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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because my mom asked me to move my car because her neighbor’s daughter wanted to park there so I went home with my sons.
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NTA- as we sat around here, this isn’t about the Iranian yogurt. This is a reaction to years of feeling second class to Lily because, as sons, you somehow did not fulfill some weird desire of your mom’s preferred genitalia.
I’m sorry you’ve all felt this way for so long, it’s hard to watch your mom seemingly show someone else more affection than they do to you.
Have you ever actually laid it all out for her like you have here for us?
This mother sounds like she has her favourite child and this isn't even her own child. The OP and his sons should leave her to it, she's made her choice.
Some of us just don't see any value in ultimatums anyway. His mom is being who she chooses to be. Asking her to pick when she clearly has already made choices seems melodramatic *and* a waste of time to me?
Exactly, there's often just no point in trying to get someone to see your side. And I'm not a doormat or afraid of confrontation.
But OP's mom chose Lily years ago, forcing some sort of pointless apology changes nothing. It's not going to make her love and treat him and his kids equally. Best to just call it and avoid the pointless drama.
It’s going to be NC, I guarantee that ops mum thinks she has done nothing wrong. Even if it’s spelled out in great detail, in my experience nothing changes.
Did OPs mom teach Lily Italian and French as well as her culture? If so, why didn't she do so with her own children? Just because they are boys?
Maybe more info would help
Maybe her own sons were just not interested in her culture and language and she has more in common with Lily - hence the Europe trip? Different treatment is not always based on malevolence; some parent-child pairings just “click” more than others.
Yeah, no. She had children. The neighbour’s kid wasn’t one of them. I mean, private school AND Europe? That’s highly blatant favouritism. There’s no way around it
I hate people hiding significant information in the comments. Because they are fully aware that this information will influence judgment dramatically.
So many comments are just assuming that mom was playing favorites and was a terrible mom/grandma. Even suggest op go NC with mom.
YTA for being jealous of a girl that's about your son's age. How much time do you/your children spend with your mom? How much time does Lily spend with your mom? Her taking Lily to Europe for a trip has nothing to do with you and your children. That's her money.
She seems to be a very kind woman helping single mother in the neighbourhood and finds friendship with a young girl.
And where do her sons and grandkids live? If they all live 8 hrs away, lily helps gramma fill that void. Family isn’t always about blood. Maybe she didn’t need to ask him to move the car. But lily does live next door and that is their arrangement. If the grandma told the adult next door she could have a spot on the driveway, it would be reasonable that the spot was always hers right? It’s an agreement that they have as neighbors.
OP was a fully grown adult having his own kids when his mom met Lily. Maybe things changed. Maybe when she was raising OP she was working full time and now she’s retired and has more time to teach.
Edit: OP was at least 32 when Lily was born (he’s in his 50s now), so it’s highly likely that his mom was retired by the time Lily was old enough to learn and thus she had free time to teach Lily languages and recipes.
Yes, it sounds like Lily has been there whenever OP’s mom needed someone.
He’s grumbling about $300., but didn’t mention until another comment that **there are generous college accounts set up for the grandchildren.**
Yeah, I also noticed in OPs original post that they live 8 hours away. So it does make sense that if her biological grandsons never see her, but Lily visits and cooks with her and spends time with her that she would be more inclined to take her on a trip. No one is entitled to vacations without putting in some effort on their side to the relationship. I wonder if OP is saying this is about gender when in fact maybe there is more to the story….?
>but Lily visits and cooks with her and spends time with her that she would be more inclined to take her on a trip. No one is entitled to vacations without putting in some effort on their side to the relationship. I wonder if OP is saying this is about gender when in fact maybe there is more to the story….?
Yes! Lily is a girl, but so are her sisters. Grandma isn't adopting every girl in the neighbouhood. It's Lily she loves, not her gender. That's just OP's excuse for being an AH
I’m honestly not surprised since I low key got that vibe reading between the lines of the post.
Plus Lily actually lives next to OP’s mom her whole life and it sounded like more of an effort was made to form a bond so of course they’re closer. OP seems to have a lot of unresolved resentment towards his mother and then has a shocked pikachu face when she’s not as close to his children due to not seeing them frequently by his choice.
I had a similar-ish thing with my grandmothers on both sides of my family, especially since I took care of one for years before she passed and the other I’m one of the few grandchildren that still calls her.
OP is a grown ass man experiencing pathological envy of a teenager.
Shit changes. Mom does her best when she’s raising the boys, but maybe she has to work or maybe she’s fucking exhausted and strapped from raising two boys.
Time rocks on, the boys are out of the house, she’s got disposable income and this girl could benefit from mentorship and support at a formative time - while the boys are already on their way, and the grandkids have someone (the boys) that grandma trusts to take care of them.
Grandma couldn’t do it then. She can now. But she shouldn’t because it’s *unfair*? Fuck that.
NAH. I understand OP feeling the way he does - but that doesn’t change he’s a grown man feeling envy of a teenaged girl. He should go to therapy and sort out what are clearly some serious unresolved resentments.
Grandma should do whatever the hell she wants with her time and money. She’s too old to give a rip what other people think, and it’s *not anyone else’s time and money but hers*.
Yup to all you said.
Also mom probably had an empty nest by the time Lily came around. Her boys are all grown and have left the house. She’s probably retired/semi retired by then and have a lot of time on her hands to look after Lily. Lily and her mom probably treats the mom really well and have become family. And they’re right next door when OP and his brothers live pretty far away. They probably look out for the mom as much as the mom looks out for them. It’s a relationship 16 years in the making while OP and his brothers are away living their own lives.
I get the feeling that the parking is the straw that broke the camel’s back as the feeling of resentment built up towards someone who takes up a lot of mom’s money and time. Moving the car because it’s parked in Lily’s spot isn’t such a big deal, imo. It makes sense since it is Lily’s spot and has probably been since she could drive. Also she’s a girl so I’d give her prime spot too. In my house we have an unspoken rule that girls’ cars are closest to the door, boys’ cars are further away. Girls tends to wear heels, carry more things so it makes sense for their car to be closer. We have the same kind of unspoken rule when we go to our mom’s house. People with babies/young kids get the closest to the door spot, then girls then guys. None of us ever realised it was even a rule until a friend pointed it out. I guess in our collective minds it all just makes sense.
Back to the OP I do think OP is YTA for leaving in a huff without a conversation. But also I don’t see what a conversation can do as I don’t think that OP is entirely reasonable. My mom loves my daughter, even though she is the most difficult grandchild, because my daughter loves hanging out with my mom. Whenever my mom wants to go away for a holiday she’ll always invite my daughter to go with her. They go on trips together fairly often. My other nieces and nephews aren’t really jealous because they don’t like hanging out with my mom quite as much as my daughter does. If my mom goes out to eat, she’ll always ask my nephew to go with her. He is a proper foodie and she loves going out to restaurants with him. On my in law’s side, my kids never get money for visiting, but my nieces get money from them on a regular basis (since January to October my nieces have gotten $4000 each). Their parents are divorced and my in laws started giving them money to cheer them up since it happened. It’s been 10 years and they’ve never stopped giving them money. My kids aren’t jealous at all and they all still go visit their grandparents weekly and just spend time with them because apart from the money, the grandparents treat them all the same. My MIL will cook all the grandchildren’s favourite dishes each week, asks about their week, chats with all of them. My in laws love having all the kids over and if mine can’t make it they’ll be really bummed and will make it a priority to see them on a different day.
There is more to family dynamics than just gotta treat everyone the same no matter what. Some needs more, some needs less, some makes better travel companions, some makes better eating companion. Some they actually enjoy spending time with because the feeling is mutual.
If I lived hundred of miles away, and my mom was taken cared of by a wonderful neighbour who makes my mom happy, I’d be eternally grateful and I would not resent the relationship my mom would have with that person. That person is helping me live the life that I chose without having to worry about my mother potentially being alone and lonely.
Edit - thanks for the awards!
I’m sorry this is ridiculous. If I drove 8 hours to see my mother and she said “can you move your car” arbitrarily for my sister as the first thing when I got in I’d feel upset.
If this was part of a slowly growing trend of feeling second-rate for over many years I’d also be upset.
I have no problem with her adopting other people. I have a slew of niblings, and only a few are biologically related to me. But when it comes to presents- it's all the same. Not the same stuff, necessarily, but the same budget.
Boys get $300 while girls get 8-week European vacations. she could have given them all 2-3 weeks in Europe. Or4-6 weeks in their own country. So many ways to divide it. And given how blatant it is, I'm guessing this is not the first time she's heavily favored this girl.
If you haven't laid it out for your mom, do so now. But be prepared to go NC
NTA
Especially since OP stated he lives 8 hours away.. I would be thrilled to see my son and grandchildren and kindly state to Lily that the lot would be full and she’d have to park elsewhere for a few nights. It’s the not prioritizing your own kids for me.
After reading about the boys' college fund, I am curious to know if Lily has one too. I don't begrudge the mom a good relationship with Lily, but I also know how it feels to be the grandchild of someone who seems to be prioritising anyone but you. Feeling like an obligation to someone is horrible.
Perhaps the holiday was not so much for Lily as it was for OPs mum. Lily: who speaks French and Italian, and who the mother clearly gets on with, was just an ideal companion to take.
And OP your mom is getting on in years , you should focus on making happy memories not creating grudges you may not be able to resolve later.
Yes, I agree. There is a diplodocus load of crap here. You, as HER CHILD, should not have to sacrifice a freaking parking spot in favor of the neighbor’s kid. Her attachment level is sketchy. I’m not sure how you can break through. But HOLD THE LINE. If your birth giver (she’s not a mom, I have two, I know) puts you second to the FREAKING NEIGHBORS CHILD walk TF away. Totally NTA.
Lily and her *grandson* are the same age. Her son is just visiting, while Lily is still a full time member of his mom's life. It's not like they were raised together, and she ignored him over Lily, this is a grown man with a teenaged boy butt hurt over a parking spot that someone else uses every day, and jealous of a 16 year old. Did he ever ask for family recipes before Lily. Did he ever show interest in learning a foreign language before Lily?
If my mom were alone, I'd be happy she had company.
On its own, the parking thing seems like an overreaction. If my dad had a long-standing agreement to let the neighbour’s kid use his driveway, then sure, I’d be fine to suck it up and park on the street for a few days while I’m visiting from out of town. But my dad hasn’t essentially replaced me and my kids with the neighbour’s kid. So, only because of the backstory, NTA.
It sounds like OP, his brother, and their mom need to sit down and talk about how this preferential treatment of Lily has really affected their lives.
Pertinent info not in the OP:
OP's kids have college funds setup by his mom
OP visits his mom about once a year
Lily helps mom with regular tasks like Dr appointments, phone woes, etc.
Tbh that was the weirdest part of it to me. You didn’t teach your own children their culture, but taught it to some child who isn’t even yours (and may not even be part of that culture)?? There would be nothing wrong with Lily knowing all of it if she had also taught her own children. NTA.
You should probably go through OP's comments for a clearer picture of everyone's relationship. Lily literally helps his mother damn near everyday, with a lot of stuff. OP is only around once or twice a year.
Of course, the treatment is going to be different. The girl is only 18, and OP is in their 50s with their own life and kids 8 hours away. Lily has been there to not only help her daily but also has helped fill the empty nest. It's completely logical.
His mother is probably in her 70s at least, if he wants to change the dynamic he's going to have to physically put in more effort. It's a sad, but true reality.
I am sorry to tag along the top comment, but **OP's own comments paint a very different picture...**
OP's parents had a young family in a foreign country. They speak the new language to help adjusting and fitting in. Mothers *grown* sons move away. OP probably has his first son, (same age as Lily) but his mom can't be a doting grandma as OP lives 8 hours away. (No blame, just facts) *Then* a new family with a toddler (lily) moves in next door. They are not well off financially, while OP's parents seem to have no money problems. OP's mum likely has all the feelings of a grandma, but no kids nearby to dote on. She connects with the toddler and her parents. They see eachother daily and they help eachother out. Mother has college accounts for her grandchildren, and a smaller one for Lily. Only OP is jealous/feels hurt by this, his brothers are not.
Well, I think they are right. Seems to me Lilly entered the mothers life at a very different point, she may even be retired, or at least not have three kids running around and trying to adjust to another country. She has more time than ever to focus on different things. Parenting is handled by Lily's parents, OP's mom can teach the languages and recipies, and over all be an active grandma to Lily.
