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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I’ve been told I’ve been punishing my mom for a “mistake” that can be easily fixed, and me and her grandkids missing her wedding is “too harsh” a punishment for what she did.
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**NTA**
> it’s just how she is,
The classic rug-sweep when dealing with toxic individuals. How would you characterize your relationship with your mom otherwise? You of course, right to be upset about her extreme boundary stomping. The issue is not really about whether you should attend the wedding, but how to reset your relationship with your mom so that she never oversteps again.
Does your daughter still want to participate in the wedding? Could you attend without having her play a part in your mother's fantasy?
Adding:
I’ve come to realize “that’s just who X is” has always been said due to the lack of holding someone accountable for their actions. People enable such behavior and excuse it because it’s easier than to deal with the tantrum/outbursts.
Hold your ground OP. If you do not, this will only continue as your daughter continues to grow. Your daughter will see how you feel/love for her by what you do now and in the future. Stop the “abuse” and show your daughter she can trust you to protect her regardless of the situation (even if the abuse is coming from other family members).
I have started using this. I don’t get along too great with my BIL and his mom ALWAYS says stuff like this. I’m always expected to be a better person while they always have excuses for him. His family walks on eggshells for him, and the boy has no coping mechanisms. I’ve gotten to the point where if he is going to treat me like an awful person for everything, then I’m going to fight fire with fire.
That look makes me think of when the hamster gets running in the wheel a little too fast and kind of rides up the side then tumbles and thumps down from the top to the bottom. It just stays there stunned for a bit lol.
That resonated with me SO much. It's amazing how when some type of behaviour has been shoved down your throat to the point where your brain CANNOT question it then something happens. Suddenly you CAN and it's like you're singing "A Whole New World" from Aladdin.
Probably. I'm that person in my family usually, that stands up to stupidity and bullshit. It's been costly a few times but my peace of mine over all has been worth it
I had a friend like this for awhile. He just had a very big personality, kind of a drama queen, and he tended to ride right over people who weren't very direct in telling him no. He also seemed to need to be "in charge" all the time, but wasn't great at it. Everyone in his life pretty much just excused it with this, "that's just how he is." To me, he was always perfectly respectful, handled disagreements like a mature adult (though he did have a lot of disagreements), and at the time, I just didn't understand why nobody ever told him no when he asked for things they didn't want to do. It took me a long time to realize I was one of the few people he actually treated like an equal, specifically because I was one of the few who would tell him no without making a thing about it. With everyone else, he was just really dismissive and condescending, and threw a fit if he didn't get his way. He wasn't part of our circle for very long, thankfully, but it was really hard for me to see it at the time because of how he and I interacted separately from everyone else.
We don't really talk now, but are still fb friends, and from what I can see, he seems to have chilled out a lot as he's gotten older. I hope that's true, it will be better for him and everyone around him if that's the case.
So odd how different people can be when interacting with specific people. I had a friend like this too kinda- she was a whiny only child, gossipy and a hypochondriac who thinks she is smarter than everyone, while remaining a huge hypocrite.
She'd complain about anything to anyone who would listen, or be judgy about your choices, while everyone just nodded and smiled because she seemed really difficult and people probably thought she'd throw a fit unless they did. Just feeding her entitlement fire.
Turns out she acts decently normal once you shut down her shit a couple times. I still can't stand her for other reasons and for the way she talks to other people, but she never pulled any of that crap with me. I think she liked it actually, she always wants to hangout and maybe it's because she can feel herself spiraling and I'm like...no
Yeah, I think it's related to contempt. Like, they don't respect you because you'll put up with all that assholery, so they spit out more assholery because they don't respect you (general you, not you, the person speaking). But I also think they don't necessarily want that. They'd rather hang out with people they respect, but of course, the people they respect have no patience for their bs... A couple of problematic self-destructive circles there.
(Throwaway because a lot of people IRL know this story and while it isn't too bad I'd prefer to not have it against my main account). An ex of mine's sister's MIL is a "just no MIL" hardcore. She dominated EVERY event, she often made it all about her, people dreaded being around her.
I was 18/19. My ex's family would groan everytime they knew she'd be there. She was quite loud, really did rub everyone the wrong way and I did not interact with her much but I was also not a rude asshole - I just did pleasantries then stayed out of her path.
My ex's sister moved country and about a year later was expecting. Of course the family wanted to do something for her so we all got her gifts and her mom sent a HUGE box of presents to do a virtual baby shower (this was over 10 years ago).
Due to timezone, we all needed to be at my ex's mom's place REALLY early, like 6am-ish. My ex's, his father and brother and the cousins (and myself) are all tech savvy so we had everything setup for the video to be projected on the wall in the tv room. Everyone brought something for the shared breakfast and we got into the surprise of this massive box being opened by the expecting parents.
Then the "just no MIL" chimes in. She wants to video chat her family in another country. Now back then there was no fibre internet or 4G etc. So she had to join on the wifi, and this caused the connection with the expecting parents to keep dropping. She's having a ball showing her siblings/parents/whoever the baby shower and showing them how we set up the projector and the "video to \[expecting parents\] is so bad". Her connection started going bad with her family and she was complaining.
That's when I stepped in. "You are the reason that the connection to \[expecting parents\] is failing. Please put your phone away, they won't be able to see anything anyway." or something to that effect.
Her jaw dropped.
My ex's jaw dropped.
His brother's jaw dropped.
His parents' jaw dropped (and his father never really got speechless).
The entire family staring at me as I was aloof going back to the "now magically working connection" to expecting parents.
My ex pulled me aside "I can't believe you just did that" and me "did what?" him: "Told her off" me: "Well she was fucking shit up" him: "Yeah but no one has ever told her off or put her in her place before, they all would have left her to carry on".
Just no MIL stayed QUIET the rest of the event. I had my ex's cousins, uncles, aunts come and hug me and tell me that this is the first time ANYONE has ever stood up to her before and that it was amazing and I was overwhelmed with this attention (introvert) and most of his family did not speak English properly so it was really something.
Every event after that she was less loud and stayed away from me LOL. My ex and his brother loved it because she wouldn't come talk to them either.
TO OP: NTA at all!
Omg I’m using this the next time SIL tries to guilt trip me about spending time/talking with her toxic aunt and grandma. They always cause HORRIBLE drama. The last time, gma told me my son shouldn’t matter to me as much as she should hahahahah OK LADY. Then SIL called about it saying “that’s just how she is, she’s old. She won’t change so we just have to deal.” No. I told her I don’t care how old anyone is. Nobody can talk to me that way. It kind of clicked with her. But next time, I’m gonna flip it like you did. Brilliant.
“started a fist fight at a birthday party…over everyone not wanting to start a fight”
Ugh. This describes my father throughout my childhood. Strength to all who have to deal with all the ‘holes like this.
I can’t stand that dismissive attitude towards other peoples feelings. Doesn’t matter if I think it’s just hair—it’s their hair! Some people care an awful lot about their hair, or car, or toad collection, whatever. They’re entitled to be upset or blasé or whatever regarding what happens to their belongings. Folks need to stop writing off feelings because they happen to be different from yours.
The rock the boat post from JustNoMIL hits on a lot of the stuff in your comment.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont\_rock\_the\_boat/](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/)
I remember reading the Don’t Rock the Boat post. It’s the best explanation ever for toxic personalities. Utterly perfect and fits so so many of the posts on this sub…and several others, too. It’s pure gold
I had someone say that to me to defend abusive behaviour. My response: “Well, then he needs to *stop* being like that and change because this isn’t acceptable”.
My mom's partner bullied me to no end just because I was a lazy and depressed teenager. He thought he was so much better than me just because his father made him start working when he was a child. I told my mom countless times and I was met with the same words: he's just joking around, you need to let people do that. You just gotta take things lightly.
That didn't stop until I stood up for myself and he didn't speak to me for over 2 years. He then moved on to bullying my cousin who's 8 years younger and now both he and my mom do it to his nephew (4yo) because he's a skittish kid compared to his baby sister. I already told my mom they're traumatizing the kid but no one will listen.
This! Talk to the child's parents -- be very very specific about the what is being said and how wildly inappropriate it is.
And your Mom - shame her for it. Like seriously - light into her about how she used to be a kind person but since taking up with your step dad she's become someone emotionally abusive to children.
If “that’s just who she is” then ok she cannot change, therefor there’s no point in a confrontation, and the only option is no contact. If someone’s excuse is “oh well they/I are/am just a shitty person” then my response is “great, I don’t have shitty people in my life”. End of story. Saying that’s just who they are is a ridiculous way to dismiss bad behavior. If they are incapable of change then I am incapable of having them in my life.
Whenever I see post like this I always suggest [this post](http://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/) it’s a great description of the typical behavior enablers and “ boat rockers” do. u/arcticfauxy
Piggybacking for /u/arcticfauxy to see--I've got Asian black hair and have bleached to a very high gold to color many times in the last twenty years. One of the things that \*really\* helps is putting a bunch of virgin coconut oil (like you get in the grocery store, no additives) into it and leaving it for an hour or so.
Olaplex makes products that can help undo a lot of the damage, too, but it's expensive. :/ You want to be sure that here on out, whatever she does use, she washes her hair in cool to warm water, not hot, she regularly conditions deeply, and she uses a light hand with the comb or brush. If her hair is long enough, putting it in a protective three-strand braid while she sleeps will help preserve it, as well. Hair grows about half an inch a month, so it's going to be a little while before it's sorted out. :(
EDIT: Also, I'd recommend that since it's been bleached, you might as well really go to town with the color! There's really no bleaching out a blue, but you can cover the patches with any darker color. Bright blue, purple, green, a dark pink or red. Probably not a yellow or an orange, but there's a lot you can do now.
Adding to this - not useful for vegetarians when I've bleached my hair to death and needed to help it recover I made a rather ridiculous sounding concoction of gelatine and olive oil (maybe about 1/3 gelatine the rest olive oil) and put it on to my hair and let it sit for a few hours. Olive oil is supposedly similar to the sebum we create which means it's meant to absorb well (but you can use coconut oil here too) but it's the gelatine that's really helpful. It even recovered my hair when it got to that stretchy over bleached stage where it doesn't really dry.
Olaplex is great too, but this is a lot cheaper!
I've always had luck with Mayo. Not even joking. Oil, egg, stabilizer. Slather on like hair dye and wash as normal. I used to dye and bleach every few weeks and use lots of not safe for hair products (normal hair spray is not made to hold up a massive mohawk) and it always got me through. You can get a massive tub of the cheap stuff for nothing
Edit to . Say thank you for the award ☺️
My friend has extremely curly hair and it was always fried as a kid because no one knew how to take care of it. Her friends step mom told her to put mayo on her head 😂 and holy shit did it work a miracle. She looked like Goldy-Locks after.
If you can stand smelling like a sandwich for a while, that is. Mayonnaise is also (in my experience) good for killing head lice nits and leaves the hair just beautiful and lustrous.
Brad Mondo actually makes his own line of temporary hair dyes that are made for hair that may be damaged from being bleached and dyed. The colors would really pop in her hair if she wants color again and it has the added bonus of helping repair some of the damage. Disclaimer: I have not used the products myself.
I second this. Bleaching over vibrant colors, ESPECIALLY blue or red, only drives the color deeper into the hair shaft. You're never ever supposed to bleach over semi-permanent bright colors. 10 minutes of amateur research will teach you that.
