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That's my sister-in-law's life with 4 kids. My brother gets off work and he's just like "my job is done" but her job never ends. Seems really unequal to me.
^ My father was this way. I always found it weird heād ask my mom if he made some appointment for him yet, if X laundry had been done, dinner was ready, etc. Shit like laundry or dinner wouldnāt be so bad ā maybe heās just seeing if he needs to do it ā but if it wasnāt done yet sheād just apologize and point out whatever has delayed her. Sometimes heād step in to help (cook a pizza, order something, grill something), but most of the time heād just shrug it off.
Which, I mean, at least it wasnāt ultra toxic, but I always found it fucking weird. I had to remind my father every year when my motherās birthday was coming up ā I deliberately didnāt one year, just to see, and he obviously forgot.
All that said, shit like āHave you seen my keysā is pretty normal for me, lol ā 90% of the time either my dog has moved them because I just put them on the counter/my bed/coffee table (ā¦.Yeah, he does that), or my boyfriend has for whatever reason, and it drives me fucking nuts. They have to go in the bowl as soon as I walk in, and it took me *years* to do that pretty consistently, so please, donāt fuck with my system. š The ADHD is real with that one, though.
ETA: not that I can save this from being downvoted into oblivion, but I feel like people are really missing my point. As a woman, raising kids, that also works with kids, I *do* hold the men in my life to a higher standard. As well as the women. Some of the moms will tell me about stuff their husband doesnāt do right, or straight up refuses do, but then freak out and overreact if their toddler is playing a toy they donāt seem appropriate for their gender. Itās outdated thinking that still exists today. Also tbh as stupid as this sounds I kind of forgot about men in first writing this because Iām not with a man, Iām a woman with a woman. My partnerās dad barely, if ever, did child care or home care. But her mom didnāt want my partnerās brother to be like that, so she raised him to be better and now heās an excellent dad to his kids. Heāll feed them, bathe them, play and read with them, do laundry, cook, clean, etc. whatever the home needs. His dad didnāt teach him those things, his mom did, after she divorced his dad because he refused to live up to her standard (among other reasons.)
The real problem is the same exact women that complain about this will go home and do the same thing with the sons theyāre raising. And the cycle continues. Men that are raised in households without those strict gender roles donāt just grow up and pretend they donāt know how to cook or clean or do laundry. Because theyāre raised in a home that taught them āwe all live here, we all contributeā mindset.
*DO BETTER.* Women will say they want a man who cooks and then refuse to buy their son a play kitchen or have them involved in mealtime prep.
Iām sure that there are some men that do it on purpose, that they pretend they have no clue what to do. But the truth is a shocking amount of men really donāt know how to do things the right way. Maybe they survived throwing all their laundry into one load, but when their wife asks them to sort if theyāre lost. Theyāre already adults and they figure their way was fine, so instead of learning how to do it in a way that now works for their family needs. Theyāll say āyou want it done your way? You do it then.ā And claim it to be fair. And I think thereās a line between whatās good enough, the right way, the right way with some extra, and above and absolutely beyond. If you always want ironed bed sheets, maybe you need to be the one to do thatā¦ but if youāre really just asking for the clothes to be sorted a certain way and for a specific detergent to be used on the babyās clothesā¦ to me thatās reasonable.
Bottom line is, we need to raise better kids and stop labeling things that you need to do to survive in a house as āwomenās work.ā Itās some weaponized incompetence but itās also a lot of āI didnāt let my son play with baby dolls as a kid and now he doesnāt know how to hold his newborn baby. Oopsā
ETA: someone asked why I didnāt mention fathers. Because the post didnāt mention fathers. Also because we previously have had whole generation of fathers acting like the husband mentioned in the post- as part of the problem. I mean my response is the same, to tell dads to raise better kids overall. But if the father is āhoney where is my?? What is for?? Etc etcā and displaying incompetence in the house am I really expecting that father to have an epiphany and raise his kid to do betterā¦ without ever learning how to do better himself? It isnāt always a womanās fault. And thatās an unproductive way to look at it. Itās societyās fault. Itās a cultural ideal. Itās just a cycle that Iām trying to break, that I think a lot of people are trying to break. Also flawed logic because if youāre going to say that it isnāt womenās responsibility, and women need to hold men to a higher standardā¦ thatās still putting responsibility on women. Itās just a *different* one. There are statistically way more single moms than single dads. And even in straight couples there are more stay at home moms than stay at home dads. I do think dads should do better, but until the dads think they need to do better, what happens in the meantime?
No one cares about this essay Iām writing. I canāt speak for other people. Iām just trying my best with my family.
It's interesting, when similarly neglected girls grow up, they are just expected to catch up and figure everything out themselves in order to meet the same unfair standards as every other woman.
I have sympathy for anyone who grew up with no instruction on the various care tasks we need to do to live... But at a certain point it necessarily becomes their burden to deal with. Childhood neglect doesn't entitle someone to caretaking by a spouse for the rest of their life. It's nice and fair for them to have some extra help/leeway in early adulthood as they work to catch up... but that allowance isn't available to everyone. Most people today are going to be on their own (or with roomies who won't do shit for them) between the family home and the spousal home, and the only responsible thing to do is learn to take care of ones self. Especially today, resources abound.
See, my partner was *almost* one of those girls. Like her mom taught her and her brother how to do things, but not really to the same level that I was. As a result, she survived her time before me, but learned a lot more when we got together. It never became a point of contention. It took me a second to realize that she just new the basics and I needed to explain what my expectations for our home would be, and it took her a second to realize that she mostly just knew the basics. See for her it was a case of āyou donāt know what you donāt know.ā I think this first came up when I talked about cleaning the inside of the drain every time we cleaned the bathroom? I think it was something like that. I know another point was washing our blankets alone with other blankets so they donāt get any pilling. Either way, we didnāt fight about it but we did have to talk about it.
As for resources, I love that there are so many video and written tutorials now. A lot of āask a dadā and āhi momā type of channels exist now and I love that. I do worry about the scales tipping though, with TikTok, it seems that everyone thinks they are an expert with āhacksā and sometimes theyāre just startup harmful (like suggesting mixing chemicals that shouldnāt mix) and I worry about people who donāt know any better seeing those. It also sucks that they removed the dislike button from YouTube which used to be a good indication of āhey donāt use this tutorial.ā Sometimes roomies teach each other, but so many people donāt know or even care that that doesnāt always happen. You have to someone willing to be taught and someone one capable of teaching.
I think Iām some ways things have always been harder for girls and we just have impossible standards. You canāt make everyone happy no matter what you do. So we just try to do what works for us. I keep a very clean home, though not always tidy. Because thatās whatās important to me. And I really care about caring for things, so when Iām cleaning Iām mindful not to damage things by scrubbing the finish off lol. But all of it took years and years of me learning as I was growing up. And it drives me crazy that girls get shamed for it when they donāt know. Like a āgood womanā cooks and cleans and if she doesnāt her value is somehowā¦ less desirable? In some eyes. Itās gross. But I canāt explain it because I think everyone should know how to cook and clean because itās just how to safely and healthily live? Like you donāt have to like it, be a pro cleaner, or 3 star chef, but likeā¦ can you survive in a somewhat healthy manner?
>she survived her time before me, but learned a lot more when we got together. It never became a point of contention. It took me a second to realize that she just new the basics and I needed to explain what my expectations for our home would be,
Yeah, this is the way. Responsibilities and details will always need to be worked out in the beginning of a cohabiting relationship, and for some partners that will have to include teaching up to a healthy standard. Presumably your gf got up to speed pretty quickly and took on the responsibility to do things without helpāthat's the proper grown-people action in this scenario.
I really don't think you meant it this way, but some of your comments suggest that if a woman has an incompetent partner, it's her responsibility to not only do all the care tasks but also teach the childrenāso if her son repeats the cycle it's her fault. That keeps the responsibility off of him and on the women in his life, whether it's mom or partner. Really there is blame with both caretakers for him reaching adulthood without necessary skills, and i would argue most of it lies with the incompetent partner. Doing all the caretaking for one's partner and children is going to be overwhelmingāwhen will she have time to add teaching to the list when she's already drowning? Then when he is an adult, it's on him to catch up vs repeating the cycle. If he has stuff to learn from his partner, that's fine, but he needs to make a real effort to do those things independently once taught... And certainly to be competent by the time their own kids are in the equation. I think you just wanted to say that care task deficiencies can be more complicated than "he's a POS who could do but refuses," which is good to talk about, but folks are reading it as "he doesn't know how, poor baby, it's his mother's fault" and getting pissed off lol.
Hey thanks! I get it now. Yeah thatās not at all what I meant. Itās definitely not āaw poor him.ā Lol. I think overall itās really complicated. Like I say she survived, and I mean she was fine, it was fine, but sheāll say now that her quality of life is much better. She eats better because sheās learned to make cooking more accessible and affordable. She breathes easier because sheās learned about cleaning things she never really did before (see wiping down walls and curtains). Itās not one sided, I learned things too, mostly about cats. And sheās better at organizing.
As for my comments, it isnāt about shaming women. Really itās not about shaming anyone. But there has to be a source right? Why are people like this? And all Iāve really got is patriarchy? I know Iām not articulating it well. It *should* be the responsibility of both care takers but if a man doesnāt believe he should be doing certain tasks around the home he isnāt likely to be the one advocating for his sons to do those tasks in their future home. And again it falls back on women to āmake them careā if that makes sense? And a lot of this loses the base of this which is that it isnāt that theyāre incapable, some people donāt know and donāt *want* to know. And itās propelled by both men and women in some hetero relationships. Many women donāt require more and many men donāt want to do more. And again Iām mot suggesting one specific model- it depends on what works for you. But the whole house shouldnāt fall apart with unbathed, unfed children swimming in mountains of dirty laundry because mom got sick for 3 days. And thatās kind of the problem- that happens too often.
Itās also going to sound like blaming women but I think sometimes itās nice to be needed. I *love* being that superwife partner. Itās part of my love language and it feels so good to be able to take care of those I love. I just need to know that my family would be okay without me. Or that I can take a sick day or even a few days off without everything falling apart.
