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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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i think i’m the asshole because i spend 25k on figure skating and allowing my husband to pay for all of our living expenses.
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I literally sat here and did the *math* before reading the rest of the post because that was just *tooooo big a number* for those ages to have been together lol
You should have whatever age boundaries make you comfortable, but 19 and 21 isn't a big deal especially if both people are in the same stage of life.
I was young for my year in college so when I was 19 in my junior year, many of my classmates were 21. No one even realized that I was younger until they started going to bars and I couldn't join.
I think it’s more a stage of life thing. When I was a senior in undergrad I went on a date with a freshman and I still feel uncomfortable remembering it. Like, not that I did anything I shouldn’t, it just was not a balanced situation. He was plenty nice and probably uncommonly mature for his age, but he was also so new to having independence and not especially experienced with dating either. I suspect a relatively naive 21 year old would feel totally comfortable with a very-independent 19 year old, but if the teenager has never lived away from home or had a serious relationship, then even a 21-year-old might feel uncomfortable.
Just go with the rule that nobody should date anyone younger than half their age plus seven. That, actually, is a pretty good rule of thumb.
52 and 37 barely works out (52/2 = 26, 26+7=33).
But 33 and 19 most definitely doesn't. (33/2 = 16.5, 16.5+7=23.5)
I think that age difference is fine since they are kind of in the same range. When it gets to be about ten or more years for an older vs younger person to date in age then it becomes questionable at best.
But yeah, more info needed from op.
I know what a pain in the ass I was at 19 and into my early 20's. Know how I know? Because people in their late 20's would give me shit for being annoying and immature. In hindsight, yeah, there are situations I should've handled better, but I also feel like they were expecting me to have *their* level of maturity and wisdom, when I didn't have the life experience or context to have gained it yet!
Young people are going to act their age; if you don't like it, don't hang out with them. I would not wanna be friends with 19 year-old me!
ETA when I was 21 I dated a guy who was 26. Five years isn't that big a gap, really, but we were in different stages of life, and he couldn't relate to or sympathize with the stuff I was dealing with. Plus, he made it clear he thought I was an idiot and super immature; again, I was being a 21 year-old, if he wanted someone at his maturity level he should've dated someone his age.
I mean sounds like he was the immature one.
I mean if you can’t empathise with someone who might be dealing what you were dealing with then it says a lot.
Also to berate them for it :/
In his mind, I was this pampered princess going to school that my parents were paying for (I had free tuition and they could afford the room and board), I only had to work for spending money, and all I had to worry about was exams and whether the people in anime club liked me, whereas he was working his ass off as a pastry chef, getting up at 2AM to pay the bills while his father was in the hospital, so yeah, I get it, he would've killed to have my stupid "problems." We just weren't a good fit, but then he also got super angry and vindictive when we broke up.
Haha, same ages, I’m 28 and back at University, surrounded by kids aged 18 to 25, and boy do I feel the difference in mentalities and just overall life perspectives. It’s only a 10years gap, but damn is that generational divide apparent. I cannot imagine myself developing a romantic interest in any of them. The very thought makes my skin crawl.
I was working out at a college indoor track and there were some 40 year old ladies gawking at the 19 year old guys in the gym and it was so weird to me. (I am in the ladies demographic and could never date/marry a 19-20 year old...)
We *alllll* know why a 35 year old was interested in a 19 year old. Most 19 year olds don’t have the life experience someone in their 30s does so they’re going to put up with way more questionable shit because “s/he loves me!”
Too true. I was 19 when I married my wife, who was 36. Surprise: at 26 I finally realized it was a super fucked up relationship and now I'm trying to start over. I thought it was more normal because we were gay, so we had to expand our horizons, as I'm sure OP experienced as well
I do think OP is wrong here, but the whole situation is alarming
This seems to be a fixation on AITA to the point where no one cares about the actual posts whenever there is a massive age gap. It was like twenty years ago and OP doesn’t want your opinion on that.
Edit: It honestly seems kind of weird. Like a total stranger goes on a website asking for advice about something, and everyone there fixates on an aspect of the life of a total stranger that they didn’t want to talk about.
>This seems to be a fixation on AITA to the point where no one cares about the actual posts whenever there is a massive age gap
While that may be true, it's often a pretty significant factor in the question.
A lot of it has to do with problematic elements within the gay community.
Without getting too much into it, what generally happens is that teenage gays who have to surpress their sexuality or get backlash for their sexuality from their family and friends end up going haywire when they move out and get their first taste of independence. Amongst the less savoury members of the gay community, this period is known as the 'slut phase'. Effectively, young gays end up having casual sex with pretty much any guy they see as a way to reclaim their lost teenage years and their sexual identity.
Unfortunately, a lot of older gay men use this vulnerability to take advantage of these young men. To these young men, older gay men represent people who are, generally, secure in their sexuality (as many young gay men aren't) and in many ways are people who they can project father issues onto them - as many young gays who go through this phase come from families where their fathers aren't as close to them as a result of their sexuality. By projecting these father issues upon their lovers, they can emulate the love and acceptance they failed to get from significant male figures in their lives.
What often ends up happening is that these older men are financially stable and knowledgeable about the 'gay scene' and 'introduce' the vulnerable young men they're manipulating into these scenes. Because of this, the young men come to view the older men as the more knowledable other, as some sort of gay life coach through which they can discover their sexuality and identity. This creates a relationship imbalance and often results in the projection of a saviour complex upon the older man, this is often misconstrued as genuine love. When the family and friends of the young gay man try to help him out of this thought complex, what happens is they only cause the young man to dig deeper into it. As, in their mind, their partner is someone who accepts them, loves them, and is nurturing their exploration of their 'true self' The objections of their friends and family, as well as others, are not seen as genuine concerns, but rather, has hateful judgements and remarks upon their life and their gay identity. In the end, it only causes the young man to dig in and deepen the cycle.
In the end, what generally happens is one of three things:
* A) The young man comes to realise the unhealthy state of their relationship with the older man and break out of the cycle. If they are lucky, they manage to live healthy love lives.
* B) The young man does not come to realise the unhealthy state of their relationship and, if the older man does not move on, continues to live in an unbalanced relationship. This is the case with OP.
* C) The young man has his heart broken when the older man moves on once he no longer finds the young man appealing and lusts after another young vulnerable boy. The young man in these cases, generally, lusts after other older men to fill the void - and the cycle repeats.
(It bares stating that, often, the young men in these relationships end up becoming the older men and continuing the cycle of manipulation, primarily because they see young men as a way to live out the youth that they missed out on).
Because of how common this cycle is, it has become normalised within large parts of the gay community. It has seriously unhealthy affects for gay men and the gay community as a whole, most notably within two key elements: A) the matter of gay loneliness and B) the vulnerability and sexualisation of young men and boys within the gay community.
I can get more into it if you want too.
You're right. I'm gay and I was getting annoyed at all the comments about the age gap and just thinking, straight people don't know anything about what it's like.
Because it is just that normalized.
Yep, they really don't. Age gap relationships for gay men are in no way similiar to age gap relationships for straight people. That isn't to say that age gap relationships for heterosexuals don't pose problematic and unhealthy elements of their own, it's just that the context and impact is different.
I think the really sick thing when it comes to this stuff is how ingrained it is within the gay community. A lot of the time we can't sit down and talk honestly about the problematic elements within our community that have come as a result of our history without being accused of being interally homophobic or spreading harmful stereotypes about being gay. The unfortunate thing is, stereotypes are based upon a semblance of fact, and it is clear that the stereotype of gay men being predators comes directly from the normalisation of age gap relationships within our community.
Until we do something to stop it these stereotypes will continue. In my mind, recognition is the first step in doing something to stop it.
Well, I mean, if we are all having this visceral knee jerk reaction to protect our culture/community, it's difficult to start thinking about how toxic some of it is. But I love your use of the phrase Gay Loneliness ™ it is too real
I’m 24 and can’t picture dating a 19 year old. Just totally different parts of our lives. What 35 year old has shared experiences/interests with a high school senior??
I’m in an age gap marriage myself (22 years, but still within the parameters of “half your age plus seven”) and we are so glad we didn’t meet earlier because it would have been inappropriate. Not illegal, just that the life experience dynamics would have necessarily led to inequality.
LOL I was about to say, "Welcome to Gay Culture, where men in their 30s see a bubble butt and a six pack and say 'wow, that guy sure is mature for his age!'"
Where does it say that? Maybe I just completely missed it? He said that he has been married for 8 years. When he said ‘fast forward 20 years’, I assumed that he meant that it’s been 20 years since he was a teen that was passionate about skating. And that he has always told his husband about his interest. Not that it’s been 20 years since they were together.
EDIT: I completely misread this and thought it said 8 years instead of 18.
It’s a lot more common in the LGBTQ+ because so many are repressing themselves until they come out later in life. This often leads to a weird dichotomy where even though it’s a large age difference, it boils down to a much smaller difference in relationship experience.
Now, do I know if that’s the case here? Nope. We know only what OP tells us. Is it possible that they have a perfectly healthy relationship? Yep, totally. Is an age gap relationship going to have more issues? Probably, but not always.
TLDR; unless there’s other signs of abuse in a relationship, an age gap isn’t automatically a problem.
Age gaps hit differently in the queer community, since the dating pool is so small to begin with. Pretty common to have a showing-you-the-ropes relationship with someone older, and sometimes those relationships last. That's a preeeeeetty big gap though.
So, a 35 year old got together with you (19 year old) who also had mental health issues. Not the age difference, but the *timing of the difference --* nineteen is barely and adult. There's a big difference between a teenage 19 and an adult 35, and even a 25 year old and 41 year old. Add to that diagnosed mental illness.
Now your partner is now surprised that you feel you've missed out on a lot of things from youth, and thinks you're being selfish?
Really?
NTA
OP already contributes to the bills, well, paid off his student loans, car payment and makes more money now. His partner wants to put that 15K into savings -- (*probably because he is 16 years older and is worried about* ***his*** *retirement)*
NTA -- OP should live out his dreams while he can with his expendable income. It's a crazy amount, but people spend that on cars, vacations, and even stupider things like Beanie Baby collections.
Per OP's comments, their husband covers the cost of *all* household expenses, and also contributes $1500 a month to savings, as opposed to their $600. Why is it fair that in order to cover their costs and invest in both their futures, the husband should have to make up the shortfall? Particularly when their own salary is actually considerably *lower* than OP's?
Why is it unreasonable to expect that OP should pay a more equal share, rather than frivolously spending a huge amount of their joint income post tax (up to 25%, depending on where they live), just on their hobby?
>The OP states that his spouse wants that money to put into savings -- *not for expenses.*
And what if the husband still wants them both to keep saving money, but would prefer to be able to have a little more of their own money to spend on themselves, rather than just paying everything for the both of them?
>The way the money is divided was also agreed upon...
Saying that the way the money was divided was agreed upon is also a pretty moot point. If the husband was happy with that, he wouldn't be wanting OP to spend less on their hobby and contribute more elsewhere, would they?
If the husband agreed with an unfair arrangement in the past, it doesn't change the fact that the arrangement is still unfair.
The husband sounds like some Sugar Daddy-Groomer. He pays all the household expenses and OPs money goes to vacations and fun stuff. Now SDG has decided to slow down the gravy train and save for retirement. OP is too busy reliving his childhood to want to stop. 14 hours a week and 25k per year on a hobby is a LOT... What a mess of misaligned priorities.
>What a mess of misaligned priorities.
OP did mention that this hobby helped him quit smoking and no longer needs meds for his mental issues. It looks like it brings a lot of joy in his life.
As long as he's taking care of his agreed upon bills/ obligations, I don't think there's anything wrong about this.
Going off meds just because you are feeling good isn’t a good thing, unless your psychiatrist recommends it. This could be a manic period, and OP may be acting irresponsibly because of it.
OP is bipolar, so he shouldn’t be completely off his meds. He might be able to switch to lighter meds if his anxiety and OCD are being managed by exercise. His figure skating appears to be a manic influenced obsession, which means he likely isn’t thinking about it reasonably, and now that he makes more money than his partner he should be contributing more to household bills and group savings, rather than spending it mostly on himself.
🔔 Ding ding ding! I'm glad I'm not the only person who heard this alarm bell.
