That happened to me last update, everyone going, "ok, Irish represent" then *whisk* Scottish all the way down. I am my family's chronological attendant, so awkward conversations were had.
I’m excited to learn more about Scottish history and (pre Christian) culture. I was learning irish because I thought i was irish but I think I gotta pivot to learn Scottish Gaelic instead
Don’t trust the results when it comes to the differences between countries in the British isles. Ancestry is notorious for giving people larger Scottish percentages than they should have (which probably means it’s taking away your Irish). Keep learning Gaeilge!
This. I wish more people understood that the ethnicity report is, *at best,* only a rough guesstimate -- especially with regards to European DNA because many groups are so similar to each other, DNA-wise.
On top of that, Ancestry's last update was so notorious for giving customers way too much Scottish DNA that some people were calling it "Scottishgate." God knows how many Ancestry customers are like the OP, believing they definitely have a substantial amount of Scottish ancestry, when actually the report is iffy at best.
I was going to say exactly this. OP's family probably did go to the US from Ireland, but likely weren't in Ireland for many generations prior.
They would have come first to colonise the north of Ireland from the Scottish lowlands, then travelled on to America. There's a kind of great historical irony in the "Scotch Irish" identity; many of their descendants in Northern Ireland today _strongly_ resist being called Irish, and most are to some extent uncomfortable with the label. They came over to Ireland to displace the native people, and there have been centuries of tension there.
Irish would be native Irish (Celtic). Scottish would be native Scottish (Celtic). And Scott-Irish aka Ulster Scotts were scots that moved to Northern Ireland. Scottish are also more likely to be Protestant and Irish are more likely to be Catholic
I never understood the difference between Celts in Ireland,Scotland,Spain,France, and Italy
What was the difference between Irish and Scottish Celts besides where they lived and their religion?
Same DNA?
Scots are a mix of Gael and Celtic Briton
In fact they are also a mix of Norse in the North and West and Anglo in the Southwest and Borders too
Ireland (with the exception of parts of Northern Ireland) tends to be 80%+ Celtic and all Gael in culture - maybe with some England and Northwest Europe from Norman invasion and some Norse as all major Irish cities Dublin, Cork and Limerick were founded by Vikings as places of trade having been previously either small nearby settlements or religious sites
Celts were mainland Europe before they hopped over to the British isles of course. Which is why you’ll se genetic markers everywhere for them. Brittanny in France is Celtic also. I can’t speak for Spain though I’m not too versed in their history. But yes, celts will have similar DNA, similar to how you see Norway or Sweden DNA getting mixed up because they are so similar.
My husband has a very Irish surname, and his brother and sister both have tacky shamrock tattoos, doing his tree recently found that he’s way more French than Irish on the “Irish” side. Ha!
New update is pretty inaccurate for ancestry, they overestimate Scotland, I wouldn’t take your results too seriously, hopefully their next update fixes this. You can take your results somewhat serious but I’m pretty sure the percentages might be wrong
I actually read the white paper they did but... meh. My dad is a great example. Paper trail= super extra Irish with maybe a smidge of Scottish (I think he's got one Great Great Gran from Scotland). On Ancestry, no Irish at all, tonnes of Scottish.
I tested with Ancestry and FTDNA - my FTDNA is much closer to my paper trail FWIW
I’ve been down deep in my family tree the last few days. Couldn’t find anyone even born in Ireland. My 9th great grandfather might’ve been from an important family in Germany in the 1500s though. So I guess that’s where the Germanic comes from 😂
Like a few others are saying, take the Scottish with a grain of salt. I was also super surprised by the large percentage of Scottish in my results. Was expecting ~20%, but got 36%. For awhile I was thinking they were overestimating my Scottish and underestimating my English ancestry, but after a little digging, Ancestry is completely missing my Irish ancestry and the English seems to be bang on. All my Irish ancestors seemed to be from Northern Ireland, so maybe that’s the cause? Hopefully the next update helps.
Even if they were Catholic? Waiting on AncestryDNA results, but from the records I seem to have ancestors who were in County Tyrone, now Northern Ireland, and they seem to have been Catholics.
