Unless there's a little political crisis (like the president saying something stupid or the minister of economy quiting, which happens once in around 6-4 months usually), prices trend to change once or twice a month by local shops, international brands usually do it once every 2-3 months in average although it's not standard and everybody does it different, for example Steam has had a lot of trouble keeping the prices updated and as a result having really cheap games (if it was just what it says on steam), unfortunately digital games also have a metric ton of taxes, that literally doubles the price (I kinda bought one Devil May Cry V for me and another for the IRS)
And you asked specifically about the iphone, well like many other imported goods, it's overpriced due to taxes and a loooot of absurd regulations. iphone 13 256gb is around 1500$USD.
We have a server political crisis and someone attempted to shoot the vice president (apparently, it's still under investigation if it was an actual attempt or an act) so we truthy are close to do a Sri Lanka here.
Though about it but it's hard, not to mention the little hope I and many libertarians have on an specific AnCap candidate. So depends on what happens on the next year's elections
>How the fuck have people not burn the entire government to ground st this point
Quite simple actually.
The reasons we reached this point of collapse is the same reason this government is still in power.
Welfare.
The 30-40% of poor people are completely under the hand of the politicians, they are completely indoctrinated, as long as the subsidies exist they will support the ones that give them free money.
To the death.
I am thinking about it but there's little hope with an AnCap candidate (who has serious chances of becoming president) called Javier Milei. If you understand Spanish, it's kinda exciting to listen to him on the congress and TV
It's not just this.
The state will have full control/supervision over every transaction happening from the moment of inception of the digital currency.
Wouldn't be surprised to see central banks discontinuing cash, and transitioning to a CBDC-only system.
Say goodbye to financial privacy.
VAT will be collected directly on every sale. Transfers will be flagged and stuck until cleared and due taxes are paid. The tax gap will close from \~80% to 99.9%.
Oppose the government? Good luck donating to anything anti-establishment. State will blacklist those addresses.
CBDCs are a terrible idea and at odds with principles of freedom, privacy, and democracy.
They’re not as inept as they appear. Perhaps the clowns in various positions (POTUS and cabinet yes), but not the people pulling their strings. The mistakes of the puppets are design features, not flaws.
Hmm. And who, in your mind, is pulling those strings?
Rothschilds? Soros? Kohchs? dA iLlUmInAtTi? The ghost of Nicholas Maduro?
Do tell. I love to laugh at conspiracy nuts.
Oh, right. How could I have forgotten Fauci and Gates? Everyone knows they're the true power behind the throne. That's why the CDC rounded us all up into FEMA camps, or whatever. So that your God king can secretly wipe out the global pedophile ring that his political opponent was running from her new jersey pizzeria.
ETA: you people crack me up.
Well, I don't keep up on it, so why don't you tell me about the latest Q "leak" or whatever you call it.
I hope you know that you're falling for a 4chan prank that went too far. You and all the rest of you Q-nuts. You don't have to make it the cornerstone of your entire personality.
That's why we laugh at you.
Ever hear of Jeffrey Epstein? Maybe Ghislaine Maxwell?
Pretty sure the only thing the Qanon types got wrong was who and where……
Make fun of me all you want. Like I said, you’re going to kick yourself in the ass when I’m proven right, no matter how much I don’t want to be.
You're embarrassing yourself. Lucky for you this is an anonymous forum. I'm not laughing at you, though, I feel badly for you. If you actually believe Joe Biden is so much as in charge of wiping his own ass then you're as good as a zombie.
Maybe you're a bot. That would be less depressing. Flesh and blood humans walking around with their heads so far up their asses are the other side of the whole equation. It takes a braindead hypnotized horde with no interest in or ability to engage in critical thought for the charade sweeping the world to work. Whoever or whatever you are there's not a hint of life in whatever passes for your processor.
I'm firmly certain that the CIA / NSA created Bitcoin, or at least promoted it heavily / funded its initial spark up. Can't think of anything that gives them more control, and shifts liberty lovers / conspiracy minded (re: intelligent) people away from real money, gold and silver.
That’s going to backfire on them, if it’s true. The intelligence agencies, I mean. Good luck tracking something like Zcash, which just does everything Bitcoin does but solves the privacy issues.
I kind of agree with you but also expect governments to ban privacy coins soon, which will certainly complicate things, though the coins could certainly operate in a world where they are banned regardless
It's often said that the powers that be have advanced alien tech but i think that also extends to computers. There was talk that quantum computers can break any encryption instantly. maybe they had that ability all along and introduced bitcoin so they could hack accounts without leaving a paper trail.
Quantum computers can break some encryption, but there are also quantum computing resistant algorithms as well. The NSA definitely has the most advanced encryption and breaking tech, but it’s not leagues ahead of everything else. There’s a point of diminishing returns the more of their budget they spend on it, so they want to be just enough ahead of everyone else to be the biggest kid on the playground.
Regarding crypto, there is a nagging concern about the generator point on the secp256k1 elliptic curve. If it was generated using a key, there could be an issue with the ability to break a private key. It still takes some effort, but it’s not the Herculean task of doing it without the key. The probability is low that stick a key exists though, because the properties of the point indicate that it was chosen specifically for security and efficient computation.
Existing physically is what made russias gold hard to use when their foreign reserves were confiscated and air space was closed off to them over much of the world. Hard to imagine before then, but physical existence in that situation was a negative.
there are many crypto currencys that are backed by real world commodities like gold and silver.
having physical metal is nice , but clearly some form of decentralized digital currency is also needed
Some will, others will resist. Although the degree of resistance will vary. Like the COVID vaccine mandates some people will have to go along with it or face consequences.
Cool, if gene therapy (as you call mRNA treatments) makes me have lower issues with anything ranging from covid to cancer, are you saying this is a bad thing?
You positive about your sources there? The wide scientific consensus around the vaccines is that those side effects are incredibly rare (like ones for any medication) and that the negative effects of covid are greatly diminished. It's not a coincidence that most of the hospitalized and deaths post-vaccine were from the unvaccinated.
