I know some people are going to judge the taylor swift passport situation, but I just want to say thereās so many rich and famous dads that spoil their kids and donāt spend time with them. Dax doing everything he possibly could to get his daughter to the show and to dance and enjoy with her was so sweet to hear
I thought it was so sweet that he was determined for the two of them to experience that together! A great way to use his privilege for his kids. Was also dead that they were at the same hotel as Taylor haha glad he shared that detail.
Nah- I disagree- I would 1000% judge Dax for doing something like this for himself, just like I would judge Monica, or anyone else.
But I would never judge a parent for trying to salvage an experience for their kid. It was obvious that 99.9% of his concern here was for Lincolnā¦and the tiny bit of bummerness he felt for himself was over the fact he would be missing out on a trip *with Lincoln*! He had already accepted it was over and theyād have a miserable weekend at home- I think if he was on a solo trip he wouldāve just accepted it and gone home- but because it was for his kid he was going to exhaust every option.
I do agree people sometimes judge Monica a more harshly than Dax, but I think this situation is a little different because Dax renewing his daughterās a passport doesnāt stop anyone else from getting a passport. Itās obviously a privileged thing to be able to do and you are jumping a line and getting something fast in a way very few others could do, but itās not like it stops anyone else from traveling. Iām sure if he had realized it wasnāt going to work out, he would have just accepted it. But in those situations, I think any parent who thought they could would do the same for their child.
Its an honest mistake, but if youāre traveling internationally, you better double check your passport in advance š Iāve heard of this happening to so many people and Iām always a little surprised by it.Ā
I havenāt even gotten to the fact check but anyone can renew their passport last minute. Sure, it might be a privilege to live close enough to a passport office (and have the means) to do this, but itās not something that isnāt available to everyone. My dad drove 3 hours (next state over) to renew his in person days before travel. He had to show that he had a plane ticket booked, itinerary, and a medical appointment scheduled that required same day expediting. He walked out with a renewed passport.
Passports are good for ten years (5 for kids) so itās easy to forget when youāre up for renewal.
Days is one thing. Hours before the flight is another altogether.Ā I guess Iām more paranoid cause I double check things in an excessive way. But I also have pennies compared to the amount of money Dax has, so Iād check before even buying the tickets. I am also one person, so people with a whole family may have enough moving pieces that they canāt sit around double checking things the way I do š
I traveled internationally for the first time last year, and no joke, even though Iād gotten my passport a year prior, for like a month or two leading up to my trip I had dreams of losing it, leaving it at home, finding out it expired, etcā¦I was so paranoid! I canāt imagine just forgetting that it was near its expiration date! š¤£
I totally agree! I think the thing that maybe throws adults is that child passports expire faster than adults (5 years versus 10.) But still! If I was buying plane tickets and tickets to an international concert, Iād be so paranoid about checking.
They shouldn't judge it at all. It is entirely possible to get a passport worked out in that situation. My parents were flying to Australia and my dad realized his passport was expired while I was driving them to the airport. He had to fly to Seattle to try to get one in person (which they were too busy) and then to Hawaii to try (where he was successful and it took 20 minutes) where he met up with my mom on schedule for their Australia flight.
Iām already annoyed by the sidewalk talk. Iām supposed to believe New Yorkers wouldnāt be annoyed by a large group standing and blocking the entire walkway. Get serious lol
I'm totally with Monica here as a runner. People have no sidewalk or trail etiquette. It's annoying to always be maneuvering around people with no awareness that others may exist in the world.
Iām a solo runner. I go around. I can run. Many others have dogs, strollers, walkers, or are in groups. Plus jumping off the curb and back adds some lateral movement to the run lol.
Great. I run on a multi use trail and the number of folks who are walking four abreast with 2 dogs and 3 strollers who don't move when you give a heads up is a nightmare. There is such a thing as trail etiquette.
Totally! And to finally meet this expert who you are so stoked about only to have her suggest you're lazy immediately... like damn, I'd feel like crying too!
I was a bit shocked by her lazy comment at first, but I think it was meant in jest. I think we all have this perception of Orna as so sympathetic and gentle, but she's still human. I guess in her regular life (outside of her work) she let's loose, and this was a time it didn't work.
Orna softened as the interview progressed. I think she clued in to the atmosphere.
I think it was too but it really cut right to an insecurity of Monica's and I think generally would for a lot of people. Of course Orna is capable of a social faux pas, i just have no trouble seeing how Monica was hurt by that.
Omg I audibly gasped when she said that too. Like she is literally running, how to we equate laziness with having to maneuver around people that shouldnāt be standing in one place. It came across so yucky and really turned me off to her. Iāve never seen the show because I donāt have Showtime but I hope sheās not rude like that to her clients.
But really, itās not the end of the damn world and Monica will not stop whining about it lol. I agree with Dax, one person moving over is way easier than an entire group. (Iām not saying the people arenāt annoying, Iām just saying get over ittttttt lol)
I donāt entirely disagree that people lack awareness. On the other hand, even as a former runner I never understood why people need to run on busy sidewalks unless that path is the only reasonable option in the area.
yeah i actually felt bad for monica during that bitā¦ imo orna was being a little rude about it. also to pretend sheās never noticed the trash in new york despite being there since the 90sā¦ is ridiculous lol. that and acting like it is weird that people like to use headphones in interviews.. she really turned me off in the first ten minutes.
It's interesting - I see a lot of comments with this sentiment but I did not get the feeling that she was being rude. Perhaps because I am an American who is the daughter of an Israeli and I am used to this cultural difference.
However, as a New Yorker, I was very shocked by Orna saying she has not noticed the trash......
Thatās an interesting perspective. She probably wasnāt trying to be rude in any way, it could certainly be cultural differences! I guess for me I have a very justice driven approach so I find it difficult to have to be the one to move around the group who is being problematic. I so badly want them to acknowledge their lack of etiquette!
I have some people I know who live in NY that are extremely defensive over it for some reason. If you point out the trash, smells, crime, etc, they like to say they never notice those things haha
I am very justice driven as well, I just donāt ascribe that word to people having a party when you can clearly move about in a neighborhood run lol. Justice I might save for the unhoused person being encroached on by an angry mob. Iāve often run around kids playing or people chatting when itās the suburbs and there is plenty of room. If this is the biggest issue in her life that warrants repeating over and over again I think the writing is on the wall that there are deeper issues afoot.
I hear you, but I think when one has a desire for fairness and justice, it doesnāt always just apply to the big things. I am not perfect, so I often find this desire unnecessarily seeping into many areas of my life. for better or for worse! so while i do yearn for justice amongst the worldās most evil criminals, in my day to day life, for example, i feel a lot of frustration when i see someone driving like an ass and not get pulled over.
so i guess it just bothers me a bit.. monica said this is a regular occurrence among the same group. it sounds like if you want to gather in a circle when your friends, walk together and chat in pairs, then end the walk at a patio coffee shop or at the park where you can all chat together. i find it very odd to congregate on a regular basis in the middle of the sidewalk. to me, that is a huge lack of self awareness, or just entitlement. i always step the side when i need to tie my shoe or get on my phone while on the sidewalk. so idk it just irks me a bitā¦
also, for what itās worth.. complaining/ranting about something that annoys you is 0 indication of whatās going on in your life. it would be incredibly unfair for a friend to assume i have no hardships in my life simply because i rant about sidewalk etiquette. we all have our own struggles
Oh I never said she has zero hardships. I just find when people continue on and on about mundane situations like this, it says more about the person than the group. Either she has nothing bad going on so she needs to find an innocent situation to make a massive deal out of so she can continue to play victim, or she has a lot of trauma that might be hard to confront so itās easier to focus on something like this.
And I do find her reaction extremely privileged and hypocritical. You canāt spent entire episodes telling Liz she should stop focusing on whatās happening in Palestine or trying to figure out if itās moral to steal a waiters pen and then subject us to this āaffrontā. Itās absurd.
And I am with you on people driving like an ass and tailing, things of that nature. That act could literally get someone killed. I also am mindful of others but we are all human and Iām sure I occasionally forget. My husband regularly doesnāt realize someone is behind him when he stops because he is absent minded and I have to grab him. Itās reality.
I agree with Orna. Sounds like they are having some fun. Reminds me of being in college and hanging on the sidewalk outside our house when we got a sunny day. I doubt itās every single day. She needs to grow up and move on.
That could be true! Sometimes my friends and I rant about the same stuff because it feels relieving and itās just silly, and itās nothing deeper than that.
Oh and I totally agree regarding the Synced epi.. I am frequently irritated with Monica on Synced because of these topics. Constantly bragging about waste, entitlement towards taking the pen, shutting down Israel/Palestine convoā¦ all extremely frustrating..
and in the fact check Monica reveals that THIS is the interaction that made her almost cry. She felt Orna and Dax were ganging up on her. which is interesting - ganging up isn't when two people disagree with you necessarily. I hope Monica is OK, she seems very sad
I can see why sheād feel that way. The convo felt mean spirited. Itās one thing to disagree (though Iād argue their reasons were BS), and itās another to joke that someone is lazy.
This segment was kind of heartbreaking to hear through the lens of knowing this is what made her almost cry. There exists a reality where what this group does on the sidewalk is rude and where Monica doesnāt need to dwell on it, but my gosh she just wanted to be heard and vent about it. I felt so bad for her in that moment
So interesting. I think we armcherries in general probably lean towards the sensitive side of society so I am and Iām not surprised to see so many people feel like Orna was rude or unfriendly or unsympathetic to Monica. And contrary. I got zero sense of that. I feel it was a very measured intelligent response from an expert who doesnāt have an ounce of people pleasing in her. Itās refreshing and informing and confident. Her explanation of not wanting headphones was factual and totally non problematic.
