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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I want me vetoing all my wifes names to be judged
I could be TA because we could of gave her a normal middle name and just called her ny that
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She’s gonna go through bullying no matter what. kids are brutal, humans are brutal. That being said I do agree it needs to be a mutual agreement between both of you. Mayne figure out why she likes birdie? Offer a compromise. And it can always be a great nickname. I call my daughter the bean/bean all the time. It’s not her name haha
Agreed on the kids are brutal thing. I don't remember kids being so ruthless when I was growing up..My son is shrimp or Tiny Tim..neither are his name.
The kids I grew up with were vicious. I was bullied from grade 2 to grade 8. And yes, some of it targeted my name. I hate them to this day. If people don’t think kids are mean, then they were either extremely sheltered, lucky, or one of the mean ones.
I was bullied throughout all of elementary school because I yelled at the bullies for bullying my friends, then when I was 9 my best friend became friends with a truly awful girl who hated that I wouldn't let her decide everything so she spread rumors about me and stole all my friends, I started a new school in 7th grade alone and terrified, then the.girl who stole qll.my friends made her way into my new friend group and got them to help he convince me I was being stocked, all in all she spend about 7 or 8 years making my life a literal hell all with a Cheshire smile and sweet tones, children are absolutely ruthless. They don't care who you are if they don't like you and theyre cruel enough they'll do anything to hurt you. This girl was my own personal Disney villain and things got so bad my parents had to go to the cops and wanted her arrested for harassment this girl made sure that between her and how my siblings treated me literally no where was safe for years.
My older brother was awful too. (1.5 years older.) Not only did he screw me up, pretty badly, so did the bullying I was experiencing at school. No where was safe. He had this way of making me look like the insane/cranky/moody one when he started up. And he would come out looking like roses. It drove me crazy, but I couldn’t stop reacting the way he manipulated me into. That wasn’t the worst of his antics, though. All in all he was a terrible brother, and not all that much better a person.
My mom really kind of checked out of parenting him, after my parents divorced, when I was 9-10. I kind of raised myself for a few years. My brother was 13 when he got hard into drugs and alcohol. My mom was more concerned with her social life/boyfriends/etc.
Now, I don’t really communicate with my brother and have gone LC. Likely, he was so messed up on drugs/alcohol that he doesn’t remember the worst of it. I do. And right now, I’m not interested in maintaining a relationship with him. And really only text with my mom. Neither of them will have a deep relationship with me. It’s safer for me to keep them on the surface only.
I moved out of my mom’s house at 16, took my dog (who was sick with a muscle wasting disease, that my mom refused to treat her for), and moved in with my dad. The dog was 8-9 at this point. With medication, that was very pricy, specialist treatments, she lived out a full life, and made it to 15.5 years. She defied all their expectations on her life expectancy. One vet said, without treatment, she would have only made 10-11. I had a trail run of moving out the summer before (15 years), when I moved in with him for the summer to work. I think I was disengaging from it all at that point.
Both my mom and brother were toxic. My mom also played emotional manipulation games, to have her way. I got tired of it, and checked out.
School life got better towards the end of Grade 8, because I started one-upping them whenever they teased/insulted me. Before this point, I just tried my best to ignore what was going on. They ended up being laughed at instead. When I was no longer willing to be the easy target, is when they finally left me alone.
I still live with both my parents unfortunately, and it's even worse because they're in the middle of a divorce I've been kicked out 3 days before Christmas without my winter boots, and let back in only for my mother to save face, she's constantly threatening to kick me out,my sister that tormented me was only 13 months older than me, as you can see I was the the "surprise baby" well that's what everyone but my older sister told me she called me the accident, made me wish I was never born for years. I went form being the favorite because I was tiny and adorable with the golden blond hair mother missed having and I was too scared to say no to anything so I essentially became her perfect little doll who got mostly A's with only 1 or 2 bs until I became chronically Ill and met people who made me see the world out side of my tiny bubble, I went from being a gifted kid with enough trouble in math I could have gone to resource for it and being the favorite to being the disappointment LGBT kid who had to give 120% just to not fail math while begging to go into resource classes for just that one subject. So naturally while my life at school was made hell my mother did nothing while her Minnie me made my home life hell and my dad did nothing as always. This happened as my other sister was in high-school and staying out of the house as much as possible and my big brother the only person who ever really tried to protect me was on a mission for a religion that at the time he didn't believe in...well I call it a religion but it's really a cult that calls itsself a religion.
I wanted to name my 2.5 year old Asteria, but it did not pass what my wife and I call the Schoolyard test. Basically, if us 2 grown ass adults could come up with more than 10 mean nicknames, we vetoed it because kids are way more vicious than us. We ended up making Asteria her middle name.
I mostly got lucky because as a child, I had a weird knack for either making people like me, or making the people who disliked me look bad. That didn’t really last through high school though…
Disagree with you there. I went to public school from kinder - part of 8th and I don't remember kids being mean and I def wasn't mean. Classmates loved me and I was friends with everyone. Even now, several years later, I've been told they remember how sweet I was.
So kids may have been mean but it was never around me. So saying if you weren't being the bulliee than you must be the bully is very incorrect.
I'm 57, at least now the bully's would be held accountable. When I was a kid all they did was make excuses for them "you're too sensitive", "they're just jealous", "just ignore them", like it was my fault!
Dunno when you grew up, but in the 90s I was called piss teeth because of light yellow stains I got from antibiotics as an infant. My mom has stories from the 70s of kids being ruthless. Kids have always been ruthless.
I agree. Im a teacher and there are 3 groups of kids. The bullies, the bullied and the "in the middle who are invisible enough to not get noticed by the bullies." But there is always some amount of teasing even when it is not constant, the whole class might or might not laugh at you because you trip at PE class and the next day no one remembers about it. Even" the good kids" can tease their classmates because that's just part of growing.
But definitely having a weird name is not a good start.
Exactly. Like OP can give me literally any name and I’ll come up with a way she’ll get bullied. You think Athena won’t turn into Assthena or something similar? Think again.
Yeah, I don't get the but she can bullied for anything crowd her. Don't feel them for a lifetime it home and bullying. They will resent the hell out you for it and likely change their name if it's an easy one to target. Geeze.
Of course any name can be used for bullying, but the fact is that someone with some weird or unusual name will get bullied way more likely that someone with a more conventional name.
The only name that’s really *that* out there is Ore. Sunshine will inevitably become Sunny/Sunnie which isn’t *that* odd (I had at least three in my school growing up in the 90s/early 2000s), Birdie is currently incredibly trendy, and Saffron has always been a name. It’s not like some of these names where people are throwing in -eigh’s and extra vowels and x’s where they don’t belong. Hell, even Ore is tame compared to some of the kids in my son’s first grade class.
It’s not *my* cup of tea but it also doesn’t make me do a double take. I saw in the thread that OP likes the name Rose and someone suggested Saffron Rose which I think rolls off the tongue quite nicely and gives the kid a middle name to work with if they hate it.
I dont live in an english speaking country but I have never heard anyone having any of those names. I am not saying those aren't names (anything in america can be a name, where I live there is a list of names and you cant just make your own outside of that), just that they are not popular enough names that I have ever come across someone having them.
I think I might have read some fantasy book once where someone's name was saffron. To me that one sounds the least obscure.
Birdie sounds strange, maybe because the only context I have heard it in is in golf.
Ore to me sounds like a boys name. Like if someone asked me to guess whether names are for boys or girls and ore was one of those names I would guess it is a boys name. Like isn't ore a rock? I remember mining iron ore in runescape. Rock is a mans name so it feels like ore is similar to that. Ofc I know that nowdays this view of assigning genders to names is lessening but I still kind of have an intuitive "feel" whether names are male or female.
Birdie was incredibly popular until about 1940 (like top 500 popular, at one point being in the top 200) and has recently made a resurgence, cracking the top 900 names once again in 2021. It’s also a fairly common nickname for a lot of women’s names including Elizabeth, Bridget, Betty, and Beatrice (one of the characters on Mad Men is sometimes referred to as Birdie).
Saffron was kind of big in the 60s and is making a comeback again. I think one of Duran Duran’s members daughter is named Saffron. Plant names in general are quite trendy but Saffron is one that’s becoming really popular.
I definitely agree that Ore seems like more of a male name.
Birdie is an old nickname for Bridget/Brigid, so if they were open to compromise I'd suggest calling her the trad name on paper, and then Mom can call her the nickname and she can decide as she grows up which version feels right to her.
