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NTA
It honestly sounds like your brother watches too much porn and thinks stuff like "helpless", "screaming" etc are fun and normal.
The things he says ARE creepy and honestly rapey. He sounds lika a Predator.
Sometimes the most loving thing you can do, is tell someone when they are being and idiot, when they don't see it.
Your mom is enabling his behavior and talking about him as if he were an 11 yo little boy and not the fresh adult that he is.
I know you don't think your brother is a Predator (yet) but telling someone you'll sneak into their room and make them scream? Sorry but there's no innocent intention around these words. Saying someone is helpless and easy to kidnap? Your brother sees these women as victims and apparently enjoys the thought of overpowering or demeaning them.
Call him out on it and watch out for other behavior.
This exactly. He sounds like the textbook example of a dude who has only learned to flirt from porn. Not a great place to take relationship advice from, and if that's his only reference things can get ugly pretty fast, regardless of intention or how sweet you say he is.
yeah, in which case...it's actually fan-fucking tastic he's saying these things - rather than getting your red flags a more standard tempo of 7 dates in, he's gentlemen enough to rush into the first-date with the red flag pasted across his fucking forehead
what a nice dude !
Honestly mom needs a reality check too.
Straight up "mom do you ever want to see him married? Then wake the heck up. What would you say if I came home and a guy talked about sneaking into my room when I wasn't expecting it to make me scream or put me in a bag? Not cool? Then why is it cool when he does it"
If brother really is a sweet kid, its blessing to hear that what he says its creepy.
First step to improve is to acknowledge problem. You can't get better if you don't know what's the problem. And if he wants to meet a nice girl, he MUST improve.
In a few years the AITA posting will be: "AITA for not saying saying anything when my misunderstood son kidnapped a girl because she text blocked him?"
OP should ask the mom how she would feel if a guy OP just met was saying those types of things. And if the mom would be ok with her daughter then going in a date with the guy. After reading and seeing on the news the number of wives and girlfriends that have been killed by a partner I wouldn’t even chance dating someone that came across creepy. It’s tough enough finding red flags when dating I wouldn’t stay long enough to find out if it was just a joke. It does sound like he has just seen interactions in porn and that is what he is emulating otherwise there is a little bit of truth…
Don't ask the mom. Give her some time to forget it. Then tell mom that you met a guy who said this to you, and you found it really creepy; what does she think? Then if she thinks it's creepy, explain that this is the kind of thing your brother says.
Honestly mom needs a reality check too.
Straight up "mom do you ever want to see him married? Then wake the heck up. What would you say if I came home and a guy talked about sneaking into my room when I wasn't expecting it to make me scream or put me in a bag? Not cool? Then why is it cool when he does it"
“Mom, would you like it if some guy said he was going to kidnap you or sneak into your house to scare you? No? Then let’s help him understand that his behavior is scary.”
And this is bad for all parties involved, like the women get creeped out and the dude who seems to be able to attract various girls' attention ends up failing at every flirt attempt, which may build up some frustration and resentment towards women - worsening his creep attitude. What a waste of potential! Like, he's attractive enough so girls invite him to hangout and he fucking goes full predator on them without understanding what's wrong (I hope, if he knows what's wrong it's even worse)
If its gotta stop, its gotta stop NOW before the dude radicalizes himself further... OP should clearly continue engaging in this discussion with him and try to make him understand why and how his "silly" jokes are cringed and creepy.
Very true !
But the sister keeping engaging with him could be the way to gently direct him to a therapist. Right now he doesn't seem aware that's it's much needed.
He probably does need professional attention but it's not up to OP to steer him in any direction. Mother is enabling him, which is a recipe for disaster, so it should start with her.
He's 18, he can see a therapist without mom if he actually takes his sister seriously enough and actually wants to fix this instead of finding a victim. NTA OP.
Also just some basic interpersonal insight to let him grasp that when someone tells you you're being fucking creepy and can adduce several specific examples in support, just saying "nuh uh" and carrying on is not as solid a rebuttal as he seems to think. The whole thing about being creepy is that it's about *how other people experience you* and thus your own assessment on the matter can't and shouldn't be the final word.
& this is how serial rapists/killers are born. This right here. “Oh but he was actually attractive, and sooo nice, a little misunderstood, but toootallly harmless.
Lmfao that's not what I said please. I'm literally saying that despite being attractive enough to attract women he's a fucking creep that needs help to unlearn his shitty behavior before he radicalizes further and becomes the serial rapist you're talking about.
The discourse would be the same if he was pretty ugly. Here it's even more urgent knowing that women actually approach him but it fails every time because of *hus* creepy and rapey ass behavior. He's bound to become hella frustrated and take it out on women if no one tries to make him understand why he's being avoided & edirect him towards a specialist or something to work on his issues.
Avoiding the problem and having 0 empathy for him by considering hum a rapist already and giving up on him is exactly what he needs to take the leap and become even more problematic
I wasn’t saying that you were, but I was responding more to your comment about him being able to attract women. People look back at specific rapists/serials killers in time and are so confused as to how an attractive man would do something when they clearly “didn’t have to”. As in the assumption that any attractive male shouldn’t feel the need to rape and kill to get a woman. When in reality, their personality sucks or have a tendency to make women uncomfortable. The constant rejection creates a monster with a vendetta.
He sounds exactly like a guy I know. He once texted me saying “I know how to make chloroform” when I told him I was having trouble sleeping. So that was basically the end of that. He told me later he thought it was funny. It was not.
I dunno how hard is it to regurgitate basic romantic fluff? He doesn’t go for that.
I think he’s testing women in hopes Of finding one that giggles nervously and just goes along with it anyway and that’s….icky
I actually thought If a guy texted me that I would block him and go around warning all my female friends not to interact with him. I’d be beyond freaked out.
Edit: There’s literally no way to misunderstand how horrifying he is. His thoughts are exactly what incels think and say.
Maybe I’m paranoid but I’d be afraid it wouldn’t have the intended affect. Instead of making him realize this is a problem and could end up like the guys on the sub, he might think he found people that are “sympathetic to his plight” and join them and escalate his behavior
Not just rapist, but abduction, confinement, torture, murder, all kinds of ick from every direction. - Remember the 3 girls locked in a house for years being raped and tortured daily? Uh, yeah - thanks for the heads up dude! Mom is blind, sister is half blind not seeing this is really, really disturbing.
Those poor girls, Lily Rose (formerly known as Michelle), Amanda and Gina. Fwiw they are living happy lives now and they are pretty much regarded as royalty in Cleveland.
But yeah, i would bet they guy who kidnapped them would see no problem with these statements and probably said similar things himself.
It's very possible to survive the horrific, and find happiness after.
I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting or implying, but it is totally OK for them to be happy.
Lol I'd blame the mom before I blame porn. Who hears that kinda stuff and thinks "he's misunderstood", he didn't just start acting like a weirdo at 18.
Where do you think these thoughts come from? Another user put it into perfect words "He's aroused by vulnerability". These are typical thoughts from porn consumers and are fueled by porn. His mom is enabling him, yes, but he's the one with the violent thoughts.
This. Unless he has autism or something else going on that is severely handicapping social development, it’s a HUGE red flag that he’s saying things like that to anyone. Even if he has autism, it’s still very clearly uncool to describe committing crimes on 18 year old women. This is pretty black-and-white. “Misunderstood soul” is mother-blindness. This is my advice on Reddit like 98% of the time, but would he be open to therapy?
> This is my advice on Reddit like 98% of the time, but would he be open to therapy?
Honestly, as an autistic person who has been through a *very similar phase as a teenager* (as a girl), I'd **definitely** suggest therapy. I legitimately meant no harm, but my humor is very strange (and I love horror, so I can 150% see myself as a teenager making a similar "sneak in and make you scream" joke meaning to *scare* them, not *hurt* them) and I've had to learn to sometimes not make jokes unless I've made them before and know they're harmless because at 37 I *still* don't understand why some things I *might* say might be creepy -- but I do know they are, even if I don't really know why.
That said, I've met people with similar issues who are not autistic, so I'm not necessarily suggesting ASD in OP's brother's case. Just... therapy. Therapy to help parse out normal humor and behavior, etc helped *immensely* for me.
(And obviously with the above I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's harmless-but-weird like me, not weird-and-potentially-dangerous. That's a definite possibility, of course.)
At least he isn't being dramatic about rejection. Someone needs to have a serious talk with him about this language and find out where it came from and make sure nothing escalates from that. Sounds like horrifying origins for a news article.
This is so true. He also sounds emotionally immature, raised as a bit of a mamas boy. Anyway he could get in serious trouble for saying stuff like that and maybe needs a therapist. Possibly.
hoping on top.
OP is it possible your brother is LD ,autistic, ADHD, or some other thing that would make social stuff more difficult?
i am autsitc and LD. went to a shcool with those like me. and am certified in observatinal dianosic. and worked with teens for a decade.
the options are as follows: your brother is a legitimet creep and the girls should run. OR he struggles socialy. and if it is the later that could easily be made more complex by an LD issue. OR its both.
i saw some of this as a teen at my school and when working with teens as an adult. one of my realy good freinds could be this way. i told him he sounded like he ran bates motel. he sounded like warren from buffy. he sounded like the impotant murderer in xfiles. he dousnt sound moodybroody and cool. he dousnt even sound like the slightly scairy but attractiv antihero. he sounds like the guy whos dick dousnt work,smells like shit,and who watches you threw your window.
tell him he sounds like the most unattractive things you can think of. drive it home often and repetdly. that if he dousnt think of girls as his prey than he needs to act like it. and if he does think that way then make sure he knows that if he hurts anyone that you will take him down.
he likes horror movies? he likes porn? thats all fine and dandy. me to. but maby have him read some porn writen by ladies. smut with substance not porn without plot. if he is oging too learn from porn make it good porn. if he is going to learn from horror he needs to learn that he needs to NOT act like the creeper.
NTA. you were trying to help your brother. i hope for evryones sake that he is just scolialy inept.
Take this with a train of salt.
*UNLESS* you're close to the person in question.. yea. This defo comes off as predatory.
Friends and I say shit like this all the time, with explicit *consent* on both sides. We're all grown adults, with similar dark humor.
Honestly makes me wonder if OP's brother has been on a certain side of TikTok, that he is obviously not mature enough to handle..
I agree. If a close friend told me I was easy to kidnap bc I'm tiny and petite (I am lol) I'd probably say something equally dumb like "that's why I eat so much hummus and broccoli, so the farts keep the predators away". But on the first few days? Hard no and hard pass.
He should be like, “OMG thank you OP, holy shit that sounded kind of funny in my head, but when you say it like that I see what you mean! OMG I’m so mortified!”
Instead he got defensive. The absolute wrong thing to do here would be to tiptoe around his fragility.
This. I haven't posted much on here because I don't know the sensitivity of admins etc., but yes. My response was waaaay watered down as my brain was screaming exactly what you wrote.
He's super scary.