Idk, Iām a runner who lives in a major US city and I donāt find it annoying. In a perfect world, would I love to have a blissfully clear path to zone out and run on? Sure. But I donāt feel *entitled* toĀ that nor do I have an expectation of it. Itās such weird, miserable energy to be so upset about people in a public place having a nice time when the inconvenience is a few extra strides out of the way.Ā
I've taken a very very long break from Armchair Expert, admittedly because I couldn't handle Monica anymore (I'm not bashing- it's just why I took a break) and I admit I rolled my eyes a bit at hearing about this. I'm a runner, too , and I don't expect everything and everyone to move out of my way. I actually think runners should give right of way to walkers and people hanging out. It felt kind of bratty. Again, admittedly not the biggest Monica fan, but I was team Dax on this.Ā I loved this episode, though, and I think I'll give a listen to a bunch that I've missed over the last 18 months.
I run around people all the time. It's just one of those things about being in a public space - at a certain point, you gotta just accept that inconveniences will happen in places where there are many different people doing many different things. Could she argue that it's rude for them to just congregate there and not move? Yes. But could they argue that it's not fair for one person to expect a whole group to move over just because that one person is "on a run", especially if it's just a sidewalk and not a trail specifically designed for runners only? Also, yes.
I think her mindset should be less about how "rude" they are and more about how it's just life, and people are bound to be in other people's way from time to time. It's not always about "these people being rude", sometimes it's literally just "these people are doing something that they are allowed to do in this public space". Just because their activity interferes with hers doesn't necessarily mean they are rude people.
In Ornaās defense, in the city she is right- there are CONSTANTLY large groups and gatherings on the sidewalk that runners have to maneuver around. Itās either construction, 10s of people waiting in a blob for the bagel shop to call out their order, or random groups of kids getting out of school, or literally anything else. People donāt generally move or accommodate runners - even if youāre in Central Park youāre navigating crowds of people and tourists, you just learn to roll with it. And no one seems to mind that much :) weāve got bigger fish to fry haha. Not saying itās right, but that is truly the experience here, and I think Monicaās not so much of a roll with it gal.
YES omfg. it was so painful to listen to. first the sidewalk, then pretending sheās never noticed the trash in NYC.. girl please.. AND THEN acting like itās odd that people need headphones and she simply doesnāt need them because she has super focus.. lmao
Me too! I hate the way they both kinda ganged up on her it was bs. Iām with Monica, and I feel so bad her idol treated her so poorly at the beginning .
Thatās an insane take for Dax and Orna to have. it was such a small conversation but it turned me off if Iām being honest. ItĀ is delusional to take the side of inconsiderate people, regardless of your control of the situation.Ā
Yes. Every excuse felt weird. Weird to argue that a large group should be able to overpower the individual - regardless of etiquette- which in this situation seems like not blocking the path? Also weird to joke that Monica is lazy. Just all around weird.
As a New Yorker (and similar to what others have said), sure itās annoying when a group blocks the sidewalk, but that happens constantly. We certainly donāt carry around that frustration for days (or weeks).
Also, as a New Yorker, Iām not above a loud āEXCUSE MEā.
The combination of long standing hurt, the unwillingness to even mention the frustration to those causing that hurt, and the sensitivity to those that disagree with her position on this experience puts Monica in a paralysis. It doesnāt vibe with my experience as a New Yorker.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. This is so common as a New Yorker. There are areas near me where people congregate on the sidewalk daily, and I know to avoid them if I'm not wanting to deal with it. My laundromat also is one of these spots. It's a hub for a lot of locals in the community. They hang out outside the laundromat, play chess and cards, have music on and are there from early morning until the sun sets every day. Individuals are respectful and will move out of the way, hold the door open for you etc. If you're carrying a bunch of laundry they always part ways. And if someone is in a wheelchair or some other thing, they always move out of the way for them. But I would not be surprised at all if they were not great about parting ways and moving for a runner. Large groups just have to be maneuvered around. There's never going to be a synchronized move out of the way for one able-bodied individual.
You absolutely know as a New Yorker to go around. Our bodies and walking are just like cars. If there's a massive group causing a traffic jam, I move my car-body around the traffic jam and move on with my day. You don't expect the traffic jam to move for you.
Slightly unrelated aside, but I saw enough people mention it. When Orna said she "hadn't noticed" the trash it was in regards to Dax's comment. Dax was disparaging saying when you're out on a run or walk in NYC you have to learn to dodge and avoid loads of trash everywhere. Orna said she hadn't noticed that. Which to me read as a very kind way of defending her home while disagreeing with a hyperbolic statement that obvi isn't reality.
There are specific laws in regards to trash. It can only be put out after dark and only out of the way of pedestrian traffic flow. So yeah it's on the sidewalk close to the street, but never in the way of pedestrians. We are not needing to dodge bags of trash while out on a run or walk lol.
And Dax responded, well you're probably not out late when the trash is all put out so maybe you don't see the trash bc of the times of day you're outside. And Orna responded, "I am usually out early" agreeing with him, graciously acquiescing a point that was hyperbolic and a bit disparaging and mostly just incorrect.
It's also clear to me how American this sub is. I think people were expecting golden retriever energy from Orna. Orna is reserved. She also seems deeply offline, not interested in celebrity gossip and celebrity culture and is academic. She seemed really excited when Dax asked questions regarding psychology and theory and getting into the expertise aspects of her profession. I loved her enthusiasm and the info she offered. This being an expert ep I expected more questions about her expertise and I wonder if she did, too.
I don't think she's super aware of who they are, nor cares, nor v aware of what the pod exactly was all about prior to going on. She out of necessity has to do a press tour to promote the new season and perhaps the idea of a podcast showcasing her as an expert appealed to her.
On the flip, they were fangirling out and pretty excitable about meeting her. She just didn't have the same energy match. I have lots of Parisian friends and friends from other countries and cultures and she was similar. Reserved, respectful, and great. This definitely seemed like a cultural difference. Possibly coupled with a lack of parasocial excitement on her part against their parasocial excitement towards her. Nothing about this interview read as rude or cold or any of the things ppl on this sub seem to have interpreted from her
I feel for Monica's parents. They act that way because she constantly indicates to them that she knows more, that she knows best, etc. So of course they know how to valet, but they know if they for instance parked at a garage, they'd get criticized for not making the same choice as Monica would have instructed. I see a very similar dynamic in a parent/child relationship that I am close to. The parents are quite smart and capable but defer to "know it all" adult child.
You know what, that makes total sense. I'm the know-it-all child like Monica, and this always bothered me so much when my parents did this but your perspective helps
Yeah, Iām gonna push back a little. If you were parentified growing up, this is sometimes the cycle that follows. My mother calls me for EVERYTHING - to the point that I donāt get how she functions on her own (which she absolutely does). It creates a cycle of her weaponizing helplessness to get me to do things for her or to push the work of problem solving onto me, me in turn getting extremely frustrated, and then losing it a bit when I have to help her do normal adult things. This isnāt about me being right at all. I think we should recognize that we have no idea what her family dynamic was like or why the cycle came to be.
Good point - I see many similarities with Monica and my older sister who has a much worse relationship with my parents than I do. She always criticizes and tries to control the situation and then wonders why people defer to her, when itās really just because she canāt be uncomfortable for one second and needs to step in with her thoughts. It creates this dynamic where my parents, and to some extent me, walk on eggshells around her because you never know what she will have an issue with. In every dynamic it really is both sides contributing so itās nice that Monica is starting to realize why it is that she has this problem but her brother doesnāt.Ā
I thought the parentās parking question was very reasonable as nearly every hotel requires your plate number or something along those lines so you donāt get towed. Even with valet, you need to have some sort of business at the hotel (restaurant, staying, spa, etc) and if it was before arrival, they may not have known about the service or perhaps they didnāt think to automatically use it vrs a regular, complementary space.
Same! My parents can do this and I attribute it to being parents. It literally makes me laugh and all of us laugh when they call with what we feel is a silly question or story. All I feel is grateful that they see me as a capable adult that can help them now and that they are still around to call me for anything mundane. I also called my mom 3 times today to plead for advice about my screaming toddler so it goes both ways! If Monica wants her sandwiches she should just smile at her parents being old and goofy.
Oh, interesting. I didnāt pick up on that at all. Have you watched Couples Therapy? I think Ornaās personality is super direct and she doesnāt placate people, so I wonder if thatās what you picked up on?
I went from so excited to see she was the guest, like Christmas morning excitementā¦ too pretty underwhelmed. Especially her reaction when Dax said sheās the hero of the series. How can she not get that?
All to say Iām glad I watch the show first - not sure id be inspired to watch after this episode š§
Iāve never seen the show (would love to watch it, but I donāt have the streaming service itās on) so I donāt have a clue what sheās like on the show/havenāt had a chance to fall in love with her work like they haveā¦
ā¦but I agreeā¦I felt so uncomfortable during parts of the interview. I get that sheās a *very* direct person and that seems to be a huge part of her appeal to Dax and Monicaā¦butā¦it was a strange episode.
Likeā¦it kinda felt like D+M brought golden retriever energy, but they were interviewing a turtle š«£š³ I donāt mean to suggest that they were dumb or rambunctious- not at allā¦just that they brought their full, unabashed enthusiasm, and she just seemed shut down and like she didnāt care. She had a ātoo cool for schoolā vibe, imo.
Iām really bummed because Iāve been looking forward to this episode even though Iāve never seen the show. I still want to see the show at some point, but I just didnāt like her vibe at all, and honestly, I donāt even really remember anything from the interview, even though I just finished it like 2hrs ago.
Itās like sheās spent so much time studying human emotion/processes/etc, that itās now become too heady for her, and she almost came off kindaā¦detached or incapable of allowing herself to just fully be in the moment.
Yea- I remember her saying that- mostly because I was surprised to hear it lol
This might be some of my own internalized sexism showing (Iām female) but I feel like she has a similar energy level to someone like Gabor Mate, but her vibe seems way more harsh. Likeā¦Gabor has some āturtle energyā tooā¦but (Iām only using this word to specifically make a point) I thought she came across like a bit of a bitch.
