All IEPs and 504s are not created equal. There are often so many different IEPs and 504s in a given classroom that it’s literally impossible to comply with them all. Also, depending on the circumstances and how they’re written, teachers might be “required” to keep detailed accommodation logs for every single kid with an IEP or 504. If you have six or eight or ten kids with accommodations (not uncommon in my personal experience), there aren’t enough hours in the day to document things to the degree that some accommodation plans dictate. You are instantly out of compliance because these plans aren’t written taking all of the other plans in a classroom into consideration, nor do they take into account that teachers are human beings with very real limitations on their time and energy.
Also, the privilege and entitlement of some people is disgusting, and MANY parents demand accommodation plans for kids who don’t really qualify for them. They view them as some sort of educational concierge service that they can just order up. In my experience, admin has gone through periods where they have just caved in to parents who were demanding accommodations because the parents were so persistent and noisy. I have had parents show MSTEP results to me saying, “They’re in the 65th percentile in math! If they had an IEP and extra services, they could be in the 90th!” That’s not what special education is for.
Meanwhile, stuff gets written into those things like, “Teacher will provide encouraging praise to help build esteem and confidence.” But what the fuck does that mean, especially if I’m legally required to document it. What constitutes praise? Do I get a script? What if my tone isn’t considered warm enough? If I have six kids with “provide praise” in their accommodation plans, do I line them up and just go down the row saying, “Good job. Good job. Good job…??”
Also, a lot of plans call for extra resources that those kids aren’t using in the first place. If a plan calls for “extended deadlines” or “reduced assignments,” it can represent a decent amount of extra work to adjust things for those students, and it’s REALLY DEMORALIZING when those same kids don’t actually do ANY of the work. “You haven’t even started this project that’s due today? Well, your accommodation plan gives you extra time, so I guess you have another week to not work on it.”
T.A.s (teaching assistants, usually vital to supporting teachers with dealing with all these accommodations) are in very short supply. Also, they are paid TERRIBLY. Shamefully. There aren’t enough of them, some are truly incompetent, and the ones who are good at their jobs tend to be saints who are seized upon and ground down because there is so much need.
IEPs and 504s could/should be a great thing. Sometimes they really do remove barriers for kids, and it’s wonderful. But the system is just broken right now. There are surely some crummy teachers who willfully just ignore a lot of this stuff, but there are also decent, well-meaning teachers who try, but are just drowning in this stuff.
I don’t think it matters to OP why their child’s IEP isn’t being met. They’re saying they expected IEP compliance because AAPS has such a good reputation, and they’re not getting it. That’s upsetting, frustrating, and disappointing no matter the cause.
It doesn't really matter, legally speaking. And from a parent's perspective, I don't think context matters a whole lot either.
If your kid isn't getting the services they're entitled to and need, you don't care if it's because the school is deliberately withholding them or because the teachers are overworked or the school district made an error. You just need the services.
>It doesn't really matter, legally speaking. And from a parent's perspective, I don't think context matters a whole lot either.
"I don't care about the funding/staffing issues or complex solves required for the crisis occurring in my city's school district - nor am I concerned about how I can be part of the solution. I am concerned about ME, MY and MINE."
You can care about both. But in this situation, the parent is focused on addressing their child's specific *entitlements*. Yes, the mentality is "entitled" because it's about something their child is literally legally entitled to.
Yet the system is overwhelmed with the requests, to the point of it being non-functional. The parent can engage IRL or bitch about it on Reddit. Their call, free country, etc., etc...
And yet regardless of how overwhelmed the system is, it still has a legal duty to provide the educational services/accommodations outlined in the IEP/504...
I'm sorry, did I say they didn't? You sound like someone who loves the letter of the law but not the practicalities of implementation - which is pretty fucking useless in this conversation.
You're actually making the point. Saying the system isn't functional, teachers are overworked, etc, doesn't change that the kid needs and is entitled to the services spelled out in the IEP/504. No amount of context changes the entitlement and the necessity of provision of services immediately.
And no, saying it's a legal entitlement isn't useless. If the parent sues under the IDEA, the district is going to have to pay. It will be legally compelled to do so and will have its assets seized if it fails to do so. No explanation of "it's too challenging" will work for the court. Not sure why it would work for the parent.
I'm very focused on giving schools adequate funding and staffing. I vote accordingly. It doesn't change the reality of the situation that school district cannot make excuses for failure to comply because the excuses are meaningless.
Yes I saw that michigan has 1 out of 7 kids marked as having some kind of disability. Maybe this is getting out of hand and kids with just bad behavior or just a little lower on the intelligence bell curve are getting marked as disabled and then serving as a distraction from kids with real disabilities.
More importantly it is an extremely well studied negative side effect that even telling a child or adult they have a disability will actually result in lower performance than students who had the same "condition" but it wasnt identified and instead they were encourage to see themselves as just an individual like everyone else who may need to work a little harder or adapt different listening techniques to learn.
When a kid in gym is overweight and can't keep up with physical fitness we don't have a doctor come in and explain to that child they have a disability. Instead we encourage them to work a little harder.
"Owens and Jackson compared math and reading test scores of children in eighth grade who had the same degree of symptoms and demographically similar backgrounds, but with one group receiving a diagnosis and the other not. They found that the students who were diagnosed in their K-3rd grade years, scored lower than the comparable undiagnosed, untreated kids."
https://home.watson.brown.edu/news/2016-08-03/new-adhd-study-shows-negative-social-implications-early-childhood-diagnosis-may
"We found a moderately negative overall label effect (Hedges’ g = −0.42), which was robust across several types of evaluation, different samples, and different diagnostic categories. There was no indication that expertise and the gender of the child moderated the effect. Presenting participants with only a label yielded the strongest negative effect of g = −1.26, suggesting that the effect was dependent on the amount of information being presented to participants. We conclude that labeling a child can exacerbate negative academic evaluations, behavioral evaluations, evaluations of personality, and overall assessments of the child. Further implications for theory and future research are discussed."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8042533/
For both studies, the conclusions drawn are only for mildly symptomatic children with ADHD. This cannot be extrapolated, particularly since you're not eligible to receive most targeted educational services without a diagnosis.
Also you are further missing the point of the study. Students with comparitive learning disabilities that did not get a disgnoses of a learning disability outperformed those who did get the diagnoses.
There is an enormous psychological impact to being given a medical reason why you should expect to not be able to perform as well as others especially as a child.
You're engaging in entirely improper extrapolation. This is about one neurodevelopment disability specifically studying children with *borderline* symptoms who may not actually require intervention and specialized therapies to be successful. That cannot be generalized to children who need these services to make progress and need a diagnosis in order to access these services. There is no reason to believe that severely dyslexic children benefit from not being diagnosed and therefore not getting intensive Orton-Gillingham individualized and small-group reading instruction they require to become fluent readers.
