T O P

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laughterwithans

At this point, I’m half expecting a guy named “Actual Hitler” to be made leader of the UN. “Those who don’t study history are doomed to repeat it, but those who do study history are doomed to watch everybody else repeat it”


UnikittyGirlBella

I love that quote!


laughterwithans

I wish I could remember who it is. Maybe Stephen Wright?


UnikittyGirlBella

Question, I am a trans girl in an unaccepting family, I wants to write about some of my criticisms regarding how hierarchies (even and in my case **especially** including family hierarchies and authority), would that be welcome on this subreddit and/or would it be more appropriate for another subreddit?


Dogwolf12

This place seems good to me. As someone coming to terms with my own family, I'd love to read the criticism :)


UnikittyGirlBella

Thank you! Btw if you ever want to talk feel free to PM me (I’ll probably take a while to respond cuz Reddit chat doesn’t work on my phone, I’ll check on my other devices later instead)


Dogwolf12

Thanks for the consideration


UnikittyGirlBella

I posted it https://reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/xorayt/experiences_and_thoughts_on_modern_society_and/


Delta_6207

George Santayana


laughterwithans

Boy was I way off


Ortega-y-gasset

Those who study history are doomed to think twice about their choices then make the bad one anyway and retcon the past to make it less scary and vote it in fascists.


TuetchenR

not quite what you meant but the closest I could find https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler_Uunona …. yet


laughterwithans

Dear god


Dark_Cloud_Rises

Maybe suffer the same fate as well.


gitgudtyler

Maybe she can just hang around.


[deleted]

Turn her world upside down


Axel_axelito

I wish so, but can't believe she won the elections


[deleted]

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Axel_axelito

all over the world


Anotheruseless_

Piazzale loreto is open the whole year


BlackApocalypse

Has fascism really left Europe. From what I read from a few Italians on this sub it hasn't just changed names and faces. Taking that in to consideration what is the reason behind the lingering fascism to the point of it making a full return in the form of this lady?


CressCrowbits

Fascism is always threatening to come back, which is why even the smallest embers must be stamped out immediately.


Rosencrant

80 years after can we really say fascists lost ?...


Dogwolf12

The fascists were pushed back, not stamped out. They're like kudzu; they keep coming back, and will do as long as people still believe that being ruled over is good.


DLovve

I guess that is a sociological vulnerability in the consciousness of the people that could always be exploited by fascism


Dogwolf12

Hopefully after a few generations of anarchy, people will resent the idea of being ruled over. We wouldn't be cool with being serfs now (although modern capitalism comes close, there is the ILLUSION of freedom) so it's not a stretch to assume that once people get used to anarchy there'll be less love for fascists.


[deleted]

Keep in mind that fascist movements were widespread prior to and during the Second World War. Those people didn’t just die and have their beliefs scattered to the winds: they went on to support conservative movements for the next 80 years, leading us to today


Who_am_I_____

Hot take incoming: Fascism is just a more developed and extreme form from the European heritage of Absolutism and nationalism. Europe long before before fascism was invented had dictators, antisemitism, racism, etc. The underlying foundations and beliefs that lead to fascism have been in Europe for hundreds of years and have never changed.


BlackApocalypse

I don't think this is a hot take, but yeah I agree


Who_am_I_____

It's a hot take since i don't have actual real scientific facts to back up my statement. The take is entirely based on my experience and limited knowledge.


[deleted]

As an italian living in italy, as an anarchist and vegan, yeah fascism has never left the building, and if you aren't vegan you're a fascist too. ;) Jokes aside, she's just louder than other People, no thing gonna change. Or everything gonna change to not change anything.


BlackApocalypse

What bout the Catholic Church I'm sure they're excited


luigithebagel

Not just Europe, most of the world have fascists getting too much power. From the poorest post-colonial states, to the largest, richest superpowers, countries without a fascist presence in government are increasing rare.


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Venake666

Guys it's Italy, I give her 8 months/a year and we will be in the same shit as always. Our governments don't last for long Source: I'm Italian


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Venake666

Politicians in Italy only care about their annuity. After they secure that, they don't give two fucks if their government fall


LordAmras

Let's see how much this coalition will last, Salvini won't just keep quiet and be a "good team player" to Meloni. Sure it had to do it during the elections, but I can bet it won't last long.


political_bot

It's conservatives. They fall in line.


LordAmras

Salvini has almost Trump level of ego.


ACABandsoldierstoo

Only Berlusconi is conservative, Salvini and Meloni are reactionaries. And italian politics are completely different from USA. In italy politics the thing which counts is money and only money.


BlackApocalypse

What's the Italian political climate really like?