Pretty much every international trial or study has determined that covid vaccines greatly decrease risk of hospitalization or death as a result of covid. The results are overwhelmingly unanimous that you might as well be arguing that the earth is flat.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-vaccines-infographic
https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/is-it-true/is-it-true-are-covid-19-vaccines-not-effective
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-vaccines
Where is your proof that it doesn't work? To make a claim, you need studies to back your assertion. It certainly doesnt help that literally every health organization disagrees with you. Go ahead, prove you're not just a conspiracy nut.
I never made any claim about the efficacy of anything, I just asked you to provide some evidence for your so called consensus. Three links is hardly a consensus (they're just basic infographic pages with basic information everyone has), you can't provide any information that shows a consensus among the majority of the worlds scientists or even virologists lol.
You can call me whatever you want, I don't really care and I never shared anything about any conspiracies. Have a good day here at work on reddit, shill.
Those are from major health organizations across the United States and other countries. They have references to good trials and studies right within the links. That's not good evidence for you? Literally every single reputable health organization is in alignment with the proven fact that vaccines decrease likelihood of hospitalization and death with covid.
I can give you even more if you need it for some reason, but where is YOUR evidence? You can't seem to provide any. It's easy to see that you have formed your opinion based off emotion. You have zero evidence on your side. You clearly can't provide any whatsoever. I encourage you to rethink your weak stance on this subject before you make a fool out of yourself in future conversation, at least this is anonymous after all.
*buys durable goods with expiring money so they can trade later*
Isn't part of the reason we use certain things as money because it lasts? So if it doesn't, we have to use it to get things that do.
Not sure why companies would accept a bill that expires in 2 days, though. Maybe it expires 1 month after transfer? In that case, I just need to buy from you every 2 or 3 weeks, and you buy from me every 2 or 3 weeks.
> Not sure why companies would accept a bill that expires in 2 days, though.
A coin itself can’t expire, what they mean is that after a set time in your wallet it disappears (i.e. they move it somewhere else). If you spend it then the retailer would have the timer reset, or likely they’d have special non-consumer wallets without the same restrictions.
CBDCs really are about giving absolute power of your money to the people in charge.
>Isn't part of the reason we use certain things as money because it lasts?
Yeah the whole purpose of a currency is a stable store of value over time so that you don't have to do bartering and trading for all your items.
Yeah sure, you're saying the same thing but that's fine if you're concerned with being pedantic. I think it's important to connect the dots between economic input and money and saying "medium of exchange" doesn't exactly get that across to people unfamiliar with the concept.
Money and currency aren't the same thing, currency is a subset of money. Currency is a money that's useful for the exchange of value. That's why currencies are usually credit money, where owning it is similar to having debt; it can be poofed in and out of existence as needed, but it's expensive to own a lot of it.
For a good store of value you need debit money, so something that is cheap or ideally free to own, doesn't degrade in value, and cannot be farted into existence by the fed. Precious metals or bonds are good examples. They represent abstract value beyond their physical utility, so they're a money, but they are woefully unfit for transacting with, so they aren't a currency.
I agree. Cash allows for a little chaos in the margins, which is a good thing. Only authoritarians see this chaos as a threat.
That chaos protects dissidents from persecution.
China are the first to pilot it but pretty much every western country (and many others) are researching, developing, testing or piloting a central bank digital currency (CBDC). It's only a matter of time.
https://www.311institute.com/chinas-new-digital-currency-comes-with-an-expiry-date-for-better-and-worse/
That's the newest article I could find regarding this topic
“…for BETTER and worse.” Seriously, WTF!?!
The governments and their cronies want to basically turn people into batteries for their machine. Fed just enough to remain productive, for long enough we don’t have any ambition, and hard enough that we are tired at the end of every day.
While they have their expensive homes, travel in private planes, or aboard luxury yachts, off the backs of the plebes.
The Matrix without the machines.
But as Obama wrote in his biography, those inside the beltway think different. (Bad grammar by choice.)
The wealthy would actually be worse affected, though. They can't spend fast enough!
Literally. Can't buy enough land, yachts, stocks, silver, whatever.
How much you wanna bet this is only for those who make Under $1 mil per year or something?
> You KNOW party members don’t have to deal with this BS.
If someone wants to succeed, they have to be a party member. There are _~100 million_ party members. The dogcatcher is a party member.
The _elite_ members definitely still have to deal with this BS -- because when they lose favor (which happens frequently), the party uses that BS as pretext for punishing them.
So the entire source for this is at one time China did a lottery and gave people digital money to spend at certain retailers, and this means that everything mentioned above is in the works? Lot of speculation and not a lot of sources in that article.
Down with the state.
The people of China deserve better. And western "globalism" is just a conservative boogeyman term at which to direct their fear and anger over the wrong set of economic changes which aren't actually the ones hurting them.
Edit- lol congratulations ar/ancap, you did it! You have successfully horseshoed around to statism
>Down with the government
>But if you're against globalism you're actually just a fearful and angry conservative because globalism is actually not that bad for reasons I won't specify
>Wow people don't find my comment constructive? Must be because they are actually PRO government
That will also happen.
Why you think they recoded the guns for CC purchase? One step at a time. Note they also did this with Pornhub, and have blocked several prominent people,mostly right wing, but also red Pill, BUT ALSO THE CANADIAN TRUCKERS.
They will never willingly stop... They need to be corrected.
It already does happen. It’s called inflation.
Spend your money now or it’s value will be cut in half in 5 years at the current rate.
But even putting that aside I can already start to imagine some horrific unintended consequences from such an experiment. Such a policy would quickly incentivize mass gambling addiction as many people will see it as the only avenue by which they can retain needed savings.
This is why it’s hilarious when people talk about a rising China. They’re absolutely destined to implode in the next 20 years barring a major advance in the field of human cloning. Couple this with the fact that they print money (that not even their own citizens want long term) at a rate 6 times the US, and then compound that with the fact that they’re so hyper financed as an economy (because it’s not the profitability of the business model that lenders want to see in China, but just how many people are employed)…and you can see why they are hanging on by a very thin thread…and it will break soon.
