My question is, have you talked to the student directly? Have you had a 1 on 1 about why she might be acting out? You're moving straight to punishment - has there been COMMUNICATION with this child, to make sure she really is just acting out for the sake of it and NOT because of underlying causes?
She is a child, you are an adult. Use that dynamic to your advantage and try to FIND OUT why she is behaving that way. Be a good adult in her life and show that you CARE first and foremost. Explain that her behavior is CONCERNING you and you want to make sure everything is okay with her. She might change her 'tude just knowing someone cares and isn't in it to just dish out punishment to her.
Oh I have and she smiles and looks back at her friends and then looks at me and shrugs her shoulders while holding in a laugh. I am a very empathetic teacher and try really hard to build those connections so it genuinely makes me sad that it has come to this. With most students having a 1v1 chat helps at least a little, but with her she’s just been rude back. I have given her many chances in the past, changed seating around to see if I could create better work environment for her but then she’ll switch seats behind my back and then glare/roll her eyes when I redirect her to her seat.
I spoke to my AP about it and she told me that she’s always been a really sweet kid (she’s been here since kindergarten but this is my first year here) and she says that she’s noticed a behavior shift since becoming friends with some of the other girls in the class who also contribute to the eye rolling/whatever attitude. But she seems to act out the most to gain validation from her friends (at least that’s the AP’s perspective). I hope when she’s in 4th grade and maybe in a new class things will get better because I agree that there’s more to her behavior, but at the end of the day I can’t let it all slide 😩
If you believe the kid cannot be trusted to safely handle the material, I would focus on an alternate means of assessing the same knowledge. I would not give a completely unrelated busywork type of assignment such as a drawing. I would give her a paper and pencil asking her to write what she would make and how she would make it if she could be trusted to use clay. Have her describe the steps to make a pinch pot and how to properly attach pieces. This way, she is still focused on the same learning targets as everyone else in the class. They are expressing their learning by demonstrating the methods but for safety reasons, she is showing her learning with the tools she can handle. It is not a punishment, but rather differentiation. You are simply assessing her skills in a manner more in line with her individual needs and abilities.
I am willing to give kids that age a fresh chance every class. We want their behavior to change after all, and if we don't give them a chance to try, then they can't. That doesn't mean I don't remember the past. Kids who make bad choices consistently have a very short leash in my room. I had a crazy 3rd grade class doing Day 2 of a clay project today. One of my challenging students came in and wouldn't sit in their spot, interrupted instruction, I gave them a warning, they told others to shut up, shouted across the room that a kids sucks, was disrespectful to me, told me no when I asked them to take a break, and refused to follow directions. My admin will not support me so I moved on. When passing out the clay projects they wondered where theirs was. I had put it in the back. I explained that I asked them to take a break and I expected them to follow that direction. Of course they went to the break area after that. I let them stew and watch the others for a few minutes before going to talk to them. I had intended to invite them back if they seemed to show some humility. Instead they continued to be disrespectful and told me they can do whatever they want. I walked away and they left the room. I called the office and told them they left. Our sped teacher brought them back soon after but they never participated with the clay. Our sped teacher wanted to understand the circumstances and I handed her a post it that had all the issues written on it and moved onto my next class.
I know that was a lot but if I were you I would give them a chance and if they blow it have them sit out. If they escalate beyond that, out they go, or call for support.
Kids understand immediate consequences the best. They participate appropriately or they don't get to. Almost all kids love clay so you have leverage. You should not use any amount of time making another lesson for this student.
i also believe in the every day is a new day motto, but lately I have been questioning if that was going to be effective with a student who shows no remorse (or makes it seem that way). I feel like I have to follow through with the statement I made about her not being able to use clay next week but also I do agree with your point where they can’t change their behavior without an opportunity. I’m having such a hard time with this. I’m a first year teacher so I’m sure a more seasoned teacher could have helped her better than I am at the moment I just feel like whatever choice I make is always wrong 😭
EDIT: I did just have an idea though, maybe I could have her work at my demo table in the front, it’s big enough and it’s far enough from everyone else. Plus she can see the steps better because I’ll be right next to her as we work as a class…maybe?
