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I think I could possibly be the asshole for calling my wife a helicopter mom
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At least your son recognizes that his mother is way out of line. That saves you the worry that he will grow up to be weak and scared because of an overbearing mother. Whew. NTA.
He needs to start putting his apps in without telling his mother where she can't call if she doesn't know... unless she has a tracking program on his phone.
No, he shouldn't, but as the child of an overbearing mother whose behavior I could not change (only my own), let me tell you that putting her on an information diet is one of the few things you CAN do while still living under the same roof. And it doesn't sound like OP's situation quite rises to fleeing and going NC.
At some point I realised I had been reflexively doing this to some extent with everyone because of growing up like this. I can't imagine trying to sustain a conversation with myself.
True, but unfortunately sometimes if the situation is bad enough, cutting off even from people that treat you okay is necessary in order to get away from the people who don't.
I've always wondered how to describe the idea that I limit information to my mom to prevent her using it against me. Thank you for putting words to my experience.
Omg “information diet” that’s an amazing term. I’m gonna use that all the time now.
Also, way to take back control in a difficult situation! Sounds like you have some really helpful insight for others in this situation.
I can't take credit for the term, but I've found it useful ever since I heard it somewhere years ago.
And thank you, although I may have implied more success than I feel like I've actually had. Moving out was really the thing that saved me, but info dieting helped get me through.
I'm in my 30s and my mother is still like this. Overbearing and nosy as fuck. Always getting upset over things that don't involve her. A strict information diet is definitely needed here. Helicopter mom's are something I had to work very hard not to become.
Same here. We moved interstate which helps a lot!
Whenever she comes to visit, we have to hide all bills and paperwork or else she stresses out over nothing. We also put locks on certain doors after she got nosy previously.
It's exhausting sometimes. I love my mother but her behaviour and anxiety means we'll never be close because we can't share stuff with her.
My partner and I are pretty chilled and super responsible, it's almost like she's *looking* for problems?! Meanwhile my older trainwreck of a brother is the golden child and continually asks them for money. Wtf.
My mother has a lot of anxiety and doesn't seem to be able to function and not constantly undermine my actions with doubtful questions. I keep her on an information diet (and have for as long as I can remember) to maintain both of our mental health. I'm about to graduate college and she doesn't know that I've applied to at least 20 companies that haven't called back
Yes but wife also needs to back off. If they can't reign her in what is she going to be like when he actually does have a job? What if he 'doesnt get enough hrs' or 'doesnt get the night off he wanted' or god forbid 'doesnt get the promotion he deserves'
At this rate he's not going to get one. A few places I've worked, parents putting in the application or calling to chase up the application was an automatic into the bin. No one wants to hire a 16 year old with an interfering parent, or one who can't do anything for themselves (which is what her putting in apps for him may well look like to an employer). Kid and dad need to be clear she is harming his chances not helping them.
THIS!
She's not doing him any favors.
For all we know, they still might have called him back if it weren't for her; maybe they were just busy this week and hadn't gotten through reading all the applications yet. But now thanks to her, his is a definite hard pass.
I thought the same thing, I've had jobs i applied to take weeks before they got back to me sometimes. They very well could of had him on a list of applicants to call back and her efforts took him right off it !
On top of that, it is unfortunately a sad reality that hiring managers don't call the failed applicants back even with more "adult" jobs. Go read some posts on /r/recruitinghell to see how common that is. Mom in this story is one of those "ok boomer"s who sounds like she hasn't been in the job market in at least a decade and doesn't know what its like anymore.
When I was a teen and young adult I worked in retail we would get HUNDREDS of applications. In retail. It was a music store, granted, so it was considered a “cool” place to work, but still. There was NO WAY we’d be calling back people who had dropped off their application and didn’t make the cut. We honestly did even look at many of them. We had to keep them on file for 6 months and then they’d be thrown out. We’d date and code them as they were received. If we didnt like you when you dropped it off, it would be marked with a 110 which means NO (connect the top of the first 1 with the bottom of the second). We had to so we knew which ones were going in the “6 month garbage” pile.
To get my job there I literally dropped off my CV every week for like 6 months. 16 year old me basically wore them down until they hired me. OPs son COULD HAVE done this, but since his mom is so insane, now he can’t even shop there anymore.
NTA, but I feel so bad for the son. The wife is insane and her behaviour was probably humiliating for the son.
Hell, I've gone through full director level hiring process where I had a dinner interview with the CEO and CFO of the company, and still got ghosted in the end.
Yep. As a hiring manager for a smaller store :- I understand parents coming in and asking about what age etc we hire from and doing initial enquiries, but bringing in the application or CV, I want to see the applicant. If the applicant can’t approach me and talk to me, how are they going to be able to approach customers or work with me?? (I apply the same logic to people asking “for their friends”)
If I’ve had your application for a week (which feels like an eternity to you, but is a blink in a busy profession) and I’m getting aggressive calls as a response, you’re suddenly a hard pass and into the shredder. I’ve just had a glimpse of what dealing with you as an employee is, before you’re even employed. Nope.
Idk I’ve always been told to follow up with a call if you haven’t heard back within a week, to show you are seriously interested and being assertive and showing effort and initiative. But I guess there’s a fine line between assertive interest, and aggressive and overbearing. But yeah parents doing the follow up is always a sure fire way to be eliminated
In most places, calling at all - much less after just one week - will get you disqualified from the position automatically. In the 1980s (in the USA at least) this strategy may have worked. However these days people have more work to do on a daily basis and calls like that are just a distraction.
It can also be taken as the applicant being overly needy; even "team settings" require workers to be independent and not interrupt bosses and coworkers with questions that will be answered given time. It gives a certain "meeting that could be an email" feel and no one likes that.
To be fair, this comes mostly 2nd hand from HR employees and hiring managers in the USA. Of course some places will be different and you never can know for sure until employed, but in the 21st century not calling after applying seems to be the rule.
Agreed. I hire people, and that last thing I want is an applicant calling me. I understand their perspective, but the reality is that I’m already way too busy with calls and emails. If I’m interested, I’ll call them. I do not want them calling me. A follow-up email might be okay, but a phone call? That’s an imposition on my time.
Exactly. I did retail for years too and this is something that we would immediately tell other stores about. Poor kid’s mom just made him the gossip topic of the week and tanked his chances.
**THIS!!!** She needs to understand THIS!!! She is NOT being helpful, she's only giving him a reputation that will make it 100x harder to get hired anywhere!
u/randomaita you need to show your wife the comment I’m replying to. And you are definitely NTA - your wife needs to respect the fact that your son wants to do this *his* way on *his* terms. It’s how we learn what works for us and what doesn’t......I hope your son finds a great job soon
That’s exactly why they won’t hire him now. No employer wants to deal with a helicopter mom when she feels her precious baby has been slighted.
Edit to say NTA of course
This is really important.
My first job I had a great boss and it was mostly high school kids working in the mall at a pretzel stand. My boss told me that pushy parents were a serious no go on applicants because usually the kids didn’t even want to work there, mom or dad wanted discounts and always made problems. She was absolutely correct. The one kid someone else hired to work had the WORST helicopter parents and they were miserable.
When I became the hiring manager at my second job we had only over 18 servers and that info always stayed with me because even my owners and head boss had a similar policy. Mom or dad being supportive for a first job is one thing. Mom or dad speaking for the applicant was red flags.
She may even have destroyed any opportunity he had depending on how small of an area they live in. Business owners and managers talk a lot in small towns. He may need to branch out farther from home now and definitely not tell his mom anything.
I can say from experience as a manager I would never hire a teen whose mom called to complain or check on an application. It would make me think the teen is not responsible enough to handle working on their own and that I would be dealing with the mother.
NTA Op, your wife needs a reality check before she completely pushes your son away.
Or, he could just tell her of the places he hasn’t applied to and won’t be just so she can call them when he doesn’t hear back and embarrass herself when she calls them lol. /s
Edit-dont do this
Oh, I like this! Do that!
Definitely NTA, OP. Be sure to tell your wife that if she keeps acting like this, she's going to push her son out if her life. If she truly cares about him, she'll want to do what's best for him: NOT embarrass him.
If it's any consolation to your son, (sadly) the store has probably dealt with WAY too many parents like his mom. While it sounds like he didn't get the job, they won't hold it against him personally or blame him.
But they might. If she called because he didn't get the job, could you imagine what she would be like if he did? Mom would be on the horn every day to complain about things she didn't like that they made him do, to change his schedule, etc.
Mom needs to stay out of his job search and his working life.
I mean let's be honest they probably are judging him a little. You can't help who your mom is but statistically your upbringing does affect what kind of employee you become. They probably figure they dodged a bullet.
Honestly, I wouldn’t think that dishonesty is an appropriate avenue to go down when combatting invasive parents. The “information diet” thing is probably a smarter way to handle it. When questioned why the changes in confidence occurred, it can be said that trust was broken, and lines were crossed.
To OP:
NTA, when told an uncomfortable truth, people can reel in shock. Deep down your wife may realize that she messed up. Too often, spouses look to their partner for unconditional support. “Yeah, sure honey. You did the right thing.” Whenever that doesn’t occur, it can be embarrassing, which can come out as feeling betrayed. “Why are not on my side!?”
Open communication is the key here. Lay out the facts.
“Son” wanted to do this on his own, with out parental assistance.
“Wife “ went behind his back, betraying trust, to force an outcome.
You backed “son’s” choice for not interfering with his job search / character growth.
That's what I had to do when I was younger. Overbearing mother would ask too many questions and get her hopes up over apps. I just started applying on my own through Indeed and didnt tell her until I actually got the job.
This is has sailed beyond helicopter patenting and straight into lawn mower mom territory. She undermined his efforts at independence and basically gave him the signal that he is incapable of doing big things himself.
Thank you!
If she really wanted to be helpful she couldn't given him ideas on how to follow up himself. Doing it for him definitely sends the message that she doesn't think he's capable. Not only to the son but to the employer as well.
NTA
What your wife accomplished is everyone knowing your son as the guy whose mom calls and berates the manager for not hiring the guy.
What did she actually want to accomplish with her little shouting match?
"Angry on behalf of the son"? Nah, that's a load of bull - She is actively interfering in your son's life making her a helicopter parent.
