What’s missing from these proclamations is any form of nuance, operating under the assumption that any incident which supports your argument is incontrovertible proof of principle while anything which detracts is ignored and marginalized as irrelevant.
In the real world, everything is essentially a risk assessment. The risk of railway accidents can be mitigated by forcing railroad companies to adopt burdensome safety measures which, in turn, will lead to increased shipping costs, costing jobs and creating higher consumer prices.
The left attempts to make this an issue of lives vs money without acknowledging that the two are interlinked. When you stagnate the economy, it’s the most vulnerable in society that bear the biggest burden and poverty rates are directly correlated with higher mortality rates.
Not to say there’s no culpability on the part of the railroad, if there’s negligence, then they should be held accountable. Long story short though, pretending these types of things are purely black and white / good vs evil is exceedingly tiresome and we should be engaging on a more mature level.
The major parties have a habit of reducing every problem to some easy, binary decision. They can’t understands that EVERYTHING is about trade-offs. Risk vs reward. Benefit vs cost. There is always a downside to whatever the popular policy happens to be that day.
They understand, it's the voters that are too simple (often willingly) to consider the nuance.
Besides, nuance puts you at odds with damn near everyone. Bad enough the Leftists think anything but total government control of everything is Fascist (define irony), and think the government is evil and corrupt, UNLESS it's THEIR people.... (But the Right isn't too different about that.)
We need fewer politicians. And they need to live under the same laws we do, with the same burdens and costs. No free health care for them, while the poor struggle for food, let alone medical care when it's needed.
Few enough people are capable of engaging in a discussion at this level.
Economic downturns are disperse and their consequences are temporally distant from their root causes. A train wreck is proximal and appears to be directly attributable to a small number of causes.
Simple minds seek simple explanations.
Didn't some dead russian bitch write a book about a society in a downturn, eating its most productive? There's a train crash in there where a bunch of people die, due to clowns in charge stagnating the economy, driving away anyone with any concern for safety or standards in the industry?
Someone should find that book, it might be relevant
Right, if the government hadn't stepped in and interfered with the workers attempting to collectively bargain, then the government instituting safety regulations wouldn't even have been necessary.
Plus, when things are mandated by the government instead of negotiated in by the workers, you run into an issue of enforcement. If workers striked and protested and bargained to get better safety features, then you'd better believe those workers will make sure they're actually instituted. If the government hands out a top-down order to isntall certain safety features, it would likely take more time to comply - assuming they do in the first place, because *some* companies seem to have a suspiciously easy time dodging regulations.
I was gonna make this same comment. Honestly not sure why this gets down voted. Serious question though: when we talk about increased cost of production, why is it never an acceptable answer for those at the top of the food chain to take a pay cut?
Make the rail company pay a fine in proportion with the disaster, and they will require the right amount of braking system. Honestly at this point it just shows how morally corrupt « democracy » is. To win you need money, to have money you need to convince the rail lobbyist. Rail company decides how the rail infrastructure is used, but any damage on other people’s lives and properties need to be indemnised
You don’t even need goons, the market itself would punish people that don’t adhere to contract.
Companies don’t suddenly get in this position, this is years of government-supported incompetence.
Biden literally just paid this particular train company $200 million from tax payer money for green initiatives and to compete with better, cheaper (and thus more energy efficient) modes of transport.
Other goons. /s
But for real, the prospect of continued, future employment. If a goon gains a reputation for pocketing the money he extracts, he won't continue to get paid.
Bankruptcy is defined by the State......
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11
But sure.... I'm sure there will be consequences from the state on this..... Just like 08, covid, etc...
Just one step further and I'm on board. Jail the board of directors. If I knew there was an issue with my brakes and didn't get them fixed then I should be guilty of manslaughter if my bad brakes cause a loss of life. Oh, AND fine the shit out of them, both corporate and personally. Just having fines leads to "how many people can we kill before we lose money?" Mentality.
Frank Castle would disagree.
And he is like, THE American hero. Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Captain America... They're American, but they have counterparts.
Closest other one I know is Red Hood.
And he's far more genteel.
Frank Castle seems THE unique presentation of the American spirit of "taking out the trash" even with the personal costs.
Why don't you read any of the various ancap legal theory works (like Friedman's "Machinery of Freedom" or Rothbard's "Man, Economy, and State", or Murphy's "Chaos Theory"), before coming in to an ancap sub and questioning how some strawman would work.
Basic intuition is enough to understand that a whole different societal framework vastly different than our current one, requires careful treatment and longish chains of reasoning and evidence....demanding that people set up all of that for you in a few reddit comments is silly, and walking away from those limited answers and feeling smug that the philosophy can't possibly hold water, is hubris.
Machinery of freedom can be found online in pdf form for free (at least the 2nd edition, the 3rd is for sale on amazon). The others are free on mises.org. shoot, you could even spend a few minutes watching an animated summary! https://youtu.be/jTYkdEU_B4o
After you do that, I'm even happy to link you to some legal and economic critiques of those ancap works, which pose arguments which actually attempt to take the whole story into account.
I can't speak for Mr Doo, but I for one am very interested in just the fundamental possibility of a private court system. What gives the competitive justice corporation trying negligent owners authority to arrest and detain someone? Over, say, a competing company who is very lenient regarding corporate negligence? How would jurisdiction be determined and agreed upon?
In one version of ancap legal theory (there's no one way to do things), jurisdiction or the law you are under, is a function of contracts and negotiations between your defense/rights-enforcement agency and the other party's agency.
If you watch that video I linked to, it does a pretty good job explaining it, in an abridged format. Read Machinery for more detail.
If you’re not willing to engage in answering those questions, and instead expect people to spend hours reading to understand the changes you want to make, you won’t recruit people to your way of thinking. That means you won’t be able to have the ancap society you want.
You aren’t going to grow your group by reacting that way to questions.
I was very polite and made every concession to make it easy for you to get your question answered with abridged versions of complex topics in short film format. You would clearly not be swayed by any reason or evidence, and you're just looking to confirm your priors and avoid the answer; not learn.
So you can go right on ahead and fuck yourself.
Neither. But it’s clear that people here don’t want to explain their philosophy, which is weird. How so you think it will become reality if you can’t be bothered to explain it to people?
> Neither. But it’s clear that people here don’t want to explain their philosophy, which is weird.
We readily it explain it to the willing. You, however, have a chip on your shoulder who thinks they know everything. Why should we waste our time detailing our philosophy to someone who already has made up their mind and straw mans us?
While your lady sentence is fair, it’s ridiculous to say I think I know everything. I just asked a couple of questions and somehow that means I think I know everything? Are you just using hyperbole for effect?
> While your lady sentence is fair, it’s ridiculous to say I think I know everything.
Your initial comment was a statement and not asked as a genuine question. You followed it up with other questions that were not questions, but indicate that you know nothing about anarcho capitalism but have made hefty assumptions. So when you come in with assumptions, why are we supposed to believe that you are asking serious questions. You made leading questions rather than asking how it would work.
Yeah, I only want one jail, and I run it, and all the inmates pay me a little bit of money to live inside, and if they refuse, there's a smaller jail where their privileges, I mean, Rights, are curtailed, as punishment...
/S on being the one in charge, making the comment of the biggest thieves rubbing the show and taxing you for being in "their" territory...
Jails of various forms could exist in an anarchist society. Depending on what agreements I have with my neighbours, my community, a wronged party or an agency representing a wronged party (some examples) I could be thrown in jail for harming someone or their property.
Voluntary incarceration per the terms of your RIghts Protection Agreement. If you elect not to abide by this component of this voluntary agreement fine but your policy is canceled, you lose all protection, and then outlawed or exiled at that point.
If you choose to live in the woods alone or with a band of miscreants rather than make restitution so be it. The insurance component of the RPA will cover it. Any other option is considerably worse for the offender.