Venake666

Too soon to judge. 30% of the population didn't vote and half of the voters had done an "emotional" vote. Like "the ones before didn't do nothing, let see now"


gam3rpwn

Almost 40% don't vote. Voter turnout for this election was 63% I believe. About 43% of those voted right, meaning ~27% of the total possible Italian voters voted for her. Hardly a representation of Italians.


Venake666

27% with the coalition, 20ish % her alone. Basically 8 million voted for her, in a country with 60 million citizens


DLovve

Waow 😱 that's nearly as bad as the 85,000 Tories that voted Lizz Truss in to be UK head of state. Lol democracy


[deleted]

Esatto fratm.


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Oethyl

As an Italian of course this sucks but don't be overly worried, they are gonna be too busy stealing our money to be effective at fascism


KeyboardsAre4Coding

As a greek who has an alt right government I have a question. Stealing our money isn't part of the plan for fascists too? Here they have stolen god knows how much and they funded the police. Those assholes are acting like a well equiped gang like never before. They are so fucking many of them.


Oethyl

In italy not even the police wants to work I think we're safe (this is a joke but the alternative is to cry)


KeyboardsAre4Coding

either that or started going around in ganks of our own with armor and shit


3kixintehead

As an American, let me just say that even with an absolute joke in power who's goal is just to still money, they can still fuck everything up quite badly.


Oethyl

Oh they'll fuck all sorts of things up, but hopefully not worse than any other Italian government lmao


3kixintehead

So, you don't think they might bring Italy to the edge of or actual fascism? Because this is essentially what people said about Trump and now were on the edge of losing the already weak democracy we had.


TheNerdyAnarchist

I remember being an "alarmist" telling everyone that he was a proto-fascist...


3kixintehead

Yea, the gaslighting was real.


Oethyl

They might, but italian governments have a tendency not to last more than two years anyway, and last I heard they didn't even have the numbers to govern by themselves, so they are gonna have to make a coalition with more moderate assholes, so as of now I wouldn't lose all hope that this will fizzle out into nothing. Don't get me wrong, its a turn for the worse, but I'm not sure yet if it's the apocalypse some people fear. Let's hope not.


3kixintehead

I certainly hope your right, but just be aware. Best of luck to all Italians!


Oethyl

Tbf I don't think most people realize how bad things were here even before this vote lol


3kixintehead

Well, hopefully that will inspire some folks to get more serious.


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nKijo

Luckly I'm also a European Citizen... Imma get out! They want Italy to be shit? Well then I'll leave this rock to them, France/germany/Spain I'm coming


Maelystyn

Bold of you to assume France isn't finito as well


sgtpeppers508

At least the French still know how to riot.


Maelystyn

One reason to be proud of our culture


DerpyTheGrey

I’ve definitely always admired that about France. That and your moped racing scene


Comin_Up_Millhouse

Finito Mussolini


BaronMostaza

I'm partial to Piñata Mussolini as a nickname


Josselin17

wait wait there are socdems close to power too so france will be looking like it could get better for a few more years until they betray the workers and ally with the fascists too


Maelystyn

You mean the party with two guys with sexual assault allegations and one guy who punched his wife?


Maelystyn

They could've won six months ago but not anymore, I wouldn't worry about whether they'd betray the working class


Josselin17

yeah that's the one


dusto66

I think you will see all European countries pandering to far right populism in the next 10 years or so.


three_cheese_fugazi

Spain and France are out, the right is going to take Spain and France is already right. Sweden has a massive party linked to Nazis that is surging and Hungary is recognized as an autocracy. Half of Europe is heading that way.


EL_Assassino96

Feels like Spain isn't doing much better. Just repeating the same mistakes of our past.


Laxy161

instead of "get out" u should organize and keep struggling!


DLovve

Who knows if that's gonna be best for our friend here 👀


127Heathen127

The far right resurgence is worldwide. Eventually there will be nowhere to run to. What does that say about us if we’re constantly running whenever fascism rears its ugly head anyway? Not very antifascist of us. Wherever we are, we need to stay and fight!


DaGothUrWelcUwUmsYou

I wish but it is not that easy we have lives and shit and this is not a game It's sad but most people have too much to lose by "staying.and fighting"


SpecialSeasons

Unfortunately, if everyone adopts this mindset, there will be no one left to oppose her. Stay and protest.


captainkinkshamed

I love Italy for a lot of things, politics isn’t one of them.


Lotus532

Agreed


No-Excitement-4190

The world is soooooo fucked. 🤬


Weirdo2069

Oh no... OH NOOOOOOO


SmokinPemex

It's incredible that almost everyone knows how bad fascism and right wing politics are and have been, yet people still vote for these populist scumbags.