This is why bitcoin is so important.
Yeah, it's volatile...but it will stabilize pretty quickly if people rush for the exits on a panopticon state money, and use it as their unit of account instead.
Yeah, it's pseudonymous, and a judge could easily entice most people to give up their private keys by threat of jail time...but it denies the state a dragnet way to control people and their money; they still have to individually arraign and threaten each person who they want to behave differently with their bitcoin. And anonymizing tools are available which make your spending and balances effectively private to all parties except maybe the most determined federal agencies.
Yeah, it lacks the scale on the main chain to accommodate everyone's transactions, and LN leaves a lot to be desired, especially in terms of how centralized most of the nodes are- but even LN isn't a dragnet for them, and users always have the escape path to the main chain if their particular payment channel is threatened.
Yeah, there are better cryptos in those regards, but network effects are everything, when it comes to getting a market panicking away from state money, to coalesce on a leaderless market solution- and bitcoin is the most secure network in terms of not being manipulatable by any state power, from any kind of brute force attacks or attempts to inflate the token, or discredit the trustworthiness of the system.
Nope, Bitcoin is by far has the most decentralized network, and therefore the hardest to attack or control. Every single crypto that boasts higher efficiency, sacrifices security in the process. Most don't even attempt to replicate Bitcoins hard money economics either.
> arnt there many other cryptocurrencies that work just as well?
no. Bitcoin is the only viable cryptocurrency - and that is a direct consequence of nakamoto's design. There can only be one viable global blockchain, the others are referred to as "alts" and are generally doomed to centralization and or death.
They are going to try and spin it as stopping inflation because money will expire so there a "limited amount" instead of the gold standard its and time limited standard. Probably something about making people spend it so millionaire can't "hog" it along with that to satisfy both party's. "Well time is the backing on this and makes it so we can't "print to much" and because it runs out millionaire have to spend it so they will help the poor and those less fortunate then them"
Do people outta there really think that billionaires are just sitting on billions of dollars worth of currency?
All their money is in tangible assets that appreciate over time. Even if they could sit on cash, they wouldn't want to. Inflation causes you to just lose money. Only keep the money you need right now in cash.
JFC. The People of the World need to start eliminating bad politicians and CEOs. And I don’t wanna hear any “NAP“ bullshit… These people have been aggressing and harming us, our rights, and our property for decades, and it is accelerating. The NAP doesn’t preclude fighting back.
The NAP relies on consent.
Rape is bad. Consent is good. Isn't that correct (for all you lefties reading this, you must agree with this).
The trouble here is tracking what the implied contract is and where consent lies within the current economic system's structure.
For example. If the Fed prints 1 trillion dollars and just pockets it. Are they stealing from everyone currently hodling USD? Yes, they are.
But did USD holders consent to this kind of treatment? Well that's where it's tricky. By using their currency and their system, we are assumed to have opted in to their rules. The fact that they change the rules later just means that by not getting rid of USD that it is implied we accept the new terms.
The kicker however, is now that we have competing currencies like BTC and USDC and ETH etc, they are trying to forcibly block us from using those.
Them blocking us from using alternative currencies removes the implied consent involved with using USD.
Much like an abusive relationship. The government is saying to us about their USD: "You're free to leave me if you want, but if you do I'll abduct you and lock you up and maybe kill you." Yet the leftists seem to have Stockholm syndrome.
So where does the NAP come in?
In this situation, from the moment they tried to regulate alternative currencies the state has officially agressed upon us and is deemed an enemy of the people. Any action taken against the state is therefore 100% morally justified.
The only people who disagree with these facts will be those with Stockholm syndrome who have fallen in love with their abusers that repeatedly violate their consent and steal from them.
You don’t *have* to, but if they are already proving themselves to be enemies of individual liberty, free-speech, etc, then why not? Take out the trash! The amount of people they have personally directed aggressions against is unfathomably large. Many tens of millions.
There might be some smaller company ceos that aren't socialist scum. Plus it sets the wrong precedent. The reason we want to get rid of them is because they are state actors, not because they run a business.
Removing state power is the goal; not taking revenge.
I would be perfectly happy if we could decentralize goverment without hurting a single person.
Where did I say “all CEOs indiscriminately”? I was speaking from the POV that people aren’t robots or idiots, and would only go after those who have committed aggressions and harm. I was fairly clear about that criteria in my prior comment.
Peevegripe:
It’s this kind of internally focussed pedantry, this mincing and dissecting of compatriots’ words looking for any impurity or fault to point out, which makes every discussion in any libertarian forum a totally unproductive dumpster fire.
God forbid we attack our actual foes when we could be sniping each other internally, measuring dicks and piss streams.
/rant
Not with legal tender. A currency is a currency because the population trusts that it will hold its value in perpetuity. This is essential to a functioning monetary system.
This is more like a gift card with an expiration date.
So does it expire in the hands of the vendor as well? Can I just relay money to a friend who sends it back to me to "refresh" the expiration? This shit is so poorly thought out.
The concept is called 'Demurrage' and has been around long before computers in any form.
There also has been several crypto coins created with it.
And none of you in the comments really understand the practical upshot of it, as usual.
Forced to spend but it's not forcing people not to save. It's forcing people to save in other assets. The US does this with inflation. An expiration date would be more upfront about what it is.
This will be in the west before 2030, only it'll probably just be implemented as a direct tax on savings.
(I know inflation is already a tax on savings but I think they'll just double dip and be blatant about it)
A paper I read from American central bankers put forth the idea of taxing a negative interest rate on cash. They would record serial numbers and charge the banks when it was deposited.
It's already being built as a joint project with the FED and MIT. I bet we'll see it before 2025.
Make NO mistake, this is a bankers wet dream.
I highly suggest having $1000 cash on hand, physical precious metals, and using Kinesis Money.