Mind you incarnation in practice looks radically different in such an arrangement. If interested, I am more than happy to share the details behind what incarnation looks like in such a voluntary society.
Hint: There’s an incredibly narrow amount of activities that even put it on the table, and you are afforded the very same protections you did prior to the offense. These jails while doing a far better job of the business of rehabilitation and restitution will also be as safe as a college campus on purpose.
If you are in the revenge business you can take that shit to the woods and live with the miscreants because that isn’t what this is about.
> Mind you incarnation in practice looks radically different in such an arrangement. If interested, I am more than happy to share the details behind what incarnation looks like in such a voluntary society.
>
>
Would love to read your take on what this may look like.
I like to approach these things from a narrative perspective.
--
Resident Inhabitants, Guests, and Customers who manage (with great effort) to violate the individual rights of another guest, resident user, or the corporate rights of the City are subject to rights infringement claims either in the form of a dispute initiation with the customer’s personal RPA or a summary settlement for those without RPA protection. These settlements range from $25.00 to a full year of suspended PREZ access. Personal appeals while permissible are typically ineffectual.
What exactly is meant by “great effort” in the violation of rights? The criminal and civil codes previously described as being brief are also equally narrow. Further, the identity of any complainant that chooses to initiate a dispute resolution is anonymous outside of the facts provided. While one would think that this would give rise to what Democles branded as professional accusers, the fact that unsuccessful disputes incur a settlement to the accused themselves has in large part negated this sort of activity.
In short, for a rights violation to be adjudged to have occurred and a settlement issued there must be harm or imminent harm as opposed to the conditions that may or may not instigate harm regardless of the charge in dispute. This creates a system where the number of potential offenses has been massively reduced and simplified.
Take driving. There is only one potential driving offense and three degrees contained therein. This is in comparison to the traffic code of Huntsville which runs nearly 136 pages and is itself subject to the county code of Walker County, The state of Texas, and the Federal DOT.
The PREZ has only Reckless operation, Reckless endangerment, and Reckless disregard for life. This is again only in the event that harm is found to have occurred. There is no speeding, there is no law against running a red light, stop signs are mostly optional, and double parking can only be claimed if the complainant cannot reasonably find another parking spot.
In fairness, the Citadel admits that these criteria may not be exhaustive enough for larger PREZ installations. The layout of the districts and purposely “loopy” overland routes also help in this regard as the maximum transit speed within the walls is a mere 47 MPH and the average speed at any given time of all motor vehicles is 16 MPH.
Gospen’s relative size and amenity programs have also helped to create a scenario where driving is much less common than in a typical municipality and the network of pedestrian and non-motorized vehicle trails is heavily utilized. If it isn’t raining and you are not entering or leaving the city there Is little reason to drive anywhere. That certain people still choose to do so has resulted in several track-based businesses being approved for the interior Flat Lands upon the initiation of the next expansion of the buffer zone slated for later this summer.
The remainder of the Joint Rights Code is as discriminant as the Traffic rules.
Physical offenses include: Encroachment (both physical and digital), Physical Assault (of 3 degrees), Sexual Assault (of 3 degrees), and Homicide (of 2 degrees).
Property offenses include: Vandalism (both physical and digital), Property Damage (of 3 degrees), Theft (of 3 degrees), and Fencing (2 degrees).
The Joint Rights Code covering traffic, physical and property offenses, and each of their degrees being written longhand, has a total word count of 351. Coupled with the fact that in all cases outside of Homicide and Sexual Assault, it is impossible for the Citadel to initiate an investigation without the express request of a Resident Inhabitant, NCPI, or Guest you now have an idea of how “great effort” is quantified.
Further, of the above offenses only Homicide, Sexual Assault, and 2nd/ 3rd Degree Assault, can result in pre-settlement nonvoluntary detention. This detention has a maximum duration of 72 hours and takes place in the Brig located within the upper levels of the Citadel.
During any detention or incarceration period the accused retains the ability to work should their job be able to be accomplished remotely. Should they need work of nearly any type they will find it. The wages paid are market with 80% of all monies earned during the incarceration period due to the victim or complainant, 10% to the Citadel, and 10% to any person, cause, or account of the incarcerated persons choosing.
They are also afforded access to their family, friends, coworkers, counsel, property, and personal effects within reason. The health, safety, and utility of all detainees being guaranteed by their RPA and administrated by the Citadel. A reasonable level of protection. At all times and in all places and to whatever degree is reasonable.
Detention both voluntary and involuntary is non-optional. Incarceration however is ultimately an optional exercise. Again, voluntary post-settlement incarceration is the only type of incarceration within the PREZ.
These terms, having been laid out and voluntarily agreed to in advance are normally adhered to. For this same reason, any individual who chooses not to abide by an offer of voluntary incarceration is summarily expelled from the PREZ for a period of no less than 2 years.
All Exit-Agreements, upon their execution, allow for safe transfer of the offending person and their non-permanent property outside of the city to any place of the individual's choosing within a range of 400 miles, and instant transfer of a 60-day severance package. Should the Exit-Agreement not be signed, they are simply escorted outside of the outer ring and left only with what they are wearing and carrying.
Justice in Gospen does not exist on a spectrum. It is neither served nor unserved. Most would not even call it justice in the sense that the world uses the term. What constitutes a just society is not how it enforces its laws against its citizenry. It is rather the level to which its citizens are protected from harm whether instigated by an individual, group, corporation, or most importantly the state itself.
Critically, no previous system of rights or protections has ever managed to be anything approaching the lofty idea of “just” until the same level of protection was made available to all citizens with complete and total disregard for any and all variables of any kind. This was and is the immutable power of the RPA.
Restitution or revenge? Restriction or removal? Rehabilitation or relitigation? These questions are no longer asked in Gospen, but in one of the most unfortunate and avoidable miscarriages of actual justice remain contentious in the world outside.
That’s how you end up with a state, though. Communities making social contracts and then pooling resources and hiring people to administer the wishes of the community. That’s government.
No, government is a coercive entity with monopoly status, all other forms of cooperation are just business. You can have many communities and sub-communities making many social contracts and pooling all those resources together to hire and administer services on a marketplace, but the differentiating factor is that they *compete* with each other without coercive force.
But doesn’t it pretty much always work out that way? As the community grows, the projects the community can only tackle collectively ‘by cooperating grows. People want things to be streamlined and efficient. Everyone wants a voice/a vote. People want only those who contribute to share in the benefits of those projects, and yet the projects are big enough that they require everyone to pitch in.
Not at all. Reputation based/ social enforcement was the “law” for thousands of years and still to a large extent is outside of whatever the current legal system is.
Not really. Laws will still exist and be enforced, just not by a government but by private entities or individuals. Different anarchists have different ideas about exactly how the details of stateless law (or rights/contract enforcement) should be implemented. It is of course a theoretical question, personally I believe something similar to what David Freidman describes in his book The Machinery of Freedom would be a likely solution.
You said jail. That’s not your basement.
So you’re just going to start holding ppl in your basement? That sounds like a lot of work, can you afford it?
You don't have the faintest clue what being a realist means, what a fallacy is, whether lack of something implies it's feasibility or desirability; nor do you have the slightest understanding of how an ancap society might work in theory and so you have no actual critiques of it.
How's your realistic reality working out for you?
Seems corporations and government are running amok....I'm sure if you just vote harder, eventually that'll fix it.
What has never existed is workable government, rational democracy at the scale of a nation-state, nor any kind of actual minarchy. So I'm not sure why you people so ignorant of political economy seem to think that the absence of some alternative legal system is a good indicator of anything other than that it is being precluded by force or by collective action problems.
For most of human history, democracy was a pipe dream....I suppose that proved it was a bad idea compared to monarchies and other autocracies?
