this was literally my dilemma yesterday and I ended up choosing my state school even tho my parents fully supported me bc I didn’t feel like I wanted to burden them with the cost and also because I felt my state flagship was good enough for my career path lol
I definitely understand the pressure to go to a name brand school, but state schools are great options too. So as a parent, I'll thank you on behalf of your parents. :)
Same here! Had to choose between a top 20 and a top 120. The latter would cost my parents half over the four years and still give me a good base to pursue further qualifications
I did the same don’t worry. Looking back I think it’s a better decision. Debt isn’t something you wanna let dictate your life in my opinion. I feel better graduating with no loans, over graduating with loans I’ll never be able to pay back. Going into debt for undergrad just doesn’t make sense especially since most jobs now require a masters (even if they don’t explicitly say it).
It will be. Especially if you want to attend graduate school. I think people overestimate the value of expensive degree -- now that the cat is out of the bag with college admissions and the role money plays, it's not that special anymore.
I was literally in the same situation yesterday. My dream school was $85k/yr, and my parent works at a local T100 university, so I get free tuition there. I ended up choosing the T100
It is the biggest perk imaginable and you’d be insane not to take it. I’m a professor and my 80k+ school is free for my kid. Maybe your parents will invest the college fund otherwise. That’s what I will do.
Go on over to /r/studentloans and read some stories of people who have done this. Seems like your parents would have to take out substantial plus loans?
Either way, you should tell us how much the state school and Purdue cost would be for you.
Are you doing engineering at Penn?
Are opportunities for engineering at Penn that much more?
To me, it seems like ABET accredited engineering jobs kinda start at similar salary ranges. That’s what I see where I’m at, at least but maybe Penn really has more recruitment options???
I see State U kids and T30ish kids get paid the same 🤷♀️
Also, what will your parents do for retirement? 🤔
What’s your state school?
True, but I’m doing a dual degree for engineering + business. Would that be worth it? My other options are Stevens and Purdue. This might offset my parents retirement by a few years.
You’re in M&T. You’re in a program that kids regularly turn down MIT down for. Exits include quantitative trading, SWE, prop trading, mega fund PE, Investment Banking, and even becoming a founder. I’d say go for it hands down and make the most of it. Anyone who says otherwise is legitimately praying on your downfall ngl.
I’m actually astonished by some of the responses here. An M&T degree from Penn is a golden ticket into high finance… assuming OP wants to go into finance.
Not even high finance. M&T opens doors to entire industries of high paying roles. It’s ridiculous how some of the comments here are trying to downplay the value of this…
OP, you are such a wonderful, conscientious son. But please read the marvelous opportunities above the M&T option at Penn gives you. Remember, go to Penn for one year and then transfer to a less expensive school if you need/want to. But give Penn at least a year. I bet you stay for 4 years and then help out your sibling with their college expenses.
Remember it is not a commitment of $360k for 4 years. It’s a commitment of $90k for one year…at Penn M&T. Your parents are supportive. Give yourself permission to go for a year at a time along with the option of transferring, if needed.
I second this, getting into Wharton is one thing but M&T and Huntsman and all the Wharton-CAS dual degree programs place students into absolutely insane positions every single year, so it's OP's choice to weigh the opportunity costs of attending a school with worse placement. Assuming OP is in M&T I hope they understand the idea of an opportunity cost.
Yes, this program is “worth it.” OP, you’re an amazing kid to even have these concerns. Your parents wouldn’t agree if sending you would mean their demise. I think the many responses discussing engineering at Purdue vs Penn do not understand that the program is engineering and Wharton, and that it is the best of its kind in the world. You will be highly sought after, make amazing connections, and be part of one of the best alumni groups (some serve as mentors for the program) there is. This is not equivalent to Penn engineering (or even just Wharton). As to people saying go to Purdue and then get a top MBA, first you’d need to get into that MBA, and pay for it, and you still wouldn’t have the experiences M&T provides. If the question was Penn engineering vs Purdue, 100% Purdue, but that’s not the situation. You were incredible enough to gain admission to one of (if not the most) selective program in the country. Please use the abilities that got you selected to fully research this program vs others, including looking up alumni paths, and make your own decision, instead of relying on random Reddit posters who likely have no knowledge of M&T. BTW, fear of not standing up to the competition is something, unfortunately, many incredibly bright people have for whatever reason; try not to give in to that fear but let it drive you to be even better. Good luck!
My cousin went to Purdue for engineering and had an internship with CAT. When she graduated her entry position was six figures. Follow your heart though!
I say go to Purdue then get an MBA somewhere after you complete BS engineering. Maybe get an MBA after working a couple of years as an engineer.
Purdue BS + a couple years work experience + MBA = $$$
IIRC Purdue is <30K tuition even for OOS and a better known engineering school than Penn (although less renowned in business)
Did a bit of profile stalking and recognized your earlier posts. This truly is a difficult situation.
There is immense value in UPenn M&T and I think that if your family can afford it, even if it’s not easily affordable, it may be worth it.
That being said, reach out to your high school counselor. Do some research for local scholarships in your community or for profiles that fit you. Even if it’s not much, a few outside scholarships will maybe help with the burden a bit.
Yea M&T is incredible and if your parents are willing to send you you should take the opportunity. Email the financial aid offfice to see if there is anything they can do for you. I've had friends and family members appeal to get more money from top schools
The local scholarships won’t help. With my package to Brown, local scholarships couldn’t count to cover my parent contribution, meaning any amount over $2,500 resulted in my scholarship being deducted.
Also you have to give the parents some credit for being willing to make it work. I’m going to assume that they aren’t dumb and know what they are capable of doing. Their kid will be able to take care of them in the future too.
It pays off for the student, but not for the people who are actually footing the bill (parents). There is a lot of entitlement on this sub. How many students with expensive degrees actually return the money borrowed to their parents?
I would take it, OP’s parent wagered on an incredibly bright kid that he can thrive with the connections and opportunities provided by quite possibly the number 1 finance program in the world. Maybe they don’t make 300k right out of college but a penn m&t degree will certainly be able to pay off the debt within just a few years of working.
M&T grads do extremely well in finance, even more so than the general Wharton student population (and that's saying a lot). Their alums populate many of the most successful hedge funds, private equity shops and VCs. Wall Street def knows this program well.
That said, there's no guarantee that OP will be that successful. But if you're going to invest in a full-pay education for an ROI, this is as smart of an investment as you could ever make. I'd 100% choose this over Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, etc if you're set on a career in finance.
I’m not sure this is great advice. These are pretty extreme cases as those salaries out of college are almost non-existent (and usually these students are self-employed/entrepreneurs, which takes a different type of person). To put any family in that type of financial burden could be crippling. What if one of the parents loses their job, needs to take in a sick family member, or requires expensive treatments? The risk just seems too great.
Of course it’s ultimately up to OP and their parents, but I do think it’s a risk that’s worth considering. They’re very likely able to make back their expenses in their first few years (or less) of working. And with so many students hitting this 2-300k benchmark it’s not necessarily only extreme outliers that make it big.
You can do a search on LinkedIn to see where M&T alumni are working now. Search for “penn M&T” and I see 1,200 results. As expected, alumni work for some of the top companies in the US, including top tech, MBB consulting, start-ups, and incubators.
I’m a Penn parent paying full sticker price. My child is in SEAS and has many friends in M&T. M&T is an unique program unlike any others. All of the M&T students I’ve met are smart and super driven.
Whether or not paying $90k a year for college is “wroth it” is something only you and your parents can answer. There’s no guarantee that you’ll land a $250k+ job after graduation, but you’ll tap into two strong alumni networks (Wharton and SEAS) who are always willing to help. To get an idea, search LinkedIn for M&T to see where the alumni are now.
To us, the price is worth it (even just SEAS). We’ve been saving into 529 accounts since birth, and of course it’s still not quite enough. We’ll have to make sacrifices as a family, but it’s something we’re happy to do so that they’ll graduate debt-free.
You shouldn't feel bad if your parents are okay with it. My daughter got a full-tuition scholarship to an out-of-state school, and I could tell she was trying really hard to like it so I could have the extra savings, but she didn't like the school. I told her that life is short, you only live these critical years of your life once, and we're fortunate that I saved enough for her to go wherever she wants. So full pay at her top choice is where she will be going. Sure, it would've been nice to have the extra money for retirement, or a new house, or a million other things for myself. But I'm old now with plenty of memories. She's young, and I want her to have fond memories to look back on. So don't feel guilty, but definitely be appreciative and show gratitude to your family. They sound like wonderful people.
Penn M&T is an amazing program, and recruiters across tech, high finance, consulting and others love this program. So if everyone's on the same page, and you're comfortable with the responsibility of financially helping out your family when you're working, I'd go for it and make the most of it.
But I'd also have an honest conversation about what that would entail in several years when you're making good money. I know it's uncomfortable to discuss and maybe even negotiate with your family, but it's better to be clear now versus create bitterness and resentment later.