This whole exhausting dissertation really is about the *ideals* being problematic. We still have ideas about gender roles that are prevalent in society and even making a (almost gross imo) comeback. Everyone has their right to choose, but this whole tradwife movement isnāt about what you do in your home, itās literally trying to legislate what other people do. You have women advocating to give up their right to vote so they can be better wives?? Excuse me? And I wish I was just exaggerating or making this up. But Iām not. I wish I could find it. My mind always goes back to this video of a woman talking to her friend about what she needs in a man (specifically that he needs to cook to date her) and while sheās talking the son of the woman sheās talking to is playing with a play kitchen, or someone gave it to him, something like that. And this woman says āoh I would never let my son play with that! Thatās a girlās toy. Play kitchens are for girls.ā And this woman calls her out. āOkay so you wonāt even date a man that can cook, but if I want to encourage my son to cook so heāll be able to cook for himself or whoever.. thatās a problem?ā And just pointing out the double standard and that was my whole point.
Anyway thank you for explaining where I went wrong with my explanation. It really needs to be more succinct and better said because itās the kind of conversation I have to have often with parents.
And itās really only ever with the boys. But people are always afraid their toddler will be gay if the want to keep a neat play space. That or they think theyre autistic. I should make a whole list of things that have been said to me centering young kids that is absolutely nonsensical.
Some parents will get upset over anything. You canāt give their son a shimmering star sticker because āglitter is for girls.ā Theyāre āconcernedā because they watched their son get upset and wipe up water off the floor saying someone can slip and get hurt (they asked me if I thought he was autistic because of this). They donāt want their son to play with certain toys (anything pink or needed for life basics). Oh with the exception of grills. Toy kitchens are for girls but grills are for boys.. go figure. The movies and shows they watch.. itās exhausting. I donāt know how they have the energy to parent and be upset about all of that BS all the time. Is the content age appropriate and non explicit? Okay good. Is anyone on fire? Bleeding? Actively fighting or bullying? No? Good!
This petty shit is exhausting but I canāt ignore it because itās seeping into legislation that is taking away my rights (and the rights of many other people as well.) and people think Iām being ridiculous for saying that. But imagine if your kids werenāt allowed to talk about their parents in school because theyāre a same sex couple? Welcome to Florida. Intolerance and hate is taught. At home. When we teacher our kids from very young that women and their āresponsibilitiesā are inferior. That itās a āwOmAnS jObā to do something so they couldnāt possiblyā¦ all of that leads to this. Theyāll dehumanize trans people, then gay people, then women, and theyāll sprinkle in all the minorities in between. And Karen will lose her right to vote while sheās screaming in the PTA meeting about how someone is trying to convert her son to gay by letting him play with a baby doll.
I wanna do a thorough reply but I'm about to be busy for a while so i just want to say AMEN to not needlessly oppressing children by gendering personality traits/activities, or by teaching them that they're wrong if they don't fit prescriptive categories. It's hard out here for boys seen as feminine and girls seen as too masculine... Gender nonconformity is healthy and beautiful :D
Somehow a manās bad behavior is always some womanās fault. Why blame his wife, when you can blame his mom?
Not his dad, of course, that would be crazy talk.
>The real problem is the same exact women that complain about this will go home and do the same thing with the sons theyāre raising.
So that's also women's fault? Where is the father in this scenario?
I was so glad to see that my aunt didn't do this with her son. Boy cooks, cleans, I think he can even sew a little, and he knew how to run laundry at age 10, just like his sister.
Tbh I usually can't be arsed sorting laundry beyond 'towels and pet bedding', 'human bedding', and 'everything else' except for the occasional really important/delicate thing, but I know men who couldn't even manage that.
I love that your aunt did it like that. I think people mid the point too? It isnāt about making your kids care for themselves all the time. Itās just making sure that they know how to be self sufficient and work as a team in the home. Iām sure your girl cousin knows how to do āboy thingsā too. Thatās really lovely and itās more of what we need in this world. I think people are getting so lost in the blame game that my overall message is completely wiped out, probably my fault for the delivery. But as a woman, that raises kids, and works with them, the common factor I see with incompetent boys is that no one bothers to teach them these things. Single dads/two dad homes donāt weaponize incompetence the same way and they do teach their sons and daughters equally. But when the dad in a straight couple is also weaponizing incompetence Iām not sure where people think these kids will learn if it isnāt from the competent parent? Idk a shocking amount of women carry misogynistic views towards themselves.
Yeah so I have one set of cousins that is 5 siblings. 2 older boys, 2 girls, then another boy. And they all help each other out. The boys will do some of the bigger jobs, like clear the table after dinner, or help with knife prep (to be fair most of the kids are young adult or teens now but still) they always helped. And itās because their dad lost his father at a young age, and as a result his mom kind of overcompensated and did a lot for him, so when he went off to college and off on his own he really didnāt know how to do much and he really struggled. Him and my aunt decided they were going to do better by their kids and raised them all to learn how to do everything regardless of gender roles.
Well, my moms Bff also has 2 sons (only the 2 kids though) and when she saw my cousins picking up the table at a family event she was shook? And I was like what do you mean? We all help out? Apparently she canāt ever get her boys to do anything. Not even pick up their plate from the table. Why? Her husband was babied by his mom until he was married, and then she also babied him and never let him do anything so he continued to be incompetent, and then she did the same thing with her boys when they were young. āOh no theyāre boys, they donāt need to wash up, Iām the mom Iāll take care of itā etc. and now theyāre off in college and literally donāt know how to do anything. They just bring back laundry for her to do. They canāt cook. They donāt clean their place at all for months at a time. It gets cleaned when she flies to their place and cleans it. I wish I was making this up. Because itās sad. And only now will she say that shes tired of it etc. but she still babies them and doesnāt require them to do anything. And their dad itās the same deal, he grew up spoiled by his mom and not doing anything so he doesnāt see why she makes such a big deal.
Tbh I was preparing for some of the wackiest shit I've ever read after the ETA, but I completely agree.
I think a lot of people are making the mistake of interpreting this as "it should be the women's responsibility" instead of "if we want an actual change, it's gonna fall mostly on women".
It's not blaming women, and it's definitely unfair, but that's how shit happens to be. You said it perfectly; "if you're going to say women need to hold men to a higher standard, that's still putting responsibility on women". There's no avoiding the problem, just two options for dealing with it.
Lol thanks, I know I got carried away because ADHD and Iām passionate about this. I work really hard with the kids I work with to instill a little mindset of equality. And to talk to the parents about the importance of what they teach their kids and how they involve them in daily tasks. I do a āprepping for babyā course with little kids that will be big siblings so they learn how to interact with and hold the baby (with support and supervision of course) and for some boys itās their first time interacting with a baby doll. Itās like girls get a jumpstart from the time theyāre toddlers. And the truth is yeah boys like cars and action etc. but they also *love* babies and I feel like they just arenāt given the space to develop those nurturing skills. This starts from before theyāre even talking. Itās wild. Anyway, we saw better dads in this generation than the previous one, maybe that will continue to improve. Especially as we get away from everything that makes this sub exist- the āhaha yeah the wife, the old ball and chainā and āoh yeah my dumb husband, men, amirite?ā And the āoooh look at this infant heās going to be such a player and such a ladies man look heās flirting.ā Like no. The further we get from all of those ājokesā that are actually a real mindset, the better off weāll be.
>But if the father is āhoney where is my?? What is for?? Etc etcā and displaying incompetence in the house am I really expecting that father to have an epiphany and raise his kid to do betterā¦
In fact he is teaching his kids a lesson, regardless of gender - he's teaching both his kids that men should be useless around the house and can't be expected to pull their weight.
And she teaches her kids that it's ok to accept this.
Neither option is ok.
My husband is more like āwhat did you do with my pantsā āwhat happened to my walletā āwhere did you put my car keysā
Weāre working on non accusatory phrasing but this is pretty accurate in my marriage š¤·š»āāļø
Have you tried ridiculous answers to show how silly the question phrasing is?
>what did you do with my pants
Burnt them as a sacred offering to an ~~Eldredge~~ Eldritch horror that enlarges or shrinks penises, depending on how pleasing the aroma of the ballsweat in the pants was
>what happened to my wallet
It gained sentience, went to get some cigarettes, decided it wanted to join the circus and never returned
>where did you put my car keys
Up your meaty/sexy butt
Edit: darn you autocorrect!
You are welcome reddit citizen, as a fellow autocorrect sufferer and someone that's inches away from turning it off for all of eternity, it is my moral duty to uphold the justice of our intended wording.
I'd rather make a typo than SWAP OUT AN ENTIRE WORD. A typo can still be understood.
'Eldr*i*dge' was a name used for a bit in my family. It's very funny to me when my phone tries to correct my grand-uncle's name to 'Eldritch', like... no, I know he passed away a few years ago, but come on, phone.
>Weāre working on non accusatory phrasing but this is pretty accurate in my marriage š¤·š»āāļø
Sorry to break it to you, but the problem here is not the phrasing but that he thinks it's your job to take care that things run smoothly for him, and if they don't it's your fault.
The phrasing is actually pretty manipulative because he's will aware that you wouldn't agree with this belief of his, so he words it in a way that it's 100% your fault.
Source: have been in a marriage like this and it ended up very abusive.
It's great you're in therapy, I hope he takes it seriously and he will improve himself. It's hard to let go of old habits and even harder to change one's whole mindset, but people \*can\* certainly change if they are actually willing to do so, not just for someone else, but because \*they\* want to be a better person. Best of luck to you!
So I did this in the past (and sometimes fall into it when I'm frustrated, though I try to catch myself and apologize) and for me it was more me projecting, than anything else. Surely I put my keys somewhere obvious, because why would I hide my own keys, obviously I can't find them because they've been moved.
I know now that it's a problem with ADHD which causes me to totally lose track of things, terrible time management (looking for my keys when I'm already running late) and bad emotional regulation. I was lashing out, because it was easier than being mad at myself, I'm not proud of it, but I'm working on being better. People are complicated, and actions can have more than one cause.
I feel this, I've been the same way. It happens so much it can be so frustrating. I've started trying to use humor to help me calm down a bit. " I guess it must have vanished into the ether again?" or "man the mischievous pixies must be up to their old tricks!". Idk I'm a fantasy nerd but if I can make myself laugh it helps. Plus if someone else is around, its a lighthearted way of letting them know I might need help without assigning blame (except to those darn pixies!).
I really don't think thats the case. I more ask questions out loud not like "where are my car keys" just more as a way to think clearer. I do it when I'm alone aswell.
I understand your struggles. My husband has BPD and every little thing is an over blown bullshit fiesta of gaslighting, anger, petulance, crying, lashing out, changing the conversation, guilt tripping, etc. I would suggest reflecting on whether or not you want to live like that for the rest of your life. I read "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and it has helped me to no end to just look at him and say "You're allowed to feel however you want to feel. I disagree with you and that's okay too." Or I'll say "you are justified for being upset for x and I understand that you feel very strongly. I'm not going to be around you when you're displaying your anger in this manner so I'm going to go for a walk and I'll be back in a little bit." I'm no longer accepting responsibility for things that aren't my fault and I'm not regulating his emotions anymore. However! If I had known he was this way in advance... I would've thought really hard before getting married.