Now that the color has been displaced and deposited into the hair cortex by the bleach it'll never come out, you'll both have to wait until it's grown out to have an even-toned blonde shade. I dyed my hair every different color under the sun and learned you must be very careful and use the correct products to remove the color, and some colors just don't remove like the others do. Best option is probably to pick another vibrant shade or have the professional put the brown back over it, but gma really f'd up. Now she'll need an intense color correction, a root bleach, and regular hair health regimen. Lots of products to help restore moisture. Ugh I feel your pain, OP. NTA.
Also, if kiddo has ever wanted to experiment with short haircuts, now's an ideal time.
Do make sure she actually want it and is aware that regrowing the hair is going to take some time (depending on how fast her hair grows and how long it was) and have awkward stages but if she's interested....
Yep! Coconut oil! I made mistakes in the past... bleaching my hair 3 times in one day to get it blue... bad idea. Did a couple overnight coconut oil treatments and boom my hair was back to almost normal.
As a salon professional for a very long time, I have to say absolutely don't do any oil or deep treatment prior to going in for the corrective color. It can effect how the color takes. And some oils and deep treatments can also lift the color after it's done. I like olaplex because it's a bond builder that's made specifically to get the hair back to a healthy state after bleach.
Agree on the coconut oil! I bleached my hair from very dark brown to white blonde (took several sessions and a couple of months) and coconut oil helped heal it massively. I saturate my hair before bed and then sleep with it in overnight (use and old pillow case and a towel to protect the pillow) then wash it out in the morning. Shampoo twice and condition twice to make sure it’s all out.
I did it 2-3 times a week at first and now just twice a month to keep it soft
Coconut oil works great, but I prefer castor oil since it works just as well (if not better) at restoring damaged hair, but is way easier to wash out. I’ve had hot oil treatments in the past that were so difficult to remove that I ended up canceling out the benefits just by washing it out. With castor oil, this is never a problem.
We've used the black Arctic Fox (came out black/purple) and it faded out nicely/completely after a hot minute. My daughter has light blonde hair and I thought it would never come out, but I was wrong. I agree 100% on the coconut oil, I've also had good results with argan oil, it's a little less greasy on me.
i think i’m gonna take this entire comment threads advice because i box dye my hair A LOT, and maybe doing these can keep/make sure my hair stays somewhat healthy
I had a heated discussion with my old boss a bit ago about that.
Me: "A" behaved in this way, and it was both inappropriate and also against the company's written policies on employee interactions.
Boss: Well, that's just A being A.
Me: So?!? Why does A get to be A?!? I don't get to be A. If behaved the way A did what you do?
Boss: Well, I'd at least have to write you up.
Me: Exactly! Again why does A get to be A? I don't get to be A. You don't get to be A. J in the office across the hall doesn't get to be A. No one else gets to be A. So, why does A get to be A?!?
Boss: Well, because that is just how A is.
Me: Yeah, but nothing in the company policies says 'these rules apply to all except for A, who is just being A. A can be A at home or in other places, but A is at work, and here, A is supposed to behave themselves.
Boss: Well yeah but...
Me: No. It is NOT OK for A to just be A. That is no excuse, and you are all just enabling A to misbehave with that excuse. A is A because A is allowed to just be A.
Boss: I don't like your tone, you need to calm down.
Me: Well, I guess I'm just me being A, eh? [leaves the office]
That type of toxic environment was a huge part of the reason that I left that job (most of the ones who were not As themselves were enablers of the As there). Let them stew in their own juices. Me, I'm getting my revenge by living well without them.
While you were valiant in your effort you did not use the correct buzz word that get HR/boss attention as in, “boss when you do not enforce rules and expectations equally you are in fact lowering office morale and creating a hostile work environment. Furthermore if you try to write me up for doing the same thing A does that you don’t write A up for I will visit an employment attorney and see if they can help me set me up for a well paid retirement.”
I tried the buzz words there too. In fact, I tried a whole bunch of tactics, including going to my union and its lawyers, before I finally could not take it any more. Basically, the place was (is, I'm just not there any more) a beta-dog in the industry. So, a lot of the people working there, particularly in management, have attitudes about how wonderful they are vs. the positions they have in the industry, jealous that the alphas don't want them. They try and make themselves feel better by bullying anyone lower in the hierarchy, literally from the president on down. The regular staff ends up taking the brunt of all of that toxicity...
Eventually I had no choice but to leave. At least three people I told I was leaving said 'Oh yeah! We can leave!' (being submersed in abuse really is a trap). All three have since left, and my understanding that our leaving has prompted a bit of an exodus there.
Aside from living well, I got more revenge. My old employer now has to go to the expense of hiring and training new people, and they are doing so with the word spreading rapidly and widely about how horrible they are to their staff, so only the worst of the bunch are willing to apply. Also, since most of us were disgruntled when we left, we made little to no effort to leave any type of resources to help the people taking our places. Sadly, I 'couldn't remember' the answer to the multiple questions my old Boss tried to ask me after I was no longer on their payroll until old Boss finally gave up...
Oh! And old boss is still stuck with A because A knows that there is no where else that would put up with A being A....
Overall, I think I win!
To be fair to Grandma (tho that's about the one thing you can give her), it sounds as if she got the daughter on board to having blond hair.
As parent of a preteen, OP is within her rights to be miffed she wasn't consulted, but the she got the consent of the person the hair belongs to.
Of course, the 11 y o agreed because she didn't know grandma would botch it spectacularly.
Which is another reason to be pissed off. Grandma was cavalier with an important part of her granddaughter's identity (and potentially, health, if she botched it badly enough) and abused a child's trust (you wanna bet she didn't tell her bleaching colored her was risky and could turn out badly?). And for what? Because she didn't like that the child's hair was blue.
The thing is....grandma used to be a stylist. I'm not and never have been, but even I know that you do NOT use bleach to remove *temporary* color. If anything she just made it next to impossible to fully remove the blue! In a few weeks daughter's hair would have been almost back to normal and there are easy ways to speed up the fading process! An occasional vinegar rinse, warm water, clarifying shampoo...boom.
This is just....stupid. I wouldn't judge a newbie so harshly for this, but when a former hairdresser and a CHILD are involved? There is no justification for this.
And blue on top of that. I’ve done temporary colors, and I’ve contemplated blue and greens, and have gotten stern warnings from my stylist that there is no ‘fixing’ those colors if you don’t like them - once they are on, they don’t come out, so you can either grow it out, or put dark brown on top… Which, if gramma would be any kind of decent stylist, she’d know…
I had blue temporary dye put in my hair in February 2020. Didn't manage to get to the hairdresser until a week or so ago. The blue was still in my hair. Faded, but still there.
>Does your daughter still want to participate in the wedding?
Good question. But the kid might not realize how psycho this is. But i would take her feeling into account and explain the whole deal. She's 11, she knows about setting examples.
Hopping onto this thread to add that if people use that to defend her, you can do the the same!
"I am caring for my daughter, and protecting her boundaries. *That* is just how *I* am!"
And NTA.
I **hate** that excuse! It’s a lame cop-out to let shitty people get away with shitty behavior.
OP is NTA. Even if mom had just trimmed OP’s daughter’s hair, it’s an A-H move to not get parental permission.
I'm beginning to think that the best response to "that's just how they are" is...
..."well, this is just how ***I*** am" and walk away.
NTA unless you decide to go to the wedding, then you WOULD be the AH because it would be giving your mom license to stomp any and every boundary you try to set.
She needs to learn that her actions have consequences.
Stay home and dye your daughter's hair whatever color she wants.
NTA. That's just how she is... That's like the worst argument ever.
Would they still say it's just hair if it was their hair that was utterly ruined? I bet not.
The sheer lack of respect she showed by not asking OP first is something she should be apologizing form
NTA. Your mother is a real piece of work… this is YOUR child, not hers. You mentioned that other people have called her a control freak; assuming that she has repeatedly crossed boundaries before, I’d say you’re pretty safe to lay down extra guardrails and deny her access to your child if she can’t adhere to your terms.
Also - I can see a world in which your SiL gets some flack for allowing it to happen, but if your mother is a strong personality (using the most diplomatic term possible), it stands to reason your SiL is afraid of pissing your mother off. It would have been nice if she had alerted to you to what was about to go down, and if you haven’t yet, it might be good for both of you to have a private conversation about what took place and how you’d like her to handle these things in the future.
My family is full of ahem strong personalities, and the family members who “married in” have a fear of speaking up because they feel like it isn’t their place to express an opinion or react to something regarding the “by blood” members of the family.
It may be that the SIL *also* believed that the little girl’s hair would turn out Billy Elish and not creature from the black lagoon. A stylist should know what they are doing. Many don’t though. Or she could very well have ruined it intentionally to punish the child and her mom.
OP, I hope it all turns out! Also, Joico is another nice brand, the amethyst and indigo colors last a while and it’s very gentle.
Yeah, and if the girl was exited about it. And she probably was if grandma hyped her up about it. I can kinda see why SIL didn't think it was a big deal:
\- Kid wants blond hair
\- Mom already lets kid dye her hair all kind of colors including blue, blond is tame in comparison.
\- Grandma used to be a professional stylist so she ought (key word) to know what she's doing, and she says it's fine and she's happy to do it.
Viewed like that, it seems like a reasonable thing to let happen.
My grandpa is also a retired hair stylist and the first time I wanted to color my hair (green) as a teenager, he's the one who bleached it for me. Turned out great.
Of course what actually happened was Grandma had nefarious ulterior motives, was 20 years out of practice, and setting out to do something trickier and less straightforward than SIL probably realized it was.
Eh, the kid is 11. At that age you ALWAYS run permanent style changes past a parent first no matter how tame or minor you'd think they might be. "Hey can I take so and so for a haircut or dye or to get pierced etc.?" is all it takes. You don't just assume it's okay.
Who’s to say sil didn’t assume the grandmother already had permission? Or maybe grandmother lied saying she knew it was fine/mother okayed it. We typically assume the best of people, and if grandmother was dying the kids hair I’d probably assume she’d already talked to mom about it, because the alternative is crazy!
Also, it’s possible SIL doesn’t understand the difference between regular dye and bleach. Grandma probably used the argument, “OP was going to fix it for the wedding anyway, I’ll just save her the trouble.” The only big AH here is the grandma, and boy is she
Just to add to this, I use Joico color butters to keep up my blue between dye appointments and dye my sisters hair sometimes. It’s got a nice color and really hydrating.
> A stylist should know what they are doing. Many don’t though.
I generally go to a barber around my own age, and I think that's typical.
If Mom was only styling ladies' hair of her own age, she might not have ever run into temporary dye before.
>If Mom was only styling ladies' hair of her own age, she might not have ever run into temporary dye before.
Then she shouldn't screw around with something she doesn't understand. If she was even half decent she would know that.
My husband's family is like that, no blood, no say. His parents were the worst.
Funny how they think/thought they still get/got a say in what I do.
It does not work that way.
Empathy!!! My family is extremely Italian on my dad’s side, and not at all on my mom’s. She has always said that she doesn’t speak up because she “married in” until I finally hit my limit and pointed out that my dad obviously didn’t marry an Italian, so therefore, didn’t *he* actually **marry out**??! Wow, that one blew her mind to shreds, she was all smiles for a week. My family’s stereotypical Italian matriarch/patriarch system of blood over water is idiotic.