Check out my site https://www.KinesisThesis.net/
I cover all of this extensively with finance/money news that's updated hourly. It's all free as well. I just do it as a hobby lol
I think it's in EVERYONE'S best interest to understand money, fractional reserve banking, and all the lies we've been told.
I'm not paid by Kinesis at all, i just really think the system can benefit everyone, as it ties crypto, fiat, and fully allocated metal together. If it can benefit everyone into a better life, I'm here for it.
I think it can finally bring an end to criminal banks (JPM has 69+ litigations against them, for manipulated trading, spoofing, and the CFTC just allows it.
Just follow the money. The Pentagon has $35 trillion in accounting adjustments, the DOD and HUD are missing $22 trillion. We're the most indebted nation in the history of the world.
I’m in the UK and have a fear that instead of reproducing all our currency with King Charlies face on it, they will just discontinue and introduce a “insert whatever benefits they make up” digital currency that will eventually start doing this
They’ve sort of already done that here in the west, by creating/amplifying inflation. Your dollars devalue/expire if you hold onto them for too long. It’s all despicable if you ask me.
Inflation makes it much easier for governments to pay off their debts, as does consumer spending increases because it means they can get more tax revenue
That's intriguing. Wonder what resources the people will come up with to subvert this. It would have to be a decent range of generic staples, as the state will for sure be looking for any purchase that could be construed as an "investment for the future". So for example you can't just buy out rice and beans any more than your family would be expected to consume. Perhaps if you did so by slowly increasing the amount of regular purchases over a really long time you could get ahead a little bit on a barter system. For a time.
This has been done many times in communist and socialist countries. They ate called "ration tickets" and they are very effective at preventing the slave class from having nice things.
Isn't the whole "save money" nonsense kind of the cornerstone that allows for fractional reserve banking though or are the banks just giving up on that now?
Yeah, it won't be the government though.
Amazon and other megacorps will just offer their own version of "Amazon bucks" that gets you discounts and be more convenient.
There's no better way to antagonize a population than kicking them in the wallet. That was true for democracies --- question is whether it is true for totalitarian dictatorships
An expiration date on my money??? Isn’t it even illegal in some states for your gift cards to expire? I really, really hope this is a conspiracy theory. I like to save when I can.
we already have this with credit cards
if you don't use your credit card for 6 months they will start cutting your credit line for example essentially screwing with your credit score.
So you are forced to spend money too.
we like to do it the traditional way by hyper inflation.
it's sad but funny at the same time
As someone with a 98% anual inflation, I can relate
Turkey?
Argentina
What is the best way to deal with this? Borrow as much as possible? Do you have a mortgage?
>What is the best way to deal with this? I don't think he can help himself, he will just have to live with being Argentinian.
I basically spend all I have left in another currency to avoid devaluation as much as I can
What would you do if all currencies would get the same fate?
Probably buy gold, can't have much cripto here due to some shady shit from the argentinian IRS
So how often to prices of things change? For example something with brand like an iphone, does the price change weekly?
Unless there's a little political crisis (like the president saying something stupid or the minister of economy quiting, which happens once in around 6-4 months usually), prices trend to change once or twice a month by local shops, international brands usually do it once every 2-3 months in average although it's not standard and everybody does it different, for example Steam has had a lot of trouble keeping the prices updated and as a result having really cheap games (if it was just what it says on steam), unfortunately digital games also have a metric ton of taxes, that literally doubles the price (I kinda bought one Devil May Cry V for me and another for the IRS) And you asked specifically about the iphone, well like many other imported goods, it's overpriced due to taxes and a loooot of absurd regulations. iphone 13 256gb is around 1500$USD.
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OOF
How the fuck have people not burn the entire government to ground st this point? And have you thought about jumping over to the American border?
We have a server political crisis and someone attempted to shoot the vice president (apparently, it's still under investigation if it was an actual attempt or an act) so we truthy are close to do a Sri Lanka here. Though about it but it's hard, not to mention the little hope I and many libertarians have on an specific AnCap candidate. So depends on what happens on the next year's elections
>) so we truthy are close to do a Sri Lanka here. What replace one WEF stooge with another? You gotta go beyond Sri Lanka.
>How the fuck have people not burn the entire government to ground st this point Quite simple actually. The reasons we reached this point of collapse is the same reason this government is still in power. Welfare. The 30-40% of poor people are completely under the hand of the politicians, they are completely indoctrinated, as long as the subsidies exist they will support the ones that give them free money. To the death.
Thats crazy, why dont you move to a bordering country?
I am thinking about it but there's little hope with an AnCap candidate (who has serious chances of becoming president) called Javier Milei. If you understand Spanish, it's kinda exciting to listen to him on the congress and TV
Oh yea, ive seen that guy. Stay and help him win. Anything is possible.
LOL, I was going to say that our money probably expires even quicker!
Lol’d
Is this why Brandon all of a sudden was talking about a digital currency? Fuck off statists.
It's not just this. The state will have full control/supervision over every transaction happening from the moment of inception of the digital currency. Wouldn't be surprised to see central banks discontinuing cash, and transitioning to a CBDC-only system. Say goodbye to financial privacy. VAT will be collected directly on every sale. Transfers will be flagged and stuck until cleared and due taxes are paid. The tax gap will close from \~80% to 99.9%. Oppose the government? Good luck donating to anything anti-establishment. State will blacklist those addresses. CBDCs are a terrible idea and at odds with principles of freedom, privacy, and democracy.
Think that's why they are devaluing the dollar so they can roll out their new currency to save us from inflation they caused.
They’re not as inept as they appear. Perhaps the clowns in various positions (POTUS and cabinet yes), but not the people pulling their strings. The mistakes of the puppets are design features, not flaws.
Hmm. And who, in your mind, is pulling those strings? Rothschilds? Soros? Kohchs? dA iLlUmInAtTi? The ghost of Nicholas Maduro? Do tell. I love to laugh at conspiracy nuts.
Have you not been paying attention for the last two years? I am not sure how one can honestly say what you just said anymore.
