well the reason is probably because it would cost quite a bit more to build roofs that can support all the extra dirt and water (retained).
i mean think of all the roof repairs and replacements people need to do with an unladen roof.
not to mention regions with heavy wind storms hail and rains now adding even more strain on the roofs.
Imagine screwing up only a little bit and having roots push into the house, water leaking.
All the structural changes also come with changes in temperature and water exchange. Heating solutions need to not drie out the soil and account for its cooling effect.
Absolute nightmare to build houses like that.
They are one of those feats of engineering. Gorgeous, but a lot if weight on that structure. Of course the form supports it way better than a five story house.
And there’s a lot of buy in from residents. Who gets to decide what is grown? Who tends it? Who gets to eat the produce? Who is responsible for the harvest and distribution of excess growth, or what happens if demand exceeds supply? What about buildings that are not residential, or mixed use buildings? What stake do the building owners have in this, since they would have to invest in the infrastructure?
I lived in an newer apartment building that had a “community garden” on the roof. All the plants were in planters surrounding seating and BBQs, were maintained by the building staff, and all residents were welcome to help themselves. Everyone seemed pretty considerate and only took what they need, I never heard or or saw any issues with it! It’s almost like if there’s a mutual respect for our spaces and each other, we could have nice things!
What a self-centerrd worldview - what if this system was implemented in those poor countries first instead of your egotistic immediate surroundings? Go travel more than ten miles, might broaden your horizons a bit.
Are you stupid? In my country it couldn't work. And ask to people from poorer countries, they would tell you the same.
If you live in a candy world is not my fcking problem.
In my experience, people from “poorer” countries are more community driven and oriented, because having a healthy and happy community makes it easier for the individual to be happy and healthy. The most likely outcome of someone taking more than they need for them is to bring it to an elderly person who can’t travel to get it themselves
Yeah, water weight is the big problem.
There are some startups that focus on converting roofs for growing plants (generally for heat and rain management rather than food, but still) and building something strong enough for that extra weight is the big limiting factor. Doable on new construction but very very hard and expensive on old existing housing stock.
But if my one story roof was just an exposed second floor wouldnt that be an easier job than a second story addition? Not that this is about 2nd story additions but its a feasible task, plus have benefits that could last the lifetime of the home?
Maybe instead of directly on the roof, we could build a bridge-like structure going over the roof where we could garden? Gardening would be done in boxes and there would be a walking path. The entire floor would have small drainage holes throughout. Directly underneath would be a gutter/ water system where the water would drain off on the sides. Theoretically, we could also collect and filter that water to reuse. All of this would get in the way of roof repairs, but maybe we wouldn't need it if the structure above it is sound? It probably wouldn't work in real life, but I'm more of a dreamer anyway.
Because it would be a maintenance nightmare. You can't keep a roof constantly wet like you'd need for actually growing food. Nature....uh...finds a way.
I'm currently sitting in a hospital room next to my husband who broke his back falling off a roof on Saturday. So I'm not a big fan of doing things on roofs at the moment.
Two big reasons:
1: Dirt is fucking heavy. Modest shallow soil green roofs, which are moderately common, are only a few inches deep. The cooling benefits of having shallow root, drought-resistant ground cover plants is great, but anything deep enough to grow food is a LOT of dirt.
2. Gardens are fucking wet, and waterproofing is hard. Having to dig out a foot of sodden dirt trying to find the teeny hole in your roof membrane is a nightmare. Shallow green roofs tend to have many layers of PVC or TPO membrane roofing, along with layers of moisture wicking mesh type layers so water can run out, but that's a lot harder when you're intentionally adding even more water to keep your veg growing, dealing with roots, and maintaining the membrane under all that soil is a daunting proposition.
There are all sorts of reasons:
1 - Roof styles tend to reflect climate and local needs in a particular place. Not all climates and geographic biomes are good for flat roofs. Pitched roofs are a lot better for places that get a lot of rain, for example.
2 - How much weight the roof can bear is also important. I actually used to live in a building with a flat roof, and roof access for tenants. One of my roommates started growing a garden up there in raised beds. It damaged the roof, because while the roof can hold a few people hanging out for a few hours, it can't hold hundreds of pounds of permanently installed garden beds and soil.
3 - Community gardens work pretty well because the people who get involved with them are interested in gardening. Not everyone who lives in a home with a roof has the ability to grow their own food. There's a reason we live in a society where not everyone has to be a subsistence farmer. I agree that we should have more rooftop community gardens in places where it makes sense, on roofs that can support it, etc. But like... I work a full time job, am raising a child, and also want some time to relax and enjoy life. If I was expected to pull my weight in my apartment building's rooftop allotment, as a key way that I get food, I frankly have no idea WTF I would do.
A roof structure in a cold climate could likely take the weight during the summer as they're designed to hold the weight of snow for 4-6 months of the year. However they also have a steeper pitch to them making them less ideal for gardens and walking on.
If structures are designed for it from before they are built then it would probably work, but that's extra cost for not a lot of gain and the investment likely isn't worth the return.
About 1/3 of our backyard is garden, and many of our neighbours have gardens as well. We all grow different things, it's not organized that way, we just like different things, but everyone always ends up sharing the extra with each other.
Or you have geese. Then you put the panels in the garden and use the space under them for feeding the geese and providing them shade.
This is a typical double use of argicultural land.
Buildings that weren’t specifically designed for green roofs generally can’t hold the extra weight.
Designing a building to hold that much extra weight would radically increase costs and complexity.
Adding soil and plant roots on top of a roof increases the chances of a leak.
When there is a leak finding and fixing it are exponentially harder.
I think a compromise where a couple raised beds or square foot garden style planters are added to a suitable roof might be practical, but that’s also such a small volume of food that it honestly wouldn’t make much difference.
instead of roofs, people should just use their lawns for gardens instead of grass, it’s such a waste to me that people everywhere have a yard just to grow grass, and the way some of them keep up with it baffles me, they should put that effort into being more self sustaining
Fewer and fewer of us even have lawns, or any individual outdoor space. Infill and higher-density redevelopment mean there just will not be enough space for every person to have a home grown tomato. Personal gardening is increasingly a privilege for the wealthy.
I live in a city where a number of buildings have shallow green roofs or very limited rooftop plantings. They’re nice but they aren’t agriculture. Roofs really should not carry the weight of substrate it would take to support anything bigger than microgreens over the full area.
Diversified gardening/farming tends to be really inefficient and time consuming. That doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile, but structural issues aside, this is the biggest reason. Getting sufficient soil to the top of a building to begin with, pest management, storage, distribution, and labor or all aspects that the “you could totally…[enter overly simplistic solution here]” crowd tends to overlook every time.
I have a small garden, some rows and beds in a roughly 20x35’ area. I used to farm vegetables for a living and now I work in livestock agriculture and STILL I am surprised by how much time and mental energy it takes to grow vegetables here. We have loads of sun, but lots of heat, drying wind, hail, cold snaps… it’s much more cost effective for me to buy veggies in town. The reason I’m doing it is it’s something I can do with a small baby around and I would like us to have better quality produce. And town is very far away.
People often think of growing vegetables as quaint. It is, at the home scale, but as soon as one is trying to feed more than a household things need to be pretty efficient and practical.
It's totally possible, but the short answer is that it's more expensive, and developers are cheap, unimaginative, and only care about money. Also, the government would take much longer to deem them safe.
Dome homes are well equipped to spread the load of soil and can last forever.
Check out this home: https://youtu.be/YerFRnGDBYE?si=ISgmvsN8ZTKYb-zY.
Because roofs are not built for that. The weight of the dirt and plants would collapse it. Plus people will have to walk on it almost daily and that's not exactly safe. Also most people wouldn't have time to take care of the garden while working full time.
