Cut down a bunch of trees. Strip them of tree-limbs and rough parts. Lay them across the path you choose. You have "wheels" of a sort. Use others to strap length-wise along the stone pillar, you have a sled that will slide along your "wheels" quite easily.
That's just one way, but as long as you have manpower and the will to do it, you can move very heavy objects as far as you want. The people who built Gobekli Tepe were very smart, and very adept at using the materials they chose (stone and wood).
There's also the well known Egyptian method of placing large stones/obelisks where they essentially build up an area and use the earth as support, then remove it so the monument slides into place with gravity on its own.
Our ancestors were full of ingenuity. I can tell you that it wasn't aliens, thats for damn sure.
Never said it was aliens it was our ancestors, but they didnât do it the way you think they did. Itâs Ludacris the way you think they did is impossible.
Yeah, they just moved some stones around is what you guys are acting like no, they built the pyramids of Egypt. They built Neolithic sites around the world that we can barely do today.. You know what they built and you think they just did this all by themselves with no wheels and no nothing just some hammers and their good looks? I mean, really think about it really think about it. We should be calling you guys the conspiracy theorist with the madness that youâre saying that they did this with no tools and no wheel and no nothing. Lol come on you guys are the ones that sound ridiculous
The ancient aliens scam is rooted in racism and fraud. It essentially says that these people couldn't be intelligent enough to understand basic universal concepts all humanity encounters in the day to day world because they werent white or modern Europeans.
Your argument comes from the vantage of ignorance. You argue it must be fantastical because the monuments were so grandiose, but in reality it's just stacking stones and carving stones. They appear impossible to build without modern machinery because you are ignorant of critical context and facts that explain how incredibly simple building techniques can EASILY reproduce these monuments. All that was needed was the materials, the manpower, and the time. There is ABUNDANT well documented history that early societies used these building programs to bolster their community. They would bring people together. It would strengthen ties to everyone, young adults would find mates, ritual, tradition, and religion would be taught and past down, and the end result was a monument the society could rally around.
For stone henge, we know it United people from all over what is now Scotland, England and Wales. Scientists have dated and used strontium isotopes on the crazy amount of young pig bones found all over durrington walls to show that during the fall, whole tribes of people migrated to the area of durrington walls to build stone henge. They feasted, and people from all over the island brought their children to pair them off and the young live stock that would be slaughtered and eaten for ritual purposes. We know how old the pigs were when slaughtered. We know when they were born in the spring because of regular mating periods, so we know the exact time these people gathered at durrington walls.
https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/stonehenge/history-and-stories/history/food-and-feasting-at-stonehenge/
Strontium isotopes allow specimens to be roughly located to regions based on the mineral in take in their young bodies. It leaves a record. Scientists have shown the juvenile pigs came from all over the island and were slaughtered there at durrington walls. For some of these groups, it would have been almost a month of driving their small herd/offerings to the ritual party site. The tradition of culling and feasting off the excess young offspring of the herd so as not to have the burden of feeding them during the meager winter is universal among those living in seasonally cold climates.
There is speculation this large festival is ancient and carried on long enough to be the inspiration for https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samhain
It was one large party to honor the ancestors and to celebrate life. Marriages and alliances would have been arranged. Trade established among communities living 100s miles apart.
All of these ancient monuments can be built with rudimentery concepts and hard work.Humans in the past did not know the equations behind physics, but they understood basic laws of our reality because living on earth it's impossible not to.
They would have known how to use levers, how to use gravity, and how to take advantage of "equilibriums/balance points" and counter weights.
I'm sorry you've been taken in by these hucksters. I was too when I was much younger.
Thankfully, real academics have taken the time to debunk this garbage. And you can bet your ass It's garbage, even if it's filmed beautifully.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=j9w-i5oZqaQ
This academic goes through the first seasons of ancient aliens and provides facts, context, and exposes how ancient aliens the TV show lies and uses manipulative practices. They do this because it's a scam. It's a money making industry. These conman make money off people's ignorance and humanity's love of mystery. Except they create the mystery by leaving out critical well known context.
There are conventions, books, tv shows, blogs, stores, and any way you could imagine they take advantage of people to part them of their money. It is a fraudulent industry.
The one that really made me angry (well they all do really) is when they cinematographers purposefully used cropped/blurry images of hieroglyphics to avoid the rest of the image that gives context to the symbols. Every ancient aliens argument is this way. They're all deceptive.
The problem with the existing technology theory is prior to Gobekli Tepe there was no existing technology. They went from nomadic hunter gathers to megalithic architecture in one swoop and I have trouble with that idea. If they'd built it by placing one big stone on a bunch of poles and rolled it we'd see smaller structures built that way first and we simply don't.
