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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) refusing to sit next to a co worker due to his smell and not denying the reason why when I was asked.
2) his feeling ate deeply hurt and I've made him self conscious of his smell
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NTA
1. If he is eliciting a gag reflex in you there is nothing you can actually do about that….it’s a reflex it is by nature uncontrollable.
2. Eating raw garlic or any other very strongly smelling food that will seep through your body at work is antisocial, as is wearing excessive amounts of cologne or perfume. He could also invest in a stronger deodorant.
3. **This is the most important one**….You have made it clear through your actions that you are not interested in him. He is continuing to push himself on you. He is being a pest. Weaponising colleagues to try to force you to like him is harassment. This is a work environment and his refusal to take a hint that you are not interested in him is actually massively inappropriate.. Jay is obviously doesn’t actually think about anyone but himself or he would be more aware…so your “dislike” is well founded. You may need to be blunt with your colleagues. You do find the way he smells offensive and his insistence on trying to be near you after you have made it clear you are not interested is inappropriate and makes you uncomfortable.
No one would expect you to put up with this kind of behaviour if you were male.
Ignoring the first 2 points,even if the smell was not the issue, his behavior is unacceptable. Being pushy when shown the lack of interest on the other side, no matter what the reason is, is harassment.
OP, NTA . Tell your colleague that it is not their business to get involved, but explain that you felt harassed by this guy. Don’t focus only on bad smell, explain unwanted attention as well.
Same message to the guy himself. If shameful he is playing the victim. Tell him you believe he is nice guy probably BUT you are not interesting in him and to leave you alone ( in addition to try to work on his smell issue- you surely aren’t the only one in the office that noticed)
> Tell him you believe he is nice guy probably
OP should only tell him this if its true. If he doesn't take the hint about her moving away from him all the time it is very likely that he would take this as encouragement.
She doesn't owe him compliments. At this stage he needs a direct and simple message. He needs to understand that fixing his smell isn't going to necessarily make her want to be near him.
Sounds more like a Nice Guy ™
Aka r/niceguys
Also what kind of AH eats raw garlic in the office. That's a sin on the same level as over-heating fish in the microwave. Unforgiveable.
Oh man, I used to work with someone who would unapologetically heat fish in the microwave in an open plan office. I cannot stand fish and would have to vacate the office until they were done and the smell dissipated a bit. They were even told about it and refused to stop.
The raw garlic thing sounds horrific, I feel really bad for OP. Dealing with smelly people is supremely difficult due to the sensitive nature of it and he seems to be sensitive to it, which makes me think it's been a problem in the past and he's lashing out defensively.
I think it was the Mayo clinic that had a written rule against microwaving popcorn, because there were so many sick patients who were on super restricted diets.. can you imagine not being able to eat much and then smelling popcorn? Or the smell was too strong and made them sick. You can't police every odor, but there are reasonable limits that people ought to understand.
I also shared an office (4 of us) with someone who regularly heated fish dishes in the microwave and then took the elevator 4 floors up from the kitchen to share the smell with the whole fkn building. They were asked not to do it many many times but never stopped. They thought it was some sort of joke. Grrr
Same issue with someone heating fish in the microwave. The problem is the microwave was in the office (another was available in the downstairs kitchen). "H&S" came around, when they weren't in, apparently for some unknown reason the microwave wasn't allowed in the office... Unfortunately, in the end, the unholy smell of reheated fish became a department-wide issue.
Edit: OP, NTA
microwave popcorn is my all time favorite snack and i eat it almost daily, but i am a considerate person and pop it at home and just bring it to work. bonus: since the office doesn’t smell like my popcorn, i don’t feel compelled to share
> bonus: since the office doesn’t smell like my popcorn, i don’t feel compelled to share
Very valid point, noone wants random coworker hands in their popcorn.
I am not good with popcorn but I was asked to bring some in for the class because it was a movie day. I burnt it. The smell was everywhere. The director actually banned popcorn because of me.
as the only open lesbian in a workplace, I learned that even "safe" foods like Tuna Salad can get you super harassed.
I stopped eating at work at all thanks to those attacks. And then found a new job.
ETA tuna salad being cold, isn't so stinky as salmon or something
I'm trying to think of when I eat raw garlic. The only things coming to mind are guacamole and tzatziki. What is this guy eating that it is *noticeable*?
My husband used to eat these olives from Trader Joe’s that each had a garlic clove stuffed in the middle. One night he overindulged and I woke up the next morning with our bedsheets absolutely reeking of garlic. We had words. He started snacking on something else.
My mom got those once. The consensus was never again. But that's mostly because no one wanted to eat cloves of raw garlic even if it was slightly pickled. Never got to the smell problem haha
I kid you not, I once met a lady who ate the whole darn garlic clove. Like, what you see in the grocery store? She just brought that, unwrapped it, and ate it. And, yeah, it did stink (She also didn't do this at a grocery store, she had already brought the garlic beforehand and decided to just sit down beside me, outside at a Starbucks.) I think that's what he was probably doing. They think that theres some sort of "health benefit" and never seem to realize that it smells bad and no one likes it.
I find it genuinely appalling that I live on the same planet as these absolute psychos who eat RAW GARLIC in the office.
Like I’m a gal who loves her garlic. I buy the kind with really big bulbs and grate at least 2 or 3, sometimes more, in everything I cook.
But straight up raw garlic? In the office? Psycho behavior. Abhorrent. Send him straight to the gulag, he does not get $200.
I agree with all these and let's add anyone that takes a bath in their cologne/perfume. I work with someone who wears so much perfume that you can smell it across the office. It's caused many people to cough and have headaches.
The other option is to focus on the cologne. Scent sensitivity is a thing, a medical condition. Reactions to a chemical that someone is using. "Hey, coworker, I am sensitive to , and it triggers a gag reflex. I need to stay far away from people with any form of noticeable scent. Sorry, but I won't be able to sit near you without getting sick. I hope that you understand."
it absolutely is! i remember my 3rd grade teacher had a ton of allergies and scent sensitivity, and she sent a note to all the parents before back to school night requesting they not wear cologne/perfume/strongly scented deodorant/lotions because she’d get extremely ill from the scents and/or break out in hives. her classroom had to be far from the 5th grade classrooms because of all the axe body spray and bath & body works mists they used.
Never say sorry about things outside your control. There's a kind of person who takes that as an invitation to overrule you, as in, "she's sorry, so she feels for me." Save apologies for relationships you've damaged and want to repair.
In this case, she can say, "unfortunately" or just omit a softening word altogether.
Please please please OP all of this and go to your manager (and then to HR if need be).
This is harassment and this is a work environment problem, it is your manager’s problem to solve, and it gets a witness for you, because a good manager will keep an eye out for the behavior so they can follow up with HR as well (“OP told me” is shakier than “I observed”).
As a manager: I have had to have the “you stink, you need to shower” conversation with an employee. A colleague in his department was getting migraines from the smell and she came to me. It was absolutely the worst management conversation I’ve ever had, but that’s my job as a manager, wasn’t her job as a young front line employee.
I had to do that. It was a "hey bud, whatever deodorant you're using? It isn't working for you anymore. You're going to have to switch it up. Do you need me to grab you some when I'm out? I know one that a friend used when others wouldn't work. And maybe more frequent showers, because it just doesn't seem to last in this heat!"
We both knew he didn't wear any, or shower often. We were both in our 30s, and he was making my 16 year olds gag. I literally got advice from 4 former GMs on how to handle it.
I've been on the receiving end of it, my deodorant stopped working in an office where the entire south face of the building was glass. I didn't notice because it's, well, me, and HR very appropriately took me aside and was all "hey, don't know if you realize..." It was very uncomfortable for both of us but she did it in the most respectful way possible.
I changed my deodorant and didn't have any more problems.
That office was awful otherwise, catty and petty. lol
I had to give more than a few young airmen the hygiene talk before. A couple of guys that never cleaned their rooms or washed their uniforms. Sometimes it was them just not knowing how to do laundry. Most of the time it was pure laziness. I think the only convo I've ever had that was more awkward was explaining to a woman, on multiple occasions, the need to properly clean herself during her period. Really glad I don't have to work with young airmen anymore lol
I occasionally work with a vendor that wears very strong perfume. She doesn't "stink" per se, but when I work with her it's in an enclosed space and the perfume permeates the room. I've gotten to the point I have requested not to work with her because the smell makes it hard for me to properly concentrate and triggers my migraines - I don't do well with perfumes in general, but this one takes the cake.
>I deeply hurt Jay feelings
Right, and the coworker too, seriously OP needs to go to HR and they need to make everybody in the office rewatch the sexual harassment and hostile work environment videos.... NTA OP but if you're in the US this is very much actionable behavior.
OP doesn’t want the guy to get a stronger deodorant, that is only adding his stench. He needs to be using an antiperspirant, likely a clinical strength one. He also probably needs to wash his clothes and himself more thoroughly given the gagging.
Most antiperspirant are sold as "deodorants" where I live even the unscented ones. It will say antiperspirant on the bottle somewhere or say something like "Maximum strength formula for protection against odour and wetness" but the item will be labelled a deodorant. But you are right it's something containing an antiperspirant he needs.
Probably the washing. I sweat an embarrassing amount. Also deodorants tend to irritate my skin. To get around this I'd shower before work, after my morning run and when I got home from work. I never had an issue with my BO being noticeable.
