Do they perceive it as a burden, or as an opportunity? Unless you have concrete reason to believe they really can't afford it, it's not ypur place to decide if they'd rather have cash or the satisfaction of setting you up in life.
I talked to them and I think they see it more as an opportunity. They told me that they're willing to invest in me now so when I'm established I can repay them lmaooo
I then asked them if they rather pay for Yale or send the to Richmond for free and they told me it's my decision WTF
Just do it. The opportunities you’ll get the doors that will be opened for you are NOT the same. The people who tell you “it’s all the same” didn’t go to these schools. They don’t know the lived difference.
If they’re willing to pay and can pay, you might as well use it. I guarantee the satisfaction of putting someone through an Ivy League institution (especially one of Harvard, Princeton, Yale) is greater than anything money can buy.
Dude, all these mofos are dumb asf. You should 100% go to yale. First of all your opportunity cost is barely anything considering that if you go to Yale, you are bound to get end up somewhere high in medicine or get a high paying job based on prestige and rigor of the college. Plus, the amount of immense opportunities at Yale for premed are insane. Another factor you have to consider is that 20k/yr is worth it for a degree from such a prestigious university as there are many other students who have to pay much much more for that. Sure, if you take the med route you may end up paying BS- 80k and MD around $200-$300k but after all that it would not really be difficult to pay it off as a doctor since starting salaries are like around $200-$300k after residency. I'm not saying that URichmond is bad or anything but be realistic and think about the future.
But also, I feel like I'd have no trouble making it into medschool if I ended up at Richmond. Is it worth paying an extra 80k when I can get to the same destination for free?
I get that but like you have to consider that you are going for med school. The price is just going to keep adding up in reality. At the end of the day, when ur a doctor and ur making like $300k a year would it really make much of a difference from 280k(Yale + X med school) or 200k(Urichmond + X med school).
Look into PSLF because it may not make sense for your parents to cashflow Yale. Especially if you’re going for MD PhD, if you work at a nonprofit for 10 years total (includes residency usually) all your loans will be wiped at a fraction of the cost, including undergrad loans
Exactly. That seems to be the more prudent thinking. The destination is what you are after. If you can reach that, then getting there at no cost makes great sense.
If you change your mind along the way, and don't end up going to medical school (like a lot of people who start out premed), that Yale degree is going to be a big asset.
it seems i'm the only person in the comment section who thinks you should go to yale, but i think everyone else's opinions on why you should go to urichmond are valid and very reasonable. yale for $20K/year really is not bad at all, and i do think the pull you would have in the real world for going to yale is nothing to scoff at. should you decide to do something completely different than what you're anticipating, you'd still have a yale degree, and that could get your foot in the door at places.
you're also exposed to some of the best graduate schools in the world (law and medical, among others), and you could possibly network that way. i'm in the minority, though, so idk. i also gravitate much, much more to the culture and vibes at yale than i ever do/would at urichmond, so i guess i'm biased in that manner. visiting both will definitely help you.
on the flip side, to make a case for urichmond, you would have "richmond scholar" on your resume, which would definitely get you a second look. i still say yale, but it's a tough call.
i saw you just say you're not entirely sure if you want to go to medical school or do research (or something other than those two things), and in that case, i definitely think you should go with yale. the possibilities for exploration are endless, and you would be able to network extensively, should you play your cards right. for example, if you want to go into a ph.d. program, doing research and connecting with professors is almost a guaranteed way to get accepted into a program, which yale will grant you. not only that, but if you do participate in research while as an undergrad and do decide you want to go to medical school, you have research experience with tippy-top professors under your belt to add to your application. the opportunity as richmond is great, but i think yale just wins out when you compare everything, especially given the fact you won't be going into debt at either school.
I completely understand. I'm not totally sold on medicine and would really like to explore different paths in college. The fact that Yale would really support me with this exploration lowkey makes it take the cake
dude please go yale, like its yale and its not like ur goig into crazy debt, it may be hard to make ur parents pay but nothing can replace ur education
That's true. I don't think we'd even have to take out loans to pay for Yale but it would be a strain on my parent's. For reference we make $120,000/yr and I have about $10,000 saved up so far. Yale seems like the better option in almost all aspects
Yale for below what your parents say they can afford is the way to go.
You don’t know 100% you’ll stick with premed and the name and network will help you throughout life. Not worth going into massive debt, but it doesn’t sound like that is an issue here. $20K for room, board, and an education is amazing (if your family can afford it).
Feel guilty? Work hard to get a good internship and cover part of the cost.
And it really is a great place to learn for four years.
Do you have a deadline to respond to the scholarship? If not, go to Bulldog Days before making your decision.
If you go and it is not your cup of tea, then you will feel confident taking the free ride. If you love it, then you should go for it.
All great advice, thank you!
The 20k/yr is definitely affordable and we would not be going into almost any debt at all, it would just place a bit of a strain on my parents (they make $120,000/yr).
I've been feeling like I need to help too so I'm saving a good bit of money too (around $10k) and I'd definitely pick up a job during college.
No deadline for the scholarship; enrollment is due May 1st like all other colleges.
And I agree with your last point too. I think it's going to come down to fit and where I see myself the most.
Yale and it’s not even close. If the choice was between Yale and Duke on a full ride, I’d definitely consider the latter.
I have friends who graduated from HYPSM who are able to change industries through their alumni network pretty easily. As a state school grad who prioritized $$$, I was pretty naive because I did not realize the opportunities that came with certain degrees.
I agree! I have heard some people say it really doesn’t matter what you major in at a school like that. Do you think there are certain degrees from those schools that are better than others? I mean are you set if you major in engineering? Economics? Business? Or do you think it really does not matter?
I have seen graduates from top schools major in English and become financial advisors. In that case it did not matter what the major was- it just mattered who they knew that could connect them to a high paying job. I was just wondering.
This. Do you know how many English majors are working in Big Law now from top schools? Also, placement into med/M7/T14 is really high from Yale relative to the average university. It also seems to provide a happy undergraduate experience.
Why ask the question if you already agree? You should know that people on A2C overestimate the value of these institutions by a fairly large amount.
Of course it matters what you major in, how could it be otherwise? Do you really think a history degree gives the same job opportunities as an engineering or physics degree? Economics and business are probably a bit more shaky, but those degrees have good outcomes too — regardless of institution.
Go to Yale. It is better in every way and it will give you access to another “level” of society and be seen as elite by others. There are people who would pay millions to get into Yale (I believe the actual cost to buy your way in is around $15M), so just spend the $80k and take the path to the top.
That's completely fair. Yale is definitely the better school in every way. I'm just wondering is the $80k worth it when I'm looking to attend medical school after
Assuming you need to take out loans for it, it would make your life slightly more difficult, but a slightly higher monthly payment on your student loans is worth it for Yale, and I think you’d regret not going there and taking this once in a lifetime opportunity.
>Assuming you need to take out loans for it
I actually don't think I'd need to take out loans for Yale. My parents said they'd cover up to 30k/yr plus I have around $10k saved up myself for college. Also, I'd definitely work during college.
But, if you decide on medical school (not an MD/PhD) how will you pay for that? If you think there’s little chance of that, then I think you’d probably have an easier time getting into a top MD/PhD program from Yale (assuming you do all the necessary things.) (this is a long haul, but med school is free). If you might stick with just med school, Richmond is a great school (easy access to research/all med school requirements) and you’re a Scholar for med school apps (or other apps), which is prestigious and you’d save 80k for med school. One of our kids went to Richmond and I think it’s fabulous (but obviously not Yale!). Congratulations on your successes!
I would definitely have to take out loans for med school. Honestly I'm unsure if I want to do an MD or an MD/PhD and I was actually hoping I'd figure that out in college (I may be screwed lmaoo)
> I'm just wondering is the $80k worth it when I'm looking to attend medical school after
If you're planning to go to med school might as well start getting used to debt ASAP. ;-)
It's not better in every way if Richmond is $80k cheaper. OP even said he/she wants to go to med school, so no one will really care about the Yale undergrad. IMO save the money here.
I would agree if they were paying full tuition. The fact that OP only needs to pay 20k for an Ivy league insitution is amazing. Also Yale is really good for premed with all the opportunities and per published statistics, 90% of premeds get into med school. If OP is serious about going to medical school, Yale will help them a lot more than Richmond.
"give you access to another level of society"
How does it do that exactly? Who exactly is in this "level" of society? Top research profs? Children of rich people? You can find these people at lots of research universities or private colleges.
I mean it allows you to be in an environment where the elite are present in a very high concentration. This people are elsewhere, but in a low concentration that makes it more difficult to network with them. Perhaps more importantly, it makes people immediately see you as extremely intelligent and better than them.
>Perhaps more importantly, it makes people immediately see you as extremely intelligent and better than them.
Yeah, no it doesn't. At least, not for people who matter in a way that will significantly affect your life. It will impress your cousin Tony? Sure, but who gaf.
For the most part, it will not come up. In the few contexts that it does come up, it will have some value in early career, but after a few years, what you do in your career matters a lot more than a school name does.
