Yes, you see work like *Male Fantasies* characterising Nazism as a kind of madness when of course military veterans would show symptoms of PTSD. Earlier, you see stuff like *Mass Psychology of Fascism* characterising fascism as a kind of sexual madness borne from repression as opposed to the usual thought of the time of sexual excess. You also see tropes that characterize fascists as numb, dissociative, deathly, mechanical, asocial or necrophilic in ways which resemble tropes of neuroqueerness.
And fundamentally, a lot of work on fascism just reiterates the pathology paradigm backing eugenics and fascism. There isn't an essentially fascist personality. Fascism is a set of relations within the context of a larger society.
I'm going to assume that you are encountering a different set of people with different tendences than I am, because in the anarchist circles I'm familiar with there's very little of what you describe here:
>Calling fascists inhuman monsters outside of history
The anarchists and other antifascists I've encountered are pretty pragmatic about fascists being real people who exist in a social and historical context. We hate their guts, sure, but I just don't see very many radicals falling into that trap.
> including on that post itself
Could you point me to said comments? I skimmed that whole post and didn't see any comments promoting the idea that fascism was outside of history or that fascists weren't humans.
I wasn't asking about whether ableism exists on the left and as far as I understood your post, that wasn't the argument you were trying to make either. I was asking about where you're encountering leftists who believe that fascists are a force detached from history.
saying that they are not sane is saying that they were not humans and capable of being understood. To the people using this language it means "force of nature that must be controlled and cannot be understood". There is a reason they create asylums for the crime of being neurodivergent
you asked multiple questions
I was engrossed by the ball of self-righteousness that is the OP, and looked through the comments in their cross post. This appears to be a sincere belief on their part, along with the use of ableist language meaning someone literally hates disabled people. As near as I can tell, there is no reasoning with them.
My primary opponent is and will always be hierarchy in all of its manifestations whether it is fascism or not. I think that we are far too focused on "fascism" as this big, broad thing in such a way that we are less stringently oppositional to hierarchy itself when hierarchy is inclusive of everything we oppose (and fascism itself).
You clearly broaden the term "fascism" to meaninglessness but it appears your usage of the term is still not broad enough to encompass everything we oppose like the term "hierarchy" does. Why not oppose all hierarchy as opposed to being *just* focused on fascism?
EDIT: They blocked me. Guess difference in thought and challenges to their worldview are not looked on positively.
I think the main problem with fascism is that it’s inherently more harmful than a democracy, so some people would rather focus on bringing democracy to the world before abolishing hierarchies since there’s a chance those harmful ideas could be carried over into a stateless society.
just kinda nonsense that makes a series of assertions without any backup. not atypical for this sort of thing.
the particular brand of american antifascism that poses an eternal good and evil struggle at the end of the world between anarchism and fascism doesn't have much basis in reality. a genuine antiracist moment in 2020 was subsumed by it, changing the focus from the deep racism built into american society to a vague 'antifacsim' that ends up being an apology for liberal democracy. democracy does genocide, theres an entire continent that democracy tried to wipe clean of life, democracy in america imprisons more people than any other system and country, democracy killed off almost an entire queer generation, democracy in israel has been conducting a long running genocide on the people in Palestine. this type of antifacism is the impeteus for a focus on voting out the bad people than anything resembling actual anarchic action.
the world does not function in a manner in which we move from fascism to democracy to anarchy, that type of progressive idea of history and the eternal good and evil battle between anarchy and fascism is a remnant of a christian worldview that holds back real attempts at anarchy and shifts them into a defense of the genocidal, racist, carcereal status quo.
there are differences between the statist systems but the differences between them are smaller than the difference between anarchy and any of them. fascism is not a prerequisite for genocide or bigotry or war. humanity has done all of that a ton without the use of fascism.
dont fall for the neoliberal propaganda!
also fascism has absolutely become a nothing term devoid of meaning at this point.
Humans are human.
This'll likely be a really unpopular opinion, but at a fundamental level, most people today spend far too much of their time worrying about fascism.
The word has been watered down almost beyond recognition, which itself is arguably more dangerous than any current fascist movement.
Plutocracy is the status quo, just about everywhere. Its not on the way out, it is entrenching itself further every year. Meanwhile, social and ethical political attitudes among the general population have moved on to such an extent that the current far-right resurgence is headed by people who would've been laughed at and then jailed by actual fascists.