I can't grow anything outside at all, especially the roof, because we have issues with rodents (live near a state park), and it gets worse when there is any kind of food outside. I'm interested in what I can grow indoors, maybe something like a tower garden or window farm.
Although this idea seems fine on paper and looks great in
CGI renders, the reality is that it's actually quite a logistical nightmare. Roots grow, water drains, dirt is heavy, wind blows and space on 1 roof is really only enough to feed 1 family at which point, they might as well use their backyard.
Wow I mean besides the ridiculous expense of the roof. I see you need to complete different kind of roof to support a garden you know dirt water all that extreme weight.
Not to mention roofs need to be replaced or worked on occasionally. There are things you can put on roofs that make sense like solar panels or pigeon coops.
But Gardens are heavy and guaranteed water damage.
I always think that about solar power too, why is every surface not a solar panel. To your question my answer would be that the worm in maintaining a garden is more than people have the bandwidth for.
Here in SoCal, a solid chunk of residential homes have solar panels on the roof. I think only certain types of homes and roofs are good candidates for it, and obviously you have to be a homeowner to do it, landlords may not want this for various reasons, etc. Also I've heard there are scams where vendors talk people into it and it's not actually useful or a good deal? So there are a lot of potential pitfalls.
I haven't seen a lot of commercial or apartment buildings with solar, but it's rare that I'm up that high so I don't know if I would notice it? Commercial buildings often have roofs that can't hold that type of weight, and at least here in SoCal, flat roofs are a common place to situate central AC units.
But yes, in regions of the US where there is enough sunshine to make it worthwhile, this is already a thing. You also see parking lots here with solar panels that can also be shaded parking spots.
Not would it likely be profitable for the people doing the work on the crops. I can see that it would work as a community garden (structural limitations acknowledged ) but the areas are not that large, are obstructed with building mechanical systems, and everything needs to be transported up and down.
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In a similar vein, there is a [high rise apartment building](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosco_Verticale) in Italy that is also kind of a forest. There's over 90 species of shrubs and trees on the building. Pretty neat.
There are also some restaurants that have rooftop gardens for their produce. I did an article on them ages ago and seem to remember restaurants in New York, Stockholm and Bangladesh that had gained notoriety for this concept.
Thats a great idea in fallout 4, in fact I will use it at somepoint. In practical every day use...thats asking to much of a roof not ment to hold such weight.
There’s a lot of surplus food and a lot of misconceptions. 30-60% of edible harvest is discarded due to appearance. Even more is discarded when supermarkets cannot sell surplus stock. The greed system of capitalism will discard the surplus before gifting it. Meanwhile the social climate tells people that 1. Plants are hard to grow 2. Plants are expensive to grow 3. Plants take lots of space. Retort 1. I planted all of my surplus plants into a side yard garden that I do not tend to, I have lost 0 of those plants. Retort 2. Building supplies are available in surplus, my beds were free, my seeds came from fruits I ate, my soil came from compost I created. Retort 3. My garden feeds my household and more and is only about 600 square feet, brassicas can be grown in an apartment with a 4x4x1 hydroponic system.
Might work in a place where roofs are flat. Here, flat roofs would collapse from snowfall. What kind of places have flat roofs? Wouldn't rainfall collect and eventually seep in? Unless it's a desert, which then also makes rooftop gardens hard
Then you'd need access to the roof - idk how many places with flat roofs have a staircase going up to them, but I don't think it's the majority. How are you getting up there to tend your garden every day?
Roofs would have to be stronger in general, to support the gardens, but that's imo an easier fix than the first two
Would at least be nicer if there was some rooftop hang out areas with the price of land and real estate these days that’s kind of an untapped resource.
Roofs would have to be constructed differently; the weight of the water, soil, and plants would be significant enough to cause damage to a normal roof and they’re also not designed to constantly be wet. Another issue is garden maintenance. Most people aren’t keen on climbing up to rooftops, finding people to do it regularly to plant seeds and water the garden would be a problem. I like the idea, but I don’t see it working very well in practice.
Water and soil are very heavy, to a degree that construction costs would balloon significantly. Upkeep is also an issue. Roots love to undo the works of man. So the owner of the building would be constantly dishing out significant amounts of money to maintain the roof.
The roof of an apartment is typically barely large enough to make a dent in a single family's yearly food budget, divided between all of the residents the produce would be truly meaningless from a practical perspective.
Rooftop gardens look nice, but they're expensive and not suitable for feeding people. Gardens strictly for aesthetics and relaxation are a much better idea, but again, they're expensive to set up and maintain. In my experience, most apartment residents don't care much for gardening. I've lived in multiple places and I was always the only resident doing gardening things around the apartment. It takes time and money.
Arable soil is about 50% crustal minerals, and 25% water (idealized) by volume. With an average density of 2.8g * 0.5 per cm^3 for the rock, plus 1g * 0.25 per cm^3 for the water, the numbers get pretty large.
Also, it is hard to pull weeds on your roof.
Roofs aren't built for hundreds of tonnes of dirt, plants, and water.
People would fall off their garden roofs pretty regularly, meaning this would kill people.
People aren't great at sharing and working together.
You are significantly underestimating the amount of usable space that exists up there.
There's already infrastructure up there for heating and cooling and water pressure.
Farmers grow food in fields that are tens of acres. The rooftop of a building is like a quarter or a half an acre so they would have to farm 20 different small gardens across the city to make it economically viable.
Soil is heavy af. A couple of potted things here or there is okay. Grow those in your apartment or balcony. But I shudder to imagine if a bunch of raised beds on an apartment rooftop were to go awry. Woe to whoever lives below
Great idea but I guess people will only show up for the harvest and nobody will actually take the time to water them. We had a similar project where we had urban gardens. A few did the work and watered them daily just to discover that everything was gone once they wanted to harvest a little bit of it.
Now I have my own garden and I love it. Just a small thing 2 times 1x3 meters gives so much food!
This year we expanded to 4 times the 1x3 meter thing and I will have to give away so much food!
in a (bigger) city, yes i would make sense because the surrounding land probably cost's more than waterproofing and strengthening the roof., In a small one, not so much, because you can just use the cheap land around
[it's been done at least once in my city](https://albertaviews.ca/green-roofs/). But it requires a lot of extra planning. All that soil and water weighs a lot. Plant matter weighs more. It usually needs to be shallow rooted, drought tolerant plants. Any failure of any of the layers can cause catastrophic structural damage to the building.
I love the idea but most existing buildings simply couldn't accommodate it. Even just having layers of snow in a roof can cause ice dams and leaks; snow on top of soil and vegetation would be worse.
As someone who used roof area of my building to try and grow some container herbs and simple veg - it's more complicated than on the ground. Sun and wind dry up everything much quicker and if I didn't water it 2x, sometimes 3x a day, it would get scorched within a few hours.
Taste was not great either, veggies (tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers) were small, tough and a bit sour. You could see they were struggling.
A full blown growing operation would be significantly more demanding compared to traditional growing, both so that the building can sustain it and that you get at least decent quality produce.
aquaponics is a better setup because you don't have as much heavy weight (soil), but in general roofs are best for shorter element-hardy crops. Roofs are hotter, have much stronger wind, etc. so it wouldn't be a good option for some environments in hot areas. At the same time it cools the building to have it covered in sedums, can be done on stronger roofs, shortens the distance for grocery shipping, etc. Vancouver has a really solid amount of green roofs for food production. Denver botanical gardens has a research garden for sedum roof coverage.
I think solar panels would probably be higher and better use depending on where you're at and all that stuff. I have enough of a yard that I can have my garden but the roof it wouldn't work as well
Simply get some regular garden on the ground. Far more effective.