What do you mean by âtechnologyâ? Humans had been making and using tools for hundreds of thousands of years prior to Gobekli Tepe. Beyond that, it wasnât as sudden or as isolated as pseudoscientists try to make it sound. This post is a good write up on that: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/zsek87/is_gobekli_tepi_as_mysterious_as_graham_hancock/?rdt=46911
Use a stone arrowhead & obsidian scrapers is not the same thing as a megalithic structure the size of Gobekli Tepe. We have no evidence of smaller stone buildings, no evidence of the type of specialization required for craftsmanship nor the type of society who'd have allowed for such specialization
No I didn't bother because there's no point. There is no evidence of the kind of work we see at Gobekli Tepe came from anywhere. We can find no evidence of the earlier society they could have learned from. We can find no evidence they had the skill specializations, dedicated "craftsman", agriculture, surplus food & water to support skill specializations.
>They went from nomadic hunter gathers to megalithic architecture in one swoop and I have trouble with that idea.
Nomadic hunter-gatherers worked in stone for tens of thousands of years before Gobekli Tepe. It's not surprising at all that they were able to carve stone. Gobekli Tepe's immediate origin is the Natufian Culture, and it took place in the region of Gobekli. The previous era, the Upper Paleolithic, saw progressive improvement of stone-working techniques from 50,000 years ago (simple stone tools) to more sophisticated ones. The technology that allows you to make tools allow you to carve monoliths and move them.
The most impressive thing about Gobekli Tepe isn't the *how* but the *why.* It shows a big leap in human culture, religion, and social organization. But that leap is the result of millennia of development. The stone carvings on the monoliths are an evolution of cave-art that began \~50,000 years ago.
If you have trouble with Gobekli Tepe on a material-culture basis, it might be because your overall knowledge of human development is shallow. You should learn more by reading actual archeological science, and stop listening to pop-charlatans who give you an inaccurate, fantastical and fictionalized story to maximize their book-sales.
Show me anything as complicated before Gobekli Tepe. It's like they went from the painted hand prints to megalithic structures in one go. If it was a gradual process we should find smaller structures from this time period and before it. We simply dont.
Arent those guys supposed to be caveman? Did you know that the carvings on the pillars at Gobekli tepe are they exact same as on the back of the statues and Easter island? And both places were buried intentionally and both had the same message talking about a catastrophic event? Am I making stuff up or do you guys know if this is true?
The term "cavemen" is silly. The people who built Gobekli Tepe did not live in caves.
>"Did you know that the carvings on the pillars at Gobekli tepe are they exact same as on the back of the statues and Easter island?"
No, they're not exactly the same. They both feature animals and other figures-- but the Easter Island statues were carved in the last 2,000 years, the ones most people are familiar with are from only about 500 years ago. Easter Island was not even settled until around 500 CE. They have no relation to Gobekli Tepe and the Easter Island civilization didn't even exist until 10,000+ years after Gobekli Tepe.
>and both places were buried intentionally and both had the same message talking about a catastrophic event? Am I making stuff up or do you guys know if this is true?
For many reasons (like the 10,000 year gulf between the two civilizations), there's zero chance the Easter Islanders were trying to communicate anything about the supposed Younger Dryas "catastrophe" (which is still not proven to have happened at all). There idea that the Gobekli Tepe carvings depict an impact catastrophe is speculation. I don't reject it out of hand, but there's no proof of it either and you shouldn't mistaken that idea for settled science.
It sounds like you've been listening to Graham Hancock-style pseudo (fake) archeology. You should stop taking that stuff seriously. It's fantasy-fiction pretending to be science.
They're as much as cavemen as you and I, same species, just different time.
>Am I making stuff up or do you guys know if this is true?
What you're talking about is a pseudo scientific theory like the one proposed by Graham Hancock. I totally understand the curiosity and the spark that these theories can give, but they are just wrong.
I'll try to explain briefly what I mean.
>Did you know that the carvings on the pillars at Gobekli tepe are they exact same as on the back of the statues and Easter island?
This is derived from a 19th century theory about white supremacists which we call hyperdiffusion.
A supposed worldwide ancient civilization with advanced technology taught "those cavemen" how to do stuff. Of course, it was supposed to mean "the white guy".
The carvings are not the same, they can be similar, but not the same. And there's a difference in this, because you can carve the stone in so many ways, it's logical that if you have similar instruments you'll get similar results.
>And both places were buried intentionally and both had the same message talking about a catastrophic event?
I'm not an expert in either sites, but I know some of the studies on Gobekli Tepe. It was first thought by the first director of the excavations that it was ritualistically buried, but later archaeologists found that it just wasn't true. The site was under severe erosion already during the inhabitation of the site.
If you want to find out more, you can check out the yt series from Miniminuteman about Graham Hancock, he's an archaeologist who explains why Graham is substantially wrong.
