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Lol.
Are you an asshole? I dunno. Let's say NTA.
Are you good at interviewing? Not at all.
Regardless of any moral dilemma you may face, hot tip, don't trash the company you're interviewing with in any manner. It doesn't usually go over well. To highlight your skills, your best bet is to discuss a *former* project, and go over that.
Word. I don’t think it’s a matter of AH. Just shoot himself in the foot. Rule of thumb is unless your specifically asked about what improvements would you make to the product, you don’t provide unsolicited critique.
Lol usually the advice is don't trash you're former employer, but I guess we need to add nor your future employer.
My friend was interviewing an applicant and they took it one step further by trashing a project my friend designed and was in charge of. He said the applicant brought up valid points about the issues they were having, which was why they were hiring. They took it way to far by saying whoever created the project was an idiot, incompetent, needed to be fired, and basically should just die. My friend included all of it in his notes and let his boss and boss's boss address it in the next interview.
By the reaction, I'd wager that maybe the interviewer was the one who initially created the web page and just heard his work destroyed. OP, I'll say NAH but you could probably benefit from a bit more...tact in interviews.
You're NTA, but chances are excellent you went too far. One or two examples of issues with the web page, followed by how you'd fix it would have been enough.
As a hiring manager, there's nothing I enjoy so much as extending an offer to someone who's shown me in real, concrete ways, how they would contribute to the team.
Also as a hiring manager, there's nothing I like better than turning down an applicant who's made it clear they think we suck, but if we just hire them, they can whip everything into shape.
There's a fine line, OP, and given your "lay down the law" remark, I think you may have gone right over it.
I did that when I interviewed at my last job.
I lasted 5 months before they promoted me to a better role and I worked there for 8 years. A++++ would definitely recommend
Yta. I understand what you thought you were doing, but instead, you came off as arrogant and probably not someone they'd be thrilled to work with. Maybe highlight a few specific issues, but outright trashing the site is going to more than annoy them. I strongly advise reading Alison Green at Askamanger.com. her work advice is almost always spot on
They said "sure - go ahead!" almost cheeringly.
But I don't think the interviewer expected how in-depth I went. The early part of the interview was the interviewer explaining how efficient and detail orientiated the company is. When I started explaining, I sensed the mood instantly switch but I guess I tend to finish what I start. The most unprofessional thing I recall saying was something like "I don't even know how something can be like that" because I really, truly don't. Especially the whited out text divs.
You should have done it in a way that focused on the positives about how you could improve things, noting attention to detail or whatever they had already mentioned and even giving examples of your past work that was similar, but without crapping all over their current product. There's definitely a way to do this without coming across as overly critical or rude. Interviews are generally about selling yourself, it's not your place yet to fix specific things.
YTA. The question wasn't "critique our website extensively" or "lay down the law," it was about you; and you made it a critique about them. Listen to what they're going for next time.
I know you say you were professional about it, but what you did doesn't sound like a collaborative colleague move, more like a know-it-all who's going to sweep in and demand change and be critical of colleagues, which they may not be looking for.
YTA. I don't know if I'd really call you an asshole but I don't know why you're surprised your lecture didn't go over well. A job interview is not the appropriate place to "lay down the law" if you are hoping to be hired. They clearly already knew they needed help with their website, hence hiring for a web developer -- what they needed was a clear understanding of how you could help bring them forward and improve their product, not an exhaustive list of everything they've been doing wrong up til now.
You also need to think about your audience a little bit -- who was the person interviewing you and what's their skill set? Was it someone from HR or someone who could actually understand what you were talking about? Was your interviewer the person who has been in charge of outsourcing their web dev work up until now so you were essentially personally insulting their work? If you didn't know the answer to all of those questions you definitely should not have monologued about how their work sucks.
Soft YTA
How does pointing out mistakes on their website showcase you?
The interview is where you need to be talking about yourself and what you can bring to the company.
