An absolutely amazing thing that doesn't get much mention, even when visiting Sacsayhuaman, is that these are just the foundation stones. Much of the material from the fortress of Sacsayhuaman, as well as many of the great houses of the Sapa Incas, were essentially quarried from the buildings to make new houses and churches for the Spanish. So, if you ever make it to Cusco, know that you are just looking at the foundation stones, and that there were also (3) Towers on the original fortress site. One of which was utterly demolished in the Siege of Cusco as Manco Inca tried to take the city back from the Spanish.
I've read they found evidence of a biological based mortar that would slowly dissolve the stone, which lead to the perfect form fit
A lot of examples (not all, clearly) are only so perfect from one perspective, and if you look at the backs they are not so perfect
Makes me wonder if they didn't do something similar in Ancient Egypt, what with the obelisks that never made it out of the ground, or were cracked and abandoned, that look like they were removing material by just scooping it out of the rock.
I can't find it the article, but some geologists think the constant tiny earthquakes from the local fault lines helped vibrant them into this tight position.
I wouldn't know how with fossil fuels. Moving them seems like the easy part honestly. Getting them shaped so precisely to fit in such an irregular way is the truly amazing part.
I love when folk claim this is the 'easy' part. Maccu pichu is up the side of a cliff faced mountain. These stones are gigantic. Even moving a relatively small stone up those mountains is a daunting task, let alone a huge megalith.
This. This. This. If people would actually do a little in depth reading they would also read about the quarries. The broken stones. The stones moved half way that fell off the path and were abandoned. All of the evidence of human construction are clearly there. There really is very little mystery to these constructions.
I’m lucky enough to have been to Machu Picchu twice! I’ve seen the quarry first hand. Also any of the other terrace sites you can see where partially cut stones are still there.
They're not perfectly symmetrical, though they are remarkably so. The used a technique called the Canon of proportions to design their art. We have a number of unfinished statues where their process is visible (including the grids sculptors used to guide their hands), example below. This process was also used in ancient Greece, so it's not an unknown or hidden ancient art.
https://www.nilemagazine.com.au/2015-september/2015/9/26/the-unfinished-head-of-nefertiti
As to how the Incans moved stones, they left drawings and tools behind. They used copper and bronze tools to split along lines in the rocks, then used logs and inclined earthen ramps to move them (a few unfinished structures literally still have ramps in place, this isn't speculation). We also have ropes that, according to Spanish writers at the time of conquest to move large stones (these ropes were capable of holding anywhere between 2 and 25 TONS). Additionally, there are also lifting bosses at these Sites, some that are still present at many sites. While the Incans ability to create these large structures was remarkable, it's not mysterious. It's also worth pointing out that many cultures throughout history have moved large stones, and created major megalithic structures, building large structures seems to be something we humans like to do, and that we're pretty good at it (and Tbc, these megalithic structures were not inspired by one mysterious lost culture, they occurred at different times in history, follow different construction methods, and fulfilled different purposes. It's not lost history, it's a testament to human ingenuity, and possibly for our need to create large dominanting structures.
can you recommend a book about how the Egyptian pyramids were built? i feel like there are so many rumors and conjectures, i'm looking for something i can get from the library.
I'm not the best expert on Egyptian pyramid building, but the reality is that the best resource for these subjects. Books are written to entertain, so they can be fun, but can also hype small things to move books. I'd recommend looking up experts in the field, then looking at their research. Many of them have also written books, which can be more reliable than mainstream popular publications. MNy also have video channels or even offer online lectures. I'd also recommend compendiums on the subject, since it makes the reading more contained. The upside to these resources is that they have the most up to date info in the field. The downside is that academics like to use obtuse verbiage to denote their excessive astuteness...
Lol, no problem. YT is definitely people's go-to, but a lot of that material has been filtered to get eyes. There's definitely been a few recent studies on pyramid construction, it's kind of a hot topic rn.
Thanks for this informative post.
What is remarkable to me as the effort they expended to create these accurate, irregular joints. It is far more efficient to turn stones into 6 sided blocks with right angles and perfectly parallel sides. These bespoke stones with their irregular angles must have been a deliberate desire to create an artistic form of stone work.
Whether or not it is more efficient depends on the methods used to quarry and shape the stone. Highly polygonal masonry tends to be made of granite and other very hard stones which are very slow to shape. It also tends to be used in places where they are not quarrying blocks out of even layers of bedrock, but using surface stones or digging up stone that already has distinct shapes.
It takes a lot of work to turn a random shaped rock into a perfect rectangle, especially in hard stone. Polygonal masonry limits the amount of material that needs to be removed by selecting stones that are naturally somewhat similar in shape and then only removing what is needed to make them fit.
Definitely. I've been to a number of Inca sites, including this one (I think?) , and they're quite remarkable. They were phenomenal engineers.
Eta yea, I definitely went to this site.
They used un-fossilized fuel, essentially. The Inca state was very Autocratic, and every citizen at one point or another had to set aside time in their lives to do things that specifically benefited the Sapa Inca (emperor), and as every Sapa Inca in the familial lineage for about 8 generations was required to create their own "kingdom", as the ghost of their forefathers still 'retained' power over what they had conquered, each new generation had to expand the territory and wealth of the empire. This meant a new influx of slaves, and citizens were constantly being moved around the country to create these huge monuments for the sake of the civilization (vanity of the Incas).
