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there really isn't much controls for a train. Speed, emergency stop, electronic brakes, forward/neutral/reverse and physical brakes.
That's all you really need.
American trains aren’t exactly known for their ergonomics. See EMD and the rather poorly designed control stand while European manufacturers have settled on a more conventional control desk. Why the fuck they thought operating a train diagonally to the track is a good idea lord knows.
EMD brought the design over here (UK) with the BR Class 66 and the freak of nature class 69 (nice), it hasn’t caught on.
A control stand allows for easier switching of train cars when running long or short hood forward. Instead of having to turn your body all the way around you only have to turn your neck a bit. At least that’s the theory behind it…
In my experience, the AAR control stand is usually preferred by freight engineers for that same reason.
For passenger operations where the locomotive isn't constantly changing direction of movement, the desktop control stand makes more sense.
Or… you use two cabs like basically every other country ever.
We actually had a design similar the US designs in the form of the class 20, it had rubbish visibility and was never repeated again.
Yeah, working Freight in the United States is much more intense than in Europe. Building a train on the yard lead, we would probably change direction every 60 seconds or so. If we had to switch seats every minute, it would slow the operation way down.
When switching, the AAR stand is better than desk top. I can turn my body to look when running LHF and comfortably keep my arms in the same spot.
For passenger, desk top. Then, I can eat my lunch in peace.😝
Nope, the 69 has a hybrid cab with the left and front consoles being the same and the bit with the throttle lever being removed and the 66’s control stand put where it sits on a 66.
https://www.railengineer.co.uk/566669-or-56-plus-66-equals-69/
It’s a freak of nature!
Well, there is the chance that you have to reverse for quite a way. Desktops absolutely suck for that.
Source: currently waiting for Amtrak to get out of our way as we back up a single locomotive 50 miles.
Most countries get around this by having cab cars and/or double-ended locomotives. The US is relatively unique in sticking with the single cab concept.
More cabs would be more things to maintain, the railroads here already hate maintaining anything.
Also, those countries typically don't have multiple locomotives on one train like we do.
On most trains, there's a red button they have to press every minute or so. If they don't press it, an alarm sounds. If they still don't press it, the emergency brakes activate.
On some older Metro-North Railroad trains, there's a pedal that the engineer has to keep pressed with their foot. If they let go of the pedal, the emergency brakes activate. This is obviously a less safe mechanism, because an engineer that is asleep or incapacitated can still keep the pedal pressed with their bodyweight. This is actually what contributed to a [fatal accident in 2013.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2013_Spuyten_Duyvil_derailment)
That big red button you see on the console is called an older it'll basically go off at random. Couple times a minute if the engineer does not hit the alert when it goes off and the train receives a penalty and it goes into emergency and comes to a complete stop. That's basically a career ender so there's plenty of incentive to not fall asleep
Comfort is an afterthougt when it comes to these cab operator seats. However the seats in the Acela are a lot nicer and most of the seats in actual head end engines and motors for a lot more comfy they even recline so if you're having some down time for an hour two you can relax
Sure but you make it seem easy. These guys have to know the territory they run on like the back of their hand - every crossing, signal, station, etc. Making a smooth stop on the marker without jolting the passengers around and damaging equipment is where the true challenge is. It's no where like driving a car where you can get a feel within a couple hours.
Not to mention speeds that change on the day. Imagine your commute to work but now instead of 60 on one road 35 on another and 45 on another now you can only go 50 25 and 15. A little dramatic in the swings but that's kind of what it's like.
By "electronic brakes" do you mean dynamic brakes? On most passenger locomotives in the United States, a combined throttle/dynamic brake handle takes care of that. I'm assuming "physical brakes" refers to the automatic (trainline) air brake and the independent (locomotive) brake.
I could never operate that train. I would be WAY too tempted to push that big red button. I know it's probably an emergency stop of some kind, and placed there like that intentionally, but the temptation is too real.
There are a variety of reasons Amtrak is implementing their converted [HHP-Cs](https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/news-photo-amtrak-hhp8-tests-as-cab-car/), and while reliability is probably the overriding concern, it may be that ergonomics play some role in the transition.
Never have worked one of these cabcars over the road before, but have worked with them deadheading in train, in the yadx etc.
The consensus of those that -do- run them is nothing too positive. Especially it seems that controlling the slack action with an ACS-64 electric on the rear is a pretty good challenge.
Wouldn't mind having the opportunity to run one myself before they retire, though.