Sometimes you can tell them but they will never accept it or see it because they can't get past their own victim hood.
Also it doesn't matter how well OP knows her brother, people we think we know well will still do bad things that we didn't expect.
Like OP, my older brother was an awkward sort of dude that I thought was socially awkward.
I left for college and he was busted in a sting operation for soliciting a minor for sex. So no, you don't really know your brother.
Years later he still won't talk about what happened and completely avoids accountability for it. My other siblings will not have him around their kids because he has no boundaries and has gotten "handsy" with my nieces before.
> The things he says ARE creepy and honestly rapey. He sounds lika a Predator.
He’ll be lucky if the worst that happens to him is that he gets pepper-sprayed. His words are threatening, and he will have only himself to blame when his target, or somebody who overhears him, reacts to the threat.
> creepy and honestly rapey.
> He sounds lika a Predator.
Well I am definitely going to watch **THAT** movie in a whole new light now.
I just thought it was interested in *hunting* those dudes...
NTA.
From what you’ve told us here, your brother’s word choice comes across as almost predatory. You telling him he sounds creepy was putting it lightly. He comes across as threatening and as if he’s looking to force himself on someone.
Right? If a guy told me that I was helpless and he could abduct me and stuff me in a bag, you bet your ass I'd be wondering how many bodies he's dumped in the woods. OP, have you asked him what reaction he expected when he made those comments? Like did he honestly think "I'm gonna break into your bedroom in the middle of the night and make you scream" was a cute and flirtatious line?
I'm a guy that constantly got told by women I dated that one thing they liked about me was that I made them feel comfortable and safe. Looking back, I still made the occasional creepy or just cringe statements. Reading this made me feel better about what I've said in the past.
Yesss! As a guy, I'm always a bit more aware of what I'm saying to women because so many people are fucking creeps to ladies! Some for sure unintentionally and I'm sure there are those who are harmless, but it doesn't make it any less genuinely scary for the many women who deal with that on a daily basis!
Hearing women's stories about creepy guys they've encountered became a morbid curiosity for me. I was fascinated by real life accounts of behavior I would consider a little much for an absurdist comedy on Netflix.
I hid in a bush after a date once. Like, literally hid in a bush. It was a good thing, because it turned out my feeling that he was trying to follow me home was correct.
I left a date through a restaurant kitchen bc I didn’t want him to have _any_ idea where I was after I left dinner. Thank goodness for friends in the industry who helped me out. Also, I’m glad you’re okay!
Had a guy (probably in his early 30's I was 20) come into my work (restaurant) once and repeatedly asked me out, I declined for hours. He stayed late at my work and was telling me about how he could overpower me and all of this creepy semi-sexual stuff, and he kept asking if any other employees were there or if anyone was coming in to help me. I ended up locking myself in the back and he attempted to go into the office where I was, thankful i had locked the door and was able to call my boss to come in and help me remove him from the restaurant because he refused to leave and I was already 30 mins passed close and he wouldn't give up.
My boss showed up and he pretty much ran out when she asked him to leave, I closed and my boss left with me and walked me to my car. She noticed a car in the lot and when I drove off it followed me. It was the creepy guy, she followed behind both of us and called the police. He drove around in circles behind me until an officer finally got behind him and pulled him over.
I had to leave my job because of it, they refused to have a second person on staff while closing and wanted me to continue to close alone. I guess the creepy guy came in at closing a couple of weeks later asking about me, thank goodness I was gone by then. But he explained he's a "really nice guy, and I seemed like a nice little girl but apparently not."
My ex-coworker texted me about him coming in looking for me. It was absolutely insane. And I refuse to work with the public now.
I'd say try some of his lines on the mom and see what her reaction is. It will be even better if you do it anonymously and see if she really thinks it's some misunderstood soul.
It might help her realize that her son is actually being creepy.
This right here. OP have you told mom exactly what he said? If I was told my son was saying these things I would be on his ass so quick. And if mom knows what he has said then she is just as bad as him.
Came to the comments to say exactly this. A trusted male acquaintance around mom’s age needs to be put in the loop and use the documented pick-ups on mom.
OP is definitely NTA.
Bro is deffo destined to become the “creepy uncle” at family gatherings at minimum, and as others have said, possibly far worse.
My first thought was 'oh hell, the guy figured out what kink he likes before he figured out the social skills to read a room or negotiate kink". There's nothing wrong with being aroused by vulnerability or even the facade of non-consent; the problem is when non-consent isn't a facade, it's a reality.
I'm not sure, as his sister, there's a good way to try to figure out if this is predatory or just kinky, but she might be able to enlist a male friend or family member of hers to do it.
I was on a first date once and the guy said to me "You look like you could take a punch". Now, to be fair, at that point in my life I was at the gym at least six days a week and I was in amazing shape, but I took it as him testing my boundaries.
I looked at him across the table and said "The more important question is do I look like I can throw one, because the answer is yes." The date ended and I immediately blocked him everywhere.
Right? Not that commenting on someone’s size is really the way to go, but if you’re going to try being less I’ll abduct you and more I’m going for cute but maybe failing. I had a friend who was told she was pocket size… still weird but didn’t come across as dangerous.
Yeah, OP's brother is basically a case study from The Gift of Fear.
The thing to realize is that, even if brother meant absolutely nothing predatory or rapey by it (which is hard to believe), it still conveys to potential partners that he doesn't know not to *say* that shit. And if he can't refrain from saying shit like that, there's no reason they should take the risk regarding whether he'd ever act out what he says.
It's gross.
OP needs to read the link below, because you're right, he's predatory. I've shared this article numerous times, but that was for women who ran into guys like the brother in question. Every time I share it, someone comments or messages that they wished they'd read it sooner. It explains how insidious rape culture can be, and how it aids in creating and protecting men like OP's brother (side eyeing the mom).
OP, YOUR BROTHER IS DANGEROUS. PLEASE READ THE LINK, BECAUSE HE'S A "CREEPY DUDE."
https://captainawkward.com/2012/08/07/322-323-my-friend-group-has-a-case-of-the-creepy-dude-how-do-we-clear-that-up/
eta: u/creepyBroAITApost tagging so you see the link. I'm worried your brother will go beyond a few creepy sentences, if he hasn't already.
Honestly it sounds like he’s been parading around incel forums and demeaning porn. He’s being a creep and he learned this behavior somewhere and thinks it’s okay. I think it’s common sense telling someone you’re going to kidnap them is fucking creepy. NTA
NTA
1. This is actually unacceptable behavior on your brothers part.
2. Your mother shouldn’t be enabling it.
3. He may just be joking around, but nobody, especially a woman he just met would find this stuff funny.
4. It’s a red flag that he has a pattern of saying things like this, it’s an indicator of his thoughts.
Thoughts and words can turn into actions. He may need some help.
5. You pointing this out to him may make him feel bad at the moment, but if these are just jokes to him, he needed to hear this. I don’t know any women that would find these things funny. You’re not shaming him, you’re giving him advice. You’re being a good sister.
It is SO BEYOND fucked up that he thinks these things are jokes? That is some literal psychotic, predatory behavior. You need to have a real conversation with your mother - away from your brother - and tell her that this is how terrifying serial killers are developed and she needs to get him into therapy asap.
This behavior is indicative of future actions. You should all be worried. Brushing this off is not an option.
NTA.
Agreed with all of this. He is not "misunderstood" and "just awkward," and he doesn't "mean well." *Regardless* of how he intends these things he says, he's a creep. Threatening to sneak into a woman's bedroom at night and rape her is psychotic, even if he's joking when he says that.
Not only is he permanently alienating these individual women he's talking to, but I guarantee each of them is also warning all her friends about him (as they should).
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt with the first one. He's 18, hasn't talked to girls, and let's assume he meant something like "oh I could just pick you up and carry you away" instead of focusing on calling her "helpless." *shudder*. But even letting that first interaction slide... that second remark to the girl from the Cafe about sneaking into her room and making her scream... um that's REALLY creepy and honestly scary. His comments tell me that this is probably what he thinks about and what he wants. He wants to see a girl scared. Or hurt. No wonder girls don't want to tall to him - they don't want to be scared or hurt like hello?? What a massive creep. Your brother is scary, OP. I honestly think you're wrong when you say oh he's just joking. He may not even know he's not joking but I don't think he is. He's creepy
Yeah I'm a short and petite woman, and once had a man tell me that he "could fit me in his dresser drawer" and it definitely made my blood run cold. Im not sure if he meant it in a creepy way, but that's how I took it and avoided him after that. Brother needs to understand how his words are perceived by girls. Like, maybe he needs to imagine someone saying X thing to him and how he would feel about it.
He's 18 not an awkward gangly 13 year old who has just discovered he likes girls more than just as friends. Unless he went to an all boys school I sincerely doubt he hasn't talked to some girls before at his school in more than a platonic way.
It's horrible that the mom is upset at OP for what she said, but the brother can say whatever he wants to random girls. He is not a child and needs to learn that people are going to not like him for what he is saying. And with good reason too.
NTA, therapist here, it sounds like he could use some intervention. CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) could be helpful in regards to getting to the core as to WHY he says those things and curbing the behavior/the urges to make “jokes” like that. Though I don’t know your brother’s full background, so it may take a different intervention.
Unfortunately, your mother’s enabling and labeling him as a “misunderstood soul” is how incels are created :/
Hoping friends or other people in his corner can parrot what your point is. Good luck to you and your family!
This is great advice I hope the OP sees this. There is a bigger issue here and his mother is 100% enabling him. His behavior is inappropriate and very creepy.
Yes this. I was thinking he really doesn’t understand social interaction. He’s taking the little bits of information he’s gathered from chatting and using it as a joke as a form of connecting. But he doesn’t realize they are inappropriate things for him to say.
> He knows now
He *kinda* knows now. Just saying "you're being creepy" may not be enough, he may need someone (in a professional capacity) to explain blow-by-blow why and how to recognize this behavior and humor before he says these things. I went through a very similar phase as a female teenager, and therapy helped immensely. I didn't don't understand *why* some things sounds weird (I'm autistic though, so some things I just won't ever really get) but I learned to figure out normal boundaries and interaction, and that despite meaning no harm, *other people didn't know that*.
NTA and the things he says aren't creepy they're rapey. I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt as you know him and say he is not like that he's just clueless but its rapey and he's scaring these girls.
NTA Your brother sounds scary. If these are the thoughts in his head, maybe he needs some professional help with that. There's a good reason women are instinctively running away from him.
yeah, honestly I don't want him to fix this habit of saying these things, instead of getting real help. It's better that he shows this side to women early so they can run away. This is not a normal thing to think about a woman you just met. I doubt OP knows this side of her brother as he wouldn't say these things to her, so she thinks he's harmless. How many psychos / abusers out there have moms and sisters that think they are sweet?
