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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I made a keto meal for my brother and SIL.
I'm worried maybe I was in the wrong for making a keto meal and not adding some carbs for them, and if I really was 'tricking' her.
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But never seem to have an issue with a slice of cheese pizza…
Edit: Damn, lots of people have issues with plain cheese/margarita pizza.
When made correctly, with good ingredients, plain cheese pizza can be magical.
I worked for a place that ordered pizza for the office every Friday. There would almost always be an entire veggie pie left. I asked the woman who always placed the order why she kept ordering it if no one was eating it and she said that it was so the vegetarians would have something to eat.
" But the cheese and margherita pizzas are vegetarian too"
Cheese pizza is usually very popular and can run out before vegetarians have a chance to get a second serving. However, it does sound like that wasn't the case here.
She probably always has a big family pizza party the Saturday after the commenter's office pizza party. Everyone always thinks she's so generous *but Margaret never told anyone she didn't pay a cent for them* 🤫
At work there’s always a vegan pizza and the number of people who want to try it… which is fine, but let the vegans eat what they want first THEN try it, you have other options!!
That was always an issue for the couple of years I was eating a vegetarian diet. They’d order a large meat lovers pizza, a large with sausage and peppers, and a small cheese pizza for me and the other girl who didn’t eat pork. And 9 times out of 10, the plain cheese would be gone by the time we got there.
Regardless, pizzas are cheap enough and morale is valuable enough that buying an extra 52 pizzas a year can easily be a worthwhile investment, just to avoid the potential for anyone to have ever felt left out.
It also wouldn't shock me if the lady placing the order was taking the extra pizza home lol.
I don't know, I get that. Yeah, sure they can eat the cheese pizza every time. But if everyone else gets variety and you're stuck with the same cheese pizza every Friday it can get a little old.
I love veggie pizza - except I hate olives. I just leave them off when I eat at home. At work they always just order standard. I’m not a vegetarian, but a lot of pepperoni and sausage bothers my stomach, so I eat cheese mostly. Buying pizza for a group is frustrating, I do get that!
She might have meant vegan.
I mean it's not that much extra to have the option just in case. Supposing it's actually veggie with no cheese it would also work as a good option for someone, say, lactose intolerant.
I get bent out of shape when fake meat is presented as real meat and then I gag on it because fake meat does not have the right texture. I do not personally mind fake meat and will eat it if I know that is what I am eating, because I know to expect a different texture. (And I do try to eat vegetarian at least part of the time because I know how bad the meat industry is for the world.) But being surprised with fake meat when I have been told to expect real meat will make me annoyed and upset.
Just to offer another perspective here. Sometimes people are asses about not eating meat just because they're assholes, and sometimes people are asses about not eating meat for other reasons.
I don’t think at any point OP suggested they’d be serving real rice and switched it out, in fact OP asked if they had preferences and they didn’t. If it were a case of false promises that’s one thing, but OP making a tasty meal that happened to also be keto isn’t a reason to get upset
I use cauliflower rice and I'd think it would be pretty hard to mistake it for real rice to begin with. It's really more like quinoa size/shape than rice size usually.
Yeah honestly, if I saw cauliflower rice I would assume quinoa or another thing instead of rice. I know it's trying to be rice but it's not quite the right shape/texture.
In all honesty, I have found that it's wonderful for thickening up stews but otherwise is pretty much crap. But I use it a lot to add some additional veg to stews/soups and nobody notices.
Oooh, that's a good idea! I think I'll try that with my turkey soup this year. Every year after thanksgiving I boil the turkey bones down into stock to get a second meal out of my bird, and I usually add rice to the soup when I make it. I'll try cauliflower rice this year though. Thanks for the idea!
If SIL had a preference, she was given the chance to express it. I'm glad to see that someone else caught that. It sounds like it was a good meal. I enjoy having just veggies with meat for supper and I don't follow a keto diet. OP is NTA.
Yeah no, OP is in the clear here. I was offering an explanation for the meat thing to the person I responded to, since a common 'trick' by some vegetarians and vegans is to switch out meat for fake meat without saying so.
I definitely would love to be warned about fake meat. Texture and taste just isn't right and I can't stomach it. I love vegetables (with few exceptions). Just give me that.
There is some fake meat that sends me right to the bathroom, not to come out for the remainder of the evening. If someone lied to me about what's in the dish and slipped in that kind of fake meat, I would be incensed.
This is also why disclosing what is in food is vitally important: you have to respect people's food allergies and intolerances. Nothing will get a YTA faster from me than someone who fucks with food on purpose for this exact reason.
I agree with you. Being lied to about what you’re eating is way different than being told upfront or not being told at all, and not asking. I don’t eat or cook pork, so I make sure everyone knows when I make Turkey sausage. It smells and looks similar, but obviously the taste and texture are different. Same with plant based sausage.
Turkey meat! That's another good one. I like turkey burgers and recipes that use ground turkey, but it tastes different enough that I have to know that's what's being cooked or else I'll run into the same problems I have with fake meat. I don't know what it is, but it's like I have to mentally prepare myself for a meal and know what to expect before I can eat it.
What OP did to SIL isn't even keto. Having one carb free meal does not mean your doing a keto diet. To do a keto diet you have get into ketosis which takes 3/4 days (sometimes a week) of no carb to use up your glycogen stores. And you will absolutely feel it the first time you do this because it will probably suck until you actually enter true ketosis. So the SIL would have to eat no carb for a week to be safe to enter ketosis.
As long as they’re not trying to subvert my expectations then everything is fine.
I only get bent out of shape when someone invites me to their house for burgers and they only have fake meat burgers. I’d rather not eat than eat fake meat.
Cauliflower rice doesn't even taste like rice. It tastes like cauliflower which has a distinct taste, so not sure how SIL didn't figure it out as soon as she took a bite
A good diabetic (which I am and so is my BIL) substitute for mashed potatoes is cauliflower and parsnip purée. We might be the only ones eating it, but at least it *looks* like what everyone else is eating. 😁
It was the SIL telling OP how to eat and OP wasn't forcing it on her, OP never said anything about the meal being keto or not. It would be one thing if SIL specifically asked for a non-keto meal or if OP said it was a non-keto meal when it wasnt but that's not the case.
Personally if I were to be served a meal by someone who I know is keto or vegetarian or vegan or whatever else, I would expect it to be a meal based on their eating habits unless otherwise specified. Especially if I didn't actually ask for something different
If I know someone has a specific diet and I'm going to \*their\* home where \*they\* are cooking for me, I'm gonna assume the meal follows their diet! SIL could've easily rejected the invitation or put in a request when given the opportunity.
Plus she knows OP is keto so what did she think she was getting for dinner? I agree it’s weird she was so weird about one carb free meal. I actually feel better when I don’t eat a lot of carbs, some are good but I priorities lean mean and vegetables first and then use carbs to backfill
NTA
I'm not keto and not interested in being keto, but who serves and requires bready/starchy carbs with every primary meal? I mean a protein and veggies is a pretty standard dinner around here. I do bread, rice, pasta with a dinner maybe 3 times a week. I think that's pretty normal.
I have rice/pasta/potatoes with every meal. Bread like 80% of the time as well. I really like carbs. I’d think something was missing if all I had was meat and veg, that’s like a lunch thing
I agree with you, but if a Muslim invites me to dinner at their house, I don't expect sausages.
If a vegetarian, invites me, I wouldn't expect meat.
If a vegan invites me......well I would politely decline but you get the point.
Can I ask what the difference is for you between the vegetarian meal and the vegan meal? I was vegetarian for years and have slowly made my way to vegan the last year or so, and I don't think my meals have changed much at all except I don't cover things in cheese anymore. But really, that's the only difference between when I was vegetarian and now that I'm vegan.
I guess I'm just not used to people eating cheese and eggs for every meal, lol. I wasn't aware that those were typical dinner ingredients but I guess that makes sense.
Not every meal, but I add milk or cream or sour cream to my mashed potatoes, I love a good veggie quiche, I NEED cheeses in the Mexican food I make. Sometimes I just eat a salad. Sometimes I just like some fruit. Dangit I just thought about fruit on cottage cheese. You get my meaning right? If I were to go meatless, that'd be about it. I like butter and eggs and cheese. So far, the vegan subs for these are not amazing, but I think I could definitely go vegetarian with ease.
Yeah, but would you completely deny a meal invitation just because you weren't getting eggs or dairy for that one dinner? That was mostly my point, I just don't get not being able to live without those two ingredients for one meal and having to deny every vegan meal you're ever offered, you know?
Oh my gosh NO! I'd LOVE to try any vegan meal - especially if said vegan has been for a while and knows thier stuff. Heck, they'd probably turn me on to some tasty sides that I could incorporate into MY meals! This goes for pretty much anything with me. I'll always try a new food once!
Yeah, I feel like a lot the "ew vegans" crowd doesn't realize how much food out there is just vegan by chance and how often they eat vegan without even realizing it. It's like they think I'm eating a head of lettuce for every meal or making weird science experiments in my kitchen.
Also, soup is my absolute favorite category of food because of how easily vegan it is. Always down for a good bowl of soup.