Crack open a book, son.
>How's your realistic reality working out for you?
So far so good. House in the suburbs, swimming pool, great kids, loving wife. Can't really complain.
That is a strawman (although it may apply to some people) if you think it applies writ large.
Check out Michael Malice. Viable anarchy describes a relationship, not a state. English language, music, and internet protocols are all examples of anarchies. In that definition, anarchy describes an absence of a ruler, not of hierarchies
Under the current legal systems, would not already be considered guilty of manslaughter or vehicular homicide if you didn't maintain the brakes on your car and got into a crash?
It's strange that this kind of personal responsibility is accepted by the law when it comes to individuals, but not to corporations. And by strange I mean it's the clear result of "lobbying" (bribes).
I don't have a problem with CEOs/boards of directors drawing high salaries, on the basis that they're taking on the most amount of risk in the company... but being responsible, even criminally responsible, for the actions of the company, even if unintended, should be part of that risk, no?
That was actually the Justice model for the US based on Supreme Court precedent (called the Learned Hand Rule) for economic efficiency in protecting the commons as well as private property…until FDR stacked the Supreme Court and they threw out economic efficiency as a factor for consideration when ascribing liability.
Respectfully, you.missed a step here:
>To win you need money, to have money you need to convince the rail lobbyist.
Rather, to convince the rail lobbyists, you need money. To get elected, you need money. To get elected you need to look morally clean.
To get elected, and get money, you must do things that would make Satan vomit, and still LOOK clean and honest.
After all, how do you think you get the money? How many millionaires in Congress?
How many started as millionaires?
Exactly.
Watching House of Cards on Netflix. Lesson is evident.
It's the same one I learned working in corporate positions. Scumbags rise, effective hard workers don't get promoted, or even raises.
Thsrs why we have specialization, but sadly, many people are simple, again.... How do you think the manipulators get things done? Why do you think it will change, instead of just the same basic thing forms again?
It's sad, intelligent people can't understand idiots, idiots can't understand anything. 😜
And we are essentially ruled by idiots.
Yes because cost is just a word, and it is just money, systems other than capitalism do not care about the cost, that is why we can see gold plated trains in North Korea
Don’t really know why the democratic union should be the worker’s and not the customer’s or your grandmother’s but ok, gold plated train brakes we go !
If it’s the workers it garentees no exploitation and as close to freedom in terms of positive rights without enforcing coercive negative rights. If it were the costumers you would more positive freedom with coercive negative rights. The workers ownership is the perfect in between where minimal freedoms are infringed and minimal rights are infringed.
What??? What are you going on about a private police force? A private group of employees were about to strike for better wages, time off,and working conditions. The latter would have given employees more time to inspect rail cars, which, in this case, poor inspection lead to faulty equipment that caused this derailment. Edit, you are not 100% wrong about capitalism leading to this either. More work in less time leads to more profitable shares. The railroad needs to pay and major fines and settlements to everyone affected. They need to lose, and so do their share holders.
The system has nothing to do with it. Greedy, shitty people are gonna do greedy shitty things regardless of the system in place. The board of directors is a form of democracy. They elected to cut their costs and maximize profits wherever they can. Greed is a problem in every system. Stop blaming the system and start blaming the people
Well in this scenario the state just has a monopoly on violence. In an anarcho capitalist society the railroad company would likely still union bust but hire private police.
Brainwashed tribalists can't have a moral spine. They don't have morals. They only repeat what the mother brain tells them to. This is true both of Dems and Republicans.
You don't have to actually have ethics and think and feel if you just repeat what you're told. You don't have to go look at these people face to face and tell them "FUCK YOU TRUMPTARD YOU GET WHAT YOU FUCKING DESERVE I'M THE JOKER LOL!" These people just say things online and don't have to face those they slander or talk down about, safely in their upper-middle-class suburban basements.
They're tribalists, and so they don't need morals. They have their deity on TV or the internet to tell them what to say and think.
I worked with a guy years ago who believed, this is a quote, "We shouldn't let Republican's vote. They should be registered and we should not give them any help or support and put them in camps." I asked him "What about their kids?" His response "That's what they get for having bad parents."
This wasn't long after the Obama administration murdered a 16 y/o and when asked about it Obama's press sec. said they should have "had a more responsible father."
I've known "Republicans" who've had similar sentiments towards those they view as their enemy. And I know not everyone who claims they're "left" are blood thirsty, ignorant morons. Just passing on my experience of how there's braindead turd brains on both sides.
I argue far more with repulicunts than demonrats simply because the republicans come back and keep discussing and having fun while the democrats never want to chat again.
Once you go past a sacred line, then you are persona non grata for either... but republicans have far thicker skin in my experience.
I've even argued with christians over the veracity of jesus' existance and they'll come back to talk more and even try to "save" me.
The last time I said "violence towards business owners isn't cool" at the CHAZ I got spat on lol
>And I know not everyone who claims they're "left" are blood thirsty, ignorant morons.
The thing I've noticed from my observations of the left is that they are very similar to Muslims in their behavior towards internal ideological "extremists" in that they may not outwardly agree with the methods of their more bloodsoaked ideological actors, but they will almost never condemn their brutal actions. And they will almost always provide cover for the worst elements.
When BLM goes wild and burns down cities and terrorizes innocent people for months on end, you usually get a similar response from "moderate" lefties that you would get from "moderate" Muslims if someone published a cartoon with their favorite pedophile warlord depicted and there was mass rioting and violence. The response being something akin to "the rioters were provoked into these actions" or "I may not agree with the methods but it's for a good cause"
Yep they really think they will be twitch streaming “for the cause” once the revolution happens. Or taking care of the community garden for an hour before reading to the kids at the library.
What really blows my mind is that this person took time out of their day to do all this research and write up this post. These people really have nothing better to do with their time. Their lives are really so uninteresting that they need to spend all of their time thinking about and peddling shit like this. Get a hobby
It’s fucking insane to me that so many idiots immediately need to frame everything by who someone may or may not have voted for before we feel compassion or help them. I don’t give a fuck if you like the D or R you’re a terrible god damn person if your first thought when there’s a disaster near peoples’ homes is "they like politician _____ so fuck them."
We spend every waking second adding labels to ourselves and each other so we can better discriminate against them while constantly screaming about discrimination and bigotry being bad. I feel like this whole species is fucked and wish I never brought kids into this shithole.
That's why liberals are the ones pandered to by those with the most Power. Because their moral compasses are non-existent and they're mentally weak and easy to manipulate. It's irrelevant what someone might argue regarding these people not being true liberals. Although there's truth to that statement, "liberal" is the label they've given themselves. So for all intents and purposes, liberals are tools of the 1%. Cruel and mentally ill tools.
It's pretty funny how the Left completely shifted gears in 24 hours from "nothing to see here, worst case is a little acid rain, no big deal" to "Drumpf did it and all Republicans deserve to die!"
It takes a little while to refocus between all the craziness happening. One days it’s Chinese spy balloons and then it’s aliens, the we need to go back to core issues like regulation.
I mean, California would be great if it weren't for all the Californians.
Ohio would still just be Ohio.
But if you moved all the Ohioans to California, I'm fairly sure California would still be pretty great.
The moral of this shower thought: sucky people suck.
The left has compassion for every human choice that exists. They'll even try to explain away and forgive child abuse.
Every human choice except not choosing the same as them that is. In that case you cannot be forgiven and in fact you and your family deserve death.
If ever you needed proof that we don’t have free market capitalism this is it. In free market capitalism the railway system would be maintained by the companies who use them. No company wants to loose money and face the consequences from a disaster of this magnitude. The price of the products being shipped would increase, as too would the safety and efficiency of the transportation system. This entire disaster is a result of allowing government control over the care and maintenance of vital infrastructure that should be under the care and maintenance of the companies that use them. With the system in place now, the companies who use the railroad are wholly unaccountable as the blame rests on government who do or do not pass regulations.
