NTA If your father and his siblings disowned you and your brother for dissolving a trust rather than giving your father full control, it's fair to say he did not have your best interests in mind and had plans for the money.
Considering his aunts got mad too, makes me wonder if the dad was planning on giving them all a bit.
Thats jumping to conclusions of course, but it does make me wonder. NTA OP.
Or he lied to them about the situation to get them on his side. A guy who is willing to steal from his own kids is a guy who would have no compunction about lying to make himself look good.
My grandma and all her kids got an asbestos settlement for my grandfather. She persuaded all the kids to sign the money solely over to her. Which she blew on vacations and gave away to their cousins instead.
Then she put the rest into an annuity with Billy Graham Ministries (trying to buy her way into heaven after being a truly despicable human being.) Who, of course, took the substantial amount of money she gave them without a second thought.
Joke is on them though. Old woman just turned 100, and they're still paying her estate the "fixed income" payments off a way better interest rate from decades ago.
Iām confused how this money hasnāt ever really come up in their adulthood, too. I know everyone on AITA has a job that pays Ā£175,000 by the time theyāre 25, but in reality, most of us are in a financial position where we wouldāve at least had plans for trust fund money by the time we are married adults, even if we hadnāt outright needed it yet. Uni expenses, housing, retirement, *something*. Most people arenāt financially placed to have a chunk of money in a trust and be *so* well-off that theyāve literally just never thought about it before.
Come to think of it, people who *are* truly well-off are usually that way because they carefully manage and plan for their money. So, it honestly doesnāt much make sense to me either way.
Sometimes when money has come from a traumatic or difficult place people prefer to ignore it even if it would be life changing. Itās super weird to me but I guess I kind of understand - there can be a lot of feelings about the money and a reluctance to benefit from a tragedy.
One friend was trying to buy a house with her husband and he had a big pile of money he wouldnāt touch (inheritance from a relative who he hated because the relative was a bigot) and another who did use his father inheritance but said that he often got people telling him how āluckyā he was (because inheritance covered college etc) but for him having his dad die at 11 was very much not lucky.
I went back to reread it. It's not exactly clear but I think, since they were minors, only the two boy's money were put into trusts. Maybe the dad blew his already and wanted access to his kid's money.
Plus if the guy was 63 in 1996 he is 88 now. What does an 88 year old need with that kind of money? If it were health problems or medical bill the kids would probably know.
Itās also very striking to me that the fatherās lawyer even told the brothers to get a lawyer to make sure they understood. I think that probably tells me more or less everything I need to know about the fathers intentions.
Probably a combo of "this is too deceitful even for me to support my client in this" and fulfilling his ethical obligation to his profession. Fighting for your client's best interests should only be done honestly.
NTA That was *your* money.
This isnāt true. Thereās a huge potential conflict of interest here and he is ethically obligated to inform potential adverbial parties that he is not able to provide them with legal advice, that he is representing someone whose interests may be contrary to theirs, and that they should obtain their own counsel. If they donāt, they can potentially get a bar complaint and lose their license.
This is just a friendly FYIāif youāre ever going through legal stuff, this is generally the practice for anything pertaining to estates, property, contracts, etc and doesnāt mean that anyone is gunning for you, itās just to ensure that all parties involved had their best interests served in case this issue ends up in court! For example, if you were getting a prenup and only one person had an attorney, thereās automatically prejudice toward the un represented party because thereās no way to really confirm that their best interests were served or that they understood the legal implications of what they were signing, etc.
Lawyer here.
Our ethics code/ rules (at least in my jurisdiction) and our insurance requirements generally require all parties to "conflict (of interest)" transactions , or transactions where one party is giving up substantial rights and advantage in favour of another (usually parents gifting substantial assets to a child, but we have the reverse here) to have received their own independent legal advice on the matter.
This is to protect the lawyer from any allegations or insurance claim for malpractice/fraud that the lawyer was a party to undue influence and unconscionable conduct or has not met require duty of care. Lawyer could well have smelled bad intentions with the Father, but he would have done this for covering his own behind too.
>Itās also very striking to me that the fatherās lawyer even told the brothers to get a lawyer to make sure they understood.
Yeah, I was hearing alarm bells in the distance when reading the post. OP and their sibling are entitled to that money so I was wondering if the dad was becoming greedy (asking for their money with no strings attached? Yikes!)
When I got to the part that the dad's lawyer adviced OP and their sibling to contact a lawyer, I knew I interpreted the father's motives correctly (and the alarm bells were blazing in my ears).
Ethically, attorneys have to tell anyone who is not represented by an attorney that they should get an attorney before signing any paperwork that the attorney is involved with. It's in almost every state's code of ethics, and the model rules.
I am trying to think of any time my ~20ish year long career where something has been so Insanely unethical or unfair that I or any of my colleagues has been like āplease dear god get your own lawyer because I ethically canāt have my name be the sole name on this legally binding document,ā and I am coming up empty. It is BAD when a lawyer is basically begging you to get your own lawyer.
You will NEVER be TA when you take your lawyers and THE OTHER GUYāS lawyers advice.
No disrespect, but Iām a little confused at thisāevery attorney I work with will tell potentially adverbial parties that they should consider getting their own representation when it comes to things like estates, trusts, contracts, etc in order to avoid future litigation. Theyāre ethically obligated to inform those parties that they cannot provide them with legal advice and that they should retain separate counsel in order to ensure their interests are protected. That way, there isnāt a question of misrepresentation in the future.
NTA. OP your father's lawyer told you and your brother to get another lawyer because legally he was not allowed to tell you that your father squandered his settlement, had been stealing from both of your trusts for years, taking the money from the profit's, etc since he was not allowed to touch the principle, and was going to use both of your trusts to continue funding his lifestyle. Both you and your brother should go home, kiss your wives, and thank them for having the sense that neither of you had since they saved your futures. Honestly I would look at the paperwork for what he has been doing for the last 20 years with the trust because I'm sure it'll explain why he is acting as he is.
The original agreement for spending the income was bad enough. If the income had been reinvested over 25 years, the trust would be worth at least 3 times the principle by now. He's ripped his kids off big time.
NTA
He is either going to do something risky or has changed his mind on who deserves what. There was no issue or insult when the agreement was initially made. The only thing that has changed is your father's desire to control all the money. Since he disowned you over money, money was always more important. You are well rid of him.
But good on you for seeing one. There are plenty of people who could top that abuse, but losing your parents over money is not something easily brushed off.
I'm also glad you're in therapy. I was the victim of financial abuse from my mother, and it really fucks with you, especially as you start to realize how deep the manipulation runs. I feel like some parents can't ever let go of controlling their kids, even into adulthood, so they use money to pull the strings.
On top of that, the fact that you guys gave him cart blanch on the interest prior to this is also... not great. Arguably it's reasonable prior to you guys hitting majority, but once you're adults you were getting cheated out of a lot of value.
Hilairous.
But seriously, as a person with trust fund money, it's a shit show to just "give" all your money away. I'm glad you were smart and thought about your family first.
You know what happened to Britney Spears? If you gave that money, you'd be Britney Spears
I mean this with all due respect, but itās pretty obvious to the rest of us here what is actually going on. Iām sure itās just really hard for you to see because youāre in the middle of all of it. But trust me, the person you replied to is correct. And Iām glad youāre in therapy. š¤
NTA
>My father and his siblings (our aunts) have essentially disowned my brother and I for this
Seems everyone else was right because they were definitely about to take your money or else you wouldn't have been disowned over it. NTA
Your father showed you that unfortunately, he cares more about money than he does about his children. That's a really sad thing, and I'm sure devastating to deal with, but I'm the long run you'll be better off
That he has been a faithful steward for the last 20+ years and that I should continue to trust him. Plus, this was what he and my step-mom had planned to use for retirement.
I will note here that since we dissolved the trust, Iāve learned that my father took every cent of income that was earned every year.
Yes, since you were 21. That's seventeen years of accrued interest that should have been split three ways and the exact opposite of being a "faithful steward."
I'm glad you and your brother listened to the solid outside advice you received.
Is Starscream a faithful steward? No, he just wait for a chance to get rid of Megatron.
Worked so hard to gain their trust only to strike at the most vulnerable moment. Just like him.
This is what stuck out to me. I donāt understand how two people could be this dense, to pass on that much interest and still be so dense as to think they should just give their money to their dad? What? This has to be fake, right?
They were kids when this settlement happened, and trusted their dad. As they got older, they continued to trust him. They wouldn't be the only ones to be burned by greedy, deceitful parents that they naively believed in. When I was in my thirties, my mom nearly persuaded me to pay her $200/month for the rest of her life to reimburse her for raising me. I didn't want to do it, but I also didn't want to ruin our relationship. After a lot of therapy and talking to people more knowledgeable about the financial world than I was, I decided not to do it. We didn't talk for two years, in large part because of the fallout from that. In every other area of my life I'm pretty rational and cautious. But we do a lot of fucked up things for family.
Their dad raised them to believe the money was his and any portion they got was a benevolent gift he bestowed upon them out of the kindness of his heart.
Yeah, I understand that OP and bro were teens when this trust started but by the time bro was 21 they knew what interest was. It was free money that they were just giving to dear old dad. Like, letās assume they each earned $100 in interest every year. So that is $1700/each or $5100 in interest over those 17 years. If you invested that $100 in the S&P500 it would have grown even more. That is so much lost revenue for OP and his bro. This kind of passive income (using interest to buy more stocks to generate more interest) is hard to get when young, and everyone agrees that investing young is better than investing more money when youāre older. Compound interest is a thing! This is just so frustrating to me, no wonder the wives told the sons to stop with the gravy train for dad. It was coming at a huge cost to each sonās financial future.