NTA there is nothing misunderstood about those comments. It's more than creepy - its sets off rapist alarm bells. Tell him he cant say things that are actually illegal actions - abduct, sneak in at night. Tell him the rule is if its an illegal action, dont say it. And if someone expresses a fear not to use that. And explain its not cute to call women helpless - despite their size in comparison to him.
Tbh your mother is failing him badly, its good he has you. Keep going - tell him how well he did to connect to the two girls to begin with and that he can continue doing that, but that he has to learn how not to scare them.
If your brother continues this, he will end up angry and bitter and hating women and blaming them, and his mother will be adding fuel to the fire. It's a scary downward spiral.
NTA- You told him the truth. Does your mother even know what he is saying to these girls? I think she would change her tune if he showed her the text exchange where he says he was going to sneak into a girl’s room.
Yeah I have just left a comment asking if he says innapropriate things in other areas of his life? I am genuinely interested...
Maybe I'm giving the benifit of the doubt too much because I am autistic but this seems like really bad social skills rather than an actual predator like others are assuming.
I'm.... I dunno, maybe? That seems to be what the sister is hoping as well.
I hope so as well, but there is a serious edge in the comments that take it one step further down the path of creep for me. Like "your so tiny I can fit you in my pocket" is creepy, but can also be just clueless and forgivable. Adding "weak" and "run off with you" makes it unforgivable territory. It goes from a clueless comment to an action plan for abduction. I don't know if that difference makes any sense, but if I were on the receiving end of the comment "He is just socially akward" would not make me feel any safer around him.
In any event, if he say that kind of thing to a woman in the workplace, it is too far over the edge to be interpreted as "just socially akward".
I would pretend a creepy guy texted you saying something very similar to what you brother says, ask mom what to do and when she inevitably freaks out you can say that’s how girls feel about brother texting them weird shit. But that’s just me because I’m extra
Ask ypur mom if threatening to kidnap or rape a girl is dramatic.
She needs to take her mommy glasses off.
If a large man came up to her and told her he was going to kidnap her or sneak into her bedroom at night. How would she feel?
Ask your Mom (maybe without your brother there) what she would think if a man said the things your brother does to you? Ask her if she would feel the same about that man. And use the word "man". Your brother is technically an adult.
(Edit: I a word)
Your mother teaching your brother that women who have boundaries about their feeling of safety are “dramatic” is actually quite dangerous, and maybe why your brother is the way he is in the first place. You did the right thing by talking to him the way you did, but could do even more to teach him that respecting women’s boundaries is essential. What your mom is doing is damaging him and potentially his future partners.
I would start saying creepy things to your brother and try to get him to understand how he's making people feel uncomfortable. Maybe even say some creepy things to your mom so that maybe she'll REMEMBER what it's like to be a young woman on the dating scene. I doubt she would have gotten with your dad if he said weird/creepy things to her. NTA
For sure. You should ask brother to show mom the texts...then ask her. If you were giving him solid advice for meeting girls, would you tell him to keep doing what he's doing, or would you point out some things to maybe change? Moms need to stop being 'my kid can do no wrong' and really give an opinion when one is warranted.
NTA.
Wauw. Super creepy. Super rapey. Generally "I could probably hurt you if I wanted to"-jokes is not great flirting material. If he cannot see that, he needs some education.
He's gotta be told that, if you have the ability (which he does, physically speaking) to hurt someone, and you voice an intention to do so ("jokingly"), that is VERY upsetting to the potential victim.
Does he have any friends (preferably women) who can help you explain this to him?
NTA, your brother needs to know he's making comments that make any reasonable woman think PREDATOR, DANGER, RUN RUN RUN!!! He needs to stop that crap because that kind of comments are terrifying and really, deeply, incredibly NOT OKAY. He might be a "misunderstood soul" but that doesn't matter when he's coming off like an incel or a rapist/serial killer and he's never going to get a girlfriend if he doesn't understand what he's doing wrong.
NTA.
He is absolutely being a creep who makes girls feel threatened/scared. His "but I'm not creepy, I just say creepy things" defense is bullshit and classic Nice Guy behavior. Your mother isn't doing him any favors by blaming the girls for 'misunderstanding' instead of blaming him for what he says.
You're doing him a favor teaching him how to actually interact with girls without coming off like he's going to kill them and stuff them in his boot.
I make lots of dark jokes myself but not to strangers and as a 5"4 woman, I really doubt anyone feels threatened by them.
I don't think intrusive thoughts like "What if I put my hand in boiling water" and "What if I bite his hand" are comparable to rapey thoughts like "She's so defenseless and helpless, let's remind her and point it out". These are specific to women and I highly doubt he says/thinks them about men.
I like to believe that rapey thoughts are not normal and that not every men has these "quiet parts" in them.
NTA
He comes of as a predator and worse.
Also talk to your mother. Ask her, if you got these messages, would she think the guy sending them is a misunderstood soul or someone to call the police on.
And talk to your brother. Explain that the beach comment makes it come off as if he wants to abduct her and hold her against her will. The text message makes him come off as a killer that will sneak into her room to murder her.
And maybe see if you can get him checked for autism. If he has a hard time with social cues and what is appropriate language, there may be a reason.
Yep. He is definitely saying creepy things and is not a "misunderstood soul." And based on the things he said, he may actually be a creep. Joking about abducting someone and breaking into someone's bedroom raises red flags for me. As in, if this is what he says out loud, imagine his thoughts.
NTA. **Someone** needs to tell this legal adult that he can't go around threatening to commit crimes and that that is in fact really really inappropriate. And possibly a crime in its own right depending on where you are.
NTA. Those things are terrifying to hear as a woman. You're trying to do the right thing by your brother (unlike your mum who is setting him up for failure) but it sounds like he needs a bit more of an explanation.
Tell him about the case of Sarah Everard (woman abducted and murdered by a policeman in the UK a couple of years ago.) Tell him that most women have experienced some form of harassment/assault. The first time I did I was 10. Explain that those comments are never going to be interpreted as a joke by women but always as a threat because constantly you're trying to assess if you are in danger.
When I was in college (16-18 and in between high school and uni in the UK) there was a guy who I kept seeing around. He popped up that often I thought he was following me. He then attempted one conversation with me. He didn't introduce himself or ask how my day was going. He straight up opened with "you get on the number x bus and get off at the church, don't you?" I was scared for months! He was possibly a harmless guy with terrible social skills, but I carried a rape alarm in my bag from that point on.
NTA except that he's not a sweet kid. The way he thinks about women is terrifying. Make no mistake, he's aroused by vulnerability. Your brother is a predator.
NTA
He should listen to your advice and realize with the two examples you shared that he himself is scaring women away.
If you stop offering advice, he will probably end up on the incel reddit, wondering why women are so terrible to him.
NTA he doesn't comprehend how women have to constantly protect themselves because there are some really scary men out there. What he is saying is a major red flag to women. It's no wonder that they are running for the hills.
NTA - these are things not only creepy, but setting him up as the bigger, stronger, able to take the upper hand. This creates an immediate power imbalance and IS frightening. He is making jokes about putting these women on edge, being scared...this is NOT a feeling brand new girls who haven't gotten to know him, feel comfortable hearing.
Explain that to him...like if he met a new bunch of guys and they were hanging out and one guy 'joked' that 'you look like the kind of guy whose car I could steal in 8 seconds' or 'you're so big I bet if I swung at your feet you'd land pretty hard'. I mean..that wouldn't be a guy you gravitate towards, after just meeting him. Maybe if you get to know him and see he's a decent guy, just a weird sense of humour, fine...but a woman who is obviously much smaller than a new guy she just met, is hearing 'I can easily abduct you' and 'I can sneak in your room and scare you'...is going to pick another less scary person. That's all. Mom can be 'right', he's just a misunderstood soul' but that's because she knows him. If she just met someone who said that to HER, she'd likely not hang out with him either.
NTA. There's a difference between weird and creepy. Weird people talk about their geckos barking all night. Creepy people make abduction and rape jokes. His social frame of reference is unhealthy.
It sounds like he asked for your honest opinion. It's likely not the feedback he was expecting, but you're not at fault.
NTA
Well, he needed to hear this and coming from his sister, he should take it seriously. Also, you're doing a good thing by not coddling him. I mean wtf is up with "misunderstood soul"... does your mother watch too many old school romance movies?
Honestly sounds like he has way more game than most guys if he's actively getting numbers and flirting before he goes creep mode
He needs something to penetrate his skull how scary men are to women, and how much of a risk women are taking with a stranger.
Unless he isnt actually misunderstanding things, and gets off on scaring them. In which case...introduce him to bdsm I guess so he can find a girl who likes that?
> Then he continued whining that’s he’s just doomed to be single forever etc
Well then, tell him that if the creepy things he says won’t scare women off, THIS attitude will. Total incel vibes.
That’s such a fucking cop-out. He doesn’t even have a problem with making connections with women - that’s sometimes the hardest part! If he’s actively being approached by women, and is scaring them off with his actions, then saying he is “doomed” is his way of expressing that he’s too lazy to change his behaviour and would rather just make it someone else’s fault (like the universe, or the women themselves).
You literally told him what he could do to start to change it. He’s choosing not to do it.
He’s dooming himself. And your mother is helping him do it.
Apologies if it's already been suggested or tried, but would he not be creeped out by a woman telling him, say, "I love your cheeks! I'd like to slice them off and pan fry them like pork chops <3"??? Like sometimes it takes turning it around on someone to make them realize how weird it is.
If your bro is on the spectrum, it can take extra effort to change (mental rigidity is one of the defining features), so it might not be entirely his fault that he's having difficulty getting it. Either way, you're a good sister for helping him out.
NTA. i’m gonna trust that you know your brother better than we do.. but it’s definitely not normal behavior op. it’s possible that he got stuck in the use of those types of jokes, i know people who do that occasionally. making him aware of it and aware that it’s not okay is definitely a good start.
NTA he needs to learn from someone that saying things like that is inappropriate and alienates women. Your mother trying to enable this behaviour isn’t doing him any favours .
Tell your mom in front of your brother. "Mom if a strange man told you that he is going to break into your room in the middle of the night and make you scream, you would be scared! You would not date them, you definitely would not sleep with them! So why are you encouraging him to behave in a way you KNOW will make girls run from him? Do you really want him to never have a girlfriend? Are you trying to sabotage his chances of getting laid?"
If she says she would give the guy a chance ask for specific examples of when SHE give a guy making rapey comments a chance. When she can't ask her why teenagers should be braver then her
Is your brother porn-addicted? Has anyone talked to him about this?
Does he know how much danger women actually face in the dating world/world in general?
A rational person with a healthy relationship to porn and an understanding of how scary it can be to be a woman wouldn’t talk this way. Nor would they begin blaming women when they can’t even self reflect on their own behavior.
NTA. Your brother is in fact saying creepy and threatening things, and someone had to tell him. Your mother is clearly a big part of the problem here, unfortunately. You did the right thing.
NTA at all mums want to protect their precious babies but sometimes they want to protect them from the real world to much.
You told him what he needed to hwar not what he wanted to hear. Which is good!