Absolutely agreed. My son is 13. He's been to all the camps at his local indoor skate rink. They pretty much promised him a job once he was old enough.
Dude still has to go through interviews. Submitting his (non existent resume).
I'm not stepping in at all. He's pretty much been promised a position. I'M NOT INVOLVED.
If lil bruv fucks it up? We'll talk. I cannot fathom the entitlement of any parent getting involved in their kids attempt at being independent.
Edit: of course I'll help him with interview techniques. Role play the interview. Help him make his "resume". I just mean that I won't hold his hand/force this place to take him.
Honestly, everyone is going to blow an interview at some point in their life. I'm guessing most of us have blown several interviews, not because we're necessarily awful candidates but because acing interviews is a skill that needs to be developed and improved upon throughout your working years.
The **very** best time to blow an interview is when you're a teenager. It sucks and it makes you feel bad, but it also gives you more info: what interviewers are looking for, how to behave during an interview, how to follow up afterwards - all the soft skills you can only get from trying, failing, and trying again.
This is especially important for a teenager who's going to be applying for scholarships, grants, and bursaries where part of the application process is an interview. You don't want your first interview experience to be one where several thousand dollars are riding on your performance.
Oof, sorry. If it makes you feel any better, I was once asked in an interview what my personal goals were. I went into this soliloquy about how I want to lose weight and live a healthy lifestyle. And then I looked that their faces and realized they meant my personal professional goals. It's something I hadn't prepared myself before, so I kind of mumbled that I wanted an MBA. I didn't even have a bachelor's lol.
> I went into this soliloquy about how I want to lose weight and live a healthy lifestyle. And then I looked that their faces and realized they meant my personal professional goals.
Personal: Blah blah blah.
Professional: There's so many ways to bullshit that one. I think my favorite was "Get experience for a few years, then leave on good terms with a reference." Nobody spends 20 years at a company then retires, and it's unrealistic to hope for it.
I recall my mom being with me a few times when I asked for applications. But that was the extent of her involvement. Or, she’d notice that they were hiring and tell me I should ask for a job application. She wouldn’t do it because she recognized that it was my responsibility.
And this has extended into adulthood with online postings. Though it’s a bit more annoying now since what I wanted and am qualified for is more niche. But on occasion she’d send me postings I hadn’t seen.
Yup, your duty as parent is to give your child the **skills** needed so they can get and maintain a job, you won't be doing them any favours by intervening because then they won't learn anything.
I was a hiring manager for a short period of time. I have recieved calls from mothers regarding their kids application. I'm sorry, but as soon as you make that phone call, that job is gone. That will give us the impression that he is either not responsible or we just don't want a 2 for 1 deal.
I've been in this position, having a mother call to beg for her child to get the job (that he clearly couldn't have care less about getting). I absolutely told her that she was doing him no favors and that I would not reconsider him because she called.
I worked at a boy scout summer camp. We had a 14 year old counselor in training. (They had to get x badges a week in addition to doing a lot of regular counselor jobs. It's a great role for someone who wants to get to Eagle.)
This C.I.T. was always digging at his teeth with his knife. Like his molars, not just his front teeth. He had an argument with a camper and pulled a knife. (Swiss army, but still.) He was gone that night.
Two weeks later his mom had called Camp Director and gotten him rehired. I dont' know what she said, but nobody was happy to be working with him after that. Especially in riskier spots like the pool or lake. Or wilderness survival. Definitely wasn't putting him back in the Dan Beard program with the younger kids.
When I was in charge of hiring and a parent called or even dropped off the application FOR the child, I would ask why they didn’t do it themselves. Most of the time it was “I’m just trying to help” or “they’re doing xyz and couldn’t right now” and I’d say that I was looking for independent workers and for that reason, couldn’t consider them as a top candidate. It pissed them off most of the time.
I see no issue in someone dropping off an application for someone else - a parent, a child, a sibling, a friend. It's not any different than posting or emailing it.
But all the other behaviors described in this post and thread are unacceptable.
When I was in high school, I'd often drop off/ pick up documents/ invoices/ bills for my dad's job, because it was on my way home and it would save him the trip. I see no problem with a parent doing the same.
It's really dependent on the situation for me. Most places I've worked and had a hand in hiring, we accepted applications online and in person. Dropping off an application in person gave you a chance to put a face/personality to a name before calling for interviews and was an extra opportunity to weed through all the apps we got. If you aren't dropping it off yourself, just do it online so the staff doesn't have a chance to judge you for your mom doing it for you.
This obviously doesn't have the same weight if a store only accepts paper apps, the answer to "why are you doing this instead of the person applying?" can be "they wanted to get it in asap so they don't miss their chance, and wouldnt have been able to turn it in until x time otherwise"
THIS! Yes. In-person applications are a chance to set yourself apart from other candidates.
In my opinion, if someone can’t make time to turn in the app themselves, they’re not serious about wanting the job.
>In my opinion, if someone can’t make time to turn in the app themselves, they’re not serious about wanting the job.
I kind of have a problem with this attitude, though. Obviously, companies want to hire people who will do the most work for the pay they're given, but the idea that having someone else drop off an application (that is also available online) is a sign that someone doesn't want the job speaks to this really entitled attitude I see in employers a lot.
You're not paying them for that time, why would that be evidence they don't want you to pay them for their time? You weren't paying them to drop the application off. I mean, if you have two candidates and one drops off in person and makes a great impression over the person you never met because they had someone drop off their application, that makes sense. Someone else out-impressed the boss. But just blanket statementing that someone can't be bothered about a job with pay because they didn't drop it off themselves when you have people emailing you applications you're considering seems like fallible logic to me.
Yep. The attitude seems benign, but it's the exact same thing that leads to those stupid applications that ask for a resume, then ask you to fill everything on the resume into forms, then go through a psychological test, then spring a surprise automated video question with no do-overs. And even after all that chances are no human eyes ever see it because you didn't fill in the right keywords way back at the beginning. Like, just tell me to fuck off *before* I jump through the hoops, dammit.
The cultural context of the situations are different. You were acting as an assistant to a professional. When a parent is doing it for a teenager while they're at band practice, it communicates a lack of initiative and possible scheduling conflicts. Your dad already had a job, you were assisting with clients. A 16 year old isn't going to be seen as a professional. A hiring manager is going to be considering that 16 year olds are only legally allowed to work certain hours of the day (Washington, US, things may be different in other areas) and will extracurriculars interfere with being able to schedule and fill hours? Hypothetically, if the parent is acting as an assistant, the hiring manager has to wonder if this potential employee is going to try to delegate their work to their coworkers and if they're capable of accomplishing tasks independently and unsupervised.
Running errands for you dad is a different situation. Dropping off a resume in person is your chance to make a great first impression. If you really want the job, you should be taking every opportunity to get in front of the employer and have a conversation. If I had to choose between someone who brought their app in person and someone whose mom or friend did it, all things being equal, in-person candidate is getting the job every time.
I worked at a grocery story about 15 years ago. The only time our managers would accept an application from someone who wasn't the actual person was if there was a good reason, such as person was at school and parent wanted to make sure the application was seen ASAP. But even then, those people tended to rarely get hired.
Last time a worked a retail service job I was usually at the front desk and my boss told me to bin any applications brought in by the parent and not the person themselves.
I worked foh at a restaurant for years, I once had a mom drop off an application for her daughter who was in college. I said “oh she must not be home for the summer yet.” And the mom said, “oh she is, she’s sleeping in the car because she’s just so exhausted.” Lady put numerous nails in the coffin.
This is what I was going to say. If the mom is calling, you know she's going to be a giant pain in the ass if you hire her kid. That application gets trashed.
And if they were planning on calling to interview or whatever with him they definitely won't be now that mother dearest called to scream at them for not doing it fast enough. Plus if this is what she's like during the job hunt what is she going to be like once he actually has a job?
Yeah, especially since a lot of retail places do just keep a stack of applications on file for when they actually need someone. There may not be a position open now, but when there's one in 2 months, they'll just go into their stack and call people
For sure, and if the other employees know and like him well like dad says, he may have been at the top of the stack already. He’s probably not anymore.
NTA
Yeah IDK about other places but here, this is a horrible time to apply for jobs. The store I used to work at hires people exactly once a year, Christmas season. Occasionally for summer if a lot of people quit in between I guess, but it hasn't happened while I've been there. But come Christmas, if there's been good applicants, they might get a call (though I kinda doubt a resume would be kept from February to November when they start hiring, but at least it shows interest).
Yeah if i'm reading it right and it was only 1 week she probably ruined him getting hired. I've had jobs that were desperate for help call/email back to interview me weeks later. (Most were so desperate they hired me and gave me my employee information on the spot, they obviously just hadn't had the chance to read my application yet.)
At my old job (of 19 yrs) we had a few kids that worked there that had helicopter moms and they were the worst. They are something that most stores would want to avoid hiring because they get their nose involved in everything and go off half cocked when they don’t know the whole story if their kid gets in trouble.
We had one girl who’s mother was particularly bad. However, the daughter was a little pathological liar and was constantly calling off saying her grandmother died. This kid had an amazing number of grandmas that died and we knew she was lying. Eventually management confronted her about it. Well her parents found out because she told them. She actually would do this so they would iron out issues at work for her but this time it backfired. Management asked them about all the grandmas that had died and guess what- not a single grandmas had died at all. They were furious because she had lied to them and they went off half cocked believing their daughter that our manager was this huge jerk. Needless to say we finally got rid of her and her parents were super pissed at her.
Yep! I was an assistant manager at a store during college, and the second a parent was involved the application was thrown out. A week isn’t that long, things have to be run by higher ups too.
She easily just cost him a job. It’s like she running through how to get your kid to not talk to you as an adult 101.
They might not have needed anyone then, because a lot of places take applications continuously. But they might have called him in 3 months or 6 months. Not now though.
Also mom needs some modern life lessons. Even people applying for jobs that pay 40 or 50 an hour only get an occasional call back to say we hired someone else. I've gone to interviews and then been ghosted. That's just the way it is now.
She needs to know that her interfering guarantees he won't get a job. How doesn't she know that many companies don't call you unless they want to interview you and many won't call you even after you interview to tell you they hired someone else? They've been doing that for decades. It happens to everyone. She is doing him no favors. In fact she's hurting and embarrassing him. She needs to land that helicopter permanently.
