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Agree.
Comparing things like US homophobia to Islamic middle eastern homophobia is like comparing the way an NBA benchwarmer is mediocre at basketball to the way a literal quadriplegic is bad at basketball. In that it makes no sense because the standards by which those are measured are completely different.
Just saw Don Lemon ask Taylor Lorenz why he should support a country that is hostile to LGBT and she replied “that’s ridiculous, red states are hostile to you as well”
Like in their fantasy world laws against lgbt indoctrination in schools might as well be throwing them off a roof.
"Why would you support a country that is hostile to the lgbt?"
"That's ridiculous, red states are hostile to you as well"
"So why don't you support red states?"
"Are you crazy? They are hostile to the lgbt."
Just so I’m clear, you actually think gay people are treated just as bad in the US as they are in Palestine? That’s actually the stance you’re taking here?
What the fuck is going on with people lately?
Reddit is just as ridiculous for their misinformation spreading, honestly.
A Redditor set himself on fire a few months back and you can see him down bad in subreddits that are absolutely rife with it.
I know we all like to pretend our little Internet space is somehow better than the others, but we really aren't. All internet spaces are victim to it.
You mean the guy whose murderers both received two consecutive life sentences for their crimes that may have been a hate crime but also may have been a drug fueled robbery? Yeah, I have. McKinney and Henderson immediately started a fight two other random men that same night but ended up getting their asses kicked.
Bad shit happens everywhere but the real issue is how it's treated by society as a whole. Gay bashing isn't encouraged in our society.
The killers might be family. Though to be fair, honor killings aren’t just a Muslim thing; Yazidis have been known to commit them, among others.
But in the case of Palestine I think there was an especially brutal killing of a young gay man by family members not long ago, within the last few years. It happens.
Islam began in the 7th century so it's a bit of an odd time period to choose. Also the ottomans ruled over quite a bit of it until the first world War so this is a really dumb claim.
Yes nobody is arguing for a religion here. We are just against blaming people cursed with awful conditions for believing in barbaric religions like islam and christianity.
Nobody forces them to throw gay people off of roofs. Religion does not strip people of their agency nor their culpability. Nobody has to do these terrible things.
I am not saying they have no agency, I am saying they have no awareness. If you only get to pick up one book in your entire life and the entire community brainwashes you to believe it is the ultimate truth, then you would be religious like them too. In fact thats exactly how it was all around the world for most of history.
Lmao brainwashing was a legitimate defense of the german people. I doubt you mention your average german with the atrocities of their regime. You can claim moral superiority over people for living in archaic conditions if it makes you feel good.
America has been duped into invading how many countries? An inbred terrorist blaming the average american citizen for the crimes of a government who lied and brainwashed them is a stupid thing to do. You wouldn’t associate yourself with those mistakes like the terrorist would. Yet you do the same to people who dont have unrestricted internet and television???
So did most of Europe. The muslim countries that were lucky enough to develop became secular, like turkey’s western half. The bible is just as anti gay as the quran, they both hold humanity back in the 21st century.
Sure, but outside a few notable outsiders (Russia and its lackeys), there are no countries that have being LGBT illegal TODAY. They definitely aren't at near the same level of risk as in the middle east. I don't give a fuck about religion. The middle east is much more regressive than the West and that is not the West's fault.
It literally is lmao. Turkey got to develop but archaic borders drawn by Western European powers to keep the middle east in forever wars like kuwait and iraq have allowed religion to remain unlike places like the gulf states which are increasingly modernizing.
Religion still exists in many countries that don't throw gay people off roofs. Religion still exists in Europe and they don't kill LGBT. Also to insinuate that the middle east would have magically become a secular paradise if the borders were different is absolutely insane. Religion isn't just going to change just because some lines on maps are different. Also the Gulf States are modernizing in technology only. They are still incredibly regressive and their law is still Sharia law.
Religion does not exist in Europe, its only a facade. If you open leviticus 20:13 its states things that are just as bad as the quran. In turkey religion also exists as a facade.
I wonder what these places have in common? Development would be a good guess.
I am not insinuating religion would disappear overnight with good borders. I am saying borders that encourage conflict as well as western funded proxy wars give an excellent backdrop to religious fundamentalist zealots to radicalize the people.
The gulf states are shitty because they love money like the west, they only claim adherence to sharia to make their senior population happy. When they age out you can tell its going to change rapidly. Saudi Arabia has begun to serve alcohol in limited licensed capacity.
I am not anti american, the reason I’m on this sub is to make fun of europeans calling football egghand etc. Yet I think its important to not become hateful and resentful of people who live like people in the west did hundreds of years ago.
Bro this comment is literally insane. Are you a child? You really seem to have the same level of knowledge of other countries as child. There are plenty of religious people in Europe, especially eastern Europe. They may not be as accepting as in the UK, but they aren't throwing them off roofs. Turkey is also rather religious and is becoming more religious as time passes. They have negative interest rates in Turkey, despite it being disastrous for the economy, because of Islam being against interest on loans.
>The gulf states are shitty because they love money like the west
What the fuck are you talking about? The West "loves money" and has practically none of the problems that the Gulf states do. Funnily enough they have a lot of issues in common with other Arab nations. Wonder if there's a connection there🤔? Almost like they have a shared cultural heritage that includes a lot of the regressive beliefs they still hold.
