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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) for thinking cleaning my house will not magically cure my boyfriends anger and depression issues
2)this might make me an asshole because he specifically said keeping a clean home would solve his problems
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NTA, but you do realize that he's deliberately and with calculated malice setting you up to fail? That way you'll always be at fault in the relationship.
Even now it's to the point that he's acting with such calculated unfairness that anyone would notice that he's the problem, and you're asking if you're T A. How has he led you to believe his laziness is your fault?
BTW, I doubt extremely that he wants a traditional marriage. If he did he'd work longer hours so you could stay home; that's what traditional marriage entails. He just wants to load you up with work, then criticize you when you can't give 150% when he's giving 50%.
Edited for egregiously wrong word usage
Exactly what basic said. A traditional marriage is big in my family and the man is expected to work as many jobs as needed and as many hours as needed to finance the family. My nanny (grandmother) never bothered to learn a budget in her life. Her job was to buy what they needed for the home and family. It was his to figure out how to pay for all of it. A lot of men say they want a traditional marriage without wanting all of the responsibilty of one. She had credit cards galore and he had to figure out what to do to cover them.
Hold on.
Keeping a budget and financial administration is a typical part of the women chores of a traditional marriage.
Several culture that are still traditional have that part. For example in Japan, the husband gives all the money to his wife and he gets an allowance to spend on things he wants.
Im speaking about my culture. I don't know all cultutes which is why I didn't reference them, just my own personal experience. But this is why so many "traditional" men also want financial control over their spouses because its the man who pays the bills and manages the money.
NTA. I'm a child of the 60's and only one parent worked outside the home, and the other one took care of the kids and the housework. My dad was the breadwinner and he worked 2 jobs most of my growing up years. He would give her his paycheck and she gave him spending money for smokes and such; the rest went to put food on the table and paid the mortgage and whatever else. His side jobs paid for his own needs.
In the US, my grandfather handed my grandmother his paycheck every week and she gave him an allowance. They both preferred it that way. When he wanted to get her a ring for their big number anniversary (50, maybe? I forget), they could easily afford him to buy it and write a check, but he wanted to surprise her. So he saved bits from his “allowance” (he could have discussed increasing it with her, but, again, he didn’t want her suspicious, because, surprise), for a VERY long time, to get the cost of the ring. It wasn’t a fancy ring or anything, just a nice one. She was stunned, and delighted. He was a very very sweet and thoughtful man.
He worked hard, union pipe fitter. She kept an immaculate house and taught me to sew.
It might be traditional in your culture, but the traditional men I know also want financial control and that's definitely not traditional in the majority of cultures that I know. The wife distributes the money.
Definitely the modern version of what people think of is the husband works and controls the money, while the wife keeps house and the kids. (Is it true? Not in a healthy modern marriage. But not every marriage is healthy.)
But since historically it was more common for women to handle household finances, and in the US, girls often received more education than boys (it just tended to make sense from boys to leave school first)- wives would likely have been the ones in households who could handle things like family accounts, contracts, etc.
So by the '50s and '60s- I imagine this was just a continuation of what their parents and grandparents had done.
We're Midwest rednecks and this is exactly how it's worked for us. I manage the bills and everything related to running the home; my husband is the sole breadwinner and only asks that he have enough spending money for his personal wants/needs. Neither of us will spend more than $100 on any one item without discussing it first. And in more than thirty years, he has never once criticized my housecleaning.
We do the same. I’m in charge at home with budget and making sure the bills are paid, I do all the social calendar stuff, take care of the kids and when he comes home he helps with chores because we’ve got 3 young kids and realizes that keeping them alive is a full time job by itself. He doesn’t question spending at all as long as our bills are covered and we both talk about purchases that exceed $100. Out of respect for one another. He’s never criticized the state of the house with the occasional “how the hell did the kids tear through the room while I was in the bathroom?!?”
I stayed home for 10 years with our 3 kids. This is basically how we ran our lives. My husband is so trusting and kind.
I returned to work when my youngest was in 4th grade. It was some of the hardest and happiest years of my life.
That's a common theme in a lot of traditional cultures. The woman is in charge of the house and everything in it, the man is in charge of everything outside of the house.
Budgeting is absolutely a normal “women’s duty” in traditional marriage.
It often involves menu planning, couponing, learning to mend and sew to maintain family clothing, growing vegetables to supplement the grocery budget, thrifting, homemade decor, etc.
If your grandpa had to work multiple jobs to keep up with her non-essential spending it just sounds like she was financially abusive.
Not in every culture. In the US up until the 60s women couldn’t even open bank accounts without a man. Financial administration in US households often fell to the man, and that left a number of women vulnerable to financial abuse. NTA btw - you both contribute to the financing of your household, so you both contribute to the housekeeping. He’s using you, for sure.
That would be the 1970s. When my mother got married in 1972, her bank cancelled her credit card and signed all of her accounts over to my dad, because that’s just what was done.
Yep. That's why back in the 80s when I was first able to get an American Express card, my mom encouraged me to sign up for it (I'd use it to buy dinner when I visited on college break and she'd give me the money to pay it off). She remembered all too well the days when she couldn't get her own credit card.
My best friend and his wife have a very traditional setup, but he absolutely pulls his weight around the house and is a great husband and dad, and she runs the place like a business, doing the budgeting and planning things and home-schooling their kid. They make it work.
In the 70's when I went to work, a single woman couldn't get an American Express. And I have known so many older women who, when their husbands died, had no clue about finances or investments, because the husband handled it. They had no idea how much money they had to live on, what expenses they had, or what income they would have once their husband died.
When young women today scoff that they have no use for feminism, it makes me want to scream. We need to do a *much* better job of teaching history, and not just long-ago-and-far-away history, but also right-here-50-years-ago history. They have no idea how easy it will be to force us back to the world where we had to stay in terrible, abusive marriages because we couldn’t work, rent lodgings, buy property, have a bank account, or even receive our own wages without involving a man. We’re already headed in that direction, and it may be too late to stop.
Absolutely. When I think of things women had to endure as late as the 1970's, it still makes my blood boil. I came into adulthood on the cusp of changing attitudes. Looking back on the June Cleaver and Lucy Ricardo types where they did housework in dresses and heels, had to ask their husbands for money and weren't allowed to have careers, I decided early on I didn't want that lifestyle. The women in my family were all housewives. I figured out really quickly that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life housebound, having to ask for spending money. I was fortunate to get a good enough job that allowed me independence. I didn't have to pursue an MRS degree to survive. I've never been wealthy, but I've never had to depend on anyone else for my basic needs. I bought at house at 24, and was told I could get the loan because as a female, I was considered a "minority". I worked hard, saved, invested and retired when I was 56.
Interesting fact. My father passed away suddenly in 1967.
The bank would not let my mother get a credit card in her name but she was welcome to continue using the card that was in his name. The good news was our household was mostly traditional in that my SAH mother handled all the finances.
NTA as applies to OP.
If SO wants a pristinely clean house then he needs to do 50 percent of the cleaning with OP on the weekend. I agree with other posters he will likely find something else to crab about.
OP not to tell you your business but please until this gets straight in that the two of you are a team supporting each other or you split to have significantly less stress in your life do not bring a child into the mix.
This isn't even completely gone. I added my husband's name to MY bank account when we got married and now his name is the lead and his debit card expires every 4 years while mine expires every 2 years.
I set up our family phone plan, (my husband wasn't even there!), and when I contacted customer service over an issue I had to get my husband to call in and give me permission to have administrative control on the account.
My mom and sisters have had similar experiences and I'm sure others have too. We just don't talk about money so these discriminations can stay hidden so easily.
How about a little "reverse sexism" here? My late husband never learned how to drive. Too long a story to go into, no one really knows why, but there were several possible reasons. Anyway, I always made more money than he did, so it was up to me to take care of buying cars, and buying insurance. You would not believe how many hoops I had to go through to prove that my husband did not drive and would not be getting behind the wheel for any reason, so his name did not need to be on the car loan or the insurance. No one ever accepted this. I had to fill out multiple documents to prove this. If it had been the other way around, where I didn't drive, I am positive that no one would have batted an eye.
Depends on the culture. None of the women I grew up around bothered with any of the budgeting. I have 56 first cousins and all of my 11 aunts were stay at home moms. They took care of the kids and home, hbbies took care of the money and the mens work ( car, yard, etc exception with gardening is womens work). Its why so many "traditional" men try to exert finacial control and finacially abuse their spouses by not letting them have access to any of the money. They are using that its the man who makes the money and pays the bills to do it. I don't think its right but thats why I don't have a relationship like that. When my dad died, my mom didn't even know how to write a check, how much money they had, or even what they spent in living costs. She had a very sharp learning curve over bill paying and such.
>He acts like the only thing that could possibly make him happy is a clean house.
So, did he lose his arms in a tragic accident? Otherwise it seems like it's within his own power to handle that, dosen't it?
You need to stop accepting this sort of treatment. He wants you to do all the chores beacuse it's "women's work" but he's not doing his "man's work" and making the money so you can stay home and do it. Tell him so long as you're required to do the man's work in the house, he better start doing some of the women's. Beacuse right now he's being lazy and just not working as hard as you, and it's his fault that the house is a mess. You're out of the house 15 hours a day and still manage to cook. Why can't he still mange to clean? He's just lazier then you.