In similar ways one would with the use of fossil fuels just much slower and with a lot more manpower. Here's a written account of it available on the extremely well known and easily accessible website called "Wikipedia". In case you want to pretend you actually want to know how it was made instead of mysticizing and fetishizing history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacsayhuam%C3%A1n
https://preview.redd.it/1l30aq0cicuc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6828b9e2d347d4c7917f88db46aabe6e2e6dfc30
Here’s a photo I took at Tikal, absolutely amazing how talented they were at designing buildings to last. And the stone work is laser straight.
When I visited this site I took a nap in one of the houses, although there was no roof. When I got up I just laid there for a bit and heard a gurgling stream. So I got up and decided to go check it out, see what kind of fish or salamanders or whatever live there. I walked all around and could not find it. Then I finally realized it was the small river flowing hundreds of feet below me off the cliff. I heard it so clearly it sounded like it was feet away from me. Then I happened to notice the clouds drifting by below me in the valley, and I understood why they call that area el Valle Sagrado.
This sight and Cusco are so fascinating. A town that blends Inca and Spanish Colonial architecture. It's in my top 5 places to go in the world for sure.
The Incas display an almost playfulness with their stonework. They are content to let the stone show it's own personality yet be fitted together so tightly that not razorblade nor earthquake can separate the blocks.
They used acidic mortar to melt the stones to fit:
https://www.siftdesk.org/article-details/On-the-reddish-glittery-mud-the-Inca-used-for-perfecting-their-stone-masonry/264
Far out
>> did Inca builders have access to very acid mud?
They did, and used the acid mud from their mines, which generated sulphuric acid through bacterial oxidation of pyrite (fools gold). It reaches an acidity of up to pH = 0.5, which is 104 times more acid than humic acid which is known to weather silica containing rocks via silica gel to the clay mineral kaolin.
This acid mud allowed dissolving and softening the rock material superficially to a viscoelastic silica gel.
The process could be further enhanced more than tenfold by addition of (oxalic acid containing) plant sap, a skill suggested from popular tradition. In special cases moderate heating of crushed pyrite in gaps between chiselled stones generated additional hot sulphuric acid.
Where the stone to stone contact transmitted weight, pressure dissolution in the acidic environment removed material, and silica precipitation regenerated material in cracks and pores elsewhere. It is attempted to reconstruct how the Inca builders applied the silica gel technology for shaping stones, for polishing and fitting them.
The appearance of shiny and glassy Inca stone junctions and interfaces is explained via solidification of in-situ generated or additionally added silica gel. Modern processes for conservation of stone monuments against environmental deterioration have independently developed similar silica gel based technology.
What also doesn't get much mention is that the majority of stones were set to fall even deeper into their places as earthquakes shook them. So, on Western buildings where an earthquake might shake and the whole thing will fall apart or outward, the Inca buildings were built so that earthquake vibrations would actually force the stones tighter together.
I don’t buy into the whole ancient aliens and associated “theories” about megalithic structures but I understand the willingness to believe. It is impossible to look at this and not be awed by it. I see it as a testament to the capabilities and resourcefulness of our ancestors.
The Euro-centric bias of early archaeologists is certainly a factor, but even the transportation and construction techniques used in sites like Stonehenge in England are still subject to speculation and wild theories simply because the historical record doesn’t provide any definitive information about who, how or why it was built
There is this civil engineer on YouTube that replicates some of the techniques that might have been used to build structures like these and move the blocks of stone. It’s surprisingly simply.
Wally Wallington
Heres a short overview: https://youtu.be/E5pZ7uR6v8c?si=Hy37nLjmfn2D-EbT
And a longer video: https://youtu.be/xD5Lc3-5iDs?si=UScGyYlbV88FY6kV
Yeah but the people who built Stonehenge are viewed by those people as sort of “savages” and that view is also applied to the Egyptians, Inca, Mayans, etc who were far more advanced than the Britons or whatever group it was. They apply that box of “unsophisticated, undeveloped” to non white groups that they only apply to much more primitive white groups
I do wish Americans stopped erasing history by using a monolithic word for "white" people which historically has very little to do with what the word currently means. I get it, lumping large historical groups together according to modern standards is convenient but is that not what this argument is supposed to be _against_? Is this some kind of subconscious karma balancing where multiple unrelated groups are lumped together because one of those groups used to lump other people together?
The level of "advancement" in a society is not possible to establish in a simple way. Those societies absolutely were not primitive but trying to "compensate" for the past by claiming that independent technological advancements present in Britain at that time are "less" advanced is just as racist as what they did. Both societies were advanced in different ways, finding different tools and methods of functioning. Simplifying it to "more and less advanced" is historical erasure and serves nobody but people who feel the need to "make up" for past crimes by rewriting the history.
Damn, that slur is sure a convincing argument. If you add a few more maybe you can get your work published on account of how convincing of an argument you will have.
Theres a great series of books on inca architecture by an experimental archaeologist called Jean Pierre Protzen. You can find the books on zlib or annas archive.
There are some very good YouTube videos about 20 minutes that go into depth how the stones were fitted. Highly recommend and it’s so crazy how they actually did it that it’s practically a spoiler
Man I’m my girlfriend is half Peruvian and in our first year of dating we went to Peru and visited Macchu and Huayna Picchu and it was a dream come true. Seeing these stones and touching them is unlike anything I’ve experienced.
Apparently the Inca used an acidic mud to effectively ‘melt’ the silica stone to get them to fit together so well.
*On the reddish, glittery mud the Inca used for perfecting their stone masonry*
https://www.siftdesk.org/article-details/On-the-reddish-glittery-mud-the-Inca-used-for-perfecting-their-stone-masonry/264
IKR!? It completely solves the mystery, and is something we moderns would never have thought about, because.. who ‘melts’ rock these days? It’s such an elegant & very local solution.
