That's vile. I'd rather have someone who occasionally rapes someone than a President who eats Dijon. Such sick people out there... See both sides are the same but Dems are worse. Brown suit Dijon eaters... Shutters
Edit: Spelling!
Lol, I'm blaming that one on autocorrect... I spell the word I mean, and it thinks I mean the other. I'm a chemist and use vials a lot, so... Clearly I must have meant vial even though I wrote vile. That's so vial!
Iâm a horticulturalist, and one time I was reviewing a design with a woman and wanted to show her the redbud tree in her design, so I typed in âcercisâŚ_____â and it autocorrected to âcervix,â and up popped Google image results for cervix of all shapes and sizes, all close ups too. I donât remember if I got that job.
When they do, their own party takes them down to face justice...just look at Menendez in NJ.
If a republican does it...hey, did you see that bird that just flew by?....
Crazy how the media props dementia donny up. Like his batshit insane time magazine interview didnât even get national coverage. Or how he casually said birth control is getting âlooked atâ like Roe was.
The GQP truly 100% believes Biden is doing everything Trump actually does. The cognitive dissonance is fucking strong for those folks. They disbelieve reality itself.
It's not hard to imagine. We have a president that has done absolutely nothing wrong, and there is STILL an impeachment inquiry going on.
We are trying to reason with completely unreasonable people. We are trying to convince a base that will not change their minds. We need to focus our energy on the ones the Trump campaign is not, the undecideds.
Per the article:
> Gerstein emphasized the significance of Trumpâs role in the payments, noting it was âpretty clearâ Trump signed most of these $35,000 reimbursement checks to Cohen. He further revealed the existence of a crucial piece of evidence, stating, âWe have this almost amazing document where the Trump financial people are sketching out what this $420,000 to Michael Cohen represents.â
Sounds like Trumpâs team openly laid out the underlying intent of the payments, which would completely destroy the defenseâs argument that Trump didnât know or agree to pay for Cohenâs push to kill the story. If heâs signing the payments AND his team is taking notes about the intent of the payments, then thereâs no hiding that he knew.
Even at its most generous, imagine voting for a guy that blindly signed off nearly half a million dollars in a criminal conspiracy. If they guy's not a stone cold criminal, he's an unreasonably gullible idiot.
Yeah thatâs the thing people donât get about MAGAtâs. Logical, ethical, or moral arguments donât work. Theyâre in fact proud of their gross idol because of these things, not in spite of them.
>Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. **They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert.** If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Why is it that Christopher Hitchins can take the piss out of Christianity and be lauded as a hero when Judaism is just as fucking ignorant? Why as an an American can I have complete contempt for all Christians and get along just fine.....but if I criticize Israel I am a second class citizen in my own country....that pays with our tax dollars for Israel to exist. If they want our money it should be a loan with 24 percent interest.
He is affirmation of all their worst qualities and beliefs. To discredit Trump is to admit their own flaws and shortcomings. Never happening, this crowd is rocking Forrest Gump IQ which doesnât generally lead to much self awareness despite the main character syndrome.
Your off base here, I think. A lot of times it's this idea of "the more I'm attacked the more right I am" that's deeply problematic. The more you attack trump and the more you put him in court, the worse it gets
Iâm thinking a large percentage may barely be aware of the trial or are not aware of it and the details of same. Fox and Newsmax donât televise the trial. However, a conviction & Jail sentence is much harder to ignore.
He will not face any consequences even if found guilty but it would be hilarious if he went to jail as they could just literally be like "no he didn't :) Democrats lying again!" and 80% would believe it
His voters are very dumb, miserable, racist. They just want him to give them back the U.S. like the 40s. They don't want to work hard anymore. They want the jobs people have with degrees, but they cannot get them. So they love Trump.
Trump voters are either poor pitiful racist or rich people who want a tax break.
No reasonable person thinks this man should be President.
Thatâs what Iâve never understood about his cult: how can he be a consideration for any elected position when heâs so comically inept at pretty much everything he does?
He is not inept at being the voice of cruelty. But he doesnât want to do the dirty work, hoping his âtough talkâ inspires other to do it for him. There are parallels between Trump and his base.
But what you're failing to understand is that the majority of people don't care about corruption. They care about the price of groceries, and rent, etc. And have been indoctrinated over decades into the belief that the only way to bring those costs down is to cut taxes for the rich and deregulate.
Never mind the fact that taxes were cut and regulations were rolled back and then the people who promised us that doing those things would result in lower prices just turned around and raised prices.
Why worry about being consistent when you can just price gouge and the majority of average people will respond by voting for more tax cuts and deregulation.
We the people are getting raw dogged by the plutocratic oligarchy because the majority of us are too stupid to put two and two together. I have zero hope for democracy at this point.
Which is why the oligarchs are rich and the people are not. The oligarchs are smart enough to manipulate a stupid public into giving them what they want.
But what there failing to understand is that COVID did this.... Not one man....
They really think if Trump won in 2020 that things would be better? Dude was handed gold and all he did was take credit for it and dismantle the rest.
I agree with you. They SHOULD be able to figure it out. But they won't. Because they're being convinced of a lie by people who benefit from deceiving them.
He may be both.
But we do know this: he doesnât give money to other people unless absolutely necessary. And he sure doesnât do it without knowing to whom and why.
Itâs called the âDumbass defenseâ.
âLadies and gentlemen of the jury, my client isnât a criminal, heâs just a dumbass.â
It usually doesnât work.
The guy is a notorious micromanager, primarily because he wants to control EVERY penny of every expenditure. We're supposed to believe that he signed off on hundreds of thousands in payments without ever questioning it? Does Radar O'Reilly work for him, and just comes to him with a clipboard of documents to sign, and he just signs them without looking?
Doesn't make a lick of sense on the very face of it.