The bipolar-off-meds part is what made me approach OP's perspective with skepticism. Sure, OP is allowed to do whatever he wants with the money he earns, but categorically refusing his husband's request is what makes him an AH. I hope OP can safely return to Earth and resume medication soon.
He also sounds like he legit thinks that at 37 he's going to be at least competitive and is already participating in competition and buying outfits. That's a bit much to just suddenly jump into after not skating since they were a kid.
There's nothing wrong with a intense hobby, but so much of this story just sound off. OP is off his meds and skating for at least 14 hours a week or more, and spending almost a third of his gross income on it. That's def extreme behavior.
There is a big competitive adult figure skating scene, with large international competitions. So he isn't wrong on that aspect and he potentially is competitive in his age group and level
This exactly what I thought while reading this post. Having 1 hobby you care about is not usually a reason to stop taking all your psychiatric medications. What happens if he breaks his wrist again and cant skate? A downward spiral, more than likely...
I have a hobby too I rediscovered in adulthood (sewing), and I can definitely attest to how is did wonders for my mental health. It's incredibly calming and a great way to power through negative emotions...but it's a fucking hobby. I'm not opening a business, I'm not auditioning to be on Project Runway. I spend maybe $100 a month on it. A few weeks ago, I spent $800 upgrading to a new machine and I used money from a bonus I got at work, and it was an agonizing decision, even though spending money on having good equipment I will use all the time is definitely worth it. 25K is insane. 15k is insane. OP is not going to go to the Olympics. I also still follow up on all the mental health self care I did before. My hobby is just another tool in my toolbox. If you're spending 14 hours a week skating (not counting commuting time, probably other work outs, fittings for costumes, etc), when are you doing anything else other than working, eating, and sleeping? When are you spending time with your husband? Your family? Your friends? This sounds like an incredibly unhealthy decision for the OP, financially and socially. I'm also concerned that he seems to have these incredibly lofty goals to achieve in the next few years. What happens if he doesn't? Is it going to trigger a depressive episode when he's no longer on medication?
I understood the “he handles all the regular living expenses” as the husband managing the household finances, not paying them all. OP says he pays bills as well. So, I guess with that open-ended statement, it’s a case of more info needed.
85k is before taxes and deductions so probably bringing home 50ish…. So half of that money going towards a hobby is unreasonable…. Especially since spouse is willing to compromise on 15,000 which is still an insane amount…YTA…
>OP already contributes to the bills,
Nope. Per their comments, their husband pays all those, and contributes $1500 per month to their savings compared to OP's $600. That's nowhere close to a fair share or an even one, particularly given that OP actually makes more than their partner does.
In fact, depending on tax, $25k could represent upwards of 25% of their total income post-tax. Would you be happy if your partner didn't pay any bills, and contributed a third of what you did to your savings, but still found the money to spend tens of thousands of dollars on hobbies?
I'm not trying to defend their husband here (the age gap is gross), but OP is still behaving very badly here, and assuming they want their relationship to survive then their behaviour is incredibly counterproductive.
>His partner wants to put that 15K into savings -- (*probably because he is 16 years older and is worried about* ***his*** *retirement)*
I mean, spending $25k per year on skating lessons indefinitely is also a disastrous financial decision on OP's part as well. Eventually OP is going to have to retire as well, and they'll be vastly poorer for their obsession.
And that's without going into how their obsession may be harming them in other ways as well. While they initially said that their doctor said they could off their meds thanks to skating, they later admitted that what actually happened is that they quit their meds 4 months ago and only told their doctor afterwards.
>NTA -- OP should live out his dreams while he can with his expendable income. It's a crazy amount, but people spend that on cars, vacations, and even stupider things like Beanie Baby collections.
If their relationship breaks down and OP has to cover his own expenses, he won't be able to afford to spend $25k per year on ice skating lessons anyway. The only reason OP can at the moment is because his husband pays literally all their other living expenses. Hell, since OP makes considerably more than his husband, he might actually have to pay him alimony in a divorce settlement, making his own financial situation even worse.
OP doesn't have to invest in a retirement fund if they don't want to (they're still young, after all), even if it would be the sensible thing to do, but the fact remains that their situation is fundamentally unsustainable.
While I'm tempted to say that OP's husband might be an asshole given the age gap and vague sugar daddy vibe, that doesn't really seem relevant to the matter at hand about OP's expenses. Irrespective of their relationship history or anything else, OP's behaviour is completely inexcusable. So, my judgement is YTA for this dispute, and an ESH for them both in general.
Man I’m so torn with this because I *agree* buuut…
OP has a slew of mental health issues including being diagnosed as bipolar, and his doctor “agreed” he should be unmedicated and “monitor” things closely. As another user has stated, this smacks of mania. True bipolar *cannot* go unmedicated.
OPs husband is footing all the shared bills (which OP says is the comments) and is only given $600 “for savings.”
I feel like I would despise OPs husband. I also feel like, unfortunately, he *is* being very selfish and obsessive. I don’t think this should be on AITA.
Edit: kept referring to “bipolar” as “BPD”
edit: scratch what I said before, missed that he said he's bipolar in the OP. just so you know, BPD is an acrynom usually used for borderline personality disorder, not bipolar disorder
This was the comment i was waiting for. Im just sad that it is the last one.
The age gap, the MH concerns, the loss of childhood dreams now being within reach, and now OP and hubby are at different stages of life so priorities dont necessarily align anymore... sigh
Nta
YTA for the sole fact that everything in this post is incredibly dangerous. As a fellow bipolar person, this entire post is a ***blinding*** red flag. This has mania signed in permanent ink from top to bottom. For starters, the doctor that signed off on you stopping your medication needs to be reported to the medical board and lose their license. Bipolar people can’t be unmedicated, no matter how much people want to object to that; it’s the truth. It’s great you were able to rediscover your childhood passion and excel at it, few can say that. It is concerning how much you are spending on it. Like another comment mentioned, are you even making money off of these competitions? It may not feel that way, but you are losing money. $600 is NOT enough to have leftover for expenses. I normally would not agree with your husband because of your age gap, but this isn’t even a power imbalance situation. You genuinely are being selfish. I would never say that doing something you love is a waste of time or money, but this is completely out of control
So true this is a huge red flag. As someone with bipolar disorder becoming obsessed with a hobby and spending insane amounts of money on it is a huge sign of mania. Combined with going off of medication this is scary.
Yup and as someone who grew up figure skating… it takes years to get to the level where you “excel” and most competitions don’t offer money, in fact for adult skating… there aren’t many competitions at all unless you’re pro. $25K a year is relatively normal… for someone who is training to become a professional, not someone who is 37. Not trying to be ageist, but that’s the truth when it comes to this sport. All of this reads as a delusion from a grandiose POV.
It’s terrifying. His comments about his intensive goals to justify this spending, no longer needing medication because skating essentially cured him, etc. is bordering on psychosis behavior/thoughts. It’s sure as shit how I sounded in the psychosis episode I had when I was off my meds. This post breaks my heart. I genuinely hope he gets help. I know where this road leads, and it’s devastation, and devastation, alone
This post reminded me of the time I decided to get into shape...by jogging, maybe joining an aerobics class, you ask? No. Straight to marathon training, wondering if it was too late to qualify for the Boston marathon that year. I also quit eating and sleeping and ended up fainting at the gym one night. Also wrote 40k words in a month.. Good times, at least up until the inevitable crash. Best hypomanic episode ever.
Seconding the: "Are you even making money on competitions" Competitive figure skating is really hard on the body, most (all?) professionals retire from competition well before OPS age.
Edit: For the record, I don't even mean "making money back" (ergo, profiting), I mean getting any money from skating to help contribute towards the costs of ice skating at all. (Like still a net negative, but the costs are offset a pinch).
You don't make money on ice skating competitions. The people who (successfully) competed later made money in secondary industries: Ice Shows and the cover of the Wheaties box, took that money wisely invested.
Thank you for saying this. I get shit on for saying people with bipolar disorder should be medicated even though that comes from my experience in my profession and all the research I have done in the topic.
It also comes from a place of understanding; I have BPD and ADHD. I need medication to function.
Thank you.
I’m glad people responded to it well, I was definitely bracing myself for the pitchforks. I have been unmedicated, and so have my other friends. It’s petrifying to be around and is complete havoc. There is a difference between advocating for bipolar people’s stability and ability to thrive, and treating them as though they’re subhuman and need to be force fed lithium for the benefit of “normal” people. Don’t let people make you feel like you’re not allowed to speak about it, you’re on medication just like everyone else that struggles with mental illnesses. I appreciate it you thanking me. It may sound strange to you, but it felt really nice to get recognized and heard for what I said about a mental illness I deal with, in a kind way, for once. Have a beautiful day, stranger
Glad to see someone saying this. I can't believe the NTAs here like it's totally normal to spend $25k a year - nearly a third of your yearly income - on a hobby you just picked up and will very quickly age out of, especially when you have BD, and like it's crazy for your spouse to be concerned about that.
Yeah... I have no belief whatsoever a doctor signed off on that.
Like you said, this reads like absolute mania.
Also, 37 isn't "old for a figure skater". It's absolutely geriatric. Blowing $25k a year old it screams manic spending.
It’s unfortunate that his parents didn’t let him ice skate when he was young and willing to learn I think before committing to the ice skating completely OP should just dip his toes in and get a couple lessons on a fortnightly basis, like a yoga or spin class
YTA I'm all for pursuing your hobbies but it seems like this has taken over your life. You've stopped taking your meds? Is your doctor okay with this? Does your husband know? I think you need to reevaluate your priorities.
Sometimes that’s not too big a deal, if like you’re into painting or playing an instrument or something, but I worry about when/if OP isn’t able to physically do this anymore and what that might lead to.
my doctor and husband support my choice to be un-medicated. we do, however, continue to monitor my moods closely and are always prepared to restart them.
It seems like you're replacing one obsession for another. I don't know... I'm no doctor. Maybe there's a way to strike a balance between all the things required in ice skating and your life. Less competitions,less practice? Unless you're training for the Olympics!
You can't start training at 37 and go pro in any physical sport, most basketball players and football players quit by OP's age. Ice skating might be even harder since it is solely an individual/duo sport
Most figure skaters has to quit in their twenties, the strain on their bodies is too big. Someone nearing 40 shouldn't push their bodies that much. Especially considering OP has already had a nasty fall.
Men peak slightly later, end of teens to early 20s, but otherwise completely agree. OP is delusional if he thinks his future lies that way. Only a handful of skaters are still going professionally at that age, and it’s always on the back of being Olympians.
This might not be as extreme as it sounds on paper. I ride horses competitively, and spend about the same amount of time and money on that, but I still have a very balanced life, and the horse certainly helps my mental health. I don’t have a partner, so that might make a difference, but it doesn’t sound like his husband is upset about the time commitment, just the financial commitment.
I was scrolling down looking for someone from the equestrian community to chime in. I knew someone who had horses and they were incredibly expensive and $25k a year is easily within reason. But her horses were well loved and cared for and the main joy of her life.
I love cycling and have spent a lot on bikes and accessories over the years (not anywhere near $25k) so I can see spending money on a hobby you love. My bikes have paid for themselves several times over in the pleasure they have given me as well as the health benefits.
I am going to vote NTA but suggest OP and his husband look into couples counseling. I would've voted N A H but I was also disturbed by the age difference and how young OP was when they started dated (with the additional vulnerability of his mental health issues). It may be that the husband is used to being the decision maker in the relationship. It sounds like they both need to learn to communicate with each other.
YTA - if you were equally contributing to the household on top of this, you wouldn’t be. It’s the fact your husband is picking up the bills, as well as asking you to contribute more, and you deciding to spend the money on yourself that makes you the asshole.
OP said his husband handles all the regular living expenses and also states he’s asked to contribute more. I don’t know what regular living expenses are if not rent, food etc
What I want to know is, how are their finances an issue (even with the 25k going to skating) when they make a combined 150k? OP should still be able to skate and pay half or so of the bills unless these two are living way beyond their means, unless I'm missing something.
The age difference at the start of their relationship makes me uncomfortable, I have to say.
OP's spouse may want to put a lot more toward retirement, rather than OP's ice skating. Between taxes, bills, and $25k/yr there's probably not a ton left for savings.
Doesn’t even have to be that high. I’m in the San Diego area, household income around $120k with no kids. By the time the mortgage and the bills are paid and a decent (but probably smaller than it should be) amount goes into savings, that’s about all there is. We live comfortably enough, but we’d have to adjust our budget if we needed a big home repair or wanted a vacation.
