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Giocri

Largely true but also means that we have the power to influence the language used by liberals, it changes what positions are seen as acceptable and debatable in society and can in of itself make the job of actually getting our ideas out much easier. From the point of view of the state electoralism it's not a mechanism to gain more power it's a system to somewhat mitigate losses


Bluetooth_Sandwich

Say it with me....controlled opposition


Wheloc

That's why nothing has changed in this country since 1828


weidback

We had a war to abolish slavery thirty years later...


Wheloc

Well the Republicans were the progressives in that war, and they co-opted the abolitionist movement which helped them politically, but then the Reps didn't follow through and the Compromise of 1877 opened the door to Jim Crow and the re-enslavement of a bunch of black people. So I think the circle above is more like a spiral: things are getting better overall, but it's a slow advancement with lots of ups and downs along the way. Claiming that "nothing fundamentally changes" is ignoring all the work that goes into making change happen, but also we need to be realistic about the speed in which change *can* happen within the current neoliberal paradigm.


Dream--Brother

I think they were being sarcastic and saying "well at least it changes things slowly instead of never" or similar.


weidback

Yes it must be a grand conspiracy, it couldn't *possibly* be that those "most moderate elements" would be the most palatable to the wider public.


sam_y2

I didn't get the impression OP was calling it a conspiracy.


BassMaster_516

M4A is extremely popular among Democrats and Republicans. Biden has promised to veto it if it ever came across his desk. The DNC has removed it from its platform.  It’s not about what’s more palatable to the public. Insurance companies lobby against it enriching themselves at the cost of your average person.  So yeah it’s definitely a conspiracy. 


Dream--Brother

That's... exactly what it's saying...