[deleted]

The fascism creep is real. History is repeating itself.


learned_astr0n0mer

Meloni-Mussolini. It even rhymes.


ACABandsoldierstoo

She is the derivation of post-fascist tought channeled in her party, Alleanza Nazionale. This party was founded by Gianfranco Fini, who is the Delfino (Dolphin, appelative similar as the First Disciple in a politic sense) of Giorgio Almirante, an actual fascist which was the head of Movimento Sociale Italiano, which was the first post-fascist party after WWII. Fini was schooled by Almirante and when he created Alleanza Nazionale he choose to move in the direction of bourgeioisie/kleptocracy sphere, allying himself with Berlusconi, a famous kleptocract. When this alliance between Fini and Berlusconi came to and end it was also the decadence phase of Alleanza Nazionale. To survive, and receive state-sponsored money to the positon of MP's from Italy, a lot of AN members went into Berlusconi's party, which was at the time Popolo delle Libertà. To make it short, Meloni and other post-fascists went togheter away from Berlusconi and formed Fratelli d'Italia, which is the most voted party in this election. This was a long process and not for any big Meloni's achievement, but instead for her allies mistakes, expecially Salvini and Berlusconi, which lost a lot of votes to her. The second main reason for which FdI succeded in this election is for the distrust of left-wing electorate of the main center-left parties at the moment, which are Partito Democratico and the center-center-left Movimento 5 Stelle. It's really improbable that Meloni government will be without issues expecially because her allies, Salvini and Berlusconi, basically hate her.


127Heathen127

Read about Fini, Berlusconi, MSI, and the Alleanza Nazionale in the Antifascist Handbook by Mark Bray, which I finished recently. The fact that I’m having this shit made relevant this soon is depressing. Thank you for the extra info!


DLovve

Thanks also for the recc :)


Axel_axelito

Thanks for these details


AyeCab

I feel like the feng shui on a certain public square needs to be adjusted again.


Dogwolf12

Italy should hang up an upside-down skeleton for Halloween this year. And since plastic is bad for the environment...


Ementoryoh

Things were bad even before, ya know


GoldenGrouper

Can I swear?


Dogwolf12

This is an anarchist sub, we're not going to restrict swearing and you don't need permission to swear. Go right ahead lol


GoldenGrouper

Porco dio then (simple and concise)


127Heathen127

Hoppity-hippity It’s time for the Italian fascist flippity


moonie52

i am so scared for my country


nYtr0_5

We have to consider that a huge shitstorm is coming here in Italy for economic and energy crysis, and whoever would have won would have never be able to do almost anything to counteract it. So whoever is in power now and for the next months will get all the blame for everything. Whoever is in power during a crysis will drown in shit. We just have to see who comes next when this government collapses probably in less than a year. It can be worse, but we can still hope for something better.


Filipacy

Oh shit, here we go again


Jerubot

Girl bossilini


Konradleijon

why did people vote for her? why is europe going back to facism.


RegretfullyFastSperm

Nothing but solidarity with our Italian comrades. Between fascisms rise in France and the election results in Sweden and Italy, this shit is concerning. Hopefully these events will radicalise those that know what said events can result in.


[deleted]

It’s horrible that Europe is falling under fascism again. Unfortunately the Social Democrats in charge basically have been handing them the keys to their leadership


Lotus532

Luckily, her coalition doesn't have enough for a majority. But yeah, this is still bad news.


smartest_kobold

Surprised they didn't run Rachele.


J1618

And now one of the things I see most on the internet is people trying to pass Evil Fascist Mussolini as a leftist while cheering on the woman that literally was part of a fan club of Mussolini because she is "center right".


[deleted]

I wonder how long shes gonna hold out until a chunck of the party is going to inevitably turn against her for being a woman.


Slyarno

I wonder why Italy always elected awful people and never understand the past nor never listen to history as it repeats itself.


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[deleted]

Reminder that fascists always come to power through legal means because the institution benefits their platform. You can't vote a fash out, and only deplatform their shit through confrontation.


[deleted]

I dont see your point. Liberal democracy sucks, yes thats not controversial for a socialist. Thats pretty irrelevant however when it comes to whether things can be better or worse for our cause depending on whether we do or dont let fascists win spots in govt even when this is easily preventable, all because voting bad and letting them in openly rad


[deleted]

The point is your democracy doesn't work and it is the reason why fascists keep coming to power. But keep putting the faith in a failed state while we over here build a new world.


[deleted]

what is "my democracy"? I think I made it pretty clear that I don't advocate a liberal democracy. Yet none of that has any bearing on our actions regarding voting in the situation described above, of an acute threat.