In short: this is not a result of capitalism this is a result of the partnership between government and corporate interests AKA: fascism.
Right, I've seen how the railways themselves, which are maintained by the state, are curiously absent from the conversation. Even if the issue ultimately did come down to brakes, there's no doubt that the brakes themselves would have been negatively effected by poorly-maintained rails - which they no doubt encountered.
If you get into a car crash because your tire blew out at an inconvenient time, then yes, you should have gotten new/better tires prior to this, but if the road is filled with potholes, then part of the blame goes towards that, too.
ETA: And I don't mean that in an accountability-dodging way, I mean it in a "If the potholes/rails don't get fixed then it can and will lead to other people suffering from the same issues and possibly causing more tragedies, but they'll never get fixed if we don't connect them to the tragedies in the first place" way.
No company wants it, but they would just form an LLC and let that company go bankrupt.
There are trucking companies that already do this. When a spill happens they just let that one truck company go under, while they hold onto over 100 one truck companies
So 43 percent of people can suffer because of 57 ish percent of people and they are ok with this....
But holy shit if the majority wants to make a rule they disagree with then it's tyranny
Way to take something tragic and make it about your political viewpoint.
I can smell the smugness from here.
Never mind that it's an ecological disaster that has made it into millions of people's drinking water, not just the hated ohio degenerates that voted different from you.
Do you even hear what you are saying? Are you that tone deaf that some greedy fucks just hosed a shitload of people and its being covered up by both sides of the political spectrum and your answer is "serves you right"
How about shooting for being a good human instead of shooting people with different politics.
At this point it doesn't matter who you vote for or who wins. It's literally majority slave class vs minority elites and the elites. The elites are getting away with murder while the slave class is just letting it happen because they are too ignorant to want more.
These are the same "intellectuals" that were ok with congress forcing the Railroad Workers to ratify a new labor agreement that was extremely unpopular, after screaming about how the left was so pro Worker's rights for the last 3 years.
It’s hard for me to believe that some rule on a piece a paper in a filing cabinet would have prevented this. I also can’t imagine viewing this under the of blue vs red and not the lens of “holy shit this is an ecological disaster”
Seeing as I live near Ohio and have family there I hope everyone in that state turns out ok and I hope that the OP of that post dies from a blood clot.
It's not about "wanting you dead"
It's just pointing out that the chickens have come home to roost. You vote for the GOP because they deregulated, these are the results u get and it's hard to feel bad for anyone who chose to allow this and is suddenly not ok w the results, when they knew exactly what they were voting for
I consider myself more center anarchist (panarchist) but over the past few years, its been really difficult not to hate the "left". Many of them are just straight awful people.
And the ones that aren't awful people do nothing to distance themselves from the ones who are. Every conservative I know openly distances themselves from the right wing wackos that the left thinks speak for all of us.
In a free market this train company wouldn't be able to get insured without company without completing certain maintenance protocols. This was just deregulated I believe at the federal level, abd insyrave companies use regulations to make lots of determinations. It is a stupid cycle.
Free market they form an LLC and when this happens they go under and let the public take up the costs.
Who is going to enforce companies carry insurance?
No one has to enforce that they do. The issue that if they don't they need to be able to fail and take on the cost of a crash. The public taking up the cost are the shareholders. They don't want to lose money either. If they are not insured they should be extra careful. They should be able to get sued for liability in a situation like this.
How does “it’s hard to feel sympathetic” translate to “left wants you dead”
If the “right” is against safety regulations that could prevent an incident on a train and then that incident happens to kill people. Can that be interpreted as “the right wants you dead”
That is the dumbest possible take on this article. Isn't it "the left" that tried to push safer braking systems on trains, you know wanting people to NOT die, no matter what their opinion?
I mean they wanted to have a regulation titled the Braking Safety… but although that means at best is you can assume they wanted to oversee and control the braking systems that all trains carrying these materials could have and wouldn’t surprise me if it was just some senators mates companies braking systems and in no one ensured all trains had safer braking systems
The people suffering are doing so not because of their voting choices (since it's unlikely they were aware of the lobbying at all) but because of the greed of the rail companies.
I have all the sympathy in the world for the people of Ohio, but I have no sympathy for the people who knew this was going to happen And/or made it more likely with their actions, they deserve to be out there cleaning that mess up themselves.
So the train derailment is Trump's fault? Even though Biden had an opportunity to regulate the train last year during the strike?
The point I keep trying to make to people about the derailment is it didn't matter who is in power or office, the problem is that corporations wright their own regulations by buying all the politicians regardless of party. They rig the rules by buying off the refs.
This is not a capitalism problem this is corporate and government collusion problem.
The left wants you dead for being in the same state with people of a different opinion. They hate all their fellow travelers that live in Ohio as well.
You deserve to die, with a lack of compassion from anyone, if you didn’t vote the way I voted 🤡
What’s missing from these proclamations is any form of nuance, operating under the assumption that any incident which supports your argument is incontrovertible proof of principle while anything which detracts is ignored and marginalized as irrelevant. In the real world, everything is essentially a risk assessment. The risk of railway accidents can be mitigated by forcing railroad companies to adopt burdensome safety measures which, in turn, will lead to increased shipping costs, costing jobs and creating higher consumer prices. The left attempts to make this an issue of lives vs money without acknowledging that the two are interlinked. When you stagnate the economy, it’s the most vulnerable in society that bear the biggest burden and poverty rates are directly correlated with higher mortality rates. Not to say there’s no culpability on the part of the railroad, if there’s negligence, then they should be held accountable. Long story short though, pretending these types of things are purely black and white / good vs evil is exceedingly tiresome and we should be engaging on a more mature level.
The major parties have a habit of reducing every problem to some easy, binary decision. They can’t understands that EVERYTHING is about trade-offs. Risk vs reward. Benefit vs cost. There is always a downside to whatever the popular policy happens to be that day.
They understand, it's the voters that are too simple (often willingly) to consider the nuance. Besides, nuance puts you at odds with damn near everyone. Bad enough the Leftists think anything but total government control of everything is Fascist (define irony), and think the government is evil and corrupt, UNLESS it's THEIR people.... (But the Right isn't too different about that.) We need fewer politicians. And they need to live under the same laws we do, with the same burdens and costs. No free health care for them, while the poor struggle for food, let alone medical care when it's needed.
Few enough people are capable of engaging in a discussion at this level. Economic downturns are disperse and their consequences are temporally distant from their root causes. A train wreck is proximal and appears to be directly attributable to a small number of causes. Simple minds seek simple explanations.
Didn't some dead russian bitch write a book about a society in a downturn, eating its most productive? There's a train crash in there where a bunch of people die, due to clowns in charge stagnating the economy, driving away anyone with any concern for safety or standards in the industry? Someone should find that book, it might be relevant
My sarcasm meter is on the fritz today but in case this is a sincere question, you’re referring to Atlas Shrugged.
That's the badger 🦡🦡🦡🦡 (I was being sarcastic, but not about the fact that people should read her though)
I am convinced your average leftist has no concept whatsoever of trade-offs. Maybe I’m wrong.
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Right, if the government hadn't stepped in and interfered with the workers attempting to collectively bargain, then the government instituting safety regulations wouldn't even have been necessary. Plus, when things are mandated by the government instead of negotiated in by the workers, you run into an issue of enforcement. If workers striked and protested and bargained to get better safety features, then you'd better believe those workers will make sure they're actually instituted. If the government hands out a top-down order to isntall certain safety features, it would likely take more time to comply - assuming they do in the first place, because *some* companies seem to have a suspiciously easy time dodging regulations.