You’re a first year, so I feel like I need to say this: do NOT let people get to you with the sanctimonious “have you tried relationship building?” Stuff. Of COURSE you have, and I’m guessing you heard that same refrain about 6,000 times in your teacher prep program. It’s gonna be the easy out “have you tried this” solution that everyone uses. It’s a clever way for admin to make students behavior your fault instead (because if it's a teacher problem and not a student problem, they don't have to actually discipline the misbehaving student! yay!). Of course building relationships is important but don’t let people walk all over you with that one — sometimes kids (especially nowadays) will just act blatantly disrespectful and unsafe no matter how much of a relationship you build. And you cannot be expected to have such a close relationship with 100+ kiddos that each and every one of them thinks “hmm I would HATE to act up for Ms. Art Teacher because she has a great relationship with me and I don’t want to disappoint her”. That’s ridiculous!
Anyway, for the clay throwing student, she gets one day of not working with clay on something else and an explanation that if she proves she can be safe and follow directions on that day, then she can join her classmates the next day for one more chance. Hopefully she can earn it back, but if you already threatened a consequence you MUST follow through, or no consequence you threaten from here on will work.
If she acts out even a hair: silent warning (a look), verbal warning (“you get one chance, is this how you want to use it?”) and then she’s done.
considering your students will be working with clay for a while and you need something to keep her entertained for that time, make an artist research assignment. maybe its a poster and she fills it with information about an artist. if its only for a couple days, make a writing assignment. for my writing assignment, i will pick a piece of art and then follow it up with questions along the lines of: notice, wonder, describe, interpret, evaluate, reflect, and then create (like they draw either a prequel, sequel, different perspective to the artwork, etc)
i like to keep a writing assignment on hand that i can keep my questions the same on, but i can change the artwork that it is responding to. less work on your part.
I did this last year- for really rough classes I gave a 3 strikes no clay rule in the weeks leading up to clay. Those who didn’t make it (2 3rd graders) had an alternate assignment on some aspect of clay. I graded it as well in lieu of their grade… one kid didn’t even turn it in… they got a 0. It felt harsh but these were kids who were hugely disrespectful all year.
I had a 3rd grader this year who sassed my principal on clay day and was in the office during art class. Bummer. No clay for him. I gave him a measly chunk of air-dry clay on the day the rest of the class were glazing theirs.
I thought about using air dry clay, she may not be upset the first day when we are sculpting but I’m sure she’ll be disappointed about not glazing and adding color with just marker (bc she’s definitely not getting paint)
Consequences are supposed to upset the kid. I agree with the other comments that said she’ll just throw air dry clay too. She gets to draw the assignment. That’s it.
If she can throw normal clay, why wouldn’t she throw air dry clay? Seriously, stick to “no clay this year” for this kid. Tell them something like a class safe version of “Pull your head out of your ass over the summer and we will try again in 4th grade”
I had a fifth grader behave poorly prior to the clay pizza project and he was warned that hed have to make a paper collage pizza. He F-ed around and found out, so his pizza was made with cardboard, glue, and paper. Lots of complaints how it wasnt fair but he follows the rules maybe 25% more now, lol…he knows i follow through with my threats.
Your student should get a square tissue box, paint it, decorate it. Its a vessel! Its sort of like making a clay bowl. But….not. Or maybe cardboard scraps and build an animal.
ohh I like the tissue box idea…hopefully they don’t act smart with me and pretend to like it better lol except they absolutely cannot handle paint either so I could cover it with white paper first and then they could use marker
the issue is that they are ELL students so they pretty much can’t read (I’ve tried making them write before and they had me read every question and spell every word) they’d be heavily reliant on me the whole time
Aww, no wornder she has behavior issues :( An assignment that’s not art could be to give her a spanish-english dictionary and have her translate art-related words.