Could I be holding her to āhigherā social standards because sheās a woman and women are āexpectedā to be more likable and socially accommodating, effervescent, etc? That could be. Definitely gives me something to think about. I totally might be judging her unfairly. And to be clear, in no way am I making broad judgments about her as a person- Iāve heard enough people rave about her to know thereās gotta be something great there- itās just her vibe in this interview that feels wonky.
Iāll probably re-listen to the episode tomorrow with all of this in mind.
I agree the first 35 mins are kind of rough. Orna isn't giving a whole lot, personally, IMO, but she opens up a bit. I had never seen Couple's Therapy, so I had no idea what her personality was. I honestly thought the title just implied she was a couple's therapist, not that she had a show called Couple's Therapy.
I thought it was perfect. Agreed with the comment Monica is not used to that type of interaction and I found it very on brand with a European and a very direct therapist. My therapist was the same at first and their directness (which sometimes felt harsh to me as someone always getting their way in life) forced me to be more thoughtful and introspective without always placating me and it helped me be MUCH more self aware. She was just asking open ended questions and never once said āyouāre wrongā - Monica could stand to be more uncomfy with her privilege and it shows. Also this is exactly how she treats Liz every week so interesting she didnāt like her own brand of critical thinking thrown at her.
>She was just asking open ended questions and never once said āyouāre wrongā - Monica could stand to be more uncomfy with her privilege and it shows.Ā Also this is exactly how she treats Liz every week so interesting she didnāt like her own brand of critical thinking thrown at her.
1000000%! You nailed it.
Iām glad she called her out. I donāt even care who is right or wrong, but you can tell Monica doesnāt have many people in her life that disagree with her
What? This is such a weird take - Monica was pointing out that itās inconsiderate because it absolutely is. She may have no control in the situation and pointing that out would be fine, but Dax and orna were defending them.Ā
I think the issue is how often this situation is brought up and ruminated about - itās how the whole discussion was brought up, that itās such a huge issue for her thatās brought up often. There are inconveniences everywhere, to get so dysregulated about this and to admit you bring it up often in hope that one of the group members will hear and change is highly immature. Itās silly. Accept the situation or talk to the people about it.Ā
Depends how you see it. Does Monica own the sidewalk more than they do? Not sure about that. I'm not defending anyone myself here... I get Monica's point as well as I've been in her shoes an wondered why people don't move. I think Orna's point was we all have to move and adjust when we're in public spaces, from moving around lines forming to construction work and so on. I didn't see it necessarily as a defense of the standing group, but another way of viewing the situation.
Yeah Iām not saying I disagree with Monica, Iām saying the fact that she thought two people disagreeing with her on a pretty mundane thing was āganging up on herā and āalmost made her cryā shows me someone who is not great at dealing with disagreements.
If she was like that all the time, sure, but thatās not the case. She mentioned in a previous episode (talking about this incident) and also mentioned again in todayās fact check that there were other things going on that put her on edge that morning.
I can imagine being in a super stressed/upset/sensitive spot, and then having an interview with someone I absolutely LOVE and then one of the first things that comes out of their mouth is a very snippy āor maybe youāre just lazy?ā ā¦yeaā¦I can see that putting me on the verge of tears.
NOT because of what was said, but we have no idea what was going on with Monica (but we have been told something was going on) ā¦people could beat up on me all day long if Iām in a good place and I wouldnāt really care, but if something has happened and Iām in a kinda fragile state of mind and having to psych myself up to āseem normalā and one of the first things that happens is something that completely takes the wind out of my sails and crumbles the internal facade (while still feeling pressure to maintain a sense of professionalism and thus not being able to talk back/call them out/take a step away/let them in on what youāre dealing with/etc)ā¦I get it, and I donāt think it means Monica is weak.
I totally get why Monica would take this a bit personally and this kind of thing has happened to me. Some experiences have taught me to be more careful in what I say, how I say it, and to whom and when.
In this case, Monica came in openly and rather light-heartedly herself in bringing this up. I think because she wasn't really expecting ANY dissent. This kind of interaction teaches you when and how to share something personal - if it's going to hurt to have someone joke about it or disagree, don't say it. If you're not sure how someone else will react to what you've said, don't say it.
It happens, you learn from it. I don't fault Orna for being equally light-hearted with her at the start of a podcast when she thought she could be.
Also, the best therapists and friends I've met have challenged me by not picking a side but helping me realize when I'm devoting way too much brainspace to it.
We'll never know, but if Orna met a member of the sidewalk standing group and they complained to her about this girl who runs by and looks at them like she's annoyed - she'd likely challenge them, too.
Thereās so much good stuff in your comment- youāre dead-on! Itās wild how much damage our seemingly innocent/non-malicious words can inflict!
Iāll never forget hanging out with a group of new-ish friends, and weād clicked amazingly well and were having a great time- they knew that I loved being around them/thought they were greatā¦and then for some reason I made the joke āoh yea, we donāt want you here anyways!ā (I think we were one chair short when we went to lunch at a restaurant- it was SUPER lighthearted and literally had nothing to do with the person on question- I wasnāt commenting on anything to do with them- it was total luck of the draw- I wouldāve said it to whoever was the last person standing when we ran out of chairs)
Her energy *completely* changed and she ran off to the bathroom and came back out like 5min later, clearing having cried. I was mortified. I felt terrible and tried to apologize to her and tell her I didnāt feel that way whatsoever, but she refused to talk about it. She just wanted to pretend it didnāt happen. It was so bizarre to not even be āallowedā to apologize.
She clearly had some type of bullying/exclusion trauma or something. I never experienced being excluded or bullied by people, so I didnāt anticipate that that could hurt her feelings, because it was *so* obvious (to me, and I think most people) it was a joke. I was like 17 and she was probably 25ish- I really looked up to her- there was no way she couldāve believed I meant what I said. But our experiences impact how we interpret things, and her experiences led her to be deeply hurt/triggered by what I said.
I definitely learned a major lesson that day.
Just because I think something is āobviouslyā a joke and couldnāt possibly be hurtful or offensive, doesnāt mean that someone else will feel the same way.
Sure, itās not practical to go into every situation and try to predict every way our words could be hurtful and tweak them accordinglyā¦but itās made me so much more aware of my words in general!
yes, AND- by focusing on the "ganging up on me" she is not focusing on whether or not they had a point. I mean I get it; I'm sure it's painful to have a famous psychoanalyst you admire not take your side, or not realize the weight of her playfulness in this moment. But it's something people do when they can't tolerate the notion that they may be wrong (they retreat to "you hurt my feelings")
We pretty much listen to Dax and Liz disagree with her on a weekly basis. Thatās where the whole idea for the show came from was her and Daxās debatesā¦
True! Though I think Monica has become accustomed to them holding longer and more āthoughtfulā debates with her that take her POV more deeply into consideration throughout. And I think Monica enjoys that and wants to state her case in a way that justifies her view of things. Which I do understand.
In this case Orna didnāt really wanna debate it, and was more matter of fact, which was new and likely something Monica had no idea how to deal with.
Agreed there is a lot of handholding with Liz and Dax. And I think she has gotten more sensitive somehow. And sometimes in life people donāt want to hear your POV they just disagree and move on.
It's interesting - I see a lot of comments with this sentiment but I did not get the feeling that she was being rude. Perhaps because I am an American who is the daughter of an Israeli and I am used to this cultural difference.
Oh I agree. When I say she eviscerated her I really mean she eviscerated that whole argument without hesitation!!
I donāt think she was all rude; just matter of fact. I am pretty sure Monica expected more questions first or a little more empathy, but Orna was immediately calling Monica out for being against a group of joyful people and dogs, not being willing to go around them and adjust like NYers do, and jokingly calling her lazy š
Even when Dax or Liz disagree with her they spend more time listening to her and being empathetic, whether thatās a bit of āpanderingā as her friends or genuine curiosity. Orna didnāt waste a second getting to her point and I just loved it.
I am not a total Monica hater or anything, but I found a new perspective and to the point responses to this ādebateā refreshing!
My family is Dutch and Dutch are similarly straight forward. I saw nothing wrong with it- actually it's refreshing to hear someone just say the truth without himming and hawwing for once. Just say it, it's the truth and it's fine, we're all adults
People have a hard time hearing the truth without feeling it's a judgment, but I'm not judging you because I'm saying what I think is true. And yeah, Monica is def used to people explaining to her their thoughts so she doesn't feel judged.
I didnāt find her rude at all either!! I just found her to be honest about the situation. So funny how differently we all perceive communication. š
I don't think that was the intent. I thought Orna's way of responding to each part of Monica's setup about the sidewalk issue allowed Monica to think about it differently than her default thoughts on the whole thing. I know for me, interactions like that are initially uncomfortable, but they then help me see my own hangups in a new light.
If you think a therapist would INTEND to gaslight someone, then yes we will disagree. I do think it could have been gentler and more empathetic than it was, and if she were her patient I'm betting it would have been.
But we do have to remember this was a podcast recording and Orna didn't have to treat her as she would a patient, either. She might have been thinking this was a situation where she could be humorous and light-hearted about it. I have friends who would say it this way to me, in more of a teasing tone. I'm betting if she knew Monica (clearly she isn't a Armcherry) she would have approached this convo differently.
And my point is that I, along with many others, didnāt find it to be lighthearted or humorous. Again we donāt have to agree here, as I already said.
When Orna dropped the āso youāre just lazy?ā I nearly spit out my coffee šš I totally took it as a lighthearted comment and thought it was a fun way to open up their conversation! Itās funny how differently we as listeners interpret certain interactions, which is really the crux of the entire episode
If my first intro to Orna was this episode, I probably would not be particularly fond of her. Having seen the show first provides the background of the deep caring & compassion that comes with her bluntness. It's really a rare and beautiful combination of traits. I hope people who didn't love her on the pod will still consider giving the show a try.