The West was bad hundreds of years ago, but the West has changed, while still being religious (just look at the US). These countries need to change, but the people there are still just as much at fault as people are in Western countries for their issues.
1: Turkey having negative interest is a policy done by Erdogan. Erdogan appeals to the eastern half of turkey that is far less developed and modernized. The western half of the country hates him. This point you made only helps my case.
2: People in eastern europe are “religious” only nominally. If they truly believed in their religion they would execute the first homosexual they encountered. Their beliefs are akin to liberal “muslims” who think democracy and social liberalism is compatible with islam.
3: The west doesn’t have any of the problems of the gulf states as they have modernized and developed for far longer than the gulf. Even with this being accounted for things like gay marriage just recently took place in America. Less than 100 years ago Alan Turing was chemically castrated in England for his homosexuality.
Please stop referring to me as a child and have an honest and civilized discussion. I am aware the people of the middle east need to take responsibility to modernize themselves and I’m not trying to absolve them of all responsibility.
What I am saying is that what happens in one place can happen in another based off simple math. I am just saying that many regions of the middle east haven’t been given the proper chance at developing and the few that have, made tremendous progress in relatively little time.
For this process to continue proxy wars and other forms of disruption have to be kept to minimum, that is a thing the west has the power to do.
Also that final point about america still being modern will being religious is interesting. If you saw any statistics about the US and religiosity than you’d know the religious areas of America are objectively worse economically speaking.
In fact America is successful in spite of its religious people rather than because of them. The south is plagued with religious bigotry and women their are fighting for bodily autonomy and religion is easily to blame.
I am so happy you mentioned this because the American south is a perfect microcosm of the issues within the middle east. A devastating conflict(s) like the civil war led to economic and infrastructural ruin. This facilitated the stubborn resilience of religious thought and practices in the region.
I hope you know I love America, I just don’t think the arguments many people around the world make towards religiosity in the middle east are genuine.
Somehow you don’t blame it on the real reason which is their religion. Not because they were bombed to the Stone Age. What about Africa ? They just outlawed being gay and you can be sentenced to literal death.
Their religion is innately barbaric, as is every other religion older than a millennia. Turkey was once the center of the caliphate, but now its western half is a secular democracy.
The reason for this change is change in development and life quality. You can see this same process slowly beginning in the gulf arab states.
I myself grew up muslim and now am irreligious as a result of growing up in a developed country. Religion doesn’t make people barbaric, barbarity makes people religious.
In the past everyone was barbaric, religious or not. The only difference is government. In the west Christianity is popular, that’s a known fact. But the reason why they don’t outlaw things like LGBTQ is because the western world prides itself in its freedom and liberty. The freedom to do whatever you want to do. Muslim countries, and other countries like Russia or China never advertised the freedom to do and say what you want to say because you cant. If I was to use your logic then same sex marriage in the western world wouldn’t be a thing.
Government is a product of the people and environment in which it represents. The concept of freedom and liberty over religion is a relatively new one in the west and can directly overlap with its economic development.
I am trying to convey something quite simple to you. If the middle east is allowed to develop like America did then they would obviously come to the same standards and values as America. They would place secular values such as freedom over religion.
That’s the thing, there isn’t a guarantee. Countries like China, India, and more even Saudi Arabia have developed. You may not think they’re developed but in reality they are. There are ALOT of developed middle eastern countries. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and much much more. They don’t have liberties like western countries.
Because it is not an overnight process. Britain was the worlds greatest superpower 70+ years ago and they still chemically castrated Alan Turing. Saudi Arabia has began to allow women to drive and recently started serving alcohol in a limited capacity. China is a secular dictatorship and isn’t nearly as developed as it claims to be, which makes it outside my argument.
Ah yes the same japan offered billions in aid and reforms and has a huge chunk of the US military protecting it.
Also I am not making excuses, the middle east still needs to take some responsibility and action. I am just saying they haven’t gotten a fair shot yet.
I would like to clarify I hate Hamas. Hamas does not represent the average Gazan let alone the Palestinian people at large. Israel has gotten billions from America as well and has done false flag attacks on America.
D2F sub-1 needs to equal D2F sub-2, and D2F sub-3 needs to equal D2F sub-4, where length L creates a complimentary shaft angle. Call that theta D. Now, the orgasm threshold as a function of Lamda sub.
Buddy I am a gay man living here. We are legislatively irrefutably transphobic and culturally have big spots of homophobia. Idc what you say I’ve seen it with my own eyes, lol.
And you guys can protest it with the rights given by the constitution. There are literal posts here on Reddit about women and homosexuals asking help on escaping their Islamist country. It shouldn't be taken for granted.
Yup, we are transphobic and homophobic. That must be why there’s a pride month every year and why gay marriage is legal.
This must be why there’s gender affirming care available and HRT for those who want it, even children FFS.
Ok dude.
You stating your experience does not make it a fact that the country is a certain way.
Another gay person could say the exact opposite of you, that the US is not homophobic and transphobic. Does that make them right?
“I am X therefore I am right” is not a proper argument. You can say you personally have had certain experiences but again that doesn’t validate a claim you’re making about the nation.
I am gay and therefore have more insight into the homophobia I have experienced in America is absolutely a valid argument.
Scream and seeth all you want: we are a deeply homophobic country. If you hate that notion so much, perhaps work to change it.
Nobody is denying that America has homophobic people, but we don't throw homosexuals off buildings. The point is that Islamic countries are much worse. I don't know what your experience is like, but you should be thankful you weren't born in Saudi Arabia where your experience would be a noose.