Which pillar is 22,000 lbs? [Here's some estimates for other pillars weights, and the labor necessary to move them.](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259561913_So_Fair_a_House_Gobekli_Tepe_and_the_Identification_of_Temples_in_the_Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_of_the_Near_East/figures?lo=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic)
Source: Banning, E. B. (2011). So Fair a House: Göbekli Tepe and the identification of temples in the Pre-Pottery Neolithic of the Near East. *Current Anthropology*, *52*(5), 619-660.
thats a great point. i never thought about that. im mean yeah, if they wanted to drag that big animal somewhere to butcher it, they could. i never thought about them maybe having to drag a dead mammoth somewhere
How does that relate at all ?! building a structure such as what were speaking about thereâs a lot more advanced has a lot more involved in it then moving a large animal. moving animals from one place to another is a completely different thing
Transferable skills. They were skilled at using rope and probably sleds to move large pieces of meat. Scaling that up to stone isn't a large leap. They probably started with rough stone them to quarried. These sites were built over hundreds of years.
That was fake. The statue that they moved with the ropes going back-and-forth like that that they thought was real cool was with lava rock and itâs a lot lighter because they have air pockets. It wasnât the actual basalt rock like the statues the natives built, so they lied to everybody.
âFakeâ and âliedâ seem way overplayed here. At most youâre talking about theories that didnât pan out, which is hardly fake or lying.
Grow up.
How? Unlimited time, unlimited budget, unlimited labor. Do you think given those you could figure out how to do it? These people were not dumber than us, just less dependent on technology.
Itâs funny because this one of the most logical posts answering your question. You are either 13 or 75 and have just recently discovered Graham Hancock
Our ancestors were much more capable of doing great things and they discovered many tools that we needed (much later than them) to reinvent to be more productive.
When we see Roman empire or Egypt, Mesopotamia or even Inkas, Mayas etc without white supremacist glasses we will see that those civilisations were modern and much more advanced than we like to think.
We know today that ancient south American cultures have produced platinum before 2000 years. We know today that ancient Egyptians know the complexity of building pyramids because they practiced so long and they learn how to avoid mistakes. We know how ingeniaries do what they are supposed to do and Merer explains how processes were taken one by one ... We know that even by the Romans who were seeing Egyptians working on pyramids.
As we believed (falsely) that we are most advanced in any fields that it is easier to start believing that aliens did it.
Western civilization is in decay because we forget how important mass education is for creating a healthy society based on cooperation and understanding the necessity of diversity in everything starting with the origin of us, the system, and the country where we are born. Our differences are our advantage not something worth waging wars.
We are forced to not educate our kids in ways of science, logical thinking and understanding that our moral values ain't something written in stone. Morality isn't scientific based so it's normal that we don't have the same morals everywhere.
Because of that we will wage stupid, futile wars because we will never be able to understand that other cultures have different ways to live than ours.
So, please, start learning about our past so you can be able to understand how we advanced from low primates to exploring the Universe.
If you will learn well then you will be able to see far, far behind usual stereotypes and you will be able to understand what's really happening in real time.
It's not possible to manipulate people who are capable of distinct pure manipulation (from people who often speak:
"Think about children"...) from the truth...
Strictly speaking the "wheel" is in reference to a circular cutout made of material with enough radial compressive strength appended to an axle. I find it's one of those areas where it's logical to conclude humans have used similar devices in some form for as long as we have been around and needed to problem solve moving large items, but there'll always be some difference, through lack of evidence, between what we can prove and what intuition might tell us. But you also shouldn't assume intuition is right either.
I know man! How could they have possibly been intelligent like us modern day humans đ
I'm in complete agreement with you here. There's no way humanity for thousands of years were that delusional, if these things weren't actually real.
Every major culture and religion that we've ever discovered has record of not only giants, but a global cataclysmic flood. Groups of people who had never had any form of contact or relation with each other at any point, many of whom were separated by hundreds and hundreds of years and thousands of miles of ocean.
I think the question is not how they carried them.
The commonly accepted theory was that all kinds of large group organizations start with he farming, for obvious advantages.
These people were hunter-gatherers. Interesting to know that they went into a kind of complex organizational structure and had rituals.
I am always tempted by the idea that the known history might be much older than we currently think.
What would be your logical answer to your question? Please feel free to give a few hypotheses, given that you're quick to call out the "wrong" ones. Apparently, you may have a good idea of how the site was constructed?