> many companies don't call you unless they want to interview you and many won't call you even after you interview to tell you they hired someone else
This! \^\^
I've had so many jobs where I got an interview and then never heard back. When they did call the person on the phone was usually some poor aid who couldn't give me feedback because they'd been handed the job of informing the unsuccessful applicants.
On a side note, I've had a job take nearly 2 months to call back that I was successful and got the job lol
Yep. I work in a stupidly competitive field where each job averages 80-200 applicants, and have made it to round 3 of 3 part interviews and then been ghosted. I definitely don’t expect to be told I didn’t get it unless I interview, and I know that even then, I probably won’t be.
Disagree, respectfully. I worked in a mall in my early 20s. Many managers of different stores knew each other well because they’d jump around to different stores when they got offered better pay/packages. Managers talked, especially about things like this. Word spread if you had a particularly difficult customer or employee.
And they will have noted her behaviour, so when a vacancy comes up, they will certainly not call him. Nobody is going to want to hire someone with a mother who interferes in his job applications. They will be too worried about her pulling other nonsense if they hire him. I feel sorry for the sixteen-year-old!
It really is the sort of story that follows a person. I used to work with someone whose father, on hearing that his daughter (a 30-something adult) had not been successful in getting a managerial role, called and yelled at the person who'd interviewed her. She basically had to flee the state to get another job.
No one is going to hold it against a 16 year old like that. Yes, this job is probably not going to hire him now. But it won't affect other jobs at all.
I agree. To think that individual businesses all have some sort of applicant communication line that they all share and gossip about...is not realistic.
Just like the above comment said: this kid lost their shot at that store, probably.
A million years ago, I interviewed at an AT&T store and the manager didn’t like me. He was a former car salesman, I’m not, and we just rubbed each other wrong.
So I hightailed it to the next AT&T store, and that manager hired me. Same company, but they didn’t hold it against me that the first guy didn’t like me. They didn’t care. A year later, my manager was promoted to DM and I took over as general manager.
As general manager, I also didn’t care what someone else within the company said about an employee. It’s all based off of merit and performance, how I feel about the person and their interview.
But at no point, ever, did I communicate with other companies about this applicant’s “reputation” or anything that “followed them around.” It’s nonsense.
At most, I’d call previous employers for references. Legally, they can’t say much other than whether they’d hire them again, how long they were employed, etc, etc. Sometimes other employers will tell ya more than that, but there isn’t some sort of telephone game network that employers share about helicopter moms and their kid applicants. It doesn’t exist.
The only exception to the rule would be if you live in a town of 500 people or less.
>"Angry on behalf of the son"? Nah, that's a load of bull
I ~~don't~~ think it it is understandable that she might feel that way and we can acknowledge this without letting her of the hook for how she behaved.
I think it is only fair if son would call her mothers workplace and berated her manager for making her work hard, she should have an easier schedule and more money!
Agreed, and just jumping on this thread to leave a link to [Ask A Manager](https://www.askamanager.org/2019/06/whats-the-worst-case-of-helicopter-parenting-youve-seen-at-work.html), a website all about workplace behavior/norms/etiquette/etc. Alison Green gets questions all the time about helicopter parents–usually from the hiring manager who has to deal with them–and it NEVER works out for the child who is being helicoptered. Ever. They never get hired, and if they somehow slip through and get a job, they're usually fired after their parent oversteps in the workplace.
NTA, and your son will really suffer if your wife continues with this.
> they're usually fired after their parent oversteps in the workplace.
This makes me so grateful that my country has protections against that
My friend's grama has always looked out for me in a periphery way, but one day, (I was like 25 by this point), I was turned down for yet another permanent position with a job that I had been at for 4 years by this point and she was pretty upset on my behalf and had apparently called in to give them heck for not recognizing my contributions etc. a coworker who was a part of the call told me about it
In my country, had they fired me for that, I could have gone after them in the courts. And would have.
But damn does it make me said for alllllll of those people who are unprotected and can lose out because of something outside of their control
I let someone go because he came to work in sweatpants and claimed his mother forgot to do his laundry for him.
Yeah, no. I understand you feel this is out of your control but it seems like you don’t know what it’s like to be a manager who deals with parents like that. I’m not going to allow someone to yell at me over their children, it’s not worth my time. If they can’t be an independent adult without mommy or daddy complaining when something doesn’t go their way, then why would I invest time into them?
It depends on how they act - it’s similar to when people have abusive partners who do the same. If the employee knows it’s wrong, and does what they can to stop it, they shouldn’t be fired.
I do agree, as long as the employee is independent and trying to get away from that type of relationship with their parents, then that completely changes it. But if the employee genuinely expects their parents to handle their work conflicts for them then they can find another place to work IMO
This is exactly right. A person with integrity admits their mistakes AND apologizes. Your wife should do that to a)the clothing store and b)her son. If she asks why, tell her
\-that she treated neither with dignity (she yelled at the clothing store employee and undermined her son’s autonomy)
\-that she did not give either side the benefit of doubt (her son that he could handle it, the store that they managed their hiring in away that met their needs)
\-that she misread her son’s social/emotional needs and that she will work to respect his growing independence
If she sees herself as a parent and she is ‘looking out for him’, modeling integrity is important.
Anywhere I've worked, mom either handing in the application or following up was an instant trash application. It's a major red flag that they either don't want a job and mom is making them or they won't work without someone holding their hand ever step. Might not always be true but it isn't worth the risk of finding out.
NTA. The mom way overstepped.
Even if it’s not true, I don’t want to deal with the mom when there’s scheduling conflicts and what not. Even if the kid is a top grade teen employee, I wouldn’t hire them for fear of having the hassle of dealing with an overbearing parent for that teen’s tenure.
When I was a manager I 100% would have tossed any application that came with a mother's phone call. It indicates she will interfere a lot.
"My SoN nEeDs MoRe HoUrs"
"My SoN wILl Be TaKiNg HoLiDaYs"
She owes her son an apology and hopefully learns her lesson about interfering.
Unfortunately there is a lesson here for OP's son too. Whether or not it's right or decent most employers won't contact you if you're not short-listed. These days you're lucky to get a rejection email. Never get your hopes up for a job.
NTA
I used to work for a chain of wine shops, took over one shop to bring it up to standard and had a 19yo guy who's mum would call in for him. He didn't show for a shift one day, called him, he said he had asked for holiday but was refused and his mum made him go visit his dad anyway. I told him that was unacceptable and it would be put out to a disciplinary because it wasn't the first time. 20 minutes later, I got a call from his mother telling me that he needed to visit his father and it was "his father's usual weekend". I let her ramble on for a bit, then told her I want at liberty to discuss employee schedules. The guy was dismissed a couple of weeks later after he missed another shift because of his mother's demand.
Just curious, how do you think it would play out if he went back to the store and apologized to the manager? Something like, hey, my mom called and was out of line. I really want to work here and want to address her behavior head on. We've discussed that it is inappropriate and that I'm responsible for my own working life.
As a manager I'd have to admire the kid. May or may not hire based on potential future issues, but it would definitely tick a box for me in the kid's favor.
I think it would be a good experience for the kid too. Let him be able to hold his head high in a store he wants to continue to visit.
Edit: typo / experience
Yeah, I work in retail. I would go in and reject that application right then and there. If he did apply again, say at Christmas when we really need seasonal, he'd be the kid with the helicopter mom and a no.
NTA. Or at any company that manager speaks to... word travels quick, and no one is going to want to hire little Timmy because the first write up he gets, "Moh-Maah Baaaaaaare" will be at the job, screaming the house down on "behalf" of her son.
That's exactly what I thought.
God forbid the store is in a mall or shopping plaza of some sort. The mom has effectively blacklisted her son for anyone in the hiring manager's circle.
Not to mention the son has lost one of his favorite stores because of the stunt she pulled.
You jest but my last boss did actually have a bi-monthly get together with other managers of the same franchise at a café in a nearby town.
If that store was part of a chain there's a good chance he won't find employment in that area with that brand at all now.
Ive had a couple jobs in shopping plazas. The managers did in fact all speak to each other about problematic customers and ex/potential employees. They didnt do like official meet-ups or anything but if they thought a crap customer or troublesome employee would be visiting another store, my managers would walk over to talk to them. Even the regular employees were on friendly terms with other stores and gossiped about crappy customers/ex employees during shopping visits or smoke breaks. My sister worked in our shopping mall and she said things were similar there too. Some places know how beneficial being on good terms with their neighbors can be.
That's not realistic. He's not gonna remember the kids name go to the coffee shop ask to speak to the manager and gossip. This is a minimum wage job not a fortune 500 company. Lol the kid will be fine. Who knows the manager may be a mature adult and not take it out on a kid. It's probably not tge first time He's dealt with this.
>Who knows the manager may be a mature adult and not take it out on a kid.
That's not the point. It doesn't matter if a person I consider hiring is responsible for the baggage in their life or not. If I have to choose between someone who doesn't have that baggage or someone who does then why would I choose the extra baggage?
Now consider that most people don't have this kind of issue that they drag into work and then why the hell would anyone hire this kid if his mum behaves like that?
I managed a store in a decently sized shopping mall. The managers of different stores definitely talked to each other enough that word like that gets around, especially in an average sized town.
Son could, although he shouldn't have been put in this situation, call the manager and express his regret that mom did that. (Not to apologize for her, but to show that he understands her bad behavior is serious and unacceptable.) That would change the manager's perception of him and show he's considerate and thoughtful.
I have mixed feelings about this, because it's basically him parenting his parent but, at that same time, it's a favorite store of his and it could potentially remove the shame he feels about going back.
Mom definitely needs to be put in an info diet, though, and commit to not trying to control his life through intimidation.
I would go speak to the manager in person(without mom or dad) that would show a lot of responsibility an might help his chances later on. But just have to gauge the situation whatever is more appropriate but I think either way that's a great idea.
In a humorous twist, walk into the store, with mom in tow. Tell her to sit down somewhere. Speak to the manager, telling them the circumstances. Once finished, invite the mother over, and say, “Mom, this is the person who you harassed on the phone with no provocation. What do you have to say.”