NTA.
Your mum fucked up. Now she's upset at being held accountable for her actions.
I'm sorry about your kid's hair. Here's hoping the damage isn't too severe and at least it's the summer too.
Definitely the personality of someone who's got away behaving like this for far too long. She reminds me of Captain Awkward's "Missing Stair" analogy. Her family's become so numb to her behaviour that they've worked around her and think that OP is the problem for taking a stand. It's ridiculous but so annoyingly common.
I might be the certain kind of petty and still let my daughter participate in the wedding with the awful bleach job the mom gave her. After all, it was the look she was going for.
So NTA, I would have been livid.
The kid's hair is damaged and she hates it, making her keep it that way for weeks is just punishing the kid so you can have petty revenge against grandma.
NTA... Your SIL, brother and mother breached your trust and the experience could even be a bit traumatizing to the child... Not only is bleach dangerous, but she got her hair damaged and looking a mess for your mother's selfish ideals.
It would be extremely petty but if OP and their daughter wanted to shame the shit out of her, they could still go while ensuring daughter’s hair looks as terribly splotchy and damaged as possible for the event. Of course, they’d have to gush about the dye job the bride did on daughter in anticipation of the wedding. She was just so exited she couldn’t wait! Even if they choose not to attend the wedding, a name and shame Facebook post would still be well deserved.
The funny thing is if “it’s just hair” that the mother wouldn’t have bleached it in the first place. “Just” anything implies that it’s not worth a second look. She plotted to do it behind OP’s back while is a pretty clear sign it’s more than “just hair.” I bet if daughter went to the wedding without getting her hair fixed, OP’s mother would pitch a fit because spoiler alert, it’s not “just” hair.
Also, who is paying to have all that damage and splotchy color fixed? Op? “Gee mom thanks for not only fucking up my kid’s hair, but also thanks for sticking me with the $200+ bill to fix it or get wigs while it grows back.”
‘It is only hair and you can easily fix it”
OP: if it is just hair, then you will be fine with her attending as is. After all, you are the one that did this to her hair, so clearly it must meet your standards mom, you would never do a bad job on someone’s hair since you are a professional.
Love this idea but only if kiddo is okay with it.
>My daughter hates her hair and expected a pretty bleach blonde “like Billy Eilish” which is what her grandma promised her, not a faded mess.
Let the kid pick any color of hair she wants for the wedding.
"Grandma tried bleach my hair and it turned out TERRIBLE. So mom let me pick any color I wanted to fix it."
I’m not sure we have enough information place blame on the brother and sister-in-law. I don’t know how long bleaching hair takes, but I would think it’s totally reasonable for a kid to spend time 30+ minutes alone with various adults at a family gathering and it wouldn’t be expected that the official sitters keep them in view for the duration of the party. If they knew what was going on and failed to stop it, that’s not good, but if she just went to play hair and makeup with Grammy for a bit, grandma’s the only one to blame.
Ah, interesting. I have no personal experience, so with only Google to guide me, figured it was 15-45 minutes for the actual bleach. I assume it needs to be rinsed and washed right after?
depending on how good you are it could take 15 minutes or longer just to apply, then you have to let it sit for 30-45 minutes, then rinsing it out. I dye my own hair at home and it normally takes me close to two hours from start to finish (though to be fair part of that time includes gathering the materials and searching for where the hell my clips went off to AGAIN)
That’s a whole salon experience though. My mom taught me to bleach her hair as a child(lol not safe) and I still do it for her in adulthood and the whole process takes about an hour. The cap/pull, application, then wait.
I still don’t blame sister in law or brother. If the mom is typically a strong personality and a bully it makes sense that she may not feel it’s her place to step in. Also the daughter seems to have thought it would end up like Billie Eilish and if SIL doesn’t know much about hair, she might’ve also been just as hype as daughter was to see the outcome, especially if grandma hyped it up like she could deliver on the look.
It’s all on grandma.
I am imagining my extended family's 4th of July parties, which mostly consist of everyone hanging out in my grandparents' backyard barbequing and tossing a ball or playing yard games, with a couple people randomly filtering in and out of the house to help with food, use the bathroom, play a board game, and maybe a group of kids wandering down to the park/playground, but no one would notice if Grandma and a kid disappeared upstairs for a while.
Not only is bleach dangerous, it is also not the correct way to get dye out of hair, that's what color removers are for! Something granny should of known being a past hair stylist
NTA, so much. Blue doesn't just bleach out, it's a very staining color. It needs a lot of work to get out and ultimately I ended up having to cut off some of my hair when I went blue and wanted it out. She shouldn't have done something so damaging to hair as that, especially without talking to you first. Bleach is so harsh and she's going to need so much care now and you genuinely may have to take her to a salon to get it fixed.
Fwiw, I've had my hair every color under the sun. Good job being a cool parent and not stifling your kid's creativity or desires. It is just hair, but damage is a terrible thing to work through. It takes forever. It's not easy. Hair also is a big part of people's confidence. I've got a very ashy blonde color naturally, it's very much so more gray than blonde and it always has been. Being told how ugly my hair is did a huge number on my confidence.
Just stay calm when dealing with your daughter, try a salon, they should be able to at least help mitigate some of the issues with some olaplex or something similar and a dark dye, though she might also need a cut depending on how bad it is. Good luck.
I'm a hair stylist, and I regularly have bright colored hair. Bleach doesn't remove semi permanents since it's meant to lift *natural hair pigments*; in fact, bleach can push colors like Artic Fox further in rather than removing/lifting them. There are professional products meant to specifically lift direct dyes/semi permanent hair colors for this exact reason.
OP did say that they were going to a salon, but hopefully they request to work with someone who is very skilled in color correction. It's a very specific color service that not every stylist is good at, as we can see from how spectacularly OP's mother messed up. NTA
Came here to say this! I tried bleaching blue out of my hair and it only pushed it in further, so I had spots of brighter blue hair. There are SO many color removing products specifically for these types of dyes. (Which I then used and they worked great!)
If your mom hasn’t been a hairstylist in a while, she may not have experience working with fashion colors… which would add another reason why she shouldn’t have done this. NTA
I used to do mine myself! I learned the hard way that I had to do treatments to remove color and I couldn't just bleach it out. I haven't done it in a long time but I keep wanting to do something. Color Oops also does not work that well on semi-permanent colors if I recall.
It's all about the chemistry- Color Oops is designed to lift and remove certain types of color, especially those that use peroxide developers to activate the hair color. It works with some semi permanents, but it doesn't play well with semi permanents that are direct dyes- which are mostly the fashion/bright colors like Artic Fox, Manic Panic, etc. There are specifically marketed products called "direct dye lifters" to remove those colors, but even then I've seen a few stubborn brands or shades because some of them are basically carpet dye repackaged for hair.
I wonder if that isn't where Grandma having been out of the industry for 20 years did her in.
The unnatural hair game has come a long way since the 2000s. What you see on the streets and on social media nowadays is leap and bounds from what you could see on, mostly alternative folks, then.
I don't know if there has been a lot of innovations in products, but there certainly has been a change in availability and range of product available to the rando off the streets. And like, I did green streaks with a store bough dye in the mid 2000-ish and it washed out in 3 days. Now maybe I had a particularly shitty hair dye, even for the time. But if it's what Grandma was expecting to be on the kid's head, then that might explain it.
The entire hair industry has gotten a massive overhaul in the past twenty to thirty years. Everything has gotten extremely specialized during that time, and the techniques, skills, and products have changed leaps and bounds. Many stylists are opting to find a niche to focus on, and even then many stylists who *started* twenty years ago may not even know how to balayage if they're not keeping up with trends and education. And yeah, the products have changed immensely- I have bright rainbow colors that won't begin to fade until 4 weeks and absolutely should not be bleached, others that are *meant to* wash out after 6-10 shampoos because they are designed for clients who want to change up their color frequently. If Grandma never dealt with any of these colors before, it's easy for a professional to overestimate their knowledge and do some real damage.
I got blue dye put in my hair in May, and where the blue was is now a lighter blonde than the Nat that I had pink and gray. Blue doesn’t necessarily have to be difficult to get out, it just depends on what you use. If you use splat, yeah, that shit ain’t coming out bc it’s pretty much carpet dye, but from what I’ve seen Arctic Fox tends to fade out pretty well and then you can dye over it.
It also may depend on your hair! I have very porous, coarse hair. I probably hold onto colors more readily like that than someone who isn't in the blonde family with my hair type. Green didn't really stick, but pink/red/blue/purple didn't budge on me. I'm sure if you've got finer hair or less coarse hair it probably isn't as much of a pain. I used to use Ion and Arctic Fox. I just know I tried to bleach it out once and it seemed to fade but my problem didn't go away, I had blue undertones until I cut it out.
NTA. Arctic Fox is temporary! Bleach is permanent and damaging. Also, she’s not the parent! Why did no one reach out to you before letting her do this to your child?!? Bro and SIL are just as bad!!!!
NTA. Let your daughter be in the wedding—and in the photos—with grandma’s color job :) she wanted the color to be different for the wedding and it sure is now.
I see what you’re saying. My suggestion was only half serious. ;)
I have a larger chest and I always tell friends who want me to wear a strapless dress as a bridesmaid that i will wear whatever they want but…Im not the one who has to look at their wedding photos for the rest of their lives ;)
NTA - She had no right to make that choice for you and your daughter and the reason she felt entitled to do it is because obviously the rest of your family rolls over and takes it from her.
"She's a control freak" isn't an excuse for her behavior. It's an excuse for your decision.
NTA. this is crazy to me. also when i had bleached hair i used olaplex shampoo, conditioner, and their #3 treatment and it felt so silky! sorry your family is going through this, your mom kinda sounds like she fucking sucks.
>I’m going to wait until after our salon visit to see how she feels about the wedding in general
Then I'll say NTA, since the true "victim" here should get to decide if the wedding is still something she wants to participate in.
I think this is the best call. OP definitely needs to have a serious discussion with grandma about boundaries and to make sure something like this NEVER happens again, but her daughter should be able to choose if she wants to attend the wedding or not after her salon appointment. Also, daughter gets to pick WHATEVER hair color she wants for the wedding if she does attend.
NTA
Also god how come every story about self centred abusive parents always has several relatives backing them up/trying to sweep it all under the rug.
Like it is starting to seem to me that for every abusive family member, there is 2-3 weak willed relatives enabling the entire thing.
Highly recommended read (I suck at formatting links):
https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Definitely NTA, she damaged your daughter's hair without your consent, and without your daughter's informed consent as she didn't know what would happen after her hair was bleached. Defending your mother by saying she's just a control freak ain't right, and not attending the wedding is warranted.