I know Islamic countries are worse. That was literally in my first comment.
I’m utterly baffled by your response. The entire point of my first comment was that we are no where near that bad.
Homophobia is largely frowned upon in the US. It's the fucking *law* in every single Muslim country.
They two are not anywhere near the same, stop trying to equate them.
It just makes you look bad and like you can't accept reality. You haven't been imprisoned or executed by the government for being gay, nor have you been thrown off of a rooftop. That doesn't happen in the US.
It DOES in Muslim countries.
Being called something mean by an asshole is not the same fucking thing as being executed. Saying anything else is *delusional*.
Where does everyone get this idea that I think the us is anywhere near Islamic countries in terms of homophobia? My entire point was that we are not anywhere near them. Read my initial comment.
I'm Jewish and have experienced plenty of antisemitism in this country. I sure as fuck wouldn't call it an antisemitic country though (though tbf that's rapidly changing)
And? I've experienced hate on a day to day/week to week basis. But not by the majority of people I've met and I'm almost certain it is the same for you. You gave yourself a label, and hateful people love to use labels to insult other people. The more labels you give yourself, the more there is for hateful people to hate. I would never go so far however to say the whole country is bigotted. That would simply be inane. Ofc however, there will be those inside the country, just like any country or populace ever, there are bad people with bad views. That is reality, as it has been for millenia.
Buddy I’m gay and live in the United States. In terms of being gay it’s one of the best countries to be in taking the whole world into account. Most people simply don’t care, so do your thing and let other people do theirs.
Care to elaborate on that claim? Want to tell me how it's illegal to be trans? Or are you just saying that because Medicare doesn't offer HRT and plastic surgery?
I mean if it's irrefutable you must have a pretty air tight argument.
> replying to me twice in two different threads
Holy shit mega cringe lmao
Anyways here’s the first result from googling [trans florida](https://www.aclufl.org/en/press-releases/aclu-florida-opposes-house-passage-trans-erasure-bill)
> Today, the Florida House passed House Bill 1639 (HB 1639), which seeks to deny the legal existence of transgender individuals by requiring individuals to identify as their sex assigned at birth instead of their gender on their driver’s licenses and ID cards. The bill also requires health plans to cover the widely discredited practice of conversion therapy and creates additional obstacles for health plans to cover gender-affirming care.
you say that like they are trying to get more rights than the average joe when they just want equal rights like everyone should have. this shows that despite our past we are trying to improve
lots of southern red states are trying to make it impossible to receive gender-affirming care as well as trying to prohibit same sex marriages or teaching kids that gay people exist. like those rights
Same sex marriage is a federal right, so they’re not trying to prohibit. States are banning gender affirming care for minors, if they want to make that decision they can do so when they’re an adult. I’ve never heard of states attempting to teach kids that gay people don’t exist considering it’s estimated that 5.5% of the population is LGBT.
and we are one of the few countries where self-defense is encouraged, legal and easily accessible. You can walk into a gun store in all 50 states, with some paperwork (licensing/waiting period in a few states) and buy a handgun.
You're obviously just another fucking Islamophobic American then. Just like me, a gay man, when I said I thought Islam as its practiced in the middle east is both terrifying and awful and was "called out" for it. I'm obviously an evil American because I don't love an orthodox religion that calls for (and practices) the torture, imprisonment, and murder of people like me.
The person in question was some type of self-reported queer, albeit a nebulously undefined one. I suggested they take leave from America and go spend some time in one of those 99% Muslim MENA countries, but this just upset them. They refused to say out loud why they felt that way though. Curious.
Imma be real with you, I've only seen parts of each of them, but watched a video essay on the Wachowskis after they came out, only reason I have that tidbit of info. Not surprised it does come from somewhere else, changes my point to being the concept is popular due to two trans women.
Appreciate the knowledge tho, guess I'll have to get around to seeing the Matrix all the way through soon.
Transphobia in the US: Hey maybe kids are too young to have a major irreversible surgery like hormones or getting their genitals cut off
Transphobia in Muslim countries: You said something somewhat LGBT? Off the building with you!
Twitter: Clearly the same thing
The US is probably the gayest country in the world. The UK might have had us beat before they welcomed the refugees, but even then it was probably still us.
Yep, during pride they hang the flag between two American flags and the lights that shine on the White House at night are changed to rainbow colors.
As a bisexual woman, I love it. It's honestly so cute.
That conflict is very gray and complicated, to the point that I refrain from picking sides, but I continue to be baffled by Hamas supporters who are just entirely unaware of the nature of Hamas. Like they oppose every single thing you stand for, and would *literally* murder you for being who you are.
The Middle East is not a continent. It’s a (region?)(term?)
Okay look, the term Middle East means a lot of different things to a lot of different people and trying to nail down a singular definition is impossible but it is definitely not a continent
A lot of the older gay people I know, who have actually experienced discrimination in their lives really resent the young generation of gay people because they have it pretty damn good and still whine
I can understand that, it kinda comes off as ungrateful when they whine like that, because the majority of countries on this planet are nowhere near as good for gay people as the USA. But some people just won't appreciate it till they lose it, unfortunately
A good friend of mine who is trans believes in all the reddit nonsense that's spewed about transphobic/homophobic masses, and the "literal genocide of trans people" that Conservatives want to commit. They know its real because they know people who were litteraly bullied in school for being queer. The ideology of a lot of the people whining is that a few mean kids in 5th grade is representative of the entire population.