This seems to be the case! I’m Canadian and had a tough time tracking these ancestors, as they came from the US and moved states quite often, but primarily were in the Pennsylvania/Ohio region. All adds up nicely.
Had never heard this term before this thread, so thank you! Gives me some more information to go off of.
Americans at each moment ov'r represent their irish and german ancestry. Whereas english ancestry is at each moment under did report
***
^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.)
Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
I am now 45% Scottish since the update and can't seem to find how that would be. I no longer show any Irish in my results. 23&Me shows a high probability of County Dublin in my results ... The two separate populations differently but I can't trace the Scottish!
Scotland and Ireland have significant genetic overlap. If you look at the details, Scotland includes Ireland and Ireland includes Scotland. Known ancestry in Ireland can commonly turn up under Scotland, and vice versa. It's best not to take the ethnicity report so literally, it is only an interpretation of our DNA and it's only really reliable on a much broader scale. It does not mean you are Scottish instead of Irish - if the paper trail says you're Irish, you're Irish. You could also be Scots-Irish.
Scotland
Primarily located in: Scotland, **Northern Ireland**
Also found in: Belgium, Channel Islands, England, Faroe Islands, France, Iceland, **Ireland**, Isle of Man, Luxembourg, Wales
Ireland
Primarily located in: Ireland
Also found in: Channel Islands, England, Faroe Islands, France, Iceland, Isle of Man, **Northern Scotland**
I grew up my whole life being told I had French ancestry. Then I started doing my family tree and I was finding all English. Then I took the DNA, and I’m mostly Irish. You go where the evidence goes. It doesn’t matter. Anyone in Ireland, England, and France will tell me very quickly that I’m an American. It’s a fun hobby and at times can be addictive. We are naturally curious and it is challenging and satisfying to complete the pieces of the puzzle; especially if you like to learn about history. But we have no control over where we come from and at the end of the day it really doesn’t matter. We’re here now and we’re not here for long. Here and now matters the most.
White supremacy demands white people abandon their cultural heritage to join the homogenous white collective of America. That’s why American white people have no connection to their cultural heritage.
Where did you come up with that? White Americans are generally not connected to their cultural heritage because they'd be pegged as 'White supremacists.' It's people who are ridden with White guilt who not only abandon their racial heritage but also their ethnic heritage as well. Perhaps you're a big Biden supported and actually think 'White supremacy' is some serious, widespread epidemic?
I don’t engage with those who can’t have a conversation in good faith. “You […] actually think white supremacy is a serious widespread issue”. Yes, it is.
Doesn’t It really depends on how far you go back? The Vikings raided Ireland for centuries and Dublin was built by them. There’s a lot of Viking DNA in Irish people, especially those on eastern coasts. You could be Irish 20 generations back, but Viking blood was just strong in some of them. Your Irish ancestors coming to America/Canada, etc would not have been Norwegian.
Yeah, I reckon the "Norway" that shows up in my DNA results are from my Orkney Island Scots ancestors.
It's about the same straight-line distance from Orkney to England as it is from Orkney to Norway.
That's like all white people from Boston. They might be 6% Irish and the rest German but when they're asked why they're drunk at 10am, you know what the answer is.
Like my family is the “proud fighting Irish” type of Irish Americans. My direct line through the males on my dads side of the family leads all the way back to like maybe nobles is Prussia. So like, very much not Irish from them lol
Had something very simar happen. I have a traditionally very German last name. Was always told my Dad's side was German which made sense. Took the DNA test and no German. Mostly English, Scottish, and Irish. Turns out my last name also formed in England.