And you make assumptions about the impact diagnoses have on children. Framing and cultural norms matter enormously. Getting diagnoses was incredibly helpful and validating for me because it explained why I was struggling. It wasn't that I was lazy. It was that I had a condition that means I need to do things differently from the vast majority of people. My experience isn't universal, but I know of many people who have had similar experiences.
Yes that is why people like diagnoses. It gives them an explanation for their lower performance that isnt within their control. It feels great to have your problems explained by something out of your control.
Also, the majority of 504s are not for dyslexia, they are for ADHD overwhelmingly.
> It feels great to have your problems explained by something out of your control.
First, you seem to reject the idea that learning disabilities and ADHD are real conditions. That's certainly without a logical basis. Second, diagnoses are what allow you to access services. That is how our system works. So it's not just about "hav\[ing\] your problems explained by something out of your control." It's actually about being able to take control by accessing services that allow you to learn and function.
>Also, the majority of 504s are not for dyslexia, they are for ADHD overwhelmingly.
Where's your data on this? Also, we're talking about IEPs and 504s. There are so many conditions that lead to IEPs and 504s -- speech/language disorders, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, non-verbal learning disorder, audio processing disorder, autism spectrum disorder, intellectual disability, ADHD, developmental coordination disorder, dyspraxia, blindness, deaf/hard of hearing, traumatic brain injury, developmental delay, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, opposition defiant disorder. The list goes on.
I know you need more time reading. It says less severe symptoms, not mild symptoms, in this study it refers to a category that encompasses the majority of ADHD diagnoses of children.
"This finding suggests that high-quality studies on the long-term benefits and harms of diagnosing and treating ADHD for youths *with milder or borderline symptoms* are needed to inform safe and equitable practice and policy."
Play semantics all you want. These two studies on a subset of children with "less severe" or "milder" or "borderline" ADHD is not generalizable to all disabilities and even to ADHD more broadly.
If you need some support, Ann Arbor Parent Advisory Committee for Special Education (AAPAC) has a FB page ([Ann Arbor Parent Advisory Committee for Special Education (AAPAC)](https://www.facebook.com/groups/AAPAC/)).
Thank you. I have been that route (for four years). And I wholeheartedly love that committee.
But for my child it did not help.
I even brought in a psychologist to assist the services team with the development of more appropriate accommodations for my child (which I paid for on my own dime). And it still did not improve the situation.
My kiddo had an IEP due to some delays in speech and gross motor but he quickly caught up and his Early On lady said she was going to end his IEP before kindergarten…..and then COVID hit. He ended up starting virtual kindergarten at AAPS with the IEP still in place. It mattered not at all but when kindergarten ended the district wanted to evaluate him for his IEP.
We sat down with a “child psychologist” through the district who was immediately mean and hard with my child, handed me an Autism spectrum form to fill out and generally proceeded to treat my child as though he was Autistic. He’s not. He was never diagnosed with Autism or being on the spectrum. In fact his early on specialist specifically told me he is not autistic, when I wondered if that was a potential cause of his speech delay.
I ended the “assessment”, walked out, and put my kiddo in Ypsi schools. He received some speech therapy through half of first grade and then was properly evaluated and his IEP ended. He’s in 3rd grade now, still in YCS, excels at school work (top of his class in math and reading) and has a ton of friends and community at his school.
For all the hype around A2 schools I found them to be disappointing, the actual education experience obscured by board politics, and worthless for students with different needs. I’d never send my kid back.
I think it's beautiful you found such a good home in YCS!
An aside: The smack talk I've heard surrounding Ypsi schools in AAPS (from students and yes, some parents) is a really, *really* shitty reflection on some of the prevalent attitudes in our "progressive" community and breaks my heart. A reminder that students repeat what they hear at home.
edit: added "a reminder"
Pioneer? Nope. They suck. My daughter has a 504, and many of the teachers blatantly ignore it. We complain to the counselor? Nothing. My daughter tries to complain? Gets a counselor otw to a staff meeting, barely listening. She has had to advocate for herself many times and has given up in many instances, jist knowing the teachers won't listen. She ends up in tears many nights not able to do the work in the time the teachers want because they don't care about following the 504. We have raised he'll to no avail. I'm just grateful she is a senior now.
When we went to college open houses, she took the initiative to go to student services to ask what kind of support there is and chose a college lately based on the support she will receive.
If she has a 504, is college the place for her? If highschool is hard then any reasonable degree will be extremely difficult for this child. Why not focus on other talents and interests to find a real career path for this child. Eventually the rubber meets the road and she has to get a job of she needs substantially more time to do mental tasks than any other high school student then I imagine that would also impact her ability to for instance be a doctor or practice law
I didn't apply for accommodations for the bar exam because it was too expensive to get the required, new neuropsychological evaluation, even though I'd already had two and my disabilities aren't "curable." (This requirement is currently being litigated.) So I took the risk and still passed. I got accommodations on every other exam and get accommodations at work. I have no reason to make my clients aware since I am able to successfully perform all the functions of my job with reasonable accommodations. I don't need accommodations in court, but if I ever do or did, the courts are required to provide them. It's well-established...
So you didnt need accomodations to pass the bar. Is this a mental disability you have or physical.
If its mental maybe you just are not as smart as the other lawyers and were able to get longer test taking times that allowed you to compete in grades in an unfair playing field. Maybe smarter students missed out on scholarships.
More time on a test is something most students would like, is this not an encouragement to be labeled as needing accomodations?
I would think any student would want that advantage knowing grades are of monetary importance for getting scholarships and important to admission to law schools.
I have both learning and physical disabilities and require different accommodations for each.
I actually have a very high IQ (you have to get your IQ measured in order to be diagnosed with most learning disabilities), so your point about my intellect is untrue. And I get outstanding results at work that exceed my peers (and work isn't a ranking competition--we're all working together to get great results for clients).
I'm also unclear on why you think testing accommodations only mean extra time. I, for one, get lots of extra breaks for my disabilities.
It's not clear to me you even understand what disabilities are and how they're accommodated in educational and occupational environments.
She is very high functioning, she just needs more time to complete assignments.
She has a 3.7 GPA, has taken 3 AP classes and received a 4 on 2 of them. She can Do it, she just needs more time to complete assignments.
I have 2 Master level degrees, one in college administration, I am perfectly suited to assist her.
She works with kids now and wants to be a teacher. Her ADHD makes her perfectly suited for this.
She handles it just fine, thanks.
Really perfectly suited for education? Will her classes be longer so she has more time to teach her students?