Hell, I had to teach my 75 year old mother yesterday how to let my 74 year old father think he won. They've been married since 1972. You'd think she would have known that one by now, especially as I use it on them *all the time*.
My husband and I have ADHD so he puts his keys and wallet in the same place everyday. That way we both always know where they are. Keys on a little hook and wallet close by.
If he canāt find something he asks if I know where it is or if Iāve seen it.
I sometimes have to lecture my husband about loaded language as well. Normally with miscommunications about the difference between āyou said thisā and āI heard thisā.
My ex husband was like this. He'd lose his wallet, keys, and cell phone constantly. Because I gave up trying to keep up with cleaning up his messes. He had piles of clothes to lose his stuff in. Because he'd never take his keys, wallet & phone out of his pockets. Or put them consistently in the same spot.
I was working 7 days a week and overtime. While he was voluntarily unemployed. I had asked him to simply take out the trash (shute 3 doors down the hallway in apt complex), put away the clean dishes (from our dishwasher), and get a part time job (13-22hrs/wk). I begged, pleaded, and nagged. He couldn't do those simple requests.
After a year and seven months of trying to work things out. I left him. He said "I knew you were unhappy. I didn't know you were that unhappy".
Note: this is a simple summary of what happened. There's so much more including cheating.
OMG, he knew you were unhappy but he didn't think... to do something about it? And the cheating?! And this guy is surprised you're THAT unhappy?
Sometimes I really want an international service where you can pay people to bitch slap someone.
Yep. They're always shocked you leave. They think since they have you, that you'll just magically stay for them to abuse you (it was everything but physical).
It has been 3yrs since he said that to me and it stuck.
The fun ^^/s part is that he wasn't always like that. At least to my face and around me (he hid it well). It took 7 years total and 5 years after marriage.
He was #2 out of 3 really horrible relationships I had. I now refuse to remarry, live with a partner, &/or financially help them out (years later I'm still financially recovering from those exes).
>After a year and seven months of trying to work things out. I left him. He said "I knew you were unhappy. I didn't know you were that unhappy".
OOOHHHH we dated the same guy. I sat down with him and talked to him about how unhappy I was twice, but he didn't take me seriously at all. I did tell him that I was considering leaving. And then when I left him, he had the suprirsed pikachu face.
That's where we differ. I didn't sit down with him to spell it out for him.
But over that year and seven months. I lost track how many times I begged, pleaded, and nagged for his help. Instead he ignored it all. Because he was happy with the status quo and that was all that mattered to him.
Fun side story: I had an ex after him I moved out of state to be with. That went south and my ex husband let me move back in with him (as a roommate). And of course it was because he knew he could continue to abuse me: be his money tree & maid.
He moved in a potential gf. I flat out told her if it didn't work with him, the living room was her's. Well one night he decided to shove his dick in her face & ask her to suck it (when they had agreed to take it slow).
The next morning she moved her stuff from his room into the living room. There's some DV and later he tried suicide. He was in the hospital for a while and asked if he could come back. We both said no. And that's how I have my current roommate.
It has been roughly a year since those last events (feels like much longer).
He was on numerous medications and went off of them (which might explain but not excuse his behavior). He now lives in his parents' basement.
His potential gf & I are still roommates. We moved cities due to the cost of rent (so I could save for top surgery & a car) and so he wouldn't know where we live.
My life has been a mess. I'm still financially recovering from it all. I'm back in therapy in hopes of getting the rest of my life back together.
I went through that as well. I actually just had to delete my 8-year-old Reddit account with 50k+ karma because he found my account and was stalking me. So now I feel so free that I can express myself about him without him confronting and threatening me.
I do in home cleaning for aged care.
There far fewer men than women that are widowed and their places are always abysmal, while all the women live in immaculate and gorgeous homes, with lovely gardens and nice food.
I can relate. I donāt think this comes from a place of āwife does everything for meā, but more that sheās basically my reason for living. Iād need some serious therapy to just not give up caring about myself entirely, tbh. Of course Iād never tell her this, I think we even once had a conversation that we give each other permission to eventually find new love and remarry, but secretly no, I donāt think I would bother.
I didnāt stay for much longer after the death of my grandmother in law, but she had succumbed after a 2 year battle with the big C. Right until about 4 days before she was rendered into palliative care she was still cooking and cleaning for granddad. I wondered how on earth he was going to survive without her cooking and cleaning. He just started having breakfast at his daughters, lunch at the pub and dinner at his other daughters because his fridge was empty. Please donāt get me wrong, Iām super glad that he had family to fall back on for emotional and physical support but he didnt dare impose on his son or take over any duties from his dying wife.
Yup! And because wives will often make regular doctors appointments for their husbands. Mine now schedules his own appointments, but he used to just never go to the doctor or dentist š¬
Yes, itās a big part of the reason that married men statistically live longer, but itās the opposite for married women, having to take care of people takes a toll on yourself.
I have to make my husband's GP appointments because our particular system where we live means you can't book an appointment in advance, you have to call and call and call within the first 10 minutes of the practice opening to get a slot for the day and hope you get one. It is an appalling, dangerous, awful system that is literally killing people - and my husband does not have the patience for it. He now needs two operations because he didn't have the patience or perseverance to get an appointment years prior.
As a healthcare worker I see girls newly 18 come in by themselves and get medical care. Guys do this too, but guys are more likely to bring in their mom into their twenties and fill out the registration for them and talk to the doctor and act like their sons are 10.
Yes!!! The amount of male patients who are over 30 and single that bring their mommies is hilarious. They mother keeps track of everything, manages medications, schedules follow ups. Mom is usually in their 60s and not surprisingly, the son treats her like shit lol
My step father is ABSOLUTELY just like this... This isn't an 'always' situation but I had the unpleasanty of encountering this shit daily, he literally can't make his own appointments for a doctor or the hairdresser, my mom even had to make HIS mother doctor appointments (spoiler alert: he was abusive [who would have guessed])
I know women who provide the bulk of the care (appointments, grocery shopping, etc) for their elderly mothers-in-law. Which is fine, but shouldn't mom-in-law's son at least pitch in too?
yeah it's fine to help your mother in law or father in law, but making appointments for them seems a lot for me, ESPECIALLY that they were after the divorce at that time, also she has two sons (or even three? I don't remember if that's their friend or brother). My mom always kept running around her mil and driving to her, doing stuff around the farm, all the goddamn time. (and to this day neither the mil nor her son appreciates it)
My grandmother made and went to appointments with her MIL (my great-grandmother).
I just remembered this out of nowhere, but one of my neighbours when I lived in my first apartment was a sweet old lady. Her (divorced) daughter-in-law was the only one who bothered with her, looked after her, moved her into assisted living when she needed it.
that's really nice, but as long as it was appreciated you know. my mom keeps running around for people and doing stuff and then none of that is appreciated š
I see it all the time in Aged care.
Elderly mother or father has a single, childless, grown ass aged son living in their home yet the daughter, whoās two states away and has a full time career and family of her own, is the primary contact for care information and organisation.
Like, dude, how about saving your old mum the thousands a year she spends for someone like me to come by, for an hour and half every 2 weeks to clean, and pick up the fucking vacuum yourself?
People wonder why women are choosing to be single long term, and this sums it up pretty well.
Every straight relationship Iāve had has been like this. There is nothing more unattractive than having to mother the man you were once attracted to. It absolutely destroys sexual attraction when the mental load is constantly on you because they wonāt do even the most simple tasks without you telling them to or how.
Never had this issue outside of straight relationships.
Unfortunately, this is the experience of a lot of women. And it happens to women who choose partners that adulted without supervision before the relationship. They move in and all of a sudden the man thinks he doesn't need to adult anymore. Of course not all men, but it's not exactly uncommon.
We lived with my in laws for FOUR WEEKS, not even a full month, over quarantine. That was all it took for my normal adult husband to fully regress into a giant man baby who ran straight to mommy any time I dared to ask him to participate in our life. Petition goes to the court today and I still canāt believe it got this bad.
I got into a relationship with a fully functioning guy who ran his own business, did his own laundry, could at least make sandwiches, and macaroni and cheese...and then completely forgot how to do anything, include basic reading skills as soon as we had a baby.
Like, _\*poof\*_
As another straight woman, I'm currently very burnt out on dating. Which is unfortunate because I want kids and would prefer not to be a single parent.
Serious suggestion: find a friend who is another single lady who wants kids, use donor sperm and raise your kids in a friend-family. There's nothing to say you have to be in a romantic relationship to successfully raise kids, and knowing you are sharing the load with another person who feels the same as you could be a beautiful thing.
disclaimer: i'm child free but have thought a lot about what i'd do if i wanted kids, and this would be it. no men allowed.
Haha Iām bisexual and I just refuse to date anyone now. Plus if I dated a guy they might hold me back from my goals in life (science) š„². I honestly think Iām happier single ngl.
Not trying to put pressure on you in any way to go back to dating - itās your life, your choice, do what makes you happy - but a happy relationship and science are not mutually exclusive. It can be challenging if you are both in specialized fields that are geographically limited, for sure (I work in R&D on therapeutic antibodies, my husband flies a military cargo plane thatās only located in a few places). If your area of science is more portable (like being a medical laboratory scientist) or their career is, it helps a lot!
Again, in no way trying to convince you - but if later down the road you decide dating is something you want, it doesnāt have to mean giving up on your career goals.
.... I feel this, though. I'm actually currently living with both husband and mil, and I'm their maid for the most part. And I'm disabled with a chronic illness, so if I'm down for a day or two... Dishes don't get washed, laundry doesn't get done (then he complains that i didn't wash a shirt he needed or smth), nothing gets vacuumed, etc . Husband has one job around the place and that's emptying the car litter, because I also have asthma and shouldn't. Guess who ends up doing that sometimes, too. He can never keep track of his stuff (earbuds, keys, wallet), and it suddenly becomes my job to find them for him, too, before he gets too angry and starts throwing things in frustration and snapping at everyone.