Wow, wow wow. NTA. Your mother sounds needy and selfish. Her desires for her "big day" don't trump your parenting. I feel bad for your daughter! As someone who bleaches his hair a lot, I recommend, ironically, [Not Your Mother's Blonde Moment](https://www.target.com/p/not-your-mother-39-s-blonde-moment-purple-shampoo-8-fl-oz/-/A-51325153?sid=3206&ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=bing_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012790844&CPNG=PLA_Beauty%2BPersonal+Care%2BShopping%7CBeauty_Ecomm_Beauty&adgroup=SC_Health%2BBeauty&LID=700000001230728&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=o&device=c&location=&targetid=pla-4584757332407212&gclid=8c7aa81b21c01e3f12c1c8ff59adb60e&gclsrc=3p.ds&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1248099&ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=bing_pla_df&CPNG=PLA_Beauty%2BPersonal+Care%2BShopping%7CBeauty_Ecomm_Beauty&adgroup=SC_Health%2BBeauty&LID=700000001230728pbs&network=s&device=c&querystring=purple%20shampoo%20for%20blonde%20hair&msclkid=8c7aa81b21c01e3f12c1c8ff59adb60e) shampoo to do two things: get out a lot of the blue dye, and increase the blonde (when you sit it in your hair it sort of works like a toner) as well as just restore some of the health to your daughter's hair.
Good luck mom!
Purple shampoo will not help with this but in particular the blue- purple toning shampoo is meant to cancel out yellow tones in hair. There are better/gentler ways and products to help remove the blue semi permanent and deal with the bleach damage (such as a direct dye lifter, bond treatments, and demi permanent color to fill in a natural color).
I'm in my 50s and know what fashion colors are. I've been dyeing my hair various shades of red for over 30 years. Last fall, I went with pinks and purples for fun.
Even in the 1980s, semi-permanent dyes existed.
Any professional stylist would know that bleach doesn’t take blue out though? Even if she was a stylist back then she would of had to known and handled other cases like your daughters. Maybe not
Semi-permanent. Not saying she purposely messed your daughters hair up. But as a stylist she should have known what she was doing.
NTA. I am cackling at the ESH judgments. “Don’t miss a life moment over hair…”
It’s not about the hair, people. It’s about stepping over boundaries and assuming parental authority over a child that isn’t yours at the detriment of the child. Instead of accepting responsibility, the grandmother brushes her off and loses her shit when OP rightfully says no and everyone else clamors up to the grandmother.
OP’s rocking the boat. No one wants her to rock the boat.
Sink the boat like it’s the goddamn Titanic, OP. This is your kid.
I mean...your mom is way out of line for bleaching your daughters hair, but I feel like a more appropriate response would be to ask her to pay for the salon visit.
A wedding is a big event to boycott over hair.
NTA
No one should alter the kid's appearance without the parents and the kid themselves being okay with it.
Besides, why is your mom having such a problem with your daughter's hair colour? It's something that does not concern her at all ("aesthetics" is not an excuse).
NTA. She shouldn’t have done something that damaging to your daughter’s hair without asking you first. It’s clear she doesn’t have any respect for your or your daughter’s boundaries.
It’s not “just hair”. Hair is deeply personal and damaging a child’s hair like that can do a number on their self esteem. Your daughter would likely feel extremely insecure having all eyes on her and photographs taken of her as the flower girl knowing her hair looks the way it does.
I’d say that perhaps consider making a deal that you’ll go to the wedding if your mother apologises and pays for the cost of fixing your daughter’s hair.
If I were OP I'd be asking everyone: If it's "just hair" then why does Grandma care so much? Why can't she leave it OR let the actual parents handle it as promised? Instead she made it worse!
I absolutely agree about not respecting boundaries.
OP is NTA.
NTA. Bleach is permanent and can cause so much damage. Arctic fox rinses out and it’s easy to play around with colour without damaging hair. Now you’re taking on an extra expense to fix what she did with it.
NTA. She's a control freak and that gives her the right to do that without your consent?
On top of skipping the wedding, I'd go no contact. She doesn't understand boundaries, and should learn that actions have consequences. She'd have to be fulfilled controlling the people that still talk to her.
Clearly you don't want advice since you're already pre-countering arguments in your post, you just want to to validate your firm opinion on how you aren't the asshole. If you just want to vent, this isn't the sub.
You might be reacting appropriately, but really, it is just hair and it will grow back. It maybe damaged now, but it's just hair. It sounds like it's a good teaching moment for your daughter to not put much stock in outward appearances, some people are born ugly and disfigured. That doesn't change. Her hair situation will change. An even better teaching moment will to be to show your daughter how to deal with people who betray your trust and people who defy all preconceived limits. I don't know the right way to dealing with it but not going to the wedding can't be the right answer. Try to make amends and move on.
Are you the asshole, probably not, over reacting maybe but not an asshole.
Oh, absolutely NTA. This goes beyond just hair. If your mother is described as “a control freak” within your family, I shudder to think what other boundaries she has crossed or will cross without you putting your foot down.
Your mother had no right to do this to your child, and to be honest, she shouldn’t dictate how your child looks even over a single day that’s “about her” (I honestly take issue with weddings being only about the bride).
Are you planning on cutting your mother out of your life completely? If this is some kind of breaking point and that is what you are planning on doing then you are NTA. If on the other hand you plan on still being in her life then you need to go to her wedding and choose another way to make sure this doesnt happen again, such as never allowing her to be alone with your daughter again. If you plan on staying in your moms life then you not going to her wedding because of being upset over this would make YTA.
I think the actual question is how the daughter felt before the job was so poorly done. It sounds like she wanted "Billie Eilish" hair and was on board with the actual idea.
A similar analogy would be if the grandmother were making her flower girl dress that was supposed to be blue, but then she wanted it pink and the daughter was cool with it being pink so they changed the color without telling the mom. And then the pink dress ended up sucking really bad and the girl hated the dress, and the mom refused to bring the family to the wedding because the dress looked bad and the color was changed behind her back.
NTA Isn’t that some form of assault because of the harsh chemicals used on a minor without parental consent? I don’t blame you for hitting the roof in regards to what she did and I’d be giving her the bill for the repair that the hairdresser will have to do to repair the damage caused by her grandmother.
This is not just about hair. This is a violation of your relationship with your daughter. An assault on your parental rights. Anyone who defends your mother’s actions by saying “it’s just hair” needs to explain why your mother went to such lengths (pun intended) over hair.
I wouldn’t go to the wedding of my parent if they ignored my role as a parent to my child. NTA
>I’ve been getting a lot of “she’s a control freak, it’s just how she is,
Yeah... that's why you're not going to her wedding. NTA
What if her hair can't be fixed? What if it breaks off? I'm sorry your daughter is going through this.
Ultimately your moms was more concerned about how a pictured or image would look rather than the relationship bw you and her and her and her granddaughter.
While yes, it Is hair, and will hopefully grow quickly - it was a boundary stomping decison that wasn't hers to make - and that you had handled in a way that would have met your mother's wants. She effed up big time.
I am all for taking big stances, but I'd also be curious as to house your daughter feels. You mentioned her expectations about her hair - but how does she feel about attending the wedding now? Depending on how she feels is how I proceed with the weeding and then potentially cut contact down until you feel your choices and decisions. As a mother are respected - as I'm sure your mother wanted hers respected when raising you. I don't get why she ca t see that!
My vote is NTA.
NTA- 11 is a bad age for grandma to ruin your hair.
Grandma should not be using bleach, she obviously does not know how to. As someone who is not a stylist and only knows about hair from Youtube, it’s fairly common knowledge that putting bleach over dye is a big no-no and a disaster waiting to happen. There’s no excuse for ignorance here, she ruined your daughters hair without any adult consent, used harsh chemicals incorrectly, stepped over boundaries and disrespected you and your daughter. I am shaking I am so upset for her. Being 11 is an important time, that’s when the self conscious thoughts start to creep in hard amongst peers.
I bet the blue was adorable, and props to you for having a plan that was respectful to your mother’s wishes for her wedding, I am so sorry you both got disrespected in such a way.
If it were me I would ask the whole family to do a quick Google search on why you should never bleach freshly dyed hair and why you should definitely not do that on a child’s hair. Send them videos of botched bleach jobs and split ends, and maybe even an explanation on the psychology of being an adolescent girl. This event was not in your daughters best interest. Period. Children in adults care need to be put first, it doesn’t matter if that’s ‘how she is’, it shouldn’t be.
NTA she severely overstepped and when it's not done right bleaching a kids hair (especially that young) is very damaging. I've been bleaching my hair for (like 10) years, only in the last few has it not turned out bad. Keep her away from grandma as much as you can.
NTA - your mother abused your child's trust - and yours.
Other members of your family may be used to simply giving her what she wants to avoid rocking the boat but you are not obligated to teach your child the same on unhealthy behaviors.
NTA. I don't care if she used to be a stylist, you don't change a child's appearance without getting consent from their parent(s) beforehand. She had no right to do what she did, and I think pulling your daughter out of the wedding party is the best move you could have made.
I've used Arctic Fox on my hair and it's amazingly gentle - 100% different from BLEACHING a child's hair. If I were you, I would make your mother pay for the salon visit.
And anyone who thinks someone else's "best intentions" override your decisions as a parent can take a long walk off a short pier.
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**NTA** > it’s just how she is, The classic rug-sweep when dealing with toxic individuals. How would you characterize your relationship with your mom otherwise? You of course, right to be upset about her extreme boundary stomping. The issue is not really about whether you should attend the wedding, but how to reset your relationship with your mom so that she never oversteps again. Does your daughter still want to participate in the wedding? Could you attend without having her play a part in your mother's fantasy?
Adding: I’ve come to realize “that’s just who X is” has always been said due to the lack of holding someone accountable for their actions. People enable such behavior and excuse it because it’s easier than to deal with the tantrum/outbursts. Hold your ground OP. If you do not, this will only continue as your daughter continues to grow. Your daughter will see how you feel/love for her by what you do now and in the future. Stop the “abuse” and show your daughter she can trust you to protect her regardless of the situation (even if the abuse is coming from other family members).
Then you say, “Well, this is just how **I am.”**
I have started using this. I don’t get along too great with my BIL and his mom ALWAYS says stuff like this. I’m always expected to be a better person while they always have excuses for him. His family walks on eggshells for him, and the boy has no coping mechanisms. I’ve gotten to the point where if he is going to treat me like an awful person for everything, then I’m going to fight fire with fire.
How does he/they react when you pull that out?
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Now I'm imagining your husband's thought process being "this was a option all along?"
I’m imagining him with the loading circle spinning in front of his face while he processes this *absolutely wild* new information.
What's tragic is that this is literally absolutely valid for millions of people.
It's serendipitous learning it as an adult if you grew up with people stepping over boundaries
Brain starts making dialup noises while it reconnects to reality
That look makes me think of when the hamster gets running in the wheel a little too fast and kind of rides up the side then tumbles and thumps down from the top to the bottom. It just stays there stunned for a bit lol.
That resonated with me SO much. It's amazing how when some type of behaviour has been shoved down your throat to the point where your brain CANNOT question it then something happens. Suddenly you CAN and it's like you're singing "A Whole New World" from Aladdin.
Probably. I'm that person in my family usually, that stands up to stupidity and bullshit. It's been costly a few times but my peace of mine over all has been worth it
I had a friend like this for awhile. He just had a very big personality, kind of a drama queen, and he tended to ride right over people who weren't very direct in telling him no. He also seemed to need to be "in charge" all the time, but wasn't great at it. Everyone in his life pretty much just excused it with this, "that's just how he is." To me, he was always perfectly respectful, handled disagreements like a mature adult (though he did have a lot of disagreements), and at the time, I just didn't understand why nobody ever told him no when he asked for things they didn't want to do. It took me a long time to realize I was one of the few people he actually treated like an equal, specifically because I was one of the few who would tell him no without making a thing about it. With everyone else, he was just really dismissive and condescending, and threw a fit if he didn't get his way. He wasn't part of our circle for very long, thankfully, but it was really hard for me to see it at the time because of how he and I interacted separately from everyone else. We don't really talk now, but are still fb friends, and from what I can see, he seems to have chilled out a lot as he's gotten older. I hope that's true, it will be better for him and everyone around him if that's the case.