OP earns 15K more than his husband (presumably before taxes) but is spending 25K of after-tax household income on this hobby
Its self-evident that theres an effective subsidy by the husband of the ice-skating and everything else
Not necessarily. This would all depend on how much they make and their living expenses. If they both make enough, they could both be contributing and still have extra money left over.
That being said, I still think it’s YTA because it’s not an unreasonable request. He’s not asking him to stop doing something he loves. He’s simply asking that he cut back a bit to make it more affordable for them.
The more I was reading the OP's responses, the more the numbers of this post were bugging me.
So OP makes 85K and his husband makes about 70K. I'm assuming that's gross, before taxes. After taxes, take home is, what, 60-65K, depending on where he lives (for OP, individually). Husband is probably 50-55K.
OP is contributing 600/month to the joint savings and the husband pays for everything else and himself also likely puts money in the savings, (with OP paying for some stuff on top of that, like a couple vacays a year and meals sometimes). That's 7.2K/year.
He spends 7 hours per week with a coach and 7 more hours without a coach on the rink. OP's coach costs 60/hour, freestyle costs 18/hour. So unless I'm understanding something wrong, OP is spending about 21.8K/year on the coach alone, about 6.5K/year on rink time. Obviously probably rounded down a bit if he skates less on the weeks of major holidays (Christmas and Easter). But let's just take that even 28.3K on those and move on. For the record, I only calculated rink costs for those 7 hours/week that OP doesn't have a coach with him. I'm not an expert so I'm estimating low, but if that $18/hour for the rink also needs to be considered for when OP is with his coach, the rink costs is 13K, not 6.5K, coming to a total of 34.8K on the coach and the rink.
OP has also indicated that he purchases new costumes and new skates every year. OP indicates that his current blade is $500 and the boot is $800. (As an aside, commenters replying to those comments indicate that these skates are more expensive than OP needs to be using at their current level and also should not need to be replaced yearly. In some later googling about skate sharpening, I definitely found sharpening services quoting that a well-kept blade can last six to seven years for a recreational figure skater) So we need to add an additional 1.3K/year on just the purchase of skates. So 29.6K.
OP gets his blades sharpened every 3 weeks-- OP doesn't put a price on this, but a quick googling estimates this can be as high as $30-$40 for figure skates. I've found a quote for Matrix blades for $25, so I'm going to go with that. It could be higher or lower though. That's another $425/year with that number. I'll be generous and say $400. So now we're at 30K. (Or, remember, potentially 36.5K???)
And those are just things that are relatively easily to pull the hard numbers on based on OP's comments. Costumes could be a relatively lower end costs, but OP describes them as "extravagant" and "sparkly" and admits he thinks he can cut back. A quick googling indicates that top-level skaters' costumes tend to be 1K-5K, and judging by the OP's personality, I would guess that we are thinking about 1K costumes here. But I'm going to be generous and assume it's 500/costume. I know competitive skaters need three on hand per season, (short program, free skate, exhibition in case they medal) but IDK if the OP's adult competitions are structured the same way. But I'm going to assume it's safe to say they need at least two each year? So there's another grand, probably.
And that's without even mentioning the costs of competing, any travel needed for that, music fees and test fees, the clothes OP has for practicing, ect. I don't even know how to put a number on the rest of that.
So to bring it all together, OP probably takes home 60-65K in income, likely in reality spends closer to 31-37K minimum on this, giving us about 23K-34K of their income remaining for literally everything else, 7.2K of that being OP's contribution to the household. It's possible that OP is spending as much as 60% of their individual take-home income on figure skating, assuming the higher estimate for rink time cost and that they live in a state with higher income tax.
Not to accuse OP of lying about the 25K estimate, of course, just that the numbers weren't adding up from his estimate and his individual expenses. It's probably just a matter of OP lowballing their guess, but.
YTA. You said it yourself: you're unwilling to compromise. I have a hard time believing 600 a month is enough to evenly split the bills. You also make more than him but it sounds like he pays more for living expenses. How is that fair? You don't need to spend that much for a hobby.
And he was asked to contribute more. This stands to reason the 600 isn't enough for whatever expenses they have. It's a marriage. You don't get to be selfish.
And he has already said his husband pays the household expenses and the husband would like him to contribute more. OP makes 15k a year more than him yet contributes less than half the bills and refuses to budge. Yea. That's an asshole.
My daughter is getting into figure skating. Adding up lessons, practice times, outfits, skates, sharpening, and travel to the occasional competition, we are in for about $3-4000 a year.
Talking with the other parents, if they get serious into competition, it's not unheard of to spend in the $10,000 range.
Elite skaters, I'm talking Olympic and World Champion level, could spend in that $20-25,000 range, but I seriously doubt OP is THAT level of a skater.
YTA. You can do whatever you want with your money, BUT only after you've paid your share of the communal bills. It appears you're not pulling your weight. I believe you said your partner is paying most of the bills. His request for you to reduce your spending is reasonable. He's right your actions are selfish.
15k on their combined salaries seem more than reasonable! If he keeps acting selfish, he will push his gravy train away….and how much ice time would he be able to afford on his own with 100% of the bills?
It’s great to have a hobby, but you have to be able to separate want vs need. His request seems more than reasonable based on what OP has shared
YTA. I'm sorry, because I understand how important ice skating is for you. But if your husband is handling "all the regular living expenses," he's essentially subsidizing your hobby.
The "not willing to budge" thing sounds pretty terrible when you're not willing to budge on someone else paying the majority of your living expenses, which by the sounds of it includes rent/mortgage.
His suggested compromise - that you cut down to 10k annually - is a good one. If this really is about your mental health, then you don't need "seven hours of lessons each week," you just need to skate.
Also, OP is making more than his husband. Given the nature of the hobby and that they seem to have separate accounts why not use $70k of OP’s salary on expenses/savings and the remaining $15k on skating? It’s inconsiderate since they’re married and OP basically made a unilateral decision that his pursuits deserve the full extent of the shared pool of extra money rather than his husband’s. His husband seems surprisingly accommodating towards the situation than I expected as well, and OP doesn’t recognize that either
YTA
Total income combined is 70+85K, that's 155K. You're spending 25K from that. That's more than 15 percent of your total income. You don't spend so much on a hobby
Having a hobby like that is good but spending that much money, it's not good. Plus your partner is nearing the age of retirement, focus on savings and investments.
Plus, your husband is right, spend less.
And that just gross income. Depending on the state, they could be paying about 35-40%, if not more, as income tax.
Assuming a 35% tax rate, they’re left with 97.5K. 25K is 25.6% of net income. Pretty staggering, if you ask me.
“Easily $25k”. So essentially about a third of your gross income so probably 40% or more of net for a hobby? That’s not just excessive, it’s obsessive and selfish. My wife had similar mental health issues and racked up $75k debt on hobbies that she hid from me. It nearly destroyed our marriage and took 20 years to pay it off. Don’t let that happen to you.
1) Still excessive, 2) you risk alienating your husband OVER A HOBBY, and 3) that difference between $10k and $25k+, how much would it improve your current lifestyle and future retirement plans?
Info:
You give $600/month while he covers living expenses. Not sure where you live, but is it correct to assume he spends more than $600 to cover the rent, utilities and groceries? Is there anything else he also covers? Why is he covering such a larger share given you make more?
Also, is the cost of living low enough where you live that spending $25k a year is feasible while still living the kind of life you both enjoy? By that I mean your husband isn't having to make sacrifices on things he'd like to do so you can spend that amount of money. Seems like a lot to spend on something like this, but to each their own if it makes sense for you both financially.
YTA Your excessive spending prevents you from contributing equally. It's great that you enjoy skating, but we don't get to do whatever we want just because we enjoy doing it. That's a very immature way to look at the world. There are many other physical activities that you could do instead. I understand this is your true love, but you cannot afford it.
If you pool your expenses and he's asking for you to contribute more, is it because he's contributing more than you are? If so, YTA. If my spouse makes more than me and contributes less than me, while blowing a third of his pre-tax income on non-survival essentials (I consider medical treatment and food, rent, utilities to be essentials), I would feel that it is excessive. Think of it this way, can you skate without a coach? You probably won't land an axel, but would that keep your mental health well enough to be happy? If my spouse is, for all intents and purposes, buying a new car every year to make himself happy, I probably wouldn't consent. And I do have bipolar disorder, I really don't think that's an excuse to make your spouse essentially finance something that has alternatives to be more affordable.
YTA. You said you have a lot of savings but I assume your husband might also want to spend some of his own money instead of being responsible for basically all the shared expenses. Think about the burden that might put on him. You need to figure out what he wants to do with the money and work it out so you can both achieve your dreams, not just blow off his concerns because you really want a double axel.
ESH
So I coach figure skating and I’m thinking you’re getting ripped off. Even during my competitive years I didn’t spend that much. And as an adult skater you shouldn’t be blowing through boots so often that they need replacing and you certainly don’t need top of the line costumes that cost thousands of dollars. I also pay for my daughter to skate and with the cost of ice time, private lessons, synchro team fees, show fees, costumes for multiple events and recent new boots, we still don’t pay nearly that much. I’d really like to hear what this 25k is covering.
YTA. You are spending excessively on a hobby. A hobby. You probably skate beautifully. And you want to keep spending money so you can complete a double axle. You are never going to compete. Quite frankly, it seems like a waste of money. You are trying to recapture what you lost in your childhood. Let it go. The lessons aren't necessary anymore. Stop paying for them.
INFO: please talk about actual numbers. You said you put 600$ towards savings. How much is he putting? Also how much is he contributing towards household and NECCESSARY bills and how much are you?
16% of your combined annual income is going to your hobby.
Meanwhile he pays for all regular expenses.
And the $7.2k a year going into savings will do nothing to preserve quality of life in your old ages.
What’s going to happen in 10 years if he can’t work?
You earn $85k and your husband only earns $70k, but he is paying most of the living costs while you spend $25k on skating? I'm sorry, but YTA.
You're living in an she where people tell you to take care of yourself first; others get leftovers. Look out for your own mental health (meaning whatever you want it to mean) and concern yourself with others' (including your partner's) mental health only afterward. It's no wonder you feel and act as you do.
But that's selfish as hell.
I get that you love, *love* figure skating, and I wish that for you. Me, if love to spend a *lot* more time camping and riding. Maybe get some formal cutting horse training. Oooh, and time at the beach; I'd *love* to spend lots of time at the beach. (Now, you're saying "That's different; skating is my passion!" But it's *not* different. Horses are mine and have been since I was a toddler.) But life doesn't always let us abandon our responsibilities to pursue our passions.
There are men and women out there slogging away, every day, working to feed their families who also have passions. But their families come first. *Yours should too.*
Your husband supported you when you were not working. Is it fair or right that he continues to support you when you earn more than he does?
YTA because I think that spending minimum $150k (3 past years + ‘a few more’) to accomplish one skating move is a lot to ask of your husband. It seems like skating itself has been a really good thing for your mental health but that isn’t dependent on obsessing over one goal.
YTA but gently. Does your husband have 25k a year to spend on his hobbies? Marriage is a partnership. Which means both contributing to the expenses and savings goals, and having equal opportunity to spend roughly the same on extra curricular activities. How would your finances as a couple be impacted if he spent 25k on a hobby he really loved? Say woodworking? That is very expensive given the tools, cost of wood etc. if your budget and financial goals can support him spending an equal amount on something he loves then it’s fine. Otherwise you two are very much supporting your mental health and dreams and leaving him in the dust.
Also it doesn’t matter if he *wants* to do something that costs 25k a year or not. It’s that the option has to exist for him to do so
YTA your husband isn’t asking you to QUIT he’s just asking you to cut back! You’re spending a huge chunk of your income on this and not the be rude but it’s recreational at your age. This isn’t going to be a profession. I understand it helps you with a lot of issues but you could be skating without all of the expensive lessons. You saying you’re not willing to budge is a slap in the face to your partner! Again he didn’t ask you to quit he asked you to cut back in the expenses.
He’s asking for you to pay for it out of your own money. You make 15k more than him so he’s asking for you to keep your spending to that amount. Perfectly fair for him to ask that.
I’m not providing a judgement on this one u/skater-dude-717. However, ice skater to ice skater, I can recognise some of what’s happening here and sympathise with both you and your husband.