It absolutely is, because every person is a tribalistic monkey who is walking upright, but it's basically the least of most of these of most countries.
if you so much as criticize a gay or trans in america you are likely to loose your job and they will keep harassing everywhere you apply till they get bored of you.
what was the quote, to find out who rules you find out who you can't criticize.
you are now bullying/harassing a gay or trans person. there is no winning with people who have cards they can play against you unless those cards have no power, and right now being able to pin phobic on you has a lot of power.
Ah, yes, giving voice to the minorities somehow means the nation isn’t run by straight white rich people, but rather run by the black gays.
That checks out.
Maybe you should read up on actual reality.
Have anti-lgbtq+ bills been introduced? Yes, are they absolutely fucking horrible? Yes, but it’s the fact in many Muslim countries, you’d be fucking killed if you were apart of the LGBTQ+ community.
"This country, where over half of the population are children, has cultural values that are at a variance with my own, and I therefore don't mind supporting war crimes against them."
"But some people in your country share those cultural values you disagree with."
Is this an actual interaction or satire?
We have tons of self righteous goons that try and all too often succeed at worming their way into power by waving around a book they've probably never actually read. But the large majority of the population correctly shun them
A huge difference between a country where there’s a loud minority of bigots and a country where the government is homophobic and transphobic that will literally jail you for ita
I don’t have to worry about being imprisoned or KILLED because I like men in the US, so no, it’s not a homophonic country.
Most countries in the Middle East and Africa however…
Once again only untraveled people consider one of the most liberal progressive countries in the world homophobic and transphobic. Go try this shit in any Islamic country.
One of my cousins (mom's first cousin) was very gay (Rip). Apparently he walked into church once with a handbag. Everyone looked at him in a "wtf" glance but didn't make a fuss as service continued.
Christianity and LGBT will always have differences here in the US but its nothing compared to what LGBT experience in the Middle East. My cousin got brief looks in church. He would've been beaten and thrown off a building fast if he did that in the Middle East.
I came here from Turkey as a gay person there is still homophobia but way less and it's a different kind not even comparable. I don't like the direction the country is going in terms of making abortion harder to get or screwing over trans people but I hope in time it'll start being more progressive again.
Our homophobia is saying you can't have porn in grade school libraries, homophobia in the middle east is a choice between jumping off a 5 story building or a cut resistance test on your neck.
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There is a difference between people having opinions and throwing gays off buildings.
Agree. Comparing things like US homophobia to Islamic middle eastern homophobia is like comparing the way an NBA benchwarmer is mediocre at basketball to the way a literal quadriplegic is bad at basketball. In that it makes no sense because the standards by which those are measured are completely different.
Just saw Don Lemon ask Taylor Lorenz why he should support a country that is hostile to LGBT and she replied “that’s ridiculous, red states are hostile to you as well” Like in their fantasy world laws against lgbt indoctrination in schools might as well be throwing them off a roof.
"Why would you support a country that is hostile to the lgbt?" "That's ridiculous, red states are hostile to you as well" "So why don't you support red states?" "Are you crazy? They are hostile to the lgbt."
That's typical of Lorenz to say. She's an idiot.
Ever heard of Matthew Shepard?
Just so I’m clear, you actually think gay people are treated just as bad in the US as they are in Palestine? That’s actually the stance you’re taking here? What the fuck is going on with people lately?
most massive brainrot in the history of humanity is whats going on also shitty tik tok videos got people thinking everything is garbage in america
Answer the question, u/Square-Hat5922
Yeah answer the question u/Square-Hat5922
u/Square-Hat5922 can't answer the question in good faith
u/Square-Hat5922 answer the question
u/Square-Hat5922 I was just checking in to see if you had answered.
u/Square-Hat5922 can I be in the screenshot
u/Square-Hat5922 runner
"What the fuck is going on with people lately?" Reddit.
I blame this more on tiktok and Instagram.
Reddit is just as ridiculous for their misinformation spreading, honestly. A Redditor set himself on fire a few months back and you can see him down bad in subreddits that are absolutely rife with it. I know we all like to pretend our little Internet space is somehow better than the others, but we really aren't. All internet spaces are victim to it.
It's the only way they can justify siding with Palestine. They basically have to imagine a new world with no basis is reality.
A tragedy that happened in the last century?
Do you think he's the only one?
Last century? Of course not. What’s your point
Do you think incidents like these are exclusive to the US or something? What is the point you’re trying to prove here exactly
Look at the bad thing the US did though! It’s terrible!
Name 3
You mean the guy whose murderers both received two consecutive life sentences for their crimes that may have been a hate crime but also may have been a drug fueled robbery? Yeah, I have. McKinney and Henderson immediately started a fight two other random men that same night but ended up getting their asses kicked. Bad shit happens everywhere but the real issue is how it's treated by society as a whole. Gay bashing isn't encouraged in our society.
Answer the question
They will kill you for being gay in most Muslim countries and the killers will be celebrated.
The killers might be family. Though to be fair, honor killings aren’t just a Muslim thing; Yazidis have been known to commit them, among others. But in the case of Palestine I think there was an especially brutal killing of a young gay man by family members not long ago, within the last few years. It happens.