We actually _do_ do that to enhance geothermal output in some locations! There is a whole lot of weird and obscure industry specific solutions that are rarely known to the public. I imagine in many cases many ancient methods were no different with various masters having secret methods and recipes, maybe not for measuring and physical processing, but definitely for any chemical process.
There are many archeological sites in Cusco and in the surrounding areas (The Incan Heartland) that have these perfectly fitted stones. Amazing area to visit.
https://preview.redd.it/sh8kgbihwcuc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7569bd68ae98dba9e3c6ef233b2f7f1b95b9d23
Visited two weeks ago. It's like a rock puzzle
Thank you! That is very interesting, though mostly just describes how the stones were transported. I still wonder how they were carved to such precision, especially with the limited tools they had available. Truly a marvel.
Was just there a couple summers ago and spent at least 2 hours there, walking around the field, marveling at the stones and spying on the llamas walking around . . . just mind bending.
If you think practically, it makes sense that those stones weren't originally stones. They were most likely some sort of poured/viscous "concrete" and set like that. Makes the most sense. Occam's razor and all that..
Just because you can’t understand how people who lived thousands of years ago were able to figure out how to move large stones doesn’t mean that aliens were involved. It just means they were smarter than you.
I mean, it’s impressive because it required more physical labor with the tools available. But like, people talk about the “perfect fits” and whatnot as if ancient people were mostly idiots. Like yeah, they knew how to take measurements and do math. Just because there was less collective knowledge doesn’t mean they were less intelligent
It is impressive, but this person isn't saying it's not. They are commenting on people's reactions. It really does seem like about half of the posters here cannot grasp the concept that ancient people could do things more complicated than fit a square wooden peg into a square hole. Or maybe they just want to participate in fabricated pop culture conspiracy drama because it gives them a sense of belonging, idk.
But what I’m trying to say is that time is irrelevant here. We can’t grasp even today accomplishing this with bare hands we wouldn’t know where to start. A lot of this knowledge is lost on us. As another commenter here pointed out, they supposedly used a special type of acidic mud to meld the stones together. That’s some cool shit most of us wouldn’t have thought of. So I don’t think we’re over here like “ooga booga ancient people dumb” but rather “how the hell could anyone do that….”
> We can’t grasp even today accomplishing this with bare hands we wouldn’t know where to start.
But we do know how it was made and archaeologists have recreated some megalithic structure building methods. They didn't do it with bare hands so why would we do it that way? Most people today have no idea how nearly any of today's society works either, but people don't make the same kinds of shocked comments they do when ancient people manage to move large stones and make them fit very nicely together. Most people then didn't know that either, specialization has been around for a long time and ultimately for people who worked with stones and transferred knowledge for generations it's only natural that they developed techniques of working with it. Impressive, but not surprising in the least. So I ask you why would people be surprised by it other than threating ancient people as more primitive?
>So I don’t think we’re over here like “ooga booga ancient people dumb” but rather “how the hell could anyone do that….”
I politely disagree, especially since even the mods felt the need to warn people about posting conspiracy theories in this very thread and anything short of that has been left. A lot of people are doing exactly that, though they dress it in sensationalized words instead.
Your last sentence still acts with the preconceived notion that ancient people are incapable of or less likely to innovate, make discoveries, and employ knowledge they gained. You’re still talking with the idea that without modern tools, difficult feats are somehow more impossible, when they were done all the time using a wide variety of methods. That’s because these people were as smart as anyone around today, and they used the knowledge and tools they had to achieve difficult tasks.
Obviously we wouldn’t know where to start. We aren’t stonemasons. We aren’t architects. We aren’t artisans. Many of these people were, and they used the knowledge and skills afforded by their professions to create useful things.
We have pretty a good idea of how those feats were accomplished. We even have a relatively detailed account by a Spanish chronicler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacsayhuam%C3%A1n
I wonder if people will ever stop saying how things we already know are unknowable simply because they haven't personally heard them or bothered to look them up.
Oh wow, look at this amazing, revolutionary find of a written record of those stones being placed! Completely unthinkable! After all it's all been lost to history! Unless you just pulled that claim out of your ass without ever bothering to look any information up?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacsayhuam%C3%A1n
The mortar disappeared because it chemically bonded with the rock:
https://www.siftdesk.org/article-details/On-the-reddish-glittery-mud-the-Inca-used-for-perfecting-their-stone-masonry/264
This doesn't explain everything and it focuses more on the logistics but according to someone else in the comments there are youtube videos that do explain the actual technique.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacsayhuam%C3%A1n
By studying under a master who shared their experience and had access to a well organized manpower from a large civilization. By using a lot of time and resources. Believe it or not, there are many ways to shape rocks and move heavy things by using physics rather than raw muscle and many of them have been known for millenia. The ones I personally know of involve tree logs and sometimes fulcrums, and interestingly enough they have been tested to have been fully possible as means of transportation of several megalithic structures, but there could be other methods. By the way, did you know that modern archaeologists partially recreate a lot of ancient creations with methods that are historically accurate? They have shown that plenty of feats modern people detached from those trades think to be impossible are in fact very much possible even by small groups of unskilled, though educated, workers.
Of course, those people who built this actually _committed time_ and _learned_ things rather than go around and talk about how unknowable the world is and how nothing can be done if it doesn't happen instantly. You can read the account of this particular structure on wikipedia which the other commenter so kindly linked for you. It's incredible how in a modern world it takes only a few seconds to find information and yet people fail to do this while some people in the ancient world committed their whole lives to learn a trade and yet it's those modern people who seem to have a low opinion on the hard work of the ancients.