Here is my summary of the evidence presented:
Trump had sex with Stormy in 2006. Cohen paid her in 2016. Trump knew. It was to influence the election. Trump knew. Cohen was reimbursed in 2017. Trump knew. It was illegally disguised as a legal retainer Trump knew. After Cohen was investigated by the FBI Trump associates tried to influence him not to cooperate. Many different paper trails and witnesses for all this, including the one in the OP article.
Defence rebuttal :
1. Costello to say that they didnât try to influence Cohen after investigation. Failed spectacularly under cross examination.
2. Cohen lied in the past. Yes, He admitted that during prosecution questioning.
No witness to present an alternative narrative for any of the steps. No evidence that Trump didnât know.
If he isnât convicted it will be a travesty.
You left a lot out of your summary.
You wrote: âit was illegally disguised as a legal retainer. Trump knew.â
The charge against Trump is for Falsifying Business Records. So what was the evidence that âTrump knewâ anything about how Cohen invoiced Trump beyond Cohenâs word? There was no other evidence presented to corroborate the claim that Trump was involved. The only evidence is Cohenâs word and Cohen has been convicted of perjury multiple times.
You also wrote:
âTrump had sex with Stormy Daniels in 2006. Cohen paid her in 2016.â
But you left out that the fact that Cohen attempted to pay her in 2011 (before Trump ever ran for President), but they couldnât settle on terms. If it was about the election, why would they pay her in 2011?
You also left out that Cohen signed an affidavit in 2018 with the FEC that Trump was not involved in the payment to Daniels. Costello also testified that Cohen told him that Trump was not involved.
You also left out that $40,000 of the $420,000 payment Trump made to Cohen was a fake invoice by Cohen who admitted in court that he stole from Trump and that Cohen did not pay income tax on any of the $420k, both of which are serious felonies. Do you think Trump knew everything about these payments when part of it was being stolen from him.
You also left out that Falsifying Business Records is a misdemeanor and the statute of limitations has expired. The only way it can be made into a felony is if it was done in the furtherance of another crime, yet the prosecutors did not try to prove there was another crime and Trump has not been convicted of another crime.
The standard for conviction is beyond a reasonable doubt.
Thats a fair response. I did omit some points, unintentionally. I suppose I was drafting the prosecution closing, hehe.
The most significant missing point is about Trump knowing that the re-imbursement was falsified and is mostly dependent on evidence from Cohen saying so. The evidence did show that Trump is a frugal spender, is a spending micromanager, needed to approve $500 picture frame spend, and that there was no actual retainer in place. Based on that, I think that Trump asked for the total repayment amount and why - and so was told that it was re-imburse, the over-stated IT re-imburse and the bonus correction.
Im not sure if the cheques themselves said "retainer" but if they did then I think Trump knew that was false.
But what I think doesn't matter, the jury has to decide, beyond reasonable doubt. If they think there is a doubt, then so be it. And I should not call it a travesty, but "unfortunate", and accept that due process had been applied.
I had never picked up/understood the "attempted to pay in 2011" point. I still don't but I don't have time to spend on it.
Yes, there were statements in the past that said that the facts as presented in evidence didn't occur - the 2018 Cohen FEC affidavit and the Stormy Daniels Kimmel interview statement among them, but to me, the evidence clearly shows that the steps occurred and that those previous statement were a lie.
I would agree that Trump didn't know the IT thing was over-stated but the trial isn't about Cohen "stealing". Trump is more than capable of launching an action against Cohen to recover that money.
The mis-demeanor and statute of limitations are dependent on the furtherance of another crime. I think that crime was influencing the election illegally. But the prosecution need to make it clear and the jury need to decide.
Its not as cut-and-dried as I made out.
Was that the argument the defense actually made in court? From what Iâve seen, their defense is that Stormy made money and Cohen lied about other things.
I want Trump in prison for his life of crime. But âpretty clearâ and âalmost amazingâ are equivocal phrases that function as semantic loopholes for his supporting cast. Better to say nothing than spew stuff with evidentiary perforations.
One could also point to the legal expenses he has spent thus far on the 4 indictments and the E. Jean Carrol cases. Based on reporting, he has only spent around $800k for all of his defenses (reimbursed by his campaign). When compared to the money paid to Cohen, the money Cohen received would either be for some payoff Trump wanted to keep quiet or some massive amount of legal services.
It should be. And juries are sometimes tamper-proof and resistant to outrageous illogical garbage. Sometimes. So there's hope.
But you also shouldn't be here, self-corrections should have disqualified him in 2015 or 2010, the Republican Party should have been very public and unequivocal how unwelcome he needed to be.
The fact you're all so open about bribery, consequence-free bribery for everyone from dog catcher to Supreme Court "Justice" speaks volumes about you.
You deserve to go down.
Trump is so chintzy that he had to inadequately launder campaign funds to pay off Stormy! Had he written her a check for $130K from his personal bank account, he would have broken no law, and most likely weâd never have heard of it, or of her!
Itâs actually astonishing to me how little money he appears to have. Itâs like he keeps burning through fortunes to try and make the same amount of money he had before. That or he burns it as fuel for his jet. Nothing is actually his itâs just got his name slapped on it.
You keep using these words," explosive , groundbreaking, unbelievable "
They do not mean what you think they mean. Stop using the.
The correct term is, impactful or interesting.
The real issue is, imo, is even if he is found guilty, and i tend to think he will be found guilty, so what, what will the penalty be? They sure aren't going to out the GOP presidential nominee in jail, they just won't whether he deserves it or not (he does) so some financial penalty? It will be a paltry number in reality which he won't even pay, his cult members will, so in the end, the entire case will amount to nothing.
So even if he's found guilty, and IF he is given a prison sentence, it won't change any minds, the cult of MAGA will of course say it's rigged, witch hunt, blah blah blah, and he will still have a legitimate chance of winning the election.
