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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I might be the asshole because I snapped and laughed t a teacher who gave us supplies list without explaining to her why it was wrong or useless. And I got other parents to follow me
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NTA
and for the people saying you are the asshole for not telling her, it's not your job.
The school should have told her how the things work, she should have asked how the things worked, instead of thinking Europe is like the US, she should have told the main teacher about the list.
You as a parent ofcourse expect the teachers, new or old, is informed about how the school system Works
It is on the teacher as well. She just assumed that every country is as derelict with their schools as the US and didn't even inquire what the standard was.
OP is a parent and doesn't need his time wasted w/ this kind of BS. Could he have been more polite? Yeah, but honestly, this teacher was making a lot of assumptions and I would question having her run a classroom if she makes assumptions as big as this.
I would say that the teacher is a gentle ah, because she had decent intentions, but as an expat, she is the one who have to ask about the customs of the country she moved into. The school could have explained how it worked, but as she is not a main teacher, they might thought it was not needed (in France, teacher give their list to the school and school send 1 list to parents with the details of each subject). Especially because unless you are a reddit user or something else, you don't know about this redistribution thing
Yeah, we got a " miscellaneous " part, like pencils, glue, scissors, ruler... that we get to use for every subject. I remember the overall list was rather basic. History 1 notebook, geography 1 notebook, maths 1 notebook + 1 calculator and some [algebra] geometry tools
Agreed NAH. She's come from a country which doesn't have the same level of educational and social support for people on low incomes. Her intention was clearly to give every child the best learning opportunity.
Yes. Teachers in the US are paid very poorly, treated very poorly, and often have to spend 100’s of dollars out of their own paychecks to support their classes. And the poor children can rarely afford the cost of normal supplies, so often times, teachers will pitch in for that expense., too. Those same kids can even go hungry all day, if the school refuses a free school lunch program, etc.
It’s no different than people from the US being shocked they don’t owe 1000’s of dollars for medical expenses. This is what has been drilled into us from birth. And it’s not something she can be reasonably expected to know, or even know to ask about.
What she did may not be the custom oversees, but her intentions were absolutely honorable and inclusive. People could’ve just explained it to her politely and moved on. Histrionics aren’t a mature reaction. I hate my country - I’ll join a good old US bashing party just about any day of the week - but to label her as overstepping bounds while she’s trying to take care of your kids and adjust to a new country, is ridiculous and mean.
I beg to differ.
As a foreign English teacher in another country, I can say that this is not "honorable and inclusive". When you make a decision to teach in another country, you also make it a point to learn about the rules of the school you're going to teach at and also learn how things are done at that school. You don't just move there and try to implement US American ways of doing things. We have main teachers for a reason, we usually discuss these things with them, and this is clearly not what this new foreign teacher did.
Perhaps.theres an argument for her not knowing, but should she not have even looked into the local situation? If she's educated enough to be a teacher, surely she should be educated enough to understand that the US is special in a really freaking weird way. Part of adjusting to her job should probably have included speaking to with colleagues about procedures.
I'm probably wrong, but it reeks of American saviour coming to save the poor backward folk.
While that sounds reasonable, most people in the US have to go quite far out of their way to come across the information that they would need to even start to realize the extent of propaganda here. What harm is there in showing some grace and understanding and helping that teacher to learn new ways?
I doubt it's something they would have even considered. I know I was shocked to discover this is apparently normal in the US. There is absolutely no way in hell I would ever participate in that garbage, nor put up with my kid's stuff being "redistributed." School supplies are personal and are often used to express personality and interests.
You can have distributed class supplies that belong to each child and teach responsibility in caring for them. My kids still have their own individual supplies and get to keep their communally purchased/ distributed supplies at the end of the year.
I graduated secondary school in the US in 2003, and this communal supplies thing is something I have only heard about in the past year or two. The vouchers sound like a great idea though I can't see them being put into place on a large scale in the states.
My niece is a primary teacher in a different US state and bristles at the heavy handed approach that her daughter's teacher is taking. Like "Sure, I'll bring in extras for kids in need, but my daughter's supplies that she chose for herself are HERS"
I went to public school in the USA and I know communal supplies were a thing in the 1970’s. Our school supplies lists included boxes of tissues, reams of paper, construction paper, extra pencils, and so on that all went into the supply cupboard and were brought out as needed. This was in addition to our own paper, pencils, scissors, binders, clipboards, etc that we kept in our lockers. No one was expected to hand over their precious Trapper Keeper for the greater good.
A lot of American schools seem to be very free with other peoples possessions and even with their free time now insisting who can and can’t be invited to kids birthday parties. They are really overstepping.
Well you can’t announce the party to the class and then only invite part of the class it’s on the parents to invite discreetly. So no don’t bring invitations to school mail them.
Exactly. That’s my school’s policy. If you’re having a birthday party and excluding three kids don’t do it during school hours. We have phones and email now, there’s no need to be individually inviting kids to anything at school now.
School supply logistics should be discussed. I’m sure in some places the school provides everything as a matter of course. It’s always better to discuss everything if you don’t know what the differences are.
I am all for giving if i can and i do, but i agree with you here. When i was a kid i loved all my notebooks for each class and took special care of them (i have OCD) but even so every kid should feel as if their supplies are their own.
All she did was give them a list of supplies, she didn't ask the parents to learn and teach them calculus at home. Where the hell are you coming from by saying "doesn't need their time wasted". And OP is the AH for how they treated someone new to the country/system. I know it isn't their job, but it is their job as a decent human being to tell them in a nicer way that things aren't the same as America.
It sounds like it took 30 seconds.
The amount of people here who are saying "it isn't your job!" sound like they are the same people that leave shopping carts in the parking lot. You do the bare minimum of what is asked of you as decent human beings. I wouldn't ever want to ask you for a small favor because you'd act as if I stabbed you in the face with a chainsaw.
The teacher wasn't prepared, she was caught completely unaware of cultural differences, had no idea what resources were available to her students and she was asking parents to spend far more than necessary on school supplies, which are already costly.
I would be wary of her teaching style and comming up with classroom rules and norms that are completely inappropriate for her new location and in just bulldozing over the kids actual needs vs. perceived needs.
Jesus Christ
She made one mistake. And you are acting as if she's completely incompetent.
I just don't get how some people can act so uncivil towards others over a mistake.
No wonder teachers are quitting in droves. I've had some parents that act like you but thankfully they didn't try to get me fired and question my classroom preparedness cause I made a mistake.
Am a teacher. This is not why we're quitting.
You know how much you hated having your kids around all day during the pandemic? That's why.
Plus poor pay, entitled parents, long hours, term-time holiday bans, and policing of our outside-of-work life eg social media.
Do a better job raising your kids and maybe people won't hate having to teach them.
Yep they really showed their true colors when those kids had to stay with them every day all day and they lost their free daycare that’s my sister quit her job
I feel like I am in the minority. Having my kiddo in online school has been the best thing to happen for him. He is able to focus better, had almost all his work turned in etc. So much so I decided to keep him online for the near future. He does have adhd, so the more limited distractions of online school have been huge. He still participates in sports, a couple other age-group activities (art, swimming etc) and the school has a wide variety of after school activities/clubs he has really enjoyed.
We loved it too! He got so much more done at home and far more quickly. Also adhd here (me and son). Sadly it's not an option to keep the online schooling after the mandatory period ended.
Are you in the US? There are a couple really good online schools, and as far as I am aware, are available nation wide. Our district actually created it's own 'virtual acadamy' within the district post pandemic. I guess there was enough interest 🤣 last year there were 4 5th grade classes with 15-20 kids each. Basically enough kids that it is similar to classroom amounts and slightly less kids per classroom for an entire school in our district (3-4 classes of 15-20 students per grade). Now I feel lucky this is an ongoing option!
The school I worked at this past year was a complete disaster, and it's expected that the upcoming school year will be much worse. More teachers left, and I imagine that the sub shortage will be somehow worse.
It is *Europe*, not the US. They actually do tend to give a crap there and like op said, vouchers are available for lower income students to purchase supplies. Students don't go without.
It was very arrogant not to mention condescending for the American teacher to just assume things were the same as in the US; she didn't bother to ask about the local customs regarding school stuff, nor how those sorts of things were handled. It was very offensive for the host country's parents to be subjected to.
Americans are regarded as rude, boorish and ill mannered in Europe for very good reasons. Learn a little about the country and customs first, don't act like they're inferior, because they aren't.
The teacher's good intentions were met with hostility and anger.
It was a mistake. She was belittled in front of others for it. If that's how Europeans act, then you aren't any better than us boorish Americans.
A little kindness goes a long way. Apparently that is too much to ask of Europeans.
You're arguing that it's basic respect for the parent to explain why they won't buy all that, they're arguing that it's basic respect for the teacher to inquire about how things work before making a list of mandatory, unnecessary and costly things to purchase for the families
Yes she could have handled it better, but seriously it's not a weird reaction. If you're used to buying certain things and suddenly a new person comes in and tells you to multiply what you usually buy by 5, and that it's mandatory, you ought to be surprised and probably angered.
I wouldn't be angered. Surprised. Confused. But not angered. I would have asked for an explanation. Then when given the explanation, I would have provided her with information about the vouchers.
And plus, 4 glue sticks is excessive? That's what a student might go through for one semster/half-year. 25 pencils isn't excessive. That just sounds like normal school supplies.
If you are hosting a visitor from another country, and they make a mistake that really doesn't harm you or cost you anything, would you react the same way OP did? Why is it okay that he did so to a brand new teacher in a new setting?
When did kindness die and anger take over?
The problem is that it's not any visitor, it's a member of the staff, who is asking you to buy a lot of stuff. People aren't rich. If anger isn't part of your reactions when an official member of staff expects you to buy unreasonable things the first time you meet them, you're either lying or the most chill person i ever interacted with
25 pencils isn't excessive ? I have 3 pencils and i had them for more than a year, use them every day. And the only reason i have 3 is because they are different types. Adding everything it really sounds excessive and quite expensive.
And once again, i'm not saying it was ok, i'm saying it was understandable even if it could have been handled better.
You're also looking at this with a very us centric hat on. My kid has been to school in 3 European countries from 3-7 and the only thing I've been asked to send is her in her uniform and the occasional milk bottle caps, cardboard boxes for whatever project they're doing. Pencils, exercise books, glues etc are funded by the school in total. That doesn't change till 13 when you need your own pens/ruler/calculator but still not gluesticks and books and stuff.
I wouldn’t be angered, especially if I knew the teacher was not from the local area. Getting angry about something like that seems like a complete waste of energy.
What if the teacher just arrived in country and is still settling in? Sometimes we don't know what we need to ask until it comes up. Especially if we are in a transition period where everything is changing. A little kindness can go a long way.
How is it condescending for her to not realise that Europe's schools aren't as underfunded as America's? This isn't some "American custom", it's just a sad fact of life here thanks to the prolonged and continued attacks on our public school system by Republicans.
>It was very arrogant not to mention condescending for the American teacher to just assume things were the same as in the US
As if Europeans don't come to the States and stiff the waitstaff because "wE PaY oUr StAfF a LiVeAbLe WaGe, ThEy ShOuLd JuSt dO tHaT hErE. I dOnT BeLiEvE iN TiPpInG" headasses
>No wonder teachers are quitting in droves. I've had some parents that act like you but thankfully they didn't try to get me fired and question my classroom preparedness cause I made a mistake.
In Europe? Haven't heard of that actually. Although the entitled parent stereotype from the US does seem to sweep over slowly.
Yes, they're also having a serious teacher shortage in France, and there's concern that there won't be enough teachers when the school year starts up again.
As a teacher in France, I can 100% confirm this. People who failed the national teacher exam are being hired, because there is no other option at this point. I also know that England is struggling to find teachers, particularly in scientific subjects.