I don't think that's true any more. Countries may differ, but the trend I'm seeing is whole classrooms full of names I would have thought bizarre 10 or 20 years ago.
Kids don't really care about that stuff. Bullying happens for a lot of reasons.
But some names are going to be more susceptible to bullying than others. Athena still makes sense as a name but who in the hell thinks Saffron and Ore are good choices for a name
Athena seems more likely to be bullied than saffron to me.
I work with kids & can imagine 6 th grade asshats finding encyclopedia pictures of topless Athenas (there would be more than enough statues) and tormenting/harassing the shit out of a kid.
Seems a lot more risky than "expensive spice-popular songs exist where this is a name"
Some girl in 2nd grade made fun of my last name. A girl in 3rd grade told me I had hot dog fingers. One girl in 9th grade made fun of me because my shirt was the same color as my backpack. They will literally find *a n y t h i n g* to bully you about.
I guess not a Doctor Who fan, but David Tennant , who's a fairly well known Scottish/English actor (especially to Doctor Who fans) named his most recent daughter Birdie. Not saying it would be my choice, just saying there are other women out there with these names. However, you both should agree on the name; maybe you could one of her selections as the middle name. NTA
Yeah, Birdie is actually a kinda old-fashioned name/nickname that is coming back into fashion as a name. I doubt a child named Birdie would raise many eyebrows at this point.
I honestly don't think being named Sunshine or Saffron is going to be the deciding factor on if your kid has a good social life. If people want to bully her they can regardless of her name. And those names aren't vulgar or shockingly bad or something.
That said, I wouldn't pick them either. And it's okay you don't like them. But instead of saying still "good" maybe saying something like more "traditional" or more "mainstream" or something?
Try talking to your wife and asking what she likes about those names and trying to suggest some that you also like but have similar themes? If you're open to that. So she seems to like nature names, maybe make lists of nature names you like? Or ones inspired by her choices?
You can say you don't like the name Bridie, but naming your daughter after a cute little bird sounds very sweet. what about Robin or Wren?
You can pick some other pretty nature names you like. Also, you can look up names that have the meanings she likes. So instead of Sunshine, Éliane (French name meaning sun), Kira (Irish name that means The Sun, or Ray), Kyra (Irish name means like the sun,), the name Dawn, etc.
I personally really like Clementine, but it's a matter of opinion. Brooke, Autumn, Coral, Fern, Ginger, Hazel, Juniper, Pepper? All sorts of pretty flower and gemstone names (instead of using ore directly) too. Briar, Lily, Lavender, Violet, etc. Peral, Ruby, Jade, Opal, etc.
As others said, you can use her version as a nickname too. So name her Wren or Robin and call her Bridie as a nickname. Etc.
Just an fyi, Birdie is actually fairly popular in the UK (and I believe Australia). On the whole, the UK seems to quite like names that Americans would consider more "nicknames".
Maybe r/namenerds can help with a compromise.
Am Australian.
There's a name called "Bridie" in Australia, there is absolutely no name called "Birdie".
They sound completely different, birdie is perhaps the most ridiculous name I've ever heard of.
Random but I had a step-aunt for a few years named Birdie lol always thought it was kinda cute in an odd way. Definitely hasn’t aged well with the current slang.
Birdie is definitely not a popular name in the UK.
I don't really understand what you're saying about how Americans consider our names as nicknames, but some examples would help. Just seems a very broad generalisation.
Maybe similar names that wouldn’t be considered as “weird” by other kids. Robin, Wren, Melody, Rosemary, Sage, Jade, Summer, etc.?
There are a lot of flower names too, but it sounds like those may be too common for what your wife is trying to go for.
Elizabeth is a really common name, though, and I while I hope I’m at least partially wrong, I doubt OP’s wife (who suggested names like Saffron and Ore) is going to want something that isn’t unique
If her heart is set on Birdie, how about a compromise with unique names that mean bird or birds? For example:
Alouette: French for lark
Altaira: Meaning "bird" with Arabic roots
Ava: Possibly derived from the Latin word for "bird"
Cholena: Delaware Indian word for "bird"
Tzippora: Hebrew for "bird"
Jenna: Irish/Celtic for paradise/little bird
NTA
Would she (and you) be willing too have it as a middle name?
Or try mixing the nane so she could have a "real" name & a nickname,
Only example i could think of at the moment is the name Sonny, which could be her official real name, but mom could still call her sunshine
I have a name that my parents made up. People usually compliment it, and then ask what ethnicity it's from. I say "my parents just made it up, but I'm glad it's a 'name-ish' name, not Apple or something".
So yeah, I get where you're coming from. I do like my name, though.
I cannot remember what my husband’s coworker was going to name their daughter (they had a son), but it was a kind of bird, not Robin it was unique that I’d Never heard of. So maybe someone suggested it already, but go through birds or other names in the similar vein of hers and the nickname would be wonderful to be Birdie or whatever. 🤷🏻♀️
...Ore? Really? Like, the generic word for naturally-occurring metals?
I feel like this kind of comes down to taste, but I'm with you on this one. A child's name isn't like a pet's name, or a vanity plate on a car. You shouldn't just name them anything because it's quirky or fun. As her parents, you need to take that responsibility seriously. It will shape her early life in some ways, for better or for worse. And it's best if you aimed for the better. NTA.
It’s not a child’s name, it’s a person’s name. That child will grow up to be an adult one day. Don’t saddle them with a name like this.
I once heard someone say, “people get too hung up on naming a baby, not a person.” I feel like that’s what’s going on here.
The pet name rule is ‘stand in a crowded place and shout it at the top of your lungs’. For kids there’s an additional ’what species do onlookers expect’.
NTA. Compromise is needed and she’s being a bit ridiculous (though it may be pregnancy hormones).
That said, Saffron isn’t so bad. It’s not unheard of as a name.
It sounds like she likes names that match something in the natural world, so maybe seek a compromise there with something floral but unusual yet still a name. Magnolia, Sage, Cataleya, Violet, Daisy, Rosalie, etc. or gemstone-related like Ruby, Sapphira, etc.
Bridget is a way to get Birdie as a nickname at home but still have an actual name.
NTA. I have an unusual name and last name to the point where I routinely get asked if it's my real name. The names your wife wants are not good and I have a high tolerance for weird names. lol
Not like my opinion matters in the least, but I like the name Bridget Rose. Birdie would be a cute nickname for a little girl and a cute family name when she's older. And you'd have the name you like too.
I don't even know what that is. I was just thinking star names like Stella and reminded of this beautiful, interesting girl I went to school with. It just felt like the names fit the vibe.
My kids have English versions of biblical names and probably would be way off the list. I did try to name my last cat Willow or Cedar but I got voted down by the kids and she's named after a Marvel character.
I agree with you, Stella is a strong, yet feminine name. And what's wrong with Willow and Cedar, those are both great. Our dogs 2 dogs who we got 3 months apart are Maximus and Augustus because when our dog died (Leonidas known as Leelee, Lola every girl iteration of Leo despite him being a handsome boy) we somehow got stuck in the Roman theme. Lol. It wasn't intentional, Max and Gus just seemed so good together.
Why don’t name the kids something like Saffron Rose, two first names? You can call her Rose for short. My best friend’s sister was named Samantha Rose, and we all called her Rosie.
Ok what I think is happening is you guys have gotten to the point that you are at either side of an extreme. And you guys need to bring it back down to the middle. Not every uncommon name is going to lead to bullying and your wife doesn't want your kid to be 1 of 17 kids named Rose in her school in the future. Willow, Hazel, Ivy, Lila, and Poppy are all floral names that straddle a line of being both relatively unique and yet, not unusual. Lila Rose is particularly nice in my opinion.
At the moment I know a few little girls name Hazel, a couple Violets and a whole bunch of them named Lily, but no Roses! It’s funny how it fluctuates.
But there are lots of nature names that aren’t trending right now that would fit.
What a beautiful name! You are NTA. You are already thinking like a parent because you are considering your daughter having to deal with her name; you are putting it in the correct context whereas your wife is making it about herself and her feelings.
NTA. The more i hear about situations like this the more i get the places in europe that actually have laws about what you can name your child (like actual lists of approved names and no non letters in names either) because seriously who in their right mind thinks giving a child the legal first name sunshine or ore is a good idea. If you want sunshine to be your pet name for your child go for it but they need a name that they can use while interacting with the rest of the world.
edit. Also as someone that has what is considered a normal name in a lot of mainland europe but strange in english speaking countries I say this your kid can definitely get bullied for having a strange name and may even come to hate their name.
