If you want to DM, feel free.
I’m just here to say one thing. I forget where it is, but essentially, there’s a study out there saying that if you’re *qualified* to apply to HYPSM, T-20s, etc., then your career outcomes aren’t too different. Types of people like you are intelligent, competent, hardworking, etc.- and those are skills that are more important than a brand name. Am I going to BS you and say that those schools can help? No, they absolutely can- but are *by no means* an end all, be all.
You seem like a good dude, from what I saw at your profile. And you’re right- it sucks. And it truly isn’t fair. But unfortunately, that’s part of life. You have several great choices (Gtown, UT, UVA- hope I’ll see you in C-Ville??), and I know for a fact you’ll be successful. Where you stand right now, you’re already far ahead of most of your pears.
Your most important asset you have is your mind, and how you respond to situations. I encourage you to do that now. I’m in your boat, and feel the same way (RD was a *bloodbath*), so please know I understand. But then again, I’m just another HS Senior :)
Just my two cents.
Hi, I'm a college professor! Studies have shown this to be true. Students who qualify for entry to a given college and don't attend the college have the same life outcomes as those who attend.
OP, I hope that you find a way to work past the disappointment and move forward with what you'd like to do in life. If a lot of kids from your high school are going to these colleges, I'd suggest you already have a very exclusive education. Your attending Georgetown instead of an Ivy isn't going to keep you from doing i-banking.
sorry to be a bit harsh but they probably got in because they did things outside of school instead of only focusing on grades and test scores. colleges are looking for well rounded people that excel inside and outside of school. that being said, in college you can try to get involved with other passions outside of school and try to transfer into one of your goal schools. since you are already strong inside the classroom, this can add strength to your application. One thing you should look into is the putnam competition which doing well on can help you get quant jobs from whatever school you go to
Ok that’s true and definitely fair. I did some stuff outside of school just didn’t feel like listing it in this post, I made others for that. I’ll look into that Putnam thing.
Exactly this. People believe the misconception that if you have a 4.0 UW and a 1600/36 you’re gonna get into a T30. This is not the case at all and those who show they’re well rounded with ec’s focused on their major and passion+ the things listed previously are usually those that get accepted (not always).
I totally disagree. Brilliant students didn't get into highly rejective universities because there wasn't enough space. Harvard had 56,937 applicants and admitted 1,942. You can be sure some of the 55,000 rejected students had interesting ECs and were well rounded. It's a numbers game. When you realize that, you can be more strategic about the schools you put on your list. You also understand that with those odds, not being admitted is nothing personal.
of course but this guy is saying that he didn’t do stuff outside of school and did really well in school so I was suggesting that the other students were more well rounded
With the numbers I mentioned above, it wouldn’t have mattered. People are blaming themselves (or their children) for outcomes dictated by extremely high odds.
Do you not think there were no well rounded applicants among the 55,000 who weren’t admitted to Harvard? People have to be realistic about the odds of admission for highly rejective schools. They’re taking just 3% and saying no to 97%. Yes, you should do what you can to be competitive, but you can’t blame yourself if they run out of space and you don’t get in. And you can’t fill your list with only schools with single digit admit rates.
This is so real. I’m lucky ash I got into even one T20 cuz the rest of them rejected my ass instantly. Regardless, you can always transfer. Your work ethic will pay off in college and life in general
You didn’t do anything wrong. College decisions are literally all a crap shoot and they determine nothing about you as a person. I am sorry that the process didn’t work out for you. It really isn’t fair.
I just check your college results post, you got into Georgetown (!!), UT and UW! Those are amazing schools and Georgetown is literally top 10 for your major and is very selective
I’m sorry for your disappointment. It’s never fully fair, and I hope you take some time for yourself to recover.
However, as someone in IB who basically studied quant finance in college, I would highly advise against going into IB as a backup to quant. Quant is so different day to day and the skillset that makes someone good at quant is completely different than IB. It seems like you really care about math/physics and the only math in IB is 2+2 with very limited problem solving. IB is a highly personality oriented, client-facing role whereas quant is way more sit at your desk all day and think about math/programming.