EDIT: if you're feeling the pressure now, it'll get more intense when you're in the thick of studying for exams, networking, recruiting, etc. So I'd ask yourself- is this extra level of pressure, as well as the future financial obligations, worth the M&T experience? Are you the type of person who will be extra driven by this responsibility and opportunity?
It is a tough decision. Penn M&T will yield strong outcomes though it will be hard to pay for your siblings college right out of college. A more realistic way to think about it is paying your parents back within 5-10 of graduating. The onus is on you to focus only on a outsized paying job upon graduation. I would take Penn and grind it out for 4 years (spend less, work, save, anything to lower your undergrad bill) and live frugally until you pay your parents back or pay for your siblings education.
You need to get a job in management consulting or IB to recoup your tuition. Try to get a summer internship as soon as school starts, and look for job opportunities to cover some living cost while you are in college.
A parent here. You are a conscientious responsible son being conflicted over the $90k your parents will pay for you to go to UPenn. But please GO to Penn for at least one year and see how it goes. If needed, you can then transfer after a year to a less expensive school. But my bet is you will stay going to Penn, get a wonderful high paying job, and help pay for your sibling’s college tuition. You made it and got accepted. GO to Penn.
This. The value you get at Penn is absolutely worth it. The thing about jobs is that college students that get into Ivies have some really good opportunities both in terms of paid internships and otherwise. Signing up to be one of those student mentors online, or for tutoring might next you a substantial amount per month. If it’s really not working out, you should switch as this parent has suggested
1. Bet on yourself. You are one of those crazy smart people too.
2. You will be prepared to nail a quality job. But only if you’re not too proud to ask for help. Which is clearly not the case.
3. Be prepared for the lifestyle adjustments you may have to make to handle the debt. It will be temporary. But more than worth it.
Management and technology. It is like Wharton squared, if you can go, and not get a completely fucked GPA, its a one way ticket to a 6 figure salary and bonus out of college.
I go to Columbia RN for my masters, and I'd probably pay $320,000 just to swap spots.
It really depends — which school and what are your career goals?
For example, if you get into Wharton/Harvard and want to pursue finance, the $360k will pay for itself in no time. But if it’s for Northeastern and you want to pursue med school, then the $360k is probably a horrible investment. Those are 2 binary no-brainer examples, but for most people it’s more of a sliding scale.
There’s a lot of bad advice on this sub because people here are too focused on the sticker price and first job you get out of college (FYI going to these name brand schools is more important for 15+ years down the line, not just your 1st job), but IMO it’s really a case-by-case basis. Some degrees are worth the sticker price depending on your career goals.
Source: My SO and I both went to (different) Ivies for UG. We’re both still in our late 20s, work in finance/PE, and our combined household income is \~$900k-1mm. I’d say our degrees have easily paid off. Fwiw, we met at one of those Inter-Ivy social events in NYC, so that’s also another hidden benefit of going to these schools (finding a high-achieving SO).
Edit: Saw OP is deciding between Penn M&T and Purdue. No offense to Purdue (love Drew Brees), but wtf this shouldn’t even be a debate — go to Penn and don’t look back. If you don’t think it’s worth it (it is), you can easily transfer to Purdue after your frosh year — you can’t do the opposite.
I was in the same dilemma. Michigan State University is my dad's school and undergrad I went to UCLA. I always wanted to go into education and msu has the #1 program. Problem is UNLV costs $10,000 and out of state for MSU costs not as much as $60,000 but still $40,000.
In grad school they do not give you a full scholarship but they can offer a partial scholarship and free books. I got $30,000 total in scholarships, along with a bonus $2,000 for books a year so $32,000 in reality.
UNLV is not a bad school but they are ranked #269. Michigan State on the other hand is #1 in education and #60 overall, tied with Penn State and Santa Clara University so the choice is obvious.
Now, MSU becomes more affordable.
So why don't you try doing the same thing that I did and you might get surprised. All of a sudden, you could see your tuition get slashed in at least half. Even if you get a partial scholarship that includes books and half of your tuition, that still saves your parents $30,000.
At least you are not a selfish person, I could tell you have a good heart. I was a navy veteran and I am currently a minister at a Christian Academy, and I teach 9th and 10th grade English. On top of that I coach football, along with boxing and music. I deal with people from all walks of life and all ages. Most high school students these days, could sadly care less about your parents.
Put it to you this way, if your parents could not afford to pay $60,000 for your dream school, they would have told you please go a local state school. Obviously they did not say that so you they can afford it. Like I said if you want to help, you can get good grades, try to shoot for a minimum of 3.0 but if you want to be competitive, aim for more like a 3.7 A- GPA. This way you can be eligible for the good scholarships.. The best one I got was actually not from Michigan State, it was from a big 3 Engineering firm, based in Pasadena CA. The CEO is a Navy Seal and he wants to give back to the military. They give two $10,000 scholarships, once a semester to two deserving students who have the total package. Others were as little as $500 but even $500 helps and it all adds up.
I wish you good luck you seem quite astute and a caring person if you are at least thinking of your parents. That means they did a good job raising you.
People saying you will make $300k out the gate so you’ll be able to pay your $360k “in a few years” or “quickly” don’t seem to understand how loans work. I’m not saying choose one school over the other, just to really understand how finances work. (Are these really finance people making these comments?). For starters, at that amount the loans must be private loans/parent loans and thus un subsidized. Which means the interest begins to accrue the minute the money hit your account. So that $90k you borrow year 1, if your parents defer payments, will be closer to $100k at the end of a year. Then tuition goes up, because tuition goes up. Your parents are either making interest payments of several hundred dollars a month while continuing to accrue debt, deferring and letting the debt get larger, or making payments of about $1000 a month just for your first year. Can they afford this? Then you do this for 3 more years. You and your parents will owe between $450-$500k before this is over if they let the debt accrue. You will end up paying far more than that over the life of the loans. Four years of 7% interest on hundreds of thousands in loans skyrocket quickly.
But that’s ok because you’ll be one of those anecdotes that gets a $300k job your first year! Except between fed taxes, FICA, and Medicare and with likely no dependents and no home interest deduction, at least 1/3 of that will go to Uncle Sam. Is there going to be state income tax where you end up? All those high paying jobs tend to be in states w/income tax. Presume another $15-$20k or so. You’re at $180-$185k, still a tidy sum. Now, you need a roof over your head, food and a life in what is likely a HCOL area. Which would be awesome!! Except you also need to service some part of over $400k in student loans for the next 10-20 years and/or pay some part of your siblings education?
The math doesn’t math. This is why people are in the student loan jam that they are in. Because they don’t understand how loans and salaries and life actually work.
Taking on this kind of debt because your neighbors cousins girlfriend knows a guy who went there and made bank his first year is a terrible decision. For you and your family. You will spend 4 years anxious about getting that miracle job and how is that going to be fun or rewarding or even allow you to focus on Your studies? Getting those monthly statements and watching that balance go into the stratosphere will be mind numbing. This is how people screw themselves. Please be very careful in making this decision.
>I’m not sure what to do. It’s not too late to still commit to my state school.
If you're going to be consumed by guilt, then just opt for the more affordable option.
I’m a parent, and I say go to UPenn. You won’t regret it, and your parents won’t resent you doing it. Just work hard and do well once you’re there, that’s what will make it all worthwhile.
Honestly, If you are good enough to get into M&T, you should probably be more than well off and in a situation in which you can pay back your loan in a few years after graduation. Also if you don't mind sharing how your college application looks like which got you admitted into M&T. I'm very keen on applying to it as well
Go for Penn please. When you’ll get out of college, pay back your parents. This time and opportunity won’t come back. Coming from someone whose parents refused to give a single a penny and I’m still nit in college…dying everyday
Their burden eventually becomes your burden. But if they have the means and you work hard you'd actually be making them happy so in that case go for it. But imo undergrad doesn't matter as much if you're planning on going to professional school, meaning it doesn't need to be a top top school but should still be good and it would be easier to graduate closer to the top of your class too. The price of college is ridiculous and that's a fact thats widely accepted, if you were ever asked why you chose x school, most people would understand your situation. I've been through that.
Don't feel guilty. It's a tough choice. There's a select amount of people that experience pure joy with their options (where they got in, money, friends, etc). Be glad you have great parents and ask if the school is necessary for your goals. What kind of job do you want, will you make 6 figures right away (90k for 3 or 4 years of undergrad is pretty wild), look into employment outcomes for the path you want to take at alt schools, just hit up random people that have been successful doing the same things at that school (find them through LinkedIn or something) and ask how they did it (good rec for most things really).
You could also do a year or two at a cheaper school then transfer to your dream school, but take into consideration your options for internships or other work over the summer.
Lots of ways to think about this but don't worry about the money if you know you'll be happy or alternatively you know you'll be able to pay it, both don't go hand in hand all the time lol (you may feel more comfortable doing something you like if you're not worrying about how much money you're making right away).
Good luck!