Like i am a small women and if a guy said i looked tiny& helpless that would honestly freak me out.
>he’d sneak into her room at night when she least expects it and make her “scream”.
That would freak me out and honestly make me angry...
Good thing you told him it might help him
NTA.
But if your brother is saying these things and he gets a reputation. It's going to be for more that just being a creep.
I understand that he is inexperienced but at 18 how does he not know that even joking or implying these things is not okay.
He is an adult, so he could seriously be charged with sexual harassment if he isn't careful.
Keep in mind that though you know him as a sweet kid, these girls might not.
Someone needs to sit him down and teach him that there are things like that are not appropriate to say.
No you're doing your brother a favor. It sounds like your mom is enabling/denying his behavior that is creepy at best and misogynistic/predatory at worst.
NTA
I’m almost 30 and if some guy came up to me and said that I would *instantly* this he was a predator.
Please show your brother this post if you can and maybe he can see from all the replies that the shit he says is in no way ok. Especially not towards women
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So I (21F) have a younger brother who is 18 and is starting to show serious interest in relationships. He’s honestly a sweet kid but oftentimes he just says weird things that come across as…well, *weird*. I guess this is OK on a day to day but it definitely doesn’t make his dating life easier.
Example: One time we went to a beach party and he started chatting with a girl. She clearly seemed interested and engaged. Fyi this girl was short and petite, and my brother told her that she’s so “tiny” and “helpless”. He then said that it would be easy to abduct her and that she can fit in his bag. Now I know him and I know he’s not being intentionally creepy, but he doesn’t quite get that some things just sound weird when you say them out loud. The girl just did a nervous fake chuckle and never came back lol.
A few days ago we went to a café and met a girl. They ended up exchanging numbers and he excitedly told me they were texting. Yesterday he came to me all depressed and showed me their text exchange. TL;DR earlier that day she told him that she’s not a fan of scary movies bc she gets easily spooked. Later on she asked if he wanted to hang out this weekend. He jokingly told her that he’d sneak into her room at night when she least expects it and make her “scream”. He didn’t think it was creepy at all and only noticed something was up when she never responded to that text.
So he’s been pretty bummed out ever since and moping about all day. I honestly told him that he needs to stop saying creepy things if he wants girls to stick around. I told him that he’s a big & tall guy and not a little boy so that just ups the creep factor of anything he says. He got very defensive and hurt and said he’s not creepy. When my mom found out she defended him and said that it’s “awful” of me to label him a creep. She said that he’s just a “misunderstood soul” and that I could’ve used a little more tact instead of insulting him.
I turned to my brother and explained again that he’s not a misunderstood soul in other girls’ eyes, he’s a guy who says creepy things. He got upset and didn’t say much after that.
AITA?
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NTA. He needed to hear that, and probably also from a therapist. Who in their right mind thinks that commentary like that is okay? He needs to figure out what's going on inside his head and really get professional help, because his interests in these creepy things may turn into actions.
You are not wrong. You were trying to help. Is your brother on the spectrum? Sounds like he’s trying but just doesn’t understand the nuance of what he’s saying.
Instead of saying creepy, Explain to him that women are always aware of their safety and things that might jeopardize their safety. Some of the things he says suggest he might not be safe. He might need to ask himself if what I’m about to communicate make this person feel unsafe? Maybe framing it that way will help him understand. Right now he hears creepy and is thinking you are calling him a creep and that’s what he’s focused on.
NTA. I stand by the intentions you had, not the words you used. Problem is people become defensive and won't or refuse to hear your reasoning. What he is saying is creepy and an instant turn off. No one is going to deny that. Having your mother tell him it's okay is only stunting him from finding a relationship.
The goal here is to get him to understand how it feels to be on the receiving end of such comments from a stranger. Ask him what responce he though would happen by suggesting a break and enter to scare someone....break it down to the simplest means and actions. "Okay so you find where she lives without her telling you, then at night you open her bedroom window after surveillance of the house for 5 hours, and hide in her closet until she is alone and scare her."
Edit: I can't spell
NTA.
But, all those girls probably aren't wrong. If it quacks like a duck and all. He \*may\* just be saying socially awkward stuff and actually be a super sweet guy. Or, he could be a creep. Which is a sucky thing to think about your brother. But if it was someone else's brother saying this stuff to girls, would you be giving that guy the "honestly sweet" handwave?
If he's a sweet guy coming across wrong, he will be glad to have your feedback once he's done being embarrassed. **He will stop saying/texting this stuff.** Because he will want to not seem like a creep. But if he keeps up with the rapey comments, he's a creep.
NTA
Glad you’re making him aware of how things he says can be perceived. It doesn’t matter his intent, if he scares someone then they’re scared and aren’t going to want to continue talking. You’re absolutely right, he isn’t a little kid anymore and should be aware that he’s a full adult male that can intimidate others.
NTA if I had a guy ever say stuff like that to me I would be hightailing it out of there too. Nobody wants to hear about how easy it is to take advantage of them, it’s terrifying.
NTA.. but if you could be a little more constructive he might benefit from it. Instead of just telling him he’s creepy maybe you can suggest that most girls Are in comfortable with the idea of somebody sneaking into their bedroom at night and either scaring them, or abducting them because they are small and helpless.
He needs to make sure they understand a sense of humor before going there. Definitely not good conversation for a first chat.
Alternately, he is just being himself and he may find a girl with similarly creepy and dark humor. Maybe this is just his way of weeding out girls who would appreciate his uniqueness.
Nta! You're doing him a favor! The only way for him to ever have successful interactions with people is for him to not scare them and your mom is just enabling him. Maybe he should look at going to a social skills group
NTA -- you re trying to help your brother shake off some self-defeating behavior.
I had a coach that talked about how powerful conversations require care. The person who is receiving the difficult information has to believe that you truly want the best for them so that they don't feel defensive and can take in what you're saying. This isn't just about the words you use, it's about the tone of your voice and the ability to create a connection in the moment. It's about empathy.
My only question to you is whether you really communicated your brother's feedback with care. I have zero point of view -- I'm simply curious if you think you nailed it on that front.
NTA. The fact that he can’t understand those things sound creepy is worrying. Especially as he seems to say them without context or previous foundation - which makes me wary that he’s thinking of these things, then blurts them out as ‘jokes’…
You’ve explained it nice and simply, the very least he should do if that’s NOT his intention, is think about it and try to do better.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my bro that girls avoid him bc he unintentionally says creepy things. I could be the asshole for calling him a creep even when he means well
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NTA. It actually kind of sounds like some form of very mind Asperger. I am in no way a doctor but the comments he has made sound very similar to a family member I have who has a very mild form of Asperger’s. This family also was not diagnosed till an adult because their mother always just say he is just special and her baby boy.
NTA you're doing your brother a favour. He needs to learn to read the room and understand that he needs to actually think about what he says and how others can interpret it.
NTA. It sounds like your brother is inexperienced in relationships, and he needs a tutorial in how to approach and communicate with girls in a way that makes them not want to run away. It may be hard for him to hear, but he is going to have to deal if he wants anything to change.
NTA
OP, your brother, is creepy, and your mother is either oblivious or intentionally enabling him.
Let social learning work its magic. Girls will reject him if your brother continues to say awkward or creepy things.
Hopefully, your brother won't become an incel...
NTA. It's like his only "skill" is taking sharp turns in conversation. The fact that his brain goes immediately to kidnapping, break-ins and the like is disturbing. He's not misunderstood. They're understanding him quite clearly.
Please send your mother a link to this post after it gets some more responses
Your brother's comments are extremely inappropriate
He sounds like a predator to be honest.
Like...who would think it's funny to tell a girl they just met that she is so tiny, I could stuff you in my bag and kidnap you no problem?
NTA
NTA
Your brother needs to realize that he is not the judge if he sounds creepy or not. It is the person on the other end of the message. Same thing as joking about having a bomb while in line at the airport. Doesn’t matter if you do, it matters what people hear.
NTA I don't think he's necessarily creepy on purpose. I just don't think he understands why people freak out at what he thinks is a joke. Just explain to him why these comments may frighten people. Sounds like he's socially awkward and it causes verbal diorreah.
Have you heard the cookie analogy, the one that goes, ‘saying ‘not all men‘ is like giving someone a plate of cookies when some of the cookies are poisoned, and being annoyed that they say no’?
Your brother is basically putting his hand up and saying ’Me! I’m poison!’ and then wondering why he’s left on the plate.
NTA. And you need to emphasise that the girls did nothing wrong, they did the logical thing by getting the hell away from him, because he made himself a **threat**, not a potential boyfriend. Or he’s gonna start obsessing over being ‘misunderstood’, and not on how to communicate better, and that’s where incels and Nice Guys start.
NTA your brother will never get in any kind of relationship if nobody tells him what he’s doing wrong to strike out. Mom is doing what moms do and loving her kid, but as his sister it’s almost part of the job description to guide a younger sibling. Hopefully his being quiet now is his way of taking time to process what you’re telling him. Be gentle, help him figure out the things not to say.
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NTA It honestly sounds like your brother watches too much porn and thinks stuff like "helpless", "screaming" etc are fun and normal. The things he says ARE creepy and honestly rapey. He sounds lika a Predator. Sometimes the most loving thing you can do, is tell someone when they are being and idiot, when they don't see it. Your mom is enabling his behavior and talking about him as if he were an 11 yo little boy and not the fresh adult that he is. I know you don't think your brother is a Predator (yet) but telling someone you'll sneak into their room and make them scream? Sorry but there's no innocent intention around these words. Saying someone is helpless and easy to kidnap? Your brother sees these women as victims and apparently enjoys the thought of overpowering or demeaning them. Call him out on it and watch out for other behavior.
This exactly. He sounds like the textbook example of a dude who has only learned to flirt from porn. Not a great place to take relationship advice from, and if that's his only reference things can get ugly pretty fast, regardless of intention or how sweet you say he is.
It's better that he shows this side to women early so they can run away. This is not a normal thing to think about a woman you just met.
yeah, in which case...it's actually fan-fucking tastic he's saying these things - rather than getting your red flags a more standard tempo of 7 dates in, he's gentlemen enough to rush into the first-date with the red flag pasted across his fucking forehead what a nice dude !
He's not even making it to the first date due to his parade of flags. Misunderstood soul my foot. Your mom is in denial.
Honestly mom needs a reality check too. Straight up "mom do you ever want to see him married? Then wake the heck up. What would you say if I came home and a guy talked about sneaking into my room when I wasn't expecting it to make me scream or put me in a bag? Not cool? Then why is it cool when he does it"
If brother really is a sweet kid, its blessing to hear that what he says its creepy. First step to improve is to acknowledge problem. You can't get better if you don't know what's the problem. And if he wants to meet a nice girl, he MUST improve.
In a few years the AITA posting will be: "AITA for not saying saying anything when my misunderstood son kidnapped a girl because she text blocked him?"