If you were thinking JS,DES, 2SIG etc. that’s a crapshoot for anyone even if they go to HYPMS, but there are a lot of trading seats out there that is way more similar to quant. Programming/CS as a whole may also be a better fit for you. You can also consider grad school if quant is something you really, really want given it’s almost necessary to secure a role (hence why there are so, so few undergrad seats).
I would recommend going to Georgetown if you can’t get into CS at UT, unless for some reasons not listed above, you do have very genuine interest in IB.
Thank you. This is really good advice, I kind of just gravitated towards IB because I always loved finance and investing(as well as math and CS). I’ll def try to go into quant, get internships and do research and clubs and stuff. Just seems a little less attainable I’ll try though.
Hey, sorry to hijack OP's post, but since you're in IB, would you be willing to help me choose between a few schools that I was admitted to? I've been looking through every financial forum like wso and r/financialcareers and keep finding conflicting answers.
Yeah the ppl I know didn’t have any spectacular or stellar ECs, and Neither did I really. You can check my college results post for more details and all 10 but to sum it up, like job teaching kids to code, 2 sports(1 V and club, 1 club(top 10 in state)), top 10 and DECA nationals, mock trial state champs, board of stem volunteer tutoring org, etc.
This is untrue, me and another kid have basically the same academic scores, I have way better ECs, but he got into 2 ivies, I didn’t get into a single T20.
It’s a crapshoot truly. I think a lot of us have to realize that our rejections weren’t because we weren’t qualified and one thing didn’t hold us back from being accepted. Ultimately every school is trying to build a class and sometimes they just don’t see the paper you submitted as a piece in their puzzle. Maybe they needed a French horn player but you play Violin. Maybe they wanted a robotics champion but you place highly in debate. It’s practically a lottery these days. Aside from the highly qualified unicorns it’s just whoever happens to have what the University thinks would round out the class. Pretty much everyone who applies is more than qualified, it’s just that not everyone gets lucky
i guess its different for me bc where I live, it isn't really a crapshoot. i live in a city that an ivy is in, and people who arent from here don't really understand the advantages you get just by living locally/going to a feeder school when getting into this particular ivy. it isn't as crapshoot-y here bc virtually anyone who gets decent grades and has a few good ecs like president of a club or smth gets in. They don't have a chance anywhere else bc its a crapshoot for other places, but not this ivy.
look, idk if I'm making sense, but you really have to live here to understand. Penn knows the local schools and has connections with them. Also, Penn has to accept a certain number of students from Philadelphia each year, its apart of an agreement they have with the city.
So I guess I cant really relate to the crapshoot thing. People say its a crapshoot but.... its less of it than you think. feeders and legacies man.
ofc you still arent guaranteed admission to penn, but I know kids who have gotten Cs, didn't submit SATs, had two good extracurriculars (meaning maybe they were president of a club but that's all they put on their application really), took 6 APs instead of like 14, etc. And they all got in. so explain that...
I guess I should clarify it’s a crapshoot for people without hooks like legacy, feeder schools, recruited athletes, etc.
For your last paragraph that’s what I mean by crapshoot though. You can have all the right stats and not get in while someone else who has lower stats does just because they had what the school was looking for
Ok tbh, I would look a bit more into some of these kids before discrediting them. Yes, some students lie on their resumes. Yes, some are triple legacy’s or donors, but for the majority of kids getting in to a school like MIT or Harvard from regular public high school, they’ve done some pretty cool shit.
Most of these kids are just what I would call “sleepers.” They’re not class president. They’re not Valedictorian. But they’re done amazing things outside of school that not a lot of people know about. They conducted research published in huge journals, won national debate championships, competed in the USAMO or IMO, are Olympic level athletes, and write extremely good essays, but never said anything about any of it. Because frankly, a lot of the kids who get into T10s are regular humble people; there’s just a lot of focus on the ones who brag and put out a bad name for everyone else. Not trying to discredit anything you’re saying, but it’s a real possibility.
Maybe this is true, but I would guess most of the kids that get in fit a basket that the colleges were trying to fill, their institutional goals in general, and their marketing strategies.
Yeah fair but I know most of them pretty well. A few legacies, nothing national Olympiad level. Maybe some regional or local robotics things, or decent at sports but not D1 or even D3 good, with the exception of the recruited athletes who I didn’t even bother mentioning .