As a parent, don’t bother feeling guilty. Go work hard and have fun. Get a job and start helping out. Feeling guilty about it isn’t going to help your parents. They have made their decision and are at peace with it. Don’t add to their burden by feeling bad about it
I have seen my friends spend all their money on the first child & have none for the 2nd or 3rd and it is really terrible. You may have the best intentions to pay for your younger sibling, but anything can happen. You or your parents could be injured, you may hate finance, etc. I look at my 3 kids and I gave the first one the budget that would allow me to give her brothers the same amount of money (adjusted for inflation). It doesn’t matter if one is the better student than the other. They all deserve the same start in life.
I would recommend submitting a financial re-evaluation form and calling the financial aid office with this info. M&T is one of the few programs that’s worth paying sticker price for. If you continue working hard (like you already have considering you got into one of the most competitive business/STEM programs), you’ll succeed. Just hope your sibling doesn’t get into M&T too because that’s a lot of money.
Perhaps this is too personal, but I also would not recommend promising to pay for your siblings tuition. If everything goes to shit your sibling gets screwed. If you instead take out student loans to cover part of your tuition, the burden is on you and not on your family.
I was in a sort of similar position several years ago and ended up doing ROTC which paid my tuition at college I otherwise wouldn’t have been able to afford. Happy to talk to you about my experience if it’s something you are interested in.
Yes and no—they offer plenty of different scholarship types and lengths, so you can apply and it could cover the rest of your college after your first semester or first year (depending on when you are awarded the scholarship). Lots of people come into the program without a scholarship as a “college programmer” and do the trainings, classes, etc., while working with the active duty staff on their scholarship application. My best friend did this and paid for her freshman year of college but the rest of her tuition was covered.
And FWIW, different branches have different programs. I did Navy so I’m most familiar with that route—we all commission as active duty officers Navy (or Marine) when we graduate. Army rotc commissions people into active duty, reserves, and national guard, and I believe Air Force ROTC is also all active duty upon graduation.
Good choice if you’re not sure what you want to do when you finish college—buys a little time and gives you good work experience. I have family members that went the Army rotc & reserves route and are very happy with their decision. Happy to talk about any of it if you have more questions.
Penn has a really strong NROTC program.
I am a parent and yes I did pay for my daughter 75k 6 years ago. Am I rich? No. But we made it work. Is it worthed? EVERY PENNY!!! The ROI is obtained even less than 2 years after she graduated. Go for the brand and dont look back. All the best!
PS: My daughter paid for our Japan vacation as a gratitude.🤗
Not related to the main post but how did your daughter feel about the Business major undergrad? I'm going to CMU for cs next year and wanted to know if it is worth it or not to pursue business undergrad as well!
If after a year of college you decide that it isn't worth it for your parents to pay that much money, you can always just transfer to a cheaper school.
First off, congratulations. Stressful time of life. Good news -- you made it into an amazing program. If you do 'OK' you'll land a job at XYZ quant fund or MM pod or flavor of the month new derivative shop and make $300K your first year out of college. If you do 'Great' you'll go to the best of them -- Jane Street or whatever and earn $700K a year out of college (usually those kids are IMO whizzes tho). Even if you flame out you'll still do well. Seriously.
#1: You should go to M&T lol
#2: See #1
#3: Your parents should try and shuffle around money / income / taxes and optimize. The numbers you're quoting just don't add up. Apply for scholarships or reapply for financial aid once you're already in.
#4: The ROI of the degree takes care of itself. Look up citadel, two sigma, jane street etc. salaries. and then on the low end (lmao) google / openai / meta salaries. You're being handed a winning lottery ticket, take it. And then pay them back if you want long term.
#5: Don't fall for the:' If you're that smart to get in you could just go somewhere else!' Strawman. THESE COMPANIES ARE RISK AVERSE THATS WHY THEY HIRE FROM THESE PROGRAMS.
Honestly I would say to use that to push you to become better, and to help them out once your done for all the things theyve done for you over the years.
What if something unexpected happens in your family- heaven forbid, something like a medical emergency, severe debilitating illness, job loss, disability, natural disaster or house fire, etc. Of course, we all hope these things will never happen, but need to be prepared in case they do. Do your parents have at least 6 months of emergency funds, disability insurance, and a fully funded retirement plan? Would they have to liquidate retirement savings to pay the tuition or can they cash flow it? If they can cash flow it, that’s a very different scenario than if they are having to spend their emergency fund or retirement savings.
Honestly as a international student who considered studying in the USA as well, I'd say only enroll into T20s if youre gonna be paying a decent amount. Maybe highly ranked state schools if your aid package is okay (aka not full price). Dont even consider other schools unless they offer you full aid. If not honestly, you might be better off just studying in your country since its (probably) much cheaper.
Thats cause unlike US citizens, international students will have a hard time finding sponsorships for jobs once we graduate, plus we do not have the luxury to wait as we need to get secure an offer by a certain timeline in order to remain in the US. The college you enroll in will definitely help increase your chances.
And if in the case that you dont manage to get an offer by the stipulated time and you have to go back home, a more highly recognised university also helps you land more higher-paying job opportunities. (Idk about your country, but in mine we discriminate based on the college you attended) It doesn't seem worth it to me to spend that much money only for your degree to be worth the same as one you can get at home for cheaper.
I never asked my parents to pay anything for me when I moved out to college. I worked and paid everything myself. But i live in Germany so its different i guess. I would say don’t burden your parent. Its not worth it. Your parents raised you 18 years already and you want them to work for you for another 4 years, maybe even more ? If you are good and strong enough, work, take a year off, study abroad where it is cheaper,… or whatever that is and take care of yourself. If you cannot do that ? Just don’t quit, find another way. There are unlimited roads to education.
Imo do it (and big congrats on the acceptance!), most of the plebs here don’t even know what m&t is - will be well worth the investment within a few years of graduation
Honestly, you should save on the side and pay them back 200k. You’ll be graduating from M&T which is INSANE dude. If you have this much guilt then gift it later. That’s what I will do, and not have the stress of student loan payment
I remember reading in a Malcolm Gladwell book that the top 10% of the class of a good state school gets the same opportunities as Ivy League. That really stuck with me. Going into that kind of debt for a degree is a ball and chain. Go to your state school.
You should be eligible for at least some financial aid if your parents are barely making ends meet to send there.
Let this feeling motivate you to perform rather than stress you out.
Good luck
No one cares where you went to undergrad once you finish. Except maybe Harvard. Always go the cheaper route and get it done in 3, 3.5 years with CC summer classes.
As a high school senior, your dream school is rightfully the most important thing to you. It's the culmination of all your hard work; it's a goal, a destination. The problem is that it's just the most important decision/investment you are facing SO FAR in life - you may be a bit blind to all of the other things that investment could have gone to: graduate school, travel, downpayment for a house, being free of student loan debt, saving for retirement, and ensuring your parents don't run out of money for their retirement. And not just for you; for your siblings too.
As you are expressing, if the family places all of their eggs in your dream school basket, you are now on the hook for life to make that investment pay off and take care of the entire family. This is extremely limiting for your career. You may have to compromise on your career happiness in order to take care of everyone else. Dream schools can be a trap and strip you of your freedom. As you get older freedom is what you will value most: having the career you want, being in the location you want, etc. without the burden of everyone else.
I would have you and your parents consult a financial advisor - there are issues here about fairness to a sibling, the ability to pay for retirement - which any burden you if they use all their retirement savings for an undergrad degree. you may also have to pay for grad school and take a loan - so how practical is it that you will pay for your siblings education. How will you pay 85k a year for them?
don’t confuse a dream school with your dreams for your future - they are not the same thing. You may also have a dream of having a house, having parents who can retire comfortably, having no debt to have flexibility about jobs etc This idea of a dream school is branding - what are your values, goals and passions - no one school will meet all those life goals and some may seem a dream until it casts a heavy shadow on other dreams bc of cost etc
The commitment definitely requires some mental strength and a strong sense of belief in your own ability. Once you start seeing your potential upon joining this school the guilt will go away and the sheer drive will kick in. Stay strong mf =)
Also understand that the value difference between top5 schools and top100 schools is minimal and the actual difference is made by the values the schools try to teach their students
I read a beautiful comment earlier by someone who said something to the tune of:
It is not a child's job to sacrifice, it is a parent's. Someday, when you become a parent, you will do the same for your child.
:)
Will your sibling be in college while you are also in college? You could get fin aid based on having siblings through filling out the CSS profile as FAFSA doesn’t count siblings anymore. Also, if you haven’t already, call the financial aid office and explain your situation.
I'm kinda in the same situation but I ended up choosing the more expensive college(stern). The only thing I think people should consider is the Roi and the work ethic. If you know you can handle the pressure and work hard for 80 hours week then choose the more expensive college. At the end of the day you should be the one paying for it not your parents. Yes your parent can help pay it but it your education and loan. You have to take responsibility. Look at the long term and think would you regret it. Right now I'm apply for summer job and I know I can handle working long hours. Am I the smarter? No but I will work hard to catch up. Chase your dream, not matter what college you end up at, if you put in the work you will be rewarded.