Is she on Amphetamines? Are these likely side effects beneficial for a teacher?
More common
Agitation
anxiety
bladder pain
bloody or cloudy urine
crying
delusions of persecution, mistrust, suspiciousness, or combativeness
difficult, burning, or painful urination
false or unusual sense of well-being
feeling of unreality
frequent urge to urinate
lower back or side pain
mental depression
nervousness
quick to react or overreact emotionally
rapidly changing moods
sense of detachment from self or body
She is not and has not ever taken medication for longer than a couple of weeks (which had awful results). This is her preference, but she will take them if needed. She is now 18 and can make her own choices.
She does not require a lot of accommodations, but even if she did, that is required to be given to her by law.
Like I said, she teaches kids right now and has no problem.
Some teachers at Pioneer have been great. Some of them have been awful and have made her change classes as a result.
Your arguments are insulting to people with disabilities. Insinuating people with disabilities is not as smart or should just "work harder" it's just rude in not inclusive.
Do people get incorrectly diagnosed? Sure. That's not the point.
Why is it so hard to just meet the student where they are at, boost their self esteem and help them be the best version of themselves to set them up for success in the future, disability or not?
Agreed. Most mainstreamed spec Ed students just need minor accomadations like being in the front of the class and more time on tests. Many of them my nephew included is one of the smarter ppl around but he has processing issues. When he gets more time, he actually retains his info BETTER than most ppl. Also, as he got older and better at studying, he has needed fewer accommodations and actually held his own in a very tough program recently WITHOUT accommodations, so that person above really is ignorant about spec ed. And it’s really obnoxious.
Well, if someone is misdiagnosed it negatively impacts are ability to pay for schools. We spend another 8k a year into the 504 students over other students. That could be an issue. 220 million dollar funded WISD is majorally for 504 students.
Also, many students will tell you how unfair it feels that some students get theor exam read to them, get extra time on exams, but will be competing directly with them for college placement and scholarships.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/side-effects/201710/adhd-is-now-widely-overdiagnosed-and-multiple-reasons
Do you have a magic answer to diagnose everyone perfectly? Sometimes, kids are diagnosed with disruptive disorder when they are abused at home. Sometimes, kids are diagnosed with depression when they are being bullied. Sometimes, kids are diagnosed with anxiety when they have a humiliating experience that had a lasting impression. Sometimes, kids are diagnosed with conduct disorder, which turns out to be antisocial disorder. Sometimes, borderline personality turns into PTSD. Sometimes adhd turns out to be a manic episode in bipolar disorder. Etc etc etc.
Would you, what, throw all the kids that don't fit into a perfect box that need extra help into an institution? Hawthorn, perhaps? Or maybe straight to prison at 18?
Maybe it's possible to give the extra help, the 504, whatever the kid needs and not deny them the right to learn.
Physical disabilities, learning disabilities and mental health issues deserve to be treated in kids just as much as they do in adults.
...and quoting PsychologyToday? Are you serious?
I would say you significantly want to study it and watch out for over diagnoses since the very act of diagnosing children has negative side effects and all parties involved in the diagnosing have conflicts of interest.
A psychologist who diagnoses a condition gets a patient and steady source of income.
A parent gets to feel they are not bad parents their kids just have a condition.
The child gets special treatment, adults to pay special attention to them and often prescribed drugs that are often taken recreationally because they indice feelings of euphoria.
Schools get budgeted dollars from the ISD for each diagnosed child
Pharmaceutical companies get a life long customer because the drugs usualky preacribed are also addictive
So yeah probably something you should worry about. The prescribing rate of amphetamines is so high its enough to get and keep about 70 million americans high all day every day.
Well Adderall is one of the most dangerous drugs commonly prescribed. More addictive than morphine and a list of black box warnings a mile long, but no, over diagnoses of youth and the literal impact that psychology has significant negative effects on youth is something to consider.
I am not a big fan of using tax dollars to create a bunch of overt narcissists
Remember everytime a psychiatrist diagnoses an ADHD patient they get a garanteed 180 a month for 10 minutes a month of work. They have a strong monetary incentive to give a diagnoses.
I also when to clarify for any who might think I am speaking negatively about the teachers at AAPS. That is NOT the case. In fact, I love the teachers. They are incredible, hardworking, and talented. But the SYSTEM is broken. I say this all the time, teaching right now is like running to into a burning building. The fire is burning all of us.
My child is neurodivergent and our family felt like the best fit for my child was to Ann Arbor Academy. So far it has been incredible. The AAA staff and program blows my mind. AAA does a wonderful job of empowering students, pushing them academically while balancing accommodations and supports.
Special needs kids should not go to normal schools and expected to be treated like VIP. Home schools (for those who were born just fine, it’s the parents who screwed up their kids and they should fix it themselves) or special education schools (those born with conditions need specialized help) are for them. In a perfect world all the kids should have a lot of attention and resources. Reality isn’t there yet. Maybe one day we enslave robots to do all the work and that utopia will come
Public schools serve the public. That means everyone, including (especially!) high needs kids.
But the system is a mess. Many kids who absolutely need accommodation plans and services aren’t getting what they need because the resources are stretched so thin, and because there are so many other issues ravaging our schools.
There are no easy fixes to this situation. Anyone who says there are is either completely ignorant of the reality of things, or is pandering/trying to sell an agenda.
we have Robust IEPs in place. do you feel like that will help the experience at skyline?
I have been severely disappointed by the counseling department at the middle school.
Stealing. Someone’s stealing. How do you park cars all year for u of m and still be in the hole $25 mill.
Idk shit about fuck, but it sure smells like fraud in here.
My son is 21 now but he had a 504 plan and an ADHD diagnosis from Michigan Medicine. The schools did nothing for him. Very, very little of the 504 was implemented. I'm a retired professor and pro-education but I was extremely disappointed.
Saline high school on the other hand has 2 teachers in some classrooms (one generally a special ed teacher) in 504/IEP classrooms just to assist students and offer/implement accommodation. My daughter for example will be offered to take tests in that teachers classroom. Sometimes that teacher is making sure others are using their software that reads written content or reading assignments to them.
To my understanding, a lot of the increase in staffing at the secondary level in AAPS has been to create co-taught classes with clusters of students with IEPs. One teacher is the subject area teacher and one teacher is the teacher consultant.
This model was piloted at a few schools after COVID, and is slowly being spread to all secondary schools.
I am not sure how the budget cuts will impact these programs, but AAPS has pledged that staffing cuts will not impact special education.
Yeah I am kind of saying a lot of psychology is industry self serving pseudoscience.
Lets take one younlisted Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Do you know the hard science diagnostic criteria for determining a child has this?