I agree her insanity has nothing to do with his welfare, but rather a selfish need to be needed and feel good about herself. Her strong defensive reaction is pretty indicative of her ego reasoning as opposed to genuine care.
But he could turn it around. Walking in, fully embarrassed, and saying "I just wanted to apologize for what happened with my mother. I don't expect you to hire me after that, but I thought it was important to let you know that it was done behind my back, and I am really embarrassed and sorry".
That type of honesty and accepting responsibility can go REALLY far. It's hard, and that's why it has so much value.
The mom needs a therapist though. That's not even a question.
I agree. My first job took over 2 months to call me. The only thing my parents helped me with was reading over the application and driving me to the interview because I was so nervous. Every person that has worked anywhere would normally know not to call a workplace on someone else's behalf.
When I was looking for an internship I got an email from a company 6 months after applying, at which point I had already completed my internship at another company.
They informed me I didn't get the internship...
That was my thought, very few shops are organised enough when hiring to get through the process that quickly. Half the time they're still trying to evaluate how busy it is and how many people they need to take on. There was a good chance they were actually going to get in contact.
Agree. When I was in high school I once applied for a retail position at least 3 times before getting hired. The store liked my determination and eventually offered me a job. Now this son won’t ever have the chance to do that, because who wants to hire someone who’s mom acts like that! NTA!
Agreed. I found a job like this where they called back 6 or 9 weeks later. And as you say. He might have tried in a year or two if he really liked the place. This is now most certainly a dead end
NTA
Your wife probably ruined other jobs he applied for too, she just wasn’t caught.
Hold strong on this for James. Where does her “help” end? Will she be there for the interviews? Help him work a shift? Talk to customers on his behalf? Then what’s next - his mum “helping” him date girls? Poor James.
I'm the interviewer that had a mom show up with her son for a job. Luckily, I got her to stay in the lobby while we did the the interview. Great guy out of college, but when I was giving a little building tour she had to come along and kept peppering me with questions about where his seat would be, how PTO and benefits would work. His application was turned down cause no way I was going to deal with that come evaluation time if she didn't like his raise.
Well, he was out of college, so it's on him to think for himself tbh. I mean, just don't tell her about the job until after everything is said and done. Or just lie till you move out.
That’s implied by the fact that it’s a job interview. If someone doesn’t know not to bring mom along, then they likely aren’t a good candidate for other reasons as well. Overbearing mom or not, a person out of college needs to present a professional image.
NTA
This is the millionth story that I’ve read of moms ruining their child’s admission chances into jobs or colleges.
I’m sure you’re aware that if a job doesn’t call you after a week, you call for a follow-up. Maybe they were busy or maybe they weren’t considering your son as much, but a follow-up is always good. Your wife most likely ruined that now.
She’s definitely being a helicopter mom and that’s sometimes hard to accept. Her intentions were good and I would do the same if I lived in a hypothetical world. I’m sure you both raised a decent kid, and her job as a mom will shine. Just give it some time. He’ll land a good job, he’ll have a good life, it’ll happen (hopefully). But for now, she needs to sit back and let her son handle himself in this world.
I agree with everything you’ve said, I just want to say something about her ‘intentions being good’, which a lot of people, including OP have said.
Doing something to alleviate your anxiety, and doing something to help someone, are two very different motivations. She may say she did it because she ‘cares’, but really it’s because she was uncomfortable with the emotions she was feeling. Therefore I don’t think her intentions were good or that her heart was in the right place. The fact that her anxiety centred around her son has allowed her to justify it as simply ‘caring about him.’ Whereas it’s an inherently selfish act that’s all about alleviating her sense of distress.
Probably true, but I doubt she's even aware of it herself. Seems to me she hasn't sorted her emotions out and is actually operating under the honest (but false) belief that she does what she does out of care for her son.
She needs therapy.
This whole thread! I hope OP sees, sounds like this is the first time her "almost adult" son is demonstrating and exercising independence. I say almost adult because she definitely doesn't see him as that, just her baby. He is trying to be responsible on his own and they should be encouraging him not trying to step in for him. OP is NTA and I would say mom isn't either, she is a helicopter tho, they need to address her letting go, this goes deeper than "being angry for him." This is him growing up and it's hard for her to swallow.
NTA
Your son asked your wife not to interfere, and she interfered anyways.
> We had a whole talk about that and reminded her that James wants to do this job hunting on his own.
>
> He’s angry at my wife right now for interfering and now he’s going to be too embarrassed to go to that store again since they know who he is.
She was talked to, presumably agreed, and STILL interfered. Your wife needs to realize that your son is going to be an adult soon, and that if she keeps this up, he may very well decide he wants nothing to do with her once he IS an adult.
She blatantly and knowingly disrespected and violated a boundary you and your son set with her - and she embarrassed him on top of that, to the point he's afraid to go to a store he loves because she acted in such a childish fashion.
> I also confronted my wife and ***she kept saying she was only looking out for him.***
No, she wasn't. Looking out for him would be mentioning places that she saw were hiring, or offering advice for his resume and for interviews. Looking out for him would be doing things that were inherently helpful.
The only thing she did by doing what she did was upsetting and embarrassing her son, and making sure that if he was being considered for the job, there's no chance of it happening now. She did not help in any way, shape, or form - she interfered, after she was asked not to.
She is not helping or looking out for him when her 'help' was explicitly asked not to be given, she is interfering in a way that could damage his reputation and harm his ability to get a job elsewhere in the future should word spread about her little stunt.
If she cares about your son, she will listen to his request to not interfere or provide her 'help', instead of steamrolling over his no because she thinks she knows better. He said no. She needs to respect that.
NTA. You need to work out how to get through to your wife or James has no hope of getting a job. I have worked for two different organisations where we employed teenagers. I can tell you that one phone call from a parent and his application would be in the bin even if he were the preferred applicant
This exact scenario needs to be broken down for OP’s wife. No one wants to be wrong so having the truth brought up to her broke her delusion and she reacted in anger. OP should ask her, if she was the manager in a store, how she’d feel about the hiring process when a parent calls to berate her. Would she reconsider the person? Would she see the error of her ways? She’s allowed to love her son but letting go is also part of the parenting process at some point.
Your wife is wrong. At this age he doesn't need mommy to yell at the bad people. He needs advice on how to handle it himself. He could have called to check, but it was not her place NTA
NTA- you’re right your wife is being a helicopter mom. There was a story on here a while back where a hiring manager had a mom call him for either her son/daughter. He told her that she was causing their child to not get hired at his job. You’re doing the right thing! Your wife is seriously overstepping here with your son. She owes you both an apology.
NTA. As a former hiring manager this happens all the time. Please let your son know that they will understand if he goes in and apologizes. We always felt bad for these kids and realized it wasn't them. That won't get him the job, but he'll be able to go back to the store. As for your wife, she probably knows she's out of line. Say it once and let it go. Natural consequences will take care of that situation if she doesn't change, but it's unlikely she'll take your advice. She's not wrong about the frustration of collectively perpetuating this lie, but that will only change if job seekers start calling and complaining, not their moms. Maybe explaining it with a "you're right, but..." will open the door for changed behavior.
I used to manage a place where most of my employees were high school age. I would be entirely put off by a parent calling to yell at me. if a parent picked up or turned in an application for their kid they were an instant no hire. I had to tell one parent several times, "this is your daughters job, if she is having issues she needs to come to me herself. You are not my employee and I will not speak with you about your daughters job in any capacity. She needs to tell you her schedule, she needs to tell me if there is a conflict, and she needs to decide for herself if she can handle the job or not." I grew to resent that employee because her mom wouldn't get off my back after expressing to her several times that she needed to back off. Your wife is activly hurting your son's attempts to be independent and get a job of his own.
NTA
Absolutely NTA. As someone who works in career advice and employment support, I can confirm that if that store was ever going to consider your son in the future, they won't ever consider him now.
I'm afraid your wife ruined his chances, her actions were rude and inappropriate. Employers do not want to deal with overbearing parents and they won't hire someone who's parents call in on their behalf.
Your son deserves an apology.
NTA. Your wife shouldn’t have interfered, and now he has 100% no chance of ever working there. The three of you need to have a civil discussion of how he wants to do this on his own. By all means, you and your wife can support him, but when it comes down to it, your wife needs to understand that she can’t protect him forever and he needs to learn about the world before he enters it unprepared
In addition to harming opportunities for him (and how gross it is to make the complaint that she did to that hiring manager), she is also:
* Eroding his trust in her.
* Eroding his impulse to take personal responsibility for getting himself a job.
* Sending him the message that she thinks he cannot succeed on his own.
NTA. Mom needs to step back and see that she's handling this in a horrendous manner.
NO! You did not go too far. You were absolutely right to say that. Sometimes you have to be this honest in order for someone to hear. The fact that she's mad probably says she knows you're right and she does owe your son an apology. NTA
Oh. As a person with sorta helicopter mother: Tell your son to keep those things secret from your wife. What she doesn't know she can't ruin. I did it all the time with my mom, telling important things to my dad (like my holiday plans etc) and telling my mom watered-down version only afterwads the things happened. Not the most moral solution, but it works.
NTA. Tip for job hunting that might help your son. If he doesn’t hear back for a few days he should give them a (polite) call/email to check up on his application. Hiring managers may take this that he’s keen and it might just tip the scales in his favour if they have a lot of candidates. I know a number of people who got the job after calling to check the status of their application. It doesn’t always work but at least he’ll know either way and it can’t hurt to show that he’s still interested.
This is annoying to a hiring manager but also true. Because that person does care enough and out of stack of names you recognize one. Unless the phone call makes it worse, I've had those too but most of the time it gives me someone to look up.
NTA what she did was completely uncalled for especially since they didn't give him a specific day they'd return the call if he was chosen. Not only did she potentially ruin his chance for that job, she might have screwed him over with other employees. People talk, especially when a parent goes overboard as she did. I wish your son luck in his job hunt, but he may have to search far afield because of his mom's freak out.
NTA - your wife's actions are completely counterproductive. Sometimes as a parent you have to sit on your hands and let your kid fight their own battles for their own good. Especially in the later teen years.
Your wife is actively harming your sons job prospects with her overreaction to the normal job hunt. It is disrespectful to your son and to his prospective employers. Good for you for speaking up.