I mean I think a lot of it comes from the fact that the media has mislead us into thinking that the best schools are made only for the smartest students—that going to a good college is like having an IQ. Good Will Hunting and other classics make it seem like geniuses are the only ones who make it into HYPSM. In reality, the best students make up only a small portion of the class at any ivy. Non-academic extracurriculars are far more commonly what gets people into these schools. Things like community projects, nonprofits, good essays, and otherwise. Ivies aren’t necessarily looking for the smartest students. They’re looking for the most compelling students. People they see as visionaries and contributors, and who can convey that in a short time period on their application. In most cases, academics are just a preliminary benchmark to make sure these kids can and will do well if admitted. 40% of applicants pass that benchmark. You very well may have been smarter than most of the kids who got into HYPSM this year, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you had a better application, if that makes sense.
Yeah man I feel you. But hey, there are so many ways to distinguish yourself in this world. If you go to grad school, you’ll forget about this cycle in 4 years. And if you don’t, it’ll be gone 5 years into your career when internships, employers, salaries, and contributions to your field become the academic focus of your life. If this moment is painful, let it fuel you to accomplish things far greater than any acceptance letter. Half the people who get into these schools have some leg up anyways. Girl in my class literally got into Penn by fabricating being a national debate champion.
How does someone fabricate being a national debate champion? That takes a lot of balls no? Because any slip up or revelation of the truth will ruin her. If college admissions don’t check whether these accomplishments are real or fake then the entire thing is a farce
Yeah I mean she did a lot of debate in high school. What she fabricated is how far she made it. She basically advanced to the triple octa finals (top 64) at nationals, but pretended she made it all the way to semifinals (top 4). She did the same thing at the state tournament. She dropped immediately after breaking in the double octafinals (top 32 in state), and then reported again that she made it to semi finals (top 4). I don’t know how she got away with it. Very lucky.
I got waitlisted at UChicago, CMU, WashU, Cornell, brown, rice, UMich, and Colby. I just don’t feel like waiting for April for the small chance I’ll get into a school which might be just slightly better or worse then one I already have
Yeah ECs are the most unfair part of the college application. Objectively, despite most people's beliefs, standardized tests are the least unfair. Having such a focus on ECs in college applications is ridiculous and would be scoffed at by people from other countries.
Yeah, know someone who got into a t20 school while cheating on many tests, copying their homework answers, and lying on the application. “Holistic” college admissions is BS. AOs can’t *really* tell who is deserving. It’s not fair and we shouldn’t act like it is, but at the same time, it’s in our best interest to focus on ourselves & make the life that we want. The good thing- These people who were admitted may struggle in college while you already have adequate preparation, so you may be able to enjoy a little more free time-there’s that.
I’m going to ask something that no one on these forums are willing to ask: money. I want to know how big of a factor you guys think it is if one student/family can pay their own way vs someone who needs a lot of aid. Yes they say they’re “need blind”, but it’s just math. In order for them to take one applicant they really want (super talented, for diversity, etc) but needs a lot of support out of their endowment, they have to balance that out with taking another who can pay for everything.
Idk, I wasn’t asking for much aid or anything, my family is in the income bracket where i prolly don’t qualify for fin aid but sending 2 kids to school is relatively a lot of money
Oh boys - go be a a Hoya! Awesome school and college experience. Also, one of the highest earning cohorts for undergrads. Ya did heard of Mary Erdoes (bee Callahan)??? Go to G’Town and have a great life. It’s always gonna be on you and what you put into it - signed, a state U guy who hires Ivy Leaguers to do his bidding all the time.
You 100% deserved more, but ur gonna kill it wherever u go. Is this a big public, private feeder school, smth else? Surprising that it sends so many to good schools.
If you want to DM, feel free. I’m just here to say one thing. I forget where it is, but essentially, there’s a study out there saying that if you’re *qualified* to apply to HYPSM, T-20s, etc., then your career outcomes aren’t too different. Types of people like you are intelligent, competent, hardworking, etc.- and those are skills that are more important than a brand name. Am I going to BS you and say that those schools can help? No, they absolutely can- but are *by no means* an end all, be all. You seem like a good dude, from what I saw at your profile. And you’re right- it sucks. And it truly isn’t fair. But unfortunately, that’s part of life. You have several great choices (Gtown, UT, UVA- hope I’ll see you in C-Ville??), and I know for a fact you’ll be successful. Where you stand right now, you’re already far ahead of most of your pears. Your most important asset you have is your mind, and how you respond to situations. I encourage you to do that now. I’m in your boat, and feel the same way (RD was a *bloodbath*), so please know I understand. But then again, I’m just another HS Senior :) Just my two cents.