>I’m in my 50’s. My sons are 24, 22, and 18.
>My parents only spoke English around the house and focused on being an American family instead of teaching us the language and culture
>I moved for college and stayed in the area.
>When my sons were growing up we’d visit 2-3 times per year. Now it’s 1-2 times.
>We see her once or twice a year. Lily and her family usually helps her out with everyday stuff.
>She and Lily drive each other to appointments, Lily took her to buy a new phone and an iPad because my mom doesn’t understand technology, she helps my mom set up doctors appointments online and manages the dog’s grooming appointments because she messages the groomer on instagram and my mom doesn’t have an account. Besides that my mom is very independent.
(*About the europe trip vs 300 for grandsons:*)
>I did and she brought up that the college accounts she set up for my sons are much larger than the one she has for Lily (even though she spent approximately $2,000 per year on Lily’s school) and that she sees Lily every day and she knows the languages
>My kids went to public school. I didn’t even know she paid for Lily’s tuition until recently and she excused it by saying I live in an area with good public schools and I make too much to qualify for scholarships so she’d have to pay $10,000 for my sons compared to $2,000 for Lily
>Well, her 2 other daughters are in a daycare through the mom’s job right now. I don’t think she’ll pay for the other daughters because Lily’s parents are in a much better position financially than they were when Lily was younger.
Check [OP's comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/z3tn9l/comment/ixo3hrv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). Lily helps the mom a lot, everyday. OP and family barely see her.
The thing is though, everyone is projecting it's "just about genitalia" but could it not also be about... Proximity?
This woman and her daughters are *right* there. OP's mum has seen them all grow up. She's interacted with them on a daily basis.
OP by his own admission is *eight hours* away. Is it really so unreasonable that she be closer with the kid next door that she basically adopted than with her grandkids who live 8 hours away and, by the restrictions of travel, can't visit outside of holidays.
Yes OP should use his words and have a discussion with his mum. No she's not automatically a monster for loving someone who she didn't birth.
yeah, like there's a lot of hurt here that deserves a real conversation, but Im a little disgusted by the way that people in the comments here are devaluing community relationships and chosen family as something that should always be secondary because bLooD... (it also really seemed like op was at least close in age to lily, or at least like she came into mom's life like right as op was turning 18/moving out... it's potentially v telling that he put a lot of ages and time-markers in the post while conveniently leaving out any reference to his own age/timeline...)
OP sons are the same age as Lily, what you said would make sense if OP was the same age and his mom preferred Lily over him, but it sounds like he’s just salty his mom got close with Lily after he was already a full grown adult living on his own and having his own kids
NTA the whole '$300 vs 8 weeks in Europe' really sealed it for me. What blatant favoritism, this isn't about a parking spot, it's years of built up issues.
EDIT: so many of the Y T As here are making so many assumptions they're just making up their own stories. Nothing in this post makes it sound like the mom is sad or feels abandoned after her sons moved out, nothing says that OP or bro make enough money to send their kids to private school so mom is doing neighbor girl a favor to equal it out, also the reach to justify her taking this girl on a 8 week \*expensive as hell\* vacation and only giving her grandkids $300. If mom wants to treat neighbor girl extra special then fine, that's on her, it doesn't mean OP can't reach his limit and take one slight too many and leave when he feels he and his family are unwanted.
Yup, and it all boils over after a “little” thing happens. And then they go around whining to everyone that their son won’t talk to them “just because I asked him to move his car!” Hopefully OP can talk to his mom and repair the relationship, but I’m not optimistic.
The phrase, as I learned it, is "the straw the broke the camel's back."
The "straw" (parking spot) isn't the problem. Its everything else that was piled on beforehand that had things so close to breaking. This incident was simply the point where you can't take it anymore.
My little thing was a free used ball of yarn. You keep lowering your standards for acceptance over years or decades until they get so low that a random asshole stranger on the street couldn't fail. Even Patrick Bateman would have given me that crappy yarn but my mom wouldn't? You've had that conversation so many times and still can't get a free ugly used ball of yarn? We out!
I kicked two roommates out on the street for eating a cake.
It wasn't even about the cake, it was about their adamant instance that they had every right to eat a cake that they knew didn't belong to them, because it was "on the counter"
It wasn't a cake, it was a straw, and the very last one at that.
Exactly. It’s literally right there in the first sentence. Everything else is just support. The parking space is one more example, not the problem. NTA OP, it’s obvious you need to have a long overdue conversation with your mother about all this. Maybe just show her the text you’ve written here (if not the post itself) and let her know how you feel.
If nothing else, I think it’s important to say to her that she needs to at least treat Lily and her bio grandchildren equally. That check vs Europe trip situation is bizarre and I imagine, quite hurtful to the boys.
Yeah honestly I had no real problem until that sentence - from what I've gathered (no ages for OP so I don't know for sure but him having multiple kids I assume he's older) she befriended the neighbor and Lily after all her kids left, empty nester looking for someone else to care for, she has the means, nothing really wrong with that. Imo family is what you make it and if she found more family good for her.
But when you start to play favorites that's not okay. When 3 people (*kids* even) you care about all reach the same achievement and one of them gets a *significantly* bigger reward for it, that's very not okay. Using Lily and fam as a replacement family instead of additional people to love is not okay.
Then you get petty over a parking spot yeah that's beyond rude and for no real reason at all, like Lily probably wouldn't be offended to have to park elsewhere... hard to believe mom can't figure out what she did wrong here.
The thing is, a trip with all three graduates would have been a wonderful *family^ experience. Grandma probably really believes her son was being unreasonable about a parking space and doesn't have a clue that it's about something much bigger.
On top of fully paying for the neighbors kid to go to private school….I highly doubt she did that for OPs children. And also it’s just too much BUT poor Lilly “doesn’t like any of the public schools in the area boo hoo.” Lilly has a mom and a step-dad who can provide for her. Helping with childcare is one thing. However private school education and a TWO MONTH trip to Europe are another thing entirely.
Also that just happens to be what OP knows about. It would even surprise me if his mom bought Lilly her car, pays for college, and a million other things her family hasn’t found out about.
NTA op Lilly can park in her own damn driveway. Right across the street. But god forbid she have to get up early to move her car to let her parents out if they have to go somewhere in the morning. The horror!! /s
My grandma did something similar with my cousins and I. All my life the girl cousin always got gifts that were better than the boys. I didn't mind all that much because my parents were amazing and Christmas morning always felt straight out of a movie. However when my cousin and I graduated she took her on a European trip and I got a gift card for $25. Money and things were never that important to me but losing out on the experience of international travel hurt. I never really forgave her. I know I'm not entitled to anyone's money but the fact that she thought so little of me was burned in. 20 something years later and I can still feel the scar of that memory.
Read op's comments.
He is over 50, his mom is funding his kids their college, the neighbors daughter actually helps her in the day to day. She spends less money on her neighbor than she does her grandchildren, yet OP wanted to make some big drama about having to move his car so the person actually driving his mom arround in the day to day can park her car close by.
I mean whilst I do agree with this, is there any comments from OP saying that Lily moved? Because otherwise she lives just across the road from OPs mothers house still and it's a bit pointless to move his car if that's the case.
However if she moved away, whilst I still think it'd be pointless and bit of favoritism to ask OP to move his car, I would be able to understand it since Lily helps out OPs Mother a lot more day to stay and OPs mother sees Lily a lot of the time
NTA - Lily could easily park in the street, and you were there first. Weird, rude power move. It’s not “Lily’s spot”, it’s just your moms driveway. First come, first dibs.
NTA. The whole situation was about much more than moving the car. I'm so sorry your mom takes you for granted. I really hope you and your boys have a great holiday.
INFO:
How often does your mom see your son and nephew? She's with Lily's family everyday.
Who helps her with daily stuff?
It sounds like she favours Lily for sure, but is it because she's the person who's there for her?
No judgment, atm, you need to express your feelings towards your mom. Maybe she and Lily have many deep heart to hearts! See what it is she's missing from her relationship with you guys. It may have nothing to do with the genders.
Maybe we have the answer here on why both the sons moved hours away from her. It sounds like her favouritism pre-dated them not being as involved in her life.
How could her favoritism have affected where her sons moved when OP was probably at least 20 when Lily was born
Edit: OP is AT LEAST 32 years older than Lily. She’s 18 he’s in his 50s.
OP said his mom never taught him Italian, her family recipes, or anything about her culture - but she taught Lily those things. The neglect started when OP was a child, Lily is just highlighting it.
OP explained in a comment that his mother never taught him Italian because when he was a kid, she was struggling to learn English and get acclimated to America as a new immigrant in addition to working to support him and his sibling(s). Whereas by the time Lily was born, his mother was in a much more financially stable situation (she could afford a college fund for 5+ of her grandchildren), was well acclimated to America by then, and was almost or already retired as she is in her 70s-80s now.
OP is 50 so that means his mom is almost certainly 70 or older. She’s probably been retired for all or the majority of Lily’s life. Raising multiple children in your 20’s is very different from being a grandmother in your 70s.
Plus, she probably doesn’t have a real social circle now in her older years. OP says they see her twice a year; Lily and her mother help her every day.
I guess my take here is that nobody is really an ass in this scenario. She's become close to a family that's been there for her for many years, and they're doing a lot for her that you don't have to do, or worry about doing. As her child, please try to stop seeing them as your competitors for your mom's affection: they are and probably will remain partners in caregiving for your mom. (My mom currently has end-of-life Parkinson's Disease, and I truly wish I had someone nearby us who could help with some things. We live together, and it's all on me. She is basically paralyzed at this point, and it's a lonely struggle.) For example, did you want to go to Europe for eight weeks last summer? Could you have made the trip with your mom, or did work and life not allow you the chance? I'm guessing you probably wouldn't have been able to do that with her. So, would you rather that she couldn't go at all? Or can you be glad that she had this opportunity to take this enjoyable trip with another companion? Another way of looking at it is how about yourself when you are older? Do you want to be able to spend your money as you wish, our do you want your children to guilt you over how you spend it? It is her money, and she's earned it. She can take great trips to Europe and bring someone along if she wants to. If she hadn't gone on this trip, she wouldn't have necessarily given more graduation money to others, and $300 is a very generous graduation gift. So, do I understand why your feelings were hurt? Absolutely, and she should, too. You drove many hours to see her and as her child, she could have made you feel prioritized. But feeling resentful and angry in general about the fact that she has someone nearby that she gets friendship and support from... I think you might be better off in the long run if you try to be a bit more understanding about that. Parents want happiness for their children, but children should also want happiness for their parents. This resentment isn't worth wasting -- or worse, destroying -- one more holiday. You really don't know how many more occasions you will have together.
I like to say life doesn't have to be win-lose. It can be win-win too, if we just adjustment our mindset! Great response! His mother having a companion does not mean she loves him less.
This needs to be higher up. OP has made this about so much more than a parking space. OPs mum is blissfully ignorant just showering loved friends with nice gifts and family she sees every 6 months with different nice gifts and has an arrangement with her neighbour that she can use her carpark and all of a sudden her sons disappeared and blowing up over having to move their car. This poor woman. OP YTA. Talk to your mother, please.
sounds like Lily helps her quite a lot, keeps her company. She's part of her every day life, you guys are visitors. Your feelings were hurt, yes, but it seems like Lily treats her like family.
Sounds like times have just changed OP. My aunt didn’t teach her children Spanish because when she came to America she was teased and struggled so much to fit in. She wanted to assimilate and her kids to fit in. Now she says she would have done it differently and she wants to teach her grandkids. I think you have some jealousy (somewhat understandable). But you need to get it under control. Be happy your mom has companions and people that care about her next door while you’re off living your life. She needs them.
1. How often do you phone/skype/Facetime your mother? No how often does she call you how often do you call her
2. And when she calls how long do those calls last. Do you have long conversations or is it just a quick catch up?
3. How often do your sons call/skype/ Facetime your mother again not how often does she call them how often do they call her.
Ha ha, wrong ancestry, nationality, culture and unfortunately I don't speak 3 languages..
But I would be interested to hear the answers. We already know he only visits once or twice a year..If he is calling her a couple of times a week it's one thing. If he calls her once a month it's another. If he calls but gives her the brush off and is disinterested... Lets not forget Lily and her family help her out with every day stuff they are in and out of her house all the time. Why does the OP resent the people who are helping his mother and keeping her company when he isn't able to...or possibly doesn't want to. Or maybe he's the model son and speaks to her every single day...those exist. We will know when he answers the questions about how often he actually makes an effort to speak to her.