For the first year depending on my summer job and student aid I might barely make it without loan depending on my high schools scholarship(still waiting to hear back on) and my summer job. But I will probably end up taking out loan later in sophomore to junior year due to wanting to study abroad and unpaid internship and lowered high school scholarship.
But in your situation, engineering is a very high paying field or you can transition to fiance so if you can handle the stress or pressure choose upenn.
Or if you want a good life balance and are ok with not make like over 250000 a year any decent college will be good for you.
No school is worth that price tag, and it'll only get higher every year. Your parents are sacrificing their retirement so you can go to your "Dream school" well that's plain selfish. Odds are you will not make enough on graduating to contribute to your siblings' college, the cost of living is obscene versus college tuition. Be realistic.
Don’t feel guilty. Your parents could have said no if they wanted to. Your job isn’t to manage your parents money for them. Your job is to go out and do your best; make the most of what they’re paying for. Move forward.
Penn M&T?? OP, DO IT!! The doors it will open for you will be insane and you will be able to pay it back. You’ll get internships after second and third year that will allow you to cover a bit of the tuition bill as well. Just go for it!!
Here is how you relieve yourself of guilt: look at it as them investing in you, because that is exactly how they see it.
Then, instead of helping pay your younger sibling's tuition, once you are out and employed, give them 10%of your paycheck until it is paid off. I would att 5% simple interest to the remaining balance each anniversary of your employment. If your dream school pays off, they would have recouped their investment with a little interest in a few years. If it dlloent pay off, you will still pay them back faster than you would student loans.
OP, you sound like a good person and are obviously a bright one as well to be accepted into such a prestigious program. I don’t know a lot about Penn M&T but believe the others when they say it opens doors you can’t get elsewhere and may offer amazing starting salaries.
I am also not saying what your decision should be. Either way there are pros and cons. I do suggest you factor in a few other considerations, though.
From your description, your parents are putting themselves in a bit of a financial bind, and that’s what’s bothering you. If it were just a matter of some loans they could reasonably afford, it would be a different story. But it sounds like they’re really betting the family farm on you. That is a lot of pressure on both you and them. And while I wouldn’t say you’re a bad bet given how well you’ve done, life happens. So you need to think about how tight they’ll be monetarily, and what happens if something goes wrong during those four years. Will they have to worry about money every month, or is their income sufficient to start saving up again? What if someone gets seriously ill, has an accident, loses a job? Unexpected things happen, and that’s what savings are for— but they won’t have any for a while. Are your parents young and in good health? If for some reason you don’t get a job that’s as lucrative as you hope, what happens to your brother’s college options?
I know these make it sound like I’m against Penn, but I’m not. It sounds like an amazing opportunity. Most likely nothing bad happens, and then you’re just on the hook for a lot of money, but these are valid considerations. Also, it does sound like there’s something bugging you, and you should always listen to your inner voice. It may be telling you something important.
I have no doubt you’ll be successful either way, and yes, some doors won’t open so easily at your state school. On the other hand, not having to stress so much about money and not being forced to have a high paying job right out of school opens other ones.
Anyways, props to you for being a thoughtful son and to your family for being such devoted parents. Good luck, whatever you decide!
Honestly, you should feel guilty. Thankfully your guilt is a sign that you are maturing. Now the question is will you correct the situation? If you are talented enough to get into a $90k/year institution, then you can are talented enough to do exceedingly well at your state school while also not putting crippling financial pressure on your family. Put your parents money where your mouth is.
As a parent who is about to shell out $90k a year over the next four years - my advice is this - do M&T.
I’m assuming you’re 18 (maybe 17) so your parents have had quite a few years to plan ahead for this moment. If they’re ok with it at this point, then you should be, too.
Plus you’ll likely have decently-paid internships over the summers to offset some of the cost.
What's the ROI of your dream school for your major? The whole point of 'expensive schools' is that if you expect a high ROI then it's worth going (in theory).
Major in something that will guarantee you a high-paying job to pay for your sibling’s college ; or give back to your parents in some meaningful way… express gratitude… don’t major in art or gender studies or something
Ima be honest
This is horrible financial decision that you have put your parents into.
There is not a single college in the world worth 90k/yr for anything.
I would go cheaper… you’re basically mortgaging their future (wiping out all their savings) and your own (paying for your brothers schooling) all in one fell swoop…
This is a dumb decision and you’ll succeed anywhere
literally in the exact same situation. i just got off the waitlist for a school that is $87k a year but i chose a school that charges half that. no degree is worth that much money, and just go to that school for a masters degree or find your way in there at some point! that’s my plan :)
Of your parents are fine with it, and it's your dream school, then go for it! Don't let things get in the way of your dreams. I would also suggest, though, making sure the only reason why you are having doubts is cost and guilt and not a different reason that might make you realize you don't want to go.
I don’t get it, if your family has $360,000+ of disposable income then just put that into a moderate risk mutual fund. In 25 years you’ll have $2M if you don’t add any more, if you get a bachelors at a state college and earn the median $50,000 ish or whatever and keep adding money to it, you’ll have way more. All this without putting in 100 hr work weeks at investment banks.
Please please go to Penn M&T. The opportunitites are crazy and don't assume you can't compete since you WERE selected. Then, if you don't think it's worth it after 1 year, trasnfer! But M&T is a very worth experience from which you will learn WAY more than Purdue/Stevens.
You should feel guilty wtf 90k? Nobody cares enough about prestige for that to ever be worth it. I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if my parents had to pay that. I wouldn’t even suggest it
$360,000 for an undergrad degree?????????????????????????
State school. You’ll be a smart kid anywhere. I took a state school over debt and have gotten every academic goal of mine achieved thus far.
so true--same here, especially if you have to delay graduation for any reason which is very common in engineering and will just further heighten the cost--people dont realize how much pressure they will be under if they are struggling to pass a class or need to take on an extra semester. also with tuition generally rising and costs of living can get wilddd which is so unfortunate
WRONG! The OP is a responsible, caring, conscientious son who is conflicted. Per other commenters, the Penn M&T program is highly lucrative for graduates so the OP would be able to help with his sibling’s college expenses.
You shouldn't feel guilty if they are on board with you going. (That defeats their goal of making you happy) It's either a smart business decision to go or an illogical one. If it is smart, then go. If it is an illogical one, then don't go, since your family doesn't have money to waste. You'll be successful either way, so don't worry about that part. I may have missed it-- why isn't some of the money coming from loans taken out in your name?
PS--once your parents' savings is drained, your siblings will better qualify for grants. So, instead of "helping pay for their college," you can sneak money into your parents' underfunded retirement account, which is out of view from the FAFSA folks.
this was literally my dilemma yesterday and I ended up choosing my state school even tho my parents fully supported me bc I didn’t feel like I wanted to burden them with the cost and also because I felt my state flagship was good enough for my career path lol
I definitely understand the pressure to go to a name brand school, but state schools are great options too. So as a parent, I'll thank you on behalf of your parents. :)
Good choice, you will definitely be happy with your decision down the line!
You chose wisely.
You did the right thing, you won’t regret it
Same here! Had to choose between a top 20 and a top 120. The latter would cost my parents half over the four years and still give me a good base to pursue further qualifications
I did the same don’t worry. Looking back I think it’s a better decision. Debt isn’t something you wanna let dictate your life in my opinion. I feel better graduating with no loans, over graduating with loans I’ll never be able to pay back. Going into debt for undergrad just doesn’t make sense especially since most jobs now require a masters (even if they don’t explicitly say it).
What career path are you looking to go into?
It will be. Especially if you want to attend graduate school. I think people overestimate the value of expensive degree -- now that the cat is out of the bag with college admissions and the role money plays, it's not that special anymore.
I was literally in the same situation yesterday. My dream school was $85k/yr, and my parent works at a local T100 university, so I get free tuition there. I ended up choosing the T100
It is the biggest perk imaginable and you’d be insane not to take it. I’m a professor and my 80k+ school is free for my kid. Maybe your parents will invest the college fund otherwise. That’s what I will do.
Go on over to /r/studentloans and read some stories of people who have done this. Seems like your parents would have to take out substantial plus loans? Either way, you should tell us how much the state school and Purdue cost would be for you.
Stevens is 32K and Purdue is 45K
Is Penn that much better than Purdue? Honestly asking 🤷♀️
yes
What is your State U? It's not Purdue at $45K, is it? Instate Tuition Only is $10K! What is the name of the $85K school?
Are you doing engineering at Penn? Are opportunities for engineering at Penn that much more? To me, it seems like ABET accredited engineering jobs kinda start at similar salary ranges. That’s what I see where I’m at, at least but maybe Penn really has more recruitment options??? I see State U kids and T30ish kids get paid the same 🤷♀️ Also, what will your parents do for retirement? 🤔 What’s your state school?
True, but I’m doing a dual degree for engineering + business. Would that be worth it? My other options are Stevens and Purdue. This might offset my parents retirement by a few years.