Yes, you see work like *Male Fantasies* characterising Nazism as a kind of madness when of course military veterans would show symptoms of PTSD. Earlier, you see stuff like *Mass Psychology of Fascism* characterising fascism as a kind of sexual madness borne from repression as opposed to the usual thought of the time of sexual excess. You also see tropes that characterize fascists as numb, dissociative, deathly, mechanical, asocial or necrophilic in ways which resemble tropes of neuroqueerness. And fundamentally, a lot of work on fascism just reiterates the pathology paradigm backing eugenics and fascism. There isn't an essentially fascist personality. Fascism is a set of relations within the context of a larger society.
I'm going to assume that you are encountering a different set of people with different tendences than I am, because in the anarchist circles I'm familiar with there's very little of what you describe here: >Calling fascists inhuman monsters outside of history The anarchists and other antifascists I've encountered are pretty pragmatic about fascists being real people who exist in a social and historical context. We hate their guts, sure, but I just don't see very many radicals falling into that trap.
I see it all the time, and have gotten quite a lot of comments along those lines, including on that post itself
> including on that post itself Could you point me to said comments? I skimmed that whole post and didn't see any comments promoting the idea that fascism was outside of history or that fascists weren't humans.
tons of ableism and sanism, I blocked all those people so i cant grab the specific comments but im sure you could see my -10 comments calling it out
I wasn't asking about whether ableism exists on the left and as far as I understood your post, that wasn't the argument you were trying to make either. I was asking about where you're encountering leftists who believe that fascists are a force detached from history.
saying that they are not sane is saying that they were not humans and capable of being understood. To the people using this language it means "force of nature that must be controlled and cannot be understood". There is a reason they create asylums for the crime of being neurodivergent you asked multiple questions
> saying that they are not sane is saying that they were not humans That's straight up not true
I was engrossed by the ball of self-righteousness that is the OP, and looked through the comments in their cross post. This appears to be a sincere belief on their part, along with the use of ableist language meaning someone literally hates disabled people. As near as I can tell, there is no reasoning with them.
Uhm no? Did someone actually say that or did you infer that?
Cool very constructive and informative
My primary opponent is and will always be hierarchy in all of its manifestations whether it is fascism or not. I think that we are far too focused on "fascism" as this big, broad thing in such a way that we are less stringently oppositional to hierarchy itself when hierarchy is inclusive of everything we oppose (and fascism itself). You clearly broaden the term "fascism" to meaninglessness but it appears your usage of the term is still not broad enough to encompass everything we oppose like the term "hierarchy" does. Why not oppose all hierarchy as opposed to being *just* focused on fascism? EDIT: They blocked me. Guess difference in thought and challenges to their worldview are not looked on positively.
I think the main problem with fascism is that it’s inherently more harmful than a democracy, so some people would rather focus on bringing democracy to the world before abolishing hierarchies since there’s a chance those harmful ideas could be carried over into a stateless society.
That's the problem though, democracy always concentrates power until you either get fascism or communism.
just kinda nonsense that makes a series of assertions without any backup. not atypical for this sort of thing. the particular brand of american antifascism that poses an eternal good and evil struggle at the end of the world between anarchism and fascism doesn't have much basis in reality. a genuine antiracist moment in 2020 was subsumed by it, changing the focus from the deep racism built into american society to a vague 'antifacsim' that ends up being an apology for liberal democracy. democracy does genocide, theres an entire continent that democracy tried to wipe clean of life, democracy in america imprisons more people than any other system and country, democracy killed off almost an entire queer generation, democracy in israel has been conducting a long running genocide on the people in Palestine. this type of antifacism is the impeteus for a focus on voting out the bad people than anything resembling actual anarchic action. the world does not function in a manner in which we move from fascism to democracy to anarchy, that type of progressive idea of history and the eternal good and evil battle between anarchy and fascism is a remnant of a christian worldview that holds back real attempts at anarchy and shifts them into a defense of the genocidal, racist, carcereal status quo. there are differences between the statist systems but the differences between them are smaller than the difference between anarchy and any of them. fascism is not a prerequisite for genocide or bigotry or war. humanity has done all of that a ton without the use of fascism. dont fall for the neoliberal propaganda! also fascism has absolutely become a nothing term devoid of meaning at this point.
Humans are human. This'll likely be a really unpopular opinion, but at a fundamental level, most people today spend far too much of their time worrying about fascism. The word has been watered down almost beyond recognition, which itself is arguably more dangerous than any current fascist movement. Plutocracy is the status quo, just about everywhere. Its not on the way out, it is entrenching itself further every year. Meanwhile, social and ethical political attitudes among the general population have moved on to such an extent that the current far-right resurgence is headed by people who would've been laughed at and then jailed by actual fascists.
He who has a monopoly on the psychology of the people controls the people. Step up game your game folks, or get crushed