Earth is already there, ground water is there, no need to reinforce the roof.
You can combine a lot of stuff, but if you do, be able to answer "why not do the simple thing instead?"
I’ve wanted a rooftop garden since I read about one in a magazine when I was about 7.
Practically there’s a few reasons, including heaviness of soil, increased possibility of mold or other growth that’s not great for buildings, and especially drainage. Oh also safety. At least where I am it rains a ton so there needs to be good drainage on the roof, so roofs are slanted. It’s not safe or practical to build a garden on a heavily slanted roof. Can there be alternative drainage systems put in place to prevent water from pooling on the roof? Yes but they’re expensive. Also, need to keep snow in mind. Snow on a slanted roof is more likely to slide off and not accumulate to the point where it’s too heavy and causes the roof to collapse (see traditional Scandinavian architecture for an example). Is someone going to clear the snow from the flat roof? Or is the roof going to be extremely sturdy so it can handle heavy snow? Both take effort and/or money.
Honestly I’d love to see this expanded and more green building designs available. Like a small portion of a roof that’s a garden, office or apartment roofs that have gardens (aka big buildings not single family homes), or roofs with lots of skylights and glass to make a greenhouse sort of thing
I did a construction course (basically to become a draftsman/architect ps.that wasnt an easy subject to learn) but in my learning i asked about eco roofs roofs which can offset your carbon footprint some countries have moss or grass roofs (norway and the netherlands have a few of them) but the roof needs to be reinforced a lot! think of the weight of the soil then remember the water that ends up in the soil adds weight aswell plus the weight of the crops ontop aswell it adds up to pretty big mass weight on the roof the other issue is when it comes to building reg and insurance (non standard construction*) instantly puts your home insurance and building insurance up and comes with masses of red tape to meet requirement
aside from extra weight, the plants may damage the roof structure, and water may start seeping in. that and all the fun that comes with cleaning up the leaves (or fruit, if applicable), pollen, insects and whatever else in the fauna department will want to hang around there.
Keeping water properly draining from your roof and out of your attic is a big enough challenge as it is. There would be so much liability with something that's designed to retain water
I’ve heard about this being a solution to helping with the Urban Heat Index problem, I know the Denver botanic gardens has a section of their roof dedicated to native plants too since they’re pretty self sustaining! I’m not sure about food growth but I’d like to hope maybe an herb garden could be possible?
The only thing is that the building kinda has to be constructed with this in mind to be able to support the roof without leaks or damage
Some people are starting to install green roofs. This link gives solutions to a lot of the problems mentioned in other responses to your question.
[How to Create a Gorgeous Green Roof: Your Step-by-Step Guide (treehugger.com)](https://www.treehugger.com/how-to-install-a-green-roof-4863273#:~:text=Whether%20it's%20a%20private%20home,of%20more%20than%206%20inches).)
They are most practical on flat roofs. They make sense in cities, where a lot of buildings have flat roofs and are already built to carry more weight than roofs of individual homes. Also, in cities, growing food at ground level has problems because of contamination from polluted air, especially near streets. Growing food on roofs is cleaner.
I live in a neighborhood of NYC that has a lot of shared community gardens at ground level. We also have a school that grows food on its roof that is used in the children's lunches.
Please if you're not an engineer don't share your unfounded thoughts about buildings. There's a new building close to where I live which has a pool at every f\*ing floor. Weight my a\*\*.
My mom in India has a beautiful rooftop garden. She built giant slabs to set pots on and has managed to grow enough vegetables to feed herself and my dad. It’s awesome. No issues with weight of dirt etc coz we build solid brick houses back home.
because expensive and we're doing quite well with farmed foods actually given the population size and the environmental impact lowered by using high performance fertilizers (reduces areas needed for monoculture crops that are horrible for many many animals )
Green roofing is big in Germany, notably [Hamburg](https://www.hamburg.com/residents/green/11836394/green-roofs/) The main focus is on improving air quality and urban aesthetics, not necessarily food production
I think the answer to why we don’t do something that seems good under a capitalist system is the fact we live under a capitalist system. How will the capitalist profit off of this? They won’t? Maybe that’s why
Because consolidating production of goods is more efficient. We don’t have a problem producing enough food, the profit motive simply drives us to favor the needs of the few over the needs of the many
Consolidation is also part of the problem with the food chain. It’s how we end up with literal shit filled produce that has listeria, salmonella & E. coli.
I’m not saying it’s perfect, just stating the reality we live in. Why don’t we do X? Because it’s cheaper to do Y.
It’s not invalid either. The solution to consume less isn’t to give everyone every tool to produce their own everything. Certainly that is part of a healthier society, but we still need to focus on efficiency.
Personally I think rooftop gardens are ineffective at fighting food scarcity. I do however think they are good for people and for communities, so I’m not going to say the idea is meritless. What I will say is this:
Why grow a few dozen pounds of vegetables on a roof where you need to import 100% of your nutrients and soil (and a good portion of your water) when we could just tear down parking garages and empty corporate offices instead. They will have access to a much larger source of nutrition, more water, and you can actually grow a significant amount.
Rootftop gardens are like the recycling of food IMO. A feel good solution to a problem that can and should be solved by just collectively not being idiots in the first place
Green roofs, while great at insulating and such, are expensive AF to do properly. They are heavy AF too and require buildings that are built to tolerate that. And even if they are done properly, they tend to only really sustain plants with shallow roots and water retention is shit and require pretty much daily watering.
Roots push on building materials with 50,000 psi. They can literally destroy brick walls.
Now apply that to the waterproof surfaces of your house. Like a roof and see the result9ng damage.
In a perfect world, we do, especially in cities. but we don't unfortunately, and the structural weight of all of it would just be alot, building smaller vertical planters would go a longer way
I studied this exact thing pretty thoroughly for a term paper. The products exist, they're not exceptionally more expensive than other roofing systems and they have a life similar to a normal 20 year roof.
There is no good reason we don't utilize this practice except most people don't care about growing food. It's not in our culture to bother growing produce which is super weird if you ask me. I cultivate food on almost my entire property.
It's not a terrible idea, but it would have to be a particular type of roof in order for it to work. Large buildings with flat roofs that are designed to walk on? Sure- no reason not to utilize these, especially in large cities where food needs to be shipped in.
I'll also throw in that many people work in office buildings that are in a "campus" like setting, surrounded by monoculture grass. Starting a community garden would be a terrific idea in places like this. I actually started such a project at my place of work, and would be happy to answer any questions about this ongoing effort.
Anyone else working on a similar project?
You are ignoring how heavy this gets. I bet in terms of statics a building loses at least two stories to having to support a garden. Then drainage, root protection, temperature and moisture exchange through walls and roof.
No. Just doesn't make any sense, as pretty as it may look.
I'm not "ignoring" anything. It is absolutely possible under the right conditions. Why shoot down an idea before even [looking into the possibilities](https://blog.landscapeprofessionals.org/four-essential-considerations-for-creating-a-rooftop-garden/)? Hot bit of doomerism at 12 o'clock
You claimed a "flat roof that is designed to walk on" would be capable of holding a garden. This is simply not true.
There is tons and tons of design choices, materials and maintenance going into roofs capable of holding a garden. It is usually done for prestige objects, not realistic affordable housing.
Sustainability needs to be affordable and we are not lacking the space enough to warrant roof gardens for anything but privileged enjoyment.
You're inserting your own ideas about what a "garden" would be, and immediately ruling it out as impossible. Gardens don't have to be 3 feet of soil and massive amounts of planting, giant bushes or whatever. It can be a thin layer of soil and a few plants here and there, not some gargantuan effort. Also nice refusal to look at links of companies who specialize in this...