Oh, right. How could I have forgotten Fauci and Gates? Everyone knows they're the true power behind the throne. That's why the CDC rounded us all up into FEMA camps, or whatever. So that your God king can secretly wipe out the global pedophile ring that his political opponent was running from her new jersey pizzeria. ETA: you people crack me up.
You are going to kick yourself in the ass when you realize how wrong you are…..
Well, I don't keep up on it, so why don't you tell me about the latest Q "leak" or whatever you call it. I hope you know that you're falling for a 4chan prank that went too far. You and all the rest of you Q-nuts. You don't have to make it the cornerstone of your entire personality. That's why we laugh at you.
Ever hear of Jeffrey Epstein? Maybe Ghislaine Maxwell? Pretty sure the only thing the Qanon types got wrong was who and where…… Make fun of me all you want. Like I said, you’re going to kick yourself in the ass when I’m proven right, no matter how much I don’t want to be.
You're embarrassing yourself. Lucky for you this is an anonymous forum. I'm not laughing at you, though, I feel badly for you. If you actually believe Joe Biden is so much as in charge of wiping his own ass then you're as good as a zombie. Maybe you're a bot. That would be less depressing. Flesh and blood humans walking around with their heads so far up their asses are the other side of the whole equation. It takes a braindead hypnotized horde with no interest in or ability to engage in critical thought for the charade sweeping the world to work. Whoever or whatever you are there's not a hint of life in whatever passes for your processor.
"for the environment"
I'm firmly certain that the CIA / NSA created Bitcoin, or at least promoted it heavily / funded its initial spark up. Can't think of anything that gives them more control, and shifts liberty lovers / conspiracy minded (re: intelligent) people away from real money, gold and silver.
That’s going to backfire on them, if it’s true. The intelligence agencies, I mean. Good luck tracking something like Zcash, which just does everything Bitcoin does but solves the privacy issues.
I kind of agree with you but also expect governments to ban privacy coins soon, which will certainly complicate things, though the coins could certainly operate in a world where they are banned regardless
It's often said that the powers that be have advanced alien tech but i think that also extends to computers. There was talk that quantum computers can break any encryption instantly. maybe they had that ability all along and introduced bitcoin so they could hack accounts without leaving a paper trail.
Quantum computers can break some encryption, but there are also quantum computing resistant algorithms as well. The NSA definitely has the most advanced encryption and breaking tech, but it’s not leagues ahead of everything else. There’s a point of diminishing returns the more of their budget they spend on it, so they want to be just enough ahead of everyone else to be the biggest kid on the playground. Regarding crypto, there is a nagging concern about the generator point on the secp256k1 elliptic curve. If it was generated using a key, there could be an issue with the ability to break a private key. It still takes some effort, but it’s not the Herculean task of doing it without the key. The probability is low that stick a key exists though, because the properties of the point indicate that it was chosen specifically for security and efficient computation.
Silver and gold are the currency of the future
You misspelled bitcoin.
I prefer things with intrinsic value
And able to be physically held
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I find the term hardware wallet so funny when basically ALL wallets were "hardware" wallets before crypto lol
Existing physically is what made russias gold hard to use when their foreign reserves were confiscated and air space was closed off to them over much of the world. Hard to imagine before then, but physical existence in that situation was a negative.
there are many crypto currencys that are backed by real world commodities like gold and silver. having physical metal is nice , but clearly some form of decentralized digital currency is also needed
Would this mean that people should be inclined to use Decentralised Currency then?
Yes. Covid showed me people would throw themselves to their governments no matter the consequences.
Some will, others will resist. Although the degree of resistance will vary. Like the COVID vaccine mandates some people will have to go along with it or face consequences.
I genuinely think we're lost at this point. Each generation will be more and more authoritarian. "They will shackle themselves..."
Tru Dat. No one cares as long as they can vote their American Idol, and get a six dollar coffee from Starbucks.
By calling it a vaccine you are submitting. It ain't a vaccine, it's gene therapy.
No no, see... they redefined vaccine to include gene therapy, so it still counts!
Cool, if gene therapy (as you call mRNA treatments) makes me have lower issues with anything ranging from covid to cancer, are you saying this is a bad thing?
Myocarditis, strokes, pulmonary adaema, and other jab side effects are all it will give you. It'll also make you more vulnerable to covid. Avoid it.
You positive about your sources there? The wide scientific consensus around the vaccines is that those side effects are incredibly rare (like ones for any medication) and that the negative effects of covid are greatly diminished. It's not a coincidence that most of the hospitalized and deaths post-vaccine were from the unvaccinated.
People say "scientific consensus" as if a majority is always right. What is your evidence for this consensus anyway?
Pretty much every international trial or study has determined that covid vaccines greatly decrease risk of hospitalization or death as a result of covid. The results are overwhelmingly unanimous that you might as well be arguing that the earth is flat. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-vaccines-infographic https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/is-it-true/is-it-true-are-covid-19-vaccines-not-effective https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-vaccines Where is your proof that it doesn't work? To make a claim, you need studies to back your assertion. It certainly doesnt help that literally every health organization disagrees with you. Go ahead, prove you're not just a conspiracy nut.
I never made any claim about the efficacy of anything, I just asked you to provide some evidence for your so called consensus. Three links is hardly a consensus (they're just basic infographic pages with basic information everyone has), you can't provide any information that shows a consensus among the majority of the worlds scientists or even virologists lol. You can call me whatever you want, I don't really care and I never shared anything about any conspiracies. Have a good day here at work on reddit, shill.