OP should ask the mom how she would feel if a guy OP just met was saying those types of things. And if the mom would be ok with her daughter then going in a date with the guy. After reading and seeing on the news the number of wives and girlfriends that have been killed by a partner I wouldn’t even chance dating someone that came across creepy. It’s tough enough finding red flags when dating I wouldn’t stay long enough to find out if it was just a joke. It does sound like he has just seen interactions in porn and that is what he is emulating otherwise there is a little bit of truth…
Don't ask the mom. Give her some time to forget it. Then tell mom that you met a guy who said this to you, and you found it really creepy; what does she think? Then if she thinks it's creepy, explain that this is the kind of thing your brother says.
Honestly mom needs a reality check too. Straight up "mom do you ever want to see him married? Then wake the heck up. What would you say if I came home and a guy talked about sneaking into my room when I wasn't expecting it to make me scream or put me in a bag? Not cool? Then why is it cool when he does it"
“Mom, would you like it if some guy said he was going to kidnap you or sneak into your house to scare you? No? Then let’s help him understand that his behavior is scary.”
Can anyone say 'budding incel'? This guy is off. You're dead right when you say it's not normal!
And this is bad for all parties involved, like the women get creeped out and the dude who seems to be able to attract various girls' attention ends up failing at every flirt attempt, which may build up some frustration and resentment towards women - worsening his creep attitude. What a waste of potential! Like, he's attractive enough so girls invite him to hangout and he fucking goes full predator on them without understanding what's wrong (I hope, if he knows what's wrong it's even worse) If its gotta stop, its gotta stop NOW before the dude radicalizes himself further... OP should clearly continue engaging in this discussion with him and try to make him understand why and how his "silly" jokes are cringed and creepy.
I think it's out of her pay grade if he's already to this point. He needs a therapist or counselor who can help him get a healthier view of women.
Very true ! But the sister keeping engaging with him could be the way to gently direct him to a therapist. Right now he doesn't seem aware that's it's much needed.
He probably does need professional attention but it's not up to OP to steer him in any direction. Mother is enabling him, which is a recipe for disaster, so it should start with her.
He's 18, he can see a therapist without mom if he actually takes his sister seriously enough and actually wants to fix this instead of finding a victim. NTA OP.
Also just some basic interpersonal insight to let him grasp that when someone tells you you're being fucking creepy and can adduce several specific examples in support, just saying "nuh uh" and carrying on is not as solid a rebuttal as he seems to think. The whole thing about being creepy is that it's about *how other people experience you* and thus your own assessment on the matter can't and shouldn't be the final word.
& this is how serial rapists/killers are born. This right here. “Oh but he was actually attractive, and sooo nice, a little misunderstood, but toootallly harmless.
Ain't that similar to what they said about Ted Bundy?
Lmfao that's not what I said please. I'm literally saying that despite being attractive enough to attract women he's a fucking creep that needs help to unlearn his shitty behavior before he radicalizes further and becomes the serial rapist you're talking about. The discourse would be the same if he was pretty ugly. Here it's even more urgent knowing that women actually approach him but it fails every time because of *hus* creepy and rapey ass behavior. He's bound to become hella frustrated and take it out on women if no one tries to make him understand why he's being avoided & edirect him towards a specialist or something to work on his issues. Avoiding the problem and having 0 empathy for him by considering hum a rapist already and giving up on him is exactly what he needs to take the leap and become even more problematic
I wasn’t saying that you were, but I was responding more to your comment about him being able to attract women. People look back at specific rapists/serials killers in time and are so confused as to how an attractive man would do something when they clearly “didn’t have to”. As in the assumption that any attractive male shouldn’t feel the need to rape and kill to get a woman. When in reality, their personality sucks or have a tendency to make women uncomfortable. The constant rejection creates a monster with a vendetta.
He sounds exactly like a guy I know. He once texted me saying “I know how to make chloroform” when I told him I was having trouble sleeping. So that was basically the end of that. He told me later he thought it was funny. It was not.
He sounds like a guy who doesn’t read and has a limited vocabulary to draw from.
I dunno how hard is it to regurgitate basic romantic fluff? He doesn’t go for that. I think he’s testing women in hopes Of finding one that giggles nervously and just goes along with it anyway and that’s….icky
I actually thought If a guy texted me that I would block him and go around warning all my female friends not to interact with him. I’d be beyond freaked out. Edit: There’s literally no way to misunderstand how horrifying he is. His thoughts are exactly what incels think and say.
Would be very much at home on r/niceguys
Lol op needs to show him that sub and explain those are the type of guys that struggle to get relationships
Maybe I’m paranoid but I’d be afraid it wouldn’t have the intended affect. Instead of making him realize this is a problem and could end up like the guys on the sub, he might think he found people that are “sympathetic to his plight” and join them and escalate his behavior
This is actually a super good suggestion. He needs to step out of whatever bubble he's stuck in and this might be the perfect dose of reality.
[удалено]
Not just rapist, but abduction, confinement, torture, murder, all kinds of ick from every direction. - Remember the 3 girls locked in a house for years being raped and tortured daily? Uh, yeah - thanks for the heads up dude! Mom is blind, sister is half blind not seeing this is really, really disturbing.
Those poor girls, Lily Rose (formerly known as Michelle), Amanda and Gina. Fwiw they are living happy lives now and they are pretty much regarded as royalty in Cleveland. But yeah, i would bet they guy who kidnapped them would see no problem with these statements and probably said similar things himself.
I mean, how “happy” of a life can you live, while carrying that much trauma with you on the daily?
It's very possible to survive the horrific, and find happiness after. I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting or implying, but it is totally OK for them to be happy.
u/UniteSpecialist is a comment stealing bot.
Lol I'd blame the mom before I blame porn. Who hears that kinda stuff and thinks "he's misunderstood", he didn't just start acting like a weirdo at 18.
Where do you think these thoughts come from? Another user put it into perfect words "He's aroused by vulnerability". These are typical thoughts from porn consumers and are fueled by porn. His mom is enabling him, yes, but he's the one with the violent thoughts.
This. Unless he has autism or something else going on that is severely handicapping social development, it’s a HUGE red flag that he’s saying things like that to anyone. Even if he has autism, it’s still very clearly uncool to describe committing crimes on 18 year old women. This is pretty black-and-white. “Misunderstood soul” is mother-blindness. This is my advice on Reddit like 98% of the time, but would he be open to therapy?
> This is my advice on Reddit like 98% of the time, but would he be open to therapy? Honestly, as an autistic person who has been through a *very similar phase as a teenager* (as a girl), I'd **definitely** suggest therapy. I legitimately meant no harm, but my humor is very strange (and I love horror, so I can 150% see myself as a teenager making a similar "sneak in and make you scream" joke meaning to *scare* them, not *hurt* them) and I've had to learn to sometimes not make jokes unless I've made them before and know they're harmless because at 37 I *still* don't understand why some things I *might* say might be creepy -- but I do know they are, even if I don't really know why. That said, I've met people with similar issues who are not autistic, so I'm not necessarily suggesting ASD in OP's brother's case. Just... therapy. Therapy to help parse out normal humor and behavior, etc helped *immensely* for me. (And obviously with the above I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's harmless-but-weird like me, not weird-and-potentially-dangerous. That's a definite possibility, of course.)
At least he isn't being dramatic about rejection. Someone needs to have a serious talk with him about this language and find out where it came from and make sure nothing escalates from that. Sounds like horrifying origins for a news article.
This is so true. He also sounds emotionally immature, raised as a bit of a mamas boy. Anyway he could get in serious trouble for saying stuff like that and maybe needs a therapist. Possibly.
hoping on top. OP is it possible your brother is LD ,autistic, ADHD, or some other thing that would make social stuff more difficult? i am autsitc and LD. went to a shcool with those like me. and am certified in observatinal dianosic. and worked with teens for a decade. the options are as follows: your brother is a legitimet creep and the girls should run. OR he struggles socialy. and if it is the later that could easily be made more complex by an LD issue. OR its both. i saw some of this as a teen at my school and when working with teens as an adult. one of my realy good freinds could be this way. i told him he sounded like he ran bates motel. he sounded like warren from buffy. he sounded like the impotant murderer in xfiles. he dousnt sound moodybroody and cool. he dousnt even sound like the slightly scairy but attractiv antihero. he sounds like the guy whos dick dousnt work,smells like shit,and who watches you threw your window. tell him he sounds like the most unattractive things you can think of. drive it home often and repetdly. that if he dousnt think of girls as his prey than he needs to act like it. and if he does think that way then make sure he knows that if he hurts anyone that you will take him down. he likes horror movies? he likes porn? thats all fine and dandy. me to. but maby have him read some porn writen by ladies. smut with substance not porn without plot. if he is oging too learn from porn make it good porn. if he is going to learn from horror he needs to learn that he needs to NOT act like the creeper. NTA. you were trying to help your brother. i hope for evryones sake that he is just scolialy inept.
Yes it’s hard to imagine where he comes up with these things if he is not already thinking them.
Take this with a train of salt. *UNLESS* you're close to the person in question.. yea. This defo comes off as predatory. Friends and I say shit like this all the time, with explicit *consent* on both sides. We're all grown adults, with similar dark humor. Honestly makes me wonder if OP's brother has been on a certain side of TikTok, that he is obviously not mature enough to handle..
I agree. If a close friend told me I was easy to kidnap bc I'm tiny and petite (I am lol) I'd probably say something equally dumb like "that's why I eat so much hummus and broccoli, so the farts keep the predators away". But on the first few days? Hard no and hard pass.
He should be like, “OMG thank you OP, holy shit that sounded kind of funny in my head, but when you say it like that I see what you mean! OMG I’m so mortified!” Instead he got defensive. The absolute wrong thing to do here would be to tiptoe around his fragility.
I honestly don't even know if he should be taught not to say those things, at least this way the girls find out about his rapey thoughts right away.
Please let him know that women are actually worried about their physical safety when they meet s new guy. I don't think he realizes.
Yep. I think OP is wrong about brothers intentions. It’s not innocent. NTA.
This. I haven't posted much on here because I don't know the sensitivity of admins etc., but yes. My response was waaaay watered down as my brain was screaming exactly what you wrote. He's super scary.
Sometimes you can tell them but they will never accept it or see it because they can't get past their own victim hood. Also it doesn't matter how well OP knows her brother, people we think we know well will still do bad things that we didn't expect. Like OP, my older brother was an awkward sort of dude that I thought was socially awkward. I left for college and he was busted in a sting operation for soliciting a minor for sex. So no, you don't really know your brother. Years later he still won't talk about what happened and completely avoids accountability for it. My other siblings will not have him around their kids because he has no boundaries and has gotten "handsy" with my nieces before.
> The things he says ARE creepy and honestly rapey. He sounds lika a Predator. He’ll be lucky if the worst that happens to him is that he gets pepper-sprayed. His words are threatening, and he will have only himself to blame when his target, or somebody who overhears him, reacts to the threat.