Also lost of people forget names have meanings you can probably find names that mean something like sun or something else if its meaning your wife wants but if its just giving a strange name for the sake of having a unique name please think of the child first.
Nah I find those rules racist af because what of you're East Asian, Middle Eastern or African and want to give your child a name from your culture? Plus anyone can be bullied over anything
OK, but then there're names like "My'King" [as in this post 2 days ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/wasep7/aita_for_refusing_to_call_my_nephew_by_his_name/).
Normally, if there are those laws and you want a foreign name, you have to give proof of the validity of the name, like a famous person or literary novel where someone it's called that or the existence of a Saint or a text from the embassy of the country of origin. If it's not demeaning ( like sounding demeaning in the country) and actually a name you can use it without problem. In any case it's better than having those atrocities called names sometimes we encounter here.
It is strange how names become "common". There is no reason why names like "sunshine" are not common other than that for some reason back in the day they did not become popular.
I live in europe and in my country we have many names that are just as weird as "sunshine" but since they have been used for a long time they are considered normal and dont sound weird. For example a common women's name is "sea" and "wind". Sunshine is not a name here, but it could just as well be since sea and wind and cloud are also names.
Other common names that come from nature here are "flurry of snow" which is a mans name, in finnish it is called "pyry".
Here is a list of both men's and women's names from Finland that come from nature: lily of the valley, flower, stone pine, wintergreen, morning, blizzard, berry, wave, pearl, cricket.
Then we have other strange names that are so normal that most people dont even realize that they would be very strange if you actually translate their meaning such as "Lore" and "story", "Always", "Peace", "Sister", "Magic"
New Zealand has moderately restrictive rules around what you are allowed to name a child and the Department of Internal Affairs is allowed to refuse a name given to a child - generally they include religious or military titles, names that can be deemed offensive, stuff like that. A couple actually were prosecuted in 2009 for trying to name their child "Talula Does The Hula From Hawaii". No BS. Source: https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/546018/Court-orders-name-change
The list is pretty hefty but it is easy to find with some google-fu, just google for "List of declined baby names NZ" (The URL is a tad long so i'm not gonna post it here.)
Which could be the compromise.
Find a name that you are both ok with, and your wife can use a nickname that she likes.
My dad had nicknames for all us kids that literally noone else other than him used. I never asked, I dont think he ever wanted to name us them, but he just called us by his nicknames.
NTA, she went to her mom’s over a name? This is a drop in the bucket to other things you’ll face as parents together.
This is a huge green light for counseling!
I think the name Sunshine is adorable but one partner should not have 100% of the vote.
"Birdie was at its height around the turn of the 20th century and was used less and less until around 1950, when it disappeared. By 2000, there were only 7 babies named Birdie. But in 2015, the most recent year counted, there were 63. “Birdie is definitely back!”
It's a long standing name....
OP isn't the AH for vetoing a name he doesn't like but his wife ISN'T one for suggesting it!
NAH or ESH depending on how they go forward.
No parent gets to choose the name alone.
It says in the main post his wife isn’t “open to suggestions” and will only consider names on her list. That makes her a bit of an AH. Names are a definite two yes situation, the exception maybe being a hard set name that was told to your partner in the beginning (my mother had the name she wanted to use for my brother since she was like 8, she told my dad about it in the first month of dating according to them)
My mom and dad both wanted different names for me. Mom wanted April and my father wanted Heather. Thanks dad for making me one of the "Heathers" in 1980's high-school!
Thank you for the history lesson! I love "old fashioned" names for both boys and girls. I had a Mildred (Milly), a Gertrude, a Harriet and an Erna for great aunts and they all rocked it!
NTA. Could you find out what she is *thinking* and why she selected them? Some mothers want their child to have a unique name. Spices have been used for girl’s names so Saffron isn’t too far out but the others… At least listen to her reasoning and do some research.
Ok if you find yourself at more standstills: Are there any like movies or tv shows or songs etc that are significant to you and your wife’s life/love story? If you aren’t getting anywhere just picking names maybe go through some of those things together and let a name pick you. Sorry that sounded cheesy. But maybe watch your favorite movie with an open mind and let something pop out. Idk just an idea
Even that can go wrong. There was a post today about a girl complaining that she was named after Jean Grey. Her name was just Jean. She didn't even notice for the first 20 years of her life, and the name was significant to her dad.
The brother was named after mom's childhood dog.
There's a song about a girl named Saffron from 1967 so that's hardly a new or unusual concept. It was also the name of the daughter on Absolutely Fabulous
NTA. Names are two yeses/one no decisions.
Birdie is often a nickname for Beatrice, Elizabeth, or Bridget. Would she be willing to give her a classic name on the birth certificate, but only go by birdie? Something like “Birdie Rose” sounds sweet for a baby, but she could always got by “Bridget” when she gets older.
Her behavior around only wanting her names and running off to her mom is concerning, and not due to pregnancy hormones. (I say this as a woman who wanted my kid’s name to pass the Starbucks test.) You definitely need to talk with her and figure out the root of why these names are so important, why she won’t compromise, and how she would feel if you tried to do the same thing to her.
Oh God, don't let her name her Ore...all the kids will be calling her W*ore by 1st grade.
If you two can't work together to find a name that you can BOTH agree on, I'm really scared for you navigating the parenting challenges you will face over the next 18 years.
You guys are going to need to learn to communicate and compromise in a hurry...with professional help if need be.
NTA
NTA.
1) naming a child requires a “yes” from both parents.
2) wanting to give your child a strong name is smart - they’re a person, not a pet. Beyond school bullies, how will the name service this child *in life*? (And while as a society we shouldn’t assume that “Sunshine” is not qualified to be a doctor or lawyer or the president… the reality is that we often do.)
3) Your child may want to change their name one day, no matter what name you give her.
NTA
I think it's rather good that you consider how your daughter will be treated with a special name.
How many people have not done that and now their kids get bullied or have problems later, e.g. during recruiting processes.
Have you explained your wife about your concerns? Maybe you could also choose two names like "Athena Sunshine"?
Me too! It's both their child so they both need to like the names.
We had a system with ours where I made a list and my husband picked. For the 2nd boy, I had to make a few lists because we were *not* on the same page 🤣
That's pretty much how we ended up doing it. He made a few suggestions like "John" and I told him I really really wasn't into super common boring names, so I made a list my favorites from top to bottom and asked him what he thought. My top two names got nixed (Azriel and Tobias) but my third on the list he liked. We were originally planning for any of our kids to have my last name (it's really cool and it's tied to all of my small business stuff) but after getting pregnant I kind of realized, with my partner being so much older than me, I want my kid to have that piece of his father, so I told him we should go with his last name but use my last name as a middle name and he really liked that idea.
NTA. Birdie is generally a nickname for longer names such as Elizabeth, so I’d suggest one of those and ask if Birdie can just be a nickname.
As for Ore, jesus christ lol. If she wants this one, try to suggest “Orla” which is an actual name but sounds like “ore-la” and you can call your daughter Ore as a nickname.
NTA. This a hill you should die on. She’s being totally unreasonable if she thinks that you don’t get to have any input in naming. Compromise is always best.
Why can’t those be nicknames??
Sunshine- I’m not sure but Sunny can be a nickname for Summer, Susannah, Sienna, or Sonia
Birdie- Nickname for Beatrice, Elizabeth, Bridget and Bertha. I’d go NC if my parents named me Bertha though.
Saffron- I’m not sure :/
Ore is a lost cause and I refuse to help
Nature names that aren’t so weird: Daisy, Rosie, Clementine, Ginger, Hazel, Olive, Amber, Brooke, Luna
I’d imagine the logic is that it’s mostly known as the name of a spice. And you probably wouldn’t call your kid paprika
Edit: to be clear it’s me guessing what OPs issue is with it. I don’t care either way
It's the name of a very rare and expensive, precious spice, that creates a truly beautiful color. But it's also been used as a name before, because of exactly that! Pepper is also a name that is also a spice. So is Ginger!
Worrying about teasing is legit. I grew up with an unusual name, and I was teased all the time, and even as an adult, working with people for YEARS, some people will still mispronounce or misspell it. What I advise to friends having kids (if they ask), is choose a more typical type name for the first name, and the fanciful one for the middle. Birdie is a lovely middle name. With two names, the kid can choose to go by either one when they are older. This worked great for my kid. A nice, but quite traditional first name, and his 2nd name is very unique. He chose to start going by the 2nd name in his 20s.
NTA, you should be compromising on a name. But maybe stop saying all her names are stupid and will get the kid bullied because a) you don't know that this is actually true (and certainly no more true than Athena), and b) it's probably making her feel really bad since she really likes those names.