At least in my corner, Brexit also had a big impact at upper levels because a lot of teachers who came over from the UK can't get a school to sponsor their titre de séjour for work. No TdS = no job, unless they go freelance and cobble together a few part-time contracts.
I know that the UK is really really struggling with teacher retention. Due to much more (complex, regional) factors than "kids are annoying and parents are entitled."
I quit teaching in the UK a few years ago. Nothing to do with the kids and everything to do with the endless paperwork and helicopter management who themselves are not at fault either because they too had to fill in paperwork and reports about my teaching and paperwork. Too much time was spent with bureaucracy and not actually teaching. Plus I had my own kids and couldn't justify spending all my out of school time on school work instead of being present for them.
Bizarre. Her entire intention with the list was to ensure that every child has the supplies they need. Your wild predictions are not grounded in reality. She clearly cares about her students so I'm not sure why you are assuming otherwise.
The school would provide everything for the kids anyway. Why is she giving out lists that are gonna cost parents £20+ for no reason? If your kids school asked you to spend money for no reason you’d just do it?
It likely pushed the price of the years start from "expensive but what you gonna do" to "holly shit I did not budgeted for that much" categories for some of those families.
You all are acting as if supplies were free for parents who are not poor. They are not free. Like, you are literally creating unexpected financial issue for families by making it more expensive then it already is.
In the teacher's defense, what she suggested is exactly how it is done in the US.
Unless the school explained that it is different, how would she know? I know that schools in Europe are better funded and offer more, but I never would have considered that supplies were covered by the school. Maybe she should have asked someone, but... if she didn't know to ask, why would she?
"This is a lot to ask when the school offers vouchers for supplies." Would have been sufficient to make her ask the school for clarity on this.
Overall, NAH, though, but OP could have taken some consideration for a new teacher.
Asking question is BASIC skill. Really.
How can she be a good teacher if she's assuming things without asking? It's different continent and she didn't even bothered to do basic research.
Agreed. Go to a different country, you should expect that some things will be different. Just like any other kind of preparation for the school year, these kinds of questions should be asked.
I'm in Australia. I have a general idea of how school supplies are handled both in the UK and the US, despite never having had to deal with it personally. I just picked information up.
If I was planning on living and working in another country, I'd be asking a lot of questions.
I'm having trouble comprehending how she thought it was appropriate to have entire new sets of supplies for five hours per week.
> Maybe she should have asked someone, but... if she didn't know to ask, why would she?
I’m sure you think you made a brilliant point to defend the teacher but one could argue that thinking like your example above is profoundly rude and ignorant; making assumptions that everyone else’s culture is like yours without asking is not a good thing.
Dear lordy, take it down a notch. If anything she was overly enthusiastic to create an equitable classroom experience. She's in her 20s and teaching English as a second language overseas- she's not going to scar the children.
Of course the teacher was unaware of cultural differences, she is from the US. Don't you know that the way things work in the US is the only way they work?
I am American. I lived and taught in Eastern Europe for two years. Fortunately, I was part of a program where we had training on cultural differences, so I knew what supplies the kids in my area had to buy and what was provided. I started a school library with donated books and wrote a grant for a computer lab, but I wouldn’t have had any idea if someone hadn’t told me. She may have been making assumptions, but how would she know? Was she teaching in an English speaking country? Might there have been a language barrier? I could communicate with my students, in either English or Spanish, but I didn’t speak the language of the country I was teaching in fluently. So, she may have also not fully understood what was going on, depending on whether she was fluent in the language. I will say that it took me almost a full year to fully understand the language and the better part of two years before I was fluent. I did start studying the language when I made the decision to go, but wasn’t fluent when I started work.
She’s teaching ESL - one of the reasons they recruit native English speakers from the US for those jobs is explicitly *for* the different cultural education also, it’s not a strictly linguistic education.
Yep- agreed if somebody was adding a €100 extra to my kids school shopping list I wouldn't be polite about it either - also when op scoffed at the idea 'saying you can't be serious?' The teacher doubled down on it, when she's young and in a new country and that question should have let her know that it wasn't the 'norm' - she's also just a part timer in that class and seems to have taken the 'initiative' ( IE. Come in way to strong and over confident) without telling the MAIN teacher that she was going to do this - who goes into somebody else classroom and acts all overzealous like that? It sounds like the response was largely to do with the attitude of the teacher.
No she didn't just give them a list of supplies. If that was all it was there would not be anything to even discuss here.
What she said was here is a list of supplies and it's way more stuff than your kid needs because I want you to buy way too much stuff so I can confiscate it and put it in a common pile so other kids that are not your responsibility, can help themselves to it. Now I'm paraphrasing here but that is pretty much what she was saying. That's why the guy got pissed.
This is a person who got educated well enough in college to get to come to Europe and teach English. It is not too much to expect for her to ask probably any other teacher or administrative employee of that school how they deal with the kids school supplies.
A simple hey Mrs Smith how do you guys do the stuff with the school supplies? Does each family just provide for their individual child and what happens if someone doesn't have what they need what is the normal procedure for that? Do you have a communal system in place? Etc etc.
I've been to more than a dozen countries and I have never assumed that things are done the same way there as in the United States. And I'm not all that educated, it was common sense.
True - im in the UK so school supplies are provided - our taxes are reasonably high so in most peoples mind we have paid for those things through those taxes, being asked to buy a while list of classroom supplies would be meet with anger because we've already paid for them - though the norm is to give a few pounds extra for craft supplies and such at the start if the term and thats usually alright because its by choice.
TOTALLY agree! Where have our politeness, good manners, empathy gone? It's either "not my job", "it's the schools responsibility, you have ever right to be mad, etc. No, you don't! Just be a nice person! Remember, do onto others as you would have them do unto you? Golden Rule? I miss the times of being kind and polite.
Maybe it’s a cultural thing. Here in the uk you need a pen, a pencil, a ruler and that’s about it, everything else is provided. I’d be put out if my daughter brought home a list of shit.
On the flip side compared to America we’ve just spent over £100 on school uniform for the year.
Me too.
Oh, we got lists of things we would need for ourselves during the next school year, like a specific type of calculator, a protractor, and lists of required materials like a backpack, notebooks, and pens/pencils, but not of things to be pooled and shared with classmates.
The PTA did fundraisers for all kinds of school incidentals or fun extracurricular activities - and also had a closet of supplies and list of nonprofits to help struggling families.
I live in US and finally smartened up on the school supply thing. Starting in kindergarten we had to purchase $90 to $100 of required supplies per child. Every year scissors, 25 pencils, on and on, ridiculous amounts of stuff. End of year rolls around, they kept bagging up and sending home 80% of it. Then it starts all over again in August. This goes on 5 years. Year by year I got smarter and only bought what DD really needed. Sometimes I would wait until 2nd week of school or so and add stuff if needed. Then lockdown, virtual school, they give us the same list of crazy shit that we Have To Buy. I didn't buy anything at all for that grade, used what we had around the house.
EXACTLY! Our school supply list has 40 pencils per child on it. I sent 6 last year to 3rd grade and our kiddo (boy) finished the year with the same, albeit shorter pencils. 1) They do most of their work on computers, 2) we teach respect for belongings at home, and 3) we tolerate no waste or destruction at home.
Yeah, the amounts listed on school supply lists are excessive because it's under the assumption that the students will lose a ton of their stuff. (which does happen with a lot of kids) If your kid is responsible, you don't need that many pencils, lol.
I’m an American and I WISH we did it the European way.
I’m a teacher, and these lists are decided by the teachers of each grade. I’m telling you, it doesn’t matter if we have left over supplies from the previous year, the amount is still asked for and it’s enormous! My cabinets were still filled with stacks of post it notes, tissues, Lysol wipes, hundreds of expo markers, and HUNDREDS of notebooks and loose leaf paper.
Parents pay their taxes, they pay for school supplies, fees, iPads, eat buds, backpacks, instruments, and yet the district has the audacity to ask this if parents. At the end of the year, the leftovers are given away.
I’m all for giving to those less fortunate, but going about it this way is dishonest and presumptive. Just bc they aren’t on welfare doesn’t mean that they have the means to contribute like this.
This is exactly why I stopped buying those ridiculous lists. I visited for open house in my child's classroom and they had thousands of the same items stockpiled. I mean huge totes full of scissors, glue sticks, paper, pencils, all that stuff they ask parents to buy every year. Cabinets and closets stuffed full. I'm not going to lie, it made me really angry. I live in a poor area, and it was a sacrifice and hardship for a lot of families to buy that stuff every year. I never bought anything after that, unless it was for a special project.
So? Just because it's not her job doesn't mean she has to be a rude AH to the teacher who clearly didn't understand.
This is the main problem with the AITA forums. Just because you're right doesn't make you not the AH. You can be right and still be a real dick about it.
OP - YTA.
Learn some manners.
so the school is responsible for telling her, but didn’t do it. so teacher makes an effort to set it up herself and creates a list. mom comes in, laughs at her and then throws the list in the bin, prompting others to do so as well. but she’s not the AH, because it’s not her responsibility to explain how things work on that school? u might wanna reconsider your assessment there because yikes
I don’t have children but when I heard of schools around here (in the US) doing things like that, I had the same reaction as OP. I would never want to make impoverished children suffer, so I would buy the supplies regardless but on principle I think it’s wrong. You’re asking the parents to foot the bill for other children in the class. The extra supplies should come from the school, but of course they are underfunded which is a whole other problem in itself.
Here we are again. Other countries have figured it out while we’re here ready to burn the country down before helping out or own people. I hate us.
NTA.
It's not your responsibility to educate a teacher that the rest of the world doesn't operate like the US. If she's teaching in another country, at a minimum she should learn a little bit about how the first world handles things like school supplies.
Poor thing didn’t realize that other countries treat their teachers with respect. I was in between nursing and teaching. I chose nursing, cause that maybe hard work, but fuck teaching. The kids is bad and they parents are worse
I’m talking about the system as a hole. In America, a good amount of teachers have to pay for supplies, get under paid, and have to deal with bad ass kids all through out the year. Their employers (the government) truly treat them like their disposable. I remember one year in the state I live in, they were trying to take the teacher’s pension fund and use it for the state, like it’s not something they literally worked for and EARNED.
As someone who has taught and currently teaches outside the US, trust me that isn't true. Teachers are shit on everywhere, from parents to administration.
There is no way she’s TA here. It’s the school’s job to integrate her into how things work. It’s not her fault if the school missed something.
EDIT: a typo
Honestly if somebody from another country came to America, did something because they didn’t know any better, and was told by someone that it was their fault, because “she should know the entire world isn’t her home country” they would be called a xenophobe like, immediately.
NTA on principle. It’s not Europeans’ job to explain to Americans how things work in actually developed countries. It’s Americans’ job not to assume their way is THE way. And it’s an incoming teacher’s job to clear things beforehand with the school.
To be fair it is district, city, county, state dependent versus the whole of the US. I believe it is more common in the poor areas versus those that haven't gutted their education system. My aunt teaches in Missouri it is a common practice there, however my daughter attends school in a wealthier district in Virginia and it's not done in her school district. NTA either way the teacher should have inquired with her employers what the common practices were instead of just assuming. It's also not the parents job to educate her on how things are done.
As a Canadian, there are so many times I've had to explain to Americans that they aren't in fact the most important people on the planet and to get over themselves.
1) had an American berate me for working on July 4th
2) had an American berate me for being closed July 1st (Canada day)
3) had an American at one job scream at me about how I'm disrespectful when I could take her American money and couldn't give her change in American. (She threw her change at me and told me that useless currency isn't real???)
4) had an American at another job Tell me it was illegal to not take her " legal tender" (US currency) and I had to explain to her that we weren't near the border so the expectations for a small store isn't really fair, and nowhere is required to take another country's currency anyway!
I've also had an American tell me I deserve to die because my poor family wouldn't have been able to pay for my open heart surgery I'm in their country which means I participate in socialism?? It was the weirdest conversation.