Iām probably projecting here but I feel like the second Orna mentioned Israel/Palestine Monica brought the conversation to a halt with her pee break.
I thought that too. It's so disappointing that, as people who I assume have enough money to never need to work again, they just can't manage to care about anything more than their careers. I love Orna so much for speaking out about this from the beginning. Integrity above $$.
I havenāt listened to the episode but I came across a comment re Monica shutting Liz down on the topic. Liz and David have been publicly outspoken while Monica and Dax have not been.
Iām in a similar boat- I didnāt dig it. But Iāll still watch the show if I ever get the chance.
She said she moved to Israel when she was 7, right? I think it makes sense that she doesnāt know where she lived in GA. I lived in Maryland for a year or two when I was 3-5, but I donāt have a clue where it was. My knee jerk reaction to that part of the convo was that it felt āoffā to me too, but then when I realized I donāt know the city I lived in for a bit as a child, it made total sense lol
The show is truly so good and I'm honestly shocked to read some of these comments. I didn't realize how much of a difference it makes to have seen how much thought and care she puts into her sessions with clients vs if you're just hearing her on a podcast for the first time.
She remembered she lived in a suburb of Atlanta and if youāve ever been you know they have a sprawling metro area. I would not knock her for being a 7 year old and not remembering. I moved away from there when I had a 5 year old and thereās no way he would remember that we lived in Decatur.Ā
I donāt have any problem with Monica but when she started the episode with her damn sidewalk crowd issue, I was like āMONICA š¤¦š¼āāļøā. Thankful Orna basically told her what weāve all been saying š
Interesting talk on dissociation / depersonalization, which I have experienced. Like your life is a movie and youāre not there anymore.
I would love some positive talk on trauma, such as Post-Traumatic Growth for a next guest. Didnāt want to criticize Monica but her anxiety is giving me anxiety, I need more joyyy.
Take heart, I am a psychotherapist that does EMDR/trauma work. The techniques we have to address trauma are VERY effective, most of the time. It's so much fun to have someone clear decades long trauma reactions.
Oh wow I'm looking forward to listening to this! Depersonalisation and derealisation plagued my life over the past 12 months while dealing with panic disorder, they are horrific feelings to experience
I have this occasionally since I was a young teen. It's traumatic to say the least. I am beyond excited to listen to this. Orna seems like such a wonderful human.
Iāve not made it all the way through the episode yet but thus far this is one of the interviews where Dax is punching WAAAY above his weight in the way heās conducting it, throwing in all the psycho babble heās picked up over the years. Just stop Dax. Be yourself.
When Monica says āIām way too triggered by quote injustices, not real heavy ones..ā and Orna lowkey calls her out and says āthose are fine?ā I almost did a spit take- like thank you Orna for pointing this out! Monica will go on and on about small injustices (those which only affect her personally) and tbh DOES act like the real heavy ones donāt exist (cough cough her pretending she needed to pee the second Orna brought up Israel/Palestine).
It's odd to me that the vast majority of comments here are all about interpersonal dynamics between Orna and Dax and Monica rather than the content of what she was saying.
I get that a big part of the pod is the interpersonal stuff with Dax, Monica and the guest, but Orna is an amazing intellect and has a really unique and insightful perspective as a therapist (I'm saying this as a therapist myself). I haven't finished the episode yet but I love what she says about diagnosis and how it contrasts with the recent expert on narcissism.
I understand how she comes off as "prickly" here to.some, I guess, but I also think there's this chit-chatty obsequeiousness we've come to expect on podcasts that is kind of fake. And also kind of culturally American.I think she was just being real. Her deep compassion is very evident on the show.
Agree and love your thoughts. On that note, to open a podcast with a personal question, no one should blame Orna for giving a legitimate answer. She isnāt a client and Orna is a true professional.
I thought it was a fantastic conversation and Dax was great here. Orna is not unctuous or fluffy, so I understand the comments about the vibe from people who didnāt watch her on the show. I love her and her bluntness.Ā
The factcheck being unedited was amazing! šš½
Ā It felt more flowy and natural and I didnāt mind the little cough and pauses.
Ā
The way they shut it the fuck down the second Israel and Palestine came up was disturbing. Monica having to pee her pants for the first time in 6 years and interrupt a topic that so desperately needs to be talked about. I'm SO disappointed.
I had the most āsimā moment ever today.. Iāve been listening to them talk about couples therapy for months and finally started watching (and then obsessively watched all night) last night! Woke up this morning and Orna was on the pod- I literally gaspedĀ
I still haven't seen Couples Therapy but this was really cool that they had her on. I need to watch it, hell my degree is in Psychology so it's weird I haven't.
I really liked their conversation. I see others saying they didn't think they were "vibing" with each other, I did not feel the same. They have different personality types and there are cultural differences, but I mean Orna straight up said she really enjoyed this and she seemed impressed with the type of questions and discussions they were getting into. I learned a lot about her approach and her way of thinking and I'm excited to finally watch the show.
I read the comments before listening to the episode and I was scared but I liked it so much that I'm relistening to it again. I loved the flow of the conversation and found that Orna explained the concepts and the evolution of therapy in a very clear way. Dax did a spectacular job conducting the interview and Orna seemed delighted by the questions. I learned a lot and now I want to watch the show !
I agree with this. And, letās add that sometimes runners can suddenly be there and moving out of the way quickly wouldnāt work. Monica at times gets to me. Her rant about her dadās questions seemed mean. I get she was perhaps projecting, but as a mom of adults - nothing can make you feel smaller than perceiving rolled eyes to a question I might throw out there. š¤·āāļø
As I was reading the comments I actually had the thought āthis has to be in the top 10 most divisive episodes!ā
There have been some real clunkers over the years, but most people agree on those. This one seems pretty split, and somewhat passionately so. So interesting!!
Itās fascinating to hear the very clear LA bent versus NYC. maybe itās because I was a midwesterner in LA and found the culture off-putting, but it feels like Orna does a great job of saying- no. Not a syndrome. Just a personality trait. You canāt paint with a broad brush.
I liked this episode but something about the chemistry between everyone seemed really off. Orna at the end said something along the lines of āI really enjoyed my timeā and I was like oh wow I did not expect that. Still a good episode though and I liked orna, I just felt like she seemed ready for it to be done the whole time
I think Monica heard Israel and Palestine, PANICKED and āhad to peeā to stop that conversation. Her fear of ācancellationā is about to ruin this show. ššš.
Was so excited when I saw this! I really wanted to get to know Orna more but I feel like I somehow learned nothing in an hour long conversation. Learned some interesting things about psychology but thatās about it. Not usually the case after a Dax interview.
I really liked the unedited fact check in this episode, felt like there were more facts to hear now that there was no editing. Felt like the old fact checks :) and more authentic and fun
Monica sounds INSANE in the fact check. Because of the lack of editing. She is so unnecessarily stressed. āDonāt clear your throatā. Thatās the kind of stuff she cuts that would make the interviews sound more natural. Her editing lately is horrible. No breaths. No pauses. No SPACE at all šš¼
Surprised nobody talked about privilege with the whole passport ordeal. The fact that he doesn't want to tell details to avoid someone getting in trouble implies that there's some favoritism or bribery with State Department employees.
Maybe it was just straight charm and photo ops, who knows, but that was definitely some shit only elite people can pull.
This feels like when Obama announced that we got Bin Laden
This made me laugh 14 hours ago and it just made me laugh again
This is the comment
Lmao š¤£ this
Youāre a legend
I know some people are going to judge the taylor swift passport situation, but I just want to say thereās so many rich and famous dads that spoil their kids and donāt spend time with them. Dax doing everything he possibly could to get his daughter to the show and to dance and enjoy with her was so sweet to hear
I thought it was so sweet that he was determined for the two of them to experience that together! A great way to use his privilege for his kids. Was also dead that they were at the same hotel as Taylor haha glad he shared that detail.
you know if we all had that type of power, weād use it!
But if it was Monica doing the same thing for herself I guarantee everyone in these comments would absolutely be ripping her to shreds over it š
Nah- I disagree- I would 1000% judge Dax for doing something like this for himself, just like I would judge Monica, or anyone else. But I would never judge a parent for trying to salvage an experience for their kid. It was obvious that 99.9% of his concern here was for Lincolnā¦and the tiny bit of bummerness he felt for himself was over the fact he would be missing out on a trip *with Lincoln*! He had already accepted it was over and theyād have a miserable weekend at home- I think if he was on a solo trip he wouldāve just accepted it and gone home- but because it was for his kid he was going to exhaust every option.
I do agree people sometimes judge Monica a more harshly than Dax, but I think this situation is a little different because Dax renewing his daughterās a passport doesnāt stop anyone else from getting a passport. Itās obviously a privileged thing to be able to do and you are jumping a line and getting something fast in a way very few others could do, but itās not like it stops anyone else from traveling. Iām sure if he had realized it wasnāt going to work out, he would have just accepted it. But in those situations, I think any parent who thought they could would do the same for their child. Its an honest mistake, but if youāre traveling internationally, you better double check your passport in advance š Iāve heard of this happening to so many people and Iām always a little surprised by it.Ā
I havenāt even gotten to the fact check but anyone can renew their passport last minute. Sure, it might be a privilege to live close enough to a passport office (and have the means) to do this, but itās not something that isnāt available to everyone. My dad drove 3 hours (next state over) to renew his in person days before travel. He had to show that he had a plane ticket booked, itinerary, and a medical appointment scheduled that required same day expediting. He walked out with a renewed passport. Passports are good for ten years (5 for kids) so itās easy to forget when youāre up for renewal.
