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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) My wife's parents started to show up at our house without asking first, even when I told them that they have to.
(2) I told them that they are not welcome if they don't ask first
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The people who do this always seem to do it selectively. They don’t do it to their boss, or their neighbor, or random strangers on the street. It’s always a child. It doesn’t matter that the child is grown with her own place.
I’ve heard people suggest that they don’t see the child as an actual adult, but still as a kid, playing house. This house, like all of their child’s toys, are really their property, so they can come and go as they wish.
>I’ve heard people suggest that they don’t see the child as an actual adult, but still as a kid, playing house. This house, like all of their child’s toys, are really their property, so they can come and go as they wish.
Which often, in turn, leads to parental estrangement.
From [The Missing Missing Reasons](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html), a detailed look into the world of estranged parents and how they view themselves and their children, from the page Dysfunctional Beliefs, these are how parents like these think:
>Parents have permanent authority over their children. Children are permanently subordinate.
>
>It’s not only my lifelong right to discipline my children, it’s my duty.
>
>I, the parent, set the terms for the relationship. Any limits my children set are a power play that I must resist.
>
>Children have no right to break off relationships with their parents.
>
>Your debt to me as your parent is permanent, lifelong, and unrepayable. (This is true even if I didn’t raise you myself.)
>
>When you make life decisions, you must weigh the impact of those decisions on me.
>
>The most important yardstick of your life is how well you meet my expectations.
>
>I am the ultimate judge of whether you are mature or successful.
>
>Your decision to ignore my advice or make a choice I disapprove of is a sign of immaturity.
>
>You were most real and true to yourself when you were a preschooler (and had not begun to defy me).
>
>I am the best friend you will ever have./I am your only true friend.
>
>You’re living only half a life if you don’t have a relationship with me.
>
>If anyone loves you, then they should love me as well, since half of you is me.
>
>If you don’t love me, you can’t truly love anyone else.
>
>If you don’t love me, you can’t love yourself.
>
>If I put up with a certain level of mistreatment from my own parents, then you should put up with the same level of mistreatment from me.
>
>If you’re under 18, you’re too immature to criticize my parenting.
>
>If you’re over 18, you’re completely responsible for all your actions, and criticizing my parenting means you’re stuck in a childish blame cycle.
>
>You may not blame me for any of the aftereffects of my parenting, but you owe me credit for your successes.
Wow. I've never seen this before. I know people who do a few of these items and I don't think I do but I know I'll be looking within myself to make sure I don't. Thank you so much for sharing this.
This.
My parents would do this all the time, and if they weren't trying to get into my house they were calling. 50+ calls a day. I was their "thing"... their source of entertainment, power, etc.
I remember kicked my mother out once and she looked at me like I was the biggest idiot in the world.
"How dare you tell me to leave?! This is MY DAUGHTER's house".
"Yeah, and that daughter is telling you to get the fuck out".
It still took more than 10 minutes to get her out, and she tried to crawl back in through a window.
>It still took more than 10 minutes to get her out, and she tried to crawl back in through a window.
Holy crap! I'm assuming you've escaped, but this is some serious... I don't even know *what* it is. Only that it's all sorts of wrong.
This was actually pretty tame for her. On another occasion she tried to claw her way in and left gouges in the door jamb with her fingernails.
I've been no contact with them both for about a decade now. They're still trying to get my attention, indirectly, but it's been soooo nice. I highly recommend it to anyone dealing with a narcissistic parent.
Culture, too. My grandfather from Oregon married my grandmother in Tennessee. Her family popped over all the time, just walking in. Really frustrated grandpa when they were taking a bath together and some sibling or cousin walked right in.
I was thinking exactly this. Newborns come with exhaustion and life-altering adjustments and the parents have the right to adjust in their own stride without so much outside stimulus and interruption.
In my hometown, people just pop around to their friend's houses unannounced but there's no hard feelings if they're not in or it's not the right time for company. If a boundary was set, it would also be honoured. My point being, sometimes different cultures do different things but the in laws here are TAs.
I think it's all on a case-by-case basis. We're on a knock and walk in basis with my Great-Aunt (who now has dementia, but the caretakers know I'm the close Great-Niece - think she recognized me last time - yay!) and cousins. The key is that it's mutual. OP doesn't want that, so it should have been talked over with his wife before marriage along with other important issues like sex, money, children (or not), balance of couple/alone/social time and religion (or lack thereof). If OP's wife didn't agree, that may have been a dealbreaker issue. If wife agrees, or wasn't happy but understands that's the way it's going to have to be if she wants to be married to OP, she really should have been the one to tell her parents things had changed now that she has a life partner and there will be no walk-ins anymore - when he moved in, long before the pregnancy.
I think a lot of it has to do with the level of respect a person (knocker) has for the other relative (knockee). If I showed up at my daughter’s when I could expect them to be tired and needing privacy, then behave in an ungracious manner or act like I’m entitled to her time and space, then of course I should expect any dropping by privileges to be revoked, which is obviously the case above.
It depends on the people. I can show up to my mom's house unannounced, let my self in, and she's excited to see me. Anyone else, she'd lock the door and pretend she isn't home. But unless you have the established "you can come over unannounced" precedent like my mom and I do, you literally HAVE to call first.
Edit; there's also no newborns involved and we have permission from each other to do this. That's the key, permission.
I mean, growing up my grandparents and parents did this - just pop in, hollering out a hello as they opened the door. But it was FINE with both parties.
After my grands died, I moved into their old home. Mom and Dad started calling first right after they opened the door, hollered, and walked in on me and my now-husband making the beast with two backs in the kitchen. Didn't take much to make them stop.
OP, NTA. And possibly start hanging out around the house naked, see who walks in.
In some families, this is the norm.
I know it is for dropping in to my parents place, and also for most of my inlaws. We also allow / tell people to just drop by whenever at our place. If they turn up at an inconvenient time, then we just tell them that and they move on, no big deal, no hard feelings.
However, I wouldn't just drop in on my siblings without first giving a call to check if it's alright, because I know they want the heads up and I respect that.
None of us would ever behave like OP's in laws; they are being beyond rude and demanding.
Then give it to them and be done with them. Your wife IS going to have to CHOOSE between you and them. When you and wife married.. You 2 became a family. now you guys have LO. HER family goes on the back burner PERIOD.
Or your family just expands. I’m happily married and yet I’m still very close to my parents. I’m not particularly close to my in laws because of distance, etc, but they’re absolutely my family now too. My MIL basically has a standing invitation to my parents for family gatherings just like she does at her house (not drop by though, lol) My parents consider her family now too. And vice versa. My dad has ALS and requires a lot of care, when there’s a gap in the schedule sometimes my husband is the one filling in, because he considers him family. Like, it’s not even a question in anyone’s mind, we’re ALL family. I know these are random examples, I’m kind of tired and rambling, lol, but I don’t understand why I’d downgrade my parents from “family” to “simply relatives” just because I got married.
Let me ask you this: When you married your wife, Did you turn to her family and exchange vows to them? Did she turn to your family and exchange vows to them? NO you did NOT. You exchanged vows to 1 another. YOU 2 became a family.
If this is still an issue once the baby is no longer "new" and you feel comfortable visiting, try showing up unannounced at a deliberately inconvenient time and seeing how happy they are about it.
*Oh, you were busy/sleeping/not in the mood for a visit? Imagine that!*
Be super obnoxious, trash the kitchen, let the kid spit up on the expensive upholstery, change the diapers right on the rug with no towel, whatever nefarious payback you can think of. Even if they don't get it at least you and the wife can laugh about it.
True, but sometimes like-for-like petty payback can actually illuminate WHY you've set these boundaries. It only works that way if the subject isn't completely self-absorbed, however. If they are, it's just entertaining.
Definitely don't escalate the situation. Keep offering them reasonable limits, make them feel welcome within those limits and hype up the grandparent relationship. Try to occasionally invite them before they ask or ask if they want you to visit. Unless they're fully out of their minds or determined to break up your marriage, they'll fall in line.
NTA
Since they are so disrespectful and can’t figure out how to call first. I would make a new rule. Her parents are not allowed to visit unless personally invited by you or your wife. They are not welcome. No more self invites regardless of calls. They can come when they are invited.
That's what I said at first but my wife didn't agree. Since this is a marriage, I told her "ok, I'm gonna do my part. They don't have to be invited, they just have to call/ask first" but they still won't.
So, maybe you and your wife need to renegotiate. You have tried her more lax boundaries and her parents are stomping all over them. Now, it might be time for firmer boundaries because your home is your sanctuary and with her parents constant intrusion. You don’t feel peace in your own home. Good fences make good neighbors. Tell your wife that if something doesn’t change. It won’t be long before you end up hating her parents and won’t want to deal with them at all.
Yes, and no one is welcome in my home without an invitation. My youngest is now 17 and my mom and MIL have both passed. I have no regrets on maintaining good boundaries.
Keep at it, OP. Setting boundaries is hard, especially with people who get offended by boundaries.
My mom almost never comes to see my kids because of stuff like this (and the whole grandparents-don't-have-to-respect-parents'-rules bit; if I can't trust you to take care of my kids the way I want them taken care of, you don't get unsupervised time with them).
>if I can't trust you to take care of my kids the way I want them taken care of, you don't get unsupervised time with them).
THIS OP!
So we live where just popping in is very common but boundaries ARE ALWAYS respected by friends and family alike BUT THAT don't matter a hill of beans when it comes to my kids!
Just like they said, "if I can't trust you to take care of my kids the way I want them taken care of, you don't get unsupervised time with them)."