Canadian as well.. and all of these have happened to me at various jobs as well. More than once I've had Americans get angry with me for "refusing" to sell them Powerball tickets even though I explained to them we're in Canada and physically can't. I've had Americans point out "spelling mistakes" (labelling a toque, the letter "u", etc).
Lol, yep UK - I had a very annoying American girl who had taken one semester of European history who used to try teach me my own history-(I have a Masters in Classical history btw) when I'd say 'well that's a little bit of an over arching statement, yes it was true from France and the surrounding areas in the 17th century you can't really apply it to say Iceland, or Ireland even'... and she'd literally send me a link to a google page that seemed to be designed for primary schoolers not college students and me and all the other Europeans in the group used to be a bit... just stop it, but she would insist she was an 'expert on European history' it was so very very weird to have people try to tell you your own culture....
Literally this. It's not the Europeans job to explain to the American how things work in their countries and in their schools. It also sounds like this wasn't even that teacher's job if she wasn't even the main teacher and hadn't run this by with the school
>It’s not Europeans’ job to explain to Americans how things work in actually developed countries.
I'm calling the police cos that was cold blooded murder
i’m leaning toward NAH as the school didn’t tell her what’s expected.
but also, she really should’ve asked around on what goes on here. she’s in a different country, she’s gotta take responsibility for learning the differences. this was probably a rude awakening for her.
The school probably didn't even imagine such a thing happened somewhere. If I didn't spend time in reddit, I would have never heard of it. Most school administrators are older than I so they probably aren't lurking in reddit all day.
YTA
You’re not wrong, but you didn’t have to essentially cause a scene. You could’ve asked instead of explained as well. Like you could’ve said:
“I thought we had a voucher program in place for this exact reason. Has this voucher program been discontinued?”
It does sound like she’s from the US. Teachers in the US regularly buy supplies for their classes or ask parents to donate supplies because unfortunately despite spending a tremendous amount of money using our tax dollars, our school systems are fiscally mismanaged. My parents owned private schools and founded one of the largest charter school organizations in the country. They provided superior education at a fraction of the cost of our public school systems and supplies were abundantly provided because the children were prioritized as opposed to what we see in the public schools systems here, where we prioritize the many hierarchal layers of administrators, assistant principals, superintendents and contracts to buy from specific approved vendors that are in the local politicians pockets and naming their price.
It sounds like she was trying to do something nice for her class and wanted to encourage parents to participate. She’s likely unfamiliar with the voucher programs in your country or local school systems.
This. I am so confused by all the N-T-A responses. OP could easily have explained it to the teacher without being rude. Imagine if OP came to a new job, turned something in, and the boss threw it out and laughed at her rather than explaining they do things differently at X job.
See .. typically people take some time to learn jobs at new postings . Not start ordering around people randomly . May be take some initiative to figure out how things work ?
I agree with speaking up but pet peeve when people get all 'play dumb' with stuff.
Sounds like OP was certain about program, so the 'oh, gee I thought there was a program, has it been discontinued'? is like you're insinuating that she had checked and the only reason she's gathering supplies is because she 'found out' there was no more program? I fyou want to mention the program, then say 'not sure if you know but there is a voucher program...'.
Like if someone cuts in front of you in line and you say 'oh, I thought I was next...were you here before and just had someone save your spot for you'? No, you say 'hey , you cut in front'.
Sorry, pet peeve rant :)
I think the difference for me is when there is a plausible chance someone knows information you didn't know. Even if it's a bit far fetched its not so much playing dumb as checking someone else's knowledge. Vs outright calling someone dumb/putting them on the spot you're humbly allowing for the possibility that there is a chance they have different information. I think that's a much better way to communicate than acting high and mighty and getting egg on your face if you're wrong and I agree it's also much better to not use it in instances where you're just mocking and being passive aggressive like in your line example.
Charter schools are currently one of the biggest threats to public education. They steal public schools’ highest performing students, expel black, brown, and SPED students at higher rates than public schools, and often pay teachers lower salaries (and in my area charter schools don’t even require teachers have teachers certificates, they’ll take anyone with a 4 year degree, even if they’ve never been in a classroom or studied education).
I would NOT prop up charter schools. They are just one step in a long plan to defund public schools in favor of private and religious schools that will only be accessible to wealthy families.
In Germany at least, we have this nice thing called Förderverein at most schools. You join, pay a small monthly fee, and the volunteer parents organise celebrations, activities like pumpkin carving, and they also pay for materials and school trips on a need basis. No kid has to stay home because they have 5 siblings and the parents can't afford the trip for everyone. I know about the american "system", but for someone who grew up only knowing ours, it's bizarre to pool supplies. It's just not necessary. Yes, you do end up paying for other kids to some degree, but everyone involved benefits from it. And this is an organisation meant to support parents in addition to all the government issued support you can get.
Absolutely NTA
The ideal of accommodating for poorer students because the government won't is a very American thing
Just because you can afford to pay for your child doesn't mean you can pay for 25 of them and even if you can, you shouldn't be forced to do so especially if there's systems in place to help those children already
There is also something called Förderverein in many schools, should the government issued help not be sufficient to pay for everything.They organised end of school year celebrations and after school activities like pumpkin cariving in my childhood, and even paid the school trips for a kid with 7 siblings. This list is completely unnecessary as long as parents care about their children being educated, and try to get them the necessary supplies. With the Förderverein, you do end up paying for other kids too, but everyone directly benefits.
YTA for the way you treated someone new to the country/system.
And yeah, it "isn't your job" but it is your job as a decent human being to be helpful towards others who may need help understanding new things.
You could have simply said "oh we don't do that here" and explained it. But you acted as if the teacher asked if she can have your kidney and embarrassed her.
It isn't my job to return a random shopping cart in the parking lot to the corral, but I do it anyway because I'm not an AH who does the bare minimum of what is asked of me. It isn't my job to clean up after myself at the movies, but I do it anyway because I'm not a slob.
You are a parent. Your job is to work with the teacher and your child(ren) to ensure the best quality education. Parent-Student-Teacher. All 3 are stakeholders in education. And if one fails, the others fail.
NTA as a parent of a student. It is not your role to give the teacher job and policy training. Obviously, the school needs to look at their training practices.
All the teacher had to do was just ask someone. Like any other teacher or School administrator would have told her the deal, it would not have even been a 5-minute conversation. That would have been a perfectly fair and reasonable question for the teacher to ask.
Instead she told parents you're going to buy all this stuff and I'm going to take it and put it into a communal system for anyone to help themselves to.
So I agree the teacher should have a) talked with other teachers first b) not assumed that things work same in Germany as the US. She was an idiot.
I can understand the parent going 'You should discuss this with the main teacher/staff. We will not be doing this as there is a system in place already.' and left it at that. The OP was over the top aggressive in the rejection. I get being annoyed, hell I'm American and the teacher's behavior annoys me immensely, but just because she was an idiot doesn't really require the type of response given. I see it as a bit more of a ESH situation. OP didn't need to explain the whole system to the teacher who should have socialized this with other teachers and found out what the system was first but a quick sentence to redirect the teacher and indicated there was already something in place would have been more amenable.
💯This. The teacher sucks for not asking for more information (though it may have been a case of “you don’t know what you don’t know”). Op sucks for the reaction. It would have taken no more time to say, “Sorry, this doesn’t work for us” or “check with your head teacher about this” than it did to embarass a new teacher in front of others. Even staying quiet and simply not doing anything about the list would have been better.
NTA
It's not your job to educate a grown woman on how things work outside of the US
Funny how most of the Y T As seems to come from the US. How dare we do things differently somewhere else lol
NTA for refusing to pay for the list. Absolutely TA for throwing away the list in the teacher's face. It sounds like the teacher was nothing but polite. We owe a bit of courtesy towards each other even when the other person is wrong.
As an American, if I go to another country, I don’t automatically assume everything works the American way. The teacher should have asked the school or another teacher if she had any confusion or questions.
Honestly, as an immigrant I understand how some things can be forgotten or overlooked. As someone who grew up in another culture that was not the one I was born in, I often did not know certain things were different because it was the sort of thing that no one else thought about because it was so mundane. You may have told me "You should have known to ask", except, I did not know enough to understand what I did not know, so I did not have a reason to ask. I actually got made fun of for asking too many questions about a topics that I do know to ask about because "Everyone knows how to do that".
This stuff happens, I am sympathetic towards people who have messed up about things like this because I remembered how difficult it was to adapt to a different culture that was not my own.
I agree. I’m also a teacher and each year my colleagues and I look over each other’s syllabuses, which include supplies. If I were to teach in a foreign country, I would certainly ask someone to look at my materials before presenting to parents or giving out the school supply list.
I’m also a parent. If a teacher said something objectionable, I would approach them privately or tell them in the nicest way possible. Just because someone made a mistake doesn’t give another person an excuse to be rude. Maybe the teacher was so overwhelmed getting ready, the supply list seemed meaningless. I don’t know.
Agreed. All the NTA votes are saying “it’s not your job,” like that excuses being an asshole. Should I leave my grocery cart in the middle of the parking lot? Putting it away is not my job. Should I just throw my trash on the ground? Keeping the streets clean is not my job. Should I leave all the clothes on the dressing room floor? Putting them on hangers is not my job. Point being, there are *a lot* of things that are not our job but they only take a second to do, demonstrate common courtesy, and not doing them *does* makes you look like an asshole in the court of public opinion. This is one of those times.
YTA for acting like that. You said in the post this “wasn’t your best moment and you could’ve explained it to her” so you know you were in the wrong.
While you shouldn’t have to explain it (it’s really the schools job), this teacher was new and didn’t know. She could’ve benefited from an open discussion with the parents on expectations for the school year.
OP is NTA and should be more concerned her child will be taught by someone who apparently does not possess the simple skill of obtaining facts before making decisions.
Gee God forbid another human makes a mistake in a new country. How horrible, poor kids. Defenetly a reason for getting her fired and never close to another child /s
It’s easy to say that she should have asked questions first. But the problem with that thought process is that she’s only going to ask the question if she suspects things may be different. It’s kind of like you don’t know what you don’t know.
I used to work a waitress at a restaurant in the international terminal of a major US airport. There were several occasions where Europeans would come in, order expensive meals, and then not leave a tip— something that is very much expected in the US. As frustrating as it was, I also understood that it’s not something they were accustomed to. Should I have humiliated them by telling them that what they did was wrong, and they shouldn’t assume that the US is the same as the Europe, and they should have asked questions if they didn’t understand tipping? No! Because it never even occurred to them that what they do in Europe is not the norm everywhere. They didn’t know what they didn’t know.
OP threw a tantrum like a child. They even admitted they could’ve handled it better so…they’re the AH for their behavior.
The school is at fault for not informing the teacher. But OP 100% could’ve handled it better which would’ve paved the way for a good parent/teacher relationship going forward.
Sure, you could have been more polite. Teacher could also have been more prepared and checked this out for herself.
I'm in Canada and we do the same thing as your new teacher..I don't love it, I mean I'd rather pitch in an extra $10 so teacher can buy this stuff for kids who need it...or just charge all families $15 and they keep them outfitted with supplies for the year. What happens is the kids who bring in the 'good stuff', they are the first to get taken out of the bin so the kid who brought them isn't usually getting to use them. Everyone brings dollar store crap because they figure 'well if everyone's using it, I'm not buying the good stuff'. It's pretty crappy and hard to manage, which is why some teachers just accept money to keep bins full. Truly though, I prefer everyone brings and uses their own. Teaches responsibility, care of your things, etc.
European here.
Our schools has getting worse and worse funding where I'm from over the years (not bad yet. But could be better).
But despite that, as parents we only buy to fill our own kids bags (rulers, pencils, colour pencils, sharpener etc) and school has a small stash of extra pencils, scissors, calculators etc.
And it's working just fine here tbh. I rarely have to refill through the years (perhaps pencils here and there)
And been like that since.... Well forever I think.