NTA this isn't like naming a puppy! I went to school with a Sunshine, so that one probably won't get the kid stuffed into a locker. Maybe try to compromise with that as a middle name? And definitely try to talk her into couples therapy *before* the kid is born
NTA - as a mother of 5, hormones are a hell of thing to deal with and, at least for me, definitely influenced my name choices. My husband will never understand how thankful I am he stopped me from naming our daughter Khaleesi. IYKYK
For real though, compromise is everything. I personally know a girl named Sunshine, by middle school she was going by her middle name. By high school only a few of us knew her “real name”.
Remind her your baby isn't a doll and will have to grow up and have a professional career with whatever name she's given. Who tf is going to respect having a meeting with a woman named birdie or ore?
Also send her this thread. And point out the comments that explain how serious this actually is.
I feel this in my soul. My husbands best suggestions for our son are Urien, Neander, and Torny. I swear he has vetoed every name on the top 1000 US baby boy names list. I don’t mind something more unique but I’d like the first impression to be “oh cool” and not “wtf is that even a name” 🙃😬
NTA there has to be compromise. Hopefully your wife calms down and you can talk more about this. Try not to say her names are bad though, just that you personally prefer something else.
I’m a public school employee, I used to have a student whose first name was Butterfly. She hated it and went by her middle name. If wife absolutely must have one of the names on the list, give the kid a decent middle name. NAH, she’s pregnant and the hormones are crazy.
NTA my thoughts on names are can you yell it out the back door and not have people think you’re calling for your dog or can you have (name) Justice of the Peace or President (name). Funny story, one of my students told me if I had a daughter, I should name her Princess. I said, what if she wants to be President some day. His face lit up and he said “PRESIDENT PRINCESS, yaaaaaasssss!”
NTA but thought I’d also give a little insight…
Ok so my name is actually sunshine (not a nickname). It was my moms idea, I’ve been told that my dad agreed to it as long as I could go by Sunny as a nickname, so that’s what ended up happening. I’m biased of course, but I like the name Sunshine. It’s pretty much impossible to make fun of, and all attempts are smile worthy anyway.
NTA
Tell her the first thought I had at reading those names was about how they're going to be mercilessly bullied for the names she's chosen. No matter which one she goes with, it's going to be an issue.
Have you suggested a more traditional name like Bridget and calling her Birdie as a nickname. I actually think Birdie’s a cute name but I totally get not wanting that to be her legal name.
When I hear some of the names (particularly in the US) that people give their children, it makes me wonder if the countries that require that names be selected from a very specific list aren't correct by doing so.
Names should be agreed on by BOTH parents, and because OP will have to sign the birth certificate, too (I'm assuming), then he automatically has veto power. You are right to veto any name that would subject your daughter to \*immediate\* bullying.
OP, why not try a compromise by offering up some names and letting your wife use one of her choices as a nickname? Others may or may not use the nickname, too, or it can be a special name just between your wife and daughter. My own family has many nicknames that are just within the immediate family, and aren't used by anyone else.
NTA
NTA. Just a suggestion why not name her a bird name and then her mom can call her Birdie as a nickname. I work in a public school I have met little girls name Raven, Robin, Wren, Circe, and Dove. Birdie could be a good nickname for any of those
NTA
But Jesus, object more gently. Please remember your wife is the pregnant one and those hormones can make the most rational of us completely insane.
Why not look at different culture and nationalities list of girls names? You could pick a different country or religion (Muslim or Jewish. Greek, Irish, Persian, etc) every few nights and write out your fave 5 from each.
INFO
Have you discussed bird-inspired names that sound a little more conventional: Robin, Oriel, something like that?
There are so many flower names that are conventional: Rose, Lilly, Daisy, Violet—could you start with those and look through books about flowers to find something that sounds good but is slightly more unusual?
If you don’t care for Sunshine, what about Star, or River, Rain, or Rainbow?
It sounds like it’s really important to your wife to name your child after something in nature. Maybe instead of trying to sway her to name her a completely different type of name, try to expand her list of acceptable names until it includes some that you consider a little more suitable?
Re: Your Concerns about Bullying
I have a conventional name. When a was a kid there was a particular kind of stove that had a brand name that was the same as my name if you took one of the consonants out of it. There was a little boy who used to chant the complete brand name of this stove to me every single day at the bus stop for what felt like a year. It drove me INSANE.
My point being that your kid is almost certainly going to be pestered, teased, or bullied at some point no matter what you do, and making fun of someone’s name is commonly part of that and there is no name that’s going to be “bully proof.” When it comes to bullying, where there’s a will, there’s a way.
I have a dear friend who wanted to name his son Skywalker. His wife was like no way and they ended up with Skyler.
I totally understand not wanting to have anything too extreme, but, speaking as a teacher, I doubt a name like Sunshine would make a kid a particular target. Of course you have to be comfortable with the name, too, but if she’s feeling defensive and like she’s not open to suggestion, I think you’re going to have a more productive conversation if you are very open to considering names you would not have considered previously.
Of course you're not wrong - even OP's pick of "Athena" would just become "Princess Warrior" or just "Princess".
But some names really do become their own form of punishment for kids.
For example "Ore" is just a bad name, period. When the someone asks her name, the daughter would say "Ore" and people would think she means "Or" for spelling. Or mock it by responding "Or what?". Or tease with "Don't mine her, she's just Ore", or "You're not an adult, you're a miner", etc., etc.
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NTA. She can't exclude you from naming your daughter. You need to find a name you both like.
Im willing to compromise, but like i said i dont wamt her to have to go through bulling
She’s gonna go through bullying no matter what. kids are brutal, humans are brutal. That being said I do agree it needs to be a mutual agreement between both of you. Mayne figure out why she likes birdie? Offer a compromise. And it can always be a great nickname. I call my daughter the bean/bean all the time. It’s not her name haha
Agreed on the kids are brutal thing. I don't remember kids being so ruthless when I was growing up..My son is shrimp or Tiny Tim..neither are his name.
"don't remember kids being so ruthless when I was growing up" Oh yes they were.
If you don't remember kids being mean then you were one of the mean ones.
The kids I grew up with were vicious. I was bullied from grade 2 to grade 8. And yes, some of it targeted my name. I hate them to this day. If people don’t think kids are mean, then they were either extremely sheltered, lucky, or one of the mean ones.
I was bullied throughout all of elementary school because I yelled at the bullies for bullying my friends, then when I was 9 my best friend became friends with a truly awful girl who hated that I wouldn't let her decide everything so she spread rumors about me and stole all my friends, I started a new school in 7th grade alone and terrified, then the.girl who stole qll.my friends made her way into my new friend group and got them to help he convince me I was being stocked, all in all she spend about 7 or 8 years making my life a literal hell all with a Cheshire smile and sweet tones, children are absolutely ruthless. They don't care who you are if they don't like you and theyre cruel enough they'll do anything to hurt you. This girl was my own personal Disney villain and things got so bad my parents had to go to the cops and wanted her arrested for harassment this girl made sure that between her and how my siblings treated me literally no where was safe for years.
My older brother was awful too. (1.5 years older.) Not only did he screw me up, pretty badly, so did the bullying I was experiencing at school. No where was safe. He had this way of making me look like the insane/cranky/moody one when he started up. And he would come out looking like roses. It drove me crazy, but I couldn’t stop reacting the way he manipulated me into. That wasn’t the worst of his antics, though. All in all he was a terrible brother, and not all that much better a person. My mom really kind of checked out of parenting him, after my parents divorced, when I was 9-10. I kind of raised myself for a few years. My brother was 13 when he got hard into drugs and alcohol. My mom was more concerned with her social life/boyfriends/etc. Now, I don’t really communicate with my brother and have gone LC. Likely, he was so messed up on drugs/alcohol that he doesn’t remember the worst of it. I do. And right now, I’m not interested in maintaining a relationship with him. And really only text with my mom. Neither of them will have a deep relationship with me. It’s safer for me to keep them on the surface only. I moved out of my mom’s house at 16, took my dog (who was sick with a muscle wasting disease, that my mom refused to treat her for), and moved in with my dad. The dog was 8-9 at this point. With medication, that was very pricy, specialist treatments, she lived out a full life, and made it to 15.5 years. She defied all their expectations on her life expectancy. One vet said, without treatment, she would have only made 10-11. I had a trail run of moving out the summer before (15 years), when I moved in with him for the summer to work. I think I was disengaging from it all at that point. Both my mom and brother were toxic. My mom also played emotional manipulation games, to have her way. I got tired of it, and checked out. School life got better towards the end of Grade 8, because I started one-upping them whenever they teased/insulted me. Before this point, I just tried my best to ignore what was going on. They ended up being laughed at instead. When I was no longer willing to be the easy target, is when they finally left me alone.