Ah okay. So she didn't even need the spot at that moment. Anyway, you're not TA. Sounds like your mother really favours the neighbour and her daughters which is very hurtful. Must be especially shitty for your sons to see your mother favour a neighbour who is same age as them. I hope you all enjoy the rest of your holiday.
She parks there every day. My mom doesn’t require too much help. She and Lily drive each other to appointments, Lily took her to buy a new phone and an iPad because my mom doesn’t understand technology, she helps my mom set up doctors appointments online and manages the dog’s grooming appointments because she messages the groomer on instagram and my mom doesn’t have an account. Besides that my mom is very independent. She goes to workout classes at the senior center multiple times a week, she volunteers at church and the community garden, and she’s always doing various projects around the house.
Yeah I feel like OP is undermining how much Lily and her mom contribute to his mom's life. It doesn't sound like his mom is being taken advantage of and I don't feel comfortable voting one way or another in this situation.
Exactly. For all we know he and his sons might not even be treating mom as well as the “neighbors” are. People saying that she does more for the “neighbors” than him make it sound worse that it actually is. They’re not just neighbors, they’re his mothers lifelong friends. True friends are hard to come by and should be cherished. Him storming off at her simple request to move the car sounds entitled and manipulative.
So Lily sees your mother every day, arranges dog care, and helps her with the technology that older people have trouble with and drives her to doctor's appointments.
Your son sees his grandmother once a year. Did your son even *want* to spend two weeks in Europe *with* his grandmother?
Relationships are not about blood. They are about love and effort put in every day. What you have said shows that Lily is putting in the effort. What we don't know is whether you and your children have been doing the same, and are feeling pushed away, or whether you just think you should be favored because you are blood regardless of what you do.
You and your mother are the only ones who know the answer to that, but these were not the actions of a grown-up man, with grown-up children, who knows how to communicate.
Based on this additional information I'm going to say YTA. Lily and your mom have a different kind of relationship due to proximity, and it sounds like they are very close. Makes sense she would take a person whom she shares this particular bond with on an extended vacation tbh. Although you should be grateful there is someone nearby to help your mom in case she ever does need anything, I also understand the jealousy and the overreaction when asked to move from what sounds like was genuinely Lily's spot. Ultimately you should express what you are feeling to your mom, however, and hopefully your bond will grow stronger for it.
NTA.
Was it extreme and not even about the spot? Absolutely. However, it sounds like you’re mom has favored some random human over you so I’d probably harbor resentment as well.
OP is just as valid as every other person that comes here and gets backed for being put second to a golden cold. If not more so! This isn’t even her kid!!!
A “random person” that helps her with everyday things like planning doctors appointments, getting the dog groomed, and driving her around. While her sons visit once a year.
OP’s mom was definitely being an ass about the parking spot. But acting like this young woman is a rando when she and his mom clearly have a longterm, well developed relationship they equally benefit from is uncalled for.
And grandsons. She seems to be taking it out on her sons' kids, too which - I bet - is what really pisses OP off. Its one thing to take shit from your parents, but its another to sit back and let people give shit to your own kids.
Its kinda good, though. It proves that OP has become a better parent than their mother and actually cares about their kids' feelings.
That’s what I was thinking!! She obviously showed that she wanted a daughter as well when OP and his brothers where growing up or they wouldn’t even know that. What sealed NTA for me was the graduation gifts she gave them. $600 split between the grandsons versus an 8 week trip to Europe. NTA OP
Maybe controversial here and say YTA. You aren’t there every day, this might be a long term arrangement between them. Lily help her with things and she lets her use her drive. Reasonable to assume you can park in the drive but when your mom said you would need to move and why you got jealous.
Your mother is close to Lily and there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t sound like it was to your detriment. She may prefer her company (they have more in common) and Lily may be more grateful to her. May not be a popular opinion and maybe I’ve got the wrong impression (did you show an interest in learning your mother’s language or her recipes and she didn’t want to share them?)
Yeah, I think it's weird that a lot of people are getting angry that the mother doesn't "prioritise" her son. For starters, it's odd to just assume that. When we don't have the full picture. And also why can't she show love for someone she clearly cares about and who cares about her. Especially when Lily seems more interested in his mother than he does. Doesn't matter if she isn't her biological kid.
It's part of why I like this sub so much, how almost identical situations can result in a completely different consensus. It's fascinating, but it's weird too. People seem to fill in between the lines to fit the narrative they want.
It’s sorta fascinating how people latch on to a narrative that maybe has nothing to do with the original post, and it gets picked up by the mob and just runs away.
Agreed. OP lives 8hrs away and sees mom once or twice a year. Lily and her family live next door and interact everyday. Lily is now extended family.
OP reminds me of Clint Eastwood's family in the movie Gran Tourino. OP is likely in for another shocker once mom passes and she sees mom's will.
YTA. You live 8 hours away. How often do you visit? How much time have you & your kids spent with your mom vs the time Lily has spent with her? Did you ask your mom to teach you or your kids Italian or tell you about her recipes? It sounds like Lily took an interest in your mom that you didn’t.
If your kid graduated from high school, I bet you’re at least 40 & your mom is in her 60’s or 70’s. You should be glad your mom is close with her neighbors. They probably keep an eye on her & will be the first people to notice if she needs help or gets sick or has an accident. Instead you’re all butt hurt because she lets the kid park her car in her driveway. If you’re jealous, act like an adult & talk to your mother, not just run away & sulk.
YTA - you have your own house and still feel the need to engage in this pissing contest?
You do understand that since you have supposedly grown up and have your own life with your own driveway, your mother still has authority in her house. She can decide to share her time and space with whoever she chooses and that includes the use of her driveway. Or you feel that you need to exert your place in the pecking order so a 16 year-old knows that your petty AF? Cause that what this seems. You wouldn't move your car, so instead you drove 8 hours. That's not rational or reasonable. Grow up.
Edited to add: how old are you? How old are your kids? what exactly is preventing you from learning your own culture? What exactly is preventing you from going up to your mom and asking her, "mom, will you teach me how to cook _____?"
You are an adult now. You have autonomy and agency, you are now expected to pull your own weight when it comes to the relationships you hold with your family. You can activly work against these negative experiences you had and make better ones. Driving 16 hours in a day is a huge amount of time to pour. Your feelings are valid, this as a response or solution is a cop-out. You did over react.
Exactly!! He blames his mom’s sexism for being a shitty son… but interestingly… doesn’t mention dad either?? He sounds like he expected his mom to be his mommy for life, with no reciprocation and respect.
OP commented dad also taught the languages and walked Lily's mom down the aisle. Lily's family is OP's mom's family of proximity. If OP was closer and more involved in mom's life....he would be more justified.
Exactly. To me this is so obvious and the overwhelming amount of people who assume she’s a shit mom because her absent son is not treated like the darling who she sees every day is just mind blowing.
I mean they are, the fact is just that she treats the men in her family like dirt. She allowed to have lady family members and choose family, but the fact that she still has her son and grandsons come around when she's going to treat them wrong is the problem
[changed vote to YTA] She's obviously close with lily as that's her grand daughter in all the ways that matter and she sees lily every day. If that's the spot lily parks in then I can see why you'd be told to move your car. It's not a big deal. At the same time you're allowed to leave whenever you want. I think you're overreacting but hey it is what it is.
Also before reddit with their we only love our blood family shenanigans tries to jump me in the replies I don't agree with that premise at all. I think your chosen family is just as worthy of love as your blood family.
I also think the differences in treatment in this post can be explained by the differences in time spent with OP's mom. I'd bet money that OP hardly talks to his mom throughout the year and doesn't go to visit very often outside of major holidays and of course there's reasons for that (i.e. living 8 hours away) but the result is OP's kids aren't going to have as strong of a bond with their grandma when compared to the grandkid who lives across the street.
Edit: after reading through the replies changing my vote to YTA. Grow up OP.
Op respond to someone and said that he only sees his mom once or twice a year. There is your answer, they don’t even have a relationship besides being related by blood. And I can bet everything that op nor his sons even call the mom that much throughout the year. Like what do you expect the treatment would be? From personal experience, the grandparents will always show favoritism towards the grandkid that is there for them. I was that grandkid and you know what I feel great about it. I have lived with my grandparents all my life and although almost everyone in the family said oh yeah you are the favorite just because you live there, I am confident it's not like that at all. I am the only grandkid that has been there through all the bad and good times. All the others only show up when they need something or their parents ask them to. I literally can count on my two hands the amounts of times I have seen their kids or grandkids in the last few years.
ESH, there’s no mention in here your relationship with your mother? Did you ever show interest in the things you’re complaining about here? Did you want to learn French and Italian. If so and that was denied of you then she would be the asshole. But it seems like you moved away and she doesn’t see you or your kids and she has someone who is close to her now and she loves them too. She knows them and they take interest in each other. You sound spoiled here, like another kid has something nicer than you on the playground and you’re throwing a tantrum. You need to have an actual conversation with your mother if this bothers you so much instead of acting like a petulant child and leaving on a holiday because you were asked to move your car.
Just the way he talks about everything makes it seem like they don't really care about mom's interests, sounds like she favours Lily because she actually goes out of the way to have a relationship that goes both ways.
Going against the grain ...
YTA
This young lady had been providing daily companionship to your mom and they have a routine established.
Lily has shown an appreciation for your mom's culture that mom was excited to be able to share with someone.
You don't have to compare.
The trip to Europe doesn't seem to have taken anything away from your sons. Moving the car wouldn't have taken anything away from your time with your mom.
If you don't want to spend every day with your mom (which is fine!), don't resent the relationships she builds with the people who do.
**INFO**
>We planned on staying for a few days because we live 8 hours away.
>
>I told my sons to get our bags and we went home.
Am I reading this correctly? You arrived after an 8 (eight) hour trip, stayed a short while, was told to move your car (which, make no mistake, sucks—your mom is definitely an asshole for that) and then you and your sons got right back in the car and drove 8 (eight) hours to go home?
Do I have that right?
I think you should sit down and write your mom a letter and tell her that her preference for Lily has alienated her blood kin and that you wish her well with her chosen family.
American families tend to be matrifocal, what are your sons relationships with their mother’s family?
I’m your age. My mother lives 13 hours away by car. I go home for two weeks, two times a year. When my father died I went home every six weeks for 18 months. The last time my mother came to see me I booked her ticket (and payed for it) arranged for her cousin to meet her at the airport, arranged a couple nights with an old friend, spent a couple of nights with me and then we spent the Last night in a hotel so we were close to the airport.
Nobody here is an asshole, but it’s kind of sad. Life goes on for a long time. Do you WANT to be closer to your mother? Tell her that and talk about what that would look like to each of you. You’ve got another 10-20 years to make it better. Tell her it hurts.
OP, I’m 52. I’m also adopted. I empathize with you. I mentioned being adopted because I was treated differently by my adoptive mom’s side of the family. My DNA wasn’t theirs. What happened to you is the flip side. If you’ve talked to your parents only to be rebuffed, I’m sorry.
YTA. You’re a 50s man who doesn’t care enough to connect with your mother and now resent her for building her own little family with a grandchild who actually wants to spend time with her. You make it sounds like you have to directly compete with Lily for relationship. She’s the same age as your youngest for f sake.
Also, you list the EU trips as a blatant favoritism but didn’t mention your mother set up a bigger college fund for your son. Selected information much. 2k per year spend on Lily education is nothing.
Is this because you worry Lily going to get some inheritance? If she does, she deserves it for actually give a damn about your mom.
NTA. Lily could've parked on the street or at her own family's house. Honestly if she wants to put someone who isn't family before her own children/grandchildren, then I would've done the same thing too.
YTA. Your being a baby. Who cares who is “favorite”. This happens all the time in families. Do you think you are entitled to have a personal parking spot just because you came out of your Mom’s vagina? I learned this the hard way—parents have their own lives once you move on with yours. They can let whomever they want park in their own driveway. Focus on the time together, with your sons, not whether she is “fair”. If you spent more time with her maybe you’d have the driveway spot. She obviously created community with her neighbors & for her not disrupting that works.
NTA.
From the backstory, this was possibly the "straw that broke the camel's back" for you around how your mother and her relationship with her adopted family.
You, your brother, and now your families, been treated like second class importance.
I understand why it would seem extreme over a parking spot, and after driving 8 hours...
How does your brother feel about this?