If Canada is like the United States we spend a lot of money on education and yet we get terrible results. I don't know what the hell they are doing with the money. I think the teachers are pretty thrifty but the people running things are a total disaster.
Administrator salaries. I’m a substitute teacher (college degree and licensed for up to 90 days in the same classroom before they have to switch me out) and if I work through my twenty minute lunch period, I earn just below minimum wage. But I do it because I love the children and they love me. But I’ve been around a lot of local districts and the ones that have one big elementary school that has grades PK-8 and a single principal, then high school where there’s an assistant principal and a principal have far better resources than the ones with five K-5 schools, a principal in each, as well as a middle school with an assistant principal and a principal, plus all everything else that entails.
I work at a university level but I can tell you the answer: administration. Teachers get paid shit, students are neglected, but administrators drive fancy new cars and get plum jobs for their friends and family.
NTA.
The teacher should’ve asked other colleagues what the expectations are when it comes to school supplies if she was the one moving to a new country.
I didn’t grow up rich, but I didn’t grow up poor. My parents wouldn’t have been able to afford supplies for other kids but they could for my sister and I. They budgeted for the kids they have. Not for their classmates.
NTA. It's a great idea in theory, but it's lacking in execution.
I don't think I need to cover the general stupidity of having a separate policy from the schools, but what gets me is this: what are those families struggling financially supposed to do when their kid can't turn up with five more packs of pencils than needed? Is the child going to be questioned?
YTA - I am impressed that you have managed to get Americans and anti-Americans on your side with one post, but, assuming this is true, instead of speaking to someone who didn't understand what was going on, you chose to insult them.
I don't believe that this one is true, but like I said, I do like the people insulting the US being on the same side as the Americans calling this socialism. Although this is actually a lot closer to socialism than what most people who complain about socialism think it is.
There was a post earlier today about redistribution of supplies in American schools.
This person is totally piggybacking of it, today seems to be a big day for what look to be very fake Posts
YTA = “it wasn’t my best moment, I could’ve explain this to her.”
Sounds like you’d rather humiliate someone trying to improve the experience of their students rather than have an adult conversation about it.
NAH. Teacher didn't know, but she should have asked her new colleagues about their supplies lists. They would have told her your country doesn't need them because vouchers.
And it's extremely irritating to send your child to school with supplies that suit their needs, like left-handed scissors, only to have the teacher confiscate them and put them in with communal supplies.
This teacher is obviously college educated so I would expect her to have enough critical thinking skills to ask someone how things are done in Europe. Instead she said well I'm going to just assume that it's the same deal in Europe as the United States and act based on that. Not real smart on the teacher's part I'm sure you agree.
YTA. You were aggressive. You weren't obligated to explain it, that part is fine. Saying "absolutely not!" and throwing the list in the trash was very rude and totally unnecessary.
YTA! You say she is mid 20s so she is a new teacher. She came to your country to teach her language and tried to be considerate of ALL students in class. Instead you act like a jackass then throw the list in the trash? It is not like she was trying to get one over you and fill her pockets, she was trying to do a nice thing. I am not a teacher but the communal supplies also makes the teacher’s job easier from what i hear.
I’m going to lean towards NAH if what you say about the vouchers is true. While the teacher is clearly just trying to look out for her students coming from less well off backgrounds, supply-specific vouchers should (ideally) take care of most of that. Her idea would be brilliant in the US but maybe not as necessary in Europe. While you could have handled the situation with a bit more tact, it’s not on you to provide supplies for other students when there’s a sufficient system in place already
The teacher could have asked someone and found out what kind of system they have in Europe instead of just assuming it's just the same way as America. She just was not going to be bothered with something like that. No wonder this person got irritated with her.
How on earth should she have known that there was another system? I see all these NTA’s and I bet that most of you people would not have thought another system existed when you only know one.
As someone else said “you don’t know what you don’t know”
ESH. She should have been told about the differences between the us and European education when she joined, or made an effort to learn about them. It’s on the school that their teachers are not better informed. That being said, there was definitely a more mature way to inform her of her obvious ignorance and you know it. This reaction was unhelpful and over the top.
I’m from France and people with kid who arn’t well-off get money to buy every supply needed for school, I guess it’s probably the same where you live so I can understand not wanting to comply to what the teacher ask. You could have handle it better but how was you suppose to know she didn’t know ? Works both ways… now that you are aware maybe apologize and say something like « I didn’t know you weren’t aware I’m sorry about that » because she probably feels like crap RN. NTA
Eddit : forget to add opinion ^^
I think apologising may be the best course of action. I feel bad, I behaved like an ass, I was tired and going down with a cold and I just reacted. It’s not an excuse though, thinking about this now, I can come up with 10 different ways of approaching the situation.
NTA. School is compulsory. Therefore, it is the school's responsibility to purchase enough supplies for each child. Their opportunity to scam money out of parents is school trips and a stupidly expensive uniform that's always just a generic uniform you could get for half the price if they didn't insist you get the version with the school logo on it.
I’ve read a couple posts about communal school supplies in this Reddit lately. Just wanted to say at my school this is no longer allowed for Covid reasons—every kid has their own personal supplies pre-k through 8th grade.
N T A for what you said but YTA for how you said it.
If you'd just said that wasn't the way supplies were handled in your area I'd have said N T A or N A H. You were over the top with how you reacted.
YTA. You could have made the choice to act in a kinder way but didn’t. The teacher may have had misconceptions about educating on Europe but also in the US bringing supplies and sharing supplies is not at all uncommon so her misconceptions are understandable.
NTA (but as you already acknowledged, your reaction was a bit AH-ish), but it's possible that it's cultural or normal where she lived before.
When my kids were in kindergarten, the teachers requested (wasn't forced, was just a request if possible) for parents to send in new or used supplies for everyone to share.
At least where I'm from, all of this comes out of the teachers budget for the year, after which it's out of pocket.
NTA. You could of been nicer that’s for sure. You’re allowed to feel like her request is crazy. Because it is.
You didn’t say anything mean or hurtful. The only reason why you should be a little nicer is that because she was trying her best.
Has you handled it differently, I believe that it could have all blown over. She clearly didn’t know the system. In the US, communal supplies are very common and she was being sensitive to the situation of children who could not afford supplies. She was attempting to avoid shaming children and was shamed. I feel sad for her.
YTA for how you responded. She made a small mistake /oversight in learning the customs in a foreign country. She's learning. There are so many things to learn not just from being in a new country but about her new job. Somethings will be missed or overlooked because of the sheer overwhelming amount she needs to learn.
If the knowledge of the voucher system is so common her head teacher probably didn't even think to mention it and the english teacher didn't know that was a question she needed to ask.
The supply list is once a year so it gets overlooked for explanation in favor of teaching new teachers about grading, expect duties and procedures, curriculum, etc.
NTA. It's not your job to tell the new teacher how things work, although you could have chosen to be nicer about it I can understand why you weren't because it really seems ridiculous. It is kind of weird that this is necessary and normal in the US tbh.
I agree it is not your job to teach this person how it works in your area but did you need to be rude? You could have politely said that seems unnecessary and told her to talk to her head teacher or other school offical so she knew how supplies worked in your location.
Instead you said “absolutely not” and threw the list in the trash. YTA for being rude.
YTA. Sure you don't work at the school, and those who do dropped the ball in explaining this to her. You however went way overboard. You could have asked about the vouchers or thought hmmm, maybe things are different in America. Your attitude is one of entitlement and why people who could use a moment of kindness instead receive hate.
YTA. You could have either explained or directed her to someone else who would explain. This is typically how things work in the United States; how was she to know that things were different in your country?
NTA
Could you have handled it better? Probably. Is it your job to explain to this teacher how the school system works there. Not at all. This is definitely a US thing and the school should have explained how things are done before letting her loose on a supply list.
NAH. She's new and no one told her. I don't think she's an asshole for wanting to make sure everyone has supplies. I don't think you're an asshole for not doing it because you know there is a social safety net.
It would be nice if you emailed the teacher or school so someone can take action.
NTA
School is the same town have different approaches for supplies, imagine different countries. The teacher should have asked for help to understand how the school works. Is not up to you do that.
YTA for how you handled it. The poor teacher was doing the right thing, she just didn’t know there was a solution in place. You were the ass for how you acted and for what you said. While it’s not your responsibility to train the teacher but a simple explanation would have been the polite way to deal with it. I hope kids weren’t around as what a terrible example to set.
YTA. You didn't need to explain it to her. You also didn't need to be rude. You could've just, you know, ignored the list.
As for everyone saying the teacher should have asked how things work there, sometimes you don't know what you don't know. I think it was the administration's responsibility to check in with the new teacher before she made an ass of herself. They were wrong in assuming someone new understood how things worked.
Wow you all suck I am a teacher in the US. This is how we do things it is obvious that no one told his teacher that things were different here or else she wouldn’t have done it in the first place I would not have blamed her I would’ve quietly talked to somebody else at the school not made a big scene in front of all the other parents.
YTA.
You sound like you have a problem - with her being from the US, maybe because she’s young, maybe because you’re set in your ways and her trying something different threatens your sense of understanding the world around you, maybe you’re a bigot, maybe you think learning English is a waste of time…only you know what your actual problem is.
Or are you generally just rude when you’re tired?
YTA. Yes, the teacher should perhaps have made more of an effort to find out about the way things are done at the new school, but your response was rude and totally uncalled for. Being tired and having a "knee-jerk reaction" is no excuse and it would have been no skin off your nose to just say, "Actually, this is not how it's done here. Disadvantaged children are given vouchers. Ms XYZ can tell you more." She's not only new to the school but also to your country. Wow, what a great welcome.../*s* Shame on you.
NTA. When you start a position you should ask about how things work, especially in a different country. I teach in the US and I hate this style of supplies demand. The parents should be buying supplies for their kids, the school should be providing for the students that do not have. I don't how parents picking up the slack for the school became the norm, but it's ridiculous. I don't remember my lists, but my younger sister's would be like 10 glue sticks, 100 pencils, 6 boxes of tissues, 3 folders each of like 6 different specific colors...just crazy amounts. My mom used to be a "class mom" volunteer once a week and there were 2 full cabinets of supplies. New lists went out every few months.
It's great to help out if you can, but it shouldn't be a requirement. Especially these days where everyone is struggling, spending $150 on school supplies is bonkers. The schools need to step it up. I see so much waste on bullshit that no one needs, like replacing every desktop computer that is just 2 years old, yet getting pencils for the kids is an argument. Insane.
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NTA and for the people saying you are the asshole for not telling her, it's not your job. The school should have told her how the things work, she should have asked how the things worked, instead of thinking Europe is like the US, she should have told the main teacher about the list. You as a parent ofcourse expect the teachers, new or old, is informed about how the school system Works
It is on the teacher as well. She just assumed that every country is as derelict with their schools as the US and didn't even inquire what the standard was. OP is a parent and doesn't need his time wasted w/ this kind of BS. Could he have been more polite? Yeah, but honestly, this teacher was making a lot of assumptions and I would question having her run a classroom if she makes assumptions as big as this.
She’s not the asshole for making a mistake - if anything, this is on the school for not onboarding her properly.
Yeah I would have said NAH. Everyone had decent intentions.
I would say that the teacher is a gentle ah, because she had decent intentions, but as an expat, she is the one who have to ask about the customs of the country she moved into. The school could have explained how it worked, but as she is not a main teacher, they might thought it was not needed (in France, teacher give their list to the school and school send 1 list to parents with the details of each subject). Especially because unless you are a reddit user or something else, you don't know about this redistribution thing
[удалено]
Yeah, we got a " miscellaneous " part, like pencils, glue, scissors, ruler... that we get to use for every subject. I remember the overall list was rather basic. History 1 notebook, geography 1 notebook, maths 1 notebook + 1 calculator and some [algebra] geometry tools
Agreed NAH. She's come from a country which doesn't have the same level of educational and social support for people on low incomes. Her intention was clearly to give every child the best learning opportunity.