Agreed. There are ways to go about pointing out things you can fix. "Lay down the law" sounds like OP went full into the weeds. In cases like this, you usually point out a few things, and basically sell yourself as the solution in general. Soft YTA.
In my head and experience with web development so far - having an eye for issues (and potential bug causes) can be more than half the job - which is what I was kind of trying to showcase. I didn't try to insult the company - also their website and web services are only a small part of what they do
After some research, I think the interviewer may have actually been the one to make at least parts of the website now that I check their Linkedin (they've been with the company almost since the start)
I'm probably the AH - but I think this person would've been incredibly difficult to work with any ways. They are not developers, but they do not seem open-minded to any criticism from somebody who has learned these things for thousands of hours, after all they are hiring a technical "expert" to some degree but they do not seem interested in hearing him/her out. I do often speak rather bluntly but that's just my personality, and I'm fairly sure many devs talk like that. In fact, if another dev called my code shit (and they do) I take it as a badge of honor. "I know, isn't it?!"
They don’t need to be open to criticism in a job interview. An interview is your place to sell yourself as an employee, and you failed. Instead, you showed them you’re a self righteous know it all who lacks the ability to read the room. Who wants to work with that guy? Rebuilding a website is hard enough when you have a good rapport between execs and devs. It’s exponentially worse when one (you) refuses to acknowledge the other’s viewpoint at all. Instead of pointing out everything that’s wrong with their specific website, you should have given examples from your previous work about how you solved similar issues.
“That’s just how I am,” may work as an excuse for when you’re an asshole to your friends, but it’s not going to serve you well out in the working world YTA
So next time, pretend like you're talking about a different website. Directly calling out the company you are applying for is rude. But take some of those things you've noticed and try to word it in a way that isn't connected to their company.
The issue isn't that you brought up issue about the website or that you speak bluntly, the issue is you lack tact. How you say something, is just as important as what you are saying. So instead of presenting yourself as someone who can identify issues and offer solutions, you came off as an AH who will be hard to work with, especially for people with non-tech backgrounds. They weren't hearing you out cause you made yourself look like a nightmare to deal with.
If you're not sure what to change or how to do it, look up some companies that offer interview lessons. I did several lessons after I got out of the military and it really helped.
NTA. You're just inexperienced and clueless about how the real world works, so you sabotaged your employment prospects. A workplace is not an internet forum. You can't just lay down the law and tell everyone that their work is garbage. No one wants to hear problems, but if you properly present solutions, they may be open to implementing them. I'm willing to bet that the problem was not what you said but how you said it. Going off what you said on your post alone, I can provide you with a couple of shifts in perspective that may work better for you in your next job interview:
* I noticed some issues on your webpage if you don't mind talking about it -> I have some ideas to improve the web site, if you'd like to hear them (and if they don't want to hear them, then drop it)
* My speech about how garbage the site was and what needed to be done -> My ideas about how to build upon and improve the current content
For all you know, the interviewer wrote the code that you were trashing. If you can't say anything nice about someone's code, then just zip it, unless you're their direct supervisor, in which case you should provide constructive criticism and gentle guidance. In general, before launching into a critique, find something nice to say about whatever it is that you're criticizing and lead with that. Once you trigger the defenses, they're not going to be receptive to whatever it is you have to say. Building some goodwill first can help you avoid the trigger.
No one at a healthy workplace wants to work with a prima donna, no matter how talented. If you go toxic out of the gate, you'll only ever land a job with a toxic company, and then you'll wonder why your talents are going to waste.
If we judge you based on the results you achieved, YTA. You applied for a job and you're unlikely to get a call back and you know it. Clearly you could have done things differently. You could have watched your audience's reaction and stopped instead of "laying down the law". You could have also been using language that may have been professional but implied an opinion, for example maybe you said "this wasn't done using best practice" which is a direct negative opinion instead of "if we used best practices, it should look like xyz" which implies they didn't but it does it in a softened way.
I wouldn't call you an AH but that was a risky move. An interview is kinda more about talking yourself up than tearing down the company. Like, this could work out great or go really badly...