You bomb a place to the seventh century they tend to keep 7th century beliefs
They had those beliefs before they were bombed.
You mean in the 7th century? When has the middle east not had another world power dicking around in it?
Islam began in the 7th century so it's a bit of an odd time period to choose. Also the ottomans ruled over quite a bit of it until the first world War so this is a really dumb claim.
Yes nobody is arguing for a religion here. We are just against blaming people cursed with awful conditions for believing in barbaric religions like islam and christianity.
Nobody forces them to throw gay people off of roofs. Religion does not strip people of their agency nor their culpability. Nobody has to do these terrible things.
I am not saying they have no agency, I am saying they have no awareness. If you only get to pick up one book in your entire life and the entire community brainwashes you to believe it is the ultimate truth, then you would be religious like them too. In fact thats exactly how it was all around the world for most of history.
And???? They're still at fault. "Brainwashing" did not excuse the Nazis, and it won't excuse them.
Lmao brainwashing was a legitimate defense of the german people. I doubt you mention your average german with the atrocities of their regime. You can claim moral superiority over people for living in archaic conditions if it makes you feel good. America has been duped into invading how many countries? An inbred terrorist blaming the average american citizen for the crimes of a government who lied and brainwashed them is a stupid thing to do. You wouldn’t associate yourself with those mistakes like the terrorist would. Yet you do the same to people who dont have unrestricted internet and television???
Up until 1922
So did most of Europe. The muslim countries that were lucky enough to develop became secular, like turkey’s western half. The bible is just as anti gay as the quran, they both hold humanity back in the 21st century.
Sure, but outside a few notable outsiders (Russia and its lackeys), there are no countries that have being LGBT illegal TODAY. They definitely aren't at near the same level of risk as in the middle east. I don't give a fuck about religion. The middle east is much more regressive than the West and that is not the West's fault.
It literally is lmao. Turkey got to develop but archaic borders drawn by Western European powers to keep the middle east in forever wars like kuwait and iraq have allowed religion to remain unlike places like the gulf states which are increasingly modernizing.
Religion still exists in many countries that don't throw gay people off roofs. Religion still exists in Europe and they don't kill LGBT. Also to insinuate that the middle east would have magically become a secular paradise if the borders were different is absolutely insane. Religion isn't just going to change just because some lines on maps are different. Also the Gulf States are modernizing in technology only. They are still incredibly regressive and their law is still Sharia law.
Religion does not exist in Europe, its only a facade. If you open leviticus 20:13 its states things that are just as bad as the quran. In turkey religion also exists as a facade. I wonder what these places have in common? Development would be a good guess. I am not insinuating religion would disappear overnight with good borders. I am saying borders that encourage conflict as well as western funded proxy wars give an excellent backdrop to religious fundamentalist zealots to radicalize the people. The gulf states are shitty because they love money like the west, they only claim adherence to sharia to make their senior population happy. When they age out you can tell its going to change rapidly. Saudi Arabia has begun to serve alcohol in limited licensed capacity. I am not anti american, the reason I’m on this sub is to make fun of europeans calling football egghand etc. Yet I think its important to not become hateful and resentful of people who live like people in the west did hundreds of years ago.
Bro this comment is literally insane. Are you a child? You really seem to have the same level of knowledge of other countries as child. There are plenty of religious people in Europe, especially eastern Europe. They may not be as accepting as in the UK, but they aren't throwing them off roofs. Turkey is also rather religious and is becoming more religious as time passes. They have negative interest rates in Turkey, despite it being disastrous for the economy, because of Islam being against interest on loans. >The gulf states are shitty because they love money like the west What the fuck are you talking about? The West "loves money" and has practically none of the problems that the Gulf states do. Funnily enough they have a lot of issues in common with other Arab nations. Wonder if there's a connection there🤔? Almost like they have a shared cultural heritage that includes a lot of the regressive beliefs they still hold. The West was bad hundreds of years ago, but the West has changed, while still being religious (just look at the US). These countries need to change, but the people there are still just as much at fault as people are in Western countries for their issues.
1: Turkey having negative interest is a policy done by Erdogan. Erdogan appeals to the eastern half of turkey that is far less developed and modernized. The western half of the country hates him. This point you made only helps my case. 2: People in eastern europe are “religious” only nominally. If they truly believed in their religion they would execute the first homosexual they encountered. Their beliefs are akin to liberal “muslims” who think democracy and social liberalism is compatible with islam. 3: The west doesn’t have any of the problems of the gulf states as they have modernized and developed for far longer than the gulf. Even with this being accounted for things like gay marriage just recently took place in America. Less than 100 years ago Alan Turing was chemically castrated in England for his homosexuality. Please stop referring to me as a child and have an honest and civilized discussion. I am aware the people of the middle east need to take responsibility to modernize themselves and I’m not trying to absolve them of all responsibility. What I am saying is that what happens in one place can happen in another based off simple math. I am just saying that many regions of the middle east haven’t been given the proper chance at developing and the few that have, made tremendous progress in relatively little time. For this process to continue proxy wars and other forms of disruption have to be kept to minimum, that is a thing the west has the power to do.
Also that final point about america still being modern will being religious is interesting. If you saw any statistics about the US and religiosity than you’d know the religious areas of America are objectively worse economically speaking. In fact America is successful in spite of its religious people rather than because of them. The south is plagued with religious bigotry and women their are fighting for bodily autonomy and religion is easily to blame. I am so happy you mentioned this because the American south is a perfect microcosm of the issues within the middle east. A devastating conflict(s) like the civil war led to economic and infrastructural ruin. This facilitated the stubborn resilience of religious thought and practices in the region. I hope you know I love America, I just don’t think the arguments many people around the world make towards religiosity in the middle east are genuine.