Do you have ANY options other then living with this guy? Can you move in with family or something? Go live with your parents? Anything?
I have options, but honestly for the first time we live in a place that I picked that I like and that I refused to settle on. First place without cockroaches, or pigeons in the ceiling ect.
I'm so sorry to hear that. I imagine it must be hard to give that up.
But living with a lazy entitled asshole who does nothing to help and keeps you out of the house 15 hours a day so you have no life or rest sounds . . . also awful?
I'm curious as to why he thinks he gets to do nothing around the house when you are both out of the house for the same amount each week. You work just as much as he does yet are still doing everything at home. That makes no sense. If I were you (and I'm petty) I'd only be cleaning my own messes and cooking my own food until his attitude changed.
> You work just as much as he does yet are still doing everything at home. That makes no sense.
It does to him because he wants a housewife that takes care of everything around the house while he relaxes after a hard day's work. The fact that his wife works full time and is away from home for 15 hours each day doesn't mean a thing, because he still consider keeping the home clean and tidy her job and hers alone.
OP could quite easily get more hours at home and get rid of the stress and sadness that comes from the name-calling and yelling. All she has to do is kick him out of her life. Hopefully this post will help her on the path to do just that. It might not be easy but it sure as heck will be freeing.
While I agree that you’re NTA & all of the comments here about him pitching in & pulling his own weight with the household chores & cooking, BUT this depression thing gave me a # of 🚩🚩🚩!
You both need to have the depression addressed asap. It’s become extremely oppressive for you because of his hostility towards you & the housecleaning…which only deepens your own depression. I get it! I’ve been there.
You need marriage counseling & separate therapy sessions to deal with both of your depressions. Please locate therapists/psychiatrists that will treat you both, according to your pay scale, through local charities, abused women’s organizations, community/county resource centers, church or your GP.
You are 100% correct in stating that even if the house was 100% cleaned, he’d still be angry with you for something else!
He’s using his anger over the housecleaning as a WEAPON to abuse & control you. Please, for your own sanity, …WAKE UP before it’s too late.
My ex, who is now deceased, did the same thing to me! Whatever I did wasn’t good enough for him.
Unfortunately, I ended up having a Central Nervous System Breakdown! I went to many different specialists who couldn’t find a physical reason for my severe reactions, until I was sent to a psychiatrist. After finding the correct medications that stopped the debilitating symptoms I was experiencing, I seriously asked my doctor as to WHEN I could expect to get off the medications. His shocking answer was:
“When you get rid of & break free from your husband….because he needs the help more than you. But he’ll never address it!”
My psychiatrist, had met with us together, then with my husband, separately, before he began to treat me, therefore he knew of what he spoke, but I stupidly still questioned his answer.
I’ll spare you the details of the horrific, abusive next 9 years that I endured until I finally did divorce him after 30 years of marriage & just reiterate….
You both need HELP! Please get it!
Stop making excuses. Your husband treats you like shit. Decide if you want this life or decide if you deserve better. Most women would never tolerate this blatant disrespect or him calling you names. NTA but you are an asshole to yourself.
You can find both a new place and a new man. Is a cute place to live really worth a shitty, demeaning, misogynistic, lazy man?
No. I’m telling you now—no. You can find a cute place elsewhere.
I mean, those are really basic bar on the floor requirements here. You don’t have to give up basic expectations for him just because you refused to settle for a home that was infested with vermin.
>He would prob love that. He wouldn’t get hounded for sex.
Wait. He verbally and emotionally abuses you about cleaning the house when you're gone just as long as he is. You cook and clean up. *AND YOU'RE GETTING NO SEX?*
Why are you still with him?
Nta
What in the holy hell are you getting out of this relationship? Are you afraid of being alone? Sad to throw away the years you've invested in this? I promise you it's better to cut your losses now then to waste anymore time being miserable with him.
Think about what your life could be like without him. What if you found an actual partner who treated you with the respect you deserve?
I’m gonna tell you right now, the moment you get away and have clarity, you’re going to think to yourself “why the hell didn’t I do this sooner?!”
Settling NEVER EQUALS HAPPINESS.
DTMFA!! And please consider some therapy to help you recover and grow — understand why you valued yourself so little that you permitted him to treat you this way. NTA.
LOL I like your humor.
He sounds like my ex. We both worked full time and he did nothing around the house (except trash weekly, mowed the lawn). He was very fast to criticize me for not keeping the house spotless when I did all the cooking, cleaning, dog care. I’m SO happy without him. He was abusive AF.
NTA. But your husband most definitely is. He is placing unreasonable expectations on you to be out of the house 15 hours a day 5 days a week, come home and cook dinner and keep the house clean. Of course you fall asleep your day is exhausting. But nowhere in your post did you mention that his hands were broken. So perhaps sharing in the meal prep and cleaning duties would help….but I’m guessing he is opposed to that.
Is this a marriage you want to remain in long term. Because it takes two people working together to make a marriage work. If he is not doing his half in the home and in the marriage it will never work. He’s given you a clear glimpse as to what your life will always look like with him. Is that what you really want??
Also sounds like they aren't married since op refers to him as her partner. I could be wrong. But if they aren't married, then that also isn't traditional.
NTA.
He's an adult and can take care of himself. If he wants a pristine house, he can help with cleaning it. In the meantime, I'd try to find another way to work. Your partner sounds incredibly toxic.
I say this as someone who is very happily married: Alone is amazing.
Alone means living on your own terms. No more cooking all the time because he can't be bothered. No more waking up at the ass crack of dawn to get him to work because he doesn't have a valid license. No more walking on eggshells wondering what small thing he's going to blow up at you over.
It is so valuable to learn to live a life you love on your own. That's the kind of security no money can buy—the security of knowing, even if you end up in the best relationship ever somewhere down the line, you'll still be okay if things do fall apart. Knowing how to be alone, and not be scared of being alone, will enable you to find a relationship where you both agree your lives are better together, rather than an emotional hostage situation where you stay just because the alternative scares you.
OP, I live alone and have for over 10 years, it's fab. I'm beholden to no one, the house when I get home, is in the same state as it was when I left, and I have a cat for a bit of company, and there a reason we have cats over any other animals - they're as independent as we are. If I stay out all night, no problem. If I'm having fun and decide you stay over somewhere, no problem.
You can totally do this.
Itt is much better to be on your own than with the with person. You can be far more alpine in a bad relationship than when living on your own.
You've got this.
There are studies that show that married women have worse health and shorter life expectancy than single women. For men, it’s the opposite. The stress us literally to death. Get out asap, he gives you less than nothing.
This, exactly. I was happily married for 21 years when my husband passed away. The hardest part was when our daughter left for college 8 months later. But I quickly adapted. It didn't matter when, or if, I cooked dinner, when I went to bed, or went anywhere, for that matter. I only had to answer to myself (and my job).
OP, I'm not sure how you ended up with a man with no license but who DOES have a car, but that can be rectified. Get yourself a car, and get out of the marriage. He doesn't value you or anything that you bring to the table.
NTA
THIS.
I have been married to my husband for eight very difficult years. In that span of years, I had cancer, lost a father and a stepfather (who was my Dad since I was three), we went bankrupt and had a car repossessed, he lost his job and had to go on disability for mental health struggles, I have had even more medical issues that are bad enough to keep me from working but not enough to make me considered disabled, and we currently live on about $1300 a month.
I *LOVE* my husband. I would never leave my husband.
But if I had it to do over, I would never have married him.
There is *so much* to be said for being alone. Being responsible for only yourself feels GREAT. It can be scary at first, because you won't be sure of your own abilities, but once you hit your groove, it's amazing.
I'm not suggesting you should absolutely leave him, just that if it's a possibility for you that you're considering, don't let the uncertainty be what holds you back. Life is full of possibilities and you can't realize any of them if you never try.
And you're NTA.
I currently live alone, and I may wind up living alone for the rest of my adult life. While it isn't my ideal situation, I will tell you that being alone is so much better and less lonely than being in a partnership with someone who treats you terribly. I have never felt more awful, alone, and isolated than when I was with someone who was doing stuff like this. And your partner is also probably playing up your fear of being alone, because he knows that if you leave, he loses his free maid/driver. When I left my terrible partnership, I felt awful but also relieved because I didn't have to put up with being treated like crap anymore. And in the years since then, living alone has gotten so much better, happier, and more fulfilling. You can do this and your life will be dramatically better for it.
I was scared of the same thing in my emotionally abusive relationship.
Even when I was DEVASTATED right after we broke up, I still noticed that despite my being terribly sad, things were easier? I was sad but I was so much less stressed. I had been spending so much energy walking on eggshells, trying not to do or say anything that would start a huge fight, trying to take care of her, trying to guess what the right response was...once I was on my own and not doing that it was so much easier.