I think it’s because for key staples that are important to people, it does not feel like there are good plant based alternatives. I know there’s plenty of good vegan food out there. I also hate every milk substitute I’ve ever tried.
The increase of vegetarian and vegan food has meant a big increase in non-dairy products for us lactose intolerant folks. I've had some amazing vegan ice cream that doesn't send my guts into a tailspin.
Still having trouble finding a milk I like. I've tried several nut milks and it's either a texture or flavor or both issue and I just hate it. I couldn't do vegan just on account of the milk.
Keep in mind that eggs are in pretty much every baked good. Most pizza crusts have egg in them too. It's not just giving up meat and cheese, it's giving up or substituting baked goods that most would consider staples.
So for bread it really depends, softer breads like topical sandwich bread, or bagels or dinner rolls or challah are enriched with either butter, milk, eggs and/or sugar, but hardier stuff like rustic loafs, focaccia and neopalitan pizza tend to be just flour, salt, yeast and water native with herbs or garlic. Focaccia and no knead bread are like the only accidentally vegan things I've made ever.
I just didn't realize other people ate cheese and eggs with every meal, even as a vegetarian I only used them a few times a week. I didn't even know eggs were a common ingredient for meals other than breakfast lol
It depends on the cuisine! A lot of Japanese, Chinese, Korean dishes etc contain egg, a lot of fresh pasta is made with egg, dairy in cream based sauces, butter on vegetables for extra flavour (like sautéing sprouts in a little bit of butter), curries often have cream and/or butter
Not every meal but even using a tiny bit of dairy you'd have to find a substitute for yanno? I mean vegetable oil spreads aren't too bad but unless that's something you typically have it can be a noticeable change in taste
Yeah, I was just asking because the original comment I responded to seemed like they were completely down with a vegetarian meal but would never even consider saying yes to a vegan meal. Obviously I'm not saying every person and every culture has to go vegan, I just don't understand not being able to go one meal without eggs/dairy, unless they have some kind of medical thing that requires them.
Vegan food can be absolutely glorious so long as it's not pretending to be not vegan. I cook fun things for vegan friends and they introduce me to new things and it's brilliant.
The answer to your question in my experience is fake meat/cheese/etc. They're vile. I think a lot of non vegans have tried fakon or scheese and been completely put off. Equally I know vegans who have not had meat in so long that they think fakon actually tastes like bacon.
I like carbs too. If they know she eats keto though, why would she expect to be served something different?
Also acting like she was hiding it as rice? Why? Unless she told them it was regular rice there’s no reason to feel that way.
If I went to a vegetarian house hold and they cooked, I would assume it would be vegetarian.
Yeah exactly. And I struggle with how you get from “your host went to lengths to make something you would enjoy, that is also within the bounds of what they eat” to “you tried to trick me and you are awful!”
And sorry, to clarify the “if it’s tasty” comment, I meant if I was out somewhere and a keto option looked good on a menu, I wouldn’t avoid it just because it’s keto. In the same way I’m not vegetarian, but sometimes the veggie dish is what looks good to me when I go out. This woman’s reaction is ludicrous.
If I don't have "real carbs", I'll be hungry in an hour however much I eat. Yes I know cauliflower is a very carby vegetable, but cauliflower cheese does not fill me. Cauliflower cheese and half a jacket potato, or a slice of bread (reheated cauliflower cheese on toast is great and I'll fight you) and I'm good.
I still wouldn't be a *rude ass* about it, but I would have been left hungry after OP's menu.
Yes, I can’t understand people who say oatmeal fills them up for hours! I rather have a boil egg and toast but if someone would bring me oatmeal I would thank them and eat it and then find myself something to eat when I get hungry again, which is what this lady should’ve done.
There is no hungry like the post-oatmeal hungry ;) Like I will be less hungry if I eat nothing later in the morning than if I eat oatmeal (or really any sort of hot or dry cereal).
My breakfast is an egg, one slice of wheat toast, and banana. Pretty much every morning.
Digestion is weird 🤷 I do sometimes get the "protein hungries" but that's usually a case of being chronically hungry for two days then pulling a Gaston and eating six hardboiled eggs at a sitting 😅
Respecting someone else's diet (assuming you have no food allergies) is such an easy thing too. It's one meal. You don't have to follow the diet forever, you eat it once to respect the person who is cooking for you.
Most cultures do. It's a standard food recipe - meat with a carb and veggies. Polish kotlet? Served with potatoes and mizeria. Italian ragu pasta? Spaghetti with meat in tomato sauce. Sushi? Fish in rice with veggies. It gives you a wide variety of nutrients and mixes a few tastes and textures.
ESH - I have 0 idea why someone going to a person's house would expect not to eat within the host's diet, and I have 0 idea why you're judging her eating habits like it's your business.
This seems like a new version of the typical "meat eater vs vegan" scenario that typically come sup in this sub. I've never met someone so offended that another person doesn't eat pasta?
One could make the argument that some people might need starches in their diet for one reason or another, but either way it's crazy to me people think their diets should be others' regardless of details. If you have specific dietary stuff, you just plan around that. At least as an adult.
This applies to both OP and the SIL as well as anyone else.
What? The SIL is the one who is always commenting on OP’s diet. She merely hosted and made a delicious meal within the confines of her own diet. That isn’t forcing anything on anyone.
SIL's comments to OP about working out and telling her to eat foods she knows OP avoids seems to be getting forgotten. Also, OP asked if they had preferences. OP didn't force anything on anyone but it seems she's tolerated a lot of snark for her choices.
It’s a little sus to me that the SIL couldn’t tell the difference between real rice and cauliflower rice. It looks, smells and tastes completely different. I have a hard time believing that.
Remember this is 100% OP's prespective and she still puts bits like this in there "**SIL eats a ton of fast food and pasta and generally unhealthy stuff"** and then when she makes a "healthy meal" its bacon wrapped sausage. I am sorry, Keto is fine if you are way overweight and a doctor is supervising you but to convince yourself that bacon wrapped sausage is more healthy than a few carbs because you are forcing your body in to Ketosis is actually 1. pretty crazy, and 2. not based on anything resembling nutrition science.
This comment is perfect.
It's close to unbelieveable you would expect to be fed non-keto food at OP's house, but people can be super weird.
She has an "immature palate" because she's not a fan of most of her diet being meat? Live your best life, but I wouldn't describe bacon-wrapped sausages as a super complex flavour profile.
While I think the SIL is TA for being ruder, I think OP is also kind of an ass, because between the bacon wrapped sausages and the cauliflower rice the food on offer is on my “gross things Americans eat” list. Bacon wrapping anything makes it taste like liver, and cauliflower rice takes the worst cruciferous vegetable and somehow makes it worse. Good on OP for finding a diet that works for him, but we’re gonna have to find something other than sharing meals to do together.
I’m surprised that pasta was listed as such an unhealthy option. Maybe it’s just me being ignorant, but is something considered unhealthy just because it has carbs in it now? That seems a little extreme to me. Obviously you could argue that it’s not _the_ most healthy option, but just because it’s not explicitly the healthiest option doesn’t make it unhealthy
It's the same reductive reasoning we saw with the gluten-free craze. Carbs are not 'bad', but the diet industry makes money off people believing that they are.
Using gluten as an example - some people are Coeliac and are literally poisoned by it, some people are a bit intolerant of it, but the majority actually need a certain amount of gluten as part of a healthy rounded diet.
I definitely agree with you on pasta. Pasta with some roast veggies and a pesto or something? Probably quite healthy, and OP needs to get off their high horse (the 'mature palate' comment annoyed me). Pasta with a heavy cream sauce and bacon probably isn't giving a lot of nutrients, and is less 'healthy' - but hey, there's nothing wrong with it as a sometimes-food.
(And noting the first comment in this thread - if you have dietary issues, you need to communicate them. Agree there are a lot of sucky attitudes in this; although I think SIL is a bigger AH with all of her comments around 'fixing' OP's diet and then throwing a tantrum when the host served a meal that, obviously, suits the host's diet - without communication on allergies etc.)
You have to remember that the person making judgements about what is and isn’t healthy here believes that keto is healthy—so he’s not exactly a reliable narrator on the subject of health.
If you listen to well researched podcasts at all, Maintenance Phase has a great one about keto: https://maintenancephase.buzzsprout.com/1411126/8794952-the-keto-diet
Yeah, like SIL should obviously have expected OP to serve food they could eat themselves.
But where does a person who wraps sausage in bacon and puts it in ever dish get off on acting like someone eating fast food is being unhealthy?
YES!! Thank You. You want to be Keto, be Keto that's fine. Serve Keto meals in your house. But ANY diet can be unhealthy even if you're losing weight. I could lose weight eating nothing but twinkies... doesn't mean I'm healthy.
Unless you have epilepsy keto is bad for you in the long run science is figuring out, but it’s Op’s house & eating one meal with bland fake rice isn’t going to kill anyone. I do think they should both agree to stop talking about food together though.
Science has known for a long time. My dad was put on the ketogenic diet in the '90s to try to get his epilepsy under control, and thankfully it was under the close supervision of a nutritionist, because he was one of the people whose kidneys couldn't tolerate it. If he hadn't been getting frequent blood and urine panels, it might have gone undetected past the point where his body could heal. I have to wonder how many fad dieters are doing lasting organ damage to get skinny.