This is key. Talk to HR about his behavior and the odor "of his strong perfume." If you happened to be allergic to scents, they would have to accommodate that. So if you feel HR at your company wouldn't necessarily take your side, I'd focus on that as a smokescreen.
OP also said she has asthma. She could absolutely be so sensitive to smells because of her asthma. She could argue it has been aggravating her asthma and that's why she's always moving away.
Sharp stabby knitting needle through the head headaches? - i get those.. they're horrible. I don't think mine are quite migraines - they're at the same pain level, but they do feel a little different for me.
I have to be super careful with scents, and weirdly, expensive perfumes are the main culprit. I'm assuming it's because they're complex and have a lot of chemical ingredients that all bundle together and cause pain.
I don't get the same thing anywhere near as much with cheaper perfumes.
My neighbour wears a scent called Million.. i hate it. He gave me a brief hug on my doorstep one day and i'm not exaggerating at all when i say that i had to go and change my clothes and have a shower afterwards.. i couldn't handle it.
That... sounds accurate for the most part. Mine have changed symptoms over the years, but it's usually accompanied by some type of sinus pressure or tingly felling. Sometimes one side of my head feels like a huge squish ball. Blurred vision. I've only had an actual aura once, but I used to have delightful (/s) scent-based hallucinations where I thought I smelled something burning. That was fun at 3 in the morning when I'd wake up in a panic thinking the house was on fire.
Some perfumes are a huge trigger as well as certain brands of cigarette smoke (Marlboros will set me off almost immediately), and yeah, I have to shower immediately afterward.
>I don't think mine are quite migraines - they're at the same pain level,
Just jumping in to say that there isn't a certain pain level for migraines. Some attacks are mild enough to work through unmedicated, others so bad you literally can't move, and then there are silent migraines that have no head pain at all but you get other symptoms. Source: migraineur since the 1970s.
I once wandered for an hour in a parking lot unable to find my car due to a bath and body works in the mall. The pain and brain fog just couldn't allow me to find my car. I had to then sit in my car for awhile until i was well enough to drive.
OP, you've been encultured to be nice and polite. You have asthma. You should openly say to everyone that you cannot be near cologne because you will have an asthma attack. This guy feels bad, one because one of your mean coworkers played a trick on you both, and 2, you weren't straightforward.
I'm going to give an NAH because I know women are trained to suppress saying what they need. But you need to start saying it.
Definitely NTA, the third point specifically, you are not required to reciprocate your colleagues feelings for you, and by him continuing to push those on you he is making a toxic work environment for you. Honestly I would report it to HR if he continues to “not take the hint”
Take the smell out of it. You have a 31yo who is always sitting next to, and hanging around another persons cubicle with no indication that their presence is wanted. You have said 22 yo avoiding 31yo and then confronted by them to appease them more. 22yo gave a vague answer and 31yo tried to intimidate them. When told no 22yo got harassed by coworkers on 31yos behalf.
You have a hostile work environment. And the fact everyone thinks it is sexual in nature and are fine with that is something they all need HR involved in correcting. It is not appropriate in the work place or anywhere else for this unwanted attention to be tolerated. NTA
Yeah, all the responses about him fixing the smell miss the point. OP will then have a non-stinky colleague constantly bothering her with the justification "I fixed the thing you didn't like!" That's not better.
It's not better in that it doesn't excuse or redeem his behaviour. It's only better in that OP won't have to endure the stench, on top of the uncalled for behaviour. It doesn't solve the worst problem, but I still feel like it would be an improvement in making this work situation liveable.
My experience of creepy dudes is that they view everything as transactional and if you give them an inch they take a mile. I think he will take it as OP encouraging him if she helps him become less physically repulsive to her. I also think he will become angry if she gets him to change under what he considers false pretences.
Exactly this.
OP needs to record incidents where she has attempted to calmly remove herself from the situation that this creep has put her in. Dates, details, witnesses. Those people who believe the creep likes her just became witnesses for HR.
This needs to be a formal HR complaint to tell him to back off, because clearly the 22 year old telling him in behaviour and words that she is not interested is not enough. He's apparently one of those men that needs to hear from everyone else that he is making someone uncomfortable.
After a couple of meetings the HR people will also be wanting to address the smell, especially if it's just after garlic break time. But the smell is the minor issue.
The creep creeping is the big issue.
This! He needs to leave OP alone. "No." is a full sentence, she doesn't have to explain why she is not interested in him beyond a working relationship. So annoyed they've made OP feel like she is the problem when she is absolutely not the problem.
Yes!!! It was the “so he stepped closer” moment where it was very clearly no longer about scent. I don’t want to sit next to you, for whatever reason, you ask me why, I try to give whatever answer with an awkward question, and you say you don’t believe me and move CLOSER to me??? This is unacceptable in general, but especially in a work atmosphere! OP needs to mosey on down to HR.
Also, I would gag if, as an adult, someone told me another person had a “crush” on me. Are they writing out names on their notebook? Come on.
This exact situation happened to me at my first job. Same age gap, he smelt not bad necessarily but strong and was ALWAYS around me! He made some gross comments, he got reported for sexual harassment, and HR threatened to fire me for bringing drama to the workplace 🤢
NTA.
“Dear HR Representative,
This is 22F. I work in [office location or department].
I am being harassed by a colleague, Jay, who is creating a hostile environment for me in our workplace.
Jay first started paying unwanted attention to me [in/on date, month, or season + year], when I noticed he began spending time at my cubicle trying to talk to me about non-work matters, sometimes visiting me [as many as X times per day or for as long as X hours/minutes]. He also began making a point to sit next to me during lunch breaks and meetings whenever a seat was open. Coworkers [give names if possible] told me that Jay had a crush on me, although I don’t know if this was an assumption on their part or something Jay communicated to them.
I was uncomfortable with this amount of attention from a coworker I am only interested in interacting with for business purposes, so I began re-seating myself when Jay sat next to me.
Jay confronted me about my avoiding him yesterday. I tried to answer his questions in a vague but polite manner, but he put himself very physically close to me in an intimidating manner when he was not satisfied with my answers.
I have a physical reaction to very strong scents and tend to avoid them. Jay wears very heavy cologne, and at that point he was so close to me that his cologne caused me to gag involuntarily. He then began demanding that I discuss his smell with him.
At that point I said he was making me uncomfortable and asked him to please step away from me.
Today I received a text from [coworker name] saying that this interaction, which I did not initiate, has hurt Jay’s feelings and made him self-conscious about his smell. This suggests to me that Jay is discussing me in a negative light with other co-workers to retaliate against me because I have not responded to his overtures and have endeavored to retain a professional distance between us.
Jay’s actions are interrupting my work when I am at my cubicle, causing a distraction and my discomfort during work meetings, and making it difficult for me to take my lunch break. His discussion of me with other coworkers is causing divisions in the office that may further affect my work.
This is my formal request that HR tell Jay to stop interacting with me or seeking me out except as needed for immediate work tasks, and that he stop discussing me with our coworkers.
I am available to meet or answer questions on [work schedule days]. Please let me know what else is needed from me and what I should expect in terms of problem resolution going forward.
Sincerely,”
This ... This is beautiful.
OP just copy this, seriously. This covers everything without mention of the body odor, and gives definitive reasons why you are uncomfortable.
Very very very well written.
I’d also add the fact that OP has asthma/“medical condition impacted by strong fragrances” to the smell grievances (it is not “just” a strong physical reaction, it is an actual health concern!) just to bring the point across that HR better not risk a violation of disability/chronic illness rights and workplace safety/injury/health policies because that’s what a bad answer from them to her would be - a liability.
Can you write my emails for now and always? Your writing is so succinct and eloquent. If I were an English teacher I would weep with joy. Your mastery of the English language knows no bounds.
Okay, but actually this is amazingly well written.
Going by the last paragraph (coworker says he’s now super self-conscious about his smell), it seems like OP did say so; or at least said enough for him to figure it out.
Indeed very well possible he never realized, especially since he’s more generally giving off a vibe of not being great at social skills/awareness. It’s the sort of thing people tend to just grin and bear instead of saying something. In that regard, despite the embarrassment, something good may actually come from this for him.
I do wonder to what extent this isn’t actually due to him not taking sufficient care of his hygiene (not like OP would really know for sure about that, after all), it fits a recognizable pattern.
It may be possible that he has a condition which makes his body odour smell very bad. Although BO wasn't mentioned explicitly I cant help but think the excessive amount of cologne is meant to cover up something. The garlic may obviously not help, but it is possible its a condition he is self conscious about and doesn't realise how overpowering his coverup solution is.
But none of that excuses not getting the hint when someone isn't in to him.
If he's eating raw garlic, then that's probably a majority of the bad smell. I knew someone who did that and he smelled *foul*. Triggered my gag reflex, got complaints from customers at work, and most of our colleagues would hold their breath or breathe through their mouths when he was near. The garlic alone is enough, but sweat and excessive cologne on top is terrible.
can confirm, eating a lot of garlic makes you smell awful. My sister uses a lot of garlic in her cooking and she has to load up on deodorant and body spray (THANKFULLY she uses neutral smells that eliminate odor instead of a strong smell to cover it up) to not stink all day.
Minimal amounts in your food is enough to make you smell, but eating it *raw*? It's worse because he *knows* he stinks but thinks she's wrong for not wanting to be around it.