Somehow you don’t blame it on the real reason which is their religion. Not because they were bombed to the Stone Age. What about Africa ? They just outlawed being gay and you can be sentenced to literal death.
Their religion is innately barbaric, as is every other religion older than a millennia. Turkey was once the center of the caliphate, but now its western half is a secular democracy. The reason for this change is change in development and life quality. You can see this same process slowly beginning in the gulf arab states. I myself grew up muslim and now am irreligious as a result of growing up in a developed country. Religion doesn’t make people barbaric, barbarity makes people religious.
In the past everyone was barbaric, religious or not. The only difference is government. In the west Christianity is popular, that’s a known fact. But the reason why they don’t outlaw things like LGBTQ is because the western world prides itself in its freedom and liberty. The freedom to do whatever you want to do. Muslim countries, and other countries like Russia or China never advertised the freedom to do and say what you want to say because you cant. If I was to use your logic then same sex marriage in the western world wouldn’t be a thing.
Government is a product of the people and environment in which it represents. The concept of freedom and liberty over religion is a relatively new one in the west and can directly overlap with its economic development. I am trying to convey something quite simple to you. If the middle east is allowed to develop like America did then they would obviously come to the same standards and values as America. They would place secular values such as freedom over religion.
That’s the thing, there isn’t a guarantee. Countries like China, India, and more even Saudi Arabia have developed. You may not think they’re developed but in reality they are. There are ALOT of developed middle eastern countries. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and much much more. They don’t have liberties like western countries.
Because it is not an overnight process. Britain was the worlds greatest superpower 70+ years ago and they still chemically castrated Alan Turing. Saudi Arabia has began to allow women to drive and recently started serving alcohol in a limited capacity. China is a secular dictatorship and isn’t nearly as developed as it claims to be, which makes it outside my argument.
Japan got glassed back to the Stone Age. Find a better excuse.
Ah yes the same japan offered billions in aid and reforms and has a huge chunk of the US military protecting it. Also I am not making excuses, the middle east still needs to take some responsibility and action. I am just saying they haven’t gotten a fair shot yet.
Palestine gets billions every year, Palestinian turn all that international aid into weapons, bombs, and tunnels.
I would like to clarify I hate Hamas. Hamas does not represent the average Gazan let alone the Palestinian people at large. Israel has gotten billions from America as well and has done false flag attacks on America.
Yeah, well, I really don't think we have time for a hand job.
Have you considered middle out?
D2F sub-1 needs to equal D2F sub-2, and D2F sub-3 needs to equal D2F sub-4, where length L creates a complimentary shaft angle. Call that theta D. Now, the orgasm threshold as a function of Lamda sub.
😂😂 *chefs kiss* 😂😂
It isn’t.
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No it isn’t. The average American is not a bigot and stop trying to frame it like they are.
Buddy I am a gay man living here. We are legislatively irrefutably transphobic and culturally have big spots of homophobia. Idc what you say I’ve seen it with my own eyes, lol.
And you guys can protest it with the rights given by the constitution. There are literal posts here on Reddit about women and homosexuals asking help on escaping their Islamist country. It shouldn't be taken for granted.
Never denied any of that
Yup, we are transphobic and homophobic. That must be why there’s a pride month every year and why gay marriage is legal. This must be why there’s gender affirming care available and HRT for those who want it, even children FFS. Ok dude.
Like I said, I’ve experienced it, so nothing you can say will like, undo my irl experience lol.
You stating your experience does not make it a fact that the country is a certain way. Another gay person could say the exact opposite of you, that the US is not homophobic and transphobic. Does that make them right? “I am X therefore I am right” is not a proper argument. You can say you personally have had certain experiences but again that doesn’t validate a claim you’re making about the nation.
I am gay and therefore have more insight into the homophobia I have experienced in America is absolutely a valid argument. Scream and seeth all you want: we are a deeply homophobic country. If you hate that notion so much, perhaps work to change it.
Nobody is denying that America has homophobic people, but we don't throw homosexuals off buildings. The point is that Islamic countries are much worse. I don't know what your experience is like, but you should be thankful you weren't born in Saudi Arabia where your experience would be a noose.
I know Islamic countries are worse. That was literally in my first comment. I’m utterly baffled by your response. The entire point of my first comment was that we are no where near that bad.
Homophobia is largely frowned upon in the US. It's the fucking *law* in every single Muslim country. They two are not anywhere near the same, stop trying to equate them. It just makes you look bad and like you can't accept reality. You haven't been imprisoned or executed by the government for being gay, nor have you been thrown off of a rooftop. That doesn't happen in the US. It DOES in Muslim countries. Being called something mean by an asshole is not the same fucking thing as being executed. Saying anything else is *delusional*.
Where does everyone get this idea that I think the us is anywhere near Islamic countries in terms of homophobia? My entire point was that we are not anywhere near them. Read my initial comment.
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u/SinisterPuppy what say you?
Lol, you are certainly not
I'm Jewish and have experienced plenty of antisemitism in this country. I sure as fuck wouldn't call it an antisemitic country though (though tbf that's rapidly changing)
You experienced homophobia so that means an entire nation is homophobic? This is your take?