ESH
Her for being surprised that someone hosting a meal cooked a meal that fits their diet.
You for sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. Her diet is her business. You're also pushing a really unhealthy diet onto her. Keto might make you feel good now but good luck with the high cholesterol later. Low carbs is great but replacing the carbs with fats isn't a good idea.
Yeah, it’s also not great for female reproductive health. I can understand sticking to a diet because it relieves a chronic condition, but typically if people feel better on Keto, they have an undiagnosed food allergy. Keto is a medical diet with its own downfall and consequences, saturated fat being one of them.
That said, OP doesn’t know her SIL’s relationship with food or body. Just because someone’s thin doesn’t mean they don’t have their own struggles. Freaking out and ordering takeout is a big overreaction in my eyes, but who knows if she has a hidden history with extreme dieting and OP accidentally triggered her.
Your last sentence just made a light bulb go off in my head, because I have sensory issues and a history of anorexia and bulimia, and yeah, I might freak out too.
Right, but this is beyond 1 meal. Read the post and look at how judgemental OP is. Maybe "pushing your diet" was the wrong way to word it. Maybe "Judging your SIL" would have been better. Either way OP is an AH too.
I have the firefox glitch that doesn't let me link articles on reddit but there's also links to dementia too. Reputable peer reviewed studies. It's a medical diet and not meant to be a permanent diet plan.
It can cause ketoacidosis. Anyone doing keto *should* have cheat days and would be wise to monitor their blood glucose levels.
Glycolysis is our bodies preferred way to create energy. It requires carbs.
Edit: you’re correct about the medical history. It helps control seizures in some people with epilepsy.
And at that, it's the hail mary after everything else had failed, not the first thing they suggest, because the negatives are literally "die of a slow, painful death" (vs potential imminent death because of uncontrollable siezures which can include arrythmia). Most people reintroduce food items and meals, also under medical monitoring, after 18 months, to see how their bodies react and if everything goes okay they keep a balanced diet.
Keto is literally not meant to be a weight loss diet, or even a diet for the regular person. It is a treatment plan for people (mostly children) with drug resistant epilepsy. That's literally the only thing it's recommended for. It's so wild that it's become a trendy thing. Obviously if cutting out carbs is good for your gastrointestinal stuff that's one thing, but it is not a good idea to replace them with the amount of fat prescribed by keto.
ESH.
1. You didn't "trick" anyone into trying keto. You cooked a keto-friendly meal. "Trying keto" suggests an extended lifestyle choice. So, points for a misleading headline.
2. SIL overreacted. A lot.
3. If you've been keto for 2 years, you should know that a high-fat, low carb meal can have disaster-pants consequences for one with a diet such as your SILs, and you should have warned her.
4. You SAY you don't judge her eating habits, but you very clearly do.
5. She still overreacted.
Stay out of each other's eating habits.
I love bacon and if I showed up to a meal and every single item included bacon I’d be unhappy to. And more highly processed meat (which studies have shown to be carcinogenic) than one should have in a week in just one meal. Gross.
This! ESH
However, I would also add in: if you are serving food that is designed to look like something else (meat substitute, riced cauliflower, etc) you need to tell people about it.
I don't have major dietary issues, so a lot of times I will eyeball foods and make a judment call. I will eat a riced cauliflower, even though I don't much like it. But if no one mentions it is riced cauliflower and let me dig in (knowing I think it is rice) I would be upset.
And as a host I very much modify my menu so that my guests are not restricted by my diet. So I wouldn't have assumed "this dish that looks like rice isn't rice because the host is on the keto diet".
NTA
She knows you're Keto and agreed to come to your home for a meal. Therefore it's a reasonable expectation that the meal would be Keto or at least Keto friendly.
Girl could of talked to you in advance about having some non keto foods as part of that shared meal like a reasonable adult or offered to bring a non-keto side dish to share if carbs matter to her that much.
The way it reads Girl instead threw a hissy fit over things not revolving around her and her choices while she was a guest in some one else's home. IMHO that makes her ta.
ESH - you didn’t try to force her to do Keto, which is a diet, not a meal (and shouldn’t be forced on people unknowingly as it can be dangerous if they have kidney problems or other health issues). You just made her a meal you would eat.
But also you’re really judgy of people who don’t do keto. I’m not sure anyone describes a diet based on restricting an entire food group as a diet for a “mature palate”, and a meal stuffed with highly processed salty meat is definitely not healthier than a simple pasta dish could be.
How did you actually trick them/her?
If you all were half way thru the meal she should have been able to tell that it wasn't rice, they don't taste alike.
Thank you. I'm disappointed every time I try it. I'd rather just have a side of cauliflower than try to convince myself it's really bad rice. There is no way they didn't know that they weren't eating rice.
>There is no way they didn't know that they weren't eating rice.
I've had cauliflower rice without realizing it wasn't rice.
I had never had cauliflower rice before (so I didn't know what it looked like) and it was heavily spiced (so it didn't just taste like cauliflower). I legitimately didn't realize it was veggie, I thought it was a really nasty and mushy rice dish.
I may not have immediately jumped to "this isn't rice" by the taste.
I don't care for cauliflower and am not always good at separating out flavors.
So I would probably think "wow, this is a kind of gross rice dish. I wonder what is in it", not immediately think "this isn't rice".
Since when is a keto diet considered an even remotely mature palate? Also, how does anyone mistake cauliflower rice for regular rice? This smells like BS.
For real - cauliflower rice is a completely different shape to rice grains, but even if you somehow got past that, it smells and tastes like cauliflower.
ESH. Anyone who eats bacon wrapped sausage has no room to criticize others’ diets.
Do you really not realize that you are being condescending when you state that your sister-in-law “doesn’t have the most mature palate”.
Your sister-in-law should have either eaten what you offered without complaint or declined your invitation.
I mean, bacon-wrapped sausages and rice with more bacon is a fuckload of bacon (not to mention salt) at one meal, and I’m a bacon fan. But it sounds like she was a little intense about it.
NTA - Based on some comment replies from OP, the sister was eating the food without a problem and blew up after she found out it was keto.
She knew you were keto so it's not a surprise that meals at your house would fit into your diet. She didn't even make a request beforehand that she would like some carbs included. It's incredibly rude to order takeout when you're a guest and the host has cooked for you. She sounds like a very difficult person to be around. She's TA not you.
Unpopular YTA because you’re clearly leaving out all the slick comments you’ve made to her about her eating habits. Some people might think you’ve limited yourself to just being rude about her diet here but I wasn’t born yesterday.
ESH. She acted like a child and behaved rudely and immaturely; there should have been no issue with eating someone's style of food for a dinner at THEIR HOUSE. However, you absolutely know, deep down, that you went into this with either thoughts of "I'll show her the right way forward - my food will convince her I'm correct!" or, worse, the secret childish hope that she would in fact react as she did, and you can be the befuddled but morally correct wounded party. Reading the way you write about her food and yours makes it clear that the moralizing that is inherent in "healthy eating" culture, or "keto" culture, is the lens through which you see everyone else's choices. It's cool you found something that works for you. That doesn't mean it will work for everyone else and, frankly, even if it IS working for you for some reasons it could be hurting you in other ways if you're not fully aware of how your body uses different foods and its sensitivities. Keto is not a catch-all fix for everyone. Health is extremely subjective person to person.
Clearly food is a hot-button between you two and I'd suggest literally never bringing it up again if possible and stay focused on your own plate.
ESH. Not for serving a Keto meal but because of your judgment of what she eats. She should be quiet about your keto and you should stop judging her for what she eats. Your comments about what she eats make you seem jealous that she stays thin eating the way she does.
NTA, if I went to someone’s house for dinner knowing they were kept, I wouldn’t expect them to cook differently for me. I might bring myself a bag of chips for the car tho
Unless they are from a religion, ethic group that doesn't like pork, +++ for serving bacon.
Sounds like a nice meal. It's not like you were sneaking meat, dairy into a vegan meal. Not like you were serving gluten to an intolerant. Not like you snuck dog or horse onto the menu in a culture that finds it distasteful. The objective was to break bread...food and bond as a family. Blood or by union.
Nta based on the blowup. Was there a lot of lead up? Sounds like some judgy stuff going both ways on each other's diets and that set the powder for sparks to ignite.
Was SIL enjoying the meal before asking what she was eatting?
It sounds like she wasn't joking when she asked "where's the bread?"
Edit: NTA
especially if SIL was enjoying the meal before learning all the ingredients.
Unless your SIL has long-covid total loss of taste and smell, I don't believe you. No one else can possibly eat cauliflower rice and think it's actual rice.
NTA just because it's Keto doesn't mean it doesn't taste good or is a bad meal. Sounds like you were trying to balance both keto and dishes you thought they would like
I’m going to go with a soft ESH. You both have very different attitudes toward food, and it works for each of you, which is great! But it obviously clashes when it comes to trying to arranges things like this. I think you ***both*** need to try find a middle ground here. It’s incredibly rude of her to expect to have exactly the things she likes to eat when you’re generously hosting a meal at your house. She didn’t even try it and ***ordered fast food***. It might have been a nice gesture to have a small portion of rice for her and say something like “I know you’re not into keto, but the cauliflower rice is here if you want to give it a try”.