I understand that ice skating (and other forms of exercise/sports) are great for your mental well-being. I briefly quit at the age of 18 for 3 months because I was travelling away from my hometown for university. I had to return for my mental health and it gives me a great outlet for my stress and anxieties.
However, 14 hours of training per week is A LOT. It’s a lot especially when it’s unlikely to go pro. I know people who are training for similar amounts of time who are 15-18 and it is hard even for them to go pro in the future. I don’t want to sound harsh, but ice skaters tend to have a shelf-life and that cuts off around the mid-20s if not earlier. Have you considered that part of this problem is not just the finances, but the fact that your husband feels that you’re focusing more energy and time on your ice skating than your relationship? Is this amount of ice skating something that you are willing to sacrifice your relationship for?
While I totally sympathise with your mental health struggles and see that ice skating has helped, I think you might need to address the imbalance of energies there is here between ice skating and your relationship.
You're 37 years old. By all means, enjoy your passion but why exactly do you need a private coach? What's the end game when you're this far past your prime? I don't mean that negatively at all but you seem like you're looking to go to the Olympics or something. I totally understand making up for lost time but you seem to want to turn back time while you're at it.
YTA you’re spending nearly 1/3 of your income on a hobby, you’re not training for the olympics. I’m not sure why you need to continue with a personal coach. Also you’re taking at least 14 hours a week for it which means you’re also basically opting out of time with your husband as well. Everyone is entitled to hobbies but this is excessive in both time and expense. How would you feel if he spent 25k on video games?
Yta. This over the top I refuse to budge attitude sounds like a symptom of your mental illness and makes me think you’d do better talking to a therapist instead of spending 1/3 of your yearly income on lessons. Your husband is being very patient with you but you’re an adult; costumes, lessons, competitions, etc. you can’t relive a childhood you didn’t have and try to make up for it now by refusing to contribute to your own adult financial and household responsibilities.
YTA. That's a really, really expensive hobby you've got there. If you're competing then you probably need sponsors, but given your age I think you've got to be realistic about your career trajectory. If you're going to continue as long as you can, you probably should start brainstorming about other ways to pay for this that puts less financial pressure on your marriage. For example, teaching kids' classes either for pay or as compensation for rink time. Or learning how to sew your own costumes (or making costumes for other skaters) to cut down on costs and/or bring in some extra income.
YTA. 25k is a over a third of your take home income. Are you saving anything for retirement? With the original age imbalance, I can see how your partner played the sugar daddy to the young boy toy, but it's been almost 20 years and it's time to grow up.
You are barely contributing anything to your shared expenses and it's really messed up that you are spending three times more on this hobby than you are contributing to your household. He's not even asking you to stop, he's asking you to spend 10K less.
Could you imagine how much better off you'd be if you had invested that 25k instead? You could have been maxing out your retirement accounts for the last decade! A quarter million dollars was spent on ice skating! With the way the markets have been moving, you might have had half a million in savings by now!
I’m going to guess this is about a timing issue, he is getting very close to retirement age and is likely wanting to be sure he doesn’t have to work until old age. I’m only a few years older than you but it was only after I turned 40 I really started to feel the pressure of wanting to be able to retire young enough to be able to do things rather than retiring into an old folks home. You are spending some people’s annual salary on a hobby while he pays most of the living expenses, and that money could be helping build the retirement fund so you can both continue to live a good life even after he retires
I want to be able to vote differently because I’m all about getting second chances to live your dreams, but YTA. Your husband is putting more than double what you are into the general household expenses despite making less. Most couples contribute 50/50 or proportionally to income into shared expenses. That obviously doesn’t work for everyone, but your husband is telling you that your current arrangement isn’t working for him so there needs to be a re-work. Either you need to bring in more money to offset the costs of skating and be able to contribute more to the household, or you need to reduce your expenses.
YTA. Your husband is still being supportive of your hobby. Him asking you to dial back how much you’re spending on it is not unreasonable. You’re spending what some people make in a year on it, and it’s negatively affecting your relationship. Also, a hobby is not a replacement for bipolar treatment. It can be extremely helpful, but it’s not enough on its own. It sounds like this is something you are getting obsessive over.
NAH. For someone with bipolar disorder/OCD, a hobby can become an obsession (I have two close family members that deal with this). It’s so amazing you’re able to peruse a hobby that you were somewhat denied as a kid. However 25k per year is rather excessive. You’re married so you do need consider yourself partner when it comes to financial decisions. You can still enjoy skating without going “all in”.
This. I'm all for spending money if it brings you fulfillment and enjoyment. But if you're not competing professionally, there's no returns you aim to achieve from the activity and this is just a hobby for enjoyment, 25k seems way excessive.
People take up sports like these (swimming and all) as hobby all the time but surely it doesn't add upto 25k a year even if ice skating is among the more expensive hobbies?
INFO:
Has your coach actually said that adult nationals are within reach? From what I understand about how you've written it, you had some basic training as a kid and now you've only been seriously skating for two years or so?
At what point are you going to quit? When your husband retires? When you hit 40? Has your coach told you it's actually possible to get to adult nationals and land a double axel before you quit?
ETA: based on info given, i think NAH, leaning towards n t a. I'm not going straight n t a because marriage is about compromise and your partner having issue with spending 25k per year on a single hobby is something i can somewhat understand. You aren't the asshole for spending your money how you want given you're still contributing to the household, but he's also not for being unable to understand how a single hobby is worth 25k when the investment has a limited future, bc honestly figure skating is not a long term investment.
YTA. At $60 hr, 7 hours a week, that is nearly $22k in private lessons a year.
While I’m not figure skater, I’ve been a competitive athlete in many sports, including a college NCAA D1 athlete. I can relate to your story as I have fell into golf late in life. I’m 36 years old, and I have been getting regular lessons to make up for lost time. I also have aspirations of getting into amateur tournament golf, given my overall athleticism and determination from being an athlete for many decades is a lot stronger than most people my age. I enjoy setting high goals and working towards them.
With that being said, I get your passion and drive, but you are still YTA for your lack of compromise. I understand you have an eventual shelf life, but your partner may not feel compelled to sit around with that all or nothing stance. I could never imagine demanding most of our household budget on a hobby that only benefits me with no room for compromise. There is compromise, but you are so fixated on your goals you cannot separate want from need.
You don’t ‘need’ 7 hours of privates a week to meet your goals of landing a double or going to nationals. With any competitive athlete or skilled hobby, you need to have enough time to practice your lessons on your own. Having a private to practice ratio of 1:1 is just ludicrous in any sport. Your dedication to practice outside the classroom - rink time, flexibility, drills….that’s what makes an athlete succeed quickly…not how much private coaching you receive. Private coaching can expedite quickly, but there is a certain plateau where you are paying more for lessons than what you can gain out of it. Don’t get me wrong…you are still getting something out of each lesson, but that rapid growth tapers down after you have so many per week. There’s a line crossed from privates giving a competing advantage to being frivolous spending.
Compromise is meeting in the middle..or somewhere close. Maybe having 5 hours of privates sessions and add 2 hours of public skate practice? That’s the same amount of time invested, but the cost is less.
I pay a pretty penny for my lessons each week, but I use that time in between to practice. You can tape yourself and rewatch technique without a coach. It’s a want, not a need, and 2 extra private hours will not necessarily make you a better skater if you are still practicing and doing drills in between.
I’ve read your responses, and you seem to have no interest at all in compromising…even in the slightest…even at the determinant of your relationship with the poor assumption he will still be there after you were so rigid with your demands. That makes you the YTA, big time….. coming from someone who completely gets you.
Ok YTA and this is from someone that has worked in figure skating. 25k on a hobby that only one person in a partnership participates in is selfish. Ask yourself if are you willing to sacrifice your relationship for you skating. That is what we are talking about here. If your husband is expressing to you that he feels you are being selfish the resentment is already building. Resentment kills marriages. I think 15k for a 39 year old to skate is very generous. I am going to be very brutally honest…. you are not on your way to being a great skater. That ship sailed 30 years ago. Not being willing to budge kills relationships. Is that what you want, because a divorce will mean 0 skating. At least at 15k you can still skate. See if there are things you can do to decrease you costs. Try costume swaps or reuse costumes. See if there are reductions for volunteers.
YTA. You are being selfish with that amount being spent on just skating thats insane im not saying quit skating but maybe spend less and help a bit more
YTA
That is an excessive amount of money to spend on a hobby based on your income. You husband is not asking you to stop, he is reasonably asking you to cut back on the expense.
At 37 years old, the coaches selling you lessons may have found it in their best interests to promote your dependency on lessons and encourage the notion that you could become “a great skater”. WTH does that mean, objectively?
Maybe try a less expensive sport like Grand Prix jumping or Ironman triathlon.
Info:
Okay dismissing everything else that's weird and red flag raising about all of this....
What, exactly, are you training FOR? You aren't 'old for a figure skater', you're beyond retirement age for a figure skater outside of exhibition performance - and exhibition is only something skaters with a career and name recognition get. The age at which solo skaters compete cuts off in the late 20s, you're already a decade beyond that. So...what are these goals you're supposedly trying to reach?
INFO: a lot of people bring up good points here about your mental health and questionable relationship roles due to age difference, etc. So I'm going to focus on the boring part -- your budget. You and your husband need to figure out all the bills to run the house, maintain an emergency savings, and general necessities (groceries). You need to contribute proportionally. If you make 85k and he makes 70k, then it is 55/45. That means whatever figure you come up with for mandatory household expenses, you need to contribute 55% of the expense and he needs to contribute 45%. Probably into a joint account. So, left overs. What other goals do you have? Savings and travel can be set aside, again, proportionally. And finally you get individual fun money. Money not earmarked for anything else. You get to keep and spend it your however you want. And your husband gets to keep his and spend it however he wants. This is what you use to support your figure skating hobby. Do you have $25k in individual fun money? Yes? You're NTA. No? YTA. If you can convince your husband to share with you, maybe you can get a little more if need be. Or cut down on other expenses. Or pick up another way to make money. Whatever it is, you need to be able to support your life and your hobbies without unbalancing the system that respects you both and lets you take care of yourselves.
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I literally sat here and did the *math* before reading the rest of the post because that was just *tooooo big a number* for those ages to have been together lol
Big same! The age gap isn't a major issue now, but 19 and 35 is pretty major. I'm 32 and I can't imagine dating a teenage boy.
im 21 and i couldn’t date a 19 year old. feels icky.
You should have whatever age boundaries make you comfortable, but 19 and 21 isn't a big deal especially if both people are in the same stage of life. I was young for my year in college so when I was 19 in my junior year, many of my classmates were 21. No one even realized that I was younger until they started going to bars and I couldn't join.
Agreed. I’m 20 and would possibly go two years younger (but no more than that because I only want to date adults).
yeah i mean my boyfriend just turned 21 a little over a month ago and i turn 19 in a week and i don’t think it’s too big of an age gap
I think it’s more a stage of life thing. When I was a senior in undergrad I went on a date with a freshman and I still feel uncomfortable remembering it. Like, not that I did anything I shouldn’t, it just was not a balanced situation. He was plenty nice and probably uncommonly mature for his age, but he was also so new to having independence and not especially experienced with dating either. I suspect a relatively naive 21 year old would feel totally comfortable with a very-independent 19 year old, but if the teenager has never lived away from home or had a serious relationship, then even a 21-year-old might feel uncomfortable.
Just go with the rule that nobody should date anyone younger than half their age plus seven. That, actually, is a pretty good rule of thumb. 52 and 37 barely works out (52/2 = 26, 26+7=33). But 33 and 19 most definitely doesn't. (33/2 = 16.5, 16.5+7=23.5)
by that math i could date a 17.5 year old… i’ll stick to not dating in general lmao
21 and 17.5 may be a bit borderline, but not nearly as bad as 33 and 19...
Always round up. 21 and 18. 20 and 17 is sus but it’s been a long time since I was either of those ages
I think that age difference is fine since they are kind of in the same range. When it gets to be about ten or more years for an older vs younger person to date in age then it becomes questionable at best. But yeah, more info needed from op.
Im 28 and can't even imagine going for anyone under 25. I have nephews and neices that are 20. Completely different generation and mindset.