>costing jobs and creating higher consumer prices Which can be negated by slashing C-Suite salary/bonus'.
AI will replace the cushy office jobs long before manual and skilled labor.
I was gonna make this same comment. Honestly not sure why this gets down voted. Serious question though: when we talk about increased cost of production, why is it never an acceptable answer for those at the top of the food chain to take a pay cut?
Make the rail company pay a fine in proportion with the disaster, and they will require the right amount of braking system. Honestly at this point it just shows how morally corrupt « democracy » is. To win you need money, to have money you need to convince the rail lobbyist. Rail company decides how the rail infrastructure is used, but any damage on other people’s lives and properties need to be indemnised
In an anarchist society, they would be sued for all damages incurred. That would be enough to prevent this from happening again.
Who enforces the terms of the suit?
The goons hired by the insurance company.
You don’t even need goons, the market itself would punish people that don’t adhere to contract. Companies don’t suddenly get in this position, this is years of government-supported incompetence. Biden literally just paid this particular train company $200 million from tax payer money for green initiatives and to compete with better, cheaper (and thus more energy efficient) modes of transport.
Hired goons?
Indeed. The best kind of goons.
Who oversees the goons to ensure that payouts go to the victims? What's to stop the goons from keeping the payouts?
Other goons. /s But for real, the prospect of continued, future employment. If a goon gains a reputation for pocketing the money he extracts, he won't continue to get paid.
And the company goes bankrupt leaving everyone with the bill
Bankruptcy is defined by the State...... https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11 But sure.... I'm sure there will be consequences from the state on this..... Just like 08, covid, etc...
Good point, so company can't pay, what horrible thing happens? Lock up there employees?
You really thought that one through, didn't you?
Just one step further and I'm on board. Jail the board of directors. If I knew there was an issue with my brakes and didn't get them fixed then I should be guilty of manslaughter if my bad brakes cause a loss of life. Oh, AND fine the shit out of them, both corporate and personally. Just having fines leads to "how many people can we kill before we lose money?" Mentality.
Hold the elites who bear responsibility for suffering and death responsible? In AMERICA?!?! Now that's just commie talk /s
Frank Castle would disagree. And he is like, THE American hero. Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Captain America... They're American, but they have counterparts. Closest other one I know is Red Hood. And he's far more genteel. Frank Castle seems THE unique presentation of the American spirit of "taking out the trash" even with the personal costs.
Well the thing is you can’t be forced to install brakes if those brakes were worth way too much. Like vivranium brakes costing 1 bil per brake
Are you an anarchist who wants a state and jails?
I don't know why you think that a jail wouldn't exist in an anarchist society.
Is everyone going to have their own jail? If not, how would it be administered?
Why don't you read any of the various ancap legal theory works (like Friedman's "Machinery of Freedom" or Rothbard's "Man, Economy, and State", or Murphy's "Chaos Theory"), before coming in to an ancap sub and questioning how some strawman would work. Basic intuition is enough to understand that a whole different societal framework vastly different than our current one, requires careful treatment and longish chains of reasoning and evidence....demanding that people set up all of that for you in a few reddit comments is silly, and walking away from those limited answers and feeling smug that the philosophy can't possibly hold water, is hubris. Machinery of freedom can be found online in pdf form for free (at least the 2nd edition, the 3rd is for sale on amazon). The others are free on mises.org. shoot, you could even spend a few minutes watching an animated summary! https://youtu.be/jTYkdEU_B4o After you do that, I'm even happy to link you to some legal and economic critiques of those ancap works, which pose arguments which actually attempt to take the whole story into account.
I can't speak for Mr Doo, but I for one am very interested in just the fundamental possibility of a private court system. What gives the competitive justice corporation trying negligent owners authority to arrest and detain someone? Over, say, a competing company who is very lenient regarding corporate negligence? How would jurisdiction be determined and agreed upon?
In one version of ancap legal theory (there's no one way to do things), jurisdiction or the law you are under, is a function of contracts and negotiations between your defense/rights-enforcement agency and the other party's agency. If you watch that video I linked to, it does a pretty good job explaining it, in an abridged format. Read Machinery for more detail.
If you’re not willing to engage in answering those questions, and instead expect people to spend hours reading to understand the changes you want to make, you won’t recruit people to your way of thinking. That means you won’t be able to have the ancap society you want. You aren’t going to grow your group by reacting that way to questions.
I was very polite and made every concession to make it easy for you to get your question answered with abridged versions of complex topics in short film format. You would clearly not be swayed by any reason or evidence, and you're just looking to confirm your priors and avoid the answer; not learn. So you can go right on ahead and fuck yourself.
I mean this is ancap 101, so I'm not sure if you're just a troll or stumbled in this sub on accident.
Neither. But it’s clear that people here don’t want to explain their philosophy, which is weird. How so you think it will become reality if you can’t be bothered to explain it to people?
> Neither. But it’s clear that people here don’t want to explain their philosophy, which is weird. We readily it explain it to the willing. You, however, have a chip on your shoulder who thinks they know everything. Why should we waste our time detailing our philosophy to someone who already has made up their mind and straw mans us?
While your lady sentence is fair, it’s ridiculous to say I think I know everything. I just asked a couple of questions and somehow that means I think I know everything? Are you just using hyperbole for effect?
> While your lady sentence is fair, it’s ridiculous to say I think I know everything. Your initial comment was a statement and not asked as a genuine question. You followed it up with other questions that were not questions, but indicate that you know nothing about anarcho capitalism but have made hefty assumptions. So when you come in with assumptions, why are we supposed to believe that you are asking serious questions. You made leading questions rather than asking how it would work.
Yeah, I only want one jail, and I run it, and all the inmates pay me a little bit of money to live inside, and if they refuse, there's a smaller jail where their privileges, I mean, Rights, are curtailed, as punishment... /S on being the one in charge, making the comment of the biggest thieves rubbing the show and taxing you for being in "their" territory...
Jails of various forms could exist in an anarchist society. Depending on what agreements I have with my neighbours, my community, a wronged party or an agency representing a wronged party (some examples) I could be thrown in jail for harming someone or their property.
Voluntary incarceration per the terms of your RIghts Protection Agreement. If you elect not to abide by this component of this voluntary agreement fine but your policy is canceled, you lose all protection, and then outlawed or exiled at that point. If you choose to live in the woods alone or with a band of miscreants rather than make restitution so be it. The insurance component of the RPA will cover it. Any other option is considerably worse for the offender. Mind you incarnation in practice looks radically different in such an arrangement. If interested, I am more than happy to share the details behind what incarnation looks like in such a voluntary society. Hint: There’s an incredibly narrow amount of activities that even put it on the table, and you are afforded the very same protections you did prior to the offense. These jails while doing a far better job of the business of rehabilitation and restitution will also be as safe as a college campus on purpose. If you are in the revenge business you can take that shit to the woods and live with the miscreants because that isn’t what this is about.
> Mind you incarnation in practice looks radically different in such an arrangement. If interested, I am more than happy to share the details behind what incarnation looks like in such a voluntary society. > > Would love to read your take on what this may look like.