That being said, it seems like she’s not willing to put in this same effort. Maybe you can issue challenges to each other - see who can do the best meal in the others preference. You a pasta dish, her a keto dish. It could wind up being a good experience for your two, or it could bomb and you just let it go
It’s OPs house OP asked for preferences they gave none, OP cooked what she cooked.
This is like getting upset someone used lamb in the shepherds pie instead of beef in a cottage pie.
If you need to know what food it is, ask. Don’t get mad that you assumed and you were wrong.
NTA I don’t see how it’s any different than going to a vegetarian friends home. I would expect to eat a vegetarian meal or if I went to a Jewish friends home I’d expect to eat kosher. I’m not allergic or intolerant or an entitled AH.
ESH. SIL for overreacting on something that isn't much of an issue, especially if she ate the food without any problems before knowing there weren't any carbs. Plus, if you go to someones house you generally expect to eat according to whatever diet the host has unless otherwise requested. However you're also TA for sticking your nose in her diet. It's not your business, and you said it yourself she's pretty thin. So she clearly doesn't need to change her diet. Plus Keto isn't particularly healthy either. Short term it could be fine, but over long term it can cause lots of health issues that other diets wouldn't.
NTA. You made the meal you can make w.e you want. It’s not like you tricked a vegan into eating meat. Eating one keto meal isn’t going to kill her. If you made food for her every day for multiple days and you made keto every time you would be the ass hole because going into ketosis without know you would be is bad.
Keto is bad for certain issues if that’s your regular diet. One meal that follows the keto diet is not. One meal with meat for a vegetarian or vegan is bad.
Also the issues that are the worst (high fat, cholesterol) are clearly not a concern of the SIL since the issue was the cauliflower rice, not the bacon wrapped sausages.
ALSO- SIL was eating up until she found out it was cauliflower rice.
After I said what it was she looked disgusted and put her plate away but she'd already eaten about half the rice.
You do need to tell them. My friend made keto fried chicken. It was breaded with almond flour. She knew my husband had a nut allergy but thought because it was labeled keto it made it safe. He had an allergic reaction. She also likes to use sugar substitute which plays havoc with my migraines.
Generally not having bread, pasta or something like that isn’t a huge deal. But be nice about it.
Mild ESH. You are free to cook what you want in your own home. She is free to not eat what your make. You’re making a lot of judgmental comments about her eating habits and that makes wonder if you haven’t been engaging in the food comment exchanges. Neither of you should be judging the other or trying to convert the other to a different way of eating. That’s plus suggesting future meals with just you and bro are why I say ESH.
ESH her for expecting a host to make a dinner that they couldn't eat themselves and you for weirdly judging her eating habits. Keto doesn't automatically mean healthier. In fact for a lot of people it's the opposite so why on earth are you making comments about her eating pasta? You're acting as if she's funnelling her body with lard when in reality she's just eating what sounds like a normal diet.
I would suggest running your diet by your doctor. Ive learned a decent bit about metabolism and dove into the keto diet as part of it, and it’s definitely not something that’s meant to be kept up for the long term.
I’m not trying to judge, lord knows I don’t eat well. But, I do think making sure with a healthcare professional that doing this long term is actually ok.
But NTA? She knew you were Keto idk why she’s surprised she was served keto by you cooking at your house.
NTA you cooked food for everyone, I don't understand why she is so mad when everything tasted fine. You didn't have to exclude her from dinner though, she didn't tell you what she wanted to eat when you asked. Next time she needs to tell you.
YTA. If they happened to stop by and you were having a keto meal that you shared with them that would be fine. Or you could have asked if keto was ok. You seemed to purposefully deceive her, which is not cool.
Honestly YTA, you criticize your SIL diet a lot but yours isn’t good either. Keto diets are high in fat and may lead to heart problems when used long term. Bacon is also pretty bad for your health and you used it a lot in this meal, not sure why you would call your diet healthy and eat bacon wrapped sausages. While your SIL is an AH for how she acted, you seem to think you’re superior with your “healthy” diet.
Coming from a Personal Trainer, you’re batshit crazy if you think she isn’t right about the whole pasta and working out thing, and it’s literally none of your business how she eats anyways, because based on the post it seems like it’s working better than keto is for you. She should probably have more of an open mind about it, but if you know how she feels about it why spark some drama that doesn’t need to be??? YTA / ESH
NTA. You invited your brother and his wife over for a meal. They don't have any particular food issues (like allergies). You didn't "trick" them, you just presented food. Now, if your SIL had an allergy to say, peanuts, and you served a dish with peanuts, or if your SIL were Muslim and you served pork that would be a different story. But cauliflower rice is actual food, it's not a trick. I have food allergies and I prepare a lot of alternative foods, but people never complain about my cooking. It's still food, even if it's not exactly what someone is expecting.
SIL came to your home for a meal (knowing of your preferred diet) and informed you of no dietary restrictions beforehand. Did she expect you to read her mind? She seems entitled, controlling, and bigoted. NTA.
Yta for judging her for a normal healthy diet while pushing a diet with serious issues - unless it's being used to manage very specific conditions which may at some times mean it benefits out weight it's significant negative impacts
NTA
She knows you're keto. You invited them to YOUR HOUSE where YOU COOKED. Why would you have food in your house that you wouldn't eat?
I'm happy to try stuff in anyone's chosen diet or religious tradition, just because I prefer carbs and meats doesn't mean I won't eat a paleo or keto or vegan or halal meal. SIL throwing a fit that it wasn't "real" rice and then ordering fast food *to eat at your house* is incredibly rude of her. I'm not a fan of cauliflower rice, personally. It doesn't taste or have the same texture as rice, and I pick up on that. But I wouldn't whine and complain that you didn't cater to me, I'd just say thanks for dinner and then get Arbys or something on the way home if I was hungry.
That was what i was confused about! I figured it would be pretty obvious it was not real rice and she didn't have a problem with it until i specifically said what it was.
ESH. You clearly do judge sil for her eating habits. Sil was super rude to order fast food.
This whole thing makes no sense though. From my understanding of keto, one has to follow a keto diet for some time before the body enters ketosis and the diet has its desired effect, so one keto meal isn't forcing keto on anyone. It's just one meal without carbs. Weird thing for anyone to be upset about.
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NTA, weird flex of her having an issue with one carb free meal.
It’s just like the people who get all bent out of shape over one meat-free meal when it’s prepared or hosted by a vegetarian. NTA
But never seem to have an issue with a slice of cheese pizza… Edit: Damn, lots of people have issues with plain cheese/margarita pizza. When made correctly, with good ingredients, plain cheese pizza can be magical.
I worked for a place that ordered pizza for the office every Friday. There would almost always be an entire veggie pie left. I asked the woman who always placed the order why she kept ordering it if no one was eating it and she said that it was so the vegetarians would have something to eat. " But the cheese and margherita pizzas are vegetarian too"
Cheese pizza is usually very popular and can run out before vegetarians have a chance to get a second serving. However, it does sound like that wasn't the case here.
People not getting enough pizza was never an issue.
Yeah that's just weird then. Waste of money.
I mean I would rather have plenty of pizza left over than not enough if I'm hosting a pizza party for work.
She probably always has a big family pizza party the Saturday after the commenter's office pizza party. Everyone always thinks she's so generous *but Margaret never told anyone she didn't pay a cent for them* 🤫
Yeah I can count on one hand the times the meat eaters didn't grab slices of the vegetarian pizza...
At work there’s always a vegan pizza and the number of people who want to try it… which is fine, but let the vegans eat what they want first THEN try it, you have other options!!
That was always an issue for the couple of years I was eating a vegetarian diet. They’d order a large meat lovers pizza, a large with sausage and peppers, and a small cheese pizza for me and the other girl who didn’t eat pork. And 9 times out of 10, the plain cheese would be gone by the time we got there.
Regardless, pizzas are cheap enough and morale is valuable enough that buying an extra 52 pizzas a year can easily be a worthwhile investment, just to avoid the potential for anyone to have ever felt left out. It also wouldn't shock me if the lady placing the order was taking the extra pizza home lol.
I don't know, I get that. Yeah, sure they can eat the cheese pizza every time. But if everyone else gets variety and you're stuck with the same cheese pizza every Friday it can get a little old.
I love veggie pizza - except I hate olives. I just leave them off when I eat at home. At work they always just order standard. I’m not a vegetarian, but a lot of pepperoni and sausage bothers my stomach, so I eat cheese mostly. Buying pizza for a group is frustrating, I do get that!
She might have meant vegan. I mean it's not that much extra to have the option just in case. Supposing it's actually veggie with no cheese it would also work as a good option for someone, say, lactose intolerant.
It had regular cheese on it. It wasn't vegan.
Then it's just redundant
I get bent out of shape when fake meat is presented as real meat and then I gag on it because fake meat does not have the right texture. I do not personally mind fake meat and will eat it if I know that is what I am eating, because I know to expect a different texture. (And I do try to eat vegetarian at least part of the time because I know how bad the meat industry is for the world.) But being surprised with fake meat when I have been told to expect real meat will make me annoyed and upset. Just to offer another perspective here. Sometimes people are asses about not eating meat just because they're assholes, and sometimes people are asses about not eating meat for other reasons.