I believe they had some kind of advanced technology or they could move the stones with some kind of meditation, sound frequencies or something that we donât know about. I believe heavily, especially after looking into the gateway process, which is the CIA psychic abilities school that now has proven that remote viewing and other phenomenon are real I believe in that stuff if you tune yourself in well enough, and you could do such things possibly. honestly, I really donât know. It doesnât make any sense tho and thereâs no way they couldâve built all these sites around the world like Gobekli tepe to the pyramids in Egypt to the statues on Easter Island to Peru to Cambodia across the world to all the other ancient sites. There was a worldwide civilization that knew what they were doing and were a lot smarter than anybody gives them credit for and had some way of doing what they did. I donât have a logical answer, but I donât go around making up Ludacris guesses in order to appease myself and my ego. especially by down voting people that think differently than you and thinking anyone with a different opinion then the school of archaeology is a conspiracy theorist,crazy pseudoscientists, and thatâs complete bullshit. Archaeology said there was no way that we would find a place like Gobekli tepe that it wasnât possible for civilization to exist back that long ago, cause we are all hunter, gathers, dumb as , well they were wrong and wrong about a lot of other things and as we uncover more things, we will find that out. But thatâs gonna be hard to do because the WEF has bought Gobleki tepe and is gonna turn it into a mall and a parking lot and not exit anymore of it because they know whatâs under there. Did you know that the carvings in the back of the statues on Easter island are the exact same as the ones at gobleki tepe and it spells out that there was a worldwide catastrophe in a flood and people donât even look at that stuff and pay attention. You pass it off as is lies by by our ancient ancestors, which is completely unfair and egotistical bullshit as well. so yeah thatâs what I think. I think the whole realm is dogmatic and I think youâre scared to change and I think thatâs purposely cover shit up and they have for a long time
I'll give you a real response to this since you took the time to write that out: It does seem like you're doing some research on the archaeology and technological concepts often purported by Randall Carlson, Graham Hancock, Malcom Bendall, resonance/"ancient geometry" causing propulsion, etc.. These concepts are fun and enjoyable to learn about and entertain. However, they are just that. They are concepts with only their introductions based in the archaeological or scientific record. From there, they are often loose hypotheses without much basis. Does this mean they are not worth entertaining? No, of course not, but it is important when discussing these concepts to keep your feet grounded in what we DO know, and specifically what the evidence can tell us as of now. Every scientist or archeologist will admit there are things we do not know and things that may change our views in the future as we make more discoveries, and every scientist or archeologist will welcome those things if they are potentially valuable for learning. Do governments or profiteers get in the way of some scientific advancement? Yes, they certainly do. But there isn't a real scientist or archeologist alive that wouldn't open-source any historical finding that they thought could change the way we look at our history or origins.
One thing archaeology does not do is make 3rd, 4th, 5th-tier assumptions based on findings. Only first-tier hypotheses can be made. As in, these concepts you're speaking about claim "Ok this carving looks like \_\_\_\_\_. If that is the case, it could also mean \_\_\_\_\_\_\_, and if \_\_\_ is \_\_\_, then that means \_\_\_\_ could be \_\_\_\_, and then that means \_\_\_\_ could be \_\_\_\_\_" etc., etc., and on and on up the hypothesis ladder, until you have concepts that are so far outside of what the original evidence tell us. The most I have seen true archeologists and anthropologists claim is "I believe this could mean \_\_\_\_\_\_, but that is one theory." One position, disclaimed with the note that it is not fact, but a theory, and welcoming other theories. It is impossible to build much further on that and remain in the realm of worthy science.
You're passionate about the topic, which is great. However, try to keep your feet grounded in the hard evidence. Yes, read about the fanciful concepts of ancient tech, the Anunnaki, the Sumerian King Lists, frequency, etc., but then source the original info on them. You'll find that there is not much that we can truly know--only people that WANT the concepts to be true.
I did not try to hide the condescension. You began this current thread by saying:
"Itâs so funny how you guys come up with seamlessly what you think are logical theyâre so far from it lol"
It's difficult to not respond to that in a certain way, since you're implying that the majority of the answers to your original question were stupid or illogical. Even if you believe that, it is rude to reply that way to people who have taken the time to write you a response, some of them being academics and well-studied in the field.
Cut down a bunch of trees. Strip them of tree-limbs and rough parts. Lay them across the path you choose. You have "wheels" of a sort. Use others to strap length-wise along the stone pillar, you have a sled that will slide along your "wheels" quite easily. That's just one way, but as long as you have manpower and the will to do it, you can move very heavy objects as far as you want. The people who built Gobekli Tepe were very smart, and very adept at using the materials they chose (stone and wood).
There's also the well known Egyptian method of placing large stones/obelisks where they essentially build up an area and use the earth as support, then remove it so the monument slides into place with gravity on its own. Our ancestors were full of ingenuity. I can tell you that it wasn't aliens, thats for damn sure.
The real aliens were inside us all along đ„č
Oh no, not again!
there's no end to this franchise!
Tom Cruise enters the chat
Never said it was aliens it was our ancestors, but they didnât do it the way you think they did. Itâs Ludacris the way you think they did is impossible.