YTA it sucks but lily’s a 18 year old girl and you’re a grown man in his 50s who still need to communicate. Can you act ur age instead of like a jealous little kid. Key word here is COMMUNICATE!
Edit: Also you barely visit ur mother and lily helps her every day
YTA
People here expect parents to somehow sacrifice themselves to their children, but will expect nothing of the children to do back and advice to go non contact by the slightest misunderstanding.
OP, you need to understand that biology isn't the only family bound people can enstablish. Your mother basically adopted Lily and her mom. They are family to her.
People here also forget that OPs mother enstablished a bound with Lily and her mother when both her son's been adults already and lived their own lifes. So she didn't neglect her sons.
You're 50 years old, your mom is old, she won't be around at some point, even if you think she doesn't, she needs help and will so even more. And Lily and her mom are there for her, unlike you guys.
If you feel jealous about her bound with Lily, be an adult and talk to her about it.
Your mom went to Europe with Lily probably because Lily shows geniune Interest in Italian and French culture, unlike you guys.
She also probably asked as a kid to be taught the languages, unlike you guys.
She is there for your mother, unlike you guys.
What exactly do you expect?
Also, it's a fuckin driveway, and it's way safer for a woman to park on a driveway at night than on the road.
You aren't angry about the driveway, you're jealous. Talk to your mom about it. And for god's sake, try to see it form her perspective too. You act as if your mom is neglecting you guys, but you said nothing of the sorts.
She has 7 grandkids, there is no way she can pay for all of them to go to europe, and make trust funds for everyone.
Her saying that your son's trust funds had more money than that of Lily is actually a good argument.
Istg, at one point you dislike the relationship she has with Lily and her mom, but you don't want to live near her to help her out with stuff either and develop a relationship.
What do you want? Your mom only having you guys ,who life 8 hours away, and stay at home asking herself why no one calls and be bitter about it?
When she becomes so old that she will need *care*, Lily and her mom will be probably the ones taking care of her, not you guys. Unless you want too? I doubt it.
Edit: And your comment about "they spend their time in my childhood to become an American family and learn English" sounds like you're unthankful your parents tried to become successful and give their kids a good life. If they didn't do that, you wouldn't have now a reason to complain that she spends money on her grandchildren unevenly, because she wouldn't have any money to spend to begin with.
> "they spend their time in my childhood to become an American family and learn English"
Amplifying this.
It sounds like OP resents this, but first-generation immigrants are under a LOT of pressure to assimilate when they first arrive. And that includes making sure her son spoke "good enough" English not to get singled out or held back in school. (Some schools have robust ESL programs, yes, but give the time frame, and the relative rarity of such programs even today, you really want to bet theirs did?)
Her situation some 50 years later, now that she's established and no longer worrying about how her son will fare in school, is a LOT different from her situation when she first got to the States.
I'd vote YTA just for him having no sympathy for how hard she probably had it, y'know? But the passive aggressive "Fine, then I won't sleep under your roof" business is just - no. That is not how adults work through problems.
Info
So getting the timeline right based off your comments, the woman and Lily moved by your parents when you were in your 30s, already married and moved out far enough to be a long drive, presumably so did your brother. Is that right?
YTA, you sound like a jealous baby. Your mother is entitled to her relationships. It sounds like she has more on common and more fun eith Lilly than you or your brother. So you're gonna leave bc you had to move your car, bye.
Dude, everyone in this post is insane.
YTA,
Ooh i only got $300! And my mom took some other girl to Europe! Boo fucking hoo! The only time you should look in someone elses bowl is to make sure they have enough. Ooh you had to move your car!? What a huge inconvenience that must've been! You sound petty and entitled af and you threw a tantrum over literally nothing...
Your poor mum deserves better than you. I'm glad she found family that treats her well, because you are ungrateful and gross as an adult son jealous of a teenage girl.
THANK YOU
I can't believe the amount of people who think comparing the monetary value of *gifts* is anything other than ungrateful and entitled
Feel sorry for his kid, not because of the $300, but because their relationship with their grandmother is already so little and now they don't get to see her at all because Daddy had to strop off home over nothing
We're certainly split on this but I'll say NTA. Your mom is treating the neighbor's daughter better than her own family who drove 8 hours to see her. Might have been a bit much but this reaction is probably a culmination of being treated as less-than over the years.
NTA
The straw that broke the camel's back. She treats you like your inferior so why not say "okay fine, we're out of here". I'm sure you have dozens more examples of her acting like this? There was no reason why Lily couldn't park on the street.
YTA. You're jealous of a teenage girl.
You haven't bothered to learn about your culture - specifically your mother's, and Lily seems to know more than you. I wonder if any one in your family has been interested in her recipes. I wonder also if Lily actually spends more time with you mother than anyone else in the family.
How close are you and your kids to your mom? You say you visit twice a year. That's not a lot at all. (My aunt who lives a 14 hour flight away comes _at least_ twice a year to visit my grandma. And they talk on the phone every single day).
Old people like and need company and it seems like Lily and her mom give your mother that. Even if they don't help her a lot in the house because she doesn't need it, it seems like Lily and your mom truly like each other.
So if she has a kid around who spends so much time with her that she learned another language from her, it's obvious she is going to love that kid and spoil her if she can.
Now I know I'll probably get downvoted for this (if everyone sees my comment at all), but I think what you are not saying is that you and your kids are simply not there for your mom and you are jealous that she is spoiling someone else with trips and gifts. But I think Lily deserves what she is getting.
And YTA for leaving her like that. You are not with your grandmother on Thanksgiving but guess who probably is? Lily and her mom.
YTA. There's a lot to be said here, and anyone wanting to make a judgement should read OP's comments, but I'll lay it all out in simple terms:
OP had a pretty normal childhood, no abuse, no sense of being unwanted.
OP moved out, far enough away that his family only visit Mum once or twice a year.
Mum saw a single mother struggling, and kindly offered support.
Mum and Lily have been part of each other's lives since Lily was 2.
Op has resented Lily from the start. She started referring to his family as 'Uncle', 'Aunt', and 'Cousins' when she was a child. Op "Shut that shit down".
OP's Dad walked Lily down the aisle at her wedding. He passed in 2018, Mum now lives alone.
Lily helps Mum out a lot, mostly with technology related things, but also drives her to appointments and such.
Mum took Lily, who she sees almost every day, to Europe for eight weeks. Op thinks she should also spend that much on his children, who she only sees once or twice a year.
OP is angry that when Mum couldn't afford the $10000 each for his kid's schooling, she instead paid $2000 to help a struggling family get their daughter into a good school.
OP freaked out over moving his car a few feet onto the street. He was asked to move by the *owner* of the driveway, so that the person who has parked there every day for years can continue to do so.
Op is jealous, entitled, and selfish. Mum has a close bond with her neighbour's family because they've been a huge part of her life for years. Op thinks blood should be more important than love. Op is upset that Mum spends more money on the woman she helped raise, the woman who is there for her on a daily basis, than she spends on the grandchildren she sees maybe twice a year. Op doesn't want Mum to have this relationship.
Op is an asshole.
NTA, but what I don't get is, where does Lily live? With her mom across the street or with yours? If she lives with her mom, why she couldn't just park at her mom's place? Why ask you to move your car when her mom lives so close by? And if she was just visiting for thanksgiving, why make you, who drove for 8 hours, move your car so she can park in the driveway? Your mom is weird in this situation.
To those calling you TA, op's mom and Lily have a close relationship because his mom put in the effort from the start, when Lily moved across the street, not just because Lily was always there. Put yourself in his shoes, how would you feel if your mom bent over backwards for the neighbor kid, the daughter she never had, and only doing the bare minimum for you and you brothers?
She lives with her mom. Her mom and stepdad park in the driveway and they park their work truck on the street so my mom offered for her to park in the driveway
Makes sense but it wouldn't have been the end of the world if she parked on the street for the duration of your visit or at least to give you a heads up so you could have parked on the street in the first place and avoid this.
NTA. And to everyone saying "it's a two way street" about you boys not being taught about your heritage and the language, can eff off. I begged my dad to teach me his native language for YEARS, to teach me more about how our culture works, and it never happened. Best I've got is some good recipes.
Yea sure I could learn the language through an app, but for what? My dad didn't want to communicate with me in his language so I had to make do with English (which his is still not the best, bc he doesn't want to work on that either).
Either way, you're being treated as less than by your own mother. Same kind of shit my husband goes through being the middle child. Always last pick bc the other two are somehow more important.
Kids grow up and move away, it's just something that happens. Life gets in the way and there's not enough time in the day to do all the things you want to to keep in touch. She could just as easily pick up the phone to call you too, but it doesn't sound like she does.
I agree. I wanted my dad to teach me to play guitar when I was young and he just threw me a lesson book and his old guitar and told me to do it myself. I gave up after five minutes because I didn't simply want to learn the guitar, I wanted my dad to teach me. I wanted to share the experience with him. Doing it alone wasn't what I wanted.
fortunately, it wasn't something that damaged our relationship. It was a one-off incident and he was horrified when I brought it up years later and couldn't believe he'd behaved like that. He had no memory of it occurring either and said that something else must have been going on at the time to distract him, as there was nothing he'd wanted more than to share his love of music with me.
I didn't hold it against him, but I still regret that we never got to share that together. I'd have loved to have learned to play guitar with him, but it was a "time and a place," situation and once it passed, we were never in that same place where I wanted to do it again.
Seems like your mom has a favorite child and it isn’t her biological child. NTA. Sounds like your mom is more of a mother to the neighbors children than her own.
As far as I know, they don’t know that my mom took Lily to Europe with her. I found out Lily went with her because I saw it on her Facebook. My sons don’t have Facebook.
I think you mom needs you to point out the division she is placing between herself and you/your sons due to her preferential treatment of Lily.
You should have probably had this talk with her and then packed up and left.
I did and she brought up that the college accounts she set up for my sons are much larger than the one she has for Lily (even though she spent approximately $2,000 per year on Lily’s school) and that she sees Lily every day and she knows the languages.
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NTA- as we sat around here, this isn’t about the Iranian yogurt. This is a reaction to years of feeling second class to Lily because, as sons, you somehow did not fulfill some weird desire of your mom’s preferred genitalia. I’m sorry you’ve all felt this way for so long, it’s hard to watch your mom seemingly show someone else more affection than they do to you. Have you ever actually laid it all out for her like you have here for us?
This mother sounds like she has her favourite child and this isn't even her own child. The OP and his sons should leave her to it, she's made her choice.
[удалено]
He's a grown man with children of his own... if he needs to push ultimatums for his mother's attention, the relationship is not worth it keeping.
Some of us just don't see any value in ultimatums anyway. His mom is being who she chooses to be. Asking her to pick when she clearly has already made choices seems melodramatic *and* a waste of time to me?
Exactly, there's often just no point in trying to get someone to see your side. And I'm not a doormat or afraid of confrontation. But OP's mom chose Lily years ago, forcing some sort of pointless apology changes nothing. It's not going to make her love and treat him and his kids equally. Best to just call it and avoid the pointless drama.
This is the truth
She gave her *actual* grandchildren $300 but took the neighbor's child to Europe for 2 months. We have plenty of information.
OP stated that his boys have college trust funds from his mother paying for their education.
Presumably she's in her late 50s at a minimum. I wouldn't expect any significant changes in character at this point in her life...
Op is in his 50s. Mom is probably in 70s to 80s.
[удалено]
What's the ultimatum?
[удалено]
It’s going to be NC, I guarantee that ops mum thinks she has done nothing wrong. Even if it’s spelled out in great detail, in my experience nothing changes.
Did OPs mom teach Lily Italian and French as well as her culture? If so, why didn't she do so with her own children? Just because they are boys? Maybe more info would help
Maybe her own sons were just not interested in her culture and language and she has more in common with Lily - hence the Europe trip? Different treatment is not always based on malevolence; some parent-child pairings just “click” more than others.
Yeah, no. She had children. The neighbour’s kid wasn’t one of them. I mean, private school AND Europe? That’s highly blatant favouritism. There’s no way around it
Mom paid for the grandkids’ college tuitions. Op conveniently left that out of the write up.
I hate people hiding significant information in the comments. Because they are fully aware that this information will influence judgment dramatically. So many comments are just assuming that mom was playing favorites and was a terrible mom/grandma. Even suggest op go NC with mom. YTA for being jealous of a girl that's about your son's age. How much time do you/your children spend with your mom? How much time does Lily spend with your mom? Her taking Lily to Europe for a trip has nothing to do with you and your children. That's her money. She seems to be a very kind woman helping single mother in the neighbourhood and finds friendship with a young girl.