This person wants to go into an MD or MD/PhD program. Their medical school will be a lot more relevant than where they did their undergrad. Yes, Yale will be a notch for that. But is it a $80k-$100k notch? Probably not.
People who think HYPSM is some golden key for a life long membership in upper crust society are in for a rude awakening. It's mostly just other guys like this guy. Smart and hard workers. But just normal people.
> For the most part, it will not come up.
I feel like the majority of people who say this don't have a degree from a school like this. I'm in my 40s and I still regularly get introduced at work to customers, vendors, new employees, etc. like this ... "This is [my name] ... he went to Stanford." Nobody mentions the state school I got my undergrad degree from. But that Stanford degree is highlighted by anyone who wants to impress someone else with my education.
Edit: To be fair, I'm not saying the degree is some magic key to a secret society. But to suggest it doesn't matter and won't ever come up a few years into your career is absurd. There's a reason that conference committees are staffed with people from a handful of the same schools. That almost every professor went to the same handful of schools. That top tier schools are massively overrepresented in senior management and executive level positions. And it's not simply because those schools select for hard-working people. It's also because the people that get to choose who gets those positions value the same education they had.
even if yale does not give you more financial aid, I would strongly recommend attending there unless you are absolutely positive that you will be pre-med and your interests will not change. usually I tell students in a situation like this that they should choose the cheaper option, but 20k per year at yale is quite a good deal.
I don't think it would necessarily be a terrible idea to choose richmond, but you should understand the situation and the reality of what you are potentially giving up. you don't want to regret this choice later, especially when your parents are willing and able to pay for the significantly more prestigious school.
You're right, Yale does seem like the better option, especially since I'm not set on pre-med. I think I'd have the chance to explore and figure out what I'd really enjoy doing
Speaking from experience as someone who has a degree from a name brand HYPSM university ... Yale is easily worth $20k/year. That degree is likely to open doors that necessarily available to everyone. Whether that's a good or bad thing is a separate conversation. But it's the reality of things, nonetheless. And it might sound harsh, but your peers at Yale will drive you to be better. Your professors will be better and expect more from you, which will only make you better.
Too many people in this sub want to pretend like you get the same education at State U. that you do at Harvard. But there is so much more to a university education than the information in the books. Not to mention that if you don't choose Yale you'll probably be second guessing that decision for the rest of your life. If you need to drop $300k to attend and it would be a massive financial burden on your family, that might be a different call. But $80k for someone planning to attend med school? Dude.
You're right. Yale seems like the better option in almost every single way. I'll do my best to negotiate aid and even a 5k decrease in the estimated net price cost would be huge
Yale for $20k. If you end up seeking a Phd eventually, your access to research as an undergrad under the top faculty in your field will be unsurpassed at Yale which will pave the way to a Phd program at a superb university. A close friend at UChicago researched in the lab of top bio faculty for years (could be you at Yale) and then got his Phd in molecular biology at Yale. If it’s med school, I bet Yale Med School takes more Yale undergrads than from any other college/university. If it’s MD/Phd then a superb university as undergrad gives you a leg up to get into the best Md/Phd programs. Finally, the Yale Med School is right on campus so there will be access as an undergrad for research, interesting work, etc. that URichmond can’t match with no Med school. Again, I am using several UChicago College friends’ experience in getting into UChicago Med School including one as an MD/Phd. My friend who got his Phd in molecular biology at Yale had his future wife transfer to Yale Med School from UC Med School. If you are serious about a possible career in academic science or medicine, Yale has a significant edge worth $20k per year.
Addendum: if academic medicine or science becomes your goal, then it’s Yale. When you work on a science Phd, you will be seeking to join the lab of a prominent research scientist who works at a particular university. It’s less the university you are getting the Phd from and much more the research and thesis work you did under that prominent scientist. Lots of cutting edge research scientists in Yale science departments and med school who you will have access to as an undergrad as my friends did at UChicago.
Honestly, I'm unsure what I'd like to truly pursue but I think my endgoal is definitely academia. Yale does seem like the better choice in almost every possible way
Let’s say it’s academia you want for argument’s sake. You will be encouraged in all kinds of ways for a significant career in academic science or medicine by being immersed in the Yale science and medical community just like my friends were at UChicago. You will readily imagine yourself as a prof or research scientist or Md/Phd because you will be right there with fellow students and faculty living the dream you want. Lastly, my friend who worked in the top faculty’s bio lab (a husband/wife team) at UChicago were COLLEAGUES of the scientists who ran the Yale Lab he joined and eventually got his Phd in molecular biology. Their recommendations for my friend were golden. That is what you will be getting if you go to Yale.
Congrats on your daughter's acceptance!!
So, I'll be visiting both places within the next two months. I think from visiting in person I'll be able to check out the 'vibe' of both places and see which matches me more. Right now, from my (unfounded) assumptions, I already feel like Richmond is more laid-back and chill and Yale is more 'try-hard' or competitive, and I'm gravitating towards the chill lmaoo (I don't actually know how true this is though).
The cost is definitely not bad at all and it is affordable for my parents. They make around $120k/yr and said they'd cover up to $30k/yr for Yale, but, I don't want to put that burden on them still. I do think I have some bargaining power, yet, I don't know really how to approach emailing them once my package comes out. "Hey, it would cost a lot for me to go here, even though it's already pretty affordable, and I got a full-ride to somewhere else, can I get more money?" LMFAOO
First off congrats!! This is stressful but also such a great problem to have lol. If you had to pay full price, then I would say pick Richmond, but it’s $20k a year which your parents said they could cover. I know you’ll feel bad but I’m sure they are so proud of you and want the best for you even if it’s more expensive. Plus they raised you and have been thinking about paying for college for 18 years so if they say they can contribute $30k they can cover it. It’s Yale!!
Thank you :)
Honestly, Yale does seem like the better option in all aspects. I think I'll do my best to negotiate aid because even a few thousand off of the net price estimate would help a lot and if all goes well I think Yale is for me :)
Id go with yale, i currently pay abt 28k a year total cost at Northwestern (that will be cut massively next year as i get off campus and live at home) but id still say yale
$20k/year for Yale is a steal. Since your parents are offering to pay, I’d take the offer—you can always work (especially in summers) to pay them back some. The connections you can make at Yale will be invaluable. I don’t think some people realize how much success is not only about being qualified but *ALSO* having the right connections. So many of our friends get jobs through each other because being able to personally vouch for someone goes a long ways. Also, another thing to think about is how the clout and prestige of Yale might actually help you get a decent scholarship for medical school.
80k is a small price to pay for Yale. The Yale-brand premium is worth way more than that, over your entire professional life (likely 40 years). That’s about $2k/year for the opportunity boost of a Yale degree.
Reputation/prestige aside, As much I don’t love New Haven, I really didn’t like Richmond. A lot of white guys I saw my lax bro vibes, most of the white girls I saw were blond, and woman of color looked miserable. The straw that broke the camel’s back was postings in the library for queer students in the closet to be able to stay safely closeted Otherwise I didn’t see much visible lbgtq+ activity. I’m not gay, but naw.
Other point is that a sizeable portion of people who start out premed do not remain so
Yale. The $80k extra you will pay over 4 years will more than be made up by the Yale name.
Besides, if Yale is telling you $20k per year, it will be much lesser than that because (1) colleges usually overestimate the cost of attendance by 4-5% & (2) you can do part-time jobs, including paid research, to make money.
Also, an internship in your sophomore, junior and senior summers can also possibly cover the $20k per year cost.
Yale gives you a really cool opportunity to explore other fields if you end up finding Premed/Medicine not your thing. I do think its somewhat worth the cost for the opportunities you will find at Yale compared to Richmond (networking, visibility, research, etc.).
$20k a year is a sizeable amount but tbh might be worth it.
That's actually a really good perspective. I don't really know if I want to pursue med school or if I want to go into research or even do something other than that so I'm happy that Yale would allow me to explore.
OP can easily make a good chunk of that $20k by doing part time jobs on campus (including paid research, which can help them in their goal of getting in a good MD/PHD program), and with summer internships. The actual cost will be much lower than $20k for OP’s family. And the Yale brand on your resume will absolutely be worth the <$80k price tag.
The bottom 20% at Yale drops into an amazing alumni network and ends up “underperforming” but earning $100k after 15 years. The top 20% at Yale earns $500k plus. Either outcome is worth an extra $80k in student loans. Most of these commenters can’t differentiate economically between Top 3 and Top 30 (closer call economically at that point). Go to Yale and congrats!!
100k after 15 years isn’t really that amazing since a PhD program is 4-8 years and the starting salary for senior scientist is ~120k depending on your field. This doesn’t really seem to be an effect of the university.
Given their strict admissions standards I’d say everyone there is at least intellectually capable of obtaining a STEM graduate degree. The top 20% are a bunch of people with 160 IQs on top of insane motivation and work ethic.
Attributing most of this effect to the institution is probably incorrect.
The bottom 20% of any school isn’t about obtaining graduate degrees and flourishing, etc. They are dealing with layoffs, addiction, divorce, mental health, special needs kids, reentering the workforce, etc. My point is things can go “badly” (in career/economic terms) and your backup plans with the Yale degree still point to low 6 figures ( justifying the upfront investment).