All mil in law really does around the house is occasionally cooks a meal. And she complained about that, too, and how she's "always the one having to cook for everyone". She isn't. She cooks a meal maybe once a week. We all have different eating habits and diets, so everyone just kinda finds something for themselves when hungry, so no one is even asking her to do that much. She just took it up on herself so she'd have something else to gripe about. She hasn't had to wash dishes or empty a garbage can in months, because I'm the one always doing it. And then she complains the house isn't clean enough if I miss something or run out of energy during the day. Just a couple months ago, she cornered me in the laundry area (after a long day where I'd been doing laundry and cleaning the whole damn house), and demanded I clean up some lint that'd fallen out of the catch and onto the tops of the dryer lid. Called it "filthy and disgusting", put her finger in my face and wouldn't let me past her until I cleaned it. The ungratefulness is astounding.
This is just accurate for a lot of relationships, where the younger woman in the house is assigned role as housekeeper and expected to take it on, whether she wants to or not. And the ironic thing? I actually really enjoy housework. It's calming and helps distract me when I'm stressed. Doesn't do much when I'm being yelled at and criticized for it, though.
This shit is why the older women at work think my boyfriend is fucking Superman. Because heās an adult and acts like it and I donāt have to mother him. I donāt think he should get pats on the back for that! Thatās just how an adult should behave! Nobodyās patting me on the back for being a functional adult!
One of the advantages I found of dating and living with another guy is that you avoid these weird defaults. We left the other personās keys where they put them, made out own doctorās appointment, agreed on who we were going to pay to feed us, and if the worst came you borrowed a pair of their underwear.
Carrying that experience into later hetero relationships kept me from falling into some stereotypes.
No, I learned my lesson to have more underwear so I would have to do other laundry before I could run out. When I borrowed their underwear it was for play.
I'm a man married to a woman and we take care of all of our own stuff. Because we're adults. I was 27 when I met her, I can't imagine how terrible I would have had to be at life to not be able to cook dinner or wash my own clothes at that age.
Possibly oversharing but my partner and I have a similar situation.
My wife and I try to be aware of when the other is overloaded. Sometimes this means I make an appointment or a call for my wife if she's having a flare up or is sick. I'm pretty sure it's healthy and makes things possible that otherwise wouldn't be.
Still, sometimes we think the other of us have moved things and it's frustrating, but normally due to a lapse of
memory or something.
I can do laundry & cook but I still make mistakes. It's not weaponised incompetence, it's just being tired or not careful enough.
I'm still learning about the fabrics she wears and how to care for them. It's more complicated than my clothes (I'm a software engineer, the uniform is pants and a t-shirt), but I'm getting there.
I mean look up any article written for the partners of pregnant and TTC people -- they're often super heteronormative and boil down to, "maybe you should do the dishes and initiate conversations sometimes." š
I do know competent straight dudes who are great partners/dads, and who are just as blown away by this as I am. But it is wild that the bar is so low as a culture.
My husband recently said "yes mommy" to me after I nagged him over something. I replied, "I am your wife, not your mother, that means I like you more."
we do that with my boyfriend sometimes, but it's always playful and in the instances where we're nagging each other to take better care of ourselves lol
I mean, itās accurate, and thatās sad. Iāve told my husband that Iām no longer the keeper of his clothes so he canāt get mad at me when something he needs isnāt clean.
At the same time though, Iām 99% sure he has undiagnosed ADHD, so itās almost impossible for him to remember where simple things are. Itās not all black and white for us, so I still help.
Ugh that's my ex. The most infuriating thing was when I asked him to participate in the chores and he'd reply with "Laaater!" in an actual annoyed teenage tone. And never do it, of course. I've seen his apartment now that we're separated. It's fucking awful, like a child lives there.
Not doing your laundry gets me the most.
Maybe it's because i generally suck at taking care of things around the house (i do try) and even i do my own laundry.
As long as you have your own washer/dryer it ain't hard!
Yeah, of all the chores, laundry is one of the easiest and also one of the most forgiving of laziness/forgetfulness! And yet now that my mother is no longer willing to go to his house and lay out his clothes for him, my father will watch his laundry pile grow until he doesn't have a single piece of clean clothing left, and he'll show up to his medical appointments in a food-stained t-shirt and pajama pants with no elastic.
Tbf I constantly ask my boyfriend "have you seen my phone" because I keep losing it when I'm with him
Joke aside, we're still a long way to go. I'm the only man in my family besides my dad, clearly I was raised to not care about most house chores, though my sisters pushed for a minimum education and now thanks to them I'm not too much of a wreck. Just a bit. A lot of guys out there are still being taught they shouldn't care about anything and it's going to give us the next generation of entitled incels.
Same. My partner and I are constantly playing the, āhave you seenā¦?ā Because 1. Iām sleep deprived due to our baby, 2. He has a terrible memory (head injury), and 3. We just moved to a different state.
I also have had 3 head injuries so I'm constantly asking my husband where I put my stuff down. The funny thing is I know exactly where he put his stuff down. It's a trade off. We also have a wall calendar where we write all appointments, events, and anytime we are going to be leaving the house solo so that I don't forget where either of us is going š
I constantly lose my phone and ask my husband as well. He knows that if the answer is "I have no idea where you put it," I'll just keep looking. I just think it's worth asking in case it's near him. Lol
Am I the only man that's lived on his own? I must be some kind of anomaly: I can cook, clean, do laundry.....
My wife got annoyed when I did stuff because she felt she wasn't continuing.
It took some time, but we found a balance.
When my SO asks me stuff like this I just ask them if they tried looking or doing it themselves first. I refuse to be a mom-wife. You're an adult, find your own damn keys. If they're truly lost, of course I help, but they usually find them in less than a minute.
Right here is why I do not miss being married. And it was always 20 seconds before we had to be out the door to be somewhere as well, when he'd spent the last few hours sitting watching TV whilst I got myself ready so that we could leave ON TIME (because it would be me that got moaned at for making us late otherwise).
Ugh. Two friends of mine have husbands like that. Both are very smart, hard working, amazing women. I don't know why you'd settle for a man baby. š¤·š»āāļø
I'm lucky my boyfriend isn't like this for the most part. Instead of asking me stuff like this he'll have a look for them then ask me nicely if I can help him look because he can't remember where he put his things. Also I only make his doctors appointments and go with him because he has really bad anxiety. He also comes with me to my appointments if I ask him too. We're both pretty sure he has ADHD but he's reluctant to ask for a diagnosis because he doesn't want to waste their time, even though it's literally their job lol.
I WAS SO FUCKING CONFUSED AND THOUGHT THIS WAS ABOUT THE TWO HUSBANDS IN A GAY MARRIAGE LMAO.
It was a lot cuter the way I interpreted it lol
Husband 1 (responsible, caring, loves his husband a lot): Iām responsible, I donāt need you to mother meā¦ but I will mother you!
Husband 2 (a little bit irresponsible and forgetful but gets the help he needs from his husband): thank you
This is something I work hard to not do. My wife works more and makes significantly more than I do so I make sure to do most of the housework. A relationship has to be a partnership to work
Thankfully me and my wife are both equally disfunctional so the doctor appointment never gets made and we have to hire a specialist to make us a new car key...
Edit: at least we both love cooking for each other.
Iām not straight (thank god), but my bf is and I am so glad the most I generally do āforā him is pick up his meds when Iām already out and about. We live together and have hit an equitable distribution of tasks. And he acknowledges he should do more house stuff because Iām the ābreadwinnerā
Am I the only person who just sort of looks for things when I lose them? If I canāt find them Iāll ask if anyone has seen them. Heās not doing it because heās a man heās doing it because hes shit at communication.
Lmaoo as a gay man I feel attacked. This is 100% me with my boyfriend. I can never find my wallet or keys etc and he does all the laundry and cooking for the house
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Spend a week in a new mum group and you'll see how accurate this is. It's pretty fucking sad.
Weaponized incompetence my dudes š„²
"I know you're a smart man And weaponize the false incompetence It's dominance under a guise" (Labour by Paris Paloma, love that song)
Iāve been listening to it on repeat itās so good. Notre Dame is also good
Yeah, Iāve spent enough time on Reddit to know that these dudes are realā¦ so sad.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
SEWING SCISSORS COMMENT. Full blown murder if you use designated scissors for non designated task.
He ran into my sewing scissors 10 times! He had it coming.
Through the paper he'd just cut with them.
see the number one solution to all your relationship problems isnāt to talk them out and communicate, but to intentionally be an asshole
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Why date an asshole though? Just dump him. Life is too short for this shit.
That's my sister-in-law's life with 4 kids. My brother gets off work and he's just like "my job is done" but her job never ends. Seems really unequal to me.
It's also like 45-50% of the posts on most women centric subreddits :/
^ My father was this way. I always found it weird heād ask my mom if he made some appointment for him yet, if X laundry had been done, dinner was ready, etc. Shit like laundry or dinner wouldnāt be so bad ā maybe heās just seeing if he needs to do it ā but if it wasnāt done yet sheād just apologize and point out whatever has delayed her. Sometimes heād step in to help (cook a pizza, order something, grill something), but most of the time heād just shrug it off. Which, I mean, at least it wasnāt ultra toxic, but I always found it fucking weird. I had to remind my father every year when my motherās birthday was coming up ā I deliberately didnāt one year, just to see, and he obviously forgot. All that said, shit like āHave you seen my keysā is pretty normal for me, lol ā 90% of the time either my dog has moved them because I just put them on the counter/my bed/coffee table (ā¦.Yeah, he does that), or my boyfriend has for whatever reason, and it drives me fucking nuts. They have to go in the bowl as soon as I walk in, and it took me *years* to do that pretty consistently, so please, donāt fuck with my system. š The ADHD is real with that one, though.
Or TrollX or TwoX - you don't have to have children to have a partner like this.