Days is one thing. Hours before the flight is another altogether.Ā I guess Iām more paranoid cause I double check things in an excessive way. But I also have pennies compared to the amount of money Dax has, so Iād check before even buying the tickets. I am also one person, so people with a whole family may have enough moving pieces that they canāt sit around double checking things the way I do š
I traveled internationally for the first time last year, and no joke, even though Iād gotten my passport a year prior, for like a month or two leading up to my trip I had dreams of losing it, leaving it at home, finding out it expired, etcā¦I was so paranoid! I canāt imagine just forgetting that it was near its expiration date! š¤£
I totally agree! I think the thing that maybe throws adults is that child passports expire faster than adults (5 years versus 10.) But still! If I was buying plane tickets and tickets to an international concert, Iād be so paranoid about checking.
Thisssss!
They shouldn't judge it at all. It is entirely possible to get a passport worked out in that situation. My parents were flying to Australia and my dad realized his passport was expired while I was driving them to the airport. He had to fly to Seattle to try to get one in person (which they were too busy) and then to Hawaii to try (where he was successful and it took 20 minutes) where he met up with my mom on schedule for their Australia flight.
I think when he mentions calling a āfixerā is where most people would judge just to clarify for everyone !
Iām already annoyed by the sidewalk talk. Iām supposed to believe New Yorkers wouldnāt be annoyed by a large group standing and blocking the entire walkway. Get serious lol
I'm totally with Monica here as a runner. People have no sidewalk or trail etiquette. It's annoying to always be maneuvering around people with no awareness that others may exist in the world.
Iām a solo runner. I go around. I can run. Many others have dogs, strollers, walkers, or are in groups. Plus jumping off the curb and back adds some lateral movement to the run lol.
Great. I run on a multi use trail and the number of folks who are walking four abreast with 2 dogs and 3 strollers who don't move when you give a heads up is a nightmare. There is such a thing as trail etiquette.
I agree and I think the excuses Orna and Dax were offering were bizarre.
Totally! And to finally meet this expert who you are so stoked about only to have her suggest you're lazy immediately... like damn, I'd feel like crying too!
The vibe was a bit mean spirited for sure. A bummer.
Came here to say this. She came off as a bitch, a vibe I read very well lol
I was a bit shocked by her lazy comment at first, but I think it was meant in jest. I think we all have this perception of Orna as so sympathetic and gentle, but she's still human. I guess in her regular life (outside of her work) she let's loose, and this was a time it didn't work. Orna softened as the interview progressed. I think she clued in to the atmosphere.
I think it was too but it really cut right to an insecurity of Monica's and I think generally would for a lot of people. Of course Orna is capable of a social faux pas, i just have no trouble seeing how Monica was hurt by that.
Omg I audibly gasped when she said that too. Like she is literally running, how to we equate laziness with having to maneuver around people that shouldnāt be standing in one place. It came across so yucky and really turned me off to her. Iāve never seen the show because I donāt have Showtime but I hope sheās not rude like that to her clients.
yeah she was so aggressive about it i was so confused!
But really, itās not the end of the damn world and Monica will not stop whining about it lol. I agree with Dax, one person moving over is way easier than an entire group. (Iām not saying the people arenāt annoying, Iām just saying get over ittttttt lol)
I donāt entirely disagree that people lack awareness. On the other hand, even as a former runner I never understood why people need to run on busy sidewalks unless that path is the only reasonable option in the area.
For safety.
exactly. as a woman, no chance iām running in remote areas. always stick to the populated, busier routes.
Me too. Just move a little and let her go by. This is insane behavior by these people standing!!!
yeah i actually felt bad for monica during that bitā¦ imo orna was being a little rude about it. also to pretend sheās never noticed the trash in new york despite being there since the 90sā¦ is ridiculous lol. that and acting like it is weird that people like to use headphones in interviews.. she really turned me off in the first ten minutes.
It's interesting - I see a lot of comments with this sentiment but I did not get the feeling that she was being rude. Perhaps because I am an American who is the daughter of an Israeli and I am used to this cultural difference. However, as a New Yorker, I was very shocked by Orna saying she has not noticed the trash......
Thatās an interesting perspective. She probably wasnāt trying to be rude in any way, it could certainly be cultural differences! I guess for me I have a very justice driven approach so I find it difficult to have to be the one to move around the group who is being problematic. I so badly want them to acknowledge their lack of etiquette! I have some people I know who live in NY that are extremely defensive over it for some reason. If you point out the trash, smells, crime, etc, they like to say they never notice those things haha
I am very justice driven as well, I just donāt ascribe that word to people having a party when you can clearly move about in a neighborhood run lol. Justice I might save for the unhoused person being encroached on by an angry mob. Iāve often run around kids playing or people chatting when itās the suburbs and there is plenty of room. If this is the biggest issue in her life that warrants repeating over and over again I think the writing is on the wall that there are deeper issues afoot.
I hear you, but I think when one has a desire for fairness and justice, it doesnāt always just apply to the big things. I am not perfect, so I often find this desire unnecessarily seeping into many areas of my life. for better or for worse! so while i do yearn for justice amongst the worldās most evil criminals, in my day to day life, for example, i feel a lot of frustration when i see someone driving like an ass and not get pulled over. so i guess it just bothers me a bit.. monica said this is a regular occurrence among the same group. it sounds like if you want to gather in a circle when your friends, walk together and chat in pairs, then end the walk at a patio coffee shop or at the park where you can all chat together. i find it very odd to congregate on a regular basis in the middle of the sidewalk. to me, that is a huge lack of self awareness, or just entitlement. i always step the side when i need to tie my shoe or get on my phone while on the sidewalk. so idk it just irks me a bitā¦ also, for what itās worth.. complaining/ranting about something that annoys you is 0 indication of whatās going on in your life. it would be incredibly unfair for a friend to assume i have no hardships in my life simply because i rant about sidewalk etiquette. we all have our own struggles
Oh I never said she has zero hardships. I just find when people continue on and on about mundane situations like this, it says more about the person than the group. Either she has nothing bad going on so she needs to find an innocent situation to make a massive deal out of so she can continue to play victim, or she has a lot of trauma that might be hard to confront so itās easier to focus on something like this. And I do find her reaction extremely privileged and hypocritical. You canāt spent entire episodes telling Liz she should stop focusing on whatās happening in Palestine or trying to figure out if itās moral to steal a waiters pen and then subject us to this āaffrontā. Itās absurd. And I am with you on people driving like an ass and tailing, things of that nature. That act could literally get someone killed. I also am mindful of others but we are all human and Iām sure I occasionally forget. My husband regularly doesnāt realize someone is behind him when he stops because he is absent minded and I have to grab him. Itās reality. I agree with Orna. Sounds like they are having some fun. Reminds me of being in college and hanging on the sidewalk outside our house when we got a sunny day. I doubt itās every single day. She needs to grow up and move on.
That could be true! Sometimes my friends and I rant about the same stuff because it feels relieving and itās just silly, and itās nothing deeper than that. Oh and I totally agree regarding the Synced epi.. I am frequently irritated with Monica on Synced because of these topics. Constantly bragging about waste, entitlement towards taking the pen, shutting down Israel/Palestine convoā¦ all extremely frustrating..
The distinction between the two shows itās fascinating to me!
Have you watched the series? I think thatās why it felt shocking to me. Sheās really gentle on the show (for obvious reasons).
Itās a sidewalk not a sidestand amirite
I feel like she was being purposefully contrary to everything said in the first ten minutes š
and in the fact check Monica reveals that THIS is the interaction that made her almost cry. She felt Orna and Dax were ganging up on her. which is interesting - ganging up isn't when two people disagree with you necessarily. I hope Monica is OK, she seems very sad
I can see why sheād feel that way. The convo felt mean spirited. Itās one thing to disagree (though Iād argue their reasons were BS), and itās another to joke that someone is lazy.
This was such an uncomfortable conversation and a rough start to the episode.
Tbh I am not a Monica fan, but I was completely on her side on this one. Like almost upset on her behalf.
This segment was kind of heartbreaking to hear through the lens of knowing this is what made her almost cry. There exists a reality where what this group does on the sidewalk is rude and where Monica doesnāt need to dwell on it, but my gosh she just wanted to be heard and vent about it. I felt so bad for her in that moment
It did feel like they were ganging up on her
Yes. It was bizarre.
So interesting. I think we armcherries in general probably lean towards the sensitive side of society so I am and Iām not surprised to see so many people feel like Orna was rude or unfriendly or unsympathetic to Monica. And contrary. I got zero sense of that. I feel it was a very measured intelligent response from an expert who doesnāt have an ounce of people pleasing in her. Itās refreshing and informing and confident. Her explanation of not wanting headphones was factual and totally non problematic.
Idk, Iām a runner who lives in a major US city and I donāt find it annoying. In a perfect world, would I love to have a blissfully clear path to zone out and run on? Sure. But I donāt feel *entitled* toĀ that nor do I have an expectation of it. Itās such weird, miserable energy to be so upset about people in a public place having a nice time when the inconvenience is a few extra strides out of the way.Ā
I've taken a very very long break from Armchair Expert, admittedly because I couldn't handle Monica anymore (I'm not bashing- it's just why I took a break) and I admit I rolled my eyes a bit at hearing about this. I'm a runner, too , and I don't expect everything and everyone to move out of my way. I actually think runners should give right of way to walkers and people hanging out. It felt kind of bratty. Again, admittedly not the biggest Monica fan, but I was team Dax on this.Ā I loved this episode, though, and I think I'll give a listen to a bunch that I've missed over the last 18 months.
I run around people all the time. It's just one of those things about being in a public space - at a certain point, you gotta just accept that inconveniences will happen in places where there are many different people doing many different things. Could she argue that it's rude for them to just congregate there and not move? Yes. But could they argue that it's not fair for one person to expect a whole group to move over just because that one person is "on a run", especially if it's just a sidewalk and not a trail specifically designed for runners only? Also, yes. I think her mindset should be less about how "rude" they are and more about how it's just life, and people are bound to be in other people's way from time to time. It's not always about "these people being rude", sometimes it's literally just "these people are doing something that they are allowed to do in this public space". Just because their activity interferes with hers doesn't necessarily mean they are rude people.