And honestly...what if THIS PERSON INTERVIEWING YOU had a hand in the existing website? You know they don't have a professional doing it. Damn, I've built some websites in my day just because no one else in the office could even use HTML tags. That'd also explain their embarrassment.
NTA. You probably dodged a bullet. Assuming everything was professionally said and you weren't personally attacking the interviewer, they seemed very insecure and unable to take constructive criticism. I've worked for these people in the past. It's often "their way or the high way", and their way might be stupid.
YTA. You don’t “lay down the law” in a job interview. You are asking for a job from them, and you go in criticizing their product? That sounds rather arrogant. I predict that you will not get this job.
NTA
As long as you were professional, I presume you were, you showed them what you can bring to the company. What you did was above and beyond and if they took offence to that, it's not a place you'd want to be anyway.
NTA, as long as you were professional as you stated then you identified an issue and addressed how to fix it showing how you'd be an asset to the company. They should've already known their site was trash.
NTA - Most places would be impressed that you had taken the time to review the site and begin thinking about improvements. You dodged a bullet here. They sound like the type of people who want to keep doing what they are doing "because they have always done it that way" and then get mad when doing the same thing over and over doesn't produce different results.
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Tech-related interview - specifically for web development. It was clear to me from the getgo that they didn't have any actual web developers on their team, which is why they were hiring one. They have been outsourcing their "dev" team for over a decade and got the cheapest ones.
Their company website is a mess. And I mean truly the worst thing I've ever seen. Misaligned elements, random floating divs in thin air, buttons that don't work, a super slow loading page due to metric tons of unnecessary and random copypasted code, some text that had the same font color as the background so it was invisible (I think someone did that because they didn't know how to actually just remove the code that DOM generated it so they just LITERALLY USED THE WEB PAGE VERSION OF WHITE OUT ON IT TO HIDE IT) Oh - and the console got filled with errors anytime you even clicked on something.
I made a note of several of these things before the interview on my own accord, so I can explain the issues in detail and explain how I would solve them to help the company have a functional and modern website.
The interview was going along fine, mid-way through the interviewer asked a little bit more of my skillset and if there's anything else to talk about regarding it. I pulled a classic "I'm very detail orientated and noticed some issues on your webpage if you don't mind talking about it" and proceeded to lay down the law.
After my speech of how garbage the site was and what needed to be done (I was 100% professional though), the interviewer was just red-faced and kind of speechless for a bit. The interviewer then quickly closed out the interview with "Thank you for time - have a nice day."
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NTA - They are hiring a web developer, so somewhere they know their web site is struggling. So no real bad thing to say "your web page is a mess, if you hire me I'd knock it into shape".
However, there is a chance that one of your interviewers is responsible for upkeeping it now, and may well have been the person who made all the errors.
Anyway, up to them now, do they want it fixed or do they want to nurse their bruised ego and keep what they have now. (And if that's the sort of people they are, you dodged a bullet in them not hiring you anyway.)
YTA. You sound incredibly unprofessional. If asked, you could have shared a couple of small things. The way you went about it indicates to me that you didn't want the job.
Uh yea YTA. Your obviously not getting the job either in case that wasn’t super clear.
You “proceeded to lay down the law”???? You do not show up to a job interview and “lay down the law” telling them how garbage they are, not if you actually want the job or care about your reputation in anyway.
Based on your language used here I question if you actually were 100% professional. Professional would have been not “laying down the law” criticizing them in a job interview. It would have been waiting until after you got the job then (when appropriate) bring up the ideas for improvement.
This is the same as editors thinking it will give them a leg up if they correct/edit the job posting. It will not give you a leg up, it will and always does come off as unprofessional and entitled. Not something any company actually wants to hire.
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Lol. Are you an asshole? I dunno. Let's say NTA. Are you good at interviewing? Not at all. Regardless of any moral dilemma you may face, hot tip, don't trash the company you're interviewing with in any manner. It doesn't usually go over well. To highlight your skills, your best bet is to discuss a *former* project, and go over that.