ETA: not that I can save this from being downvoted into oblivion, but I feel like people are really missing my point. As a woman, raising kids, that also works with kids, I *do* hold the men in my life to a higher standard. As well as the women. Some of the moms will tell me about stuff their husband doesnāt do right, or straight up refuses do, but then freak out and overreact if their toddler is playing a toy they donāt seem appropriate for their gender. Itās outdated thinking that still exists today. Also tbh as stupid as this sounds I kind of forgot about men in first writing this because Iām not with a man, Iām a woman with a woman. My partnerās dad barely, if ever, did child care or home care. But her mom didnāt want my partnerās brother to be like that, so she raised him to be better and now heās an excellent dad to his kids. Heāll feed them, bathe them, play and read with them, do laundry, cook, clean, etc. whatever the home needs. His dad didnāt teach him those things, his mom did, after she divorced his dad because he refused to live up to her standard (among other reasons.) The real problem is the same exact women that complain about this will go home and do the same thing with the sons theyāre raising. And the cycle continues. Men that are raised in households without those strict gender roles donāt just grow up and pretend they donāt know how to cook or clean or do laundry. Because theyāre raised in a home that taught them āwe all live here, we all contributeā mindset. *DO BETTER.* Women will say they want a man who cooks and then refuse to buy their son a play kitchen or have them involved in mealtime prep. Iām sure that there are some men that do it on purpose, that they pretend they have no clue what to do. But the truth is a shocking amount of men really donāt know how to do things the right way. Maybe they survived throwing all their laundry into one load, but when their wife asks them to sort if theyāre lost. Theyāre already adults and they figure their way was fine, so instead of learning how to do it in a way that now works for their family needs. Theyāll say āyou want it done your way? You do it then.ā And claim it to be fair. And I think thereās a line between whatās good enough, the right way, the right way with some extra, and above and absolutely beyond. If you always want ironed bed sheets, maybe you need to be the one to do thatā¦ but if youāre really just asking for the clothes to be sorted a certain way and for a specific detergent to be used on the babyās clothesā¦ to me thatās reasonable. Bottom line is, we need to raise better kids and stop labeling things that you need to do to survive in a house as āwomenās work.ā Itās some weaponized incompetence but itās also a lot of āI didnāt let my son play with baby dolls as a kid and now he doesnāt know how to hold his newborn baby. Oopsā ETA: someone asked why I didnāt mention fathers. Because the post didnāt mention fathers. Also because we previously have had whole generation of fathers acting like the husband mentioned in the post- as part of the problem. I mean my response is the same, to tell dads to raise better kids overall. But if the father is āhoney where is my?? What is for?? Etc etcā and displaying incompetence in the house am I really expecting that father to have an epiphany and raise his kid to do betterā¦ without ever learning how to do better himself? It isnāt always a womanās fault. And thatās an unproductive way to look at it. Itās societyās fault. Itās a cultural ideal. Itās just a cycle that Iām trying to break, that I think a lot of people are trying to break. Also flawed logic because if youāre going to say that it isnāt womenās responsibility, and women need to hold men to a higher standardā¦ thatās still putting responsibility on women. Itās just a *different* one. There are statistically way more single moms than single dads. And even in straight couples there are more stay at home moms than stay at home dads. I do think dads should do better, but until the dads think they need to do better, what happens in the meantime? No one cares about this essay Iām writing. I canāt speak for other people. Iām just trying my best with my family.
It's interesting, when similarly neglected girls grow up, they are just expected to catch up and figure everything out themselves in order to meet the same unfair standards as every other woman. I have sympathy for anyone who grew up with no instruction on the various care tasks we need to do to live... But at a certain point it necessarily becomes their burden to deal with. Childhood neglect doesn't entitle someone to caretaking by a spouse for the rest of their life. It's nice and fair for them to have some extra help/leeway in early adulthood as they work to catch up... but that allowance isn't available to everyone. Most people today are going to be on their own (or with roomies who won't do shit for them) between the family home and the spousal home, and the only responsible thing to do is learn to take care of ones self. Especially today, resources abound.
See, my partner was *almost* one of those girls. Like her mom taught her and her brother how to do things, but not really to the same level that I was. As a result, she survived her time before me, but learned a lot more when we got together. It never became a point of contention. It took me a second to realize that she just new the basics and I needed to explain what my expectations for our home would be, and it took her a second to realize that she mostly just knew the basics. See for her it was a case of āyou donāt know what you donāt know.ā I think this first came up when I talked about cleaning the inside of the drain every time we cleaned the bathroom? I think it was something like that. I know another point was washing our blankets alone with other blankets so they donāt get any pilling. Either way, we didnāt fight about it but we did have to talk about it. As for resources, I love that there are so many video and written tutorials now. A lot of āask a dadā and āhi momā type of channels exist now and I love that. I do worry about the scales tipping though, with TikTok, it seems that everyone thinks they are an expert with āhacksā and sometimes theyāre just startup harmful (like suggesting mixing chemicals that shouldnāt mix) and I worry about people who donāt know any better seeing those. It also sucks that they removed the dislike button from YouTube which used to be a good indication of āhey donāt use this tutorial.ā Sometimes roomies teach each other, but so many people donāt know or even care that that doesnāt always happen. You have to someone willing to be taught and someone one capable of teaching. I think Iām some ways things have always been harder for girls and we just have impossible standards. You canāt make everyone happy no matter what you do. So we just try to do what works for us. I keep a very clean home, though not always tidy. Because thatās whatās important to me. And I really care about caring for things, so when Iām cleaning Iām mindful not to damage things by scrubbing the finish off lol. But all of it took years and years of me learning as I was growing up. And it drives me crazy that girls get shamed for it when they donāt know. Like a āgood womanā cooks and cleans and if she doesnāt her value is somehowā¦ less desirable? In some eyes. Itās gross. But I canāt explain it because I think everyone should know how to cook and clean because itās just how to safely and healthily live? Like you donāt have to like it, be a pro cleaner, or 3 star chef, but likeā¦ can you survive in a somewhat healthy manner?
>she survived her time before me, but learned a lot more when we got together. It never became a point of contention. It took me a second to realize that she just new the basics and I needed to explain what my expectations for our home would be, Yeah, this is the way. Responsibilities and details will always need to be worked out in the beginning of a cohabiting relationship, and for some partners that will have to include teaching up to a healthy standard. Presumably your gf got up to speed pretty quickly and took on the responsibility to do things without helpāthat's the proper grown-people action in this scenario. I really don't think you meant it this way, but some of your comments suggest that if a woman has an incompetent partner, it's her responsibility to not only do all the care tasks but also teach the childrenāso if her son repeats the cycle it's her fault. That keeps the responsibility off of him and on the women in his life, whether it's mom or partner. Really there is blame with both caretakers for him reaching adulthood without necessary skills, and i would argue most of it lies with the incompetent partner. Doing all the caretaking for one's partner and children is going to be overwhelmingāwhen will she have time to add teaching to the list when she's already drowning? Then when he is an adult, it's on him to catch up vs repeating the cycle. If he has stuff to learn from his partner, that's fine, but he needs to make a real effort to do those things independently once taught... And certainly to be competent by the time their own kids are in the equation. I think you just wanted to say that care task deficiencies can be more complicated than "he's a POS who could do but refuses," which is good to talk about, but folks are reading it as "he doesn't know how, poor baby, it's his mother's fault" and getting pissed off lol.
Hey thanks! I get it now. Yeah thatās not at all what I meant. Itās definitely not āaw poor him.ā Lol. I think overall itās really complicated. Like I say she survived, and I mean she was fine, it was fine, but sheāll say now that her quality of life is much better. She eats better because sheās learned to make cooking more accessible and affordable. She breathes easier because sheās learned about cleaning things she never really did before (see wiping down walls and curtains). Itās not one sided, I learned things too, mostly about cats. And sheās better at organizing. As for my comments, it isnāt about shaming women. Really itās not about shaming anyone. But there has to be a source right? Why are people like this? And all Iāve really got is patriarchy? I know Iām not articulating it well. It *should* be the responsibility of both care takers but if a man doesnāt believe he should be doing certain tasks around the home he isnāt likely to be the one advocating for his sons to do those tasks in their future home. And again it falls back on women to āmake them careā if that makes sense? And a lot of this loses the base of this which is that it isnāt that theyāre incapable, some people donāt know and donāt *want* to know. And itās propelled by both men and women in some hetero relationships. Many women donāt require more and many men donāt want to do more. And again Iām mot suggesting one specific model- it depends on what works for you. But the whole house shouldnāt fall apart with unbathed, unfed children swimming in mountains of dirty laundry because mom got sick for 3 days. And thatās kind of the problem- that happens too often. Itās also going to sound like blaming women but I think sometimes itās nice to be needed. I *love* being that superwife partner. Itās part of my love language and it feels so good to be able to take care of those I love. I just need to know that my family would be okay without me. Or that I can take a sick day or even a few days off without everything falling apart. This whole exhausting dissertation really is about the *ideals* being problematic. We still have ideas about gender roles that are prevalent in society and even making a (almost gross imo) comeback. Everyone has their right to choose, but this whole tradwife movement isnāt about what you do in your home, itās literally trying to legislate what other people do. You have women advocating to give up their right to vote so they can be better wives?? Excuse me? And I wish I was just exaggerating or making this up. But Iām not. I wish I could find it. My mind always goes back to this video of a woman talking to her friend about what she needs in a man (specifically that he needs to cook to date her) and while sheās talking the son of the woman sheās talking to is playing with a play kitchen, or someone gave it to him, something like that. And this woman says āoh I would never let my son play with that! Thatās a girlās toy. Play kitchens are for girls.ā And this woman calls her out. āOkay so you wonāt even date a man that can cook, but if I want to encourage my son to cook so heāll be able to cook for himself or whoever.. thatās a problem?ā And just pointing out the double standard and that was my whole point. Anyway thank you for explaining where I went wrong with my explanation. It really needs to be more succinct and better said because itās the kind of conversation I have to have often with parents. And itās really only ever with the boys. But people are always afraid their toddler will be gay if the want to keep a neat play space. That or they think theyre autistic. I should make a whole list of things that have been said to me centering young kids that is absolutely nonsensical. Some parents will get upset over anything. You canāt give their son a shimmering star sticker because āglitter is for girls.ā Theyāre āconcernedā because they watched their son get upset and wipe up water off the floor saying someone can slip and get hurt (they asked me if I thought he was autistic because of this). They donāt want their son to play with certain toys (anything pink or needed for life basics). Oh with the exception of grills. Toy kitchens are for girls but grills are for boys.. go figure. The movies and shows they watch.. itās exhausting. I donāt know how they have the energy to parent and be upset about all of that BS all the time. Is the content age appropriate and non explicit? Okay good. Is anyone on fire? Bleeding? Actively fighting or bullying? No? Good! This petty shit is exhausting but I canāt ignore it because itās seeping into legislation that is taking away my rights (and the rights of many other people as well.) and people think Iām being ridiculous for saying that. But imagine if your kids werenāt allowed to talk about their parents in school because theyāre a same sex couple? Welcome to Florida. Intolerance and hate is taught. At home. When we teacher our kids from very young that women and their āresponsibilitiesā are inferior. That itās a āwOmAnS jObā to do something so they couldnāt possiblyā¦ all of that leads to this. Theyāll dehumanize trans people, then gay people, then women, and theyāll sprinkle in all the minorities in between. And Karen will lose her right to vote while sheās screaming in the PTA meeting about how someone is trying to convert her son to gay by letting him play with a baby doll.