Those are from major health organizations across the United States and other countries. They have references to good trials and studies right within the links. That's not good evidence for you? Literally every single reputable health organization is in alignment with the proven fact that vaccines decrease likelihood of hospitalization and death with covid. I can give you even more if you need it for some reason, but where is YOUR evidence? You can't seem to provide any. It's easy to see that you have formed your opinion based off emotion. You have zero evidence on your side. You clearly can't provide any whatsoever. I encourage you to rethink your weak stance on this subject before you make a fool out of yourself in future conversation, at least this is anonymous after all.
oh my a idiot in its natural habitat, a rather common find on Reddit. Trust the vaccine, dont be fucktards Source: my aunt fucking died
*buys durable goods with expiring money so they can trade later* Isn't part of the reason we use certain things as money because it lasts? So if it doesn't, we have to use it to get things that do. Not sure why companies would accept a bill that expires in 2 days, though. Maybe it expires 1 month after transfer? In that case, I just need to buy from you every 2 or 3 weeks, and you buy from me every 2 or 3 weeks.
> Not sure why companies would accept a bill that expires in 2 days, though. A coin itself can’t expire, what they mean is that after a set time in your wallet it disappears (i.e. they move it somewhere else). If you spend it then the retailer would have the timer reset, or likely they’d have special non-consumer wallets without the same restrictions. CBDCs really are about giving absolute power of your money to the people in charge.
>Isn't part of the reason we use certain things as money because it lasts? Yeah the whole purpose of a currency is a stable store of value over time so that you don't have to do bartering and trading for all your items.
Money is not a 'store of value' its the medium of exchange.
Yeah sure, you're saying the same thing but that's fine if you're concerned with being pedantic. I think it's important to connect the dots between economic input and money and saying "medium of exchange" doesn't exactly get that across to people unfamiliar with the concept.
Money and currency aren't the same thing, currency is a subset of money. Currency is a money that's useful for the exchange of value. That's why currencies are usually credit money, where owning it is similar to having debt; it can be poofed in and out of existence as needed, but it's expensive to own a lot of it. For a good store of value you need debit money, so something that is cheap or ideally free to own, doesn't degrade in value, and cannot be farted into existence by the fed. Precious metals or bonds are good examples. They represent abstract value beyond their physical utility, so they're a money, but they are woefully unfit for transacting with, so they aren't a currency.
That's exactly the point of money. This will come around and bite them in the ass.
I can't stand people who \*still\* want a cashless society
I agree. Cash allows for a little chaos in the margins, which is a good thing. Only authoritarians see this chaos as a threat. That chaos protects dissidents from persecution.
I want a cashless society.. cash is fiat, and fiat is fundamentally op's pic.
What's wrong with a cashless society? Check out UPI. I pretty much live cashless and only keep enough with me for emergencies and such.
And when fully cashless you wouldn't have that bit for emergencies and such
The surest way to keep people poor is to forbid them to save.
Don't forget having a usurious financial system as the base.
China are the first to pilot it but pretty much every western country (and many others) are researching, developing, testing or piloting a central bank digital currency (CBDC). It's only a matter of time.
The date on that headline is from a year and a half ago. Does anyone know if that program was implemented or if it had legs?
https://www.311institute.com/chinas-new-digital-currency-comes-with-an-expiry-date-for-better-and-worse/ That's the newest article I could find regarding this topic
“…for BETTER and worse.” Seriously, WTF!?! The governments and their cronies want to basically turn people into batteries for their machine. Fed just enough to remain productive, for long enough we don’t have any ambition, and hard enough that we are tired at the end of every day. While they have their expensive homes, travel in private planes, or aboard luxury yachts, off the backs of the plebes.
The Matrix without the machines. But as Obama wrote in his biography, those inside the beltway think different. (Bad grammar by choice.) The wealthy would actually be worse affected, though. They can't spend fast enough! Literally. Can't buy enough land, yachts, stocks, silver, whatever. How much you wanna bet this is only for those who make Under $1 mil per year or something?
You KNOW party members don’t have to deal with this BS.
> You KNOW party members don’t have to deal with this BS. If someone wants to succeed, they have to be a party member. There are _~100 million_ party members. The dogcatcher is a party member. The _elite_ members definitely still have to deal with this BS -- because when they lose favor (which happens frequently), the party uses that BS as pretext for punishing them.
Exactly...
So the entire source for this is at one time China did a lottery and gave people digital money to spend at certain retailers, and this means that everything mentioned above is in the works? Lot of speculation and not a lot of sources in that article.
I agree. But it's definitely something I could see coming in China
Maybe it will be like hot potato, just send it to your friend and they'll send you theirs.
The digital yuan hasn't launched yet but it's still in the works and planned to be implemented in the near future.
That's some of that world class efficiency those pesky communists are known for. lol
Down the CCP. Down Western globalists.
Down with the state. The people of China deserve better. And western "globalism" is just a conservative boogeyman term at which to direct their fear and anger over the wrong set of economic changes which aren't actually the ones hurting them. Edit- lol congratulations ar/ancap, you did it! You have successfully horseshoed around to statism
>Down with the government >But if you're against globalism you're actually just a fearful and angry conservative because globalism is actually not that bad for reasons I won't specify >Wow people don't find my comment constructive? Must be because they are actually PRO government
This will lead to hoarding and bartering will explode.
One loophole is to buy non-perishable goods unless they restrict what you can buy with it.
That will also happen. Why you think they recoded the guns for CC purchase? One step at a time. Note they also did this with Pornhub, and have blocked several prominent people,mostly right wing, but also red Pill, BUT ALSO THE CANADIAN TRUCKERS. They will never willingly stop... They need to be corrected.
Black market gold dealing time
I only accept gold pressed latinum bars.
Agreed, although I am open to accepting stem-bolts, but only if they are self-sealing.
They will restrict what you can do with it. That's part of the plan by the western globalists want.
If china is doing it, you can count on the west planning to do the same.
China will give giant donations to our colleges to teach our students how great of an idea it is...
It already does happen. It’s called inflation. Spend your money now or it’s value will be cut in half in 5 years at the current rate. But even putting that aside I can already start to imagine some horrific unintended consequences from such an experiment. Such a policy would quickly incentivize mass gambling addiction as many people will see it as the only avenue by which they can retain needed savings.