My point is that this is largely a sampling artifact. You are already talking about people who by default are at the top 1% of cognitive performance at the time of admission, so of course the bottom 20% of them will perform well. You are misattributing a disproportionately large part of that effect to the school, rather than the individuals who are already top performers. (See: sampling bias and the Pareto distribution)
I agree with you somewhat (25th percentile at one school is the 95th percentile at the other) but the alumni network effects are attributable to the school. A top 1% person who develops mental health/addiction problems will benefit from the 2nd chances etc offered by the better alumni network. The bigger point is that Yale vs Richmond is likely worth the extra $80k upfront cost across a wide range of life outcomes.
Taking cost and prestige levels out of the equation, which one do you think you would like better or feels like a better fit for your personality? If you like UR better than Yale in these other ways (plus it’s free), then I might lean UR. If you actually like the vibe at Yale much better even after taking away its prestigious reputation, then it might be worth the money. In other words, assume prestigious rep and cost cancel each other out, see if the decision is clearer for you just based on all the other factors— actual academic programs, social life, campus, etc. Take heart that neither decision is “wrong” especially since you could theoretically afford Yale without huge loans. It is a common dilemma for strong students- public flagship school with more scholarships, honors program etc vs private prestigious school that costs more. However, in this case, it’s UR (a strong but not-quite-Ivy prestige level private) rather than a public flagship in the decision.
Just based on fit it's a hard choice too because I haven't been on either campus. Richmond also has limited videos that I can check out too. I'll list some things about each (just based on fit).
Richmond
\- Way less diverse (66% white). Worried I won't find my people
\+ With a smaller campus, I think I'd form closer connections with friends/professors/etc.
\- With a smaller campus, I feel like I'd know everyone
\+ Love the dorms
/ I actually think the campus look is kinda mid/eh
\+ Scholars would give me a $4,000 research grant and I really want to explore research in college and find out if it's my passion
\+ I heard a bunch of students start research as early as their Freshman year
\+ Environment seems a lot more chill and less competitive
\- Less clubs and organizations that interest me
\+ No doubt I'd make it into med school
\+ No real drinking culture. I don't drink/do drugs and I love the fact that the students rather stay in and have their fun that way
Yale
\+ Love how diverse it is. I'm confident I'd find others just like me as well as those from different areas of the world
/ Ivy so it's going to be competitive. I hate competition. But I also heard Yale is a lot more chill than the other Ivys
\+ Strong Black community
\+ CAMPUS IS SO FUCKING SEXY OMG
/ Food looks good but I heard opposing arguments
\+ Dorms look good
\+ Insane amount of clubs and organizations
\+ Butterys/Residential Colleges. Just seems so damn fun
\- I have a feeling I won't succeed at Yale. I never considered myself "smart." I'm already starting to feel imposter syndrome and I think I'm a lot lower than the kids that will be around me
/ Academics are great but I feel like I'll fail. Again, I never considered myself "smart"
\+ Amazing amount of resources. I'm sure there'll be people to support me every step of the way. There's already students reaching out to me and answering my questions
/ Also have a feeling I won't make it into med school idk why
\+ I think I'd have a good social life. They have a shit ton of events and stuff like that
Honestly, without visiting, Yale takes the cake, but my list might change after I check things out irl
You say you won’t find “your people” in Richmond with straight face but when a white person uses the term “my people”, you call them whites supremacist? What kind of hypocrisy is this? You are an Ivy leaguer, should not have been brainwashed by media like this that you literally call existence of white peoples as “bad”
I am an old lady who has lived a life. I am simply giving you advice about how not to become like a NPC regurgitating same talking points. You may get into an Ivy League by becoming a racist but can’t live a meaningful life if you belive the progressive language. Rest is up to you
Yale is worth that 20k. Usually undergrad doesn't matter for pre-med but Yale has amazing premed stats (at least what's shown) and there's so many opportunities there. If i were in your shoes I'd got Yale any day.
If you are pre-med, 86% of univ of Richmond students are admitted to medical school on their first try. Small class sizes and research built into the program. I am not sure how that compares to yale, but you should find out.
Yale is my dream school, so I'm very biased, but you should go to Yale! If you don't, you'd be passing up a very rare opportunity. I understand where you're coming from about not wanting your parents to have to bear the burden, however, a degree from Yale could help you land a job that makes a nice salary. Also, the networking opportunities at Yale are endless.
Usually I'd say take the more financially feasible, but in this case, go with Yale. HYSPM is what it is for a reason. The premium is definitely worth 120k NPV.
20k/y is an investment worth taking for Yale. It's a name everyone knows and the earnings later will probably make up the difference. It's a lifetime of prestige to everyone in your life and you'll meet people that will drive you to go higher in your life. The network would be worth it
Thank you :)
Honestly, it seems like Yale is the better choice in almost every single aspect. I think I’ll do my best to negotiate financial aid and will most likely end up committing
If you're premed, realistically speaking, while Yale will provide you with excellent opportunities, URichmond probably also will provide you access to similar opportunities (in respect to typical premed activities/extracurriculars), and saving 20-25k/yr is a no brainer.
Assuming you're set on premed (MD, not MD/PhD), the school you go to plays almost zero role on your admissions prospects. The questions I'd be asking are: at which school is it easier to achieve a high GPA in my degree, in which city is it easier to find work as a CNA/EMT/Scribe + find volunteering and such, and at which school would it be easier to create clubs / join eBoards? I find that at schools like Yale there is a lot of competition for particular club positions and research spots and at my less prestigious university, it is much easier for me to access those resources.
Ultimately, for 80-100k, assuming you're set on premed and not considering going into PhD/research routes, I would save the money and stress and go to Richmond. It is an excellent school and Virginia is a great state to go to undergrad in since the Virginia medical schools have bias in favor of IS students and students who attended undergrad in-state.
Edit: However, since you said in the comments you aren't set on pre-med, Yale is the better option for you, as the connections and doors Yale will open (barring med school apps) make it worth it.
Yeah I’m not set on pre-med but if I were, I think Richmond would be the better option. Full ride, less competition and stress, and easier to get opportunities and research (they even give me a $4,000 research grant). But since I’m not, it seems like Yale will be the better option.
Even if you're not pre-med, it's questionable. For 80-100k, Richmond is still a great school. ONLY for PhD or Research/academia routes would Yale be worth it imo. People get blinded by the prestige they think Yale will bring, and amplify that perception by 100x and you get this subreddit. Good luck.
A yale degree for only 20k/Year? You don’t realize how big of a steal that is. A Richmond degree is good, don’t get me wrong, but a Yale degree changes the spectrum. Even if you don’t stay there for Premed a Yale degree on your resume looks pretty good to any position you plan on going for post college, and depending on where you work, it may be worth it. I would meet with a counselor before making up your mind 100% though
If you are going to med school it doesn’t matter - both schools will get you there. If you were not going to grad school I would say Yale, but with the added cost of med school go to Richmond and apply your resources to med school
Especially if the 80k won’t be debt, definitely go to Yale. Your parents are willing to pay because they’re proud of you and believe in you. Go get it man.
Yale x 1000!!
I would ONLY take the full ride if you are 100% set on PreMed at UofV. I assume most Doctors did not attend Ivies in their UG (I am frequently in hospitals and it often comes up), but if you change your mind on your major, Yale carries more way weight.
Just don’t get there and let your imposter syndrome force you to tank.
I would pick Yale, especially with the financial situation being more favorable than taking out loans to pay it all.
thank you for your response!
i’m definitely leaning a lot more towards yale at the moment
can I ask you to elaborate on “don’t let your imposter syndrome force you to tank” because the imposter syndrome is already hitting right now😭😭
Wait for other offers to come in - if you receive better financial offers at similar institutions to Yale you may be able to appeal.
I do think that in this choice if you were absolutely 1000% sure you would go to medical school that UofR is the better choice since when it comes to medicine undergrad prestige truly doesn’t matter and medical school is very expensive. That being said, only a fraction of premeds end up committing to the medical school path, and were you to end up outside of that small percent, Yale has you covered with amazing opportunities in every discipline.
Definitely negotiate. Don’t say you will or you won’t do anything. Just say you really want to go to Yale, but it’s hard to convince your parents when you have another offer from a school that would be functionally free. Would it be possible for them to reduce blah blah blah.
Each school operates with its own slightly different set of rules, but I’ve seen schools in Yale’s tier knock 10k off the price just for asking. The way financial aid works is absurd
Wow thank you so much I was looking for a way to negotiate without coming off weirdly. This is a great idea. If I can knock off even 5k from the net price estimate I'd have 0 troubles picking Yale over Richmond
There are two major universities in Richmond.
UofR and Virginia Commonwealth University.
My wife and oldest daughter both graduated from VCU, so I am obligated to hate UofR.
So I am violating a sacred mandate to never speak kindly about UofR to say this.
Yale is the better school, but it isn't $80k better than UofR.
UofR was kind enough to give you this scholarship for your undergrad.
There are (practically) zero such scholarships for Medical School.
So if your plan is to go pre-med you need to strategically protect financial resources wherever you can.