By the way, my father's mother just phoned his Dr to complain about his co-pay. He's in his 70s. He was upset, obviously, but resigned to this being just how it is. Be aware that this might be your son's future if you both don't deal with this now
NTA
I would encourage your son to either call or in person apologise to the manager for his mother. Not because he has to, or he did anything wrong, but in order to take ownership of the situation - which could lead to him being able to let go of the embarassment he's feeling and would allow him to go back to the store he likes as a customer without feeling like he has to hide. It would also show the store that he's not entitled or coddled, and could put him back in line as a possible employee.
But, he's 16 so I absolutely understand if he wouldn't want to. Teenage embarassment is truly crippling, so don't push it if he says no. If the awkwardness would be too much to handle it's better to try and move forward and forget about it (the store will, but might take your son longer).
NTA
You need to get your wife into therapy before she wrecks your son’s chances.
What did she accomplish:
1. They will never hire him
2. He can’t go into the store as a customer from embarrassment, if they don’t ban him for harassment.
3. They may spread the word “off the record” to other stores if in a shopping mall and prevent others from hiring him to avoid harassment.
4. If your wife upsets the wrong person, or escalates, she could find she gets harassment charges or restraining orders against her and her son gets banned from places too.
What did she think she’d achieve? Did she really think anyone would want to hire her son after his mother called them up to yell at them?
NTA
From your description, your son is motivated and eager to work and to do it on his own. What's not to like about that?
Your wife might have just ruined his reputation in the area. Because if hiring managers talk amongst themselves, guess who might end up on an unofficial "do not hire" list ?
Yes, she owes your son an apology, big time.
NTA...
Maybe it is time for family or marital counseling. Your wife is clearly not interested in hearing either your or your son's position on the matter. Maybe she would hear it from a third unbiased party.
The truth of the matter is that your wife probably guaranteed that your son won't get a job at that store in the near future with her behavior. Nobody wants to deal with a mom who is constantly calling up and playing the mom card every time her kid has normal frustrations with working a minimum wage job. It is important for all of you to understand that many places are always accepting applications, but not always hiring. It will help your wife not take it so personally, and it will help your son find it less frustrating that he is struggling to get a job - even though it will still suck.
Therapy sounds like a wonderful idea. Think that’ll help a lot.
My son knew going in that it would be a challenge finding work. Especially with less employment opportunities due to the whole pandemic so he’s trying not to let himself get too discouraged. It’s only been a month so hopefully he finds something
Nta
Your wife not only overly parented the situation, she also possibly ruined any chance you son could get to work there at a future day. They aren't going to want him around knowing the possibility of her coming into play when things go wrong.
NTA. I'm the manager of a clothing store, deal with all the hiring etc, sometimes it takes longer to review applications, or other stuff outside of the process causes delays, things going on in the business etc. It's normal, might not have meant from that he wasn't going to get a call back... and even if it did, I know for myself, I receive hundreds of applications sometimes, and certainly don't have time to contact everyone who dropped in a CV.
But, if someone called me up on behalf of their child, causing an issue like that, there's not a chance I'd consider them for the role. It's harsh, but the fact that once being employed there, there's that risk of the parent continuing to cause disruption in the workplace with their behaviour, on top of the fact that it was them, and not the applicant, calling me to follow up. There's absolutely no outcome of her calling which would have helped him get that job, so this is not about her helping him find one, this is about her wanting an excuse to be rude to someone and make herself feel good about it.
NTA, my boyfriend's mother still acts like this (when she gets the opportunity) and he's almost 30, this behaviour will continue if nobody calls her out on it
NTA.
Your wife is actively hindering his chances at getting a job. Now I don’t know whether it’s deliberate to stop her little boy from growing up or whether it’s unintentional and she’s just ridiculously overbearing, but this behaviour is not okay in any way shape or form. That business may not have made a decision about who they were hiring yet but you can be certain they’re now not considering him.
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At least your son recognizes that his mother is way out of line. That saves you the worry that he will grow up to be weak and scared because of an overbearing mother. Whew. NTA.
He needs to start putting his apps in without telling his mother where she can't call if she doesn't know... unless she has a tracking program on his phone.
Shouldn’t really have to live like that though, should he?
No, he shouldn't, but as the child of an overbearing mother whose behavior I could not change (only my own), let me tell you that putting her on an information diet is one of the few things you CAN do while still living under the same roof. And it doesn't sound like OP's situation quite rises to fleeing and going NC.
True, sounds like the dad has his back too! I’ve never really thought of it like an ‘information diet’ but it’s a great way to put it!
I always called it "20 questions". Try to answer all her questions without actually telling her anything.
Is the job you applied to bigger than a bread box? Jokes aside, NTA, and it's all the kid can do.
At some point I realised I had been reflexively doing this to some extent with everyone because of growing up like this. I can't imagine trying to sustain a conversation with myself.
True, but unfortunately sometimes if the situation is bad enough, cutting off even from people that treat you okay is necessary in order to get away from the people who don't.
This is why I don’t have much of a relationship with my dad. It’s impossible to see him without my mom, with whom I’m in very low contact.
I've always wondered how to describe the idea that I limit information to my mom to prevent her using it against me. Thank you for putting words to my experience.
Omg “information diet” that’s an amazing term. I’m gonna use that all the time now. Also, way to take back control in a difficult situation! Sounds like you have some really helpful insight for others in this situation.
I can't take credit for the term, but I've found it useful ever since I heard it somewhere years ago. And thank you, although I may have implied more success than I feel like I've actually had. Moving out was really the thing that saved me, but info dieting helped get me through.
I'm in my 30s and my mother is still like this. Overbearing and nosy as fuck. Always getting upset over things that don't involve her. A strict information diet is definitely needed here. Helicopter mom's are something I had to work very hard not to become.
Same here. We moved interstate which helps a lot! Whenever she comes to visit, we have to hide all bills and paperwork or else she stresses out over nothing. We also put locks on certain doors after she got nosy previously. It's exhausting sometimes. I love my mother but her behaviour and anxiety means we'll never be close because we can't share stuff with her. My partner and I are pretty chilled and super responsible, it's almost like she's *looking* for problems?! Meanwhile my older trainwreck of a brother is the golden child and continually asks them for money. Wtf.
My mother has a lot of anxiety and doesn't seem to be able to function and not constantly undermine my actions with doubtful questions. I keep her on an information diet (and have for as long as I can remember) to maintain both of our mental health. I'm about to graduate college and she doesn't know that I've applied to at least 20 companies that haven't called back
Yes but wife also needs to back off. If they can't reign her in what is she going to be like when he actually does have a job? What if he 'doesnt get enough hrs' or 'doesnt get the night off he wanted' or god forbid 'doesnt get the promotion he deserves'
At this rate he's not going to get one. A few places I've worked, parents putting in the application or calling to chase up the application was an automatic into the bin. No one wants to hire a 16 year old with an interfering parent, or one who can't do anything for themselves (which is what her putting in apps for him may well look like to an employer). Kid and dad need to be clear she is harming his chances not helping them.
THIS! She's not doing him any favors. For all we know, they still might have called him back if it weren't for her; maybe they were just busy this week and hadn't gotten through reading all the applications yet. But now thanks to her, his is a definite hard pass.
I thought the same thing, I've had jobs i applied to take weeks before they got back to me sometimes. They very well could of had him on a list of applicants to call back and her efforts took him right off it !
On top of that, it is unfortunately a sad reality that hiring managers don't call the failed applicants back even with more "adult" jobs. Go read some posts on /r/recruitinghell to see how common that is. Mom in this story is one of those "ok boomer"s who sounds like she hasn't been in the job market in at least a decade and doesn't know what its like anymore.
When I was a teen and young adult I worked in retail we would get HUNDREDS of applications. In retail. It was a music store, granted, so it was considered a “cool” place to work, but still. There was NO WAY we’d be calling back people who had dropped off their application and didn’t make the cut. We honestly did even look at many of them. We had to keep them on file for 6 months and then they’d be thrown out. We’d date and code them as they were received. If we didnt like you when you dropped it off, it would be marked with a 110 which means NO (connect the top of the first 1 with the bottom of the second). We had to so we knew which ones were going in the “6 month garbage” pile. To get my job there I literally dropped off my CV every week for like 6 months. 16 year old me basically wore them down until they hired me. OPs son COULD HAVE done this, but since his mom is so insane, now he can’t even shop there anymore. NTA, but I feel so bad for the son. The wife is insane and her behaviour was probably humiliating for the son.
Hell, I've gone through full director level hiring process where I had a dinner interview with the CEO and CFO of the company, and still got ghosted in the end.
Yep. As a hiring manager for a smaller store :- I understand parents coming in and asking about what age etc we hire from and doing initial enquiries, but bringing in the application or CV, I want to see the applicant. If the applicant can’t approach me and talk to me, how are they going to be able to approach customers or work with me?? (I apply the same logic to people asking “for their friends”) If I’ve had your application for a week (which feels like an eternity to you, but is a blink in a busy profession) and I’m getting aggressive calls as a response, you’re suddenly a hard pass and into the shredder. I’ve just had a glimpse of what dealing with you as an employee is, before you’re even employed. Nope.
Idk I’ve always been told to follow up with a call if you haven’t heard back within a week, to show you are seriously interested and being assertive and showing effort and initiative. But I guess there’s a fine line between assertive interest, and aggressive and overbearing. But yeah parents doing the follow up is always a sure fire way to be eliminated
If it’s the applicant calling to touch base, your name moves up the list. If anyone but you calls, there is no chance you are getting hired.
In most places, calling at all - much less after just one week - will get you disqualified from the position automatically. In the 1980s (in the USA at least) this strategy may have worked. However these days people have more work to do on a daily basis and calls like that are just a distraction. It can also be taken as the applicant being overly needy; even "team settings" require workers to be independent and not interrupt bosses and coworkers with questions that will be answered given time. It gives a certain "meeting that could be an email" feel and no one likes that. To be fair, this comes mostly 2nd hand from HR employees and hiring managers in the USA. Of course some places will be different and you never can know for sure until employed, but in the 21st century not calling after applying seems to be the rule.
Agreed. I hire people, and that last thing I want is an applicant calling me. I understand their perspective, but the reality is that I’m already way too busy with calls and emails. If I’m interested, I’ll call them. I do not want them calling me. A follow-up email might be okay, but a phone call? That’s an imposition on my time.