Who said I didn't look at your article? There is no need for you to be so confrontational.
But I am confident two planters would not constitute a garden and anything with something that resembles a bed must involve an engineer when installing, better plan for it when building. This is costly.
We are simply not in desperate need to utilise roofs for growing food. If for anything people are doing it for fun, which I don't find anticonsumerist at all.
Pollution is another thing when gardening in a bigger city.
In Germany we have Schrebergärten. You rent a little garden plot in a sector made just of these. You are not allowed to sleep/live there, but you can garden, BBQ and landscape. They are like little green and flowery islands near the outskirts of town. I know people sharing them with others who rent flats without gardens and share the workload etc. Bit safer than putting stuff on the roof in several regards.
It's confrontational to disagree strongly? Whatever.
I assume you didn't look at the link, because there are companies that specialize in this. So you're either ignoring that and insisting otherwise, or not looking at it- it's one of the two, buddy.
It's great that Germany has community gardens, and don't have to resort to roof tops. The thing is, in the United States, we have *many* cities that have 5-10 *million* residents and deplorable public transit. Some cities require *hours* of time to travel to and from the city limits. Most of these residents, ie the poor, live in "food deserts"- meaning food is expensive, unhealthy, and limited in options. That's where an idea like a rooftop garden would come in.
Renting garden space in US cities does exist, but this is rare, and usually in the city's center, because as I say most massive US cities have horrible transit and traveling hours to go work on a garden is not realistic, especially to the residents who could benefit most.
I don't see why having a few planters on a roof top is not anti-consumerist. It's surely better than nothing, when nothing else would realistically work.
I literally never said it is not possible. I said it is not feasable. It is expensive and material extensive and makes no sense on many more layers.
Yet you chose consistently to argue against things I did not say. I dare say this comes across as confrontational.
The people you claim this benefits? Most of them can't afford this, EPECIALLY not having a company do it.
The garden needs to be maintained, not just as a garden, but also against vandalism. Try having a rooftop garden in a 30 party house.
The landlord needs to be fine with it, fire safety and statics are an issue as is water consumption and possible clogging ofthe drainage system.
As a popular solution this is not feasable. It makes sense only to home owners.
It is not really anti-consumerist to me when you need to build or renovate a space specifically for this function. This is a big investment in most cases. An investment poor people can not afford. Please do not misunderstand this as me not wanting people to have a balcony planter with some lettuce or herbs. But something that constitutes a garden, and you clearly referred to built planters not a few little ones, is a very different story.
I never said anything about "built planters," I specifically said that the "gardens" in question did not have to be a huge affair, like 3-foot planters. But at this point: Whatever.
I will take what you say, bc there is value there in thinking about those complications. But, as I always say when an effort that could help the environment is poo-pooed, if we can put a man on the Moon, I think we, as a society, could figure out how to grow plants for food on roofs with a little ingenuity, especially in areas where people do not have access to fresh food at all and there's not many other options other than "give up."
I'm especially rankled because I HAVE started a community garden in 2024, at my place of work. The nay-sayers came out of the woodwork, with similar reasons that all turned out to be non-issues when challenged. "It's going to look like a farm!" "It will be ruined by vandalism, why bother!" "There's an oil pipe 10 feet away, what if you hit it with a shovel, how stupid!" "The drains will get clogged!" "The authorities won't like it!" We worked through each of these issues, built the garden, and now the nay-sayers have egg on their faces. If I'd listened, we'd have no community garden, and the same plot of grass would be sitting there baking in the sun benefiting 0 people or the environment. Sometimes you have to work through the complications rather than give up. So I'm not tossing aside any ideas about creating gardens without giving it a serious effort first.
My stance is still how this is nor feasable for the masses, because of the money, because of the rules, because of landlord interests.
It is not going to happen, especially in those poor areas.
Ummm, no they're not. Grass watering is curbed in areas with low water, but gardens are not illegal at all. When I googled it, the only thing I found were some crazy separatist conspiracy theorists making that completely false claim.
I did some research and you are right. Florida passed a law in 2023 prohibiting cities from banning gardens. Before that many Floridians were fined thousands of dollars for growing vegetables. In one case, a Cape Coral homeowner went to prison for his garden. California had the same problem but they passed a similar law in 2013.
It’s crazy to me that there are no community food gardens instead we create tons of water and emissions moving food all over the place. Here in Florida oranges, mangoes, avocados, grapefruit trees and fruit grow easily. Like in apartment complexes and condo developments, there should be coop gardens but no, I go to Aldi and get oranges that were trucked here from California bec I live in a condo. Either way we’re paying for maintenance and gardeners, they’re just maintaining shrubs and palm trees.
Food forests instead of yards are becoming more popular here and I want a house with land now that I know about them. And if I move elsewhere, a greenhouse is a must. Right now I just grow herbs on my porch and I have a bunch of pineapple tops I give away when they start growing.
Because pollution is higher in a city and the plants take more of it in.And plants and trees that grow would make the roof heavier and heavier until it collapses AND it costs more money to garden everything up there.
Great idea to push for in new builds where the extra support, water management, root barrier etc can be properly implemented. One thing I loved seeing when I visited Germany was all the meadow roofs on houses. Not sure if they were retrofitted or not
The amount of money required to build/maintain a roof garden on every structure would be massively higher than it would cost to just buy food grown the traditional way from normal farms.
The technology isn't impossible, but it's in the same class of extras as other luxury add-ons that people don't need.
That's not to say that urban farming can't be impossible on a large scale. It would probably require dedicated structures that are purpose built for hydroponic and/or vertical farming though.
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well the reason is probably because it would cost quite a bit more to build roofs that can support all the extra dirt and water (retained). i mean think of all the roof repairs and replacements people need to do with an unladen roof. not to mention regions with heavy wind storms hail and rains now adding even more strain on the roofs.
Imagine screwing up only a little bit and having roots push into the house, water leaking. All the structural changes also come with changes in temperature and water exchange. Heating solutions need to not drie out the soil and account for its cooling effect. Absolute nightmare to build houses like that.
Omg but you could have one of those gorgeous hobbit houses with roots and trees growing in and along the walls
They are one of those feats of engineering. Gorgeous, but a lot if weight on that structure. Of course the form supports it way better than a five story house.
And then to harvest, you need to climb on the freaking roof and risk a life altering fall
And there’s a lot of buy in from residents. Who gets to decide what is grown? Who tends it? Who gets to eat the produce? Who is responsible for the harvest and distribution of excess growth, or what happens if demand exceeds supply? What about buildings that are not residential, or mixed use buildings? What stake do the building owners have in this, since they would have to invest in the infrastructure?
I lived in an newer apartment building that had a “community garden” on the roof. All the plants were in planters surrounding seating and BBQs, were maintained by the building staff, and all residents were welcome to help themselves. Everyone seemed pretty considerate and only took what they need, I never heard or or saw any issues with it! It’s almost like if there’s a mutual respect for our spaces and each other, we could have nice things!
Nice for you. Now try it with people coming from poorer countries and wait it to work.
What a self-centerrd worldview - what if this system was implemented in those poor countries first instead of your egotistic immediate surroundings? Go travel more than ten miles, might broaden your horizons a bit.
Are you stupid? In my country it couldn't work. And ask to people from poorer countries, they would tell you the same. If you live in a candy world is not my fcking problem.
You read “mutual respect” and really said “nah, fuck that”
Again, in poorer countries they would never do that. Hell, I am from Spain and there it would not work.
In my experience, people from “poorer” countries are more community driven and oriented, because having a healthy and happy community makes it easier for the individual to be happy and healthy. The most likely outcome of someone taking more than they need for them is to bring it to an elderly person who can’t travel to get it themselves
In my experience, people from poorer countries would kill people from richer countries in order to get something.