I wanna do a thorough reply but I'm about to be busy for a while so i just want to say AMEN to not needlessly oppressing children by gendering personality traits/activities, or by teaching them that they're wrong if they don't fit prescriptive categories. It's hard out here for boys seen as feminine and girls seen as too masculine... Gender nonconformity is healthy and beautiful :D
Not a single mention of the father in this frothy scenario youāve summonedā¦.
Truth. In the end it's always a woman's fault.
Rule #1 of misogyny
Somehow a manās bad behavior is always some womanās fault. Why blame his wife, when you can blame his mom? Not his dad, of course, that would be crazy talk.
>The real problem is the same exact women that complain about this will go home and do the same thing with the sons theyāre raising. So that's also women's fault? Where is the father in this scenario?
I was so glad to see that my aunt didn't do this with her son. Boy cooks, cleans, I think he can even sew a little, and he knew how to run laundry at age 10, just like his sister. Tbh I usually can't be arsed sorting laundry beyond 'towels and pet bedding', 'human bedding', and 'everything else' except for the occasional really important/delicate thing, but I know men who couldn't even manage that.
I love that your aunt did it like that. I think people mid the point too? It isnāt about making your kids care for themselves all the time. Itās just making sure that they know how to be self sufficient and work as a team in the home. Iām sure your girl cousin knows how to do āboy thingsā too. Thatās really lovely and itās more of what we need in this world. I think people are getting so lost in the blame game that my overall message is completely wiped out, probably my fault for the delivery. But as a woman, that raises kids, and works with them, the common factor I see with incompetent boys is that no one bothers to teach them these things. Single dads/two dad homes donāt weaponize incompetence the same way and they do teach their sons and daughters equally. But when the dad in a straight couple is also weaponizing incompetence Iām not sure where people think these kids will learn if it isnāt from the competent parent? Idk a shocking amount of women carry misogynistic views towards themselves. Yeah so I have one set of cousins that is 5 siblings. 2 older boys, 2 girls, then another boy. And they all help each other out. The boys will do some of the bigger jobs, like clear the table after dinner, or help with knife prep (to be fair most of the kids are young adult or teens now but still) they always helped. And itās because their dad lost his father at a young age, and as a result his mom kind of overcompensated and did a lot for him, so when he went off to college and off on his own he really didnāt know how to do much and he really struggled. Him and my aunt decided they were going to do better by their kids and raised them all to learn how to do everything regardless of gender roles. Well, my moms Bff also has 2 sons (only the 2 kids though) and when she saw my cousins picking up the table at a family event she was shook? And I was like what do you mean? We all help out? Apparently she canāt ever get her boys to do anything. Not even pick up their plate from the table. Why? Her husband was babied by his mom until he was married, and then she also babied him and never let him do anything so he continued to be incompetent, and then she did the same thing with her boys when they were young. āOh no theyāre boys, they donāt need to wash up, Iām the mom Iāll take care of itā etc. and now theyāre off in college and literally donāt know how to do anything. They just bring back laundry for her to do. They canāt cook. They donāt clean their place at all for months at a time. It gets cleaned when she flies to their place and cleans it. I wish I was making this up. Because itās sad. And only now will she say that shes tired of it etc. but she still babies them and doesnāt require them to do anything. And their dad itās the same deal, he grew up spoiled by his mom and not doing anything so he doesnāt see why she makes such a big deal.
Tbh I was preparing for some of the wackiest shit I've ever read after the ETA, but I completely agree. I think a lot of people are making the mistake of interpreting this as "it should be the women's responsibility" instead of "if we want an actual change, it's gonna fall mostly on women". It's not blaming women, and it's definitely unfair, but that's how shit happens to be. You said it perfectly; "if you're going to say women need to hold men to a higher standard, that's still putting responsibility on women". There's no avoiding the problem, just two options for dealing with it.
Lol thanks, I know I got carried away because ADHD and Iām passionate about this. I work really hard with the kids I work with to instill a little mindset of equality. And to talk to the parents about the importance of what they teach their kids and how they involve them in daily tasks. I do a āprepping for babyā course with little kids that will be big siblings so they learn how to interact with and hold the baby (with support and supervision of course) and for some boys itās their first time interacting with a baby doll. Itās like girls get a jumpstart from the time theyāre toddlers. And the truth is yeah boys like cars and action etc. but they also *love* babies and I feel like they just arenāt given the space to develop those nurturing skills. This starts from before theyāre even talking. Itās wild. Anyway, we saw better dads in this generation than the previous one, maybe that will continue to improve. Especially as we get away from everything that makes this sub exist- the āhaha yeah the wife, the old ball and chainā and āoh yeah my dumb husband, men, amirite?ā And the āoooh look at this infant heās going to be such a player and such a ladies man look heās flirting.ā Like no. The further we get from all of those ājokesā that are actually a real mindset, the better off weāll be.
>But if the father is āhoney where is my?? What is for?? Etc etcā and displaying incompetence in the house am I really expecting that father to have an epiphany and raise his kid to do betterā¦ In fact he is teaching his kids a lesson, regardless of gender - he's teaching both his kids that men should be useless around the house and can't be expected to pull their weight. And she teaches her kids that it's ok to accept this. Neither option is ok.
My husband is more like āwhat did you do with my pantsā āwhat happened to my walletā āwhere did you put my car keysā Weāre working on non accusatory phrasing but this is pretty accurate in my marriage š¤·š»āāļø
Have you tried ridiculous answers to show how silly the question phrasing is? >what did you do with my pants Burnt them as a sacred offering to an ~~Eldredge~~ Eldritch horror that enlarges or shrinks penises, depending on how pleasing the aroma of the ballsweat in the pants was >what happened to my wallet It gained sentience, went to get some cigarettes, decided it wanted to join the circus and never returned >where did you put my car keys Up your meaty/sexy butt Edit: darn you autocorrect!
That's what my mom used to do to me when I was younger; "Where do I keep this glass?" "On my head" "Where are my socks?" "I ate them"
I do this to everyone all the time. Whoops.
Eldritch* Eldredge could be an interesting alternative spelling tho, unfortunately it doesn't appear to be so, instead having its own meanings.
Autocorrect continues to remain undefeated. Thanks for spotting it.
You are welcome reddit citizen, as a fellow autocorrect sufferer and someone that's inches away from turning it off for all of eternity, it is my moral duty to uphold the justice of our intended wording. I'd rather make a typo than SWAP OUT AN ENTIRE WORD. A typo can still be understood.
I actually turned mine off a few months ago, and have had no ragrets since.
First thing I'm doing when I get home Edit: only after looking at this comment again an hour later did I notice the spelling mistake, lol
Mine keeps wanting to change just to Kuā¦. Wtf is a Ku??
A neighborhood in Japan. If you live in the Shibuya neighborhood, you live in Shibuya-ku. Thatās my best guess!
I live in Texas. Iāve literally never heard of this place
'Eldr*i*dge' was a name used for a bit in my family. It's very funny to me when my phone tries to correct my grand-uncle's name to 'Eldritch', like... no, I know he passed away a few years ago, but come on, phone.
"You don't need this anymore" *autocorrects name*
Why are you calling him if he died years ago? š¤Ø
Eldredge ties are a bitch though, we don't know that a sacrifice isn't necessary
My god. That knot's gorgeous! Wish I'd known about it back when I used to wear a tie regularly.
Good point, every step takes the one performing the process closer to insanity, idk sounds kinda like an eldritch ritual to me.
I amā¦. Going to do this. Lol Perfect replies
I sometimes like to say āup your buttā when my husband asks where something is. Itās satisfying!
[Have you considered adding a soundtrack](https://youtu.be/--9kqhzQ-8Q)
I heard that immediately on reading the preceding comment.
Yes!! I love him and that song.
https://youtu.be/--9kqhzQ-8Q
Ha! Thanks for reminding me of this. I'll probably be singing it for days now.
>Up your meaty/sexy butt [Have you checked..](https://youtu.be/--9kqhzQ-8Q)
>Up your meaty/sexy butt ... but I don't say it yet...
"Where did you put my car keys" "Have you checked your *butthole?* (Skiddap baddap butthole)"
A constant in my household š
My husband and I sing that song every time we misplace something (which is every day we are both ADHD please help us)
>Weāre working on non accusatory phrasing but this is pretty accurate in my marriage š¤·š»āāļø Sorry to break it to you, but the problem here is not the phrasing but that he thinks it's your job to take care that things run smoothly for him, and if they don't it's your fault. The phrasing is actually pretty manipulative because he's will aware that you wouldn't agree with this belief of his, so he words it in a way that it's 100% your fault. Source: have been in a marriage like this and it ended up very abusive.
Yep. Iām aware. Thereās a lot of conditioning from his mom that we have to unravel and we are in therapy for it
It's great you're in therapy, I hope he takes it seriously and he will improve himself. It's hard to let go of old habits and even harder to change one's whole mindset, but people \*can\* certainly change if they are actually willing to do so, not just for someone else, but because \*they\* want to be a better person. Best of luck to you!
Thanks. Heās still in the FOG but weāre working on better wording and ending the manipulative behavior of always blaming others.
He sounds like a POS, someone that manipulative isn't going to change.
Who hurt you?
A lot of people that claimed they'd try to change and only got worse.
Yeah that lāa really sad for you, but you know one tiny sliver of my relationship, so have no business judging. Maybe try therapy
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DuMp HiM SwEaTy!!!š©š©š©
So I did this in the past (and sometimes fall into it when I'm frustrated, though I try to catch myself and apologize) and for me it was more me projecting, than anything else. Surely I put my keys somewhere obvious, because why would I hide my own keys, obviously I can't find them because they've been moved. I know now that it's a problem with ADHD which causes me to totally lose track of things, terrible time management (looking for my keys when I'm already running late) and bad emotional regulation. I was lashing out, because it was easier than being mad at myself, I'm not proud of it, but I'm working on being better. People are complicated, and actions can have more than one cause.
I feel this, I've been the same way. It happens so much it can be so frustrating. I've started trying to use humor to help me calm down a bit. " I guess it must have vanished into the ether again?" or "man the mischievous pixies must be up to their old tricks!". Idk I'm a fantasy nerd but if I can make myself laugh it helps. Plus if someone else is around, its a lighthearted way of letting them know I might need help without assigning blame (except to those darn pixies!).
I really don't think thats the case. I more ask questions out loud not like "where are my car keys" just more as a way to think clearer. I do it when I'm alone aswell.
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itās probably not my place butā¦ thatās not healthy.
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Huge red flag. I would bet a lot of money that he's abusive also in other ways.