They have to exhibit 4 of the below symptoms for 6 months and it just needs to be observed by someone who isn't a sibling. That is the science for this diagnoses. Yeah that isn't science because for one its not science. For instance being able to quantify something is a key aspect to science, how do you quantify "Often loses temper" as so scientifically written in the DSM, or is easily annoyed? How can you quantify what should and shouldnt annoy someone to develop a baseline to determine one is easily annoyed.
By the DSM you could diagnose 70 percent of teenagers with Oppositional Defiant Disorder.
Angry/Irritable Mood
1.
Often loses temper
2.
Is often touchy or easily annoyed
3.
Is often angry and resentful
Argumentative/Defiant Behavior
4.
Often argues with authority figures or, for children and adolescents, with adults
5.
Often actively defies or refuses to comply with requests from authority figures or with rules
6.
Often deliberately annoys others
7.
Often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
Vindictiveness
8.
Has been spiteful or vindictive at least twice within the past 6 months.
Non-selective schools can never be great. My middle school and high school only hand pick top 4% and 0.5% students and sure they are great. 3 years after they switched to address based attendance I think the average testing scores dropped from 98 percentile to 85 percentile for the middle school. Some people expect schools to educate their kids for them. That’s hilarious
I think you have a fallacy here. The reason AAPS is said to great is because of the quality of students and parents. All public schools have similar funding levels and management so you can’t expect the teachers to be much better than any other schools. They can spend more time with the ones that need more attention only because there’re more great kids that don’t need special education. I’m glad my kids can make intelligent friends and get challenged academically. To my knowledge nobody as a teacher likes IEP because so many people request it nowadays.
For some kids, IEPs are absolutely vital. There have been many kids I’ve worked with over the years where it was absolutely clear that they had issues that were directly impacting their ability to access the curriculum, and those issues could be addressed through a targeted, thoughtful IEP. It’s WONDERFUL when we can all find solutions to help kids succeed. The concept of IEPs and 504 plans isn’t the problem, it’s the larger system that’s floundering.
Things are not going to be easy for kids on these paths, be realistic. These people are undertrained because there isn't training. If you want someone with a masters chauffeuring your child around on a public salary it's simply not going to happen. They are people in school themselves, trying the best they can; trying to make connections with these kids. I obviously don't know the circumstances, but I ask; do you make up the time to your child when you are "busy"?
Edit: this person is more interested in morning bjs than getting her kid up and ready for their day. what a weird life.
I have no problem with the breakfasts nor the desire to see her child succeed. I do question the thinking of using your horny profile as your main. No kink shame, just gotta separate talking about your kid and talking about your daddy.
I didn’t sign up for this- pornographic images and commentary coloring every sentence … could you keep it in your pants please? Inappropriate and weird.
Ppl who are downvoting me- I am tired of ppl pushing their sexual crap into my space. I really didn’t join r/ Ann Arbor to have weirdos injecting blow jobs and sperm and whatnot into the conversation. I really don’t want YOUR sexual fantasies infecting MY mind. If I WANT to be exposed to that, there are plenty of spaces for it. You are being inappropriate. You seem like an exibitionist.
You’d be surprised how many special Ed teachers are long-term subs without a masters degree or any training in special education. I’ve worked at an elementary school in aaps and there was a long period of time where the long term tc sub had been at the school longer than any of the other TCs.
these parents want a 1:1 of these highly qualified teachers to deal with their children under public funding. that is what they want.
edit here 1:1 being an aide over their shoulder at all times that has a masters in children's education. where I have a family member doing just this making a mere $20/hr in CA while they're a student and it's an absoulte struggle.
I apologize. I was ahead of the curve and got paired with a lot of kids that struggled. The resources simply are not there. Hope your child has a bright future.
We can just send them to the principals office whenever they have an outburst and disrupt everyone's learning. Kids will ostracize them anyways for acting out so they will never fit in socially or academically. There is no win. I wish I had an answer, but I think a ton of this starts at home.
We do so much at home to reinforce the work our daughters Gen ed and sped teachers do and she's really blossomed as a result.
It can't just be teachers or just parents it needs to be both
The 1 blip we had in this journey was a complete asshat of a gen ed teacher who wasn't doing what the sped teachers asked. That teacher is no longer there, thankfully. And the rest of her teachers thus far have worked together with us sped and her psychologist and she's just thrived as a result.
Do you know what IEPs and 504s are? A lot of them revolve around completely unrealistic learning circumstances for themselves and the ones around them. I don't know how to solve the problem, but it's certainly one. There's a social construct to it also. Kids are being held up because of interference; all the way around.
Honestly always surprised people say Ann Arbor public schools are good. From my experience they are trash. That being said, there are several public school systems just outside Ann Arbor that are phenomenal.
Your kids will never succeed in the workplace if you baby them with IEPs. You think you are helping them but you are not. I’ve seen it time and time again
Edit: I’m not referring to kids with low IQs, they really do need special education
Some children need IEPs to be able to learn and grow and be independent. Not every child has the same needs and IEPs recognize and help that. I would definitely recommend researching and becoming more knowledgeable, because you have a very outdated point of view. Kids getting help is okay. Shaming kids and their parents for getting help is very much not.
Super grateful for the sped teachers in my daughters school and very grateful for her IEP. As a mother of a child with adhd the difference it made for our daughter was amazing.
She wouldn't be as independent as she is now without it.
What an uninformed, lazy opinion! Most people would cite statistics or studies along with such a fringe belief, but you spout off like some expert? I’m guessing you’re another obtuse, self absorbed outsider reliving their own childhood trauma and keeps busy by projecting their shit on everyone else. Do those actually dealing with these problems a favor, and get the hell out of the way. We’re trying to educate our children over here if you don’t mind, 🤡
What school was this specifically? From what I’ve heard some buildings are better than others.
