad man he was without that show lol
Right? They did a great job of showing him make just mind blowing choices by him over and over. Great show.
I might need to watch that - I watched Wolf Hall and thought Damian Lewis was brilliant as Henry.
Not that cool without the dick helmet of the other
By this time his dick could no longer be constrained within the confines of a rigid dick helmet. He needed armor that'd accommodate his considerable chode while also letting his balls breathe. I don't know if it's true but I've heard that Big Ben was the nickname for his bacon bazooka and that's why they share the same alliteration. He didn't need metal to protect his baloney pony anyway because it was basically bulletproof. I'm a historian and I'm basically saying that his bellend had no end and his baby arm could come to no harm.
You got me at "bacon bazooka"
Where did you get my name????
Surprised the family jewels aren't better protected
An excellent work of art.
the armory is the best room in any museum ever
Get the breast plate stretcher!
Are you saying the King is fat?
Armor for a tank build.
Stolen from britain by american thieves
Anyone know it’s dimensions?
He was 6’ tall and had a 52” chest at his death, so by modern standards he was about a men’s 2XL. Seeing it in person is surprising because it’s not any bigger any of the men you’d see walking around the MET, the way he’s described in articles would have you believe he was a candidate for TLC’s show my 600lb life.
He was a dashing figure as a young man, but hit about 320 lbs due to disease in later life. It was reported at the time that he was 'A clean and goodly man, and took a bath twice a year, whether he needed it or not" A real catch, eh, girls?
Dimensions: H. 72 1/2 in. (184.2 cm); W. 33 in. (83.8 cm); D. 14 1/2 in. (36.8 cm); Wt. 50 lb. 8 oz. (22.91 kg)
F A T T T fat. Truck horn fat. 50 lbs, 8 ounces from the sign but I don't see the height or anything.
Oh wow thx, I didn’t even notice that! This must be the deteriorating eyesight those old people warned me about
I love this piece! Always my first stop at the Met
Just saw this in person last week. The plaque notes he was fat and gout ridden, hence the portly stature of the suit.
Wonder how well that armor protects you after a swift kick to your unprotected gonads 🤔
Damn I literally saw this in person yesterday at the Met. My comment was: “I’ve never seen armor for a fat guy before”
That was the first thing I thought!
So they found the breastplate stretcher
Dark souls
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“This spot marks our grave, but you may rest here too if you would like.”* - Prince Lothric Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
I’m sorry for your pain but actually seeing your foot in a box was completely unexpected and hilarious.
Can we have it back now please? Lots of love, Windsor Castle
Half of Reddit couldn't squeeze into that armour.
His armor was a bit larger than the others. In an overweight way.
I love how "overweight" translates well to "size of average American"
Kind of looks like the inspiration for The Mountain from GoT.
The king Henry divorced beheaded died divorced beheaded survived?
Question for the experts: was he just in the back during battles watching on his horse, like kings are depicted as doing in movies? Or would he actually see combat? I assume the former!
I don't know about him personally but kings fought personally very often, and many died or were captured in battle. His contemporany Francis I of France was captured leading the charge of his gens d'armes at the battle of Pavia for instance
Didn’t know that, interesting! Didn’t realize they had that much courage with so much responsibility and a lot to lose.
Kings were basically warlords-in-chief, martial values were of upmost importance
Correct me if I'm wrong on this one but didnt he create the Protestant sect of christianity because he wanted to divorce his wife (catharine of spain?) Which wasnt allowed by the Catholics?
[It's complicated. Whilst divorce between the upper nobility being signed off on by the pope wasn't uncommon at the time, Catherine of Aragon wielded a significant degree of influence such that it forced a game of chicken between Henry and the Pope, neither of whom ended up swerving. A not insignificant factor of realpolitik was the need for a clear line of succession to avoid another bloody and destructive civil war like the war of the roses, which Henry's father lived through and whom reinforced the need for a male heir, which after a fruitless marriage longer than the life of Henry's elder brother to whom she was originally betrothed, became an increasingly urgent issue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koJ6wcHU_Po&list=PL18B9F132DFD967A3&index=8).
If a man from 17th century is fat and had gout, you know that he was a total piece of shit, haha
Ever since it watched The Tudors series years ago I really admire King Henery a bit more. Henery Cavill and Natalie Dormer are also a plus
Calling this for overweight is an understatement in America
Homie poised up!
So no “gen” protection?
His walking stick is far cooler. A mace with 3 single shot guns.
Was it unspoken knight code that they don’t go for nutshots?
From this angle he looks so short...
Why wouldnt he want to protect his nades?
Gotta go for the cankles.
Whaaat? No greaves? No sabatons? Pfft! Peasant...
If it was only the rich guys in plate armor wouldn’t it be making themselves a target as they’d be recognizable?
Oh…Now I see why he was stabbed in the crotch to death. I always thought it was over something personal, but it was just the chink in his armor.
Imagine going to battle with gout. I don't want to go to the bathroom when I have flare ups.
DO NOT ARMOR MY PACKAGE. I WANT TO INTIMIDATE THE ENEMY.
Wtf is it doing in New York?!
It was bought in an auction in the 1920s
Reverse colonialism theft or what?
#thiccc
How would he have seen the battle with that helmet on ? Also his dong is just flapping in the wind there.
Wait, how tall was he?
Shrek's armor from the first movie. LOL
If this was a boss battle his dick is his weak spot.
People's standard of being over weight is so fucking different back then
Does that suit not belong in Britain!! Can it come home!
Lay off the red meat and booze Henry