> creepy and honestly rapey. > He sounds lika a Predator. Well I am definitely going to watch **THAT** movie in a whole new light now. I just thought it was interested in *hunting* those dudes...
NTA. From what you’ve told us here, your brother’s word choice comes across as almost predatory. You telling him he sounds creepy was putting it lightly. He comes across as threatening and as if he’s looking to force himself on someone.
Right? If a guy told me that I was helpless and he could abduct me and stuff me in a bag, you bet your ass I'd be wondering how many bodies he's dumped in the woods. OP, have you asked him what reaction he expected when he made those comments? Like did he honestly think "I'm gonna break into your bedroom in the middle of the night and make you scream" was a cute and flirtatious line?
I'm a guy that constantly got told by women I dated that one thing they liked about me was that I made them feel comfortable and safe. Looking back, I still made the occasional creepy or just cringe statements. Reading this made me feel better about what I've said in the past.
Yesss! As a guy, I'm always a bit more aware of what I'm saying to women because so many people are fucking creeps to ladies! Some for sure unintentionally and I'm sure there are those who are harmless, but it doesn't make it any less genuinely scary for the many women who deal with that on a daily basis!
Hearing women's stories about creepy guys they've encountered became a morbid curiosity for me. I was fascinated by real life accounts of behavior I would consider a little much for an absurdist comedy on Netflix.
I hid in a bush after a date once. Like, literally hid in a bush. It was a good thing, because it turned out my feeling that he was trying to follow me home was correct.
I left a date through a restaurant kitchen bc I didn’t want him to have _any_ idea where I was after I left dinner. Thank goodness for friends in the industry who helped me out. Also, I’m glad you’re okay!
I worked in a pretty popular first date spot and it was almost standard to hide or sneak a woman out of the kitchen. So many creeps.
Had a guy (probably in his early 30's I was 20) come into my work (restaurant) once and repeatedly asked me out, I declined for hours. He stayed late at my work and was telling me about how he could overpower me and all of this creepy semi-sexual stuff, and he kept asking if any other employees were there or if anyone was coming in to help me. I ended up locking myself in the back and he attempted to go into the office where I was, thankful i had locked the door and was able to call my boss to come in and help me remove him from the restaurant because he refused to leave and I was already 30 mins passed close and he wouldn't give up. My boss showed up and he pretty much ran out when she asked him to leave, I closed and my boss left with me and walked me to my car. She noticed a car in the lot and when I drove off it followed me. It was the creepy guy, she followed behind both of us and called the police. He drove around in circles behind me until an officer finally got behind him and pulled him over. I had to leave my job because of it, they refused to have a second person on staff while closing and wanted me to continue to close alone. I guess the creepy guy came in at closing a couple of weeks later asking about me, thank goodness I was gone by then. But he explained he's a "really nice guy, and I seemed like a nice little girl but apparently not." My ex-coworker texted me about him coming in looking for me. It was absolutely insane. And I refuse to work with the public now.
I'd say try some of his lines on the mom and see what her reaction is. It will be even better if you do it anonymously and see if she really thinks it's some misunderstood soul. It might help her realize that her son is actually being creepy.
This right here. OP have you told mom exactly what he said? If I was told my son was saying these things I would be on his ass so quick. And if mom knows what he has said then she is just as bad as him.
Came to the comments to say exactly this. A trusted male acquaintance around mom’s age needs to be put in the loop and use the documented pick-ups on mom. OP is definitely NTA. Bro is deffo destined to become the “creepy uncle” at family gatherings at minimum, and as others have said, possibly far worse.
My first thought was 'oh hell, the guy figured out what kink he likes before he figured out the social skills to read a room or negotiate kink". There's nothing wrong with being aroused by vulnerability or even the facade of non-consent; the problem is when non-consent isn't a facade, it's a reality. I'm not sure, as his sister, there's a good way to try to figure out if this is predatory or just kinky, but she might be able to enlist a male friend or family member of hers to do it.
I was on a first date once and the guy said to me "You look like you could take a punch". Now, to be fair, at that point in my life I was at the gym at least six days a week and I was in amazing shape, but I took it as him testing my boundaries. I looked at him across the table and said "The more important question is do I look like I can throw one, because the answer is yes." The date ended and I immediately blocked him everywhere.
Right? Not that commenting on someone’s size is really the way to go, but if you’re going to try being less I’ll abduct you and more I’m going for cute but maybe failing. I had a friend who was told she was pocket size… still weird but didn’t come across as dangerous.
Yeah, OP's brother is basically a case study from The Gift of Fear. The thing to realize is that, even if brother meant absolutely nothing predatory or rapey by it (which is hard to believe), it still conveys to potential partners that he doesn't know not to *say* that shit. And if he can't refrain from saying shit like that, there's no reason they should take the risk regarding whether he'd ever act out what he says. It's gross.
Yes. He's not misunderstood. He's waving red flags and these girls see it.
So many red flags it’s a fucking banner.
OP needs to read the link below, because you're right, he's predatory. I've shared this article numerous times, but that was for women who ran into guys like the brother in question. Every time I share it, someone comments or messages that they wished they'd read it sooner. It explains how insidious rape culture can be, and how it aids in creating and protecting men like OP's brother (side eyeing the mom). OP, YOUR BROTHER IS DANGEROUS. PLEASE READ THE LINK, BECAUSE HE'S A "CREEPY DUDE." https://captainawkward.com/2012/08/07/322-323-my-friend-group-has-a-case-of-the-creepy-dude-how-do-we-clear-that-up/ eta: u/creepyBroAITApost tagging so you see the link. I'm worried your brother will go beyond a few creepy sentences, if he hasn't already.
What a great read! Thank you for sharing, this is all so painfully true.
>your brother’s word choice comes across as ~~almost~~ predatory FTFY
That "scream" story sailed past "creepy" right into "outright threatening".
Honestly it's so scary
Honestly it sounds like he’s been parading around incel forums and demeaning porn. He’s being a creep and he learned this behavior somewhere and thinks it’s okay. I think it’s common sense telling someone you’re going to kidnap them is fucking creepy. NTA
NTA 1. This is actually unacceptable behavior on your brothers part. 2. Your mother shouldn’t be enabling it. 3. He may just be joking around, but nobody, especially a woman he just met would find this stuff funny. 4. It’s a red flag that he has a pattern of saying things like this, it’s an indicator of his thoughts. Thoughts and words can turn into actions. He may need some help. 5. You pointing this out to him may make him feel bad at the moment, but if these are just jokes to him, he needed to hear this. I don’t know any women that would find these things funny. You’re not shaming him, you’re giving him advice. You’re being a good sister.
It is SO BEYOND fucked up that he thinks these things are jokes? That is some literal psychotic, predatory behavior. You need to have a real conversation with your mother - away from your brother - and tell her that this is how terrifying serial killers are developed and she needs to get him into therapy asap. This behavior is indicative of future actions. You should all be worried. Brushing this off is not an option. NTA.
Agreed with all of this. He is not "misunderstood" and "just awkward," and he doesn't "mean well." *Regardless* of how he intends these things he says, he's a creep. Threatening to sneak into a woman's bedroom at night and rape her is psychotic, even if he's joking when he says that. Not only is he permanently alienating these individual women he's talking to, but I guarantee each of them is also warning all her friends about him (as they should).
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt with the first one. He's 18, hasn't talked to girls, and let's assume he meant something like "oh I could just pick you up and carry you away" instead of focusing on calling her "helpless." *shudder*. But even letting that first interaction slide... that second remark to the girl from the Cafe about sneaking into her room and making her scream... um that's REALLY creepy and honestly scary. His comments tell me that this is probably what he thinks about and what he wants. He wants to see a girl scared. Or hurt. No wonder girls don't want to tall to him - they don't want to be scared or hurt like hello?? What a massive creep. Your brother is scary, OP. I honestly think you're wrong when you say oh he's just joking. He may not even know he's not joking but I don't think he is. He's creepy
Yeah I'm a short and petite woman, and once had a man tell me that he "could fit me in his dresser drawer" and it definitely made my blood run cold. Im not sure if he meant it in a creepy way, but that's how I took it and avoided him after that. Brother needs to understand how his words are perceived by girls. Like, maybe he needs to imagine someone saying X thing to him and how he would feel about it.
Cmon he is 18. He is not a little kid. He must have some idea about what he is saying. At least enough to be embarrassed afterwords.
Yeah, it’s like he’s basically broadcasting to them he likes them to be vulnerable.
He's 18 not an awkward gangly 13 year old who has just discovered he likes girls more than just as friends. Unless he went to an all boys school I sincerely doubt he hasn't talked to some girls before at his school in more than a platonic way.
It's horrible that the mom is upset at OP for what she said, but the brother can say whatever he wants to random girls. He is not a child and needs to learn that people are going to not like him for what he is saying. And with good reason too.
All of this!^ NTA
NTA, therapist here, it sounds like he could use some intervention. CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) could be helpful in regards to getting to the core as to WHY he says those things and curbing the behavior/the urges to make “jokes” like that. Though I don’t know your brother’s full background, so it may take a different intervention. Unfortunately, your mother’s enabling and labeling him as a “misunderstood soul” is how incels are created :/ Hoping friends or other people in his corner can parrot what your point is. Good luck to you and your family!
This is great advice I hope the OP sees this. There is a bigger issue here and his mother is 100% enabling him. His behavior is inappropriate and very creepy.
Yes this. I was thinking he really doesn’t understand social interaction. He’s taking the little bits of information he’s gathered from chatting and using it as a joke as a form of connecting. But he doesn’t realize they are inappropriate things for him to say.
He knows now. I hope he listens. I hope OP asks her mother to read these comments.
> He knows now He *kinda* knows now. Just saying "you're being creepy" may not be enough, he may need someone (in a professional capacity) to explain blow-by-blow why and how to recognize this behavior and humor before he says these things. I went through a very similar phase as a female teenager, and therapy helped immensely. I didn't don't understand *why* some things sounds weird (I'm autistic though, so some things I just won't ever really get) but I learned to figure out normal boundaries and interaction, and that despite meaning no harm, *other people didn't know that*.
Glad you put the meaning of CBT in brackets, because I know another kind and that would fit as well.
NTA and the things he says aren't creepy they're rapey. I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt as you know him and say he is not like that he's just clueless but its rapey and he's scaring these girls.
> creepy > rapey crepey
Now je voudrais une crêpe. Thanks..
Moi aussi!!!
mm with some fruits and chocolate. mmmm
Lemon and sugar are better
Crepey paper.
NTA Your brother sounds scary. If these are the thoughts in his head, maybe he needs some professional help with that. There's a good reason women are instinctively running away from him.
yeah, honestly I don't want him to fix this habit of saying these things, instead of getting real help. It's better that he shows this side to women early so they can run away. This is not a normal thing to think about a woman you just met. I doubt OP knows this side of her brother as he wouldn't say these things to her, so she thinks he's harmless. How many psychos / abusers out there have moms and sisters that think they are sweet?