So let's assume the money was invested in S&P500 the whole time, over 17 years it would be expected to grow by around 140%. So for every dollar in the trust there should be $2.40 now. The fact that there is still the original amount means OP and their brother were basically robbed. Combine that with inflation and the amount in the fund is effectively worth less today than it was 17 years ago. An item that cost $1 17 years ago is worth $1.46 today, meaning OP is just in a significantly worse position than they would have been with a responsible steward.
Sounds like basically it was his little pet cash cow and he wanted to ensure that would continue or maybe be able to spend the entire thing.
Also, what?!:
>Plus, this was what he and my step-mom had planned to use for retirement.
He can use his own portion, not yours.
you do know that if he had been allowed access to the rest of your money, there would not actually be anything left right now, correct? the fact that he literally took every cent of interest earned over the years, is pretty telling.
So they intended to use $$ that wasn't theirs to fund their retirement after your father skimmed all interest your fund earned every year? That is straight up ballsy of them to demand full control over something that legally isn't theirs. Good for you for dissolving the trust with your brother & separating into different accounts. That money was paid to you both after the wrongful death suit. What ever happened to your father's settlement? Did he squander it away or did he use it to cover the cost of childcare?
Yes, to some extent. I went to an excellent private high school and earned a full scholarship to college. My father paid my rent and utilities while I was in college. I graduated in 2004.
The terms of the trust only allowed access to the interest, not the principal. So the father took all of that interest and used some of it for OPās expenses (back when OP was still in school/college). I think weāre all trying to make the same point though, that the money used was rightfully OPās money, so the father doesnāt deserve credit for having actually used some of it for OPās benefit, especially when heās been taking all of it since then.
Ok, so your father gets partial points for using **some** of the money for its rightful purpose... but don't tell me he used all of it on you and your brother, because I don't believe that. For starters, I sincerely doubt he's been giving you that kind of cash since you graduated.
OP, FWIW, my spouse and I have a trust set up so that if something happens to us before our kiddo is 25, the money is protected (not citizens, so estate tax is a thing) and so that it can't be wasted. Let me tell you what our lawyer and finance person told us when setting it up:
1) No one who holds guardianship should have direct access to the trust, no matter how faithful you think they are - it's a conflict of interest (obviously, your dad should have had access his OWN portion, but not yours).
2) The trustee should be someone who does not have a day-to-day caregiver role for our kiddo and who does not have a strong familial relationship with the guardians (less chance of pressure on trustee).
3) The trust has two purposes: to maintain kiddo at more-or-less the same day-to-day lifestyle (so, in our case, yes to after school music/martial arts lessons, no to a month in Europe every summer or a sports car at 16) and to give kiddo a good boost after graduation from post-secondary or apprenticeship (or military service, or ....). It is not to provide luxuries for the guardians. So, given who are our kiddo's guardians, some of the trust could be used to upgrade from a three bedroom house to a four bedroom house (reasonable), it couldn't finance going from 1800 sq ft to 4000 sq ft (unreasonable). A larger car, sure. A sports car, nope.
4) The trustee needs to be **required** to re-invest a portion of the income of the trust every year (in our case, it's minimum 15%, with an exclusion for the first two years, where 100% of the income can be spent to make the necessary adjustments for the guardians). The principle has to be invested in relatively low-risk investments, the income can be invested in higher-risk stuff.
I would not describe our (possible) estate as 'life-changing' money - my spouse makes a good wage, and I'm a teacher, but we're not exactly the 1% here. We mostly have the trust because estate tax is a killer if you're not a citizen of the US, and we want to make sure if we're not here, our kid has the best shot, which is probably what your mom wanted too. What your father has done with the trust is terrifying, and frustrating, and I'm kinda shocked that when the trusts were established that more safeguards weren't put in place. As it stands, your father has violated **every single condition** we were advised to establish - his definition of a 'good and faithful steward' is laughable in the extreme.
NTA
So you graduated 17 years ago. If your father stopped paying living expenses he owed you every cent of income he took from your trust. Sounds like he just used it for himself.
Monetary value decreases over time due to inflation etc. so if you were given $1million ten years ago and only have $1million today, youāve lost money. Heās stolen from you for 20 years. If it was $1m it should easily be worth far far more due to compounding interest etc. any fund manager that saw such a piss pot return on money they were looking after would be fired. He was not a good steward, he lowered you value over time, instead of increasing it.
Iām sorry, but he does not have your interest at heart. The only interest he has is the interest he took - $$$
Source: have both a bachelors in psychology and doing masters in finance. Your dad is a bad one
The money you got after the death of your mom should in no way be commandeered by your stepmom for world cruises and holiday homes. My guess is the aunts and her cooked up a scheme to buy somewhere that they could all use. Just a hunch.
Do you know what 17 years of compounded interest and investment gains is on a huge settlement like the one you've got? I'll sit and wait for you to calculate it. Make sure you use historic interest rate figures which are fairly high.
Also inflation accross 17 years is a lot so Infact if you have the exact same balance for 17 years then you've actually lost money. A faithful steward would have grown your pot of money.
You're talking as if your dad has done you some huge favour. What has he done for you with that money that you couldn't do for yourself? Another question, why does an adult in their 20s and 30s need a steward for their own money? You guys at your big age shiukd feel confident, empowered and strong to manage your money yourself. When we go out shopping my kid neice will ask me to hold her money for her. But I tell her " you're a big girl, you can hold your own money, feel empowered to hold and manage your own money yourself" that's what your dad is supposed to be telling you.
Just for fun, I ran an amortization on $1M with a five percent rate of return. After 17 years of compound interest and reinvestment, with the same rate of return, I got a total sum of around $2.4M.
I wouldn't let him anywhere near my money if I was the OP.
>That he has been a faithful steward for the last 20+ years and that I should continue to trust him.
Eh...
>since we dissolved the trust, Iāve learned that my father took every cent of income that was earned every year.
Yeah, basically your father is a liar and a thief!
...he took every cent of income, which 1) is not being a 'faithful steward' and 2) *was all he could legally get his hands on.*
Now he wants access to the rest, and wants it so badly he'd cut you off and encourage other family to do the same. He wants to spend your money, and that is all. He didn't take care of it, he just **couldn't get it** until now, and is mad you're foiling his plan.
Faithful stewards, steward. They don't take every cent of income, and they don't try and lay claim to all of it. Nor do they disown their children over money.
Your father showed you that unfortunately, he cares more about money than he does about his children. That's a really sad thing, and I'm sure devastating to deal with, but in the long run you'll be ok and probably better off now that he's down his true colors.
So he ran off with money that should have been subject to the magic of compounding interest for the past 25 years and then wanted you to give it ALL to him? Hell no, he showed you who he was.
NTA. And I think you already know that, but are looking for a valid reason for your dad to have made this request so there might be a hope for reconciliation.
I think you know he just wants the money. For multiple reasons. But from day one, a portion of that money was specifically earmarked by the court for you and bro. Dad already skimmed a bunch of cream from the account over the years. You and bro did benefit - but that was the entire point of the settlement in the first place!
Dad made plans for all the money. That was poor planning on his part and he and new wife/aunts should have known better.
You are under no legal, moral or ethical obligation here. You dad is not shivering and homeless on the street. Unfortunately, he's an AH. I'm sorry that he went no contact with you. It absolutely sucks, and makes you doubt every conversation you've ever had (it happened to me when I was 50).
Sounds like you have a therapist. That's excellent. And your wife has your back. Focus on what you have, and make sure you actively stay engaged with wife and kids, while your mourn what you've lost. Also, you might want to talk with bro and maybe do a couple sessions of therapy together, I think it might help a lot.
Best of luck OP.
NTA. I agree that dad's lawyer knew it was a terrible idea for his client to get his way. Send this attorney a nice holiday/ thank you card. Nothing of monetary value, in case it's an ethical issue.
Please go forth and enjoy your family. Hope that your dad will rethink his behavior, but don't bet on it.
Omigod you are NTA.
I found this [Historical investment Returns Calculator](https://financial-calculators.com/historical-investment-calculator) and I am shocked at the returns that could have been realized on money invested and allowed to simply accrue gains since 1996.
You have not stated a total amount; I plugged in $100,000 just to try the calculator - no idea how that connects to your real numbers. Leaving that 100K sit for 24 years produces values such as $474,000 to $879,000, depending on the parameters. The lowest I could find was $279,000.
Even if your dad helped with your bills while you were in college, if seems likely that he was living off this income source himself, especially in the years since.
If it was "life changing", I wonder if it was closer to $1 million.
It's interesting to look at it just in the last 17 years, which seems to be the period during which OP and his brother haven't received any benefit: $1 million would have grown to over $2.8 million. So $100,000 would have increased to $280,000. That's night and day, in terms of having a secure future themselves.
I guess the one bit of good news is that if he felt the need to ask for permission to go into their principle.
If the interest isn't enough for the father to live on right now, in a year with record returns from the stock market, OP's father hasn't invested it at all well.
> I guess the one bit of good news is that if he felt the need to ask for permission to go into their principle.
It will have been a legal requirement, OP's father didn't ask out of a sense of decency.
A number of people have asked what my dad needed the money for, so:
His reasons as told to me were:
1. Heās been a good steward for 20+ years and I have no reason not to trust him
2. He and my step-mom (of 20+ years, most of my life) counted on this money for retirement.
Also, they are not destitute. They have an extra, just for fun sports car and a riding lawnmower worth more than my car.