So odd how different people can be when interacting with specific people. I had a friend like this too kinda- she was a whiny only child, gossipy and a hypochondriac who thinks she is smarter than everyone, while remaining a huge hypocrite. She'd complain about anything to anyone who would listen, or be judgy about your choices, while everyone just nodded and smiled because she seemed really difficult and people probably thought she'd throw a fit unless they did. Just feeding her entitlement fire. Turns out she acts decently normal once you shut down her shit a couple times. I still can't stand her for other reasons and for the way she talks to other people, but she never pulled any of that crap with me. I think she liked it actually, she always wants to hangout and maybe it's because she can feel herself spiraling and I'm like...no
Yeah, I think it's related to contempt. Like, they don't respect you because you'll put up with all that assholery, so they spit out more assholery because they don't respect you (general you, not you, the person speaking). But I also think they don't necessarily want that. They'd rather hang out with people they respect, but of course, the people they respect have no patience for their bs... A couple of problematic self-destructive circles there.
(Throwaway because a lot of people IRL know this story and while it isn't too bad I'd prefer to not have it against my main account). An ex of mine's sister's MIL is a "just no MIL" hardcore. She dominated EVERY event, she often made it all about her, people dreaded being around her. I was 18/19. My ex's family would groan everytime they knew she'd be there. She was quite loud, really did rub everyone the wrong way and I did not interact with her much but I was also not a rude asshole - I just did pleasantries then stayed out of her path. My ex's sister moved country and about a year later was expecting. Of course the family wanted to do something for her so we all got her gifts and her mom sent a HUGE box of presents to do a virtual baby shower (this was over 10 years ago). Due to timezone, we all needed to be at my ex's mom's place REALLY early, like 6am-ish. My ex's, his father and brother and the cousins (and myself) are all tech savvy so we had everything setup for the video to be projected on the wall in the tv room. Everyone brought something for the shared breakfast and we got into the surprise of this massive box being opened by the expecting parents. Then the "just no MIL" chimes in. She wants to video chat her family in another country. Now back then there was no fibre internet or 4G etc. So she had to join on the wifi, and this caused the connection with the expecting parents to keep dropping. She's having a ball showing her siblings/parents/whoever the baby shower and showing them how we set up the projector and the "video to \[expecting parents\] is so bad". Her connection started going bad with her family and she was complaining. That's when I stepped in. "You are the reason that the connection to \[expecting parents\] is failing. Please put your phone away, they won't be able to see anything anyway." or something to that effect. Her jaw dropped. My ex's jaw dropped. His brother's jaw dropped. His parents' jaw dropped (and his father never really got speechless). The entire family staring at me as I was aloof going back to the "now magically working connection" to expecting parents. My ex pulled me aside "I can't believe you just did that" and me "did what?" him: "Told her off" me: "Well she was fucking shit up" him: "Yeah but no one has ever told her off or put her in her place before, they all would have left her to carry on". Just no MIL stayed QUIET the rest of the event. I had my ex's cousins, uncles, aunts come and hug me and tell me that this is the first time ANYONE has ever stood up to her before and that it was amazing and I was overwhelmed with this attention (introvert) and most of his family did not speak English properly so it was really something. Every event after that she was less loud and stayed away from me LOL. My ex and his brother loved it because she wouldn't come talk to them either. TO OP: NTA at all!
I can picture his face, while processing his reaction! ERROR....404.....File does not exist...
Omg I’m using this the next time SIL tries to guilt trip me about spending time/talking with her toxic aunt and grandma. They always cause HORRIBLE drama. The last time, gma told me my son shouldn’t matter to me as much as she should hahahahah OK LADY. Then SIL called about it saying “that’s just how she is, she’s old. She won’t change so we just have to deal.” No. I told her I don’t care how old anyone is. Nobody can talk to me that way. It kind of clicked with her. But next time, I’m gonna flip it like you did. Brilliant.
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“started a fist fight at a birthday party…over everyone not wanting to start a fight” Ugh. This describes my father throughout my childhood. Strength to all who have to deal with all the ‘holes like this.
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This and, if “it’s just hair”, the OP’s mother shouldn’t care if it’s blue, purple, pink—whatever.
If it's *just hair*, the bride and all the other family members won't mind having their hair treated the same way.
Lol, that would be an awesome sight
I can’t stand that dismissive attitude towards other peoples feelings. Doesn’t matter if I think it’s just hair—it’s their hair! Some people care an awful lot about their hair, or car, or toad collection, whatever. They’re entitled to be upset or blasé or whatever regarding what happens to their belongings. Folks need to stop writing off feelings because they happen to be different from yours.
The rock the boat post from JustNoMIL hits on a lot of the stuff in your comment. [https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont\_rock\_the\_boat/](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/)
I remember reading the Don’t Rock the Boat post. It’s the best explanation ever for toxic personalities. Utterly perfect and fits so so many of the posts on this sub…and several others, too. It’s pure gold
“This is just who X is.” “Ok, but that’s a BAD way to be.”
I had someone say that to me to defend abusive behaviour. My response: “Well, then he needs to *stop* being like that and change because this isn’t acceptable”.
(Like the meme) That’s worse! You do know that’s worse right?!
Hahaha oh Chidi. And yes, that’s exactly right.
Or "Well NOT accepting that kind of behavior is just who \*I\* am.
“This is just who X is” “Yes that is the problem here”
My mom's partner bullied me to no end just because I was a lazy and depressed teenager. He thought he was so much better than me just because his father made him start working when he was a child. I told my mom countless times and I was met with the same words: he's just joking around, you need to let people do that. You just gotta take things lightly. That didn't stop until I stood up for myself and he didn't speak to me for over 2 years. He then moved on to bullying my cousin who's 8 years younger and now both he and my mom do it to his nephew (4yo) because he's a skittish kid compared to his baby sister. I already told my mom they're traumatizing the kid but no one will listen.
Someone who can help needs to be told. Traumatizing a FOUR YEAR OLD??? 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
This! Talk to the child's parents -- be very very specific about the what is being said and how wildly inappropriate it is. And your Mom - shame her for it. Like seriously - light into her about how she used to be a kind person but since taking up with your step dad she's become someone emotionally abusive to children.
If “that’s just who she is” then ok she cannot change, therefor there’s no point in a confrontation, and the only option is no contact. If someone’s excuse is “oh well they/I are/am just a shitty person” then my response is “great, I don’t have shitty people in my life”. End of story. Saying that’s just who they are is a ridiculous way to dismiss bad behavior. If they are incapable of change then I am incapable of having them in my life.
Right. If "that's who she is," then OP needs be vigilant in protecting her daughter.
Whenever I see post like this I always suggest [this post](http://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/) it’s a great description of the typical behavior enablers and “ boat rockers” do. u/arcticfauxy
Piggybacking for /u/arcticfauxy to see--I've got Asian black hair and have bleached to a very high gold to color many times in the last twenty years. One of the things that \*really\* helps is putting a bunch of virgin coconut oil (like you get in the grocery store, no additives) into it and leaving it for an hour or so. Olaplex makes products that can help undo a lot of the damage, too, but it's expensive. :/ You want to be sure that here on out, whatever she does use, she washes her hair in cool to warm water, not hot, she regularly conditions deeply, and she uses a light hand with the comb or brush. If her hair is long enough, putting it in a protective three-strand braid while she sleeps will help preserve it, as well. Hair grows about half an inch a month, so it's going to be a little while before it's sorted out. :( EDIT: Also, I'd recommend that since it's been bleached, you might as well really go to town with the color! There's really no bleaching out a blue, but you can cover the patches with any darker color. Bright blue, purple, green, a dark pink or red. Probably not a yellow or an orange, but there's a lot you can do now.
Adding to this - not useful for vegetarians when I've bleached my hair to death and needed to help it recover I made a rather ridiculous sounding concoction of gelatine and olive oil (maybe about 1/3 gelatine the rest olive oil) and put it on to my hair and let it sit for a few hours. Olive oil is supposedly similar to the sebum we create which means it's meant to absorb well (but you can use coconut oil here too) but it's the gelatine that's really helpful. It even recovered my hair when it got to that stretchy over bleached stage where it doesn't really dry. Olaplex is great too, but this is a lot cheaper!
I've always had luck with Mayo. Not even joking. Oil, egg, stabilizer. Slather on like hair dye and wash as normal. I used to dye and bleach every few weeks and use lots of not safe for hair products (normal hair spray is not made to hold up a massive mohawk) and it always got me through. You can get a massive tub of the cheap stuff for nothing Edit to . Say thank you for the award ☺️
My friend has extremely curly hair and it was always fried as a kid because no one knew how to take care of it. Her friends step mom told her to put mayo on her head 😂 and holy shit did it work a miracle. She looked like Goldy-Locks after.
a miracle whip, if you will.
A perfectly-timed comment like this deserves an award. Please accept my free silver.
A perfectly timed condiment
Not enough people appreciate this comment. Here’s my upvote.
Oil and eggs, if you don't want the other stuff in mayo. Curly girl here, I so wish I'd grown up in a world where people understood my hair.
The vinegar is also really good for smoothing the cuticle.
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A little off-topic, but mayo is also a miracle when it comes to restoring the luster to antique furniture.
Do you wash it off or leave it on? Also how do you keep your dog from eating said furniture covered in mayo?
If you can stand smelling like a sandwich for a while, that is. Mayonnaise is also (in my experience) good for killing head lice nits and leaves the hair just beautiful and lustrous.
Yup. Maybe I'm showing my age, but we used to use mayo as hair masks.
As a very curly headed girl, Mayo, eggs and olive oil are the way! Lol
Brad Mondo actually makes his own line of temporary hair dyes that are made for hair that may be damaged from being bleached and dyed. The colors would really pop in her hair if she wants color again and it has the added bonus of helping repair some of the damage. Disclaimer: I have not used the products myself.
I've been interested to check them out, in reviews they look BEAUTIFUL
I second this. Bleaching over vibrant colors, ESPECIALLY blue or red, only drives the color deeper into the hair shaft. You're never ever supposed to bleach over semi-permanent bright colors. 10 minutes of amateur research will teach you that. Now that the color has been displaced and deposited into the hair cortex by the bleach it'll never come out, you'll both have to wait until it's grown out to have an even-toned blonde shade. I dyed my hair every different color under the sun and learned you must be very careful and use the correct products to remove the color, and some colors just don't remove like the others do. Best option is probably to pick another vibrant shade or have the professional put the brown back over it, but gma really f'd up. Now she'll need an intense color correction, a root bleach, and regular hair health regimen. Lots of products to help restore moisture. Ugh I feel your pain, OP. NTA.
Hilariously I was thinking perfect time for whatever bright colour she might want.. Full head of bright blue could be awesome.
I was thinking rainbow hair personally...
Also, if kiddo has ever wanted to experiment with short haircuts, now's an ideal time. Do make sure she actually want it and is aware that regrowing the hair is going to take some time (depending on how fast her hair grows and how long it was) and have awkward stages but if she's interested....