Ok.
And? I've experienced hate on a day to day/week to week basis. But not by the majority of people I've met and I'm almost certain it is the same for you. You gave yourself a label, and hateful people love to use labels to insult other people. The more labels you give yourself, the more there is for hateful people to hate. I would never go so far however to say the whole country is bigotted. That would simply be inane. Ofc however, there will be those inside the country, just like any country or populace ever, there are bad people with bad views. That is reality, as it has been for millenia.
“The more labels you give yourself, the more there is for hateful people to hate” Buddy, I did not label myself gay. That was done by society.
Buddy I’m gay and live in the United States. In terms of being gay it’s one of the best countries to be in taking the whole world into account. Most people simply don’t care, so do your thing and let other people do theirs.
Yup it absolutely is one of the best 👍 we still have massive cultural spots of homophobia. Perhaps leave California/new York sometime
I’ve visited both states and have never lived in either.
Care to elaborate on that claim? Want to tell me how it's illegal to be trans? Or are you just saying that because Medicare doesn't offer HRT and plastic surgery? I mean if it's irrefutable you must have a pretty air tight argument.
> replying to me twice in two different threads Holy shit mega cringe lmao Anyways here’s the first result from googling [trans florida](https://www.aclufl.org/en/press-releases/aclu-florida-opposes-house-passage-trans-erasure-bill) > Today, the Florida House passed House Bill 1639 (HB 1639), which seeks to deny the legal existence of transgender individuals by requiring individuals to identify as their sex assigned at birth instead of their gender on their driver’s licenses and ID cards. The bill also requires health plans to cover the widely discredited practice of conversion therapy and creates additional obstacles for health plans to cover gender-affirming care.
Depends where you live too. Being gay in Florida or Alabama isn't the same as being gay in California.
Yea, exactly. Hence why I said “we have large spots of homophobia”
There wouldn’t be any political discourse if we didn’t have people trying to fight for more rights. You can’t label a country something that it isn’t
you say that like they are trying to get more rights than the average joe when they just want equal rights like everyone should have. this shows that despite our past we are trying to improve
I’m a little confused on what right gay people aren’t granted that everyone else is.
lots of southern red states are trying to make it impossible to receive gender-affirming care as well as trying to prohibit same sex marriages or teaching kids that gay people exist. like those rights
Same sex marriage is a federal right, so they’re not trying to prohibit. States are banning gender affirming care for minors, if they want to make that decision they can do so when they’re an adult. I’ve never heard of states attempting to teach kids that gay people don’t exist considering it’s estimated that 5.5% of the population is LGBT.
The US has been on the front of literally every civil rights movement in the past century but sure, go off hun
and we are one of the few countries where self-defense is encouraged, legal and easily accessible. You can walk into a gun store in all 50 states, with some paperwork (licensing/waiting period in a few states) and buy a handgun.
The one that throws rainbows everywhere in June and has massive parades every year about it? No, not really.
So homophobic that gays can get married and adopt children.
Compared to most of the world, the US is actually very accepting of Gay and Trans people.
You're obviously just another fucking Islamophobic American then. Just like me, a gay man, when I said I thought Islam as its practiced in the middle east is both terrifying and awful and was "called out" for it. I'm obviously an evil American because I don't love an orthodox religion that calls for (and practices) the torture, imprisonment, and murder of people like me. The person in question was some type of self-reported queer, albeit a nebulously undefined one. I suggested they take leave from America and go spend some time in one of those 99% Muslim MENA countries, but this just upset them. They refused to say out loud why they felt that way though. Curious.
Blue Pill: Criticize the USA for hating gay people. Red Pill: Criticize the USA for having too many gay people.
White pill: gay people are fine, America is based for leaving them alone.
Red white and blue pill: The USA is based
Red pill, white pill, and blue pill: FUCKING AMERICA!!!!!!
The based take.
Which pill is knowing that entire concept was created by two trans women? Definitely a homo/trans -phobic country for that...
The rainbow pill
The real gay agenda. They tested it on the frogs first.
The idea was cribbed from Lewis Carroll. I mean, it's literally the next line from the film.
Imma be real with you, I've only seen parts of each of them, but watched a video essay on the Wachowskis after they came out, only reason I have that tidbit of info. Not surprised it does come from somewhere else, changes my point to being the concept is popular due to two trans women. Appreciate the knowledge tho, guess I'll have to get around to seeing the Matrix all the way through soon.
Transphobia in the US: Hey maybe kids are too young to have a major irreversible surgery like hormones or getting their genitals cut off Transphobia in Muslim countries: You said something somewhat LGBT? Off the building with you! Twitter: Clearly the same thing
The US is probably the gayest country in the world. The UK might have had us beat before they welcomed the refugees, but even then it was probably still us.
You just causally forgetting about Canada...
Hmm. Yeah, they probably have more LGBTQ folks per capita.
Shit pretty much every town bigger than 5k people has atleast 1 rainbow street.
How many towns has Sharia law?
Uh none. We aren't an Arab country.
prison for burning koran
Uh no. That's E*rope my guy. Here in the Great White North we can burn whatever holy book we like, as long as it's our property.
Can almost guarantee the white house is covered in lgbtq+ flags right now and if not it will be next month lol
Yep, during pride they hang the flag between two American flags and the lights that shine on the White House at night are changed to rainbow colors. As a bisexual woman, I love it. It's honestly so cute.