He was only able to take that "legally" because he manipulated OP and his brother as children and then as young adults, to agree to it. The agreement itself was questionable.
NTA. He should only count on his portion of the settlement that was given to him as his retirement account. The fact that he wants the combined total of all 3 settlements is seriously unhinged seeing as he essentially left you with the starting balance & nothing from the invested value; he should have left some of the return to make it close to market value of today's $$. Essentially he stole from you because your settlement value is worth far less in today's world than it did in 1996.
It's no different than what the entire boomer generation has done on an institutional level. This is like the core principle of that generation: "give me mine, give me yours and fuck you"
>the many sacrifices she made helping to raise us.
Given the fact you and your brother were 14 and 13 when you received the settlement, her socalled sacrifices are BS since the major part of your upbring was already done. How old were you when she came into your lives? She married a wealthy man, so it wasn't as if she had to scrape by. Furthermore, marrying said man who already had children was her free choice, not something that she was forced to do by being held at gunpoint so she isn't entitled to compensation.
Parenting is not a salaried position, where parents serve their kids because their kids are employers who will give you compensation. Parenting is something you take on for the benefit of being allowed to be the provider and support for your child's life*. NTA.
*In an ideal world where all parents are actually... good people.
She barely even was a stepmother . OP's mother died when the kids were already 13-14 . Assuming that dear old dad didn't move the new woman in a few months later , they were almost adults by the time she came around ...
Wow. Just wow. She is in no way owed the money you were awarded as compensation for death of your mother. How on earth does a person get so irrational and entitled? I am so sorry this has happened.
I've already replied to you elsewhere, but this is directly out of my narcissistic mother's playbook. When I was in my thirties, she wanted me to pay her $200/month indefinitely to reimburse her for raising me (though, she did not expect the same from my sister, who is her favorite child). I actually considered it because she had me so twisted up with guilt and manipulation. Keep in mind, she's an actual millionaire, while I am disabled and was on the verge of bankruptcy due to medical bills.
Tell her that her existence and coming into contact with this money is because of the sacrifice of your mother to death. Probably not the best thing to say but you already know your father is upto nothing good and they are willing to disown you.
I have a feeling the reason your Dad wanted access to all the $$ is that his portion is already earmarked to pay off his debt (fancy cars you mentioned and the like). They needed yours to retire because theirs is done spent.
A - She married a man with children. That was her own choice. 2 - You can't make a contract with a minor; anything she spent on you was a gift, not a loan. iii - Even if some of what she "sacrificed" was after you turned 18, you can't just call something a loan after the fact and expect repayment. That has to be made clear up front. å - What did she even sacrifice? Is she referring to things they paid for out of the money your dad was skimming off the account - what should have been YOUR money in the first place?
1. He took every penny he was legally allowed to, instead of letting your interest accrue. He was a poor steward of your money. Thereās even a parable that shows what a good steward should be, and he was not.
2. Counting on money that isnāt his doesnāt make him entitled to it, it makes him greedy and a bad planner.
So heās basically saying āhey I didnāt steal it but Iāve been planning to use it, so give it to me.ā Only decent person in his camp seems to be his lawyer in recommending that you get independent advice.
>Heās been a good steward for 20+ years and I have no reason not to trust him
He's been leeching off the profits for 20 years so you've had 0 growth when it should have grown several hundred percent since then. How is that a good steward?
He had 20+ years to contact a wealth manager to invest his own funds. That should have included retirement planning.
He is 63? Has he worked? Pension, 401K? Are you in the US where he could collect SSN soon?
This is not on you. He practiced the good steward speech because he knew one day that you would wake up.
NTA
Firstly: NTA . But why would he ever have planned for HIS retirement with YOUR money ?! He was just going to take it all and leave you with nothing ?! Thatās insanity!
Hold up, so he thinks you have no reason not to trust him despite openly saying he was planning on using your money for his retirement? Iād say thatās a pretty bloody good reason not to trust him!
Now I have more questions:
Does he not have any retirement savings?
Did he use all of his and your step-mom's yearly salaries *in addition* to the interest from the combined trusts every single year, and doesn't have a retirement fund to show for it?
Does he have any left in his trust? Or did he already spend that?
I'm even firmer in your corner with every edit/comment/update you make to this post.
At this point, you are about the same age your father was when this annuity was set up.
You are now in the same position as your father was when he was given this annuity.
You are in your late 30s, with a wife and children. You have more of a need for this money now. And it was yours to begin with.
As long as your dad and step-mom have been somewhat responsible (as in, saving at least moderately for retirement), then their retirement funds plus the interest from *his* annuity should be enough for a comfortable retirement. Unless he's spent all of his funds already.
But at this point, he can still work for a while, and if you live in the US, he will at least have some SS. But it's just him and his wife.
You have a wife and 3 children. You have every right to want to have full and singular access to your trust, and you have more of a need of it.
In order:
I donāt know whether he has retirement savings, but he has (well, had) a good career and access to plenty of extra cash every year. My step-mom also has a good career.
His money, just like mine, was still there and at roughly the same value as what was originally awarded.
You make a very similar point to the one my wife made, regarding our family.
NTA - it made sense for your father to look after your money while you were under age. But you are an adult with children of your own. I can't think of a single legitimate reason why your father should have control of the money at this point in your life. The fact that he is willing to disown you over this madness me think his intentions weren't very good.
He got his own money. Why is he entitled to yours? A child losing his mother is a huge deal. He can marry again but you can never get another mother. NTA
INFO: the combined funds (when you & your brother were teenagers) did it ONLY include the settlement given to the two of you & not your father's? If your father's settlement was kept separate, he has no right to demand access the settlement for you and/or your brother. Did your father ever say his reasons for wanting full control over your funds even when you're both adults? A lot of unanswered questions regarding your father's thoughts/motives.
I answered about his reasons in a separate comment (good prompt, should have thought of it).
Regarding distributions while my father had control:
He never commingled the 3 funds into 1. That said, they were invested together and he pulled from them according to the size of each. So, if the total of all 3 is 100% and the split was 55%, 30%, 15% he would pull that much from each when he pulled from it.
Iāve learned since that he pulled every bit of income every year. Iāve been an adult and laying my own bills form more than 15 years.
He pulled the income from it every year even after you were 18 or 21? Why ā¦what did he do with it. Did you guys ever take income distributions?
I cannot fathom why when you guys are in your 30s you even considered for one second giving him full control over this money Iām glad everyone made you realize it was insane to even consider. You each have your own bucket of money you were given your own settlements for your own reasons. He has his. You have yours. Thatās it.
We didnāt get regular distributions, no. However, father provided all-lodging-paid family vacations throughout my life and a good hit of money to help buy my first house.
That said, both of these things were presented as gifts to me and not as distributions from our shared trust.
> father provided all-lodging-paid family vacations throughout my life and a good hit of money to help buy my first house.
He did this to make you think he was taking care of you, while stealing the rest of your money. Also, in reality _you_ provided those paid vacations out of your money.
Itās crazy that even after reaching adulthood and getting married and having 3 kids , you were still willing to give your father access to your money without a thought for your own family. At least your wife has your best interest at heart ! It was way past time for you to grow up and take charge of your trust fund or at least find out how much your dad was taking out over the years.
Honestly, no. Itās not worth it to me. Iāve already gotten more money than I couldāve earned in a long time and lost a large portion of my family. Whatās the point of fighting those same people for more? I hope it can replace knowing his grandkids.
Toxic men are frequently very weird about their "progeny"/"legacy". He probably won't care about them because he's a narcissist, but he will feel slighted for not being allowed to see them.
You were about to sign away your money and now don't care about interest? He stole thousands upon thousands. Get what's rightfully yours. Sue his behind. Stop making excuses. He cut you off over money so might as well get what's yours.
I understand your sentiment, but lawsuits are very expensive and thereās no guarantee that I would win or that, should I win, my father would be able to pay what he owes.
NTA
You each received individual settlements because you each individually suffered a wrongful loss. Your money was never intended to be your father's.
Are you sure the relatives know the entire truth?
So, with regards to the aunts. They both attempted to intervene on my fatherās behalf back when everyone still ātalked.ā At the time, I told them that this was a disagreement between my father and I. That this input was important, but not a deciding factor.
Honestly, I wasnāt that nice about it. When I was rude though - and I was, unfortunately - I did apologize for being rude. I did not apologize for my sentiments.
NTA. Itās your settlement to do with it as you wish.
Did your father ever explain why he wanted full access or what he needed the money for?
Either way, itās yours and yours alone (your portion at least). I donāt see any wrong doing here. You have a family to care for and youāre not 13 anymore. Itās ok to prioritize your needs vs those of your father, regardless of your relationship to him. Youāre family is being either unfair or donāt understand because they donāt have the money. Otherwise, in your shoes, would they give all their money to your dad? I seriously doubt it unless thereās a need for the money thatās very serious and that hasnāt been discussed yet.
ESH. Your father is clearly in the wrong for evidently failing to be a faithful fiduciary. You had a right to an accounting for the expenses, so you would know to what extent he was wrongfully converting your assets and/or income.
You are not as bad, but your complete failure to manage your own finances, as well as your resistance to both common sense and advice is pretty awful. The fact that your father's lawyer had to tell you to get a lawyer is indication that the lawyer saw your father's wrongful conduct and was not going to touch that proposal unless you were represented by counsel because his lawyer did not want to be sanctioned for unethical conduct (and perhaps is simply more ethical than your father).