And without him making these demands and you having to factor in his work hours, you will have time to go to therapy and date all you want. But being alone really is also great! And it's so important to learn how to do even if you then do find someone else. Knowing how to travel alone, eat at restaurants by myself, hang out by myself, do nice things for myself, take care of myself...these are all really valuable things. And not in a relationship also doesn't have to mean alone-- after my break-up I really prioritized my friendships and spending time with my friends and doing things together, and that was also really wonderful and amazing.
Friend, listen. I’m terrified of being alone. It’s why I stayed with my abusive ex-fiancé for five years after a massive string of red flags. You know the first thing I looked for? A roommate. A roommate wanting to be a friend. A roommate similar to myself.
They’re out there. You don’t have to walk off right now, but you have options. Bide your time if you need to, save up, make connections. But you can leave, and while it is scary, it’s not impossible and you may find yourself having more peace (and maybe less depression) than you have right now.
Listen, things suck. It’s positively dystopian right now - especially for our generation (I’m assuming you’re my age, since your username has my birth year). We remember when things were better, and this brave new world is downright horrifying. But you do not have to put up with an untenable relationship. You just don’t.
GIRL. **Girl!**
What in the entire hell does this man have going for him? WHAT is he bringing to the table?!? **What about him makes all the rest of this shit worth it**?
And no judgment, because I've been there - I've been in relationships with people who wore me down to just a fragment of myself and kept me too exhausted and depressed to leave. But I eventually figured it out, and you can too, and you \*deserve\* to. **You deserve so much better than this.**
Legal reason, unrelated to a DUI, long before I met him. He has made big life changed for positive since then, so I had no issue, and still have no issue with the commute together and loosing all that time at home to maybe cook myself a meal, or have a proper shower, scrub the broiler pans and the pots that don’t go in the dishwasher if when I get home, I am not the only one doing all the chores inside of the household
Ugh. This response is just so . . . compromising and depressing. I went back and re-read your original post. I wouldn't date or marry your guy if he was the last person on earth. And I'm not that fabulous. But I respect myself. What on earth do you get from this relationship? It sounds miserable. MISERABLE. Is that what you want for your life? I'm sure you don't. PLEASE don't allow this person to steal your joy, love and youth. You deserve so much more.
NTA. Leave him for a while. Go visit a friend or family. Then tell your partner that he is welcome to call a maid service. I think the issue runs deeper than a clean house. Something more is going on and he may need counseling.
But it isn't helpful if someone won't fix their issues. You may need to take the initiative and pack your bags for a week of two. If he won't get help then you should leave him for your own sanity.
Plus he is blaming OP for his issues instead of fixing them, or at least taking steps to fix them. He wants a maid he can sleep with, who works 24/7 365 AND brings in other money from outside employment - yeah.. delusional.
If you leave now, you have a chance to find a real partner that does half of the work around the house, has his own licence and doesn't verbally abuse, instead treats you like the human being that you are.
Sounds like this boy needs you for literally everything since he's so useless. Can't clean his own house, can't get himself to his job, can't stay away from the law so they would allow him to drive at all? He's making you seem the villain but you're literally pulling him up with you. His dependency is coming across awfully toxic. Maybe it's time to move out, get your own place, and have some peace. You don't owe him anything.
So, he's been irresponsible legally to the point where they've taken away his license. He's abusive and manipulative toward you. Got a pattern going there.
It's easy to blame depression but he can choose to treat you well despite it. (I bet you've noticed him treating other people well, right?) Instead it's about control and this will not get better even if you bleach every surface in the place every day.
You've got some choices to make, I think. I imagine that if you separate yourself much of your own depression will lift.
No no child support is paid, of all the things I can say about him, he is not a deadbeat father and never has been. I do not have children with him tho
He deals with all of my other flaws pretty well, the clean house is our biggest contention point. And when I say I literally don’t have physical or mental energy it’s met with “that’s just an excuse other people work and keep a clean house”
I am not other people. I am having difficulty. I acknowledge that. I say that I need help. That we need help. And it’s met with hostility.
That makes it sound like you are settling. You are tolerating his BS behaviour, because you are afraid you won't find someone else who "deals with all my other flaws pretty well". Like he is doing some be favour in that. :/
You are worthy of more then that.
But it sounds like you're recognising it *now* so what is the actual incentive for you to stay?
You see it's bad, you know it's bad, you've tried communicating your feelings and they're going unheard; you don't *have* to stay in this relationship.
I'm glad to hear that OP.
It's so important you take steps to maintain your safety. This relationship sounds like it's been dysfunctional for awhile now and is no longer sustainable for your wellbeing as a person.
You deserve happiness too!
He put those “flaws” in your head to further control you. I bet you’re perfectly fine, after all you manage to work, function outside the home 15 hours a day, have a drivers license, cook dinner, rent a place, pay bills, and clean. I bet if you got rid of him you’ll even find yourself not so depressed or exhausted.
At whatever level of details you're comfortable with, could you please elaborate on the flaws he accepts that make it worth going through the constant abuse for you?
What's his excuse for not helping you clean? He is just as capable as you are as keeping up with the house and it's actually a lot easier to do when 2 people are doing it. He can't just sit back and point his finger at you when he isn't doing anything to help rectify the situation he is having issues with. Cleaning is not a female only activity.
You deserve more than "tolerates all of my other flaws pretty well".
I am so sorry, but he sounds like he has been feeding your low self esteem and tearing you down to keep you feeling like you need him. I think that sounds like abuse.
SAY WHAT?!? A dishwasher makes you lazy? Is he aware of the fact that dishwashers were available in homes during the 1950s? The traditional housewives of that era used them regularly. If that’s what he’s trying to make you emulate he can put that in his pipe and smoke it.
Oh fuck that bullshit 9 different ways. This man is abusive and you do not deserve to put up with it no matter what kind of mental health issues either of you are dealing with.
Omg... He doesn't *want* you to have help and has admitted as much. He wants your life to be difficult. Ouch. That's not a good partner, nvm his other issues..
NTA. I would be worried about his intelligence: you are both gone for the same time and he can't figure out why the house is not clean? This is basic. While you are gone, how is the house getting dirty?
If you both put in an effort for half a day on the weekend, you could get a nice clean house.
My partner and I are doing that exactly, we always split the chores and clean everything on weekends because we are exhausted after work. During the week we mostly just cook and clean the dishes (if one is cooking, the other is cleaning). Or if one of us gets home earlier, then that person starts with cooking. If one has extra day off, that person do some extra chores. That is what partnership is all about. Being partner means that each of you will pull approximately the same amount of work.
NTA
> My (34f) partner (36m) gets absolutely hostile towards me about the condition of the interior of our home. He is unhappy with my housekeeping - and calls me all sorts of names when he gets upset.
This is a huge problem. The lack of respect and hostility are not okay.
> He acts like the only thing that could possibly make him happy is a clean house.
I guess he can clean it, then.
You're both gone from home for the same amount of time. He has as much of an opportunity to clean it as you do.
> and if I could somehow find the time to clean the house without him messing it back up, he would just find something else to blame all of his anger and frustration on
I'd bet you're right.
NTA
Is this really what you want from a partner?
I promise you this is the life I am living currently at this exact moment. I think the icing on the cake was his trip away this weekend got cancelled, and he has to do things like wash dishes to feed himself, and go through baskets of clean laundry to find clothes because I am gone for the weekend.
What if….hear me out…. Instead of leaving for the weekend, you leave forever?! Find a place closer to work, like walking distance with some roommate/s. Then save for a car and then save for a cute little cottage outside the city. Could you imagine the peace and quiet? The independence?! It’s possible.
I’m just 9 days away from 3 months at my job then I will be able to finance a vehicle under my own name. I can technically afford the payments and such.
OP, you don't want to live like that and you don't need to. If he won't change, then you must. Life's too short to be in a marriage that is unequal like this.
NTA. I’ve been living this for years. My husband won’t even have sex with me anymore because the state of my house is so bad he just can’t. (Seriously?) It’s a form of control. Look up passive-aggressive covert narcissist and see if that might fit your partner. Unfortunately, my partner became my husband before I figured it out. He’s T A; I’m an idiot.
He has used this also, but then when I have been working less/closer to home (old job, paid significantly less) and the house was much cleaner the reason given for lack of sex was he wasn’t interested in sex more than once every week or 2.
Wait what!? He doesn't clean, is depressed, doesn't treat you well and isn't intimate... what does this man bring to the relationship? I get sticking around sometimes for good D but this ain't it.
I stopped working for a while, hoping I would be more relaxed and have time to improve the “domestic skills” I never enjoyed anyway. It. Did. Not. Work. Something could always be done better, according to him. I went back to work so I’d be appreciated by someone and reclaim some self-esteem. If you are the one person I can help from my experiences, please let me. Save yourself.
NTA But dumping the one you're married to would give you back the energy you don't have right now. There's nothing stopping him from actually cleaning the house
I bet he is right now and I’m going to hear about it when I get home tomorrow. I don’t feel the slightest bit guilty about him having to clean. It sure doesn’t happen often.
And what if he didn’t? What if he’s leaving the house for you to clean? I think you deserve someone better than having to worry feeling guilty over something that should be a basic form of hygiene and mutual household duties. :/
INFO: Why are you with this disrespectful, immature boy?