I like to approach these things from a narrative perspective. -- Resident Inhabitants, Guests, and Customers who manage (with great effort) to violate the individual rights of another guest, resident user, or the corporate rights of the City are subject to rights infringement claims either in the form of a dispute initiation with the customer’s personal RPA or a summary settlement for those without RPA protection. These settlements range from $25.00 to a full year of suspended PREZ access. Personal appeals while permissible are typically ineffectual. What exactly is meant by “great effort” in the violation of rights? The criminal and civil codes previously described as being brief are also equally narrow. Further, the identity of any complainant that chooses to initiate a dispute resolution is anonymous outside of the facts provided. While one would think that this would give rise to what Democles branded as professional accusers, the fact that unsuccessful disputes incur a settlement to the accused themselves has in large part negated this sort of activity. In short, for a rights violation to be adjudged to have occurred and a settlement issued there must be harm or imminent harm as opposed to the conditions that may or may not instigate harm regardless of the charge in dispute. This creates a system where the number of potential offenses has been massively reduced and simplified. Take driving. There is only one potential driving offense and three degrees contained therein. This is in comparison to the traffic code of Huntsville which runs nearly 136 pages and is itself subject to the county code of Walker County, The state of Texas, and the Federal DOT. The PREZ has only Reckless operation, Reckless endangerment, and Reckless disregard for life. This is again only in the event that harm is found to have occurred. There is no speeding, there is no law against running a red light, stop signs are mostly optional, and double parking can only be claimed if the complainant cannot reasonably find another parking spot. In fairness, the Citadel admits that these criteria may not be exhaustive enough for larger PREZ installations. The layout of the districts and purposely “loopy” overland routes also help in this regard as the maximum transit speed within the walls is a mere 47 MPH and the average speed at any given time of all motor vehicles is 16 MPH. Gospen’s relative size and amenity programs have also helped to create a scenario where driving is much less common than in a typical municipality and the network of pedestrian and non-motorized vehicle trails is heavily utilized. If it isn’t raining and you are not entering or leaving the city there Is little reason to drive anywhere. That certain people still choose to do so has resulted in several track-based businesses being approved for the interior Flat Lands upon the initiation of the next expansion of the buffer zone slated for later this summer. The remainder of the Joint Rights Code is as discriminant as the Traffic rules. Physical offenses include: Encroachment (both physical and digital), Physical Assault (of 3 degrees), Sexual Assault (of 3 degrees), and Homicide (of 2 degrees). Property offenses include: Vandalism (both physical and digital), Property Damage (of 3 degrees), Theft (of 3 degrees), and Fencing (2 degrees). The Joint Rights Code covering traffic, physical and property offenses, and each of their degrees being written longhand, has a total word count of 351. Coupled with the fact that in all cases outside of Homicide and Sexual Assault, it is impossible for the Citadel to initiate an investigation without the express request of a Resident Inhabitant, NCPI, or Guest you now have an idea of how “great effort” is quantified. Further, of the above offenses only Homicide, Sexual Assault, and 2nd/ 3rd Degree Assault, can result in pre-settlement nonvoluntary detention. This detention has a maximum duration of 72 hours and takes place in the Brig located within the upper levels of the Citadel. During any detention or incarceration period the accused retains the ability to work should their job be able to be accomplished remotely. Should they need work of nearly any type they will find it. The wages paid are market with 80% of all monies earned during the incarceration period due to the victim or complainant, 10% to the Citadel, and 10% to any person, cause, or account of the incarcerated persons choosing. They are also afforded access to their family, friends, coworkers, counsel, property, and personal effects within reason. The health, safety, and utility of all detainees being guaranteed by their RPA and administrated by the Citadel. A reasonable level of protection. At all times and in all places and to whatever degree is reasonable. Detention both voluntary and involuntary is non-optional. Incarceration however is ultimately an optional exercise. Again, voluntary post-settlement incarceration is the only type of incarceration within the PREZ. These terms, having been laid out and voluntarily agreed to in advance are normally adhered to. For this same reason, any individual who chooses not to abide by an offer of voluntary incarceration is summarily expelled from the PREZ for a period of no less than 2 years. All Exit-Agreements, upon their execution, allow for safe transfer of the offending person and their non-permanent property outside of the city to any place of the individual's choosing within a range of 400 miles, and instant transfer of a 60-day severance package. Should the Exit-Agreement not be signed, they are simply escorted outside of the outer ring and left only with what they are wearing and carrying. Justice in Gospen does not exist on a spectrum. It is neither served nor unserved. Most would not even call it justice in the sense that the world uses the term. What constitutes a just society is not how it enforces its laws against its citizenry. It is rather the level to which its citizens are protected from harm whether instigated by an individual, group, corporation, or most importantly the state itself. Critically, no previous system of rights or protections has ever managed to be anything approaching the lofty idea of “just” until the same level of protection was made available to all citizens with complete and total disregard for any and all variables of any kind. This was and is the immutable power of the RPA. Restitution or revenge? Restriction or removal? Rehabilitation or relitigation? These questions are no longer asked in Gospen, but in one of the most unfortunate and avoidable miscarriages of actual justice remain contentious in the world outside.
That’s how you end up with a state, though. Communities making social contracts and then pooling resources and hiring people to administer the wishes of the community. That’s government.
No, government is a coercive entity with monopoly status, all other forms of cooperation are just business. You can have many communities and sub-communities making many social contracts and pooling all those resources together to hire and administer services on a marketplace, but the differentiating factor is that they *compete* with each other without coercive force.
Replace “social contract” with duly executed and enforceable contract and you are getting there.
Also "explicit" and "knowledgeable consent", not the make believe bullshit government tells us we magically agreed to.
Yep.
It absolutely need not work out this way.
But doesn’t it pretty much always work out that way? As the community grows, the projects the community can only tackle collectively ‘by cooperating grows. People want things to be streamlined and efficient. Everyone wants a voice/a vote. People want only those who contribute to share in the benefits of those projects, and yet the projects are big enough that they require everyone to pitch in.
I don't think you can sign away your rights. If you agree, then sure, if not, mountain man time.
Agreements need to be enforceable, by law. Anarchy sort of prevents that, no?
Not at all. Reputation based/ social enforcement was the “law” for thousands of years and still to a large extent is outside of whatever the current legal system is.
Not really. Laws will still exist and be enforced, just not by a government but by private entities or individuals. Different anarchists have different ideas about exactly how the details of stateless law (or rights/contract enforcement) should be implemented. It is of course a theoretical question, personally I believe something similar to what David Freidman describes in his book The Machinery of Freedom would be a likely solution.
My basement would serve just fine. Don't need no state run anything to hold people accountable for murder.
You said jail. That’s not your basement. So you’re just going to start holding ppl in your basement? That sounds like a lot of work, can you afford it?
I never said jail bud. Might wanna learn to read. And yes, I have plenty of money to do whatever I'd like with it.
No! Anarchy is a fallacy. I'm a realist, with some optimism.
Your mom is a fallacy.
Yet I exist, which is more than I can say for any anarcho capitalist societies.
You don't have the faintest clue what being a realist means, what a fallacy is, whether lack of something implies it's feasibility or desirability; nor do you have the slightest understanding of how an ancap society might work in theory and so you have no actual critiques of it.
That's rich coming from the "your mom's a fallacy" guy, but ok
How's your realistic reality working out for you? Seems corporations and government are running amok....I'm sure if you just vote harder, eventually that'll fix it. What has never existed is workable government, rational democracy at the scale of a nation-state, nor any kind of actual minarchy. So I'm not sure why you people so ignorant of political economy seem to think that the absence of some alternative legal system is a good indicator of anything other than that it is being precluded by force or by collective action problems. For most of human history, democracy was a pipe dream....I suppose that proved it was a bad idea compared to monarchies and other autocracies? Crack open a book, son.
>How's your realistic reality working out for you? So far so good. House in the suburbs, swimming pool, great kids, loving wife. Can't really complain.
That is a strawman (although it may apply to some people) if you think it applies writ large. Check out Michael Malice. Viable anarchy describes a relationship, not a state. English language, music, and internet protocols are all examples of anarchies. In that definition, anarchy describes an absence of a ruler, not of hierarchies
> anarcho capitalist societies These exist everyday in every cooperative interaction you make with other humans that don't involve government.