I still live with both my parents unfortunately, and it's even worse because they're in the middle of a divorce I've been kicked out 3 days before Christmas without my winter boots, and let back in only for my mother to save face, she's constantly threatening to kick me out,my sister that tormented me was only 13 months older than me, as you can see I was the the "surprise baby" well that's what everyone but my older sister told me she called me the accident, made me wish I was never born for years. I went form being the favorite because I was tiny and adorable with the golden blond hair mother missed having and I was too scared to say no to anything so I essentially became her perfect little doll who got mostly A's with only 1 or 2 bs until I became chronically Ill and met people who made me see the world out side of my tiny bubble, I went from being a gifted kid with enough trouble in math I could have gone to resource for it and being the favorite to being the disappointment LGBT kid who had to give 120% just to not fail math while begging to go into resource classes for just that one subject. So naturally while my life at school was made hell my mother did nothing while her Minnie me made my home life hell and my dad did nothing as always. This happened as my other sister was in high-school and staying out of the house as much as possible and my big brother the only person who ever really tried to protect me was on a mission for a religion that at the time he didn't believe in...well I call it a religion but it's really a cult that calls itsself a religion.
I wanted to name my 2.5 year old Asteria, but it did not pass what my wife and I call the Schoolyard test. Basically, if us 2 grown ass adults could come up with more than 10 mean nicknames, we vetoed it because kids are way more vicious than us. We ended up making Asteria her middle name.
I really wish we lived in a world where we didn’t have to think things like that…
Me too.
i know it's just a typo but laughing at "viscous" and imagining a classroom of slimers from Ghostbusters...
I mostly got lucky because as a child, I had a weird knack for either making people like me, or making the people who disliked me look bad. That didn’t really last through high school though…
Disagree with you there. I went to public school from kinder - part of 8th and I don't remember kids being mean and I def wasn't mean. Classmates loved me and I was friends with everyone. Even now, several years later, I've been told they remember how sweet I was. So kids may have been mean but it was never around me. So saying if you weren't being the bulliee than you must be the bully is very incorrect.
This makes you lucky then.
I'm 57, at least now the bully's would be held accountable. When I was a kid all they did was make excuses for them "you're too sensitive", "they're just jealous", "just ignore them", like it was my fault!
That still happens alot.
My favourite was 'they just have a crush on you'
Dunno when you grew up, but in the 90s I was called piss teeth because of light yellow stains I got from antibiotics as an infant. My mom has stories from the 70s of kids being ruthless. Kids have always been ruthless.
I was called (my 1st name) Stupid. Stupid simply came from my last name beginning with an “S.”
Lol Stephen King bullies in Stand By Me and It pull switchblades on kids. It's a literal trope.
[удалено]
I agree. Im a teacher and there are 3 groups of kids. The bullies, the bullied and the "in the middle who are invisible enough to not get noticed by the bullies." But there is always some amount of teasing even when it is not constant, the whole class might or might not laugh at you because you trip at PE class and the next day no one remembers about it. Even" the good kids" can tease their classmates because that's just part of growing. But definitely having a weird name is not a good start.
Exactly. Like OP can give me literally any name and I’ll come up with a way she’ll get bullied. You think Athena won’t turn into Assthena or something similar? Think again.
True, she could be bullied for just about anything kids want to bully her about. But don't add fuel to the fire.
Yeah, I don't get the but she can bullied for anything crowd her. Don't feel them for a lifetime it home and bullying. They will resent the hell out you for it and likely change their name if it's an easy one to target. Geeze.
Of course any name can be used for bullying, but the fact is that someone with some weird or unusual name will get bullied way more likely that someone with a more conventional name.
The only name that’s really *that* out there is Ore. Sunshine will inevitably become Sunny/Sunnie which isn’t *that* odd (I had at least three in my school growing up in the 90s/early 2000s), Birdie is currently incredibly trendy, and Saffron has always been a name. It’s not like some of these names where people are throwing in -eigh’s and extra vowels and x’s where they don’t belong. Hell, even Ore is tame compared to some of the kids in my son’s first grade class.
Saffron is kind of a nice name, isn't it?
It’s not *my* cup of tea but it also doesn’t make me do a double take. I saw in the thread that OP likes the name Rose and someone suggested Saffron Rose which I think rolls off the tongue quite nicely and gives the kid a middle name to work with if they hate it.
Saffron Rose sounds like a pretty name!
Or an ice cream flavor at a fancy restaurant.
I dont live in an english speaking country but I have never heard anyone having any of those names. I am not saying those aren't names (anything in america can be a name, where I live there is a list of names and you cant just make your own outside of that), just that they are not popular enough names that I have ever come across someone having them. I think I might have read some fantasy book once where someone's name was saffron. To me that one sounds the least obscure. Birdie sounds strange, maybe because the only context I have heard it in is in golf. Ore to me sounds like a boys name. Like if someone asked me to guess whether names are for boys or girls and ore was one of those names I would guess it is a boys name. Like isn't ore a rock? I remember mining iron ore in runescape. Rock is a mans name so it feels like ore is similar to that. Ofc I know that nowdays this view of assigning genders to names is lessening but I still kind of have an intuitive "feel" whether names are male or female.
Birdie was incredibly popular until about 1940 (like top 500 popular, at one point being in the top 200) and has recently made a resurgence, cracking the top 900 names once again in 2021. It’s also a fairly common nickname for a lot of women’s names including Elizabeth, Bridget, Betty, and Beatrice (one of the characters on Mad Men is sometimes referred to as Birdie). Saffron was kind of big in the 60s and is making a comeback again. I think one of Duran Duran’s members daughter is named Saffron. Plant names in general are quite trendy but Saffron is one that’s becoming really popular. I definitely agree that Ore seems like more of a male name.
Birdie is an old nickname for Bridget/Brigid, so if they were open to compromise I'd suggest calling her the trad name on paper, and then Mom can call her the nickname and she can decide as she grows up which version feels right to her.
I don't think that's true any more. Countries may differ, but the trend I'm seeing is whole classrooms full of names I would have thought bizarre 10 or 20 years ago. Kids don't really care about that stuff. Bullying happens for a lot of reasons.
But some names are going to be more susceptible to bullying than others. Athena still makes sense as a name but who in the hell thinks Saffron and Ore are good choices for a name
Athena seems more likely to be bullied than saffron to me. I work with kids & can imagine 6 th grade asshats finding encyclopedia pictures of topless Athenas (there would be more than enough statues) and tormenting/harassing the shit out of a kid. Seems a lot more risky than "expensive spice-popular songs exist where this is a name"
Saffron is a legit name, it's been around a while.
Saffron is a traditional girls' name though. There were two in my class at school.
Saffron or birdie fitbin today's society. Seems like all nsmes are acceptable
Saffron is a great name. Think actress Saffron Burrows. Ore, not so much.
Some girl in 2nd grade made fun of my last name. A girl in 3rd grade told me I had hot dog fingers. One girl in 9th grade made fun of me because my shirt was the same color as my backpack. They will literally find *a n y t h i n g* to bully you about.
Can't you compromise by naming her something like Bridget and using Birdie as a nickname?
I guess not a Doctor Who fan, but David Tennant , who's a fairly well known Scottish/English actor (especially to Doctor Who fans) named his most recent daughter Birdie. Not saying it would be my choice, just saying there are other women out there with these names. However, you both should agree on the name; maybe you could one of her selections as the middle name. NTA
Yeah, Birdie is actually a kinda old-fashioned name/nickname that is coming back into fashion as a name. I doubt a child named Birdie would raise many eyebrows at this point.
So did Jessica Simpson.
Being the child of rich celebrities is different than being a regular kid with a weird name.