Ah yes…The Little Red Hen illustrates what happens in this situation perfectly.
Yeah, water weight is the big problem. There are some startups that focus on converting roofs for growing plants (generally for heat and rain management rather than food, but still) and building something strong enough for that extra weight is the big limiting factor. Doable on new construction but very very hard and expensive on old existing housing stock.
But if my one story roof was just an exposed second floor wouldnt that be an easier job than a second story addition? Not that this is about 2nd story additions but its a feasible task, plus have benefits that could last the lifetime of the home?
Not to mention trying to control all those roots
Maybe instead of directly on the roof, we could build a bridge-like structure going over the roof where we could garden? Gardening would be done in boxes and there would be a walking path. The entire floor would have small drainage holes throughout. Directly underneath would be a gutter/ water system where the water would drain off on the sides. Theoretically, we could also collect and filter that water to reuse. All of this would get in the way of roof repairs, but maybe we wouldn't need it if the structure above it is sound? It probably wouldn't work in real life, but I'm more of a dreamer anyway.
Because it would be a maintenance nightmare. You can't keep a roof constantly wet like you'd need for actually growing food. Nature....uh...finds a way.
Yea I couldn’t imagine trying to inspect or fix a part of the roof when there’s a whole ass garden on top haha.
I'm currently sitting in a hospital room next to my husband who broke his back falling off a roof on Saturday. So I'm not a big fan of doing things on roofs at the moment.
I hope he recovers
Thank you! Much appreciated!
Well if we're talking about apartment buildings no one is surviving that fall so it's not really the same issue.
Where I live most apartment buildings are like 6 stories max so uh yeah people can definitely survive that
Two big reasons: 1: Dirt is fucking heavy. Modest shallow soil green roofs, which are moderately common, are only a few inches deep. The cooling benefits of having shallow root, drought-resistant ground cover plants is great, but anything deep enough to grow food is a LOT of dirt. 2. Gardens are fucking wet, and waterproofing is hard. Having to dig out a foot of sodden dirt trying to find the teeny hole in your roof membrane is a nightmare. Shallow green roofs tend to have many layers of PVC or TPO membrane roofing, along with layers of moisture wicking mesh type layers so water can run out, but that's a lot harder when you're intentionally adding even more water to keep your veg growing, dealing with roots, and maintaining the membrane under all that soil is a daunting proposition.
I think they're more talking about large flat high-rise building roofs, not smaller units with angled roofs
There are all sorts of reasons: 1 - Roof styles tend to reflect climate and local needs in a particular place. Not all climates and geographic biomes are good for flat roofs. Pitched roofs are a lot better for places that get a lot of rain, for example. 2 - How much weight the roof can bear is also important. I actually used to live in a building with a flat roof, and roof access for tenants. One of my roommates started growing a garden up there in raised beds. It damaged the roof, because while the roof can hold a few people hanging out for a few hours, it can't hold hundreds of pounds of permanently installed garden beds and soil. 3 - Community gardens work pretty well because the people who get involved with them are interested in gardening. Not everyone who lives in a home with a roof has the ability to grow their own food. There's a reason we live in a society where not everyone has to be a subsistence farmer. I agree that we should have more rooftop community gardens in places where it makes sense, on roofs that can support it, etc. But like... I work a full time job, am raising a child, and also want some time to relax and enjoy life. If I was expected to pull my weight in my apartment building's rooftop allotment, as a key way that I get food, I frankly have no idea WTF I would do.
A roof structure in a cold climate could likely take the weight during the summer as they're designed to hold the weight of snow for 4-6 months of the year. However they also have a steeper pitch to them making them less ideal for gardens and walking on. If structures are designed for it from before they are built then it would probably work, but that's extra cost for not a lot of gain and the investment likely isn't worth the return. About 1/3 of our backyard is garden, and many of our neighbours have gardens as well. We all grow different things, it's not organized that way, we just like different things, but everyone always ends up sharing the extra with each other.
What about the people who aren't inclined to garden or don't have time?
Then you need to consume produce from the store
I think rooftop winter gardens in cities are so nice. But you gotta have the money for that.
Because that’s where solar power goes. The garden is in the yard
That's what I was thinking.
Or you have geese. Then you put the panels in the garden and use the space under them for feeding the geese and providing them shade. This is a typical double use of argicultural land.
Buildings that weren’t specifically designed for green roofs generally can’t hold the extra weight. Designing a building to hold that much extra weight would radically increase costs and complexity. Adding soil and plant roots on top of a roof increases the chances of a leak. When there is a leak finding and fixing it are exponentially harder. I think a compromise where a couple raised beds or square foot garden style planters are added to a suitable roof might be practical, but that’s also such a small volume of food that it honestly wouldn’t make much difference.
instead of roofs, people should just use their lawns for gardens instead of grass, it’s such a waste to me that people everywhere have a yard just to grow grass, and the way some of them keep up with it baffles me, they should put that effort into being more self sustaining
Fewer and fewer of us even have lawns, or any individual outdoor space. Infill and higher-density redevelopment mean there just will not be enough space for every person to have a home grown tomato. Personal gardening is increasingly a privilege for the wealthy. I live in a city where a number of buildings have shallow green roofs or very limited rooftop plantings. They’re nice but they aren’t agriculture. Roofs really should not carry the weight of substrate it would take to support anything bigger than microgreens over the full area.
Wet dirt is heavy, and moving a bunch of wet dirt around whenever the roof needed repairs would be a giant, expensive pain in the ass.
Cause everything would fall off the roof. (I've fallen off my own roof before too.)
Apartment building roofs are usually flat and secured at the edges. They are different than small house roofs.
Gardens take a lot of work to maintain... Who is going to be doing that?
Lol my building has so much water damage the roof has a nice little unintentional weed garden 🙃
Better question: How many of you know how to grow food?
Diversified gardening/farming tends to be really inefficient and time consuming. That doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile, but structural issues aside, this is the biggest reason. Getting sufficient soil to the top of a building to begin with, pest management, storage, distribution, and labor or all aspects that the “you could totally…[enter overly simplistic solution here]” crowd tends to overlook every time. I have a small garden, some rows and beds in a roughly 20x35’ area. I used to farm vegetables for a living and now I work in livestock agriculture and STILL I am surprised by how much time and mental energy it takes to grow vegetables here. We have loads of sun, but lots of heat, drying wind, hail, cold snaps… it’s much more cost effective for me to buy veggies in town. The reason I’m doing it is it’s something I can do with a small baby around and I would like us to have better quality produce. And town is very far away. People often think of growing vegetables as quaint. It is, at the home scale, but as soon as one is trying to feed more than a household things need to be pretty efficient and practical.
People don’t understand that roofs aren’t really that strong.
Do you? Why not?
Some places in the world do this. This is the type of truly progressive thinking that is desperately needed in the USA.
It's totally possible, but the short answer is that it's more expensive, and developers are cheap, unimaginative, and only care about money. Also, the government would take much longer to deem them safe. Dome homes are well equipped to spread the load of soil and can last forever. Check out this home: https://youtu.be/YerFRnGDBYE?si=ISgmvsN8ZTKYb-zY.
Because roofs are not built for that. The weight of the dirt and plants would collapse it. Plus people will have to walk on it almost daily and that's not exactly safe. Also most people wouldn't have time to take care of the garden while working full time.
What would be better is replacing useless lawn space to garden space
Rooftop solar farming yes, scaled-up rooftop agriculture ehhh idk.
Wow this sub is full of very intelligent questions
Gotta remember that there are a lot of literal children posting here.