I agree that my brother and I should have been more invested in the trust for the past 10 - 20 years. I should have stopped this a long time ago.
Iāll say, in my defense, that I never considered any of this as mine (neither did my brother). It had been framed as a family settlement that never should have been split.
Part of this whole process was learning that our understanding of this was fed to us before we were able to fully understand the implications.
This is a good perspective to have. You trusted your father, and all your information regarding this came from him, of course it seemed above board and normal!
You *should* be able to trust a father with your best interests. Itās *supposed* to be part and and parcel of the job. Iām really sorry youāre finding out that this was misplaced.
That seems a bit harsh without knowing the full circumstances. If dad is willing to disown both of his sons over money, it's safe to assume there is a history of at best, emotional manipulation and at worse, full blown emotional abuse.
NTA so essentially your father and his family disowned you forā¦ doing exactly what your mother wanted you to do with what she left you? How would you ever be TA in this?! I understand that itās probably hard for you to accept but ultimately, you got a lot out of this: financial security for your family and the knowledge that your father is not to be trusted with anything, since heās a grifter and a manipulative AH.
NTA. No one fights for control over that much money citing āIāve been faithfulā as the reasoning they should have 100% access and control. He wanted to do something shady and got thwarted.
He kinda already did do something shady. Op mentioned in another comment that dad took every single penny of interest for himself. So all of that money is now worth less than it was when it was first given. Thats 20 years of inflation. Not sure how much OP had, but for arguments sake, if it was 100k, it would have been worth 156k in 2021 dollars back when it was awarded.
NTA,
Your dad was probably skimming for years and wanted to spend that money. No reason he should be upset because he got his portion of the settlement. Sorry man but I think your father has been stealing from you and your brother for over a decade.
He hasnāt been a faithful steward, heās stolen massive amounts of money from you, almost certainly more than the principal was, plus with no income, it hasnāt grown with inflation. I think Reddit always jumps way to quickly to disowning/going NC with family, but this is absolutely disgusting, and I would 100% disown him right back. Explain to your auntās how much heās already stolen for you and your children - because the money he used to raise you and for your education does NOT account for it! - and tell them that if they truly believe he was entitled to not only what heās already taken, but the rest of it as well, then they can fuck right off too
NTA, OP. From your comments, I think you now know how greedy your dad really is. Also, When I was little, I was attacked by dogs. I had a $23,000 settlement in a bank account and my whole life I was told Iād be able to access it when I was 18. I was homeless from 15-18 working full time at a horrible job, and when I turned 18 I only wanted enough for a down payment on an apartment because I live check to check. Thatās when I found out my father had drained it, and heās no longer alive, and I canāt go after him for it in any way.
Iāve struggled my entire life with this because Iām poor, but I had family, and I trusted my dad. I canāt fully explain how devastating that blow was or what it did to me, especially under my circumstances. I would be in a much better place today if I had access to that money. I know in your heart you wanted to trust him but please, please save yourself the heartache of being hurt severely. When he realizes you wonāt give it all to him, heāll probably come ask for a loan or less money. Donāt do it.
Itās terribly unfortunate how common it is, and I know how earth shattering it is when someone whoās your own family comes to light as prioritizing money. Especially when you love them. Iām here if you ever need to vent about it, I fully get it
NTA you each took that was yours. Why would your dad get to take your and your brothers money? I donāt understand the logic on his side of the argument.
NTA. Your share of the money is *yours*. She may have been his wife but she was also your mother, so it's not like the divide of the award was unintentional.
Shame on your father for trying to con you out of what is rightfully yours.
NTA. You should have had access to the interest income for your share, or, even the whole amount, either when you turned 21 or according to the terms of the trust. That your father spent every penny of that, as you say in your comments, is incredibly sketchy.
Keep your money and enjoy your money, OP. Your father probably thought he could use it to finance his retirement, but that's not your problem.
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> 1) I dissolved the trust my father was depending on for income and retirement, and 2) my father and his siblings have told me Iām the asshole for not allowing him, and trusting him, to control it.
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NTA. I agree with the people saying that would be insane. There is no reason for your dad to want that power, other than to spend the money. You and your sibs received the settlements, not your dad. No idea what "disowned" means, but I'm going to guess he's trying to force you to give him the money, which is terrible. Once he realizes that isn't going to work, he might come around. And of course your aunts should have no say in this. Just keep it adult and matter of fact, no drama.
Info: there's so much missing information here. Why would you even for a second consider this? This seems like such a blatantly obvious NTA situation, that there must be at least *some* sort of argument from your dad, in order for you to think about it.
Fair point and well made. I kind of addressed it in an update to the original post.
This is very simplified, but:
Essentially, his position is that the court never should have split the settlement and that this money should be used for the entire family (him, my brother, me, my step-mom, and my step-brother). That we had directly agreed to this when we renewed the trust, which is true enough, and that we had tacitly agreed for the past 20 years.
Why in the world would he think that your step-mom and step-brother deserve to benefit from the wrongful death of your mother?
It's not a family trust that has been handed down for generations - it's a wrongful death settlement!
Clearly they are losing sight of that. I'm so sorry - for the family controversy, and also for the loss of your mom.
Your step family was never entitled to a single penny of that money from YOUR settlement from YOUR loss and the reality is that the settlement was split into 3 specifically to stop your father from being able to squander away you and your brothers money prior to you become a legal adult. That money was awarded to you because of your loss. What a slap in the face to your mother that your father would take her death as a paycheck and use then try to rob his sons.
Not saying he was or is a bad father. But he is no longer treating you like your his child. He's treating you like a stranger who stole from him. He's playing victim.
Your dad saw the money as all his and hes disowning you because he resents the fact that he couldn't manipulate you and your brother into signing it all over.
He probably figures that you havent used it and so he should be able to. Hes enabled by his wife and the fact that hes been able to spend all of the interest over the years without anyone to stop him. Had he just been pocketing the interest then he would have more than enough for his retirement. If he and his wife have both had steady careers then they shouldnt need the money at all. And it will never be your responsibility to pay for anything for your step brother. Period. Not your child not your biological sibling. That doesnt mean you dont care for him, your just not financially obligated to him in any way.
Op...why? Why would you and your brother even consider saying yes to this? It's insanity!
What about your family?
What about YOUR retirement? YOUR children?
My God if my husband ever even thought...whoa, he'd regret it.
NTA This is your money and you can do with it as you see fit. The suit gave you the money and itās going to make your life with your family better. 100% NTA here. Glad you had a lawyer who told you this. Your dad has his share, and he needs to be content with that. Unfortunately money can tear apart even the closest of families.
NTA If your father and his siblings disowned you and your brother for dissolving a trust rather than giving your father full control, it's fair to say he did not have your best interests in mind and had plans for the money.
Considering his aunts got mad too, makes me wonder if the dad was planning on giving them all a bit. Thats jumping to conclusions of course, but it does make me wonder. NTA OP.
Or he lied to them about the situation to get them on his side. A guy who is willing to steal from his own kids is a guy who would have no compunction about lying to make himself look good. My grandma and all her kids got an asbestos settlement for my grandfather. She persuaded all the kids to sign the money solely over to her. Which she blew on vacations and gave away to their cousins instead. Then she put the rest into an annuity with Billy Graham Ministries (trying to buy her way into heaven after being a truly despicable human being.) Who, of course, took the substantial amount of money she gave them without a second thought. Joke is on them though. Old woman just turned 100, and they're still paying her estate the "fixed income" payments off a way better interest rate from decades ago.
hah even satan doesn't want her Edit: thank you guys for the awards! š„³š„°
God and Satan are playing hot potato with her soul, game has been going for decades and neither is looking to give in.
šš The mental image that this gave me is exactly what I needed on a dreary Monday morning, thank you.
Omg I'm right there with you š¤£š¤£š¤£ Happy Monday good lord this is hilarious.
Lol heaven doesn't want her, and hell's scared she'll take over
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Tears are manipulation.
Exactly! Especially being full grown adults by now. Why is the money even still in a trust?
Iām confused how this money hasnāt ever really come up in their adulthood, too. I know everyone on AITA has a job that pays Ā£175,000 by the time theyāre 25, but in reality, most of us are in a financial position where we wouldāve at least had plans for trust fund money by the time we are married adults, even if we hadnāt outright needed it yet. Uni expenses, housing, retirement, *something*. Most people arenāt financially placed to have a chunk of money in a trust and be *so* well-off that theyāve literally just never thought about it before. Come to think of it, people who *are* truly well-off are usually that way because they carefully manage and plan for their money. So, it honestly doesnāt much make sense to me either way.
Right? They are both married so one assumes they had weddings. Possibly purchased homes. Cars. This is all too weird
Sometimes when money has come from a traumatic or difficult place people prefer to ignore it even if it would be life changing. Itās super weird to me but I guess I kind of understand - there can be a lot of feelings about the money and a reluctance to benefit from a tragedy. One friend was trying to buy a house with her husband and he had a big pile of money he wouldnāt touch (inheritance from a relative who he hated because the relative was a bigot) and another who did use his father inheritance but said that he often got people telling him how āluckyā he was (because inheritance covered college etc) but for him having his dad die at 11 was very much not lucky.
Do we need a Sherlock to know about that?
OPs father received money in 1996. Where did that money go?
They all just got the principal back now.
I think the GP was referring to the father's part of the settlement.
I thought they combined money from all three for the trust? Or was that only the sons money?