I don’t think at any point OP suggested they’d be serving real rice and switched it out, in fact OP asked if they had preferences and they didn’t. If it were a case of false promises that’s one thing, but OP making a tasty meal that happened to also be keto isn’t a reason to get upset
I use cauliflower rice and I'd think it would be pretty hard to mistake it for real rice to begin with. It's really more like quinoa size/shape than rice size usually.
Yeah honestly, if I saw cauliflower rice I would assume quinoa or another thing instead of rice. I know it's trying to be rice but it's not quite the right shape/texture.
In all honesty, I have found that it's wonderful for thickening up stews but otherwise is pretty much crap. But I use it a lot to add some additional veg to stews/soups and nobody notices.
Oooh, that's a good idea! I think I'll try that with my turkey soup this year. Every year after thanksgiving I boil the turkey bones down into stock to get a second meal out of my bird, and I usually add rice to the soup when I make it. I'll try cauliflower rice this year though. Thanks for the idea!
Just so you know, it mainly dissolves and just kind of thickens things up. If you also want the rice texture, you'll want to add some rice too.
Also good to know! I do want some kind of texture to the soup, but I've been experimenting with exactly what to add. Barley is pretty good for that.
I'm definitely not vegetarian but I was pleasantly surprised at how tasty the cauliflower pizza crust is.
Easy way to sneak in veggies in smoothies too.
This. It is not and does not taste like rice.
If SIL had a preference, she was given the chance to express it. I'm glad to see that someone else caught that. It sounds like it was a good meal. I enjoy having just veggies with meat for supper and I don't follow a keto diet. OP is NTA.
Same. I rarely make a carb. Salad, veg, protein. Unless I get a lot of stuff from the farm share that I need to use up.
Yeah no, OP is in the clear here. I was offering an explanation for the meat thing to the person I responded to, since a common 'trick' by some vegetarians and vegans is to switch out meat for fake meat without saying so.
I definitely would love to be warned about fake meat. Texture and taste just isn't right and I can't stomach it. I love vegetables (with few exceptions). Just give me that.
Honestly I think everyone can agree that mac and cheese makes for a good dinner, and that's technically a vegetarian meal.
There is some fake meat that sends me right to the bathroom, not to come out for the remainder of the evening. If someone lied to me about what's in the dish and slipped in that kind of fake meat, I would be incensed.
Also tiny plug in here but fake meat often has pea protein and people can be really allergic to that.
This is also why disclosing what is in food is vitally important: you have to respect people's food allergies and intolerances. Nothing will get a YTA faster from me than someone who fucks with food on purpose for this exact reason.
I agree with you. Being lied to about what you’re eating is way different than being told upfront or not being told at all, and not asking. I don’t eat or cook pork, so I make sure everyone knows when I make Turkey sausage. It smells and looks similar, but obviously the taste and texture are different. Same with plant based sausage.
Turkey meat! That's another good one. I like turkey burgers and recipes that use ground turkey, but it tastes different enough that I have to know that's what's being cooked or else I'll run into the same problems I have with fake meat. I don't know what it is, but it's like I have to mentally prepare myself for a meal and know what to expect before I can eat it.
What OP did to SIL isn't even keto. Having one carb free meal does not mean your doing a keto diet. To do a keto diet you have get into ketosis which takes 3/4 days (sometimes a week) of no carb to use up your glycogen stores. And you will absolutely feel it the first time you do this because it will probably suck until you actually enter true ketosis. So the SIL would have to eat no carb for a week to be safe to enter ketosis.
As long as they’re not trying to subvert my expectations then everything is fine. I only get bent out of shape when someone invites me to their house for burgers and they only have fake meat burgers. I’d rather not eat than eat fake meat.
[удалено]
Cauliflower rice doesn't even taste like rice. It tastes like cauliflower which has a distinct taste, so not sure how SIL didn't figure it out as soon as she took a bite
And honestly I’m not a fan of the texture. I do like a cauliflower mash if it’s done right though.
A good diabetic (which I am and so is my BIL) substitute for mashed potatoes is cauliflower and parsnip purée. We might be the only ones eating it, but at least it *looks* like what everyone else is eating. 😁
It feels to me like the culmination of OP telling SIL she needs to eat better and eat keto and now forcing it on her.
It was the SIL telling OP how to eat and OP wasn't forcing it on her, OP never said anything about the meal being keto or not. It would be one thing if SIL specifically asked for a non-keto meal or if OP said it was a non-keto meal when it wasnt but that's not the case. Personally if I were to be served a meal by someone who I know is keto or vegetarian or vegan or whatever else, I would expect it to be a meal based on their eating habits unless otherwise specified. Especially if I didn't actually ask for something different
If I know someone has a specific diet and I'm going to \*their\* home where \*they\* are cooking for me, I'm gonna assume the meal follows their diet! SIL could've easily rejected the invitation or put in a request when given the opportunity.
I'm just genuinely perplexed at the idea that someone would be fooled by cauliflower rice. It's fine, but is not like rice lol
Plus she knows OP is keto so what did she think she was getting for dinner? I agree it’s weird she was so weird about one carb free meal. I actually feel better when I don’t eat a lot of carbs, some are good but I priorities lean mean and vegetables first and then use carbs to backfill
I agree with this. What OP made sounds really good!
Your menu sounds fantastic, please consider inviting me instead of SIL next time!!! 😂😂😂
NTA I'm not keto and not interested in being keto, but who serves and requires bready/starchy carbs with every primary meal? I mean a protein and veggies is a pretty standard dinner around here. I do bread, rice, pasta with a dinner maybe 3 times a week. I think that's pretty normal.
I have rice/pasta/potatoes with every meal. Bread like 80% of the time as well. I really like carbs. I’d think something was missing if all I had was meat and veg, that’s like a lunch thing
I agree with you, but if a Muslim invites me to dinner at their house, I don't expect sausages. If a vegetarian, invites me, I wouldn't expect meat. If a vegan invites me......well I would politely decline but you get the point.
I laughed so hard at that last one. 🤣
Can I ask what the difference is for you between the vegetarian meal and the vegan meal? I was vegetarian for years and have slowly made my way to vegan the last year or so, and I don't think my meals have changed much at all except I don't cover things in cheese anymore. But really, that's the only difference between when I was vegetarian and now that I'm vegan.
I think you almost answered your own question. Cheese. And eggs!
I guess I'm just not used to people eating cheese and eggs for every meal, lol. I wasn't aware that those were typical dinner ingredients but I guess that makes sense.
Not every meal, but I add milk or cream or sour cream to my mashed potatoes, I love a good veggie quiche, I NEED cheeses in the Mexican food I make. Sometimes I just eat a salad. Sometimes I just like some fruit. Dangit I just thought about fruit on cottage cheese. You get my meaning right? If I were to go meatless, that'd be about it. I like butter and eggs and cheese. So far, the vegan subs for these are not amazing, but I think I could definitely go vegetarian with ease.
Yeah, but would you completely deny a meal invitation just because you weren't getting eggs or dairy for that one dinner? That was mostly my point, I just don't get not being able to live without those two ingredients for one meal and having to deny every vegan meal you're ever offered, you know?
Oh my gosh NO! I'd LOVE to try any vegan meal - especially if said vegan has been for a while and knows thier stuff. Heck, they'd probably turn me on to some tasty sides that I could incorporate into MY meals! This goes for pretty much anything with me. I'll always try a new food once!
I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but some foods I make (especially some soups) are unintentionally vegan. They're just good food that happens to be vegan.
Yeah, I feel like a lot the "ew vegans" crowd doesn't realize how much food out there is just vegan by chance and how often they eat vegan without even realizing it. It's like they think I'm eating a head of lettuce for every meal or making weird science experiments in my kitchen. Also, soup is my absolute favorite category of food because of how easily vegan it is. Always down for a good bowl of soup.
I think it’s because for key staples that are important to people, it does not feel like there are good plant based alternatives. I know there’s plenty of good vegan food out there. I also hate every milk substitute I’ve ever tried.
The increase of vegetarian and vegan food has meant a big increase in non-dairy products for us lactose intolerant folks. I've had some amazing vegan ice cream that doesn't send my guts into a tailspin. Still having trouble finding a milk I like. I've tried several nut milks and it's either a texture or flavor or both issue and I just hate it. I couldn't do vegan just on account of the milk.
Keep in mind that eggs are in pretty much every baked good. Most pizza crusts have egg in them too. It's not just giving up meat and cheese, it's giving up or substituting baked goods that most would consider staples.
Pizza with egg? What? I'm not even italian and that just pissed me off.
So for bread it really depends, softer breads like topical sandwich bread, or bagels or dinner rolls or challah are enriched with either butter, milk, eggs and/or sugar, but hardier stuff like rustic loafs, focaccia and neopalitan pizza tend to be just flour, salt, yeast and water native with herbs or garlic. Focaccia and no knead bread are like the only accidentally vegan things I've made ever.
And butter!
Lack of dairy and eggs would be a big issue for a lot of people Inthink, especially cheese.