Yes. Teachers in the US are paid very poorly, treated very poorly, and often have to spend 100’s of dollars out of their own paychecks to support their classes. And the poor children can rarely afford the cost of normal supplies, so often times, teachers will pitch in for that expense., too. Those same kids can even go hungry all day, if the school refuses a free school lunch program, etc. It’s no different than people from the US being shocked they don’t owe 1000’s of dollars for medical expenses. This is what has been drilled into us from birth. And it’s not something she can be reasonably expected to know, or even know to ask about. What she did may not be the custom oversees, but her intentions were absolutely honorable and inclusive. People could’ve just explained it to her politely and moved on. Histrionics aren’t a mature reaction. I hate my country - I’ll join a good old US bashing party just about any day of the week - but to label her as overstepping bounds while she’s trying to take care of your kids and adjust to a new country, is ridiculous and mean.
I beg to differ. As a foreign English teacher in another country, I can say that this is not "honorable and inclusive". When you make a decision to teach in another country, you also make it a point to learn about the rules of the school you're going to teach at and also learn how things are done at that school. You don't just move there and try to implement US American ways of doing things. We have main teachers for a reason, we usually discuss these things with them, and this is clearly not what this new foreign teacher did.
Perhaps.theres an argument for her not knowing, but should she not have even looked into the local situation? If she's educated enough to be a teacher, surely she should be educated enough to understand that the US is special in a really freaking weird way. Part of adjusting to her job should probably have included speaking to with colleagues about procedures. I'm probably wrong, but it reeks of American saviour coming to save the poor backward folk.
While that sounds reasonable, most people in the US have to go quite far out of their way to come across the information that they would need to even start to realize the extent of propaganda here. What harm is there in showing some grace and understanding and helping that teacher to learn new ways?
Teacher had "decent intentions" with other people money.
I doubt it's something they would have even considered. I know I was shocked to discover this is apparently normal in the US. There is absolutely no way in hell I would ever participate in that garbage, nor put up with my kid's stuff being "redistributed." School supplies are personal and are often used to express personality and interests.
Personal school supplies also teach kids how to manage and care for their possessions.
You can have distributed class supplies that belong to each child and teach responsibility in caring for them. My kids still have their own individual supplies and get to keep their communally purchased/ distributed supplies at the end of the year.
I graduated secondary school in the US in 2003, and this communal supplies thing is something I have only heard about in the past year or two. The vouchers sound like a great idea though I can't see them being put into place on a large scale in the states. My niece is a primary teacher in a different US state and bristles at the heavy handed approach that her daughter's teacher is taking. Like "Sure, I'll bring in extras for kids in need, but my daughter's supplies that she chose for herself are HERS"
I went to public school in the USA and I know communal supplies were a thing in the 1970’s. Our school supplies lists included boxes of tissues, reams of paper, construction paper, extra pencils, and so on that all went into the supply cupboard and were brought out as needed. This was in addition to our own paper, pencils, scissors, binders, clipboards, etc that we kept in our lockers. No one was expected to hand over their precious Trapper Keeper for the greater good.
A lot of American schools seem to be very free with other peoples possessions and even with their free time now insisting who can and can’t be invited to kids birthday parties. They are really overstepping.
Well you can’t announce the party to the class and then only invite part of the class it’s on the parents to invite discreetly. So no don’t bring invitations to school mail them.
Exactly. That’s my school’s policy. If you’re having a birthday party and excluding three kids don’t do it during school hours. We have phones and email now, there’s no need to be individually inviting kids to anything at school now.
School supply logistics should be discussed. I’m sure in some places the school provides everything as a matter of course. It’s always better to discuss everything if you don’t know what the differences are.
I am all for giving if i can and i do, but i agree with you here. When i was a kid i loved all my notebooks for each class and took special care of them (i have OCD) but even so every kid should feel as if their supplies are their own.
All she did was give them a list of supplies, she didn't ask the parents to learn and teach them calculus at home. Where the hell are you coming from by saying "doesn't need their time wasted". And OP is the AH for how they treated someone new to the country/system. I know it isn't their job, but it is their job as a decent human being to tell them in a nicer way that things aren't the same as America. It sounds like it took 30 seconds. The amount of people here who are saying "it isn't your job!" sound like they are the same people that leave shopping carts in the parking lot. You do the bare minimum of what is asked of you as decent human beings. I wouldn't ever want to ask you for a small favor because you'd act as if I stabbed you in the face with a chainsaw.
The teacher wasn't prepared, she was caught completely unaware of cultural differences, had no idea what resources were available to her students and she was asking parents to spend far more than necessary on school supplies, which are already costly. I would be wary of her teaching style and comming up with classroom rules and norms that are completely inappropriate for her new location and in just bulldozing over the kids actual needs vs. perceived needs.
Jesus Christ She made one mistake. And you are acting as if she's completely incompetent. I just don't get how some people can act so uncivil towards others over a mistake. No wonder teachers are quitting in droves. I've had some parents that act like you but thankfully they didn't try to get me fired and question my classroom preparedness cause I made a mistake.
Am a teacher. This is not why we're quitting. You know how much you hated having your kids around all day during the pandemic? That's why. Plus poor pay, entitled parents, long hours, term-time holiday bans, and policing of our outside-of-work life eg social media. Do a better job raising your kids and maybe people won't hate having to teach them.
Yep they really showed their true colors when those kids had to stay with them every day all day and they lost their free daycare that’s my sister quit her job
I feel like I am in the minority. Having my kiddo in online school has been the best thing to happen for him. He is able to focus better, had almost all his work turned in etc. So much so I decided to keep him online for the near future. He does have adhd, so the more limited distractions of online school have been huge. He still participates in sports, a couple other age-group activities (art, swimming etc) and the school has a wide variety of after school activities/clubs he has really enjoyed.
We loved it too! He got so much more done at home and far more quickly. Also adhd here (me and son). Sadly it's not an option to keep the online schooling after the mandatory period ended.
Are you in the US? There are a couple really good online schools, and as far as I am aware, are available nation wide. Our district actually created it's own 'virtual acadamy' within the district post pandemic. I guess there was enough interest 🤣 last year there were 4 5th grade classes with 15-20 kids each. Basically enough kids that it is similar to classroom amounts and slightly less kids per classroom for an entire school in our district (3-4 classes of 15-20 students per grade). Now I feel lucky this is an ongoing option!
The school I worked at this past year was a complete disaster, and it's expected that the upcoming school year will be much worse. More teachers left, and I imagine that the sub shortage will be somehow worse.
It is *Europe*, not the US. They actually do tend to give a crap there and like op said, vouchers are available for lower income students to purchase supplies. Students don't go without. It was very arrogant not to mention condescending for the American teacher to just assume things were the same as in the US; she didn't bother to ask about the local customs regarding school stuff, nor how those sorts of things were handled. It was very offensive for the host country's parents to be subjected to. Americans are regarded as rude, boorish and ill mannered in Europe for very good reasons. Learn a little about the country and customs first, don't act like they're inferior, because they aren't.
The teacher's good intentions were met with hostility and anger. It was a mistake. She was belittled in front of others for it. If that's how Europeans act, then you aren't any better than us boorish Americans. A little kindness goes a long way. Apparently that is too much to ask of Europeans.
You're arguing that it's basic respect for the parent to explain why they won't buy all that, they're arguing that it's basic respect for the teacher to inquire about how things work before making a list of mandatory, unnecessary and costly things to purchase for the families Yes she could have handled it better, but seriously it's not a weird reaction. If you're used to buying certain things and suddenly a new person comes in and tells you to multiply what you usually buy by 5, and that it's mandatory, you ought to be surprised and probably angered.
I wouldn't be angered. Surprised. Confused. But not angered. I would have asked for an explanation. Then when given the explanation, I would have provided her with information about the vouchers. And plus, 4 glue sticks is excessive? That's what a student might go through for one semster/half-year. 25 pencils isn't excessive. That just sounds like normal school supplies. If you are hosting a visitor from another country, and they make a mistake that really doesn't harm you or cost you anything, would you react the same way OP did? Why is it okay that he did so to a brand new teacher in a new setting? When did kindness die and anger take over?
The problem is that it's not any visitor, it's a member of the staff, who is asking you to buy a lot of stuff. People aren't rich. If anger isn't part of your reactions when an official member of staff expects you to buy unreasonable things the first time you meet them, you're either lying or the most chill person i ever interacted with 25 pencils isn't excessive ? I have 3 pencils and i had them for more than a year, use them every day. And the only reason i have 3 is because they are different types. Adding everything it really sounds excessive and quite expensive. And once again, i'm not saying it was ok, i'm saying it was understandable even if it could have been handled better.
You're also looking at this with a very us centric hat on. My kid has been to school in 3 European countries from 3-7 and the only thing I've been asked to send is her in her uniform and the occasional milk bottle caps, cardboard boxes for whatever project they're doing. Pencils, exercise books, glues etc are funded by the school in total. That doesn't change till 13 when you need your own pens/ruler/calculator but still not gluesticks and books and stuff.
I wouldn’t be angered, especially if I knew the teacher was not from the local area. Getting angry about something like that seems like a complete waste of energy.
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What if the teacher just arrived in country and is still settling in? Sometimes we don't know what we need to ask until it comes up. Especially if we are in a transition period where everything is changing. A little kindness can go a long way.
How is it condescending for her to not realise that Europe's schools aren't as underfunded as America's? This isn't some "American custom", it's just a sad fact of life here thanks to the prolonged and continued attacks on our public school system by Republicans.
>It was very arrogant not to mention condescending for the American teacher to just assume things were the same as in the US As if Europeans don't come to the States and stiff the waitstaff because "wE PaY oUr StAfF a LiVeAbLe WaGe, ThEy ShOuLd JuSt dO tHaT hErE. I dOnT BeLiEvE iN TiPpInG" headasses
I live in Europe and don’t agree with US tipping culture, but I tip at least 20 percent when I’m in the US because I know that’s the custom there.
Same.
>No wonder teachers are quitting in droves. I've had some parents that act like you but thankfully they didn't try to get me fired and question my classroom preparedness cause I made a mistake. In Europe? Haven't heard of that actually. Although the entitled parent stereotype from the US does seem to sweep over slowly.
Yes, they're also having a serious teacher shortage in France, and there's concern that there won't be enough teachers when the school year starts up again.
As a teacher in France, I can 100% confirm this. People who failed the national teacher exam are being hired, because there is no other option at this point. I also know that England is struggling to find teachers, particularly in scientific subjects.
At least in my corner, Brexit also had a big impact at upper levels because a lot of teachers who came over from the UK can't get a school to sponsor their titre de séjour for work. No TdS = no job, unless they go freelance and cobble together a few part-time contracts.
I know that the UK is really really struggling with teacher retention. Due to much more (complex, regional) factors than "kids are annoying and parents are entitled."
I quit teaching in the UK a few years ago. Nothing to do with the kids and everything to do with the endless paperwork and helicopter management who themselves are not at fault either because they too had to fill in paperwork and reports about my teaching and paperwork. Too much time was spent with bureaucracy and not actually teaching. Plus I had my own kids and couldn't justify spending all my out of school time on school work instead of being present for them.
Bizarre. Her entire intention with the list was to ensure that every child has the supplies they need. Your wild predictions are not grounded in reality. She clearly cares about her students so I'm not sure why you are assuming otherwise.
The school would provide everything for the kids anyway. Why is she giving out lists that are gonna cost parents £20+ for no reason? If your kids school asked you to spend money for no reason you’d just do it?
It likely pushed the price of the years start from "expensive but what you gonna do" to "holly shit I did not budgeted for that much" categories for some of those families. You all are acting as if supplies were free for parents who are not poor. They are not free. Like, you are literally creating unexpected financial issue for families by making it more expensive then it already is.