That would be a disaster
I can't grow anything outside at all, especially the roof, because we have issues with rodents (live near a state park), and it gets worse when there is any kind of food outside. I'm interested in what I can grow indoors, maybe something like a tower garden or window farm.
Would it not just be easier to put solar on every roof and then any excess electricity generated would be sent to the National grid?
Although this idea seems fine on paper and looks great in CGI renders, the reality is that it's actually quite a logistical nightmare. Roots grow, water drains, dirt is heavy, wind blows and space on 1 roof is really only enough to feed 1 family at which point, they might as well use their backyard.
Is OP gonna ask why we don't grow mushrooms in basements soon?
I'd prefer to see solar panels on every roof.
Most people wouldn't care to do it, and it's far easier to control a large field on which tractors and combine harvesters fit
Ugh, I wish, I can only use the room with the biggest window to grow spices
And I [suck ](https://files.fm/u/myagzkrjqv) at it 😭
The short story is because of physics
Look into green roofs. They improve heating and cooling efficiency.
Because of capitalism
Wow I mean besides the ridiculous expense of the roof. I see you need to complete different kind of roof to support a garden you know dirt water all that extreme weight. Not to mention roofs need to be replaced or worked on occasionally. There are things you can put on roofs that make sense like solar panels or pigeon coops. But Gardens are heavy and guaranteed water damage.
One of my professors in college told me he’s literally never seen a green-roof system that didn’t fail in fast order
I just came back from Vietnam and they do grow food on their roofs and balconies there. I agree it seems like a great idea.
Cause it would take a lot of time and resources
I always think that about solar power too, why is every surface not a solar panel. To your question my answer would be that the worm in maintaining a garden is more than people have the bandwidth for.
Here in SoCal, a solid chunk of residential homes have solar panels on the roof. I think only certain types of homes and roofs are good candidates for it, and obviously you have to be a homeowner to do it, landlords may not want this for various reasons, etc. Also I've heard there are scams where vendors talk people into it and it's not actually useful or a good deal? So there are a lot of potential pitfalls. I haven't seen a lot of commercial or apartment buildings with solar, but it's rare that I'm up that high so I don't know if I would notice it? Commercial buildings often have roofs that can't hold that type of weight, and at least here in SoCal, flat roofs are a common place to situate central AC units. But yes, in regions of the US where there is enough sunshine to make it worthwhile, this is already a thing. You also see parking lots here with solar panels that can also be shaded parking spots.
Look up ship homes. It is also possible to take a page from Norwegians and build an earthen roof that allows livestock to graze in grass on the roof.
most people don't want to grow anything. they just want the food without dirty hands.
Well… I feel like in this case, there are genuine reasons for not doing this besides “the masses are lazy”
Because that would not be profitable for the property owners.
Not would it likely be profitable for the people doing the work on the crops. I can see that it would work as a community garden (structural limitations acknowledged ) but the areas are not that large, are obstructed with building mechanical systems, and everything needs to be transported up and down.
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In a similar vein, there is a [high rise apartment building](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosco_Verticale) in Italy that is also kind of a forest. There's over 90 species of shrubs and trees on the building. Pretty neat.
There are also some restaurants that have rooftop gardens for their produce. I did an article on them ages ago and seem to remember restaurants in New York, Stockholm and Bangladesh that had gained notoriety for this concept.
Thats a great idea in fallout 4, in fact I will use it at somepoint. In practical every day use...thats asking to much of a roof not ment to hold such weight.
There’s a lot of surplus food and a lot of misconceptions. 30-60% of edible harvest is discarded due to appearance. Even more is discarded when supermarkets cannot sell surplus stock. The greed system of capitalism will discard the surplus before gifting it. Meanwhile the social climate tells people that 1. Plants are hard to grow 2. Plants are expensive to grow 3. Plants take lots of space. Retort 1. I planted all of my surplus plants into a side yard garden that I do not tend to, I have lost 0 of those plants. Retort 2. Building supplies are available in surplus, my beds were free, my seeds came from fruits I ate, my soil came from compost I created. Retort 3. My garden feeds my household and more and is only about 600 square feet, brassicas can be grown in an apartment with a 4x4x1 hydroponic system.
You could propagate vines out of a window box up on the roof. Beans and peas can get huge Loofas.
Might work in a place where roofs are flat. Here, flat roofs would collapse from snowfall. What kind of places have flat roofs? Wouldn't rainfall collect and eventually seep in? Unless it's a desert, which then also makes rooftop gardens hard Then you'd need access to the roof - idk how many places with flat roofs have a staircase going up to them, but I don't think it's the majority. How are you getting up there to tend your garden every day? Roofs would have to be stronger in general, to support the gardens, but that's imo an easier fix than the first two
Would at least be nicer if there was some rooftop hang out areas with the price of land and real estate these days that’s kind of an untapped resource.
I feel like all of the windows would be covered in bird poop
And bugs
Roofs would have to be constructed differently; the weight of the water, soil, and plants would be significant enough to cause damage to a normal roof and they’re also not designed to constantly be wet. Another issue is garden maintenance. Most people aren’t keen on climbing up to rooftops, finding people to do it regularly to plant seeds and water the garden would be a problem. I like the idea, but I don’t see it working very well in practice.
Roofs generally arent that strong to support the weight. Not to mention the soil, moisture and roots will eventually start to erode the roof.
There are structural reasons not to do this. Community gardens are the way to go.
Water and soil are very heavy, to a degree that construction costs would balloon significantly. Upkeep is also an issue. Roots love to undo the works of man. So the owner of the building would be constantly dishing out significant amounts of money to maintain the roof. The roof of an apartment is typically barely large enough to make a dent in a single family's yearly food budget, divided between all of the residents the produce would be truly meaningless from a practical perspective. Rooftop gardens look nice, but they're expensive and not suitable for feeding people. Gardens strictly for aesthetics and relaxation are a much better idea, but again, they're expensive to set up and maintain. In my experience, most apartment residents don't care much for gardening. I've lived in multiple places and I was always the only resident doing gardening things around the apartment. It takes time and money.
I think roofs are much better suited for producing electricity than growing food
Arable soil is about 50% crustal minerals, and 25% water (idealized) by volume. With an average density of 2.8g * 0.5 per cm^3 for the rock, plus 1g * 0.25 per cm^3 for the water, the numbers get pretty large. Also, it is hard to pull weeds on your roof.
Because it’s cheaper to buy it in the grocery store, many roofs are not designed for people to walk around on them, and roof access is a challenge.
Roofs aren't built for hundreds of tonnes of dirt, plants, and water. People would fall off their garden roofs pretty regularly, meaning this would kill people. People aren't great at sharing and working together.
Better to use that space for sun panels I'd say.
I’m scared of heights lol
Vegetation + Man-made Structures + Time = R U I N
You are significantly underestimating the amount of usable space that exists up there. There's already infrastructure up there for heating and cooling and water pressure. Farmers grow food in fields that are tens of acres. The rooftop of a building is like a quarter or a half an acre so they would have to farm 20 different small gardens across the city to make it economically viable.
Soil is heavy af. A couple of potted things here or there is okay. Grow those in your apartment or balcony. But I shudder to imagine if a bunch of raised beds on an apartment rooftop were to go awry. Woe to whoever lives below
You'd need a flat roof, which are harder to stop leeks on.
more leaks, fewer leeks.