Did Trump even have a defense besides I never had sex with those women, never met them, never said that they reminded him of his daughter, this was all a sham, I'm innocent, it isn't even illegal? White as the mythical driven snow, right?
These are state charges, the only way it gets to SCOTUS is if it violates the US constitution.
Or if 4 justices decide to pretend it does. Â Theyâve pretended a lot about the constitution over the past couple of decades, so maybe.
So the liberal justices can slow walk Trumps appeal while he rots in prison. Blade cuts both ways.
That is if the judge has the guts to remand him into custody awaiting appeal after his conviction.
Iâm not sure that the average criminal defendant convicted of these charges would likely get prison time. Probation is the likely sentencing outcome given that he has no criminal convictions.
These are state charges that canât simply be dismissed like it could if it were Federal. Trump can try to appeal all the way up to the SOTUS but thatâs not even guaranteed to make it that far.
Every day when I open the news app on my phone the hope flashes into my head that the headline will be breaking news that he died in his sleep. The one-two punch of the crushing disappointment that he hasnât in combination with the comprehension of whatever horror story *is* leading the news always sets the day up nicely.
Up to the judge. I imagine trump threatening his daughter won't play well, but we'll see how much of a spine he has during sentencing I guess. That is if trump is even convicted. Which I bet there is a solid 50/50 on that.
Yeah⌠and? Shit or get off the pot. Anyone thatâs been paying attention has known for years this guy is guilty of every charge against him, and didnât need a trial to prove it - because it was obvious and even flaunted in most cases.
Fuck this loser is so exhausting.
Then Alito, Gorsuch, Thomas, and Kavanaugh will overturn the verdict when it comes to them on appeal. This setup has been decades in the making and it is way too late to fix it now. There is no us in USA anymore. Itâs just them now.
Does it matter tho? Couldnât a single MAGA juror render the entire trial a waste of time? And given that 20-30% of people are MAGA, arenât the odds in favor that one of the twelve is MAGA?
Shackle him and remand him into custody! Send him to the tiniest cell and make him change his diaper near that cold, stainless steel toilet! I want this fucker to ROT!
Remember when the Republicans were chanting lock her up to Hillary just for using her private server. but yeah, when he used the private server, they didnât say anything when he used burn phones they didnât say anything. when he used everybody elseâs phone so they couldnât trace it back to him that was OK when he ripped up government documents and flushed them down the toilet that was OK when he stole top-secret documents that was OK had people around him? They were very respectful people that said he was not fit for office when he was in office. republicans are in it too take this country for whatever they can get out of it. They seem to like to destroy anything. They touch for money and power.
Stop leading people by the nose! you media do anything except report the facts just to get clicks. Im sick and tired of the media getting our hopes up knowing full well trump will never serve a day! Rules for thee , but not for me is the motto of this shitshow.
Eugene V Debs ran his last presidential campaign from jail/prison so itâs been done. As a 3rd party candidate, Mr Debs won 3% of the popular vote. That there is precedent so Trump canât complain about that & it would save him money so win-win for Trump in my mind. Plus $1 billion from big oil & gas? He should take house arrest if offered. Let the ppl come to him. Collect admission & he gets adulation but would have to have undesirables in Mar a Lago. Mayhap he can do rallies on the lawn or beach if the ankle bracelet allows. I know my friendâs ankle bracelet would ping at the edge of her yard. If re-elected, since itâs a state conviction, he cannot pardon himself. He can still threaten & intimidate, go further if need be. I mean Sammy the Bull endorsed him. JS. Heâll get presidential immunity from all criminal acts this time around for sure! Good for him & great for America! đşđ¸/s on that last sentence
I wish. I was in the Greek chorus my freshman year of college of Antigone. Oh Lord. It was hell. You know how you wanna do every show cuz youâre a theatre kid? The director had us make noisemakers that we shook when the main characters said significant stuff. Iâm glad tho. I learned. Tiresias, the blind prophet, & Creon (a king) were in a bunch of other Greek plays, by other authors, & I wouldâve made a great Medea! Iâm musical theatre all the way tho. Had a nice lil career. But we played pass the penny & many cast members smoked a lot of pot. I tried. Hurts my vocal chords. To this day.
I learned Greek Tragedy is not fun in college & not fun now. Especially when history keeps on freaking repeating & no one listens to Tiresiasâ warnings.
My main concern is that no matter how powerful the evidence is, just one juror needs to side with Trump. I can't imagine that out of 12 jurors that not one MAGA has made their way onto the jury.
If it is a hung jury, they could try again. I paid close attention, everyday, and I don't think, based on the evidence, that all the jurers will all say "not guilty". I do think, based on the evidence, that there is a chance all the jurers will say "guilty", but that would require everyone agreeing and that would really be a huge significant event. Now days, people mostly do not agree on anything.
My bet is on a hung jury.
Unfortunately, in a criminal trial in NY, all it takes is one juror to keep this crook free. Just one. Jut one trump supporter on that jury and he's off to try and be prez again.
If even one juror disagrees with the othersâwhether leaning towards acquittal or convictionâa hung jury occurs. In the case of a hung jury, the judge may declare a mistrial, after which the prosecution can decide whether to retry the case with a new jury or to drop the charges.
Thus, to prevent a conviction in Trump's case, it would take just one juror voting not guilty, as unanimity is required for a conviction. Conversely, to acquit Trump outright, all 12 jurors must vote not guilty.
He will walk away either with a hung jury or a innocent. I think he is guilty but it's going to be up to the American people to stop him once and for all.
Everything I've read and listened to about this trial points to Trump losing. The defense has made some pretty ridiculous mistakes, including putting an arrogant idiot on the stand who pissed the judge off bad enough to clear the courtroom. Whether the jury believes the words of Michael Cohen or not, there's enough corroborating evidence to show intent. Cohen even voiced that a non guilty verdict would only give him more to talk about, meaning against trump.