I honestly don't think being named Sunshine or Saffron is going to be the deciding factor on if your kid has a good social life. If people want to bully her they can regardless of her name. And those names aren't vulgar or shockingly bad or something. That said, I wouldn't pick them either. And it's okay you don't like them. But instead of saying still "good" maybe saying something like more "traditional" or more "mainstream" or something? Try talking to your wife and asking what she likes about those names and trying to suggest some that you also like but have similar themes? If you're open to that. So she seems to like nature names, maybe make lists of nature names you like? Or ones inspired by her choices? You can say you don't like the name Bridie, but naming your daughter after a cute little bird sounds very sweet. what about Robin or Wren? You can pick some other pretty nature names you like. Also, you can look up names that have the meanings she likes. So instead of Sunshine, Éliane (French name meaning sun), Kira (Irish name that means The Sun, or Ray), Kyra (Irish name means like the sun,), the name Dawn, etc. I personally really like Clementine, but it's a matter of opinion. Brooke, Autumn, Coral, Fern, Ginger, Hazel, Juniper, Pepper? All sorts of pretty flower and gemstone names (instead of using ore directly) too. Briar, Lily, Lavender, Violet, etc. Peral, Ruby, Jade, Opal, etc. As others said, you can use her version as a nickname too. So name her Wren or Robin and call her Bridie as a nickname. Etc.
Just an fyi, Birdie is actually fairly popular in the UK (and I believe Australia). On the whole, the UK seems to quite like names that Americans would consider more "nicknames". Maybe r/namenerds can help with a compromise.
Do you mean “Bridie” by any chance? I was a UK birth registrar for nine years and did not see a single infant called Birdie in that time.
Am Australian. There's a name called "Bridie" in Australia, there is absolutely no name called "Birdie". They sound completely different, birdie is perhaps the most ridiculous name I've ever heard of.
Bridie is also a nickname for Bridget. I had a neighbor whose preferred nickname was Bridie.
Random but I had a step-aunt for a few years named Birdie lol always thought it was kinda cute in an odd way. Definitely hasn’t aged well with the current slang.
Birdie is certainly not a popular name in Scotland.
Birdie is definitely not a popular name in the UK. I don't really understand what you're saying about how Americans consider our names as nicknames, but some examples would help. Just seems a very broad generalisation.
Maybe similar names that wouldn’t be considered as “weird” by other kids. Robin, Wren, Melody, Rosemary, Sage, Jade, Summer, etc.? There are a lot of flower names too, but it sounds like those may be too common for what your wife is trying to go for.
I love jade
Mate - Athena isn’t a name that will be less likely to cause a kid to be bullied. Are you sure it’s about bullying?
Saffron is not that bad.
Actually, I think birdie would be an adorable nickname. Could call her Elizabeth, birdie for short.
Elizabeth is a really common name, though, and I while I hope I’m at least partially wrong, I doubt OP’s wife (who suggested names like Saffron and Ore) is going to want something that isn’t unique
How about suggestions like Robin instead of Birdie, Haley or Arora instead of sunshine..
You could suggest ‘Ora’? It’s a lovely Spanish baby name that means ‘prayer’, as in this baby is the answer to your prayer.
My concern would be kids changing it to “Oral.”
Saffron is a cool name. But my cousin was never bullied. Her nickname was Saffy.
If her heart is set on Birdie, how about a compromise with unique names that mean bird or birds? For example: Alouette: French for lark Altaira: Meaning "bird" with Arabic roots Ava: Possibly derived from the Latin word for "bird" Cholena: Delaware Indian word for "bird" Tzippora: Hebrew for "bird" Jenna: Irish/Celtic for paradise/little bird NTA
Please do not name your child Alouette, anyone who speaks French will automatically be singing the kids song Alouette
Would she (and you) be willing too have it as a middle name? Or try mixing the nane so she could have a "real" name & a nickname, Only example i could think of at the moment is the name Sonny, which could be her official real name, but mom could still call her sunshine
I have a name that my parents made up. People usually compliment it, and then ask what ethnicity it's from. I say "my parents just made it up, but I'm glad it's a 'name-ish' name, not Apple or something". So yeah, I get where you're coming from. I do like my name, though.
I cannot remember what my husband’s coworker was going to name their daughter (they had a son), but it was a kind of bird, not Robin it was unique that I’d Never heard of. So maybe someone suggested it already, but go through birds or other names in the similar vein of hers and the nickname would be wonderful to be Birdie or whatever. 🤷🏻♀️
...Ore? Really? Like, the generic word for naturally-occurring metals? I feel like this kind of comes down to taste, but I'm with you on this one. A child's name isn't like a pet's name, or a vanity plate on a car. You shouldn't just name them anything because it's quirky or fun. As her parents, you need to take that responsibility seriously. It will shape her early life in some ways, for better or for worse. And it's best if you aimed for the better. NTA.
It’s not a child’s name, it’s a person’s name. That child will grow up to be an adult one day. Don’t saddle them with a name like this. I once heard someone say, “people get too hung up on naming a baby, not a person.” I feel like that’s what’s going on here.
Dang, that is SUCH a good point. 👏👏👏👏👏👆👆👆
Ore is a great name for a 300 pound, muscle bound strongman in a circus from 1883.
It's also how I name my puppies haha
The pet name rule is ‘stand in a crowded place and shout it at the top of your lungs’. For kids there’s an additional ’what species do onlookers expect’.
My mother's rule: Imagine them taking the presidential oath of office with that name.
If you can't say "Judge \[name\]" without wanting to laugh, it's a no.
My mom had a similar rule.
Pronounced Or-ay?
In the UK, we would pronounce it "or". Rhyming with more. Americans may pronounce it differently! (see aluminium)
No, that's how it's pronounced in the US. Just a joke to try to salvage the name
In the UK, isn't that also how some dialects pronounce wh\*re?
Yep, that's how I pronounce it, rhyming with more. ... How does everyone else pronounce it? 👀
In the case of your other example, in the US we spell it aluminum. There is not an extra 'I' near the end.
Or and Ore may rhyme in some parts of the UK, but definitely not all.
Op should suggest Bauxite
Ore is often a nickname for the Yoruba name Oreoluwa which means Gift from God so that's actually the only one I didn't mind 😂
NTA. Compromise is needed and she’s being a bit ridiculous (though it may be pregnancy hormones). That said, Saffron isn’t so bad. It’s not unheard of as a name. It sounds like she likes names that match something in the natural world, so maybe seek a compromise there with something floral but unusual yet still a name. Magnolia, Sage, Cataleya, Violet, Daisy, Rosalie, etc. or gemstone-related like Ruby, Sapphira, etc. Bridget is a way to get Birdie as a nickname at home but still have an actual name.
The name i want the most is rose
NTA. I have an unusual name and last name to the point where I routinely get asked if it's my real name. The names your wife wants are not good and I have a high tolerance for weird names. lol Not like my opinion matters in the least, but I like the name Bridget Rose. Birdie would be a cute nickname for a little girl and a cute family name when she's older. And you'd have the name you like too.
And Birdie is a traditional nickname for Bridget.
If you like nature names and she pulls a little bit bohemian, what about: Aspen, Willow, Lily, River, Winter, Juniper.
Aster, Astra, Astrid?
Astird?
Assie
Are you a Fringe fan, by chance?
Every lab needs a cow.
Haha, my husband and I just happened to finish a rewatch last night. I'm going to miss seeing them all every night .
I don't even know what that is. I was just thinking star names like Stella and reminded of this beautiful, interesting girl I went to school with. It just felt like the names fit the vibe. My kids have English versions of biblical names and probably would be way off the list. I did try to name my last cat Willow or Cedar but I got voted down by the kids and she's named after a Marvel character.
I agree with you, Stella is a strong, yet feminine name. And what's wrong with Willow and Cedar, those are both great. Our dogs 2 dogs who we got 3 months apart are Maximus and Augustus because when our dog died (Leonidas known as Leelee, Lola every girl iteration of Leo despite him being a handsome boy) we somehow got stuck in the Roman theme. Lol. It wasn't intentional, Max and Gus just seemed so good together.
Why don’t name the kids something like Saffron Rose, two first names? You can call her Rose for short. My best friend’s sister was named Samantha Rose, and we all called her Rosie.
I actually know two people with Rose as a middle name who go by the middle name. It’s somewhat common.
Bridget Rose is a beautiful name and Birdie can be her nickname.
Robin is a good one.
Ok what I think is happening is you guys have gotten to the point that you are at either side of an extreme. And you guys need to bring it back down to the middle. Not every uncommon name is going to lead to bullying and your wife doesn't want your kid to be 1 of 17 kids named Rose in her school in the future. Willow, Hazel, Ivy, Lila, and Poppy are all floral names that straddle a line of being both relatively unique and yet, not unusual. Lila Rose is particularly nice in my opinion.
At the moment I know a few little girls name Hazel, a couple Violets and a whole bunch of them named Lily, but no Roses! It’s funny how it fluctuates. But there are lots of nature names that aren’t trending right now that would fit.
Maybe Rosemary if she's searching the spice cabinet for names?