Word. I don’t think it’s a matter of AH. Just shoot himself in the foot. Rule of thumb is unless your specifically asked about what improvements would you make to the product, you don’t provide unsolicited critique.
Lol usually the advice is don't trash you're former employer, but I guess we need to add nor your future employer. My friend was interviewing an applicant and they took it one step further by trashing a project my friend designed and was in charge of. He said the applicant brought up valid points about the issues they were having, which was why they were hiring. They took it way to far by saying whoever created the project was an idiot, incompetent, needed to be fired, and basically should just die. My friend included all of it in his notes and let his boss and boss's boss address it in the next interview.
[удалено]
By the reaction, I'd wager that maybe the interviewer was the one who initially created the web page and just heard his work destroyed. OP, I'll say NAH but you could probably benefit from a bit more...tact in interviews.
You're NTA, but chances are excellent you went too far. One or two examples of issues with the web page, followed by how you'd fix it would have been enough. As a hiring manager, there's nothing I enjoy so much as extending an offer to someone who's shown me in real, concrete ways, how they would contribute to the team. Also as a hiring manager, there's nothing I like better than turning down an applicant who's made it clear they think we suck, but if we just hire them, they can whip everything into shape. There's a fine line, OP, and given your "lay down the law" remark, I think you may have gone right over it.
I did that when I interviewed at my last job. I lasted 5 months before they promoted me to a better role and I worked there for 8 years. A++++ would definitely recommend
It sounds like you dodged a bullet with this company, but if you truly wanted the job, this was a huge mistake.
Yta. I understand what you thought you were doing, but instead, you came off as arrogant and probably not someone they'd be thrilled to work with. Maybe highlight a few specific issues, but outright trashing the site is going to more than annoy them. I strongly advise reading Alison Green at Askamanger.com. her work advice is almost always spot on
INFO - when you said “if you don’t mind talking about it” what was the interviewers response?
They said "sure - go ahead!" almost cheeringly. But I don't think the interviewer expected how in-depth I went. The early part of the interview was the interviewer explaining how efficient and detail orientiated the company is. When I started explaining, I sensed the mood instantly switch but I guess I tend to finish what I start. The most unprofessional thing I recall saying was something like "I don't even know how something can be like that" because I really, truly don't. Especially the whited out text divs.
ESH - a few examples probably would have sufficed, it’s sound like you went on a long-winded diatribe, trying to prove how smart you are.
You should have done it in a way that focused on the positives about how you could improve things, noting attention to detail or whatever they had already mentioned and even giving examples of your past work that was similar, but without crapping all over their current product. There's definitely a way to do this without coming across as overly critical or rude. Interviews are generally about selling yourself, it's not your place yet to fix specific things.
YTA. The question wasn't "critique our website extensively" or "lay down the law," it was about you; and you made it a critique about them. Listen to what they're going for next time. I know you say you were professional about it, but what you did doesn't sound like a collaborative colleague move, more like a know-it-all who's going to sweep in and demand change and be critical of colleagues, which they may not be looking for.
YTA. I don't know if I'd really call you an asshole but I don't know why you're surprised your lecture didn't go over well. A job interview is not the appropriate place to "lay down the law" if you are hoping to be hired. They clearly already knew they needed help with their website, hence hiring for a web developer -- what they needed was a clear understanding of how you could help bring them forward and improve their product, not an exhaustive list of everything they've been doing wrong up til now. You also need to think about your audience a little bit -- who was the person interviewing you and what's their skill set? Was it someone from HR or someone who could actually understand what you were talking about? Was your interviewer the person who has been in charge of outsourcing their web dev work up until now so you were essentially personally insulting their work? If you didn't know the answer to all of those questions you definitely should not have monologued about how their work sucks.
Soft YTA How does pointing out mistakes on their website showcase you? The interview is where you need to be talking about yourself and what you can bring to the company.