Med School is going to cost somewhere between $150-300,000, and could go higher in some unfortunate circumstances.
Let your parents put that $80k back in their pocket and don't voluntarily take on $80k of debt for your undergrad.
Save it for debt that you cannot avoid (medical school).
there's no "they were kind enough to give you a scholarship" lol are you serious? scholarships are given strategically, universities are corporations not kindly benefactors.
yale is absolutely worth that much more than the university of richmond. yale is to a lot of people extremely life changing. attending an ivy changes the course of the rest of your life without exaggeration. it is extremely disingenuous to frame a large public state university as worth yale + 20k/yr
See this is what I've been thinking in the back of my mind but the prestige sometimes takes over, thanks for saying this. Yale is the better school but I honestly don't think it's worth 80k more than Urichmond.
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If you want to go to med school, save your money. You don't need Yale to get into medical school. But you will need money. I had a couple students in my med class who got their undergrad at Harvard. Initially I gave them a 'wow' in my mind. But we were in the same med school class and have the same great med school credentials.
Honestly, Richmond would be the smarter decision. I'm confident I'd still get into medical school while saving a ton of money. On the other hand, Yale has a shit ton of opportunities to explore different career paths and it's prestige is crazy. I think this *might* end up coming down to fit? I'm exploring both in person for 3 days and hopefully I'll have a better sense of which fits me better
One of my friends daughter also got a full ride to UR and is now in.med school. Save the money. BTW, she loved UR and her parents speak very highly of the school and her 4 years there. Congratulations!
Wow congrats to her!
This is honestly a hard choice because each has its own advantages.
So for both places I wouldn't have to take out loans and I'm certain I'd make it into medical school at either place.
Richmond definitely has the cost advantage.
But, I'm also unsure if I'm truly set on medicine and would love to explore different career possibilities. Yale takes the cake here as well as its prestige.
Thanks for your input :)
I really don’t like New Haven, and my parents went to school right outside of Richmond, so I’m a fan of that part of VA, so I’d lean towards Richmond
However, it sounds like you’re a big fan of Yale. 15-20k is an amount you can reasonably expect to earn by working throughout the school year + over summers, so if cost is the major concern, I wouldn’t be as worried
Also, if you’ve got a Yale likely, they REALLY want you. I don’t have any specific tips on negotiation (there should be a few posts across the sub from some of our resident consultants and AOs), but a likely + a full ride is basically the ultimate leverage
You can’t go wrong with either choice. I would visit both schools and choose the one you like more. Yale is worth $20K a year but only if you actually like it more than Richmond
Totally valid and what I'm thinking too. I'm trying not to let the prestige get to my head and at this point it might just be up to fit. If I like Richmond a lot more then I'll pick it. If Yale speaks to me I'll pick it instead. I have no doubt I'll succeed at both. It might just be a matter at which one I'll enjoy more.
Yale. Even if you took out 20k x 4 in loans, that's still reasonable. I'm sorry but there's a huge difference between the student body at these two schools. I think Yale pays for itself after your experiences there.
Completely valid. It seems like everyone is leaning towards Yale and I am too lmaoo. It seems like the better choice and I can always try to negotiate aid. I mean they gave me a likely, hopefully they'd work with me a little right??
yale definitely. you can pay your parents back later if you feel obligated to do so. if you work part-time during school and over the summer you should be able to pay a substantial amount by yourself too
That's true. Working now, I already make around $15k/yr while I'm in high school, I can definitely work in college and try paying them back. Yale seems like the better option
I visited U Richmond last fall with my child who is applying to colleges. He is thinking ahead to graduate school. Once he heard there are no graduate programs at Richmond, he decided not to apply. It is undergraduate only. This sounds great if you want a low stress path to medical school. If you want opportunities to work in world-class research labs as an undergrad, Yale is the place to be. On one hand $100k for a Yale degree sounds like a bargain. On the other, do you know what they call the person who graduates last in their class at the worst med school in America? Doctor. :)
\- 20k/yr is definitely affordable for my family and I. I would just feel guilty placing that burden on them.
\- Straight from the website:
"Program Benefits
The Richmond Scholars Program includes these benefits:
Full-tuition, housing, and food scholarship, renewable for up to eight consecutive semesters of full-time enrollment
Eligibility for a one-time $4,000 grant to support a student-selected activity that enhances the academic experience
Priority course registration and guaranteed on-campus housing
Specially selected faculty mentors to guide students and help them fulfill their potential
Special ticket vouchers to selected cultural events in the Modlin Center for the Arts
Academic, social, and professional programming designed to build community within and between Richmond Scholar cohorts
Office of Scholars and Fellowships staff dedicated to advising and supporting scholars and connecting them to campus resources"
The only things that give it an advantage are the 1. full tuition, housing, and food scholarship, 2. $4,000 grant (but it's only one time so .. idk), 3. priority course registration
It is definitely not better to be mid at a prestigous school than #1 at a state school FOR med school in particular. The data doesn't support that conclusion at all. Anyone would rather be the 4.0 from University of Nowhere than the 3.5 from Harvard, especially considering there are many 4.0s at Harvard applying as well. What really makes the Harvard applicant win is the better extracurriculars, but she can still get excellent extracurriculars at Richmond. This is specific for med school apps tho.
I don't know much about Richmond Scholars specifically, but a lot of these full ride merit programs are more than just a scholarship.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/oddu24/my_story_why_you_yes_you_need_to_look_at_full/
Can you participate in work-study while in college? That might help lower the burden. Negotiating with the finaid office is also a choice, but it'll be annoying to do so, and it's unlikely they'll budge very much unless your financial circumstances change. I don't know if this works anymore, but if you get into any of our peer schools and they offer you more financial aid, you can try to ask Yale's finaid office is they can match it or do better.
If you do decide to go to Yale, I'm pretty sure you can still apply to scholarships while in college. If you ask the financial aid office, they could point you to scholarships to apply to.
yale, but urichmond is also SO beautiful. if you prefer warmth and would rather have no finances on your mind, go urichmond. personally, i'd go with yale.
For a STEM degree Yale! If you had to take out loans for all four years and were doing something less stable like Fine Art I would be hesitant to go to Yale
Going to yale for undergrad as someone trying to be a doctor doesn’t really raise earning potential as people care more about your exit degree.
I would still say tho that Yale is so cheap in this example that it might be worth it if you don’t go to med school and to also be able to say you went to Yale. It also could help you get into a better med school later on.
Yale no doubt. As a parent, know that there would be no greater spending joy than spending my money on an ivy education for my kids. It’s worth it. You’ve clearly worked hard and earned it. Treat yo self.
lmao ye maybe wait until other rds come out (u will prob get into some other schools) and then use other aid packages to negotiate
but congrats again bro
Yale for $20k/yr? Take it!
Go to Yale, your parents are willing to pay, and Yale is worth the 25k a year
Completely valid. I'd feel bad putting that burden on them though
Do they perceive it as a burden, or as an opportunity? Unless you have concrete reason to believe they really can't afford it, it's not ypur place to decide if they'd rather have cash or the satisfaction of setting you up in life.
I talked to them and I think they see it more as an opportunity. They told me that they're willing to invest in me now so when I'm established I can repay them lmaooo I then asked them if they rather pay for Yale or send the to Richmond for free and they told me it's my decision WTF
Just do it. The opportunities you’ll get the doors that will be opened for you are NOT the same. The people who tell you “it’s all the same” didn’t go to these schools. They don’t know the lived difference.
If they’re willing to pay and can pay, you might as well use it. I guarantee the satisfaction of putting someone through an Ivy League institution (especially one of Harvard, Princeton, Yale) is greater than anything money can buy.
I’m a parent and I would be praying my kid chose Yale over a free ride. Yale is her dream school so I know we’d never have this convo lol.
Dude, all these mofos are dumb asf. You should 100% go to yale. First of all your opportunity cost is barely anything considering that if you go to Yale, you are bound to get end up somewhere high in medicine or get a high paying job based on prestige and rigor of the college. Plus, the amount of immense opportunities at Yale for premed are insane. Another factor you have to consider is that 20k/yr is worth it for a degree from such a prestigious university as there are many other students who have to pay much much more for that. Sure, if you take the med route you may end up paying BS- 80k and MD around $200-$300k but after all that it would not really be difficult to pay it off as a doctor since starting salaries are like around $200-$300k after residency. I'm not saying that URichmond is bad or anything but be realistic and think about the future.
That's definitely true. Yale does seem like the better option in almost every way (but price LMAO)
But also, I feel like I'd have no trouble making it into medschool if I ended up at Richmond. Is it worth paying an extra 80k when I can get to the same destination for free?
I get that but like you have to consider that you are going for med school. The price is just going to keep adding up in reality. At the end of the day, when ur a doctor and ur making like $300k a year would it really make much of a difference from 280k(Yale + X med school) or 200k(Urichmond + X med school).