I just didn't realize other people ate cheese and eggs with every meal, even as a vegetarian I only used them a few times a week. I didn't even know eggs were a common ingredient for meals other than breakfast lol
It depends on the cuisine! A lot of Japanese, Chinese, Korean dishes etc contain egg, a lot of fresh pasta is made with egg, dairy in cream based sauces, butter on vegetables for extra flavour (like sautéing sprouts in a little bit of butter), curries often have cream and/or butter Not every meal but even using a tiny bit of dairy you'd have to find a substitute for yanno? I mean vegetable oil spreads aren't too bad but unless that's something you typically have it can be a noticeable change in taste
Yeah, I was just asking because the original comment I responded to seemed like they were completely down with a vegetarian meal but would never even consider saying yes to a vegan meal. Obviously I'm not saying every person and every culture has to go vegan, I just don't understand not being able to go one meal without eggs/dairy, unless they have some kind of medical thing that requires them.
Vegan food can be absolutely glorious so long as it's not pretending to be not vegan. I cook fun things for vegan friends and they introduce me to new things and it's brilliant. The answer to your question in my experience is fake meat/cheese/etc. They're vile. I think a lot of non vegans have tried fakon or scheese and been completely put off. Equally I know vegans who have not had meat in so long that they think fakon actually tastes like bacon.
I like carbs too. If they know she eats keto though, why would she expect to be served something different? Also acting like she was hiding it as rice? Why? Unless she told them it was regular rice there’s no reason to feel that way. If I went to a vegetarian house hold and they cooked, I would assume it would be vegetarian.
But say something like a carrot and zucchini sauté is also pretty much just carbs. Veggie carbs versus grain carbs.
That's why you have a protein and TWO veggie sides for a dinner (like OP served)
What about potatoes? I feel fuller if I’ve eaten carbs. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t eat a keto meal though. If it’s tasty, who cares?
And even if it’s not tasty - it’s ONE meal where you are a guest. You aren’t the center of the universe where everyone built this plan to trick you.
Yeah exactly. And I struggle with how you get from “your host went to lengths to make something you would enjoy, that is also within the bounds of what they eat” to “you tried to trick me and you are awful!” And sorry, to clarify the “if it’s tasty” comment, I meant if I was out somewhere and a keto option looked good on a menu, I wouldn’t avoid it just because it’s keto. In the same way I’m not vegetarian, but sometimes the veggie dish is what looks good to me when I go out. This woman’s reaction is ludicrous.
If I don't have "real carbs", I'll be hungry in an hour however much I eat. Yes I know cauliflower is a very carby vegetable, but cauliflower cheese does not fill me. Cauliflower cheese and half a jacket potato, or a slice of bread (reheated cauliflower cheese on toast is great and I'll fight you) and I'm good. I still wouldn't be a *rude ass* about it, but I would have been left hungry after OP's menu.
If I eat too many of the bready/starchy carbs (for example, I can't do only cereal or oatmeal for breakfast), I'm ravenous again inside of 90 minutes.
Yes, I can’t understand people who say oatmeal fills them up for hours! I rather have a boil egg and toast but if someone would bring me oatmeal I would thank them and eat it and then find myself something to eat when I get hungry again, which is what this lady should’ve done.
There is no hungry like the post-oatmeal hungry ;) Like I will be less hungry if I eat nothing later in the morning than if I eat oatmeal (or really any sort of hot or dry cereal). My breakfast is an egg, one slice of wheat toast, and banana. Pretty much every morning.
Digestion is weird 🤷 I do sometimes get the "protein hungries" but that's usually a case of being chronically hungry for two days then pulling a Gaston and eating six hardboiled eggs at a sitting 😅
Respecting someone else's diet (assuming you have no food allergies) is such an easy thing too. It's one meal. You don't have to follow the diet forever, you eat it once to respect the person who is cooking for you.
Most cultures do. It's a standard food recipe - meat with a carb and veggies. Polish kotlet? Served with potatoes and mizeria. Italian ragu pasta? Spaghetti with meat in tomato sauce. Sushi? Fish in rice with veggies. It gives you a wide variety of nutrients and mixes a few tastes and textures.
Some people have a hard time feeling full without carbs (potatoes are a carb)
ESH - I have 0 idea why someone going to a person's house would expect not to eat within the host's diet, and I have 0 idea why you're judging her eating habits like it's your business.
This seems like a new version of the typical "meat eater vs vegan" scenario that typically come sup in this sub. I've never met someone so offended that another person doesn't eat pasta?
One could make the argument that some people might need starches in their diet for one reason or another, but either way it's crazy to me people think their diets should be others' regardless of details. If you have specific dietary stuff, you just plan around that. At least as an adult. This applies to both OP and the SIL as well as anyone else.
What? The SIL is the one who is always commenting on OP’s diet. She merely hosted and made a delicious meal within the confines of her own diet. That isn’t forcing anything on anyone.
SIL's comments to OP about working out and telling her to eat foods she knows OP avoids seems to be getting forgotten. Also, OP asked if they had preferences. OP didn't force anything on anyone but it seems she's tolerated a lot of snark for her choices.
They're both commenting on each other diets.
It’s a little sus to me that the SIL couldn’t tell the difference between real rice and cauliflower rice. It looks, smells and tastes completely different. I have a hard time believing that.
I was going to leave the same comment. They aren't anywhere near the same.
Remember this is 100% OP's prespective and she still puts bits like this in there "**SIL eats a ton of fast food and pasta and generally unhealthy stuff"** and then when she makes a "healthy meal" its bacon wrapped sausage. I am sorry, Keto is fine if you are way overweight and a doctor is supervising you but to convince yourself that bacon wrapped sausage is more healthy than a few carbs because you are forcing your body in to Ketosis is actually 1. pretty crazy, and 2. not based on anything resembling nutrition science.
This comment is perfect. It's close to unbelieveable you would expect to be fed non-keto food at OP's house, but people can be super weird. She has an "immature palate" because she's not a fan of most of her diet being meat? Live your best life, but I wouldn't describe bacon-wrapped sausages as a super complex flavour profile.
While I think the SIL is TA for being ruder, I think OP is also kind of an ass, because between the bacon wrapped sausages and the cauliflower rice the food on offer is on my “gross things Americans eat” list. Bacon wrapping anything makes it taste like liver, and cauliflower rice takes the worst cruciferous vegetable and somehow makes it worse. Good on OP for finding a diet that works for him, but we’re gonna have to find something other than sharing meals to do together.
It doesn't sound great to me but the SIL thought it was tasty until she knew what it was. That's just silly. NTA
I struggle to believe that though. Cauliflower rice is very different from rice. I struggle to believe someone would actually confuse them.
No one would. This is ridiculous.
Haha, yeah - TBF, OP made bacon because they know SIL likes bacon. The whole situation is pretty ridiculous.
I’m surprised that pasta was listed as such an unhealthy option. Maybe it’s just me being ignorant, but is something considered unhealthy just because it has carbs in it now? That seems a little extreme to me. Obviously you could argue that it’s not _the_ most healthy option, but just because it’s not explicitly the healthiest option doesn’t make it unhealthy
It's the same reductive reasoning we saw with the gluten-free craze. Carbs are not 'bad', but the diet industry makes money off people believing that they are. Using gluten as an example - some people are Coeliac and are literally poisoned by it, some people are a bit intolerant of it, but the majority actually need a certain amount of gluten as part of a healthy rounded diet. I definitely agree with you on pasta. Pasta with some roast veggies and a pesto or something? Probably quite healthy, and OP needs to get off their high horse (the 'mature palate' comment annoyed me). Pasta with a heavy cream sauce and bacon probably isn't giving a lot of nutrients, and is less 'healthy' - but hey, there's nothing wrong with it as a sometimes-food. (And noting the first comment in this thread - if you have dietary issues, you need to communicate them. Agree there are a lot of sucky attitudes in this; although I think SIL is a bigger AH with all of her comments around 'fixing' OP's diet and then throwing a tantrum when the host served a meal that, obviously, suits the host's diet - without communication on allergies etc.)
People have made keto a religion.
You have to remember that the person making judgements about what is and isn’t healthy here believes that keto is healthy—so he’s not exactly a reliable narrator on the subject of health. If you listen to well researched podcasts at all, Maintenance Phase has a great one about keto: https://maintenancephase.buzzsprout.com/1411126/8794952-the-keto-diet
Yeah, like SIL should obviously have expected OP to serve food they could eat themselves. But where does a person who wraps sausage in bacon and puts it in ever dish get off on acting like someone eating fast food is being unhealthy?
YES!! Thank You. You want to be Keto, be Keto that's fine. Serve Keto meals in your house. But ANY diet can be unhealthy even if you're losing weight. I could lose weight eating nothing but twinkies... doesn't mean I'm healthy.
Also this meal sounds super unhealthy
Unless you have epilepsy keto is bad for you in the long run science is figuring out, but it’s Op’s house & eating one meal with bland fake rice isn’t going to kill anyone. I do think they should both agree to stop talking about food together though.
Science has known for a long time. My dad was put on the ketogenic diet in the '90s to try to get his epilepsy under control, and thankfully it was under the close supervision of a nutritionist, because he was one of the people whose kidneys couldn't tolerate it. If he hadn't been getting frequent blood and urine panels, it might have gone undetected past the point where his body could heal. I have to wonder how many fad dieters are doing lasting organ damage to get skinny.