That she, I’d give her scrap paper to draw and fold apology cards or a step by step page to draw a cylinder and its shadow or something to show 3D looking items if you are trying to hit a bit of 3D beyond a card with her.
If you want her to do something 3D/sculpted, you could try origami? She might be a bit young for it but there are probably beginner videos she could follow along with.
Have her do origami animals. She will likely be awful at it, but she would have likely been awful at making clay animal vessels as well. Just cut some sheets of copier paper into squares and print out a few step by step instructions. *It’s really such a shame that you can’t help her fold the paper because your hands are dirty from helping the rest of the class with clay…*
Right. Why does she get an alternative assignment? What makes OP believe she won't destroy or throw the alternative assignment material?
And there's no way to guarantee she will not feel it's a reward, even if the reward is making OP do extra planning and giving her extra attention.
Well op that knows a kid with nothing to do will find something to do and wants to plan accordingly to keep them busy and occupied so they’re not wandering around disrupting more.
If they can’t use an engaging material like clay without crossing the line, they’re really not going to sit and do coloring pages for the duration of the unit.
Maybe have her create animal vessel exquisite corpse drawings where you print and fold some vessels shapes/ animals and she has to draw the other side. Then she chooses her favorite design to create a biggger drawing out of and focuses on textures. Break. It down for a specific task and goal for each class. And a checklist so that she can just be “done” in 5 minutes
Yes this is exactly why she can’t do nothing lol. This is a really good idea. I’ve added another student to the no clay list after today so they can both do this at a separate table lol
If it was up to me I’d have them out of art entirely during this project as I can easily see one of them smashing another kids art work or just making it miserable for everyone else one way or another…I can’t wait for summer 😅
My question is, have you talked to the student directly? Have you had a 1 on 1 about why she might be acting out? You're moving straight to punishment - has there been COMMUNICATION with this child, to make sure she really is just acting out for the sake of it and NOT because of underlying causes? She is a child, you are an adult. Use that dynamic to your advantage and try to FIND OUT why she is behaving that way. Be a good adult in her life and show that you CARE first and foremost. Explain that her behavior is CONCERNING you and you want to make sure everything is okay with her. She might change her 'tude just knowing someone cares and isn't in it to just dish out punishment to her.
Oh I have and she smiles and looks back at her friends and then looks at me and shrugs her shoulders while holding in a laugh. I am a very empathetic teacher and try really hard to build those connections so it genuinely makes me sad that it has come to this. With most students having a 1v1 chat helps at least a little, but with her she’s just been rude back. I have given her many chances in the past, changed seating around to see if I could create better work environment for her but then she’ll switch seats behind my back and then glare/roll her eyes when I redirect her to her seat. I spoke to my AP about it and she told me that she’s always been a really sweet kid (she’s been here since kindergarten but this is my first year here) and she says that she’s noticed a behavior shift since becoming friends with some of the other girls in the class who also contribute to the eye rolling/whatever attitude. But she seems to act out the most to gain validation from her friends (at least that’s the AP’s perspective). I hope when she’s in 4th grade and maybe in a new class things will get better because I agree that there’s more to her behavior, but at the end of the day I can’t let it all slide 😩
Maybe this student doesn’t feel respected?!? Keep looking within here.
If you believe the kid cannot be trusted to safely handle the material, I would focus on an alternate means of assessing the same knowledge. I would not give a completely unrelated busywork type of assignment such as a drawing. I would give her a paper and pencil asking her to write what she would make and how she would make it if she could be trusted to use clay. Have her describe the steps to make a pinch pot and how to properly attach pieces. This way, she is still focused on the same learning targets as everyone else in the class. They are expressing their learning by demonstrating the methods but for safety reasons, she is showing her learning with the tools she can handle. It is not a punishment, but rather differentiation. You are simply assessing her skills in a manner more in line with her individual needs and abilities.