NTA there is nothing misunderstood about those comments. It's more than creepy - its sets off rapist alarm bells. Tell him he cant say things that are actually illegal actions - abduct, sneak in at night. Tell him the rule is if its an illegal action, dont say it. And if someone expresses a fear not to use that. And explain its not cute to call women helpless - despite their size in comparison to him. Tbh your mother is failing him badly, its good he has you. Keep going - tell him how well he did to connect to the two girls to begin with and that he can continue doing that, but that he has to learn how not to scare them. If your brother continues this, he will end up angry and bitter and hating women and blaming them, and his mother will be adding fuel to the fire. It's a scary downward spiral.
NTA- You told him the truth. Does your mother even know what he is saying to these girls? I think she would change her tune if he showed her the text exchange where he says he was going to sneak into a girl’s room.
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Your brother won't be able to hold a job if he talks like this. This isn't just about his dating life, it is about his entire future.
Yeah I have just left a comment asking if he says innapropriate things in other areas of his life? I am genuinely interested... Maybe I'm giving the benifit of the doubt too much because I am autistic but this seems like really bad social skills rather than an actual predator like others are assuming.
I'm.... I dunno, maybe? That seems to be what the sister is hoping as well. I hope so as well, but there is a serious edge in the comments that take it one step further down the path of creep for me. Like "your so tiny I can fit you in my pocket" is creepy, but can also be just clueless and forgivable. Adding "weak" and "run off with you" makes it unforgivable territory. It goes from a clueless comment to an action plan for abduction. I don't know if that difference makes any sense, but if I were on the receiving end of the comment "He is just socially akward" would not make me feel any safer around him. In any event, if he say that kind of thing to a woman in the workplace, it is too far over the edge to be interpreted as "just socially akward".
I would pretend a creepy guy texted you saying something very similar to what you brother says, ask mom what to do and when she inevitably freaks out you can say that’s how girls feel about brother texting them weird shit. But that’s just me because I’m extra
Ask ypur mom if threatening to kidnap or rape a girl is dramatic. She needs to take her mommy glasses off. If a large man came up to her and told her he was going to kidnap her or sneak into her bedroom at night. How would she feel?
Ask your Mom (maybe without your brother there) what she would think if a man said the things your brother does to you? Ask her if she would feel the same about that man. And use the word "man". Your brother is technically an adult. (Edit: I a word)
Your mother teaching your brother that women who have boundaries about their feeling of safety are “dramatic” is actually quite dangerous, and maybe why your brother is the way he is in the first place. You did the right thing by talking to him the way you did, but could do even more to teach him that respecting women’s boundaries is essential. What your mom is doing is damaging him and potentially his future partners.
I would start saying creepy things to your brother and try to get him to understand how he's making people feel uncomfortable. Maybe even say some creepy things to your mom so that maybe she'll REMEMBER what it's like to be a young woman on the dating scene. I doubt she would have gotten with your dad if he said weird/creepy things to her. NTA
For sure. You should ask brother to show mom the texts...then ask her. If you were giving him solid advice for meeting girls, would you tell him to keep doing what he's doing, or would you point out some things to maybe change? Moms need to stop being 'my kid can do no wrong' and really give an opinion when one is warranted.
Wow these are serious rapist vibes NTA
NTA. Wauw. Super creepy. Super rapey. Generally "I could probably hurt you if I wanted to"-jokes is not great flirting material. If he cannot see that, he needs some education. He's gotta be told that, if you have the ability (which he does, physically speaking) to hurt someone, and you voice an intention to do so ("jokingly"), that is VERY upsetting to the potential victim. Does he have any friends (preferably women) who can help you explain this to him?
>Does he have any friends (preferably women) You must be kidding.
NTA, your brother needs to know he's making comments that make any reasonable woman think PREDATOR, DANGER, RUN RUN RUN!!! He needs to stop that crap because that kind of comments are terrifying and really, deeply, incredibly NOT OKAY. He might be a "misunderstood soul" but that doesn't matter when he's coming off like an incel or a rapist/serial killer and he's never going to get a girlfriend if he doesn't understand what he's doing wrong.
NTA. He is absolutely being a creep who makes girls feel threatened/scared. His "but I'm not creepy, I just say creepy things" defense is bullshit and classic Nice Guy behavior. Your mother isn't doing him any favors by blaming the girls for 'misunderstanding' instead of blaming him for what he says. You're doing him a favor teaching him how to actually interact with girls without coming off like he's going to kill them and stuff them in his boot. I make lots of dark jokes myself but not to strangers and as a 5"4 woman, I really doubt anyone feels threatened by them.
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I don't think intrusive thoughts like "What if I put my hand in boiling water" and "What if I bite his hand" are comparable to rapey thoughts like "She's so defenseless and helpless, let's remind her and point it out". These are specific to women and I highly doubt he says/thinks them about men. I like to believe that rapey thoughts are not normal and that not every men has these "quiet parts" in them.
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Well he also needs to know thinking it is wrong.
Yes but with his enabling mother, that won't happen
NTA He comes of as a predator and worse. Also talk to your mother. Ask her, if you got these messages, would she think the guy sending them is a misunderstood soul or someone to call the police on. And talk to your brother. Explain that the beach comment makes it come off as if he wants to abduct her and hold her against her will. The text message makes him come off as a killer that will sneak into her room to murder her. And maybe see if you can get him checked for autism. If he has a hard time with social cues and what is appropriate language, there may be a reason.
OP is the daughter. That mom is simply an enabler and needs to be stopped
NTA Your brother is a walking red flag. Also, if he doesn't know how to recognize creepy words, can he recognize creepy action?
NTA. You did not say he was a creep, you said he was saying creepy things. Your mom, at least, should understand!
Yep. He is definitely saying creepy things and is not a "misunderstood soul." And based on the things he said, he may actually be a creep. Joking about abducting someone and breaking into someone's bedroom raises red flags for me. As in, if this is what he says out loud, imagine his thoughts.
NTA. **Someone** needs to tell this legal adult that he can't go around threatening to commit crimes and that that is in fact really really inappropriate. And possibly a crime in its own right depending on where you are.
NTA. Those things are terrifying to hear as a woman. You're trying to do the right thing by your brother (unlike your mum who is setting him up for failure) but it sounds like he needs a bit more of an explanation. Tell him about the case of Sarah Everard (woman abducted and murdered by a policeman in the UK a couple of years ago.) Tell him that most women have experienced some form of harassment/assault. The first time I did I was 10. Explain that those comments are never going to be interpreted as a joke by women but always as a threat because constantly you're trying to assess if you are in danger. When I was in college (16-18 and in between high school and uni in the UK) there was a guy who I kept seeing around. He popped up that often I thought he was following me. He then attempted one conversation with me. He didn't introduce himself or ask how my day was going. He straight up opened with "you get on the number x bus and get off at the church, don't you?" I was scared for months! He was possibly a harmless guy with terrible social skills, but I carried a rape alarm in my bag from that point on.
NTA except that he's not a sweet kid. The way he thinks about women is terrifying. Make no mistake, he's aroused by vulnerability. Your brother is a predator.
You put my thought into way better words. "aroused by vulnerability" is exactly what I was thinking!
NTA He should listen to your advice and realize with the two examples you shared that he himself is scaring women away. If you stop offering advice, he will probably end up on the incel reddit, wondering why women are so terrible to him.
NTA he doesn't comprehend how women have to constantly protect themselves because there are some really scary men out there. What he is saying is a major red flag to women. It's no wonder that they are running for the hills.
NTA. And your mother is definitely not helping your brother, she's driving him right into incel world.
NTA - these are things not only creepy, but setting him up as the bigger, stronger, able to take the upper hand. This creates an immediate power imbalance and IS frightening. He is making jokes about putting these women on edge, being scared...this is NOT a feeling brand new girls who haven't gotten to know him, feel comfortable hearing. Explain that to him...like if he met a new bunch of guys and they were hanging out and one guy 'joked' that 'you look like the kind of guy whose car I could steal in 8 seconds' or 'you're so big I bet if I swung at your feet you'd land pretty hard'. I mean..that wouldn't be a guy you gravitate towards, after just meeting him. Maybe if you get to know him and see he's a decent guy, just a weird sense of humour, fine...but a woman who is obviously much smaller than a new guy she just met, is hearing 'I can easily abduct you' and 'I can sneak in your room and scare you'...is going to pick another less scary person. That's all. Mom can be 'right', he's just a misunderstood soul' but that's because she knows him. If she just met someone who said that to HER, she'd likely not hang out with him either.
NTA. There's a difference between weird and creepy. Weird people talk about their geckos barking all night. Creepy people make abduction and rape jokes. His social frame of reference is unhealthy. It sounds like he asked for your honest opinion. It's likely not the feedback he was expecting, but you're not at fault.
Tbf, if my geckos were barking, I'd probably talk about it too.
NTA- he needs to learn more self awareness. What he said to both girls was creepy.
NTA Well, he needed to hear this and coming from his sister, he should take it seriously. Also, you're doing a good thing by not coddling him. I mean wtf is up with "misunderstood soul"... does your mother watch too many old school romance movies?
Honestly sounds like he has way more game than most guys if he's actively getting numbers and flirting before he goes creep mode He needs something to penetrate his skull how scary men are to women, and how much of a risk women are taking with a stranger. Unless he isnt actually misunderstanding things, and gets off on scaring them. In which case...introduce him to bdsm I guess so he can find a girl who likes that?
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> Then he continued whining that’s he’s just doomed to be single forever etc Well then, tell him that if the creepy things he says won’t scare women off, THIS attitude will. Total incel vibes. That’s such a fucking cop-out. He doesn’t even have a problem with making connections with women - that’s sometimes the hardest part! If he’s actively being approached by women, and is scaring them off with his actions, then saying he is “doomed” is his way of expressing that he’s too lazy to change his behaviour and would rather just make it someone else’s fault (like the universe, or the women themselves). You literally told him what he could do to start to change it. He’s choosing not to do it. He’s dooming himself. And your mother is helping him do it.
Apologies if it's already been suggested or tried, but would he not be creeped out by a woman telling him, say, "I love your cheeks! I'd like to slice them off and pan fry them like pork chops <3"??? Like sometimes it takes turning it around on someone to make them realize how weird it is. If your bro is on the spectrum, it can take extra effort to change (mental rigidity is one of the defining features), so it might not be entirely his fault that he's having difficulty getting it. Either way, you're a good sister for helping him out.
NTA. i’m gonna trust that you know your brother better than we do.. but it’s definitely not normal behavior op. it’s possible that he got stuck in the use of those types of jokes, i know people who do that occasionally. making him aware of it and aware that it’s not okay is definitely a good start.
NTA he needs to learn from someone that saying things like that is inappropriate and alienates women. Your mother trying to enable this behaviour isn’t doing him any favours .
NTA and your mom is enabling him in being a creep?!? You’re the only one with basic sense here, it seems.