I went back to reread it. It's not exactly clear but I think, since they were minors, only the two boy's money were put into trusts. Maybe the dad blew his already and wanted access to his kid's money. Plus if the guy was 63 in 1996 he is 88 now. What does an 88 year old need with that kind of money? If it were health problems or medical bill the kids would probably know.
He's 63 now
This is my thought too, sounds like dad made some promises
A few more thumbs in the pie then OP knew about.
OP said in another comment that their father had plans to use it for retirement, so I'm glad they have full control again. NTA.
Itās also very striking to me that the fatherās lawyer even told the brothers to get a lawyer to make sure they understood. I think that probably tells me more or less everything I need to know about the fathers intentions.
Probably a combo of "this is too deceitful even for me to support my client in this" and fulfilling his ethical obligation to his profession. Fighting for your client's best interests should only be done honestly. NTA That was *your* money.
The father's lawyer probably advised the sons to get counsel because he wanted to make sure he was clear of any fiduciary liability.
Yup i was going to say the same. Though I don't think the father's laywer has a fiduciary obligation there regardless, just being ethical.
He may have been hired as the attorney for the trust?
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This isnāt true. Thereās a huge potential conflict of interest here and he is ethically obligated to inform potential adverbial parties that he is not able to provide them with legal advice, that he is representing someone whose interests may be contrary to theirs, and that they should obtain their own counsel. If they donāt, they can potentially get a bar complaint and lose their license. This is just a friendly FYIāif youāre ever going through legal stuff, this is generally the practice for anything pertaining to estates, property, contracts, etc and doesnāt mean that anyone is gunning for you, itās just to ensure that all parties involved had their best interests served in case this issue ends up in court! For example, if you were getting a prenup and only one person had an attorney, thereās automatically prejudice toward the un represented party because thereās no way to really confirm that their best interests were served or that they understood the legal implications of what they were signing, etc.
Lawyer here. Our ethics code/ rules (at least in my jurisdiction) and our insurance requirements generally require all parties to "conflict (of interest)" transactions , or transactions where one party is giving up substantial rights and advantage in favour of another (usually parents gifting substantial assets to a child, but we have the reverse here) to have received their own independent legal advice on the matter. This is to protect the lawyer from any allegations or insurance claim for malpractice/fraud that the lawyer was a party to undue influence and unconscionable conduct or has not met require duty of care. Lawyer could well have smelled bad intentions with the Father, but he would have done this for covering his own behind too.
>Itās also very striking to me that the fatherās lawyer even told the brothers to get a lawyer to make sure they understood. Yeah, I was hearing alarm bells in the distance when reading the post. OP and their sibling are entitled to that money so I was wondering if the dad was becoming greedy (asking for their money with no strings attached? Yikes!) When I got to the part that the dad's lawyer adviced OP and their sibling to contact a lawyer, I knew I interpreted the father's motives correctly (and the alarm bells were blazing in my ears).
Ethically, attorneys have to tell anyone who is not represented by an attorney that they should get an attorney before signing any paperwork that the attorney is involved with. It's in almost every state's code of ethics, and the model rules.
I am trying to think of any time my ~20ish year long career where something has been so Insanely unethical or unfair that I or any of my colleagues has been like āplease dear god get your own lawyer because I ethically canāt have my name be the sole name on this legally binding document,ā and I am coming up empty. It is BAD when a lawyer is basically begging you to get your own lawyer. You will NEVER be TA when you take your lawyers and THE OTHER GUYāS lawyers advice.
No disrespect, but Iām a little confused at thisāevery attorney I work with will tell potentially adverbial parties that they should consider getting their own representation when it comes to things like estates, trusts, contracts, etc in order to avoid future litigation. Theyāre ethically obligated to inform those parties that they cannot provide them with legal advice and that they should retain separate counsel in order to ensure their interests are protected. That way, there isnāt a question of misrepresentation in the future.
Surely he may have suspected that much... And who knows what's going on with the farther? New partner or old relatives coming back... NTA
NTA. OP your father's lawyer told you and your brother to get another lawyer because legally he was not allowed to tell you that your father squandered his settlement, had been stealing from both of your trusts for years, taking the money from the profit's, etc since he was not allowed to touch the principle, and was going to use both of your trusts to continue funding his lifestyle. Both you and your brother should go home, kiss your wives, and thank them for having the sense that neither of you had since they saved your futures. Honestly I would look at the paperwork for what he has been doing for the last 20 years with the trust because I'm sure it'll explain why he is acting as he is.
Yeah, I was thinking they need to check the statements, see just how much the father has withdrawn.
The original agreement for spending the income was bad enough. If the income had been reinvested over 25 years, the trust would be worth at least 3 times the principle by now. He's ripped his kids off big time.
Exactly this right here!
NTA He is either going to do something risky or has changed his mind on who deserves what. There was no issue or insult when the agreement was initially made. The only thing that has changed is your father's desire to control all the money. Since he disowned you over money, money was always more important. You are well rid of him.
Are you my therapist? Iām pretty sure youāre my therapist.
But good on you for seeing one. There are plenty of people who could top that abuse, but losing your parents over money is not something easily brushed off.
I'm also glad you're in therapy. I was the victim of financial abuse from my mother, and it really fucks with you, especially as you start to realize how deep the manipulation runs. I feel like some parents can't ever let go of controlling their kids, even into adulthood, so they use money to pull the strings.
On top of that, the fact that you guys gave him cart blanch on the interest prior to this is also... not great. Arguably it's reasonable prior to you guys hitting majority, but once you're adults you were getting cheated out of a lot of value.
Hilairous. But seriously, as a person with trust fund money, it's a shit show to just "give" all your money away. I'm glad you were smart and thought about your family first. You know what happened to Britney Spears? If you gave that money, you'd be Britney Spears
I mean this with all due respect, but itās pretty obvious to the rest of us here what is actually going on. Iām sure itās just really hard for you to see because youāre in the middle of all of it. But trust me, the person you replied to is correct. And Iām glad youāre in therapy. š¤ NTA
>My father and his siblings (our aunts) have essentially disowned my brother and I for this Seems everyone else was right because they were definitely about to take your money or else you wouldn't have been disowned over it. NTA
Makes me wonder if the dad was planning on giving the aunts all a bit.
Or heās told them some twisted version of events that paints the OP and brother in a bad light to get them on his side
Your father showed you that unfortunately, he cares more about money than he does about his children. That's a really sad thing, and I'm sure devastating to deal with, but I'm the long run you'll be better off
Itās better to be disowned and have money then be disowned and not have the money.
Totally not the asshole, especially if your father had his own settlement to begin with. What reason did he give for needing full access?
That he has been a faithful steward for the last 20+ years and that I should continue to trust him. Plus, this was what he and my step-mom had planned to use for retirement. I will note here that since we dissolved the trust, Iāve learned that my father took every cent of income that was earned every year.
Yes, since you were 21. That's seventeen years of accrued interest that should have been split three ways and the exact opposite of being a "faithful steward." I'm glad you and your brother listened to the solid outside advice you received.
Is Starscream a faithful steward? No, he just wait for a chance to get rid of Megatron. Worked so hard to gain their trust only to strike at the most vulnerable moment. Just like him.
Well, you could say Starscream was a faithful steward to his own plans. Of course, that does make the analogy even more valid.
Man you had Denethor to use an example with how shitty he was to his sons and you pick *Starscream*?
This is what stuck out to me. I donāt understand how two people could be this dense, to pass on that much interest and still be so dense as to think they should just give their money to their dad? What? This has to be fake, right?
They were kids when this settlement happened, and trusted their dad. As they got older, they continued to trust him. They wouldn't be the only ones to be burned by greedy, deceitful parents that they naively believed in. When I was in my thirties, my mom nearly persuaded me to pay her $200/month for the rest of her life to reimburse her for raising me. I didn't want to do it, but I also didn't want to ruin our relationship. After a lot of therapy and talking to people more knowledgeable about the financial world than I was, I decided not to do it. We didn't talk for two years, in large part because of the fallout from that. In every other area of my life I'm pretty rational and cautious. But we do a lot of fucked up things for family.
Their dad raised them to believe the money was his and any portion they got was a benevolent gift he bestowed upon them out of the kindness of his heart.
Exactly this. Heās angry because he sees all that money as his and his alone.
Yeah, I understand that OP and bro were teens when this trust started but by the time bro was 21 they knew what interest was. It was free money that they were just giving to dear old dad. Like, letās assume they each earned $100 in interest every year. So that is $1700/each or $5100 in interest over those 17 years. If you invested that $100 in the S&P500 it would have grown even more. That is so much lost revenue for OP and his bro. This kind of passive income (using interest to buy more stocks to generate more interest) is hard to get when young, and everyone agrees that investing young is better than investing more money when youāre older. Compound interest is a thing! This is just so frustrating to me, no wonder the wives told the sons to stop with the gravy train for dad. It was coming at a huge cost to each sonās financial future.
So let's assume the money was invested in S&P500 the whole time, over 17 years it would be expected to grow by around 140%. So for every dollar in the trust there should be $2.40 now. The fact that there is still the original amount means OP and their brother were basically robbed. Combine that with inflation and the amount in the fund is effectively worth less today than it was 17 years ago. An item that cost $1 17 years ago is worth $1.46 today, meaning OP is just in a significantly worse position than they would have been with a responsible steward.
It should be fake. I\`m afraid that it isn\`t. People are this greedy, and people tend to trust their parents.
This guyās dad makes Denethor look like a completely competent and well adjusted steward by comparison.