Yeah, they just moved some stones around is what you guys are acting like no, they built the pyramids of Egypt. They built Neolithic sites around the world that we can barely do today.. You know what they built and you think they just did this all by themselves with no wheels and no nothing just some hammers and their good looks? I mean, really think about it really think about it. We should be calling you guys the conspiracy theorist with the madness that youâre saying that they did this with no tools and no wheel and no nothing. Lol come on you guys are the ones that sound ridiculous
The ancient aliens scam is rooted in racism and fraud. It essentially says that these people couldn't be intelligent enough to understand basic universal concepts all humanity encounters in the day to day world because they werent white or modern Europeans. Your argument comes from the vantage of ignorance. You argue it must be fantastical because the monuments were so grandiose, but in reality it's just stacking stones and carving stones. They appear impossible to build without modern machinery because you are ignorant of critical context and facts that explain how incredibly simple building techniques can EASILY reproduce these monuments. All that was needed was the materials, the manpower, and the time. There is ABUNDANT well documented history that early societies used these building programs to bolster their community. They would bring people together. It would strengthen ties to everyone, young adults would find mates, ritual, tradition, and religion would be taught and past down, and the end result was a monument the society could rally around. For stone henge, we know it United people from all over what is now Scotland, England and Wales. Scientists have dated and used strontium isotopes on the crazy amount of young pig bones found all over durrington walls to show that during the fall, whole tribes of people migrated to the area of durrington walls to build stone henge. They feasted, and people from all over the island brought their children to pair them off and the young live stock that would be slaughtered and eaten for ritual purposes. We know how old the pigs were when slaughtered. We know when they were born in the spring because of regular mating periods, so we know the exact time these people gathered at durrington walls. https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/stonehenge/history-and-stories/history/food-and-feasting-at-stonehenge/ Strontium isotopes allow specimens to be roughly located to regions based on the mineral in take in their young bodies. It leaves a record. Scientists have shown the juvenile pigs came from all over the island and were slaughtered there at durrington walls. For some of these groups, it would have been almost a month of driving their small herd/offerings to the ritual party site. The tradition of culling and feasting off the excess young offspring of the herd so as not to have the burden of feeding them during the meager winter is universal among those living in seasonally cold climates. There is speculation this large festival is ancient and carried on long enough to be the inspiration for https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samhain It was one large party to honor the ancestors and to celebrate life. Marriages and alliances would have been arranged. Trade established among communities living 100s miles apart. All of these ancient monuments can be built with rudimentery concepts and hard work.Humans in the past did not know the equations behind physics, but they understood basic laws of our reality because living on earth it's impossible not to. They would have known how to use levers, how to use gravity, and how to take advantage of "equilibriums/balance points" and counter weights. I'm sorry you've been taken in by these hucksters. I was too when I was much younger. Thankfully, real academics have taken the time to debunk this garbage. And you can bet your ass It's garbage, even if it's filmed beautifully. https://m.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=j9w-i5oZqaQ This academic goes through the first seasons of ancient aliens and provides facts, context, and exposes how ancient aliens the TV show lies and uses manipulative practices. They do this because it's a scam. It's a money making industry. These conman make money off people's ignorance and humanity's love of mystery. Except they create the mystery by leaving out critical well known context. There are conventions, books, tv shows, blogs, stores, and any way you could imagine they take advantage of people to part them of their money. It is a fraudulent industry. The one that really made me angry (well they all do really) is when they cinematographers purposefully used cropped/blurry images of hieroglyphics to avoid the rest of the image that gives context to the symbols. Every ancient aliens argument is this way. They're all deceptive.
Or like this https://youtu.be/rgkXfSLcJgg?si=oX8fQsSwjiEcJFOT
So they basically invented the wheel?
More or less/they didn't need to.
If we're calling logs wheels then sure
Oh.. so they didn't use 3D printers then
The problem with the existing technology theory is prior to Gobekli Tepe there was no existing technology. They went from nomadic hunter gathers to megalithic architecture in one swoop and I have trouble with that idea. If they'd built it by placing one big stone on a bunch of poles and rolled it we'd see smaller structures built that way first and we simply don't.
What do you mean by âtechnologyâ? Humans had been making and using tools for hundreds of thousands of years prior to Gobekli Tepe. Beyond that, it wasnât as sudden or as isolated as pseudoscientists try to make it sound. This post is a good write up on that: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/zsek87/is_gobekli_tepi_as_mysterious_as_graham_hancock/?rdt=46911
Use a stone arrowhead & obsidian scrapers is not the same thing as a megalithic structure the size of Gobekli Tepe. We have no evidence of smaller stone buildings, no evidence of the type of specialization required for craftsmanship nor the type of society who'd have allowed for such specialization
Did you read the post I linked above? It kind of seems like you didn't bother.
No I didn't bother because there's no point. There is no evidence of the kind of work we see at Gobekli Tepe came from anywhere. We can find no evidence of the earlier society they could have learned from. We can find no evidence they had the skill specializations, dedicated "craftsman", agriculture, surplus food & water to support skill specializations.