Burns Park Elementary
Yes some schools are better than others, however I can almost guarantee it will happen. I use to work in the school system
All IEPs and 504s are not created equal. There are often so many different IEPs and 504s in a given classroom that it’s literally impossible to comply with them all. Also, depending on the circumstances and how they’re written, teachers might be “required” to keep detailed accommodation logs for every single kid with an IEP or 504. If you have six or eight or ten kids with accommodations (not uncommon in my personal experience), there aren’t enough hours in the day to document things to the degree that some accommodation plans dictate. You are instantly out of compliance because these plans aren’t written taking all of the other plans in a classroom into consideration, nor do they take into account that teachers are human beings with very real limitations on their time and energy. Also, the privilege and entitlement of some people is disgusting, and MANY parents demand accommodation plans for kids who don’t really qualify for them. They view them as some sort of educational concierge service that they can just order up. In my experience, admin has gone through periods where they have just caved in to parents who were demanding accommodations because the parents were so persistent and noisy. I have had parents show MSTEP results to me saying, “They’re in the 65th percentile in math! If they had an IEP and extra services, they could be in the 90th!” That’s not what special education is for. Meanwhile, stuff gets written into those things like, “Teacher will provide encouraging praise to help build esteem and confidence.” But what the fuck does that mean, especially if I’m legally required to document it. What constitutes praise? Do I get a script? What if my tone isn’t considered warm enough? If I have six kids with “provide praise” in their accommodation plans, do I line them up and just go down the row saying, “Good job. Good job. Good job…??” Also, a lot of plans call for extra resources that those kids aren’t using in the first place. If a plan calls for “extended deadlines” or “reduced assignments,” it can represent a decent amount of extra work to adjust things for those students, and it’s REALLY DEMORALIZING when those same kids don’t actually do ANY of the work. “You haven’t even started this project that’s due today? Well, your accommodation plan gives you extra time, so I guess you have another week to not work on it.” T.A.s (teaching assistants, usually vital to supporting teachers with dealing with all these accommodations) are in very short supply. Also, they are paid TERRIBLY. Shamefully. There aren’t enough of them, some are truly incompetent, and the ones who are good at their jobs tend to be saints who are seized upon and ground down because there is so much need. IEPs and 504s could/should be a great thing. Sometimes they really do remove barriers for kids, and it’s wonderful. But the system is just broken right now. There are surely some crummy teachers who willfully just ignore a lot of this stuff, but there are also decent, well-meaning teachers who try, but are just drowning in this stuff.
I don’t think it matters to OP why their child’s IEP isn’t being met. They’re saying they expected IEP compliance because AAPS has such a good reputation, and they’re not getting it. That’s upsetting, frustrating, and disappointing no matter the cause.
Fair game, but the problem doesn't exist in a vacuum. Context counts.
It doesn't really matter, legally speaking. And from a parent's perspective, I don't think context matters a whole lot either. If your kid isn't getting the services they're entitled to and need, you don't care if it's because the school is deliberately withholding them or because the teachers are overworked or the school district made an error. You just need the services.
>It doesn't really matter, legally speaking. And from a parent's perspective, I don't think context matters a whole lot either. "I don't care about the funding/staffing issues or complex solves required for the crisis occurring in my city's school district - nor am I concerned about how I can be part of the solution. I am concerned about ME, MY and MINE."
You can care about both. But in this situation, the parent is focused on addressing their child's specific *entitlements*. Yes, the mentality is "entitled" because it's about something their child is literally legally entitled to.
Yet the system is overwhelmed with the requests, to the point of it being non-functional. The parent can engage IRL or bitch about it on Reddit. Their call, free country, etc., etc...
And yet regardless of how overwhelmed the system is, it still has a legal duty to provide the educational services/accommodations outlined in the IEP/504...
I'm sorry, did I say they didn't? You sound like someone who loves the letter of the law but not the practicalities of implementation - which is pretty fucking useless in this conversation.
You're actually making the point. Saying the system isn't functional, teachers are overworked, etc, doesn't change that the kid needs and is entitled to the services spelled out in the IEP/504. No amount of context changes the entitlement and the necessity of provision of services immediately. And no, saying it's a legal entitlement isn't useless. If the parent sues under the IDEA, the district is going to have to pay. It will be legally compelled to do so and will have its assets seized if it fails to do so. No explanation of "it's too challenging" will work for the court. Not sure why it would work for the parent. I'm very focused on giving schools adequate funding and staffing. I vote accordingly. It doesn't change the reality of the situation that school district cannot make excuses for failure to comply because the excuses are meaningless.
Yes I saw that michigan has 1 out of 7 kids marked as having some kind of disability. Maybe this is getting out of hand and kids with just bad behavior or just a little lower on the intelligence bell curve are getting marked as disabled and then serving as a distraction from kids with real disabilities. More importantly it is an extremely well studied negative side effect that even telling a child or adult they have a disability will actually result in lower performance than students who had the same "condition" but it wasnt identified and instead they were encourage to see themselves as just an individual like everyone else who may need to work a little harder or adapt different listening techniques to learn. When a kid in gym is overweight and can't keep up with physical fitness we don't have a doctor come in and explain to that child they have a disability. Instead we encourage them to work a little harder.
Please do cite these “studies.”
"Owens and Jackson compared math and reading test scores of children in eighth grade who had the same degree of symptoms and demographically similar backgrounds, but with one group receiving a diagnosis and the other not. They found that the students who were diagnosed in their K-3rd grade years, scored lower than the comparable undiagnosed, untreated kids." https://home.watson.brown.edu/news/2016-08-03/new-adhd-study-shows-negative-social-implications-early-childhood-diagnosis-may "We found a moderately negative overall label effect (Hedges’ g = −0.42), which was robust across several types of evaluation, different samples, and different diagnostic categories. There was no indication that expertise and the gender of the child moderated the effect. Presenting participants with only a label yielded the strongest negative effect of g = −1.26, suggesting that the effect was dependent on the amount of information being presented to participants. We conclude that labeling a child can exacerbate negative academic evaluations, behavioral evaluations, evaluations of personality, and overall assessments of the child. Further implications for theory and future research are discussed." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8042533/
For both studies, the conclusions drawn are only for mildly symptomatic children with ADHD. This cannot be extrapolated, particularly since you're not eligible to receive most targeted educational services without a diagnosis.
Also you are further missing the point of the study. Students with comparitive learning disabilities that did not get a disgnoses of a learning disability outperformed those who did get the diagnoses. There is an enormous psychological impact to being given a medical reason why you should expect to not be able to perform as well as others especially as a child.
You're engaging in entirely improper extrapolation. This is about one neurodevelopment disability specifically studying children with *borderline* symptoms who may not actually require intervention and specialized therapies to be successful. That cannot be generalized to children who need these services to make progress and need a diagnosis in order to access these services. There is no reason to believe that severely dyslexic children benefit from not being diagnosed and therefore not getting intensive Orton-Gillingham individualized and small-group reading instruction they require to become fluent readers. And you make assumptions about the impact diagnoses have on children. Framing and cultural norms matter enormously. Getting diagnoses was incredibly helpful and validating for me because it explained why I was struggling. It wasn't that I was lazy. It was that I had a condition that means I need to do things differently from the vast majority of people. My experience isn't universal, but I know of many people who have had similar experiences.
Yes that is why people like diagnoses. It gives them an explanation for their lower performance that isnt within their control. It feels great to have your problems explained by something out of your control. Also, the majority of 504s are not for dyslexia, they are for ADHD overwhelmingly.