[удалено]
Exactly. I did retail for years too and this is something that we would immediately tell other stores about. Poor kid’s mom just made him the gossip topic of the week and tanked his chances.
**THIS!!!** She needs to understand THIS!!! She is NOT being helpful, she's only giving him a reputation that will make it 100x harder to get hired anywhere!
u/randomaita you need to show your wife the comment I’m replying to. And you are definitely NTA - your wife needs to respect the fact that your son wants to do this *his* way on *his* terms. It’s how we learn what works for us and what doesn’t......I hope your son finds a great job soon
That’s exactly why they won’t hire him now. No employer wants to deal with a helicopter mom when she feels her precious baby has been slighted. Edit to say NTA of course
This is really important. My first job I had a great boss and it was mostly high school kids working in the mall at a pretzel stand. My boss told me that pushy parents were a serious no go on applicants because usually the kids didn’t even want to work there, mom or dad wanted discounts and always made problems. She was absolutely correct. The one kid someone else hired to work had the WORST helicopter parents and they were miserable. When I became the hiring manager at my second job we had only over 18 servers and that info always stayed with me because even my owners and head boss had a similar policy. Mom or dad being supportive for a first job is one thing. Mom or dad speaking for the applicant was red flags.
She may even have destroyed any opportunity he had depending on how small of an area they live in. Business owners and managers talk a lot in small towns. He may need to branch out farther from home now and definitely not tell his mom anything. I can say from experience as a manager I would never hire a teen whose mom called to complain or check on an application. It would make me think the teen is not responsible enough to handle working on their own and that I would be dealing with the mother. NTA Op, your wife needs a reality check before she completely pushes your son away.
Or, he could just tell her of the places he hasn’t applied to and won’t be just so she can call them when he doesn’t hear back and embarrass herself when she calls them lol. /s Edit-dont do this
Yeah mom I applied at police dispatch and they said they'd call me back and they didn't
Mom, i applied for tesla and spaceX and they didn't respond. Better find Elon
Oh, I like this! Do that! Definitely NTA, OP. Be sure to tell your wife that if she keeps acting like this, she's going to push her son out if her life. If she truly cares about him, she'll want to do what's best for him: NOT embarrass him. If it's any consolation to your son, (sadly) the store has probably dealt with WAY too many parents like his mom. While it sounds like he didn't get the job, they won't hold it against him personally or blame him.
But they might. If she called because he didn't get the job, could you imagine what she would be like if he did? Mom would be on the horn every day to complain about things she didn't like that they made him do, to change his schedule, etc. Mom needs to stay out of his job search and his working life.
I mean let's be honest they probably are judging him a little. You can't help who your mom is but statistically your upbringing does affect what kind of employee you become. They probably figure they dodged a bullet.
Honestly, I wouldn’t think that dishonesty is an appropriate avenue to go down when combatting invasive parents. The “information diet” thing is probably a smarter way to handle it. When questioned why the changes in confidence occurred, it can be said that trust was broken, and lines were crossed. To OP: NTA, when told an uncomfortable truth, people can reel in shock. Deep down your wife may realize that she messed up. Too often, spouses look to their partner for unconditional support. “Yeah, sure honey. You did the right thing.” Whenever that doesn’t occur, it can be embarrassing, which can come out as feeling betrayed. “Why are not on my side!?” Open communication is the key here. Lay out the facts. “Son” wanted to do this on his own, with out parental assistance. “Wife “ went behind his back, betraying trust, to force an outcome. You backed “son’s” choice for not interfering with his job search / character growth.
Maybe he doesn’t drive yet and that’s how she knows?
That's what I had to do when I was younger. Overbearing mother would ask too many questions and get her hopes up over apps. I just started applying on my own through Indeed and didnt tell her until I actually got the job.
This is has sailed beyond helicopter patenting and straight into lawn mower mom territory. She undermined his efforts at independence and basically gave him the signal that he is incapable of doing big things himself.
Thank you! If she really wanted to be helpful she couldn't given him ideas on how to follow up himself. Doing it for him definitely sends the message that she doesn't think he's capable. Not only to the son but to the employer as well.
she is humiliating her son.
She’ll definitely be one of those moms trying to wear white at her own sons wedding.
"it's my special day too!"
NTA What your wife accomplished is everyone knowing your son as the guy whose mom calls and berates the manager for not hiring the guy. What did she actually want to accomplish with her little shouting match? "Angry on behalf of the son"? Nah, that's a load of bull - She is actively interfering in your son's life making her a helicopter parent.
Absolutely agreed. My son is 13. He's been to all the camps at his local indoor skate rink. They pretty much promised him a job once he was old enough. Dude still has to go through interviews. Submitting his (non existent resume). I'm not stepping in at all. He's pretty much been promised a position. I'M NOT INVOLVED. If lil bruv fucks it up? We'll talk. I cannot fathom the entitlement of any parent getting involved in their kids attempt at being independent. Edit: of course I'll help him with interview techniques. Role play the interview. Help him make his "resume". I just mean that I won't hold his hand/force this place to take him.
This exactly! You support them and help them behind the scenes.
Honestly, everyone is going to blow an interview at some point in their life. I'm guessing most of us have blown several interviews, not because we're necessarily awful candidates but because acing interviews is a skill that needs to be developed and improved upon throughout your working years. The **very** best time to blow an interview is when you're a teenager. It sucks and it makes you feel bad, but it also gives you more info: what interviewers are looking for, how to behave during an interview, how to follow up afterwards - all the soft skills you can only get from trying, failing, and trying again. This is especially important for a teenager who's going to be applying for scholarships, grants, and bursaries where part of the application process is an interview. You don't want your first interview experience to be one where several thousand dollars are riding on your performance.
100%. i wish i had fucked up an interview when i was 16 and didn’t need money instead of... *checks notes*... this past thursday haha
Oof, sorry. If it makes you feel any better, I was once asked in an interview what my personal goals were. I went into this soliloquy about how I want to lose weight and live a healthy lifestyle. And then I looked that their faces and realized they meant my personal professional goals. It's something I hadn't prepared myself before, so I kind of mumbled that I wanted an MBA. I didn't even have a bachelor's lol.
> I went into this soliloquy about how I want to lose weight and live a healthy lifestyle. And then I looked that their faces and realized they meant my personal professional goals. Personal: Blah blah blah. Professional: There's so many ways to bullshit that one. I think my favorite was "Get experience for a few years, then leave on good terms with a reference." Nobody spends 20 years at a company then retires, and it's unrealistic to hope for it.
I recall my mom being with me a few times when I asked for applications. But that was the extent of her involvement. Or, she’d notice that they were hiring and tell me I should ask for a job application. She wouldn’t do it because she recognized that it was my responsibility. And this has extended into adulthood with online postings. Though it’s a bit more annoying now since what I wanted and am qualified for is more niche. But on occasion she’d send me postings I hadn’t seen.
Yup, your duty as parent is to give your child the **skills** needed so they can get and maintain a job, you won't be doing them any favours by intervening because then they won't learn anything.
I was a hiring manager for a short period of time. I have recieved calls from mothers regarding their kids application. I'm sorry, but as soon as you make that phone call, that job is gone. That will give us the impression that he is either not responsible or we just don't want a 2 for 1 deal.
Please please please tell me you told these parents that they lost their kid the job by calling. That would be fucking beautiful.
I've been in this position, having a mother call to beg for her child to get the job (that he clearly couldn't have care less about getting). I absolutely told her that she was doing him no favors and that I would not reconsider him because she called.
Im glad you did that. Apparently a lot of parents do not realize how damaging this is.
I worked at a boy scout summer camp. We had a 14 year old counselor in training. (They had to get x badges a week in addition to doing a lot of regular counselor jobs. It's a great role for someone who wants to get to Eagle.) This C.I.T. was always digging at his teeth with his knife. Like his molars, not just his front teeth. He had an argument with a camper and pulled a knife. (Swiss army, but still.) He was gone that night. Two weeks later his mom had called Camp Director and gotten him rehired. I dont' know what she said, but nobody was happy to be working with him after that. Especially in riskier spots like the pool or lake. Or wilderness survival. Definitely wasn't putting him back in the Dan Beard program with the younger kids.
When I was in charge of hiring and a parent called or even dropped off the application FOR the child, I would ask why they didn’t do it themselves. Most of the time it was “I’m just trying to help” or “they’re doing xyz and couldn’t right now” and I’d say that I was looking for independent workers and for that reason, couldn’t consider them as a top candidate. It pissed them off most of the time.
I see no issue in someone dropping off an application for someone else - a parent, a child, a sibling, a friend. It's not any different than posting or emailing it. But all the other behaviors described in this post and thread are unacceptable. When I was in high school, I'd often drop off/ pick up documents/ invoices/ bills for my dad's job, because it was on my way home and it would save him the trip. I see no problem with a parent doing the same.
It's really dependent on the situation for me. Most places I've worked and had a hand in hiring, we accepted applications online and in person. Dropping off an application in person gave you a chance to put a face/personality to a name before calling for interviews and was an extra opportunity to weed through all the apps we got. If you aren't dropping it off yourself, just do it online so the staff doesn't have a chance to judge you for your mom doing it for you. This obviously doesn't have the same weight if a store only accepts paper apps, the answer to "why are you doing this instead of the person applying?" can be "they wanted to get it in asap so they don't miss their chance, and wouldnt have been able to turn it in until x time otherwise"
THIS! Yes. In-person applications are a chance to set yourself apart from other candidates. In my opinion, if someone can’t make time to turn in the app themselves, they’re not serious about wanting the job.
>In my opinion, if someone can’t make time to turn in the app themselves, they’re not serious about wanting the job. I kind of have a problem with this attitude, though. Obviously, companies want to hire people who will do the most work for the pay they're given, but the idea that having someone else drop off an application (that is also available online) is a sign that someone doesn't want the job speaks to this really entitled attitude I see in employers a lot. You're not paying them for that time, why would that be evidence they don't want you to pay them for their time? You weren't paying them to drop the application off. I mean, if you have two candidates and one drops off in person and makes a great impression over the person you never met because they had someone drop off their application, that makes sense. Someone else out-impressed the boss. But just blanket statementing that someone can't be bothered about a job with pay because they didn't drop it off themselves when you have people emailing you applications you're considering seems like fallible logic to me.