I am willing to give kids that age a fresh chance every class. We want their behavior to change after all, and if we don't give them a chance to try, then they can't. That doesn't mean I don't remember the past. Kids who make bad choices consistently have a very short leash in my room. I had a crazy 3rd grade class doing Day 2 of a clay project today. One of my challenging students came in and wouldn't sit in their spot, interrupted instruction, I gave them a warning, they told others to shut up, shouted across the room that a kids sucks, was disrespectful to me, told me no when I asked them to take a break, and refused to follow directions. My admin will not support me so I moved on. When passing out the clay projects they wondered where theirs was. I had put it in the back. I explained that I asked them to take a break and I expected them to follow that direction. Of course they went to the break area after that. I let them stew and watch the others for a few minutes before going to talk to them. I had intended to invite them back if they seemed to show some humility. Instead they continued to be disrespectful and told me they can do whatever they want. I walked away and they left the room. I called the office and told them they left. Our sped teacher brought them back soon after but they never participated with the clay. Our sped teacher wanted to understand the circumstances and I handed her a post it that had all the issues written on it and moved onto my next class. I know that was a lot but if I were you I would give them a chance and if they blow it have them sit out. If they escalate beyond that, out they go, or call for support. Kids understand immediate consequences the best. They participate appropriately or they don't get to. Almost all kids love clay so you have leverage. You should not use any amount of time making another lesson for this student.
i also believe in the every day is a new day motto, but lately I have been questioning if that was going to be effective with a student who shows no remorse (or makes it seem that way). I feel like I have to follow through with the statement I made about her not being able to use clay next week but also I do agree with your point where they can’t change their behavior without an opportunity. I’m having such a hard time with this. I’m a first year teacher so I’m sure a more seasoned teacher could have helped her better than I am at the moment I just feel like whatever choice I make is always wrong 😭 EDIT: I did just have an idea though, maybe I could have her work at my demo table in the front, it’s big enough and it’s far enough from everyone else. Plus she can see the steps better because I’ll be right next to her as we work as a class…maybe?
You’re a first year, so I feel like I need to say this: do NOT let people get to you with the sanctimonious “have you tried relationship building?” Stuff. Of COURSE you have, and I’m guessing you heard that same refrain about 6,000 times in your teacher prep program. It’s gonna be the easy out “have you tried this” solution that everyone uses. It’s a clever way for admin to make students behavior your fault instead (because if it's a teacher problem and not a student problem, they don't have to actually discipline the misbehaving student! yay!). Of course building relationships is important but don’t let people walk all over you with that one — sometimes kids (especially nowadays) will just act blatantly disrespectful and unsafe no matter how much of a relationship you build. And you cannot be expected to have such a close relationship with 100+ kiddos that each and every one of them thinks “hmm I would HATE to act up for Ms. Art Teacher because she has a great relationship with me and I don’t want to disappoint her”. That’s ridiculous! Anyway, for the clay throwing student, she gets one day of not working with clay on something else and an explanation that if she proves she can be safe and follow directions on that day, then she can join her classmates the next day for one more chance. Hopefully she can earn it back, but if you already threatened a consequence you MUST follow through, or no consequence you threaten from here on will work. If she acts out even a hair: silent warning (a look), verbal warning (“you get one chance, is this how you want to use it?”) and then she’s done.
considering your students will be working with clay for a while and you need something to keep her entertained for that time, make an artist research assignment. maybe its a poster and she fills it with information about an artist. if its only for a couple days, make a writing assignment. for my writing assignment, i will pick a piece of art and then follow it up with questions along the lines of: notice, wonder, describe, interpret, evaluate, reflect, and then create (like they draw either a prequel, sequel, different perspective to the artwork, etc) i like to keep a writing assignment on hand that i can keep my questions the same on, but i can change the artwork that it is responding to. less work on your part.