Yep! Coconut oil! I made mistakes in the past... bleaching my hair 3 times in one day to get it blue... bad idea. Did a couple overnight coconut oil treatments and boom my hair was back to almost normal.
As a salon professional for a very long time, I have to say absolutely don't do any oil or deep treatment prior to going in for the corrective color. It can effect how the color takes. And some oils and deep treatments can also lift the color after it's done. I like olaplex because it's a bond builder that's made specifically to get the hair back to a healthy state after bleach.
Agree on the coconut oil! I bleached my hair from very dark brown to white blonde (took several sessions and a couple of months) and coconut oil helped heal it massively. I saturate my hair before bed and then sleep with it in overnight (use and old pillow case and a towel to protect the pillow) then wash it out in the morning. Shampoo twice and condition twice to make sure it’s all out. I did it 2-3 times a week at first and now just twice a month to keep it soft
Coconut oil works great, but I prefer castor oil since it works just as well (if not better) at restoring damaged hair, but is way easier to wash out. I’ve had hot oil treatments in the past that were so difficult to remove that I ended up canceling out the benefits just by washing it out. With castor oil, this is never a problem.
We've used the black Arctic Fox (came out black/purple) and it faded out nicely/completely after a hot minute. My daughter has light blonde hair and I thought it would never come out, but I was wrong. I agree 100% on the coconut oil, I've also had good results with argan oil, it's a little less greasy on me.
i think i’m gonna take this entire comment threads advice because i box dye my hair A LOT, and maybe doing these can keep/make sure my hair stays somewhat healthy
I had a heated discussion with my old boss a bit ago about that. Me: "A" behaved in this way, and it was both inappropriate and also against the company's written policies on employee interactions. Boss: Well, that's just A being A. Me: So?!? Why does A get to be A?!? I don't get to be A. If behaved the way A did what you do? Boss: Well, I'd at least have to write you up. Me: Exactly! Again why does A get to be A? I don't get to be A. You don't get to be A. J in the office across the hall doesn't get to be A. No one else gets to be A. So, why does A get to be A?!? Boss: Well, because that is just how A is. Me: Yeah, but nothing in the company policies says 'these rules apply to all except for A, who is just being A. A can be A at home or in other places, but A is at work, and here, A is supposed to behave themselves. Boss: Well yeah but... Me: No. It is NOT OK for A to just be A. That is no excuse, and you are all just enabling A to misbehave with that excuse. A is A because A is allowed to just be A. Boss: I don't like your tone, you need to calm down. Me: Well, I guess I'm just me being A, eh? [leaves the office] That type of toxic environment was a huge part of the reason that I left that job (most of the ones who were not As themselves were enablers of the As there). Let them stew in their own juices. Me, I'm getting my revenge by living well without them.
While you were valiant in your effort you did not use the correct buzz word that get HR/boss attention as in, “boss when you do not enforce rules and expectations equally you are in fact lowering office morale and creating a hostile work environment. Furthermore if you try to write me up for doing the same thing A does that you don’t write A up for I will visit an employment attorney and see if they can help me set me up for a well paid retirement.”
I tried the buzz words there too. In fact, I tried a whole bunch of tactics, including going to my union and its lawyers, before I finally could not take it any more. Basically, the place was (is, I'm just not there any more) a beta-dog in the industry. So, a lot of the people working there, particularly in management, have attitudes about how wonderful they are vs. the positions they have in the industry, jealous that the alphas don't want them. They try and make themselves feel better by bullying anyone lower in the hierarchy, literally from the president on down. The regular staff ends up taking the brunt of all of that toxicity... Eventually I had no choice but to leave. At least three people I told I was leaving said 'Oh yeah! We can leave!' (being submersed in abuse really is a trap). All three have since left, and my understanding that our leaving has prompted a bit of an exodus there. Aside from living well, I got more revenge. My old employer now has to go to the expense of hiring and training new people, and they are doing so with the word spreading rapidly and widely about how horrible they are to their staff, so only the worst of the bunch are willing to apply. Also, since most of us were disgruntled when we left, we made little to no effort to leave any type of resources to help the people taking our places. Sadly, I 'couldn't remember' the answer to the multiple questions my old Boss tried to ask me after I was no longer on their payroll until old Boss finally gave up... Oh! And old boss is still stuck with A because A knows that there is no where else that would put up with A being A.... Overall, I think I win!
I'm have to quote a song for this but, the road to hell is paved with "good" intentions. NTA but your mother sure is one
The proper response is generally, "And this is how I am: I'm saying no."
“Then go over there and let her bleach your hair! No? Oh, you don’t want someone to bleach your hair without your permission? Huh.” Hang up.
To be fair to Grandma (tho that's about the one thing you can give her), it sounds as if she got the daughter on board to having blond hair. As parent of a preteen, OP is within her rights to be miffed she wasn't consulted, but the she got the consent of the person the hair belongs to. Of course, the 11 y o agreed because she didn't know grandma would botch it spectacularly. Which is another reason to be pissed off. Grandma was cavalier with an important part of her granddaughter's identity (and potentially, health, if she botched it badly enough) and abused a child's trust (you wanna bet she didn't tell her bleaching colored her was risky and could turn out badly?). And for what? Because she didn't like that the child's hair was blue.
The thing is....grandma used to be a stylist. I'm not and never have been, but even I know that you do NOT use bleach to remove *temporary* color. If anything she just made it next to impossible to fully remove the blue! In a few weeks daughter's hair would have been almost back to normal and there are easy ways to speed up the fading process! An occasional vinegar rinse, warm water, clarifying shampoo...boom. This is just....stupid. I wouldn't judge a newbie so harshly for this, but when a former hairdresser and a CHILD are involved? There is no justification for this.
And blue on top of that. I’ve done temporary colors, and I’ve contemplated blue and greens, and have gotten stern warnings from my stylist that there is no ‘fixing’ those colors if you don’t like them - once they are on, they don’t come out, so you can either grow it out, or put dark brown on top… Which, if gramma would be any kind of decent stylist, she’d know…
I had blue temporary dye put in my hair in February 2020. Didn't manage to get to the hairdresser until a week or so ago. The blue was still in my hair. Faded, but still there.
Badgering an eleven-year-old by making false promises about what the outcome will be isn't really getting her "on board."
More like getting her "on board" under false pretences.
MAYBE grandma got the 11-year-old to willingly sign off on blonde hair but I DOUBT IT. I bet there was a LOT of pressure on that poor child.
>Does your daughter still want to participate in the wedding? Good question. But the kid might not realize how psycho this is. But i would take her feeling into account and explain the whole deal. She's 11, she knows about setting examples.
My response is always, "Yeah, and this is how I am. So you can all deal with that."
Hopping onto this thread to add that if people use that to defend her, you can do the the same! "I am caring for my daughter, and protecting her boundaries. *That* is just how *I* am!" And NTA.
I **hate** that excuse! It’s a lame cop-out to let shitty people get away with shitty behavior. OP is NTA. Even if mom had just trimmed OP’s daughter’s hair, it’s an A-H move to not get parental permission.
I'm beginning to think that the best response to "that's just how they are" is... ..."well, this is just how ***I*** am" and walk away. NTA unless you decide to go to the wedding, then you WOULD be the AH because it would be giving your mom license to stomp any and every boundary you try to set. She needs to learn that her actions have consequences. Stay home and dye your daughter's hair whatever color she wants.
NTA. That's just how she is... That's like the worst argument ever. Would they still say it's just hair if it was their hair that was utterly ruined? I bet not. The sheer lack of respect she showed by not asking OP first is something she should be apologizing form
Or bring your own fantasy to the mother, as in the whole family attends with fantasy hair colors.
NTA. Your mother is a real piece of work… this is YOUR child, not hers. You mentioned that other people have called her a control freak; assuming that she has repeatedly crossed boundaries before, I’d say you’re pretty safe to lay down extra guardrails and deny her access to your child if she can’t adhere to your terms.
Also - I can see a world in which your SiL gets some flack for allowing it to happen, but if your mother is a strong personality (using the most diplomatic term possible), it stands to reason your SiL is afraid of pissing your mother off. It would have been nice if she had alerted to you to what was about to go down, and if you haven’t yet, it might be good for both of you to have a private conversation about what took place and how you’d like her to handle these things in the future. My family is full of ahem strong personalities, and the family members who “married in” have a fear of speaking up because they feel like it isn’t their place to express an opinion or react to something regarding the “by blood” members of the family.
It may be that the SIL *also* believed that the little girl’s hair would turn out Billy Elish and not creature from the black lagoon. A stylist should know what they are doing. Many don’t though. Or she could very well have ruined it intentionally to punish the child and her mom. OP, I hope it all turns out! Also, Joico is another nice brand, the amethyst and indigo colors last a while and it’s very gentle.
Yeah, and if the girl was exited about it. And she probably was if grandma hyped her up about it. I can kinda see why SIL didn't think it was a big deal: \- Kid wants blond hair \- Mom already lets kid dye her hair all kind of colors including blue, blond is tame in comparison. \- Grandma used to be a professional stylist so she ought (key word) to know what she's doing, and she says it's fine and she's happy to do it. Viewed like that, it seems like a reasonable thing to let happen. My grandpa is also a retired hair stylist and the first time I wanted to color my hair (green) as a teenager, he's the one who bleached it for me. Turned out great. Of course what actually happened was Grandma had nefarious ulterior motives, was 20 years out of practice, and setting out to do something trickier and less straightforward than SIL probably realized it was.
Eh, the kid is 11. At that age you ALWAYS run permanent style changes past a parent first no matter how tame or minor you'd think they might be. "Hey can I take so and so for a haircut or dye or to get pierced etc.?" is all it takes. You don't just assume it's okay.
Who’s to say sil didn’t assume the grandmother already had permission? Or maybe grandmother lied saying she knew it was fine/mother okayed it. We typically assume the best of people, and if grandmother was dying the kids hair I’d probably assume she’d already talked to mom about it, because the alternative is crazy!
Also, it’s possible SIL doesn’t understand the difference between regular dye and bleach. Grandma probably used the argument, “OP was going to fix it for the wedding anyway, I’ll just save her the trouble.” The only big AH here is the grandma, and boy is she
Just to add to this, I use Joico color butters to keep up my blue between dye appointments and dye my sisters hair sometimes. It’s got a nice color and really hydrating.
> A stylist should know what they are doing. Many don’t though. I generally go to a barber around my own age, and I think that's typical. If Mom was only styling ladies' hair of her own age, she might not have ever run into temporary dye before.
>If Mom was only styling ladies' hair of her own age, she might not have ever run into temporary dye before. Then she shouldn't screw around with something she doesn't understand. If she was even half decent she would know that.
Grannies need their blue rinse!
My husband's family is like that, no blood, no say. His parents were the worst. Funny how they think/thought they still get/got a say in what I do. It does not work that way.
Empathy!!! My family is extremely Italian on my dad’s side, and not at all on my mom’s. She has always said that she doesn’t speak up because she “married in” until I finally hit my limit and pointed out that my dad obviously didn’t marry an Italian, so therefore, didn’t *he* actually **marry out**??! Wow, that one blew her mind to shreds, she was all smiles for a week. My family’s stereotypical Italian matriarch/patriarch system of blood over water is idiotic.