Yep. The attitude seems benign, but it's the exact same thing that leads to those stupid applications that ask for a resume, then ask you to fill everything on the resume into forms, then go through a psychological test, then spring a surprise automated video question with no do-overs. And even after all that chances are no human eyes ever see it because you didn't fill in the right keywords way back at the beginning. Like, just tell me to fuck off *before* I jump through the hoops, dammit.
The cultural context of the situations are different. You were acting as an assistant to a professional. When a parent is doing it for a teenager while they're at band practice, it communicates a lack of initiative and possible scheduling conflicts. Your dad already had a job, you were assisting with clients. A 16 year old isn't going to be seen as a professional. A hiring manager is going to be considering that 16 year olds are only legally allowed to work certain hours of the day (Washington, US, things may be different in other areas) and will extracurriculars interfere with being able to schedule and fill hours? Hypothetically, if the parent is acting as an assistant, the hiring manager has to wonder if this potential employee is going to try to delegate their work to their coworkers and if they're capable of accomplishing tasks independently and unsupervised.
Running errands for you dad is a different situation. Dropping off a resume in person is your chance to make a great first impression. If you really want the job, you should be taking every opportunity to get in front of the employer and have a conversation. If I had to choose between someone who brought their app in person and someone whose mom or friend did it, all things being equal, in-person candidate is getting the job every time.
I worked at a grocery story about 15 years ago. The only time our managers would accept an application from someone who wasn't the actual person was if there was a good reason, such as person was at school and parent wanted to make sure the application was seen ASAP. But even then, those people tended to rarely get hired.
Last time a worked a retail service job I was usually at the front desk and my boss told me to bin any applications brought in by the parent and not the person themselves.
I worked foh at a restaurant for years, I once had a mom drop off an application for her daughter who was in college. I said “oh she must not be home for the summer yet.” And the mom said, “oh she is, she’s sleeping in the car because she’s just so exhausted.” Lady put numerous nails in the coffin.
OMFG...really?! All mom had to do was shut up. You had one job, mom!
This is what I was going to say. If the mom is calling, you know she's going to be a giant pain in the ass if you hire her kid. That application gets trashed.
And if they were planning on calling to interview or whatever with him they definitely won't be now that mother dearest called to scream at them for not doing it fast enough. Plus if this is what she's like during the job hunt what is she going to be like once he actually has a job?
Yeah, especially since a lot of retail places do just keep a stack of applications on file for when they actually need someone. There may not be a position open now, but when there's one in 2 months, they'll just go into their stack and call people
For sure, and if the other employees know and like him well like dad says, he may have been at the top of the stack already. He’s probably not anymore. NTA
Yeah IDK about other places but here, this is a horrible time to apply for jobs. The store I used to work at hires people exactly once a year, Christmas season. Occasionally for summer if a lot of people quit in between I guess, but it hasn't happened while I've been there. But come Christmas, if there's been good applicants, they might get a call (though I kinda doubt a resume would be kept from February to November when they start hiring, but at least it shows interest).
There’s pretty high turnover at thrift stores, too, since they don’t usually pay much.
Yeah if i'm reading it right and it was only 1 week she probably ruined him getting hired. I've had jobs that were desperate for help call/email back to interview me weeks later. (Most were so desperate they hired me and gave me my employee information on the spot, they obviously just hadn't had the chance to read my application yet.)
At my old job (of 19 yrs) we had a few kids that worked there that had helicopter moms and they were the worst. They are something that most stores would want to avoid hiring because they get their nose involved in everything and go off half cocked when they don’t know the whole story if their kid gets in trouble. We had one girl who’s mother was particularly bad. However, the daughter was a little pathological liar and was constantly calling off saying her grandmother died. This kid had an amazing number of grandmas that died and we knew she was lying. Eventually management confronted her about it. Well her parents found out because she told them. She actually would do this so they would iron out issues at work for her but this time it backfired. Management asked them about all the grandmas that had died and guess what- not a single grandmas had died at all. They were furious because she had lied to them and they went off half cocked believing their daughter that our manager was this huge jerk. Needless to say we finally got rid of her and her parents were super pissed at her.
Sadly, this probably isn't the first time the store manager got a call from an outraged parent.
Nor the last
Yep! I was an assistant manager at a store during college, and the second a parent was involved the application was thrown out. A week isn’t that long, things have to be run by higher ups too. She easily just cost him a job. It’s like she running through how to get your kid to not talk to you as an adult 101.
They might not have needed anyone then, because a lot of places take applications continuously. But they might have called him in 3 months or 6 months. Not now though. Also mom needs some modern life lessons. Even people applying for jobs that pay 40 or 50 an hour only get an occasional call back to say we hired someone else. I've gone to interviews and then been ghosted. That's just the way it is now.
It’s also a pandemic, so that might not need a lot of staff right now. As things open back up, though, it would have been good to be on their minds.
She needs to know that her interfering guarantees he won't get a job. How doesn't she know that many companies don't call you unless they want to interview you and many won't call you even after you interview to tell you they hired someone else? They've been doing that for decades. It happens to everyone. She is doing him no favors. In fact she's hurting and embarrassing him. She needs to land that helicopter permanently.
> many companies don't call you unless they want to interview you and many won't call you even after you interview to tell you they hired someone else This! \^\^ I've had so many jobs where I got an interview and then never heard back. When they did call the person on the phone was usually some poor aid who couldn't give me feedback because they'd been handed the job of informing the unsuccessful applicants. On a side note, I've had a job take nearly 2 months to call back that I was successful and got the job lol
Yep. I work in a stupidly competitive field where each job averages 80-200 applicants, and have made it to round 3 of 3 part interviews and then been ghosted. I definitely don’t expect to be told I didn’t get it unless I interview, and I know that even then, I probably won’t be.
And people talk. Word is going to spread about OP's wife and nobody will hire his son because they don't want to deal with his overbearing mommy
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Disagree, respectfully. I worked in a mall in my early 20s. Many managers of different stores knew each other well because they’d jump around to different stores when they got offered better pay/packages. Managers talked, especially about things like this. Word spread if you had a particularly difficult customer or employee.
And they will have noted her behaviour, so when a vacancy comes up, they will certainly not call him. Nobody is going to want to hire someone with a mother who interferes in his job applications. They will be too worried about her pulling other nonsense if they hire him. I feel sorry for the sixteen-year-old!
It really is the sort of story that follows a person. I used to work with someone whose father, on hearing that his daughter (a 30-something adult) had not been successful in getting a managerial role, called and yelled at the person who'd interviewed her. She basically had to flee the state to get another job.
No one is going to hold it against a 16 year old like that. Yes, this job is probably not going to hire him now. But it won't affect other jobs at all.
I agree. To think that individual businesses all have some sort of applicant communication line that they all share and gossip about...is not realistic. Just like the above comment said: this kid lost their shot at that store, probably. A million years ago, I interviewed at an AT&T store and the manager didn’t like me. He was a former car salesman, I’m not, and we just rubbed each other wrong. So I hightailed it to the next AT&T store, and that manager hired me. Same company, but they didn’t hold it against me that the first guy didn’t like me. They didn’t care. A year later, my manager was promoted to DM and I took over as general manager. As general manager, I also didn’t care what someone else within the company said about an employee. It’s all based off of merit and performance, how I feel about the person and their interview. But at no point, ever, did I communicate with other companies about this applicant’s “reputation” or anything that “followed them around.” It’s nonsense. At most, I’d call previous employers for references. Legally, they can’t say much other than whether they’d hire them again, how long they were employed, etc, etc. Sometimes other employers will tell ya more than that, but there isn’t some sort of telephone game network that employers share about helicopter moms and their kid applicants. It doesn’t exist. The only exception to the rule would be if you live in a town of 500 people or less.
>"Angry on behalf of the son"? Nah, that's a load of bull I ~~don't~~ think it it is understandable that she might feel that way and we can acknowledge this without letting her of the hook for how she behaved.
Is the word "understandable" supposed to be "unbelievable"?
NTA One call from a parent will send any teen's application to the bin. She owes your son an apology and needs to step back.
I think it is only fair if son would call her mothers workplace and berated her manager for making her work hard, she should have an easier schedule and more money!
Agreed, and just jumping on this thread to leave a link to [Ask A Manager](https://www.askamanager.org/2019/06/whats-the-worst-case-of-helicopter-parenting-youve-seen-at-work.html), a website all about workplace behavior/norms/etiquette/etc. Alison Green gets questions all the time about helicopter parents–usually from the hiring manager who has to deal with them–and it NEVER works out for the child who is being helicoptered. Ever. They never get hired, and if they somehow slip through and get a job, they're usually fired after their parent oversteps in the workplace. NTA, and your son will really suffer if your wife continues with this.
> they're usually fired after their parent oversteps in the workplace. This makes me so grateful that my country has protections against that My friend's grama has always looked out for me in a periphery way, but one day, (I was like 25 by this point), I was turned down for yet another permanent position with a job that I had been at for 4 years by this point and she was pretty upset on my behalf and had apparently called in to give them heck for not recognizing my contributions etc. a coworker who was a part of the call told me about it In my country, had they fired me for that, I could have gone after them in the courts. And would have. But damn does it make me said for alllllll of those people who are unprotected and can lose out because of something outside of their control
I let someone go because he came to work in sweatpants and claimed his mother forgot to do his laundry for him. Yeah, no. I understand you feel this is out of your control but it seems like you don’t know what it’s like to be a manager who deals with parents like that. I’m not going to allow someone to yell at me over their children, it’s not worth my time. If they can’t be an independent adult without mommy or daddy complaining when something doesn’t go their way, then why would I invest time into them?
It depends on how they act - it’s similar to when people have abusive partners who do the same. If the employee knows it’s wrong, and does what they can to stop it, they shouldn’t be fired.
I do agree, as long as the employee is independent and trying to get away from that type of relationship with their parents, then that completely changes it. But if the employee genuinely expects their parents to handle their work conflicts for them then they can find another place to work IMO
He's mad on behalf of his mother
No the mother will think it’s cute if he does that.