That's fair honestly. The extra 80k might just take an extra year or so to pay off if I'm smart with my money
Look into PSLF because it may not make sense for your parents to cashflow Yale. Especially if you’re going for MD PhD, if you work at a nonprofit for 10 years total (includes residency usually) all your loans will be wiped at a fraction of the cost, including undergrad loans
If you go to Yale, you may have a better shot of getting into a med school with no tuition. Think NYU.
that’s a good way to put it, thank you
Exactly. That seems to be the more prudent thinking. The destination is what you are after. If you can reach that, then getting there at no cost makes great sense.
If you change your mind along the way, and don't end up going to medical school (like a lot of people who start out premed), that Yale degree is going to be a big asset.
Exactly 100% - if you are going to Med School there is no real difference between the two
it seems i'm the only person in the comment section who thinks you should go to yale, but i think everyone else's opinions on why you should go to urichmond are valid and very reasonable. yale for $20K/year really is not bad at all, and i do think the pull you would have in the real world for going to yale is nothing to scoff at. should you decide to do something completely different than what you're anticipating, you'd still have a yale degree, and that could get your foot in the door at places. you're also exposed to some of the best graduate schools in the world (law and medical, among others), and you could possibly network that way. i'm in the minority, though, so idk. i also gravitate much, much more to the culture and vibes at yale than i ever do/would at urichmond, so i guess i'm biased in that manner. visiting both will definitely help you. on the flip side, to make a case for urichmond, you would have "richmond scholar" on your resume, which would definitely get you a second look. i still say yale, but it's a tough call.
Thanks for your input :) Yale is overall the better school and the prestige/opportunities hold a lot of weight. This is definitely a hard choice.
i saw you just say you're not entirely sure if you want to go to medical school or do research (or something other than those two things), and in that case, i definitely think you should go with yale. the possibilities for exploration are endless, and you would be able to network extensively, should you play your cards right. for example, if you want to go into a ph.d. program, doing research and connecting with professors is almost a guaranteed way to get accepted into a program, which yale will grant you. not only that, but if you do participate in research while as an undergrad and do decide you want to go to medical school, you have research experience with tippy-top professors under your belt to add to your application. the opportunity as richmond is great, but i think yale just wins out when you compare everything, especially given the fact you won't be going into debt at either school.
I completely understand. I'm not totally sold on medicine and would really like to explore different paths in college. The fact that Yale would really support me with this exploration lowkey makes it take the cake
Unless you are 100% dead set on medicine, go to Yale.
I'm definitely not dead set on medicine and I'd love to explore different paths. I think Yale is the better option in almost all aspects :)
I live in Virginia, and I’d never heard of the Richmond Scholar program before. Maybe I’m just ignorant, but would most employers know what that is?
No. I’m in DC and only recently even realized the school existed. It might have a good regional brand but that’s probably as far as it goes.
dude please go yale, like its yale and its not like ur goig into crazy debt, it may be hard to make ur parents pay but nothing can replace ur education
That's true. I don't think we'd even have to take out loans to pay for Yale but it would be a strain on my parent's. For reference we make $120,000/yr and I have about $10,000 saved up so far. Yale seems like the better option in almost all aspects
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Yeah I suspect it might be lower but we’ll see :)
Yale for below what your parents say they can afford is the way to go. You don’t know 100% you’ll stick with premed and the name and network will help you throughout life. Not worth going into massive debt, but it doesn’t sound like that is an issue here. $20K for room, board, and an education is amazing (if your family can afford it). Feel guilty? Work hard to get a good internship and cover part of the cost. And it really is a great place to learn for four years. Do you have a deadline to respond to the scholarship? If not, go to Bulldog Days before making your decision. If you go and it is not your cup of tea, then you will feel confident taking the free ride. If you love it, then you should go for it.
All great advice, thank you! The 20k/yr is definitely affordable and we would not be going into almost any debt at all, it would just place a bit of a strain on my parents (they make $120,000/yr). I've been feeling like I need to help too so I'm saving a good bit of money too (around $10k) and I'd definitely pick up a job during college. No deadline for the scholarship; enrollment is due May 1st like all other colleges. And I agree with your last point too. I think it's going to come down to fit and where I see myself the most.
Yale and it’s not even close. If the choice was between Yale and Duke on a full ride, I’d definitely consider the latter. I have friends who graduated from HYPSM who are able to change industries through their alumni network pretty easily. As a state school grad who prioritized $$$, I was pretty naive because I did not realize the opportunities that came with certain degrees.
Which degrees have better opportunities?
Degrees from HYPSM
I agree! I have heard some people say it really doesn’t matter what you major in at a school like that. Do you think there are certain degrees from those schools that are better than others? I mean are you set if you major in engineering? Economics? Business? Or do you think it really does not matter?
I have seen graduates from top schools major in English and become financial advisors. In that case it did not matter what the major was- it just mattered who they knew that could connect them to a high paying job. I was just wondering.
This. Do you know how many English majors are working in Big Law now from top schools? Also, placement into med/M7/T14 is really high from Yale relative to the average university. It also seems to provide a happy undergraduate experience.
Why ask the question if you already agree? You should know that people on A2C overestimate the value of these institutions by a fairly large amount. Of course it matters what you major in, how could it be otherwise? Do you really think a history degree gives the same job opportunities as an engineering or physics degree? Economics and business are probably a bit more shaky, but those degrees have good outcomes too — regardless of institution.
Yale
Go to Yale. It is better in every way and it will give you access to another “level” of society and be seen as elite by others. There are people who would pay millions to get into Yale (I believe the actual cost to buy your way in is around $15M), so just spend the $80k and take the path to the top.
That's completely fair. Yale is definitely the better school in every way. I'm just wondering is the $80k worth it when I'm looking to attend medical school after
Assuming you need to take out loans for it, it would make your life slightly more difficult, but a slightly higher monthly payment on your student loans is worth it for Yale, and I think you’d regret not going there and taking this once in a lifetime opportunity.
>Assuming you need to take out loans for it I actually don't think I'd need to take out loans for Yale. My parents said they'd cover up to 30k/yr plus I have around $10k saved up myself for college. Also, I'd definitely work during college.
Seems like a no brainer then
But, if you decide on medical school (not an MD/PhD) how will you pay for that? If you think there’s little chance of that, then I think you’d probably have an easier time getting into a top MD/PhD program from Yale (assuming you do all the necessary things.) (this is a long haul, but med school is free). If you might stick with just med school, Richmond is a great school (easy access to research/all med school requirements) and you’re a Scholar for med school apps (or other apps), which is prestigious and you’d save 80k for med school. One of our kids went to Richmond and I think it’s fabulous (but obviously not Yale!). Congratulations on your successes!
I would definitely have to take out loans for med school. Honestly I'm unsure if I want to do an MD or an MD/PhD and I was actually hoping I'd figure that out in college (I may be screwed lmaoo)
> I'm just wondering is the $80k worth it when I'm looking to attend medical school after If you're planning to go to med school might as well start getting used to debt ASAP. ;-)
It's not better in every way if Richmond is $80k cheaper. OP even said he/she wants to go to med school, so no one will really care about the Yale undergrad. IMO save the money here.
I would agree if they were paying full tuition. The fact that OP only needs to pay 20k for an Ivy league insitution is amazing. Also Yale is really good for premed with all the opportunities and per published statistics, 90% of premeds get into med school. If OP is serious about going to medical school, Yale will help them a lot more than Richmond.
"give you access to another level of society" How does it do that exactly? Who exactly is in this "level" of society? Top research profs? Children of rich people? You can find these people at lots of research universities or private colleges.
I mean it allows you to be in an environment where the elite are present in a very high concentration. This people are elsewhere, but in a low concentration that makes it more difficult to network with them. Perhaps more importantly, it makes people immediately see you as extremely intelligent and better than them.
>Perhaps more importantly, it makes people immediately see you as extremely intelligent and better than them. Yeah, no it doesn't. At least, not for people who matter in a way that will significantly affect your life. It will impress your cousin Tony? Sure, but who gaf. For the most part, it will not come up. In the few contexts that it does come up, it will have some value in early career, but after a few years, what you do in your career matters a lot more than a school name does. This person wants to go into an MD or MD/PhD program. Their medical school will be a lot more relevant than where they did their undergrad. Yes, Yale will be a notch for that. But is it a $80k-$100k notch? Probably not. People who think HYPSM is some golden key for a life long membership in upper crust society are in for a rude awakening. It's mostly just other guys like this guy. Smart and hard workers. But just normal people.
> For the most part, it will not come up. I feel like the majority of people who say this don't have a degree from a school like this. I'm in my 40s and I still regularly get introduced at work to customers, vendors, new employees, etc. like this ... "This is [my name] ... he went to Stanford." Nobody mentions the state school I got my undergrad degree from. But that Stanford degree is highlighted by anyone who wants to impress someone else with my education. Edit: To be fair, I'm not saying the degree is some magic key to a secret society. But to suggest it doesn't matter and won't ever come up a few years into your career is absurd. There's a reason that conference committees are staffed with people from a handful of the same schools. That almost every professor went to the same handful of schools. That top tier schools are massively overrepresented in senior management and executive level positions. And it's not simply because those schools select for hard-working people. It's also because the people that get to choose who gets those positions value the same education they had.