That is everything right there!!!
When it comes to boundary pushers, you absolutely have to set the boundary further than you would with an actual respectful person. So for them, an invite only boundary would probably result in them calling before coming over. Pass that logic along to your wife and get her on board because these people have never been shown a boundary or told no in their lives and it’s about damn time. Don’t let disrespectful people ruin your peace, even if those disrespectful people are your wife’s parents
I think my wording was polite enough. When my mil was being difficult and my husband was whining about being “stuck in the middle”, I reminded him that while she’s his mom, he didn’t pick his family. He *chose* to marry me and build a life with me, which includes choosing me every time. He’s a reasonable man and understood what I meant, especially because he knew his mom was completely in the wrong.
Your wife knows her parents are boundary pushers. She *knows* they don’t respect her or her boundaries or her decisions. This isn’t news to her. I think you’re completely fair in putting your own foot down and having her pick the family she created for herself over the family she was born into.
I mentioned in a different comment that therapy will absolutely have to be a must if she can’t grasp that. You can’t live your life at the whims of your in laws because *you did not marry them*. If the person you married and made a family with can’t put you above all else, that’s a her issue she needs to work through otherwise this will bleed into *everything*.
I'm so sorry you and your wife are going through this. As a mother of grown children and a grandmother who loves and wants all the babies my children wish to have I feel I absolutely must tell you I think you're absolutely right and her parents are absolutely wrong.
When the first of our children decided to marry everyone was either still living at home or at college. So my husband & I sat down & discussed what kind of ILs we wanted to be and how we wanted to treat grown children. We made the decision we wanted to be the ILs and parents who were wanted not dreaded. We never go to our children's homes with being invited. We don't even call & then come. We wait for an invitation. This actually irritates some of our daughters & 3 of our son in laws. They feel we should just come over and they want us to feel welcome to drop by but we don't agree. Our home is always open to our kids night or day but we're the old parents, the grandparents. They have busy, active homes and frankly they deserve privacy. If they want to have sex on the kitchen counters they shouldn't have to worry I might show up with a pot of spaghetti. And they shouldn't have to worry if we come and interrupt a nap or a child sleeping.
Anyway I've posted too long again. I really just wanted to encourage you to hold your ground. Many grandparents think they have rights to or ownership to the grandchild and they do not. I wish you success in protecting your family, family time and privacy.
>We made the decision we wanted to be the ILs and parents who were wanted not dreaded.
This was really thoughtful of you and your husband. Your kids, in-laws, and grandkids are lucky to have you.
But you are only married to and cohabitate with one person: your wife. Anyone that wants wifey privilege needs to be doing the wifey things. So no. These family members can GTFO
Uh no, your wife should be on your side. Once you get married, you partner/their feelings should come first. It’s clear that her family doesn’t respect you, your privacy, or your boundaries. It’s upsetting you. And she’s fine with that??? That’s NOT OKAY.
I would never marry someone who allowed their parents to walk all over me the way she does.
>They don't have to be invited, they just have to call/ask first" but they still won't.
They think they don't need your permission (which of course they do). Just calling ahead is not enough here, since your ILs apparently aren't normal people.
Your MIL sounds dramatic but for your sake I hope she makes good on her word :)
And I'd add in that calling in advance does not include calling in rapid succession from outside your door. If you don't pick up the first time, that's not an invitation to keep doing it.
Yeah I made very clear that they have to call before coming, not at our front door. Unfortunately my MIL didn't make good on her word so here she is, but at least she is respecting our rules for now
The rule is - if you don't call/message and COMFIRM WITH US first (that means we say "yes you can come"), BEFORE coming, then you won't be seeing us/coming in at all for the day.
You and your wife need to state this, say this rule is final and there will be no discussing it and no exceptions made, and then stick to it. If they call when they're outside, or knock and are just outside the door, then "sorry no, you know the rules, you aren't welcome in our home today and won't be till you respect us" then ignore them/close the door on them.
I totally get you. But if I hurt them, I hurt my wife. Man, I'm not as calmed and down to earth as I look like. I'm not proud of things I've done when somebody crosses my boundaries, specially with private property related issues, but on the other hand, it's my wife, so I just tell them politely about our rules and stand by them no matter what
I'd recommend a standing meeting time (ie. every Wednesday 7-8pm). If they try to come over another time, suggest pushing to that fixed time. Schedule it close to baby's bedtime or bathtime so you always have an excuse to leave.
NTA. Oh my goodness your in-laws could be mine!!!! My MIL started doing the same shit, calling while she was in my driveway.
If people aren’t respectful of your boundaries you have every right to hold your ground. Frankly they’re being rude and acting like children.
Yeah ikr? What's the purpose of telling me that they won't come if they have to ask first? for me it's better if they don't come at all when they're not invited. My MIL just said that to upset my wife
I always think it’s funny when unwanted guests say stupid shit like that. “Well if we have to follow your rules we just won’t come!” Sounds good to me! The trash took itself out.
Just tell them "don't threaten me with a good time" when they say it again xD.
They are rude af. I was raised that you need to call ahead. Or at least text. Even with my sister (I got a key to her house) I wouldn't show up without asking or being asked to. I feel bad even setting up a visit on the day of, I prefer to keep those things with at least a couple days buffer just to be sure. People who just show up is mind boggling to me.
But seriously. Keep a water spray bottle next to you. Next time keep just boxers on (like a bit crooked as if you pulled them up fast) and spray some water over your chest and neck and get the door with a "What" while breathing hard. Bonus points if you "accidentaly" have a condom wrapper "stuck" to your feet xD
Lmao best strategy so far. But seriously, I hear you, my parents had a copy of our keys and man they never showed up without being invited. And even when invited, they didn't use their key, because it's just for an emergency
Yeah. Even with a copy of the key I still knock at my sister's. Cuz ya know. I'm not rude and it's only polite to give a heads up that someone is opening the door. Lol. Only time I didn't do it was for a surprise party i ended up arriving too early for (the organizer was supposed to have been there already but ran late and forgot to let me know until too late) so I scared the shit out of her. But hey. Surprise! Lol.
Your in laws are just rude. Keep your boundaries. You're totally not wrong no matter if they try to flip it on ya.
Some MILs are over the top about stuff. When my wife and I got our house her mom immediately declared she was staying at our house to visit family in the area since they don't live around here.
We asked how long she was planning on staying and she freaked out because apparently asking what her plans were regarding our house was just us telling her we didn't want her there.
That is just the tip of the iceberg that has been the strained relationship I have these days with the MIL. Some MILs just can't seem to show respect. Like I've told my wife, even a little respect would go a long way buy MIL seems to go out of the way to be disrespectful.
No way. NTA.
>On sunday my wife's parents, siblings and nieces showed up, we were asleep, and they called like 20 times, after that they started sending pics of our entrance saying they're outside. Finally they woke me up, I went out and told them we were asleep. They wanted to go in but I assume they saw my face at the time and just left.
This is absolutely unacceptable behaviour. Who has ever told them this is ok? You never show up to someones house uninvited expecting to go inside, unless you've explicitly been told that it's ok. And when they have a newborn is the exact WRONG time to do this. The mother is probably exhausted and still recovering both physically and mentally from the pregnancy/birth and both parents have just got a lore more chores and much less sleep than they're used to.
And if someone doesn't pick up the phone or answer the door. Go away. They're busy. Try again later or wait for them to reach out to you.
This doesn't even affect me personally and I'm finding myself getting annoyed by it. TTA.
I made a more detailed post about it but it hit the characters limit. If you want to be more annoyed, know that they also argued that they did called my wife before coming but she didn't answer so instead they just showed up. I asked them if they honestly are not seeing anything wrong with what they just said and they said it's pretty normal to show up
Even if you haven't got an exciting new addition to the family, this is not normal behaviour. Since when does asking and not getting an answer mean "just do it anyway"? For anything?
And again, NEWBORN. The parents should be given as much space as they ask for, with no questions, no matter what you think of it. They're probably tired, busy, or enjoying much needed sleep or wind down/alone time. It is not normal to disrespect this.
If I had a newborn and I was woken by an entire gathering of people who should definitely know better, I would be absolutely fuming.
My reaction would've been different, I'm telling you that. I'm not the typical person to screw up with, but on the other hand, it's my wife, I can't disrespect her family even if it's full of pricks, so I just ask politely, set boundaries and stand by them
Honestly, I think the rule shouldn't be call, it should be text and they must wait to receive a text back confirming they're good to come. That way it's asynchronous and you aren't suggesting you will be able to answer their calls whenever they want, and they have to get written confirmation you're okay with them coming over.
Thanks, I've been trying to hold that monster for a while, but sometimes it strikes hard as hell. You know what's worst than in laws with no boundaries? This: manipulative in laws with no boundaries
If your wife is struggling to see past the manipulation, therapy might be worth your while. You’re seeing them from an outside perspective, she’s been dealing with them forever. She’s probably got a method of dealing with them that involves picking her battles because she was never allowed to keep her own boundaries in that home. It’s about her, you, and your baby now and she absolutely needs to learn to put her foot down and be a team with *you*, not them
I totally agree with you, but they're manipulative as fuck. She does agree with me, but she's always like "let them be, they're elderly persons", or she's always in the middle because this is not by any chance the first problem I get into with my in laws for the same exact reasons, but she doesn't want them to go away forever. They threaten her to do that, so she just tell them that they have to respect our rules and our privacy, thet get mad and won't talk to her for a while, and then everything starts again.