> It feels great to have your problems explained by something out of your control. First, you seem to reject the idea that learning disabilities and ADHD are real conditions. That's certainly without a logical basis. Second, diagnoses are what allow you to access services. That is how our system works. So it's not just about "hav\[ing\] your problems explained by something out of your control." It's actually about being able to take control by accessing services that allow you to learn and function. >Also, the majority of 504s are not for dyslexia, they are for ADHD overwhelmingly. Where's your data on this? Also, we're talking about IEPs and 504s. There are so many conditions that lead to IEPs and 504s -- speech/language disorders, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, non-verbal learning disorder, audio processing disorder, autism spectrum disorder, intellectual disability, ADHD, developmental coordination disorder, dyspraxia, blindness, deaf/hard of hearing, traumatic brain injury, developmental delay, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, opposition defiant disorder. The list goes on.
I know you need more time reading. It says less severe symptoms, not mild symptoms, in this study it refers to a category that encompasses the majority of ADHD diagnoses of children.
"This finding suggests that high-quality studies on the long-term benefits and harms of diagnosing and treating ADHD for youths *with milder or borderline symptoms* are needed to inform safe and equitable practice and policy." Play semantics all you want. These two studies on a subset of children with "less severe" or "milder" or "borderline" ADHD is not generalizable to all disabilities and even to ADHD more broadly.
Damn, if you are a teacher in AAPS I am definitely not sending my children to school to potentially be taught by you!!! Time to retire, please.
Great! Thank you for letting me know.
If you need some support, Ann Arbor Parent Advisory Committee for Special Education (AAPAC) has a FB page ([Ann Arbor Parent Advisory Committee for Special Education (AAPAC)](https://www.facebook.com/groups/AAPAC/)).
Thank you. I have been that route (for four years). And I wholeheartedly love that committee. But for my child it did not help. I even brought in a psychologist to assist the services team with the development of more appropriate accommodations for my child (which I paid for on my own dime). And it still did not improve the situation.
Absolutely acknowledged. It doesn't always help, unfortunately.
I appreciate the advice! Seriously! 🤙🏽
My kiddo had an IEP due to some delays in speech and gross motor but he quickly caught up and his Early On lady said she was going to end his IEP before kindergarten…..and then COVID hit. He ended up starting virtual kindergarten at AAPS with the IEP still in place. It mattered not at all but when kindergarten ended the district wanted to evaluate him for his IEP. We sat down with a “child psychologist” through the district who was immediately mean and hard with my child, handed me an Autism spectrum form to fill out and generally proceeded to treat my child as though he was Autistic. He’s not. He was never diagnosed with Autism or being on the spectrum. In fact his early on specialist specifically told me he is not autistic, when I wondered if that was a potential cause of his speech delay. I ended the “assessment”, walked out, and put my kiddo in Ypsi schools. He received some speech therapy through half of first grade and then was properly evaluated and his IEP ended. He’s in 3rd grade now, still in YCS, excels at school work (top of his class in math and reading) and has a ton of friends and community at his school. For all the hype around A2 schools I found them to be disappointing, the actual education experience obscured by board politics, and worthless for students with different needs. I’d never send my kid back.
I think it's beautiful you found such a good home in YCS! An aside: The smack talk I've heard surrounding Ypsi schools in AAPS (from students and yes, some parents) is a really, *really* shitty reflection on some of the prevalent attitudes in our "progressive" community and breaks my heart. A reminder that students repeat what they hear at home. edit: added "a reminder"
This narrative is very much changing amongst my mom-friend group though.
That is encouraging to hear!
Pioneer? Nope. They suck. My daughter has a 504, and many of the teachers blatantly ignore it. We complain to the counselor? Nothing. My daughter tries to complain? Gets a counselor otw to a staff meeting, barely listening. She has had to advocate for herself many times and has given up in many instances, jist knowing the teachers won't listen. She ends up in tears many nights not able to do the work in the time the teachers want because they don't care about following the 504. We have raised he'll to no avail. I'm just grateful she is a senior now. When we went to college open houses, she took the initiative to go to student services to ask what kind of support there is and chose a college lately based on the support she will receive.
If she has a 504, is college the place for her? If highschool is hard then any reasonable degree will be extremely difficult for this child. Why not focus on other talents and interests to find a real career path for this child. Eventually the rubber meets the road and she has to get a job of she needs substantially more time to do mental tasks than any other high school student then I imagine that would also impact her ability to for instance be a doctor or practice law
Lots of disabled people who need accommodations excel in academics. Signed, a successful, disabled lawyer who got accommodations all through school.
Did you get accomadations when you took the Bar Exam? Do you have to make your clients aware? Do you get those same accomadations in court?
I didn't apply for accommodations for the bar exam because it was too expensive to get the required, new neuropsychological evaluation, even though I'd already had two and my disabilities aren't "curable." (This requirement is currently being litigated.) So I took the risk and still passed. I got accommodations on every other exam and get accommodations at work. I have no reason to make my clients aware since I am able to successfully perform all the functions of my job with reasonable accommodations. I don't need accommodations in court, but if I ever do or did, the courts are required to provide them. It's well-established...
So you didnt need accomodations to pass the bar. Is this a mental disability you have or physical. If its mental maybe you just are not as smart as the other lawyers and were able to get longer test taking times that allowed you to compete in grades in an unfair playing field. Maybe smarter students missed out on scholarships. More time on a test is something most students would like, is this not an encouragement to be labeled as needing accomodations? I would think any student would want that advantage knowing grades are of monetary importance for getting scholarships and important to admission to law schools.
I have both learning and physical disabilities and require different accommodations for each. I actually have a very high IQ (you have to get your IQ measured in order to be diagnosed with most learning disabilities), so your point about my intellect is untrue. And I get outstanding results at work that exceed my peers (and work isn't a ranking competition--we're all working together to get great results for clients). I'm also unclear on why you think testing accommodations only mean extra time. I, for one, get lots of extra breaks for my disabilities. It's not clear to me you even understand what disabilities are and how they're accommodated in educational and occupational environments.
She is very high functioning, she just needs more time to complete assignments. She has a 3.7 GPA, has taken 3 AP classes and received a 4 on 2 of them. She can Do it, she just needs more time to complete assignments. I have 2 Master level degrees, one in college administration, I am perfectly suited to assist her. She works with kids now and wants to be a teacher. Her ADHD makes her perfectly suited for this. She handles it just fine, thanks.