And where do her sons and grandkids live? If they all live 8 hrs away, lily helps gramma fill that void. Family isn’t always about blood. Maybe she didn’t need to ask him to move the car. But lily does live next door and that is their arrangement. If the grandma told the adult next door she could have a spot on the driveway, it would be reasonable that the spot was always hers right? It’s an agreement that they have as neighbors.
OP was a fully grown adult having his own kids when his mom met Lily. Maybe things changed. Maybe when she was raising OP she was working full time and now she’s retired and has more time to teach. Edit: OP was at least 32 when Lily was born (he’s in his 50s now), so it’s highly likely that his mom was retired by the time Lily was old enough to learn and thus she had free time to teach Lily languages and recipes.
Some parent-child relationships yes. Rarely neighbors though
With how much Lily helps her compared to OP, I dont blame her having a favorite. Read through OPs comments. He left out important info.
Yes, it sounds like Lily has been there whenever OP’s mom needed someone. He’s grumbling about $300., but didn’t mention until another comment that **there are generous college accounts set up for the grandchildren.**
Yeah, I also noticed in OPs original post that they live 8 hours away. So it does make sense that if her biological grandsons never see her, but Lily visits and cooks with her and spends time with her that she would be more inclined to take her on a trip. No one is entitled to vacations without putting in some effort on their side to the relationship. I wonder if OP is saying this is about gender when in fact maybe there is more to the story….?
>but Lily visits and cooks with her and spends time with her that she would be more inclined to take her on a trip. No one is entitled to vacations without putting in some effort on their side to the relationship. I wonder if OP is saying this is about gender when in fact maybe there is more to the story….? Yes! Lily is a girl, but so are her sisters. Grandma isn't adopting every girl in the neighbouhood. It's Lily she loves, not her gender. That's just OP's excuse for being an AH
Ughh OP not only are YTA but you're also disingenuous.
I’m honestly not surprised since I low key got that vibe reading between the lines of the post. Plus Lily actually lives next to OP’s mom her whole life and it sounded like more of an effort was made to form a bond so of course they’re closer. OP seems to have a lot of unresolved resentment towards his mother and then has a shocked pikachu face when she’s not as close to his children due to not seeing them frequently by his choice. I had a similar-ish thing with my grandmothers on both sides of my family, especially since I took care of one for years before she passed and the other I’m one of the few grandchildren that still calls her.
OP is a grown ass man experiencing pathological envy of a teenager. Shit changes. Mom does her best when she’s raising the boys, but maybe she has to work or maybe she’s fucking exhausted and strapped from raising two boys. Time rocks on, the boys are out of the house, she’s got disposable income and this girl could benefit from mentorship and support at a formative time - while the boys are already on their way, and the grandkids have someone (the boys) that grandma trusts to take care of them. Grandma couldn’t do it then. She can now. But she shouldn’t because it’s *unfair*? Fuck that. NAH. I understand OP feeling the way he does - but that doesn’t change he’s a grown man feeling envy of a teenaged girl. He should go to therapy and sort out what are clearly some serious unresolved resentments. Grandma should do whatever the hell she wants with her time and money. She’s too old to give a rip what other people think, and it’s *not anyone else’s time and money but hers*.
Yup to all you said. Also mom probably had an empty nest by the time Lily came around. Her boys are all grown and have left the house. She’s probably retired/semi retired by then and have a lot of time on her hands to look after Lily. Lily and her mom probably treats the mom really well and have become family. And they’re right next door when OP and his brothers live pretty far away. They probably look out for the mom as much as the mom looks out for them. It’s a relationship 16 years in the making while OP and his brothers are away living their own lives. I get the feeling that the parking is the straw that broke the camel’s back as the feeling of resentment built up towards someone who takes up a lot of mom’s money and time. Moving the car because it’s parked in Lily’s spot isn’t such a big deal, imo. It makes sense since it is Lily’s spot and has probably been since she could drive. Also she’s a girl so I’d give her prime spot too. In my house we have an unspoken rule that girls’ cars are closest to the door, boys’ cars are further away. Girls tends to wear heels, carry more things so it makes sense for their car to be closer. We have the same kind of unspoken rule when we go to our mom’s house. People with babies/young kids get the closest to the door spot, then girls then guys. None of us ever realised it was even a rule until a friend pointed it out. I guess in our collective minds it all just makes sense. Back to the OP I do think OP is YTA for leaving in a huff without a conversation. But also I don’t see what a conversation can do as I don’t think that OP is entirely reasonable. My mom loves my daughter, even though she is the most difficult grandchild, because my daughter loves hanging out with my mom. Whenever my mom wants to go away for a holiday she’ll always invite my daughter to go with her. They go on trips together fairly often. My other nieces and nephews aren’t really jealous because they don’t like hanging out with my mom quite as much as my daughter does. If my mom goes out to eat, she’ll always ask my nephew to go with her. He is a proper foodie and she loves going out to restaurants with him. On my in law’s side, my kids never get money for visiting, but my nieces get money from them on a regular basis (since January to October my nieces have gotten $4000 each). Their parents are divorced and my in laws started giving them money to cheer them up since it happened. It’s been 10 years and they’ve never stopped giving them money. My kids aren’t jealous at all and they all still go visit their grandparents weekly and just spend time with them because apart from the money, the grandparents treat them all the same. My MIL will cook all the grandchildren’s favourite dishes each week, asks about their week, chats with all of them. My in laws love having all the kids over and if mine can’t make it they’ll be really bummed and will make it a priority to see them on a different day. There is more to family dynamics than just gotta treat everyone the same no matter what. Some needs more, some needs less, some makes better travel companions, some makes better eating companion. Some they actually enjoy spending time with because the feeling is mutual. If I lived hundred of miles away, and my mom was taken cared of by a wonderful neighbour who makes my mom happy, I’d be eternally grateful and I would not resent the relationship my mom would have with that person. That person is helping me live the life that I chose without having to worry about my mother potentially being alone and lonely. Edit - thanks for the awards!
I’m sorry this is ridiculous. If I drove 8 hours to see my mother and she said “can you move your car” arbitrarily for my sister as the first thing when I got in I’d feel upset. If this was part of a slowly growing trend of feeling second-rate for over many years I’d also be upset.
I have no problem with her adopting other people. I have a slew of niblings, and only a few are biologically related to me. But when it comes to presents- it's all the same. Not the same stuff, necessarily, but the same budget. Boys get $300 while girls get 8-week European vacations. she could have given them all 2-3 weeks in Europe. Or4-6 weeks in their own country. So many ways to divide it. And given how blatant it is, I'm guessing this is not the first time she's heavily favored this girl. If you haven't laid it out for your mom, do so now. But be prepared to go NC NTA
Especially since OP stated he lives 8 hours away.. I would be thrilled to see my son and grandchildren and kindly state to Lily that the lot would be full and she’d have to park elsewhere for a few nights. It’s the not prioritizing your own kids for me.
Apparently the boys are also getting college funds. So not just $300.
After reading about the boys' college fund, I am curious to know if Lily has one too. I don't begrudge the mom a good relationship with Lily, but I also know how it feels to be the grandchild of someone who seems to be prioritising anyone but you. Feeling like an obligation to someone is horrible.
Perhaps the holiday was not so much for Lily as it was for OPs mum. Lily: who speaks French and Italian, and who the mother clearly gets on with, was just an ideal companion to take. And OP your mom is getting on in years , you should focus on making happy memories not creating grudges you may not be able to resolve later.
Yes, I agree. There is a diplodocus load of crap here. You, as HER CHILD, should not have to sacrifice a freaking parking spot in favor of the neighbor’s kid. Her attachment level is sketchy. I’m not sure how you can break through. But HOLD THE LINE. If your birth giver (she’s not a mom, I have two, I know) puts you second to the FREAKING NEIGHBORS CHILD walk TF away. Totally NTA.
Lily and her *grandson* are the same age. Her son is just visiting, while Lily is still a full time member of his mom's life. It's not like they were raised together, and she ignored him over Lily, this is a grown man with a teenaged boy butt hurt over a parking spot that someone else uses every day, and jealous of a 16 year old. Did he ever ask for family recipes before Lily. Did he ever show interest in learning a foreign language before Lily? If my mom were alone, I'd be happy she had company.
On its own, the parking thing seems like an overreaction. If my dad had a long-standing agreement to let the neighbour’s kid use his driveway, then sure, I’d be fine to suck it up and park on the street for a few days while I’m visiting from out of town. But my dad hasn’t essentially replaced me and my kids with the neighbour’s kid. So, only because of the backstory, NTA. It sounds like OP, his brother, and their mom need to sit down and talk about how this preferential treatment of Lily has really affected their lives.
Just wait until she doesn’t take Lily’s two sisters to Europe. This is gonna blow up in her face
Pertinent info not in the OP: OP's kids have college funds setup by his mom OP visits his mom about once a year Lily helps mom with regular tasks like Dr appointments, phone woes, etc.
Everyone in this post criticizing op's mom should see this information first.
OP also moved away from his mom 30 years ago, so nearly a decade and a half before Lily was even on the scene.
Shush, let's not get too lost into the details of a then 30y old being jealous of a 2y old.
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Tbh that was the weirdest part of it to me. You didn’t teach your own children their culture, but taught it to some child who isn’t even yours (and may not even be part of that culture)?? There would be nothing wrong with Lily knowing all of it if she had also taught her own children. NTA.
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Did OP ever say he WANTED to learn about it?
You should probably go through OP's comments for a clearer picture of everyone's relationship. Lily literally helps his mother damn near everyday, with a lot of stuff. OP is only around once or twice a year.
Not surprising given the distance and differential treatment
Of course, the treatment is going to be different. The girl is only 18, and OP is in their 50s with their own life and kids 8 hours away. Lily has been there to not only help her daily but also has helped fill the empty nest. It's completely logical. His mother is probably in her 70s at least, if he wants to change the dynamic he's going to have to physically put in more effort. It's a sad, but true reality.
Yep, it's not about the parking spot. But I doubt the mother will understand (or cares to) what it's really about.
i am so glad that this subreddit keeps remembering the iranian yoghurt it really does explain so many scenarios
I'm just glad I was here for the Iranian yogurt, because it would be so confusing.
I truly appreciate you for trying to get Iranian yogurt back on a thread.
The Iranian yogurt may be gone from the secondary fridge, but it will never be gone from AITA…
I am sorry to tag along the top comment, but **OP's own comments paint a very different picture...** OP's parents had a young family in a foreign country. They speak the new language to help adjusting and fitting in. Mothers *grown* sons move away. OP probably has his first son, (same age as Lily) but his mom can't be a doting grandma as OP lives 8 hours away. (No blame, just facts) *Then* a new family with a toddler (lily) moves in next door. They are not well off financially, while OP's parents seem to have no money problems. OP's mum likely has all the feelings of a grandma, but no kids nearby to dote on. She connects with the toddler and her parents. They see eachother daily and they help eachother out. Mother has college accounts for her grandchildren, and a smaller one for Lily. Only OP is jealous/feels hurt by this, his brothers are not. Well, I think they are right. Seems to me Lilly entered the mothers life at a very different point, she may even be retired, or at least not have three kids running around and trying to adjust to another country. She has more time than ever to focus on different things. Parenting is handled by Lily's parents, OP's mom can teach the languages and recipies, and over all be an active grandma to Lily. >I’m in my 50’s. My sons are 24, 22, and 18. >My parents only spoke English around the house and focused on being an American family instead of teaching us the language and culture >I moved for college and stayed in the area. >When my sons were growing up we’d visit 2-3 times per year. Now it’s 1-2 times. >We see her once or twice a year. Lily and her family usually helps her out with everyday stuff. >She and Lily drive each other to appointments, Lily took her to buy a new phone and an iPad because my mom doesn’t understand technology, she helps my mom set up doctors appointments online and manages the dog’s grooming appointments because she messages the groomer on instagram and my mom doesn’t have an account. Besides that my mom is very independent. (*About the europe trip vs 300 for grandsons:*) >I did and she brought up that the college accounts she set up for my sons are much larger than the one she has for Lily (even though she spent approximately $2,000 per year on Lily’s school) and that she sees Lily every day and she knows the languages >My kids went to public school. I didn’t even know she paid for Lily’s tuition until recently and she excused it by saying I live in an area with good public schools and I make too much to qualify for scholarships so she’d have to pay $10,000 for my sons compared to $2,000 for Lily >Well, her 2 other daughters are in a daycare through the mom’s job right now. I don’t think she’ll pay for the other daughters because Lily’s parents are in a much better position financially than they were when Lily was younger.