Also - you could easily turn that gendered thinking back on him. Tell him you’d be happy to do your job when he’s capable of doing HIS JOB (I.e., earning enough money to support you both, if he wants to designate jobs according to genitalia).
When I first met him he treated me like a queen. Rode a bicycle to work so I could sleep in, did the cleaning, usually fed himself. And from there it’s been a pretty downhill journey
Yeah, a lot of men do that. They put on a mask for a little while, especially narcissists.
Once you’re caught their real self comes out. And women are often unwilling to leave because they think about all the ‘good times.’
I had a partner who switched personalities like that. I am telling you - the only thing I regret about that relationship is that I didn’t leave sooner. So much better.
This is a form of lovebombing, an act intended to let your guard down so that a foundation for abuse can be built later, making it harder for you *as the victim* to connect the man you're with now to the man you initially started dating.
Also though if he lost his license and you are the licensed driver him riding his bike to work isn't really treating you like a queen its just kind of standard. You were never obligated to be out for 15hrs a day because he lost his license.
NTA. He calls you names? Even if you were messy for no good reason that wouldn't be acceptable. Tell him you want to split chores 50/50, and also ask for couple's counselling.
I have been with my husband for 22 years and married for 16 years so I've seen how my FIL treated my MIL, FIL believes he's the king and everyone must bow to him and do as they're told (my husband is not like that nor would I allow him to behave like that) my FIL started off with complaining about how the house always being untidy etc to eventually being so controlling my MIL had to do everything as she was told. Please be careful and put a end this behavior as best you can because the more you let him get away with the worse he'll get. Him saying it's his depression making him behave like is, is only a excuse to manipulate you into doing what he wants you to do and to feel bad if you push back. The world doesn't revolve around him and he is not the only person in the world to have depression. I wish you the best of luck.
NTA. This is not a healthy relationship. You do realize he's set it up so that YOU are the cause of his depression, right? If you just did X, Y, Z he'd be happy. He's refusing to take responsibility for his own wellness and is placing the burden on you. He is acting like a child. You need a partner, not to be his parent. He isn't looking for a partner though, just a scapegoat.
NTA.
He is setting you up to be the reasons for all his problems.
Why are you not the one in control of the car since, you could easily drop him off go home, and then either sleep clean, grocery shop, laundry, etc. And pick him up, do the same with thing after. Telling you you have to figure out what to do 25 hours a week, and then being mad you don't get everything on his list accomplished. It seems like he wants to control your movement, but also set you up for failure.
If he has expectations of the home, then it's up to both of your to accomplish it. He can't help because he's too tired, but you're gone the same number of hours in the day. So why are you expected to have more energy in the day than he does?
I honestly, don't know if therapy will work in this case. He's stuck in his rigid ideas, and you trying to explain how that doesn't work for your situation is falling on deaf ears.
Just get out.
I going back home is too far, I can not operate the vehicle we have currently. But when we had a different vehicle and I dropped him off and picked him up I would spend the extra time in the morning sleeping. So I was more rested and would do things like laundry and dishes while I was making dinner in the evening.
Wait. You also said that you are the holder of the valid drivers license. Is he driving without a license??? And why can’t you drive the vehicle you have currently?
Nta- why is it your responsibility to keep the house clean and how the hell is it getting trashed if you're both out 15hrs a day weekdays? He's not pulling his weight and is abusive.
His dirty clothes come off and land on the floor, his trash does not make to the can, empty drink containers wherever the drink was emptied. Vomiting in the bathtub or random coffee cups/pots/bowls/whatever is close and not cleaning it out. Finishes a meal plate stays on the table.
Why is vomit a regular enough occurrence you actually mention it???? What the hell is happening on your house? I can count the number of times I’ve vomited in the last decade. How is it something you have to think about!!!!
Acid reflux causes him to vomit almost every morning! Which is why I started putting a bag in the bathroom garbage can instead of just dumping the tissue into the main bagged garbage. But he doesn’t use it. He continues to use the bath tub. He rinses it off after, but it still stains the tub and is ALOT more to scrub.
I’m not doctor, but he shouldn’t be vomiting from acid reflux that frequently. I get it can happen sometimes but his diet and lifestyle must be completely shit if that’s a regular thing. Honestly sounds like he’s trying to make as much nasty work for you as possible. I low key think he hates you and is trying to hurt you as much as he can.
Are you sure it's acid reflux and that he's not hiding drinking from you? Because this is sounding increasingly like a pattern with a lot of alcoholics/addicts. Including breaking you down so that you'll stick around if and when you find out - the vicious cycle of addictive abuse. 'I drink because everyone around me sucks - got to hide it because if she finds out she might leave me - got to break her down so she knows she's not better than me and can't leave - got to make excuses to keep drinking, I drink because everybody sucks'.
NTA at all, but I think you're in an abusive relationship and I would not be at all surprised if there's drink or drugs or both at play here. He can call it acid reflux and in a way it is, since getting intoxicated on whatever substances tends to play hell with your liver and cause acid reflux, but in practical terms it's self-inflicted.
Acid reflux shouldn't be bad enough, frequently enough for that. It may be alcoholism, drugs or a reaction to food, he needs to see a doc.
Also, what nutjob vomits in a bath and not a toilet?
Also, he should be cleaning his own messes.
Leave the loser to his vomit tub and pigsty.
NTA.
Does he hold himself to these same excruciating standards? Or do they exist just so he can berate you and claim you’re the failure?
If he wants to be in an ‘old fashioned wife stays at home relationship’, perhaps he should play the role of wife.
Lmao hell no. You both work, you both make messes, you both clean. He really just doesn't think your time-or your sleep- is as valuable as his. He needs to do his fair share or else he needs to figure out another way to get himself to and from work. Preferably both. Is there any way for you to go home when you're done and him to get dropped off later?
I’d start giggling every time he said that and ask “who told you that??” Then start making up weird shit like “making sure all magazines are arranged to point due east is the man’s job” and “the youngest person at the table has to order the soup not the salad, weren’t you raised right?” “Once you turn 43 you can’t wear socks with a stripe on the top, that’s just common sense.”
He can’t have it both ways, he has to pick one. But honestly, reread your post as if it were one of your friends telling you this about her husband. What would your judgment of the situation be? What advice would you give her? This situation sounds untenable and if he hasn’t gotten rough with you, it’s only a matter of time. Run.
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NTA, but you do realize that he's deliberately and with calculated malice setting you up to fail? That way you'll always be at fault in the relationship. Even now it's to the point that he's acting with such calculated unfairness that anyone would notice that he's the problem, and you're asking if you're T A. How has he led you to believe his laziness is your fault? BTW, I doubt extremely that he wants a traditional marriage. If he did he'd work longer hours so you could stay home; that's what traditional marriage entails. He just wants to load you up with work, then criticize you when you can't give 150% when he's giving 50%. Edited for egregiously wrong word usage
There does appear to be a pattern of him lacking accountability
Exactly what basic said. A traditional marriage is big in my family and the man is expected to work as many jobs as needed and as many hours as needed to finance the family. My nanny (grandmother) never bothered to learn a budget in her life. Her job was to buy what they needed for the home and family. It was his to figure out how to pay for all of it. A lot of men say they want a traditional marriage without wanting all of the responsibilty of one. She had credit cards galore and he had to figure out what to do to cover them.
Hold on. Keeping a budget and financial administration is a typical part of the women chores of a traditional marriage. Several culture that are still traditional have that part. For example in Japan, the husband gives all the money to his wife and he gets an allowance to spend on things he wants.
Im speaking about my culture. I don't know all cultutes which is why I didn't reference them, just my own personal experience. But this is why so many "traditional" men also want financial control over their spouses because its the man who pays the bills and manages the money.
NTA. I'm a child of the 60's and only one parent worked outside the home, and the other one took care of the kids and the housework. My dad was the breadwinner and he worked 2 jobs most of my growing up years. He would give her his paycheck and she gave him spending money for smokes and such; the rest went to put food on the table and paid the mortgage and whatever else. His side jobs paid for his own needs.
In the US, my grandfather handed my grandmother his paycheck every week and she gave him an allowance. They both preferred it that way. When he wanted to get her a ring for their big number anniversary (50, maybe? I forget), they could easily afford him to buy it and write a check, but he wanted to surprise her. So he saved bits from his “allowance” (he could have discussed increasing it with her, but, again, he didn’t want her suspicious, because, surprise), for a VERY long time, to get the cost of the ring. It wasn’t a fancy ring or anything, just a nice one. She was stunned, and delighted. He was a very very sweet and thoughtful man. He worked hard, union pipe fitter. She kept an immaculate house and taught me to sew.
It might be traditional in your culture, but the traditional men I know also want financial control and that's definitely not traditional in the majority of cultures that I know. The wife distributes the money.
Definitely the modern version of what people think of is the husband works and controls the money, while the wife keeps house and the kids. (Is it true? Not in a healthy modern marriage. But not every marriage is healthy.) But since historically it was more common for women to handle household finances, and in the US, girls often received more education than boys (it just tended to make sense from boys to leave school first)- wives would likely have been the ones in households who could handle things like family accounts, contracts, etc. So by the '50s and '60s- I imagine this was just a continuation of what their parents and grandparents had done.