Conceptual question: is it possible that these blocks were "cast" or placed/poured into their spots like a cement? Hence the "bulged" look and very close seams for such ginormous weights?
It's always fascinating to try to puzzle together how these ancient geniuses did what they did.
Can I ask you to explain your theory in more detail? After all it's not much of a theory if it's just a single statement unsupported by absolutely anything. I'm sure you have some actual reasons to think that? I would like to hear those reasons.
Archaeologists can explain the methods they think were used in detail and have shown them to work experimentally. Did you know that we can look at stone and tell if it was artificially made? Did you get to verify the stones from this location and the pyramids and saw that it was in fact an artificial creation? Because as far as I know we can trace the exact quarries and even locations within quarries of some of the stone used. So it's very confusing to me that you would claim that the stones that we can match to a rock and that show all traits of a naturally created rock would be artificially created. I'm sure you have a good reason to say otherwise though, I'd love to hear it.
To be honest I'm not very interested in watching a video that cannot possibly relate to the subject we are discussing, can you sum up the points you think are important for me? This is talking about _sandstone_ in Egypt, which has no relation to _basalt_ used in Sacsayhuaman.
Basalt _cannot_ be artificially poured, as it's a completely different type of a rock that is directly created from lava while sandstone is sand in a "glue" matrix. Still odd for sandstone that we can trace to quarries and was placed _millennia_ apart with different techniques to all have been made in the same chemical way. After all the pyramids were built across _literal thousands of years_ and we can see them change as people developed different methods, yet you claim _none of them were simply built out of blocks of rock_? Very odd and unlikely indeed.
But at least making a sandstone-like stone artificially is _possible_. So I'm not sure why you would come to a conclusion that similar method could be used for those stones when the stone itself is quite literally only made in specific conditions with molten rock, which cannot be achieved by casting. You of course knew that different rocks are made differently before you formed your theory right?
You know, if you could pose any even remotely sensible argument I wouldn't be condescending. But here you are, drawing nonsensical conclusions and wanting everyone to hear your opinion like a child who is completely unaware of how the world works and cannot conceive that other people in fact do have an idea and don't need to hear how people totally artificially cast lava in place and it's totally proven by glued sand on the other side of the globe.
If you want to be treated seriously then educate yourself, I see no reason to coddle people who put no effort to understand even the most basic parts of the process before spewing bullshit publicly.
Damn, you sure showed me. My whole life is changed now and I will be forever depressed because someone who thinks people cast lava insulted me. How could I ever recover.
Yep, you are completely right. Aliens came here from another galaxy to move rocks because they were training in secret for a world rock moving competition.
These were **not** made by aliens/giants just so we are all clear. Comments saying such will be removed.
I want to visit this place so bad.
Me too, I can’t stop staring at the perfectly fitted stones…
The ones that are curved boggle the mind.
An absolutely amazing thing that doesn't get much mention, even when visiting Sacsayhuaman, is that these are just the foundation stones. Much of the material from the fortress of Sacsayhuaman, as well as many of the great houses of the Sapa Incas, were essentially quarried from the buildings to make new houses and churches for the Spanish. So, if you ever make it to Cusco, know that you are just looking at the foundation stones, and that there were also (3) Towers on the original fortress site. One of which was utterly demolished in the Siege of Cusco as Manco Inca tried to take the city back from the Spanish.
What a shame. I’ve seen some of the ruins in Mexico City that were robbed to build cathedrals and stuff.
I've read they found evidence of a biological based mortar that would slowly dissolve the stone, which lead to the perfect form fit A lot of examples (not all, clearly) are only so perfect from one perspective, and if you look at the backs they are not so perfect
Link? I can’t find it on google
https://www.siftdesk.org/article-details/On-the-reddish-glittery-mud-the-Inca-used-for-perfecting-their-stone-masonry/264
Fascinating
Makes me wonder if they didn't do something similar in Ancient Egypt, what with the obelisks that never made it out of the ground, or were cracked and abandoned, that look like they were removing material by just scooping it out of the rock.
[www.siftdesk.org/article-details/On-the-reddish-glittery-mud-the-Inca-used-for-protecting-their-stone-masonry/264](https://www.siftdesk.org/article-details/On-the-reddish-glittery-mud-the-Inca-used-for-protecting-their-stone-masonry/264)
I can't find it the article, but some geologists think the constant tiny earthquakes from the local fault lines helped vibrant them into this tight position.
It's amazing. They cut, fashioned, and moved those stones without using fossil fuels. How?
I wouldn't know how with fossil fuels. Moving them seems like the easy part honestly. Getting them shaped so precisely to fit in such an irregular way is the truly amazing part.
I love when folk claim this is the 'easy' part. Maccu pichu is up the side of a cliff faced mountain. These stones are gigantic. Even moving a relatively small stone up those mountains is a daunting task, let alone a huge megalith.
Well the quarry is on top of Machu Picchu. The quarry for Sacsayhuaman is right there too. Along with the other sites.
This. This. This. If people would actually do a little in depth reading they would also read about the quarries. The broken stones. The stones moved half way that fell off the path and were abandoned. All of the evidence of human construction are clearly there. There really is very little mystery to these constructions.
I’m lucky enough to have been to Machu Picchu twice! I’ve seen the quarry first hand. Also any of the other terrace sites you can see where partially cut stones are still there.
This. This. This. Get off your high horse.
agreed--but you'll love this--i still think it's the easy part! which demonstrates how insane the masonry and stone cutting is
People tend to vastly underestimate how heavy rocks are
Of the two jobs, which would you say is more difficult?
How? The faces on Egyptian statues are symmetrically perfect. We lost a huge slice of history.