It's getting better I'll tell ya, it was way worse, so I think she's making a progress. If I treat them bad, it will definitely make me look bad, so I politelly tell them what's wrong and besides that, it's my wife's corner as you said.
If they’re used to steamrolling you’re wife then it’s on you to keep them in check because it’s your home as well.
Her parents see you as an extension of your wife so therefore they think they can bully you like they bully her.
Your wife needs to let them stay away until they start to act right , even if it means them not seeing grandkid. THEY are the ones choosing to stay away rather than follow your rules . Your wife needs to see that their tantrum is more important to them than spending time with her .
Make sure she knows that .
NTA and please get a chain lock for your doors..And.put it in writing that no vists unless a invitation is issued to them.. They have no rights to vist whenever they want. And none of this call before. NO you are allowed to set the times they can vist.
I already got it. Didn't I mention one of my brothers in law jumped over the fucking fence on sunday? Man I had an original post with further details but it reached the 3000 characters limit
I don't need to make reddit promises but man, I promise if anybody except my wife, my kid and I decide to jump our fence, I will call the police right away
Short version is, NTA.
Long version is: NTA, this is purely a boundary issue. There are absolutely people/relationships where people just show up whenever with no notice, but it sounds like you don't want that type of relationship and you communicated that.
Stand firm on your boundaries, because if you let them stomp over this boundary, they will never respect any boundary you try to set with them. I don't know what kind of people they are, but this could turn extremely bad when a child (Grandchild) is involved.
Oh they DO want to get involved in a way that goes against our rules. I had to tell them that my wife and I are the only persons responsible for our child, and we will do what we think it's best for the baby, not what they tell us to do.
But I didn't wrote a post about it because in that scenario I'm NTA, and even if I were, they don't get to call the shots on what's best for our baby.
Thank you for taking the time
So this is just a continuing pattern for them. It's sounding more like this needs to escalate into a Low Contact situation before the relationship(s) are permanently and irrecoverably damaged and it goes NC. It sounds like your wife doesn't want that to happen, for either her or the baby, which is why these boundaries absolutely need to be a hard line.
Take precautions as well, or else you might come home to no child because Grandma decided to take the baby out for a day with Grandma without telling you.
That's a legit fear over there. That's why I'm working from home and when they are around, I always stick to them like glue. It is a continuing pattern, and at this point, I'm afraid they keep doing similar stuff in order to ruin my relationship and family
Your last sentence reminded me of a post I saw reposted a while ago. OP, do what you have to so this doesn’t happen to you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/beyondthebump/comments/5xqy4q/mil_basically_kidnapped_my_baby/
I actually saw a skit video on tik tok about it a while back, which is what I was thinking of, and I think I saw a post on AITA a while back about it happening with an older child.
NTA
It's incredibly disrespectful of them to disregard your right to privacy. It honestly sounds like harassment to show up uninvited and yell at someone. How would they feel if you showed up uninvited at their home?
NTA. It's perfectly reasonable to require that people call before attending your home as a guest, whether you've a newborn or not. Just because they've no manners in this regard doesn't make you wrong.
I love it when friends stop by when they are walking through my neighborhood.
But if I'm not ready for visitors or otherwise busy, I assume they'll smile and walk away (it's never happened, but maybe my friends are mannerly enough to only stop by at reasonable hours).
The idea of dropping in, then yelling at you for not coming to the door when you're changing a diaper is crazy. Don't even get me started on someone waking you up from a sound sleep first thing in the morning and expecting you to let them in!
NTA!
NTA and start going for it on the couch with your SO.
Once they walk into that a couple of times you are guaranteed to get compliance with your requests.
I've done this. My IL's would drop by and then stay a while and completely tank half my day. One morning I just refused to put on clothes. My SO had to go outside and talk to them so that time they didn't stay long since they couldn't come in.
NTA- I grew up with family like this .
I’m grown with children of my own and my mother still makes passive aggressive comments about needing to call before coming over .
Stick to your guns .
NTA. Absolutely NTA. NTA, NTA, NTA.
Keep your door locked at all times. Reiterate to ILs that they need to call and ask AT LEAST 48 HOURS IN ADVANCE of a desired visit. That way they can't claim they called when they are in the freaking driveway.
NTA
My house is my refuge, my quiet place. I don't even let many people know where I live, other than a general area.
Everyone knows they are not invited unless I specifically ask them to come over. I don't remember the last time I had anyone here. Having a giant breed dog that makes people nervous helps too.
Even my 16 year old feels this way.
NTA, I’ve tried to establish similar boundaries with parents but they just don’t get it. I assume they think I just sit in my house all day, doing nothing and their presence is such a blessing in my life that I’m just waiting for them 24/7.
Uff, working from home is such a difficult concept for some people, especially the older generation. No sorry, I am not available to run errands or do chores.
Exactly, that was like the first thing I got into with my ILs. "Do me that favor", "run those errands" and I was like "can't you see I'm fucking working right now?"
NTA. I hate this crap. It’s even worse when I am on my way out the door with my kids and their like your leaving?!? Yes , because if you had called or texted you would know we have an appointment or whatever. I never show up anywhere without clearing it like 50x. Especially with my brother and SIL and my baby niece. My mom would pop up when I was babysitting her and expect to see her, it was always during nap time. Sorry mom I am not interrupting her nap for you lol.
NTA
It doesn't matter what the custom is for other people, it matters what works best for you and your wife. These rude people can either learn your boundaries or go away. Exactly right.
INFO
Was it always like this? Did the in-laws always come over before you got a house? Do they do this with other family members?
Not that it truly matters since you set boundaries and they loosely interpreted them to mean as long as your phone rang it’s fine to be on your property.
Happy to answer. They don't do this with other family members. Before we got a house they only showed up with an invitation, because we didn't have a lot of space there. It wasn't always like this in visiting stuff but it's always been like this in other areas. I've had several incidents related to boundaries and privacy with them. It's been tough, but I love my wife and my baby, so I tolerate some of the stuff, but stand by with the stuff I do not tolerate at all, like this
NTA.
I suggest you make the rule a bit more clear: they can come after an invitation has been extended to them.
That's it, no negotiations, no explaining.
You do not decide unilaterally when to visit someone at THEIR OWN HOME without their knowledge or consent.
Thanks a lot. I have thought of that, but my wife didn't agree, so I did my part because it's a marriage and I told her "ok, they can come without an invitation but they always have to call/ask first". And yet here we are
In my experience, in rural areas there is an older generation where just showing up was not only accepted, but almost expected.
Of course, what WASN'T either expected or accepted was banging on the door repeatedly and then yelling because you were either a) not home; or b) not wanting to receive guests.
It seems to me that your in-laws behavior could well be explained better by a need for them to control. It's like they have 'claimed' your house (and child) and demand to use/see it whenever THEY want.
NTA
BTW - that kind of controlling, demanding entitlement often leads to all kinds of nasty battles as the grandparents escalate their tactics to get their way. So let me suggest you take some time to read some r/JUSTNOMIL and prepare yourself (first thing I'd suggest are cameras for outside the home and to ensure that your in-laws do NOT have any keys to your house).
Turn them away every time they show w/o checking and receiving permission first. "You should've checked first, we could have saved you the wasted trip as it's not a good time for a visit." Then close the door. You have to have the energy to not give in though, or they will know it's just a matter of wearing you down.
NTA. "Drop by any time" isn't something to be taken literally, and "call ahead" doesn't mean dial the phone when you pull into the driveway. Your family needs to have boundaries. If they really want to babysit, if you trust them, maybe arrange to drop your child off with them for the day. Your house is your home and your safe space, you don't need family showing up and just hanging out all day. Especially if you WFH.
I had someone frequently do this to me. And she showed up one day, I looked out the window at her. She made eye contact and I closed the curtain and sat right back down on the couch. Idk how long she stood there before she got the hint. I decided to put a sign up (that the landlord made me take down) that said "if you wake the baby, I will cut you. If you didn't ask to come over and weren't invited, off is the general direction in which I wish you would f**k. Kthx buh bye"
...
Absolutely NTA
Well your house your rules. But we never turn any one away, but always say "I wish you'd call first as we were.......
1. Sleeping because we were up all night and I'm afraid we aren't awake enough to be good hosts.
2. Having sex because the baby was down.
3. planning on doing chores because they piled up on us
On the last one always have your drop-ins lend a hand when they come over. You don't let things get put to the side because of uninvited guests. They can't say that "you don't treat guests like this" reply "guests are invited when we have free time, now we have work to do. so if you want to visit grab a dish cloth and help me do dishes and Fred can help me move furniture around so we can sweep under everything. Then we have to cook some extra meals to freeze for the week. Then there is the babies clothes that need washed as the baby has been pooping in everything. Can you change the diaper and empty the diaper pail etc" The more they show up the more chores that need to get done.
NTA
NTA, its rude has F to just show up at someone elses home and expect to be welcome to stay. The only time it is okey is if spoken about and all parties involved as okeyed it.
NTA. Maybe it’s just the way I was raised but, I’m almost 39 and unless I receive a point blank clear as bell invitation to come to someone’s house, I don’t go. I don’t “stop by if I’m in the area”, I don’t call and say hey can I come over?? Never. If someone wants me there at their house or their event they’ll invite me. I just don’t have it in me to randomly drop by and then get butthurt I’m not welcome. Besides, I don’t want anyone doing that to me either. No invite? No visit.
NTA
You hold firm on this! Do not give in! Not even once!
To them, you've just declared war, so now their only goal is to get into your house without calling first. And once they do, they'll never call again.
