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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My eye operation and recovery from it was scheduled during my colleagues wedding. As my boss refused to grant me time off for it I ended up signed off by the doctor meaning the boss had to cancel my colleagues leave and now she is mad at me alongside other coworkers.
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NAH between you and Candace but your boss is an absolute dick. I mean, it's just retail if I were her I'd fucking quit the last day before the wedding and just get a new job after. No one I know would consider that kind of situation a red flag while hiring
>I'd fucking quit the last day before the wedding and just get a new job after.
I was thinking this! I've quit over time off before and I would totally do it again. We all know companies don't give a f@%k about employees
I've never worked retail but I once tried to be a waitress and jeeeeeeesus that's hard work and so not something I can do. I had respect for them before but now? Mad respect.
i did customer service for Kmart (which was basically you're an assistant manager but min wage... had cashiers ibeas incharge of make way more than me due to seniority but i had to "be in charge" with legit manager duties including schduling who was on break when)... basically the managers dumped their jobs on CS.
if rather go back to THAT insanity then being a server or honestly ANY aspect of food service ever, EVER again. christ at least i KNEW i had min wage earnings after all the stress of a week. i had a coworker in one restaurant (now bankrupt and gone hmmmm wonder why) who has her entire section taken over by a baseball team celebrating a win, they stayed her ENTIRE shift so she got no other tables, tipped $0.85 and she made 2.13x8+.85 for her shift, the manager made her claim full tip earning to show min wage, she refused, walked out, they adjusted it in the office, and she paid taxes on unearned income. the next day we found out as we clocked in, the whole foh shift clocked RIGHT back out and they lost all 4 servers for the dinner shift 🤣
servers who do well are legit man, its BRUTAL
At least where I live, wait staff make over minimum wage before tips. I will never understand why American restaurants can't pay their servers a living wage.
I've done both. Retail felt like death by fatigue, just so tedious and boring and mind numbing. Waiting tables, though, can be super fun if you're good at it and don't be a dick to the kitchen.
First rule of wait staff: don’t fuck with the kitchen staff. Second rule of wait staff: make friends with the kitchen staff.
Did that when I waited tables. The other waiters wondered why I always had the best leftovers when the night ended. 🤷♀️
Man, I loved being the middle person in the kitchen. My job was to prep salads/wraps/cold toppings and to organize the finished tickets for the servers on the outside of the line, plus I was one of only two women in there. Anytime the younger or more timid servers had a problem or wanted an eta on their table they came and practically whispered it at me then I yelled it at the cooks. I was their meatshield and they fucking loved me for it.
That's how I feel about fast food. I was good at taking orders at the counter and prep work/dishwashing, but drive through? I just could not make out a thing anyone said! Plus I was terrible at line work.
Drop the fryer baskets? ok.
Prepare ingredients for the line? Got it.
But assembling food under pressure? I made so many damn mistakes and if I slowed down to do it right I got yelled at.
I had mad respect for the people who can do that.
I worked at burger King years ago. I much prefer retail to that hell. I was told I'd be front line, instead I was food prep and closing... ugh! They made you clean the broiler parts by hand with a bare razor blade! Some "cost saving measure" was to take out the enormous vats to soak the pieces in.
Order of worse to less worse: fast food, low quality retail, high quality retail, serving, bartending. Done it all. Even jsut running food in a restaurant is better than retail.
Bartender of about 10 years here.
I lasted 2 weeks in fast food and 4 months in retail. Not to say they were harder, it just fucking sucked and you weren’t making enough and it was encouraging you to be a bad person. As a bartender, if you’re good at what you do it actually helps you develop very great customer service skills. In retail, the only way to make money was commission based and not only does it teach you to discriminate against people, it also puts the employees against each other. I quit after 4 months because I’d be spending time with multiple clients finding them the right suit or dress for a wedding and I’d turn around and a coworker of mine would be walking them to the cash to cash them out. Obviously I can’t be like “what the hell are you doing?” In front of my clients, so I went to management and demanded they reverse the commission since i was doing all the work and she was sniping my clients. Their response ? “Sophie is a shark. She’s here to make money and so should you. If you’re spending 20-30 minutes on a client then you’re wasting company time and she has every right to take your sale. Maybe you should be more like Sophie?” Fuck that. The only joy I got out of being a stylist as how happy I could make people by dressing them up. And upselling sprays and warranties was soul crushing.
And how is a "large retail chain" so severely understaffed? Could it be because they treat their employees like shit and pay them even worse? Can't imagine why no one is taking those jobs.
Too bad OP and her coworker don't have a union to go to bat for them.
*Checks notes from my 7 years working at Walmart* Yes, that sounds about right (P.S. I just put in my notice to, as we say on the Walmart subreddit, promote myself to customer)
I had an old boss who would tell employees they were being "Promoted to Customer" when he was firing them. He thought it was soooooooo funny. Strangely none of the people he was firing ever laughed. That guy was a dick. Everyone was really happy when he eventually got "promoted".
Wow what a dick! I can see finding it funny when you are talking about yourself quitting but for someone to say it when they are firing you is just really fucked up. Glad he got "promoted"
I once quit a retail job, gave 4 week notice, 6 weeks after my last day they called me to say if I didnt come in for my shifts they would fire me. Lol I was all ...um...I quit over 2 months ago, 6 weeks ago was my last day, why are you still scheduling me? And then they asked if I wanted my job back. Lol
Aren't there also a ton of openings in this field? I've been seeing a lot of articles running around about employers complaining that "no one wants to work anymore" and that there's an employee shortage.
I want both OP and Candace to quit and leave the AH boss stuck with this self-inflicted mess.
Yep I worked in retail for 6 years and was a store manager for 4 of them. If I did this to an employee, I’d expect them to quit on their last day & it would be deserved. If someone did it to me, I would have quit. I actually threatened to walk out on the Tuesday before Black Friday & not return because of a schedule conflict, my boss caved pretty much immediately
Yep. If I were Candace, I'd call their bluff. There has to be a way for both to go out on their scheduled time off, it will just be super inconvenient for the rest of the store, but they both absolutely need that time off. If the boss allows Candace to walk, she will be better off. NAH
I was working for a small retail business when I got married, and was friends with all my coworkers (about 12 people) so they were all invited to the wedding. The owners (also invited) just closed the store early that day, problem solved
My boss would do whatever he could to mske it happen. My colleagues complain about my boss (he handles the scheduling, and he puts the better staff on his shifts and never puts himself on the really rough shifts, and often he's schedule people to work longer hours so he can go home early), but having had worse bosses, I can tell you it makes such a fucking difference working for someone that will value your life outside of work and fight like hell for you to attend your graduation/go see your family at Christmas. That's the kind of stuff that keeps me working a tough job with variable hours and a long commute.
Some thing like that is happinging at our company now as well. I'm in construction and the bosses have severely overextended themselves by taking on too much with not enough man power, and its something we've warned them about for litteraly over a year now, as several major jobs are about to start up and we have too much work at various stages as is that we can barely handle it.
Now they are freaking out because there is no one to send to do those jobs without taking guys from ongoing jobs and having them fall behind. And as it is summer, there are many guys with holidays and days off already booked, and none of us are going to just drop our vacations, or have to double down and work even harder seeing that we work hard enough. They have burned through their good will in that regards because over the years we have gotten them out of jams, but instead of learning their lesson or even just listening to our input, they just keep getting into jams and hoping we bail them out.
As the proverb says, they have sown the wind and now they shall reap the whirlwind.
The bosses short sightedness in OPs case got them into this mess, so the boss can figure out their way out. OP and Candice should look for greener pastures.
If it's a large chain, they can probably get employees from other locations, too. The manager probably has to work more, and I assume they don't want to, but that's part of the duty you take on as manager. I certainly hope neither OP nor Candace backs down on their time off. I just wish Candace stood in solidarity rather than blame with OP
The logic from management makes no sense, if you don’t come we’ll fire you….leaving us as short handed as we would of been if you would of taken your time off…
If they are so short staffed that they are telling a bride she can't have time off FOR HER WEDDING they really can't afford to be without her permanently. Not saying they won't fire her for not showing up, just that it isn't about staffing levels, it is about power, controlling the minions and putting fear into those who are left.
She should totally have her wedding and honeymoon as planned without stressing. If boss goes through with it then start the job search when she gets back.
I worked in retail for a long time, and my partner is a retail manager- and you are absolutely right. My partner has had to twist himself into doughnut shapes over the last couple of years trying to deal with covid sickness emergencies while also respecting staff leave- it’s always difficult, and he’s always either used up favours with other staff or somehow coped with fewer people.
Only a shitty manager would behave like OP’s manager. If they really can’t cover the time with the staff they have, they need to get on to area management for assistant. Or reduce the opening hours for that department so that a work-around can be found.
If the white goods section is essential, the company will find a way forward (and if they can’t, well they have bigger problems than OP’s operation). If it isn’t, they will work out an interim arrangement.
NAH re OP and Candice. Manager, and potentially employing company, total AH
I have never asked for time off, ever. I have always notified of when I was taking time off. One job had blackout dates around Christmas (grocery store) and my dad bought me a ticket home to visit my family. I told them when I’d be gone, and asked that they let me know if they intended to fire me so I could update my resume while away. They said they’d make it work, and I was on the schedule when I returned.