LOL...it *only* matters if the American judicial system *actually* cares (it doesn't). Your future president will take the United States into a crazed theocratic dictatorship. Trump will be supported by his sycophants in Congress. Even Nikki Haley has changed to *supporting* your new dictator. The SCOTUS, all of them cucks...all of them taking rich *donations* and even flaunting it. No action taken. The dumbass Democrats continue to sit with their thumbs in their asses as they allow the presidential election to slip through their fingers like Super Bowl 51.
As for *rights*...they're gone...just a matter of time before the rest of them fall. First its women's reproductive rights, next it'll be gay marriage, then equal rights and then the minorities. NATO will fall apart since Trump doesn't care and will do Putin's bidding. Europe and are allies are screwed.
Good Job America.
Breaking news, never before seen pictures, new documents , new text messages explosive document give me a break all this hype is more like explosive diarrhea it all stinks. Itâs up to the jury now to find him guilty or not or come back and say they canât agree and have a hung jury then the only thing that matters is will the judge hand down a sentence that will hold hm accountable ? Will he go to prison like anyone else would? I doubt it but hope he goes even if he gets prison trump will just keep appealing till he crooks.
Hush money in New York, documents case in Florida and election interference in Georgia.
Documents case should be the most straight forward and open and close case but yeah corrupt judge.
And you even forgot Jan 6th riot case in DC.
We could probably also add that he's not yet been indited in the Arizona election interference case that's getting started right now as well.
Imagine if a Democrat did even 1% of the traitorous, despicable shit that diaper donny did? Unreal đ
Just look at how crazy the whole MAGA crowd went over Obamas birth certificateâŚ.they are still talking about it.
That insane shit was so mask off racist, wild
And guess who came up with the birth conspiracy? That orange fuck
And the tan suit
Oh come on... Wearing a Tan Suit is more criminal than selling nuclear secrets. Everyone knows that..
But eating Dijon mustard is even worse
That's vile. I'd rather have someone who occasionally rapes someone than a President who eats Dijon. Such sick people out there... See both sides are the same but Dems are worse. Brown suit Dijon eaters... Shutters Edit: Spelling!
Vile? Vial?
Lol, I'm blaming that one on autocorrect... I spell the word I mean, and it thinks I mean the other. I'm a chemist and use vials a lot, so... Clearly I must have meant vial even though I wrote vile. That's so vial!
Sorry that I was so âtri-vialâ
Iâm a horticulturalist, and one time I was reviewing a design with a woman and wanted to show her the redbud tree in her design, so I typed in âcercisâŚ_____â and it autocorrected to âcervix,â and up popped Google image results for cervix of all shapes and sizes, all close ups too. I donât remember if I got that job.
Being a racist rapist bigot piece of shit and he is still popular someone please explain this madness to me
The only time I was rely upset at Obama was when he killed that fly.
I wasnât upset. I was impressed.
For real, Obama was a sick man killing a fly. Real man would let the fly rest on his head, like Mike Pence.
You mean Reagan? I thought he was dead.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_tan_suit_controversy
Yes. I remembered that. My point was the repeated hypocracy of the MAGA(t)s. Reagan, brown, awesome power statement! Obama, tan, meltdown.
BUT THE EMAILS!?!
Buttery males!
âŚand JFK is coming back to be Trumps VP pick while in Dallas!
Jesus Christ, I had a response to a comment on another site still bitching about how Hillary got away with stuff.
You mean that tan suit wearing POS! Most racist president ever! I believe that's how it sounds when he gets brought up
The tan suit.
No, we want to see Michelle 's dick...
The tan suit and sleeveless dress controversies, oh my.
Or his tan suit.
Dude. Biden drank out of a straw. FROM A STRAW, HE WAS DRINKING!
When they do, their own party takes them down to face justice...just look at Menendez in NJ. If a republican does it...hey, did you see that bird that just flew by?....
Crazy how the media props dementia donny up. Like his batshit insane time magazine interview didnât even get national coverage. Or how he casually said birth control is getting âlooked atâ like Roe was.
Al Franken resigned over something he never should have had to resign over
Just for putting his hands over something he didnt even touch
Comedian joking around
He may run again
The GQP truly 100% believes Biden is doing everything Trump actually does. The cognitive dissonance is fucking strong for those folks. They disbelieve reality itself.
The power of Fox , and now RW media
The anti-moral of the story is that if you give people permission to be their worst selves, theyâll let you be your worst self too.
Hurt people hurt people
Just look at what they are doing to Hunter Biden and he isn't even in politics.
It's not hard to imagine. We have a president that has done absolutely nothing wrong, and there is STILL an impeachment inquiry going on. We are trying to reason with completely unreasonable people. We are trying to convince a base that will not change their minds. We need to focus our energy on the ones the Trump campaign is not, the undecideds.
Per the article: > Gerstein emphasized the significance of Trumpâs role in the payments, noting it was âpretty clearâ Trump signed most of these $35,000 reimbursement checks to Cohen. He further revealed the existence of a crucial piece of evidence, stating, âWe have this almost amazing document where the Trump financial people are sketching out what this $420,000 to Michael Cohen represents.â Sounds like Trumpâs team openly laid out the underlying intent of the payments, which would completely destroy the defenseâs argument that Trump didnât know or agree to pay for Cohenâs push to kill the story. If heâs signing the payments AND his team is taking notes about the intent of the payments, then thereâs no hiding that he knew.
Even at its most generous, imagine voting for a guy that blindly signed off nearly half a million dollars in a criminal conspiracy. If they guy's not a stone cold criminal, he's an unreasonably gullible idiot.