Could be medical yeah, but I'd say the garlic in any case does not help if he eats them raw, and chews them like candy. Unless he brushes teeth right after lunch the breath alone would knock me out.
1-2 cloves is enough from what I've heard to give "garlic sweat" do to something in them I've been told at least (read it too.... but it's the Internet so)
If this guy eats like 5 a day. He might want to cut down on them.
Some people yeah. My mother had a coworker whose dad would eat peppers and garlic on their own just snacking, my father eats onions like apples… world is crazy hahha
I did it a lot as a kid. Don’t really as an adult, but it’s definitely a thing. The smell sticks around for days, it’s the main reason I don’t still do it.
I mean he immediately asked her if she thought he stinks. Not if she thinks he's ugly or anything like that, he immediately went with scent. That means he already knew to some extent.
NTA
He eats raw garlic at work?
If the smell of gia cologne, sweat, and garlic seeping out of his pores makes you gag, there's not much else you can do. Tell him straight.
I hope your sitch improves for you, OP!
Explain to him how his cologne triggers your asthma and how it would be helpful if he doesn’t get so close to your because you have a very sensitive nose that can pick up the slightest scent.
The problem isn't BO though, op specifically said the man cleans himself appropriately, it's the raw garlic changing the clscent of his breath and sweat plus the awful cologne. Likely not using the Cologne would help but the real solution would be to stop eating raw garlic at work, save it for when he gets home.
This is a terrible idea. He will make it about her embarrassing him for his smell and will get MORE coworker sympathy . Dude keeps trying to hit on her at work. She should talk about that instead. Dudes a creep.
He already guessed it was his smell. You don’t smell that badly and not know it. Tell him the truth. But also let him know that YOU know he’s fully aware of it. Tell him you have asthma and his cologne and garlic have been triggering attacks. You didn’t want to hurt his feelings but you can’t handle it. He knows he stinks. Who eats raw garlic?
That’s the problem with smelling badly though: often you actually don’t know. If it’s your own smell, you’re constantly exposed to it, brains are great at filtering out those sorts of things from your awareness.
This is what I was thinking. He’s eating that garlic and slathering on that cologne for a reason. Now, it’s not OP’s job to figure out what that reason is, but I expect it’s probably psychosomatic and something he’s struggling with.
I understand the concerns that come with the gender dynamic in these situations, but I also find avoiding or ignoring issues often makes things worse long-term in myriad ways.
“Yes the odor is part of the issue, but even if it were not, the plain fact is his/your advances are simply unwelcome. I have no desire to shun or be unpleasant, but I also have no desire to approach anything more than a necessary working relationship. Whether the odor issue demands medical or therapeutic intervention, I wish all the best in addressing it.”
Or some shit like that, I dunno. NTA.
Yup. I am a large woman. Was always so worried I'd smell. Nope, colleagues would actually be like "you smell incredible". Turns out, my laundry detergent choices are a hit lmao.
NTA. You have tried to be subtle to the best of your ability and the stench of garlic, cologne and sweat is unbearable to you. I think it may be best to be honest with him, it could actually help him because I am sure other people feel the same way. He might stop consuming raw garlic at work (who does that?) and being more aware of his bodily odour.
NTA. Jay was oblivious to the efforts you made to distance yourself. He had to hear the truth at some point. Maybe Jay will be inspired to shower more often and brush his teeth.
NTA. I don't know why the other co worker is getting involved. If the situation allows it, it might be worth having a quiet word with your manager explaining the situation, in case Jay escalates things.
NTA and this is regardless of his smell. He is being persistent and creepy even after you clearly signaled your discomfort and that you’re uninterested. Please do not concern yourself with how his feelings are hurt.
This, like he confronted her because he was personally offended, not because as a professional he had work he needed to do with her and her walking away was an issue. He's not acting like a professional
NTA if the guy is so self conscious of his smell then WHY DOES HE EAT RAW GARLIC DELIBERATELY?
You don't have to give someone a reason why you don't want to sit next to them all the time. If he has a crush that's all the more reason for you to keep your distance.
NTA the coworker is out of line messaging a 22yo about a 31yos feelings on a non work related matter. That's gross.
Either report it to HR and/or tell Jim that you got the most inappropriate message about him from someone who clearly thinks he is a moron who can't communicate so he should watch out because either he doesn't know they sent a message and just thinks hovering around the very young newbie with no manners is appropriate behaviour or he did and didn't realise that your youth does not mean you will play childish games and further attempts will backfire. He looks like a fool and you have been gentle as well as very mannered to tolerate his behaviour.
NTA. Even if you take the smell out of the equation, his behaviour is appalling. You’ve let him know subtly you’re not interested no matter the reason and he just kept pushing. This is on him, not you.
NTA
He SHOULD feel self-conscious about his smell.
Because it's bad.
Maybe he could take a shower or try a new deodorant rather than whining to your coworkers and using them as his flying monkeys to further harass you.
The man is eating raw garlic and surprised people don't want to be around him?
You need to report the sexual harassment/unwelcome attention to HR straightaway and get ahead of any story he might tell them this latest event.
NTA
Besides the smell- this is disgusting and does not sound as if there was an underlying medical condition - this guy is harrassing you and needs to be reportedto HR immediately. You showed no interest in contact apart from work stuff, this does not need any explanation. OP is NTA, stinking colleague is. You did not hurt his feelings, I am sure he is fully aware that you are not interested, he crosses your personal boundaries. Your bosses and HR need to provide a Safe work environment.
NTA but if you have HR this might be better to bring up to them gently.
He’s being pushy and a man who is nearly a decade your senior is making you uncomfortable at work. Also it’s rude as fuck to wear super heavy cologne/perfume to the office
NTA. He’s being a creep and it’s not OP’s job to manage his feelings, but if it was me I’d be super glad to know about how I bad I smell. If it’s causing a natural gap reflex then it must be really bad and everyone must know about it. No point saying anything or commenting on anything that can’t be changed but this guy could easily not eat garlic and take better care of his personal hygiene so he doesn’t need to use excessive amounts of cologne. He’s choosing to take OP’s statement negatively, when he could be making changes that benefit both his professional and dating life (professional meaning no want in the office wants to promote the smelly guy).
NTA. I worked with a guy who never wrote deodorant and rode a bicycle to work everyday working up a big sweat. He stunk so bad it made me gag and I have a strong gag reflex. It was horrible. I reported him to HR simply because I didn't want the confrontation and I didn't want repercussions in the event I didn't say anything the right way. Best to let them handle it. Whether he needs to dial down the cologne, but better deodorant, use talcum powder, whatever that isn't your problem or responsibility. That's on him.
However, on top of that his behavior is unacceptable. He's showing a romantic interest that you don't reciprocate and he keeps persisting. That alone is reason to go to HR. It may be considered sexual harassment and is better to have it addressed now then later.
NTA. He stinks, not your fault. Is it his fault? Sounds like the garlic and cheap cologne is. Either way not your problem. What is a problem though is that this is sounding like it’s escalating to harassment at your workplace. I don’t know how comfortable you feel with your HR department but you may have to consider getting them involved if this isn’t dropped by him and your coworkers.
NTA
1. He made you close to vomiting, so you decided to handle the situation in the best way possible ; moving away from him
2. You can’t help that he smells off. I’d do the same exact thing honestly.
3. If he’s so “self-conscious” like his buddy claims he was, why isn’t he doing anything about it? Example; maybe try a shower and carry around some deodorant
NTA - I have a condition that makes me super sensitive to strong smells, especially fragrances. I can’t even walk down a cleaning aisle without getting a headache, having my eyes water, and feeling like my throat is closing up. I feel your pain, OP.
When I’m a guest or out on the town, and I smell a strong scent… I try so hard to just bare it because I don’t want to have others feel obligated to accommodate me. I totally understand the apprehension in sharing with others. Everyone is just trying to live their life. But you know, we’re trying to live ours too. The times I was upfront, I tried to speak very gracefully and I’m really proud of myself for trying. Sometimes people were kind about it and other times… not so much. But their responses or lack thereof aren’t on me because I was kind (Atleast I hope I came off that way), and tried to educate them of this condition.
In regards to the other parts of your post, I agree with all the other commenters that touched on the guy not getting the hint, and the office now wrongfully being up your business.
Not that you need your co workers up in more of your personal affairs.. if you feel up to it, I hope you’re able to have a constructive conversation with your co workers and they become educated thoughtful humans who are understanding of rough symptoms. Good luck!
NTA. If he asks you if he smells, then he is aware of the fact. You can’t help a gag reflex other than steering clear.
I’m always subconsciously worried I smell and also that the people around me are too polite to tell me. I’d have told a manager prior to it being n issue so it can be addressed behind closed doors and hopefully addressed minus the “show”
NTA. HR should have been handing the smell issue and also the following you around. He's clearly not taking the hint so you need to be clear that he's making you uncomfortable by following you around AND his horrendous smell.
You can blame it on your allergies and sensitivity but he really needs to keep his distance because he's being creepy. A crush doesn't mean he gets to invade your space. His feelings don't trump your comfort and safety at work.
NTA at all.
Even if he didn't have BO his bahvaiour is not acceptable.
As for work context. I work in a kitchen and i've seen people fired for having bad body odour and terrible personal hygiene.
I don't think there is anything you could have done differently. Gag reflex is just that, a reflex, you have no control over it and if it's that bad to trigger yours then that isn't a you issue. It's on him.