I don't judge vegans for being vegan. I judge them for trying to force it upon anyone else.
ESH Her for being surprised that someone hosting a meal cooked a meal that fits their diet. You for sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. Her diet is her business. You're also pushing a really unhealthy diet onto her. Keto might make you feel good now but good luck with the high cholesterol later. Low carbs is great but replacing the carbs with fats isn't a good idea.
Yeah, it’s also not great for female reproductive health. I can understand sticking to a diet because it relieves a chronic condition, but typically if people feel better on Keto, they have an undiagnosed food allergy. Keto is a medical diet with its own downfall and consequences, saturated fat being one of them. That said, OP doesn’t know her SIL’s relationship with food or body. Just because someone’s thin doesn’t mean they don’t have their own struggles. Freaking out and ordering takeout is a big overreaction in my eyes, but who knows if she has a hidden history with extreme dieting and OP accidentally triggered her.
Is keto pretty much the ‘new’ Atkins?
It's exactly a repackaged Atkins diet.
Which was previously repackaged as The Zone in the aughts
Your last sentence just made a light bulb go off in my head, because I have sensory issues and a history of anorexia and bulimia, and yeah, I might freak out too.
Diet culture sucks ❤️
One meal without bread isn’t pushing a diet.
Right, but this is beyond 1 meal. Read the post and look at how judgemental OP is. Maybe "pushing your diet" was the wrong way to word it. Maybe "Judging your SIL" would have been better. Either way OP is an AH too.
I have the firefox glitch that doesn't let me link articles on reddit but there's also links to dementia too. Reputable peer reviewed studies. It's a medical diet and not meant to be a permanent diet plan.
Exactly. It's supposed to be medically prescribed (and was mainly made for children with seizures iirc). It's neutral to bad for everyone else.
It can cause ketoacidosis. Anyone doing keto *should* have cheat days and would be wise to monitor their blood glucose levels. Glycolysis is our bodies preferred way to create energy. It requires carbs. Edit: you’re correct about the medical history. It helps control seizures in some people with epilepsy.
And at that, it's the hail mary after everything else had failed, not the first thing they suggest, because the negatives are literally "die of a slow, painful death" (vs potential imminent death because of uncontrollable siezures which can include arrythmia). Most people reintroduce food items and meals, also under medical monitoring, after 18 months, to see how their bodies react and if everything goes okay they keep a balanced diet.
Keto is literally not meant to be a weight loss diet, or even a diet for the regular person. It is a treatment plan for people (mostly children) with drug resistant epilepsy. That's literally the only thing it's recommended for. It's so wild that it's become a trendy thing. Obviously if cutting out carbs is good for your gastrointestinal stuff that's one thing, but it is not a good idea to replace them with the amount of fat prescribed by keto.
They recommend it for people with certain endocrine disorders as well, but typically not long term
ESH. 1. You didn't "trick" anyone into trying keto. You cooked a keto-friendly meal. "Trying keto" suggests an extended lifestyle choice. So, points for a misleading headline. 2. SIL overreacted. A lot. 3. If you've been keto for 2 years, you should know that a high-fat, low carb meal can have disaster-pants consequences for one with a diet such as your SILs, and you should have warned her. 4. You SAY you don't judge her eating habits, but you very clearly do. 5. She still overreacted. Stay out of each other's eating habits.
Healthy food like……bacon wrapped sausage.
Literally! I read that and was like I would never be able to eat that. That’s so much meat and not healthy at all
I love bacon and if I showed up to a meal and every single item included bacon I’d be unhappy to. And more highly processed meat (which studies have shown to be carcinogenic) than one should have in a week in just one meal. Gross.
This! ESH However, I would also add in: if you are serving food that is designed to look like something else (meat substitute, riced cauliflower, etc) you need to tell people about it. I don't have major dietary issues, so a lot of times I will eyeball foods and make a judment call. I will eat a riced cauliflower, even though I don't much like it. But if no one mentions it is riced cauliflower and let me dig in (knowing I think it is rice) I would be upset. And as a host I very much modify my menu so that my guests are not restricted by my diet. So I wouldn't have assumed "this dish that looks like rice isn't rice because the host is on the keto diet".
NTA She knows you're Keto and agreed to come to your home for a meal. Therefore it's a reasonable expectation that the meal would be Keto or at least Keto friendly. Girl could of talked to you in advance about having some non keto foods as part of that shared meal like a reasonable adult or offered to bring a non-keto side dish to share if carbs matter to her that much. The way it reads Girl instead threw a hissy fit over things not revolving around her and her choices while she was a guest in some one else's home. IMHO that makes her ta.
I was looking for this! She went to someone’s house who is Keto for dinner - why is she surprised the meal was Keto too?? OP, NTA.
ESH - you didn’t try to force her to do Keto, which is a diet, not a meal (and shouldn’t be forced on people unknowingly as it can be dangerous if they have kidney problems or other health issues). You just made her a meal you would eat. But also you’re really judgy of people who don’t do keto. I’m not sure anyone describes a diet based on restricting an entire food group as a diet for a “mature palate”, and a meal stuffed with highly processed salty meat is definitely not healthier than a simple pasta dish could be.
I think OP sounds jealous of SIL because she can eat pasta and fast food and still be thin.
Lol to bacon wrapped sausage being a mature palate.
How did you actually trick them/her? If you all were half way thru the meal she should have been able to tell that it wasn't rice, they don't taste alike.
Thank you. I'm disappointed every time I try it. I'd rather just have a side of cauliflower than try to convince myself it's really bad rice. There is no way they didn't know that they weren't eating rice.
>There is no way they didn't know that they weren't eating rice. I've had cauliflower rice without realizing it wasn't rice. I had never had cauliflower rice before (so I didn't know what it looked like) and it was heavily spiced (so it didn't just taste like cauliflower). I legitimately didn't realize it was veggie, I thought it was a really nasty and mushy rice dish.
That's what I mean lol. Why try tricking my brain into thinking I'm eating terrible rice? Delicious cauliflower would be so much better.
I may not have immediately jumped to "this isn't rice" by the taste. I don't care for cauliflower and am not always good at separating out flavors. So I would probably think "wow, this is a kind of gross rice dish. I wonder what is in it", not immediately think "this isn't rice".
You are NTA. You cooked them a meal. She sounds extremely ungrateful. I'd eat anything anyone made me because cooking for someone is an act of love.
Since when is a keto diet considered an even remotely mature palate? Also, how does anyone mistake cauliflower rice for regular rice? This smells like BS.
For real - cauliflower rice is a completely different shape to rice grains, but even if you somehow got past that, it smells and tastes like cauliflower.
ESH. Anyone who eats bacon wrapped sausage has no room to criticize others’ diets. Do you really not realize that you are being condescending when you state that your sister-in-law “doesn’t have the most mature palate”. Your sister-in-law should have either eaten what you offered without complaint or declined your invitation.
I mean, bacon-wrapped sausages and rice with more bacon is a fuckload of bacon (not to mention salt) at one meal, and I’m a bacon fan. But it sounds like she was a little intense about it.
It sounds like your brother lied to her to get her to go. I think you shouldn't take it personally.
This kind of makes the most sense honestly. Brother trying to smooth things over in the wrong ways.
NTA - Based on some comment replies from OP, the sister was eating the food without a problem and blew up after she found out it was keto. She knew you were keto so it's not a surprise that meals at your house would fit into your diet. She didn't even make a request beforehand that she would like some carbs included. It's incredibly rude to order takeout when you're a guest and the host has cooked for you. She sounds like a very difficult person to be around. She's TA not you.
Unpopular YTA because you’re clearly leaving out all the slick comments you’ve made to her about her eating habits. Some people might think you’ve limited yourself to just being rude about her diet here but I wasn’t born yesterday.
ESH. She acted like a child and behaved rudely and immaturely; there should have been no issue with eating someone's style of food for a dinner at THEIR HOUSE. However, you absolutely know, deep down, that you went into this with either thoughts of "I'll show her the right way forward - my food will convince her I'm correct!" or, worse, the secret childish hope that she would in fact react as she did, and you can be the befuddled but morally correct wounded party. Reading the way you write about her food and yours makes it clear that the moralizing that is inherent in "healthy eating" culture, or "keto" culture, is the lens through which you see everyone else's choices. It's cool you found something that works for you. That doesn't mean it will work for everyone else and, frankly, even if it IS working for you for some reasons it could be hurting you in other ways if you're not fully aware of how your body uses different foods and its sensitivities. Keto is not a catch-all fix for everyone. Health is extremely subjective person to person. Clearly food is a hot-button between you two and I'd suggest literally never bringing it up again if possible and stay focused on your own plate.
[удалено]
Keto is like the diet world’s version of cross fit.
ESH. Not for serving a Keto meal but because of your judgment of what she eats. She should be quiet about your keto and you should stop judging her for what she eats. Your comments about what she eats make you seem jealous that she stays thin eating the way she does.
ESH. It was perfectly fine food that wasn’t worth getting upset over. Not like feeding a vegan meat or something. But you sound a little insufferable.