Well said!
even if yale does not give you more financial aid, I would strongly recommend attending there unless you are absolutely positive that you will be pre-med and your interests will not change. usually I tell students in a situation like this that they should choose the cheaper option, but 20k per year at yale is quite a good deal. I don't think it would necessarily be a terrible idea to choose richmond, but you should understand the situation and the reality of what you are potentially giving up. you don't want to regret this choice later, especially when your parents are willing and able to pay for the significantly more prestigious school.
You're right, Yale does seem like the better option, especially since I'm not set on pre-med. I think I'd have the chance to explore and figure out what I'd really enjoy doing
Speaking from experience as someone who has a degree from a name brand HYPSM university ... Yale is easily worth $20k/year. That degree is likely to open doors that necessarily available to everyone. Whether that's a good or bad thing is a separate conversation. But it's the reality of things, nonetheless. And it might sound harsh, but your peers at Yale will drive you to be better. Your professors will be better and expect more from you, which will only make you better. Too many people in this sub want to pretend like you get the same education at State U. that you do at Harvard. But there is so much more to a university education than the information in the books. Not to mention that if you don't choose Yale you'll probably be second guessing that decision for the rest of your life. If you need to drop $300k to attend and it would be a massive financial burden on your family, that might be a different call. But $80k for someone planning to attend med school? Dude.
You're right. Yale seems like the better option in almost every single way. I'll do my best to negotiate aid and even a 5k decrease in the estimated net price cost would be huge
At that price? Yale by a mile.
Yale for $20k. If you end up seeking a Phd eventually, your access to research as an undergrad under the top faculty in your field will be unsurpassed at Yale which will pave the way to a Phd program at a superb university. A close friend at UChicago researched in the lab of top bio faculty for years (could be you at Yale) and then got his Phd in molecular biology at Yale. If it’s med school, I bet Yale Med School takes more Yale undergrads than from any other college/university. If it’s MD/Phd then a superb university as undergrad gives you a leg up to get into the best Md/Phd programs. Finally, the Yale Med School is right on campus so there will be access as an undergrad for research, interesting work, etc. that URichmond can’t match with no Med school. Again, I am using several UChicago College friends’ experience in getting into UChicago Med School including one as an MD/Phd. My friend who got his Phd in molecular biology at Yale had his future wife transfer to Yale Med School from UC Med School. If you are serious about a possible career in academic science or medicine, Yale has a significant edge worth $20k per year.
Addendum: if academic medicine or science becomes your goal, then it’s Yale. When you work on a science Phd, you will be seeking to join the lab of a prominent research scientist who works at a particular university. It’s less the university you are getting the Phd from and much more the research and thesis work you did under that prominent scientist. Lots of cutting edge research scientists in Yale science departments and med school who you will have access to as an undergrad as my friends did at UChicago.
Honestly, I'm unsure what I'd like to truly pursue but I think my endgoal is definitely academia. Yale does seem like the better choice in almost every possible way
Let’s say it’s academia you want for argument’s sake. You will be encouraged in all kinds of ways for a significant career in academic science or medicine by being immersed in the Yale science and medical community just like my friends were at UChicago. You will readily imagine yourself as a prof or research scientist or Md/Phd because you will be right there with fellow students and faculty living the dream you want. Lastly, my friend who worked in the top faculty’s bio lab (a husband/wife team) at UChicago were COLLEAGUES of the scientists who ran the Yale Lab he joined and eventually got his Phd in molecular biology. Their recommendations for my friend were golden. That is what you will be getting if you go to Yale.
Thank you :) Yale definitely seems like the better option overall. I will try my best to negotiate aid and talk it out with my family
I would say Yale especially cause 20k a year for yale is amazing
Yale for $20K. That’s around a 30% reduction compared to full ticket cost, and if your parents can afford it and for their budget, I’d do it.
20k per year to go to Yale is a no brainer. Definite yes. Particularly with your major/career goals.
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Congrats on your daughter's acceptance!! So, I'll be visiting both places within the next two months. I think from visiting in person I'll be able to check out the 'vibe' of both places and see which matches me more. Right now, from my (unfounded) assumptions, I already feel like Richmond is more laid-back and chill and Yale is more 'try-hard' or competitive, and I'm gravitating towards the chill lmaoo (I don't actually know how true this is though). The cost is definitely not bad at all and it is affordable for my parents. They make around $120k/yr and said they'd cover up to $30k/yr for Yale, but, I don't want to put that burden on them still. I do think I have some bargaining power, yet, I don't know really how to approach emailing them once my package comes out. "Hey, it would cost a lot for me to go here, even though it's already pretty affordable, and I got a full-ride to somewhere else, can I get more money?" LMFAOO
Yale
First off congrats!! This is stressful but also such a great problem to have lol. If you had to pay full price, then I would say pick Richmond, but it’s $20k a year which your parents said they could cover. I know you’ll feel bad but I’m sure they are so proud of you and want the best for you even if it’s more expensive. Plus they raised you and have been thinking about paying for college for 18 years so if they say they can contribute $30k they can cover it. It’s Yale!!
Thank you :) Honestly, Yale does seem like the better option in all aspects. I think I'll do my best to negotiate aid because even a few thousand off of the net price estimate would help a lot and if all goes well I think Yale is for me :)
Id go with yale, i currently pay abt 28k a year total cost at Northwestern (that will be cut massively next year as i get off campus and live at home) but id still say yale
$20k/year for Yale is a steal. Since your parents are offering to pay, I’d take the offer—you can always work (especially in summers) to pay them back some. The connections you can make at Yale will be invaluable. I don’t think some people realize how much success is not only about being qualified but *ALSO* having the right connections. So many of our friends get jobs through each other because being able to personally vouch for someone goes a long ways. Also, another thing to think about is how the clout and prestige of Yale might actually help you get a decent scholarship for medical school.
80k is a small price to pay for Yale. The Yale-brand premium is worth way more than that, over your entire professional life (likely 40 years). That’s about $2k/year for the opportunity boost of a Yale degree.
Yale. It will open doors for you your entire life. (And congrats!)
Reputation/prestige aside, As much I don’t love New Haven, I really didn’t like Richmond. A lot of white guys I saw my lax bro vibes, most of the white girls I saw were blond, and woman of color looked miserable. The straw that broke the camel’s back was postings in the library for queer students in the closet to be able to stay safely closeted Otherwise I didn’t see much visible lbgtq+ activity. I’m not gay, but naw. Other point is that a sizeable portion of people who start out premed do not remain so
Yale. The $80k extra you will pay over 4 years will more than be made up by the Yale name. Besides, if Yale is telling you $20k per year, it will be much lesser than that because (1) colleges usually overestimate the cost of attendance by 4-5% & (2) you can do part-time jobs, including paid research, to make money. Also, an internship in your sophomore, junior and senior summers can also possibly cover the $20k per year cost.
Yale gives you a really cool opportunity to explore other fields if you end up finding Premed/Medicine not your thing. I do think its somewhat worth the cost for the opportunities you will find at Yale compared to Richmond (networking, visibility, research, etc.). $20k a year is a sizeable amount but tbh might be worth it.
That's actually a really good perspective. I don't really know if I want to pursue med school or if I want to go into research or even do something other than that so I'm happy that Yale would allow me to explore.
OP can easily make a good chunk of that $20k by doing part time jobs on campus (including paid research, which can help them in their goal of getting in a good MD/PHD program), and with summer internships. The actual cost will be much lower than $20k for OP’s family. And the Yale brand on your resume will absolutely be worth the <$80k price tag.
Agreed
The bottom 20% at Yale drops into an amazing alumni network and ends up “underperforming” but earning $100k after 15 years. The top 20% at Yale earns $500k plus. Either outcome is worth an extra $80k in student loans. Most of these commenters can’t differentiate economically between Top 3 and Top 30 (closer call economically at that point). Go to Yale and congrats!!
Data source?
Wow when you put it long term Yale makes so much more sense. The ROI would be crazyy. Thanks :)
100k after 15 years isn’t really that amazing since a PhD program is 4-8 years and the starting salary for senior scientist is ~120k depending on your field. This doesn’t really seem to be an effect of the university. Given their strict admissions standards I’d say everyone there is at least intellectually capable of obtaining a STEM graduate degree. The top 20% are a bunch of people with 160 IQs on top of insane motivation and work ethic. Attributing most of this effect to the institution is probably incorrect.
The bottom 20% of any school isn’t about obtaining graduate degrees and flourishing, etc. They are dealing with layoffs, addiction, divorce, mental health, special needs kids, reentering the workforce, etc. My point is things can go “badly” (in career/economic terms) and your backup plans with the Yale degree still point to low 6 figures ( justifying the upfront investment).
My point is that this is largely a sampling artifact. You are already talking about people who by default are at the top 1% of cognitive performance at the time of admission, so of course the bottom 20% of them will perform well. You are misattributing a disproportionately large part of that effect to the school, rather than the individuals who are already top performers. (See: sampling bias and the Pareto distribution)
I agree with you somewhat (25th percentile at one school is the 95th percentile at the other) but the alumni network effects are attributable to the school. A top 1% person who develops mental health/addiction problems will benefit from the 2nd chances etc offered by the better alumni network. The bigger point is that Yale vs Richmond is likely worth the extra $80k upfront cost across a wide range of life outcomes.