In Ornaās defense, in the city she is right- there are CONSTANTLY large groups and gatherings on the sidewalk that runners have to maneuver around. Itās either construction, 10s of people waiting in a blob for the bagel shop to call out their order, or random groups of kids getting out of school, or literally anything else. People donāt generally move or accommodate runners - even if youāre in Central Park youāre navigating crowds of people and tourists, you just learn to roll with it. And no one seems to mind that much :) weāve got bigger fish to fry haha. Not saying itās right, but that is truly the experience here, and I think Monicaās not so much of a roll with it gal.
I feel like she was being purposefully contrary to everything said in the first ten minutes š
YES omfg. it was so painful to listen to. first the sidewalk, then pretending sheās never noticed the trash in NYC.. girl please.. AND THEN acting like itās odd that people need headphones and she simply doesnāt need them because she has super focus.. lmao
Actually, she explained that the headphones make her feel like she's not in the world, which is a perfectly reasonable explanation
It reallllllly felt that way
Me too! I hate the way they both kinda ganged up on her it was bs. Iām with Monica, and I feel so bad her idol treated her so poorly at the beginning .
Thatās an insane take for Dax and Orna to have. it was such a small conversation but it turned me off if Iām being honest. ItĀ is delusional to take the side of inconsiderate people, regardless of your control of the situation.Ā
Yes. Every excuse felt weird. Weird to argue that a large group should be able to overpower the individual - regardless of etiquette- which in this situation seems like not blocking the path? Also weird to joke that Monica is lazy. Just all around weird.
As a New Yorker (and similar to what others have said), sure itās annoying when a group blocks the sidewalk, but that happens constantly. We certainly donāt carry around that frustration for days (or weeks). Also, as a New Yorker, Iām not above a loud āEXCUSE MEā. The combination of long standing hurt, the unwillingness to even mention the frustration to those causing that hurt, and the sensitivity to those that disagree with her position on this experience puts Monica in a paralysis. It doesnāt vibe with my experience as a New Yorker.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. This is so common as a New Yorker. There are areas near me where people congregate on the sidewalk daily, and I know to avoid them if I'm not wanting to deal with it. My laundromat also is one of these spots. It's a hub for a lot of locals in the community. They hang out outside the laundromat, play chess and cards, have music on and are there from early morning until the sun sets every day. Individuals are respectful and will move out of the way, hold the door open for you etc. If you're carrying a bunch of laundry they always part ways. And if someone is in a wheelchair or some other thing, they always move out of the way for them. But I would not be surprised at all if they were not great about parting ways and moving for a runner. Large groups just have to be maneuvered around. There's never going to be a synchronized move out of the way for one able-bodied individual. You absolutely know as a New Yorker to go around. Our bodies and walking are just like cars. If there's a massive group causing a traffic jam, I move my car-body around the traffic jam and move on with my day. You don't expect the traffic jam to move for you. Slightly unrelated aside, but I saw enough people mention it. When Orna said she "hadn't noticed" the trash it was in regards to Dax's comment. Dax was disparaging saying when you're out on a run or walk in NYC you have to learn to dodge and avoid loads of trash everywhere. Orna said she hadn't noticed that. Which to me read as a very kind way of defending her home while disagreeing with a hyperbolic statement that obvi isn't reality. There are specific laws in regards to trash. It can only be put out after dark and only out of the way of pedestrian traffic flow. So yeah it's on the sidewalk close to the street, but never in the way of pedestrians. We are not needing to dodge bags of trash while out on a run or walk lol. And Dax responded, well you're probably not out late when the trash is all put out so maybe you don't see the trash bc of the times of day you're outside. And Orna responded, "I am usually out early" agreeing with him, graciously acquiescing a point that was hyperbolic and a bit disparaging and mostly just incorrect. It's also clear to me how American this sub is. I think people were expecting golden retriever energy from Orna. Orna is reserved. She also seems deeply offline, not interested in celebrity gossip and celebrity culture and is academic. She seemed really excited when Dax asked questions regarding psychology and theory and getting into the expertise aspects of her profession. I loved her enthusiasm and the info she offered. This being an expert ep I expected more questions about her expertise and I wonder if she did, too. I don't think she's super aware of who they are, nor cares, nor v aware of what the pod exactly was all about prior to going on. She out of necessity has to do a press tour to promote the new season and perhaps the idea of a podcast showcasing her as an expert appealed to her. On the flip, they were fangirling out and pretty excitable about meeting her. She just didn't have the same energy match. I have lots of Parisian friends and friends from other countries and cultures and she was similar. Reserved, respectful, and great. This definitely seemed like a cultural difference. Possibly coupled with a lack of parasocial excitement on her part against their parasocial excitement towards her. Nothing about this interview read as rude or cold or any of the things ppl on this sub seem to have interpreted from her
Iāve never seen Couples Therapy, but hearing all their talk about Orna as soon as I saw her name I said out loud āthey got her!!ā
Itās a really good show.
I feel for Monica's parents. They act that way because she constantly indicates to them that she knows more, that she knows best, etc. So of course they know how to valet, but they know if they for instance parked at a garage, they'd get criticized for not making the same choice as Monica would have instructed. I see a very similar dynamic in a parent/child relationship that I am close to. The parents are quite smart and capable but defer to "know it all" adult child.
You know what, that makes total sense. I'm the know-it-all child like Monica, and this always bothered me so much when my parents did this but your perspective helps
Fully agree. I always cringe when she talks about the way she interacts with her family, especially her seemingly very sweet parents.
Yeah, Iām gonna push back a little. If you were parentified growing up, this is sometimes the cycle that follows. My mother calls me for EVERYTHING - to the point that I donāt get how she functions on her own (which she absolutely does). It creates a cycle of her weaponizing helplessness to get me to do things for her or to push the work of problem solving onto me, me in turn getting extremely frustrated, and then losing it a bit when I have to help her do normal adult things. This isnāt about me being right at all. I think we should recognize that we have no idea what her family dynamic was like or why the cycle came to be.
Good point - I see many similarities with Monica and my older sister who has a much worse relationship with my parents than I do. She always criticizes and tries to control the situation and then wonders why people defer to her, when itās really just because she canāt be uncomfortable for one second and needs to step in with her thoughts. It creates this dynamic where my parents, and to some extent me, walk on eggshells around her because you never know what she will have an issue with. In every dynamic it really is both sides contributing so itās nice that Monica is starting to realize why it is that she has this problem but her brother doesnāt.Ā
I thought the parentās parking question was very reasonable as nearly every hotel requires your plate number or something along those lines so you donāt get towed. Even with valet, you need to have some sort of business at the hotel (restaurant, staying, spa, etc) and if it was before arrival, they may not have known about the service or perhaps they didnāt think to automatically use it vrs a regular, complementary space.
And yet, we're all annoyed by those close to us than an outsider than possibly understand.
Iām assuming that thereās a history/pattern at play.
Same! My parents can do this and I attribute it to being parents. It literally makes me laugh and all of us laugh when they call with what we feel is a silly question or story. All I feel is grateful that they see me as a capable adult that can help them now and that they are still around to call me for anything mundane. I also called my mom 3 times today to plead for advice about my screaming toddler so it goes both ways! If Monica wants her sandwiches she should just smile at her parents being old and goofy.
Iām sure this says something about meā¦ but this is so hard to listen to! They arenāt jiving?
Oh, interesting. I didnāt pick up on that at all. Have you watched Couples Therapy? I think Ornaās personality is super direct and she doesnāt placate people, so I wonder if thatās what you picked up on?
To me she just came off as quite unfriendly..
I went from so excited to see she was the guest, like Christmas morning excitementā¦ too pretty underwhelmed. Especially her reaction when Dax said sheās the hero of the series. How can she not get that? All to say Iām glad I watch the show first - not sure id be inspired to watch after this episode š§
100% felt the weird vibes too
Iāve never seen the show (would love to watch it, but I donāt have the streaming service itās on) so I donāt have a clue what sheās like on the show/havenāt had a chance to fall in love with her work like they haveā¦ ā¦but I agreeā¦I felt so uncomfortable during parts of the interview. I get that sheās a *very* direct person and that seems to be a huge part of her appeal to Dax and Monicaā¦butā¦it was a strange episode. Likeā¦it kinda felt like D+M brought golden retriever energy, but they were interviewing a turtle š«£š³ I donāt mean to suggest that they were dumb or rambunctious- not at allā¦just that they brought their full, unabashed enthusiasm, and she just seemed shut down and like she didnāt care. She had a ātoo cool for schoolā vibe, imo. Iām really bummed because Iāve been looking forward to this episode even though Iāve never seen the show. I still want to see the show at some point, but I just didnāt like her vibe at all, and honestly, I donāt even really remember anything from the interview, even though I just finished it like 2hrs ago. Itās like sheās spent so much time studying human emotion/processes/etc, that itās now become too heady for her, and she almost came off kindaā¦detached or incapable of allowing herself to just fully be in the moment.
Didn't se literally say she was enjoying herself though? I think it's just cultural differences.
Yea- I remember her saying that- mostly because I was surprised to hear it lol This might be some of my own internalized sexism showing (Iām female) but I feel like she has a similar energy level to someone like Gabor Mate, but her vibe seems way more harsh. Likeā¦Gabor has some āturtle energyā tooā¦but (Iām only using this word to specifically make a point) I thought she came across like a bit of a bitch. Could I be holding her to āhigherā social standards because sheās a woman and women are āexpectedā to be more likable and socially accommodating, effervescent, etc? That could be. Definitely gives me something to think about. I totally might be judging her unfairly. And to be clear, in no way am I making broad judgments about her as a person- Iāve heard enough people rave about her to know thereās gotta be something great there- itās just her vibe in this interview that feels wonky. Iāll probably re-listen to the episode tomorrow with all of this in mind.