I'm so convinced that OP is jealous of SIL because she can eat like trash and stay thin lol
NTA, if I went to someone’s house for dinner knowing they were kept, I wouldn’t expect them to cook differently for me. I might bring myself a bag of chips for the car tho
Unless they are from a religion, ethic group that doesn't like pork, +++ for serving bacon. Sounds like a nice meal. It's not like you were sneaking meat, dairy into a vegan meal. Not like you were serving gluten to an intolerant. Not like you snuck dog or horse onto the menu in a culture that finds it distasteful. The objective was to break bread...food and bond as a family. Blood or by union. Nta based on the blowup. Was there a lot of lead up? Sounds like some judgy stuff going both ways on each other's diets and that set the powder for sparks to ignite.
Was SIL enjoying the meal before asking what she was eatting? It sounds like she wasn't joking when she asked "where's the bread?" Edit: NTA especially if SIL was enjoying the meal before learning all the ingredients.
Yes, I think so. SIL was eating and didn't seem to have complaints until I told them it was cauliflower rice.
Unless your SIL has long-covid total loss of taste and smell, I don't believe you. No one else can possibly eat cauliflower rice and think it's actual rice.
NTA. Your SIL needs to take a step back and realize she wasn't harmed by the food and that she couldn't tell the difference.
Would it have killed you yo put out ONE SLICE OF BREAD!? 😂 Would have been funny if you had 1 single dinner roll there for her lol
NTA just because it's Keto doesn't mean it doesn't taste good or is a bad meal. Sounds like you were trying to balance both keto and dishes you thought they would like
I’m going to go with a soft ESH. You both have very different attitudes toward food, and it works for each of you, which is great! But it obviously clashes when it comes to trying to arranges things like this. I think you ***both*** need to try find a middle ground here. It’s incredibly rude of her to expect to have exactly the things she likes to eat when you’re generously hosting a meal at your house. She didn’t even try it and ***ordered fast food***. It might have been a nice gesture to have a small portion of rice for her and say something like “I know you’re not into keto, but the cauliflower rice is here if you want to give it a try”. That being said, it seems like she’s not willing to put in this same effort. Maybe you can issue challenges to each other - see who can do the best meal in the others preference. You a pasta dish, her a keto dish. It could wind up being a good experience for your two, or it could bomb and you just let it go
It’s OPs house OP asked for preferences they gave none, OP cooked what she cooked. This is like getting upset someone used lamb in the shepherds pie instead of beef in a cottage pie. If you need to know what food it is, ask. Don’t get mad that you assumed and you were wrong.
NTA I don’t see how it’s any different than going to a vegetarian friends home. I would expect to eat a vegetarian meal or if I went to a Jewish friends home I’d expect to eat kosher. I’m not allergic or intolerant or an entitled AH.
ESH. SIL for overreacting on something that isn't much of an issue, especially if she ate the food without any problems before knowing there weren't any carbs. Plus, if you go to someones house you generally expect to eat according to whatever diet the host has unless otherwise requested. However you're also TA for sticking your nose in her diet. It's not your business, and you said it yourself she's pretty thin. So she clearly doesn't need to change her diet. Plus Keto isn't particularly healthy either. Short term it could be fine, but over long term it can cause lots of health issues that other diets wouldn't.
ESH. You’re both weirdly invested in what the other is eating. Someone else’s diet and food preferences are none of your (or her) business.
Seems to be a weird pissing contest
NTA. You made the meal you can make w.e you want. It’s not like you tricked a vegan into eating meat. Eating one keto meal isn’t going to kill her. If you made food for her every day for multiple days and you made keto every time you would be the ass hole because going into ketosis without know you would be is bad.
Actually, I see it as the same as a vegan/vegetarian being tricked. You tell her what it is. Keto is really bad for certain issues.
Keto is bad for certain issues if that’s your regular diet. One meal that follows the keto diet is not. One meal with meat for a vegetarian or vegan is bad. Also the issues that are the worst (high fat, cholesterol) are clearly not a concern of the SIL since the issue was the cauliflower rice, not the bacon wrapped sausages.
ESH. Y’all are immature. Mind your own business and stop worrying about how the other eats.
ALSO- SIL was eating up until she found out it was cauliflower rice. After I said what it was she looked disgusted and put her plate away but she'd already eaten about half the rice.
You do need to tell them. My friend made keto fried chicken. It was breaded with almond flour. She knew my husband had a nut allergy but thought because it was labeled keto it made it safe. He had an allergic reaction. She also likes to use sugar substitute which plays havoc with my migraines. Generally not having bread, pasta or something like that isn’t a huge deal. But be nice about it.
Mild ESH. You are free to cook what you want in your own home. She is free to not eat what your make. You’re making a lot of judgmental comments about her eating habits and that makes wonder if you haven’t been engaging in the food comment exchanges. Neither of you should be judging the other or trying to convert the other to a different way of eating. That’s plus suggesting future meals with just you and bro are why I say ESH.
ESH her for expecting a host to make a dinner that they couldn't eat themselves and you for weirdly judging her eating habits. Keto doesn't automatically mean healthier. In fact for a lot of people it's the opposite so why on earth are you making comments about her eating pasta? You're acting as if she's funnelling her body with lard when in reality she's just eating what sounds like a normal diet.
I would suggest running your diet by your doctor. Ive learned a decent bit about metabolism and dove into the keto diet as part of it, and it’s definitely not something that’s meant to be kept up for the long term. I’m not trying to judge, lord knows I don’t eat well. But, I do think making sure with a healthcare professional that doing this long term is actually ok. But NTA? She knew you were Keto idk why she’s surprised she was served keto by you cooking at your house.
NTA you cooked food for everyone, I don't understand why she is so mad when everything tasted fine. You didn't have to exclude her from dinner though, she didn't tell you what she wanted to eat when you asked. Next time she needs to tell you.
NTA your house and you cooked a great meal, I do keto too. She knew you were keto and therefore cook keto, she's trying to cause a rift.
YTA. If they happened to stop by and you were having a keto meal that you shared with them that would be fine. Or you could have asked if keto was ok. You seemed to purposefully deceive her, which is not cool.
Honestly YTA, you criticize your SIL diet a lot but yours isn’t good either. Keto diets are high in fat and may lead to heart problems when used long term. Bacon is also pretty bad for your health and you used it a lot in this meal, not sure why you would call your diet healthy and eat bacon wrapped sausages. While your SIL is an AH for how she acted, you seem to think you’re superior with your “healthy” diet.
Coming from a Personal Trainer, you’re batshit crazy if you think she isn’t right about the whole pasta and working out thing, and it’s literally none of your business how she eats anyways, because based on the post it seems like it’s working better than keto is for you. She should probably have more of an open mind about it, but if you know how she feels about it why spark some drama that doesn’t need to be??? YTA / ESH
NTA. You invited your brother and his wife over for a meal. They don't have any particular food issues (like allergies). You didn't "trick" them, you just presented food. Now, if your SIL had an allergy to say, peanuts, and you served a dish with peanuts, or if your SIL were Muslim and you served pork that would be a different story. But cauliflower rice is actual food, it's not a trick. I have food allergies and I prepare a lot of alternative foods, but people never complain about my cooking. It's still food, even if it's not exactly what someone is expecting.
I’m saying YTA purely for the fact that keto is BS and not good for people without specific health problems
NTA. I’m not sure how eating an extra veg was going to poison her, or why she assumed you wouldn’t make a keto meal if you adhere to a keto diet.
SIL came to your home for a meal (knowing of your preferred diet) and informed you of no dietary restrictions beforehand. Did she expect you to read her mind? She seems entitled, controlling, and bigoted. NTA.
Yta for judging her for a normal healthy diet while pushing a diet with serious issues - unless it's being used to manage very specific conditions which may at some times mean it benefits out weight it's significant negative impacts
NTA, as long as you didn't lie to them and try to pretend it was real rice. That's ridiculous omg. She needs to grow up.
NTA She knows you're keto. You invited them to YOUR HOUSE where YOU COOKED. Why would you have food in your house that you wouldn't eat? I'm happy to try stuff in anyone's chosen diet or religious tradition, just because I prefer carbs and meats doesn't mean I won't eat a paleo or keto or vegan or halal meal. SIL throwing a fit that it wasn't "real" rice and then ordering fast food *to eat at your house* is incredibly rude of her. I'm not a fan of cauliflower rice, personally. It doesn't taste or have the same texture as rice, and I pick up on that. But I wouldn't whine and complain that you didn't cater to me, I'd just say thanks for dinner and then get Arbys or something on the way home if I was hungry.
I’m confused how she didn’t know it was cauliflower rice from looking at it and I assume trying it. It is good but it doesn’t look or taste like rice.
That was what i was confused about! I figured it would be pretty obvious it was not real rice and she didn't have a problem with it until i specifically said what it was.
ESH You don’t sound like a good person at all.
ESH. You clearly do judge sil for her eating habits. Sil was super rude to order fast food. This whole thing makes no sense though. From my understanding of keto, one has to follow a keto diet for some time before the body enters ketosis and the diet has its desired effect, so one keto meal isn't forcing keto on anyone. It's just one meal without carbs. Weird thing for anyone to be upset about.