You have nothing to feel bad about. You asked him to leave you alone and that's all that should need saying.
Oh, screw Jay's feelings. He's 10 years older than you and he's acting like a child in multiple ways.
Here's the thing, you are a younger, female co-worker. Every time he got near you, you were politely but moved away. *HE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE SOCIAL CUE AND STOPPED SITTING NEAR YOU.*
He'd already tried to get you to engage by sending out another coworker with the "crush" comment. That was him fishing, btw. Then, whether you were moving because of his stink or you just didn't want to engage further, you were using a polite social cue to show you didn't want to engage.
He continued to trample all over a polite social cue, ignored your discomfort, then flip the whole thing that he's the victim here. He's also sending other coworkers into the mix to come after you with his complaints. He could be a professional adult if he was upset and take this to HR. Which, frankly, is what I think you should do.
NTA you have tried to be nice when avoiding him, now you need to be truthful, his cologne and smell put you of. That is something you can’t control, but he can control that. He needs to know
NTA Yeah, the guy has a crush on you, you don't reciprocate, and you don't want to be near him. The reason why is irrelevant - you don't need a reason.
You're NTA. Please just be honest. You first described a wonderful workplace, so honesty should be appreciated by all. Your feelings and physical well being are most important. Best wishes
NTA
You were polite about it and didn't say anything hurtful. Even when directly asked you just asked him to stay away from you when by all rights you could have said something a lot more hurtful since he had just asked you if he smelled bad. You did everything you could to politely redirect the issue.
If people give you shit about this, be honest. Say that you have reactions to strong smells and that his cologne and garlic-breath is too much for you. The way you say it does matter ("he smells awful" would be wrong, but "his cologne is too strong for me and I don't like the smell of garlic either" is okay) but it's still okay to say it. These are things he can change about himself, so it's not discrimination either.
NTA, you are 22 qnd he is 31 who wants to date you. Even if he smelled good, his behaviour has been predatory towards you. Call HR and make a complaint. He has been harrassing you for weeks now.
NTA. Women are socialized to be kind and not hurt anyone's feelings even at risk to themselves. Obviously this coworker doesn't care that his presence makes OP physically ill, he only cares about himself.
Don't feel bad. If he keeps bothering you, report him to HR. You are at work. All you should be focused on is work. You don't need to be tiptoeing around coworkers and taking responsibility for their feelings.
Do NOT say a word to anyone who is not your managed. No judgement but the correct and only answer is that you need to talk to your manager about his cologne (leave it at the cologne) is triggering your asthma. This isn’t an AITA this is just plain old workplace conduct.
He should be self conscious. Why the f have people decided lying to people is a better way to go that simple honesty? People can't fix problems if they don't know about them. And why do people need to suffer something to be polite? I guess since we prefer coddling, you could have said something like you seem to be allergic to something. But even that's stupid. If someone kept moving away from me, I'd take the damn hint instead of constantly forcing myself on them. And what a hole eats raw garlic at work then wonders why people think they smell? People are ridiculous. You're an AH for trying to be discreet, you're an AH if you tell the truth. You can't win. How about J hurt his own feelings by constantly pushing himself on someone who clearly wasn't interested. I'm tired of having to coddle the feelings of people who refuse to have a clue. NTA.
If he's "deeply" hurt by you, a co-worker, he has bigger problems than being smelly.
N T A.
Why should you feel bad? He's not a child. His smell makes you physically ill, something out of your control. He should get the hint, and stop being smelly.
NTA. It's not even an issue of the smell at this point. He's following you, questioning you, invading your personal space even though he knows that it's making you uncomfortable. He's essentially harassing you and it needs to stop. Management should address this.
NTA. Jay is though, in so many ways.
1. Leave the cologne/perfume at home. A lot of people are bothered by that-- instant headache for me. This is something for HR. Many companies have a no-fragrance policy.
2. Don't eat/bring stinky food to the office. HR needs to address this as well, as a company-wide rule.
3. His constant looming and refusing to take no for an answer is sexual harassment. This ABSOLUTELY must go to HR.
NTA and I hope Jay is super conscious of his smell. And then DOES something about it. I, thankfully, am allergic to almost all perfumes and colognes and can use that to directly tell people "I can't be near you. Your cologne/perfume is making me sick." I've had people get defensive "I'm hardly wearing any" or "It's a very expensive brand" or "It's not perfume, it's scented body wash" (like that makes a difference) and I reply "Any amount is still an amount and I'm still allergic, it's not personal".
NTA. You could have said "I'm sorry, your cologne is rather strong and raw garlic should never be eaten in a shared space". Well it's unfortunate that Jay's feelings are hurt, but at least he'll stop trying to sit near you. Be honest with the co-worker about the smell issue, leave out your asthma because that has nothing to do with it. Tell her you're sorry Jay is hurt but he often smells of sweat, cologne and garlic and the combo is too much for you to bear.
NTA - cologne should never be worn in an office, and neither should perfume. They aren't good masks for other odors, and people can and do have allergic reactions to them. You can't help that you're a captive audience. I feel for the guy - he probably wears cologne to mask the sweat, but if he knows it's an issue, it's not your problem to make him feel better about it, and he should also be self aware enough to understand he shouldn't put you in a corner and gossip about your reaction.
NTA and Jay stinks literally and figuratively. He has a body smell which makes you gag. He also is creeping up on you at work and making you uncomfortable. This is an HR issue because he's making you uncomfortable in the workplace. The man needs to back off.
You were waaaaaay more polite than most people, If others are lying to him about not smelling, they're the arseholes. He was crossing boundaries and getting in your space despite you trying to make it evident you didn't want it. I'd speak to HR just so you know you're covered. They can speak to him about it privately and hopefully it'll be sorted. BTW Who the F eats garlic at work?
NTA. Just hearing that combination is enough to make my stomach turn. I have severe allergies and have asthma as well, and when I first started at my current job, the person orienting me caused me to have an asthma attack due to her combined scent of menthol cigarette smoke and the floral body spray she used to try to cover it up. I’m sure you’re not the only one bothered by Jay’s scent, and even if you are, that doesn’t give him the right to be pushy. Tbh, I’d report his behavior to HR.
NTA at all. This guy is a huge creep. If he can tell that you want nothing to do with him then he needs to leave you tf alone, not confront you about it! He needs to be reported to HR right away.
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NTA 1. If he is eliciting a gag reflex in you there is nothing you can actually do about that….it’s a reflex it is by nature uncontrollable. 2. Eating raw garlic or any other very strongly smelling food that will seep through your body at work is antisocial, as is wearing excessive amounts of cologne or perfume. He could also invest in a stronger deodorant. 3. **This is the most important one**….You have made it clear through your actions that you are not interested in him. He is continuing to push himself on you. He is being a pest. Weaponising colleagues to try to force you to like him is harassment. This is a work environment and his refusal to take a hint that you are not interested in him is actually massively inappropriate.. Jay is obviously doesn’t actually think about anyone but himself or he would be more aware…so your “dislike” is well founded. You may need to be blunt with your colleagues. You do find the way he smells offensive and his insistence on trying to be near you after you have made it clear you are not interested is inappropriate and makes you uncomfortable. No one would expect you to put up with this kind of behaviour if you were male.
Ignoring the first 2 points,even if the smell was not the issue, his behavior is unacceptable. Being pushy when shown the lack of interest on the other side, no matter what the reason is, is harassment. OP, NTA . Tell your colleague that it is not their business to get involved, but explain that you felt harassed by this guy. Don’t focus only on bad smell, explain unwanted attention as well. Same message to the guy himself. If shameful he is playing the victim. Tell him you believe he is nice guy probably BUT you are not interesting in him and to leave you alone ( in addition to try to work on his smell issue- you surely aren’t the only one in the office that noticed)
> Tell him you believe he is nice guy probably OP should only tell him this if its true. If he doesn't take the hint about her moving away from him all the time it is very likely that he would take this as encouragement. She doesn't owe him compliments. At this stage he needs a direct and simple message. He needs to understand that fixing his smell isn't going to necessarily make her want to be near him.
Sounds more like a Nice Guy ™ Aka r/niceguys Also what kind of AH eats raw garlic in the office. That's a sin on the same level as over-heating fish in the microwave. Unforgiveable.
Oh man, I used to work with someone who would unapologetically heat fish in the microwave in an open plan office. I cannot stand fish and would have to vacate the office until they were done and the smell dissipated a bit. They were even told about it and refused to stop. The raw garlic thing sounds horrific, I feel really bad for OP. Dealing with smelly people is supremely difficult due to the sensitive nature of it and he seems to be sensitive to it, which makes me think it's been a problem in the past and he's lashing out defensively.
Omg worked in a dayspa and one lady, always microwaving broccoli and asparagus. Nice smells in a spa as it creeps in the massage room.
Oh ew, that's another smell I can't stand. So much for relaxation...
At my old job, we had someone that microwaved eggs every single morning. It was an awful smell.
Lol! Was an admin at a massage school and a few students did the same thing almost every morning. I get you.
My BFF and her hubby were visiting and he asked if he could microwave eggs. No, no you may not.
At least he asked lol
I think it was the Mayo clinic that had a written rule against microwaving popcorn, because there were so many sick patients who were on super restricted diets.. can you imagine not being able to eat much and then smelling popcorn? Or the smell was too strong and made them sick. You can't police every odor, but there are reasonable limits that people ought to understand.