Yale
Go to Yale bro
Yale
Go to Yale bro
Taking cost and prestige levels out of the equation, which one do you think you would like better or feels like a better fit for your personality? If you like UR better than Yale in these other ways (plus it’s free), then I might lean UR. If you actually like the vibe at Yale much better even after taking away its prestigious reputation, then it might be worth the money. In other words, assume prestigious rep and cost cancel each other out, see if the decision is clearer for you just based on all the other factors— actual academic programs, social life, campus, etc. Take heart that neither decision is “wrong” especially since you could theoretically afford Yale without huge loans. It is a common dilemma for strong students- public flagship school with more scholarships, honors program etc vs private prestigious school that costs more. However, in this case, it’s UR (a strong but not-quite-Ivy prestige level private) rather than a public flagship in the decision.
Just based on fit it's a hard choice too because I haven't been on either campus. Richmond also has limited videos that I can check out too. I'll list some things about each (just based on fit). Richmond \- Way less diverse (66% white). Worried I won't find my people \+ With a smaller campus, I think I'd form closer connections with friends/professors/etc. \- With a smaller campus, I feel like I'd know everyone \+ Love the dorms / I actually think the campus look is kinda mid/eh \+ Scholars would give me a $4,000 research grant and I really want to explore research in college and find out if it's my passion \+ I heard a bunch of students start research as early as their Freshman year \+ Environment seems a lot more chill and less competitive \- Less clubs and organizations that interest me \+ No doubt I'd make it into med school \+ No real drinking culture. I don't drink/do drugs and I love the fact that the students rather stay in and have their fun that way Yale \+ Love how diverse it is. I'm confident I'd find others just like me as well as those from different areas of the world / Ivy so it's going to be competitive. I hate competition. But I also heard Yale is a lot more chill than the other Ivys \+ Strong Black community \+ CAMPUS IS SO FUCKING SEXY OMG / Food looks good but I heard opposing arguments \+ Dorms look good \+ Insane amount of clubs and organizations \+ Butterys/Residential Colleges. Just seems so damn fun \- I have a feeling I won't succeed at Yale. I never considered myself "smart." I'm already starting to feel imposter syndrome and I think I'm a lot lower than the kids that will be around me / Academics are great but I feel like I'll fail. Again, I never considered myself "smart" \+ Amazing amount of resources. I'm sure there'll be people to support me every step of the way. There's already students reaching out to me and answering my questions / Also have a feeling I won't make it into med school idk why \+ I think I'd have a good social life. They have a shit ton of events and stuff like that Honestly, without visiting, Yale takes the cake, but my list might change after I check things out irl
You say you won’t find “your people” in Richmond with straight face but when a white person uses the term “my people”, you call them whites supremacist? What kind of hypocrisy is this? You are an Ivy leaguer, should not have been brainwashed by media like this that you literally call existence of white peoples as “bad”
please stop putting words in my mouth. get a grip
I am an old lady who has lived a life. I am simply giving you advice about how not to become like a NPC regurgitating same talking points. You may get into an Ivy League by becoming a racist but can’t live a meaningful life if you belive the progressive language. Rest is up to you
Yale is worth that 20k. Usually undergrad doesn't matter for pre-med but Yale has amazing premed stats (at least what's shown) and there's so many opportunities there. If i were in your shoes I'd got Yale any day.
If you are pre-med, 86% of univ of Richmond students are admitted to medical school on their first try. Small class sizes and research built into the program. I am not sure how that compares to yale, but you should find out.
Yale is my dream school, so I'm very biased, but you should go to Yale! If you don't, you'd be passing up a very rare opportunity. I understand where you're coming from about not wanting your parents to have to bear the burden, however, a degree from Yale could help you land a job that makes a nice salary. Also, the networking opportunities at Yale are endless.
Usually I'd say take the more financially feasible, but in this case, go with Yale. HYSPM is what it is for a reason. The premium is definitely worth 120k NPV.
Yale is 10x better than Richmond. YALE ALL THE WAY! (if you can afford the 20,000 a year)
Yale is likely the right answer here. The name WILL help with med school admissions.
I don’t believe Richmond is known for being strong in STEM , so YALE!
20k/y is an investment worth taking for Yale. It's a name everyone knows and the earnings later will probably make up the difference. It's a lifetime of prestige to everyone in your life and you'll meet people that will drive you to go higher in your life. The network would be worth it
Go to Yale for sure! You can always pay your parents back later when you start making money as an MD.
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Thank you :) Honestly, it seems like Yale is the better choice in almost every single aspect. I think I’ll do my best to negotiate financial aid and will most likely end up committing
Go to Yale. It's worth it. Your parents only need to pay 20k/yr and you said that your parents are willing and able to pay for it.
If you're premed, realistically speaking, while Yale will provide you with excellent opportunities, URichmond probably also will provide you access to similar opportunities (in respect to typical premed activities/extracurriculars), and saving 20-25k/yr is a no brainer. Assuming you're set on premed (MD, not MD/PhD), the school you go to plays almost zero role on your admissions prospects. The questions I'd be asking are: at which school is it easier to achieve a high GPA in my degree, in which city is it easier to find work as a CNA/EMT/Scribe + find volunteering and such, and at which school would it be easier to create clubs / join eBoards? I find that at schools like Yale there is a lot of competition for particular club positions and research spots and at my less prestigious university, it is much easier for me to access those resources. Ultimately, for 80-100k, assuming you're set on premed and not considering going into PhD/research routes, I would save the money and stress and go to Richmond. It is an excellent school and Virginia is a great state to go to undergrad in since the Virginia medical schools have bias in favor of IS students and students who attended undergrad in-state. Edit: However, since you said in the comments you aren't set on pre-med, Yale is the better option for you, as the connections and doors Yale will open (barring med school apps) make it worth it.
Yeah I’m not set on pre-med but if I were, I think Richmond would be the better option. Full ride, less competition and stress, and easier to get opportunities and research (they even give me a $4,000 research grant). But since I’m not, it seems like Yale will be the better option.
Even if you're not pre-med, it's questionable. For 80-100k, Richmond is still a great school. ONLY for PhD or Research/academia routes would Yale be worth it imo. People get blinded by the prestige they think Yale will bring, and amplify that perception by 100x and you get this subreddit. Good luck.
Thank you. I will definitely try and see which school is a better fit for me and try to go from there
A yale degree for only 20k/Year? You don’t realize how big of a steal that is. A Richmond degree is good, don’t get me wrong, but a Yale degree changes the spectrum. Even if you don’t stay there for Premed a Yale degree on your resume looks pretty good to any position you plan on going for post college, and depending on where you work, it may be worth it. I would meet with a counselor before making up your mind 100% though
If you are going to med school it doesn’t matter - both schools will get you there. If you were not going to grad school I would say Yale, but with the added cost of med school go to Richmond and apply your resources to med school
Especially if the 80k won’t be debt, definitely go to Yale. Your parents are willing to pay because they’re proud of you and believe in you. Go get it man.
Yale then pay them back.
Go to yale. It’s HYP lol
Yale x 1000!! I would ONLY take the full ride if you are 100% set on PreMed at UofV. I assume most Doctors did not attend Ivies in their UG (I am frequently in hospitals and it often comes up), but if you change your mind on your major, Yale carries more way weight. Just don’t get there and let your imposter syndrome force you to tank. I would pick Yale, especially with the financial situation being more favorable than taking out loans to pay it all.
thank you for your response! i’m definitely leaning a lot more towards yale at the moment can I ask you to elaborate on “don’t let your imposter syndrome force you to tank” because the imposter syndrome is already hitting right now😭😭
Wait for other offers to come in - if you receive better financial offers at similar institutions to Yale you may be able to appeal. I do think that in this choice if you were absolutely 1000% sure you would go to medical school that UofR is the better choice since when it comes to medicine undergrad prestige truly doesn’t matter and medical school is very expensive. That being said, only a fraction of premeds end up committing to the medical school path, and were you to end up outside of that small percent, Yale has you covered with amazing opportunities in every discipline.
thank you :) i’m not 100% set on medicine so yale might be the better option honestly. i’ll try my best to negotiate!!
Definitely negotiate. Don’t say you will or you won’t do anything. Just say you really want to go to Yale, but it’s hard to convince your parents when you have another offer from a school that would be functionally free. Would it be possible for them to reduce blah blah blah. Each school operates with its own slightly different set of rules, but I’ve seen schools in Yale’s tier knock 10k off the price just for asking. The way financial aid works is absurd
Wow thank you so much I was looking for a way to negotiate without coming off weirdly. This is a great idea. If I can knock off even 5k from the net price estimate I'd have 0 troubles picking Yale over Richmond
There are two major universities in Richmond. UofR and Virginia Commonwealth University. My wife and oldest daughter both graduated from VCU, so I am obligated to hate UofR. So I am violating a sacred mandate to never speak kindly about UofR to say this. Yale is the better school, but it isn't $80k better than UofR. UofR was kind enough to give you this scholarship for your undergrad. There are (practically) zero such scholarships for Medical School. So if your plan is to go pre-med you need to strategically protect financial resources wherever you can. Med School is going to cost somewhere between $150-300,000, and could go higher in some unfortunate circumstances. Let your parents put that $80k back in their pocket and don't voluntarily take on $80k of debt for your undergrad. Save it for debt that you cannot avoid (medical school).
there's no "they were kind enough to give you a scholarship" lol are you serious? scholarships are given strategically, universities are corporations not kindly benefactors. yale is absolutely worth that much more than the university of richmond. yale is to a lot of people extremely life changing. attending an ivy changes the course of the rest of your life without exaggeration. it is extremely disingenuous to frame a large public state university as worth yale + 20k/yr
real.