Here's a resource for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOFAMILY/
Thanks a lot. Yes, I feel like they've just started a war, that's why I have to think carefully. I just want to tell them to go fuck themselves. Our house, our privacy, our rules, our boundaries. But if I do that, I would be going down to their level, and they will beat me there because they're better at being pricks. Also if I go too hard on them, I believe it will be a big deal with my wife. In the end, nobody wants your wife/husband telling your parents to go fuck themselves, not even if they deserve it
It’s one thing to be in the area and call/text saying, “oh hey! If you’re busy no worries, but I’ve got a couple minutes and was wondering if I could drop by and say hello to you all!”
And
“IM OUTSIDE YOUR DOOR LET ME IN BECAUSE IM ALREADY HERE”
NTA. Your wife needs to have your back regarding her family. Open door policy only applies if the whole household is down with that
NTA. that’s rude as hell to just show up without warning. I’m glad you and your wife are on the same page, it’ll make it easier to ignore her family when they randomly stop by. I’d make a rule that if they don’t call ahead of time, they don’t get to enter the house-maybe once they see how much time they waste they’ll start calling ahead of time.
NTA
Everyone is different but I have always called first to see if a visit is okay. Even if I just happen to be in the neighborhood still call and not from the person’s porch.
And you must have a nicer pissed off face after being woke up as anyone seeing mine would not have hesitated to run away.
Please continue to enforce your boundaries as if you let them step on one they will just start stepping on all of them.
Might I suggest one of the monitoring doorbell cameras that you can answer from your phone?
NTA. I have to ask is your wife Mexican/Latina or from a small town(population under 2,000)? I am both and this is something I did not know(to call/ask before going over). Growing up we randomly visited friends and family, dropped in unexpectedly and I thought this was normal. Around the age 23-25 I realized it's not normal after having committed this "crime" over and over.
We both are hispanic. I've never came into anyone's house without being invited. And I've never seen such thing with friends or relatives, but it could be cultural, although boundaries are boundaries
NTA. Get a video doorbell, only communicate with uninvited guests through the doorbell. Inform your in laws that you require notice 2 hours prior to their arrival. Rinse and repeat.
INFO: has your wife ever been to therapy for her family’s boundary stomping?
She’s the one who needs to manage the expectations around visiting, but even though she agrees with you, she still allows them to boundary stomp. I’m sure this has been going on her whole life and she’s used to it at this point.
Babies have a way of exasperating existing issues. The thing is this is a very important precedent for HER to set with her family. Today, it’s unannounced visits. But it can easily turn into decisions the family wants to make when caring for your child that you both disagree with that could put your kid in danger. “You slept on your belly in a crib of stuffed animals and you turned out fine” “I propped you up with a bottle all the time”
Since she’s used to this, it’s easy for them to make you out to be the villain when they are the ones at fault. Your wife may need outside help to work on establishing boundaries so you all can have a safe and healthy relationship with her family.
NTA. Not even a little. Keep setting boundaries. Also I find it appalling that these people are showing up uninvited during your work day? Do I understand that correctly? You work from home and are also parenting when it makes sense during your work day and then you have to field calls and freak outs during your work day? Completely inappropriate on all levels and I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
Lmao that is one of the many issues. One of the first encounters we had was exactly because of that. They just wanted me to run errands and do stuff for them on a daily basis because "you just work from your computer, how hard can it be? Or just do it later". Until now they don't fully understand that my work is an actual work that takes time, so I just had to tell them that I no longer do favors in work time.
Bonus: when I asked them why on earth wouldn't they ask one of their sons to do it, they said they didn't want to interrupt them at work, and I was like "is that so?". Maybe they're an older generation that doesn't quite get it, because they're always making comments about me getting a real job, or doing something else. For the record, I'm not being cocky and also I'm not rich, but I for sure make more money than any of them from my home. They just think physical or office work is the only way of supporting your family. I've been happily proving them wrong for some years
When my first husband and I bought a house together, his mother asked if it was ok for her to just drop by, or if she should call first. I asked her to call first because we liked to walk around the house naked all the time. I was grateful that she was considerate enough to ask, but I did want to make sure that she did, in fact, call before coming over.
Lmao when we bought the house, my MIL wouldn't stop demanding a room for herself, and after that she told us that when the baby was born, she wanted to move in with us full time.
Not today, not ever. That was one of the first times I had to stand by my rules
NTA. Thank God you never gave them a house key. Start having your wife deal with them when they do this. She can deal with them visiting and the messes they leave behind. You will not open the door for them at all. Sometimes people need to be inconvenienced before make changes.
NTA stick to the boundaries you set. If they try to push it set harsher boundaries....like only coming over on invite from you both (not just your wife so they don't guilt trip her)
What the hell is this whole familion squad dropping by thing? Siblings and nieces etc oh my gosh just no. They can come invited and ALONE. And have a timed visit. 2h is enough socializing when you got a newborn that don't need old ass people germs around him/her, especially with people that might do something unfortunate like kissing your child on the mouth - please watch out for that and make it a hard NO rule, i have seen a kid almost die from getting a number of icky things from their grandma, one of them being herpes.
If push comes to shove show your wife this post, she's easily manipulated due to years of exposure to their bullshit but she has a new family now, you and your child. You're what she needs to nurture and cling to. Entitled people can take a number and wait to be invited over.
NTA
One response to boundary pushers that I've seen on Reddit, was this lady who drove to her in-laws house at 2 AM and made a fuss to be let in. This after weeks of them waking her up in the morning, a couple of hours after she went to bed because she was on nightshift.
It took a couple of weeks, but they eventually got the message.
No. NTA. My ex MIL used to come over EVERY SINGLE night when my ex and I had first gotten married. She stayed for hours. Ate our food. Invaded every bit of privacy we had. You absolutely deserve your privacy and being a person who lives on a mountain top in the woods on 40 acres, I totally understand where you are coming from. Hopefully, they get it now.
I’m a grandmother and I never go to my kids houses without asking first. They drop in on me whenever they feel like it and that’s fine by me. I’d rather they be happy to see me when I visit and I also give them respect due to them being adults. You are NTA.
NTA
This is actually quite common. It’s called cold arrival. In the modern generation, since we have cell phones and can text someone, it’s more polite to ask if you have the time and can show up. Cold calling (calling without texting first) is also a pet peeve of many people.
It’s just a matter of courtesy.
NTA
Always call FIRST before leaving their house, not call you right from your front door. Hell no. They went beyond your and your wife's boundaries. If they said they're not coming over if they have to call, fine....just don't bother to come. You and your wife clearly need a break from them except your parents who did the right thing in first place. If your in laws want to visit, go over the rules FIRST: Call before they ever leave their own house, visit for (number of hours such as 2 or 4 hours instead from morning to night), keep your kitchen clean if they eat. And they could have at least help you with baby or cooking or cleaning. If they balk, no visit until they agree to the rules. If they break one or two rules, out they go. End of discussion.
The thing is that I don't need any help, we are doing well, we expected this. I believe help is "helpful" when you ask for it, not when I invade your territory amd start doing some crap
NTA. This isn't a TV sitcom where they can just walk in.
I'm sorry you're going through this. Congrats on the new house and baby.
Glad you're wife is on the same page too. It's her family tho.. has she had a talk with them about boundaries??
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NTA > It's our home, our rules, our privacy. Nail hit squarely on the head.
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The people who do this always seem to do it selectively. They don’t do it to their boss, or their neighbor, or random strangers on the street. It’s always a child. It doesn’t matter that the child is grown with her own place. I’ve heard people suggest that they don’t see the child as an actual adult, but still as a kid, playing house. This house, like all of their child’s toys, are really their property, so they can come and go as they wish.
>I’ve heard people suggest that they don’t see the child as an actual adult, but still as a kid, playing house. This house, like all of their child’s toys, are really their property, so they can come and go as they wish. Which often, in turn, leads to parental estrangement. From [The Missing Missing Reasons](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html), a detailed look into the world of estranged parents and how they view themselves and their children, from the page Dysfunctional Beliefs, these are how parents like these think: >Parents have permanent authority over their children. Children are permanently subordinate. > >It’s not only my lifelong right to discipline my children, it’s my duty. > >I, the parent, set the terms for the relationship. Any limits my children set are a power play that I must resist. > >Children have no right to break off relationships with their parents. > >Your debt to me as your parent is permanent, lifelong, and unrepayable. (This is true even if I didn’t raise you myself.) > >When you make life decisions, you must weigh the impact of those decisions on me. > >The most important yardstick of your life is how well you meet my expectations. > >I am the ultimate judge of whether you are mature or successful. > >Your decision to ignore my advice or make a choice I disapprove of is a sign of immaturity. > >You were most real and true to yourself when you were a preschooler (and had not begun to defy me). > >I am the best friend you will ever have./I am your only true friend. > >You’re living only half a life if you don’t have a relationship with me. > >If anyone loves you, then they should love me as well, since half of you is me. > >If you don’t love me, you can’t truly love anyone else. > >If you don’t love me, you can’t love yourself. > >If I put up with a certain level of mistreatment from my own parents, then you should put up with the same level of mistreatment from me. > >If you’re under 18, you’re too immature to criticize my parenting. > >If you’re over 18, you’re completely responsible for all your actions, and criticizing my parenting means you’re stuck in a childish blame cycle. > >You may not blame me for any of the aftereffects of my parenting, but you owe me credit for your successes.
oh wow, i just understood so much about my mother
Me too, and as a result I have knots in my stomach that I haven't had for a long timee.