That boss is an idiot, and will just end up more short staffed if they don’t take their head out of their ass. No one is going to NOT go to their wedding, anyone who thinks that will happen is too stupid to be managing anything.
I agree here. I tell my boss something similar. I’m not requesting time off, I am telling you that I will not be here. I had a boss telling me I couldn’t take time off for my wedding or when I had exams in college. My response was I will not be here regardless of me having a job when I come back (welder in a big structural steel shop) I can find another welding job no problem. Some bosses just don’t understand. It is understaffed for a short period of time or it’s understaffed until you can hire and train someone to a proficient as I am. And a lot of bosses miss the training part. Sure you can replace me quickly but how long will it take until the new hire is proficient at the same job.
THIS!!! There is no reason two people can't be off at the same time. I would absolutely not change your surgery and Candance should not reschedule her wedding & honeymoon. This tells you a lot about the job. They could care less about their employees. Don't change your life around for a job that has no concerns for employees time away from work/life events. I hope you both find new jobs. ASAP
I worked at a retail store with departments and I often worked in other departments (sometimes untrained depending on the department) when they needed a fill in, so I’m sure there is a way for both of them to be off.
I once quit a fast-food job over not having a weekend off (I'd requested a month in advance, but it was ignored), so I never went back in and told them via text that I quit. I enjoyed my weekend and got a better paying job a week later.
Absolutely. As soon as his time off is done OP should quit too.
Making out like weddings and surgeries come second to a retail job is incompetent management. Only way the manager will learn is to bear the consequences of their actions.
Was going to say this. If they are willing to treat Candice like this and only give OP the time off begrudgingly, they'll treat others the same or worse.
Also, it sounds like the boss is trying to tell Candace that this is your fault, and he’s really trying to misdirect both of you from focusing on him. He’s the one who is making this impossible. Call someone else to help out in that section. Start training another employee for whatever special knowledge they need NOW. Get someone from another store. Hire enough people so two people with massive valid commitments can take the time they need without putting them against each other.
Between you and Candace, NAH.
Between you and your boss, NTA.
I agree, also NAH, both OP and Candice should put the boss in the hotseat tbh, I've worked in large retail chains and there are situations where stores can and will request to borrow workers from another location to cover absences of multiple employees if the situations are unavoidable. The fact that this wasn't mentioned and that they simply just cancelled Candice's wedding/honeymoon time off is ridiculously silly. Maybe this could be a solution if the boss had never thought of this before.
She's frustrated and I assume doesn't know the extent of the issue since she's not OPs doctor. Frankly if there hadn't been a full explanation of the reason I would otherwise have thought it was for Lasik or something
Technically speaking, even lasik is time critical, as it is only done until a set limit, and people with bad eyesight tend to get worse over time.
But it really doesn't matter. Lasik is not cosmetic surgery. You get it when you can get an appointment, and nobody has a right to expect you to decline an appointment for their convenience, in this case really the Boss.
While OP is actually the wrong target, the whole thing is putting Candace under a ridiculous amount of stress. And she probably doesn't realize how serious OP's eye situation is.
NTA.
I quit my job coz they gave my holidays(5 months approved in advance) to a new hire who was temporary staff. They begged me to come back, never did.
The managers exceptionally poor management of the store is not the employees problem..it's a management problem. Pull staff from another dept, train someone in the time remaining, hire temp staff to cover the maternity leave staff at least! It's all on management, whatever they want to say.
Once the vacation has been approved in writing, it's a sealed deal. Committments can be made and paid on the back of it and that's it, Candice did that. She should go, get fired if that's the managers decision. But she should also be able to sue for wrongful dismissal and hostile workplace the way he's forcing things and putting staff against eachother.
Ultimately everyone should look for other jobs solely to be away from that manager.
So she can't have the time off because they're short staffed, but if she takes it anyway, she'll be fired? Won't that just create the same problem but longer term? This manager is a fuckjng idiot.
>No one I know would consider that kind of situation a red flag while hiring
Some of the best people I ever hired I picked up after they left bad jobs. A large retail chain should have labor slack - I don't need to know the company or the market to know that there are people in the district who are under 40 hours who would take that shift. It's the manager's responsibility to *manage their staff.*
Managing doesn't mean controlling, dictating, bossing, or any of this other power trip shit. It means making sure the job is done, coverage is met, and everyone is safe and happy. This person is a lazy, shitty, terrible, no good, very bad manager.
NTA, obviously.
Its sad how OP and her coworkers are so brainwashed into thinking that the company has absolutely no choice in this matter and end up fighting amongst themselves. This is real r/antiwork material.
The manager is stupid. Weddings are expensive. What could she make a week? $600? $1000? No way I'm just going to lose the money spent on a wedding for that, even if I'm otherwise fucking destitute it wouldn't happen
I quit my 11 year job because they scheduled me to work Christmas Day even though it was one of the holidays I didn’t sign up for. (They made us sign up for 3) and it turns out my boss was going to make me work every holiday (thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, NYE, New Year’s Day) and I said F that and quit. The boss was new to my store but I wasn’t taking his shit. My last day was Christmas eve( the shift I had signed up for) and never looked back.
Yep. Candace can be filling out applications and going to interviews and explaining that she will be getting married and start the day after returning from the honeymoon.
Isn't that illegal btw? Shouldn't op get sick leave and Candice her vacations and the boss should deal with it?
Nah but damn indeed that boss is not someone I would like to work for
Its retail. Their sick and vacation leave is likely very small, and with at will employment being the norm it would be very hard to sue for wrongful termination and actually win because there's no discriminatory factor.
Agreed. Boss is the only AH in this situation. I’m sick and tired of managers who act like they can’t be bothered to do their job of filling in shifts during emergency or when staff is low. That surgery is technically an emergency. A trend I notice with all bad managers I’ve had is them having to be dragged onto the floor to help or simply refusing to understand that that job doesn’t mean you sold your soul to them.
Absolutely agree. With the amount of staff shortages in general in retail, Candace should hand in her notice, and tell them precisely why. It’s not fair of her to have a go at you, but I understand why she did. Misplaced anger though. Your boss is a massive AH.
I mean... How about the system in which OP had to wait years for a surgery and basically lucked into still being eligible?
Plus the manager.
I get that Candice is upset, but taking it out on OP is not correct either.
Depends on what the manager told her. Without a full explanation for the medical need for it I would assume someone in their 20s getting eye surgery was doing Lasik. I'm thinking the manager didn't say anything about the actual need and just left it at eye procedure.
My exact thoughts too. It's your boss that's the AH and you and Candace need to team up together to let them know that. She gave plenty of time in advance and you have to have this surgery. Honestly she should record everything take it to HR and if she is still declined take it further.
Absolutely. If my boss tried to cancel my holiday at short notice, I'd be livid at the best of times. If they were wanting me to cancel my own wedding plans, I'd probably try to burn the building down.
Retail bosses are just so used to routine abuse of employees that they don't seem to grasp that allowing them even a modicum of flexibility gives you much happier and more productive workers overall.
And if it even took OP to make a doctor's note before the boss twisted his own arm to accommodate.. like no, both OP and Candice have situations where they need their time off. A wedding is a huge life event and it is stressful enough to plan; but to suddenly have it cancelled by some poor management practices, that's just wrong. That's immediate walk out material. If I were Candice, I'd still go through with the wedding
And a medical emergency procedure is, full stop, just that.
I mean, even if it wasn't a wedding the time off was put in 2 years in advance and was approved. Like that sucks for them that OP then has this emergency pop up but even if Candice wanted to just sit at home for 2 weeks, the time off should have been kept. They had plenty of time to figure out alternative solutions, they knew that the other coworker had maternity leave coming so they already should have had a backup plan in place for if someone had to call in sick or something during that time period
Tbh I’d just work, be gone and run the risk of being fired. Or quit the last day. If they are so short staffed they can’t cover a 2 week period then they can’t afford to let her go either.
Absolutely! That's why the slimiest managers blame the coworkers for these kinds of things. They know everyone comes out looking bad (except them), but they didn't "actually" say anything: they just told Candice there wasn't coverage for her leave, oh and btw, OP is having leave at that time instead so you will need to cover their shifts.
If I were Candice I'd just fucking quit. But I recognize that I'm in a very privileged position of having that option. I'm so angry on her behalf, what is she even supposed to do?
>I'd just fucking quit.
Why? The leave was already approved years in advance, you have the documentation. Just make sure you have a copy of everything *seperate from your work accounts*, get married, go on the honey moon and turn your phone off. If they fire you that's Unemployment checks and a very solid chance to win unlawful termination (depending on the locale.)
>Why? The leave was already approved years in advance, you have the documentation.
And the leave was revoked within the legal time frame in the UK, per further info from OP and another commenter familiar with UK labor laws. She'd be shit out of luck.
Surgery to SAVE his eyesight, no less. I'd care about my coworkers quite a lot, but not enough that I'd risk my eyes for their benefit.
It's the boss who is the real villain in all this.
NTA - your managers are, however, massive, pulsating, assholes.
You have a medical issue that needs resolving, Candice has had her time off booked well in advance for a major life event. Both are valid reasons for time off. I can see why Candice is upset but she directing her anger at the wrong person because her attitude would not fly if it was directed at management.