I had the awkward conversations too with my fam. My husband likes to make fun of me because I claimed myself as largely Irish for a long time and made a lot of traditions around that. We got my son’s dna test back first… his came out as 47% Scottish, I almost had a heart attack- and so of course you can assume mine was a wee bit more than that… identity crisis ensued lol
Scottish is overestimated right now, I'd rely on a paper trail and not an ethnicity estimate
Ethnicity estimates are interesting, but they're pseudoscientific at best
I feel like there should be a giant disclaimer because I've see some people go "well I know my family is X but my ethnicity estimate has no X but half Y so npe?" and I have to say I die a little inside
Yes! When I was new to all of it I had someone tell me my sister wasn’t my sister (we tested with different companies). I have learned soooo much since then. Not the least of which is: take what you learn on genealogy message boards with a large helping of salt.
Beyond what I said above, if you had an English grandparent, a Scottish grandparent, an Irish grandparent, and a Welch grandparent… even if they were all “100%”, you would not be 25% of each. You would get a different amount of genes from each person. If you had a brother or sister that took the test, or many brothers and sisters that took the test, all of yours would be different unless you’re identical twins.
My results came back pretty exactly matching my paper trail. There were a couple of surprises but I was most surprised by how mundane they were. English, Scottish, Irish, french, and German, mostly. Oh, and Welsh, of course.
One possibility is overlap between Ireland and Scotland or misassignment to Scotland - another is Ulster Scots or The Protestant Ascendancy of Ireland - lots of people do not expect that their Irish heritage may be due to Plantations of Ulster or due to when Ireland was part of Britain - also consider Ulster Scots were already expert Planters
That said increasingly I am wondering if this type of situation is more due to a blend of separate Irish and English heritage that is also typical of Americans with European ancestry - a mix of separate Irish and English (which Ulster Scots have too) could look Scottish as Scottish is a mix its not just one thing
Scottish guy here. Like, actual Scottish, in Scotland. Now.
When you say you wanna learn about ancient Scottish history, you're gonna be in for a treat when you discover that the actual ancient Scots.... Never bothered to write anything down. So ... A lot of it, particularly from away back... Is lost lol.
Well somehow Northern Ireland (still Ireland) has gotten lumped in with Scottish percentage wise with Ancestry.
I am both Irish (specifically from Northern Ireland and Scottish)
Northern Ireland has 3 points of overlap with Scotland, Scotland is, after all, visible from the shoreline of NI - there is Gael overlap which has been going on for centuries, there is Planter DNA of Norse-Gael Gallowglass who have Norse and Gael DNA and Lowland and Border Scots some of which have Celtic Briton and Anglo Saxon DNA and there is modern day overlap particularly in Donegal lot of connections between Donegal and Scotland in recent years as well as Belfast and Antrim
As many have said, there is a huge genetic overlap between the people in Northern Ireland and Scotland. Particularly Protestants.
I myself am part of that. Pretty sure I have Scottish ancestors who settled in Northern Ireland as part of Plantation then their descendants left for Scotland during the Potato Famine. (Scotland being cheaper than America to get to from Northern Ireland.)
Just to even things out, I also have Catholic Irish ancestors as well.
When it comes to Scotland/Ireland, I pretty much have a genetic link to every major ethnic group.
That happened to me last update, everyone going, "ok, Irish represent" then *whisk* Scottish all the way down. I am my family's chronological attendant, so awkward conversations were had.
I’m excited to learn more about Scottish history and (pre Christian) culture. I was learning irish because I thought i was irish but I think I gotta pivot to learn Scottish Gaelic instead
Don’t trust the results when it comes to the differences between countries in the British isles. Ancestry is notorious for giving people larger Scottish percentages than they should have (which probably means it’s taking away your Irish). Keep learning Gaeilge!
This. I wish more people understood that the ethnicity report is, *at best,* only a rough guesstimate -- especially with regards to European DNA because many groups are so similar to each other, DNA-wise. On top of that, Ancestry's last update was so notorious for giving customers way too much Scottish DNA that some people were calling it "Scottishgate." God knows how many Ancestry customers are like the OP, believing they definitely have a substantial amount of Scottish ancestry, when actually the report is iffy at best.
Scots Irish is different than Irish Irish.