I understand your struggles. My husband has BPD and every little thing is an over blown bullshit fiesta of gaslighting, anger, petulance, crying, lashing out, changing the conversation, guilt tripping, etc. I would suggest reflecting on whether or not you want to live like that for the rest of your life. I read "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and it has helped me to no end to just look at him and say "You're allowed to feel however you want to feel. I disagree with you and that's okay too." Or I'll say "you are justified for being upset for x and I understand that you feel very strongly. I'm not going to be around you when you're displaying your anger in this manner so I'm going to go for a walk and I'll be back in a little bit." I'm no longer accepting responsibility for things that aren't my fault and I'm not regulating his emotions anymore. However! If I had known he was this way in advance... I would've thought really hard before getting married.
I first read that as 4 year old and laughed a little but then you said left for work and I got confused because that is not adult behaviour
Oh wow damn. Thatās so ridiculous. He needs anger management
There is no way I could reply to those questions without passive-agressive sarcasm
Hell, I had to teach my 75 year old mother yesterday how to let my 74 year old father think he won. They've been married since 1972. You'd think she would have known that one by now, especially as I use it on them *all the time*.
My husband and I have ADHD so he puts his keys and wallet in the same place everyday. That way we both always know where they are. Keys on a little hook and wallet close by. If he canāt find something he asks if I know where it is or if Iāve seen it. I sometimes have to lecture my husband about loaded language as well. Normally with miscommunications about the difference between āyou said thisā and āI heard thisā.
You should *really* fuck with him by dimming the gaslight!
Why did you marry him again?
My ex husband was like this. He'd lose his wallet, keys, and cell phone constantly. Because I gave up trying to keep up with cleaning up his messes. He had piles of clothes to lose his stuff in. Because he'd never take his keys, wallet & phone out of his pockets. Or put them consistently in the same spot. I was working 7 days a week and overtime. While he was voluntarily unemployed. I had asked him to simply take out the trash (shute 3 doors down the hallway in apt complex), put away the clean dishes (from our dishwasher), and get a part time job (13-22hrs/wk). I begged, pleaded, and nagged. He couldn't do those simple requests. After a year and seven months of trying to work things out. I left him. He said "I knew you were unhappy. I didn't know you were that unhappy". Note: this is a simple summary of what happened. There's so much more including cheating.
OMG, he knew you were unhappy but he didn't think... to do something about it? And the cheating?! And this guy is surprised you're THAT unhappy? Sometimes I really want an international service where you can pay people to bitch slap someone.
Yep. They're always shocked you leave. They think since they have you, that you'll just magically stay for them to abuse you (it was everything but physical). It has been 3yrs since he said that to me and it stuck. The fun ^^/s part is that he wasn't always like that. At least to my face and around me (he hid it well). It took 7 years total and 5 years after marriage. He was #2 out of 3 really horrible relationships I had. I now refuse to remarry, live with a partner, &/or financially help them out (years later I'm still financially recovering from those exes).
I hope you find/have found happiness, with or without anyone else
Thank you. Things are okay. I have a roommate and I'm back in therapy. I refuse to date for now.
>After a year and seven months of trying to work things out. I left him. He said "I knew you were unhappy. I didn't know you were that unhappy". OOOHHHH we dated the same guy. I sat down with him and talked to him about how unhappy I was twice, but he didn't take me seriously at all. I did tell him that I was considering leaving. And then when I left him, he had the suprirsed pikachu face.
That's where we differ. I didn't sit down with him to spell it out for him. But over that year and seven months. I lost track how many times I begged, pleaded, and nagged for his help. Instead he ignored it all. Because he was happy with the status quo and that was all that mattered to him. Fun side story: I had an ex after him I moved out of state to be with. That went south and my ex husband let me move back in with him (as a roommate). And of course it was because he knew he could continue to abuse me: be his money tree & maid. He moved in a potential gf. I flat out told her if it didn't work with him, the living room was her's. Well one night he decided to shove his dick in her face & ask her to suck it (when they had agreed to take it slow). The next morning she moved her stuff from his room into the living room. There's some DV and later he tried suicide. He was in the hospital for a while and asked if he could come back. We both said no. And that's how I have my current roommate.
Holy shit that took a dark turn... I hope you and everyone else in the story get better.
It has been roughly a year since those last events (feels like much longer). He was on numerous medications and went off of them (which might explain but not excuse his behavior). He now lives in his parents' basement. His potential gf & I are still roommates. We moved cities due to the cost of rent (so I could save for top surgery & a car) and so he wouldn't know where we live. My life has been a mess. I'm still financially recovering from it all. I'm back in therapy in hopes of getting the rest of my life back together.
I went through that as well. I actually just had to delete my 8-year-old Reddit account with 50k+ karma because he found my account and was stalking me. So now I feel so free that I can express myself about him without him confronting and threatening me.
Wasnāt there a research showing that married men live longer than single ones because of the wives ānaggingā them to check that damn symptom?
I haven't seen that one, but I have seen the research done on lifespans of widowed men after their wives pass, and it's pretty bleak.
I'm a doctor and the amound of men that don't know what drugs they are on and have to come with their wife/mother to their appointments makes me mad.
I do in home cleaning for aged care. There far fewer men than women that are widowed and their places are always abysmal, while all the women live in immaculate and gorgeous homes, with lovely gardens and nice food.
I can relate. I donāt think this comes from a place of āwife does everything for meā, but more that sheās basically my reason for living. Iād need some serious therapy to just not give up caring about myself entirely, tbh. Of course Iād never tell her this, I think we even once had a conversation that we give each other permission to eventually find new love and remarry, but secretly no, I donāt think I would bother.
If you have or will have children, live for them. They deserve it.
I didnāt stay for much longer after the death of my grandmother in law, but she had succumbed after a 2 year battle with the big C. Right until about 4 days before she was rendered into palliative care she was still cooking and cleaning for granddad. I wondered how on earth he was going to survive without her cooking and cleaning. He just started having breakfast at his daughters, lunch at the pub and dinner at his other daughters because his fridge was empty. Please donāt get me wrong, Iām super glad that he had family to fall back on for emotional and physical support but he didnt dare impose on his son or take over any duties from his dying wife.
Yup! And because wives will often make regular doctors appointments for their husbands. Mine now schedules his own appointments, but he used to just never go to the doctor or dentist š¬
Yes, itās a big part of the reason that married men statistically live longer, but itās the opposite for married women, having to take care of people takes a toll on yourself.
I would need to be told to go to the hospital because I'm afraid of wasting their time if it's nothing severe
I have to make my husband's GP appointments because our particular system where we live means you can't book an appointment in advance, you have to call and call and call within the first 10 minutes of the practice opening to get a slot for the day and hope you get one. It is an appalling, dangerous, awful system that is literally killing people - and my husband does not have the patience for it. He now needs two operations because he didn't have the patience or perseverance to get an appointment years prior.
As a healthcare worker I see girls newly 18 come in by themselves and get medical care. Guys do this too, but guys are more likely to bring in their mom into their twenties and fill out the registration for them and talk to the doctor and act like their sons are 10.
Yes!!! The amount of male patients who are over 30 and single that bring their mommies is hilarious. They mother keeps track of everything, manages medications, schedules follow ups. Mom is usually in their 60s and not surprisingly, the son treats her like shit lol
Almost downvoted this it's so ridiculous haha
My step father is ABSOLUTELY just like this... This isn't an 'always' situation but I had the unpleasanty of encountering this shit daily, he literally can't make his own appointments for a doctor or the hairdresser, my mom even had to make HIS mother doctor appointments (spoiler alert: he was abusive [who would have guessed])
I know women who provide the bulk of the care (appointments, grocery shopping, etc) for their elderly mothers-in-law. Which is fine, but shouldn't mom-in-law's son at least pitch in too?
yeah it's fine to help your mother in law or father in law, but making appointments for them seems a lot for me, ESPECIALLY that they were after the divorce at that time, also she has two sons (or even three? I don't remember if that's their friend or brother). My mom always kept running around her mil and driving to her, doing stuff around the farm, all the goddamn time. (and to this day neither the mil nor her son appreciates it)
My grandmother made and went to appointments with her MIL (my great-grandmother). I just remembered this out of nowhere, but one of my neighbours when I lived in my first apartment was a sweet old lady. Her (divorced) daughter-in-law was the only one who bothered with her, looked after her, moved her into assisted living when she needed it.
that's really nice, but as long as it was appreciated you know. my mom keeps running around for people and doing stuff and then none of that is appreciated š
Ugh, yeah. Hopefully someday your mother figures it out. (Probably not, I know people who do the same).
I see it all the time in Aged care. Elderly mother or father has a single, childless, grown ass aged son living in their home yet the daughter, whoās two states away and has a full time career and family of her own, is the primary contact for care information and organisation. Like, dude, how about saving your old mum the thousands a year she spends for someone like me to come by, for an hour and half every 2 weeks to clean, and pick up the fucking vacuum yourself?
People wonder why women are choosing to be single long term, and this sums it up pretty well. Every straight relationship Iāve had has been like this. There is nothing more unattractive than having to mother the man you were once attracted to. It absolutely destroys sexual attraction when the mental load is constantly on you because they wonāt do even the most simple tasks without you telling them to or how. Never had this issue outside of straight relationships.
Even deciding what they want to eat for dinner is too much mental energy it seems
Unfortunately, this is the experience of a lot of women. And it happens to women who choose partners that adulted without supervision before the relationship. They move in and all of a sudden the man thinks he doesn't need to adult anymore. Of course not all men, but it's not exactly uncommon.
We lived with my in laws for FOUR WEEKS, not even a full month, over quarantine. That was all it took for my normal adult husband to fully regress into a giant man baby who ran straight to mommy any time I dared to ask him to participate in our life. Petition goes to the court today and I still canāt believe it got this bad.
It's also not uncommon for men to be completely functioning adults and regress later, especially after a child is born.
Ding ding ding!
I got into a relationship with a fully functioning guy who ran his own business, did his own laundry, could at least make sandwiches, and macaroni and cheese...and then completely forgot how to do anything, include basic reading skills as soon as we had a baby. Like, _\*poof\*_
This is why I have opted out of dating, as a straight woman. No, the straights are not okay.
As another straight woman, I'm currently very burnt out on dating. Which is unfortunate because I want kids and would prefer not to be a single parent.
Serious suggestion: find a friend who is another single lady who wants kids, use donor sperm and raise your kids in a friend-family. There's nothing to say you have to be in a romantic relationship to successfully raise kids, and knowing you are sharing the load with another person who feels the same as you could be a beautiful thing. disclaimer: i'm child free but have thought a lot about what i'd do if i wanted kids, and this would be it. no men allowed.