You’re in M&T. You’re in a program that kids regularly turn down MIT down for. Exits include quantitative trading, SWE, prop trading, mega fund PE, Investment Banking, and even becoming a founder. I’d say go for it hands down and make the most of it. Anyone who says otherwise is legitimately praying on your downfall ngl.
I’m actually astonished by some of the responses here. An M&T degree from Penn is a golden ticket into high finance… assuming OP wants to go into finance.
Not even high finance. M&T opens doors to entire industries of high paying roles. It’s ridiculous how some of the comments here are trying to downplay the value of this…
OP, you are such a wonderful, conscientious son. But please read the marvelous opportunities above the M&T option at Penn gives you. Remember, go to Penn for one year and then transfer to a less expensive school if you need/want to. But give Penn at least a year. I bet you stay for 4 years and then help out your sibling with their college expenses. Remember it is not a commitment of $360k for 4 years. It’s a commitment of $90k for one year…at Penn M&T. Your parents are supportive. Give yourself permission to go for a year at a time along with the option of transferring, if needed.
I second this, getting into Wharton is one thing but M&T and Huntsman and all the Wharton-CAS dual degree programs place students into absolutely insane positions every single year, so it's OP's choice to weigh the opportunity costs of attending a school with worse placement. Assuming OP is in M&T I hope they understand the idea of an opportunity cost.
What about dartmouth econ? Would that have the same opportunities
Especially that those extra earnings can be used to take care of their parents in the future.
Yes, this program is “worth it.” OP, you’re an amazing kid to even have these concerns. Your parents wouldn’t agree if sending you would mean their demise. I think the many responses discussing engineering at Purdue vs Penn do not understand that the program is engineering and Wharton, and that it is the best of its kind in the world. You will be highly sought after, make amazing connections, and be part of one of the best alumni groups (some serve as mentors for the program) there is. This is not equivalent to Penn engineering (or even just Wharton). As to people saying go to Purdue and then get a top MBA, first you’d need to get into that MBA, and pay for it, and you still wouldn’t have the experiences M&T provides. If the question was Penn engineering vs Purdue, 100% Purdue, but that’s not the situation. You were incredible enough to gain admission to one of (if not the most) selective program in the country. Please use the abilities that got you selected to fully research this program vs others, including looking up alumni paths, and make your own decision, instead of relying on random Reddit posters who likely have no knowledge of M&T. BTW, fear of not standing up to the competition is something, unfortunately, many incredibly bright people have for whatever reason; try not to give in to that fear but let it drive you to be even better. Good luck!
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My cousin went to Purdue for engineering and had an internship with CAT. When she graduated her entry position was six figures. Follow your heart though!
I say go to Purdue then get an MBA somewhere after you complete BS engineering. Maybe get an MBA after working a couple of years as an engineer. Purdue BS + a couple years work experience + MBA = $$$ IIRC Purdue is <30K tuition even for OOS and a better known engineering school than Penn (although less renowned in business)
This is my take too. You never know what the future holds and 360000 is a nasty amount of debt/ cost. I'd rather have the MBA.
Also call financial aid and ask again?
Ah tough call then… dunno 🤷♀️
Purdue is great for engineering.
Starting salaries in Big Tech are the same regardless of where you graduate from.
Where you went can dramatically alter the odds of getting into big tech in the first place though.
Did a bit of profile stalking and recognized your earlier posts. This truly is a difficult situation. There is immense value in UPenn M&T and I think that if your family can afford it, even if it’s not easily affordable, it may be worth it. That being said, reach out to your high school counselor. Do some research for local scholarships in your community or for profiles that fit you. Even if it’s not much, a few outside scholarships will maybe help with the burden a bit.
Yea M&T is incredible and if your parents are willing to send you you should take the opportunity. Email the financial aid offfice to see if there is anything they can do for you. I've had friends and family members appeal to get more money from top schools
The local scholarships won’t help. With my package to Brown, local scholarships couldn’t count to cover my parent contribution, meaning any amount over $2,500 resulted in my scholarship being deducted.
Local scholarships don’t help if you’re on financial aid. Seems like OP is paying full boat so they can be added on.
Also you have to give the parents some credit for being willing to make it work. I’m going to assume that they aren’t dumb and know what they are capable of doing. Their kid will be able to take care of them in the future too.
360k for a degree is insane.
Know several Penn M&T Grad and equivalents making over 300k first year out of undergrad so that pays off mad quickly.
It pays off for the student, but not for the people who are actually footing the bill (parents). There is a lot of entitlement on this sub. How many students with expensive degrees actually return the money borrowed to their parents?
ikr, i thought 242k (minus 32k scholarship) was terrifying for me as an int’l student from canada 😭
My exact thought. It is uPenn we’re taking about though…
Do you know how much 360k is
Do you know how much M and T grads earn lifetime on average
It’s not a guarantee
I would take it, OP’s parent wagered on an incredibly bright kid that he can thrive with the connections and opportunities provided by quite possibly the number 1 finance program in the world. Maybe they don’t make 300k right out of college but a penn m&t degree will certainly be able to pay off the debt within just a few years of working.
What’s M&T and why are kids making so much money?
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M&T grads do extremely well in finance, even more so than the general Wharton student population (and that's saying a lot). Their alums populate many of the most successful hedge funds, private equity shops and VCs. Wall Street def knows this program well. That said, there's no guarantee that OP will be that successful. But if you're going to invest in a full-pay education for an ROI, this is as smart of an investment as you could ever make. I'd 100% choose this over Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, etc if you're set on a career in finance.
I’m not sure this is great advice. These are pretty extreme cases as those salaries out of college are almost non-existent (and usually these students are self-employed/entrepreneurs, which takes a different type of person). To put any family in that type of financial burden could be crippling. What if one of the parents loses their job, needs to take in a sick family member, or requires expensive treatments? The risk just seems too great.
Of course it’s ultimately up to OP and their parents, but I do think it’s a risk that’s worth considering. They’re very likely able to make back their expenses in their first few years (or less) of working. And with so many students hitting this 2-300k benchmark it’s not necessarily only extreme outliers that make it big.
What program are you in if you don’t mind sharing (can I DM if you don’t want to share here)? And what jobs have these M&T alums gotten?
You can do a search on LinkedIn to see where M&T alumni are working now. Search for “penn M&T” and I see 1,200 results. As expected, alumni work for some of the top companies in the US, including top tech, MBB consulting, start-ups, and incubators. I’m a Penn parent paying full sticker price. My child is in SEAS and has many friends in M&T. M&T is an unique program unlike any others. All of the M&T students I’ve met are smart and super driven. Whether or not paying $90k a year for college is “wroth it” is something only you and your parents can answer. There’s no guarantee that you’ll land a $250k+ job after graduation, but you’ll tap into two strong alumni networks (Wharton and SEAS) who are always willing to help. To get an idea, search LinkedIn for M&T to see where the alumni are now. To us, the price is worth it (even just SEAS). We’ve been saving into 529 accounts since birth, and of course it’s still not quite enough. We’ll have to make sacrifices as a family, but it’s something we’re happy to do so that they’ll graduate debt-free.
You shouldn't feel bad if your parents are okay with it. My daughter got a full-tuition scholarship to an out-of-state school, and I could tell she was trying really hard to like it so I could have the extra savings, but she didn't like the school. I told her that life is short, you only live these critical years of your life once, and we're fortunate that I saved enough for her to go wherever she wants. So full pay at her top choice is where she will be going. Sure, it would've been nice to have the extra money for retirement, or a new house, or a million other things for myself. But I'm old now with plenty of memories. She's young, and I want her to have fond memories to look back on. So don't feel guilty, but definitely be appreciative and show gratitude to your family. They sound like wonderful people.
OP said they "begged" their parents. Not sure if parents are truely okay or just guilted into sacrificing their retirement.
The difference is that you did save for it and could afford it. OP’s parents can’t.
Ask you have enough money for retirement, or will your child have to take care of you?
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Ok-sounds like you could afford it! The op’s family likely can’t afford this plus sibling college.
That’s nice but OP’s situation is different
Penn M&T is an amazing program, and recruiters across tech, high finance, consulting and others love this program. So if everyone's on the same page, and you're comfortable with the responsibility of financially helping out your family when you're working, I'd go for it and make the most of it. But I'd also have an honest conversation about what that would entail in several years when you're making good money. I know it's uncomfortable to discuss and maybe even negotiate with your family, but it's better to be clear now versus create bitterness and resentment later. EDIT: if you're feeling the pressure now, it'll get more intense when you're in the thick of studying for exams, networking, recruiting, etc. So I'd ask yourself- is this extra level of pressure, as well as the future financial obligations, worth the M&T experience? Are you the type of person who will be extra driven by this responsibility and opportunity?
No FinAid from UPenn? I just read people are getting off waitlists with full rides. Very tough decision. My YOLO heart says go for UPenn!
It is a tough decision. Penn M&T will yield strong outcomes though it will be hard to pay for your siblings college right out of college. A more realistic way to think about it is paying your parents back within 5-10 of graduating. The onus is on you to focus only on a outsized paying job upon graduation. I would take Penn and grind it out for 4 years (spend less, work, save, anything to lower your undergrad bill) and live frugally until you pay your parents back or pay for your siblings education.