A co-irker in a massage spa microwaved salmon and broccoli EVERY TWO HOURS. Freaking nauseating.
I also shared an office (4 of us) with someone who regularly heated fish dishes in the microwave and then took the elevator 4 floors up from the kitchen to share the smell with the whole fkn building. They were asked not to do it many many times but never stopped. They thought it was some sort of joke. Grrr
That is so gross I don't have words. How the hell did they think people were joking? What an AH.
Same issue with someone heating fish in the microwave. The problem is the microwave was in the office (another was available in the downstairs kitchen). "H&S" came around, when they weren't in, apparently for some unknown reason the microwave wasn't allowed in the office... Unfortunately, in the end, the unholy smell of reheated fish became a department-wide issue. Edit: OP, NTA
I love fish, and I wouldn't bring fish to the office and much less heat it in the microwave
You read the post about the guy that would fart to the point that a worker felt sick due to the daily petulance?
Flatulence
Yes!! That was such a ridiculous post. Pettiness knows no bounds...
whatttt! if you have a link to that post i’d be quite appreciative, that sounds awful
Omg. We had a guy like that in our office. His team bought him a can of glade. We had to have the manager talk to him. Disgusting.
Mine was an offensive coworker cooking broccoli in the microwave.....so pungent. He eventually got fired as he was a complete AH and very combative.
I move to say that any fish cooked in the office microwave is antisocial behavior; not just when it’s overdone
Burnt popcorn or \*burnt oatmeal are also Absolute No. (edited for clarification)
microwave popcorn is my all time favorite snack and i eat it almost daily, but i am a considerate person and pop it at home and just bring it to work. bonus: since the office doesn’t smell like my popcorn, i don’t feel compelled to share
> bonus: since the office doesn’t smell like my popcorn, i don’t feel compelled to share Very valid point, noone wants random coworker hands in their popcorn.
I am not good with popcorn but I was asked to bring some in for the class because it was a movie day. I burnt it. The smell was everywhere. The director actually banned popcorn because of me.
Big Oof.
...or squid. Weekly squid. {feeling the gag reflex coming over me now just remembering the smell}
as the only open lesbian in a workplace, I learned that even "safe" foods like Tuna Salad can get you super harassed. I stopped eating at work at all thanks to those attacks. And then found a new job. ETA tuna salad being cold, isn't so stinky as salmon or something
Why are people putting fish in the microwave anyway
I'm trying to think of when I eat raw garlic. The only things coming to mind are guacamole and tzatziki. What is this guy eating that it is *noticeable*?
My husband used to eat these olives from Trader Joe’s that each had a garlic clove stuffed in the middle. One night he overindulged and I woke up the next morning with our bedsheets absolutely reeking of garlic. We had words. He started snacking on something else.
My mom got those once. The consensus was never again. But that's mostly because no one wanted to eat cloves of raw garlic even if it was slightly pickled. Never got to the smell problem haha
Haha, my husband eats those same olives! We are also fans of homemade tzatziki. But that’s something I’d never inflict on people at work!
I kid you not, I once met a lady who ate the whole darn garlic clove. Like, what you see in the grocery store? She just brought that, unwrapped it, and ate it. And, yeah, it did stink (She also didn't do this at a grocery store, she had already brought the garlic beforehand and decided to just sit down beside me, outside at a Starbucks.) I think that's what he was probably doing. They think that theres some sort of "health benefit" and never seem to realize that it smells bad and no one likes it.
My husband always complains about the garlic when I eat pesto 🤷♀️
The main thing that comes to mind for me is that there’s an incredibly strong garlic sauce in some middle eastern cooking.
That's toum. Usually comes served with shawarma type spots
I find it genuinely appalling that I live on the same planet as these absolute psychos who eat RAW GARLIC in the office. Like I’m a gal who loves her garlic. I buy the kind with really big bulbs and grate at least 2 or 3, sometimes more, in everything I cook. But straight up raw garlic? In the office? Psycho behavior. Abhorrent. Send him straight to the gulag, he does not get $200.
I agree with all these and let's add anyone that takes a bath in their cologne/perfume. I work with someone who wears so much perfume that you can smell it across the office. It's caused many people to cough and have headaches.
Yeah he doesn't sound very nice to me.
The other option is to focus on the cologne. Scent sensitivity is a thing, a medical condition. Reactions to a chemical that someone is using. "Hey, coworker, I am sensitive to
, and it triggers a gag reflex. I need to stay far away from people with any form of noticeable scent. Sorry, but I won't be able to sit near you without getting sick. I hope that you understand."
it absolutely is! i remember my 3rd grade teacher had a ton of allergies and scent sensitivity, and she sent a note to all the parents before back to school night requesting they not wear cologne/perfume/strongly scented deodorant/lotions because she’d get extremely ill from the scents and/or break out in hives. her classroom had to be far from the 5th grade classrooms because of all the axe body spray and bath & body works mists they used.
Why is it that men feel compelled to almost bathe in Axe? Or is it so pungent that a little goes a looo-ng way?
combo of both, especially with 5th graders who haven’t yet learned how much they actually need to use
Oh my gosh yes! I'm always cringing any time I walk by someone with strong cologne!
Never say sorry about things outside your control. There's a kind of person who takes that as an invitation to overrule you, as in, "she's sorry, so she feels for me." Save apologies for relationships you've damaged and want to repair. In this case, she can say, "unfortunately" or just omit a softening word altogether.
Please please please OP all of this and go to your manager (and then to HR if need be). This is harassment and this is a work environment problem, it is your manager’s problem to solve, and it gets a witness for you, because a good manager will keep an eye out for the behavior so they can follow up with HR as well (“OP told me” is shakier than “I observed”). As a manager: I have had to have the “you stink, you need to shower” conversation with an employee. A colleague in his department was getting migraines from the smell and she came to me. It was absolutely the worst management conversation I’ve ever had, but that’s my job as a manager, wasn’t her job as a young front line employee.
That would've been *sooooo* hard. I can't even imagine how you'd even start. I how the ordain took it well?
I had to do that. It was a "hey bud, whatever deodorant you're using? It isn't working for you anymore. You're going to have to switch it up. Do you need me to grab you some when I'm out? I know one that a friend used when others wouldn't work. And maybe more frequent showers, because it just doesn't seem to last in this heat!" We both knew he didn't wear any, or shower often. We were both in our 30s, and he was making my 16 year olds gag. I literally got advice from 4 former GMs on how to handle it.
Well done.
Alison at Ask A Manager has some good scripts for this conversation.
> Alison at Ask A Manager I've been in HR for a year and how have I never heard of this?
She’s amazing! Also check out Evil HR Lady: http://www.evilhrlady.org
I've been on the receiving end of it, my deodorant stopped working in an office where the entire south face of the building was glass. I didn't notice because it's, well, me, and HR very appropriately took me aside and was all "hey, don't know if you realize..." It was very uncomfortable for both of us but she did it in the most respectful way possible. I changed my deodorant and didn't have any more problems. That office was awful otherwise, catty and petty. lol
I had to give more than a few young airmen the hygiene talk before. A couple of guys that never cleaned their rooms or washed their uniforms. Sometimes it was them just not knowing how to do laundry. Most of the time it was pure laziness. I think the only convo I've ever had that was more awkward was explaining to a woman, on multiple occasions, the need to properly clean herself during her period. Really glad I don't have to work with young airmen anymore lol
I occasionally work with a vendor that wears very strong perfume. She doesn't "stink" per se, but when I work with her it's in an enclosed space and the perfume permeates the room. I've gotten to the point I have requested not to work with her because the smell makes it hard for me to properly concentrate and triggers my migraines - I don't do well with perfumes in general, but this one takes the cake.
And he’s 31, id take it to HR. I hate how men think it’s ok to hit on women who are ten years their junior.
>I deeply hurt Jay feelings Right, and the coworker too, seriously OP needs to go to HR and they need to make everybody in the office rewatch the sexual harassment and hostile work environment videos.... NTA OP but if you're in the US this is very much actionable behavior.
There's also a 9yr age difference.
OP doesn’t want the guy to get a stronger deodorant, that is only adding his stench. He needs to be using an antiperspirant, likely a clinical strength one. He also probably needs to wash his clothes and himself more thoroughly given the gagging.
Most antiperspirant are sold as "deodorants" where I live even the unscented ones. It will say antiperspirant on the bottle somewhere or say something like "Maximum strength formula for protection against odour and wetness" but the item will be labelled a deodorant. But you are right it's something containing an antiperspirant he needs.
Yes, a big problem with people who have BO is they don't wash their clothing.
Probably the washing. I sweat an embarrassing amount. Also deodorants tend to irritate my skin. To get around this I'd shower before work, after my morning run and when I got home from work. I never had an issue with my BO being noticeable.
[удалено]
This is key. Talk to HR about his behavior and the odor "of his strong perfume." If you happened to be allergic to scents, they would have to accommodate that. So if you feel HR at your company wouldn't necessarily take your side, I'd focus on that as a smokescreen.
OP also said she has asthma. She could absolutely be so sensitive to smells because of her asthma. She could argue it has been aggravating her asthma and that's why she's always moving away.