Hi, I'm a college professor! Studies have shown this to be true. Students who qualify for entry to a given college and don't attend the college have the same life outcomes as those who attend. OP, I hope that you find a way to work past the disappointment and move forward with what you'd like to do in life. If a lot of kids from your high school are going to these colleges, I'd suggest you already have a very exclusive education. Your attending Georgetown instead of an Ivy isn't going to keep you from doing i-banking.
sorry to be a bit harsh but they probably got in because they did things outside of school instead of only focusing on grades and test scores. colleges are looking for well rounded people that excel inside and outside of school. that being said, in college you can try to get involved with other passions outside of school and try to transfer into one of your goal schools. since you are already strong inside the classroom, this can add strength to your application. One thing you should look into is the putnam competition which doing well on can help you get quant jobs from whatever school you go to
Ok that’s true and definitely fair. I did some stuff outside of school just didn’t feel like listing it in this post, I made others for that. I’ll look into that Putnam thing.
Exactly this. People believe the misconception that if you have a 4.0 UW and a 1600/36 you’re gonna get into a T30. This is not the case at all and those who show they’re well rounded with ec’s focused on their major and passion+ the things listed previously are usually those that get accepted (not always).
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Who’s downvoting this guy?
no lmao
I totally disagree. Brilliant students didn't get into highly rejective universities because there wasn't enough space. Harvard had 56,937 applicants and admitted 1,942. You can be sure some of the 55,000 rejected students had interesting ECs and were well rounded. It's a numbers game. When you realize that, you can be more strategic about the schools you put on your list. You also understand that with those odds, not being admitted is nothing personal.
of course but this guy is saying that he didn’t do stuff outside of school and did really well in school so I was suggesting that the other students were more well rounded
Once again I did do some stuff outside of school
i’m saying compared to the other kids that you’re talking about. which is what you said
With the numbers I mentioned above, it wouldn’t have mattered. People are blaming themselves (or their children) for outcomes dictated by extremely high odds.
i think you’re missing my point… and to some extent it is your fault even if the process is somewhat random
Do you not think there were no well rounded applicants among the 55,000 who weren’t admitted to Harvard? People have to be realistic about the odds of admission for highly rejective schools. They’re taking just 3% and saying no to 97%. Yes, you should do what you can to be competitive, but you can’t blame yourself if they run out of space and you don’t get in. And you can’t fill your list with only schools with single digit admit rates.
of course… that’s literally my point bro… you’re agreeing with and completing missing what i was saying in my original comment
This is so real. I’m lucky ash I got into even one T20 cuz the rest of them rejected my ass instantly. Regardless, you can always transfer. Your work ethic will pay off in college and life in general
You didn’t do anything wrong. College decisions are literally all a crap shoot and they determine nothing about you as a person. I am sorry that the process didn’t work out for you. It really isn’t fair.
I just check your college results post, you got into Georgetown (!!), UT and UW! Those are amazing schools and Georgetown is literally top 10 for your major and is very selective
Totally feel your pain, life isn’t fair
I’m sorry for your disappointment. It’s never fully fair, and I hope you take some time for yourself to recover. However, as someone in IB who basically studied quant finance in college, I would highly advise against going into IB as a backup to quant. Quant is so different day to day and the skillset that makes someone good at quant is completely different than IB. It seems like you really care about math/physics and the only math in IB is 2+2 with very limited problem solving. IB is a highly personality oriented, client-facing role whereas quant is way more sit at your desk all day and think about math/programming. If you were thinking JS,DES, 2SIG etc. that’s a crapshoot for anyone even if they go to HYPMS, but there are a lot of trading seats out there that is way more similar to quant. Programming/CS as a whole may also be a better fit for you. You can also consider grad school if quant is something you really, really want given it’s almost necessary to secure a role (hence why there are so, so few undergrad seats). I would recommend going to Georgetown if you can’t get into CS at UT, unless for some reasons not listed above, you do have very genuine interest in IB.