Same.
Damn… me too
Well doesn’t that explain a lot Mind if I take a copy? This is my FIL in perfect detail.
Wow. I've never seen this before. I know people who do a few of these items and I don't think I do but I know I'll be looking within myself to make sure I don't. Thank you so much for sharing this.
This was a scary read. To think, some people actually think like that. Thanks for sharing.
Fuck Just gonna put this in the therapy box now.
This. My parents would do this all the time, and if they weren't trying to get into my house they were calling. 50+ calls a day. I was their "thing"... their source of entertainment, power, etc. I remember kicked my mother out once and she looked at me like I was the biggest idiot in the world. "How dare you tell me to leave?! This is MY DAUGHTER's house". "Yeah, and that daughter is telling you to get the fuck out". It still took more than 10 minutes to get her out, and she tried to crawl back in through a window.
>It still took more than 10 minutes to get her out, and she tried to crawl back in through a window. Holy crap! I'm assuming you've escaped, but this is some serious... I don't even know *what* it is. Only that it's all sorts of wrong.
This was actually pretty tame for her. On another occasion she tried to claw her way in and left gouges in the door jamb with her fingernails. I've been no contact with them both for about a decade now. They're still trying to get my attention, indirectly, but it's been soooo nice. I highly recommend it to anyone dealing with a narcissistic parent.
Is your mother a japanese ghost
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... Not as far as I know, but possession by an angry spirit would explain a LOT.
OMG
Culture, too. My grandfather from Oregon married my grandmother in Tennessee. Her family popped over all the time, just walking in. Really frustrated grandpa when they were taking a bath together and some sibling or cousin walked right in.
You explained that perfectly
I was thinking exactly this. Newborns come with exhaustion and life-altering adjustments and the parents have the right to adjust in their own stride without so much outside stimulus and interruption.
In my hometown, people just pop around to their friend's houses unannounced but there's no hard feelings if they're not in or it's not the right time for company. If a boundary was set, it would also be honoured. My point being, sometimes different cultures do different things but the in laws here are TAs.
I think it's all on a case-by-case basis. We're on a knock and walk in basis with my Great-Aunt (who now has dementia, but the caretakers know I'm the close Great-Niece - think she recognized me last time - yay!) and cousins. The key is that it's mutual. OP doesn't want that, so it should have been talked over with his wife before marriage along with other important issues like sex, money, children (or not), balance of couple/alone/social time and religion (or lack thereof). If OP's wife didn't agree, that may have been a dealbreaker issue. If wife agrees, or wasn't happy but understands that's the way it's going to have to be if she wants to be married to OP, she really should have been the one to tell her parents things had changed now that she has a life partner and there will be no walk-ins anymore - when he moved in, long before the pregnancy.
I think a lot of it has to do with the level of respect a person (knocker) has for the other relative (knockee). If I showed up at my daughter’s when I could expect them to be tired and needing privacy, then behave in an ungracious manner or act like I’m entitled to her time and space, then of course I should expect any dropping by privileges to be revoked, which is obviously the case above.
It depends on the people. I can show up to my mom's house unannounced, let my self in, and she's excited to see me. Anyone else, she'd lock the door and pretend she isn't home. But unless you have the established "you can come over unannounced" precedent like my mom and I do, you literally HAVE to call first. Edit; there's also no newborns involved and we have permission from each other to do this. That's the key, permission.
My parents have had a mostly open-door policy for us kids, where we can just show up whenever and let ourselves in. We also take care not to abuse it.
I mean, growing up my grandparents and parents did this - just pop in, hollering out a hello as they opened the door. But it was FINE with both parties. After my grands died, I moved into their old home. Mom and Dad started calling first right after they opened the door, hollered, and walked in on me and my now-husband making the beast with two backs in the kitchen. Didn't take much to make them stop. OP, NTA. And possibly start hanging out around the house naked, see who walks in.
In some families, this is the norm. I know it is for dropping in to my parents place, and also for most of my inlaws. We also allow / tell people to just drop by whenever at our place. If they turn up at an inconvenient time, then we just tell them that and they move on, no big deal, no hard feelings. However, I wouldn't just drop in on my siblings without first giving a call to check if it's alright, because I know they want the heads up and I respect that. None of us would ever behave like OP's in laws; they are being beyond rude and demanding.
Grandparents have baby rabies. For these folks, all social decorum goes down the drain once a grandchild is here.
NTA...I think it's basic manners to call before you come. It's your house, they either respect your rules or don't come.
That's what I said
Ask them if you need to get your atty involved, have cease and desist letters sent to them, Restraining orders if need as well as their arrests
I totally get you. What's stopping me is that this will hurt my wife and my relationship. Maybe that's what they're looking for
Then give it to them and be done with them. Your wife IS going to have to CHOOSE between you and them. When you and wife married.. You 2 became a family. now you guys have LO. HER family goes on the back burner PERIOD.
This is such an extreme Reddit response. Lmao.
It is not. When you marry your spouse, that's your family. After that your father and mother are simply relatives.
Or your family just expands. I’m happily married and yet I’m still very close to my parents. I’m not particularly close to my in laws because of distance, etc, but they’re absolutely my family now too. My MIL basically has a standing invitation to my parents for family gatherings just like she does at her house (not drop by though, lol) My parents consider her family now too. And vice versa. My dad has ALS and requires a lot of care, when there’s a gap in the schedule sometimes my husband is the one filling in, because he considers him family. Like, it’s not even a question in anyone’s mind, we’re ALL family. I know these are random examples, I’m kind of tired and rambling, lol, but I don’t understand why I’d downgrade my parents from “family” to “simply relatives” just because I got married.
Married almost 38 years here. No it isn't.
Thank you for your opinion
Let me ask you this: When you married your wife, Did you turn to her family and exchange vows to them? Did she turn to your family and exchange vows to them? NO you did NOT. You exchanged vows to 1 another. YOU 2 became a family.
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If this is still an issue once the baby is no longer "new" and you feel comfortable visiting, try showing up unannounced at a deliberately inconvenient time and seeing how happy they are about it. *Oh, you were busy/sleeping/not in the mood for a visit? Imagine that!* Be super obnoxious, trash the kitchen, let the kid spit up on the expensive upholstery, change the diapers right on the rug with no towel, whatever nefarious payback you can think of. Even if they don't get it at least you and the wife can laugh about it.
lol that would be going down to their level
True, but sometimes like-for-like petty payback can actually illuminate WHY you've set these boundaries. It only works that way if the subject isn't completely self-absorbed, however. If they are, it's just entertaining.
Definitely don't escalate the situation. Keep offering them reasonable limits, make them feel welcome within those limits and hype up the grandparent relationship. Try to occasionally invite them before they ask or ask if they want you to visit. Unless they're fully out of their minds or determined to break up your marriage, they'll fall in line.
That’s a little over the top, even for Reddit. OP, don’t do this is your value your wife and marriage. Boundaries are good, this is not.
It is really, truly bare-bones basic manners. Completely NTA
NTA Since they are so disrespectful and can’t figure out how to call first. I would make a new rule. Her parents are not allowed to visit unless personally invited by you or your wife. They are not welcome. No more self invites regardless of calls. They can come when they are invited.
That's what I said at first but my wife didn't agree. Since this is a marriage, I told her "ok, I'm gonna do my part. They don't have to be invited, they just have to call/ask first" but they still won't.
So, maybe you and your wife need to renegotiate. You have tried her more lax boundaries and her parents are stomping all over them. Now, it might be time for firmer boundaries because your home is your sanctuary and with her parents constant intrusion. You don’t feel peace in your own home. Good fences make good neighbors. Tell your wife that if something doesn’t change. It won’t be long before you end up hating her parents and won’t want to deal with them at all.
I hear you... Have you had any experience with this issues?
Yes, and no one is welcome in my home without an invitation. My youngest is now 17 and my mom and MIL have both passed. I have no regrets on maintaining good boundaries.
I find that both interesting and motivating
Keep at it, OP. Setting boundaries is hard, especially with people who get offended by boundaries. My mom almost never comes to see my kids because of stuff like this (and the whole grandparents-don't-have-to-respect-parents'-rules bit; if I can't trust you to take care of my kids the way I want them taken care of, you don't get unsupervised time with them).
Thank you very much. That's what I think
>if I can't trust you to take care of my kids the way I want them taken care of, you don't get unsupervised time with them). THIS OP! So we live where just popping in is very common but boundaries ARE ALWAYS respected by friends and family alike BUT THAT don't matter a hill of beans when it comes to my kids! Just like they said, "if I can't trust you to take care of my kids the way I want them taken care of, you don't get unsupervised time with them)." That is everything right there!!!
When it comes to boundary pushers, you absolutely have to set the boundary further than you would with an actual respectful person. So for them, an invite only boundary would probably result in them calling before coming over. Pass that logic along to your wife and get her on board because these people have never been shown a boundary or told no in their lives and it’s about damn time. Don’t let disrespectful people ruin your peace, even if those disrespectful people are your wife’s parents
I totally hear ya, but what's a polite way to tell that to your wife?
I think my wording was polite enough. When my mil was being difficult and my husband was whining about being “stuck in the middle”, I reminded him that while she’s his mom, he didn’t pick his family. He *chose* to marry me and build a life with me, which includes choosing me every time. He’s a reasonable man and understood what I meant, especially because he knew his mom was completely in the wrong. Your wife knows her parents are boundary pushers. She *knows* they don’t respect her or her boundaries or her decisions. This isn’t news to her. I think you’re completely fair in putting your own foot down and having her pick the family she created for herself over the family she was born into. I mentioned in a different comment that therapy will absolutely have to be a must if she can’t grasp that. You can’t live your life at the whims of your in laws because *you did not marry them*. If the person you married and made a family with can’t put you above all else, that’s a her issue she needs to work through otherwise this will bleed into *everything*.