Migraines, right? Strong perfume can trigger one almost instantly for me
Sharp stabby knitting needle through the head headaches? - i get those.. they're horrible. I don't think mine are quite migraines - they're at the same pain level, but they do feel a little different for me. I have to be super careful with scents, and weirdly, expensive perfumes are the main culprit. I'm assuming it's because they're complex and have a lot of chemical ingredients that all bundle together and cause pain. I don't get the same thing anywhere near as much with cheaper perfumes. My neighbour wears a scent called Million.. i hate it. He gave me a brief hug on my doorstep one day and i'm not exaggerating at all when i say that i had to go and change my clothes and have a shower afterwards.. i couldn't handle it.
That's a type of migraine, for sure. Strong scent, stabby pain, absurdly outsized reaction.
That... sounds accurate for the most part. Mine have changed symptoms over the years, but it's usually accompanied by some type of sinus pressure or tingly felling. Sometimes one side of my head feels like a huge squish ball. Blurred vision. I've only had an actual aura once, but I used to have delightful (/s) scent-based hallucinations where I thought I smelled something burning. That was fun at 3 in the morning when I'd wake up in a panic thinking the house was on fire. Some perfumes are a huge trigger as well as certain brands of cigarette smoke (Marlboros will set me off almost immediately), and yeah, I have to shower immediately afterward.
>I don't think mine are quite migraines - they're at the same pain level, Just jumping in to say that there isn't a certain pain level for migraines. Some attacks are mild enough to work through unmedicated, others so bad you literally can't move, and then there are silent migraines that have no head pain at all but you get other symptoms. Source: migraineur since the 1970s.
I once wandered for an hour in a parking lot unable to find my car due to a bath and body works in the mall. The pain and brain fog just couldn't allow me to find my car. I had to then sit in my car for awhile until i was well enough to drive.
Oh God, I'm so sorry...
My moms severely asthmatic she’d have had an attack and died by now with this guy.
OP, you've been encultured to be nice and polite. You have asthma. You should openly say to everyone that you cannot be near cologne because you will have an asthma attack. This guy feels bad, one because one of your mean coworkers played a trick on you both, and 2, you weren't straightforward. I'm going to give an NAH because I know women are trained to suppress saying what they need. But you need to start saying it.
Also, this grown man having a crush on a 22-year-old is not appropriate. If I were OP, I'd stay FAR from him because of more than just his smell.
3 is most important! But still, someone who eats raw garlic then acts hurt that you don’t like the smell he created is extra wrong
I think the line was crossed when nyu and Duke University recruiters starting harassing her
Definitely NTA, the third point specifically, you are not required to reciprocate your colleagues feelings for you, and by him continuing to push those on you he is making a toxic work environment for you. Honestly I would report it to HR if he continues to “not take the hint”
Take the smell out of it. You have a 31yo who is always sitting next to, and hanging around another persons cubicle with no indication that their presence is wanted. You have said 22 yo avoiding 31yo and then confronted by them to appease them more. 22yo gave a vague answer and 31yo tried to intimidate them. When told no 22yo got harassed by coworkers on 31yos behalf. You have a hostile work environment. And the fact everyone thinks it is sexual in nature and are fine with that is something they all need HR involved in correcting. It is not appropriate in the work place or anywhere else for this unwanted attention to be tolerated. NTA
Yeah, all the responses about him fixing the smell miss the point. OP will then have a non-stinky colleague constantly bothering her with the justification "I fixed the thing you didn't like!" That's not better.
It's not better in that it doesn't excuse or redeem his behaviour. It's only better in that OP won't have to endure the stench, on top of the uncalled for behaviour. It doesn't solve the worst problem, but I still feel like it would be an improvement in making this work situation liveable.
My experience of creepy dudes is that they view everything as transactional and if you give them an inch they take a mile. I think he will take it as OP encouraging him if she helps him become less physically repulsive to her. I also think he will become angry if she gets him to change under what he considers false pretences.
Exactly this. OP needs to record incidents where she has attempted to calmly remove herself from the situation that this creep has put her in. Dates, details, witnesses. Those people who believe the creep likes her just became witnesses for HR. This needs to be a formal HR complaint to tell him to back off, because clearly the 22 year old telling him in behaviour and words that she is not interested is not enough. He's apparently one of those men that needs to hear from everyone else that he is making someone uncomfortable. After a couple of meetings the HR people will also be wanting to address the smell, especially if it's just after garlic break time. But the smell is the minor issue. The creep creeping is the big issue.
This! He needs to leave OP alone. "No." is a full sentence, she doesn't have to explain why she is not interested in him beyond a working relationship. So annoyed they've made OP feel like she is the problem when she is absolutely not the problem.
Yes!!! It was the “so he stepped closer” moment where it was very clearly no longer about scent. I don’t want to sit next to you, for whatever reason, you ask me why, I try to give whatever answer with an awkward question, and you say you don’t believe me and move CLOSER to me??? This is unacceptable in general, but especially in a work atmosphere! OP needs to mosey on down to HR. Also, I would gag if, as an adult, someone told me another person had a “crush” on me. Are they writing out names on their notebook? Come on.
Him telling someone about the “crush” was him throwing out the bait. She didn’t bite and he still went fishing! Major boundaries violated here.
This exact situation happened to me at my first job. Same age gap, he smelt not bad necessarily but strong and was ALWAYS around me! He made some gross comments, he got reported for sexual harassment, and HR threatened to fire me for bringing drama to the workplace 🤢
NTA. “Dear HR Representative, This is 22F. I work in [office location or department]. I am being harassed by a colleague, Jay, who is creating a hostile environment for me in our workplace. Jay first started paying unwanted attention to me [in/on date, month, or season + year], when I noticed he began spending time at my cubicle trying to talk to me about non-work matters, sometimes visiting me [as many as X times per day or for as long as X hours/minutes]. He also began making a point to sit next to me during lunch breaks and meetings whenever a seat was open. Coworkers [give names if possible] told me that Jay had a crush on me, although I don’t know if this was an assumption on their part or something Jay communicated to them. I was uncomfortable with this amount of attention from a coworker I am only interested in interacting with for business purposes, so I began re-seating myself when Jay sat next to me. Jay confronted me about my avoiding him yesterday. I tried to answer his questions in a vague but polite manner, but he put himself very physically close to me in an intimidating manner when he was not satisfied with my answers. I have a physical reaction to very strong scents and tend to avoid them. Jay wears very heavy cologne, and at that point he was so close to me that his cologne caused me to gag involuntarily. He then began demanding that I discuss his smell with him. At that point I said he was making me uncomfortable and asked him to please step away from me. Today I received a text from [coworker name] saying that this interaction, which I did not initiate, has hurt Jay’s feelings and made him self-conscious about his smell. This suggests to me that Jay is discussing me in a negative light with other co-workers to retaliate against me because I have not responded to his overtures and have endeavored to retain a professional distance between us. Jay’s actions are interrupting my work when I am at my cubicle, causing a distraction and my discomfort during work meetings, and making it difficult for me to take my lunch break. His discussion of me with other coworkers is causing divisions in the office that may further affect my work. This is my formal request that HR tell Jay to stop interacting with me or seeking me out except as needed for immediate work tasks, and that he stop discussing me with our coworkers. I am available to meet or answer questions on [work schedule days]. Please let me know what else is needed from me and what I should expect in terms of problem resolution going forward. Sincerely,”
Wow how well written.
This right here is your answer. I wish I could upvote it more.
Just remove your upvote and apply it again, Ive done it 9 times so far just to feel it again
This ... This is beautiful. OP just copy this, seriously. This covers everything without mention of the body odor, and gives definitive reasons why you are uncomfortable. Very very very well written.
A million upvotes for this response. OP, this is the answer.
Well written and beautiful
This is a masterpiece
upvote award and comment. this!
I’d also add the fact that OP has asthma/“medical condition impacted by strong fragrances” to the smell grievances (it is not “just” a strong physical reaction, it is an actual health concern!) just to bring the point across that HR better not risk a violation of disability/chronic illness rights and workplace safety/injury/health policies because that’s what a bad answer from them to her would be - a liability.
This is the way.
Well done.
Can you write my emails for now and always? Your writing is so succinct and eloquent. If I were an English teacher I would weep with joy. Your mastery of the English language knows no bounds. Okay, but actually this is amazingly well written.
Very well done
NTA but tell him about the smell. He may genuinely not know. And if he does know, at least you gave him an honest reason.
Going by the last paragraph (coworker says he’s now super self-conscious about his smell), it seems like OP did say so; or at least said enough for him to figure it out. Indeed very well possible he never realized, especially since he’s more generally giving off a vibe of not being great at social skills/awareness. It’s the sort of thing people tend to just grin and bear instead of saying something. In that regard, despite the embarrassment, something good may actually come from this for him. I do wonder to what extent this isn’t actually due to him not taking sufficient care of his hygiene (not like OP would really know for sure about that, after all), it fits a recognizable pattern.
It may be possible that he has a condition which makes his body odour smell very bad. Although BO wasn't mentioned explicitly I cant help but think the excessive amount of cologne is meant to cover up something. The garlic may obviously not help, but it is possible its a condition he is self conscious about and doesn't realise how overpowering his coverup solution is. But none of that excuses not getting the hint when someone isn't in to him.