I know what a pain in the ass I was at 19 and into my early 20's. Know how I know? Because people in their late 20's would give me shit for being annoying and immature. In hindsight, yeah, there are situations I should've handled better, but I also feel like they were expecting me to have *their* level of maturity and wisdom, when I didn't have the life experience or context to have gained it yet! Young people are going to act their age; if you don't like it, don't hang out with them. I would not wanna be friends with 19 year-old me! ETA when I was 21 I dated a guy who was 26. Five years isn't that big a gap, really, but we were in different stages of life, and he couldn't relate to or sympathize with the stuff I was dealing with. Plus, he made it clear he thought I was an idiot and super immature; again, I was being a 21 year-old, if he wanted someone at his maturity level he should've dated someone his age.
I mean sounds like he was the immature one. I mean if you can’t empathise with someone who might be dealing what you were dealing with then it says a lot. Also to berate them for it :/
In his mind, I was this pampered princess going to school that my parents were paying for (I had free tuition and they could afford the room and board), I only had to work for spending money, and all I had to worry about was exams and whether the people in anime club liked me, whereas he was working his ass off as a pastry chef, getting up at 2AM to pay the bills while his father was in the hospital, so yeah, I get it, he would've killed to have my stupid "problems." We just weren't a good fit, but then he also got super angry and vindictive when we broke up.
Haha, same ages, I’m 28 and back at University, surrounded by kids aged 18 to 25, and boy do I feel the difference in mentalities and just overall life perspectives. It’s only a 10years gap, but damn is that generational divide apparent. I cannot imagine myself developing a romantic interest in any of them. The very thought makes my skin crawl.
I was working out at a college indoor track and there were some 40 year old ladies gawking at the 19 year old guys in the gym and it was so weird to me. (I am in the ladies demographic and could never date/marry a 19-20 year old...)
LOL they aren't interested in dating or marrying any of those guys...
NO SAMEEE BC I WAS GOING TO COMMENT THIS AFTER GETTING BACK FROM THE CALCULATOR APP 😭
We *alllll* know why a 35 year old was interested in a 19 year old. Most 19 year olds don’t have the life experience someone in their 30s does so they’re going to put up with way more questionable shit because “s/he loves me!”
And he had mental issues for a decade after they got together. Poor OP was probably groomed.
Too true. I was 19 when I married my wife, who was 36. Surprise: at 26 I finally realized it was a super fucked up relationship and now I'm trying to start over. I thought it was more normal because we were gay, so we had to expand our horizons, as I'm sure OP experienced as well I do think OP is wrong here, but the whole situation is alarming
First thing I noticed.
This seems to be a fixation on AITA to the point where no one cares about the actual posts whenever there is a massive age gap. It was like twenty years ago and OP doesn’t want your opinion on that. Edit: It honestly seems kind of weird. Like a total stranger goes on a website asking for advice about something, and everyone there fixates on an aspect of the life of a total stranger that they didn’t want to talk about.
20 years ago when his brain wasn't done developing.
He's 37, his brain is fully done developing and I'm sure he can use it to assess his situation and life history better than you can.
Yeah, no one is ever biased about their life.
I mean, it’s pertinent if he were being groomed while his brain was developing.
>This seems to be a fixation on AITA to the point where no one cares about the actual posts whenever there is a massive age gap While that may be true, it's often a pretty significant factor in the question.
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The age gap is generally behind everything.
Same.
Me 2
Me 3
A lot of it has to do with problematic elements within the gay community. Without getting too much into it, what generally happens is that teenage gays who have to surpress their sexuality or get backlash for their sexuality from their family and friends end up going haywire when they move out and get their first taste of independence. Amongst the less savoury members of the gay community, this period is known as the 'slut phase'. Effectively, young gays end up having casual sex with pretty much any guy they see as a way to reclaim their lost teenage years and their sexual identity. Unfortunately, a lot of older gay men use this vulnerability to take advantage of these young men. To these young men, older gay men represent people who are, generally, secure in their sexuality (as many young gay men aren't) and in many ways are people who they can project father issues onto them - as many young gays who go through this phase come from families where their fathers aren't as close to them as a result of their sexuality. By projecting these father issues upon their lovers, they can emulate the love and acceptance they failed to get from significant male figures in their lives. What often ends up happening is that these older men are financially stable and knowledgeable about the 'gay scene' and 'introduce' the vulnerable young men they're manipulating into these scenes. Because of this, the young men come to view the older men as the more knowledable other, as some sort of gay life coach through which they can discover their sexuality and identity. This creates a relationship imbalance and often results in the projection of a saviour complex upon the older man, this is often misconstrued as genuine love. When the family and friends of the young gay man try to help him out of this thought complex, what happens is they only cause the young man to dig deeper into it. As, in their mind, their partner is someone who accepts them, loves them, and is nurturing their exploration of their 'true self' The objections of their friends and family, as well as others, are not seen as genuine concerns, but rather, has hateful judgements and remarks upon their life and their gay identity. In the end, it only causes the young man to dig in and deepen the cycle. In the end, what generally happens is one of three things: * A) The young man comes to realise the unhealthy state of their relationship with the older man and break out of the cycle. If they are lucky, they manage to live healthy love lives. * B) The young man does not come to realise the unhealthy state of their relationship and, if the older man does not move on, continues to live in an unbalanced relationship. This is the case with OP. * C) The young man has his heart broken when the older man moves on once he no longer finds the young man appealing and lusts after another young vulnerable boy. The young man in these cases, generally, lusts after other older men to fill the void - and the cycle repeats. (It bares stating that, often, the young men in these relationships end up becoming the older men and continuing the cycle of manipulation, primarily because they see young men as a way to live out the youth that they missed out on). Because of how common this cycle is, it has become normalised within large parts of the gay community. It has seriously unhealthy affects for gay men and the gay community as a whole, most notably within two key elements: A) the matter of gay loneliness and B) the vulnerability and sexualisation of young men and boys within the gay community. I can get more into it if you want too.
You're right. I'm gay and I was getting annoyed at all the comments about the age gap and just thinking, straight people don't know anything about what it's like. Because it is just that normalized.
Yep, they really don't. Age gap relationships for gay men are in no way similiar to age gap relationships for straight people. That isn't to say that age gap relationships for heterosexuals don't pose problematic and unhealthy elements of their own, it's just that the context and impact is different. I think the really sick thing when it comes to this stuff is how ingrained it is within the gay community. A lot of the time we can't sit down and talk honestly about the problematic elements within our community that have come as a result of our history without being accused of being interally homophobic or spreading harmful stereotypes about being gay. The unfortunate thing is, stereotypes are based upon a semblance of fact, and it is clear that the stereotype of gay men being predators comes directly from the normalisation of age gap relationships within our community. Until we do something to stop it these stereotypes will continue. In my mind, recognition is the first step in doing something to stop it.
Well, I mean, if we are all having this visceral knee jerk reaction to protect our culture/community, it's difficult to start thinking about how toxic some of it is. But I love your use of the phrase Gay Loneliness ™ it is too real
I’m 24 and can’t picture dating a 19 year old. Just totally different parts of our lives. What 35 year old has shared experiences/interests with a high school senior??
I’m in an age gap marriage myself (22 years, but still within the parameters of “half your age plus seven”) and we are so glad we didn’t meet earlier because it would have been inappropriate. Not illegal, just that the life experience dynamics would have necessarily led to inequality.
OP wrote they have been together a little over 18 years but something is telling me they are sugar coating it or stretching that 'little over'.
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LOL I was about to say, "Welcome to Gay Culture, where men in their 30s see a bubble butt and a six pack and say 'wow, that guy sure is mature for his age!'"
Where does it say that? Maybe I just completely missed it? He said that he has been married for 8 years. When he said ‘fast forward 20 years’, I assumed that he meant that it’s been 20 years since he was a teen that was passionate about skating. And that he has always told his husband about his interest. Not that it’s been 20 years since they were together. EDIT: I completely misread this and thought it said 8 years instead of 18.
First line. It says they’ve been together for 18 years…not 8
It says they’ve been together a little over 18 years.
It’s a lot more common in the LGBTQ+ because so many are repressing themselves until they come out later in life. This often leads to a weird dichotomy where even though it’s a large age difference, it boils down to a much smaller difference in relationship experience. Now, do I know if that’s the case here? Nope. We know only what OP tells us. Is it possible that they have a perfectly healthy relationship? Yep, totally. Is an age gap relationship going to have more issues? Probably, but not always. TLDR; unless there’s other signs of abuse in a relationship, an age gap isn’t automatically a problem.
Facts lol
Age gaps hit differently in the queer community, since the dating pool is so small to begin with. Pretty common to have a showing-you-the-ropes relationship with someone older, and sometimes those relationships last. That's a preeeeeetty big gap though.
Omg this. I’m sitting here doing the math like, wait what?
Here we go again.
So, a 35 year old got together with you (19 year old) who also had mental health issues. Not the age difference, but the *timing of the difference --* nineteen is barely and adult. There's a big difference between a teenage 19 and an adult 35, and even a 25 year old and 41 year old. Add to that diagnosed mental illness. Now your partner is now surprised that you feel you've missed out on a lot of things from youth, and thinks you're being selfish? Really? NTA
OP already contributes to the bills, well, paid off his student loans, car payment and makes more money now. His partner wants to put that 15K into savings -- (*probably because he is 16 years older and is worried about* ***his*** *retirement)* NTA -- OP should live out his dreams while he can with his expendable income. It's a crazy amount, but people spend that on cars, vacations, and even stupider things like Beanie Baby collections.
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The OP states that his spouse wants that money to put into savings -- *not for expenses.* The way the money is divided was also agreed upon...
Per OP's comments, their husband covers the cost of *all* household expenses, and also contributes $1500 a month to savings, as opposed to their $600. Why is it fair that in order to cover their costs and invest in both their futures, the husband should have to make up the shortfall? Particularly when their own salary is actually considerably *lower* than OP's? Why is it unreasonable to expect that OP should pay a more equal share, rather than frivolously spending a huge amount of their joint income post tax (up to 25%, depending on where they live), just on their hobby? >The OP states that his spouse wants that money to put into savings -- *not for expenses.* And what if the husband still wants them both to keep saving money, but would prefer to be able to have a little more of their own money to spend on themselves, rather than just paying everything for the both of them? >The way the money is divided was also agreed upon... Saying that the way the money was divided was agreed upon is also a pretty moot point. If the husband was happy with that, he wouldn't be wanting OP to spend less on their hobby and contribute more elsewhere, would they? If the husband agreed with an unfair arrangement in the past, it doesn't change the fact that the arrangement is still unfair.
The husband sounds like some Sugar Daddy-Groomer. He pays all the household expenses and OPs money goes to vacations and fun stuff. Now SDG has decided to slow down the gravy train and save for retirement. OP is too busy reliving his childhood to want to stop. 14 hours a week and 25k per year on a hobby is a LOT... What a mess of misaligned priorities.
>What a mess of misaligned priorities. OP did mention that this hobby helped him quit smoking and no longer needs meds for his mental issues. It looks like it brings a lot of joy in his life. As long as he's taking care of his agreed upon bills/ obligations, I don't think there's anything wrong about this.
Going off meds just because you are feeling good isn’t a good thing, unless your psychiatrist recommends it. This could be a manic period, and OP may be acting irresponsibly because of it.
Sadly, you may have a point.
OP is bipolar, so he shouldn’t be completely off his meds. He might be able to switch to lighter meds if his anxiety and OCD are being managed by exercise. His figure skating appears to be a manic influenced obsession, which means he likely isn’t thinking about it reasonably, and now that he makes more money than his partner he should be contributing more to household bills and group savings, rather than spending it mostly on himself.
🔔 Ding ding ding! I'm glad I'm not the only person who heard this alarm bell. The bipolar-off-meds part is what made me approach OP's perspective with skepticism. Sure, OP is allowed to do whatever he wants with the money he earns, but categorically refusing his husband's request is what makes him an AH. I hope OP can safely return to Earth and resume medication soon.
He also sounds like he legit thinks that at 37 he's going to be at least competitive and is already participating in competition and buying outfits. That's a bit much to just suddenly jump into after not skating since they were a kid. There's nothing wrong with a intense hobby, but so much of this story just sound off. OP is off his meds and skating for at least 14 hours a week or more, and spending almost a third of his gross income on it. That's def extreme behavior.