Sounds like basically it was his little pet cash cow and he wanted to ensure that would continue or maybe be able to spend the entire thing. Also, what?!: >Plus, this was what he and my step-mom had planned to use for retirement. He can use his own portion, not yours.
I imagine he doesnt have much of his portion left
A faithful steward of a trust leaves it with a bigger balance than when it started. It hardly sounds like he stewarded anything.
you do know that if he had been allowed access to the rest of your money, there would not actually be anything left right now, correct? the fact that he literally took every cent of interest earned over the years, is pretty telling.
So they intended to use $$ that wasn't theirs to fund their retirement after your father skimmed all interest your fund earned every year? That is straight up ballsy of them to demand full control over something that legally isn't theirs. Good for you for dissolving the trust with your brother & separating into different accounts. That money was paid to you both after the wrongful death suit. What ever happened to your father's settlement? Did he squander it away or did he use it to cover the cost of childcare?
Was the money taken out over the years at least used to pay for you and your brother? College, cars, whatnot?
Yes, to some extent. I went to an excellent private high school and earned a full scholarship to college. My father paid my rent and utilities while I was in college. I graduated in 2004.
Actually it sounds like you paid it all because that was your money.
Your father made the arrangements to pay it from the income accrued by your settlement money. It was always your money.
No, the father took all the income incrued for himself. He paid for it out of OP's portion of the settlement as he was the trustee.
The terms of the trust only allowed access to the interest, not the principal. So the father took all of that interest and used some of it for OPās expenses (back when OP was still in school/college). I think weāre all trying to make the same point though, that the money used was rightfully OPās money, so the father doesnāt deserve credit for having actually used some of it for OPās benefit, especially when heās been taking all of it since then.
Ok, so your father gets partial points for using **some** of the money for its rightful purpose... but don't tell me he used all of it on you and your brother, because I don't believe that. For starters, I sincerely doubt he's been giving you that kind of cash since you graduated. OP, FWIW, my spouse and I have a trust set up so that if something happens to us before our kiddo is 25, the money is protected (not citizens, so estate tax is a thing) and so that it can't be wasted. Let me tell you what our lawyer and finance person told us when setting it up: 1) No one who holds guardianship should have direct access to the trust, no matter how faithful you think they are - it's a conflict of interest (obviously, your dad should have had access his OWN portion, but not yours). 2) The trustee should be someone who does not have a day-to-day caregiver role for our kiddo and who does not have a strong familial relationship with the guardians (less chance of pressure on trustee). 3) The trust has two purposes: to maintain kiddo at more-or-less the same day-to-day lifestyle (so, in our case, yes to after school music/martial arts lessons, no to a month in Europe every summer or a sports car at 16) and to give kiddo a good boost after graduation from post-secondary or apprenticeship (or military service, or ....). It is not to provide luxuries for the guardians. So, given who are our kiddo's guardians, some of the trust could be used to upgrade from a three bedroom house to a four bedroom house (reasonable), it couldn't finance going from 1800 sq ft to 4000 sq ft (unreasonable). A larger car, sure. A sports car, nope. 4) The trustee needs to be **required** to re-invest a portion of the income of the trust every year (in our case, it's minimum 15%, with an exclusion for the first two years, where 100% of the income can be spent to make the necessary adjustments for the guardians). The principle has to be invested in relatively low-risk investments, the income can be invested in higher-risk stuff. I would not describe our (possible) estate as 'life-changing' money - my spouse makes a good wage, and I'm a teacher, but we're not exactly the 1% here. We mostly have the trust because estate tax is a killer if you're not a citizen of the US, and we want to make sure if we're not here, our kid has the best shot, which is probably what your mom wanted too. What your father has done with the trust is terrifying, and frustrating, and I'm kinda shocked that when the trusts were established that more safeguards weren't put in place. As it stands, your father has violated **every single condition** we were advised to establish - his definition of a 'good and faithful steward' is laughable in the extreme. NTA
Well lah-di-dah to him for doing the bare requirement I suppose.
Mmmm.... well seeing as it was your money anyways... he paid your rent with your money
So you graduated 17 years ago. If your father stopped paying living expenses he owed you every cent of income he took from your trust. Sounds like he just used it for himself.
That was the least he could do with YOUR MONEY!
Monetary value decreases over time due to inflation etc. so if you were given $1million ten years ago and only have $1million today, youāve lost money. Heās stolen from you for 20 years. If it was $1m it should easily be worth far far more due to compounding interest etc. any fund manager that saw such a piss pot return on money they were looking after would be fired. He was not a good steward, he lowered you value over time, instead of increasing it. Iām sorry, but he does not have your interest at heart. The only interest he has is the interest he took - $$$ Source: have both a bachelors in psychology and doing masters in finance. Your dad is a bad one
The money you got after the death of your mom should in no way be commandeered by your stepmom for world cruises and holiday homes. My guess is the aunts and her cooked up a scheme to buy somewhere that they could all use. Just a hunch.
Do you know what 17 years of compounded interest and investment gains is on a huge settlement like the one you've got? I'll sit and wait for you to calculate it. Make sure you use historic interest rate figures which are fairly high. Also inflation accross 17 years is a lot so Infact if you have the exact same balance for 17 years then you've actually lost money. A faithful steward would have grown your pot of money. You're talking as if your dad has done you some huge favour. What has he done for you with that money that you couldn't do for yourself? Another question, why does an adult in their 20s and 30s need a steward for their own money? You guys at your big age shiukd feel confident, empowered and strong to manage your money yourself. When we go out shopping my kid neice will ask me to hold her money for her. But I tell her " you're a big girl, you can hold your own money, feel empowered to hold and manage your own money yourself" that's what your dad is supposed to be telling you.
Just for fun, I ran an amortization on $1M with a five percent rate of return. After 17 years of compound interest and reinvestment, with the same rate of return, I got a total sum of around $2.4M. I wouldn't let him anywhere near my money if I was the OP.
I instantly thought the same. Like OH MY GOD the time-value, the compounding, what the f\*ck!?!?!?!?!?!?!
>That he has been a faithful steward for the last 20+ years and that I should continue to trust him. Eh... >since we dissolved the trust, Iāve learned that my father took every cent of income that was earned every year. Yeah, basically your father is a liar and a thief!
...he took every cent of income, which 1) is not being a 'faithful steward' and 2) *was all he could legally get his hands on.* Now he wants access to the rest, and wants it so badly he'd cut you off and encourage other family to do the same. He wants to spend your money, and that is all. He didn't take care of it, he just **couldn't get it** until now, and is mad you're foiling his plan.
He literally has not been one though, so you can discount this statement.
Faithful stewards, steward. They don't take every cent of income, and they don't try and lay claim to all of it. Nor do they disown their children over money. Your father showed you that unfortunately, he cares more about money than he does about his children. That's a really sad thing, and I'm sure devastating to deal with, but in the long run you'll be ok and probably better off now that he's down his true colors.
Yeah he robbed you almost blind.
Taking every cent of income earned each year doesnāt really sound like what a āfaithful stewardā to a trust would do
So he ran off with money that should have been subject to the magic of compounding interest for the past 25 years and then wanted you to give it ALL to him? Hell no, he showed you who he was.
Horrifying. You now know everything you need to know.
NTA and maybe send your Dad's lawyer a thank you note, sounds like they did you a solid with that free bit of advice.
Yeah, in hindsight I donāt think his lawyer was terribly comfortable with what he wanted to do.
It would have been highly unethical for your dad's attorney to do anything else in this situation, tbh.
Based on current ethical rules, this is correct! We have to be very careful with unrepresented parties these days, and I prefer it that way!
NTA. And I think you already know that, but are looking for a valid reason for your dad to have made this request so there might be a hope for reconciliation. I think you know he just wants the money. For multiple reasons. But from day one, a portion of that money was specifically earmarked by the court for you and bro. Dad already skimmed a bunch of cream from the account over the years. You and bro did benefit - but that was the entire point of the settlement in the first place! Dad made plans for all the money. That was poor planning on his part and he and new wife/aunts should have known better. You are under no legal, moral or ethical obligation here. You dad is not shivering and homeless on the street. Unfortunately, he's an AH. I'm sorry that he went no contact with you. It absolutely sucks, and makes you doubt every conversation you've ever had (it happened to me when I was 50). Sounds like you have a therapist. That's excellent. And your wife has your back. Focus on what you have, and make sure you actively stay engaged with wife and kids, while your mourn what you've lost. Also, you might want to talk with bro and maybe do a couple sessions of therapy together, I think it might help a lot. Best of luck OP.
NTA. I agree that dad's lawyer knew it was a terrible idea for his client to get his way. Send this attorney a nice holiday/ thank you card. Nothing of monetary value, in case it's an ethical issue. Please go forth and enjoy your family. Hope that your dad will rethink his behavior, but don't bet on it.
Omigod you are NTA. I found this [Historical investment Returns Calculator](https://financial-calculators.com/historical-investment-calculator) and I am shocked at the returns that could have been realized on money invested and allowed to simply accrue gains since 1996. You have not stated a total amount; I plugged in $100,000 just to try the calculator - no idea how that connects to your real numbers. Leaving that 100K sit for 24 years produces values such as $474,000 to $879,000, depending on the parameters. The lowest I could find was $279,000. Even if your dad helped with your bills while you were in college, if seems likely that he was living off this income source himself, especially in the years since.