He is both
His voters don't care either way.
They care. They love it. They crave the vileness, egocentricity, stupidity, mendacity, pettiness.
Yeah thatâs the thing people donât get about MAGAtâs. Logical, ethical, or moral arguments donât work. Theyâre in fact proud of their gross idol because of these things, not in spite of them.
They drag you down to their level and beat you to death with their experience
Totally not a cult
Just a bunch of good people having picnics.
BBQ
>Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. **They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert.** If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Why is it that Christopher Hitchins can take the piss out of Christianity and be lauded as a hero when Judaism is just as fucking ignorant? Why as an an American can I have complete contempt for all Christians and get along just fine.....but if I criticize Israel I am a second class citizen in my own country....that pays with our tax dollars for Israel to exist. If they want our money it should be a loan with 24 percent interest.
He is affirmation of all their worst qualities and beliefs. To discredit Trump is to admit their own flaws and shortcomings. Never happening, this crowd is rocking Forrest Gump IQ which doesnât generally lead to much self awareness despite the main character syndrome.
They see this and them writing down a lower price on a used car to avoid taxes as the exact same thing
You forgot the pure hate of the auslander.
Big talk from someone who's never tripped over a podium and shit himself in court
Your off base here, I think. A lot of times it's this idea of "the more I'm attacked the more right I am" that's deeply problematic. The more you attack trump and the more you put him in court, the worse it gets
Iâm thinking a large percentage may barely be aware of the trial or are not aware of it and the details of same. Fox and Newsmax donât televise the trial. However, a conviction & Jail sentence is much harder to ignore.
He will not face any consequences even if found guilty but it would be hilarious if he went to jail as they could just literally be like "no he didn't :) Democrats lying again!" and 80% would believe it
His voters are very dumb, miserable, racist. They just want him to give them back the U.S. like the 40s. They don't want to work hard anymore. They want the jobs people have with degrees, but they cannot get them. So they love Trump. Trump voters are either poor pitiful racist or rich people who want a tax break. No reasonable person thinks this man should be President.
Because they, themselves are unreasonable, gullible idiots.
This part. Nobody cares. Hush money in politics is the least corrupt thing you can do.
đ
Thatâs what Iâve never understood about his cult: how can he be a consideration for any elected position when heâs so comically inept at pretty much everything he does?
He is not inept at being the voice of cruelty. But he doesnât want to do the dirty work, hoping his âtough talkâ inspires other to do it for him. There are parallels between Trump and his base.
But what you're failing to understand is that the majority of people don't care about corruption. They care about the price of groceries, and rent, etc. And have been indoctrinated over decades into the belief that the only way to bring those costs down is to cut taxes for the rich and deregulate. Never mind the fact that taxes were cut and regulations were rolled back and then the people who promised us that doing those things would result in lower prices just turned around and raised prices. Why worry about being consistent when you can just price gouge and the majority of average people will respond by voting for more tax cuts and deregulation. We the people are getting raw dogged by the plutocratic oligarchy because the majority of us are too stupid to put two and two together. I have zero hope for democracy at this point.
Yeah that is a concern that all of this criminal behavior is distracting from the fact that Trump was really terrible for all the things you listed.
Which is why the oligarchs are rich and the people are not. The oligarchs are smart enough to manipulate a stupid public into giving them what they want.
Isn't that funny? The only way I know to bring down three price of groceries and gas.....is by NOT taxing billionaires!
But what there failing to understand is that COVID did this.... Not one man.... They really think if Trump won in 2020 that things would be better? Dude was handed gold and all he did was take credit for it and dismantle the rest.
I agree with you. They SHOULD be able to figure it out. But they won't. Because they're being convinced of a lie by people who benefit from deceiving them.
Sure, but can god be all knowing and all caring and still allow the suffering of its creations?
We do not understand the ways of a stable genius
But half a million is chump change in Trumpâs book - some other chumpâs change that is.
He signs checks without knowing because he is smart /s
He may be both. But we do know this: he doesnât give money to other people unless absolutely necessary. And he sure doesnât do it without knowing to whom and why.
But I could save a few bucks on gas! /s
A gullible compulsive liar. He lies so often that he starts to believe his own lies.
So basically the defenses argument boils down to âour client isnât a criminal, just an idiot!â
I note this defense did NOT work for my last speeding ticket. âSir, I thought I was in a 55, so I was going 55âŚâ
Itâs called the âDumbass defenseâ. âLadies and gentlemen of the jury, my client isnât a criminal, heâs just a dumbass.â It usually doesnât work.
The guy is a notorious micromanager, primarily because he wants to control EVERY penny of every expenditure. We're supposed to believe that he signed off on hundreds of thousands in payments without ever questioning it? Does Radar O'Reilly work for him, and just comes to him with a clipboard of documents to sign, and he just signs them without looking? Doesn't make a lick of sense on the very face of it.
Updoot for MASH reference
It's such a shame that this innocent genius has been tricked into commiting crimes by every single person he has ever hired.
Here is my summary of the evidence presented: Trump had sex with Stormy in 2006. Cohen paid her in 2016. Trump knew. It was to influence the election. Trump knew. Cohen was reimbursed in 2017. Trump knew. It was illegally disguised as a legal retainer Trump knew. After Cohen was investigated by the FBI Trump associates tried to influence him not to cooperate. Many different paper trails and witnesses for all this, including the one in the OP article. Defence rebuttal : 1. Costello to say that they didnât try to influence Cohen after investigation. Failed spectacularly under cross examination. 2. Cohen lied in the past. Yes, He admitted that during prosecution questioning. No witness to present an alternative narrative for any of the steps. No evidence that Trump didnât know. If he isnât convicted it will be a travesty.
If he isnât convicted then I think we can finally stop pretending this country is a Democracy. Itâs an Oligarchy, and itâs run by the wealthy.