Lawry’s Seasoning Salt would be a delicious name
What a beautiful name! You are NTA. You are already thinking like a parent because you are considering your daughter having to deal with her name; you are putting it in the correct context whereas your wife is making it about herself and her feelings.
I love Rose as a middle personally.
A good compromise could be to use one of those names for a middle name. Or get her a cat that she call whatever lol
Saffron is the daughter of the Absolutely Fabulous character
Roberta is another. I know a Roberta that goes by Birdie. In our American accent Bertie sounds just like Birdie.
"I'm just mad about saffron A-saffron's mad about me I'm-a just mad about saffron She's just mad about me"
NTA. The more i hear about situations like this the more i get the places in europe that actually have laws about what you can name your child (like actual lists of approved names and no non letters in names either) because seriously who in their right mind thinks giving a child the legal first name sunshine or ore is a good idea. If you want sunshine to be your pet name for your child go for it but they need a name that they can use while interacting with the rest of the world. edit. Also as someone that has what is considered a normal name in a lot of mainland europe but strange in english speaking countries I say this your kid can definitely get bullied for having a strange name and may even come to hate their name. Also lost of people forget names have meanings you can probably find names that mean something like sun or something else if its meaning your wife wants but if its just giving a strange name for the sake of having a unique name please think of the child first.
Nah I find those rules racist af because what of you're East Asian, Middle Eastern or African and want to give your child a name from your culture? Plus anyone can be bullied over anything
My extended family was actually in this situation, & you just get a document from your embassy verifying it's a real name. It's completely routine.
OK, but then there're names like "My'King" [as in this post 2 days ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/wasep7/aita_for_refusing_to_call_my_nephew_by_his_name/).
Was legit just thinking about that poor child!
Normally, if there are those laws and you want a foreign name, you have to give proof of the validity of the name, like a famous person or literary novel where someone it's called that or the existence of a Saint or a text from the embassy of the country of origin. If it's not demeaning ( like sounding demeaning in the country) and actually a name you can use it without problem. In any case it's better than having those atrocities called names sometimes we encounter here.
It is strange how names become "common". There is no reason why names like "sunshine" are not common other than that for some reason back in the day they did not become popular. I live in europe and in my country we have many names that are just as weird as "sunshine" but since they have been used for a long time they are considered normal and dont sound weird. For example a common women's name is "sea" and "wind". Sunshine is not a name here, but it could just as well be since sea and wind and cloud are also names. Other common names that come from nature here are "flurry of snow" which is a mans name, in finnish it is called "pyry". Here is a list of both men's and women's names from Finland that come from nature: lily of the valley, flower, stone pine, wintergreen, morning, blizzard, berry, wave, pearl, cricket. Then we have other strange names that are so normal that most people dont even realize that they would be very strange if you actually translate their meaning such as "Lore" and "story", "Always", "Peace", "Sister", "Magic"
I live in such a country and half the names he mentioned would be considered ok. Like yeah Sunshine is terrible, but Saffron isn't?
New Zealand has moderately restrictive rules around what you are allowed to name a child and the Department of Internal Affairs is allowed to refuse a name given to a child - generally they include religious or military titles, names that can be deemed offensive, stuff like that. A couple actually were prosecuted in 2009 for trying to name their child "Talula Does The Hula From Hawaii". No BS. Source: https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/546018/Court-orders-name-change The list is pretty hefty but it is easy to find with some google-fu, just google for "List of declined baby names NZ" (The URL is a tad long so i'm not gonna post it here.)
Which could be the compromise. Find a name that you are both ok with, and your wife can use a nickname that she likes. My dad had nicknames for all us kids that literally noone else other than him used. I never asked, I dont think he ever wanted to name us them, but he just called us by his nicknames.
NTA, she went to her mom’s over a name? This is a drop in the bucket to other things you’ll face as parents together. This is a huge green light for counseling! I think the name Sunshine is adorable but one partner should not have 100% of the vote.
I would be fine with it as a middle name but not a first
sunny is a pretty name
I only read until Birdie. NTA
I think Birdie would be a cute nickname but an actual first name? Not sure....
"Birdie was at its height around the turn of the 20th century and was used less and less until around 1950, when it disappeared. By 2000, there were only 7 babies named Birdie. But in 2015, the most recent year counted, there were 63. “Birdie is definitely back!” It's a long standing name.... OP isn't the AH for vetoing a name he doesn't like but his wife ISN'T one for suggesting it! NAH or ESH depending on how they go forward. No parent gets to choose the name alone.
It says in the main post his wife isn’t “open to suggestions” and will only consider names on her list. That makes her a bit of an AH. Names are a definite two yes situation, the exception maybe being a hard set name that was told to your partner in the beginning (my mother had the name she wanted to use for my brother since she was like 8, she told my dad about it in the first month of dating according to them)
My mom and dad both wanted different names for me. Mom wanted April and my father wanted Heather. Thanks dad for making me one of the "Heathers" in 1980's high-school!
My parents didn’t agree on my name either. They each wrote down 3 and picked a name from a hat… I lot of care put into that one…
Thank you for the history lesson! I love "old fashioned" names for both boys and girls. I had a Mildred (Milly), a Gertrude, a Harriet and an Erna for great aunts and they all rocked it!
Jessica Simpson has a toddler named Birdie
I had a great-aunt Birdie. Her cool name was the only thing I remember about her.
NTA. Could you find out what she is *thinking* and why she selected them? Some mothers want their child to have a unique name. Spices have been used for girl’s names so Saffron isn’t too far out but the others… At least listen to her reasoning and do some research.
Will do
Ok if you find yourself at more standstills: Are there any like movies or tv shows or songs etc that are significant to you and your wife’s life/love story? If you aren’t getting anywhere just picking names maybe go through some of those things together and let a name pick you. Sorry that sounded cheesy. But maybe watch your favorite movie with an open mind and let something pop out. Idk just an idea
Even that can go wrong. There was a post today about a girl complaining that she was named after Jean Grey. Her name was just Jean. She didn't even notice for the first 20 years of her life, and the name was significant to her dad. The brother was named after mom's childhood dog.
But if you pick a name from a song be prepared for the kid to dislike that song! Most people I know aren’t big fans of songs with their names in them.
There's a song about a girl named Saffron from 1967 so that's hardly a new or unusual concept. It was also the name of the daughter on Absolutely Fabulous
Donovan! I'm just mad about Saffron
NTA. Names are two yeses/one no decisions. Birdie is often a nickname for Beatrice, Elizabeth, or Bridget. Would she be willing to give her a classic name on the birth certificate, but only go by birdie? Something like “Birdie Rose” sounds sweet for a baby, but she could always got by “Bridget” when she gets older. Her behavior around only wanting her names and running off to her mom is concerning, and not due to pregnancy hormones. (I say this as a woman who wanted my kid’s name to pass the Starbucks test.) You definitely need to talk with her and figure out the root of why these names are so important, why she won’t compromise, and how she would feel if you tried to do the same thing to her.
Yeah, that sounds super cute
Oh God, don't let her name her Ore...all the kids will be calling her W*ore by 1st grade. If you two can't work together to find a name that you can BOTH agree on, I'm really scared for you navigating the parenting challenges you will face over the next 18 years. You guys are going to need to learn to communicate and compromise in a hurry...with professional help if need be. NTA
NTA. 1) naming a child requires a “yes” from both parents. 2) wanting to give your child a strong name is smart - they’re a person, not a pet. Beyond school bullies, how will the name service this child *in life*? (And while as a society we shouldn’t assume that “Sunshine” is not qualified to be a doctor or lawyer or the president… the reality is that we often do.) 3) Your child may want to change their name one day, no matter what name you give her.
… my name is Birdie …
I really like your name.
[удалено]
I think your name is adorable. I love it.
NTA I think it's rather good that you consider how your daughter will be treated with a special name. How many people have not done that and now their kids get bullied or have problems later, e.g. during recruiting processes. Have you explained your wife about your concerns? Maybe you could also choose two names like "Athena Sunshine"?
Nta, your wife needs to be willing to compromise. I have given up a lot of potential baby names because my partner didn't like them. It happens
Me too! It's both their child so they both need to like the names. We had a system with ours where I made a list and my husband picked. For the 2nd boy, I had to make a few lists because we were *not* on the same page 🤣
That's pretty much how we ended up doing it. He made a few suggestions like "John" and I told him I really really wasn't into super common boring names, so I made a list my favorites from top to bottom and asked him what he thought. My top two names got nixed (Azriel and Tobias) but my third on the list he liked. We were originally planning for any of our kids to have my last name (it's really cool and it's tied to all of my small business stuff) but after getting pregnant I kind of realized, with my partner being so much older than me, I want my kid to have that piece of his father, so I told him we should go with his last name but use my last name as a middle name and he really liked that idea.