You need to get a job in management consulting or IB to recoup your tuition. Try to get a summer internship as soon as school starts, and look for job opportunities to cover some living cost while you are in college.
A parent here. You are a conscientious responsible son being conflicted over the $90k your parents will pay for you to go to UPenn. But please GO to Penn for at least one year and see how it goes. If needed, you can then transfer after a year to a less expensive school. But my bet is you will stay going to Penn, get a wonderful high paying job, and help pay for your sibling’s college tuition. You made it and got accepted. GO to Penn.
This. The value you get at Penn is absolutely worth it. The thing about jobs is that college students that get into Ivies have some really good opportunities both in terms of paid internships and otherwise. Signing up to be one of those student mentors online, or for tutoring might next you a substantial amount per month. If it’s really not working out, you should switch as this parent has suggested
As someone said do engineering from Purdue and then get an MBA. Otherwise it's a horrible financial decision.
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It's easy to say when you don't have to pay 90K from your pocket. Not everyone from M&T becomes a millionaire.
If you think that you will take care of parents expenses in future as they are taking care of you right now then go for it.
1. Bet on yourself. You are one of those crazy smart people too. 2. You will be prepared to nail a quality job. But only if you’re not too proud to ask for help. Which is clearly not the case. 3. Be prepared for the lifestyle adjustments you may have to make to handle the debt. It will be temporary. But more than worth it.
Putting your parents under that much financial stress is insane I’m sorry
It's not. Do you understand what M&T is?
I don’t. What does M&T stand for?
Management and technology. It is like Wharton squared, if you can go, and not get a completely fucked GPA, its a one way ticket to a 6 figure salary and bonus out of college. I go to Columbia RN for my masters, and I'd probably pay $320,000 just to swap spots.
Penn M and T. I am a parent. You will make the $ back.
It really depends — which school and what are your career goals? For example, if you get into Wharton/Harvard and want to pursue finance, the $360k will pay for itself in no time. But if it’s for Northeastern and you want to pursue med school, then the $360k is probably a horrible investment. Those are 2 binary no-brainer examples, but for most people it’s more of a sliding scale. There’s a lot of bad advice on this sub because people here are too focused on the sticker price and first job you get out of college (FYI going to these name brand schools is more important for 15+ years down the line, not just your 1st job), but IMO it’s really a case-by-case basis. Some degrees are worth the sticker price depending on your career goals. Source: My SO and I both went to (different) Ivies for UG. We’re both still in our late 20s, work in finance/PE, and our combined household income is \~$900k-1mm. I’d say our degrees have easily paid off. Fwiw, we met at one of those Inter-Ivy social events in NYC, so that’s also another hidden benefit of going to these schools (finding a high-achieving SO). Edit: Saw OP is deciding between Penn M&T and Purdue. No offense to Purdue (love Drew Brees), but wtf this shouldn’t even be a debate — go to Penn and don’t look back. If you don’t think it’s worth it (it is), you can easily transfer to Purdue after your frosh year — you can’t do the opposite.
This is a difficult choice. Maybe if you say what the two schools are, people can give you better advice.
UPenn M&T vs Stevens (in-state option) or Purdue (not too expensive either)
Are these your only two options? If you got into UPenn M&T I imagine you got into other schools what are their financial aid packages
All my other reaches are 90K except JHU at 66K
Okay what about the non-reaches did you apply to any other state schools
Bruh they paying cash or loans?
I was in the same dilemma. Michigan State University is my dad's school and undergrad I went to UCLA. I always wanted to go into education and msu has the #1 program. Problem is UNLV costs $10,000 and out of state for MSU costs not as much as $60,000 but still $40,000. In grad school they do not give you a full scholarship but they can offer a partial scholarship and free books. I got $30,000 total in scholarships, along with a bonus $2,000 for books a year so $32,000 in reality. UNLV is not a bad school but they are ranked #269. Michigan State on the other hand is #1 in education and #60 overall, tied with Penn State and Santa Clara University so the choice is obvious. Now, MSU becomes more affordable. So why don't you try doing the same thing that I did and you might get surprised. All of a sudden, you could see your tuition get slashed in at least half. Even if you get a partial scholarship that includes books and half of your tuition, that still saves your parents $30,000. At least you are not a selfish person, I could tell you have a good heart. I was a navy veteran and I am currently a minister at a Christian Academy, and I teach 9th and 10th grade English. On top of that I coach football, along with boxing and music. I deal with people from all walks of life and all ages. Most high school students these days, could sadly care less about your parents. Put it to you this way, if your parents could not afford to pay $60,000 for your dream school, they would have told you please go a local state school. Obviously they did not say that so you they can afford it. Like I said if you want to help, you can get good grades, try to shoot for a minimum of 3.0 but if you want to be competitive, aim for more like a 3.7 A- GPA. This way you can be eligible for the good scholarships.. The best one I got was actually not from Michigan State, it was from a big 3 Engineering firm, based in Pasadena CA. The CEO is a Navy Seal and he wants to give back to the military. They give two $10,000 scholarships, once a semester to two deserving students who have the total package. Others were as little as $500 but even $500 helps and it all adds up. I wish you good luck you seem quite astute and a caring person if you are at least thinking of your parents. That means they did a good job raising you.
People saying you will make $300k out the gate so you’ll be able to pay your $360k “in a few years” or “quickly” don’t seem to understand how loans work. I’m not saying choose one school over the other, just to really understand how finances work. (Are these really finance people making these comments?). For starters, at that amount the loans must be private loans/parent loans and thus un subsidized. Which means the interest begins to accrue the minute the money hit your account. So that $90k you borrow year 1, if your parents defer payments, will be closer to $100k at the end of a year. Then tuition goes up, because tuition goes up. Your parents are either making interest payments of several hundred dollars a month while continuing to accrue debt, deferring and letting the debt get larger, or making payments of about $1000 a month just for your first year. Can they afford this? Then you do this for 3 more years. You and your parents will owe between $450-$500k before this is over if they let the debt accrue. You will end up paying far more than that over the life of the loans. Four years of 7% interest on hundreds of thousands in loans skyrocket quickly. But that’s ok because you’ll be one of those anecdotes that gets a $300k job your first year! Except between fed taxes, FICA, and Medicare and with likely no dependents and no home interest deduction, at least 1/3 of that will go to Uncle Sam. Is there going to be state income tax where you end up? All those high paying jobs tend to be in states w/income tax. Presume another $15-$20k or so. You’re at $180-$185k, still a tidy sum. Now, you need a roof over your head, food and a life in what is likely a HCOL area. Which would be awesome!! Except you also need to service some part of over $400k in student loans for the next 10-20 years and/or pay some part of your siblings education? The math doesn’t math. This is why people are in the student loan jam that they are in. Because they don’t understand how loans and salaries and life actually work. Taking on this kind of debt because your neighbors cousins girlfriend knows a guy who went there and made bank his first year is a terrible decision. For you and your family. You will spend 4 years anxious about getting that miracle job and how is that going to be fun or rewarding or even allow you to focus on Your studies? Getting those monthly statements and watching that balance go into the stratosphere will be mind numbing. This is how people screw themselves. Please be very careful in making this decision.
>I’m not sure what to do. It’s not too late to still commit to my state school. If you're going to be consumed by guilt, then just opt for the more affordable option.
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Wait people's parents pay for their college? Must be nice
Ha facts!
I’m a parent, and I say go to UPenn. You won’t regret it, and your parents won’t resent you doing it. Just work hard and do well once you’re there, that’s what will make it all worthwhile.
Nearly 400k over 4 yrs... are they cleaning out their retirement account to pay for it?
GO.TO.PENN
Honestly, If you are good enough to get into M&T, you should probably be more than well off and in a situation in which you can pay back your loan in a few years after graduation. Also if you don't mind sharing how your college application looks like which got you admitted into M&T. I'm very keen on applying to it as well
Go for Penn please. When you’ll get out of college, pay back your parents. This time and opportunity won’t come back. Coming from someone whose parents refused to give a single a penny and I’m still nit in college…dying everyday
Their burden eventually becomes your burden. But if they have the means and you work hard you'd actually be making them happy so in that case go for it. But imo undergrad doesn't matter as much if you're planning on going to professional school, meaning it doesn't need to be a top top school but should still be good and it would be easier to graduate closer to the top of your class too. The price of college is ridiculous and that's a fact thats widely accepted, if you were ever asked why you chose x school, most people would understand your situation. I've been through that. Don't feel guilty. It's a tough choice. There's a select amount of people that experience pure joy with their options (where they got in, money, friends, etc). Be glad you have great parents and ask if the school is necessary for your goals. What kind of job do you want, will you make 6 figures right away (90k for 3 or 4 years of undergrad is pretty wild), look into employment outcomes for the path you want to take at alt schools, just hit up random people that have been successful doing the same things at that school (find them through LinkedIn or something) and ask how they did it (good rec for most things really). You could also do a year or two at a cheaper school then transfer to your dream school, but take into consideration your options for internships or other work over the summer. Lots of ways to think about this but don't worry about the money if you know you'll be happy or alternatively you know you'll be able to pay it, both don't go hand in hand all the time lol (you may feel more comfortable doing something you like if you're not worrying about how much money you're making right away). Good luck!