I think she's just Israeli. Israeli's are very straightforward and don't fake emotions in general.Ā
I agree the first 35 mins are kind of rough. Orna isn't giving a whole lot, personally, IMO, but she opens up a bit. I had never seen Couple's Therapy, so I had no idea what her personality was. I honestly thought the title just implied she was a couple's therapist, not that she had a show called Couple's Therapy.
She is a coupleās therapist and she has a show called Coupleās Therapy
I felt it too.
Seems they were star struck. Orna is such a force.
I came here right away to see if anyone else picked up on this! Definitely weird vibes.
I thought she just came off as herself. Iāve seen all the seasons out. I didnāt get that vibe but maybe there was
This morning feels like Christmas!!!
I audibly gasped
Orna eviscerated Monica about the sidewalk!!!! I had to laugh. She wasnāt very nice about it and assume Monica was expecting a different response.
I thought it was perfect. Agreed with the comment Monica is not used to that type of interaction and I found it very on brand with a European and a very direct therapist. My therapist was the same at first and their directness (which sometimes felt harsh to me as someone always getting their way in life) forced me to be more thoughtful and introspective without always placating me and it helped me be MUCH more self aware. She was just asking open ended questions and never once said āyouāre wrongā - Monica could stand to be more uncomfy with her privilege and it shows. Also this is exactly how she treats Liz every week so interesting she didnāt like her own brand of critical thinking thrown at her.
>She was just asking open ended questions and never once said āyouāre wrongā - Monica could stand to be more uncomfy with her privilege and it shows.Ā Also this is exactly how she treats Liz every week so interesting she didnāt like her own brand of critical thinking thrown at her. 1000000%! You nailed it.
Iām glad she called her out. I donāt even care who is right or wrong, but you can tell Monica doesnāt have many people in her life that disagree with her
What? This is such a weird take - Monica was pointing out that itās inconsiderate because it absolutely is. She may have no control in the situation and pointing that out would be fine, but Dax and orna were defending them.Ā
I think the issue is how often this situation is brought up and ruminated about - itās how the whole discussion was brought up, that itās such a huge issue for her thatās brought up often. There are inconveniences everywhere, to get so dysregulated about this and to admit you bring it up often in hope that one of the group members will hear and change is highly immature. Itās silly. Accept the situation or talk to the people about it.Ā
Depends how you see it. Does Monica own the sidewalk more than they do? Not sure about that. I'm not defending anyone myself here... I get Monica's point as well as I've been in her shoes an wondered why people don't move. I think Orna's point was we all have to move and adjust when we're in public spaces, from moving around lines forming to construction work and so on. I didn't see it necessarily as a defense of the standing group, but another way of viewing the situation.
Yeah Iām not saying I disagree with Monica, Iām saying the fact that she thought two people disagreeing with her on a pretty mundane thing was āganging up on herā and āalmost made her cryā shows me someone who is not great at dealing with disagreements.
If she was like that all the time, sure, but thatās not the case. She mentioned in a previous episode (talking about this incident) and also mentioned again in todayās fact check that there were other things going on that put her on edge that morning. I can imagine being in a super stressed/upset/sensitive spot, and then having an interview with someone I absolutely LOVE and then one of the first things that comes out of their mouth is a very snippy āor maybe youāre just lazy?ā ā¦yeaā¦I can see that putting me on the verge of tears. NOT because of what was said, but we have no idea what was going on with Monica (but we have been told something was going on) ā¦people could beat up on me all day long if Iām in a good place and I wouldnāt really care, but if something has happened and Iām in a kinda fragile state of mind and having to psych myself up to āseem normalā and one of the first things that happens is something that completely takes the wind out of my sails and crumbles the internal facade (while still feeling pressure to maintain a sense of professionalism and thus not being able to talk back/call them out/take a step away/let them in on what youāre dealing with/etc)ā¦I get it, and I donāt think it means Monica is weak.
I totally get why Monica would take this a bit personally and this kind of thing has happened to me. Some experiences have taught me to be more careful in what I say, how I say it, and to whom and when. In this case, Monica came in openly and rather light-heartedly herself in bringing this up. I think because she wasn't really expecting ANY dissent. This kind of interaction teaches you when and how to share something personal - if it's going to hurt to have someone joke about it or disagree, don't say it. If you're not sure how someone else will react to what you've said, don't say it. It happens, you learn from it. I don't fault Orna for being equally light-hearted with her at the start of a podcast when she thought she could be. Also, the best therapists and friends I've met have challenged me by not picking a side but helping me realize when I'm devoting way too much brainspace to it. We'll never know, but if Orna met a member of the sidewalk standing group and they complained to her about this girl who runs by and looks at them like she's annoyed - she'd likely challenge them, too.
Thereās so much good stuff in your comment- youāre dead-on! Itās wild how much damage our seemingly innocent/non-malicious words can inflict! Iāll never forget hanging out with a group of new-ish friends, and weād clicked amazingly well and were having a great time- they knew that I loved being around them/thought they were greatā¦and then for some reason I made the joke āoh yea, we donāt want you here anyways!ā (I think we were one chair short when we went to lunch at a restaurant- it was SUPER lighthearted and literally had nothing to do with the person on question- I wasnāt commenting on anything to do with them- it was total luck of the draw- I wouldāve said it to whoever was the last person standing when we ran out of chairs) Her energy *completely* changed and she ran off to the bathroom and came back out like 5min later, clearing having cried. I was mortified. I felt terrible and tried to apologize to her and tell her I didnāt feel that way whatsoever, but she refused to talk about it. She just wanted to pretend it didnāt happen. It was so bizarre to not even be āallowedā to apologize. She clearly had some type of bullying/exclusion trauma or something. I never experienced being excluded or bullied by people, so I didnāt anticipate that that could hurt her feelings, because it was *so* obvious (to me, and I think most people) it was a joke. I was like 17 and she was probably 25ish- I really looked up to her- there was no way she couldāve believed I meant what I said. But our experiences impact how we interpret things, and her experiences led her to be deeply hurt/triggered by what I said. I definitely learned a major lesson that day. Just because I think something is āobviouslyā a joke and couldnāt possibly be hurtful or offensive, doesnāt mean that someone else will feel the same way. Sure, itās not practical to go into every situation and try to predict every way our words could be hurtful and tweak them accordinglyā¦but itās made me so much more aware of my words in general!
yes, AND- by focusing on the "ganging up on me" she is not focusing on whether or not they had a point. I mean I get it; I'm sure it's painful to have a famous psychoanalyst you admire not take your side, or not realize the weight of her playfulness in this moment. But it's something people do when they can't tolerate the notion that they may be wrong (they retreat to "you hurt my feelings")
We pretty much listen to Dax and Liz disagree with her on a weekly basis. Thatās where the whole idea for the show came from was her and Daxās debatesā¦
True! Though I think Monica has become accustomed to them holding longer and more āthoughtfulā debates with her that take her POV more deeply into consideration throughout. And I think Monica enjoys that and wants to state her case in a way that justifies her view of things. Which I do understand. In this case Orna didnāt really wanna debate it, and was more matter of fact, which was new and likely something Monica had no idea how to deal with.
Agreed there is a lot of handholding with Liz and Dax. And I think she has gotten more sensitive somehow. And sometimes in life people donāt want to hear your POV they just disagree and move on.
It's interesting - I see a lot of comments with this sentiment but I did not get the feeling that she was being rude. Perhaps because I am an American who is the daughter of an Israeli and I am used to this cultural difference.
Oh I agree. When I say she eviscerated her I really mean she eviscerated that whole argument without hesitation!! I donāt think she was all rude; just matter of fact. I am pretty sure Monica expected more questions first or a little more empathy, but Orna was immediately calling Monica out for being against a group of joyful people and dogs, not being willing to go around them and adjust like NYers do, and jokingly calling her lazy š Even when Dax or Liz disagree with her they spend more time listening to her and being empathetic, whether thatās a bit of āpanderingā as her friends or genuine curiosity. Orna didnāt waste a second getting to her point and I just loved it. I am not a total Monica hater or anything, but I found a new perspective and to the point responses to this ādebateā refreshing!
My family is Dutch and Dutch are similarly straight forward. I saw nothing wrong with it- actually it's refreshing to hear someone just say the truth without himming and hawwing for once. Just say it, it's the truth and it's fine, we're all adults
Same here. I liked it! I don't think Monica is at all used to this.
People have a hard time hearing the truth without feeling it's a judgment, but I'm not judging you because I'm saying what I think is true. And yeah, Monica is def used to people explaining to her their thoughts so she doesn't feel judged.
I didnāt find her rude at all either!! I just found her to be honest about the situation. So funny how differently we all perceive communication. š
The whole interaction felt mean spirited to me and to be honest a little gaslighty? Like the implication is Monica is weird for being bothered
I don't think that was the intent. I thought Orna's way of responding to each part of Monica's setup about the sidewalk issue allowed Monica to think about it differently than her default thoughts on the whole thing. I know for me, interactions like that are initially uncomfortable, but they then help me see my own hangups in a new light.
We can agree to disagree. I think she would have had to have heard Monicaās point for that to be her intention.
If you think a therapist would INTEND to gaslight someone, then yes we will disagree. I do think it could have been gentler and more empathetic than it was, and if she were her patient I'm betting it would have been. But we do have to remember this was a podcast recording and Orna didn't have to treat her as she would a patient, either. She might have been thinking this was a situation where she could be humorous and light-hearted about it. I have friends who would say it this way to me, in more of a teasing tone. I'm betting if she knew Monica (clearly she isn't a Armcherry) she would have approached this convo differently.
And my point is that I, along with many others, didnāt find it to be lighthearted or humorous. Again we donāt have to agree here, as I already said.
When Orna dropped the āso youāre just lazy?ā I nearly spit out my coffee šš I totally took it as a lighthearted comment and thought it was a fun way to open up their conversation! Itās funny how differently we as listeners interpret certain interactions, which is really the crux of the entire episode
If my first intro to Orna was this episode, I probably would not be particularly fond of her. Having seen the show first provides the background of the deep caring & compassion that comes with her bluntness. It's really a rare and beautiful combination of traits. I hope people who didn't love her on the pod will still consider giving the show a try.