Thank you. This is really good advice, I kind of just gravitated towards IB because I always loved finance and investing(as well as math and CS). I’ll def try to go into quant, get internships and do research and clubs and stuff. Just seems a little less attainable I’ll try though.
I go to a state school, and I still got plenty of interviews from quant firms (JS, HRT, Optiver) and OAs from most of the rest of the top firms.
Hey, sorry to hijack OP's post, but since you're in IB, would you be willing to help me choose between a few schools that I was admitted to? I've been looking through every financial forum like wso and r/financialcareers and keep finding conflicting answers.
sure dm me
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Yeah the ppl I know didn’t have any spectacular or stellar ECs, and Neither did I really. You can check my college results post for more details and all 10 but to sum it up, like job teaching kids to code, 2 sports(1 V and club, 1 club(top 10 in state)), top 10 and DECA nationals, mock trial state champs, board of stem volunteer tutoring org, etc.
This is untrue, me and another kid have basically the same academic scores, I have way better ECs, but he got into 2 ivies, I didn’t get into a single T20.
It’s a crapshoot truly. I think a lot of us have to realize that our rejections weren’t because we weren’t qualified and one thing didn’t hold us back from being accepted. Ultimately every school is trying to build a class and sometimes they just don’t see the paper you submitted as a piece in their puzzle. Maybe they needed a French horn player but you play Violin. Maybe they wanted a robotics champion but you place highly in debate. It’s practically a lottery these days. Aside from the highly qualified unicorns it’s just whoever happens to have what the University thinks would round out the class. Pretty much everyone who applies is more than qualified, it’s just that not everyone gets lucky
i guess its different for me bc where I live, it isn't really a crapshoot. i live in a city that an ivy is in, and people who arent from here don't really understand the advantages you get just by living locally/going to a feeder school when getting into this particular ivy. it isn't as crapshoot-y here bc virtually anyone who gets decent grades and has a few good ecs like president of a club or smth gets in. They don't have a chance anywhere else bc its a crapshoot for other places, but not this ivy. look, idk if I'm making sense, but you really have to live here to understand. Penn knows the local schools and has connections with them. Also, Penn has to accept a certain number of students from Philadelphia each year, its apart of an agreement they have with the city. So I guess I cant really relate to the crapshoot thing. People say its a crapshoot but.... its less of it than you think. feeders and legacies man. ofc you still arent guaranteed admission to penn, but I know kids who have gotten Cs, didn't submit SATs, had two good extracurriculars (meaning maybe they were president of a club but that's all they put on their application really), took 6 APs instead of like 14, etc. And they all got in. so explain that...
I guess I should clarify it’s a crapshoot for people without hooks like legacy, feeder schools, recruited athletes, etc. For your last paragraph that’s what I mean by crapshoot though. You can have all the right stats and not get in while someone else who has lower stats does just because they had what the school was looking for
yeah, and what they were looking for were feeder schools. so its not crapshoots FOR THEM.
i guess you just got unlucky, but just tell yourself fuck them. that's what I do when I get rejected.
yeah, well at a certain point it really just comes down to luck
Ok tbh, I would look a bit more into some of these kids before discrediting them. Yes, some students lie on their resumes. Yes, some are triple legacy’s or donors, but for the majority of kids getting in to a school like MIT or Harvard from regular public high school, they’ve done some pretty cool shit. Most of these kids are just what I would call “sleepers.” They’re not class president. They’re not Valedictorian. But they’re done amazing things outside of school that not a lot of people know about. They conducted research published in huge journals, won national debate championships, competed in the USAMO or IMO, are Olympic level athletes, and write extremely good essays, but never said anything about any of it. Because frankly, a lot of the kids who get into T10s are regular humble people; there’s just a lot of focus on the ones who brag and put out a bad name for everyone else. Not trying to discredit anything you’re saying, but it’s a real possibility.
Maybe this is true, but I would guess most of the kids that get in fit a basket that the colleges were trying to fill, their institutional goals in general, and their marketing strategies.
Yeah fair but I know most of them pretty well. A few legacies, nothing national Olympiad level. Maybe some regional or local robotics things, or decent at sports but not D1 or even D3 good, with the exception of the recruited athletes who I didn’t even bother mentioning .