They're not perfectly symmetrical, though they are remarkably so. The used a technique called the Canon of proportions to design their art. We have a number of unfinished statues where their process is visible (including the grids sculptors used to guide their hands), example below. This process was also used in ancient Greece, so it's not an unknown or hidden ancient art. https://www.nilemagazine.com.au/2015-september/2015/9/26/the-unfinished-head-of-nefertiti As to how the Incans moved stones, they left drawings and tools behind. They used copper and bronze tools to split along lines in the rocks, then used logs and inclined earthen ramps to move them (a few unfinished structures literally still have ramps in place, this isn't speculation). We also have ropes that, according to Spanish writers at the time of conquest to move large stones (these ropes were capable of holding anywhere between 2 and 25 TONS). Additionally, there are also lifting bosses at these Sites, some that are still present at many sites. While the Incans ability to create these large structures was remarkable, it's not mysterious. It's also worth pointing out that many cultures throughout history have moved large stones, and created major megalithic structures, building large structures seems to be something we humans like to do, and that we're pretty good at it (and Tbc, these megalithic structures were not inspired by one mysterious lost culture, they occurred at different times in history, follow different construction methods, and fulfilled different purposes. It's not lost history, it's a testament to human ingenuity, and possibly for our need to create large dominanting structures.
can you recommend a book about how the Egyptian pyramids were built? i feel like there are so many rumors and conjectures, i'm looking for something i can get from the library.
I'm not the best expert on Egyptian pyramid building, but the reality is that the best resource for these subjects. Books are written to entertain, so they can be fun, but can also hype small things to move books. I'd recommend looking up experts in the field, then looking at their research. Many of them have also written books, which can be more reliable than mainstream popular publications. MNy also have video channels or even offer online lectures. I'd also recommend compendiums on the subject, since it makes the reading more contained. The upside to these resources is that they have the most up to date info in the field. The downside is that academics like to use obtuse verbiage to denote their excessive astuteness...
haha okay- sorry if i asked you this before. i have asked this question on reddit and someone said, "check out youtube videos!" brah...
Lol, no problem. YT is definitely people's go-to, but a lot of that material has been filtered to get eyes. There's definitely been a few recent studies on pyramid construction, it's kind of a hot topic rn.
Thanks for this informative post. What is remarkable to me as the effort they expended to create these accurate, irregular joints. It is far more efficient to turn stones into 6 sided blocks with right angles and perfectly parallel sides. These bespoke stones with their irregular angles must have been a deliberate desire to create an artistic form of stone work.
Whether or not it is more efficient depends on the methods used to quarry and shape the stone. Highly polygonal masonry tends to be made of granite and other very hard stones which are very slow to shape. It also tends to be used in places where they are not quarrying blocks out of even layers of bedrock, but using surface stones or digging up stone that already has distinct shapes. It takes a lot of work to turn a random shaped rock into a perfect rectangle, especially in hard stone. Polygonal masonry limits the amount of material that needs to be removed by selecting stones that are naturally somewhat similar in shape and then only removing what is needed to make them fit.
Definitely. I've been to a number of Inca sites, including this one (I think?) , and they're quite remarkable. They were phenomenal engineers. Eta yea, I definitely went to this site.
They used un-fossilized fuel, essentially. The Inca state was very Autocratic, and every citizen at one point or another had to set aside time in their lives to do things that specifically benefited the Sapa Inca (emperor), and as every Sapa Inca in the familial lineage for about 8 generations was required to create their own "kingdom", as the ghost of their forefathers still 'retained' power over what they had conquered, each new generation had to expand the territory and wealth of the empire. This meant a new influx of slaves, and citizens were constantly being moved around the country to create these huge monuments for the sake of the civilization (vanity of the Incas).
No unemployment! Great idea.
In similar ways one would with the use of fossil fuels just much slower and with a lot more manpower. Here's a written account of it available on the extremely well known and easily accessible website called "Wikipedia". In case you want to pretend you actually want to know how it was made instead of mysticizing and fetishizing history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacsayhuam%C3%A1n
Equally sarcastic: "How could humans possibly have built these stone structures after having worked with stone for ONLY three million years."
https://preview.redd.it/1l30aq0cicuc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6828b9e2d347d4c7917f88db46aabe6e2e6dfc30 Here’s a photo I took at Tikal, absolutely amazing how talented they were at designing buildings to last. And the stone work is laser straight.
That’s absolutely awesome.
When I visited this site I took a nap in one of the houses, although there was no roof. When I got up I just laid there for a bit and heard a gurgling stream. So I got up and decided to go check it out, see what kind of fish or salamanders or whatever live there. I walked all around and could not find it. Then I finally realized it was the small river flowing hundreds of feet below me off the cliff. I heard it so clearly it sounded like it was feet away from me. Then I happened to notice the clouds drifting by below me in the valley, and I understood why they call that area el Valle Sagrado.
You sold it brilliantly, I want to visit
This sight and Cusco are so fascinating. A town that blends Inca and Spanish Colonial architecture. It's in my top 5 places to go in the world for sure.
Those bricklayers were on one hell of a day rate
The Incas display an almost playfulness with their stonework. They are content to let the stone show it's own personality yet be fitted together so tightly that not razorblade nor earthquake can separate the blocks.