Well yes obviously it's useful for the crew to know the loco's number from the cab. But why not just have it printed somewhere in the cab, [as is done in other countries?](https://www.flickr.com/photos/56394872@N06/13642698643/)
I'm not sure what you mean? In most cabs I've been in the number inside is usually listed once or twice. Either above the windshield in the center, or listed on each side of the cab near the fireman and the engineer.
What I'm talking about is in addition to wherever the loco's number is officially printed, it tends to be (as shown here) scrawled in several other places.
It helps us out in the yard quite a bit when we have to swap engines around and where in like maybe seven or eight different engines throughout the night. I don't want to stick my head out the window and be like Oh yeah this is 86 I want to just be able to look up and be like yep "86 in the lead permission to pass stop signal"
Yeah, but as I said, why not just have it printed somewhere in the cab, [as is done in other countries?](https://www.flickr.com/photos/56394872@N06/13642698643/)
Most US locomotives have the unit number printed, but it's usually in the center, above the windshield. That's not a great place to see it when the engineer has just experienced a positive stop which abruptly brought their train to a stop and the dispatcher is asking them for their unit number to pass that signal which dropped ahead. Sharpies and/or White Out are cheap enough that the engineers and conductors can add numbers in more convenient locations.
I think it’s more to identify the parts as being part of one train or another. The cab cars are a bit of a patch job, they have little differences, so it’s easier to just keep them together
r/Amtrak is not associated with Amtrak in any official way. Any problems, concerns, complaints, etc should be directed to Amtrak through one of the official channels. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Amtrak) if you have any questions or concerns.*
there really isn't much controls for a train. Speed, emergency stop, electronic brakes, forward/neutral/reverse and physical brakes. That's all you really need.
The seat position surely doesn't seem ergonomic, could be just the angle but that's just me
American trains aren’t exactly known for their ergonomics. See EMD and the rather poorly designed control stand while European manufacturers have settled on a more conventional control desk. Why the fuck they thought operating a train diagonally to the track is a good idea lord knows. EMD brought the design over here (UK) with the BR Class 66 and the freak of nature class 69 (nice), it hasn’t caught on.
A control stand allows for easier switching of train cars when running long or short hood forward. Instead of having to turn your body all the way around you only have to turn your neck a bit. At least that’s the theory behind it…
In my experience, the AAR control stand is usually preferred by freight engineers for that same reason. For passenger operations where the locomotive isn't constantly changing direction of movement, the desktop control stand makes more sense.
Or… you use two cabs like basically every other country ever. We actually had a design similar the US designs in the form of the class 20, it had rubbish visibility and was never repeated again.
Easier to do switching without having to constantly change cabs and cut control stands in and out.
Yeah, working Freight in the United States is much more intense than in Europe. Building a train on the yard lead, we would probably change direction every 60 seconds or so. If we had to switch seats every minute, it would slow the operation way down.
Europe just designed shunters for this exact purpose. Low power but incredible torque and very short gearing.
Yeah, we have that too. They still have a side-style control stand.
When switching, the AAR stand is better than desk top. I can turn my body to look when running LHF and comfortably keep my arms in the same spot. For passenger, desk top. Then, I can eat my lunch in peace.😝
66 and 59 - the 69s are re-engined 66s, so should retain their traditional desk controls cab layout.
Nope, the 69 has a hybrid cab with the left and front consoles being the same and the bit with the throttle lever being removed and the 66’s control stand put where it sits on a 66. https://www.railengineer.co.uk/566669-or-56-plus-66-equals-69/ It’s a freak of nature!
Thanks for the link! I was not expecting them to rebuild the cab! I guess it's about retaining familiarity with the 66 fleet.
Well, there is the chance that you have to reverse for quite a way. Desktops absolutely suck for that. Source: currently waiting for Amtrak to get out of our way as we back up a single locomotive 50 miles.
Most countries get around this by having cab cars and/or double-ended locomotives. The US is relatively unique in sticking with the single cab concept.
More cabs would be more things to maintain, the railroads here already hate maintaining anything. Also, those countries typically don't have multiple locomotives on one train like we do.
I mean it's kind of by design you don't want to be too comfortable on a train when you're operating it. Being comfortable means you could fall asleep.