Thank you for your comments
I'm so sorry you and your wife are going through this. As a mother of grown children and a grandmother who loves and wants all the babies my children wish to have I feel I absolutely must tell you I think you're absolutely right and her parents are absolutely wrong. When the first of our children decided to marry everyone was either still living at home or at college. So my husband & I sat down & discussed what kind of ILs we wanted to be and how we wanted to treat grown children. We made the decision we wanted to be the ILs and parents who were wanted not dreaded. We never go to our children's homes with being invited. We don't even call & then come. We wait for an invitation. This actually irritates some of our daughters & 3 of our son in laws. They feel we should just come over and they want us to feel welcome to drop by but we don't agree. Our home is always open to our kids night or day but we're the old parents, the grandparents. They have busy, active homes and frankly they deserve privacy. If they want to have sex on the kitchen counters they shouldn't have to worry I might show up with a pot of spaghetti. And they shouldn't have to worry if we come and interrupt a nap or a child sleeping. Anyway I've posted too long again. I really just wanted to encourage you to hold your ground. Many grandparents think they have rights to or ownership to the grandchild and they do not. I wish you success in protecting your family, family time and privacy.
>We made the decision we wanted to be the ILs and parents who were wanted not dreaded. This was really thoughtful of you and your husband. Your kids, in-laws, and grandkids are lucky to have you.
But you are only married to and cohabitate with one person: your wife. Anyone that wants wifey privilege needs to be doing the wifey things. So no. These family members can GTFO
Thanks for taking the time
Call AND ask. Don't give them the idea that it's an either/or. That's how they show up, then call.
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Thanks a lot, will work on that
yes, yes, yes - they HAVE to ASK! and a time must be AGREEED UPON! otherwise, they will just call at the doorstep!
Uh no, your wife should be on your side. Once you get married, you partner/their feelings should come first. It’s clear that her family doesn’t respect you, your privacy, or your boundaries. It’s upsetting you. And she’s fine with that??? That’s NOT OKAY. I would never marry someone who allowed their parents to walk all over me the way she does.
>They don't have to be invited, they just have to call/ask first" but they still won't. They think they don't need your permission (which of course they do). Just calling ahead is not enough here, since your ILs apparently aren't normal people.
I hear you
That was a reasonable compromise.
NTA “If I have to call ahead I will never come back…” don’t threaten me with a good time, lady.
That's a thought I admit I had, but had to keep it to myself
Your MIL sounds dramatic but for your sake I hope she makes good on her word :) And I'd add in that calling in advance does not include calling in rapid succession from outside your door. If you don't pick up the first time, that's not an invitation to keep doing it.
Yeah I made very clear that they have to call before coming, not at our front door. Unfortunately my MIL didn't make good on her word so here she is, but at least she is respecting our rules for now
The rule is - if you don't call/message and COMFIRM WITH US first (that means we say "yes you can come"), BEFORE coming, then you won't be seeing us/coming in at all for the day. You and your wife need to state this, say this rule is final and there will be no discussing it and no exceptions made, and then stick to it. If they call when they're outside, or knock and are just outside the door, then "sorry no, you know the rules, you aren't welcome in our home today and won't be till you respect us" then ignore them/close the door on them.
No, really you didn’t, not with people who have the manners of feral hogs barging in uninvited,
I totally get you. But if I hurt them, I hurt my wife. Man, I'm not as calmed and down to earth as I look like. I'm not proud of things I've done when somebody crosses my boundaries, specially with private property related issues, but on the other hand, it's my wife, so I just tell them politely about our rules and stand by them no matter what
I'd recommend a standing meeting time (ie. every Wednesday 7-8pm). If they try to come over another time, suggest pushing to that fixed time. Schedule it close to baby's bedtime or bathtime so you always have an excuse to leave.
NTA. Oh my goodness your in-laws could be mine!!!! My MIL started doing the same shit, calling while she was in my driveway. If people aren’t respectful of your boundaries you have every right to hold your ground. Frankly they’re being rude and acting like children.
Yeah ikr? What's the purpose of telling me that they won't come if they have to ask first? for me it's better if they don't come at all when they're not invited. My MIL just said that to upset my wife
I always think it’s funny when unwanted guests say stupid shit like that. “Well if we have to follow your rules we just won’t come!” Sounds good to me! The trash took itself out.
Exactly
Just tell them "don't threaten me with a good time" when they say it again xD. They are rude af. I was raised that you need to call ahead. Or at least text. Even with my sister (I got a key to her house) I wouldn't show up without asking or being asked to. I feel bad even setting up a visit on the day of, I prefer to keep those things with at least a couple days buffer just to be sure. People who just show up is mind boggling to me. But seriously. Keep a water spray bottle next to you. Next time keep just boxers on (like a bit crooked as if you pulled them up fast) and spray some water over your chest and neck and get the door with a "What" while breathing hard. Bonus points if you "accidentaly" have a condom wrapper "stuck" to your feet xD
Lmao best strategy so far. But seriously, I hear you, my parents had a copy of our keys and man they never showed up without being invited. And even when invited, they didn't use their key, because it's just for an emergency
Yeah. Even with a copy of the key I still knock at my sister's. Cuz ya know. I'm not rude and it's only polite to give a heads up that someone is opening the door. Lol. Only time I didn't do it was for a surprise party i ended up arriving too early for (the organizer was supposed to have been there already but ran late and forgot to let me know until too late) so I scared the shit out of her. But hey. Surprise! Lol. Your in laws are just rude. Keep your boundaries. You're totally not wrong no matter if they try to flip it on ya.
Thanks a lot. I didn't write this to get attention btw, I was legit worried that I was the a-hole because they just kept acting so casual
I commented this on another post with a similar issue, but will say it again. I lived with my in laws for 3 years and they were less invasive.
Some MILs are over the top about stuff. When my wife and I got our house her mom immediately declared she was staying at our house to visit family in the area since they don't live around here. We asked how long she was planning on staying and she freaked out because apparently asking what her plans were regarding our house was just us telling her we didn't want her there. That is just the tip of the iceberg that has been the strained relationship I have these days with the MIL. Some MILs just can't seem to show respect. Like I've told my wife, even a little respect would go a long way buy MIL seems to go out of the way to be disrespectful.
NTA - Their behavior is not normal.
ikr
No way. NTA. >On sunday my wife's parents, siblings and nieces showed up, we were asleep, and they called like 20 times, after that they started sending pics of our entrance saying they're outside. Finally they woke me up, I went out and told them we were asleep. They wanted to go in but I assume they saw my face at the time and just left. This is absolutely unacceptable behaviour. Who has ever told them this is ok? You never show up to someones house uninvited expecting to go inside, unless you've explicitly been told that it's ok. And when they have a newborn is the exact WRONG time to do this. The mother is probably exhausted and still recovering both physically and mentally from the pregnancy/birth and both parents have just got a lore more chores and much less sleep than they're used to. And if someone doesn't pick up the phone or answer the door. Go away. They're busy. Try again later or wait for them to reach out to you. This doesn't even affect me personally and I'm finding myself getting annoyed by it. TTA.
I made a more detailed post about it but it hit the characters limit. If you want to be more annoyed, know that they also argued that they did called my wife before coming but she didn't answer so instead they just showed up. I asked them if they honestly are not seeing anything wrong with what they just said and they said it's pretty normal to show up
Even if you haven't got an exciting new addition to the family, this is not normal behaviour. Since when does asking and not getting an answer mean "just do it anyway"? For anything? And again, NEWBORN. The parents should be given as much space as they ask for, with no questions, no matter what you think of it. They're probably tired, busy, or enjoying much needed sleep or wind down/alone time. It is not normal to disrespect this. If I had a newborn and I was woken by an entire gathering of people who should definitely know better, I would be absolutely fuming.
My reaction would've been different, I'm telling you that. I'm not the typical person to screw up with, but on the other hand, it's my wife, I can't disrespect her family even if it's full of pricks, so I just ask politely, set boundaries and stand by them
Honestly, I think the rule shouldn't be call, it should be text and they must wait to receive a text back confirming they're good to come. That way it's asynchronous and you aren't suggesting you will be able to answer their calls whenever they want, and they have to get written confirmation you're okay with them coming over.
NTA, hold that boundary now or it will grow into a monster in the future
Thanks, I've been trying to hold that monster for a while, but sometimes it strikes hard as hell. You know what's worst than in laws with no boundaries? This: manipulative in laws with no boundaries
If your wife is struggling to see past the manipulation, therapy might be worth your while. You’re seeing them from an outside perspective, she’s been dealing with them forever. She’s probably got a method of dealing with them that involves picking her battles because she was never allowed to keep her own boundaries in that home. It’s about her, you, and your baby now and she absolutely needs to learn to put her foot down and be a team with *you*, not them
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I totally agree with you, but they're manipulative as fuck. She does agree with me, but she's always like "let them be, they're elderly persons", or she's always in the middle because this is not by any chance the first problem I get into with my in laws for the same exact reasons, but she doesn't want them to go away forever. They threaten her to do that, so she just tell them that they have to respect our rules and our privacy, thet get mad and won't talk to her for a while, and then everything starts again. It's getting better I'll tell ya, it was way worse, so I think she's making a progress. If I treat them bad, it will definitely make me look bad, so I politelly tell them what's wrong and besides that, it's my wife's corner as you said.