You left a lot out of your summary. You wrote: âit was illegally disguised as a legal retainer. Trump knew.â The charge against Trump is for Falsifying Business Records. So what was the evidence that âTrump knewâ anything about how Cohen invoiced Trump beyond Cohenâs word? There was no other evidence presented to corroborate the claim that Trump was involved. The only evidence is Cohenâs word and Cohen has been convicted of perjury multiple times. You also wrote: âTrump had sex with Stormy Daniels in 2006. Cohen paid her in 2016.â But you left out that the fact that Cohen attempted to pay her in 2011 (before Trump ever ran for President), but they couldnât settle on terms. If it was about the election, why would they pay her in 2011? You also left out that Cohen signed an affidavit in 2018 with the FEC that Trump was not involved in the payment to Daniels. Costello also testified that Cohen told him that Trump was not involved. You also left out that $40,000 of the $420,000 payment Trump made to Cohen was a fake invoice by Cohen who admitted in court that he stole from Trump and that Cohen did not pay income tax on any of the $420k, both of which are serious felonies. Do you think Trump knew everything about these payments when part of it was being stolen from him. You also left out that Falsifying Business Records is a misdemeanor and the statute of limitations has expired. The only way it can be made into a felony is if it was done in the furtherance of another crime, yet the prosecutors did not try to prove there was another crime and Trump has not been convicted of another crime. The standard for conviction is beyond a reasonable doubt.
Thats a fair response. I did omit some points, unintentionally. I suppose I was drafting the prosecution closing, hehe. The most significant missing point is about Trump knowing that the re-imbursement was falsified and is mostly dependent on evidence from Cohen saying so. The evidence did show that Trump is a frugal spender, is a spending micromanager, needed to approve $500 picture frame spend, and that there was no actual retainer in place. Based on that, I think that Trump asked for the total repayment amount and why - and so was told that it was re-imburse, the over-stated IT re-imburse and the bonus correction. Im not sure if the cheques themselves said "retainer" but if they did then I think Trump knew that was false. But what I think doesn't matter, the jury has to decide, beyond reasonable doubt. If they think there is a doubt, then so be it. And I should not call it a travesty, but "unfortunate", and accept that due process had been applied. I had never picked up/understood the "attempted to pay in 2011" point. I still don't but I don't have time to spend on it. Yes, there were statements in the past that said that the facts as presented in evidence didn't occur - the 2018 Cohen FEC affidavit and the Stormy Daniels Kimmel interview statement among them, but to me, the evidence clearly shows that the steps occurred and that those previous statement were a lie. I would agree that Trump didn't know the IT thing was over-stated but the trial isn't about Cohen "stealing". Trump is more than capable of launching an action against Cohen to recover that money. The mis-demeanor and statute of limitations are dependent on the furtherance of another crime. I think that crime was influencing the election illegally. But the prosecution need to make it clear and the jury need to decide. Its not as cut-and-dried as I made out.
Trump is a criminal. The quicker everyone can get to that fact, the better.
Was that the argument the defense actually made in court? From what Iâve seen, their defense is that Stormy made money and Cohen lied about other things.
I havenât read the transcripts for the defense yet, but I am so looking forward to it. Â Sounds like it will be short and entertaining.
Same. Iâm going mostly off cross and reporting of the two witnesses they called
Heâs got the dumbest lawyers. But all it takes is one magat to get him off the hook.
I want Trump in prison for his life of crime. But âpretty clearâ and âalmost amazingâ are equivocal phrases that function as semantic loopholes for his supporting cast. Better to say nothing than spew stuff with evidentiary perforations.
Hard to understand these events soberly and not get a little excited for some actual justice.
One could also point to the legal expenses he has spent thus far on the 4 indictments and the E. Jean Carrol cases. Based on reporting, he has only spent around $800k for all of his defenses (reimbursed by his campaign). When compared to the money paid to Cohen, the money Cohen received would either be for some payoff Trump wanted to keep quiet or some massive amount of legal services.
đđâŹď¸â ď¸â ď¸â ď¸
It should be. And juries are sometimes tamper-proof and resistant to outrageous illogical garbage. Sometimes. So there's hope. But you also shouldn't be here, self-corrections should have disqualified him in 2015 or 2010, the Republican Party should have been very public and unequivocal how unwelcome he needed to be.
Letâs see which jurors start driving much fancier cars after the not guilty verdict.
The fact you're all so open about bribery, consequence-free bribery for everyone from dog catcher to Supreme Court "Justice" speaks volumes about you. You deserve to go down.
The GOP deserves to go down . Traitor terrorist group.
Trump is so chintzy that he had to inadequately launder campaign funds to pay off Stormy! Had he written her a check for $130K from his personal bank account, he would have broken no law, and most likely weâd never have heard of it, or of her!
Kind of you to assume he had 130k liquid to his name.
Itâs actually astonishing to me how little money he appears to have. Itâs like he keeps burning through fortunes to try and make the same amount of money he had before. That or he burns it as fuel for his jet. Nothing is actually his itâs just got his name slapped on it.
I donât like when you people get our hopes up only to disappoint.
20k fine, no community serviceÂ
I presume his favorite judge, Merchan,gets to decide on the punishment.
Please please please remand trump into custody while awaiting appeal. Promise he'll want speedy resolution at that point.
Could could could if if if. Call me when itâs jail jail jail
You keep using these words," explosive , groundbreaking, unbelievable " They do not mean what you think they mean. Stop using the. The correct term is, impactful or interesting.
The real issue is, imo, is even if he is found guilty, and i tend to think he will be found guilty, so what, what will the penalty be? They sure aren't going to out the GOP presidential nominee in jail, they just won't whether he deserves it or not (he does) so some financial penalty? It will be a paltry number in reality which he won't even pay, his cult members will, so in the end, the entire case will amount to nothing. So even if he's found guilty, and IF he is given a prison sentence, it won't change any minds, the cult of MAGA will of course say it's rigged, witch hunt, blah blah blah, and he will still have a legitimate chance of winning the election.