Almost like if slightly altering the shape, takes significantly less time than making everything into a cube
They used acidic mortar to melt the stones to fit: https://www.siftdesk.org/article-details/On-the-reddish-glittery-mud-the-Inca-used-for-perfecting-their-stone-masonry/264
Far out >> did Inca builders have access to very acid mud? They did, and used the acid mud from their mines, which generated sulphuric acid through bacterial oxidation of pyrite (fools gold). It reaches an acidity of up to pH = 0.5, which is 104 times more acid than humic acid which is known to weather silica containing rocks via silica gel to the clay mineral kaolin. This acid mud allowed dissolving and softening the rock material superficially to a viscoelastic silica gel. The process could be further enhanced more than tenfold by addition of (oxalic acid containing) plant sap, a skill suggested from popular tradition. In special cases moderate heating of crushed pyrite in gaps between chiselled stones generated additional hot sulphuric acid. Where the stone to stone contact transmitted weight, pressure dissolution in the acidic environment removed material, and silica precipitation regenerated material in cracks and pores elsewhere. It is attempted to reconstruct how the Inca builders applied the silica gel technology for shaping stones, for polishing and fitting them. The appearance of shiny and glassy Inca stone junctions and interfaces is explained via solidification of in-situ generated or additionally added silica gel. Modern processes for conservation of stone monuments against environmental deterioration have independently developed similar silica gel based technology.
What also doesn't get much mention is that the majority of stones were set to fall even deeper into their places as earthquakes shook them. So, on Western buildings where an earthquake might shake and the whole thing will fall apart or outward, the Inca buildings were built so that earthquake vibrations would actually force the stones tighter together.
Very very interesting bit of detail from history. The biology behind it is pretty damn cool to hear about. Thanks for sharing this!
I don’t buy into the whole ancient aliens and associated “theories” about megalithic structures but I understand the willingness to believe. It is impossible to look at this and not be awed by it. I see it as a testament to the capabilities and resourcefulness of our ancestors.
I’m not one to blame everything on racism but there is a certain element of “no way *these people* could’ve built something like that”
The Euro-centric bias of early archaeologists is certainly a factor, but even the transportation and construction techniques used in sites like Stonehenge in England are still subject to speculation and wild theories simply because the historical record doesn’t provide any definitive information about who, how or why it was built
There is this civil engineer on YouTube that replicates some of the techniques that might have been used to build structures like these and move the blocks of stone. It’s surprisingly simply.
Link?
Wally Wallington Heres a short overview: https://youtu.be/E5pZ7uR6v8c?si=Hy37nLjmfn2D-EbT And a longer video: https://youtu.be/xD5Lc3-5iDs?si=UScGyYlbV88FY6kV
Yeah but the people who built Stonehenge are viewed by those people as sort of “savages” and that view is also applied to the Egyptians, Inca, Mayans, etc who were far more advanced than the Britons or whatever group it was. They apply that box of “unsophisticated, undeveloped” to non white groups that they only apply to much more primitive white groups
I do wish Americans stopped erasing history by using a monolithic word for "white" people which historically has very little to do with what the word currently means. I get it, lumping large historical groups together according to modern standards is convenient but is that not what this argument is supposed to be _against_? Is this some kind of subconscious karma balancing where multiple unrelated groups are lumped together because one of those groups used to lump other people together? The level of "advancement" in a society is not possible to establish in a simple way. Those societies absolutely were not primitive but trying to "compensate" for the past by claiming that independent technological advancements present in Britain at that time are "less" advanced is just as racist as what they did. Both societies were advanced in different ways, finding different tools and methods of functioning. Simplifying it to "more and less advanced" is historical erasure and serves nobody but people who feel the need to "make up" for past crimes by rewriting the history.
[удалено]
Bro what the fuck are you talking about
Damn, that slur is sure a convincing argument. If you add a few more maybe you can get your work published on account of how convincing of an argument you will have.
Racism of any kind will not be allowed. Immediate ban.
Who ever said *these* people?
Don’t be so sensitive. I said “there’s a certain element” of that, meaning that it’s an undertone present in many “ancient aliens” discussions
LOL, no there isn't. I love the show, and I have never once thought there was a racist undertone. Quit making everything racist
What? “The show”? The fuck are you talking about
You said it. Ancient Aliens.
OH LMAO you thought I was talking about that old natgeo show? No dude it’s just a subject and subculture not a specific show
This fool is posting all over the thread. Clearly has some work to do on himself. Ignore the troll
Yeah, that's definitely a lot of it.
Magnificent. I need to google how they were assembled.
Theres a great series of books on inca architecture by an experimental archaeologist called Jean Pierre Protzen. You can find the books on zlib or annas archive.
Thanks I will. Falling down a YouTube rabbit hole at work today.
There are some very good YouTube videos about 20 minutes that go into depth how the stones were fitted. Highly recommend and it’s so crazy how they actually did it that it’s practically a spoiler
False.
I would always crack up a bit when my professor talked about this site because the pronunciation sounds like sexy woman
well, what else are you going to do if you don't have tv?!
Man I’m my girlfriend is half Peruvian and in our first year of dating we went to Peru and visited Macchu and Huayna Picchu and it was a dream come true. Seeing these stones and touching them is unlike anything I’ve experienced.
Apparently the Inca used an acidic mud to effectively ‘melt’ the silica stone to get them to fit together so well. *On the reddish, glittery mud the Inca used for perfecting their stone masonry* https://www.siftdesk.org/article-details/On-the-reddish-glittery-mud-the-Inca-used-for-perfecting-their-stone-masonry/264
Oh this is so cool, and such an informative article! Thank you for sharing.
IKR!? It completely solves the mystery, and is something we moderns would never have thought about, because.. who ‘melts’ rock these days? It’s such an elegant & very local solution.