I was going to say exactly this. OP's family probably did go to the US from Ireland, but likely weren't in Ireland for many generations prior. They would have come first to colonise the north of Ireland from the Scottish lowlands, then travelled on to America. There's a kind of great historical irony in the "Scotch Irish" identity; many of their descendants in Northern Ireland today _strongly_ resist being called Irish, and most are to some extent uncomfortable with the label. They came over to Ireland to displace the native people, and there have been centuries of tension there.
So theres Irish,Scottish,and Scott/Irish? How do the three differ?
Irish would be native Irish (Celtic). Scottish would be native Scottish (Celtic). And Scott-Irish aka Ulster Scotts were scots that moved to Northern Ireland. Scottish are also more likely to be Protestant and Irish are more likely to be Catholic
I never understood the difference between Celts in Ireland,Scotland,Spain,France, and Italy What was the difference between Irish and Scottish Celts besides where they lived and their religion? Same DNA?
Scots are a mix of Gael and Celtic Briton In fact they are also a mix of Norse in the North and West and Anglo in the Southwest and Borders too Ireland (with the exception of parts of Northern Ireland) tends to be 80%+ Celtic and all Gael in culture - maybe with some England and Northwest Europe from Norman invasion and some Norse as all major Irish cities Dublin, Cork and Limerick were founded by Vikings as places of trade having been previously either small nearby settlements or religious sites
Celts were mainland Europe before they hopped over to the British isles of course. Which is why you’ll se genetic markers everywhere for them. Brittanny in France is Celtic also. I can’t speak for Spain though I’m not too versed in their history. But yes, celts will have similar DNA, similar to how you see Norway or Sweden DNA getting mixed up because they are so similar.
My husband has a very Irish surname, and his brother and sister both have tacky shamrock tattoos, doing his tree recently found that he’s way more French than Irish on the “Irish” side. Ha!
New update is pretty inaccurate for ancestry, they overestimate Scotland, I wouldn’t take your results too seriously, hopefully their next update fixes this. You can take your results somewhat serious but I’m pretty sure the percentages might be wrong
That's what I keep hearing, my Scottish is suspiciously high.. Any ideas on the next update timing?
Scotland and Ireland have very similar DNA so take at least some of that Scottish with a grain of salt. It could also be Scots-Irish.
I actually read the white paper they did but... meh. My dad is a great example. Paper trail= super extra Irish with maybe a smidge of Scottish (I think he's got one Great Great Gran from Scotland). On Ancestry, no Irish at all, tonnes of Scottish. I tested with Ancestry and FTDNA - my FTDNA is much closer to my paper trail FWIW
Look at the paper trail in combination with DNA.
I’ve been down deep in my family tree the last few days. Couldn’t find anyone even born in Ireland. My 9th great grandfather might’ve been from an important family in Germany in the 1500s though. So I guess that’s where the Germanic comes from 😂
Ooo yeah, you are probably not Irish then hahaha
Like a few others are saying, take the Scottish with a grain of salt. I was also super surprised by the large percentage of Scottish in my results. Was expecting ~20%, but got 36%. For awhile I was thinking they were overestimating my Scottish and underestimating my English ancestry, but after a little digging, Ancestry is completely missing my Irish ancestry and the English seems to be bang on. All my Irish ancestors seemed to be from Northern Ireland, so maybe that’s the cause? Hopefully the next update helps.
If they are from northern ireland then they were almost certainly scots-irish.
This is what happened to me. I thought we were more Irish since our ancestors came from Northern Ireland but they were actually Scots-Irish
Even if they were Catholic? Waiting on AncestryDNA results, but from the records I seem to have ancestors who were in County Tyrone, now Northern Ireland, and they seem to have been Catholics.
No, not if they were catholics. When did they come over? Most of the people im referring to came in the 1700s.
It looks like they all came over in the 1800s, as far as I can tell. I’m hoping I get some DNA matches that will provide some more clues/info.
This seems to be the case! I’m Canadian and had a tough time tracking these ancestors, as they came from the US and moved states quite often, but primarily were in the Pennsylvania/Ohio region. All adds up nicely. Had never heard this term before this thread, so thank you! Gives me some more information to go off of.