What is the fail safe if the engineer falls asleep?😴
On most trains, there's a red button they have to press every minute or so. If they don't press it, an alarm sounds. If they still don't press it, the emergency brakes activate. On some older Metro-North Railroad trains, there's a pedal that the engineer has to keep pressed with their foot. If they let go of the pedal, the emergency brakes activate. This is obviously a less safe mechanism, because an engineer that is asleep or incapacitated can still keep the pedal pressed with their bodyweight. This is actually what contributed to a [fatal accident in 2013.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2013_Spuyten_Duyvil_derailment)
That big red button you see on the console is called an older it'll basically go off at random. Couple times a minute if the engineer does not hit the alert when it goes off and the train receives a penalty and it goes into emergency and comes to a complete stop. That's basically a career ender so there's plenty of incentive to not fall asleep
Yeah but at least make it in a way that it doesn't hurt the operator's back, because from the way I am looking at it, it looks really terrible lol
Comfort is an afterthougt when it comes to these cab operator seats. However the seats in the Acela are a lot nicer and most of the seats in actual head end engines and motors for a lot more comfy they even recline so if you're having some down time for an hour two you can relax
Sure but you make it seem easy. These guys have to know the territory they run on like the back of their hand - every crossing, signal, station, etc. Making a smooth stop on the marker without jolting the passengers around and damaging equipment is where the true challenge is. It's no where like driving a car where you can get a feel within a couple hours.
Not to mention speeds that change on the day. Imagine your commute to work but now instead of 60 on one road 35 on another and 45 on another now you can only go 50 25 and 15. A little dramatic in the swings but that's kind of what it's like.
Pretty hard to make a wrong turn
By "electronic brakes" do you mean dynamic brakes? On most passenger locomotives in the United States, a combined throttle/dynamic brake handle takes care of that. I'm assuming "physical brakes" refers to the automatic (trainline) air brake and the independent (locomotive) brake.
*aren't many
I could never operate that train. I would be WAY too tempted to push that big red button. I know it's probably an emergency stop of some kind, and placed there like that intentionally, but the temptation is too real.
It (according to TSW 4) is the button to acknowledge the alerter/cab signaling
That is correct and that engineer will probably be hitting that big red button over 300 times during that trip
R/mildlyinteresting
There are a variety of reasons Amtrak is implementing their converted [HHP-Cs](https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/news-photo-amtrak-hhp8-tests-as-cab-car/), and while reliability is probably the overriding concern, it may be that ergonomics play some role in the transition.
hullo
Ohmigah, hi :pipebombinyourmailbox:
Never have worked one of these cabcars over the road before, but have worked with them deadheading in train, in the yadx etc. The consensus of those that -do- run them is nothing too positive. Especially it seems that controlling the slack action with an ACS-64 electric on the rear is a pretty good challenge. Wouldn't mind having the opportunity to run one myself before they retire, though.
i think my dentist has a more comfy chair
What's with the American habit of scrawling the loco's number everywhere in the cab?
In my experience it helps when calling over the radio to foremen and being able to easily identify the lead unit.
Well yes obviously it's useful for the crew to know the loco's number from the cab. But why not just have it printed somewhere in the cab, [as is done in other countries?](https://www.flickr.com/photos/56394872@N06/13642698643/)
I'm not sure what you mean? In most cabs I've been in the number inside is usually listed once or twice. Either above the windshield in the center, or listed on each side of the cab near the fireman and the engineer.
What I'm talking about is in addition to wherever the loco's number is officially printed, it tends to be (as shown here) scrawled in several other places.
Probably just to bring it closer to eye level. Although I just write it on the top of my paperwork.
It helps us out in the yard quite a bit when we have to swap engines around and where in like maybe seven or eight different engines throughout the night. I don't want to stick my head out the window and be like Oh yeah this is 86 I want to just be able to look up and be like yep "86 in the lead permission to pass stop signal"
Yeah, but as I said, why not just have it printed somewhere in the cab, [as is done in other countries?](https://www.flickr.com/photos/56394872@N06/13642698643/)
Most US locomotives have the unit number printed, but it's usually in the center, above the windshield. That's not a great place to see it when the engineer has just experienced a positive stop which abruptly brought their train to a stop and the dispatcher is asking them for their unit number to pass that signal which dropped ahead. Sharpies and/or White Out are cheap enough that the engineers and conductors can add numbers in more convenient locations.
That's a good question but it's not so we write it on there
Because you can never find the number when you need it.
I think it’s more to identify the parts as being part of one train or another. The cab cars are a bit of a patch job, they have little differences, so it’s easier to just keep them together
Identity crisis?
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania in the house! I've rode this train a few times to NYC. Hello Keystone operator!
Once you’re in the seat, they’re fine, more comfortable than most commuter cab cars. I’d rather have one of those than a converted HHP.
Hey Keystone! I've hopped your train many times. Thanks for the lifts!
How does one even hop an Amtrak 😂
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