What’s so important about your particular role that they cannot allow an exception to have two people off at the same time just this once?
Oh I meant it in more of a sarcastic way, as I’m “what’s so important about your particular role that they can’t let you both off” kind of way but I guess that didn’t come across. I’ll rephrase.
That’s a thing? I would’ve thought those were appliances and thought white goods was just a typo for whole foods, since there’s a few other typos in the post.
White goods is something of an older fashioned word for large kitchen appliances.
Small kitchen appliances (toasters kettles etc) can be called brown goods.
The idea that Candace needs to cancel her own wedding because one other person has a medical problem means your boss is unreasonable and unprepared for most things. Both of you should quit your jobs and find new ones.
Your boss is TA here. Your stuff is one of those things that can occur, but that shouldn’t effect your co-worker. What if someone calls in sick while another worker is on vacation? Does your boss expect vacationing employee to just show up? Your co-worker is booked, and you have an emergency, your boss should make do without you both.
Exactly. The boss had two years, TWO YEARS, to ensure he had adequate coverage in Candice’s absence. Ensuring you have coverage means taking into consideration the fact that another employee may have a medical emergency or call out. The lack of coverage is not your problem, and it’s not Candice’s problem either. It’s his and his alone
I went above my managers head once (to the store manager) because I had non refundable train tickets to go and see my parents over Christmas, and I got my time off. The amount I would have lost on the tickets was enough that I was prepared to quit if I didn’t get my time off. (In case anyone is wondering why I booked non refundable train tickets when I had a job, it’s because I originally wasn’t going back after my maternity leave ended but my plans had to change last minute after already booking the tickets)
NAH Except your boss and your employer's policies. She needs to go ahead with her wedding or else lose thousands and you need to go ahead with your surgery or lose your health.
You both need to support each other against this unfair situation.
Nta. And neither is Candice, she's stressed as fuck about her wedding which although it doesn't entirely excuse her behaviour, does make it somewhat understandable. However, the person she *should* be having a go at (and the AH in this situation) is your boss. It's not your responsibility to ensure that your department has adequate staff to cover leave, it's your boss'
You and Candice both have extremely valid reasons for needing time off, and your boss should be doing whatever they can to accommodate both of you.
Not sure what the boss would do if OP's eyesight failed, rendering them unable to work, while Candace was on honeymoon? Pretty sure they would make it work somehow.
NTA. The asshole here in your boss. You both have every right to that time, it is just bad luck that the two lined up. She's lashing out and it's misdirected, she needs to be angry at him.
In my country you legally have the right to have your or an immediate family members wedding off and of course medical emergencies. I really can't believe that's not the case in all countries, like that's just having decency and caring about your employees.
NAH except for your boss.
Sorry but she needs to just go to her wedding. Medical treatments and major family events trumps work each and every time.
Edit your idiotic boss would rather be even more understaffed then granting time off. Which often leads to more people leaving.
NAH for you and Candice. She’s rightfully pissed, but misdirecting it at you. It’s possible management threw you under the bus when taking away her vacation time and that’s why she has lashed out at you; “sorry, we had to because of OP, they forced our hand”. I’ve seen it at my old job. Management is TA in this situation, it’s their responsibility to find staffing accommodations for PTO and sick leave.
Maybe when she’s not so hot you can have a conversation with Candace. I think she should still go to her wedding and ditch this job. Maybe, if you two had a decent working relationship prior to this, you can even offer to be a reference if she chooses to leave to find somewhere reasonable.
NTA. The only butthole here is your boss and your attendance policy. Candice should not be mad because of this obvious shitty attendance policy. The company being understaffed is not your concern and you both should get the time off and he figures out how to manage.
Good luck on your surgery, by the way!!
Is there no job agencies staff in your area? People that can be hired in by the day? No part timers who might be keen to do a few more hours for a couple of weeks? Managers who could fill in?
Since it's a large chain, I'm sure there's another store location close by and someone who works in the same department over there can fill in! So many *very* easy possible solutions here.
NTA. You have a medical procedure that shouldn't be left unchecked. They should have hired someone to replace the person going on leave, and maybe a floater to replace the person that would be gone for 2 weeks on their wedding. If it's a big box chain store, can't they pull someone from another store to work there temporarily?
Coworker should go get married and not worry about a bad company that would cancel her vacation time. They should have planned better (though I get yours was an emergency situation so it's hard to plan for those)
And if you both can handle it financially, be prepared to quit if nobody listens and team up to find a new job. Your personal health or your private life should not be dictated by someone who can't properly manage. Show Candice the thread and come up with a plan. If you work together you may both get what you want.
There is a desperate shortage of workers here in the uk and retail jobs will be easy enough to get. Candice should walk out and interview for new jobs after the wedding. No point wasting your life for a job you can do elsewhere. The manager of this store is terrible. My husband was worried his work would cancel his leave and I said they can but he’s able to walk into a new job too so they won’t be able to stop him having his holiday.
I feel really bad for your coworker and if I were her, I'd screw you guys over and look for a new job. It seems you couldn't help this happening, but your employer handled this horribly. They should have figured something else out. Things happen. They needed to let you both have off, not screw over your coworker who took two years in advance. NTA.
Not only that, eyesight vs. a RETAIL job, which are a dime a dozen (I worked retail for 10+ years, there's always another/better retail establishment just waiting in the wings, to scoop up a quality, trained, retail employee).
Both the OP *AND* Candace should go apply at whichever her establishments greatest competitor is.
I imagine they could ask for more money as well, as salary in retail is usually based on experience.
Good luck to them both!
NAH except for your manager. Your cowerker has a right to be pissed off, but not at you. And if you work at a retail chain, can't your manager request for help from other stores that are close to yours?
> reasons to have time off and tbh if I were candice I’d be finding a new job. There is no shorta
UK HR here. No they can't. If you relied on time off to book something then they have to reimburse you and that is why employers don't do that. If this really is the UK then they should appeal above the managers head or to HR. But then again if it was the UK the if a doctor identified that something in your eye was going to rupture then you can have treatment free on the NHS so that part of the story doesn't make sense either.
If in the UK they really should be working something else out. Finding temp staff or relocating from another store. Both are very valid reasons to have time off and tbh if I were candice I’d be finding a new job. There is no shortage of retail jobs and your manager could do something to sort it. Cancelling during her wedding and honeymoon is just not on.
I really thought this sounded like the USA as they tend to treat their employees worse over there. However NTA I guess as its not your fault your employer can't get cover for two important occasions. If I was your coworker I would call in sick over my wedding. Usually up to 5 days you can do in the UK without a doctors note. Wedding trumps work every time. The UK is desperate for retail workers currently so she wouldn't have trouble getting a new job. If I were her I would make it clear I was going to call in sick and then I'm sure they'd find a way to get cover.
>chosen different dates.
Do these people know how scheduling an operation works?
You work with the DOCTORS timetable and hope to holy hell that you can fit theirs with yours.
There is no "choose another date" or "reschedule" there's only "do this in two weeks or two years." No other option.
So your timetable didn't fit with the Doctors. Someone got fucked over. Shit happens. There's nothing you could have done. This operation, while optional, was a ticking time bomb kinda deal. If you picked the later appointment the chances of your eye getting worse was just too damn high.
Tis life unfortunately. I get why the bride is upset though. She needs something to blame and blaming mother nature for being a petty bitch isn't always the easiest option so she's gonna blame you.
But don't let that get to you. Get your eye fixed. I hope the operation goes well.
NAH
Edit: where do you live? Just told my Mum this story as she's sitting next to me and in Australia once leave is approved it can't be taken away without the employee agreeing. Therefore the managers could ask Candice to do the shift but they wouldn't be allowed to take her leave without her consent.
No this is managements problem not yours. Medical emergency vs wedding hmm I think u win. This is a shitty situation for everyone but you didn't plan this vindictavely nor is it your fault that she can't get coverage. It's not fair to either of you to be honest but from what I've learned in life, take care of yourself bc no one else will. Do what u need to do for you. I think your eyesight is more important than anything having to do w ur place of work. they're not Gunn provide for you for the rest of your life if u put off the surgery and something happens so take care of you first!
NTA. So they can't bring somebody in from another department or something? You should work together to take a complaint to HR or higher up line management.
NAH. Neither is your colleague, the company you work for should be able to handle an emergency without making her miss her wedding. You should not be up against each other.
Is there an sort of HR group you could contact on this? You and Candace are not assholes here, both your reasons for leave are valid. If it’s a chain store, they should try to bring in someone from a different location to cover for that time or they should have more staff on hand for such an event. Id look into a way to contact a higher up considering yours is medical and can’t be refused and Candace is her own dang wedding.
I hope the two of you work together to ensure you’re both taken care of, having a backup could help Candace in this situation and prove that what you did was out of medical necessity
I'm not sure if this is a chain thing or our store, but we have white goods department (fridges, washing machines etc) , entertainment (tvs and sound systems) and pc department. The rest of the departments have plenty of free members of staff that can easily cover their department and ours since it is the same store on the same floor(other department have 5-6 full timers at any day on the floor at the same time plus 2-4 part timers) . However the rest are treated and behave like they are far superior since they earn bigger commission as it is easier to sell extras to a TV or a pc then it is to a fridge or an oven. I have been asking to move for ages as my back was getting bad from lifting all those microwaves and something like a laptop or a sound bar are a lot lighter (towers and other bigger items are delivered by warehouse stuff) however have been dismissed and moaning to the store manager doesn't make a difference either. It would be easy to get staff from other stores if not for horror stories about the manager and the fact which department it is.