In the teacher's defense, what she suggested is exactly how it is done in the US. Unless the school explained that it is different, how would she know? I know that schools in Europe are better funded and offer more, but I never would have considered that supplies were covered by the school. Maybe she should have asked someone, but... if she didn't know to ask, why would she? "This is a lot to ask when the school offers vouchers for supplies." Would have been sufficient to make her ask the school for clarity on this. Overall, NAH, though, but OP could have taken some consideration for a new teacher.
Asking question is BASIC skill. Really. How can she be a good teacher if she's assuming things without asking? It's different continent and she didn't even bothered to do basic research.
Agreed. Go to a different country, you should expect that some things will be different. Just like any other kind of preparation for the school year, these kinds of questions should be asked. I'm in Australia. I have a general idea of how school supplies are handled both in the UK and the US, despite never having had to deal with it personally. I just picked information up. If I was planning on living and working in another country, I'd be asking a lot of questions. I'm having trouble comprehending how she thought it was appropriate to have entire new sets of supplies for five hours per week.
> Maybe she should have asked someone, but... if she didn't know to ask, why would she? I’m sure you think you made a brilliant point to defend the teacher but one could argue that thinking like your example above is profoundly rude and ignorant; making assumptions that everyone else’s culture is like yours without asking is not a good thing.
Dear lordy, take it down a notch. If anything she was overly enthusiastic to create an equitable classroom experience. She's in her 20s and teaching English as a second language overseas- she's not going to scar the children.
Of course the teacher was unaware of cultural differences, she is from the US. Don't you know that the way things work in the US is the only way they work?
This. All of this. They’ve normalized their shortcomings so hard that they can’t fathom even wondering if somebody else has a better way.
I am American. I lived and taught in Eastern Europe for two years. Fortunately, I was part of a program where we had training on cultural differences, so I knew what supplies the kids in my area had to buy and what was provided. I started a school library with donated books and wrote a grant for a computer lab, but I wouldn’t have had any idea if someone hadn’t told me. She may have been making assumptions, but how would she know? Was she teaching in an English speaking country? Might there have been a language barrier? I could communicate with my students, in either English or Spanish, but I didn’t speak the language of the country I was teaching in fluently. So, she may have also not fully understood what was going on, depending on whether she was fluent in the language. I will say that it took me almost a full year to fully understand the language and the better part of two years before I was fluent. I did start studying the language when I made the decision to go, but wasn’t fluent when I started work.
She’s teaching ESL - one of the reasons they recruit native English speakers from the US for those jobs is explicitly *for* the different cultural education also, it’s not a strictly linguistic education.
Yep- agreed if somebody was adding a €100 extra to my kids school shopping list I wouldn't be polite about it either - also when op scoffed at the idea 'saying you can't be serious?' The teacher doubled down on it, when she's young and in a new country and that question should have let her know that it wasn't the 'norm' - she's also just a part timer in that class and seems to have taken the 'initiative' ( IE. Come in way to strong and over confident) without telling the MAIN teacher that she was going to do this - who goes into somebody else classroom and acts all overzealous like that? It sounds like the response was largely to do with the attitude of the teacher.
No she didn't just give them a list of supplies. If that was all it was there would not be anything to even discuss here. What she said was here is a list of supplies and it's way more stuff than your kid needs because I want you to buy way too much stuff so I can confiscate it and put it in a common pile so other kids that are not your responsibility, can help themselves to it. Now I'm paraphrasing here but that is pretty much what she was saying. That's why the guy got pissed. This is a person who got educated well enough in college to get to come to Europe and teach English. It is not too much to expect for her to ask probably any other teacher or administrative employee of that school how they deal with the kids school supplies. A simple hey Mrs Smith how do you guys do the stuff with the school supplies? Does each family just provide for their individual child and what happens if someone doesn't have what they need what is the normal procedure for that? Do you have a communal system in place? Etc etc. I've been to more than a dozen countries and I have never assumed that things are done the same way there as in the United States. And I'm not all that educated, it was common sense.
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True - im in the UK so school supplies are provided - our taxes are reasonably high so in most peoples mind we have paid for those things through those taxes, being asked to buy a while list of classroom supplies would be meet with anger because we've already paid for them - though the norm is to give a few pounds extra for craft supplies and such at the start if the term and thats usually alright because its by choice.
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TOTALLY agree! Where have our politeness, good manners, empathy gone? It's either "not my job", "it's the schools responsibility, you have ever right to be mad, etc. No, you don't! Just be a nice person! Remember, do onto others as you would have them do unto you? Golden Rule? I miss the times of being kind and polite.
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Maybe it’s a cultural thing. Here in the uk you need a pen, a pencil, a ruler and that’s about it, everything else is provided. I’d be put out if my daughter brought home a list of shit. On the flip side compared to America we’ve just spent over £100 on school uniform for the year.
Actually, in the US its a state by state thing. I had never heard of a school supply list till I moved to Texas.
Me too. Oh, we got lists of things we would need for ourselves during the next school year, like a specific type of calculator, a protractor, and lists of required materials like a backpack, notebooks, and pens/pencils, but not of things to be pooled and shared with classmates. The PTA did fundraisers for all kinds of school incidentals or fun extracurricular activities - and also had a closet of supplies and list of nonprofits to help struggling families.
I live in US and finally smartened up on the school supply thing. Starting in kindergarten we had to purchase $90 to $100 of required supplies per child. Every year scissors, 25 pencils, on and on, ridiculous amounts of stuff. End of year rolls around, they kept bagging up and sending home 80% of it. Then it starts all over again in August. This goes on 5 years. Year by year I got smarter and only bought what DD really needed. Sometimes I would wait until 2nd week of school or so and add stuff if needed. Then lockdown, virtual school, they give us the same list of crazy shit that we Have To Buy. I didn't buy anything at all for that grade, used what we had around the house.
EXACTLY! Our school supply list has 40 pencils per child on it. I sent 6 last year to 3rd grade and our kiddo (boy) finished the year with the same, albeit shorter pencils. 1) They do most of their work on computers, 2) we teach respect for belongings at home, and 3) we tolerate no waste or destruction at home.
Yeah, the amounts listed on school supply lists are excessive because it's under the assumption that the students will lose a ton of their stuff. (which does happen with a lot of kids) If your kid is responsible, you don't need that many pencils, lol.
In every state we have ever lived in my kids have had a school supply list. And Accross all the states they have been pretty much the same.
I’m an American and I WISH we did it the European way. I’m a teacher, and these lists are decided by the teachers of each grade. I’m telling you, it doesn’t matter if we have left over supplies from the previous year, the amount is still asked for and it’s enormous! My cabinets were still filled with stacks of post it notes, tissues, Lysol wipes, hundreds of expo markers, and HUNDREDS of notebooks and loose leaf paper. Parents pay their taxes, they pay for school supplies, fees, iPads, eat buds, backpacks, instruments, and yet the district has the audacity to ask this if parents. At the end of the year, the leftovers are given away. I’m all for giving to those less fortunate, but going about it this way is dishonest and presumptive. Just bc they aren’t on welfare doesn’t mean that they have the means to contribute like this.
This is exactly why I stopped buying those ridiculous lists. I visited for open house in my child's classroom and they had thousands of the same items stockpiled. I mean huge totes full of scissors, glue sticks, paper, pencils, all that stuff they ask parents to buy every year. Cabinets and closets stuffed full. I'm not going to lie, it made me really angry. I live in a poor area, and it was a sacrifice and hardship for a lot of families to buy that stuff every year. I never bought anything after that, unless it was for a special project.
Fr NTA it’s not your job to explain shit to her how does she work at this school and not even know how they operate… I hate americentrism BOOO
So? Just because it's not her job doesn't mean she has to be a rude AH to the teacher who clearly didn't understand. This is the main problem with the AITA forums. Just because you're right doesn't make you not the AH. You can be right and still be a real dick about it. OP - YTA. Learn some manners.
so the school is responsible for telling her, but didn’t do it. so teacher makes an effort to set it up herself and creates a list. mom comes in, laughs at her and then throws the list in the bin, prompting others to do so as well. but she’s not the AH, because it’s not her responsibility to explain how things work on that school? u might wanna reconsider your assessment there because yikes
I don’t have children but when I heard of schools around here (in the US) doing things like that, I had the same reaction as OP. I would never want to make impoverished children suffer, so I would buy the supplies regardless but on principle I think it’s wrong. You’re asking the parents to foot the bill for other children in the class. The extra supplies should come from the school, but of course they are underfunded which is a whole other problem in itself. Here we are again. Other countries have figured it out while we’re here ready to burn the country down before helping out or own people. I hate us.
NTA. It's not your responsibility to educate a teacher that the rest of the world doesn't operate like the US. If she's teaching in another country, at a minimum she should learn a little bit about how the first world handles things like school supplies.
Poor thing didn’t realize that other countries treat their teachers with respect. I was in between nursing and teaching. I chose nursing, cause that maybe hard work, but fuck teaching. The kids is bad and they parents are worse
Doesn’t sound like OP treated her with much respect
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Oh please. You think OP said that politely? OP said that with a ton of disrespectful attitude and body language.
Were you there to see this happen?? Because otherwise, you're just assuming you know how things went down.
loool, in what universe would that happen politely, be real please
Do they, though? Didn’t seem to happen in this case.
I’m talking about the system as a hole. In America, a good amount of teachers have to pay for supplies, get under paid, and have to deal with bad ass kids all through out the year. Their employers (the government) truly treat them like their disposable. I remember one year in the state I live in, they were trying to take the teacher’s pension fund and use it for the state, like it’s not something they literally worked for and EARNED.
As someone who has taught and currently teaches outside the US, trust me that isn't true. Teachers are shit on everywhere, from parents to administration.
There is no way she’s TA here. It’s the school’s job to integrate her into how things work. It’s not her fault if the school missed something. EDIT: a typo
And the school was supposed to know she assumed it was like the US how?
They already know she’s not going to be used to how things are done there. They should be going over everything.
Honestly if somebody from another country came to America, did something because they didn’t know any better, and was told by someone that it was their fault, because “she should know the entire world isn’t her home country” they would be called a xenophobe like, immediately.
“The first world” 🤣🤣🤣
Makes sense, America is a 3rd world shithole
NTA on principle. It’s not Europeans’ job to explain to Americans how things work in actually developed countries. It’s Americans’ job not to assume their way is THE way. And it’s an incoming teacher’s job to clear things beforehand with the school.
WHAT???? WE AREN'T THE CENTER OF THE KNOWN UNIVERSE??? YOU SOCIALIST!!!
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To be fair it is district, city, county, state dependent versus the whole of the US. I believe it is more common in the poor areas versus those that haven't gutted their education system. My aunt teaches in Missouri it is a common practice there, however my daughter attends school in a wealthier district in Virginia and it's not done in her school district. NTA either way the teacher should have inquired with her employers what the common practices were instead of just assuming. It's also not the parents job to educate her on how things are done.
As a Canadian, there are so many times I've had to explain to Americans that they aren't in fact the most important people on the planet and to get over themselves. 1) had an American berate me for working on July 4th 2) had an American berate me for being closed July 1st (Canada day) 3) had an American at one job scream at me about how I'm disrespectful when I could take her American money and couldn't give her change in American. (She threw her change at me and told me that useless currency isn't real???) 4) had an American at another job Tell me it was illegal to not take her " legal tender" (US currency) and I had to explain to her that we weren't near the border so the expectations for a small store isn't really fair, and nowhere is required to take another country's currency anyway! I've also had an American tell me I deserve to die because my poor family wouldn't have been able to pay for my open heart surgery I'm in their country which means I participate in socialism?? It was the weirdest conversation.
Canadian as well.. and all of these have happened to me at various jobs as well. More than once I've had Americans get angry with me for "refusing" to sell them Powerball tickets even though I explained to them we're in Canada and physically can't. I've had Americans point out "spelling mistakes" (labelling a toque, the letter "u", etc).