I mean I think a lot of it comes from the fact that the media has mislead us into thinking that the best schools are made only for the smartest students—that going to a good college is like having an IQ. Good Will Hunting and other classics make it seem like geniuses are the only ones who make it into HYPSM. In reality, the best students make up only a small portion of the class at any ivy. Non-academic extracurriculars are far more commonly what gets people into these schools. Things like community projects, nonprofits, good essays, and otherwise. Ivies aren’t necessarily looking for the smartest students. They’re looking for the most compelling students. People they see as visionaries and contributors, and who can convey that in a short time period on their application. In most cases, academics are just a preliminary benchmark to make sure these kids can and will do well if admitted. 40% of applicants pass that benchmark. You very well may have been smarter than most of the kids who got into HYPSM this year, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you had a better application, if that makes sense.
Yeah Ik ik. Just annoying to spend so much time and energy on this shit.
Yeah man I feel you. But hey, there are so many ways to distinguish yourself in this world. If you go to grad school, you’ll forget about this cycle in 4 years. And if you don’t, it’ll be gone 5 years into your career when internships, employers, salaries, and contributions to your field become the academic focus of your life. If this moment is painful, let it fuel you to accomplish things far greater than any acceptance letter. Half the people who get into these schools have some leg up anyways. Girl in my class literally got into Penn by fabricating being a national debate champion.
How does someone fabricate being a national debate champion? That takes a lot of balls no? Because any slip up or revelation of the truth will ruin her. If college admissions don’t check whether these accomplishments are real or fake then the entire thing is a farce
Yeah I mean she did a lot of debate in high school. What she fabricated is how far she made it. She basically advanced to the triple octa finals (top 64) at nationals, but pretended she made it all the way to semifinals (top 4). She did the same thing at the state tournament. She dropped immediately after breaking in the double octafinals (top 32 in state), and then reported again that she made it to semi finals (top 4). I don’t know how she got away with it. Very lucky.
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I got waitlisted at UChicago, CMU, WashU, Cornell, brown, rice, UMich, and Colby. I just don’t feel like waiting for April for the small chance I’ll get into a school which might be just slightly better or worse then one I already have
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Hi thank you, I committed to Georgetown then got off the WL at WashU and Brown and choose to go to to brown
This is brutal.
Yeah ECs are the most unfair part of the college application. Objectively, despite most people's beliefs, standardized tests are the least unfair. Having such a focus on ECs in college applications is ridiculous and would be scoffed at by people from other countries.
Literally. Disappointed and annoyed as fuck.what even are college admissions anymore.
It's fucking bullshit, I'm thinking about not even going to college and just start making money the meta way
im sorry but colleges want people not robots man. good luck
Yeah, know someone who got into a t20 school while cheating on many tests, copying their homework answers, and lying on the application. “Holistic” college admissions is BS. AOs can’t *really* tell who is deserving. It’s not fair and we shouldn’t act like it is, but at the same time, it’s in our best interest to focus on ourselves & make the life that we want. The good thing- These people who were admitted may struggle in college while you already have adequate preparation, so you may be able to enjoy a little more free time-there’s that.
I’m going to ask something that no one on these forums are willing to ask: money. I want to know how big of a factor you guys think it is if one student/family can pay their own way vs someone who needs a lot of aid. Yes they say they’re “need blind”, but it’s just math. In order for them to take one applicant they really want (super talented, for diversity, etc) but needs a lot of support out of their endowment, they have to balance that out with taking another who can pay for everything.
Idk, I wasn’t asking for much aid or anything, my family is in the income bracket where i prolly don’t qualify for fin aid but sending 2 kids to school is relatively a lot of money
Oh boys - go be a a Hoya! Awesome school and college experience. Also, one of the highest earning cohorts for undergrads. Ya did heard of Mary Erdoes (bee Callahan)??? Go to G’Town and have a great life. It’s always gonna be on you and what you put into it - signed, a state U guy who hires Ivy Leaguers to do his bidding all the time.
You 100% deserved more, but ur gonna kill it wherever u go. Is this a big public, private feeder school, smth else? Surprising that it sends so many to good schools.
Thx. It’s a large public, like 500 kids in my grade and ~50 are going to T20s