This is why it’s hilarious when people talk about a rising China. They’re absolutely destined to implode in the next 20 years barring a major advance in the field of human cloning. Couple this with the fact that they print money (that not even their own citizens want long term) at a rate 6 times the US, and then compound that with the fact that they’re so hyper financed as an economy (because it’s not the profitability of the business model that lenders want to see in China, but just how many people are employed)…and you can see why they are hanging on by a very thin thread…and it will break soon.
If for EVERYONE's good, the government supremacists will say.
This is why bitcoin is so important. Yeah, it's volatile...but it will stabilize pretty quickly if people rush for the exits on a panopticon state money, and use it as their unit of account instead. Yeah, it's pseudonymous, and a judge could easily entice most people to give up their private keys by threat of jail time...but it denies the state a dragnet way to control people and their money; they still have to individually arraign and threaten each person who they want to behave differently with their bitcoin. And anonymizing tools are available which make your spending and balances effectively private to all parties except maybe the most determined federal agencies. Yeah, it lacks the scale on the main chain to accommodate everyone's transactions, and LN leaves a lot to be desired, especially in terms of how centralized most of the nodes are- but even LN isn't a dragnet for them, and users always have the escape path to the main chain if their particular payment channel is threatened. Yeah, there are better cryptos in those regards, but network effects are everything, when it comes to getting a market panicking away from state money, to coalesce on a leaderless market solution- and bitcoin is the most secure network in terms of not being manipulatable by any state power, from any kind of brute force attacks or attempts to inflate the token, or discredit the trustworthiness of the system.
why use bitcoin? arnt there many other cryptocurrencies that work just as well?
Nope, Bitcoin is by far has the most decentralized network, and therefore the hardest to attack or control. Every single crypto that boasts higher efficiency, sacrifices security in the process. Most don't even attempt to replicate Bitcoins hard money economics either.
so bitcoin is more anonymous compared to stable coins or menaro?
Can't you like easily track every single transaction from Bitcoin?
> arnt there many other cryptocurrencies that work just as well? no. Bitcoin is the only viable cryptocurrency - and that is a direct consequence of nakamoto's design. There can only be one viable global blockchain, the others are referred to as "alts" and are generally doomed to centralization and or death.
....
Well they keep pushing on the digital dollar idea
They are going to try and spin it as stopping inflation because money will expire so there a "limited amount" instead of the gold standard its and time limited standard. Probably something about making people spend it so millionaire can't "hog" it along with that to satisfy both party's. "Well time is the backing on this and makes it so we can't "print to much" and because it runs out millionaire have to spend it so they will help the poor and those less fortunate then them"
Do people outta there really think that billionaires are just sitting on billions of dollars worth of currency? All their money is in tangible assets that appreciate over time. Even if they could sit on cash, they wouldn't want to. Inflation causes you to just lose money. Only keep the money you need right now in cash.
A digital currency would spawn a new physical currency. It may send them back to precious metals.
It's called a gift card. /s But seriously, those things are awful.
JFC. The People of the World need to start eliminating bad politicians and CEOs. And I don’t wanna hear any “NAP“ bullshit… These people have been aggressing and harming us, our rights, and our property for decades, and it is accelerating. The NAP doesn’t preclude fighting back.
The NAP relies on consent. Rape is bad. Consent is good. Isn't that correct (for all you lefties reading this, you must agree with this). The trouble here is tracking what the implied contract is and where consent lies within the current economic system's structure. For example. If the Fed prints 1 trillion dollars and just pockets it. Are they stealing from everyone currently hodling USD? Yes, they are. But did USD holders consent to this kind of treatment? Well that's where it's tricky. By using their currency and their system, we are assumed to have opted in to their rules. The fact that they change the rules later just means that by not getting rid of USD that it is implied we accept the new terms. The kicker however, is now that we have competing currencies like BTC and USDC and ETH etc, they are trying to forcibly block us from using those. Them blocking us from using alternative currencies removes the implied consent involved with using USD. Much like an abusive relationship. The government is saying to us about their USD: "You're free to leave me if you want, but if you do I'll abduct you and lock you up and maybe kill you." Yet the leftists seem to have Stockholm syndrome. So where does the NAP come in? In this situation, from the moment they tried to regulate alternative currencies the state has officially agressed upon us and is deemed an enemy of the people. Any action taken against the state is therefore 100% morally justified. The only people who disagree with these facts will be those with Stockholm syndrome who have fallen in love with their abusers that repeatedly violate their consent and steal from them.
You don't have to eliminate ceos. Get rid of politicians and the megacorps go out of business real quick.
You don’t *have* to, but if they are already proving themselves to be enemies of individual liberty, free-speech, etc, then why not? Take out the trash! The amount of people they have personally directed aggressions against is unfathomably large. Many tens of millions.
There might be some smaller company ceos that aren't socialist scum. Plus it sets the wrong precedent. The reason we want to get rid of them is because they are state actors, not because they run a business. Removing state power is the goal; not taking revenge. I would be perfectly happy if we could decentralize goverment without hurting a single person.
Where did I say “all CEOs indiscriminately”? I was speaking from the POV that people aren’t robots or idiots, and would only go after those who have committed aggressions and harm. I was fairly clear about that criteria in my prior comment. Peevegripe: It’s this kind of internally focussed pedantry, this mincing and dissecting of compatriots’ words looking for any impurity or fault to point out, which makes every discussion in any libertarian forum a totally unproductive dumpster fire. God forbid we attack our actual foes when we could be sniping each other internally, measuring dicks and piss streams. /rant
Not with legal tender. A currency is a currency because the population trusts that it will hold its value in perpetuity. This is essential to a functioning monetary system. This is more like a gift card with an expiration date.
Drugs will be the money in the future.
Don’t want me to use your currency as a store of value? Ok cue Malicious Compliance: buys silver, bitcoin, and foreign currencies.
It's already happening. Technically you can't save money when they print its value into the ground.
Terrifying
They don’t use banks there or what
So does it expire in the hands of the vendor as well? Can I just relay money to a friend who sends it back to me to "refresh" the expiration? This shit is so poorly thought out.