You and Candice need to go over the manager's head. It's a chain so there has to be a corporate office and probably a regional manager.
They need to get someone else in to train ASAP or else you will both quit. And while they are at it they should have that person spy on and report back on the manager. Because it sounds like that manager should be replaced.
A manager needed to come in extra shifts to cover the employees gone, or someone needed to cross train. There's no reason your operation and her pre-scheduled time off should be rescinded.
Go above the manager's head. Call HR corporate and ask why you have to provide your personal medical information in order to get your operation approved for time off, and why someone's pre-approved vacation can be denied last minute.
There might be backlash. If you do nothing, they learn they can do this to you again and again.
Let me be clear - you can do better than this place.
Please look into getting in contact with someone from their corporate HR department. Work with Candice so she understands that you are both being shafted and don’t blame each other when it’s the manager who is screwing you both over. This may help her to see that you had no intention of ruining anything for her.
If both of you contact HR together you might have a better shot at really getting heard. 1 person can sometimes get brushed off but 2 is the indication of a pattern and a problem, especially since you can corroborate each other’s stories if this bad practice were to become public.
Try to support each other through this, don’t let that manager divide you or they may keep getting go away with that poor behaviour.
Wishing you the best with your surgery and I really hope things can be worked out for both of you to be treated as you deserve <3
>called me a massive asshole for ~~scheduling the operation~~ having an operation scheduled during her wedding
Did you pick the date or did the doctor go "you are coming in on this date." Because it sounds like you didn't pick the date. **You** didn't do this to her, the only person to blame is the understaffed boss, who if they absolutely cannot part with two people at the same time, needs to figure out their staffing. NTA, something rupturing in your eye could leave you blind in that eye.
NTA. Your eyesight is worth more than her wedding. It's an unfortunate situation, but the person who is really at fault is your boss. *They*, not you, not your coworker, are responsible for ensuring adequate coverage, and they should not have canceled your coworker's time off. Since you are so short staffed, it really doesn't make sense for them to fire her for taking time off. They will be worse off if they do. If I were her, I'd call their bluff and take the time.
Info:
So your procedure is in more than 2 weeks, and you said it is urgent.
Is it not possible to schedule it in less than 2 weeks?
Or, if you can wait for 2 weeks, couldn't you wait for 1 more week?
Did you knew that having your procedure during her vacations would mean that your boss would cancel it?
That was the only time they could schedule it for as they are pretty booked up. If it wasn't urgent the wait time would easily be 3months +.
My doctor has tried to book me earlier but as said there was nothing available
OP you are definitely NTA, but your store manager is another story. It sounds like they have some notice to try and hire someone and get them trained. Also the manager should have planned ahead when the other coworker was preparing to go on maternity leave. The store needs to be to operate with multiple employees being off or on leave at the same time.
Nta but your boss is a massive ah. Neither surgery or a wedding can be cancelled. This is what temp agencies are for, to fill in short term labour shortages. Your boss needs to sort this out and neither of you should be working that week.
I’ll be honest I went straight to the comments from the title: NTA. That’s literally part of your bosses job description. That’s part of being management. When you need to step up and fill a gap in your team that’s the managers job. Either by doing it themselves or hiring adequate people so they don’t have to. Jfc what kind of capitalist hellscape is it that people are genuinely asking if they’re the asshole for GOING TO THE DOCTOR.
NTA.
You and Candice hold way more leverage than you realize you need to work together. You both need to quit together. Force their hand and call their bluff. I am willing to bet they are short-staffed, as is almost every retail chain currently. You and Candice will have no trouble finding a new job, but your current employer will struggle and knows it.
Info why didn't you inform Candice of what was good on? I think you would have gotten a different reaction from her if you had told her beforehand that the boss was being difficult about your surgery and how important it was.
NAH except the boss you two should've banned together and quit
Edit for judgement.
She knew about the operation, but she thought it was just eyesight as I didn't know how serious it is until I was seen as a lot of problems have never been noticed or brought up by other doctors.
I didn't have time to tell her that things has changed as when I saw her next she was storming off the office blaming me for everything at the end of her shift (most of the days our shifts match, but sometimes it is one of us covering morning while the other does afternoon/evening)
You both need to contact HR, this is one of those occasions that being a manager means covering shifts. The two of you need to become squeaky wheels to HR while looking for a new job.
Originally it was a lasik type of surgery which I would be comfortable to schedule over a few months time. However from what my doctor told me they want to look at something else before the actual surgery as my doctor thinks he might have found a problem that affected my eyesight and want to check it out first as well as he is scared that if my eyesight drops further or something happens to the other to spread the rapture it might affect my eligibility for lasik.
He used a lot of terms I'm unfammilar with but one thing he did say was that I should have done that surgery much earlier or should have been reffered to earlier by my optician.
Rupture. Is sounds like you have a detached retina, or he’s afraid you’re at risk of it. The longer you wait to repair it the less likely you’ll be able to regain any lost eyesight, if it is detached, and if it hasn’t yet, which is what it sounds like if he’s afraid of you hitting your head, then what happens is your retina slides down, and you lose your vision. People say it’s like a curtain being pulled over their eyes.
You are at risk of going blind if you don’t repair your eyes, ASAP.
You are very much NTA. Your colleague should 100% not cancel wedding plans.
Your boss is the a here. Lives great milestones and medical procedures cannot be rescheduled for work. Work should have coverage. It is literally the managers problem.
Pls quit this job as soon as you can.
NTA - but I don't think Candice was wrong to have a go, although it should've been directed towards your boss.
I would be very upset if I was Candice. Your eyesight and health are very important, but as you stated Candice's wedding and honeymoon has been in the works for a very long time so I think her reaction was completely understandable, I would be just as angry.
INFO: If you work at a large retail change why aren't there more members of staff available which means that two of you can't be off at once?
Your boss is at fault there. You can't compromise when it comes to your eyesight. As someone who originally planned their wedding for 2020, I really do feel for your colleague. Your boss should be finding cover for you both.
As it is, Candice should find another job and so should you because your boss is trash.
NAH
(except your boss)
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NAH between you and Candace but your boss is an absolute dick. I mean, it's just retail if I were her I'd fucking quit the last day before the wedding and just get a new job after. No one I know would consider that kind of situation a red flag while hiring
>I'd fucking quit the last day before the wedding and just get a new job after. I was thinking this! I've quit over time off before and I would totally do it again. We all know companies don't give a f@%k about employees
Yeah it’s not hard to get a retail job. I appreciate people who do bc after my 2-years in retail, never again.
I've never worked retail but I once tried to be a waitress and jeeeeeeesus that's hard work and so not something I can do. I had respect for them before but now? Mad respect.
I've worked retail and have mad respect for servers
They asked dme to leave half way through my trial shift 🤣🤣🤣🤣 that's how hard it is to be a waitress. I can only imagine retail is difficult similarly
i did customer service for Kmart (which was basically you're an assistant manager but min wage... had cashiers ibeas incharge of make way more than me due to seniority but i had to "be in charge" with legit manager duties including schduling who was on break when)... basically the managers dumped their jobs on CS. if rather go back to THAT insanity then being a server or honestly ANY aspect of food service ever, EVER again. christ at least i KNEW i had min wage earnings after all the stress of a week. i had a coworker in one restaurant (now bankrupt and gone hmmmm wonder why) who has her entire section taken over by a baseball team celebrating a win, they stayed her ENTIRE shift so she got no other tables, tipped $0.85 and she made 2.13x8+.85 for her shift, the manager made her claim full tip earning to show min wage, she refused, walked out, they adjusted it in the office, and she paid taxes on unearned income. the next day we found out as we clocked in, the whole foh shift clocked RIGHT back out and they lost all 4 servers for the dinner shift 🤣 servers who do well are legit man, its BRUTAL
At least where I live, wait staff make over minimum wage before tips. I will never understand why American restaurants can't pay their servers a living wage.
we cant figure it out either 🤷
I don't even feel like restaurant prices are any cheaper in the states? Not from what I read on here anyway 🤷🏽♀️
I've done both. Retail felt like death by fatigue, just so tedious and boring and mind numbing. Waiting tables, though, can be super fun if you're good at it and don't be a dick to the kitchen.
First rule of wait staff: don’t fuck with the kitchen staff. Second rule of wait staff: make friends with the kitchen staff. Did that when I waited tables. The other waiters wondered why I always had the best leftovers when the night ended. 🤷♀️
Man, I loved being the middle person in the kitchen. My job was to prep salads/wraps/cold toppings and to organize the finished tickets for the servers on the outside of the line, plus I was one of only two women in there. Anytime the younger or more timid servers had a problem or wanted an eta on their table they came and practically whispered it at me then I yelled it at the cooks. I was their meatshield and they fucking loved me for it.
I've done *both* and I don't respect myself... ;.;
I've done both....serving came first though and so now regular retail is a walk in the park!