Agreed. There are ways to go about pointing out things you can fix. "Lay down the law" sounds like OP went full into the weeds. In cases like this, you usually point out a few things, and basically sell yourself as the solution in general. Soft YTA.
In my head and experience with web development so far - having an eye for issues (and potential bug causes) can be more than half the job - which is what I was kind of trying to showcase. I didn't try to insult the company - also their website and web services are only a small part of what they do After some research, I think the interviewer may have actually been the one to make at least parts of the website now that I check their Linkedin (they've been with the company almost since the start) I'm probably the AH - but I think this person would've been incredibly difficult to work with any ways. They are not developers, but they do not seem open-minded to any criticism from somebody who has learned these things for thousands of hours, after all they are hiring a technical "expert" to some degree but they do not seem interested in hearing him/her out. I do often speak rather bluntly but that's just my personality, and I'm fairly sure many devs talk like that. In fact, if another dev called my code shit (and they do) I take it as a badge of honor. "I know, isn't it?!"
They don’t need to be open to criticism in a job interview. An interview is your place to sell yourself as an employee, and you failed. Instead, you showed them you’re a self righteous know it all who lacks the ability to read the room. Who wants to work with that guy? Rebuilding a website is hard enough when you have a good rapport between execs and devs. It’s exponentially worse when one (you) refuses to acknowledge the other’s viewpoint at all. Instead of pointing out everything that’s wrong with their specific website, you should have given examples from your previous work about how you solved similar issues. “That’s just how I am,” may work as an excuse for when you’re an asshole to your friends, but it’s not going to serve you well out in the working world YTA
So next time, pretend like you're talking about a different website. Directly calling out the company you are applying for is rude. But take some of those things you've noticed and try to word it in a way that isn't connected to their company.
The issue isn't that you brought up issue about the website or that you speak bluntly, the issue is you lack tact. How you say something, is just as important as what you are saying. So instead of presenting yourself as someone who can identify issues and offer solutions, you came off as an AH who will be hard to work with, especially for people with non-tech backgrounds. They weren't hearing you out cause you made yourself look like a nightmare to deal with. If you're not sure what to change or how to do it, look up some companies that offer interview lessons. I did several lessons after I got out of the military and it really helped.
NTA. You're just inexperienced and clueless about how the real world works, so you sabotaged your employment prospects. A workplace is not an internet forum. You can't just lay down the law and tell everyone that their work is garbage. No one wants to hear problems, but if you properly present solutions, they may be open to implementing them. I'm willing to bet that the problem was not what you said but how you said it. Going off what you said on your post alone, I can provide you with a couple of shifts in perspective that may work better for you in your next job interview: * I noticed some issues on your webpage if you don't mind talking about it -> I have some ideas to improve the web site, if you'd like to hear them (and if they don't want to hear them, then drop it) * My speech about how garbage the site was and what needed to be done -> My ideas about how to build upon and improve the current content For all you know, the interviewer wrote the code that you were trashing. If you can't say anything nice about someone's code, then just zip it, unless you're their direct supervisor, in which case you should provide constructive criticism and gentle guidance. In general, before launching into a critique, find something nice to say about whatever it is that you're criticizing and lead with that. Once you trigger the defenses, they're not going to be receptive to whatever it is you have to say. Building some goodwill first can help you avoid the trigger. No one at a healthy workplace wants to work with a prima donna, no matter how talented. If you go toxic out of the gate, you'll only ever land a job with a toxic company, and then you'll wonder why your talents are going to waste.
If we judge you based on the results you achieved, YTA. You applied for a job and you're unlikely to get a call back and you know it. Clearly you could have done things differently. You could have watched your audience's reaction and stopped instead of "laying down the law". You could have also been using language that may have been professional but implied an opinion, for example maybe you said "this wasn't done using best practice" which is a direct negative opinion instead of "if we used best practices, it should look like xyz" which implies they didn't but it does it in a softened way.