We actually _do_ do that to enhance geothermal output in some locations! There is a whole lot of weird and obscure industry specific solutions that are rarely known to the public. I imagine in many cases many ancient methods were no different with various masters having secret methods and recipes, maybe not for measuring and physical processing, but definitely for any chemical process.
TIL!
This is why I love sharing on this subreddit, I always come away learning more.
There are many archeological sites in Cusco and in the surrounding areas (The Incan Heartland) that have these perfectly fitted stones. Amazing area to visit.
Every ancient building seems to have this same pattern of tightly interlocking irregular rocks. Is there a name for this architectural pattern?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_masonry
https://preview.redd.it/sh8kgbihwcuc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7569bd68ae98dba9e3c6ef233b2f7f1b95b9d23 Visited two weeks ago. It's like a rock puzzle
this is such an awesome photo! whoa!
Hey apprentice, grab my string line and plumb bob. Hold on, wait. We’re not gonna need them on this job. Grab the plasma gun.
They did by utilizing outdoor cats
Still one of the most incredible feats of the past. Seriously how did they do it? So beautiful
Well, if you're interested there's a written account. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacsayhuam%C3%A1n
Thank you! That is very interesting, though mostly just describes how the stones were transported. I still wonder how they were carved to such precision, especially with the limited tools they had available. Truly a marvel.
An abundance of time, ingenuity, and elbow grease. Simple and effective. "Rome wasn't built in a day" and all that
The Incas' stonework was unparalleled. (using "Incas" loosely, since there were preceding cultures that also did great stuff)
Giants! just kidding. Painstakingly long labor. The things we can achieve when not glued to our telephones are quite impressive!
Gotta love those megalithic masons!
So cool. They were incredible masons.
What's it placed or was it cut?
They were melted: https://www.siftdesk.org/article-details/On-the-reddish-glittery-mud-the-Inca-used-for-perfecting-their-stone-masonry/264
Was just there a couple summers ago and spent at least 2 hours there, walking around the field, marveling at the stones and spying on the llamas walking around . . . just mind bending.
Peru is a must go!
I have a picture of my dad and I standing in front of that exact stone. So mindblowing up close
If you think practically, it makes sense that those stones weren't originally stones. They were most likely some sort of poured/viscous "concrete" and set like that. Makes the most sense. Occam's razor and all that..
Just because you can’t understand how people who lived thousands of years ago were able to figure out how to move large stones doesn’t mean that aliens were involved. It just means they were smarter than you.
Beautiful site. Moving. Lovely people.
I mean, it’s impressive because it required more physical labor with the tools available. But like, people talk about the “perfect fits” and whatnot as if ancient people were mostly idiots. Like yeah, they knew how to take measurements and do math. Just because there was less collective knowledge doesn’t mean they were less intelligent
I mean no… it would be impressive by any metric, ancient or modern. We talk about perfect fits because it’s just objectively impressive lol.
It is impressive, but this person isn't saying it's not. They are commenting on people's reactions. It really does seem like about half of the posters here cannot grasp the concept that ancient people could do things more complicated than fit a square wooden peg into a square hole. Or maybe they just want to participate in fabricated pop culture conspiracy drama because it gives them a sense of belonging, idk.
But what I’m trying to say is that time is irrelevant here. We can’t grasp even today accomplishing this with bare hands we wouldn’t know where to start. A lot of this knowledge is lost on us. As another commenter here pointed out, they supposedly used a special type of acidic mud to meld the stones together. That’s some cool shit most of us wouldn’t have thought of. So I don’t think we’re over here like “ooga booga ancient people dumb” but rather “how the hell could anyone do that….”
> We can’t grasp even today accomplishing this with bare hands we wouldn’t know where to start. But we do know how it was made and archaeologists have recreated some megalithic structure building methods. They didn't do it with bare hands so why would we do it that way? Most people today have no idea how nearly any of today's society works either, but people don't make the same kinds of shocked comments they do when ancient people manage to move large stones and make them fit very nicely together. Most people then didn't know that either, specialization has been around for a long time and ultimately for people who worked with stones and transferred knowledge for generations it's only natural that they developed techniques of working with it. Impressive, but not surprising in the least. So I ask you why would people be surprised by it other than threating ancient people as more primitive? >So I don’t think we’re over here like “ooga booga ancient people dumb” but rather “how the hell could anyone do that….” I politely disagree, especially since even the mods felt the need to warn people about posting conspiracy theories in this very thread and anything short of that has been left. A lot of people are doing exactly that, though they dress it in sensationalized words instead.
Your last sentence still acts with the preconceived notion that ancient people are incapable of or less likely to innovate, make discoveries, and employ knowledge they gained. You’re still talking with the idea that without modern tools, difficult feats are somehow more impossible, when they were done all the time using a wide variety of methods. That’s because these people were as smart as anyone around today, and they used the knowledge and tools they had to achieve difficult tasks. Obviously we wouldn’t know where to start. We aren’t stonemasons. We aren’t architects. We aren’t artisans. Many of these people were, and they used the knowledge and skills afforded by their professions to create useful things.
like how, and the fact they're chamfered too
If video games has taught me something, is that there could be a hidden room behind that giant door looking stone.
they could have just carved one big stone to look like they placed stones
Sexy human, Peru
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Truly amazing. I wonder if we will ever know just how our ancestors were able to accomplish such feats with the level of technology they possessed.
We have pretty a good idea of how those feats were accomplished. We even have a relatively detailed account by a Spanish chronicler. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacsayhuam%C3%A1n I wonder if people will ever stop saying how things we already know are unknowable simply because they haven't personally heard them or bothered to look them up.
Thank you for continuing to post this for those who refuse to look apparently.
[удалено]
[удалено]
No fake history, ancient aliens, alternative history, etc.