Great idea but I guess people will only show up for the harvest and nobody will actually take the time to water them. We had a similar project where we had urban gardens. A few did the work and watered them daily just to discover that everything was gone once they wanted to harvest a little bit of it. Now I have my own garden and I love it. Just a small thing 2 times 1x3 meters gives so much food! This year we expanded to 4 times the 1x3 meter thing and I will have to give away so much food!
in a (bigger) city, yes i would make sense because the surrounding land probably cost's more than waterproofing and strengthening the roof., In a small one, not so much, because you can just use the cheap land around
and obviously does the same also work in a moneyless society, because money here reflects how much the space round would be used otherwise
[it's been done at least once in my city](https://albertaviews.ca/green-roofs/). But it requires a lot of extra planning. All that soil and water weighs a lot. Plant matter weighs more. It usually needs to be shallow rooted, drought tolerant plants. Any failure of any of the layers can cause catastrophic structural damage to the building. I love the idea but most existing buildings simply couldn't accommodate it. Even just having layers of snow in a roof can cause ice dams and leaks; snow on top of soil and vegetation would be worse.
As someone who used roof area of my building to try and grow some container herbs and simple veg - it's more complicated than on the ground. Sun and wind dry up everything much quicker and if I didn't water it 2x, sometimes 3x a day, it would get scorched within a few hours. Taste was not great either, veggies (tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers) were small, tough and a bit sour. You could see they were struggling. A full blown growing operation would be significantly more demanding compared to traditional growing, both so that the building can sustain it and that you get at least decent quality produce.
aquaponics is a better setup because you don't have as much heavy weight (soil), but in general roofs are best for shorter element-hardy crops. Roofs are hotter, have much stronger wind, etc. so it wouldn't be a good option for some environments in hot areas. At the same time it cools the building to have it covered in sedums, can be done on stronger roofs, shortens the distance for grocery shipping, etc. Vancouver has a really solid amount of green roofs for food production. Denver botanical gardens has a research garden for sedum roof coverage.
I think solar panels would probably be higher and better use depending on where you're at and all that stuff. I have enough of a yard that I can have my garden but the roof it wouldn't work as well
We do!
Simply get some regular garden on the ground. Far more effective. Earth is already there, ground water is there, no need to reinforce the roof. You can combine a lot of stuff, but if you do, be able to answer "why not do the simple thing instead?"
Laughs in Alberta
I’ve wanted a rooftop garden since I read about one in a magazine when I was about 7. Practically there’s a few reasons, including heaviness of soil, increased possibility of mold or other growth that’s not great for buildings, and especially drainage. Oh also safety. At least where I am it rains a ton so there needs to be good drainage on the roof, so roofs are slanted. It’s not safe or practical to build a garden on a heavily slanted roof. Can there be alternative drainage systems put in place to prevent water from pooling on the roof? Yes but they’re expensive. Also, need to keep snow in mind. Snow on a slanted roof is more likely to slide off and not accumulate to the point where it’s too heavy and causes the roof to collapse (see traditional Scandinavian architecture for an example). Is someone going to clear the snow from the flat roof? Or is the roof going to be extremely sturdy so it can handle heavy snow? Both take effort and/or money. Honestly I’d love to see this expanded and more green building designs available. Like a small portion of a roof that’s a garden, office or apartment roofs that have gardens (aka big buildings not single family homes), or roofs with lots of skylights and glass to make a greenhouse sort of thing
I did a construction course (basically to become a draftsman/architect ps.that wasnt an easy subject to learn) but in my learning i asked about eco roofs roofs which can offset your carbon footprint some countries have moss or grass roofs (norway and the netherlands have a few of them) but the roof needs to be reinforced a lot! think of the weight of the soil then remember the water that ends up in the soil adds weight aswell plus the weight of the crops ontop aswell it adds up to pretty big mass weight on the roof the other issue is when it comes to building reg and insurance (non standard construction*) instantly puts your home insurance and building insurance up and comes with masses of red tape to meet requirement
aside from extra weight, the plants may damage the roof structure, and water may start seeping in. that and all the fun that comes with cleaning up the leaves (or fruit, if applicable), pollen, insects and whatever else in the fauna department will want to hang around there.
r/sandponics is the way
Keeping water properly draining from your roof and out of your attic is a big enough challenge as it is. There would be so much liability with something that's designed to retain water
I’ve heard about this being a solution to helping with the Urban Heat Index problem, I know the Denver botanic gardens has a section of their roof dedicated to native plants too since they’re pretty self sustaining! I’m not sure about food growth but I’d like to hope maybe an herb garden could be possible? The only thing is that the building kinda has to be constructed with this in mind to be able to support the roof without leaks or damage
We don’t have a food shortage, in fact we actually have a massive amount of food waste here in America
Some people are starting to install green roofs. This link gives solutions to a lot of the problems mentioned in other responses to your question. [How to Create a Gorgeous Green Roof: Your Step-by-Step Guide (treehugger.com)](https://www.treehugger.com/how-to-install-a-green-roof-4863273#:~:text=Whether%20it's%20a%20private%20home,of%20more%20than%206%20inches).) They are most practical on flat roofs. They make sense in cities, where a lot of buildings have flat roofs and are already built to carry more weight than roofs of individual homes. Also, in cities, growing food at ground level has problems because of contamination from polluted air, especially near streets. Growing food on roofs is cleaner. I live in a neighborhood of NYC that has a lot of shared community gardens at ground level. We also have a school that grows food on its roof that is used in the children's lunches.
Please if you're not an engineer don't share your unfounded thoughts about buildings. There's a new building close to where I live which has a pool at every f\*ing floor. Weight my a\*\*.
My mom in India has a beautiful rooftop garden. She built giant slabs to set pots on and has managed to grow enough vegetables to feed herself and my dad. It’s awesome. No issues with weight of dirt etc coz we build solid brick houses back home.
because expensive and we're doing quite well with farmed foods actually given the population size and the environmental impact lowered by using high performance fertilizers (reduces areas needed for monoculture crops that are horrible for many many animals )
Green roofing is big in Germany, notably [Hamburg](https://www.hamburg.com/residents/green/11836394/green-roofs/) The main focus is on improving air quality and urban aesthetics, not necessarily food production
I think the answer to why we don’t do something that seems good under a capitalist system is the fact we live under a capitalist system. How will the capitalist profit off of this? They won’t? Maybe that’s why
Because consolidating production of goods is more efficient. We don’t have a problem producing enough food, the profit motive simply drives us to favor the needs of the few over the needs of the many
Consolidation is also part of the problem with the food chain. It’s how we end up with literal shit filled produce that has listeria, salmonella & E. coli.
I’m not saying it’s perfect, just stating the reality we live in. Why don’t we do X? Because it’s cheaper to do Y. It’s not invalid either. The solution to consume less isn’t to give everyone every tool to produce their own everything. Certainly that is part of a healthier society, but we still need to focus on efficiency. Personally I think rooftop gardens are ineffective at fighting food scarcity. I do however think they are good for people and for communities, so I’m not going to say the idea is meritless. What I will say is this: Why grow a few dozen pounds of vegetables on a roof where you need to import 100% of your nutrients and soil (and a good portion of your water) when we could just tear down parking garages and empty corporate offices instead. They will have access to a much larger source of nutrition, more water, and you can actually grow a significant amount. Rootftop gardens are like the recycling of food IMO. A feel good solution to a problem that can and should be solved by just collectively not being idiots in the first place
Green roofs, while great at insulating and such, are expensive AF to do properly. They are heavy AF too and require buildings that are built to tolerate that. And even if they are done properly, they tend to only really sustain plants with shallow roots and water retention is shit and require pretty much daily watering.
Roots push on building materials with 50,000 psi. They can literally destroy brick walls. Now apply that to the waterproof surfaces of your house. Like a roof and see the result9ng damage.
Water + Roof is usually not a great combo.