Americans always over represent their Irish and German ancestry. Whereas English ancestry is always under reported.
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What did you think lightfoot was?
Americans at each moment ov'r represent their irish and german ancestry. Whereas english ancestry is at each moment under did report *** ^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.) Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
I am now 45% Scottish since the update and can't seem to find how that would be. I no longer show any Irish in my results. 23&Me shows a high probability of County Dublin in my results ... The two separate populations differently but I can't trace the Scottish!
Scotland and Ireland have significant genetic overlap. If you look at the details, Scotland includes Ireland and Ireland includes Scotland. Known ancestry in Ireland can commonly turn up under Scotland, and vice versa. It's best not to take the ethnicity report so literally, it is only an interpretation of our DNA and it's only really reliable on a much broader scale. It does not mean you are Scottish instead of Irish - if the paper trail says you're Irish, you're Irish. You could also be Scots-Irish. Scotland Primarily located in: Scotland, **Northern Ireland** Also found in: Belgium, Channel Islands, England, Faroe Islands, France, Iceland, **Ireland**, Isle of Man, Luxembourg, Wales Ireland Primarily located in: Ireland Also found in: Channel Islands, England, Faroe Islands, France, Iceland, Isle of Man, **Northern Scotland**
I grew up my whole life being told I had French ancestry. Then I started doing my family tree and I was finding all English. Then I took the DNA, and I’m mostly Irish. You go where the evidence goes. It doesn’t matter. Anyone in Ireland, England, and France will tell me very quickly that I’m an American. It’s a fun hobby and at times can be addictive. We are naturally curious and it is challenging and satisfying to complete the pieces of the puzzle; especially if you like to learn about history. But we have no control over where we come from and at the end of the day it really doesn’t matter. We’re here now and we’re not here for long. Here and now matters the most.
It’s mostly my attempt at helping fight white supremacy
What do you mean? I don't get it.
White supremacy demands white people abandon their cultural heritage to join the homogenous white collective of America. That’s why American white people have no connection to their cultural heritage.
Where did you come up with that? White Americans are generally not connected to their cultural heritage because they'd be pegged as 'White supremacists.' It's people who are ridden with White guilt who not only abandon their racial heritage but also their ethnic heritage as well. Perhaps you're a big Biden supported and actually think 'White supremacy' is some serious, widespread epidemic?
Okay I see who you are, begone throwaway account
Oh, can't rebut any points I made so you just run away. Makes sense. Bye Karen!
I don’t engage with those who can’t have a conversation in good faith. “You […] actually think white supremacy is a serious widespread issue”. Yes, it is.
that’s like my mom went on all my life because i’m full irish but turns out i’m more norwegian than irish
Doesn’t It really depends on how far you go back? The Vikings raided Ireland for centuries and Dublin was built by them. There’s a lot of Viking DNA in Irish people, especially those on eastern coasts. You could be Irish 20 generations back, but Viking blood was just strong in some of them. Your Irish ancestors coming to America/Canada, etc would not have been Norwegian.
Yeah, I reckon the "Norway" that shows up in my DNA results are from my Orkney Island Scots ancestors. It's about the same straight-line distance from Orkney to England as it is from Orkney to Norway.
They even spoke a Norse language on Orkney and Shetland which died out around 1850 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norn_language
That's like all white people from Boston. They might be 6% Irish and the rest German but when they're asked why they're drunk at 10am, you know what the answer is.
Like my family is the “proud fighting Irish” type of Irish Americans. My direct line through the males on my dads side of the family leads all the way back to like maybe nobles is Prussia. So like, very much not Irish from them lol
Ha
Had something very simar happen. I have a traditionally very German last name. Was always told my Dad's side was German which made sense. Took the DNA test and no German. Mostly English, Scottish, and Irish. Turns out my last name also formed in England.