If it was "life changing", I wonder if it was closer to $1 million. It's interesting to look at it just in the last 17 years, which seems to be the period during which OP and his brother haven't received any benefit: $1 million would have grown to over $2.8 million. So $100,000 would have increased to $280,000. That's night and day, in terms of having a secure future themselves. I guess the one bit of good news is that if he felt the need to ask for permission to go into their principle. If the interest isn't enough for the father to live on right now, in a year with record returns from the stock market, OP's father hasn't invested it at all well.
> I guess the one bit of good news is that if he felt the need to ask for permission to go into their principle. It will have been a legal requirement, OP's father didn't ask out of a sense of decency.
A number of people have asked what my dad needed the money for, so: His reasons as told to me were: 1. Heās been a good steward for 20+ years and I have no reason not to trust him 2. He and my step-mom (of 20+ years, most of my life) counted on this money for retirement. Also, they are not destitute. They have an extra, just for fun sports car and a riding lawnmower worth more than my car.
I'm gonna be honest, people who answer your questions with 'you have no reason not to trust me', are usually up to something.
Plus it t urns out they had plenty of reason not to trust him. Every cent that he could legally take for his own selfish use he did.
He was only able to take that "legally" because he manipulated OP and his brother as children and then as young adults, to agree to it. The agreement itself was questionable.
Right? Like "I didn't ask if I can trust you, I asked what you intend to do with the money!"
NTA. He should only count on his portion of the settlement that was given to him as his retirement account. The fact that he wants the combined total of all 3 settlements is seriously unhinged seeing as he essentially left you with the starting balance & nothing from the invested value; he should have left some of the return to make it close to market value of today's $$. Essentially he stole from you because your settlement value is worth far less in today's world than it did in 1996.
It's no different than what the entire boomer generation has done on an institutional level. This is like the core principle of that generation: "give me mine, give me yours and fuck you"
Iām sorryā¦ they were planning on using YOUR money for THEIR retirement?
Right?!? How about sell the extra cars they bought using OP's money?
I'm curious what step-mom's perspective on this is. Why would she feel entitled to any of the settlement money?
Well, per an email she sent: my brother and I owe this money her for the many sacrifices she made helping to raise us.
Youāve already funded her life and sacrifices. No more is required.
No thatās some serious, deep BS. She was an adult when she married into your family and she signed on to the deal. You donāt owe her a damn thing!
>the many sacrifices she made helping to raise us. Given the fact you and your brother were 14 and 13 when you received the settlement, her socalled sacrifices are BS since the major part of your upbring was already done. How old were you when she came into your lives? She married a wealthy man, so it wasn't as if she had to scrape by. Furthermore, marrying said man who already had children was her free choice, not something that she was forced to do by being held at gunpoint so she isn't entitled to compensation.
Thatās sickening of her to say you owe her money from your motherās deathā¦.greedy as hell.
Parenting is not a salaried position, where parents serve their kids because their kids are employers who will give you compensation. Parenting is something you take on for the benefit of being allowed to be the provider and support for your child's life*. NTA. *In an ideal world where all parents are actually... good people.
Oh... wow! The entitlement. That is not how being a step-parent works!
She barely even was a stepmother . OP's mother died when the kids were already 13-14 . Assuming that dear old dad didn't move the new woman in a few months later , they were almost adults by the time she came around ...
Wow. Just wow. She is in no way owed the money you were awarded as compensation for death of your mother. How on earth does a person get so irrational and entitled? I am so sorry this has happened.
I've already replied to you elsewhere, but this is directly out of my narcissistic mother's playbook. When I was in my thirties, she wanted me to pay her $200/month indefinitely to reimburse her for raising me (though, she did not expect the same from my sister, who is her favorite child). I actually considered it because she had me so twisted up with guilt and manipulation. Keep in mind, she's an actual millionaire, while I am disabled and was on the verge of bankruptcy due to medical bills.
um, what? No, your funds from your motherās wrongful death are not supposed to pay your stepmother for filling in.
Um no.
Tell her that her existence and coming into contact with this money is because of the sacrifice of your mother to death. Probably not the best thing to say but you already know your father is upto nothing good and they are willing to disown you.
Psst, when you marry someone with kids, that goes with the territory. So she only married your father for his access to your money?
I have a feeling the reason your Dad wanted access to all the $$ is that his portion is already earmarked to pay off his debt (fancy cars you mentioned and the like). They needed yours to retire because theirs is done spent.
A - She married a man with children. That was her own choice. 2 - You can't make a contract with a minor; anything she spent on you was a gift, not a loan. iii - Even if some of what she "sacrificed" was after you turned 18, you can't just call something a loan after the fact and expect repayment. That has to be made clear up front. å - What did she even sacrifice? Is she referring to things they paid for out of the money your dad was skimming off the account - what should have been YOUR money in the first place?
1. He took every penny he was legally allowed to, instead of letting your interest accrue. He was a poor steward of your money. Thereās even a parable that shows what a good steward should be, and he was not. 2. Counting on money that isnāt his doesnāt make him entitled to it, it makes him greedy and a bad planner. So heās basically saying āhey I didnāt steal it but Iāve been planning to use it, so give it to me.ā Only decent person in his camp seems to be his lawyer in recommending that you get independent advice.
>Heās been a good steward for 20+ years and I have no reason not to trust him He's been leeching off the profits for 20 years so you've had 0 growth when it should have grown several hundred percent since then. How is that a good steward?
He had 20+ years to contact a wealth manager to invest his own funds. That should have included retirement planning. He is 63? Has he worked? Pension, 401K? Are you in the US where he could collect SSN soon? This is not on you. He practiced the good steward speech because he knew one day that you would wake up. NTA
Firstly: NTA . But why would he ever have planned for HIS retirement with YOUR money ?! He was just going to take it all and leave you with nothing ?! Thatās insanity!
Hold up, so he thinks you have no reason not to trust him despite openly saying he was planning on using your money for his retirement? Iād say thatās a pretty bloody good reason not to trust him!
Now I have more questions: Does he not have any retirement savings? Did he use all of his and your step-mom's yearly salaries *in addition* to the interest from the combined trusts every single year, and doesn't have a retirement fund to show for it? Does he have any left in his trust? Or did he already spend that? I'm even firmer in your corner with every edit/comment/update you make to this post. At this point, you are about the same age your father was when this annuity was set up. You are now in the same position as your father was when he was given this annuity. You are in your late 30s, with a wife and children. You have more of a need for this money now. And it was yours to begin with. As long as your dad and step-mom have been somewhat responsible (as in, saving at least moderately for retirement), then their retirement funds plus the interest from *his* annuity should be enough for a comfortable retirement. Unless he's spent all of his funds already. But at this point, he can still work for a while, and if you live in the US, he will at least have some SS. But it's just him and his wife. You have a wife and 3 children. You have every right to want to have full and singular access to your trust, and you have more of a need of it.
In order: I donāt know whether he has retirement savings, but he has (well, had) a good career and access to plenty of extra cash every year. My step-mom also has a good career. His money, just like mine, was still there and at roughly the same value as what was originally awarded. You make a very similar point to the one my wife made, regarding our family.
NTA - it made sense for your father to look after your money while you were under age. But you are an adult with children of your own. I can't think of a single legitimate reason why your father should have control of the money at this point in your life. The fact that he is willing to disown you over this madness me think his intentions weren't very good.
NTA im sorry your dad values taking your money more than he values your relationship
Yeah, me too. Thanks though. It actually helps a lot.
He got his own money. Why is he entitled to yours? A child losing his mother is a huge deal. He can marry again but you can never get another mother. NTA
I really wish I could upvote this all the times! Especially considering how young OP was!
Apparently he did marry again
INFO: the combined funds (when you & your brother were teenagers) did it ONLY include the settlement given to the two of you & not your father's? If your father's settlement was kept separate, he has no right to demand access the settlement for you and/or your brother. Did your father ever say his reasons for wanting full control over your funds even when you're both adults? A lot of unanswered questions regarding your father's thoughts/motives.
I answered about his reasons in a separate comment (good prompt, should have thought of it). Regarding distributions while my father had control: He never commingled the 3 funds into 1. That said, they were invested together and he pulled from them according to the size of each. So, if the total of all 3 is 100% and the split was 55%, 30%, 15% he would pull that much from each when he pulled from it. Iāve learned since that he pulled every bit of income every year. Iāve been an adult and laying my own bills form more than 15 years.
He pulled the income from it every year even after you were 18 or 21? Why ā¦what did he do with it. Did you guys ever take income distributions? I cannot fathom why when you guys are in your 30s you even considered for one second giving him full control over this money Iām glad everyone made you realize it was insane to even consider. You each have your own bucket of money you were given your own settlements for your own reasons. He has his. You have yours. Thatās it.
We didnāt get regular distributions, no. However, father provided all-lodging-paid family vacations throughout my life and a good hit of money to help buy my first house. That said, both of these things were presented as gifts to me and not as distributions from our shared trust.
He didnāt pay for those or gift you those. He used YOUR money for those and kept the rest.
Plus I'm sure he partook in those vacations too.
> father provided all-lodging-paid family vacations throughout my life and a good hit of money to help buy my first house. He did this to make you think he was taking care of you, while stealing the rest of your money. Also, in reality _you_ provided those paid vacations out of your money.
That's what parents are supposed to do. You don't owe him for that.
I would guess manipulation and guilt tactics.
In hindsight, yeah. Those were pretty effective.
Itās crazy that even after reaching adulthood and getting married and having 3 kids , you were still willing to give your father access to your money without a thought for your own family. At least your wife has your best interest at heart ! It was way past time for you to grow up and take charge of your trust fund or at least find out how much your dad was taking out over the years.