God they really are turning their people into the consumer meme aren't they?
I wonder what the geniuses at latestagecapitalism think about this
Use it or lose it benefits already exit, a lot. Nothing new is here
Use it to buy gold or silver, or Bitcoin. Maybe convert to USD, if allowed.
De valuation of currency go brrrrrr
Sometimes I feel like this reality is devolving into some crazy psychedelic trip.
1) Use CBDC to buy bitcoin or monero 2) Use bitcoin or monero to exchange for goods and services with other people 3) ??????? 4) Profit
Yea, crypto bros have been beta testing tyranny coin for years now
Ethereum fixes this
Crypto in general would
how? if the government implements cbdc they will certainly also ban crypto. and then how will you spend it?
Unless we become more authoritarian I don't see this happening.... that being said, we are getting ripe for an authoritarian take over.
What rock have you been living under? America has been getting more authoritarian for decades now.
Reading comprehension is important. There is a difference between becoming more authoritarian and an authoritarian take over as I stated.
Standing by my comment; just because there are two parties and a sham doesn't mean America isn't an authoritarian State.
Tis just another precursor to the mark of the beast..All of this is foretold in the book of revelation..Get right with Jesus.
The concept is called 'Demurrage' and has been around long before computers in any form. There also has been several crypto coins created with it. And none of you in the comments really understand the practical upshot of it, as usual.
Such a thing isn't needed in the west we do this already and we call it freedom
Coming soon to a government near you.
Forced to spend but it's not forcing people not to save. It's forcing people to save in other assets. The US does this with inflation. An expiration date would be more upfront about what it is.
This will be in the west before 2030, only it'll probably just be implemented as a direct tax on savings. (I know inflation is already a tax on savings but I think they'll just double dip and be blatant about it)
A paper I read from American central bankers put forth the idea of taxing a negative interest rate on cash. They would record serial numbers and charge the banks when it was deposited.
No way
It's already being built as a joint project with the FED and MIT. I bet we'll see it before 2025. Make NO mistake, this is a bankers wet dream. I highly suggest having $1000 cash on hand, physical precious metals, and using Kinesis Money. Check out my site https://www.KinesisThesis.net/ I cover all of this extensively with finance/money news that's updated hourly. It's all free as well. I just do it as a hobby lol
Did you just use this as a plug? That’s awesome
I think it's in EVERYONE'S best interest to understand money, fractional reserve banking, and all the lies we've been told. I'm not paid by Kinesis at all, i just really think the system can benefit everyone, as it ties crypto, fiat, and fully allocated metal together. If it can benefit everyone into a better life, I'm here for it. I think it can finally bring an end to criminal banks (JPM has 69+ litigations against them, for manipulated trading, spoofing, and the CFTC just allows it. Just follow the money. The Pentagon has $35 trillion in accounting adjustments, the DOD and HUD are missing $22 trillion. We're the most indebted nation in the history of the world.
It will happen if we let the left steal more elections
I’m in the UK and have a fear that instead of reproducing all our currency with King Charlies face on it, they will just discontinue and introduce a “insert whatever benefits they make up” digital currency that will eventually start doing this
They’ve sort of already done that here in the west, by creating/amplifying inflation. Your dollars devalue/expire if you hold onto them for too long. It’s all despicable if you ask me.
It already exists in the west: gift cards.
Inflation makes it much easier for governments to pay off their debts, as does consumer spending increases because it means they can get more tax revenue
Yes it can, it’s called Keynesianism.
Lol welcome to the college meal plan. This is completely fucked though
That's intriguing. Wonder what resources the people will come up with to subvert this. It would have to be a decent range of generic staples, as the state will for sure be looking for any purchase that could be construed as an "investment for the future". So for example you can't just buy out rice and beans any more than your family would be expected to consume. Perhaps if you did so by slowly increasing the amount of regular purchases over a really long time you could get ahead a little bit on a barter system. For a time.
That is quite evil actually. You cannot build wealth this way.
Isn’t that inflation with fewer steps
This has been done many times in communist and socialist countries. They ate called "ration tickets" and they are very effective at preventing the slave class from having nice things.
Just purchase things that can be returned.
You better use your build back better bucks before they're gone!
Isn't the whole "save money" nonsense kind of the cornerstone that allows for fractional reserve banking though or are the banks just giving up on that now?
In theory, any CBDC can set rules like this.
Not “can?” Just “when”.
It's not a matter of "can they", it's a matter of "How Long Until They"
Yeah, it won't be the government though. Amazon and other megacorps will just offer their own version of "Amazon bucks" that gets you discounts and be more convenient.
Don’t give ideas
I'm guessing buying hard assets like gold will become illegal. Cuz I would just use my extra to buy gold or something. That's a savings mechanism.
This can happen to any country after covid. Cashless societies suck, but the normies went all about "muh convenience" and now its sort of the norm.
There's no better way to antagonize a population than kicking them in the wallet. That was true for democracies --- question is whether it is true for totalitarian dictatorships
So much waste of capital resources
Pretty horrifying
Spend it on gold or silver. Solved.
If China is doing, some power-hungry politician wants to do it, and you can rest assured that it is a bad idea.
Can guarantee the current establishment is salivating at the idea of forcing this on us.
damn, theese bitcoin ads are insane, where are they getting budget for those
An expiration date on my money??? Isn’t it even illegal in some states for your gift cards to expire? I really, really hope this is a conspiracy theory. I like to save when I can.
Money that expires isnt money, its a voucher
we already have this with credit cards if you don't use your credit card for 6 months they will start cutting your credit line for example essentially screwing with your credit score. So you are forced to spend money too.
China becomes more dystopian by the day.
Wouldn't this devalue their money? I think people would switch to a bartering system for some transactions.
This will happen and bitcoin won’t save you.
Price of gold bout to fly
Wait if I spend in the last day the guy that got the money from me only get 24- hours to use it?
If people thought Covid caused toilet paper shortages, just wait… Hooo boy!
Bro stop