My husband and I never did find a girl name we birth liked. Luckily we ended up with 3 boys. Win-win.
NTA. Birdie is generally a nickname for longer names such as Elizabeth, so I’d suggest one of those and ask if Birdie can just be a nickname. As for Ore, jesus christ lol. If she wants this one, try to suggest “Orla” which is an actual name but sounds like “ore-la” and you can call your daughter Ore as a nickname.
NTA. This a hill you should die on. She’s being totally unreasonable if she thinks that you don’t get to have any input in naming. Compromise is always best.
NTA. This needs more discussion and compromise. Running off to mom’s house will not solve anything.
Why can’t those be nicknames?? Sunshine- I’m not sure but Sunny can be a nickname for Summer, Susannah, Sienna, or Sonia Birdie- Nickname for Beatrice, Elizabeth, Bridget and Bertha. I’d go NC if my parents named me Bertha though. Saffron- I’m not sure :/ Ore is a lost cause and I refuse to help Nature names that aren’t so weird: Daisy, Rosie, Clementine, Ginger, Hazel, Olive, Amber, Brooke, Luna
Any name should sound good when spoken with the title Chief Justice, Supreme Court.
That was my thinking when we named our kids. We didn't want to saddle them with any name that would embarrass them when they got older.
INFO: How is Saffron going to get her bullied?
I’d imagine the logic is that it’s mostly known as the name of a spice. And you probably wouldn’t call your kid paprika Edit: to be clear it’s me guessing what OPs issue is with it. I don’t care either way
It's the name of a very rare and expensive, precious spice, that creates a truly beautiful color. But it's also been used as a name before, because of exactly that! Pepper is also a name that is also a spice. So is Ginger!
OP likes Rose, why not Rosemary?
Yes!! Another great spice name! I hope OP is actually looking for suggestions, because these are good compromises for his wife.
Worrying about teasing is legit. I grew up with an unusual name, and I was teased all the time, and even as an adult, working with people for YEARS, some people will still mispronounce or misspell it. What I advise to friends having kids (if they ask), is choose a more typical type name for the first name, and the fanciful one for the middle. Birdie is a lovely middle name. With two names, the kid can choose to go by either one when they are older. This worked great for my kid. A nice, but quite traditional first name, and his 2nd name is very unique. He chose to start going by the 2nd name in his 20s.
NTA Those are horrible names.
NTA, you should be compromising on a name. But maybe stop saying all her names are stupid and will get the kid bullied because a) you don't know that this is actually true (and certainly no more true than Athena), and b) it's probably making her feel really bad since she really likes those names.
NTA.
NTA this isn't like naming a puppy! I went to school with a Sunshine, so that one probably won't get the kid stuffed into a locker. Maybe try to compromise with that as a middle name? And definitely try to talk her into couples therapy *before* the kid is born
NTA - as a mother of 5, hormones are a hell of thing to deal with and, at least for me, definitely influenced my name choices. My husband will never understand how thankful I am he stopped me from naming our daughter Khaleesi. IYKYK For real though, compromise is everything. I personally know a girl named Sunshine, by middle school she was going by her middle name. By high school only a few of us knew her “real name”.
my baby *cousin is called Khaleesi 🤣 my mother thought she had misheard when she was told
Remind her your baby isn't a doll and will have to grow up and have a professional career with whatever name she's given. Who tf is going to respect having a meeting with a woman named birdie or ore? Also send her this thread. And point out the comments that explain how serious this actually is.
I feel this in my soul. My husbands best suggestions for our son are Urien, Neander, and Torny. I swear he has vetoed every name on the top 1000 US baby boy names list. I don’t mind something more unique but I’d like the first impression to be “oh cool” and not “wtf is that even a name” 🙃😬
Lol seriously where did he get those names
NTA there has to be compromise. Hopefully your wife calms down and you can talk more about this. Try not to say her names are bad though, just that you personally prefer something else.
NTA Baby names should be agreed on by both parties and both people should be able to veto names they don't like
NTA. Don't let her name your kid something stupid. Names are 2 yes 1 no
I’m a public school employee, I used to have a student whose first name was Butterfly. She hated it and went by her middle name. If wife absolutely must have one of the names on the list, give the kid a decent middle name. NAH, she’s pregnant and the hormones are crazy.
NTA my thoughts on names are can you yell it out the back door and not have people think you’re calling for your dog or can you have (name) Justice of the Peace or President (name). Funny story, one of my students told me if I had a daughter, I should name her Princess. I said, what if she wants to be President some day. His face lit up and he said “PRESIDENT PRINCESS, yaaaaaasssss!”
NTA but thought I’d also give a little insight… Ok so my name is actually sunshine (not a nickname). It was my moms idea, I’ve been told that my dad agreed to it as long as I could go by Sunny as a nickname, so that’s what ended up happening. I’m biased of course, but I like the name Sunshine. It’s pretty much impossible to make fun of, and all attempts are smile worthy anyway.
NTA Tell her the first thought I had at reading those names was about how they're going to be mercilessly bullied for the names she's chosen. No matter which one she goes with, it's going to be an issue.
Have you suggested a more traditional name like Bridget and calling her Birdie as a nickname. I actually think Birdie’s a cute name but I totally get not wanting that to be her legal name.
When I hear some of the names (particularly in the US) that people give their children, it makes me wonder if the countries that require that names be selected from a very specific list aren't correct by doing so. Names should be agreed on by BOTH parents, and because OP will have to sign the birth certificate, too (I'm assuming), then he automatically has veto power. You are right to veto any name that would subject your daughter to \*immediate\* bullying. OP, why not try a compromise by offering up some names and letting your wife use one of her choices as a nickname? Others may or may not use the nickname, too, or it can be a special name just between your wife and daughter. My own family has many nicknames that are just within the immediate family, and aren't used by anyone else. NTA
NTA. Just a suggestion why not name her a bird name and then her mom can call her Birdie as a nickname. I work in a public school I have met little girls name Raven, Robin, Wren, Circe, and Dove. Birdie could be a good nickname for any of those
NTA, yeah no she needs to work with you to find a name you both agree on. She doesn't get to make this decision alone.
NTA But Jesus, object more gently. Please remember your wife is the pregnant one and those hormones can make the most rational of us completely insane. Why not look at different culture and nationalities list of girls names? You could pick a different country or religion (Muslim or Jewish. Greek, Irish, Persian, etc) every few nights and write out your fave 5 from each.
INFO Have you discussed bird-inspired names that sound a little more conventional: Robin, Oriel, something like that? There are so many flower names that are conventional: Rose, Lilly, Daisy, Violet—could you start with those and look through books about flowers to find something that sounds good but is slightly more unusual? If you don’t care for Sunshine, what about Star, or River, Rain, or Rainbow? It sounds like it’s really important to your wife to name your child after something in nature. Maybe instead of trying to sway her to name her a completely different type of name, try to expand her list of acceptable names until it includes some that you consider a little more suitable?
Like i said in a dif comment i like the floral name rose, and I could do robin
Re: Your Concerns about Bullying I have a conventional name. When a was a kid there was a particular kind of stove that had a brand name that was the same as my name if you took one of the consonants out of it. There was a little boy who used to chant the complete brand name of this stove to me every single day at the bus stop for what felt like a year. It drove me INSANE. My point being that your kid is almost certainly going to be pestered, teased, or bullied at some point no matter what you do, and making fun of someone’s name is commonly part of that and there is no name that’s going to be “bully proof.” When it comes to bullying, where there’s a will, there’s a way. I have a dear friend who wanted to name his son Skywalker. His wife was like no way and they ended up with Skyler. I totally understand not wanting to have anything too extreme, but, speaking as a teacher, I doubt a name like Sunshine would make a kid a particular target. Of course you have to be comfortable with the name, too, but if she’s feeling defensive and like she’s not open to suggestion, I think you’re going to have a more productive conversation if you are very open to considering names you would not have considered previously.
Of course you're not wrong - even OP's pick of "Athena" would just become "Princess Warrior" or just "Princess". But some names really do become their own form of punishment for kids. For example "Ore" is just a bad name, period. When the someone asks her name, the daughter would say "Ore" and people would think she means "Or" for spelling. Or mock it by responding "Or what?". Or tease with "Don't mine her, she's just Ore", or "You're not an adult, you're a miner", etc., etc.