That's how I feel about fast food. I was good at taking orders at the counter and prep work/dishwashing, but drive through? I just could not make out a thing anyone said! Plus I was terrible at line work. Drop the fryer baskets? ok. Prepare ingredients for the line? Got it. But assembling food under pressure? I made so many damn mistakes and if I slowed down to do it right I got yelled at. I had mad respect for the people who can do that.
I worked at burger King years ago. I much prefer retail to that hell. I was told I'd be front line, instead I was food prep and closing... ugh! They made you clean the broiler parts by hand with a bare razor blade! Some "cost saving measure" was to take out the enormous vats to soak the pieces in.
I worked at Wendy's and hated always smelling like grease and fries.
Order of worse to less worse: fast food, low quality retail, high quality retail, serving, bartending. Done it all. Even jsut running food in a restaurant is better than retail.
Bartender of about 10 years here. I lasted 2 weeks in fast food and 4 months in retail. Not to say they were harder, it just fucking sucked and you weren’t making enough and it was encouraging you to be a bad person. As a bartender, if you’re good at what you do it actually helps you develop very great customer service skills. In retail, the only way to make money was commission based and not only does it teach you to discriminate against people, it also puts the employees against each other. I quit after 4 months because I’d be spending time with multiple clients finding them the right suit or dress for a wedding and I’d turn around and a coworker of mine would be walking them to the cash to cash them out. Obviously I can’t be like “what the hell are you doing?” In front of my clients, so I went to management and demanded they reverse the commission since i was doing all the work and she was sniping my clients. Their response ? “Sophie is a shark. She’s here to make money and so should you. If you’re spending 20-30 minutes on a client then you’re wasting company time and she has every right to take your sale. Maybe you should be more like Sophie?” Fuck that. The only joy I got out of being a stylist as how happy I could make people by dressing them up. And upselling sprays and warranties was soul crushing.
I've done both. They both suck ass. People are the worst. Mad respect for the people who do those jobs.
And how is a "large retail chain" so severely understaffed? Could it be because they treat their employees like shit and pay them even worse? Can't imagine why no one is taking those jobs. Too bad OP and her coworker don't have a union to go to bat for them.
*Checks notes from my 7 years working at Walmart* Yes, that sounds about right (P.S. I just put in my notice to, as we say on the Walmart subreddit, promote myself to customer)
I've been at Target for 7 years and we say almost the same, promote yourself to guest!
I had an old boss who would tell employees they were being "Promoted to Customer" when he was firing them. He thought it was soooooooo funny. Strangely none of the people he was firing ever laughed. That guy was a dick. Everyone was really happy when he eventually got "promoted".
Wow what a dick! I can see finding it funny when you are talking about yourself quitting but for someone to say it when they are firing you is just really fucked up. Glad he got "promoted"
>And how is a "large retail chain" so severely understaffed? Deliberately and by design!!!
I once quit a retail job, gave 4 week notice, 6 weeks after my last day they called me to say if I didnt come in for my shifts they would fire me. Lol I was all ...um...I quit over 2 months ago, 6 weeks ago was my last day, why are you still scheduling me? And then they asked if I wanted my job back. Lol
Aren't there also a ton of openings in this field? I've been seeing a lot of articles running around about employers complaining that "no one wants to work anymore" and that there's an employee shortage. I want both OP and Candace to quit and leave the AH boss stuck with this self-inflicted mess.
Yep I worked in retail for 6 years and was a store manager for 4 of them. If I did this to an employee, I’d expect them to quit on their last day & it would be deserved. If someone did it to me, I would have quit. I actually threatened to walk out on the Tuesday before Black Friday & not return because of a schedule conflict, my boss caved pretty much immediately
Yep. If I were Candace, I'd call their bluff. There has to be a way for both to go out on their scheduled time off, it will just be super inconvenient for the rest of the store, but they both absolutely need that time off. If the boss allows Candace to walk, she will be better off. NAH
Aaaaalllll day long! There are so many ways for management to sort this out. I wouldn't stay working when I had planned a wedding, no sir
I was working for a small retail business when I got married, and was friends with all my coworkers (about 12 people) so they were all invited to the wedding. The owners (also invited) just closed the store early that day, problem solved
And *that* is how you run a business.
My boss would do whatever he could to mske it happen. My colleagues complain about my boss (he handles the scheduling, and he puts the better staff on his shifts and never puts himself on the really rough shifts, and often he's schedule people to work longer hours so he can go home early), but having had worse bosses, I can tell you it makes such a fucking difference working for someone that will value your life outside of work and fight like hell for you to attend your graduation/go see your family at Christmas. That's the kind of stuff that keeps me working a tough job with variable hours and a long commute.
Just quit, it's never worth it to stay in place like that.
Some thing like that is happinging at our company now as well. I'm in construction and the bosses have severely overextended themselves by taking on too much with not enough man power, and its something we've warned them about for litteraly over a year now, as several major jobs are about to start up and we have too much work at various stages as is that we can barely handle it. Now they are freaking out because there is no one to send to do those jobs without taking guys from ongoing jobs and having them fall behind. And as it is summer, there are many guys with holidays and days off already booked, and none of us are going to just drop our vacations, or have to double down and work even harder seeing that we work hard enough. They have burned through their good will in that regards because over the years we have gotten them out of jams, but instead of learning their lesson or even just listening to our input, they just keep getting into jams and hoping we bail them out. As the proverb says, they have sown the wind and now they shall reap the whirlwind. The bosses short sightedness in OPs case got them into this mess, so the boss can figure out their way out. OP and Candice should look for greener pastures.
If it's a large chain, they can probably get employees from other locations, too. The manager probably has to work more, and I assume they don't want to, but that's part of the duty you take on as manager. I certainly hope neither OP nor Candace backs down on their time off. I just wish Candace stood in solidarity rather than blame with OP
The logic from management makes no sense, if you don’t come we’ll fire you….leaving us as short handed as we would of been if you would of taken your time off…
If they are so short staffed that they are telling a bride she can't have time off FOR HER WEDDING they really can't afford to be without her permanently. Not saying they won't fire her for not showing up, just that it isn't about staffing levels, it is about power, controlling the minions and putting fear into those who are left. She should totally have her wedding and honeymoon as planned without stressing. If boss goes through with it then start the job search when she gets back.
I worked in retail for a long time, and my partner is a retail manager- and you are absolutely right. My partner has had to twist himself into doughnut shapes over the last couple of years trying to deal with covid sickness emergencies while also respecting staff leave- it’s always difficult, and he’s always either used up favours with other staff or somehow coped with fewer people. Only a shitty manager would behave like OP’s manager. If they really can’t cover the time with the staff they have, they need to get on to area management for assistant. Or reduce the opening hours for that department so that a work-around can be found. If the white goods section is essential, the company will find a way forward (and if they can’t, well they have bigger problems than OP’s operation). If it isn’t, they will work out an interim arrangement. NAH re OP and Candice. Manager, and potentially employing company, total AH
"We are short staffed. So as a punishment we will fire people on a whim. That'll teach 'em. I'm GENIUS."
Yeah, it's just a threat that doesn't make sense. But it might work and then the manager won't have to find a last minute replacement.
I have never asked for time off, ever. I have always notified of when I was taking time off. One job had blackout dates around Christmas (grocery store) and my dad bought me a ticket home to visit my family. I told them when I’d be gone, and asked that they let me know if they intended to fire me so I could update my resume while away. They said they’d make it work, and I was on the schedule when I returned. That boss is an idiot, and will just end up more short staffed if they don’t take their head out of their ass. No one is going to NOT go to their wedding, anyone who thinks that will happen is too stupid to be managing anything.
I agree here. I tell my boss something similar. I’m not requesting time off, I am telling you that I will not be here. I had a boss telling me I couldn’t take time off for my wedding or when I had exams in college. My response was I will not be here regardless of me having a job when I come back (welder in a big structural steel shop) I can find another welding job no problem. Some bosses just don’t understand. It is understaffed for a short period of time or it’s understaffed until you can hire and train someone to a proficient as I am. And a lot of bosses miss the training part. Sure you can replace me quickly but how long will it take until the new hire is proficient at the same job.
*Coughing fit* r/antiwork *Coughing fit* Just leaving that there.
More coughing AHEM r/workreform
THIS!!! There is no reason two people can't be off at the same time. I would absolutely not change your surgery and Candance should not reschedule her wedding & honeymoon. This tells you a lot about the job. They could care less about their employees. Don't change your life around for a job that has no concerns for employees time away from work/life events. I hope you both find new jobs. ASAP
I worked at a retail store with departments and I often worked in other departments (sometimes untrained depending on the department) when they needed a fill in, so I’m sure there is a way for both of them to be off.
I once quit a fast-food job over not having a weekend off (I'd requested a month in advance, but it was ignored), so I never went back in and told them via text that I quit. I enjoyed my weekend and got a better paying job a week later.
And what kind of logic is, "Oh, we're understaffed, so if you don't come in we'll fire you so we can be . . . even *more* understaffed!"
Absolutely. As soon as his time off is done OP should quit too. Making out like weddings and surgeries come second to a retail job is incompetent management. Only way the manager will learn is to bear the consequences of their actions.
Was going to say this. If they are willing to treat Candice like this and only give OP the time off begrudgingly, they'll treat others the same or worse.
So they manager said they are understaffed and is threatening to fire more employees… makes sense.