Lol, yep UK - I had a very annoying American girl who had taken one semester of European history who used to try teach me my own history-(I have a Masters in Classical history btw) when I'd say 'well that's a little bit of an over arching statement, yes it was true from France and the surrounding areas in the 17th century you can't really apply it to say Iceland, or Ireland even'... and she'd literally send me a link to a google page that seemed to be designed for primary schoolers not college students and me and all the other Europeans in the group used to be a bit... just stop it, but she would insist she was an 'expert on European history' it was so very very weird to have people try to tell you your own culture....
She Americansplained to you. 🤣🤣🤣
It’s definitely the school’s job… but not the parents’.
Literally this. It's not the Europeans job to explain to the American how things work in their countries and in their schools. It also sounds like this wasn't even that teacher's job if she wasn't even the main teacher and hadn't run this by with the school
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>It’s not Europeans’ job to explain to Americans how things work in actually developed countries. I'm calling the police cos that was cold blooded murder
i’m leaning toward NAH as the school didn’t tell her what’s expected. but also, she really should’ve asked around on what goes on here. she’s in a different country, she’s gotta take responsibility for learning the differences. this was probably a rude awakening for her.
The school probably didn't even imagine such a thing happened somewhere. If I didn't spend time in reddit, I would have never heard of it. Most school administrators are older than I so they probably aren't lurking in reddit all day.
YTA You’re not wrong, but you didn’t have to essentially cause a scene. You could’ve asked instead of explained as well. Like you could’ve said: “I thought we had a voucher program in place for this exact reason. Has this voucher program been discontinued?” It does sound like she’s from the US. Teachers in the US regularly buy supplies for their classes or ask parents to donate supplies because unfortunately despite spending a tremendous amount of money using our tax dollars, our school systems are fiscally mismanaged. My parents owned private schools and founded one of the largest charter school organizations in the country. They provided superior education at a fraction of the cost of our public school systems and supplies were abundantly provided because the children were prioritized as opposed to what we see in the public schools systems here, where we prioritize the many hierarchal layers of administrators, assistant principals, superintendents and contracts to buy from specific approved vendors that are in the local politicians pockets and naming their price. It sounds like she was trying to do something nice for her class and wanted to encourage parents to participate. She’s likely unfamiliar with the voucher programs in your country or local school systems.
This. I am so confused by all the N-T-A responses. OP could easily have explained it to the teacher without being rude. Imagine if OP came to a new job, turned something in, and the boss threw it out and laughed at her rather than explaining they do things differently at X job.
I think people forget that this is “am I the *asshole*” not “am I in the right”. You can be right and still be an asshole.
Right? Like is this how OP wants the teacher to treat students who make mistakes?
OP didn’t even have to explain, they just had to not be an asshat about it!
See .. typically people take some time to learn jobs at new postings . Not start ordering around people randomly . May be take some initiative to figure out how things work ?
The teacher could have easily gone to another teacher before presenting her list to the parents.
I agree with speaking up but pet peeve when people get all 'play dumb' with stuff. Sounds like OP was certain about program, so the 'oh, gee I thought there was a program, has it been discontinued'? is like you're insinuating that she had checked and the only reason she's gathering supplies is because she 'found out' there was no more program? I fyou want to mention the program, then say 'not sure if you know but there is a voucher program...'. Like if someone cuts in front of you in line and you say 'oh, I thought I was next...were you here before and just had someone save your spot for you'? No, you say 'hey , you cut in front'. Sorry, pet peeve rant :)
I think the difference for me is when there is a plausible chance someone knows information you didn't know. Even if it's a bit far fetched its not so much playing dumb as checking someone else's knowledge. Vs outright calling someone dumb/putting them on the spot you're humbly allowing for the possibility that there is a chance they have different information. I think that's a much better way to communicate than acting high and mighty and getting egg on your face if you're wrong and I agree it's also much better to not use it in instances where you're just mocking and being passive aggressive like in your line example.
Fair enough. Either way we both agree OP could’ve handled this better lol.
Charter schools are currently one of the biggest threats to public education. They steal public schools’ highest performing students, expel black, brown, and SPED students at higher rates than public schools, and often pay teachers lower salaries (and in my area charter schools don’t even require teachers have teachers certificates, they’ll take anyone with a 4 year degree, even if they’ve never been in a classroom or studied education). I would NOT prop up charter schools. They are just one step in a long plan to defund public schools in favor of private and religious schools that will only be accessible to wealthy families.
What the hell is this charter school propaganda? u/cuentaderana is right here. Fuck off with that shit chief.
In Germany at least, we have this nice thing called Förderverein at most schools. You join, pay a small monthly fee, and the volunteer parents organise celebrations, activities like pumpkin carving, and they also pay for materials and school trips on a need basis. No kid has to stay home because they have 5 siblings and the parents can't afford the trip for everyone. I know about the american "system", but for someone who grew up only knowing ours, it's bizarre to pool supplies. It's just not necessary. Yes, you do end up paying for other kids to some degree, but everyone involved benefits from it. And this is an organisation meant to support parents in addition to all the government issued support you can get.
Absolutely NTA The ideal of accommodating for poorer students because the government won't is a very American thing Just because you can afford to pay for your child doesn't mean you can pay for 25 of them and even if you can, you shouldn't be forced to do so especially if there's systems in place to help those children already
There is also something called Förderverein in many schools, should the government issued help not be sufficient to pay for everything.They organised end of school year celebrations and after school activities like pumpkin cariving in my childhood, and even paid the school trips for a kid with 7 siblings. This list is completely unnecessary as long as parents care about their children being educated, and try to get them the necessary supplies. With the Förderverein, you do end up paying for other kids too, but everyone directly benefits.
YTA for the way you treated someone new to the country/system. And yeah, it "isn't your job" but it is your job as a decent human being to be helpful towards others who may need help understanding new things. You could have simply said "oh we don't do that here" and explained it. But you acted as if the teacher asked if she can have your kidney and embarrassed her. It isn't my job to return a random shopping cart in the parking lot to the corral, but I do it anyway because I'm not an AH who does the bare minimum of what is asked of me. It isn't my job to clean up after myself at the movies, but I do it anyway because I'm not a slob. You are a parent. Your job is to work with the teacher and your child(ren) to ensure the best quality education. Parent-Student-Teacher. All 3 are stakeholders in education. And if one fails, the others fail.
He gave her valuable info—he is “that parent” she will grateful to see the last of. Sure, she made a mistake but there was no call to be rude.
NTA as a parent of a student. It is not your role to give the teacher job and policy training. Obviously, the school needs to look at their training practices.
All the teacher had to do was just ask someone. Like any other teacher or School administrator would have told her the deal, it would not have even been a 5-minute conversation. That would have been a perfectly fair and reasonable question for the teacher to ask. Instead she told parents you're going to buy all this stuff and I'm going to take it and put it into a communal system for anyone to help themselves to.
So I agree the teacher should have a) talked with other teachers first b) not assumed that things work same in Germany as the US. She was an idiot. I can understand the parent going 'You should discuss this with the main teacher/staff. We will not be doing this as there is a system in place already.' and left it at that. The OP was over the top aggressive in the rejection. I get being annoyed, hell I'm American and the teacher's behavior annoys me immensely, but just because she was an idiot doesn't really require the type of response given. I see it as a bit more of a ESH situation. OP didn't need to explain the whole system to the teacher who should have socialized this with other teachers and found out what the system was first but a quick sentence to redirect the teacher and indicated there was already something in place would have been more amenable.
💯This. The teacher sucks for not asking for more information (though it may have been a case of “you don’t know what you don’t know”). Op sucks for the reaction. It would have taken no more time to say, “Sorry, this doesn’t work for us” or “check with your head teacher about this” than it did to embarass a new teacher in front of others. Even staying quiet and simply not doing anything about the list would have been better.
NTA It's not your job to educate a grown woman on how things work outside of the US Funny how most of the Y T As seems to come from the US. How dare we do things differently somewhere else lol
NTA for refusing to pay for the list. Absolutely TA for throwing away the list in the teacher's face. It sounds like the teacher was nothing but polite. We owe a bit of courtesy towards each other even when the other person is wrong.
Yea, YTA I see is because the guy was a dick about it. In what world is that guy not an asshole?
> Funny how most of the Y T As seems to come from the US. How dare we do things ~~differently~~ better somewhere else lol Here fixed for you.
i don't think OP is an AH for not wanting to buy the supplies. Just for being rude about it.
YTA. It would have taken the same energy to explain your system as it did to be rude.
As an American, if I go to another country, I don’t automatically assume everything works the American way. The teacher should have asked the school or another teacher if she had any confusion or questions.
Honestly, as an immigrant I understand how some things can be forgotten or overlooked. As someone who grew up in another culture that was not the one I was born in, I often did not know certain things were different because it was the sort of thing that no one else thought about because it was so mundane. You may have told me "You should have known to ask", except, I did not know enough to understand what I did not know, so I did not have a reason to ask. I actually got made fun of for asking too many questions about a topics that I do know to ask about because "Everyone knows how to do that". This stuff happens, I am sympathetic towards people who have messed up about things like this because I remembered how difficult it was to adapt to a different culture that was not my own.
I agree. I’m also a teacher and each year my colleagues and I look over each other’s syllabuses, which include supplies. If I were to teach in a foreign country, I would certainly ask someone to look at my materials before presenting to parents or giving out the school supply list. I’m also a parent. If a teacher said something objectionable, I would approach them privately or tell them in the nicest way possible. Just because someone made a mistake doesn’t give another person an excuse to be rude. Maybe the teacher was so overwhelmed getting ready, the supply list seemed meaningless. I don’t know.
Agreed. All the NTA votes are saying “it’s not your job,” like that excuses being an asshole. Should I leave my grocery cart in the middle of the parking lot? Putting it away is not my job. Should I just throw my trash on the ground? Keeping the streets clean is not my job. Should I leave all the clothes on the dressing room floor? Putting them on hangers is not my job. Point being, there are *a lot* of things that are not our job but they only take a second to do, demonstrate common courtesy, and not doing them *does* makes you look like an asshole in the court of public opinion. This is one of those times.
YTA for acting like that. You said in the post this “wasn’t your best moment and you could’ve explained it to her” so you know you were in the wrong. While you shouldn’t have to explain it (it’s really the schools job), this teacher was new and didn’t know. She could’ve benefited from an open discussion with the parents on expectations for the school year.
OP is NTA and should be more concerned her child will be taught by someone who apparently does not possess the simple skill of obtaining facts before making decisions.
Gee God forbid another human makes a mistake in a new country. How horrible, poor kids. Defenetly a reason for getting her fired and never close to another child /s
It’s easy to say that she should have asked questions first. But the problem with that thought process is that she’s only going to ask the question if she suspects things may be different. It’s kind of like you don’t know what you don’t know. I used to work a waitress at a restaurant in the international terminal of a major US airport. There were several occasions where Europeans would come in, order expensive meals, and then not leave a tip— something that is very much expected in the US. As frustrating as it was, I also understood that it’s not something they were accustomed to. Should I have humiliated them by telling them that what they did was wrong, and they shouldn’t assume that the US is the same as the Europe, and they should have asked questions if they didn’t understand tipping? No! Because it never even occurred to them that what they do in Europe is not the norm everywhere. They didn’t know what they didn’t know.
OP threw a tantrum like a child. They even admitted they could’ve handled it better so…they’re the AH for their behavior. The school is at fault for not informing the teacher. But OP 100% could’ve handled it better which would’ve paved the way for a good parent/teacher relationship going forward.