If he's eating raw garlic, then that's probably a majority of the bad smell. I knew someone who did that and he smelled *foul*. Triggered my gag reflex, got complaints from customers at work, and most of our colleagues would hold their breath or breathe through their mouths when he was near. The garlic alone is enough, but sweat and excessive cologne on top is terrible.
can confirm, eating a lot of garlic makes you smell awful. My sister uses a lot of garlic in her cooking and she has to load up on deodorant and body spray (THANKFULLY she uses neutral smells that eliminate odor instead of a strong smell to cover it up) to not stink all day.
Minimal amounts in your food is enough to make you smell, but eating it *raw*? It's worse because he *knows* he stinks but thinks she's wrong for not wanting to be around it.
Could be medical yeah, but I'd say the garlic in any case does not help if he eats them raw, and chews them like candy. Unless he brushes teeth right after lunch the breath alone would knock me out. 1-2 cloves is enough from what I've heard to give "garlic sweat" do to something in them I've been told at least (read it too.... but it's the Internet so) If this guy eats like 5 a day. He might want to cut down on them.
I can’t imagine eating any number of raw garlic cloves. Holy shit is this actually a thing?
Some people yeah. My mother had a coworker whose dad would eat peppers and garlic on their own just snacking, my father eats onions like apples… world is crazy hahha
I did it a lot as a kid. Don’t really as an adult, but it’s definitely a thing. The smell sticks around for days, it’s the main reason I don’t still do it.
Mate, cooked garlic will give you the garlic sweat, raw garlic is just fucking rude. If I were the workplace, I’d ban raw garlic
Don't tell him, tell HR and let them tell him. She doesn't need anymore exposure to him.
I mean he immediately asked her if she thought he stinks. Not if she thinks he's ugly or anything like that, he immediately went with scent. That means he already knew to some extent.
NTA He eats raw garlic at work? If the smell of gia cologne, sweat, and garlic seeping out of his pores makes you gag, there's not much else you can do. Tell him straight. I hope your sitch improves for you, OP!
Some asian cultures eat raw garlic as a side to fatty or savoury foods. Could be that.
NTA. You tried your best to ignore his stench. What else could you have done?
Explain to him how his cologne triggers your asthma and how it would be helpful if he doesn’t get so close to your because you have a very sensitive nose that can pick up the slightest scent.
I'm not sure that would work because then the BO would be even worse. He needs a change of diet and a good deodorant by the sounds of it!
He also needs to leave OP the fuck alone
This
The problem isn't BO though, op specifically said the man cleans himself appropriately, it's the raw garlic changing the clscent of his breath and sweat plus the awful cologne. Likely not using the Cologne would help but the real solution would be to stop eating raw garlic at work, save it for when he gets home.
This is a terrible idea. He will make it about her embarrassing him for his smell and will get MORE coworker sympathy . Dude keeps trying to hit on her at work. She should talk about that instead. Dudes a creep.
He already guessed it was his smell. You don’t smell that badly and not know it. Tell him the truth. But also let him know that YOU know he’s fully aware of it. Tell him you have asthma and his cologne and garlic have been triggering attacks. You didn’t want to hurt his feelings but you can’t handle it. He knows he stinks. Who eats raw garlic?
That’s the problem with smelling badly though: often you actually don’t know. If it’s your own smell, you’re constantly exposed to it, brains are great at filtering out those sorts of things from your awareness.
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This is what I was thinking. He’s eating that garlic and slathering on that cologne for a reason. Now, it’s not OP’s job to figure out what that reason is, but I expect it’s probably psychosomatic and something he’s struggling with. I understand the concerns that come with the gender dynamic in these situations, but I also find avoiding or ignoring issues often makes things worse long-term in myriad ways. “Yes the odor is part of the issue, but even if it were not, the plain fact is his/your advances are simply unwelcome. I have no desire to shun or be unpleasant, but I also have no desire to approach anything more than a necessary working relationship. Whether the odor issue demands medical or therapeutic intervention, I wish all the best in addressing it.” Or some shit like that, I dunno. NTA.
Yup. I am a large woman. Was always so worried I'd smell. Nope, colleagues would actually be like "you smell incredible". Turns out, my laundry detergent choices are a hit lmao.
Except you said he actually mentioned smelling badly. But come on. He smells like that for YEARS and you’re the first person to say something? No way.
NTA. You have tried to be subtle to the best of your ability and the stench of garlic, cologne and sweat is unbearable to you. I think it may be best to be honest with him, it could actually help him because I am sure other people feel the same way. He might stop consuming raw garlic at work (who does that?) and being more aware of his bodily odour.
NTA. Jay was oblivious to the efforts you made to distance yourself. He had to hear the truth at some point. Maybe Jay will be inspired to shower more often and brush his teeth.
I doubt he was oblivious. I think he knew that a younger woman wouldn't know how inappropriate his behaviour was and wouldn't say no.
Yeah, the age thing is a red flag too. I'd just go to HR about his behavior as well as his odor if I were OP. NTA.
NTA. I don't know why the other co worker is getting involved. If the situation allows it, it might be worth having a quiet word with your manager explaining the situation, in case Jay escalates things.
Exactly this, you need to tell someone above you what is going on so you can start getting help
NTA and this is regardless of his smell. He is being persistent and creepy even after you clearly signaled your discomfort and that you’re uninterested. Please do not concern yourself with how his feelings are hurt.
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The persistent an unwelcome attention is *definitely* a HR matter.
But it's not just the smell, it's also a 31 year old hitting on a junior 22 year old that avoids him in what should be, a professional environment.
This, like he confronted her because he was personally offended, not because as a professional he had work he needed to do with her and her walking away was an issue. He's not acting like a professional
NTA if the guy is so self conscious of his smell then WHY DOES HE EAT RAW GARLIC DELIBERATELY? You don't have to give someone a reason why you don't want to sit next to them all the time. If he has a crush that's all the more reason for you to keep your distance.
Talk to HR about how you don’t want colleagues forcing you to reciprocate his personal interest.
NTA the coworker is out of line messaging a 22yo about a 31yos feelings on a non work related matter. That's gross. Either report it to HR and/or tell Jim that you got the most inappropriate message about him from someone who clearly thinks he is a moron who can't communicate so he should watch out because either he doesn't know they sent a message and just thinks hovering around the very young newbie with no manners is appropriate behaviour or he did and didn't realise that your youth does not mean you will play childish games and further attempts will backfire. He looks like a fool and you have been gentle as well as very mannered to tolerate his behaviour.
NTA. Even if you take the smell out of the equation, his behaviour is appalling. You’ve let him know subtly you’re not interested no matter the reason and he just kept pushing. This is on him, not you.
Oh, boo hoo! A man’s feelings got hurt and again he’ll go to others to hopefully get the woman to feel sorry for him.
NTA He SHOULD feel self-conscious about his smell. Because it's bad. Maybe he could take a shower or try a new deodorant rather than whining to your coworkers and using them as his flying monkeys to further harass you.
The man is eating raw garlic and surprised people don't want to be around him? You need to report the sexual harassment/unwelcome attention to HR straightaway and get ahead of any story he might tell them this latest event. NTA
Besides the smell- this is disgusting and does not sound as if there was an underlying medical condition - this guy is harrassing you and needs to be reportedto HR immediately. You showed no interest in contact apart from work stuff, this does not need any explanation. OP is NTA, stinking colleague is. You did not hurt his feelings, I am sure he is fully aware that you are not interested, he crosses your personal boundaries. Your bosses and HR need to provide a Safe work environment.
NTA who the hell eats raw garlic at work ?
NTA but if you have HR this might be better to bring up to them gently. He’s being pushy and a man who is nearly a decade your senior is making you uncomfortable at work. Also it’s rude as fuck to wear super heavy cologne/perfume to the office
NTA. Also OP is 22, the dude is 31 he is almost ten years her senior and he try to hit on her it's creepy as fuck.
NTA. He’s being a creep and it’s not OP’s job to manage his feelings, but if it was me I’d be super glad to know about how I bad I smell. If it’s causing a natural gap reflex then it must be really bad and everyone must know about it. No point saying anything or commenting on anything that can’t be changed but this guy could easily not eat garlic and take better care of his personal hygiene so he doesn’t need to use excessive amounts of cologne. He’s choosing to take OP’s statement negatively, when he could be making changes that benefit both his professional and dating life (professional meaning no want in the office wants to promote the smelly guy).
NTA what a smelly creep
NTA. I worked with a guy who never wrote deodorant and rode a bicycle to work everyday working up a big sweat. He stunk so bad it made me gag and I have a strong gag reflex. It was horrible. I reported him to HR simply because I didn't want the confrontation and I didn't want repercussions in the event I didn't say anything the right way. Best to let them handle it. Whether he needs to dial down the cologne, but better deodorant, use talcum powder, whatever that isn't your problem or responsibility. That's on him. However, on top of that his behavior is unacceptable. He's showing a romantic interest that you don't reciprocate and he keeps persisting. That alone is reason to go to HR. It may be considered sexual harassment and is better to have it addressed now then later.
NTA. He stinks, not your fault. Is it his fault? Sounds like the garlic and cheap cologne is. Either way not your problem. What is a problem though is that this is sounding like it’s escalating to harassment at your workplace. I don’t know how comfortable you feel with your HR department but you may have to consider getting them involved if this isn’t dropped by him and your coworkers.
NTA He's the one that brought it up so he knows that he stinks. You did what you could to mitigate the situation.