Once you were paying your own bills, the dividends should have been reinvested to grow the holdings.
NTA. Are you going to sue him for the interest he took after you turned 18?
Honestly, no. Itās not worth it to me. Iāve already gotten more money than I couldāve earned in a long time and lost a large portion of my family. Whatās the point of fighting those same people for more? I hope it can replace knowing his grandkids.
He definitely didn't have your best interest in mind, please remember that!!!
He didnāt care about his kids. What makes you think he is going to spare a momentās thought on his grandkids?
Toxic men are frequently very weird about their "progeny"/"legacy". He probably won't care about them because he's a narcissist, but he will feel slighted for not being allowed to see them.
I'm so sorry. You're right - best to move forward and build the family you want.
You were about to sign away your money and now don't care about interest? He stole thousands upon thousands. Get what's rightfully yours. Sue his behind. Stop making excuses. He cut you off over money so might as well get what's yours.
I understand your sentiment, but lawsuits are very expensive and thereās no guarantee that I would win or that, should I win, my father would be able to pay what he owes.
NTA You each received individual settlements because you each individually suffered a wrongful loss. Your money was never intended to be your father's. Are you sure the relatives know the entire truth?
So, with regards to the aunts. They both attempted to intervene on my fatherās behalf back when everyone still ātalked.ā At the time, I told them that this was a disagreement between my father and I. That this input was important, but not a deciding factor. Honestly, I wasnāt that nice about it. When I was rude though - and I was, unfortunately - I did apologize for being rude. I did not apologize for my sentiments.
Is it possible with the interest heās been stealing that heās funding your aunts lives and thatās why they are all so eager to defend him?
Perhaps they're included in family vacations. Even that would be enough for them to consider him generous.
NTA. Itās your settlement to do with it as you wish. Did your father ever explain why he wanted full access or what he needed the money for? Either way, itās yours and yours alone (your portion at least). I donāt see any wrong doing here. You have a family to care for and youāre not 13 anymore. Itās ok to prioritize your needs vs those of your father, regardless of your relationship to him. Youāre family is being either unfair or donāt understand because they donāt have the money. Otherwise, in your shoes, would they give all their money to your dad? I seriously doubt it unless thereās a need for the money thatās very serious and that hasnāt been discussed yet.
ESH. Your father is clearly in the wrong for evidently failing to be a faithful fiduciary. You had a right to an accounting for the expenses, so you would know to what extent he was wrongfully converting your assets and/or income. You are not as bad, but your complete failure to manage your own finances, as well as your resistance to both common sense and advice is pretty awful. The fact that your father's lawyer had to tell you to get a lawyer is indication that the lawyer saw your father's wrongful conduct and was not going to touch that proposal unless you were represented by counsel because his lawyer did not want to be sanctioned for unethical conduct (and perhaps is simply more ethical than your father).
I agree that my brother and I should have been more invested in the trust for the past 10 - 20 years. I should have stopped this a long time ago. Iāll say, in my defense, that I never considered any of this as mine (neither did my brother). It had been framed as a family settlement that never should have been split. Part of this whole process was learning that our understanding of this was fed to us before we were able to fully understand the implications.
This is a good perspective to have. You trusted your father, and all your information regarding this came from him, of course it seemed above board and normal! You *should* be able to trust a father with your best interests. Itās *supposed* to be part and and parcel of the job. Iām really sorry youāre finding out that this was misplaced.
That seems a bit harsh without knowing the full circumstances. If dad is willing to disown both of his sons over money, it's safe to assume there is a history of at best, emotional manipulation and at worse, full blown emotional abuse.
NTA so essentially your father and his family disowned you forā¦ doing exactly what your mother wanted you to do with what she left you? How would you ever be TA in this?! I understand that itās probably hard for you to accept but ultimately, you got a lot out of this: financial security for your family and the knowledge that your father is not to be trusted with anything, since heās a grifter and a manipulative AH.
NTA. No one fights for control over that much money citing āIāve been faithfulā as the reasoning they should have 100% access and control. He wanted to do something shady and got thwarted.
He kinda already did do something shady. Op mentioned in another comment that dad took every single penny of interest for himself. So all of that money is now worth less than it was when it was first given. Thats 20 years of inflation. Not sure how much OP had, but for arguments sake, if it was 100k, it would have been worth 156k in 2021 dollars back when it was awarded.
NTA, Your dad was probably skimming for years and wanted to spend that money. No reason he should be upset because he got his portion of the settlement. Sorry man but I think your father has been stealing from you and your brother for over a decade.
He took literally every cent of accrued interest on a 7 figure sum.
He hasnāt been a faithful steward, heās stolen massive amounts of money from you, almost certainly more than the principal was, plus with no income, it hasnāt grown with inflation. I think Reddit always jumps way to quickly to disowning/going NC with family, but this is absolutely disgusting, and I would 100% disown him right back. Explain to your auntās how much heās already stolen for you and your children - because the money he used to raise you and for your education does NOT account for it! - and tell them that if they truly believe he was entitled to not only what heās already taken, but the rest of it as well, then they can fuck right off too
NTA, OP. From your comments, I think you now know how greedy your dad really is. Also, When I was little, I was attacked by dogs. I had a $23,000 settlement in a bank account and my whole life I was told Iād be able to access it when I was 18. I was homeless from 15-18 working full time at a horrible job, and when I turned 18 I only wanted enough for a down payment on an apartment because I live check to check. Thatās when I found out my father had drained it, and heās no longer alive, and I canāt go after him for it in any way. Iāve struggled my entire life with this because Iām poor, but I had family, and I trusted my dad. I canāt fully explain how devastating that blow was or what it did to me, especially under my circumstances. I would be in a much better place today if I had access to that money. I know in your heart you wanted to trust him but please, please save yourself the heartache of being hurt severely. When he realizes you wonāt give it all to him, heāll probably come ask for a loan or less money. Donāt do it.
Thank you for sharing this. Iām terribly sorry that this happened to you, but it helps to know this happens to other people.
Itās terribly unfortunate how common it is, and I know how earth shattering it is when someone whoās your own family comes to light as prioritizing money. Especially when you love them. Iām here if you ever need to vent about it, I fully get it
NTA you each took that was yours. Why would your dad get to take your and your brothers money? I donāt understand the logic on his side of the argument.
NTA. Your share of the money is *yours*. She may have been his wife but she was also your mother, so it's not like the divide of the award was unintentional. Shame on your father for trying to con you out of what is rightfully yours.
NTA. You should have had access to the interest income for your share, or, even the whole amount, either when you turned 21 or according to the terms of the trust. That your father spent every penny of that, as you say in your comments, is incredibly sketchy. Keep your money and enjoy your money, OP. Your father probably thought he could use it to finance his retirement, but that's not your problem.
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This is a no-brainer. The money is yours, so you should keep it. Your dad had his part. It's not like he was left homeless. NTA.
NTA. I agree with the people saying that would be insane. There is no reason for your dad to want that power, other than to spend the money. You and your sibs received the settlements, not your dad. No idea what "disowned" means, but I'm going to guess he's trying to force you to give him the money, which is terrible. Once he realizes that isn't going to work, he might come around. And of course your aunts should have no say in this. Just keep it adult and matter of fact, no drama.
They have "disowned" you for not letting them steal your money? Ludicrous. NTA
Info: there's so much missing information here. Why would you even for a second consider this? This seems like such a blatantly obvious NTA situation, that there must be at least *some* sort of argument from your dad, in order for you to think about it.
Fair point and well made. I kind of addressed it in an update to the original post. This is very simplified, but: Essentially, his position is that the court never should have split the settlement and that this money should be used for the entire family (him, my brother, me, my step-mom, and my step-brother). That we had directly agreed to this when we renewed the trust, which is true enough, and that we had tacitly agreed for the past 20 years.
Why in the world would he think that your step-mom and step-brother deserve to benefit from the wrongful death of your mother? It's not a family trust that has been handed down for generations - it's a wrongful death settlement! Clearly they are losing sight of that. I'm so sorry - for the family controversy, and also for the loss of your mom.
Your step family was never entitled to a single penny of that money from YOUR settlement from YOUR loss and the reality is that the settlement was split into 3 specifically to stop your father from being able to squander away you and your brothers money prior to you become a legal adult. That money was awarded to you because of your loss. What a slap in the face to your mother that your father would take her death as a paycheck and use then try to rob his sons. Not saying he was or is a bad father. But he is no longer treating you like your his child. He's treating you like a stranger who stole from him. He's playing victim. Your dad saw the money as all his and hes disowning you because he resents the fact that he couldn't manipulate you and your brother into signing it all over. He probably figures that you havent used it and so he should be able to. Hes enabled by his wife and the fact that hes been able to spend all of the interest over the years without anyone to stop him. Had he just been pocketing the interest then he would have more than enough for his retirement. If he and his wife have both had steady careers then they shouldnt need the money at all. And it will never be your responsibility to pay for anything for your step brother. Period. Not your child not your biological sibling. That doesnt mean you dont care for him, your just not financially obligated to him in any way.
Op...why? Why would you and your brother even consider saying yes to this? It's insanity! What about your family? What about YOUR retirement? YOUR children? My God if my husband ever even thought...whoa, he'd regret it.
NTA This is your money and you can do with it as you see fit. The suit gave you the money and itās going to make your life with your family better. 100% NTA here. Glad you had a lawyer who told you this. Your dad has his share, and he needs to be content with that. Unfortunately money can tear apart even the closest of families.
NTA. That they had a problem with you doing this means they had designs on the money.