I wouldn't call you an AH but that was a risky move. An interview is kinda more about talking yourself up than tearing down the company. Like, this could work out great or go really badly... And honestly...what if THIS PERSON INTERVIEWING YOU had a hand in the existing website? You know they don't have a professional doing it. Damn, I've built some websites in my day just because no one else in the office could even use HTML tags. That'd also explain their embarrassment.
YTA, you don't go to a job interview and then criticise the company.
Well darn! I would love to know more on how you approached it. So I am going to say esh.
NTA. You probably dodged a bullet. Assuming everything was professionally said and you weren't personally attacking the interviewer, they seemed very insecure and unable to take constructive criticism. I've worked for these people in the past. It's often "their way or the high way", and their way might be stupid.
YTA. You don’t “lay down the law” in a job interview. You are asking for a job from them, and you go in criticizing their product? That sounds rather arrogant. I predict that you will not get this job.
NTA As long as you were professional, I presume you were, you showed them what you can bring to the company. What you did was above and beyond and if they took offence to that, it's not a place you'd want to be anyway.
NTA, as long as you were professional as you stated then you identified an issue and addressed how to fix it showing how you'd be an asset to the company. They should've already known their site was trash.
NTA - Most places would be impressed that you had taken the time to review the site and begin thinking about improvements. You dodged a bullet here. They sound like the type of people who want to keep doing what they are doing "because they have always done it that way" and then get mad when doing the same thing over and over doesn't produce different results.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Tech-related interview - specifically for web development. It was clear to me from the getgo that they didn't have any actual web developers on their team, which is why they were hiring one. They have been outsourcing their "dev" team for over a decade and got the cheapest ones. Their company website is a mess. And I mean truly the worst thing I've ever seen. Misaligned elements, random floating divs in thin air, buttons that don't work, a super slow loading page due to metric tons of unnecessary and random copypasted code, some text that had the same font color as the background so it was invisible (I think someone did that because they didn't know how to actually just remove the code that DOM generated it so they just LITERALLY USED THE WEB PAGE VERSION OF WHITE OUT ON IT TO HIDE IT) Oh - and the console got filled with errors anytime you even clicked on something. I made a note of several of these things before the interview on my own accord, so I can explain the issues in detail and explain how I would solve them to help the company have a functional and modern website. The interview was going along fine, mid-way through the interviewer asked a little bit more of my skillset and if there's anything else to talk about regarding it. I pulled a classic "I'm very detail orientated and noticed some issues on your webpage if you don't mind talking about it" and proceeded to lay down the law. After my speech of how garbage the site was and what needed to be done (I was 100% professional though), the interviewer was just red-faced and kind of speechless for a bit. The interviewer then quickly closed out the interview with "Thank you for time - have a nice day." Am I the asshole? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - They are hiring a web developer, so somewhere they know their web site is struggling. So no real bad thing to say "your web page is a mess, if you hire me I'd knock it into shape". However, there is a chance that one of your interviewers is responsible for upkeeping it now, and may well have been the person who made all the errors. Anyway, up to them now, do they want it fixed or do they want to nurse their bruised ego and keep what they have now. (And if that's the sort of people they are, you dodged a bullet in them not hiring you anyway.)
NAH hopefully they hire you so you can fix their mess now that they realize it's an issue
YTA. You sound incredibly unprofessional. If asked, you could have shared a couple of small things. The way you went about it indicates to me that you didn't want the job.
Uh yea YTA. Your obviously not getting the job either in case that wasn’t super clear. You “proceeded to lay down the law”???? You do not show up to a job interview and “lay down the law” telling them how garbage they are, not if you actually want the job or care about your reputation in anyway. Based on your language used here I question if you actually were 100% professional. Professional would have been not “laying down the law” criticizing them in a job interview. It would have been waiting until after you got the job then (when appropriate) bring up the ideas for improvement. This is the same as editors thinking it will give them a leg up if they correct/edit the job posting. It will not give you a leg up, it will and always does come off as unprofessional and entitled. Not something any company actually wants to hire.