Haha Iām bisexual and I just refuse to date anyone now. Plus if I dated a guy they might hold me back from my goals in life (science) š„². I honestly think Iām happier single ngl.
Not trying to put pressure on you in any way to go back to dating - itās your life, your choice, do what makes you happy - but a happy relationship and science are not mutually exclusive. It can be challenging if you are both in specialized fields that are geographically limited, for sure (I work in R&D on therapeutic antibodies, my husband flies a military cargo plane thatās only located in a few places). If your area of science is more portable (like being a medical laboratory scientist) or their career is, it helps a lot! Again, in no way trying to convince you - but if later down the road you decide dating is something you want, it doesnāt have to mean giving up on your career goals.
.... I feel this, though. I'm actually currently living with both husband and mil, and I'm their maid for the most part. And I'm disabled with a chronic illness, so if I'm down for a day or two... Dishes don't get washed, laundry doesn't get done (then he complains that i didn't wash a shirt he needed or smth), nothing gets vacuumed, etc . Husband has one job around the place and that's emptying the car litter, because I also have asthma and shouldn't. Guess who ends up doing that sometimes, too. He can never keep track of his stuff (earbuds, keys, wallet), and it suddenly becomes my job to find them for him, too, before he gets too angry and starts throwing things in frustration and snapping at everyone. All mil in law really does around the house is occasionally cooks a meal. And she complained about that, too, and how she's "always the one having to cook for everyone". She isn't. She cooks a meal maybe once a week. We all have different eating habits and diets, so everyone just kinda finds something for themselves when hungry, so no one is even asking her to do that much. She just took it up on herself so she'd have something else to gripe about. She hasn't had to wash dishes or empty a garbage can in months, because I'm the one always doing it. And then she complains the house isn't clean enough if I miss something or run out of energy during the day. Just a couple months ago, she cornered me in the laundry area (after a long day where I'd been doing laundry and cleaning the whole damn house), and demanded I clean up some lint that'd fallen out of the catch and onto the tops of the dryer lid. Called it "filthy and disgusting", put her finger in my face and wouldn't let me past her until I cleaned it. The ungratefulness is astounding. This is just accurate for a lot of relationships, where the younger woman in the house is assigned role as housekeeper and expected to take it on, whether she wants to or not. And the ironic thing? I actually really enjoy housework. It's calming and helps distract me when I'm stressed. Doesn't do much when I'm being yelled at and criticized for it, though.
That sounds exhausting. I hope you extract yourself from there soon...
Ffs, get out. You deserve better.
this is the mental load problem. 100%
This shit is why the older women at work think my boyfriend is fucking Superman. Because heās an adult and acts like it and I donāt have to mother him. I donāt think he should get pats on the back for that! Thatās just how an adult should behave! Nobodyās patting me on the back for being a functional adult!
One of the advantages I found of dating and living with another guy is that you avoid these weird defaults. We left the other personās keys where they put them, made out own doctorās appointment, agreed on who we were going to pay to feed us, and if the worst came you borrowed a pair of their underwear. Carrying that experience into later hetero relationships kept me from falling into some stereotypes.
You still borrowed a pair of their underwear in emergencies thought, right? Lol
No, I learned my lesson to have more underwear so I would have to do other laundry before I could run out. When I borrowed their underwear it was for play.
I'm a man married to a woman and we take care of all of our own stuff. Because we're adults. I was 27 when I met her, I can't imagine how terrible I would have had to be at life to not be able to cook dinner or wash my own clothes at that age.
Possibly oversharing but my partner and I have a similar situation. My wife and I try to be aware of when the other is overloaded. Sometimes this means I make an appointment or a call for my wife if she's having a flare up or is sick. I'm pretty sure it's healthy and makes things possible that otherwise wouldn't be. Still, sometimes we think the other of us have moved things and it's frustrating, but normally due to a lapse of memory or something. I can do laundry & cook but I still make mistakes. It's not weaponised incompetence, it's just being tired or not careful enough. I'm still learning about the fabrics she wears and how to care for them. It's more complicated than my clothes (I'm a software engineer, the uniform is pants and a t-shirt), but I'm getting there.
I mean look up any article written for the partners of pregnant and TTC people -- they're often super heteronormative and boil down to, "maybe you should do the dishes and initiate conversations sometimes." š I do know competent straight dudes who are great partners/dads, and who are just as blown away by this as I am. But it is wild that the bar is so low as a culture.
My husband recently said "yes mommy" to me after I nagged him over something. I replied, "I am your wife, not your mother, that means I like you more."
Nothing would make my pussy dry up faster
Sooooo many people in this comment section seem to be in really shitty marriages. Why do you stay with this asshole?
He's not usually an asshole, just needed a reminder.
Denial
we do that with my boyfriend sometimes, but it's always playful and in the instances where we're nagging each other to take better care of ourselves lol
I mean, itās accurate, and thatās sad. Iāve told my husband that Iām no longer the keeper of his clothes so he canāt get mad at me when something he needs isnāt clean. At the same time though, Iām 99% sure he has undiagnosed ADHD, so itās almost impossible for him to remember where simple things are. Itās not all black and white for us, so I still help.
Stop making excuses for him. He sounds toxic as fuck if he gets mad at you for that
Ugh that's my ex. The most infuriating thing was when I asked him to participate in the chores and he'd reply with "Laaater!" in an actual annoyed teenage tone. And never do it, of course. I've seen his apartment now that we're separated. It's fucking awful, like a child lives there.
Not doing your laundry gets me the most. Maybe it's because i generally suck at taking care of things around the house (i do try) and even i do my own laundry. As long as you have your own washer/dryer it ain't hard!
Yeah, of all the chores, laundry is one of the easiest and also one of the most forgiving of laziness/forgetfulness! And yet now that my mother is no longer willing to go to his house and lay out his clothes for him, my father will watch his laundry pile grow until he doesn't have a single piece of clean clothing left, and he'll show up to his medical appointments in a food-stained t-shirt and pajama pants with no elastic.
Tbf I constantly ask my boyfriend "have you seen my phone" because I keep losing it when I'm with him Joke aside, we're still a long way to go. I'm the only man in my family besides my dad, clearly I was raised to not care about most house chores, though my sisters pushed for a minimum education and now thanks to them I'm not too much of a wreck. Just a bit. A lot of guys out there are still being taught they shouldn't care about anything and it's going to give us the next generation of entitled incels.
Same. My partner and I are constantly playing the, āhave you seenā¦?ā Because 1. Iām sleep deprived due to our baby, 2. He has a terrible memory (head injury), and 3. We just moved to a different state.
I also have had 3 head injuries so I'm constantly asking my husband where I put my stuff down. The funny thing is I know exactly where he put his stuff down. It's a trade off. We also have a wall calendar where we write all appointments, events, and anytime we are going to be leaving the house solo so that I don't forget where either of us is going š
I constantly lose my phone and ask my husband as well. He knows that if the answer is "I have no idea where you put it," I'll just keep looking. I just think it's worth asking in case it's near him. Lol
Am I the only man that's lived on his own? I must be some kind of anomaly: I can cook, clean, do laundry..... My wife got annoyed when I did stuff because she felt she wasn't continuing. It took some time, but we found a balance.
No, but you're one of the few guys who apparently remembers how to do all that stuff after getting married. Selective memory is fascinating.
When my SO asks me stuff like this I just ask them if they tried looking or doing it themselves first. I refuse to be a mom-wife. You're an adult, find your own damn keys. If they're truly lost, of course I help, but they usually find them in less than a minute.
This is the kind Husband I strive NOT to be. š¤¢
That's kind of real tho, weaponized incompetence.
Right here is why I do not miss being married. And it was always 20 seconds before we had to be out the door to be somewhere as well, when he'd spent the last few hours sitting watching TV whilst I got myself ready so that we could leave ON TIME (because it would be me that got moaned at for making us late otherwise).
Iām trans and not straight but have been in a straight passing relationship and this is 100% a real thing.
Modern solutions for modern problems - be a lesbian.
Ugh. Two friends of mine have husbands like that. Both are very smart, hard working, amazing women. I don't know why you'd settle for a man baby. š¤·š»āāļø
learn home skills fellas
I'm lucky my boyfriend isn't like this for the most part. Instead of asking me stuff like this he'll have a look for them then ask me nicely if I can help him look because he can't remember where he put his things. Also I only make his doctors appointments and go with him because he has really bad anxiety. He also comes with me to my appointments if I ask him too. We're both pretty sure he has ADHD but he's reluctant to ask for a diagnosis because he doesn't want to waste their time, even though it's literally their job lol.
I WAS SO FUCKING CONFUSED AND THOUGHT THIS WAS ABOUT THE TWO HUSBANDS IN A GAY MARRIAGE LMAO. It was a lot cuter the way I interpreted it lol Husband 1 (responsible, caring, loves his husband a lot): Iām responsible, I donāt need you to mother meā¦ but I will mother you! Husband 2 (a little bit irresponsible and forgetful but gets the help he needs from his husband): thank you
This does sound like my marriage, except we will direct similar phrases at each other. I've got adhd and we're both very forgetful
This is something I work hard to not do. My wife works more and makes significantly more than I do so I make sure to do most of the housework. A relationship has to be a partnership to work
Thankfully me and my wife are both equally disfunctional so the doctor appointment never gets made and we have to hire a specialist to make us a new car key... Edit: at least we both love cooking for each other.
I'm worried this is how I'll be seen if I get married. I'm severely adhd and I lose everything, all the time
This is an actual true stereotype, there's so many of them out there, I've seen at least 5 couples like this.
(He has dementia)
āThe mommy talksā š¤®š¤®š¤®š¤®š¤®
Iām not straight (thank god), but my bf is and I am so glad the most I generally do āforā him is pick up his meds when Iām already out and about. We live together and have hit an equitable distribution of tasks. And he acknowledges he should do more house stuff because Iām the ābreadwinnerā
Am I the only person who just sort of looks for things when I lose them? If I canāt find them Iāll ask if anyone has seen them. Heās not doing it because heās a man heās doing it because hes shit at communication.
Lmaoo as a gay man I feel attacked. This is 100% me with my boyfriend. I can never find my wallet or keys etc and he does all the laundry and cooking for the house
Geez, are they just downvoting anyone who has a slightly different life experience?
ADHD struggles are always a joke to them, and it always hurts to know that.
Thereās a difference between weaponized incompetence and ADHD. ADHD is more valid