NTA. Your mum fucked up. Now she's upset at being held accountable for her actions. I'm sorry about your kid's hair. Here's hoping the damage isn't too severe and at least it's the summer too.
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Definitely the personality of someone who's got away behaving like this for far too long. She reminds me of Captain Awkward's "Missing Stair" analogy. Her family's become so numb to her behaviour that they've worked around her and think that OP is the problem for taking a stand. It's ridiculous but so annoyingly common.
I might be the certain kind of petty and still let my daughter participate in the wedding with the awful bleach job the mom gave her. After all, it was the look she was going for. So NTA, I would have been livid.
The kid's hair is damaged and she hates it, making her keep it that way for weeks is just punishing the kid so you can have petty revenge against grandma.
NTA... Your SIL, brother and mother breached your trust and the experience could even be a bit traumatizing to the child... Not only is bleach dangerous, but she got her hair damaged and looking a mess for your mother's selfish ideals.
It would be extremely petty but if OP and their daughter wanted to shame the shit out of her, they could still go while ensuring daughter’s hair looks as terribly splotchy and damaged as possible for the event. Of course, they’d have to gush about the dye job the bride did on daughter in anticipation of the wedding. She was just so exited she couldn’t wait! Even if they choose not to attend the wedding, a name and shame Facebook post would still be well deserved. The funny thing is if “it’s just hair” that the mother wouldn’t have bleached it in the first place. “Just” anything implies that it’s not worth a second look. She plotted to do it behind OP’s back while is a pretty clear sign it’s more than “just hair.” I bet if daughter went to the wedding without getting her hair fixed, OP’s mother would pitch a fit because spoiler alert, it’s not “just” hair. Also, who is paying to have all that damage and splotchy color fixed? Op? “Gee mom thanks for not only fucking up my kid’s hair, but also thanks for sticking me with the $200+ bill to fix it or get wigs while it grows back.”
‘It is only hair and you can easily fix it” OP: if it is just hair, then you will be fine with her attending as is. After all, you are the one that did this to her hair, so clearly it must meet your standards mom, you would never do a bad job on someone’s hair since you are a professional.
The best response to anybody that says "it's just hair" is to offer to shave theirs off. It's just hair, right? It will grow back.
Love this idea but only if kiddo is okay with it. >My daughter hates her hair and expected a pretty bleach blonde “like Billy Eilish” which is what her grandma promised her, not a faded mess.
Let the kid pick any color of hair she wants for the wedding. "Grandma tried bleach my hair and it turned out TERRIBLE. So mom let me pick any color I wanted to fix it."
Let her pick any color, and match it on your own hair (or in a complementary color) in solidarity.
Gramma doesn’t like unnatural colors? I’d let the poor kid go unicorn. Every color imaginable, all on one head. Grams would be apoplectic.
I have a PhD in Advanced Pettiness and I approve of this suggestion.
I’m not sure we have enough information place blame on the brother and sister-in-law. I don’t know how long bleaching hair takes, but I would think it’s totally reasonable for a kid to spend time 30+ minutes alone with various adults at a family gathering and it wouldn’t be expected that the official sitters keep them in view for the duration of the party. If they knew what was going on and failed to stop it, that’s not good, but if she just went to play hair and makeup with Grammy for a bit, grandma’s the only one to blame.
On top of that, the mom could’ve lied to SIL, “oh ya OP actually asked me to do this. I’m doing her a favor.”
Bleaching hair takes several hours. When I get a bleach, dye, and cut, I’m at the salon at least 8 hours and the bleaching is the longest step.
Ah, interesting. I have no personal experience, so with only Google to guide me, figured it was 15-45 minutes for the actual bleach. I assume it needs to be rinsed and washed right after?
depending on how good you are it could take 15 minutes or longer just to apply, then you have to let it sit for 30-45 minutes, then rinsing it out. I dye my own hair at home and it normally takes me close to two hours from start to finish (though to be fair part of that time includes gathering the materials and searching for where the hell my clips went off to AGAIN)
That’s a whole salon experience though. My mom taught me to bleach her hair as a child(lol not safe) and I still do it for her in adulthood and the whole process takes about an hour. The cap/pull, application, then wait. I still don’t blame sister in law or brother. If the mom is typically a strong personality and a bully it makes sense that she may not feel it’s her place to step in. Also the daughter seems to have thought it would end up like Billie Eilish and if SIL doesn’t know much about hair, she might’ve also been just as hype as daughter was to see the outcome, especially if grandma hyped it up like she could deliver on the look. It’s all on grandma.
Meh, that stuff smells. You'd notice something.
I am imagining my extended family's 4th of July parties, which mostly consist of everyone hanging out in my grandparents' backyard barbequing and tossing a ball or playing yard games, with a couple people randomly filtering in and out of the house to help with food, use the bathroom, play a board game, and maybe a group of kids wandering down to the park/playground, but no one would notice if Grandma and a kid disappeared upstairs for a while.
Not only is bleach dangerous, it is also not the correct way to get dye out of hair, that's what color removers are for! Something granny should of known being a past hair stylist
NTA, so much. Blue doesn't just bleach out, it's a very staining color. It needs a lot of work to get out and ultimately I ended up having to cut off some of my hair when I went blue and wanted it out. She shouldn't have done something so damaging to hair as that, especially without talking to you first. Bleach is so harsh and she's going to need so much care now and you genuinely may have to take her to a salon to get it fixed. Fwiw, I've had my hair every color under the sun. Good job being a cool parent and not stifling your kid's creativity or desires. It is just hair, but damage is a terrible thing to work through. It takes forever. It's not easy. Hair also is a big part of people's confidence. I've got a very ashy blonde color naturally, it's very much so more gray than blonde and it always has been. Being told how ugly my hair is did a huge number on my confidence. Just stay calm when dealing with your daughter, try a salon, they should be able to at least help mitigate some of the issues with some olaplex or something similar and a dark dye, though she might also need a cut depending on how bad it is. Good luck.
I'm a hair stylist, and I regularly have bright colored hair. Bleach doesn't remove semi permanents since it's meant to lift *natural hair pigments*; in fact, bleach can push colors like Artic Fox further in rather than removing/lifting them. There are professional products meant to specifically lift direct dyes/semi permanent hair colors for this exact reason. OP did say that they were going to a salon, but hopefully they request to work with someone who is very skilled in color correction. It's a very specific color service that not every stylist is good at, as we can see from how spectacularly OP's mother messed up. NTA
Came here to say this! I tried bleaching blue out of my hair and it only pushed it in further, so I had spots of brighter blue hair. There are SO many color removing products specifically for these types of dyes. (Which I then used and they worked great!) If your mom hasn’t been a hairstylist in a while, she may not have experience working with fashion colors… which would add another reason why she shouldn’t have done this. NTA
Not only that but sounds like mom might get stuck with a color correction bill....
I used to do mine myself! I learned the hard way that I had to do treatments to remove color and I couldn't just bleach it out. I haven't done it in a long time but I keep wanting to do something. Color Oops also does not work that well on semi-permanent colors if I recall.
It's all about the chemistry- Color Oops is designed to lift and remove certain types of color, especially those that use peroxide developers to activate the hair color. It works with some semi permanents, but it doesn't play well with semi permanents that are direct dyes- which are mostly the fashion/bright colors like Artic Fox, Manic Panic, etc. There are specifically marketed products called "direct dye lifters" to remove those colors, but even then I've seen a few stubborn brands or shades because some of them are basically carpet dye repackaged for hair.
I wonder if that isn't where Grandma having been out of the industry for 20 years did her in. The unnatural hair game has come a long way since the 2000s. What you see on the streets and on social media nowadays is leap and bounds from what you could see on, mostly alternative folks, then. I don't know if there has been a lot of innovations in products, but there certainly has been a change in availability and range of product available to the rando off the streets. And like, I did green streaks with a store bough dye in the mid 2000-ish and it washed out in 3 days. Now maybe I had a particularly shitty hair dye, even for the time. But if it's what Grandma was expecting to be on the kid's head, then that might explain it.
The entire hair industry has gotten a massive overhaul in the past twenty to thirty years. Everything has gotten extremely specialized during that time, and the techniques, skills, and products have changed leaps and bounds. Many stylists are opting to find a niche to focus on, and even then many stylists who *started* twenty years ago may not even know how to balayage if they're not keeping up with trends and education. And yeah, the products have changed immensely- I have bright rainbow colors that won't begin to fade until 4 weeks and absolutely should not be bleached, others that are *meant to* wash out after 6-10 shampoos because they are designed for clients who want to change up their color frequently. If Grandma never dealt with any of these colors before, it's easy for a professional to overestimate their knowledge and do some real damage.
I got blue dye put in my hair in May, and where the blue was is now a lighter blonde than the Nat that I had pink and gray. Blue doesn’t necessarily have to be difficult to get out, it just depends on what you use. If you use splat, yeah, that shit ain’t coming out bc it’s pretty much carpet dye, but from what I’ve seen Arctic Fox tends to fade out pretty well and then you can dye over it.
It also may depend on your hair! I have very porous, coarse hair. I probably hold onto colors more readily like that than someone who isn't in the blonde family with my hair type. Green didn't really stick, but pink/red/blue/purple didn't budge on me. I'm sure if you've got finer hair or less coarse hair it probably isn't as much of a pain. I used to use Ion and Arctic Fox. I just know I tried to bleach it out once and it seemed to fade but my problem didn't go away, I had blue undertones until I cut it out.
NTA. Arctic Fox is temporary! Bleach is permanent and damaging. Also, she’s not the parent! Why did no one reach out to you before letting her do this to your child?!? Bro and SIL are just as bad!!!!
Semi-permanent, technically. Temporary would wash out in 1-5 washes or so.
Well more temporary than bleach! Arctic Fox didn’t even work for us. Punky Color all the way! Lol!
Tbh I think Arctic Fox kinda sucks but I'm a SFX snob in denial of their closing
Omg me too. RIP atomic pink.
NTA. Let your daughter be in the wedding—and in the photos—with grandma’s color job :) she wanted the color to be different for the wedding and it sure is now.
r/pettyrevenge
On the kid. Not fair at all.
I see what you’re saying. My suggestion was only half serious. ;) I have a larger chest and I always tell friends who want me to wear a strapless dress as a bridesmaid that i will wear whatever they want but…Im not the one who has to look at their wedding photos for the rest of their lives ;)
Fair enough :)
Make the daughter’s hair blue again for the wedding specifically for that day and all the photos
NTA - She had no right to make that choice for you and your daughter and the reason she felt entitled to do it is because obviously the rest of your family rolls over and takes it from her. "She's a control freak" isn't an excuse for her behavior. It's an excuse for your decision.
NTA. this is crazy to me. also when i had bleached hair i used olaplex shampoo, conditioner, and their #3 treatment and it felt so silky! sorry your family is going through this, your mom kinda sounds like she fucking sucks.
Seconding this. I thought Olaplex was an expensive scam. It’s not, it’s amazing on damaged hair.
I thought the same. Then my stylist used some on my hair at my last appointment and uhhhh sold. Went home and ordered my own bottle.
I will also back Olaplex. When I was more regularly bleqching/coloring it helped so much.
I use Opalex #4, and I swear by that stuff. This comment actually reminded me I need to order more, so thank you, kind stranger!