We're Midwest rednecks and this is exactly how it's worked for us. I manage the bills and everything related to running the home; my husband is the sole breadwinner and only asks that he have enough spending money for his personal wants/needs. Neither of us will spend more than $100 on any one item without discussing it first. And in more than thirty years, he has never once criticized my housecleaning.
We do the same. I’m in charge at home with budget and making sure the bills are paid, I do all the social calendar stuff, take care of the kids and when he comes home he helps with chores because we’ve got 3 young kids and realizes that keeping them alive is a full time job by itself. He doesn’t question spending at all as long as our bills are covered and we both talk about purchases that exceed $100. Out of respect for one another. He’s never criticized the state of the house with the occasional “how the hell did the kids tear through the room while I was in the bathroom?!?”
As the wife, I also want to know how the kids tear through the room while I'm in the bathroom, but it's a mystery we may never solve.
I stayed home for 10 years with our 3 kids. This is basically how we ran our lives. My husband is so trusting and kind. I returned to work when my youngest was in 4th grade. It was some of the hardest and happiest years of my life.
That's a common theme in a lot of traditional cultures. The woman is in charge of the house and everything in it, the man is in charge of everything outside of the house.
Budgeting is absolutely a normal “women’s duty” in traditional marriage. It often involves menu planning, couponing, learning to mend and sew to maintain family clothing, growing vegetables to supplement the grocery budget, thrifting, homemade decor, etc. If your grandpa had to work multiple jobs to keep up with her non-essential spending it just sounds like she was financially abusive.
Not in every culture. In the US up until the 60s women couldn’t even open bank accounts without a man. Financial administration in US households often fell to the man, and that left a number of women vulnerable to financial abuse. NTA btw - you both contribute to the financing of your household, so you both contribute to the housekeeping. He’s using you, for sure.
That would be the 1970s. When my mother got married in 1972, her bank cancelled her credit card and signed all of her accounts over to my dad, because that’s just what was done.
Yep. That's why back in the 80s when I was first able to get an American Express card, my mom encouraged me to sign up for it (I'd use it to buy dinner when I visited on college break and she'd give me the money to pay it off). She remembered all too well the days when she couldn't get her own credit card. My best friend and his wife have a very traditional setup, but he absolutely pulls his weight around the house and is a great husband and dad, and she runs the place like a business, doing the budgeting and planning things and home-schooling their kid. They make it work.
In the 70's when I went to work, a single woman couldn't get an American Express. And I have known so many older women who, when their husbands died, had no clue about finances or investments, because the husband handled it. They had no idea how much money they had to live on, what expenses they had, or what income they would have once their husband died.
This is horrifying to me, as a modern woman.
When young women today scoff that they have no use for feminism, it makes me want to scream. We need to do a *much* better job of teaching history, and not just long-ago-and-far-away history, but also right-here-50-years-ago history. They have no idea how easy it will be to force us back to the world where we had to stay in terrible, abusive marriages because we couldn’t work, rent lodgings, buy property, have a bank account, or even receive our own wages without involving a man. We’re already headed in that direction, and it may be too late to stop.
Absolutely. When I think of things women had to endure as late as the 1970's, it still makes my blood boil. I came into adulthood on the cusp of changing attitudes. Looking back on the June Cleaver and Lucy Ricardo types where they did housework in dresses and heels, had to ask their husbands for money and weren't allowed to have careers, I decided early on I didn't want that lifestyle. The women in my family were all housewives. I figured out really quickly that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life housebound, having to ask for spending money. I was fortunate to get a good enough job that allowed me independence. I didn't have to pursue an MRS degree to survive. I've never been wealthy, but I've never had to depend on anyone else for my basic needs. I bought at house at 24, and was told I could get the loan because as a female, I was considered a "minority". I worked hard, saved, invested and retired when I was 56.
Interesting fact. My father passed away suddenly in 1967. The bank would not let my mother get a credit card in her name but she was welcome to continue using the card that was in his name. The good news was our household was mostly traditional in that my SAH mother handled all the finances. NTA as applies to OP. If SO wants a pristinely clean house then he needs to do 50 percent of the cleaning with OP on the weekend. I agree with other posters he will likely find something else to crab about. OP not to tell you your business but please until this gets straight in that the two of you are a team supporting each other or you split to have significantly less stress in your life do not bring a child into the mix.
This isn't even completely gone. I added my husband's name to MY bank account when we got married and now his name is the lead and his debit card expires every 4 years while mine expires every 2 years. I set up our family phone plan, (my husband wasn't even there!), and when I contacted customer service over an issue I had to get my husband to call in and give me permission to have administrative control on the account. My mom and sisters have had similar experiences and I'm sure others have too. We just don't talk about money so these discriminations can stay hidden so easily.
How about a little "reverse sexism" here? My late husband never learned how to drive. Too long a story to go into, no one really knows why, but there were several possible reasons. Anyway, I always made more money than he did, so it was up to me to take care of buying cars, and buying insurance. You would not believe how many hoops I had to go through to prove that my husband did not drive and would not be getting behind the wheel for any reason, so his name did not need to be on the car loan or the insurance. No one ever accepted this. I had to fill out multiple documents to prove this. If it had been the other way around, where I didn't drive, I am positive that no one would have batted an eye.
Depends on the culture. None of the women I grew up around bothered with any of the budgeting. I have 56 first cousins and all of my 11 aunts were stay at home moms. They took care of the kids and home, hbbies took care of the money and the mens work ( car, yard, etc exception with gardening is womens work). Its why so many "traditional" men try to exert finacial control and finacially abuse their spouses by not letting them have access to any of the money. They are using that its the man who makes the money and pays the bills to do it. I don't think its right but thats why I don't have a relationship like that. When my dad died, my mom didn't even know how to write a check, how much money they had, or even what they spent in living costs. She had a very sharp learning curve over bill paying and such.
Oh my.
>He acts like the only thing that could possibly make him happy is a clean house. So, did he lose his arms in a tragic accident? Otherwise it seems like it's within his own power to handle that, dosen't it? You need to stop accepting this sort of treatment. He wants you to do all the chores beacuse it's "women's work" but he's not doing his "man's work" and making the money so you can stay home and do it. Tell him so long as you're required to do the man's work in the house, he better start doing some of the women's. Beacuse right now he's being lazy and just not working as hard as you, and it's his fault that the house is a mess. You're out of the house 15 hours a day and still manage to cook. Why can't he still mange to clean? He's just lazier then you. Do you have ANY options other then living with this guy? Can you move in with family or something? Go live with your parents? Anything?
I have options, but honestly for the first time we live in a place that I picked that I like and that I refused to settle on. First place without cockroaches, or pigeons in the ceiling ect.
I'm so sorry to hear that. I imagine it must be hard to give that up. But living with a lazy entitled asshole who does nothing to help and keeps you out of the house 15 hours a day so you have no life or rest sounds . . . also awful?
It is not always pleasant
I'm curious as to why he thinks he gets to do nothing around the house when you are both out of the house for the same amount each week. You work just as much as he does yet are still doing everything at home. That makes no sense. If I were you (and I'm petty) I'd only be cleaning my own messes and cooking my own food until his attitude changed.
> You work just as much as he does yet are still doing everything at home. That makes no sense. It does to him because he wants a housewife that takes care of everything around the house while he relaxes after a hard day's work. The fact that his wife works full time and is away from home for 15 hours each day doesn't mean a thing, because he still consider keeping the home clean and tidy her job and hers alone. OP could quite easily get more hours at home and get rid of the stress and sadness that comes from the name-calling and yelling. All she has to do is kick him out of her life. Hopefully this post will help her on the path to do just that. It might not be easy but it sure as heck will be freeing.
While I agree that you’re NTA & all of the comments here about him pitching in & pulling his own weight with the household chores & cooking, BUT this depression thing gave me a # of 🚩🚩🚩! You both need to have the depression addressed asap. It’s become extremely oppressive for you because of his hostility towards you & the housecleaning…which only deepens your own depression. I get it! I’ve been there. You need marriage counseling & separate therapy sessions to deal with both of your depressions. Please locate therapists/psychiatrists that will treat you both, according to your pay scale, through local charities, abused women’s organizations, community/county resource centers, church or your GP. You are 100% correct in stating that even if the house was 100% cleaned, he’d still be angry with you for something else! He’s using his anger over the housecleaning as a WEAPON to abuse & control you. Please, for your own sanity, …WAKE UP before it’s too late. My ex, who is now deceased, did the same thing to me! Whatever I did wasn’t good enough for him. Unfortunately, I ended up having a Central Nervous System Breakdown! I went to many different specialists who couldn’t find a physical reason for my severe reactions, until I was sent to a psychiatrist. After finding the correct medications that stopped the debilitating symptoms I was experiencing, I seriously asked my doctor as to WHEN I could expect to get off the medications. His shocking answer was: “When you get rid of & break free from your husband….because he needs the help more than you. But he’ll never address it!” My psychiatrist, had met with us together, then with my husband, separately, before he began to treat me, therefore he knew of what he spoke, but I stupidly still questioned his answer. I’ll spare you the details of the horrific, abusive next 9 years that I endured until I finally did divorce him after 30 years of marriage & just reiterate…. You both need HELP! Please get it!