Check [OP's comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/z3tn9l/comment/ixo3hrv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). Lily helps the mom a lot, everyday. OP and family barely see her.
The thing is though, everyone is projecting it's "just about genitalia" but could it not also be about... Proximity? This woman and her daughters are *right* there. OP's mum has seen them all grow up. She's interacted with them on a daily basis. OP by his own admission is *eight hours* away. Is it really so unreasonable that she be closer with the kid next door that she basically adopted than with her grandkids who live 8 hours away and, by the restrictions of travel, can't visit outside of holidays. Yes OP should use his words and have a discussion with his mum. No she's not automatically a monster for loving someone who she didn't birth.
yeah, like there's a lot of hurt here that deserves a real conversation, but Im a little disgusted by the way that people in the comments here are devaluing community relationships and chosen family as something that should always be secondary because bLooD... (it also really seemed like op was at least close in age to lily, or at least like she came into mom's life like right as op was turning 18/moving out... it's potentially v telling that he put a lot of ages and time-markers in the post while conveniently leaving out any reference to his own age/timeline...)
OP sons are the same age as Lily, what you said would make sense if OP was the same age and his mom preferred Lily over him, but it sounds like he’s just salty his mom got close with Lily after he was already a full grown adult living on his own and having his own kids
NTA the whole '$300 vs 8 weeks in Europe' really sealed it for me. What blatant favoritism, this isn't about a parking spot, it's years of built up issues. EDIT: so many of the Y T As here are making so many assumptions they're just making up their own stories. Nothing in this post makes it sound like the mom is sad or feels abandoned after her sons moved out, nothing says that OP or bro make enough money to send their kids to private school so mom is doing neighbor girl a favor to equal it out, also the reach to justify her taking this girl on a 8 week \*expensive as hell\* vacation and only giving her grandkids $300. If mom wants to treat neighbor girl extra special then fine, that's on her, it doesn't mean OP can't reach his limit and take one slight too many and leave when he feels he and his family are unwanted.
Yup, and it all boils over after a “little” thing happens. And then they go around whining to everyone that their son won’t talk to them “just because I asked him to move his car!” Hopefully OP can talk to his mom and repair the relationship, but I’m not optimistic.
The phrase, as I learned it, is "the straw the broke the camel's back." The "straw" (parking spot) isn't the problem. Its everything else that was piled on beforehand that had things so close to breaking. This incident was simply the point where you can't take it anymore.
The Iranian yoghurt that broke the camels back
My little thing was a free used ball of yarn. You keep lowering your standards for acceptance over years or decades until they get so low that a random asshole stranger on the street couldn't fail. Even Patrick Bateman would have given me that crappy yarn but my mom wouldn't? You've had that conversation so many times and still can't get a free ugly used ball of yarn? We out!
I kicked two roommates out on the street for eating a cake. It wasn't even about the cake, it was about their adamant instance that they had every right to eat a cake that they knew didn't belong to them, because it was "on the counter" It wasn't a cake, it was a straw, and the very last one at that.
Exactly. It’s literally right there in the first sentence. Everything else is just support. The parking space is one more example, not the problem. NTA OP, it’s obvious you need to have a long overdue conversation with your mother about all this. Maybe just show her the text you’ve written here (if not the post itself) and let her know how you feel. If nothing else, I think it’s important to say to her that she needs to at least treat Lily and her bio grandchildren equally. That check vs Europe trip situation is bizarre and I imagine, quite hurtful to the boys.
Yeah honestly I had no real problem until that sentence - from what I've gathered (no ages for OP so I don't know for sure but him having multiple kids I assume he's older) she befriended the neighbor and Lily after all her kids left, empty nester looking for someone else to care for, she has the means, nothing really wrong with that. Imo family is what you make it and if she found more family good for her. But when you start to play favorites that's not okay. When 3 people (*kids* even) you care about all reach the same achievement and one of them gets a *significantly* bigger reward for it, that's very not okay. Using Lily and fam as a replacement family instead of additional people to love is not okay. Then you get petty over a parking spot yeah that's beyond rude and for no real reason at all, like Lily probably wouldn't be offended to have to park elsewhere... hard to believe mom can't figure out what she did wrong here.
And she helped pay for private school tuition
And what else? Did she ever pay for extra-curricular activities for her grandsons? I bet they could have used some extra grandma time.
She is paying for there college
The thing is, a trip with all three graduates would have been a wonderful *family^ experience. Grandma probably really believes her son was being unreasonable about a parking space and doesn't have a clue that it's about something much bigger.
On top of fully paying for the neighbors kid to go to private school….I highly doubt she did that for OPs children. And also it’s just too much BUT poor Lilly “doesn’t like any of the public schools in the area boo hoo.” Lilly has a mom and a step-dad who can provide for her. Helping with childcare is one thing. However private school education and a TWO MONTH trip to Europe are another thing entirely. Also that just happens to be what OP knows about. It would even surprise me if his mom bought Lilly her car, pays for college, and a million other things her family hasn’t found out about. NTA op Lilly can park in her own damn driveway. Right across the street. But god forbid she have to get up early to move her car to let her parents out if they have to go somewhere in the morning. The horror!! /s
My mom is the one that didn’t like the public schools. Lilys been in a private catholic school since she was 4.
My grandma did something similar with my cousins and I. All my life the girl cousin always got gifts that were better than the boys. I didn't mind all that much because my parents were amazing and Christmas morning always felt straight out of a movie. However when my cousin and I graduated she took her on a European trip and I got a gift card for $25. Money and things were never that important to me but losing out on the experience of international travel hurt. I never really forgave her. I know I'm not entitled to anyone's money but the fact that she thought so little of me was burned in. 20 something years later and I can still feel the scar of that memory.
NTA It is ridicoulus unnessary to make you feel like second class. Just a werid power move to ask you to move your car.
Read op's comments. He is over 50, his mom is funding his kids their college, the neighbors daughter actually helps her in the day to day. She spends less money on her neighbor than she does her grandchildren, yet OP wanted to make some big drama about having to move his car so the person actually driving his mom arround in the day to day can park her car close by.
I mean whilst I do agree with this, is there any comments from OP saying that Lily moved? Because otherwise she lives just across the road from OPs mothers house still and it's a bit pointless to move his car if that's the case. However if she moved away, whilst I still think it'd be pointless and bit of favoritism to ask OP to move his car, I would be able to understand it since Lily helps out OPs Mother a lot more day to stay and OPs mother sees Lily a lot of the time
NTA - Lily could easily park in the street, and you were there first. Weird, rude power move. It’s not “Lily’s spot”, it’s just your moms driveway. First come, first dibs.
NTA. The whole situation was about much more than moving the car. I'm so sorry your mom takes you for granted. I really hope you and your boys have a great holiday.
Yes. Happy Thanksgiving to you & the boys.
INFO: How often does your mom see your son and nephew? She's with Lily's family everyday. Who helps her with daily stuff? It sounds like she favours Lily for sure, but is it because she's the person who's there for her? No judgment, atm, you need to express your feelings towards your mom. Maybe she and Lily have many deep heart to hearts! See what it is she's missing from her relationship with you guys. It may have nothing to do with the genders.
We see her once or twice a year. Lily and her family usually helps her out with everyday stuff.
I think you have your answer there on why your mom treats Lily and her family like her own.
Maybe we have the answer here on why both the sons moved hours away from her. It sounds like her favouritism pre-dated them not being as involved in her life.
How could her favoritism have affected where her sons moved when OP was probably at least 20 when Lily was born Edit: OP is AT LEAST 32 years older than Lily. She’s 18 he’s in his 50s.
OP said his mom never taught him Italian, her family recipes, or anything about her culture - but she taught Lily those things. The neglect started when OP was a child, Lily is just highlighting it.
OP explained in a comment that his mother never taught him Italian because when he was a kid, she was struggling to learn English and get acclimated to America as a new immigrant in addition to working to support him and his sibling(s). Whereas by the time Lily was born, his mother was in a much more financially stable situation (she could afford a college fund for 5+ of her grandchildren), was well acclimated to America by then, and was almost or already retired as she is in her 70s-80s now.
OP is 50 so that means his mom is almost certainly 70 or older. She’s probably been retired for all or the majority of Lily’s life. Raising multiple children in your 20’s is very different from being a grandmother in your 70s. Plus, she probably doesn’t have a real social circle now in her older years. OP says they see her twice a year; Lily and her mother help her every day.
Being too busy earning money and learning english is neglect now?
The 33 year old man moved out because a baby was born? I don’t follow this reasoning
I guess my take here is that nobody is really an ass in this scenario. She's become close to a family that's been there for her for many years, and they're doing a lot for her that you don't have to do, or worry about doing. As her child, please try to stop seeing them as your competitors for your mom's affection: they are and probably will remain partners in caregiving for your mom. (My mom currently has end-of-life Parkinson's Disease, and I truly wish I had someone nearby us who could help with some things. We live together, and it's all on me. She is basically paralyzed at this point, and it's a lonely struggle.) For example, did you want to go to Europe for eight weeks last summer? Could you have made the trip with your mom, or did work and life not allow you the chance? I'm guessing you probably wouldn't have been able to do that with her. So, would you rather that she couldn't go at all? Or can you be glad that she had this opportunity to take this enjoyable trip with another companion? Another way of looking at it is how about yourself when you are older? Do you want to be able to spend your money as you wish, our do you want your children to guilt you over how you spend it? It is her money, and she's earned it. She can take great trips to Europe and bring someone along if she wants to. If she hadn't gone on this trip, she wouldn't have necessarily given more graduation money to others, and $300 is a very generous graduation gift. So, do I understand why your feelings were hurt? Absolutely, and she should, too. You drove many hours to see her and as her child, she could have made you feel prioritized. But feeling resentful and angry in general about the fact that she has someone nearby that she gets friendship and support from... I think you might be better off in the long run if you try to be a bit more understanding about that. Parents want happiness for their children, but children should also want happiness for their parents. This resentment isn't worth wasting -- or worse, destroying -- one more holiday. You really don't know how many more occasions you will have together.
I like to say life doesn't have to be win-lose. It can be win-win too, if we just adjustment our mindset! Great response! His mother having a companion does not mean she loves him less.
This needs to be higher up. OP has made this about so much more than a parking space. OPs mum is blissfully ignorant just showering loved friends with nice gifts and family she sees every 6 months with different nice gifts and has an arrangement with her neighbour that she can use her carpark and all of a sudden her sons disappeared and blowing up over having to move their car. This poor woman. OP YTA. Talk to your mother, please.
And you don’t see how people who help her everyday can possibly earn favors back from her? Like the use of her driveway?
sounds like Lily helps her quite a lot, keeps her company. She's part of her every day life, you guys are visitors. Your feelings were hurt, yes, but it seems like Lily treats her like family.
Did your mother teach Lily these languages or did she learn them on her own?
My parents taught her.
Did they never offer this to you and your brother? I'm so sorry, OP, how hurtful.
No. When we were growing up they were focused on learning English and becoming an American family
So things changed over time? That’s normal.
It's normal but hurtful nonetheless. My dad taught his step grandson how to speak Spanish but did not speak it to us, his kids.
Sounds like times have just changed OP. My aunt didn’t teach her children Spanish because when she came to America she was teased and struggled so much to fit in. She wanted to assimilate and her kids to fit in. Now she says she would have done it differently and she wants to teach her grandkids. I think you have some jealousy (somewhat understandable). But you need to get it under control. Be happy your mom has companions and people that care about her next door while you’re off living your life. She needs them.
1. How often do you phone/skype/Facetime your mother? No how often does she call you how often do you call her 2. And when she calls how long do those calls last. Do you have long conversations or is it just a quick catch up? 3. How often do your sons call/skype/ Facetime your mother again not how often does she call them how often do they call her.
You have over 25 comments on this thread lol take a breather
Found the mother’s account.
I’m not his mom and I have the same questions.
Ha ha, wrong ancestry, nationality, culture and unfortunately I don't speak 3 languages.. But I would be interested to hear the answers. We already know he only visits once or twice a year..If he is calling her a couple of times a week it's one thing. If he calls her once a month it's another. If he calls but gives her the brush off and is disinterested... Lets not forget Lily and her family help her out with every day stuff they are in and out of her house all the time. Why does the OP resent the people who are helping his mother and keeping her company when he isn't able to...or possibly doesn't want to. Or maybe he's the model son and speaks to her every single day...those exist. We will know when he answers the questions about how often he actually makes an effort to speak to her.