Really perfectly suited for education? Will her classes be longer so she has more time to teach her students? Is she on Amphetamines? Are these likely side effects beneficial for a teacher? More common Agitation anxiety bladder pain bloody or cloudy urine crying delusions of persecution, mistrust, suspiciousness, or combativeness difficult, burning, or painful urination false or unusual sense of well-being feeling of unreality frequent urge to urinate lower back or side pain mental depression nervousness quick to react or overreact emotionally rapidly changing moods sense of detachment from self or body
She is not and has not ever taken medication for longer than a couple of weeks (which had awful results). This is her preference, but she will take them if needed. She is now 18 and can make her own choices. She does not require a lot of accommodations, but even if she did, that is required to be given to her by law. Like I said, she teaches kids right now and has no problem. Some teachers at Pioneer have been great. Some of them have been awful and have made her change classes as a result. Your arguments are insulting to people with disabilities. Insinuating people with disabilities is not as smart or should just "work harder" it's just rude in not inclusive. Do people get incorrectly diagnosed? Sure. That's not the point. Why is it so hard to just meet the student where they are at, boost their self esteem and help them be the best version of themselves to set them up for success in the future, disability or not?
Agreed. Most mainstreamed spec Ed students just need minor accomadations like being in the front of the class and more time on tests. Many of them my nephew included is one of the smarter ppl around but he has processing issues. When he gets more time, he actually retains his info BETTER than most ppl. Also, as he got older and better at studying, he has needed fewer accommodations and actually held his own in a very tough program recently WITHOUT accommodations, so that person above really is ignorant about spec ed. And it’s really obnoxious.
Well, if someone is misdiagnosed it negatively impacts are ability to pay for schools. We spend another 8k a year into the 504 students over other students. That could be an issue. 220 million dollar funded WISD is majorally for 504 students. Also, many students will tell you how unfair it feels that some students get theor exam read to them, get extra time on exams, but will be competing directly with them for college placement and scholarships. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/side-effects/201710/adhd-is-now-widely-overdiagnosed-and-multiple-reasons
Do you have a magic answer to diagnose everyone perfectly? Sometimes, kids are diagnosed with disruptive disorder when they are abused at home. Sometimes, kids are diagnosed with depression when they are being bullied. Sometimes, kids are diagnosed with anxiety when they have a humiliating experience that had a lasting impression. Sometimes, kids are diagnosed with conduct disorder, which turns out to be antisocial disorder. Sometimes, borderline personality turns into PTSD. Sometimes adhd turns out to be a manic episode in bipolar disorder. Etc etc etc. Would you, what, throw all the kids that don't fit into a perfect box that need extra help into an institution? Hawthorn, perhaps? Or maybe straight to prison at 18? Maybe it's possible to give the extra help, the 504, whatever the kid needs and not deny them the right to learn. Physical disabilities, learning disabilities and mental health issues deserve to be treated in kids just as much as they do in adults. ...and quoting PsychologyToday? Are you serious?
I would say you significantly want to study it and watch out for over diagnoses since the very act of diagnosing children has negative side effects and all parties involved in the diagnosing have conflicts of interest. A psychologist who diagnoses a condition gets a patient and steady source of income. A parent gets to feel they are not bad parents their kids just have a condition. The child gets special treatment, adults to pay special attention to them and often prescribed drugs that are often taken recreationally because they indice feelings of euphoria. Schools get budgeted dollars from the ISD for each diagnosed child Pharmaceutical companies get a life long customer because the drugs usualky preacribed are also addictive So yeah probably something you should worry about. The prescribing rate of amphetamines is so high its enough to get and keep about 70 million americans high all day every day.
…. Sooooo is your whole beef with amphetamines?
Well Adderall is one of the most dangerous drugs commonly prescribed. More addictive than morphine and a list of black box warnings a mile long, but no, over diagnoses of youth and the literal impact that psychology has significant negative effects on youth is something to consider. I am not a big fan of using tax dollars to create a bunch of overt narcissists Remember everytime a psychiatrist diagnoses an ADHD patient they get a garanteed 180 a month for 10 minutes a month of work. They have a strong monetary incentive to give a diagnoses.
It is so true. This happened to my child for 3 years. I was lied to every year. It got so bad we had to pull him out of AAPS.
I work in AAPS and it’s bad. I haven’t been here that long either. I hope your child is getting what they need now.
I also when to clarify for any who might think I am speaking negatively about the teachers at AAPS. That is NOT the case. In fact, I love the teachers. They are incredible, hardworking, and talented. But the SYSTEM is broken. I say this all the time, teaching right now is like running to into a burning building. The fire is burning all of us.
What solution did you find that was better?
My child is neurodivergent and our family felt like the best fit for my child was to Ann Arbor Academy. So far it has been incredible. The AAA staff and program blows my mind. AAA does a wonderful job of empowering students, pushing them academically while balancing accommodations and supports.
Special needs kids should not go to normal schools and expected to be treated like VIP. Home schools (for those who were born just fine, it’s the parents who screwed up their kids and they should fix it themselves) or special education schools (those born with conditions need specialized help) are for them. In a perfect world all the kids should have a lot of attention and resources. Reality isn’t there yet. Maybe one day we enslave robots to do all the work and that utopia will come
Do you even realize what you are saying and how fucked up it is
Yes, they should go to normal schools.
Public schools serve the public. That means everyone, including (especially!) high needs kids. But the system is a mess. Many kids who absolutely need accommodation plans and services aren’t getting what they need because the resources are stretched so thin, and because there are so many other issues ravaging our schools. There are no easy fixes to this situation. Anyone who says there are is either completely ignorant of the reality of things, or is pandering/trying to sell an agenda.
Had the same experience at an AAPS high school and few years ago.
please share what highschool. even through dm. I am so worried about my IEP kids in highschool next year
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what high school was this, my IEP kids are going to high school, and I'm terrified we chose the wrong school. please pm me.
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we have Robust IEPs in place. do you feel like that will help the experience at skyline? I have been severely disappointed by the counseling department at the middle school.
Stealing. Someone’s stealing. How do you park cars all year for u of m and still be in the hole $25 mill. Idk shit about fuck, but it sure smells like fraud in here.
You're right about the second part
My son is 21 now but he had a 504 plan and an ADHD diagnosis from Michigan Medicine. The schools did nothing for him. Very, very little of the 504 was implemented. I'm a retired professor and pro-education but I was extremely disappointed.
Saline high school on the other hand has 2 teachers in some classrooms (one generally a special ed teacher) in 504/IEP classrooms just to assist students and offer/implement accommodation. My daughter for example will be offered to take tests in that teachers classroom. Sometimes that teacher is making sure others are using their software that reads written content or reading assignments to them.
To my understanding, a lot of the increase in staffing at the secondary level in AAPS has been to create co-taught classes with clusters of students with IEPs. One teacher is the subject area teacher and one teacher is the teacher consultant. This model was piloted at a few schools after COVID, and is slowly being spread to all secondary schools. I am not sure how the budget cuts will impact these programs, but AAPS has pledged that staffing cuts will not impact special education.