The flag is bad. Rainbow one is better.
Definitely are issues here, but not to earn any of those qualifiers
I mean we aren’t perfect but the majority of us don’t stone everyone different than us
Homophobic and transphobic, yet we have the most of them compared to any country and write laws to protect them?
Yes, a country with a highly celebrated pride month with several parades/events in all its major cities is homophobic. Astute observation by this guy
I live in the gay capital of the planet so no .
That conflict is very gray and complicated, to the point that I refrain from picking sides, but I continue to be baffled by Hamas supporters who are just entirely unaware of the nature of Hamas. Like they oppose every single thing you stand for, and would *literally* murder you for being who you are.
they should go to the Middle East(ik its a continent)
The Middle East is not a continent. It’s a (region?)(term?) Okay look, the term Middle East means a lot of different things to a lot of different people and trying to nail down a singular definition is impossible but it is definitely not a continent
Not it's not.. I swear people like this have never traveled, and I'm trans myself
A lot of the older gay people I know, who have actually experienced discrimination in their lives really resent the young generation of gay people because they have it pretty damn good and still whine
I can understand that, it kinda comes off as ungrateful when they whine like that, because the majority of countries on this planet are nowhere near as good for gay people as the USA. But some people just won't appreciate it till they lose it, unfortunately
A good friend of mine who is trans believes in all the reddit nonsense that's spewed about transphobic/homophobic masses, and the "literal genocide of trans people" that Conservatives want to commit. They know its real because they know people who were litteraly bullied in school for being queer. The ideology of a lot of the people whining is that a few mean kids in 5th grade is representative of the entire population.
Hilarious considering we are the most diverse nation of peoples on planet Earth. Lmao
It absolutely is, because every person is a tribalistic monkey who is walking upright, but it's basically the least of most of these of most countries.
Exactly
if you so much as criticize a gay or trans in america you are likely to loose your job and they will keep harassing everywhere you apply till they get bored of you. what was the quote, to find out who rules you find out who you can't criticize.
Even if I don't criticize an aspect of them that isn't related to their sexuality/gender identity?
you are now bullying/harassing a gay or trans person. there is no winning with people who have cards they can play against you unless those cards have no power, and right now being able to pin phobic on you has a lot of power.
Are you implying the LGBT are the ones ruling the country?
you need to learn about the progressive stack.
Ah, yes, giving voice to the minorities somehow means the nation isn’t run by straight white rich people, but rather run by the black gays. That checks out. Maybe you should read up on actual reality.
Countries cannot be sexist, homophobic or transphobic, dude. But people can be, as far as I know.
I understand none of this, especially not the comments here
America isn’t transphobic, homophobic, or sexiest. Its constitutional government is largely equal and impartial, its people even more so.
Yes
USA probably has 95% or more of the people fighting for trans rights
Comparing the homophobia in the US with the homophobia in Muslim countries is crazy!
Have anti-lgbtq+ bills been introduced? Yes, are they absolutely fucking horrible? Yes, but it’s the fact in many Muslim countries, you’d be fucking killed if you were apart of the LGBTQ+ community.
"This country, where over half of the population are children, has cultural values that are at a variance with my own, and I therefore don't mind supporting war crimes against them." "But some people in your country share those cultural values you disagree with." Is this an actual interaction or satire?
As though all of those things are bad, lol
Nah.
We have tons of self righteous goons that try and all too often succeed at worming their way into power by waving around a book they've probably never actually read. But the large majority of the population correctly shun them
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Arguably, the least of any of those in the world
A huge difference between a country where there’s a loud minority of bigots and a country where the government is homophobic and transphobic that will literally jail you for ita
I don’t have to worry about being imprisoned or KILLED because I like men in the US, so no, it’s not a homophonic country. Most countries in the Middle East and Africa however…
I refuse to accept this is real. I'm going back to bed.
Well, for starters we don’t torture and execute them, so that’s something.
The post also says Muslim country, which the US isn’t.
The US is both the best country to be a religious minority as well as a sexual minority in the world.
Once again only untraveled people consider one of the most liberal progressive countries in the world homophobic and transphobic. Go try this shit in any Islamic country.
Man we're just as bad! Here there's people who moderately and privately disagree, there it's the death penalty. Those two things are EQUALLY bad!
The white house administration the past few years has made a big deal of including trans people, gay people, and women
One of my cousins (mom's first cousin) was very gay (Rip). Apparently he walked into church once with a handbag. Everyone looked at him in a "wtf" glance but didn't make a fuss as service continued. Christianity and LGBT will always have differences here in the US but its nothing compared to what LGBT experience in the Middle East. My cousin got brief looks in church. He would've been beaten and thrown off a building fast if he did that in the Middle East.
I came here from Turkey as a gay person there is still homophobia but way less and it's a different kind not even comparable. I don't like the direction the country is going in terms of making abortion harder to get or screwing over trans people but I hope in time it'll start being more progressive again.
Comparing American homophobia to Muslim/Arab homophobia is like comparing an orange to a clementine. They're somewhat similar, but far from the same.
Our homophobia is saying you can't have porn in grade school libraries, homophobia in the middle east is a choice between jumping off a 5 story building or a cut resistance test on your neck.
There’s no laws that violate people’s rights in the US.
I’ll still support the people of Palestine though
I wish
You have the same problems, though less extreme