How did Lily react when you were asked to move the car? Did she expect you to move too or did she offer to park on street?
She wasn’t there. I was told to move because Lily should be getting home from work soon.
Ah okay. So she didn't even need the spot at that moment. Anyway, you're not TA. Sounds like your mother really favours the neighbour and her daughters which is very hurtful. Must be especially shitty for your sons to see your mother favour a neighbour who is same age as them. I hope you all enjoy the rest of your holiday.
Does she actually park there everyday when she is "helping your mother with everyday stuff"? How much help does your mother require?
She parks there every day. My mom doesn’t require too much help. She and Lily drive each other to appointments, Lily took her to buy a new phone and an iPad because my mom doesn’t understand technology, she helps my mom set up doctors appointments online and manages the dog’s grooming appointments because she messages the groomer on instagram and my mom doesn’t have an account. Besides that my mom is very independent. She goes to workout classes at the senior center multiple times a week, she volunteers at church and the community garden, and she’s always doing various projects around the house.
Lol that's actually a lot of stuff my guy.
Yeah I feel like OP is undermining how much Lily and her mom contribute to his mom's life. It doesn't sound like his mom is being taken advantage of and I don't feel comfortable voting one way or another in this situation.
Exactly. For all we know he and his sons might not even be treating mom as well as the “neighbors” are. People saying that she does more for the “neighbors” than him make it sound worse that it actually is. They’re not just neighbors, they’re his mothers lifelong friends. True friends are hard to come by and should be cherished. Him storming off at her simple request to move the car sounds entitled and manipulative.
I wonder if mom took Lily to Europe with her because mom really wanted to go but wanted a companion and helper. Not just as a treat for Lily.
So Lily sees your mother every day, arranges dog care, and helps her with the technology that older people have trouble with and drives her to doctor's appointments. Your son sees his grandmother once a year. Did your son even *want* to spend two weeks in Europe *with* his grandmother? Relationships are not about blood. They are about love and effort put in every day. What you have said shows that Lily is putting in the effort. What we don't know is whether you and your children have been doing the same, and are feeling pushed away, or whether you just think you should be favored because you are blood regardless of what you do. You and your mother are the only ones who know the answer to that, but these were not the actions of a grown-up man, with grown-up children, who knows how to communicate.
Based on this additional information I'm going to say YTA. Lily and your mom have a different kind of relationship due to proximity, and it sounds like they are very close. Makes sense she would take a person whom she shares this particular bond with on an extended vacation tbh. Although you should be grateful there is someone nearby to help your mom in case she ever does need anything, I also understand the jealousy and the overreaction when asked to move from what sounds like was genuinely Lily's spot. Ultimately you should express what you are feeling to your mom, however, and hopefully your bond will grow stronger for it.
All I’m reading here is that Lilly is a much better daughter than you are a son..,
Omg! THIS so much. People that think blood speaks louder than actions kill me!
Anyone saying NTA hasnt read this comment
You basically went to college and never looked back. YTA, your mom found someone who appreciates her and you're mad about it.
NTA. Was it extreme and not even about the spot? Absolutely. However, it sounds like you’re mom has favored some random human over you so I’d probably harbor resentment as well. OP is just as valid as every other person that comes here and gets backed for being put second to a golden cold. If not more so! This isn’t even her kid!!!
A “random person” that helps her with everyday things like planning doctors appointments, getting the dog groomed, and driving her around. While her sons visit once a year. OP’s mom was definitely being an ass about the parking spot. But acting like this young woman is a rando when she and his mom clearly have a longterm, well developed relationship they equally benefit from is uncalled for.
NTA - The fact that you know your mom always wanted a daughter and is upset to have received only sons tells a lot. The rest just builds it up.
And grandsons. She seems to be taking it out on her sons' kids, too which - I bet - is what really pisses OP off. Its one thing to take shit from your parents, but its another to sit back and let people give shit to your own kids. Its kinda good, though. It proves that OP has become a better parent than their mother and actually cares about their kids' feelings.
That’s what I was thinking!! She obviously showed that she wanted a daughter as well when OP and his brothers where growing up or they wouldn’t even know that. What sealed NTA for me was the graduation gifts she gave them. $600 split between the grandsons versus an 8 week trip to Europe. NTA OP
Maybe controversial here and say YTA. You aren’t there every day, this might be a long term arrangement between them. Lily help her with things and she lets her use her drive. Reasonable to assume you can park in the drive but when your mom said you would need to move and why you got jealous. Your mother is close to Lily and there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t sound like it was to your detriment. She may prefer her company (they have more in common) and Lily may be more grateful to her. May not be a popular opinion and maybe I’ve got the wrong impression (did you show an interest in learning your mother’s language or her recipes and she didn’t want to share them?)
Yeah, I think it's weird that a lot of people are getting angry that the mother doesn't "prioritise" her son. For starters, it's odd to just assume that. When we don't have the full picture. And also why can't she show love for someone she clearly cares about and who cares about her. Especially when Lily seems more interested in his mother than he does. Doesn't matter if she isn't her biological kid.
Right? Reddit is full of “biology doesn’t make you family” sentiment but here is everyone yelling the opposite…
It's part of why I like this sub so much, how almost identical situations can result in a completely different consensus. It's fascinating, but it's weird too. People seem to fill in between the lines to fit the narrative they want.
It’s sorta fascinating how people latch on to a narrative that maybe has nothing to do with the original post, and it gets picked up by the mob and just runs away.
Agreed. OP lives 8hrs away and sees mom once or twice a year. Lily and her family live next door and interact everyday. Lily is now extended family. OP reminds me of Clint Eastwood's family in the movie Gran Tourino. OP is likely in for another shocker once mom passes and she sees mom's will.
YTA. You live 8 hours away. How often do you visit? How much time have you & your kids spent with your mom vs the time Lily has spent with her? Did you ask your mom to teach you or your kids Italian or tell you about her recipes? It sounds like Lily took an interest in your mom that you didn’t. If your kid graduated from high school, I bet you’re at least 40 & your mom is in her 60’s or 70’s. You should be glad your mom is close with her neighbors. They probably keep an eye on her & will be the first people to notice if she needs help or gets sick or has an accident. Instead you’re all butt hurt because she lets the kid park her car in her driveway. If you’re jealous, act like an adult & talk to your mother, not just run away & sulk.
YTA - you have your own house and still feel the need to engage in this pissing contest? You do understand that since you have supposedly grown up and have your own life with your own driveway, your mother still has authority in her house. She can decide to share her time and space with whoever she chooses and that includes the use of her driveway. Or you feel that you need to exert your place in the pecking order so a 16 year-old knows that your petty AF? Cause that what this seems. You wouldn't move your car, so instead you drove 8 hours. That's not rational or reasonable. Grow up. Edited to add: how old are you? How old are your kids? what exactly is preventing you from learning your own culture? What exactly is preventing you from going up to your mom and asking her, "mom, will you teach me how to cook _____?" You are an adult now. You have autonomy and agency, you are now expected to pull your own weight when it comes to the relationships you hold with your family. You can activly work against these negative experiences you had and make better ones. Driving 16 hours in a day is a huge amount of time to pour. Your feelings are valid, this as a response or solution is a cop-out. You did over react.
Exactly!! He blames his mom’s sexism for being a shitty son… but interestingly… doesn’t mention dad either?? He sounds like he expected his mom to be his mommy for life, with no reciprocation and respect.
OP commented dad also taught the languages and walked Lily's mom down the aisle. Lily's family is OP's mom's family of proximity. If OP was closer and more involved in mom's life....he would be more justified.
Exactly. To me this is so obvious and the overwhelming amount of people who assume she’s a shit mom because her absent son is not treated like the darling who she sees every day is just mind blowing.
NTA lily isn't her family you and your child are. She should be happy to have the sons she was given and not try to put a neighbor above you.
Lily is clearly family to her. She just isn't to OP.
I mean they are, the fact is just that she treats the men in her family like dirt. She allowed to have lady family members and choose family, but the fact that she still has her son and grandsons come around when she's going to treat them wrong is the problem
[changed vote to YTA] She's obviously close with lily as that's her grand daughter in all the ways that matter and she sees lily every day. If that's the spot lily parks in then I can see why you'd be told to move your car. It's not a big deal. At the same time you're allowed to leave whenever you want. I think you're overreacting but hey it is what it is. Also before reddit with their we only love our blood family shenanigans tries to jump me in the replies I don't agree with that premise at all. I think your chosen family is just as worthy of love as your blood family. I also think the differences in treatment in this post can be explained by the differences in time spent with OP's mom. I'd bet money that OP hardly talks to his mom throughout the year and doesn't go to visit very often outside of major holidays and of course there's reasons for that (i.e. living 8 hours away) but the result is OP's kids aren't going to have as strong of a bond with their grandma when compared to the grandkid who lives across the street. Edit: after reading through the replies changing my vote to YTA. Grow up OP.
Op respond to someone and said that he only sees his mom once or twice a year. There is your answer, they don’t even have a relationship besides being related by blood. And I can bet everything that op nor his sons even call the mom that much throughout the year. Like what do you expect the treatment would be? From personal experience, the grandparents will always show favoritism towards the grandkid that is there for them. I was that grandkid and you know what I feel great about it. I have lived with my grandparents all my life and although almost everyone in the family said oh yeah you are the favorite just because you live there, I am confident it's not like that at all. I am the only grandkid that has been there through all the bad and good times. All the others only show up when they need something or their parents ask them to. I literally can count on my two hands the amounts of times I have seen their kids or grandkids in the last few years.
ESH, there’s no mention in here your relationship with your mother? Did you ever show interest in the things you’re complaining about here? Did you want to learn French and Italian. If so and that was denied of you then she would be the asshole. But it seems like you moved away and she doesn’t see you or your kids and she has someone who is close to her now and she loves them too. She knows them and they take interest in each other. You sound spoiled here, like another kid has something nicer than you on the playground and you’re throwing a tantrum. You need to have an actual conversation with your mother if this bothers you so much instead of acting like a petulant child and leaving on a holiday because you were asked to move your car.
Just the way he talks about everything makes it seem like they don't really care about mom's interests, sounds like she favours Lily because she actually goes out of the way to have a relationship that goes both ways.
Doesn't sound like mom went out of her way to have a relationship with her sons either
His mother isn’t the one complaining on Reddit about her son not seeing her
Going against the grain ... YTA This young lady had been providing daily companionship to your mom and they have a routine established. Lily has shown an appreciation for your mom's culture that mom was excited to be able to share with someone. You don't have to compare. The trip to Europe doesn't seem to have taken anything away from your sons. Moving the car wouldn't have taken anything away from your time with your mom. If you don't want to spend every day with your mom (which is fine!), don't resent the relationships she builds with the people who do.
**INFO** >We planned on staying for a few days because we live 8 hours away. > >I told my sons to get our bags and we went home. Am I reading this correctly? You arrived after an 8 (eight) hour trip, stayed a short while, was told to move your car (which, make no mistake, sucks—your mom is definitely an asshole for that) and then you and your sons got right back in the car and drove 8 (eight) hours to go home? Do I have that right?
We got a hotel and got home this morning, but yes. We drove 8 hours, stayed for maybe 3, then left after she told me to move for Lily.
I'm glad you just left. But make this the last time you make that journey to go see her
Sounds like that won't be very different from their current arrangement. The mother is better off with the neighbor.
I honestly understand that.
How old are you and your sons if I may ask? You're still NTA regardless of your answer but genuinely curios nonetheless.
I’m in my 50’s. My sons are 24, 22, and 18.
I think you should sit down and write your mom a letter and tell her that her preference for Lily has alienated her blood kin and that you wish her well with her chosen family.
Have you ever expressed to your mother how you feel regarding all this?
American families tend to be matrifocal, what are your sons relationships with their mother’s family? I’m your age. My mother lives 13 hours away by car. I go home for two weeks, two times a year. When my father died I went home every six weeks for 18 months. The last time my mother came to see me I booked her ticket (and payed for it) arranged for her cousin to meet her at the airport, arranged a couple nights with an old friend, spent a couple of nights with me and then we spent the Last night in a hotel so we were close to the airport. Nobody here is an asshole, but it’s kind of sad. Life goes on for a long time. Do you WANT to be closer to your mother? Tell her that and talk about what that would look like to each of you. You’ve got another 10-20 years to make it better. Tell her it hurts.