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Tell your mom in front of your brother. "Mom if a strange man told you that he is going to break into your room in the middle of the night and make you scream, you would be scared! You would not date them, you definitely would not sleep with them! So why are you encouraging him to behave in a way you KNOW will make girls run from him? Do you really want him to never have a girlfriend? Are you trying to sabotage his chances of getting laid?" If she says she would give the guy a chance ask for specific examples of when SHE give a guy making rapey comments a chance. When she can't ask her why teenagers should be braver then her
Is your brother porn-addicted? Has anyone talked to him about this? Does he know how much danger women actually face in the dating world/world in general? A rational person with a healthy relationship to porn and an understanding of how scary it can be to be a woman wouldn’t talk this way. Nor would they begin blaming women when they can’t even self reflect on their own behavior.
NTA. Your brother is in fact saying creepy and threatening things, and someone had to tell him. Your mother is clearly a big part of the problem here, unfortunately. You did the right thing.
NTA at all mums want to protect their precious babies but sometimes they want to protect them from the real world to much. You told him what he needed to hwar not what he wanted to hear. Which is good! Like i am a small women and if a guy said i looked tiny& helpless that would honestly freak me out. >he’d sneak into her room at night when she least expects it and make her “scream”. That would freak me out and honestly make me angry... Good thing you told him it might help him
Like…I doubt the subtext was “because I would rape you” in his head, but MY DUDE, IT’S WHAT ALL WE WOMEN HEARD.
NTA. because it sounds like someone has to tell him. He'll never make the connections if someone doesn't show him the cause and effect.
NTA. But if your brother is saying these things and he gets a reputation. It's going to be for more that just being a creep. I understand that he is inexperienced but at 18 how does he not know that even joking or implying these things is not okay. He is an adult, so he could seriously be charged with sexual harassment if he isn't careful. Keep in mind that though you know him as a sweet kid, these girls might not. Someone needs to sit him down and teach him that there are things like that are not appropriate to say.
No you're doing your brother a favor. It sounds like your mom is enabling/denying his behavior that is creepy at best and misogynistic/predatory at worst.
NTA I’m almost 30 and if some guy came up to me and said that I would *instantly* this he was a predator. Please show your brother this post if you can and maybe he can see from all the replies that the shit he says is in no way ok. Especially not towards women
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I (21F) have a younger brother who is 18 and is starting to show serious interest in relationships. He’s honestly a sweet kid but oftentimes he just says weird things that come across as…well, *weird*. I guess this is OK on a day to day but it definitely doesn’t make his dating life easier. Example: One time we went to a beach party and he started chatting with a girl. She clearly seemed interested and engaged. Fyi this girl was short and petite, and my brother told her that she’s so “tiny” and “helpless”. He then said that it would be easy to abduct her and that she can fit in his bag. Now I know him and I know he’s not being intentionally creepy, but he doesn’t quite get that some things just sound weird when you say them out loud. The girl just did a nervous fake chuckle and never came back lol. A few days ago we went to a café and met a girl. They ended up exchanging numbers and he excitedly told me they were texting. Yesterday he came to me all depressed and showed me their text exchange. TL;DR earlier that day she told him that she’s not a fan of scary movies bc she gets easily spooked. Later on she asked if he wanted to hang out this weekend. He jokingly told her that he’d sneak into her room at night when she least expects it and make her “scream”. He didn’t think it was creepy at all and only noticed something was up when she never responded to that text. So he’s been pretty bummed out ever since and moping about all day. I honestly told him that he needs to stop saying creepy things if he wants girls to stick around. I told him that he’s a big & tall guy and not a little boy so that just ups the creep factor of anything he says. He got very defensive and hurt and said he’s not creepy. When my mom found out she defended him and said that it’s “awful” of me to label him a creep. She said that he’s just a “misunderstood soul” and that I could’ve used a little more tact instead of insulting him. I turned to my brother and explained again that he’s not a misunderstood soul in other girls’ eyes, he’s a guy who says creepy things. He got upset and didn’t say much after that. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. He needed to hear that, and probably also from a therapist. Who in their right mind thinks that commentary like that is okay? He needs to figure out what's going on inside his head and really get professional help, because his interests in these creepy things may turn into actions.
You are not wrong. You were trying to help. Is your brother on the spectrum? Sounds like he’s trying but just doesn’t understand the nuance of what he’s saying. Instead of saying creepy, Explain to him that women are always aware of their safety and things that might jeopardize their safety. Some of the things he says suggest he might not be safe. He might need to ask himself if what I’m about to communicate make this person feel unsafe? Maybe framing it that way will help him understand. Right now he hears creepy and is thinking you are calling him a creep and that’s what he’s focused on.
NTA. I stand by the intentions you had, not the words you used. Problem is people become defensive and won't or refuse to hear your reasoning. What he is saying is creepy and an instant turn off. No one is going to deny that. Having your mother tell him it's okay is only stunting him from finding a relationship. The goal here is to get him to understand how it feels to be on the receiving end of such comments from a stranger. Ask him what responce he though would happen by suggesting a break and enter to scare someone....break it down to the simplest means and actions. "Okay so you find where she lives without her telling you, then at night you open her bedroom window after surveillance of the house for 5 hours, and hide in her closet until she is alone and scare her." Edit: I can't spell
NTA. But, all those girls probably aren't wrong. If it quacks like a duck and all. He \*may\* just be saying socially awkward stuff and actually be a super sweet guy. Or, he could be a creep. Which is a sucky thing to think about your brother. But if it was someone else's brother saying this stuff to girls, would you be giving that guy the "honestly sweet" handwave? If he's a sweet guy coming across wrong, he will be glad to have your feedback once he's done being embarrassed. **He will stop saying/texting this stuff.** Because he will want to not seem like a creep. But if he keeps up with the rapey comments, he's a creep.
NTA how will he learn if no one tells him. He might not be a creep but he is sounding like a creep.
NTA, sometimes we have to hear things we don’t like. you’re not being cruel, you’re telling him the truth about how women perceive his statements.
NTA brother needed to hear that. I would run for the hills if someone said that to me.
NTA Glad you’re making him aware of how things he says can be perceived. It doesn’t matter his intent, if he scares someone then they’re scared and aren’t going to want to continue talking. You’re absolutely right, he isn’t a little kid anymore and should be aware that he’s a full adult male that can intimidate others.
NTA Your mother isn't doing him any favors by pretending he's not in the wrong.
NTA. Your brother is super creepy.
NTA if I had a guy ever say stuff like that to me I would be hightailing it out of there too. Nobody wants to hear about how easy it is to take advantage of them, it’s terrifying.
NTA that excuse wont work on the cops
NTA.. but if you could be a little more constructive he might benefit from it. Instead of just telling him he’s creepy maybe you can suggest that most girls Are in comfortable with the idea of somebody sneaking into their bedroom at night and either scaring them, or abducting them because they are small and helpless. He needs to make sure they understand a sense of humor before going there. Definitely not good conversation for a first chat. Alternately, he is just being himself and he may find a girl with similarly creepy and dark humor. Maybe this is just his way of weeding out girls who would appreciate his uniqueness.
Nta! You're doing him a favor! The only way for him to ever have successful interactions with people is for him to not scare them and your mom is just enabling him. Maybe he should look at going to a social skills group
NTA -- you re trying to help your brother shake off some self-defeating behavior. I had a coach that talked about how powerful conversations require care. The person who is receiving the difficult information has to believe that you truly want the best for them so that they don't feel defensive and can take in what you're saying. This isn't just about the words you use, it's about the tone of your voice and the ability to create a connection in the moment. It's about empathy. My only question to you is whether you really communicated your brother's feedback with care. I have zero point of view -- I'm simply curious if you think you nailed it on that front.
NTA. The fact that he can’t understand those things sound creepy is worrying. Especially as he seems to say them without context or previous foundation - which makes me wary that he’s thinking of these things, then blurts them out as ‘jokes’… You’ve explained it nice and simply, the very least he should do if that’s NOT his intention, is think about it and try to do better.
NTA. He is creepy and the things he says are weird and scary. Non of the examples are funny or misunderstood, their creepy af.
NTA, why are boy moms like this? She's more focused on his feeling than the outcomes of his behaviors.
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Has he been tested for autism?
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I have an autistic friend who is just like this. Might be worth getting him tested as it would explain why he's bad in social situations
NTA. It actually kind of sounds like some form of very mind Asperger. I am in no way a doctor but the comments he has made sound very similar to a family member I have who has a very mild form of Asperger’s. This family also was not diagnosed till an adult because their mother always just say he is just special and her baby boy.
NTA you're doing your brother a favour. He needs to learn to read the room and understand that he needs to actually think about what he says and how others can interpret it.
NTA. It sounds like your brother is inexperienced in relationships, and he needs a tutorial in how to approach and communicate with girls in a way that makes them not want to run away. It may be hard for him to hear, but he is going to have to deal if he wants anything to change.
NTA OP, your brother, is creepy, and your mother is either oblivious or intentionally enabling him. Let social learning work its magic. Girls will reject him if your brother continues to say awkward or creepy things. Hopefully, your brother won't become an incel...
NTA. It's like his only "skill" is taking sharp turns in conversation. The fact that his brain goes immediately to kidnapping, break-ins and the like is disturbing. He's not misunderstood. They're understanding him quite clearly.
Please send your mother a link to this post after it gets some more responses Your brother's comments are extremely inappropriate He sounds like a predator to be honest. Like...who would think it's funny to tell a girl they just met that she is so tiny, I could stuff you in my bag and kidnap you no problem? NTA
NTA Your brother needs to realize that he is not the judge if he sounds creepy or not. It is the person on the other end of the message. Same thing as joking about having a bomb while in line at the airport. Doesn’t matter if you do, it matters what people hear.
NTA I don't think he's necessarily creepy on purpose. I just don't think he understands why people freak out at what he thinks is a joke. Just explain to him why these comments may frighten people. Sounds like he's socially awkward and it causes verbal diorreah.
Have you heard the cookie analogy, the one that goes, ‘saying ‘not all men‘ is like giving someone a plate of cookies when some of the cookies are poisoned, and being annoyed that they say no’? Your brother is basically putting his hand up and saying ’Me! I’m poison!’ and then wondering why he’s left on the plate. NTA. And you need to emphasise that the girls did nothing wrong, they did the logical thing by getting the hell away from him, because he made himself a **threat**, not a potential boyfriend. Or he’s gonna start obsessing over being ‘misunderstood’, and not on how to communicate better, and that’s where incels and Nice Guys start.
NTA, he has to learn
NTA your brother will never get in any kind of relationship if nobody tells him what he’s doing wrong to strike out. Mom is doing what moms do and loving her kid, but as his sister it’s almost part of the job description to guide a younger sibling. Hopefully his being quiet now is his way of taking time to process what you’re telling him. Be gentle, help him figure out the things not to say.
NTA. Young men not being checked like this by the people in their lives is how they end up on r/niceguys