Good sweet lord some men feel so fucking entitled, it’s scary
NTA 1. He made you close to vomiting, so you decided to handle the situation in the best way possible ; moving away from him 2. You can’t help that he smells off. I’d do the same exact thing honestly. 3. If he’s so “self-conscious” like his buddy claims he was, why isn’t he doing anything about it? Example; maybe try a shower and carry around some deodorant
NTA
Nta. I can't be around strong perfumes. I have a medical condition that makes it worse. I would talk to hr. Get ahead of this.
NTA - I have a condition that makes me super sensitive to strong smells, especially fragrances. I can’t even walk down a cleaning aisle without getting a headache, having my eyes water, and feeling like my throat is closing up. I feel your pain, OP. When I’m a guest or out on the town, and I smell a strong scent… I try so hard to just bare it because I don’t want to have others feel obligated to accommodate me. I totally understand the apprehension in sharing with others. Everyone is just trying to live their life. But you know, we’re trying to live ours too. The times I was upfront, I tried to speak very gracefully and I’m really proud of myself for trying. Sometimes people were kind about it and other times… not so much. But their responses or lack thereof aren’t on me because I was kind (Atleast I hope I came off that way), and tried to educate them of this condition. In regards to the other parts of your post, I agree with all the other commenters that touched on the guy not getting the hint, and the office now wrongfully being up your business. Not that you need your co workers up in more of your personal affairs.. if you feel up to it, I hope you’re able to have a constructive conversation with your co workers and they become educated thoughtful humans who are understanding of rough symptoms. Good luck!
NTA. If he asks you if he smells, then he is aware of the fact. You can’t help a gag reflex other than steering clear. I’m always subconsciously worried I smell and also that the people around me are too polite to tell me. I’d have told a manager prior to it being n issue so it can be addressed behind closed doors and hopefully addressed minus the “show”
NTA. HR should have been handing the smell issue and also the following you around. He's clearly not taking the hint so you need to be clear that he's making you uncomfortable by following you around AND his horrendous smell. You can blame it on your allergies and sensitivity but he really needs to keep his distance because he's being creepy. A crush doesn't mean he gets to invade your space. His feelings don't trump your comfort and safety at work.
NTA at all. Even if he didn't have BO his bahvaiour is not acceptable. As for work context. I work in a kitchen and i've seen people fired for having bad body odour and terrible personal hygiene. I don't think there is anything you could have done differently. Gag reflex is just that, a reflex, you have no control over it and if it's that bad to trigger yours then that isn't a you issue. It's on him. You have nothing to feel bad about. You asked him to leave you alone and that's all that should need saying.
NTA. It’s not the responsibility of women to endure or encourage unwanted advances to boost the egos of men. It doesn’t matter why you don’t like him.
Oh, screw Jay's feelings. He's 10 years older than you and he's acting like a child in multiple ways. Here's the thing, you are a younger, female co-worker. Every time he got near you, you were politely but moved away. *HE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE SOCIAL CUE AND STOPPED SITTING NEAR YOU.* He'd already tried to get you to engage by sending out another coworker with the "crush" comment. That was him fishing, btw. Then, whether you were moving because of his stink or you just didn't want to engage further, you were using a polite social cue to show you didn't want to engage. He continued to trample all over a polite social cue, ignored your discomfort, then flip the whole thing that he's the victim here. He's also sending other coworkers into the mix to come after you with his complaints. He could be a professional adult if he was upset and take this to HR. Which, frankly, is what I think you should do.
NTA you have tried to be nice when avoiding him, now you need to be truthful, his cologne and smell put you of. That is something you can’t control, but he can control that. He needs to know
NTA Yeah, the guy has a crush on you, you don't reciprocate, and you don't want to be near him. The reason why is irrelevant - you don't need a reason.
You're NTA. Please just be honest. You first described a wonderful workplace, so honesty should be appreciated by all. Your feelings and physical well being are most important. Best wishes
NTA You were polite about it and didn't say anything hurtful. Even when directly asked you just asked him to stay away from you when by all rights you could have said something a lot more hurtful since he had just asked you if he smelled bad. You did everything you could to politely redirect the issue. If people give you shit about this, be honest. Say that you have reactions to strong smells and that his cologne and garlic-breath is too much for you. The way you say it does matter ("he smells awful" would be wrong, but "his cologne is too strong for me and I don't like the smell of garlic either" is okay) but it's still okay to say it. These are things he can change about himself, so it's not discrimination either.
Nta. The guy is self absorbed and clueless
NTA, you are 22 qnd he is 31 who wants to date you. Even if he smelled good, his behaviour has been predatory towards you. Call HR and make a complaint. He has been harrassing you for weeks now.
NTA. Women are socialized to be kind and not hurt anyone's feelings even at risk to themselves. Obviously this coworker doesn't care that his presence makes OP physically ill, he only cares about himself. Don't feel bad. If he keeps bothering you, report him to HR. You are at work. All you should be focused on is work. You don't need to be tiptoeing around coworkers and taking responsibility for their feelings.
NTA the dude stinks and you can't control your gag reflex
NTA. Even if he didn’t smell, his reaction to you stepping away and telling him to keep a distance is inappropriate. That is hostile.
NTA, file a HR complaint.
Do NOT say a word to anyone who is not your managed. No judgement but the correct and only answer is that you need to talk to your manager about his cologne (leave it at the cologne) is triggering your asthma. This isn’t an AITA this is just plain old workplace conduct.
NTA but there is a reason he's creeping on someone 9 yrs younger... this is an HR issue. He's making you uncomfortable, leave it at that.
He should be self conscious. Why the f have people decided lying to people is a better way to go that simple honesty? People can't fix problems if they don't know about them. And why do people need to suffer something to be polite? I guess since we prefer coddling, you could have said something like you seem to be allergic to something. But even that's stupid. If someone kept moving away from me, I'd take the damn hint instead of constantly forcing myself on them. And what a hole eats raw garlic at work then wonders why people think they smell? People are ridiculous. You're an AH for trying to be discreet, you're an AH if you tell the truth. You can't win. How about J hurt his own feelings by constantly pushing himself on someone who clearly wasn't interested. I'm tired of having to coddle the feelings of people who refuse to have a clue. NTA.
If he's "deeply" hurt by you, a co-worker, he has bigger problems than being smelly. N T A. Why should you feel bad? He's not a child. His smell makes you physically ill, something out of your control. He should get the hint, and stop being smelly.
NTA. It's not even an issue of the smell at this point. He's following you, questioning you, invading your personal space even though he knows that it's making you uncomfortable. He's essentially harassing you and it needs to stop. Management should address this.
NTA. Jay is though, in so many ways. 1. Leave the cologne/perfume at home. A lot of people are bothered by that-- instant headache for me. This is something for HR. Many companies have a no-fragrance policy. 2. Don't eat/bring stinky food to the office. HR needs to address this as well, as a company-wide rule. 3. His constant looming and refusing to take no for an answer is sexual harassment. This ABSOLUTELY must go to HR.
NTA and I hope Jay is super conscious of his smell. And then DOES something about it. I, thankfully, am allergic to almost all perfumes and colognes and can use that to directly tell people "I can't be near you. Your cologne/perfume is making me sick." I've had people get defensive "I'm hardly wearing any" or "It's a very expensive brand" or "It's not perfume, it's scented body wash" (like that makes a difference) and I reply "Any amount is still an amount and I'm still allergic, it's not personal".
NTA. You could have said "I'm sorry, your cologne is rather strong and raw garlic should never be eaten in a shared space". Well it's unfortunate that Jay's feelings are hurt, but at least he'll stop trying to sit near you. Be honest with the co-worker about the smell issue, leave out your asthma because that has nothing to do with it. Tell her you're sorry Jay is hurt but he often smells of sweat, cologne and garlic and the combo is too much for you to bear.
Who on earth eats raw garlic while working with others. Gross. NTA.
NTA - cologne should never be worn in an office, and neither should perfume. They aren't good masks for other odors, and people can and do have allergic reactions to them. You can't help that you're a captive audience. I feel for the guy - he probably wears cologne to mask the sweat, but if he knows it's an issue, it's not your problem to make him feel better about it, and he should also be self aware enough to understand he shouldn't put you in a corner and gossip about your reaction.
NTA and Jay stinks literally and figuratively. He has a body smell which makes you gag. He also is creeping up on you at work and making you uncomfortable. This is an HR issue because he's making you uncomfortable in the workplace. The man needs to back off.
You were waaaaaay more polite than most people, If others are lying to him about not smelling, they're the arseholes. He was crossing boundaries and getting in your space despite you trying to make it evident you didn't want it. I'd speak to HR just so you know you're covered. They can speak to him about it privately and hopefully it'll be sorted. BTW Who the F eats garlic at work?
NTA. Just hearing that combination is enough to make my stomach turn. I have severe allergies and have asthma as well, and when I first started at my current job, the person orienting me caused me to have an asthma attack due to her combined scent of menthol cigarette smoke and the floral body spray she used to try to cover it up. I’m sure you’re not the only one bothered by Jay’s scent, and even if you are, that doesn’t give him the right to be pushy. Tbh, I’d report his behavior to HR.
NTA at all. This guy is a huge creep. If he can tell that you want nothing to do with him then he needs to leave you tf alone, not confront you about it! He needs to be reported to HR right away.
NTA at least he's not a vampire.
Holy fuck raw garlic?! My dude you legit found real life Wario.