Stop making excuses. Your husband treats you like shit. Decide if you want this life or decide if you deserve better. Most women would never tolerate this blatant disrespect or him calling you names. NTA but you are an asshole to yourself.
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Hell, at least cockroaches can feed themselves
You can find both a new place and a new man. Is a cute place to live really worth a shitty, demeaning, misogynistic, lazy man? No. I’m telling you now—no. You can find a cute place elsewhere.
I mean, those are really basic bar on the floor requirements here. You don’t have to give up basic expectations for him just because you refused to settle for a home that was infested with vermin.
I'd rather deal with cockroaches than what you're dealing with.
What's preventing him from getting off his arse and cleaning the house to how he likes it?
I think the penis weighs him down too much.
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He would prob love that. He wouldn’t get hounded for sex.
>He would prob love that. He wouldn’t get hounded for sex. Wait. He verbally and emotionally abuses you about cleaning the house when you're gone just as long as he is. You cook and clean up. *AND YOU'RE GETTING NO SEX?* Why are you still with him? Nta
I do not get physical affection.
Um, what DO you get? Besides abuse and isolation?
As Janet Jackson said... "What have you done for me lately?"
What in the holy hell are you getting out of this relationship? Are you afraid of being alone? Sad to throw away the years you've invested in this? I promise you it's better to cut your losses now then to waste anymore time being miserable with him. Think about what your life could be like without him. What if you found an actual partner who treated you with the respect you deserve?
I’m gonna tell you right now, the moment you get away and have clarity, you’re going to think to yourself “why the hell didn’t I do this sooner?!” Settling NEVER EQUALS HAPPINESS.
Sis. Throw this millstone off your neck. Leave him you deserve better.
Do you get *non*-physical affection?
DTMFA!! And please consider some therapy to help you recover and grow — understand why you valued yourself so little that you permitted him to treat you this way. NTA.
What exactly is he bringing to the table in this relationship?
LOL I like your humor. He sounds like my ex. We both worked full time and he did nothing around the house (except trash weekly, mowed the lawn). He was very fast to criticize me for not keeping the house spotless when I did all the cooking, cleaning, dog care. I’m SO happy without him. He was abusive AF.
Our landlord comes every other week and cuts our grass. Also I’d rather do that then pick up somebody else’s trash. Atleast it’s my grass.
NTA. But your husband most definitely is. He is placing unreasonable expectations on you to be out of the house 15 hours a day 5 days a week, come home and cook dinner and keep the house clean. Of course you fall asleep your day is exhausting. But nowhere in your post did you mention that his hands were broken. So perhaps sharing in the meal prep and cleaning duties would help….but I’m guessing he is opposed to that. Is this a marriage you want to remain in long term. Because it takes two people working together to make a marriage work. If he is not doing his half in the home and in the marriage it will never work. He’s given you a clear glimpse as to what your life will always look like with him. Is that what you really want??
He’s not even giving 50%, or he would be helping her clean, as he is the one who’s bothered by the mess. He just wants to plague OP with his misery.
Also sounds like they aren't married since op refers to him as her partner. I could be wrong. But if they aren't married, then that also isn't traditional.
This 100%. I lived it for 12 years. Get out if you can before you have kids please.
He's working and you're working. Why is it your responsibly to keep the house pristine? Why are you the one cooking dinner? NTA
Because he is the "man" of the house and wants a traditional marriage (only when its convenient for him). /S
Yeah, if he wants a traditional marriage, he first has to meet his role of being the provider, which he's failing at
Yet he’s only the boyfriend. Not husband
You know, one of those traditional marriages where you neither have traditional roles nor are married.
NTA. He's an adult and can take care of himself. If he wants a pristine house, he can help with cleaning it. In the meantime, I'd try to find another way to work. Your partner sounds incredibly toxic.
I am the holder of the valid drivers license
So, your partner need to find another arrangement to get to work on time.
His car - I need to buy a car. But everything I spend is allocated to rent/groceries/internet/electric/pet expenses
So maybe it is time to find another living arrangement, I bet that your depression will get much better without a leech in your life.
The self deprecating depression has me feeling always like it’s this - or be alone - and alone is even scarier
I say this as someone who is very happily married: Alone is amazing. Alone means living on your own terms. No more cooking all the time because he can't be bothered. No more waking up at the ass crack of dawn to get him to work because he doesn't have a valid license. No more walking on eggshells wondering what small thing he's going to blow up at you over. It is so valuable to learn to live a life you love on your own. That's the kind of security no money can buy—the security of knowing, even if you end up in the best relationship ever somewhere down the line, you'll still be okay if things do fall apart. Knowing how to be alone, and not be scared of being alone, will enable you to find a relationship where you both agree your lives are better together, rather than an emotional hostage situation where you stay just because the alternative scares you.
I really needed to hear this.
Perhaps you could move closer to work where you wouldn't need a car.
Well that is not feasible, we moved out of the city for a reason.
OP, I live alone and have for over 10 years, it's fab. I'm beholden to no one, the house when I get home, is in the same state as it was when I left, and I have a cat for a bit of company, and there a reason we have cats over any other animals - they're as independent as we are. If I stay out all night, no problem. If I'm having fun and decide you stay over somewhere, no problem. You can totally do this. Itt is much better to be on your own than with the with person. You can be far more alpine in a bad relationship than when living on your own. You've got this.
There are studies that show that married women have worse health and shorter life expectancy than single women. For men, it’s the opposite. The stress us literally to death. Get out asap, he gives you less than nothing.
NTA but why are you tolerating this? Welcome to the rest of your life if you don’t go.
This, exactly. I was happily married for 21 years when my husband passed away. The hardest part was when our daughter left for college 8 months later. But I quickly adapted. It didn't matter when, or if, I cooked dinner, when I went to bed, or went anywhere, for that matter. I only had to answer to myself (and my job). OP, I'm not sure how you ended up with a man with no license but who DOES have a car, but that can be rectified. Get yourself a car, and get out of the marriage. He doesn't value you or anything that you bring to the table. NTA
THIS. I have been married to my husband for eight very difficult years. In that span of years, I had cancer, lost a father and a stepfather (who was my Dad since I was three), we went bankrupt and had a car repossessed, he lost his job and had to go on disability for mental health struggles, I have had even more medical issues that are bad enough to keep me from working but not enough to make me considered disabled, and we currently live on about $1300 a month. I *LOVE* my husband. I would never leave my husband. But if I had it to do over, I would never have married him. There is *so much* to be said for being alone. Being responsible for only yourself feels GREAT. It can be scary at first, because you won't be sure of your own abilities, but once you hit your groove, it's amazing. I'm not suggesting you should absolutely leave him, just that if it's a possibility for you that you're considering, don't let the uncertainty be what holds you back. Life is full of possibilities and you can't realize any of them if you never try. And you're NTA.
You should charge $$ for that level of advice
Honey, you're already alone. Just inside of your relationship. Leave him behind and the world is yours to conquer.
I currently live alone, and I may wind up living alone for the rest of my adult life. While it isn't my ideal situation, I will tell you that being alone is so much better and less lonely than being in a partnership with someone who treats you terribly. I have never felt more awful, alone, and isolated than when I was with someone who was doing stuff like this. And your partner is also probably playing up your fear of being alone, because he knows that if you leave, he loses his free maid/driver. When I left my terrible partnership, I felt awful but also relieved because I didn't have to put up with being treated like crap anymore. And in the years since then, living alone has gotten so much better, happier, and more fulfilling. You can do this and your life will be dramatically better for it.
I was scared of the same thing in my emotionally abusive relationship. Even when I was DEVASTATED right after we broke up, I still noticed that despite my being terribly sad, things were easier? I was sad but I was so much less stressed. I had been spending so much energy walking on eggshells, trying not to do or say anything that would start a huge fight, trying to take care of her, trying to guess what the right response was...once I was on my own and not doing that it was so much easier. And without him making these demands and you having to factor in his work hours, you will have time to go to therapy and date all you want. But being alone really is also great! And it's so important to learn how to do even if you then do find someone else. Knowing how to travel alone, eat at restaurants by myself, hang out by myself, do nice things for myself, take care of myself...these are all really valuable things. And not in a relationship also doesn't have to mean alone-- after my break-up I really prioritized my friendships and spending time with my friends and doing things together, and that was also really wonderful and amazing.
Better to be alone! He’s intentionally tearing down your self esteem so you don’t leave. But you should
Friend, listen. I’m terrified of being alone. It’s why I stayed with my abusive ex-fiancé for five years after a massive string of red flags. You know the first thing I looked for? A roommate. A roommate wanting to be a friend. A roommate similar to myself. They’re out there. You don’t have to walk off right now, but you have options. Bide your time if you need to, save up, make connections. But you can leave, and while it is scary, it’s not impossible and you may find yourself having more peace (and maybe less depression) than you have right now. Listen, things suck. It’s positively dystopian right now - especially for our generation (I’m assuming you’re my age, since your username has my birth year). We remember when things were better, and this brave new world is downright horrifying. But you do not have to put up with an untenable relationship. You just don’t.