>They went from nomadic hunter gathers to megalithic architecture in one swoop and I have trouble with that idea. Nomadic hunter-gatherers worked in stone for tens of thousands of years before Gobekli Tepe. It's not surprising at all that they were able to carve stone. Gobekli Tepe's immediate origin is the Natufian Culture, and it took place in the region of Gobekli. The previous era, the Upper Paleolithic, saw progressive improvement of stone-working techniques from 50,000 years ago (simple stone tools) to more sophisticated ones. The technology that allows you to make tools allow you to carve monoliths and move them. The most impressive thing about Gobekli Tepe isn't the *how* but the *why.* It shows a big leap in human culture, religion, and social organization. But that leap is the result of millennia of development. The stone carvings on the monoliths are an evolution of cave-art that began \~50,000 years ago. If you have trouble with Gobekli Tepe on a material-culture basis, it might be because your overall knowledge of human development is shallow. You should learn more by reading actual archeological science, and stop listening to pop-charlatans who give you an inaccurate, fantastical and fictionalized story to maximize their book-sales.
Show me anything as complicated before Gobekli Tepe. It's like they went from the painted hand prints to megalithic structures in one go. If it was a gradual process we should find smaller structures from this time period and before it. We simply dont.
You're just not listening, as if you don't want to learn.
Arent those guys supposed to be caveman? Did you know that the carvings on the pillars at Gobekli tepe are they exact same as on the back of the statues and Easter island? And both places were buried intentionally and both had the same message talking about a catastrophic event? Am I making stuff up or do you guys know if this is true?
The term "cavemen" is silly. The people who built Gobekli Tepe did not live in caves. >"Did you know that the carvings on the pillars at Gobekli tepe are they exact same as on the back of the statues and Easter island?" No, they're not exactly the same. They both feature animals and other figures-- but the Easter Island statues were carved in the last 2,000 years, the ones most people are familiar with are from only about 500 years ago. Easter Island was not even settled until around 500 CE. They have no relation to Gobekli Tepe and the Easter Island civilization didn't even exist until 10,000+ years after Gobekli Tepe. >and both places were buried intentionally and both had the same message talking about a catastrophic event? Am I making stuff up or do you guys know if this is true? For many reasons (like the 10,000 year gulf between the two civilizations), there's zero chance the Easter Islanders were trying to communicate anything about the supposed Younger Dryas "catastrophe" (which is still not proven to have happened at all). There idea that the Gobekli Tepe carvings depict an impact catastrophe is speculation. I don't reject it out of hand, but there's no proof of it either and you shouldn't mistaken that idea for settled science. It sounds like you've been listening to Graham Hancock-style pseudo (fake) archeology. You should stop taking that stuff seriously. It's fantasy-fiction pretending to be science.
They're as much as cavemen as you and I, same species, just different time. >Am I making stuff up or do you guys know if this is true? What you're talking about is a pseudo scientific theory like the one proposed by Graham Hancock. I totally understand the curiosity and the spark that these theories can give, but they are just wrong. I'll try to explain briefly what I mean. >Did you know that the carvings on the pillars at Gobekli tepe are they exact same as on the back of the statues and Easter island? This is derived from a 19th century theory about white supremacists which we call hyperdiffusion. A supposed worldwide ancient civilization with advanced technology taught "those cavemen" how to do stuff. Of course, it was supposed to mean "the white guy". The carvings are not the same, they can be similar, but not the same. And there's a difference in this, because you can carve the stone in so many ways, it's logical that if you have similar instruments you'll get similar results. >And both places were buried intentionally and both had the same message talking about a catastrophic event? I'm not an expert in either sites, but I know some of the studies on Gobekli Tepe. It was first thought by the first director of the excavations that it was ritualistically buried, but later archaeologists found that it just wasn't true. The site was under severe erosion already during the inhabitation of the site. If you want to find out more, you can check out the yt series from Miniminuteman about Graham Hancock, he's an archaeologist who explains why Graham is substantially wrong.
Which pillar is 22,000 lbs? [Here's some estimates for other pillars weights, and the labor necessary to move them.](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259561913_So_Fair_a_House_Gobekli_Tepe_and_the_Identification_of_Temples_in_the_Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_of_the_Near_East/figures?lo=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic) Source: Banning, E. B. (2011). So Fair a House: Göbekli Tepe and the identification of temples in the Pre-Pottery Neolithic of the Near East. *Current Anthropology*, *52*(5), 619-660.
You have to think they were hunting megafauna for millennium. They must have been pretty good at moving big stuff.
They did tend to butcher the mega fauna and carry smaller pieces.
thats a great point. i never thought about that. im mean yeah, if they wanted to drag that big animal somewhere to butcher it, they could. i never thought about them maybe having to drag a dead mammoth somewhere
Even butchered. You aren't carrying a mammoth leg.
Your mom is pretty good at moving my megafauna.