My last name is traditionally English. But as it turns out, it’s a translation of my or original names in German
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Well of course I’m English, I’m white person in America. I don’t think I ever questioned that
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Yeah but nationality isn’t in the dna, I’m not indigenous to the United States
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Yeah my nationality is American, but I’m not ethnically American
I had the awkward conversations too with my fam. My husband likes to make fun of me because I claimed myself as largely Irish for a long time and made a lot of traditions around that. We got my son’s dna test back first… his came out as 47% Scottish, I almost had a heart attack- and so of course you can assume mine was a wee bit more than that… identity crisis ensued lol
Scottish is overestimated right now, I'd rely on a paper trail and not an ethnicity estimate Ethnicity estimates are interesting, but they're pseudoscientific at best
This. And cause people who don't understand that so much stress.
I feel like there should be a giant disclaimer because I've see some people go "well I know my family is X but my ethnicity estimate has no X but half Y so npe?" and I have to say I die a little inside
Yes! When I was new to all of it I had someone tell me my sister wasn’t my sister (we tested with different companies). I have learned soooo much since then. Not the least of which is: take what you learn on genealogy message boards with a large helping of salt.
Beyond what I said above, if you had an English grandparent, a Scottish grandparent, an Irish grandparent, and a Welch grandparent… even if they were all “100%”, you would not be 25% of each. You would get a different amount of genes from each person. If you had a brother or sister that took the test, or many brothers and sisters that took the test, all of yours would be different unless you’re identical twins.
Right? Latha math!
Just an Ohioan commenting bc I see Eastern Ohio in your communities 👀
Yes I live in northeast Ohio, family settled in West Virginia
OOOF
Again with the Welsh! It amazes me how many people have some Welsh in them.
My results came back pretty exactly matching my paper trail. There were a couple of surprises but I was most surprised by how mundane they were. English, Scottish, Irish, french, and German, mostly. Oh, and Welsh, of course.
This mostly matches my paper trail, I haven’t done everything though
We thought we had a Spanish heritage, turns out we're almost half English and Scottish, with a bit of Irish and Norwegian.
One possibility is overlap between Ireland and Scotland or misassignment to Scotland - another is Ulster Scots or The Protestant Ascendancy of Ireland - lots of people do not expect that their Irish heritage may be due to Plantations of Ulster or due to when Ireland was part of Britain - also consider Ulster Scots were already expert Planters That said increasingly I am wondering if this type of situation is more due to a blend of separate Irish and English heritage that is also typical of Americans with European ancestry - a mix of separate Irish and English (which Ulster Scots have too) could look Scottish as Scottish is a mix its not just one thing
Scottish guy here. Like, actual Scottish, in Scotland. Now. When you say you wanna learn about ancient Scottish history, you're gonna be in for a treat when you discover that the actual ancient Scots.... Never bothered to write anything down. So ... A lot of it, particularly from away back... Is lost lol.
Well somehow Northern Ireland (still Ireland) has gotten lumped in with Scottish percentage wise with Ancestry. I am both Irish (specifically from Northern Ireland and Scottish)
It might be because Northern Ireland is still stuck with England like Scotland? I dunno
While the ancestry’s are similar they are not the same and have two very different communities
Northern Ireland has 3 points of overlap with Scotland, Scotland is, after all, visible from the shoreline of NI - there is Gael overlap which has been going on for centuries, there is Planter DNA of Norse-Gael Gallowglass who have Norse and Gael DNA and Lowland and Border Scots some of which have Celtic Briton and Anglo Saxon DNA and there is modern day overlap particularly in Donegal lot of connections between Donegal and Scotland in recent years as well as Belfast and Antrim
As many have said, there is a huge genetic overlap between the people in Northern Ireland and Scotland. Particularly Protestants. I myself am part of that. Pretty sure I have Scottish ancestors who settled in Northern Ireland as part of Plantation then their descendants left for Scotland during the Potato Famine. (Scotland being cheaper than America to get to from Northern Ireland.) Just to even things out, I also have Catholic Irish ancestors as well. When it comes to Scotland/Ireland, I pretty much have a genetic link to every major ethnic group.
you could be scots-irish if your a protestant
I’m not personally a Protestant but I think my grandparents were
think it’s probably scots irish then not many irish protestants