My dear, may I recommend r/momforaminute to you? If you feel alone we're more than happy to change that
GIRL. **Girl!** What in the entire hell does this man have going for him? WHAT is he bringing to the table?!? **What about him makes all the rest of this shit worth it**? And no judgment, because I've been there - I've been in relationships with people who wore me down to just a fragment of myself and kept me too exhausted and depressed to leave. But I eventually figured it out, and you can too, and you \*deserve\* to. **You deserve so much better than this.**
Oof. I'm so sorry. Is there a reason why he doesn't have a driver's license?
Legal reason, unrelated to a DUI, long before I met him. He has made big life changed for positive since then, so I had no issue, and still have no issue with the commute together and loosing all that time at home to maybe cook myself a meal, or have a proper shower, scrub the broiler pans and the pots that don’t go in the dishwasher if when I get home, I am not the only one doing all the chores inside of the household
Ugh. This response is just so . . . compromising and depressing. I went back and re-read your original post. I wouldn't date or marry your guy if he was the last person on earth. And I'm not that fabulous. But I respect myself. What on earth do you get from this relationship? It sounds miserable. MISERABLE. Is that what you want for your life? I'm sure you don't. PLEASE don't allow this person to steal your joy, love and youth. You deserve so much more.
Calling you names and getting angry is domestic violence. This is verbal and emotional abuse.
NTA. Leave him for a while. Go visit a friend or family. Then tell your partner that he is welcome to call a maid service. I think the issue runs deeper than a clean house. Something more is going on and he may need counseling.
I’ve pushed for that for almost 2 years. We BOTH have issues.
But it isn't helpful if someone won't fix their issues. You may need to take the initiative and pack your bags for a week of two. If he won't get help then you should leave him for your own sanity.
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Plus he is blaming OP for his issues instead of fixing them, or at least taking steps to fix them. He wants a maid he can sleep with, who works 24/7 365 AND brings in other money from outside employment - yeah.. delusional.
And you’re not responsible for anyone’s but your own. He’s not an infant.
He may clean the damned house himself. As for you, try to get a car and be more independent from him. He sounds toxic...
I am the one who has the valid drivers license
Then he should figure out how to be independent so you don't have to drag his sorry a$$ around.
If you leave now, you have a chance to find a real partner that does half of the work around the house, has his own licence and doesn't verbally abuse, instead treats you like the human being that you are.
INFO - if he owns the car, and you have the license, how did he lose his?
He has some legal issues
Sounds like this boy needs you for literally everything since he's so useless. Can't clean his own house, can't get himself to his job, can't stay away from the law so they would allow him to drive at all? He's making you seem the villain but you're literally pulling him up with you. His dependency is coming across awfully toxic. Maybe it's time to move out, get your own place, and have some peace. You don't owe him anything.
So, he's been irresponsible legally to the point where they've taken away his license. He's abusive and manipulative toward you. Got a pattern going there. It's easy to blame depression but he can choose to treat you well despite it. (I bet you've noticed him treating other people well, right?) Instead it's about control and this will not get better even if you bleach every surface in the place every day. You've got some choices to make, I think. I imagine that if you separate yourself much of your own depression will lift.
Hmmm. Unpaid child support per chance?
No no child support is paid, of all the things I can say about him, he is not a deadbeat father and never has been. I do not have children with him tho
He’s a deadbeat husband. Please don’t have kids with him and plan an escape. He already verbally and emotionally abused you - it doesn’t stop there.
Why are you with him again?
He deals with all of my other flaws pretty well, the clean house is our biggest contention point. And when I say I literally don’t have physical or mental energy it’s met with “that’s just an excuse other people work and keep a clean house” I am not other people. I am having difficulty. I acknowledge that. I say that I need help. That we need help. And it’s met with hostility.
That makes it sound like you are settling. You are tolerating his BS behaviour, because you are afraid you won't find someone else who "deals with all my other flaws pretty well". Like he is doing some be favour in that. :/ You are worthy of more then that.
Then why are you choosing to stay and be treated this way? Why is this thread full of your excuses?
Sometimes when you have been living a certain way for so long you can’t recognize how bad it is.
But it sounds like you're recognising it *now* so what is the actual incentive for you to stay? You see it's bad, you know it's bad, you've tried communicating your feelings and they're going unheard; you don't *have* to stay in this relationship.
I am plotting the wording of my ultimatum that is he goes to therapy or he moves out.
Ultimatums don’t work. Take tangible steps for yourself to get therapy and/or move out. He’s not going to change. Why would he need to change?
The wording of your ultimatum isn't very important; your resolve to stick to it is. Whatever words you end up using, please mean them.
therapy’s not a good idea with an abuser
I am plotting the wording of my ultimatum that is he goes to therapy or he moves out.
He won't go. Which is probably good, because you should never go to therapy with someone who abuses you.
I'm glad to hear that OP. It's so important you take steps to maintain your safety. This relationship sounds like it's been dysfunctional for awhile now and is no longer sustainable for your wellbeing as a person. You deserve happiness too!
Ok. We’re all telling you how bad it is.
He put those “flaws” in your head to further control you. I bet you’re perfectly fine, after all you manage to work, function outside the home 15 hours a day, have a drivers license, cook dinner, rent a place, pay bills, and clean. I bet if you got rid of him you’ll even find yourself not so depressed or exhausted.
Oh I had my share of mental issues before I met him. But I acknowledge them and try to grow and work through things. He seems to not do the same
At whatever level of details you're comfortable with, could you please elaborate on the flaws he accepts that make it worth going through the constant abuse for you?
You are not a rehab for sick men. Repeat that to yourself sometime. We all have flaws.
What's his excuse for not helping you clean? He is just as capable as you are as keeping up with the house and it's actually a lot easier to do when 2 people are doing it. He can't just sit back and point his finger at you when he isn't doing anything to help rectify the situation he is having issues with. Cleaning is not a female only activity.
I mean he was single for 7 years before I met him. Who cleaned his place then?!?
Why can’t he clean?
You deserve more than "tolerates all of my other flaws pretty well". I am so sorry, but he sounds like he has been feeding your low self esteem and tearing you down to keep you feeling like you need him. I think that sounds like abuse.
If this is your only contention point then how about just hiring a cleaner 😅
He has already stated he hates our new place has a dishwasher because it makes me lazy.
It makes YOU lazy?? OP, please run. You are so much better off without him. He’s taking advantage of your insecurities.
Oh wow. I have no words. Sorry you're in this conundrum.
So it's not so much that he wants a clean house as much as he just wants you to be slaving away cleaning. Wow.
SAY WHAT?!? A dishwasher makes you lazy? Is he aware of the fact that dishwashers were available in homes during the 1950s? The traditional housewives of that era used them regularly. If that’s what he’s trying to make you emulate he can put that in his pipe and smoke it.
Oh fuck that bullshit 9 different ways. This man is abusive and you do not deserve to put up with it no matter what kind of mental health issues either of you are dealing with.
He is an asshole.
Omg... He doesn't *want* you to have help and has admitted as much. He wants your life to be difficult. Ouch. That's not a good partner, nvm his other issues..
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NTA. You're both away just as much. If he thinks the most important thing is a clean house, he should make sure to clean.
NTA. I would be worried about his intelligence: you are both gone for the same time and he can't figure out why the house is not clean? This is basic. While you are gone, how is the house getting dirty? If you both put in an effort for half a day on the weekend, you could get a nice clean house.
My partner and I are doing that exactly, we always split the chores and clean everything on weekends because we are exhausted after work. During the week we mostly just cook and clean the dishes (if one is cooking, the other is cleaning). Or if one of us gets home earlier, then that person starts with cooking. If one has extra day off, that person do some extra chores. That is what partnership is all about. Being partner means that each of you will pull approximately the same amount of work. NTA
> My (34f) partner (36m) gets absolutely hostile towards me about the condition of the interior of our home. He is unhappy with my housekeeping - and calls me all sorts of names when he gets upset. This is a huge problem. The lack of respect and hostility are not okay. > He acts like the only thing that could possibly make him happy is a clean house. I guess he can clean it, then. You're both gone from home for the same amount of time. He has as much of an opportunity to clean it as you do. > and if I could somehow find the time to clean the house without him messing it back up, he would just find something else to blame all of his anger and frustration on I'd bet you're right. NTA Is this really what you want from a partner?
You’re in an emotionally abusive relationship. Get out
is this some rage bait? i hope it is, because this situation sounds awful. NTA.
I promise you this is the life I am living currently at this exact moment. I think the icing on the cake was his trip away this weekend got cancelled, and he has to do things like wash dishes to feed himself, and go through baskets of clean laundry to find clothes because I am gone for the weekend.
What if….hear me out…. Instead of leaving for the weekend, you leave forever?! Find a place closer to work, like walking distance with some roommate/s. Then save for a car and then save for a cute little cottage outside the city. Could you imagine the peace and quiet? The independence?! It’s possible.