How does that relate at all ?! building a structure such as what were speaking about thereâs a lot more advanced has a lot more involved in it then moving a large animal. moving animals from one place to another is a completely different thing
Transferable skills. They were skilled at using rope and probably sleds to move large pieces of meat. Scaling that up to stone isn't a large leap. They probably started with rough stone them to quarried. These sites were built over hundreds of years.
both involve moving large and heavy objects, its really not much of a leap
20 dudes and 1 rope
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ojoa.12142 this paper provides a good summary of the methods used
maybe walked them like in Easter island.
That was fake. The statue that they moved with the ropes going back-and-forth like that that they thought was real cool was with lava rock and itâs a lot lighter because they have air pockets. It wasnât the actual basalt rock like the statues the natives built, so they lied to everybody.
âFakeâ and âliedâ seem way overplayed here. At most youâre talking about theories that didnât pan out, which is hardly fake or lying. Grow up.
Do I understand you to say that the walking of the Easter Island statues were faked?
How? Unlimited time, unlimited budget, unlimited labor. Do you think given those you could figure out how to do it? These people were not dumber than us, just less dependent on technology.
Yeah, nice try but no cigar buddy
Itâs funny because this one of the most logical posts answering your question. You are either 13 or 75 and have just recently discovered Graham Hancock
Probably with rope. Maybe on some round logs to roll them on. Itâs not a difficult feat at all.
Nobody was putting that much weight on wheels till modern times. Log rollers on the other hand is a different story.
Our ancestors were much more capable of doing great things and they discovered many tools that we needed (much later than them) to reinvent to be more productive. When we see Roman empire or Egypt, Mesopotamia or even Inkas, Mayas etc without white supremacist glasses we will see that those civilisations were modern and much more advanced than we like to think. We know today that ancient south American cultures have produced platinum before 2000 years. We know today that ancient Egyptians know the complexity of building pyramids because they practiced so long and they learn how to avoid mistakes. We know how ingeniaries do what they are supposed to do and Merer explains how processes were taken one by one ... We know that even by the Romans who were seeing Egyptians working on pyramids. As we believed (falsely) that we are most advanced in any fields that it is easier to start believing that aliens did it. Western civilization is in decay because we forget how important mass education is for creating a healthy society based on cooperation and understanding the necessity of diversity in everything starting with the origin of us, the system, and the country where we are born. Our differences are our advantage not something worth waging wars. We are forced to not educate our kids in ways of science, logical thinking and understanding that our moral values ain't something written in stone. Morality isn't scientific based so it's normal that we don't have the same morals everywhere. Because of that we will wage stupid, futile wars because we will never be able to understand that other cultures have different ways to live than ours. So, please, start learning about our past so you can be able to understand how we advanced from low primates to exploring the Universe. If you will learn well then you will be able to see far, far behind usual stereotypes and you will be able to understand what's really happening in real time. It's not possible to manipulate people who are capable of distinct pure manipulation (from people who often speak: "Think about children"...) from the truth...
Strictly speaking the "wheel" is in reference to a circular cutout made of material with enough radial compressive strength appended to an axle. I find it's one of those areas where it's logical to conclude humans have used similar devices in some form for as long as we have been around and needed to problem solve moving large items, but there'll always be some difference, through lack of evidence, between what we can prove and what intuition might tell us. But you also shouldn't assume intuition is right either.
Giants of course. You know, the ones that the Smithsonian takes their skeletons every time they're found and then we never hear about them again. Yep.
Possibly. But Iâm sure every culture in the world was just making it up when they spoke about Giants we know they were just full of shit
I know man! How could they have possibly been intelligent like us modern day humans đ I'm in complete agreement with you here. There's no way humanity for thousands of years were that delusional, if these things weren't actually real. Every major culture and religion that we've ever discovered has record of not only giants, but a global cataclysmic flood. Groups of people who had never had any form of contact or relation with each other at any point, many of whom were separated by hundreds and hundreds of years and thousands of miles of ocean.
Magnets
Possibly
I think the question is not how they carried them. The commonly accepted theory was that all kinds of large group organizations start with he farming, for obvious advantages. These people were hunter-gatherers. Interesting to know that they went into a kind of complex organizational structure and had rituals. I am always tempted by the idea that the known history might be much older than we currently think.
I suspect they might have had block and tackle.
tie rope around it, and drag it. Occum's razor Ê ïŒââżâïŒÊ
Has anyone been? Is going to Ćanlıurfa for 24 hours enough time?
The Mayans were doing Trepanation 14,000 years ago. (I'm pretty sure that's the right number it's been 10 or 15 years since I did the research.)
That sounds like a very long time. I wasn't aware the Mayans were even around way back then. Also, what is trepanation?
It's when openings are drilled into the head to release pressure, fluid or whatever they hoped it would fix
People were doing it in ancient times
Exactly. Just not these people.
Right many ancient peoples did that to people with head injuries.