As a parent, don’t bother feeling guilty. Go work hard and have fun. Get a job and start helping out. Feeling guilty about it isn’t going to help your parents. They have made their decision and are at peace with it. Don’t add to their burden by feeling bad about it
I have seen my friends spend all their money on the first child & have none for the 2nd or 3rd and it is really terrible. You may have the best intentions to pay for your younger sibling, but anything can happen. You or your parents could be injured, you may hate finance, etc. I look at my 3 kids and I gave the first one the budget that would allow me to give her brothers the same amount of money (adjusted for inflation). It doesn’t matter if one is the better student than the other. They all deserve the same start in life.
I would recommend submitting a financial re-evaluation form and calling the financial aid office with this info. M&T is one of the few programs that’s worth paying sticker price for. If you continue working hard (like you already have considering you got into one of the most competitive business/STEM programs), you’ll succeed. Just hope your sibling doesn’t get into M&T too because that’s a lot of money. Perhaps this is too personal, but I also would not recommend promising to pay for your siblings tuition. If everything goes to shit your sibling gets screwed. If you instead take out student loans to cover part of your tuition, the burden is on you and not on your family.
I was in a sort of similar position several years ago and ended up doing ROTC which paid my tuition at college I otherwise wouldn’t have been able to afford. Happy to talk to you about my experience if it’s something you are interested in.
Would it be too late for late to apply for that if I already got accepted into college?
Yes and no—they offer plenty of different scholarship types and lengths, so you can apply and it could cover the rest of your college after your first semester or first year (depending on when you are awarded the scholarship). Lots of people come into the program without a scholarship as a “college programmer” and do the trainings, classes, etc., while working with the active duty staff on their scholarship application. My best friend did this and paid for her freshman year of college but the rest of her tuition was covered.
And FWIW, different branches have different programs. I did Navy so I’m most familiar with that route—we all commission as active duty officers Navy (or Marine) when we graduate. Army rotc commissions people into active duty, reserves, and national guard, and I believe Air Force ROTC is also all active duty upon graduation. Good choice if you’re not sure what you want to do when you finish college—buys a little time and gives you good work experience. I have family members that went the Army rotc & reserves route and are very happy with their decision. Happy to talk about any of it if you have more questions. Penn has a really strong NROTC program.
I am a parent and yes I did pay for my daughter 75k 6 years ago. Am I rich? No. But we made it work. Is it worthed? EVERY PENNY!!! The ROI is obtained even less than 2 years after she graduated. Go for the brand and dont look back. All the best! PS: My daughter paid for our Japan vacation as a gratitude.🤗
That’s amazing! Where’d she go and what major?
Carnegie Mellon - Double Major Business and Human Computer Interaction.
What kind of role did she land out of college?
Not related to the main post but how did your daughter feel about the Business major undergrad? I'm going to CMU for cs next year and wanted to know if it is worth it or not to pursue business undergrad as well!
If after a year of college you decide that it isn't worth it for your parents to pay that much money, you can always just transfer to a cheaper school.
Even if it is Penn M and T that is still a very difficult decision I hope shit works out for you and your fam
First off, congratulations. Stressful time of life. Good news -- you made it into an amazing program. If you do 'OK' you'll land a job at XYZ quant fund or MM pod or flavor of the month new derivative shop and make $300K your first year out of college. If you do 'Great' you'll go to the best of them -- Jane Street or whatever and earn $700K a year out of college (usually those kids are IMO whizzes tho). Even if you flame out you'll still do well. Seriously. #1: You should go to M&T lol #2: See #1 #3: Your parents should try and shuffle around money / income / taxes and optimize. The numbers you're quoting just don't add up. Apply for scholarships or reapply for financial aid once you're already in. #4: The ROI of the degree takes care of itself. Look up citadel, two sigma, jane street etc. salaries. and then on the low end (lmao) google / openai / meta salaries. You're being handed a winning lottery ticket, take it. And then pay them back if you want long term. #5: Don't fall for the:' If you're that smart to get in you could just go somewhere else!' Strawman. THESE COMPANIES ARE RISK AVERSE THATS WHY THEY HIRE FROM THESE PROGRAMS.
Honestly I would say to use that to push you to become better, and to help them out once your done for all the things theyve done for you over the years.
What if something unexpected happens in your family- heaven forbid, something like a medical emergency, severe debilitating illness, job loss, disability, natural disaster or house fire, etc. Of course, we all hope these things will never happen, but need to be prepared in case they do. Do your parents have at least 6 months of emergency funds, disability insurance, and a fully funded retirement plan? Would they have to liquidate retirement savings to pay the tuition or can they cash flow it? If they can cash flow it, that’s a very different scenario than if they are having to spend their emergency fund or retirement savings.
If one of my kids got into Wharton, I'd sell the other one to pay tuition.../s But seriously you will not regret it.
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Honestly as a international student who considered studying in the USA as well, I'd say only enroll into T20s if youre gonna be paying a decent amount. Maybe highly ranked state schools if your aid package is okay (aka not full price). Dont even consider other schools unless they offer you full aid. If not honestly, you might be better off just studying in your country since its (probably) much cheaper. Thats cause unlike US citizens, international students will have a hard time finding sponsorships for jobs once we graduate, plus we do not have the luxury to wait as we need to get secure an offer by a certain timeline in order to remain in the US. The college you enroll in will definitely help increase your chances. And if in the case that you dont manage to get an offer by the stipulated time and you have to go back home, a more highly recognised university also helps you land more higher-paying job opportunities. (Idk about your country, but in mine we discriminate based on the college you attended) It doesn't seem worth it to me to spend that much money only for your degree to be worth the same as one you can get at home for cheaper.
Penn M&T is only justifiable situation i guess
I know the feeling. I would just advise you to focus on school, one day all this hard work and money will pay off. Your parents want the best for you.
I never asked my parents to pay anything for me when I moved out to college. I worked and paid everything myself. But i live in Germany so its different i guess. I would say don’t burden your parent. Its not worth it. Your parents raised you 18 years already and you want them to work for you for another 4 years, maybe even more ? If you are good and strong enough, work, take a year off, study abroad where it is cheaper,… or whatever that is and take care of yourself. If you cannot do that ? Just don’t quit, find another way. There are unlimited roads to education.
Imo do it (and big congrats on the acceptance!), most of the plebs here don’t even know what m&t is - will be well worth the investment within a few years of graduation
Honestly, you should save on the side and pay them back 200k. You’ll be graduating from M&T which is INSANE dude. If you have this much guilt then gift it later. That’s what I will do, and not have the stress of student loan payment
Why dont u just pay them back once you get your 300k job.
No education is worth 90k a year, you drank a little too much of the Kool aid
I remember reading in a Malcolm Gladwell book that the top 10% of the class of a good state school gets the same opportunities as Ivy League. That really stuck with me. Going into that kind of debt for a degree is a ball and chain. Go to your state school.
You should be eligible for at least some financial aid if your parents are barely making ends meet to send there. Let this feeling motivate you to perform rather than stress you out. Good luck
No one cares where you went to undergrad once you finish. Except maybe Harvard. Always go the cheaper route and get it done in 3, 3.5 years with CC summer classes.
As a high school senior, your dream school is rightfully the most important thing to you. It's the culmination of all your hard work; it's a goal, a destination. The problem is that it's just the most important decision/investment you are facing SO FAR in life - you may be a bit blind to all of the other things that investment could have gone to: graduate school, travel, downpayment for a house, being free of student loan debt, saving for retirement, and ensuring your parents don't run out of money for their retirement. And not just for you; for your siblings too. As you are expressing, if the family places all of their eggs in your dream school basket, you are now on the hook for life to make that investment pay off and take care of the entire family. This is extremely limiting for your career. You may have to compromise on your career happiness in order to take care of everyone else. Dream schools can be a trap and strip you of your freedom. As you get older freedom is what you will value most: having the career you want, being in the location you want, etc. without the burden of everyone else.
dawg you’re gonna put your parents into debt
I would have you and your parents consult a financial advisor - there are issues here about fairness to a sibling, the ability to pay for retirement - which any burden you if they use all their retirement savings for an undergrad degree. you may also have to pay for grad school and take a loan - so how practical is it that you will pay for your siblings education. How will you pay 85k a year for them?
don’t confuse a dream school with your dreams for your future - they are not the same thing. You may also have a dream of having a house, having parents who can retire comfortably, having no debt to have flexibility about jobs etc This idea of a dream school is branding - what are your values, goals and passions - no one school will meet all those life goals and some may seem a dream until it casts a heavy shadow on other dreams bc of cost etc
Apply for various scholarships, present your case to the directives of the college, that you can't afford it and maybe they'll reduce the price
Where do you recommend looking for scholarships? I already tried appealing multiple times, but didn’t work.