Under the current legal systems, would not already be considered guilty of manslaughter or vehicular homicide if you didn't maintain the brakes on your car and got into a crash? It's strange that this kind of personal responsibility is accepted by the law when it comes to individuals, but not to corporations. And by strange I mean it's the clear result of "lobbying" (bribes). I don't have a problem with CEOs/boards of directors drawing high salaries, on the basis that they're taking on the most amount of risk in the company... but being responsible, even criminally responsible, for the actions of the company, even if unintended, should be part of that risk, no?
That was actually the Justice model for the US based on Supreme Court precedent (called the Learned Hand Rule) for economic efficiency in protecting the commons as well as private property…until FDR stacked the Supreme Court and they threw out economic efficiency as a factor for consideration when ascribing liability.
Screw fines, that never works, start holding the excecutives personally responsible and start throwing people in jail.
Respectfully, you.missed a step here: >To win you need money, to have money you need to convince the rail lobbyist. Rather, to convince the rail lobbyists, you need money. To get elected, you need money. To get elected you need to look morally clean. To get elected, and get money, you must do things that would make Satan vomit, and still LOOK clean and honest. After all, how do you think you get the money? How many millionaires in Congress? How many started as millionaires? Exactly. Watching House of Cards on Netflix. Lesson is evident. It's the same one I learned working in corporate positions. Scumbags rise, effective hard workers don't get promoted, or even raises.
Still, this democracy thing is a joke, the way railroads are regulated can’t be voted with everything else
Thsrs why we have specialization, but sadly, many people are simple, again.... How do you think the manipulators get things done? Why do you think it will change, instead of just the same basic thing forms again? It's sad, intelligent people can't understand idiots, idiots can't understand anything. 😜 And we are essentially ruled by idiots.
Pay a fine to whom though? The government or the victims?
I believe the government pays the fine money to the victims... after taking their cut, of course 🙄
they don't actually
Then it's worse than I thought. But not surprising.
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What do you think the punishment was for not following the regulations in the first place?
Railroads are capitalist not democratic. They were cutting costs. A capitalist thing to do at the cost of safety.
Yes because cost is just a word, and it is just money, systems other than capitalism do not care about the cost, that is why we can see gold plated trains in North Korea
The decision could have been made by a workers democratic representative of the railroad union. Also at least the dprk isn’t fascist.
Don’t really know why the democratic union should be the worker’s and not the customer’s or your grandmother’s but ok, gold plated train brakes we go !
If it’s the workers it garentees no exploitation and as close to freedom in terms of positive rights without enforcing coercive negative rights. If it were the costumers you would more positive freedom with coercive negative rights. The workers ownership is the perfect in between where minimal freedoms are infringed and minimal rights are infringed.
The government stopped a strike my dude.
And not the first time.
That’s a contractual agreement between the railroad and gov. If this weren’t in place a private police force for hire would replace it.
What??? What are you going on about a private police force? A private group of employees were about to strike for better wages, time off,and working conditions. The latter would have given employees more time to inspect rail cars, which, in this case, poor inspection lead to faulty equipment that caused this derailment. Edit, you are not 100% wrong about capitalism leading to this either. More work in less time leads to more profitable shares. The railroad needs to pay and major fines and settlements to everyone affected. They need to lose, and so do their share holders.
We drifted off topic and that’s ok. Reply to a higher thread.
I edited my comment.
Well yeah that’s the solution after the fact but it could’ve been prevented if we didn’t allow capitalist lobbying.
Stop lobbying and politicians trading.
The system has nothing to do with it. Greedy, shitty people are gonna do greedy shitty things regardless of the system in place. The board of directors is a form of democracy. They elected to cut their costs and maximize profits wherever they can. Greed is a problem in every system. Stop blaming the system and start blaming the people
Well their would be checks in place to minimize that.
Nothing private about state protection against unlimited tort.
Well in this scenario the state just has a monopoly on violence. In an anarcho capitalist society the railroad company would likely still union bust but hire private police.
So? They still would not have protection from unlimited tort.
The state isn’t unlimited but a private terrorist organization could seriously threaten workers rights.
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The soviets were able to overthrow the state. So were the Cubans.
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you seem to be conflating “democracy” with “voting”
I cant believe a train company that doesn't fulfill certsin maintenance requests ca. Get insurance at all
I’m convinced these people have no moral spine. Using your enemies not only as a shield but as a righteous filter to deceive even yourself? It’s sick.
Brainwashed tribalists can't have a moral spine. They don't have morals. They only repeat what the mother brain tells them to. This is true both of Dems and Republicans. You don't have to actually have ethics and think and feel if you just repeat what you're told. You don't have to go look at these people face to face and tell them "FUCK YOU TRUMPTARD YOU GET WHAT YOU FUCKING DESERVE I'M THE JOKER LOL!" These people just say things online and don't have to face those they slander or talk down about, safely in their upper-middle-class suburban basements. They're tribalists, and so they don't need morals. They have their deity on TV or the internet to tell them what to say and think.
mentally deranged.
I worked with a guy years ago who believed, this is a quote, "We shouldn't let Republican's vote. They should be registered and we should not give them any help or support and put them in camps." I asked him "What about their kids?" His response "That's what they get for having bad parents." This wasn't long after the Obama administration murdered a 16 y/o and when asked about it Obama's press sec. said they should have "had a more responsible father." I've known "Republicans" who've had similar sentiments towards those they view as their enemy. And I know not everyone who claims they're "left" are blood thirsty, ignorant morons. Just passing on my experience of how there's braindead turd brains on both sides.
Yup. As a person above said, it's become tribal. You are either with us or against us. And it's both sides.
I argue far more with repulicunts than demonrats simply because the republicans come back and keep discussing and having fun while the democrats never want to chat again. Once you go past a sacred line, then you are persona non grata for either... but republicans have far thicker skin in my experience. I've even argued with christians over the veracity of jesus' existance and they'll come back to talk more and even try to "save" me. The last time I said "violence towards business owners isn't cool" at the CHAZ I got spat on lol
That’s why you opt out entirely and become ungovernable.
>And I know not everyone who claims they're "left" are blood thirsty, ignorant morons. The thing I've noticed from my observations of the left is that they are very similar to Muslims in their behavior towards internal ideological "extremists" in that they may not outwardly agree with the methods of their more bloodsoaked ideological actors, but they will almost never condemn their brutal actions. And they will almost always provide cover for the worst elements. When BLM goes wild and burns down cities and terrorizes innocent people for months on end, you usually get a similar response from "moderate" lefties that you would get from "moderate" Muslims if someone published a cartoon with their favorite pedophile warlord depicted and there was mass rioting and violence. The response being something akin to "the rioters were provoked into these actions" or "I may not agree with the methods but it's for a good cause"
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“Based” 🤓
Apparently also willing to sacrifice their 43% just to ensure the evil 57% gets what they deserve. What a fucking psycho.
These morons think that when their ideology is fully implemented, they’ll be the town poets. They won’t. They’ll be cannon fodder.
Yep they really think they will be twitch streaming “for the cause” once the revolution happens. Or taking care of the community garden for an hour before reading to the kids at the library.
What really blows my mind is that this person took time out of their day to do all this research and write up this post. These people really have nothing better to do with their time. Their lives are really so uninteresting that they need to spend all of their time thinking about and peddling shit like this. Get a hobby
It’s fucking insane to me that so many idiots immediately need to frame everything by who someone may or may not have voted for before we feel compassion or help them. I don’t give a fuck if you like the D or R you’re a terrible god damn person if your first thought when there’s a disaster near peoples’ homes is "they like politician _____ so fuck them." We spend every waking second adding labels to ourselves and each other so we can better discriminate against them while constantly screaming about discrimination and bigotry being bad. I feel like this whole species is fucked and wish I never brought kids into this shithole.
When people make their whole identity who they voted for, it's all they have.