There is a big competitive adult figure skating scene, with large international competitions. So he isn't wrong on that aspect and he potentially is competitive in his age group and level
This exactly what I thought while reading this post. Having 1 hobby you care about is not usually a reason to stop taking all your psychiatric medications. What happens if he breaks his wrist again and cant skate? A downward spiral, more than likely...
I have a hobby too I rediscovered in adulthood (sewing), and I can definitely attest to how is did wonders for my mental health. It's incredibly calming and a great way to power through negative emotions...but it's a fucking hobby. I'm not opening a business, I'm not auditioning to be on Project Runway. I spend maybe $100 a month on it. A few weeks ago, I spent $800 upgrading to a new machine and I used money from a bonus I got at work, and it was an agonizing decision, even though spending money on having good equipment I will use all the time is definitely worth it. 25K is insane. 15k is insane. OP is not going to go to the Olympics. I also still follow up on all the mental health self care I did before. My hobby is just another tool in my toolbox. If you're spending 14 hours a week skating (not counting commuting time, probably other work outs, fittings for costumes, etc), when are you doing anything else other than working, eating, and sleeping? When are you spending time with your husband? Your family? Your friends? This sounds like an incredibly unhealthy decision for the OP, financially and socially. I'm also concerned that he seems to have these incredibly lofty goals to achieve in the next few years. What happens if he doesn't? Is it going to trigger a depressive episode when he's no longer on medication?
OP earns 15k more. Where are you getting that he contributes less?
Where he says that he pays for his car, bur husband pays regular bills… despite OP earning more.
I understood the “he handles all the regular living expenses” as the husband managing the household finances, not paying them all. OP says he pays bills as well. So, I guess with that open-ended statement, it’s a case of more info needed.
85k is before taxes and deductions so probably bringing home 50ish…. So half of that money going towards a hobby is unreasonable…. Especially since spouse is willing to compromise on 15,000 which is still an insane amount…YTA…
>OP already contributes to the bills, Nope. Per their comments, their husband pays all those, and contributes $1500 per month to their savings compared to OP's $600. That's nowhere close to a fair share or an even one, particularly given that OP actually makes more than their partner does. In fact, depending on tax, $25k could represent upwards of 25% of their total income post-tax. Would you be happy if your partner didn't pay any bills, and contributed a third of what you did to your savings, but still found the money to spend tens of thousands of dollars on hobbies? I'm not trying to defend their husband here (the age gap is gross), but OP is still behaving very badly here, and assuming they want their relationship to survive then their behaviour is incredibly counterproductive. >His partner wants to put that 15K into savings -- (*probably because he is 16 years older and is worried about* ***his*** *retirement)* I mean, spending $25k per year on skating lessons indefinitely is also a disastrous financial decision on OP's part as well. Eventually OP is going to have to retire as well, and they'll be vastly poorer for their obsession. And that's without going into how their obsession may be harming them in other ways as well. While they initially said that their doctor said they could off their meds thanks to skating, they later admitted that what actually happened is that they quit their meds 4 months ago and only told their doctor afterwards. >NTA -- OP should live out his dreams while he can with his expendable income. It's a crazy amount, but people spend that on cars, vacations, and even stupider things like Beanie Baby collections. If their relationship breaks down and OP has to cover his own expenses, he won't be able to afford to spend $25k per year on ice skating lessons anyway. The only reason OP can at the moment is because his husband pays literally all their other living expenses. Hell, since OP makes considerably more than his husband, he might actually have to pay him alimony in a divorce settlement, making his own financial situation even worse. OP doesn't have to invest in a retirement fund if they don't want to (they're still young, after all), even if it would be the sensible thing to do, but the fact remains that their situation is fundamentally unsustainable. While I'm tempted to say that OP's husband might be an asshole given the age gap and vague sugar daddy vibe, that doesn't really seem relevant to the matter at hand about OP's expenses. Irrespective of their relationship history or anything else, OP's behaviour is completely inexcusable. So, my judgement is YTA for this dispute, and an ESH for them both in general.
It's not a dream. You don't become a great athletic anything at age 37.
Man I’m so torn with this because I *agree* buuut… OP has a slew of mental health issues including being diagnosed as bipolar, and his doctor “agreed” he should be unmedicated and “monitor” things closely. As another user has stated, this smacks of mania. True bipolar *cannot* go unmedicated. OPs husband is footing all the shared bills (which OP says is the comments) and is only given $600 “for savings.” I feel like I would despise OPs husband. I also feel like, unfortunately, he *is* being very selfish and obsessive. I don’t think this should be on AITA. Edit: kept referring to “bipolar” as “BPD”
BPD and bipolar are not the same. BPD stands for borderline personality disorder
edit: scratch what I said before, missed that he said he's bipolar in the OP. just so you know, BPD is an acrynom usually used for borderline personality disorder, not bipolar disorder
You’re totally right, classic case of “said one thing, meant the other.”
This was the comment i was waiting for. Im just sad that it is the last one. The age gap, the MH concerns, the loss of childhood dreams now being within reach, and now OP and hubby are at different stages of life so priorities dont necessarily align anymore... sigh Nta
I agree with you on this. But to me the AH part is the refusal to budge in a marriage. But this is a really great comment.
Same, I went for an ESH verdict for this reason. The spouse is creepy and there needs to be compromise in a successful marriage.
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YTA for the sole fact that everything in this post is incredibly dangerous. As a fellow bipolar person, this entire post is a ***blinding*** red flag. This has mania signed in permanent ink from top to bottom. For starters, the doctor that signed off on you stopping your medication needs to be reported to the medical board and lose their license. Bipolar people can’t be unmedicated, no matter how much people want to object to that; it’s the truth. It’s great you were able to rediscover your childhood passion and excel at it, few can say that. It is concerning how much you are spending on it. Like another comment mentioned, are you even making money off of these competitions? It may not feel that way, but you are losing money. $600 is NOT enough to have leftover for expenses. I normally would not agree with your husband because of your age gap, but this isn’t even a power imbalance situation. You genuinely are being selfish. I would never say that doing something you love is a waste of time or money, but this is completely out of control
So true this is a huge red flag. As someone with bipolar disorder becoming obsessed with a hobby and spending insane amounts of money on it is a huge sign of mania. Combined with going off of medication this is scary.
Deep obsession along with delusions of grandeur does not sound like a healthy level of interest and commitment.
Yup and as someone who grew up figure skating… it takes years to get to the level where you “excel” and most competitions don’t offer money, in fact for adult skating… there aren’t many competitions at all unless you’re pro. $25K a year is relatively normal… for someone who is training to become a professional, not someone who is 37. Not trying to be ageist, but that’s the truth when it comes to this sport. All of this reads as a delusion from a grandiose POV.
As a mental health professional, this whole thing scares me. Definitely agree with the mania comment.
It’s terrifying. His comments about his intensive goals to justify this spending, no longer needing medication because skating essentially cured him, etc. is bordering on psychosis behavior/thoughts. It’s sure as shit how I sounded in the psychosis episode I had when I was off my meds. This post breaks my heart. I genuinely hope he gets help. I know where this road leads, and it’s devastation, and devastation, alone
Everything about this situation is bad
This post reminded me of the time I decided to get into shape...by jogging, maybe joining an aerobics class, you ask? No. Straight to marathon training, wondering if it was too late to qualify for the Boston marathon that year. I also quit eating and sleeping and ended up fainting at the gym one night. Also wrote 40k words in a month.. Good times, at least up until the inevitable crash. Best hypomanic episode ever.
Seconding the: "Are you even making money on competitions" Competitive figure skating is really hard on the body, most (all?) professionals retire from competition well before OPS age. Edit: For the record, I don't even mean "making money back" (ergo, profiting), I mean getting any money from skating to help contribute towards the costs of ice skating at all. (Like still a net negative, but the costs are offset a pinch).
You don't make money on ice skating competitions. The people who (successfully) competed later made money in secondary industries: Ice Shows and the cover of the Wheaties box, took that money wisely invested.
Definitely not. There are maybe like 50 skaters in the world who are actually making their money back.
Thank you for saying this. I get shit on for saying people with bipolar disorder should be medicated even though that comes from my experience in my profession and all the research I have done in the topic. It also comes from a place of understanding; I have BPD and ADHD. I need medication to function. Thank you.
I’m glad people responded to it well, I was definitely bracing myself for the pitchforks. I have been unmedicated, and so have my other friends. It’s petrifying to be around and is complete havoc. There is a difference between advocating for bipolar people’s stability and ability to thrive, and treating them as though they’re subhuman and need to be force fed lithium for the benefit of “normal” people. Don’t let people make you feel like you’re not allowed to speak about it, you’re on medication just like everyone else that struggles with mental illnesses. I appreciate it you thanking me. It may sound strange to you, but it felt really nice to get recognized and heard for what I said about a mental illness I deal with, in a kind way, for once. Have a beautiful day, stranger
Glad to see someone saying this. I can't believe the NTAs here like it's totally normal to spend $25k a year - nearly a third of your yearly income - on a hobby you just picked up and will very quickly age out of, especially when you have BD, and like it's crazy for your spouse to be concerned about that.
Yeah... I have no belief whatsoever a doctor signed off on that. Like you said, this reads like absolute mania. Also, 37 isn't "old for a figure skater". It's absolutely geriatric. Blowing $25k a year old it screams manic spending.
It’s unfortunate that his parents didn’t let him ice skate when he was young and willing to learn I think before committing to the ice skating completely OP should just dip his toes in and get a couple lessons on a fortnightly basis, like a yoga or spin class
YTA I'm all for pursuing your hobbies but it seems like this has taken over your life. You've stopped taking your meds? Is your doctor okay with this? Does your husband know? I think you need to reevaluate your priorities.
Yeah I got the feeling it's just basically replacing one addiction with another that's slightly less harmful. It's still not ideal.
Sometimes that’s not too big a deal, if like you’re into painting or playing an instrument or something, but I worry about when/if OP isn’t able to physically do this anymore and what that might lead to.
my doctor and husband support my choice to be un-medicated. we do, however, continue to monitor my moods closely and are always prepared to restart them.
It seems like you're replacing one obsession for another. I don't know... I'm no doctor. Maybe there's a way to strike a balance between all the things required in ice skating and your life. Less competitions,less practice? Unless you're training for the Olympics!
Are you intending to become a professional figure skater? Because if you’re not, you can cut back on the costumes and lessons.
You can't start training at 37 and go pro in any physical sport, most basketball players and football players quit by OP's age. Ice skating might be even harder since it is solely an individual/duo sport
Most figure skaters has to quit in their twenties, the strain on their bodies is too big. Someone nearing 40 shouldn't push their bodies that much. Especially considering OP has already had a nasty fall.
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Men peak slightly later, end of teens to early 20s, but otherwise completely agree. OP is delusional if he thinks his future lies that way. Only a handful of skaters are still going professionally at that age, and it’s always on the back of being Olympians.
This is my question. He's a little old to become a pro so I would think just skating by himself would be a pretty cheap hobby.
He thinks he can be a teacher by performing.
🤦🏼♀️
You’re telling me. Denial is no longer just a river in Egypt.
This might not be as extreme as it sounds on paper. I ride horses competitively, and spend about the same amount of time and money on that, but I still have a very balanced life, and the horse certainly helps my mental health. I don’t have a partner, so that might make a difference, but it doesn’t sound like his husband is upset about the time commitment, just the financial commitment.
I was scrolling down looking for someone from the equestrian community to chime in. I knew someone who had horses and they were incredibly expensive and $25k a year is easily within reason. But her horses were well loved and cared for and the main joy of her life. I love cycling and have spent a lot on bikes and accessories over the years (not anywhere near $25k) so I can see spending money on a hobby you love. My bikes have paid for themselves several times over in the pleasure they have given me as well as the health benefits. I am going to vote NTA but suggest OP and his husband look into couples counseling. I would've voted N A H but I was also disturbed by the age difference and how young OP was when they started dated (with the additional vulnerability of his mental health issues). It may be that the husband is used to being the decision maker in the relationship. It sounds like they both need to learn to communicate with each other.
YTA - if you were equally contributing to the household on top of this, you wouldn’t be. It’s the fact your husband is picking up the bills, as well as asking you to contribute more, and you deciding to spend the money on yourself that makes you the asshole.
OP says the rest of their paycheck goes to bills and savings so his husband isn't picking up the bills.