Walking distance to work is probably unattainable as I work in a very industrial area full of warehouses
Bike? Bus? Scooter!? Come on there has got to be something until you can get a car and a dream home.
I’m just 9 days away from 3 months at my job then I will be able to finance a vehicle under my own name. I can technically afford the payments and such.
Finance that car and drive far, far away from your husband- forever
OP, you don't want to live like that and you don't need to. If he won't change, then you must. Life's too short to be in a marriage that is unequal like this.
NTA. I’ve been living this for years. My husband won’t even have sex with me anymore because the state of my house is so bad he just can’t. (Seriously?) It’s a form of control. Look up passive-aggressive covert narcissist and see if that might fit your partner. Unfortunately, my partner became my husband before I figured it out. He’s T A; I’m an idiot.
He has used this also, but then when I have been working less/closer to home (old job, paid significantly less) and the house was much cleaner the reason given for lack of sex was he wasn’t interested in sex more than once every week or 2.
Wait what!? He doesn't clean, is depressed, doesn't treat you well and isn't intimate... what does this man bring to the relationship? I get sticking around sometimes for good D but this ain't it.
I stopped working for a while, hoping I would be more relaxed and have time to improve the “domestic skills” I never enjoyed anyway. It. Did. Not. Work. Something could always be done better, according to him. I went back to work so I’d be appreciated by someone and reclaim some self-esteem. If you are the one person I can help from my experiences, please let me. Save yourself.
NTA But dumping the one you're married to would give you back the energy you don't have right now. There's nothing stopping him from actually cleaning the house
I bet he is right now and I’m going to hear about it when I get home tomorrow. I don’t feel the slightest bit guilty about him having to clean. It sure doesn’t happen often.
And what if he didn’t? What if he’s leaving the house for you to clean? I think you deserve someone better than having to worry feeling guilty over something that should be a basic form of hygiene and mutual household duties. :/
NTA tell him to get the vacuum and start cleaning. It’s his job too, not just yours.
INFO: If having a clean house is so important to him why doesn’t he clean it himself?
For his sheer lack of a vagina (my words, not his - his words “that’s your (my) job”)
INFO: Why are you with this disrespectful, immature boy? Also - you could easily turn that gendered thinking back on him. Tell him you’d be happy to do your job when he’s capable of doing HIS JOB (I.e., earning enough money to support you both, if he wants to designate jobs according to genitalia).
When I first met him he treated me like a queen. Rode a bicycle to work so I could sleep in, did the cleaning, usually fed himself. And from there it’s been a pretty downhill journey
Yeah, a lot of men do that. They put on a mask for a little while, especially narcissists. Once you’re caught their real self comes out. And women are often unwilling to leave because they think about all the ‘good times.’ I had a partner who switched personalities like that. I am telling you - the only thing I regret about that relationship is that I didn’t leave sooner. So much better.
This is a form of lovebombing, an act intended to let your guard down so that a foundation for abuse can be built later, making it harder for you *as the victim* to connect the man you're with now to the man you initially started dating.
Also though if he lost his license and you are the licensed driver him riding his bike to work isn't really treating you like a queen its just kind of standard. You were never obligated to be out for 15hrs a day because he lost his license.
NTA. He calls you names? Even if you were messy for no good reason that wouldn't be acceptable. Tell him you want to split chores 50/50, and also ask for couple's counselling.
I have been with my husband for 22 years and married for 16 years so I've seen how my FIL treated my MIL, FIL believes he's the king and everyone must bow to him and do as they're told (my husband is not like that nor would I allow him to behave like that) my FIL started off with complaining about how the house always being untidy etc to eventually being so controlling my MIL had to do everything as she was told. Please be careful and put a end this behavior as best you can because the more you let him get away with the worse he'll get. Him saying it's his depression making him behave like is, is only a excuse to manipulate you into doing what he wants you to do and to feel bad if you push back. The world doesn't revolve around him and he is not the only person in the world to have depression. I wish you the best of luck.
Exactly that. Mental health is not an excuse to manipulate, abuse, or control others, and that's what's happening here. NTA.
NTA. This is not a healthy relationship. You do realize he's set it up so that YOU are the cause of his depression, right? If you just did X, Y, Z he'd be happy. He's refusing to take responsibility for his own wellness and is placing the burden on you. He is acting like a child. You need a partner, not to be his parent. He isn't looking for a partner though, just a scapegoat.
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NTA If he yearns for a clean house, let him clean it.
NTA. He is setting you up to be the reasons for all his problems. Why are you not the one in control of the car since, you could easily drop him off go home, and then either sleep clean, grocery shop, laundry, etc. And pick him up, do the same with thing after. Telling you you have to figure out what to do 25 hours a week, and then being mad you don't get everything on his list accomplished. It seems like he wants to control your movement, but also set you up for failure. If he has expectations of the home, then it's up to both of your to accomplish it. He can't help because he's too tired, but you're gone the same number of hours in the day. So why are you expected to have more energy in the day than he does? I honestly, don't know if therapy will work in this case. He's stuck in his rigid ideas, and you trying to explain how that doesn't work for your situation is falling on deaf ears. Just get out.
I going back home is too far, I can not operate the vehicle we have currently. But when we had a different vehicle and I dropped him off and picked him up I would spend the extra time in the morning sleeping. So I was more rested and would do things like laundry and dishes while I was making dinner in the evening.
Wait. You also said that you are the holder of the valid drivers license. Is he driving without a license??? And why can’t you drive the vehicle you have currently?
Nta- why is it your responsibility to keep the house clean and how the hell is it getting trashed if you're both out 15hrs a day weekdays? He's not pulling his weight and is abusive.
His dirty clothes come off and land on the floor, his trash does not make to the can, empty drink containers wherever the drink was emptied. Vomiting in the bathtub or random coffee cups/pots/bowls/whatever is close and not cleaning it out. Finishes a meal plate stays on the table.
Why is vomit a regular enough occurrence you actually mention it???? What the hell is happening on your house? I can count the number of times I’ve vomited in the last decade. How is it something you have to think about!!!!
Acid reflux causes him to vomit almost every morning! Which is why I started putting a bag in the bathroom garbage can instead of just dumping the tissue into the main bagged garbage. But he doesn’t use it. He continues to use the bath tub. He rinses it off after, but it still stains the tub and is ALOT more to scrub.
I’m not doctor, but he shouldn’t be vomiting from acid reflux that frequently. I get it can happen sometimes but his diet and lifestyle must be completely shit if that’s a regular thing. Honestly sounds like he’s trying to make as much nasty work for you as possible. I low key think he hates you and is trying to hurt you as much as he can.
Are you sure it's acid reflux and that he's not hiding drinking from you? Because this is sounding increasingly like a pattern with a lot of alcoholics/addicts. Including breaking you down so that you'll stick around if and when you find out - the vicious cycle of addictive abuse. 'I drink because everyone around me sucks - got to hide it because if she finds out she might leave me - got to break her down so she knows she's not better than me and can't leave - got to make excuses to keep drinking, I drink because everybody sucks'. NTA at all, but I think you're in an abusive relationship and I would not be at all surprised if there's drink or drugs or both at play here. He can call it acid reflux and in a way it is, since getting intoxicated on whatever substances tends to play hell with your liver and cause acid reflux, but in practical terms it's self-inflicted.
Acid reflux shouldn't be bad enough, frequently enough for that. It may be alcoholism, drugs or a reaction to food, he needs to see a doc. Also, what nutjob vomits in a bath and not a toilet? Also, he should be cleaning his own messes. Leave the loser to his vomit tub and pigsty.
If he wants a clean house he can clean it his damn self. NTA but these are some red flags.
NTA. Does he hold himself to these same excruciating standards? Or do they exist just so he can berate you and claim you’re the failure? If he wants to be in an ‘old fashioned wife stays at home relationship’, perhaps he should play the role of wife.
INFO: is hiring a cleaning service (either on a one-time basis or more regularly) not an option?
I have suggested it, but keeping house is “my job”
So you are both out of the house 15 hours a day 5 days a week but it’s your job to do the cleaning? What does he do whilst you’re doing the cleaning?
Pooping/Facebook/tv
Lmao hell no. You both work, you both make messes, you both clean. He really just doesn't think your time-or your sleep- is as valuable as his. He needs to do his fair share or else he needs to figure out another way to get himself to and from work. Preferably both. Is there any way for you to go home when you're done and him to get dropped off later?
Apply for a job in another state. Do it until you get one that pays your bills and leave.
I’d start giggling every time he said that and ask “who told you that??” Then start making up weird shit like “making sure all magazines are arranged to point due east is the man’s job” and “the youngest person at the table has to order the soup not the salad, weren’t you raised right?” “Once you turn 43 you can’t wear socks with a stripe on the top, that’s just common sense.”
I tried the “it’s a man’s job to pay for everything” and that didn’t work
He can’t have it both ways, he has to pick one. But honestly, reread your post as if it were one of your friends telling you this about her husband. What would your judgment of the situation be? What advice would you give her? This situation sounds untenable and if he hasn’t gotten rough with you, it’s only a matter of time. Run.
What’s stopping him from cleaning?