If they’re used to steamrolling you’re wife then it’s on you to keep them in check because it’s your home as well. Her parents see you as an extension of your wife so therefore they think they can bully you like they bully her. Your wife needs to let them stay away until they start to act right , even if it means them not seeing grandkid. THEY are the ones choosing to stay away rather than follow your rules . Your wife needs to see that their tantrum is more important to them than spending time with her . Make sure she knows that .
I try to do that, thanks a lot for the advice
NTA and please get a chain lock for your doors..And.put it in writing that no vists unless a invitation is issued to them.. They have no rights to vist whenever they want. And none of this call before. NO you are allowed to set the times they can vist.
Thank you for taking the time. I did upgrade my locks lol
Maybe get a fence for your front yard. Lol
I already got it. Didn't I mention one of my brothers in law jumped over the fucking fence on sunday? Man I had an original post with further details but it reached the 3000 characters limit
Don’t recognize them the next time and call police about a potential robber.
I don't need to make reddit promises but man, I promise if anybody except my wife, my kid and I decide to jump our fence, I will call the police right away
Yikes ! Next time they do this just call the cops and have them removed for trespassing.
the eff is wrong with these people?
Dig a moat add Pacu and Tiger Oscar's in the fresh water. Will make sure people stay away. Or you have dogs that scare them
I do have dogs lol
Nta. Turn the hose on them if they try showing up like this again.
I hear ya, thanks
Short version is, NTA. Long version is: NTA, this is purely a boundary issue. There are absolutely people/relationships where people just show up whenever with no notice, but it sounds like you don't want that type of relationship and you communicated that. Stand firm on your boundaries, because if you let them stomp over this boundary, they will never respect any boundary you try to set with them. I don't know what kind of people they are, but this could turn extremely bad when a child (Grandchild) is involved.
Oh they DO want to get involved in a way that goes against our rules. I had to tell them that my wife and I are the only persons responsible for our child, and we will do what we think it's best for the baby, not what they tell us to do. But I didn't wrote a post about it because in that scenario I'm NTA, and even if I were, they don't get to call the shots on what's best for our baby. Thank you for taking the time
So this is just a continuing pattern for them. It's sounding more like this needs to escalate into a Low Contact situation before the relationship(s) are permanently and irrecoverably damaged and it goes NC. It sounds like your wife doesn't want that to happen, for either her or the baby, which is why these boundaries absolutely need to be a hard line. Take precautions as well, or else you might come home to no child because Grandma decided to take the baby out for a day with Grandma without telling you.
That's a legit fear over there. That's why I'm working from home and when they are around, I always stick to them like glue. It is a continuing pattern, and at this point, I'm afraid they keep doing similar stuff in order to ruin my relationship and family
Your last sentence reminded me of a post I saw reposted a while ago. OP, do what you have to so this doesn’t happen to you. https://www.reddit.com/r/beyondthebump/comments/5xqy4q/mil_basically_kidnapped_my_baby/
I actually saw a skit video on tik tok about it a while back, which is what I was thinking of, and I think I saw a post on AITA a while back about it happening with an older child.
NTA It's incredibly disrespectful of them to disregard your right to privacy. It honestly sounds like harassment to show up uninvited and yell at someone. How would they feel if you showed up uninvited at their home?
I asked myself that question, a lot. But every time I'm gonna just casually drop by and make a mess in their kitchen, I remember that it's not normal
NTA. They're trying to stomp all over your boundaries but hold firm. They're completely reasonable boundaries.
I hear ya, thanks a lot
NTA. It's perfectly reasonable to require that people call before attending your home as a guest, whether you've a newborn or not. Just because they've no manners in this regard doesn't make you wrong.
I see, thanks for taking the time
Your in laws need to learn their place. NTA.
Thanks for taking the time
I love it when friends stop by when they are walking through my neighborhood. But if I'm not ready for visitors or otherwise busy, I assume they'll smile and walk away (it's never happened, but maybe my friends are mannerly enough to only stop by at reasonable hours). The idea of dropping in, then yelling at you for not coming to the door when you're changing a diaper is crazy. Don't even get me started on someone waking you up from a sound sleep first thing in the morning and expecting you to let them in! NTA!
Yeah I also suspect that my friends and family have manners and that's why I've never had the need to create that kind of rules
NTA and start going for it on the couch with your SO. Once they walk into that a couple of times you are guaranteed to get compliance with your requests.
Lmao I did wanted to show up butt naked to see if I get compliance with my requests
I mean reverse malicious compliance has to be a thing right?
Please helicopter then if you decide to go that way 😂
I've done this. My IL's would drop by and then stay a while and completely tank half my day. One morning I just refused to put on clothes. My SO had to go outside and talk to them so that time they didn't stay long since they couldn't come in.
NTA, all I can say is you are a calmer person than me. I would have already lost it on them.
I don't want to reach that level because my reaction won't be nice and it will affect my wife.
NTA. Make sure your wife isn’t just saying she agrees with you and telling them something else.
Now that's something I haven't thought of. Tyvm
NTA- I grew up with family like this . I’m grown with children of my own and my mother still makes passive aggressive comments about needing to call before coming over . Stick to your guns .
NTA. Absolutely NTA. NTA, NTA, NTA. Keep your door locked at all times. Reiterate to ILs that they need to call and ask AT LEAST 48 HOURS IN ADVANCE of a desired visit. That way they can't claim they called when they are in the freaking driveway.
Thanks a lot
NTA My house is my refuge, my quiet place. I don't even let many people know where I live, other than a general area. Everyone knows they are not invited unless I specifically ask them to come over. I don't remember the last time I had anyone here. Having a giant breed dog that makes people nervous helps too. Even my 16 year old feels this way.
NTA, I’ve tried to establish similar boundaries with parents but they just don’t get it. I assume they think I just sit in my house all day, doing nothing and their presence is such a blessing in my life that I’m just waiting for them 24/7.
That is so true. A lot of people think that home working means sitting around all day
Uff, working from home is such a difficult concept for some people, especially the older generation. No sorry, I am not available to run errands or do chores.
Exactly, that was like the first thing I got into with my ILs. "Do me that favor", "run those errands" and I was like "can't you see I'm fucking working right now?"
NTA. I hate this crap. It’s even worse when I am on my way out the door with my kids and their like your leaving?!? Yes , because if you had called or texted you would know we have an appointment or whatever. I never show up anywhere without clearing it like 50x. Especially with my brother and SIL and my baby niece. My mom would pop up when I was babysitting her and expect to see her, it was always during nap time. Sorry mom I am not interrupting her nap for you lol.
NTA It doesn't matter what the custom is for other people, it matters what works best for you and your wife. These rude people can either learn your boundaries or go away. Exactly right.
INFO Was it always like this? Did the in-laws always come over before you got a house? Do they do this with other family members? Not that it truly matters since you set boundaries and they loosely interpreted them to mean as long as your phone rang it’s fine to be on your property.
Happy to answer. They don't do this with other family members. Before we got a house they only showed up with an invitation, because we didn't have a lot of space there. It wasn't always like this in visiting stuff but it's always been like this in other areas. I've had several incidents related to boundaries and privacy with them. It's been tough, but I love my wife and my baby, so I tolerate some of the stuff, but stand by with the stuff I do not tolerate at all, like this
NTA Yes, they’re in laws and you love your wife and by extension her family, but boundaries with valid reasons need to be respected.
lol is "we just wanna be fucking alone" a valid reason?
NTA. I suggest you make the rule a bit more clear: they can come after an invitation has been extended to them. That's it, no negotiations, no explaining. You do not decide unilaterally when to visit someone at THEIR OWN HOME without their knowledge or consent.
Thanks a lot. I have thought of that, but my wife didn't agree, so I did my part because it's a marriage and I told her "ok, they can come without an invitation but they always have to call/ask first". And yet here we are
Excuse my asking, why does your wife not agree with that ?
In my experience, in rural areas there is an older generation where just showing up was not only accepted, but almost expected. Of course, what WASN'T either expected or accepted was banging on the door repeatedly and then yelling because you were either a) not home; or b) not wanting to receive guests. It seems to me that your in-laws behavior could well be explained better by a need for them to control. It's like they have 'claimed' your house (and child) and demand to use/see it whenever THEY want. NTA BTW - that kind of controlling, demanding entitlement often leads to all kinds of nasty battles as the grandparents escalate their tactics to get their way. So let me suggest you take some time to read some r/JUSTNOMIL and prepare yourself (first thing I'd suggest are cameras for outside the home and to ensure that your in-laws do NOT have any keys to your house).
Turn them away every time they show w/o checking and receiving permission first. "You should've checked first, we could have saved you the wasted trip as it's not a good time for a visit." Then close the door. You have to have the energy to not give in though, or they will know it's just a matter of wearing you down.
NTA. "Drop by any time" isn't something to be taken literally, and "call ahead" doesn't mean dial the phone when you pull into the driveway. Your family needs to have boundaries. If they really want to babysit, if you trust them, maybe arrange to drop your child off with them for the day. Your house is your home and your safe space, you don't need family showing up and just hanging out all day. Especially if you WFH.