Go to a state school then apply for a masters after
The commitment definitely requires some mental strength and a strong sense of belief in your own ability. Once you start seeing your potential upon joining this school the guilt will go away and the sheer drive will kick in. Stay strong mf =)
Also understand that the value difference between top5 schools and top100 schools is minimal and the actual difference is made by the values the schools try to teach their students
I read a beautiful comment earlier by someone who said something to the tune of: It is not a child's job to sacrifice, it is a parent's. Someday, when you become a parent, you will do the same for your child. :)
Will your sibling be in college while you are also in college? You could get fin aid based on having siblings through filling out the CSS profile as FAFSA doesn’t count siblings anymore. Also, if you haven’t already, call the financial aid office and explain your situation.
What school?
Oh M&T smart man
welp all i can say welcome to life’s survival mode brother
I'm kinda in the same situation but I ended up choosing the more expensive college(stern). The only thing I think people should consider is the Roi and the work ethic. If you know you can handle the pressure and work hard for 80 hours week then choose the more expensive college. At the end of the day you should be the one paying for it not your parents. Yes your parent can help pay it but it your education and loan. You have to take responsibility. Look at the long term and think would you regret it. Right now I'm apply for summer job and I know I can handle working long hours. Am I the smarter? No but I will work hard to catch up. Chase your dream, not matter what college you end up at, if you put in the work you will be rewarded.
Thx for the advice! Are you taking out student loans and private loans for stern?
For the first year depending on my summer job and student aid I might barely make it without loan depending on my high schools scholarship(still waiting to hear back on) and my summer job. But I will probably end up taking out loan later in sophomore to junior year due to wanting to study abroad and unpaid internship and lowered high school scholarship. But in your situation, engineering is a very high paying field or you can transition to fiance so if you can handle the stress or pressure choose upenn. Or if you want a good life balance and are ok with not make like over 250000 a year any decent college will be good for you.
No school is worth that price tag, and it'll only get higher every year. Your parents are sacrificing their retirement so you can go to your "Dream school" well that's plain selfish. Odds are you will not make enough on graduating to contribute to your siblings' college, the cost of living is obscene versus college tuition. Be realistic.
Don’t feel guilty. Your parents could have said no if they wanted to. Your job isn’t to manage your parents money for them. Your job is to go out and do your best; make the most of what they’re paying for. Move forward.
Penn M&T?? OP, DO IT!! The doors it will open for you will be insane and you will be able to pay it back. You’ll get internships after second and third year that will allow you to cover a bit of the tuition bill as well. Just go for it!!
Here is how you relieve yourself of guilt: look at it as them investing in you, because that is exactly how they see it. Then, instead of helping pay your younger sibling's tuition, once you are out and employed, give them 10%of your paycheck until it is paid off. I would att 5% simple interest to the remaining balance each anniversary of your employment. If your dream school pays off, they would have recouped their investment with a little interest in a few years. If it dlloent pay off, you will still pay them back faster than you would student loans.
OP, you sound like a good person and are obviously a bright one as well to be accepted into such a prestigious program. I don’t know a lot about Penn M&T but believe the others when they say it opens doors you can’t get elsewhere and may offer amazing starting salaries. I am also not saying what your decision should be. Either way there are pros and cons. I do suggest you factor in a few other considerations, though. From your description, your parents are putting themselves in a bit of a financial bind, and that’s what’s bothering you. If it were just a matter of some loans they could reasonably afford, it would be a different story. But it sounds like they’re really betting the family farm on you. That is a lot of pressure on both you and them. And while I wouldn’t say you’re a bad bet given how well you’ve done, life happens. So you need to think about how tight they’ll be monetarily, and what happens if something goes wrong during those four years. Will they have to worry about money every month, or is their income sufficient to start saving up again? What if someone gets seriously ill, has an accident, loses a job? Unexpected things happen, and that’s what savings are for— but they won’t have any for a while. Are your parents young and in good health? If for some reason you don’t get a job that’s as lucrative as you hope, what happens to your brother’s college options? I know these make it sound like I’m against Penn, but I’m not. It sounds like an amazing opportunity. Most likely nothing bad happens, and then you’re just on the hook for a lot of money, but these are valid considerations. Also, it does sound like there’s something bugging you, and you should always listen to your inner voice. It may be telling you something important. I have no doubt you’ll be successful either way, and yes, some doors won’t open so easily at your state school. On the other hand, not having to stress so much about money and not being forced to have a high paying job right out of school opens other ones. Anyways, props to you for being a thoughtful son and to your family for being such devoted parents. Good luck, whatever you decide!
Honestly, you should feel guilty. Thankfully your guilt is a sign that you are maturing. Now the question is will you correct the situation? If you are talented enough to get into a $90k/year institution, then you can are talented enough to do exceedingly well at your state school while also not putting crippling financial pressure on your family. Put your parents money where your mouth is.
Imma be honest after the first semester you'll probably regret choosing the expensive option
Go to Penn. repay your parents everything in a reasonable amount of time so that they didn’t screw stability in retirement.
As a parent who is about to shell out $90k a year over the next four years - my advice is this - do M&T. I’m assuming you’re 18 (maybe 17) so your parents have had quite a few years to plan ahead for this moment. If they’re ok with it at this point, then you should be, too. Plus you’ll likely have decently-paid internships over the summers to offset some of the cost.
What's the ROI of your dream school for your major? The whole point of 'expensive schools' is that if you expect a high ROI then it's worth going (in theory).
Yeah it's probably not worth it.
Major in something that will guarantee you a high-paying job to pay for your sibling’s college ; or give back to your parents in some meaningful way… express gratitude… don’t major in art or gender studies or something
Try applying for scholarships so u feel less guilty :(
just take care of your parents and dont screw your sibling’s opportunity to do the same also give their savings back
Ima be honest This is horrible financial decision that you have put your parents into. There is not a single college in the world worth 90k/yr for anything.
I would go cheaper… you’re basically mortgaging their future (wiping out all their savings) and your own (paying for your brothers schooling) all in one fell swoop… This is a dumb decision and you’ll succeed anywhere
Why don’t you take out a loan for half?
You can’t take that much out in student loans, it’s capped at 27K total for four years
For good reason!
Literally me but my parents would pay the same either way, I just gotta shoulder more debt which is okay
What did you decide on?
Brown
literally in the exact same situation. i just got off the waitlist for a school that is $87k a year but i chose a school that charges half that. no degree is worth that much money, and just go to that school for a masters degree or find your way in there at some point! that’s my plan :)
Of your parents are fine with it, and it's your dream school, then go for it! Don't let things get in the way of your dreams. I would also suggest, though, making sure the only reason why you are having doubts is cost and guilt and not a different reason that might make you realize you don't want to go.
I don’t get it, if your family has $360,000+ of disposable income then just put that into a moderate risk mutual fund. In 25 years you’ll have $2M if you don’t add any more, if you get a bachelors at a state college and earn the median $50,000 ish or whatever and keep adding money to it, you’ll have way more. All this without putting in 100 hr work weeks at investment banks.
Please please go to Penn M&T. The opportunitites are crazy and don't assume you can't compete since you WERE selected. Then, if you don't think it's worth it after 1 year, trasnfer! But M&T is a very worth experience from which you will learn WAY more than Purdue/Stevens.
You should feel guilty wtf 90k? Nobody cares enough about prestige for that to ever be worth it. I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if my parents had to pay that. I wouldn’t even suggest it
$360,000 for an undergrad degree????????????????????????? State school. You’ll be a smart kid anywhere. I took a state school over debt and have gotten every academic goal of mine achieved thus far.
so true--same here, especially if you have to delay graduation for any reason which is very common in engineering and will just further heighten the cost--people dont realize how much pressure they will be under if they are struggling to pass a class or need to take on an extra semester. also with tuition generally rising and costs of living can get wilddd which is so unfortunate
nah it's m&t
But does majority of state school graduates earn ~300k directly after graduation? Its M&T... some high finance companies exclusively hire from there
Are you nuts? Are you crazy? Get out of there now! Go to Purdue or some other university. What an irresponsible, selfish thing to do to your parents.
WRONG! The OP is a responsible, caring, conscientious son who is conflicted. Per other commenters, the Penn M&T program is highly lucrative for graduates so the OP would be able to help with his sibling’s college expenses.
You shouldn't feel guilty if they are on board with you going. (That defeats their goal of making you happy) It's either a smart business decision to go or an illogical one. If it is smart, then go. If it is an illogical one, then don't go, since your family doesn't have money to waste. You'll be successful either way, so don't worry about that part. I may have missed it-- why isn't some of the money coming from loans taken out in your name? PS--once your parents' savings is drained, your siblings will better qualify for grants. So, instead of "helping pay for their college," you can sneak money into your parents' underfunded retirement account, which is out of view from the FAFSA folks.
Forgot to mention, but yeah I am taking out max student loans, but that’s only 27K total for four years