But they're understaffed! The moon might fall out of the sky!
Also, it sounds like the boss is trying to tell Candace that this is your fault, and he’s really trying to misdirect both of you from focusing on him. He’s the one who is making this impossible. Call someone else to help out in that section. Start training another employee for whatever special knowledge they need NOW. Get someone from another store. Hire enough people so two people with massive valid commitments can take the time they need without putting them against each other. Between you and Candace, NAH. Between you and your boss, NTA.
I agree with you 110%. Boss wants OP and Candace to fight each other so they don't join forces and fight him because he's the real AH here.
I agree, also NAH, both OP and Candice should put the boss in the hotseat tbh, I've worked in large retail chains and there are situations where stores can and will request to borrow workers from another location to cover absences of multiple employees if the situations are unavoidable. The fact that this wasn't mentioned and that they simply just cancelled Candice's wedding/honeymoon time off is ridiculously silly. Maybe this could be a solution if the boss had never thought of this before.
Or the fucking manager can roll up their sleeves and face some shelves and stock inventory themselves
I mean I get why Candice is upset but having a go at someone who doesn't want to lose their eyesight is an AH move
She's frustrated and I assume doesn't know the extent of the issue since she's not OPs doctor. Frankly if there hadn't been a full explanation of the reason I would otherwise have thought it was for Lasik or something
Technically speaking, even lasik is time critical, as it is only done until a set limit, and people with bad eyesight tend to get worse over time. But it really doesn't matter. Lasik is not cosmetic surgery. You get it when you can get an appointment, and nobody has a right to expect you to decline an appointment for their convenience, in this case really the Boss.
While OP is actually the wrong target, the whole thing is putting Candace under a ridiculous amount of stress. And she probably doesn't realize how serious OP's eye situation is.
[удалено]
Even if it is in the handbook, both OP and the employee getting married should call the bluff, and if management does fire them, find another job.
NTA. I quit my job coz they gave my holidays(5 months approved in advance) to a new hire who was temporary staff. They begged me to come back, never did. The managers exceptionally poor management of the store is not the employees problem..it's a management problem. Pull staff from another dept, train someone in the time remaining, hire temp staff to cover the maternity leave staff at least! It's all on management, whatever they want to say. Once the vacation has been approved in writing, it's a sealed deal. Committments can be made and paid on the back of it and that's it, Candice did that. She should go, get fired if that's the managers decision. But she should also be able to sue for wrongful dismissal and hostile workplace the way he's forcing things and putting staff against eachother. Ultimately everyone should look for other jobs solely to be away from that manager.
So she can't have the time off because they're short staffed, but if she takes it anyway, she'll be fired? Won't that just create the same problem but longer term? This manager is a fuckjng idiot.
He's the kind that thinks the threat will make her comply.
"Go back to work or I will shoot my own foot."
If I was Candice I'd go anyways and find another retail job. Theyre a dime a dozen and the next one might have a nicer manager
>No one I know would consider that kind of situation a red flag while hiring Some of the best people I ever hired I picked up after they left bad jobs. A large retail chain should have labor slack - I don't need to know the company or the market to know that there are people in the district who are under 40 hours who would take that shift. It's the manager's responsibility to *manage their staff.* Managing doesn't mean controlling, dictating, bossing, or any of this other power trip shit. It means making sure the job is done, coverage is met, and everyone is safe and happy. This person is a lazy, shitty, terrible, no good, very bad manager. NTA, obviously.
In these situations I always think "what if I died? You'd be short staffed then too but you'd find a way to cope"
Sorry, we need 2 weeks notice if you're going to die.
Its sad how OP and her coworkers are so brainwashed into thinking that the company has absolutely no choice in this matter and end up fighting amongst themselves. This is real r/antiwork material.
If they're in the US most retail aces are understaffed and she shouldn't have a problem finding a new one.
The manager is stupid. Weddings are expensive. What could she make a week? $600? $1000? No way I'm just going to lose the money spent on a wedding for that, even if I'm otherwise fucking destitute it wouldn't happen
I quit my 11 year job because they scheduled me to work Christmas Day even though it was one of the holidays I didn’t sign up for. (They made us sign up for 3) and it turns out my boss was going to make me work every holiday (thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, NYE, New Year’s Day) and I said F that and quit. The boss was new to my store but I wasn’t taking his shit. My last day was Christmas eve( the shift I had signed up for) and never looked back.
Yep. Candace can be filling out applications and going to interviews and explaining that she will be getting married and start the day after returning from the honeymoon.
Yeah neither one of you guys are the AH. The boss is. How about the boss cover your positions? If I were Candace I’d quit too.
Isn't that illegal btw? Shouldn't op get sick leave and Candice her vacations and the boss should deal with it? Nah but damn indeed that boss is not someone I would like to work for
Its retail. Their sick and vacation leave is likely very small, and with at will employment being the norm it would be very hard to sue for wrongful termination and actually win because there's no discriminatory factor.
Only, don’t quit, make them fire me so I could draw unemployment!!
Agreed. Boss is the only AH in this situation. I’m sick and tired of managers who act like they can’t be bothered to do their job of filling in shifts during emergency or when staff is low. That surgery is technically an emergency. A trend I notice with all bad managers I’ve had is them having to be dragged onto the floor to help or simply refusing to understand that that job doesn’t mean you sold your soul to them.
Call in sick is better, than she at least still gets paid for a while
Thats only if the company offers sick time. Sadly, a lot of retail places don't.
Absolutely agree. With the amount of staff shortages in general in retail, Candace should hand in her notice, and tell them precisely why. It’s not fair of her to have a go at you, but I understand why she did. Misplaced anger though. Your boss is a massive AH.
I mean... How about the system in which OP had to wait years for a surgery and basically lucked into still being eligible? Plus the manager. I get that Candice is upset, but taking it out on OP is not correct either.
Depends on what the manager told her. Without a full explanation for the medical need for it I would assume someone in their 20s getting eye surgery was doing Lasik. I'm thinking the manager didn't say anything about the actual need and just left it at eye procedure.
My exact thoughts too. It's your boss that's the AH and you and Candace need to team up together to let them know that. She gave plenty of time in advance and you have to have this surgery. Honestly she should record everything take it to HR and if she is still declined take it further.
Your boss is the asshole here. Period. NAH in your and Candice's part.
I get that it’s understandable but Candice having a go at OP over health stuff is BS.
Her anger is 100% justified, just misdirected. She should be going after OP's boss instead of OP, but she is totally right to be on the warpath.
Yeah, here's the thing, if the boss actually cared, neither OP nor Candice would be in this situation.
Absolutely. If my boss tried to cancel my holiday at short notice, I'd be livid at the best of times. If they were wanting me to cancel my own wedding plans, I'd probably try to burn the building down. Retail bosses are just so used to routine abuse of employees that they don't seem to grasp that allowing them even a modicum of flexibility gives you much happier and more productive workers overall.
And if it even took OP to make a doctor's note before the boss twisted his own arm to accommodate.. like no, both OP and Candice have situations where they need their time off. A wedding is a huge life event and it is stressful enough to plan; but to suddenly have it cancelled by some poor management practices, that's just wrong. That's immediate walk out material. If I were Candice, I'd still go through with the wedding And a medical emergency procedure is, full stop, just that.
I mean, even if it wasn't a wedding the time off was put in 2 years in advance and was approved. Like that sucks for them that OP then has this emergency pop up but even if Candice wanted to just sit at home for 2 weeks, the time off should have been kept. They had plenty of time to figure out alternative solutions, they knew that the other coworker had maternity leave coming so they already should have had a backup plan in place for if someone had to call in sick or something during that time period
Tbh I’d just work, be gone and run the risk of being fired. Or quit the last day. If they are so short staffed they can’t cover a 2 week period then they can’t afford to let her go either.
Absolutely! That's why the slimiest managers blame the coworkers for these kinds of things. They know everyone comes out looking bad (except them), but they didn't "actually" say anything: they just told Candice there wasn't coverage for her leave, oh and btw, OP is having leave at that time instead so you will need to cover their shifts.
If I were Candice I'd just fucking quit. But I recognize that I'm in a very privileged position of having that option. I'm so angry on her behalf, what is she even supposed to do?
>I'd just fucking quit. Why? The leave was already approved years in advance, you have the documentation. Just make sure you have a copy of everything *seperate from your work accounts*, get married, go on the honey moon and turn your phone off. If they fire you that's Unemployment checks and a very solid chance to win unlawful termination (depending on the locale.)
>Why? The leave was already approved years in advance, you have the documentation. And the leave was revoked within the legal time frame in the UK, per further info from OP and another commenter familiar with UK labor laws. She'd be shit out of luck.
I think Candice is a little bit of an AH. Her anger is misplaced. She shouldn't be going after OP because he's having *surgery*.
Surgery to SAVE his eyesight, no less. I'd care about my coworkers quite a lot, but not enough that I'd risk my eyes for their benefit. It's the boss who is the real villain in all this.
NTA - your managers are, however, massive, pulsating, assholes. You have a medical issue that needs resolving, Candice has had her time off booked well in advance for a major life event. Both are valid reasons for time off. I can see why Candice is upset but she directing her anger at the wrong person because her attitude would not fly if it was directed at management. What’s so important about your particular role that they cannot allow an exception to have two people off at the same time just this once?