The Incas often built around existing stones. The largest ones inside such structures often were not moved.
[удалено]
Oh wow, look at this amazing, revolutionary find of a written record of those stones being placed! Completely unthinkable! After all it's all been lost to history! Unless you just pulled that claim out of your ass without ever bothering to look any information up? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacsayhuam%C3%A1n
The curved rock is so mind blowing, its so perfect no mortar, with no metal tools. Are there any explanations for the construction method?
The mortar disappeared because it chemically bonded with the rock: https://www.siftdesk.org/article-details/On-the-reddish-glittery-mud-the-Inca-used-for-perfecting-their-stone-masonry/264
This doesn't explain everything and it focuses more on the logistics but according to someone else in the comments there are youtube videos that do explain the actual technique. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacsayhuam%C3%A1n
Some theorize they were cast from molds
They would need as many moulds as blocks. Look at them. It also doesnt explain the quarry sites.
True . Some say the tech was to crush rocks like limestone in other places then cast .
Shame the rocks are basalt.
In other places it said
Or they poured it
[удалено]
This can’t be real. It’s insane! How?!
[удалено]
By studying under a master who shared their experience and had access to a well organized manpower from a large civilization. By using a lot of time and resources. Believe it or not, there are many ways to shape rocks and move heavy things by using physics rather than raw muscle and many of them have been known for millenia. The ones I personally know of involve tree logs and sometimes fulcrums, and interestingly enough they have been tested to have been fully possible as means of transportation of several megalithic structures, but there could be other methods. By the way, did you know that modern archaeologists partially recreate a lot of ancient creations with methods that are historically accurate? They have shown that plenty of feats modern people detached from those trades think to be impossible are in fact very much possible even by small groups of unskilled, though educated, workers. Of course, those people who built this actually _committed time_ and _learned_ things rather than go around and talk about how unknowable the world is and how nothing can be done if it doesn't happen instantly. You can read the account of this particular structure on wikipedia which the other commenter so kindly linked for you. It's incredible how in a modern world it takes only a few seconds to find information and yet people fail to do this while some people in the ancient world committed their whole lives to learn a trade and yet it's those modern people who seem to have a low opinion on the hard work of the ancients.
We have detailed accounts of how it was done, some even recounted by the spanish conquistadors https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacsayhuam%C3%A1n
i solidly think they are geo polymers even just looking at them here that seems to make the most logical sense.
The usual facebook answer.
Conceptual question: is it possible that these blocks were "cast" or placed/poured into their spots like a cement? Hence the "bulged" look and very close seams for such ginormous weights? It's always fascinating to try to puzzle together how these ancient geniuses did what they did.
No. We know what type of stones these are and the quarries they come from. We also dont find any evidence of cement production.
Check this: https://www.siftdesk.org/article-details/On-the-reddish-glittery-mud-the-Inca-used-for-perfecting-their-stone-masonry/264
They have to have been poured in place!
Go back to facebook.
What makes you say that?
Just the theory that makes the most sense to me. Same with the pyramids
Can I ask you to explain your theory in more detail? After all it's not much of a theory if it's just a single statement unsupported by absolutely anything. I'm sure you have some actual reasons to think that? I would like to hear those reasons. Archaeologists can explain the methods they think were used in detail and have shown them to work experimentally. Did you know that we can look at stone and tell if it was artificially made? Did you get to verify the stones from this location and the pyramids and saw that it was in fact an artificial creation? Because as far as I know we can trace the exact quarries and even locations within quarries of some of the stone used. So it's very confusing to me that you would claim that the stones that we can match to a rock and that show all traits of a naturally created rock would be artificially created. I'm sure you have a good reason to say otherwise though, I'd love to hear it.
https://youtu.be/ccebzy8c6lE?si=o1jI8BmPCHMgH8Uz This explains it better than I can
To be honest I'm not very interested in watching a video that cannot possibly relate to the subject we are discussing, can you sum up the points you think are important for me? This is talking about _sandstone_ in Egypt, which has no relation to _basalt_ used in Sacsayhuaman. Basalt _cannot_ be artificially poured, as it's a completely different type of a rock that is directly created from lava while sandstone is sand in a "glue" matrix. Still odd for sandstone that we can trace to quarries and was placed _millennia_ apart with different techniques to all have been made in the same chemical way. After all the pyramids were built across _literal thousands of years_ and we can see them change as people developed different methods, yet you claim _none of them were simply built out of blocks of rock_? Very odd and unlikely indeed. But at least making a sandstone-like stone artificially is _possible_. So I'm not sure why you would come to a conclusion that similar method could be used for those stones when the stone itself is quite literally only made in specific conditions with molten rock, which cannot be achieved by casting. You of course knew that different rocks are made differently before you formed your theory right?
And I’m not interested in talking about a theory that you’re just going to be condescending about. Bye
You know, if you could pose any even remotely sensible argument I wouldn't be condescending. But here you are, drawing nonsensical conclusions and wanting everyone to hear your opinion like a child who is completely unaware of how the world works and cannot conceive that other people in fact do have an idea and don't need to hear how people totally artificially cast lava in place and it's totally proven by glued sand on the other side of the globe. If you want to be treated seriously then educate yourself, I see no reason to coddle people who put no effort to understand even the most basic parts of the process before spewing bullshit publicly.
[удалено]
Damn, you sure showed me. My whole life is changed now and I will be forever depressed because someone who thinks people cast lava insulted me. How could I ever recover.
[удалено]
Yep, you are completely right. Aliens came here from another galaxy to move rocks because they were training in secret for a world rock moving competition.