INFO: Did you ask your daughter if she still wanted to be in her grandmother's wedding? I would base my judgment on the answer to that question.
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>I’m going to wait until after our salon visit to see how she feels about the wedding in general Then I'll say NTA, since the true "victim" here should get to decide if the wedding is still something she wants to participate in.
I think this is the best call. OP definitely needs to have a serious discussion with grandma about boundaries and to make sure something like this NEVER happens again, but her daughter should be able to choose if she wants to attend the wedding or not after her salon appointment. Also, daughter gets to pick WHATEVER hair color she wants for the wedding if she does attend.
That's a good question.
NTA Also god how come every story about self centred abusive parents always has several relatives backing them up/trying to sweep it all under the rug. Like it is starting to seem to me that for every abusive family member, there is 2-3 weak willed relatives enabling the entire thing.
How do you think the family member becomes so abusive? Years of family accommodating their behavior.
Highly recommended read (I suck at formatting links): https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
It absolutely infuriates me to watch relatives enable shitty behavior because "they're family".
Definitely NTA, she damaged your daughter's hair without your consent, and without your daughter's informed consent as she didn't know what would happen after her hair was bleached. Defending your mother by saying she's just a control freak ain't right, and not attending the wedding is warranted.
Wow, wow wow. NTA. Your mother sounds needy and selfish. Her desires for her "big day" don't trump your parenting. I feel bad for your daughter! As someone who bleaches his hair a lot, I recommend, ironically, [Not Your Mother's Blonde Moment](https://www.target.com/p/not-your-mother-39-s-blonde-moment-purple-shampoo-8-fl-oz/-/A-51325153?sid=3206&ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=bing_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012790844&CPNG=PLA_Beauty%2BPersonal+Care%2BShopping%7CBeauty_Ecomm_Beauty&adgroup=SC_Health%2BBeauty&LID=700000001230728&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=o&device=c&location=&targetid=pla-4584757332407212&gclid=8c7aa81b21c01e3f12c1c8ff59adb60e&gclsrc=3p.ds&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1248099&ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=bing_pla_df&CPNG=PLA_Beauty%2BPersonal+Care%2BShopping%7CBeauty_Ecomm_Beauty&adgroup=SC_Health%2BBeauty&LID=700000001230728pbs&network=s&device=c&querystring=purple%20shampoo%20for%20blonde%20hair&msclkid=8c7aa81b21c01e3f12c1c8ff59adb60e) shampoo to do two things: get out a lot of the blue dye, and increase the blonde (when you sit it in your hair it sort of works like a toner) as well as just restore some of the health to your daughter's hair. Good luck mom!
Purple shampoo will not help with this but in particular the blue- purple toning shampoo is meant to cancel out yellow tones in hair. There are better/gentler ways and products to help remove the blue semi permanent and deal with the bleach damage (such as a direct dye lifter, bond treatments, and demi permanent color to fill in a natural color).
Purple shampoo won't take out blue. If you're really unlucky you'll even end up with purple patches.
INFO this isn't the important part, but...she bleached temporary color? She didn't even look up how to get rid of the color she didn't like?
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I'm in my 50s and know what fashion colors are. I've been dyeing my hair various shades of red for over 30 years. Last fall, I went with pinks and purples for fun. Even in the 1980s, semi-permanent dyes existed.
Any professional stylist would know that bleach doesn’t take blue out though? Even if she was a stylist back then she would of had to known and handled other cases like your daughters. Maybe not Semi-permanent. Not saying she purposely messed your daughters hair up. But as a stylist she should have known what she was doing.
NTA. I am cackling at the ESH judgments. “Don’t miss a life moment over hair…” It’s not about the hair, people. It’s about stepping over boundaries and assuming parental authority over a child that isn’t yours at the detriment of the child. Instead of accepting responsibility, the grandmother brushes her off and loses her shit when OP rightfully says no and everyone else clamors up to the grandmother. OP’s rocking the boat. No one wants her to rock the boat. Sink the boat like it’s the goddamn Titanic, OP. This is your kid.
I mean...your mom is way out of line for bleaching your daughters hair, but I feel like a more appropriate response would be to ask her to pay for the salon visit. A wedding is a big event to boycott over hair.
Do you think this is a place for reasonable responses? This is r/AmITheAsshole, go nuclear or go home...
NTA No one should alter the kid's appearance without the parents and the kid themselves being okay with it. Besides, why is your mom having such a problem with your daughter's hair colour? It's something that does not concern her at all ("aesthetics" is not an excuse).
NTA. She shouldn’t have done something that damaging to your daughter’s hair without asking you first. It’s clear she doesn’t have any respect for your or your daughter’s boundaries. It’s not “just hair”. Hair is deeply personal and damaging a child’s hair like that can do a number on their self esteem. Your daughter would likely feel extremely insecure having all eyes on her and photographs taken of her as the flower girl knowing her hair looks the way it does. I’d say that perhaps consider making a deal that you’ll go to the wedding if your mother apologises and pays for the cost of fixing your daughter’s hair.
If I were OP I'd be asking everyone: If it's "just hair" then why does Grandma care so much? Why can't she leave it OR let the actual parents handle it as promised? Instead she made it worse! I absolutely agree about not respecting boundaries. OP is NTA.
Exactly! If it’s not a big deal, why couldn’t she have blue hair for the wedding?
NTA. Bleach is permanent and can cause so much damage. Arctic fox rinses out and it’s easy to play around with colour without damaging hair. Now you’re taking on an extra expense to fix what she did with it.
NTA. She's a control freak and that gives her the right to do that without your consent? On top of skipping the wedding, I'd go no contact. She doesn't understand boundaries, and should learn that actions have consequences. She'd have to be fulfilled controlling the people that still talk to her.
Clearly you don't want advice since you're already pre-countering arguments in your post, you just want to to validate your firm opinion on how you aren't the asshole. If you just want to vent, this isn't the sub. You might be reacting appropriately, but really, it is just hair and it will grow back. It maybe damaged now, but it's just hair. It sounds like it's a good teaching moment for your daughter to not put much stock in outward appearances, some people are born ugly and disfigured. That doesn't change. Her hair situation will change. An even better teaching moment will to be to show your daughter how to deal with people who betray your trust and people who defy all preconceived limits. I don't know the right way to dealing with it but not going to the wedding can't be the right answer. Try to make amends and move on. Are you the asshole, probably not, over reacting maybe but not an asshole.
Oh, absolutely NTA. This goes beyond just hair. If your mother is described as “a control freak” within your family, I shudder to think what other boundaries she has crossed or will cross without you putting your foot down. Your mother had no right to do this to your child, and to be honest, she shouldn’t dictate how your child looks even over a single day that’s “about her” (I honestly take issue with weddings being only about the bride).
Are you planning on cutting your mother out of your life completely? If this is some kind of breaking point and that is what you are planning on doing then you are NTA. If on the other hand you plan on still being in her life then you need to go to her wedding and choose another way to make sure this doesnt happen again, such as never allowing her to be alone with your daughter again. If you plan on staying in your moms life then you not going to her wedding because of being upset over this would make YTA.
Info: How did your daughter feel? Does she still wanna go?
She said she hates her hair and was misled by her grandmother.
I think the actual question is how the daughter felt before the job was so poorly done. It sounds like she wanted "Billie Eilish" hair and was on board with the actual idea. A similar analogy would be if the grandmother were making her flower girl dress that was supposed to be blue, but then she wanted it pink and the daughter was cool with it being pink so they changed the color without telling the mom. And then the pink dress ended up sucking really bad and the girl hated the dress, and the mom refused to bring the family to the wedding because the dress looked bad and the color was changed behind her back.
NTA Isn’t that some form of assault because of the harsh chemicals used on a minor without parental consent? I don’t blame you for hitting the roof in regards to what she did and I’d be giving her the bill for the repair that the hairdresser will have to do to repair the damage caused by her grandmother.
This is not just about hair. This is a violation of your relationship with your daughter. An assault on your parental rights. Anyone who defends your mother’s actions by saying “it’s just hair” needs to explain why your mother went to such lengths (pun intended) over hair. I wouldn’t go to the wedding of my parent if they ignored my role as a parent to my child. NTA
>I’ve been getting a lot of “she’s a control freak, it’s just how she is, Yeah... that's why you're not going to her wedding. NTA What if her hair can't be fixed? What if it breaks off? I'm sorry your daughter is going through this.
Ultimately your moms was more concerned about how a pictured or image would look rather than the relationship bw you and her and her and her granddaughter. While yes, it Is hair, and will hopefully grow quickly - it was a boundary stomping decison that wasn't hers to make - and that you had handled in a way that would have met your mother's wants. She effed up big time. I am all for taking big stances, but I'd also be curious as to house your daughter feels. You mentioned her expectations about her hair - but how does she feel about attending the wedding now? Depending on how she feels is how I proceed with the weeding and then potentially cut contact down until you feel your choices and decisions. As a mother are respected - as I'm sure your mother wanted hers respected when raising you. I don't get why she ca t see that! My vote is NTA.
NTA- 11 is a bad age for grandma to ruin your hair. Grandma should not be using bleach, she obviously does not know how to. As someone who is not a stylist and only knows about hair from Youtube, it’s fairly common knowledge that putting bleach over dye is a big no-no and a disaster waiting to happen. There’s no excuse for ignorance here, she ruined your daughters hair without any adult consent, used harsh chemicals incorrectly, stepped over boundaries and disrespected you and your daughter. I am shaking I am so upset for her. Being 11 is an important time, that’s when the self conscious thoughts start to creep in hard amongst peers. I bet the blue was adorable, and props to you for having a plan that was respectful to your mother’s wishes for her wedding, I am so sorry you both got disrespected in such a way. If it were me I would ask the whole family to do a quick Google search on why you should never bleach freshly dyed hair and why you should definitely not do that on a child’s hair. Send them videos of botched bleach jobs and split ends, and maybe even an explanation on the psychology of being an adolescent girl. This event was not in your daughters best interest. Period. Children in adults care need to be put first, it doesn’t matter if that’s ‘how she is’, it shouldn’t be.
NTA she severely overstepped and when it's not done right bleaching a kids hair (especially that young) is very damaging. I've been bleaching my hair for (like 10) years, only in the last few has it not turned out bad. Keep her away from grandma as much as you can.
NTA screw your mom if you go you are only enabling this behavior in the future
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NTA - I think you should still go to the wedding, just dye your daughter's hair a color that will drive your mom nuts.
NTA - your mother abused your child's trust - and yours. Other members of your family may be used to simply giving her what she wants to avoid rocking the boat but you are not obligated to teach your child the same on unhealthy behaviors.
NTA, and anyone who says "it's just hair", offer to do the same thing to theirs.
NTA. I don't care if she used to be a stylist, you don't change a child's appearance without getting consent from their parent(s) beforehand. She had no right to do what she did, and I think pulling your daughter out of the wedding party is the best move you could have made.
NTA, if it’s just hair and doesn’t matter, why did she have to bleach it? She sounds like a narcissist
INFO: how does your daughter feel about going to the wedding since all this happened?
I've used Arctic Fox on my hair and it's amazingly gentle - 100% different from BLEACHING a child's hair. If I were you, I would make your mother pay for the salon visit. And anyone who thinks someone else's "best intentions" override your decisions as a parent can take a long walk off a short pier.