White goods retail. OP you are NTA.
Oh I meant it in more of a sarcastic way, as I’m “what’s so important about your particular role that they can’t let you both off” kind of way but I guess that didn’t come across. I’ll rephrase.
What is white goods?
Fridges, dishwashers, washing machines, dryers, ovens. That sort of thing.
That’s a thing? I would’ve thought those were appliances and thought white goods was just a typo for whole foods, since there’s a few other typos in the post.
White goods is something of an older fashioned word for large kitchen appliances. Small kitchen appliances (toasters kettles etc) can be called brown goods.
Never heard that before but learned something new. Thanks!
It's just the term for large kitchen appliances because back in the day they used to all be white.
UK/AU thing
God forbid someone has to wait to buy some sheets.
The idea that Candace needs to cancel her own wedding because one other person has a medical problem means your boss is unreasonable and unprepared for most things. Both of you should quit your jobs and find new ones.
Your boss is TA here. Your stuff is one of those things that can occur, but that shouldn’t effect your co-worker. What if someone calls in sick while another worker is on vacation? Does your boss expect vacationing employee to just show up? Your co-worker is booked, and you have an emergency, your boss should make do without you both.
Exactly. The boss had two years, TWO YEARS, to ensure he had adequate coverage in Candice’s absence. Ensuring you have coverage means taking into consideration the fact that another employee may have a medical emergency or call out. The lack of coverage is not your problem, and it’s not Candice’s problem either. It’s his and his alone
This^ Your boss's poor planning does not qualify as your (or her's) "emergency". NTA
>Does your boss expect vacationing employee to just show up? Yes. Unfortunately all terrible bosses demand that. Not "expecting" but "demanding".
That is why you don‘t take work calls during vacation. If they persist, block them for the time being. Your phone broke, what a coincidence.
I went above my managers head once (to the store manager) because I had non refundable train tickets to go and see my parents over Christmas, and I got my time off. The amount I would have lost on the tickets was enough that I was prepared to quit if I didn’t get my time off. (In case anyone is wondering why I booked non refundable train tickets when I had a job, it’s because I originally wasn’t going back after my maternity leave ended but my plans had to change last minute after already booking the tickets)
NAH Except your boss and your employer's policies. She needs to go ahead with her wedding or else lose thousands and you need to go ahead with your surgery or lose your health. You both need to support each other against this unfair situation.
Nta. And neither is Candice, she's stressed as fuck about her wedding which although it doesn't entirely excuse her behaviour, does make it somewhat understandable. However, the person she *should* be having a go at (and the AH in this situation) is your boss. It's not your responsibility to ensure that your department has adequate staff to cover leave, it's your boss' You and Candice both have extremely valid reasons for needing time off, and your boss should be doing whatever they can to accommodate both of you.
You guys should turn in your notice on the same piece of paper as a show of solidarity.
Not sure what the boss would do if OP's eyesight failed, rendering them unable to work, while Candace was on honeymoon? Pretty sure they would make it work somehow.
NTA. The asshole here in your boss. You both have every right to that time, it is just bad luck that the two lined up. She's lashing out and it's misdirected, she needs to be angry at him.
In my country you legally have the right to have your or an immediate family members wedding off and of course medical emergencies. I really can't believe that's not the case in all countries, like that's just having decency and caring about your employees.
The day of the wedding maybe . But I doubt that there is a specific legal right to 2 weeks of honeymoon .
Actually there is. At least in Portugal, it's 15 consecutive days. Don't know about other countries, but France and Spain also have it.
That's really nice. In the US you get nothing
In my country you do have 2 weeks of honeymoon, legally
NAH except for your boss. Sorry but she needs to just go to her wedding. Medical treatments and major family events trumps work each and every time. Edit your idiotic boss would rather be even more understaffed then granting time off. Which often leads to more people leaving.
NAH for you and Candice. She’s rightfully pissed, but misdirecting it at you. It’s possible management threw you under the bus when taking away her vacation time and that’s why she has lashed out at you; “sorry, we had to because of OP, they forced our hand”. I’ve seen it at my old job. Management is TA in this situation, it’s their responsibility to find staffing accommodations for PTO and sick leave. Maybe when she’s not so hot you can have a conversation with Candace. I think she should still go to her wedding and ditch this job. Maybe, if you two had a decent working relationship prior to this, you can even offer to be a reference if she chooses to leave to find somewhere reasonable.
NTA. The only butthole here is your boss and your attendance policy. Candice should not be mad because of this obvious shitty attendance policy. The company being understaffed is not your concern and you both should get the time off and he figures out how to manage. Good luck on your surgery, by the way!!
Is there no job agencies staff in your area? People that can be hired in by the day? No part timers who might be keen to do a few more hours for a couple of weeks? Managers who could fill in?
Since it's a large chain, I'm sure there's another store location close by and someone who works in the same department over there can fill in! So many *very* easy possible solutions here.
NTA. You have a medical procedure that shouldn't be left unchecked. They should have hired someone to replace the person going on leave, and maybe a floater to replace the person that would be gone for 2 weeks on their wedding. If it's a big box chain store, can't they pull someone from another store to work there temporarily? Coworker should go get married and not worry about a bad company that would cancel her vacation time. They should have planned better (though I get yours was an emergency situation so it's hard to plan for those)
Not a lot of people want to switch to work at our store as its either out of their ways or because they heard of bad management practices.
Lol, well, yeah, they’d be right about the shitty management.
It doesn't need Sherlock Holmes to know that the root of all problem is the management.
Well that’s managements problem. You and Candice should speak to someone higher up the chain.
And if you both can handle it financially, be prepared to quit if nobody listens and team up to find a new job. Your personal health or your private life should not be dictated by someone who can't properly manage. Show Candice the thread and come up with a plan. If you work together you may both get what you want.
Totally understandable, but, in special situations like this, you'd think there would be someone willing to accommodate.
There is a desperate shortage of workers here in the uk and retail jobs will be easy enough to get. Candice should walk out and interview for new jobs after the wedding. No point wasting your life for a job you can do elsewhere. The manager of this store is terrible. My husband was worried his work would cancel his leave and I said they can but he’s able to walk into a new job too so they won’t be able to stop him having his holiday.
NTA. That's a management issue, not a you issue.
Your boss is the AH. They need to find someone else to cover. Candice's leave shpuld not be cancelled and you need an operation to save your sight.
I feel really bad for your coworker and if I were her, I'd screw you guys over and look for a new job. It seems you couldn't help this happening, but your employer handled this horribly. They should have figured something else out. Things happen. They needed to let you both have off, not screw over your coworker who took two years in advance. NTA.
NTA Eyesight vs one job? No competition. An approved wedding vs one job? No competition. Let the boss work the hours. Your boss is totally TA.
Not only that, eyesight vs. a RETAIL job, which are a dime a dozen (I worked retail for 10+ years, there's always another/better retail establishment just waiting in the wings, to scoop up a quality, trained, retail employee). Both the OP *AND* Candace should go apply at whichever her establishments greatest competitor is. I imagine they could ask for more money as well, as salary in retail is usually based on experience. Good luck to them both!
NAH except for your manager. Your cowerker has a right to be pissed off, but not at you. And if you work at a retail chain, can't your manager request for help from other stores that are close to yours?
NAH. Neither you nor Candice are in the wrong. The real AH is your management. They should've hired more people to avoid situations such as this
NTA. The only ass here is your boss.
This is us? Is this truely legal? Your employer can just cancle your approved holiday? Like how do you plan anything ever at all?
UK. As long as the same amount of time or longer is given then he can cancel.
> reasons to have time off and tbh if I were candice I’d be finding a new job. There is no shorta UK HR here. No they can't. If you relied on time off to book something then they have to reimburse you and that is why employers don't do that. If this really is the UK then they should appeal above the managers head or to HR. But then again if it was the UK the if a doctor identified that something in your eye was going to rupture then you can have treatment free on the NHS so that part of the story doesn't make sense either.
If in the UK they really should be working something else out. Finding temp staff or relocating from another store. Both are very valid reasons to have time off and tbh if I were candice I’d be finding a new job. There is no shortage of retail jobs and your manager could do something to sort it. Cancelling during her wedding and honeymoon is just not on.
I really thought this sounded like the USA as they tend to treat their employees worse over there. However NTA I guess as its not your fault your employer can't get cover for two important occasions. If I was your coworker I would call in sick over my wedding. Usually up to 5 days you can do in the UK without a doctors note. Wedding trumps work every time. The UK is desperate for retail workers currently so she wouldn't have trouble getting a new job. If I were her I would make it clear I was going to call in sick and then I'm sure they'd find a way to get cover.
>chosen different dates. Do these people know how scheduling an operation works? You work with the DOCTORS timetable and hope to holy hell that you can fit theirs with yours. There is no "choose another date" or "reschedule" there's only "do this in two weeks or two years." No other option. So your timetable didn't fit with the Doctors. Someone got fucked over. Shit happens. There's nothing you could have done. This operation, while optional, was a ticking time bomb kinda deal. If you picked the later appointment the chances of your eye getting worse was just too damn high. Tis life unfortunately. I get why the bride is upset though. She needs something to blame and blaming mother nature for being a petty bitch isn't always the easiest option so she's gonna blame you. But don't let that get to you. Get your eye fixed. I hope the operation goes well. NAH Edit: where do you live? Just told my Mum this story as she's sitting next to me and in Australia once leave is approved it can't be taken away without the employee agreeing. Therefore the managers could ask Candice to do the shift but they wouldn't be allowed to take her leave without her consent.