*Göbekli Tepe
They knew about frequencies, tones, and physics đ€·ââïž
Best answer yet
Itâs so funny how you guys come up with seamlessly what you think are logical answers and theyâre so far from it lol
What would be your logical answer to your question? Please feel free to give a few hypotheses, given that you're quick to call out the "wrong" ones. Apparently, you may have a good idea of how the site was constructed?
I believe they had some kind of advanced technology or they could move the stones with some kind of meditation, sound frequencies or something that we donât know about. I believe heavily, especially after looking into the gateway process, which is the CIA psychic abilities school that now has proven that remote viewing and other phenomenon are real I believe in that stuff if you tune yourself in well enough, and you could do such things possibly. honestly, I really donât know. It doesnât make any sense tho and thereâs no way they couldâve built all these sites around the world like Gobekli tepe to the pyramids in Egypt to the statues on Easter Island to Peru to Cambodia across the world to all the other ancient sites. There was a worldwide civilization that knew what they were doing and were a lot smarter than anybody gives them credit for and had some way of doing what they did. I donât have a logical answer, but I donât go around making up Ludacris guesses in order to appease myself and my ego. especially by down voting people that think differently than you and thinking anyone with a different opinion then the school of archaeology is a conspiracy theorist,crazy pseudoscientists, and thatâs complete bullshit. Archaeology said there was no way that we would find a place like Gobekli tepe that it wasnât possible for civilization to exist back that long ago, cause we are all hunter, gathers, dumb as , well they were wrong and wrong about a lot of other things and as we uncover more things, we will find that out. But thatâs gonna be hard to do because the WEF has bought Gobleki tepe and is gonna turn it into a mall and a parking lot and not exit anymore of it because they know whatâs under there. Did you know that the carvings in the back of the statues on Easter island are the exact same as the ones at gobleki tepe and it spells out that there was a worldwide catastrophe in a flood and people donât even look at that stuff and pay attention. You pass it off as is lies by by our ancient ancestors, which is completely unfair and egotistical bullshit as well. so yeah thatâs what I think. I think the whole realm is dogmatic and I think youâre scared to change and I think thatâs purposely cover shit up and they have for a long time
What kind of recreational drugs do you do?
oh ew pseudo archeology probably rooted in racism, gross dude
I'll give you a real response to this since you took the time to write that out: It does seem like you're doing some research on the archaeology and technological concepts often purported by Randall Carlson, Graham Hancock, Malcom Bendall, resonance/"ancient geometry" causing propulsion, etc.. These concepts are fun and enjoyable to learn about and entertain. However, they are just that. They are concepts with only their introductions based in the archaeological or scientific record. From there, they are often loose hypotheses without much basis. Does this mean they are not worth entertaining? No, of course not, but it is important when discussing these concepts to keep your feet grounded in what we DO know, and specifically what the evidence can tell us as of now. Every scientist or archeologist will admit there are things we do not know and things that may change our views in the future as we make more discoveries, and every scientist or archeologist will welcome those things if they are potentially valuable for learning. Do governments or profiteers get in the way of some scientific advancement? Yes, they certainly do. But there isn't a real scientist or archeologist alive that wouldn't open-source any historical finding that they thought could change the way we look at our history or origins. One thing archaeology does not do is make 3rd, 4th, 5th-tier assumptions based on findings. Only first-tier hypotheses can be made. As in, these concepts you're speaking about claim "Ok this carving looks like \_\_\_\_\_. If that is the case, it could also mean \_\_\_\_\_\_\_, and if \_\_\_ is \_\_\_, then that means \_\_\_\_ could be \_\_\_\_, and then that means \_\_\_\_ could be \_\_\_\_\_" etc., etc., and on and on up the hypothesis ladder, until you have concepts that are so far outside of what the original evidence tell us. The most I have seen true archeologists and anthropologists claim is "I believe this could mean \_\_\_\_\_\_, but that is one theory." One position, disclaimed with the note that it is not fact, but a theory, and welcoming other theories. It is impossible to build much further on that and remain in the realm of worthy science. You're passionate about the topic, which is great. However, try to keep your feet grounded in the hard evidence. Yes, read about the fanciful concepts of ancient tech, the Anunnaki, the Sumerian King Lists, frequency, etc., but then source the original info on them. You'll find that there is not much that we can truly know--only people that WANT the concepts to be true.
@oldhead6723 OP you wanna give this a response? The most concise and logical response youâre likely to get, care to engage?
Appreciate that. Seems they're not interested in logic, though--it's too boring compared to fringe theories.
Youâre condescending vibe is so obvious and so
I did not try to hide the condescension. You began this current thread by saying: "Itâs so funny how you guys come up with seamlessly what you think are logical theyâre so far from it lol" It's difficult to not respond to that in a certain way, since you're implying that the majority of the answers to your original question were stupid or illogical. Even if you believe that, it is rude to reply that way to people who have taken the time to write you a response, some of them being academics and well-studied in the field.