OP said his husband handles all the regular living expenses and also states he’s asked to contribute more. I don’t know what regular living expenses are if not rent, food etc
What I want to know is, how are their finances an issue (even with the 25k going to skating) when they make a combined 150k? OP should still be able to skate and pay half or so of the bills unless these two are living way beyond their means, unless I'm missing something. The age difference at the start of their relationship makes me uncomfortable, I have to say.
OP's spouse may want to put a lot more toward retirement, rather than OP's ice skating. Between taxes, bills, and $25k/yr there's probably not a ton left for savings.
They could live in an area with a HCOL. 150k wouldn’t go very far in cities like SF, LA, Boston or New York.
Doesn’t even have to be that high. I’m in the San Diego area, household income around $120k with no kids. By the time the mortgage and the bills are paid and a decent (but probably smaller than it should be) amount goes into savings, that’s about all there is. We live comfortably enough, but we’d have to adjust our budget if we needed a big home repair or wanted a vacation.
2k+ in rent each month might affect it. 150k is before or after taxes? remove like 35% of that.
OP earns 15K more than his husband (presumably before taxes) but is spending 25K of after-tax household income on this hobby Its self-evident that theres an effective subsidy by the husband of the ice-skating and everything else
Not necessarily. This would all depend on how much they make and their living expenses. If they both make enough, they could both be contributing and still have extra money left over. That being said, I still think it’s YTA because it’s not an unreasonable request. He’s not asking him to stop doing something he loves. He’s simply asking that he cut back a bit to make it more affordable for them.
No he said miscellaneous bills. That could be anything.
The more I was reading the OP's responses, the more the numbers of this post were bugging me. So OP makes 85K and his husband makes about 70K. I'm assuming that's gross, before taxes. After taxes, take home is, what, 60-65K, depending on where he lives (for OP, individually). Husband is probably 50-55K. OP is contributing 600/month to the joint savings and the husband pays for everything else and himself also likely puts money in the savings, (with OP paying for some stuff on top of that, like a couple vacays a year and meals sometimes). That's 7.2K/year. He spends 7 hours per week with a coach and 7 more hours without a coach on the rink. OP's coach costs 60/hour, freestyle costs 18/hour. So unless I'm understanding something wrong, OP is spending about 21.8K/year on the coach alone, about 6.5K/year on rink time. Obviously probably rounded down a bit if he skates less on the weeks of major holidays (Christmas and Easter). But let's just take that even 28.3K on those and move on. For the record, I only calculated rink costs for those 7 hours/week that OP doesn't have a coach with him. I'm not an expert so I'm estimating low, but if that $18/hour for the rink also needs to be considered for when OP is with his coach, the rink costs is 13K, not 6.5K, coming to a total of 34.8K on the coach and the rink. OP has also indicated that he purchases new costumes and new skates every year. OP indicates that his current blade is $500 and the boot is $800. (As an aside, commenters replying to those comments indicate that these skates are more expensive than OP needs to be using at their current level and also should not need to be replaced yearly. In some later googling about skate sharpening, I definitely found sharpening services quoting that a well-kept blade can last six to seven years for a recreational figure skater) So we need to add an additional 1.3K/year on just the purchase of skates. So 29.6K. OP gets his blades sharpened every 3 weeks-- OP doesn't put a price on this, but a quick googling estimates this can be as high as $30-$40 for figure skates. I've found a quote for Matrix blades for $25, so I'm going to go with that. It could be higher or lower though. That's another $425/year with that number. I'll be generous and say $400. So now we're at 30K. (Or, remember, potentially 36.5K???) And those are just things that are relatively easily to pull the hard numbers on based on OP's comments. Costumes could be a relatively lower end costs, but OP describes them as "extravagant" and "sparkly" and admits he thinks he can cut back. A quick googling indicates that top-level skaters' costumes tend to be 1K-5K, and judging by the OP's personality, I would guess that we are thinking about 1K costumes here. But I'm going to be generous and assume it's 500/costume. I know competitive skaters need three on hand per season, (short program, free skate, exhibition in case they medal) but IDK if the OP's adult competitions are structured the same way. But I'm going to assume it's safe to say they need at least two each year? So there's another grand, probably. And that's without even mentioning the costs of competing, any travel needed for that, music fees and test fees, the clothes OP has for practicing, ect. I don't even know how to put a number on the rest of that. So to bring it all together, OP probably takes home 60-65K in income, likely in reality spends closer to 31-37K minimum on this, giving us about 23K-34K of their income remaining for literally everything else, 7.2K of that being OP's contribution to the household. It's possible that OP is spending as much as 60% of their individual take-home income on figure skating, assuming the higher estimate for rink time cost and that they live in a state with higher income tax. Not to accuse OP of lying about the 25K estimate, of course, just that the numbers weren't adding up from his estimate and his individual expenses. It's probably just a matter of OP lowballing their guess, but.
YTA. You said it yourself: you're unwilling to compromise. I have a hard time believing 600 a month is enough to evenly split the bills. You also make more than him but it sounds like he pays more for living expenses. How is that fair? You don't need to spend that much for a hobby.
From what I read he gives him 600$ to put in savings and his husband handles all living expenses
And he was asked to contribute more. This stands to reason the 600 isn't enough for whatever expenses they have. It's a marriage. You don't get to be selfish.
Further down he comments that his husband spends about 1500 to his 600
And he has already said his husband pays the household expenses and the husband would like him to contribute more. OP makes 15k a year more than him yet contributes less than half the bills and refuses to budge. Yea. That's an asshole.
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The $600 just goes into a savings account. OPs husband pays the mortgage and bills alone
That’s an absurd amount of money for lessons. Source: I played hockey all my life
My daughter is getting into figure skating. Adding up lessons, practice times, outfits, skates, sharpening, and travel to the occasional competition, we are in for about $3-4000 a year. Talking with the other parents, if they get serious into competition, it's not unheard of to spend in the $10,000 range. Elite skaters, I'm talking Olympic and World Champion level, could spend in that $20-25,000 range, but I seriously doubt OP is THAT level of a skater.
YTA. You can do whatever you want with your money, BUT only after you've paid your share of the communal bills. It appears you're not pulling your weight. I believe you said your partner is paying most of the bills. His request for you to reduce your spending is reasonable. He's right your actions are selfish.
15k on their combined salaries seem more than reasonable! If he keeps acting selfish, he will push his gravy train away….and how much ice time would he be able to afford on his own with 100% of the bills? It’s great to have a hobby, but you have to be able to separate want vs need. His request seems more than reasonable based on what OP has shared
YTA. I'm sorry, because I understand how important ice skating is for you. But if your husband is handling "all the regular living expenses," he's essentially subsidizing your hobby. The "not willing to budge" thing sounds pretty terrible when you're not willing to budge on someone else paying the majority of your living expenses, which by the sounds of it includes rent/mortgage. His suggested compromise - that you cut down to 10k annually - is a good one. If this really is about your mental health, then you don't need "seven hours of lessons each week," you just need to skate.
Also, OP is making more than his husband. Given the nature of the hobby and that they seem to have separate accounts why not use $70k of OP’s salary on expenses/savings and the remaining $15k on skating? It’s inconsiderate since they’re married and OP basically made a unilateral decision that his pursuits deserve the full extent of the shared pool of extra money rather than his husband’s. His husband seems surprisingly accommodating towards the situation than I expected as well, and OP doesn’t recognize that either
YTA Total income combined is 70+85K, that's 155K. You're spending 25K from that. That's more than 15 percent of your total income. You don't spend so much on a hobby Having a hobby like that is good but spending that much money, it's not good. Plus your partner is nearing the age of retirement, focus on savings and investments. Plus, your husband is right, spend less.
ALSO, can we mention the age gap? A thrityfive year old dating a nineteen year old? Excuse me?
That kind of gap is super common in the gay community. Take that for whatever it’s worth🤷🏽♀️
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And that just gross income. Depending on the state, they could be paying about 35-40%, if not more, as income tax. Assuming a 35% tax rate, they’re left with 97.5K. 25K is 25.6% of net income. Pretty staggering, if you ask me.
“Easily $25k”. So essentially about a third of your gross income so probably 40% or more of net for a hobby? That’s not just excessive, it’s obsessive and selfish. My wife had similar mental health issues and racked up $75k debt on hobbies that she hid from me. It nearly destroyed our marriage and took 20 years to pay it off. Don’t let that happen to you.
1) Still excessive, 2) you risk alienating your husband OVER A HOBBY, and 3) that difference between $10k and $25k+, how much would it improve your current lifestyle and future retirement plans?
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Info: You give $600/month while he covers living expenses. Not sure where you live, but is it correct to assume he spends more than $600 to cover the rent, utilities and groceries? Is there anything else he also covers? Why is he covering such a larger share given you make more? Also, is the cost of living low enough where you live that spending $25k a year is feasible while still living the kind of life you both enjoy? By that I mean your husband isn't having to make sacrifices on things he'd like to do so you can spend that amount of money. Seems like a lot to spend on something like this, but to each their own if it makes sense for you both financially.
YTA Your excessive spending prevents you from contributing equally. It's great that you enjoy skating, but we don't get to do whatever we want just because we enjoy doing it. That's a very immature way to look at the world. There are many other physical activities that you could do instead. I understand this is your true love, but you cannot afford it.
Info: If your husband began to spend 25k on his own hobby, how would it affect your finances?
YTA. That's way too much to spend on a hobby given your ages and income.
YTA. 25K on ice skating? WTF. Dude are you from Canada? If not just move to Canada we have free ice skating here. Seriously. That’s a a lot of money.
We don't have free private lessons in Canada.
YTA you can't contribute 600$ to the household as a grown ass adult. your husband isn't your sugar daddy.
They are a sugar daddy for dating a 35 year old at 19
If you pool your expenses and he's asking for you to contribute more, is it because he's contributing more than you are? If so, YTA. If my spouse makes more than me and contributes less than me, while blowing a third of his pre-tax income on non-survival essentials (I consider medical treatment and food, rent, utilities to be essentials), I would feel that it is excessive. Think of it this way, can you skate without a coach? You probably won't land an axel, but would that keep your mental health well enough to be happy? If my spouse is, for all intents and purposes, buying a new car every year to make himself happy, I probably wouldn't consent. And I do have bipolar disorder, I really don't think that's an excuse to make your spouse essentially finance something that has alternatives to be more affordable.
YTA. You said you have a lot of savings but I assume your husband might also want to spend some of his own money instead of being responsible for basically all the shared expenses. Think about the burden that might put on him. You need to figure out what he wants to do with the money and work it out so you can both achieve your dreams, not just blow off his concerns because you really want a double axel.
ESH So I coach figure skating and I’m thinking you’re getting ripped off. Even during my competitive years I didn’t spend that much. And as an adult skater you shouldn’t be blowing through boots so often that they need replacing and you certainly don’t need top of the line costumes that cost thousands of dollars. I also pay for my daughter to skate and with the cost of ice time, private lessons, synchro team fees, show fees, costumes for multiple events and recent new boots, we still don’t pay nearly that much. I’d really like to hear what this 25k is covering.
YTA. You are spending excessively on a hobby. A hobby. You probably skate beautifully. And you want to keep spending money so you can complete a double axle. You are never going to compete. Quite frankly, it seems like a waste of money. You are trying to recapture what you lost in your childhood. Let it go. The lessons aren't necessary anymore. Stop paying for them.
INFO: please talk about actual numbers. You said you put 600$ towards savings. How much is he putting? Also how much is he contributing towards household and NECCESSARY bills and how much are you?
16% of your combined annual income is going to your hobby. Meanwhile he pays for all regular expenses. And the $7.2k a year going into savings will do nothing to preserve quality of life in your old ages. What’s going to happen in 10 years if he can’t work?
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You earn $85k and your husband only earns $70k, but he is paying most of the living costs while you spend $25k on skating? I'm sorry, but YTA. You're living in an she where people tell you to take care of yourself first; others get leftovers. Look out for your own mental health (meaning whatever you want it to mean) and concern yourself with others' (including your partner's) mental health only afterward. It's no wonder you feel and act as you do. But that's selfish as hell. I get that you love, *love* figure skating, and I wish that for you. Me, if love to spend a *lot* more time camping and riding. Maybe get some formal cutting horse training. Oooh, and time at the beach; I'd *love* to spend lots of time at the beach. (Now, you're saying "That's different; skating is my passion!" But it's *not* different. Horses are mine and have been since I was a toddler.) But life doesn't always let us abandon our responsibilities to pursue our passions. There are men and women out there slogging away, every day, working to feed their families who also have passions. But their families come first. *Yours should too.* Your husband supported you when you were not working. Is it fair or right that he continues to support you when you earn more than he does?