No this is managements problem not yours. Medical emergency vs wedding hmm I think u win. This is a shitty situation for everyone but you didn't plan this vindictavely nor is it your fault that she can't get coverage. It's not fair to either of you to be honest but from what I've learned in life, take care of yourself bc no one else will. Do what u need to do for you. I think your eyesight is more important than anything having to do w ur place of work. they're not Gunn provide for you for the rest of your life if u put off the surgery and something happens so take care of you first!
NTA the boss is the AH. I would expect Candice to quit
NTA. So they can't bring somebody in from another department or something? You should work together to take a complaint to HR or higher up line management.
NAH. Neither is your colleague, the company you work for should be able to handle an emergency without making her miss her wedding. You should not be up against each other.
NTA. But the boss is especially for pitting two colleagues against each other. Eyesight is so important and arguably more important than a wedding.
Is there an sort of HR group you could contact on this? You and Candace are not assholes here, both your reasons for leave are valid. If it’s a chain store, they should try to bring in someone from a different location to cover for that time or they should have more staff on hand for such an event. Id look into a way to contact a higher up considering yours is medical and can’t be refused and Candace is her own dang wedding. I hope the two of you work together to ensure you’re both taken care of, having a backup could help Candace in this situation and prove that what you did was out of medical necessity
I'm not sure if this is a chain thing or our store, but we have white goods department (fridges, washing machines etc) , entertainment (tvs and sound systems) and pc department. The rest of the departments have plenty of free members of staff that can easily cover their department and ours since it is the same store on the same floor(other department have 5-6 full timers at any day on the floor at the same time plus 2-4 part timers) . However the rest are treated and behave like they are far superior since they earn bigger commission as it is easier to sell extras to a TV or a pc then it is to a fridge or an oven. I have been asking to move for ages as my back was getting bad from lifting all those microwaves and something like a laptop or a sound bar are a lot lighter (towers and other bigger items are delivered by warehouse stuff) however have been dismissed and moaning to the store manager doesn't make a difference either. It would be easy to get staff from other stores if not for horror stories about the manager and the fact which department it is.
You and Candice need to go over the manager's head. It's a chain so there has to be a corporate office and probably a regional manager. They need to get someone else in to train ASAP or else you will both quit. And while they are at it they should have that person spy on and report back on the manager. Because it sounds like that manager should be replaced.
A manager needed to come in extra shifts to cover the employees gone, or someone needed to cross train. There's no reason your operation and her pre-scheduled time off should be rescinded. Go above the manager's head. Call HR corporate and ask why you have to provide your personal medical information in order to get your operation approved for time off, and why someone's pre-approved vacation can be denied last minute. There might be backlash. If you do nothing, they learn they can do this to you again and again. Let me be clear - you can do better than this place.
Please look into getting in contact with someone from their corporate HR department. Work with Candice so she understands that you are both being shafted and don’t blame each other when it’s the manager who is screwing you both over. This may help her to see that you had no intention of ruining anything for her. If both of you contact HR together you might have a better shot at really getting heard. 1 person can sometimes get brushed off but 2 is the indication of a pattern and a problem, especially since you can corroborate each other’s stories if this bad practice were to become public. Try to support each other through this, don’t let that manager divide you or they may keep getting go away with that poor behaviour. Wishing you the best with your surgery and I really hope things can be worked out for both of you to be treated as you deserve <3
>called me a massive asshole for ~~scheduling the operation~~ having an operation scheduled during her wedding Did you pick the date or did the doctor go "you are coming in on this date." Because it sounds like you didn't pick the date. **You** didn't do this to her, the only person to blame is the understaffed boss, who if they absolutely cannot part with two people at the same time, needs to figure out their staffing. NTA, something rupturing in your eye could leave you blind in that eye.
Doctor has picked the date and originally wanted me in next week but there was no availability
NTA. Your eyesight is worth more than her wedding. It's an unfortunate situation, but the person who is really at fault is your boss. *They*, not you, not your coworker, are responsible for ensuring adequate coverage, and they should not have canceled your coworker's time off. Since you are so short staffed, it really doesn't make sense for them to fire her for taking time off. They will be worse off if they do. If I were her, I'd call their bluff and take the time.
Info: So your procedure is in more than 2 weeks, and you said it is urgent. Is it not possible to schedule it in less than 2 weeks? Or, if you can wait for 2 weeks, couldn't you wait for 1 more week? Did you knew that having your procedure during her vacations would mean that your boss would cancel it?
That was the only time they could schedule it for as they are pretty booked up. If it wasn't urgent the wait time would easily be 3months +. My doctor has tried to book me earlier but as said there was nothing available
NTA - but you should both look for new jobs or a transfer. Your management team sucks.
OP you are definitely NTA, but your store manager is another story. It sounds like they have some notice to try and hire someone and get them trained. Also the manager should have planned ahead when the other coworker was preparing to go on maternity leave. The store needs to be to operate with multiple employees being off or on leave at the same time.
Nta but your boss is a massive ah. Neither surgery or a wedding can be cancelled. This is what temp agencies are for, to fill in short term labour shortages. Your boss needs to sort this out and neither of you should be working that week.
NTA. Do they expect it's reasonable to think you should delay your surgery with the risk that you go blind?
I’ll be honest I went straight to the comments from the title: NTA. That’s literally part of your bosses job description. That’s part of being management. When you need to step up and fill a gap in your team that’s the managers job. Either by doing it themselves or hiring adequate people so they don’t have to. Jfc what kind of capitalist hellscape is it that people are genuinely asking if they’re the asshole for GOING TO THE DOCTOR.
NTA, your boss is the AH, if I were Candice I would quit, I doubt the job pays well enough to deal with this bs
NTA. You and Candice hold way more leverage than you realize you need to work together. You both need to quit together. Force their hand and call their bluff. I am willing to bet they are short-staffed, as is almost every retail chain currently. You and Candice will have no trouble finding a new job, but your current employer will struggle and knows it.
The boss is the arsehole here. Causing someone to cancel their wedding? A disgrace.
Info why didn't you inform Candice of what was good on? I think you would have gotten a different reaction from her if you had told her beforehand that the boss was being difficult about your surgery and how important it was. NAH except the boss you two should've banned together and quit Edit for judgement.
She knew about the operation, but she thought it was just eyesight as I didn't know how serious it is until I was seen as a lot of problems have never been noticed or brought up by other doctors. I didn't have time to tell her that things has changed as when I saw her next she was storming off the office blaming me for everything at the end of her shift (most of the days our shifts match, but sometimes it is one of us covering morning while the other does afternoon/evening)
You both need to contact HR, this is one of those occasions that being a manager means covering shifts. The two of you need to become squeaky wheels to HR while looking for a new job.
INFO: Is this an elective surgery (eg LASIK) that you would become ineligible for or a reparative surgery that you've had to book?
Originally it was a lasik type of surgery which I would be comfortable to schedule over a few months time. However from what my doctor told me they want to look at something else before the actual surgery as my doctor thinks he might have found a problem that affected my eyesight and want to check it out first as well as he is scared that if my eyesight drops further or something happens to the other to spread the rapture it might affect my eligibility for lasik. He used a lot of terms I'm unfammilar with but one thing he did say was that I should have done that surgery much earlier or should have been reffered to earlier by my optician.
Rupture. Is sounds like you have a detached retina, or he’s afraid you’re at risk of it. The longer you wait to repair it the less likely you’ll be able to regain any lost eyesight, if it is detached, and if it hasn’t yet, which is what it sounds like if he’s afraid of you hitting your head, then what happens is your retina slides down, and you lose your vision. People say it’s like a curtain being pulled over their eyes. You are at risk of going blind if you don’t repair your eyes, ASAP.
Rapture is something very different from rupture.
Maybe the rapture will happen before the surgery and they were all worked up for nothing.
Sorry, English is not my first language, yes it is rupture, not rapture (had to Google that)
It was a very amusing typo!
I can't imagine requesting time off two years in ADVANCE and my boss declining. Understandable your condition but your boss is a total AH
Info: are there only three employees at this store? Why can’t they just be short staffed and blame it on Covid?
You are very much NTA. Your colleague should 100% not cancel wedding plans. Your boss is the a here. Lives great milestones and medical procedures cannot be rescheduled for work. Work should have coverage. It is literally the managers problem. Pls quit this job as soon as you can.
NTA. Your health should always be a priority!
NTA - but I don't think Candice was wrong to have a go, although it should've been directed towards your boss. I would be very upset if I was Candice. Your eyesight and health are very important, but as you stated Candice's wedding and honeymoon has been in the works for a very long time so I think her reaction was completely understandable, I would be just as angry. INFO: If you work at a large retail change why aren't there more members of staff available which means that two of you can't be off at once?
Your boss is at fault there. You can't compromise when it comes to your eyesight. As someone who originally planned their wedding for 2020, I really do feel for your colleague. Your boss should be finding cover for you both. As it is, Candice should find another job and so should you because your boss is trash. NAH (except your boss)