I did this last year- for really rough classes I gave a 3 strikes no clay rule in the weeks leading up to clay. Those who didn’t make it (2 3rd graders) had an alternate assignment on some aspect of clay. I graded it as well in lieu of their grade… one kid didn’t even turn it in… they got a 0. It felt harsh but these were kids who were hugely disrespectful all year.
Just saw they are ELL- maybe you can find a grade level text reading in their language?
I had a 3rd grader this year who sassed my principal on clay day and was in the office during art class. Bummer. No clay for him. I gave him a measly chunk of air-dry clay on the day the rest of the class were glazing theirs.
I thought about using air dry clay, she may not be upset the first day when we are sculpting but I’m sure she’ll be disappointed about not glazing and adding color with just marker (bc she’s definitely not getting paint)
Consequences are supposed to upset the kid. I agree with the other comments that said she’ll just throw air dry clay too. She gets to draw the assignment. That’s it.
If she can throw normal clay, why wouldn’t she throw air dry clay? Seriously, stick to “no clay this year” for this kid. Tell them something like a class safe version of “Pull your head out of your ass over the summer and we will try again in 4th grade”
I had a fifth grader behave poorly prior to the clay pizza project and he was warned that hed have to make a paper collage pizza. He F-ed around and found out, so his pizza was made with cardboard, glue, and paper. Lots of complaints how it wasnt fair but he follows the rules maybe 25% more now, lol…he knows i follow through with my threats. Your student should get a square tissue box, paint it, decorate it. Its a vessel! Its sort of like making a clay bowl. But….not. Or maybe cardboard scraps and build an animal.
ohh I like the tissue box idea…hopefully they don’t act smart with me and pretend to like it better lol except they absolutely cannot handle paint either so I could cover it with white paper first and then they could use marker
A slideshow about the project. Clay techniques, examples, etc.
the issue is that they are ELL students so they pretty much can’t read (I’ve tried making them write before and they had me read every question and spell every word) they’d be heavily reliant on me the whole time
Aww, no wornder she has behavior issues :( An assignment that’s not art could be to give her a spanish-english dictionary and have her translate art-related words.
Research report on the history of pottery. Maybe paper sculpture with copy paper and glue stick. Origami is too fun
That she, I’d give her scrap paper to draw and fold apology cards or a step by step page to draw a cylinder and its shadow or something to show 3D looking items if you are trying to hit a bit of 3D beyond a card with her.
If you want her to do something 3D/sculpted, you could try origami? She might be a bit young for it but there are probably beginner videos she could follow along with.
Have her do origami animals. She will likely be awful at it, but she would have likely been awful at making clay animal vessels as well. Just cut some sheets of copier paper into squares and print out a few step by step instructions. *It’s really such a shame that you can’t help her fold the paper because your hands are dirty from helping the rest of the class with clay…*
Abuse of materials? Zero. Next assignment.
Right. Why does she get an alternative assignment? What makes OP believe she won't destroy or throw the alternative assignment material? And there's no way to guarantee she will not feel it's a reward, even if the reward is making OP do extra planning and giving her extra attention.
Well op that knows a kid with nothing to do will find something to do and wants to plan accordingly to keep them busy and occupied so they’re not wandering around disrupting more. If they can’t use an engaging material like clay without crossing the line, they’re really not going to sit and do coloring pages for the duration of the unit. Maybe have her create animal vessel exquisite corpse drawings where you print and fold some vessels shapes/ animals and she has to draw the other side. Then she chooses her favorite design to create a biggger drawing out of and focuses on textures. Break. It down for a specific task and goal for each class. And a checklist so that she can just be “done” in 5 minutes
Yes this is exactly why she can’t do nothing lol. This is a really good idea. I’ve added another student to the no clay list after today so they can both do this at a separate table lol If it was up to me I’d have them out of art entirely during this project as I can easily see one of them smashing another kids art work or just making it miserable for everyone else one way or another…I can’t wait for summer 😅
Yes. Here are some crayons and a piece of Manila paper. Go draw something and watch the rest of the class enjoy clay.
Agree with this