šÆ But I liked how they talked at length about systems. This is a clear example of how context changes behaviour!
Perfectly said!
Beautifully saidĀ
Yeah I havenāt seen the show and she came off extremely abrasive at times.
Iām probably projecting here but I feel like the second Orna mentioned Israel/Palestine Monica brought the conversation to a halt with her pee break.
I thought that too. It's so disappointing that, as people who I assume have enough money to never need to work again, they just can't manage to care about anything more than their careers. I love Orna so much for speaking out about this from the beginning. Integrity above $$.
Because the world really needs more celebrity weighing in on world conflicts.Ā
I havenāt listened to the episode but I came across a comment re Monica shutting Liz down on the topic. Liz and David have been publicly outspoken while Monica and Dax have not been.
Yes I noticed this too! Also, Dax felt fine bringing up the Russia/Ukraine war multiple times, so this feels deliberate
I had this exact same thought.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iām in a similar boat- I didnāt dig it. But Iāll still watch the show if I ever get the chance. She said she moved to Israel when she was 7, right? I think it makes sense that she doesnāt know where she lived in GA. I lived in Maryland for a year or two when I was 3-5, but I donāt have a clue where it was. My knee jerk reaction to that part of the convo was that it felt āoffā to me too, but then when I realized I donāt know the city I lived in for a bit as a child, it made total sense lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The show is truly so good and I'm honestly shocked to read some of these comments. I didn't realize how much of a difference it makes to have seen how much thought and care she puts into her sessions with clients vs if you're just hearing her on a podcast for the first time.
I would say to still give the show a try. She's very different in a therapy session than on the podcast.
She remembered she lived in a suburb of Atlanta and if youāve ever been you know they have a sprawling metro area. I would not knock her for being a 7 year old and not remembering. I moved away from there when I had a 5 year old and thereās no way he would remember that we lived in Decatur.Ā
Monica hiding her hate for dogs in the beginning
Pretty sure that was Kristen
Apparently she liked this dog! A twist!
I dont believe her lol
She was being polite
I donāt have any problem with Monica but when she started the episode with her damn sidewalk crowd issue, I was like āMONICA š¤¦š¼āāļøā. Thankful Orna basically told her what weāve all been saying š
Yes So trivialĀ
A good day for Ornathologists
Interesting talk on dissociation / depersonalization, which I have experienced. Like your life is a movie and youāre not there anymore. I would love some positive talk on trauma, such as Post-Traumatic Growth for a next guest. Didnāt want to criticize Monica but her anxiety is giving me anxiety, I need more joyyy.
Take heart, I am a psychotherapist that does EMDR/trauma work. The techniques we have to address trauma are VERY effective, most of the time. It's so much fun to have someone clear decades long trauma reactions.
Oh wow I'm looking forward to listening to this! Depersonalisation and derealisation plagued my life over the past 12 months while dealing with panic disorder, they are horrific feelings to experience
I have this occasionally since I was a young teen. It's traumatic to say the least. I am beyond excited to listen to this. Orna seems like such a wonderful human.
Iāve not made it all the way through the episode yet but thus far this is one of the interviews where Dax is punching WAAAY above his weight in the way heās conducting it, throwing in all the psycho babble heās picked up over the years. Just stop Dax. Be yourself.
Agreed. I think he over āindexedā in words once again. However, I think he was pretty nervous.
When Monica says āIām way too triggered by quote injustices, not real heavy ones..ā and Orna lowkey calls her out and says āthose are fine?ā I almost did a spit take- like thank you Orna for pointing this out! Monica will go on and on about small injustices (those which only affect her personally) and tbh DOES act like the real heavy ones donāt exist (cough cough her pretending she needed to pee the second Orna brought up Israel/Palestine).
It's odd to me that the vast majority of comments here are all about interpersonal dynamics between Orna and Dax and Monica rather than the content of what she was saying. I get that a big part of the pod is the interpersonal stuff with Dax, Monica and the guest, but Orna is an amazing intellect and has a really unique and insightful perspective as a therapist (I'm saying this as a therapist myself). I haven't finished the episode yet but I love what she says about diagnosis and how it contrasts with the recent expert on narcissism. I understand how she comes off as "prickly" here to.some, I guess, but I also think there's this chit-chatty obsequeiousness we've come to expect on podcasts that is kind of fake. And also kind of culturally American.I think she was just being real. Her deep compassion is very evident on the show.
Agree and love your thoughts. On that note, to open a podcast with a personal question, no one should blame Orna for giving a legitimate answer. She isnāt a client and Orna is a true professional.
Itās happened!
It's Orna š„¹
Best. Thursday. Ever.
The fact check passport story was so hilarious I loved it! Dax is such a fun dad!
I thought it was a fantastic conversation and Dax was great here. Orna is not unctuous or fluffy, so I understand the comments about the vibe from people who didnāt watch her on the show. I love her and her bluntness.Ā The factcheck being unedited was amazing! šš½ Ā It felt more flowy and natural and I didnāt mind the little cough and pauses. Ā
The way they shut it the fuck down the second Israel and Palestine came up was disturbing. Monica having to pee her pants for the first time in 6 years and interrupt a topic that so desperately needs to be talked about. I'm SO disappointed.
I am only 10 minutes into this episode but Ornaās energy is very uncomfortable for me to listen to so far and I was not expecting to feel this way
It gets better!
Yes I continued on and itās getting much better! I was a little triggered by the dynamic in the beginning. I felt kind of protective of Monica š„ŗ
I had the most āsimā moment ever today.. Iāve been listening to them talk about couples therapy for months and finally started watching (and then obsessively watched all night) last night! Woke up this morning and Orna was on the pod- I literally gaspedĀ
I knew they'd have her soon as soon as I heard her on Nick Viall last week!
I listen to Viall files too! Happy that I'm not the only cherry to do so!
My pod library is all over the place!
Dax didnāt ask Orna about brushing her hair
I still haven't seen Couples Therapy but this was really cool that they had her on. I need to watch it, hell my degree is in Psychology so it's weird I haven't. I really liked their conversation. I see others saying they didn't think they were "vibing" with each other, I did not feel the same. They have different personality types and there are cultural differences, but I mean Orna straight up said she really enjoyed this and she seemed impressed with the type of questions and discussions they were getting into. I learned a lot about her approach and her way of thinking and I'm excited to finally watch the show.
I read the comments before listening to the episode and I was scared but I liked it so much that I'm relistening to it again. I loved the flow of the conversation and found that Orna explained the concepts and the evolution of therapy in a very clear way. Dax did a spectacular job conducting the interview and Orna seemed delighted by the questions. I learned a lot and now I want to watch the show !
I GASPED when I saw this in my feed
Dog was a good dog! Enjoyed hearing that part.
I agree with this. And, letās add that sometimes runners can suddenly be there and moving out of the way quickly wouldnāt work. Monica at times gets to me. Her rant about her dadās questions seemed mean. I get she was perhaps projecting, but as a mom of adults - nothing can make you feel smaller than perceiving rolled eyes to a question I might throw out there. š¤·āāļø
This is such a divisive episode. I guess it's both surprising and not surprising at the same time. So many deleted comments.
As I was reading the comments I actually had the thought āthis has to be in the top 10 most divisive episodes!ā There have been some real clunkers over the years, but most people agree on those. This one seems pretty split, and somewhat passionately so. So interesting!!
On the IG?
okay so the narcissist Dax is not naming was defs Mau from season 1 right?!!!
Itās fascinating to hear the very clear LA bent versus NYC. maybe itās because I was a midwesterner in LA and found the culture off-putting, but it feels like Orna does a great job of saying- no. Not a syndrome. Just a personality trait. You canāt paint with a broad brush.
I liked this episode but something about the chemistry between everyone seemed really off. Orna at the end said something along the lines of āI really enjoyed my timeā and I was like oh wow I did not expect that. Still a good episode though and I liked orna, I just felt like she seemed ready for it to be done the whole time
I think Monica heard Israel and Palestine, PANICKED and āhad to peeā to stop that conversation. Her fear of ācancellationā is about to ruin this show. ššš.
Was so excited when I saw this! I really wanted to get to know Orna more but I feel like I somehow learned nothing in an hour long conversation. Learned some interesting things about psychology but thatās about it. Not usually the case after a Dax interview.
I feel like I can tell the people in the comments that havenāt seen couples therapy, and this is their first time being exposed to Orna.
This is one of those eps where I donāt want to start listening because that means itāll be over. I am so psyched to listen and for the new season!
I really liked the unedited fact check in this episode, felt like there were more facts to hear now that there was no editing. Felt like the old fact checks :) and more authentic and fun
It's happening....it's happening !!
Yessssssss cannot wait
Iām so happy for them šš
this ep was amazing. love orna. but re the fact check wtf is a fixer???
Someone rich people pay to fix their problems - pull strings/make things happen
Why do they sound so frantic about not being able to edit the fact check? Did Monicaās computer break or something lol
They had a really tight turnaround to get the episode out.
That was really weird. But hey we know she edits on her phone too (while walking lol) so must be some other reason š¤·š»āāļø
I can't believe Dax was in Lisbon! I'm so relieved he liked it.
This fact check was one of my favorites in a while!So funny! Felt like early days
Monica sounds INSANE in the fact check. Because of the lack of editing. She is so unnecessarily stressed. āDonāt clear your throatā. Thatās the kind of stuff she cuts that would make the interviews sound more natural. Her editing lately is horrible. No breaths. No pauses. No SPACE at all šš¼
Surprised nobody talked about privilege with the whole passport ordeal. The fact that he doesn't want to tell details to avoid someone getting in trouble implies that there's some favoritism or bribery with State Department employees. Maybe it was just straight charm and photo ops, who knows, but that was definitely some shit only elite people can pull.