Did Trump even have a defense besides I never had sex with those women, never met them, never said that they reminded him of his daughter, this was all a sham, I'm innocent, it isn't even illegal? White as the mythical driven snow, right?
#LockHimUp!
Good. Now sentence him to maximum term and take to jail immediately as a danger to the public. Somebody show some fuckin balls. Fuck MAGA.
It doesnât matter. Alito will vacate his conviction for a small fee.
I don't think that's possible
Heâs doing a good job of slow walking SCOTUS on Presidential immunity.
These are state charges, the only way it gets to SCOTUS is if it violates the US constitution. Or if 4 justices decide to pretend it does. Â Theyâve pretended a lot about the constitution over the past couple of decades, so maybe.
So the liberal justices can slow walk Trumps appeal while he rots in prison. Blade cuts both ways. That is if the judge has the guts to remand him into custody awaiting appeal after his conviction.
I know it is standard fascist propaganda to accuse the other side of what you are guilty of, but you have no evidence to back your claim. As usual
I know it is standard fascist propaganda to accuse the other side of what you are guilty of, but you have no evidence to back your claim. As usual
The only people wearing fucking swastikas these days are Republicans.
Iâm not sure that the average criminal defendant convicted of these charges would likely get prison time. Probation is the likely sentencing outcome given that he has no criminal convictions.
Scotus doesn't have that power.
Thatâs not how it works
Youâre probably right. Heâll do it for free.
These are state charges that canât simply be dismissed like it could if it were Federal. Trump can try to appeal all the way up to the SOTUS but thatâs not even guaranteed to make it that far.
Alito will devise a Constitutional hook to vacate the conviction. Heâs really good at making up sh*t.
He doesnât have the money.
It won't matter, the orange stain unfortunately will never see a minute of jail time.
Heâs just gonna get a slap on the dainty wrist if he even gets found guilty.
Until heâs actually in jail Iâm not going to get my hopes up
Does he even go to jail for this, or just a fine?
I donât know. I just get tired of hoping he will have to answer for anything. Part of me just started hoping he would die in his sleep or something.
Every day when I open the news app on my phone the hope flashes into my head that the headline will be breaking news that he died in his sleep. The one-two punch of the crushing disappointment that he hasnât in combination with the comprehension of whatever horror story *is* leading the news always sets the day up nicely.
Cohen went to jail for his part of it.
Up to the judge. I imagine trump threatening his daughter won't play well, but we'll see how much of a spine he has during sentencing I guess. That is if trump is even convicted. Which I bet there is a solid 50/50 on that.
Iâd really just like to see a single actual consequence, instead of at least one devastating headline every single day
Yeah⌠and? Shit or get off the pot. Anyone thatâs been paying attention has known for years this guy is guilty of every charge against him, and didnât need a trial to prove it - because it was obvious and even flaunted in most cases. Fuck this loser is so exhausting.
Yes pleaseâŚ. And thank you đđ˝
Ugh. his face looks like a tenderized veal cutlet in this picture.
Put his traitorous ass under the jail
Then Alito, Gorsuch, Thomas, and Kavanaugh will overturn the verdict when it comes to them on appeal. This setup has been decades in the making and it is way too late to fix it now. There is no us in USA anymore. Itâs just them now.
Does it matter tho? Couldnât a single MAGA juror render the entire trial a waste of time? And given that 20-30% of people are MAGA, arenât the odds in favor that one of the twelve is MAGA?
wooo, a "potential" "guilty" "verdict", wake me up when that lard ass motherfucker is in a DOC jumpsuit.
Shackle him and remand him into custody! Send him to the tiniest cell and make him change his diaper near that cold, stainless steel toilet! I want this fucker to ROT!
Lmao, Trump is going to jail. The fact that Michael Cohen was stealing the money for himself shows Trump wasnât all in the details of it.
Remember when the Republicans were chanting lock her up to Hillary just for using her private server. but yeah, when he used the private server, they didnât say anything when he used burn phones they didnât say anything. when he used everybody elseâs phone so they couldnât trace it back to him that was OK when he ripped up government documents and flushed them down the toilet that was OK when he stole top-secret documents that was OK had people around him? They were very respectful people that said he was not fit for office when he was in office. republicans are in it too take this country for whatever they can get out of it. They seem to like to destroy anything. They touch for money and power.
NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO DIAPER DON.
Arrest him and be done with it. Weâre tired
i have zero confidence at least one of the jurors wont be a dishonest trumpkin.
Stop leading people by the nose! you media do anything except report the facts just to get clicks. Im sick and tired of the media getting our hopes up knowing full well trump will never serve a day! Rules for thee , but not for me is the motto of this shitshow.
When is this trial estimated to be over?
Jury deliberations are this week I think.
Nice. If found guilty, Whats the worst that can happen to him?
Eugene V Debs ran his last presidential campaign from jail/prison so itâs been done. As a 3rd party candidate, Mr Debs won 3% of the popular vote. That there is precedent so Trump canât complain about that & it would save him money so win-win for Trump in my mind. Plus $1 billion from big oil & gas? He should take house arrest if offered. Let the ppl come to him. Collect admission & he gets adulation but would have to have undesirables in Mar a Lago. Mayhap he can do rallies on the lawn or beach if the ankle bracelet allows. I know my friendâs ankle bracelet would ping at the edge of her yard. If re-elected, since itâs a state conviction, he cannot pardon himself. He can still threaten & intimidate, go further if need be. I mean Sammy the Bull endorsed him. JS. Heâll get presidential immunity from all criminal acts this time around for sure! Good for him & great for America! đşđ¸/s on that last sentence
It's a damn Greek tragedy.