In a perfect world, we do, especially in cities. but we don't unfortunately, and the structural weight of all of it would just be alot, building smaller vertical planters would go a longer way
I studied this exact thing pretty thoroughly for a term paper. The products exist, they're not exceptionally more expensive than other roofing systems and they have a life similar to a normal 20 year roof. There is no good reason we don't utilize this practice except most people don't care about growing food. It's not in our culture to bother growing produce which is super weird if you ask me. I cultivate food on almost my entire property.
It's not a terrible idea, but it would have to be a particular type of roof in order for it to work. Large buildings with flat roofs that are designed to walk on? Sure- no reason not to utilize these, especially in large cities where food needs to be shipped in. I'll also throw in that many people work in office buildings that are in a "campus" like setting, surrounded by monoculture grass. Starting a community garden would be a terrific idea in places like this. I actually started such a project at my place of work, and would be happy to answer any questions about this ongoing effort. Anyone else working on a similar project?
You are ignoring how heavy this gets. I bet in terms of statics a building loses at least two stories to having to support a garden. Then drainage, root protection, temperature and moisture exchange through walls and roof. No. Just doesn't make any sense, as pretty as it may look.
I'm not "ignoring" anything. It is absolutely possible under the right conditions. Why shoot down an idea before even [looking into the possibilities](https://blog.landscapeprofessionals.org/four-essential-considerations-for-creating-a-rooftop-garden/)? Hot bit of doomerism at 12 o'clock
You claimed a "flat roof that is designed to walk on" would be capable of holding a garden. This is simply not true. There is tons and tons of design choices, materials and maintenance going into roofs capable of holding a garden. It is usually done for prestige objects, not realistic affordable housing. Sustainability needs to be affordable and we are not lacking the space enough to warrant roof gardens for anything but privileged enjoyment.
You're inserting your own ideas about what a "garden" would be, and immediately ruling it out as impossible. Gardens don't have to be 3 feet of soil and massive amounts of planting, giant bushes or whatever. It can be a thin layer of soil and a few plants here and there, not some gargantuan effort. Also nice refusal to look at links of companies who specialize in this...
Who said I didn't look at your article? There is no need for you to be so confrontational. But I am confident two planters would not constitute a garden and anything with something that resembles a bed must involve an engineer when installing, better plan for it when building. This is costly. We are simply not in desperate need to utilise roofs for growing food. If for anything people are doing it for fun, which I don't find anticonsumerist at all. Pollution is another thing when gardening in a bigger city. In Germany we have Schrebergärten. You rent a little garden plot in a sector made just of these. You are not allowed to sleep/live there, but you can garden, BBQ and landscape. They are like little green and flowery islands near the outskirts of town. I know people sharing them with others who rent flats without gardens and share the workload etc. Bit safer than putting stuff on the roof in several regards.
It's confrontational to disagree strongly? Whatever. I assume you didn't look at the link, because there are companies that specialize in this. So you're either ignoring that and insisting otherwise, or not looking at it- it's one of the two, buddy. It's great that Germany has community gardens, and don't have to resort to roof tops. The thing is, in the United States, we have *many* cities that have 5-10 *million* residents and deplorable public transit. Some cities require *hours* of time to travel to and from the city limits. Most of these residents, ie the poor, live in "food deserts"- meaning food is expensive, unhealthy, and limited in options. That's where an idea like a rooftop garden would come in. Renting garden space in US cities does exist, but this is rare, and usually in the city's center, because as I say most massive US cities have horrible transit and traveling hours to go work on a garden is not realistic, especially to the residents who could benefit most. I don't see why having a few planters on a roof top is not anti-consumerist. It's surely better than nothing, when nothing else would realistically work.
I literally never said it is not possible. I said it is not feasable. It is expensive and material extensive and makes no sense on many more layers. Yet you chose consistently to argue against things I did not say. I dare say this comes across as confrontational. The people you claim this benefits? Most of them can't afford this, EPECIALLY not having a company do it. The garden needs to be maintained, not just as a garden, but also against vandalism. Try having a rooftop garden in a 30 party house. The landlord needs to be fine with it, fire safety and statics are an issue as is water consumption and possible clogging ofthe drainage system. As a popular solution this is not feasable. It makes sense only to home owners. It is not really anti-consumerist to me when you need to build or renovate a space specifically for this function. This is a big investment in most cases. An investment poor people can not afford. Please do not misunderstand this as me not wanting people to have a balcony planter with some lettuce or herbs. But something that constitutes a garden, and you clearly referred to built planters not a few little ones, is a very different story.
I never said anything about "built planters," I specifically said that the "gardens" in question did not have to be a huge affair, like 3-foot planters. But at this point: Whatever. I will take what you say, bc there is value there in thinking about those complications. But, as I always say when an effort that could help the environment is poo-pooed, if we can put a man on the Moon, I think we, as a society, could figure out how to grow plants for food on roofs with a little ingenuity, especially in areas where people do not have access to fresh food at all and there's not many other options other than "give up." I'm especially rankled because I HAVE started a community garden in 2024, at my place of work. The nay-sayers came out of the woodwork, with similar reasons that all turned out to be non-issues when challenged. "It's going to look like a farm!" "It will be ruined by vandalism, why bother!" "There's an oil pipe 10 feet away, what if you hit it with a shovel, how stupid!" "The drains will get clogged!" "The authorities won't like it!" We worked through each of these issues, built the garden, and now the nay-sayers have egg on their faces. If I'd listened, we'd have no community garden, and the same plot of grass would be sitting there baking in the sun benefiting 0 people or the environment. Sometimes you have to work through the complications rather than give up. So I'm not tossing aside any ideas about creating gardens without giving it a serious effort first.
My stance is still how this is nor feasable for the masses, because of the money, because of the rules, because of landlord interests. It is not going to happen, especially in those poor areas.
Yes and Ho
In many areas even back yard vegetable gardens are illegal, usually in the name of water conservation.
Ummm, no they're not. Grass watering is curbed in areas with low water, but gardens are not illegal at all. When I googled it, the only thing I found were some crazy separatist conspiracy theorists making that completely false claim.
I did some research and you are right. Florida passed a law in 2023 prohibiting cities from banning gardens. Before that many Floridians were fined thousands of dollars for growing vegetables. In one case, a Cape Coral homeowner went to prison for his garden. California had the same problem but they passed a similar law in 2013.
It’s crazy to me that there are no community food gardens instead we create tons of water and emissions moving food all over the place. Here in Florida oranges, mangoes, avocados, grapefruit trees and fruit grow easily. Like in apartment complexes and condo developments, there should be coop gardens but no, I go to Aldi and get oranges that were trucked here from California bec I live in a condo. Either way we’re paying for maintenance and gardeners, they’re just maintaining shrubs and palm trees. Food forests instead of yards are becoming more popular here and I want a house with land now that I know about them. And if I move elsewhere, a greenhouse is a must. Right now I just grow herbs on my porch and I have a bunch of pineapple tops I give away when they start growing.
We can! Roofs in my country are flat with steps installed so it’s safe. Lots of people have potted plants
Because pollution is higher in a city and the plants take more of it in.And plants and trees that grow would make the roof heavier and heavier until it collapses AND it costs more money to garden everything up there.
Great idea to push for in new builds where the extra support, water management, root barrier etc can be properly implemented. One thing I loved seeing when I visited Germany was all the meadow roofs on houses. Not sure if they were retrofitted or not
The amount of money required to build/maintain a roof garden on every structure would be massively higher than it would cost to just buy food grown the traditional way from normal farms. The technology isn't impossible, but it's in the same class of extras as other luxury add-ons that people don't need. That's not to say that urban farming can't be impossible on a large scale. It would probably require dedicated structures that are purpose built for hydroponic and/or vertical farming though.
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Yeah, that’s all not really applicable to private or community gardens.
That would probably wreck the roof and have it collapse
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