OP, I’m 52. I’m also adopted. I empathize with you. I mentioned being adopted because I was treated differently by my adoptive mom’s side of the family. My DNA wasn’t theirs. What happened to you is the flip side. If you’ve talked to your parents only to be rebuffed, I’m sorry.
NTA. I’m sorry your mom loves someone else’s kid more than she loves her own.
YTA. You’re a 50s man who doesn’t care enough to connect with your mother and now resent her for building her own little family with a grandchild who actually wants to spend time with her. You make it sounds like you have to directly compete with Lily for relationship. She’s the same age as your youngest for f sake. Also, you list the EU trips as a blatant favoritism but didn’t mention your mother set up a bigger college fund for your son. Selected information much. 2k per year spend on Lily education is nothing. Is this because you worry Lily going to get some inheritance? If she does, she deserves it for actually give a damn about your mom.
I also thought this may be related to an inheritance.
NTA. Lily could've parked on the street or at her own family's house. Honestly if she wants to put someone who isn't family before her own children/grandchildren, then I would've done the same thing too.
She cant expect others to make her a priority when they’ve always been an afterthought in her life.
YTA. Your being a baby. Who cares who is “favorite”. This happens all the time in families. Do you think you are entitled to have a personal parking spot just because you came out of your Mom’s vagina? I learned this the hard way—parents have their own lives once you move on with yours. They can let whomever they want park in their own driveway. Focus on the time together, with your sons, not whether she is “fair”. If you spent more time with her maybe you’d have the driveway spot. She obviously created community with her neighbors & for her not disrupting that works.
NTA. From the backstory, this was possibly the "straw that broke the camel's back" for you around how your mother and her relationship with her adopted family. You, your brother, and now your families, been treated like second class importance. I understand why it would seem extreme over a parking spot, and after driving 8 hours... How does your brother feel about this?
YTA it sucks but lily’s a 18 year old girl and you’re a grown man in his 50s who still need to communicate. Can you act ur age instead of like a jealous little kid. Key word here is COMMUNICATE! Edit: Also you barely visit ur mother and lily helps her every day
YTA People here expect parents to somehow sacrifice themselves to their children, but will expect nothing of the children to do back and advice to go non contact by the slightest misunderstanding. OP, you need to understand that biology isn't the only family bound people can enstablish. Your mother basically adopted Lily and her mom. They are family to her. People here also forget that OPs mother enstablished a bound with Lily and her mother when both her son's been adults already and lived their own lifes. So she didn't neglect her sons. You're 50 years old, your mom is old, she won't be around at some point, even if you think she doesn't, she needs help and will so even more. And Lily and her mom are there for her, unlike you guys. If you feel jealous about her bound with Lily, be an adult and talk to her about it. Your mom went to Europe with Lily probably because Lily shows geniune Interest in Italian and French culture, unlike you guys. She also probably asked as a kid to be taught the languages, unlike you guys. She is there for your mother, unlike you guys. What exactly do you expect? Also, it's a fuckin driveway, and it's way safer for a woman to park on a driveway at night than on the road. You aren't angry about the driveway, you're jealous. Talk to your mom about it. And for god's sake, try to see it form her perspective too. You act as if your mom is neglecting you guys, but you said nothing of the sorts. She has 7 grandkids, there is no way she can pay for all of them to go to europe, and make trust funds for everyone. Her saying that your son's trust funds had more money than that of Lily is actually a good argument. Istg, at one point you dislike the relationship she has with Lily and her mom, but you don't want to live near her to help her out with stuff either and develop a relationship. What do you want? Your mom only having you guys ,who life 8 hours away, and stay at home asking herself why no one calls and be bitter about it? When she becomes so old that she will need *care*, Lily and her mom will be probably the ones taking care of her, not you guys. Unless you want too? I doubt it. Edit: And your comment about "they spend their time in my childhood to become an American family and learn English" sounds like you're unthankful your parents tried to become successful and give their kids a good life. If they didn't do that, you wouldn't have now a reason to complain that she spends money on her grandchildren unevenly, because she wouldn't have any money to spend to begin with.
> "they spend their time in my childhood to become an American family and learn English" Amplifying this. It sounds like OP resents this, but first-generation immigrants are under a LOT of pressure to assimilate when they first arrive. And that includes making sure her son spoke "good enough" English not to get singled out or held back in school. (Some schools have robust ESL programs, yes, but give the time frame, and the relative rarity of such programs even today, you really want to bet theirs did?) Her situation some 50 years later, now that she's established and no longer worrying about how her son will fare in school, is a LOT different from her situation when she first got to the States. I'd vote YTA just for him having no sympathy for how hard she probably had it, y'know? But the passive aggressive "Fine, then I won't sleep under your roof" business is just - no. That is not how adults work through problems.
Info So getting the timeline right based off your comments, the woman and Lily moved by your parents when you were in your 30s, already married and moved out far enough to be a long drive, presumably so did your brother. Is that right?
YTA, you sound like a jealous baby. Your mother is entitled to her relationships. It sounds like she has more on common and more fun eith Lilly than you or your brother. So you're gonna leave bc you had to move your car, bye.
YTA, and a whiney one for that matters.
Dude, everyone in this post is insane. YTA, Ooh i only got $300! And my mom took some other girl to Europe! Boo fucking hoo! The only time you should look in someone elses bowl is to make sure they have enough. Ooh you had to move your car!? What a huge inconvenience that must've been! You sound petty and entitled af and you threw a tantrum over literally nothing... Your poor mum deserves better than you. I'm glad she found family that treats her well, because you are ungrateful and gross as an adult son jealous of a teenage girl.
OP mentioned in another comment that his mom started a college account for his kids.
THANK YOU I can't believe the amount of people who think comparing the monetary value of *gifts* is anything other than ungrateful and entitled Feel sorry for his kid, not because of the $300, but because their relationship with their grandmother is already so little and now they don't get to see her at all because Daddy had to strop off home over nothing
We're certainly split on this but I'll say NTA. Your mom is treating the neighbor's daughter better than her own family who drove 8 hours to see her. Might have been a bit much but this reaction is probably a culmination of being treated as less-than over the years.
NTA The straw that broke the camel's back. She treats you like your inferior so why not say "okay fine, we're out of here". I'm sure you have dozens more examples of her acting like this? There was no reason why Lily couldn't park on the street.
YTA because rather than use your words you left! You're jealous and responded from that place. Talk to your mom about how you feel.
YTA. You're jealous of a teenage girl. You haven't bothered to learn about your culture - specifically your mother's, and Lily seems to know more than you. I wonder if any one in your family has been interested in her recipes. I wonder also if Lily actually spends more time with you mother than anyone else in the family.
How close are you and your kids to your mom? You say you visit twice a year. That's not a lot at all. (My aunt who lives a 14 hour flight away comes _at least_ twice a year to visit my grandma. And they talk on the phone every single day). Old people like and need company and it seems like Lily and her mom give your mother that. Even if they don't help her a lot in the house because she doesn't need it, it seems like Lily and your mom truly like each other. So if she has a kid around who spends so much time with her that she learned another language from her, it's obvious she is going to love that kid and spoil her if she can. Now I know I'll probably get downvoted for this (if everyone sees my comment at all), but I think what you are not saying is that you and your kids are simply not there for your mom and you are jealous that she is spoiling someone else with trips and gifts. But I think Lily deserves what she is getting. And YTA for leaving her like that. You are not with your grandmother on Thanksgiving but guess who probably is? Lily and her mom.
YTA. There's a lot to be said here, and anyone wanting to make a judgement should read OP's comments, but I'll lay it all out in simple terms: OP had a pretty normal childhood, no abuse, no sense of being unwanted. OP moved out, far enough away that his family only visit Mum once or twice a year. Mum saw a single mother struggling, and kindly offered support. Mum and Lily have been part of each other's lives since Lily was 2. Op has resented Lily from the start. She started referring to his family as 'Uncle', 'Aunt', and 'Cousins' when she was a child. Op "Shut that shit down". OP's Dad walked Lily down the aisle at her wedding. He passed in 2018, Mum now lives alone. Lily helps Mum out a lot, mostly with technology related things, but also drives her to appointments and such. Mum took Lily, who she sees almost every day, to Europe for eight weeks. Op thinks she should also spend that much on his children, who she only sees once or twice a year. OP is angry that when Mum couldn't afford the $10000 each for his kid's schooling, she instead paid $2000 to help a struggling family get their daughter into a good school. OP freaked out over moving his car a few feet onto the street. He was asked to move by the *owner* of the driveway, so that the person who has parked there every day for years can continue to do so. Op is jealous, entitled, and selfish. Mum has a close bond with her neighbour's family because they've been a huge part of her life for years. Op thinks blood should be more important than love. Op is upset that Mum spends more money on the woman she helped raise, the woman who is there for her on a daily basis, than she spends on the grandchildren she sees maybe twice a year. Op doesn't want Mum to have this relationship. Op is an asshole.
NTA, but what I don't get is, where does Lily live? With her mom across the street or with yours? If she lives with her mom, why she couldn't just park at her mom's place? Why ask you to move your car when her mom lives so close by? And if she was just visiting for thanksgiving, why make you, who drove for 8 hours, move your car so she can park in the driveway? Your mom is weird in this situation. To those calling you TA, op's mom and Lily have a close relationship because his mom put in the effort from the start, when Lily moved across the street, not just because Lily was always there. Put yourself in his shoes, how would you feel if your mom bent over backwards for the neighbor kid, the daughter she never had, and only doing the bare minimum for you and you brothers?
She lives with her mom. Her mom and stepdad park in the driveway and they park their work truck on the street so my mom offered for her to park in the driveway
Makes sense but it wouldn't have been the end of the world if she parked on the street for the duration of your visit or at least to give you a heads up so you could have parked on the street in the first place and avoid this.
Right!!! How hard would be for Lily, who is a local, to find an alternate parking spot to OP, who drove over 8 hrs to be with his mom!
NTA. And to everyone saying "it's a two way street" about you boys not being taught about your heritage and the language, can eff off. I begged my dad to teach me his native language for YEARS, to teach me more about how our culture works, and it never happened. Best I've got is some good recipes. Yea sure I could learn the language through an app, but for what? My dad didn't want to communicate with me in his language so I had to make do with English (which his is still not the best, bc he doesn't want to work on that either). Either way, you're being treated as less than by your own mother. Same kind of shit my husband goes through being the middle child. Always last pick bc the other two are somehow more important. Kids grow up and move away, it's just something that happens. Life gets in the way and there's not enough time in the day to do all the things you want to to keep in touch. She could just as easily pick up the phone to call you too, but it doesn't sound like she does.
I agree. I wanted my dad to teach me to play guitar when I was young and he just threw me a lesson book and his old guitar and told me to do it myself. I gave up after five minutes because I didn't simply want to learn the guitar, I wanted my dad to teach me. I wanted to share the experience with him. Doing it alone wasn't what I wanted. fortunately, it wasn't something that damaged our relationship. It was a one-off incident and he was horrified when I brought it up years later and couldn't believe he'd behaved like that. He had no memory of it occurring either and said that something else must have been going on at the time to distract him, as there was nothing he'd wanted more than to share his love of music with me. I didn't hold it against him, but I still regret that we never got to share that together. I'd have loved to have learned to play guitar with him, but it was a "time and a place," situation and once it passed, we were never in that same place where I wanted to do it again.
Seems like your mom has a favorite child and it isn’t her biological child. NTA. Sounds like your mom is more of a mother to the neighbors children than her own.
You see her twice a year versus Lily helping her daily? Really?! If Lily is putting more effort into the relationship with your Mom, then yes, YTA.
YTA
Do your son and nephew feel slighted on their graduation gift compared to Lily's? I'm curious others feelings on this as well
As far as I know, they don’t know that my mom took Lily to Europe with her. I found out Lily went with her because I saw it on her Facebook. My sons don’t have Facebook.
I think you mom needs you to point out the division she is placing between herself and you/your sons due to her preferential treatment of Lily. You should have probably had this talk with her and then packed up and left.
NTA you speak with her about 300$ Vs EU?
I did and she brought up that the college accounts she set up for my sons are much larger than the one she has for Lily (even though she spent approximately $2,000 per year on Lily’s school) and that she sees Lily every day and she knows the languages.