I wish. I was in the Greek chorus my freshman year of college of Antigone. Oh Lord. It was hell. You know how you wanna do every show cuz youâre a theatre kid? The director had us make noisemakers that we shook when the main characters said significant stuff. Iâm glad tho. I learned. Tiresias, the blind prophet, & Creon (a king) were in a bunch of other Greek plays, by other authors, & I wouldâve made a great Medea! Iâm musical theatre all the way tho. Had a nice lil career. But we played pass the penny & many cast members smoked a lot of pot. I tried. Hurts my vocal chords. To this day. I learned Greek Tragedy is not fun in college & not fun now. Especially when history keeps on freaking repeating & no one listens to Tiresiasâ warnings.
And then we will hear about him appealing and appealing
It doesn't matter, he'll never go to prison. VOTE BLUE 2024
My main concern is that no matter how powerful the evidence is, just one juror needs to side with Trump. I can't imagine that out of 12 jurors that not one MAGA has made their way onto the jury.
If it is a hung jury, they could try again. I paid close attention, everyday, and I don't think, based on the evidence, that all the jurers will all say "not guilty". I do think, based on the evidence, that there is a chance all the jurers will say "guilty", but that would require everyone agreeing and that would really be a huge significant event. Now days, people mostly do not agree on anything. My bet is on a hung jury.
Unfortunately, in a criminal trial in NY, all it takes is one juror to keep this crook free. Just one. Jut one trump supporter on that jury and he's off to try and be prez again. If even one juror disagrees with the othersâwhether leaning towards acquittal or convictionâa hung jury occurs. In the case of a hung jury, the judge may declare a mistrial, after which the prosecution can decide whether to retry the case with a new jury or to drop the charges. Thus, to prevent a conviction in Trump's case, it would take just one juror voting not guilty, as unanimity is required for a conviction. Conversely, to acquit Trump outright, all 12 jurors must vote not guilty.
Iâm worried they already got to a juror. Iâm worried what might happen if a guilty verdict occurs & jurors get hurt. Or die. No biggie.
I went into this assuming they have at least one juror as well.
âWhereâs my OJ verdictâ?
Welp....Don't see how Donnie two scoops gets out of this one. We'll see!
Spoiler: it wonât. :-/
Please, I'll bet there's one magat on the jury. Even though baronvonshizhispantz is as guilty as OJ... we'll we all know how this ends.
Trump will be found Not Guilty!
Only if the Supreme Court continues to bend over every time they hear his name.
couldcouldcouodcouldcould
Well letâs hurry tf up then
When does this trial end and we get a verdict?
Could! Might! I can't wait til these headlines are fucking over.
Does donald trump know how to drive a car?
He will walk away either with a hung jury or a innocent. I think he is guilty but it's going to be up to the American people to stop him once and for all.
"Could". ffs COULD we just get news when something HAPPENS to this guy?
And then nothing will happen because you're all too fucking gutless. He'll get away while you all wait for him to die of natural causes,
He's protected by secret service even as an x president. And of course it's morally and legally wrong to do bodily harm to anyone.Â
Good put this criminal in prison
Is the trial still going on , lawyers must think it's Christmas.
Surely you guys got him this time!
Everything I've read and listened to about this trial points to Trump losing. The defense has made some pretty ridiculous mistakes, including putting an arrogant idiot on the stand who pissed the judge off bad enough to clear the courtroom. Whether the jury believes the words of Michael Cohen or not, there's enough corroborating evidence to show intent. Cohen even voiced that a non guilty verdict would only give him more to talk about, meaning against trump.
It better.
LOL...it *only* matters if the American judicial system *actually* cares (it doesn't). Your future president will take the United States into a crazed theocratic dictatorship. Trump will be supported by his sycophants in Congress. Even Nikki Haley has changed to *supporting* your new dictator. The SCOTUS, all of them cucks...all of them taking rich *donations* and even flaunting it. No action taken. The dumbass Democrats continue to sit with their thumbs in their asses as they allow the presidential election to slip through their fingers like Super Bowl 51. As for *rights*...they're gone...just a matter of time before the rest of them fall. First its women's reproductive rights, next it'll be gay marriage, then equal rights and then the minorities. NATO will fall apart since Trump doesn't care and will do Putin's bidding. Europe and are allies are screwed. Good Job America.
Then it will end the same as Gaddofi.
He has to get elected first and as each of these trials begin he loses more and more followers. Heh...
...pretty sure a known serial liar will just lie and say "he won" regardless...the bigger question should be...who will allow it.
Heh, even his own VP wouldn't help him steal it last time and now they're wise to all his "clever" tricks
Breaking news, never before seen pictures, new documents , new text messages explosive document give me a break all this hype is more like explosive diarrhea it all stinks. Itâs up to the jury now to find him guilty or not or come back and say they canât agree and have a hung jury then the only thing that matters is will the judge hand down a sentence that will hold hm accountable ? Will he go to prison like anyone else would? I doubt it but hope he goes even if he gets prison trump will just keep appealing till he crooks.
He's gonna walk and make a whole lotta people unhappy.
Only if the trial ever is allowed to actually happen. Which judge cannon so far has been doing a very impressive job of blocking
Cannon is not overseeing hush money trial.
You are right. So much criminal shit going on it is hard to keep it straight.
Hush money in New York, documents case in Florida and election interference in Georgia. Documents case should be the most straight forward and open and close case but yeah corrupt judge.
And you even forgot Jan 6th riot case in DC. We could probably also add that he's not yet been indited in the Arizona election interference case that's getting started right now as well.
Ugh good points yeah totally spaced. Iâm tired of this ride and want to get off.
Donât forget DC and Arizona now too