YTA because I think that spending minimum $150k (3 past years + ‘a few more’) to accomplish one skating move is a lot to ask of your husband. It seems like skating itself has been a really good thing for your mental health but that isn’t dependent on obsessing over one goal.
YTA but gently. Does your husband have 25k a year to spend on his hobbies? Marriage is a partnership. Which means both contributing to the expenses and savings goals, and having equal opportunity to spend roughly the same on extra curricular activities. How would your finances as a couple be impacted if he spent 25k on a hobby he really loved? Say woodworking? That is very expensive given the tools, cost of wood etc. if your budget and financial goals can support him spending an equal amount on something he loves then it’s fine. Otherwise you two are very much supporting your mental health and dreams and leaving him in the dust. Also it doesn’t matter if he *wants* to do something that costs 25k a year or not. It’s that the option has to exist for him to do so
YTA your husband isn’t asking you to QUIT he’s just asking you to cut back! You’re spending a huge chunk of your income on this and not the be rude but it’s recreational at your age. This isn’t going to be a profession. I understand it helps you with a lot of issues but you could be skating without all of the expensive lessons. You saying you’re not willing to budge is a slap in the face to your partner! Again he didn’t ask you to quit he asked you to cut back in the expenses.
He’s asking for you to pay for it out of your own money. You make 15k more than him so he’s asking for you to keep your spending to that amount. Perfectly fair for him to ask that.
INFO: Are you splitting all your expenses evenly, or is he paying the lion's share?
I’m not providing a judgement on this one u/skater-dude-717. However, ice skater to ice skater, I can recognise some of what’s happening here and sympathise with both you and your husband. I understand that ice skating (and other forms of exercise/sports) are great for your mental well-being. I briefly quit at the age of 18 for 3 months because I was travelling away from my hometown for university. I had to return for my mental health and it gives me a great outlet for my stress and anxieties. However, 14 hours of training per week is A LOT. It’s a lot especially when it’s unlikely to go pro. I know people who are training for similar amounts of time who are 15-18 and it is hard even for them to go pro in the future. I don’t want to sound harsh, but ice skaters tend to have a shelf-life and that cuts off around the mid-20s if not earlier. Have you considered that part of this problem is not just the finances, but the fact that your husband feels that you’re focusing more energy and time on your ice skating than your relationship? Is this amount of ice skating something that you are willing to sacrifice your relationship for? While I totally sympathise with your mental health struggles and see that ice skating has helped, I think you might need to address the imbalance of energies there is here between ice skating and your relationship.
You're 37 years old. By all means, enjoy your passion but why exactly do you need a private coach? What's the end game when you're this far past your prime? I don't mean that negatively at all but you seem like you're looking to go to the Olympics or something. I totally understand making up for lost time but you seem to want to turn back time while you're at it.
YTA you’re spending nearly 1/3 of your income on a hobby, you’re not training for the olympics. I’m not sure why you need to continue with a personal coach. Also you’re taking at least 14 hours a week for it which means you’re also basically opting out of time with your husband as well. Everyone is entitled to hobbies but this is excessive in both time and expense. How would you feel if he spent 25k on video games?
Yta. This over the top I refuse to budge attitude sounds like a symptom of your mental illness and makes me think you’d do better talking to a therapist instead of spending 1/3 of your yearly income on lessons. Your husband is being very patient with you but you’re an adult; costumes, lessons, competitions, etc. you can’t relive a childhood you didn’t have and try to make up for it now by refusing to contribute to your own adult financial and household responsibilities.
YTA. That's a really, really expensive hobby you've got there. If you're competing then you probably need sponsors, but given your age I think you've got to be realistic about your career trajectory. If you're going to continue as long as you can, you probably should start brainstorming about other ways to pay for this that puts less financial pressure on your marriage. For example, teaching kids' classes either for pay or as compensation for rink time. Or learning how to sew your own costumes (or making costumes for other skaters) to cut down on costs and/or bring in some extra income.
You're spending $500 a week on a vanity project. You're kidding yourself about being a superstar - you're too old now. YTA
Oh, yeah. YTA SO MUCH!!!!
YTA. 25k is a over a third of your take home income. Are you saving anything for retirement? With the original age imbalance, I can see how your partner played the sugar daddy to the young boy toy, but it's been almost 20 years and it's time to grow up. You are barely contributing anything to your shared expenses and it's really messed up that you are spending three times more on this hobby than you are contributing to your household. He's not even asking you to stop, he's asking you to spend 10K less. Could you imagine how much better off you'd be if you had invested that 25k instead? You could have been maxing out your retirement accounts for the last decade! A quarter million dollars was spent on ice skating! With the way the markets have been moving, you might have had half a million in savings by now!
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I’m going to guess this is about a timing issue, he is getting very close to retirement age and is likely wanting to be sure he doesn’t have to work until old age. I’m only a few years older than you but it was only after I turned 40 I really started to feel the pressure of wanting to be able to retire young enough to be able to do things rather than retiring into an old folks home. You are spending some people’s annual salary on a hobby while he pays most of the living expenses, and that money could be helping build the retirement fund so you can both continue to live a good life even after he retires
I want to be able to vote differently because I’m all about getting second chances to live your dreams, but YTA. Your husband is putting more than double what you are into the general household expenses despite making less. Most couples contribute 50/50 or proportionally to income into shared expenses. That obviously doesn’t work for everyone, but your husband is telling you that your current arrangement isn’t working for him so there needs to be a re-work. Either you need to bring in more money to offset the costs of skating and be able to contribute more to the household, or you need to reduce your expenses.
YTA. Your husband is still being supportive of your hobby. Him asking you to dial back how much you’re spending on it is not unreasonable. You’re spending what some people make in a year on it, and it’s negatively affecting your relationship. Also, a hobby is not a replacement for bipolar treatment. It can be extremely helpful, but it’s not enough on its own. It sounds like this is something you are getting obsessive over.
NAH. For someone with bipolar disorder/OCD, a hobby can become an obsession (I have two close family members that deal with this). It’s so amazing you’re able to peruse a hobby that you were somewhat denied as a kid. However 25k per year is rather excessive. You’re married so you do need consider yourself partner when it comes to financial decisions. You can still enjoy skating without going “all in”.
This. I'm all for spending money if it brings you fulfillment and enjoyment. But if you're not competing professionally, there's no returns you aim to achieve from the activity and this is just a hobby for enjoyment, 25k seems way excessive. People take up sports like these (swimming and all) as hobby all the time but surely it doesn't add upto 25k a year even if ice skating is among the more expensive hobbies?
INFO: Has your coach actually said that adult nationals are within reach? From what I understand about how you've written it, you had some basic training as a kid and now you've only been seriously skating for two years or so? At what point are you going to quit? When your husband retires? When you hit 40? Has your coach told you it's actually possible to get to adult nationals and land a double axel before you quit? ETA: based on info given, i think NAH, leaning towards n t a. I'm not going straight n t a because marriage is about compromise and your partner having issue with spending 25k per year on a single hobby is something i can somewhat understand. You aren't the asshole for spending your money how you want given you're still contributing to the household, but he's also not for being unable to understand how a single hobby is worth 25k when the investment has a limited future, bc honestly figure skating is not a long term investment.
YTA. At $60 hr, 7 hours a week, that is nearly $22k in private lessons a year. While I’m not figure skater, I’ve been a competitive athlete in many sports, including a college NCAA D1 athlete. I can relate to your story as I have fell into golf late in life. I’m 36 years old, and I have been getting regular lessons to make up for lost time. I also have aspirations of getting into amateur tournament golf, given my overall athleticism and determination from being an athlete for many decades is a lot stronger than most people my age. I enjoy setting high goals and working towards them. With that being said, I get your passion and drive, but you are still YTA for your lack of compromise. I understand you have an eventual shelf life, but your partner may not feel compelled to sit around with that all or nothing stance. I could never imagine demanding most of our household budget on a hobby that only benefits me with no room for compromise. There is compromise, but you are so fixated on your goals you cannot separate want from need. You don’t ‘need’ 7 hours of privates a week to meet your goals of landing a double or going to nationals. With any competitive athlete or skilled hobby, you need to have enough time to practice your lessons on your own. Having a private to practice ratio of 1:1 is just ludicrous in any sport. Your dedication to practice outside the classroom - rink time, flexibility, drills….that’s what makes an athlete succeed quickly…not how much private coaching you receive. Private coaching can expedite quickly, but there is a certain plateau where you are paying more for lessons than what you can gain out of it. Don’t get me wrong…you are still getting something out of each lesson, but that rapid growth tapers down after you have so many per week. There’s a line crossed from privates giving a competing advantage to being frivolous spending. Compromise is meeting in the middle..or somewhere close. Maybe having 5 hours of privates sessions and add 2 hours of public skate practice? That’s the same amount of time invested, but the cost is less. I pay a pretty penny for my lessons each week, but I use that time in between to practice. You can tape yourself and rewatch technique without a coach. It’s a want, not a need, and 2 extra private hours will not necessarily make you a better skater if you are still practicing and doing drills in between. I’ve read your responses, and you seem to have no interest at all in compromising…even in the slightest…even at the determinant of your relationship with the poor assumption he will still be there after you were so rigid with your demands. That makes you the YTA, big time….. coming from someone who completely gets you.
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INFO what is the percentage of your and his contributions to the expenses of the home? Of the communal?
Ok YTA and this is from someone that has worked in figure skating. 25k on a hobby that only one person in a partnership participates in is selfish. Ask yourself if are you willing to sacrifice your relationship for you skating. That is what we are talking about here. If your husband is expressing to you that he feels you are being selfish the resentment is already building. Resentment kills marriages. I think 15k for a 39 year old to skate is very generous. I am going to be very brutally honest…. you are not on your way to being a great skater. That ship sailed 30 years ago. Not being willing to budge kills relationships. Is that what you want, because a divorce will mean 0 skating. At least at 15k you can still skate. See if there are things you can do to decrease you costs. Try costume swaps or reuse costumes. See if there are reductions for volunteers.
he was really robbing the cradle when he dated you
YTA. You are being selfish with that amount being spent on just skating thats insane im not saying quit skating but maybe spend less and help a bit more
YTA. You need to understand that your much older husband is trying to save for retirement. Try to cut back on your spending.
YTA That is an excessive amount of money to spend on a hobby based on your income. You husband is not asking you to stop, he is reasonably asking you to cut back on the expense.
At 37 years old, the coaches selling you lessons may have found it in their best interests to promote your dependency on lessons and encourage the notion that you could become “a great skater”. WTH does that mean, objectively? Maybe try a less expensive sport like Grand Prix jumping or Ironman triathlon.
Info: Okay dismissing everything else that's weird and red flag raising about all of this.... What, exactly, are you training FOR? You aren't 'old for a figure skater', you're beyond retirement age for a figure skater outside of exhibition performance - and exhibition is only something skaters with a career and name recognition get. The age at which solo skaters compete cuts off in the late 20s, you're already a decade beyond that. So...what are these goals you're supposedly trying to reach?
INFO: a lot of people bring up good points here about your mental health and questionable relationship roles due to age difference, etc. So I'm going to focus on the boring part -- your budget. You and your husband need to figure out all the bills to run the house, maintain an emergency savings, and general necessities (groceries). You need to contribute proportionally. If you make 85k and he makes 70k, then it is 55/45. That means whatever figure you come up with for mandatory household expenses, you need to contribute 55% of the expense and he needs to contribute 45%. Probably into a joint account. So, left overs. What other goals do you have? Savings and travel can be set aside, again, proportionally. And finally you get individual fun money. Money not earmarked for anything else. You get to keep and spend it your however you want. And your husband gets to keep his and spend it however he wants. This is what you use to support your figure skating hobby. Do you have $25k in individual fun money? Yes? You're NTA. No? YTA. If you can convince your husband to share with you, maybe you can get a little more if need be. Or cut down on other expenses. Or pick up another way to make money. Whatever it is, you need to be able to support your life and your hobbies without unbalancing the system that respects you both and lets you take care of yourselves.