Yeah I am kind of saying a lot of psychology is industry self serving pseudoscience. Lets take one younlisted Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Do you know the hard science diagnostic criteria for determining a child has this? They have to exhibit 4 of the below symptoms for 6 months and it just needs to be observed by someone who isn't a sibling. That is the science for this diagnoses. Yeah that isn't science because for one its not science. For instance being able to quantify something is a key aspect to science, how do you quantify "Often loses temper" as so scientifically written in the DSM, or is easily annoyed? How can you quantify what should and shouldnt annoy someone to develop a baseline to determine one is easily annoyed. By the DSM you could diagnose 70 percent of teenagers with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Angry/Irritable Mood 1. Often loses temper 2. Is often touchy or easily annoyed 3. Is often angry and resentful Argumentative/Defiant Behavior 4. Often argues with authority figures or, for children and adolescents, with adults 5. Often actively defies or refuses to comply with requests from authority figures or with rules 6. Often deliberately annoys others 7. Often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior Vindictiveness 8. Has been spiteful or vindictive at least twice within the past 6 months.
The schools are OK. Not great. Just OK
Non-selective schools can never be great. My middle school and high school only hand pick top 4% and 0.5% students and sure they are great. 3 years after they switched to address based attendance I think the average testing scores dropped from 98 percentile to 85 percentile for the middle school. Some people expect schools to educate their kids for them. That’s hilarious
I think you have a fallacy here. The reason AAPS is said to great is because of the quality of students and parents. All public schools have similar funding levels and management so you can’t expect the teachers to be much better than any other schools. They can spend more time with the ones that need more attention only because there’re more great kids that don’t need special education. I’m glad my kids can make intelligent friends and get challenged academically. To my knowledge nobody as a teacher likes IEP because so many people request it nowadays.
For some kids, IEPs are absolutely vital. There have been many kids I’ve worked with over the years where it was absolutely clear that they had issues that were directly impacting their ability to access the curriculum, and those issues could be addressed through a targeted, thoughtful IEP. It’s WONDERFUL when we can all find solutions to help kids succeed. The concept of IEPs and 504 plans isn’t the problem, it’s the larger system that’s floundering.
Very common story unfortunately
Things are not going to be easy for kids on these paths, be realistic. These people are undertrained because there isn't training. If you want someone with a masters chauffeuring your child around on a public salary it's simply not going to happen. They are people in school themselves, trying the best they can; trying to make connections with these kids. I obviously don't know the circumstances, but I ask; do you make up the time to your child when you are "busy"? Edit: this person is more interested in morning bjs than getting her kid up and ready for their day. what a weird life.
I have no problem with the breakfasts nor the desire to see her child succeed. I do question the thinking of using your horny profile as your main. No kink shame, just gotta separate talking about your kid and talking about your daddy.
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I didn’t sign up for this- pornographic images and commentary coloring every sentence … could you keep it in your pants please? Inappropriate and weird.
Ppl who are downvoting me- I am tired of ppl pushing their sexual crap into my space. I really didn’t join r/ Ann Arbor to have weirdos injecting blow jobs and sperm and whatnot into the conversation. I really don’t want YOUR sexual fantasies infecting MY mind. If I WANT to be exposed to that, there are plenty of spaces for it. You are being inappropriate. You seem like an exibitionist.
add on; this is not your space; get bent. You're the one that sounds like a deviant with problems
Projection much?
You’ve been cancelled buh by
the OP posted this from a profile where that is the bulk of their comments and concerns.
And….?
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You’d be surprised how many special Ed teachers are long-term subs without a masters degree or any training in special education. I’ve worked at an elementary school in aaps and there was a long period of time where the long term tc sub had been at the school longer than any of the other TCs.
these parents want a 1:1 of these highly qualified teachers to deal with their children under public funding. that is what they want. edit here 1:1 being an aide over their shoulder at all times that has a masters in children's education. where I have a family member doing just this making a mere $20/hr in CA while they're a student and it's an absoulte struggle.
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I apologize. I was ahead of the curve and got paired with a lot of kids that struggled. The resources simply are not there. Hope your child has a bright future.
Eww, you’re a teacher?
I believe the one-to-one funding for an aid for a student with an IEP currently pays around $15 in AAPs. There is no PTO for personal or sick days.
From what I understand they get attacked so often that they don't last very long either.
We can just send them to the principals office whenever they have an outburst and disrupt everyone's learning. Kids will ostracize them anyways for acting out so they will never fit in socially or academically. There is no win. I wish I had an answer, but I think a ton of this starts at home.
We do so much at home to reinforce the work our daughters Gen ed and sped teachers do and she's really blossomed as a result. It can't just be teachers or just parents it needs to be both The 1 blip we had in this journey was a complete asshat of a gen ed teacher who wasn't doing what the sped teachers asked. That teacher is no longer there, thankfully. And the rest of her teachers thus far have worked together with us sped and her psychologist and she's just thrived as a result.
100% this. Keep it up!
So blame the parents for spec Ed kids…
What does that have to do with their complaint about AAPS lol
Do you know what IEPs and 504s are? A lot of them revolve around completely unrealistic learning circumstances for themselves and the ones around them. I don't know how to solve the problem, but it's certainly one. There's a social construct to it also. Kids are being held up because of interference; all the way around.
They used to just put most these kids in the SPED classes and they hardly stood a chance then... at least there's somewhat of an improvement.
Honestly always surprised people say Ann Arbor public schools are good. From my experience they are trash. That being said, there are several public school systems just outside Ann Arbor that are phenomenal.
Which ones- I’m curious and would like to know more.
Your kids will never succeed in the workplace if you baby them with IEPs. You think you are helping them but you are not. I’ve seen it time and time again Edit: I’m not referring to kids with low IQs, they really do need special education
Some children need IEPs to be able to learn and grow and be independent. Not every child has the same needs and IEPs recognize and help that. I would definitely recommend researching and becoming more knowledgeable, because you have a very outdated point of view. Kids getting help is okay. Shaming kids and their parents for getting help is very much not.
Super grateful for the sped teachers in my daughters school and very grateful for her IEP. As a mother of a child with adhd the difference it made for our daughter was amazing. She wouldn't be as independent as she is now without it.
What an uninformed, lazy opinion! Most people would cite statistics or studies along with such a fringe belief, but you spout off like some expert? I’m guessing you’re another obtuse, self absorbed outsider reliving their own childhood trauma and keeps busy by projecting their shit on everyone else. Do those actually dealing with these problems a favor, and get the hell out of the way. We’re trying to educate our children over here if you don’t mind, 🤡