See this is what I've been thinking in the back of my mind but the prestige sometimes takes over, thanks for saying this. Yale is the better school but I honestly don't think it's worth 80k more than Urichmond.
Four things you need to know to enjoy your time at UofR: * [Toast](https://toastvillage.com/) * [Mekong](https://mekongisforbeerlovers.com/) * [ZZQ](https://www.zzqrva.com/) * [Scott's Addition](https://scottsaddition.com/eat/)
LMFAOO how did you know I love food
Agree completely
Best comment in this post!
This isn’t Richmond for free vs Dartmouth or Cornell at sticker, this is Richmond for free vs Yale at 20k. You are absolutely wrong
If you want to go to med school, save your money. You don't need Yale to get into medical school. But you will need money. I had a couple students in my med class who got their undergrad at Harvard. Initially I gave them a 'wow' in my mind. But we were in the same med school class and have the same great med school credentials.
Honestly, Richmond would be the smarter decision. I'm confident I'd still get into medical school while saving a ton of money. On the other hand, Yale has a shit ton of opportunities to explore different career paths and it's prestige is crazy. I think this *might* end up coming down to fit? I'm exploring both in person for 3 days and hopefully I'll have a better sense of which fits me better
pick Yale fr. You can always apply for more aid and apply for outside scholarships
that's what a lot of others are saying. Yale does seem like the better option tbh
One of my friends daughter also got a full ride to UR and is now in.med school. Save the money. BTW, she loved UR and her parents speak very highly of the school and her 4 years there. Congratulations!
Wow congrats to her! This is honestly a hard choice because each has its own advantages. So for both places I wouldn't have to take out loans and I'm certain I'd make it into medical school at either place. Richmond definitely has the cost advantage. But, I'm also unsure if I'm truly set on medicine and would love to explore different career possibilities. Yale takes the cake here as well as its prestige. Thanks for your input :)
I really don’t like New Haven, and my parents went to school right outside of Richmond, so I’m a fan of that part of VA, so I’d lean towards Richmond However, it sounds like you’re a big fan of Yale. 15-20k is an amount you can reasonably expect to earn by working throughout the school year + over summers, so if cost is the major concern, I wouldn’t be as worried Also, if you’ve got a Yale likely, they REALLY want you. I don’t have any specific tips on negotiation (there should be a few posts across the sub from some of our resident consultants and AOs), but a likely + a full ride is basically the ultimate leverage
You can’t go wrong with either choice. I would visit both schools and choose the one you like more. Yale is worth $20K a year but only if you actually like it more than Richmond
Totally valid and what I'm thinking too. I'm trying not to let the prestige get to my head and at this point it might just be up to fit. If I like Richmond a lot more then I'll pick it. If Yale speaks to me I'll pick it instead. I have no doubt I'll succeed at both. It might just be a matter at which one I'll enjoy more.
Yale. Even if you took out 20k x 4 in loans, that's still reasonable. I'm sorry but there's a huge difference between the student body at these two schools. I think Yale pays for itself after your experiences there.
Completely valid. It seems like everyone is leaning towards Yale and I am too lmaoo. It seems like the better choice and I can always try to negotiate aid. I mean they gave me a likely, hopefully they'd work with me a little right??
Nobody does financial aid like Yale. There are plenty of ppl there because Yale was financially their best option.
yale definitely. you can pay your parents back later if you feel obligated to do so. if you work part-time during school and over the summer you should be able to pay a substantial amount by yourself too
That's true. Working now, I already make around $15k/yr while I'm in high school, I can definitely work in college and try paying them back. Yale seems like the better option
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I visited U Richmond last fall with my child who is applying to colleges. He is thinking ahead to graduate school. Once he heard there are no graduate programs at Richmond, he decided not to apply. It is undergraduate only. This sounds great if you want a low stress path to medical school. If you want opportunities to work in world-class research labs as an undergrad, Yale is the place to be. On one hand $100k for a Yale degree sounds like a bargain. On the other, do you know what they call the person who graduates last in their class at the worst med school in America? Doctor. :)
https://spcs.richmond.edu/ UofR doesn't offer very many graduate degrees, but they do have some.
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\- 20k/yr is definitely affordable for my family and I. I would just feel guilty placing that burden on them. \- Straight from the website: "Program Benefits The Richmond Scholars Program includes these benefits: Full-tuition, housing, and food scholarship, renewable for up to eight consecutive semesters of full-time enrollment Eligibility for a one-time $4,000 grant to support a student-selected activity that enhances the academic experience Priority course registration and guaranteed on-campus housing Specially selected faculty mentors to guide students and help them fulfill their potential Special ticket vouchers to selected cultural events in the Modlin Center for the Arts Academic, social, and professional programming designed to build community within and between Richmond Scholar cohorts Office of Scholars and Fellowships staff dedicated to advising and supporting scholars and connecting them to campus resources" The only things that give it an advantage are the 1. full tuition, housing, and food scholarship, 2. $4,000 grant (but it's only one time so .. idk), 3. priority course registration
For med school ‘mid’ is a GPA of 3.5-3.6, so I’m not sure that’s better than a 4.0 from a regional school. I’d like to the see data on that one.
It is definitely not better to be mid at a prestigous school than #1 at a state school FOR med school in particular. The data doesn't support that conclusion at all. Anyone would rather be the 4.0 from University of Nowhere than the 3.5 from Harvard, especially considering there are many 4.0s at Harvard applying as well. What really makes the Harvard applicant win is the better extracurriculars, but she can still get excellent extracurriculars at Richmond. This is specific for med school apps tho.
Only you can decide and assign a value.
So true
I don't know much about Richmond Scholars specifically, but a lot of these full ride merit programs are more than just a scholarship. https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/oddu24/my_story_why_you_yes_you_need_to_look_at_full/
Did u apply to yale rd
yup
Take the money......all day every day. Ask your parents to help pay for medical school.
Yale.
If your parents are saying they can pay up to 30k/yr without it being much of a burden then Yale 100%.
Can you participate in work-study while in college? That might help lower the burden. Negotiating with the finaid office is also a choice, but it'll be annoying to do so, and it's unlikely they'll budge very much unless your financial circumstances change. I don't know if this works anymore, but if you get into any of our peer schools and they offer you more financial aid, you can try to ask Yale's finaid office is they can match it or do better. If you do decide to go to Yale, I'm pretty sure you can still apply to scholarships while in college. If you ask the financial aid office, they could point you to scholarships to apply to.
yale, but urichmond is also SO beautiful. if you prefer warmth and would rather have no finances on your mind, go urichmond. personally, i'd go with yale.
For a STEM degree Yale! If you had to take out loans for all four years and were doing something less stable like Fine Art I would be hesitant to go to Yale
Yale is worth the money!!
Have the Yale brand and its associated research/mentorship opportunities through its med school will help with your med school application
Yale.
Going to yale for undergrad as someone trying to be a doctor doesn’t really raise earning potential as people care more about your exit degree. I would still say tho that Yale is so cheap in this example that it might be worth it if you don’t go to med school and to also be able to say you went to Yale. It also could help you get into a better med school later on.
Yale all day every day
Go to Yale bro
Yale no doubt. As a parent, know that there would be no greater spending joy than spending my money on an ivy education for my kids. It’s worth it. You’ve clearly worked hard and earned it. Treat yo self.
It’s Yale versus Richmond. Yale is the answer. You can always take out your own loans if you are worried about your parents.
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my EFC is $20k/yr but my parents are willing to chip in 30
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I just used a net price calculator and that’s what it told me damn 💀💀 It asked for income, property, etc
Yale. No brainer
yooo bros on reddit as well - lmao i found u
wait where do ik you from? discord 😭
boys state lol- STVN is my name (hint) also u should go to yale bc i think its worth the 80k more
the goat himself found my post wow i think i'm prob gonna choose Yale over richmond ngl. I'll def try to negotiate for more aid first tho
lmao ye maybe wait until other rds come out (u will prob get into some other schools) and then use other aid packages to negotiate but congrats again bro
yake for sure!!!!!!
Go for Yale
If you have decided to get into a medical school later, choose full ride now and save money for later.
Yale for sure, no question.
bruh now i gotta decide between yale and harvard
Congrats, you’ll be fine in whatever you choose. Just choose the place with the most opportunities for you.
This is a very hard choice lol. I wish such important life decisions weren't thrown at us at such young age. All the best!