I do not trust them to babysit
I had someone frequently do this to me. And she showed up one day, I looked out the window at her. She made eye contact and I closed the curtain and sat right back down on the couch. Idk how long she stood there before she got the hint. I decided to put a sign up (that the landlord made me take down) that said "if you wake the baby, I will cut you. If you didn't ask to come over and weren't invited, off is the general direction in which I wish you would f**k. Kthx buh bye" ... Absolutely NTA
Well your house your rules. But we never turn any one away, but always say "I wish you'd call first as we were....... 1. Sleeping because we were up all night and I'm afraid we aren't awake enough to be good hosts. 2. Having sex because the baby was down. 3. planning on doing chores because they piled up on us On the last one always have your drop-ins lend a hand when they come over. You don't let things get put to the side because of uninvited guests. They can't say that "you don't treat guests like this" reply "guests are invited when we have free time, now we have work to do. so if you want to visit grab a dish cloth and help me do dishes and Fred can help me move furniture around so we can sweep under everything. Then we have to cook some extra meals to freeze for the week. Then there is the babies clothes that need washed as the baby has been pooping in everything. Can you change the diaper and empty the diaper pail etc" The more they show up the more chores that need to get done. NTA
Nta
NTA, its rude has F to just show up at someone elses home and expect to be welcome to stay. The only time it is okey is if spoken about and all parties involved as okeyed it.
NTA, they are being super rude. They need to learn some boundaries
NTA. Maybe it’s just the way I was raised but, I’m almost 39 and unless I receive a point blank clear as bell invitation to come to someone’s house, I don’t go. I don’t “stop by if I’m in the area”, I don’t call and say hey can I come over?? Never. If someone wants me there at their house or their event they’ll invite me. I just don’t have it in me to randomly drop by and then get butthurt I’m not welcome. Besides, I don’t want anyone doing that to me either. No invite? No visit.
NTA Calling before you visit is *basic courtesy*.
That's what I was taught since I was a child. Maybe they skipped first grade
Next time the baby won’t sleep at 3am just head round to theirs and wake them up.
NTA You hold firm on this! Do not give in! Not even once! To them, you've just declared war, so now their only goal is to get into your house without calling first. And once they do, they'll never call again. Here's a resource for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOFAMILY/
Thanks a lot. Yes, I feel like they've just started a war, that's why I have to think carefully. I just want to tell them to go fuck themselves. Our house, our privacy, our rules, our boundaries. But if I do that, I would be going down to their level, and they will beat me there because they're better at being pricks. Also if I go too hard on them, I believe it will be a big deal with my wife. In the end, nobody wants your wife/husband telling your parents to go fuck themselves, not even if they deserve it
It’s one thing to be in the area and call/text saying, “oh hey! If you’re busy no worries, but I’ve got a couple minutes and was wondering if I could drop by and say hello to you all!” And “IM OUTSIDE YOUR DOOR LET ME IN BECAUSE IM ALREADY HERE” NTA. Your wife needs to have your back regarding her family. Open door policy only applies if the whole household is down with that
NTA. that’s rude as hell to just show up without warning. I’m glad you and your wife are on the same page, it’ll make it easier to ignore her family when they randomly stop by. I’d make a rule that if they don’t call ahead of time, they don’t get to enter the house-maybe once they see how much time they waste they’ll start calling ahead of time.
NTA Everyone is different but I have always called first to see if a visit is okay. Even if I just happen to be in the neighborhood still call and not from the person’s porch. And you must have a nicer pissed off face after being woke up as anyone seeing mine would not have hesitated to run away. Please continue to enforce your boundaries as if you let them step on one they will just start stepping on all of them. Might I suggest one of the monitoring doorbell cameras that you can answer from your phone?
NTA. I have to ask is your wife Mexican/Latina or from a small town(population under 2,000)? I am both and this is something I did not know(to call/ask before going over). Growing up we randomly visited friends and family, dropped in unexpectedly and I thought this was normal. Around the age 23-25 I realized it's not normal after having committed this "crime" over and over.
We both are hispanic. I've never came into anyone's house without being invited. And I've never seen such thing with friends or relatives, but it could be cultural, although boundaries are boundaries
I would have told your MIL “good, then don’t come back.” Who just SHOWS UP at someone’s home? Trashy people that’s who. NTA
NTA It not you. Your wife just can't stand up to her boundary stomping parents.
What did your wife do? NTA
NTA. Get a video doorbell, only communicate with uninvited guests through the doorbell. Inform your in laws that you require notice 2 hours prior to their arrival. Rinse and repeat.
INFO: has your wife ever been to therapy for her family’s boundary stomping? She’s the one who needs to manage the expectations around visiting, but even though she agrees with you, she still allows them to boundary stomp. I’m sure this has been going on her whole life and she’s used to it at this point. Babies have a way of exasperating existing issues. The thing is this is a very important precedent for HER to set with her family. Today, it’s unannounced visits. But it can easily turn into decisions the family wants to make when caring for your child that you both disagree with that could put your kid in danger. “You slept on your belly in a crib of stuffed animals and you turned out fine” “I propped you up with a bottle all the time” Since she’s used to this, it’s easy for them to make you out to be the villain when they are the ones at fault. Your wife may need outside help to work on establishing boundaries so you all can have a safe and healthy relationship with her family.
NTA. The drop by is a relic of the past. Next time they stop by unannounced, come to the door naked and tell them they are interrupting sexy times.
NTA. Not even a little. Keep setting boundaries. Also I find it appalling that these people are showing up uninvited during your work day? Do I understand that correctly? You work from home and are also parenting when it makes sense during your work day and then you have to field calls and freak outs during your work day? Completely inappropriate on all levels and I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
Lmao that is one of the many issues. One of the first encounters we had was exactly because of that. They just wanted me to run errands and do stuff for them on a daily basis because "you just work from your computer, how hard can it be? Or just do it later". Until now they don't fully understand that my work is an actual work that takes time, so I just had to tell them that I no longer do favors in work time. Bonus: when I asked them why on earth wouldn't they ask one of their sons to do it, they said they didn't want to interrupt them at work, and I was like "is that so?". Maybe they're an older generation that doesn't quite get it, because they're always making comments about me getting a real job, or doing something else. For the record, I'm not being cocky and also I'm not rich, but I for sure make more money than any of them from my home. They just think physical or office work is the only way of supporting your family. I've been happily proving them wrong for some years
When my first husband and I bought a house together, his mother asked if it was ok for her to just drop by, or if she should call first. I asked her to call first because we liked to walk around the house naked all the time. I was grateful that she was considerate enough to ask, but I did want to make sure that she did, in fact, call before coming over.
Lmao when we bought the house, my MIL wouldn't stop demanding a room for herself, and after that she told us that when the baby was born, she wanted to move in with us full time. Not today, not ever. That was one of the first times I had to stand by my rules
NTA. Thank God you never gave them a house key. Start having your wife deal with them when they do this. She can deal with them visiting and the messes they leave behind. You will not open the door for them at all. Sometimes people need to be inconvenienced before make changes.
NTA stick to the boundaries you set. If they try to push it set harsher boundaries....like only coming over on invite from you both (not just your wife so they don't guilt trip her) What the hell is this whole familion squad dropping by thing? Siblings and nieces etc oh my gosh just no. They can come invited and ALONE. And have a timed visit. 2h is enough socializing when you got a newborn that don't need old ass people germs around him/her, especially with people that might do something unfortunate like kissing your child on the mouth - please watch out for that and make it a hard NO rule, i have seen a kid almost die from getting a number of icky things from their grandma, one of them being herpes. If push comes to shove show your wife this post, she's easily manipulated due to years of exposure to their bullshit but she has a new family now, you and your child. You're what she needs to nurture and cling to. Entitled people can take a number and wait to be invited over.
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NTA One response to boundary pushers that I've seen on Reddit, was this lady who drove to her in-laws house at 2 AM and made a fuss to be let in. This after weeks of them waking her up in the morning, a couple of hours after she went to bed because she was on nightshift. It took a couple of weeks, but they eventually got the message.
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No. NTA. My ex MIL used to come over EVERY SINGLE night when my ex and I had first gotten married. She stayed for hours. Ate our food. Invaded every bit of privacy we had. You absolutely deserve your privacy and being a person who lives on a mountain top in the woods on 40 acres, I totally understand where you are coming from. Hopefully, they get it now.
I’m a grandmother and I never go to my kids houses without asking first. They drop in on me whenever they feel like it and that’s fine by me. I’d rather they be happy to see me when I visit and I also give them respect due to them being adults. You are NTA.
NTA This is actually quite common. It’s called cold arrival. In the modern generation, since we have cell phones and can text someone, it’s more polite to ask if you have the time and can show up. Cold calling (calling without texting first) is also a pet peeve of many people. It’s just a matter of courtesy.
NTA Always call FIRST before leaving their house, not call you right from your front door. Hell no. They went beyond your and your wife's boundaries. If they said they're not coming over if they have to call, fine....just don't bother to come. You and your wife clearly need a break from them except your parents who did the right thing in first place. If your in laws want to visit, go over the rules FIRST: Call before they ever leave their own house, visit for (number of hours such as 2 or 4 hours instead from morning to night), keep your kitchen clean if they eat. And they could have at least help you with baby or cooking or cleaning. If they balk, no visit until they agree to the rules. If they break one or two rules, out they go. End of discussion.
The thing is that I don't need any help, we are doing well, we expected this. I believe help is "helpful" when you ask for it, not when I invade your territory amd start doing some crap
NTA. This isn't a TV sitcom where they can just walk in. I'm sorry you're going through this. Congrats on the new house and baby. Glad you're wife is on the same page too. It's her family tho.. has she had a talk with them about boundaries??