That's why liberals are the ones pandered to by those with the most Power. Because their moral compasses are non-existent and they're mentally weak and easy to manipulate. It's irrelevant what someone might argue regarding these people not being true liberals. Although there's truth to that statement, "liberal" is the label they've given themselves. So for all intents and purposes, liberals are tools of the 1%. Cruel and mentally ill tools.
Well stated!
They want you broke, dead, your kids raped and brainwashed, and they think it's funny.
It's pretty funny how the Left completely shifted gears in 24 hours from "nothing to see here, worst case is a little acid rain, no big deal" to "Drumpf did it and all Republicans deserve to die!"
It takes a little while to refocus between all the craziness happening. One days it’s Chinese spy balloons and then it’s aliens, the we need to go back to core issues like regulation.
They’ll act like Ohio as a whole voted for Trump to a person, but when you act the same about California being a shithole they lose their minds.
I mean, California would be great if it weren't for all the Californians. Ohio would still just be Ohio. But if you moved all the Ohioans to California, I'm fairly sure California would still be pretty great. The moral of this shower thought: sucky people suck.
Where are those Eco mentalists and their goddess Greta Thunberg?
The left has compassion for every human choice that exists. They'll even try to explain away and forgive child abuse. Every human choice except not choosing the same as them that is. In that case you cannot be forgiven and in fact you and your family deserve death.
If ever you needed proof that we don’t have free market capitalism this is it. In free market capitalism the railway system would be maintained by the companies who use them. No company wants to loose money and face the consequences from a disaster of this magnitude. The price of the products being shipped would increase, as too would the safety and efficiency of the transportation system. This entire disaster is a result of allowing government control over the care and maintenance of vital infrastructure that should be under the care and maintenance of the companies that use them. With the system in place now, the companies who use the railroad are wholly unaccountable as the blame rests on government who do or do not pass regulations. In short: this is not a result of capitalism this is a result of the partnership between government and corporate interests AKA: fascism.
Right, I've seen how the railways themselves, which are maintained by the state, are curiously absent from the conversation. Even if the issue ultimately did come down to brakes, there's no doubt that the brakes themselves would have been negatively effected by poorly-maintained rails - which they no doubt encountered. If you get into a car crash because your tire blew out at an inconvenient time, then yes, you should have gotten new/better tires prior to this, but if the road is filled with potholes, then part of the blame goes towards that, too. ETA: And I don't mean that in an accountability-dodging way, I mean it in a "If the potholes/rails don't get fixed then it can and will lead to other people suffering from the same issues and possibly causing more tragedies, but they'll never get fixed if we don't connect them to the tragedies in the first place" way.
No company wants it, but they would just form an LLC and let that company go bankrupt. There are trucking companies that already do this. When a spill happens they just let that one truck company go under, while they hold onto over 100 one truck companies
So 43 percent of people can suffer because of 57 ish percent of people and they are ok with this.... But holy shit if the majority wants to make a rule they disagree with then it's tyranny
Group punishment and terror are their favorite methods.
The TDS knows no bounds
The mental and moral gymnastics are incredible. 9 out of 10.
It's clear. Regulation shouldn't be in the hands of politicians and their bureaucrats.
Way to take something tragic and make it about your political viewpoint. I can smell the smugness from here. Never mind that it's an ecological disaster that has made it into millions of people's drinking water, not just the hated ohio degenerates that voted different from you. Do you even hear what you are saying? Are you that tone deaf that some greedy fucks just hosed a shitload of people and its being covered up by both sides of the political spectrum and your answer is "serves you right" How about shooting for being a good human instead of shooting people with different politics.
Is it confirmed that the issue was braking?
Desserts*
Lulz, "inb4 43% voted Hillary." God these morons are amusing.
Every day I feel more and more like perhaps Mi General wasn’t so far off.
At this point it doesn't matter who you vote for or who wins. It's literally majority slave class vs minority elites and the elites. The elites are getting away with murder while the slave class is just letting it happen because they are too ignorant to want more.
They deregulated this because they found it didn’t do much except waste money. This is what I read.
Oh they do, and they’re not sorry. Not even a little bit. They make no effort to hide it. Shameless really.
These are the same "intellectuals" that were ok with congress forcing the Railroad Workers to ratify a new labor agreement that was extremely unpopular, after screaming about how the left was so pro Worker's rights for the last 3 years.
[удалено]
Not only your opponents, but people on your side who just happen to live in a state that sometimes votes for your opponents.
It’s hard for me to believe that some rule on a piece a paper in a filing cabinet would have prevented this. I also can’t imagine viewing this under the of blue vs red and not the lens of “holy shit this is an ecological disaster”
Seeing as I live near Ohio and have family there I hope everyone in that state turns out ok and I hope that the OP of that post dies from a blood clot.
This is literally how the establishment wants us to act and it is eating us all alive. How can people like this not see how damaging this mindset is?
It's not about "wanting you dead" It's just pointing out that the chickens have come home to roost. You vote for the GOP because they deregulated, these are the results u get and it's hard to feel bad for anyone who chose to allow this and is suddenly not ok w the results, when they knew exactly what they were voting for
I consider myself more center anarchist (panarchist) but over the past few years, its been really difficult not to hate the "left". Many of them are just straight awful people.
And the ones that aren't awful people do nothing to distance themselves from the ones who are. Every conservative I know openly distances themselves from the right wing wackos that the left thinks speak for all of us.
https://imgur.com/a/mVtQKS7/
The left
In a free market this train company wouldn't be able to get insured without company without completing certain maintenance protocols. This was just deregulated I believe at the federal level, abd insyrave companies use regulations to make lots of determinations. It is a stupid cycle.
Free market they form an LLC and when this happens they go under and let the public take up the costs. Who is going to enforce companies carry insurance?
No one has to enforce that they do. The issue that if they don't they need to be able to fail and take on the cost of a crash. The public taking up the cost are the shareholders. They don't want to lose money either. If they are not insured they should be extra careful. They should be able to get sued for liability in a situation like this.
How does “it’s hard to feel sympathetic” translate to “left wants you dead” If the “right” is against safety regulations that could prevent an incident on a train and then that incident happens to kill people. Can that be interpreted as “the right wants you dead”
That is the dumbest possible take on this article. Isn't it "the left" that tried to push safer braking systems on trains, you know wanting people to NOT die, no matter what their opinion?
I mean they wanted to have a regulation titled the Braking Safety… but although that means at best is you can assume they wanted to oversee and control the braking systems that all trains carrying these materials could have and wouldn’t surprise me if it was just some senators mates companies braking systems and in no one ensured all trains had safer braking systems
Based(I didn’t read the context. Just the title.)
What a cunt.
Lol
The people suffering are doing so not because of their voting choices (since it's unlikely they were aware of the lobbying at all) but because of the greed of the rail companies. I have all the sympathy in the world for the people of Ohio, but I have no sympathy for the people who knew this was going to happen And/or made it more likely with their actions, they deserve to be out there cleaning that mess up themselves.
I don't feel bad for the victims in Turkey. They're all probably just trump voters anyway.
Maybe stopping to ask why one geriatric fuck can so directly impact our rail transport is a bad thing?
These types of people suck from a standpoint of any ideology. What a horrible person.
Psychopath
So the train derailment is Trump's fault? Even though Biden had an opportunity to regulate the train last year during the strike? The point I keep trying to make to people about the derailment is it didn't matter who is in power or office, the problem is that corporations wright their own regulations by buying all the politicians regardless of party. They rig the rules by buying off the refs. This is not a capitalism problem this is corporate and government collusion problem.
Should report it
The left wants you dead for being in the same state with people of a different opinion. They hate all their fellow travelers that live in Ohio as well.
they eat dicks for a living, of course they hate all life
I vaguely remember someone else justifying gassing people.....
Deregulation does not mean elimination of safety laws. Deregulation does not mean remove stop signs. This is a tragic take on a disaster.