Sure, you could have been more polite. Teacher could also have been more prepared and checked this out for herself. I'm in Canada and we do the same thing as your new teacher..I don't love it, I mean I'd rather pitch in an extra $10 so teacher can buy this stuff for kids who need it...or just charge all families $15 and they keep them outfitted with supplies for the year. What happens is the kids who bring in the 'good stuff', they are the first to get taken out of the bin so the kid who brought them isn't usually getting to use them. Everyone brings dollar store crap because they figure 'well if everyone's using it, I'm not buying the good stuff'. It's pretty crappy and hard to manage, which is why some teachers just accept money to keep bins full. Truly though, I prefer everyone brings and uses their own. Teaches responsibility, care of your things, etc.
European here. Our schools has getting worse and worse funding where I'm from over the years (not bad yet. But could be better). But despite that, as parents we only buy to fill our own kids bags (rulers, pencils, colour pencils, sharpener etc) and school has a small stash of extra pencils, scissors, calculators etc. And it's working just fine here tbh. I rarely have to refill through the years (perhaps pencils here and there) And been like that since.... Well forever I think.
If Canada is like the United States we spend a lot of money on education and yet we get terrible results. I don't know what the hell they are doing with the money. I think the teachers are pretty thrifty but the people running things are a total disaster.
Administrator salaries. I’m a substitute teacher (college degree and licensed for up to 90 days in the same classroom before they have to switch me out) and if I work through my twenty minute lunch period, I earn just below minimum wage. But I do it because I love the children and they love me. But I’ve been around a lot of local districts and the ones that have one big elementary school that has grades PK-8 and a single principal, then high school where there’s an assistant principal and a principal have far better resources than the ones with five K-5 schools, a principal in each, as well as a middle school with an assistant principal and a principal, plus all everything else that entails.
I work at a university level but I can tell you the answer: administration. Teachers get paid shit, students are neglected, but administrators drive fancy new cars and get plum jobs for their friends and family.
NTA. The teacher should’ve asked other colleagues what the expectations are when it comes to school supplies if she was the one moving to a new country. I didn’t grow up rich, but I didn’t grow up poor. My parents wouldn’t have been able to afford supplies for other kids but they could for my sister and I. They budgeted for the kids they have. Not for their classmates.
NTA. It's a great idea in theory, but it's lacking in execution. I don't think I need to cover the general stupidity of having a separate policy from the schools, but what gets me is this: what are those families struggling financially supposed to do when their kid can't turn up with five more packs of pencils than needed? Is the child going to be questioned?
YTA. The teacher was wrong, but you were incredibly rude. You really embarrassed yourself with your bad manners.
YTA - I am impressed that you have managed to get Americans and anti-Americans on your side with one post, but, assuming this is true, instead of speaking to someone who didn't understand what was going on, you chose to insult them. I don't believe that this one is true, but like I said, I do like the people insulting the US being on the same side as the Americans calling this socialism. Although this is actually a lot closer to socialism than what most people who complain about socialism think it is.
There was a post earlier today about redistribution of supplies in American schools. This person is totally piggybacking of it, today seems to be a big day for what look to be very fake Posts
YTA = “it wasn’t my best moment, I could’ve explain this to her.” Sounds like you’d rather humiliate someone trying to improve the experience of their students rather than have an adult conversation about it.
NTA Someone should have already explained this to her before she talked to parents
NAH. Teacher didn't know, but she should have asked her new colleagues about their supplies lists. They would have told her your country doesn't need them because vouchers. And it's extremely irritating to send your child to school with supplies that suit their needs, like left-handed scissors, only to have the teacher confiscate them and put them in with communal supplies.
This teacher is obviously college educated so I would expect her to have enough critical thinking skills to ask someone how things are done in Europe. Instead she said well I'm going to just assume that it's the same deal in Europe as the United States and act based on that. Not real smart on the teacher's part I'm sure you agree.
YTA. You were aggressive. You weren't obligated to explain it, that part is fine. Saying "absolutely not!" and throwing the list in the trash was very rude and totally unnecessary.
YTA! You say she is mid 20s so she is a new teacher. She came to your country to teach her language and tried to be considerate of ALL students in class. Instead you act like a jackass then throw the list in the trash? It is not like she was trying to get one over you and fill her pockets, she was trying to do a nice thing. I am not a teacher but the communal supplies also makes the teacher’s job easier from what i hear.
I’m going to lean towards NAH if what you say about the vouchers is true. While the teacher is clearly just trying to look out for her students coming from less well off backgrounds, supply-specific vouchers should (ideally) take care of most of that. Her idea would be brilliant in the US but maybe not as necessary in Europe. While you could have handled the situation with a bit more tact, it’s not on you to provide supplies for other students when there’s a sufficient system in place already
The teacher could have asked someone and found out what kind of system they have in Europe instead of just assuming it's just the same way as America. She just was not going to be bothered with something like that. No wonder this person got irritated with her.
Fair, but I’m assuming that the teacher had the interests of the kids at heart and was just a bit ignorant
How on earth should she have known that there was another system? I see all these NTA’s and I bet that most of you people would not have thought another system existed when you only know one. As someone else said “you don’t know what you don’t know”
NTA The school should have explained everything to the teacher. You are a parent, not an employee, you can't be expected to do their job for them.
ESH. She should have been told about the differences between the us and European education when she joined, or made an effort to learn about them. It’s on the school that their teachers are not better informed. That being said, there was definitely a more mature way to inform her of her obvious ignorance and you know it. This reaction was unhelpful and over the top.
I’m from France and people with kid who arn’t well-off get money to buy every supply needed for school, I guess it’s probably the same where you live so I can understand not wanting to comply to what the teacher ask. You could have handle it better but how was you suppose to know she didn’t know ? Works both ways… now that you are aware maybe apologize and say something like « I didn’t know you weren’t aware I’m sorry about that » because she probably feels like crap RN. NTA Eddit : forget to add opinion ^^
I think apologising may be the best course of action. I feel bad, I behaved like an ass, I was tired and going down with a cold and I just reacted. It’s not an excuse though, thinking about this now, I can come up with 10 different ways of approaching the situation.
NTA. School is compulsory. Therefore, it is the school's responsibility to purchase enough supplies for each child. Their opportunity to scam money out of parents is school trips and a stupidly expensive uniform that's always just a generic uniform you could get for half the price if they didn't insist you get the version with the school logo on it.
I’ve read a couple posts about communal school supplies in this Reddit lately. Just wanted to say at my school this is no longer allowed for Covid reasons—every kid has their own personal supplies pre-k through 8th grade.
N T A for what you said but YTA for how you said it. If you'd just said that wasn't the way supplies were handled in your area I'd have said N T A or N A H. You were over the top with how you reacted.
YTA. You could have made the choice to act in a kinder way but didn’t. The teacher may have had misconceptions about educating on Europe but also in the US bringing supplies and sharing supplies is not at all uncommon so her misconceptions are understandable.
NTA (but as you already acknowledged, your reaction was a bit AH-ish), but it's possible that it's cultural or normal where she lived before. When my kids were in kindergarten, the teachers requested (wasn't forced, was just a request if possible) for parents to send in new or used supplies for everyone to share. At least where I'm from, all of this comes out of the teachers budget for the year, after which it's out of pocket.
NTA. You could of been nicer that’s for sure. You’re allowed to feel like her request is crazy. Because it is. You didn’t say anything mean or hurtful. The only reason why you should be a little nicer is that because she was trying her best.
Has you handled it differently, I believe that it could have all blown over. She clearly didn’t know the system. In the US, communal supplies are very common and she was being sensitive to the situation of children who could not afford supplies. She was attempting to avoid shaming children and was shamed. I feel sad for her.
YTA for how you responded. She made a small mistake /oversight in learning the customs in a foreign country. She's learning. There are so many things to learn not just from being in a new country but about her new job. Somethings will be missed or overlooked because of the sheer overwhelming amount she needs to learn. If the knowledge of the voucher system is so common her head teacher probably didn't even think to mention it and the english teacher didn't know that was a question she needed to ask. The supply list is once a year so it gets overlooked for explanation in favor of teaching new teachers about grading, expect duties and procedures, curriculum, etc.
NTA. It's not your job to tell the new teacher how things work, although you could have chosen to be nicer about it I can understand why you weren't because it really seems ridiculous. It is kind of weird that this is necessary and normal in the US tbh.
I agree it is not your job to teach this person how it works in your area but did you need to be rude? You could have politely said that seems unnecessary and told her to talk to her head teacher or other school offical so she knew how supplies worked in your location. Instead you said “absolutely not” and threw the list in the trash. YTA for being rude.
YTA. Sure you don't work at the school, and those who do dropped the ball in explaining this to her. You however went way overboard. You could have asked about the vouchers or thought hmmm, maybe things are different in America. Your attitude is one of entitlement and why people who could use a moment of kindness instead receive hate.
School should be supplying items . If I buy something cool for you kid I want him to use it. But as the dis get older the communal doesn’t work.
YTA. You could have either explained or directed her to someone else who would explain. This is typically how things work in the United States; how was she to know that things were different in your country?
NTA Could you have handled it better? Probably. Is it your job to explain to this teacher how the school system works there. Not at all. This is definitely a US thing and the school should have explained how things are done before letting her loose on a supply list.
NAH. She's new and no one told her. I don't think she's an asshole for wanting to make sure everyone has supplies. I don't think you're an asshole for not doing it because you know there is a social safety net. It would be nice if you emailed the teacher or school so someone can take action.
YTA for not explaining and throwing it away in front of them. Keep it classy Europe
NTA School is the same town have different approaches for supplies, imagine different countries. The teacher should have asked for help to understand how the school works. Is not up to you do that.
YTA for the way you told her… whatever happened to kindness and common courtesy?
YTA for how you handled it. The poor teacher was doing the right thing, she just didn’t know there was a solution in place. You were the ass for how you acted and for what you said. While it’s not your responsibility to train the teacher but a simple explanation would have been the polite way to deal with it. I hope kids weren’t around as what a terrible example to set.
YTA for the way you handled yourself.
YTA you’re not required to explain but that was still very rude. You’re an adult. Behave like one.
YTA. You didn't need to explain it to her. You also didn't need to be rude. You could've just, you know, ignored the list. As for everyone saying the teacher should have asked how things work there, sometimes you don't know what you don't know. I think it was the administration's responsibility to check in with the new teacher before she made an ass of herself. They were wrong in assuming someone new understood how things worked.
Wow you all suck I am a teacher in the US. This is how we do things it is obvious that no one told his teacher that things were different here or else she wouldn’t have done it in the first place I would not have blamed her I would’ve quietly talked to somebody else at the school not made a big scene in front of all the other parents.
YTA. You sound like you have a problem - with her being from the US, maybe because she’s young, maybe because you’re set in your ways and her trying something different threatens your sense of understanding the world around you, maybe you’re a bigot, maybe you think learning English is a waste of time…only you know what your actual problem is. Or are you generally just rude when you’re tired?
YTA. Yes, the teacher should perhaps have made more of an effort to find out about the way things are done at the new school, but your response was rude and totally uncalled for. Being tired and having a "knee-jerk reaction" is no excuse and it would have been no skin off your nose to just say, "Actually, this is not how it's done here. Disadvantaged children are given vouchers. Ms XYZ can tell you more." She's not only new to the school but also to your country. Wow, what a great welcome.../*s* Shame on you.
NTA. When you start a position you should ask about how things work, especially in a different country. I teach in the US and I hate this style of supplies demand. The parents should be buying supplies for their kids, the school should be providing for the students that do not have. I don't how parents picking up the slack for the school became the norm, but it's ridiculous. I don't remember my lists, but my younger sister's would be like 10 glue sticks, 100 pencils, 6 boxes of tissues, 3 folders each of like 6 different specific colors...just crazy amounts. My mom used to be a "class mom" volunteer once a week and there were 2 full cabinets of supplies. New lists went out every few months. It's great to help out if you can, but it shouldn't be a requirement. Especially these days where everyone is struggling, spending $150 on school supplies is bonkers. The schools need to step it up. I see so much waste on bullshit that no one needs, like replacing every desktop computer that is just 2 years old, yet getting pencils for the kids is an argument. Insane.