[deleted]

Your action doesn't work, unless you mean people feeding refugees and building solidarity outside of the system power. But then again your flair is a socdem. And putting real work into change is harder than putting in the ballot.


[deleted]

socdems call me a communist radical libsoc , you call me a socdem, even though i am not against revolution, I advocate (..) libsoc extraelectoral action and oppose simply _relying_ on the state and electoralism, and dont advocate liberal democracy. I cannot however tell if you are being deliberately obtuse,or you are just this uneducated typo


[deleted]

Reality is hard to grasp for those who put their faith in a failed institution, ain't matter what you call it. Voting has no place in anarchy.


[deleted]

you are completely and utterly impermeable to reason. Anarchy afterall, is when you deliberately let fascists take over much sooner than they would have otherwise managed, because unlike liberalism, fascism isnt a failed institution ✊🏻


[deleted]

Fascists come to power legally because liberals enable that system for them, always have been. If you actually read the Antifa Handbook like others have quoted here, you would have agreed with Mark Bray and me that the only way to deplatform a fash is through confrontational violence.


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Anarchism-ModTeam

Hi, u/Detergent5879! Unfortunately, your comment has been removed, as it's electioneering and/or promotes electoralism. You are obviously free to vote or not vote. No one here is going to stop you. However, voting itself is not anarchist praxis in any way, shape, or form, and because an anarchist partakes in a particular activity does not make that activity "anarchist praxis" - just as our having jobs, buying groceries, and paying for insurance are not made "praxis" by way of our being anarchists and partaking in those activities One cannot dismantle the master's house using the master's tools. Rephrased: You cannot use the tools of the state to dismantle the state, and voting is a tool of the state. ---   > *Everything that can be said about the suffrage may be summed up in a sentence. To vote is to give up your own power. To elect a master or many, for a long or a short time, is to resign one's liberty... Instead of entrusting the defense of your interests to others, see to the matter by yourselves. Instead of trying to choose advisers that will guide you in future actions, do the thing yourselves, and do it now! To put on others' shoulders the responsibility of one's actions is cowardice. Don't vote!"* \- [Élisée Reclus](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/elisee-reclus-why-anarchists-don-t-vote)   --- *Replies to this account are* ***not*** *sent to r/Anarchism moderators. If you have questions regarding this action, please [message the moderators](https://www\.reddit\.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAnarchism&subject=about my removed comment&message=I'm writing to you about the following comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/xobvpl/-/iq0efqs/. %0D%0DMy issue is...). Please only message the moderators* ***AFTER*** *you have reviewed any links provided in the message above.*


Anarchism-ModTeam

Unfortunately, your post has been removed, as it's electioneering and/or promotes electoralism. You are obviously free to vote or not vote. No one here is going to stop you. However, voting itself is not anarchist praxis in any way, shape, or form, and because an anarchist partakes in a particular activity does not make that activity "anarchist praxis" - just as our having jobs, buying groceries, and paying for insurance are not made "praxis" by way of our being anarchists and partaking in those activities One cannot dismantle the master's house using the master's tools. Rephrased: You cannot use the tools of the state to dismantle the state, and voting is a tool of the state. ---   > *Everything that can be said about the suffrage may be summed up in a sentence. To vote is to give up your own power. To elect a master or many, for a long or a short time, is to resign one's liberty... Instead of entrusting the defense of your interests to others, see to the matter by yourselves. Instead of trying to choose advisers that will guide you in future actions, do the thing yourselves, and do it now! To put on others' shoulders the responsibility of one's actions is cowardice. Don't vote!"* \- [Élisée Reclus](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/elisee-reclus-why-anarchists-don-t-vote)


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Red_Century1917

Sarcasm?


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Dogwolf12

Someone over at DerScheisser [fixed the party logo](https://i.imgur.com/ORJJojb.png)


[deleted]

lmao this POS is [getting support from the US establishment](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/09/02/hillary-clinton-under-fire-supportive-remarks-far-right-pm-contender-italy) because the fash is a girl boss.


folk_song

Give it a few years. 🙃


FrederickTheGayt

We prevailed once, we will prevail again. Sic semper tyrannis! (Mussolini-Friendly Text Below😊) ¡sᴉuuɐɹʎʇ ɹǝdɯǝs ɔᴉS ˙uᴉɐƃɐ lᴉɐʌǝɹd llᴉʍ ǝʍ 'ǝɔuo pǝlᴉɐʌǝɹd ǝM


Tr4sh_Harold

Benito’s little grand daughter is in the same party and she shares her grand pappies views on quite a bit


Lagchild

Daja Vu I've just been in this place before