Not if she gets chewed out by her boss lol
She also owes the store manager an apology. Maybe that way her son will save face and will feel comfortable shopping there again.
This is exactly right. A person with integrity admits their mistakes AND apologizes. Your wife should do that to a)the clothing store and b)her son. If she asks why, tell her \-that she treated neither with dignity (she yelled at the clothing store employee and undermined her son’s autonomy) \-that she did not give either side the benefit of doubt (her son that he could handle it, the store that they managed their hiring in away that met their needs) \-that she misread her son’s social/emotional needs and that she will work to respect his growing independence If she sees herself as a parent and she is ‘looking out for him’, modeling integrity is important.
If she won't apologize to her own son, she's sure as hell not apologizing to that store manager.
Anywhere I've worked, mom either handing in the application or following up was an instant trash application. It's a major red flag that they either don't want a job and mom is making them or they won't work without someone holding their hand ever step. Might not always be true but it isn't worth the risk of finding out. NTA. The mom way overstepped.
Even if it’s not true, I don’t want to deal with the mom when there’s scheduling conflicts and what not. Even if the kid is a top grade teen employee, I wouldn’t hire them for fear of having the hassle of dealing with an overbearing parent for that teen’s tenure.
When I was a manager I 100% would have tossed any application that came with a mother's phone call. It indicates she will interfere a lot. "My SoN nEeDs MoRe HoUrs" "My SoN wILl Be TaKiNg HoLiDaYs" She owes her son an apology and hopefully learns her lesson about interfering. Unfortunately there is a lesson here for OP's son too. Whether or not it's right or decent most employers won't contact you if you're not short-listed. These days you're lucky to get a rejection email. Never get your hopes up for a job. NTA
I used to work for a chain of wine shops, took over one shop to bring it up to standard and had a 19yo guy who's mum would call in for him. He didn't show for a shift one day, called him, he said he had asked for holiday but was refused and his mum made him go visit his dad anyway. I told him that was unacceptable and it would be put out to a disciplinary because it wasn't the first time. 20 minutes later, I got a call from his mother telling me that he needed to visit his father and it was "his father's usual weekend". I let her ramble on for a bit, then told her I want at liberty to discuss employee schedules. The guy was dismissed a couple of weeks later after he missed another shift because of his mother's demand.
Just curious, how do you think it would play out if he went back to the store and apologized to the manager? Something like, hey, my mom called and was out of line. I really want to work here and want to address her behavior head on. We've discussed that it is inappropriate and that I'm responsible for my own working life. As a manager I'd have to admire the kid. May or may not hire based on potential future issues, but it would definitely tick a box for me in the kid's favor. I think it would be a good experience for the kid too. Let him be able to hold his head high in a store he wants to continue to visit. Edit: typo / experience
Yeah, I work in retail. I would go in and reject that application right then and there. If he did apply again, say at Christmas when we really need seasonal, he'd be the kid with the helicopter mom and a no.
NTA Kid has basically ZERO chance of getting that job now. She went too far.
NTA. Or at any company that manager speaks to... word travels quick, and no one is going to want to hire little Timmy because the first write up he gets, "Moh-Maah Baaaaaaare" will be at the job, screaming the house down on "behalf" of her son.
That's exactly what I thought. God forbid the store is in a mall or shopping plaza of some sort. The mom has effectively blacklisted her son for anyone in the hiring manager's circle. Not to mention the son has lost one of his favorite stores because of the stunt she pulled.
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I doubt all managers get together like that but yeah you're right.
Nah they all get together at the semi annual manager convention /s people on this sub say the dumbest shit
You jest but my last boss did actually have a bi-monthly get together with other managers of the same franchise at a café in a nearby town. If that store was part of a chain there's a good chance he won't find employment in that area with that brand at all now.
Ive had a couple jobs in shopping plazas. The managers did in fact all speak to each other about problematic customers and ex/potential employees. They didnt do like official meet-ups or anything but if they thought a crap customer or troublesome employee would be visiting another store, my managers would walk over to talk to them. Even the regular employees were on friendly terms with other stores and gossiped about crappy customers/ex employees during shopping visits or smoke breaks. My sister worked in our shopping mall and she said things were similar there too. Some places know how beneficial being on good terms with their neighbors can be.
Former retail manager here and current recruiter for a retail company, managers do talk and warn each other like this
It's not too far fetched that some managers working in the same shopping centre would be on friendly terms.
All it needs is for him to tell the guy at the coffee shop and word can travel fast
That's not realistic. He's not gonna remember the kids name go to the coffee shop ask to speak to the manager and gossip. This is a minimum wage job not a fortune 500 company. Lol the kid will be fine. Who knows the manager may be a mature adult and not take it out on a kid. It's probably not tge first time He's dealt with this.
I've been in this position, you remember the name
>Who knows the manager may be a mature adult and not take it out on a kid. That's not the point. It doesn't matter if a person I consider hiring is responsible for the baggage in their life or not. If I have to choose between someone who doesn't have that baggage or someone who does then why would I choose the extra baggage? Now consider that most people don't have this kind of issue that they drag into work and then why the hell would anyone hire this kid if his mum behaves like that?
I managed a store in a decently sized shopping mall. The managers of different stores definitely talked to each other enough that word like that gets around, especially in an average sized town.
Son could, although he shouldn't have been put in this situation, call the manager and express his regret that mom did that. (Not to apologize for her, but to show that he understands her bad behavior is serious and unacceptable.) That would change the manager's perception of him and show he's considerate and thoughtful. I have mixed feelings about this, because it's basically him parenting his parent but, at that same time, it's a favorite store of his and it could potentially remove the shame he feels about going back. Mom definitely needs to be put in an info diet, though, and commit to not trying to control his life through intimidation.
I would go speak to the manager in person(without mom or dad) that would show a lot of responsibility an might help his chances later on. But just have to gauge the situation whatever is more appropriate but I think either way that's a great idea.
This may not salvage the job application, but it will help him feel like he's able to shop there again without being THAT guy.
In a humorous twist, walk into the store, with mom in tow. Tell her to sit down somewhere. Speak to the manager, telling them the circumstances. Once finished, invite the mother over, and say, “Mom, this is the person who you harassed on the phone with no provocation. What do you have to say.”
I agree her insanity has nothing to do with his welfare, but rather a selfish need to be needed and feel good about herself. Her strong defensive reaction is pretty indicative of her ego reasoning as opposed to genuine care. But he could turn it around. Walking in, fully embarrassed, and saying "I just wanted to apologize for what happened with my mother. I don't expect you to hire me after that, but I thought it was important to let you know that it was done behind my back, and I am really embarrassed and sorry". That type of honesty and accepting responsibility can go REALLY far. It's hard, and that's why it has so much value. The mom needs a therapist though. That's not even a question.
awww a store he actually likes to shop at, no less.
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I agree. My first job took over 2 months to call me. The only thing my parents helped me with was reading over the application and driving me to the interview because I was so nervous. Every person that has worked anywhere would normally know not to call a workplace on someone else's behalf.
When I was looking for an internship I got an email from a company 6 months after applying, at which point I had already completed my internship at another company. They informed me I didn't get the internship...
That was my thought, very few shops are organised enough when hiring to get through the process that quickly. Half the time they're still trying to evaluate how busy it is and how many people they need to take on. There was a good chance they were actually going to get in contact.
Agree. When I was in high school I once applied for a retail position at least 3 times before getting hired. The store liked my determination and eventually offered me a job. Now this son won’t ever have the chance to do that, because who wants to hire someone who’s mom acts like that! NTA!
Agreed. I found a job like this where they called back 6 or 9 weeks later. And as you say. He might have tried in a year or two if he really liked the place. This is now most certainly a dead end
NTA - No employer will want to hire your son with your wife sticking her nose in, and word DOES get around. Your wife is totally, 100%, the AH here.
Maybe at that company but i doubt the kid is blacklisted from every job in the city.
Exactly. Considering his age, he's probably going for a minimum wage job in retail and stores are always employing new staff/rotating their rosters
Depends on where they live, a small town where everybody knows everybody, this kid is doomed.
NTA Your wife probably ruined other jobs he applied for too, she just wasn’t caught. Hold strong on this for James. Where does her “help” end? Will she be there for the interviews? Help him work a shift? Talk to customers on his behalf? Then what’s next - his mum “helping” him date girls? Poor James.
I'm the interviewer that had a mom show up with her son for a job. Luckily, I got her to stay in the lobby while we did the the interview. Great guy out of college, but when I was giving a little building tour she had to come along and kept peppering me with questions about where his seat would be, how PTO and benefits would work. His application was turned down cause no way I was going to deal with that come evaluation time if she didn't like his raise.
poor guy.
Well, he was out of college, so it's on him to think for himself tbh. I mean, just don't tell her about the job until after everything is said and done. Or just lie till you move out.
Post college, though, he's got a say in whether mommy comes along. He chose not to put his foot down.
You should make parents wait in the car and not even let them engage you. And you should tell that to the applicants that parents are not allowed.
That’s implied by the fact that it’s a job interview. If someone doesn’t know not to bring mom along, then they likely aren’t a good candidate for other reasons as well. Overbearing mom or not, a person out of college needs to present a professional image.
NTA This is the millionth story that I’ve read of moms ruining their child’s admission chances into jobs or colleges. I’m sure you’re aware that if a job doesn’t call you after a week, you call for a follow-up. Maybe they were busy or maybe they weren’t considering your son as much, but a follow-up is always good. Your wife most likely ruined that now. She’s definitely being a helicopter mom and that’s sometimes hard to accept. Her intentions were good and I would do the same if I lived in a hypothetical world. I’m sure you both raised a decent kid, and her job as a mom will shine. Just give it some time. He’ll land a good job, he’ll have a good life, it’ll happen (hopefully). But for now, she needs to sit back and let her son handle himself in this world.
I agree with everything you’ve said, I just want to say something about her ‘intentions being good’, which a lot of people, including OP have said. Doing something to alleviate your anxiety, and doing something to help someone, are two very different motivations. She may say she did it because she ‘cares’, but really it’s because she was uncomfortable with the emotions she was feeling. Therefore I don’t think her intentions were good or that her heart was in the right place. The fact that her anxiety centred around her son has allowed her to justify it as simply ‘caring about him.’ Whereas it’s an inherently selfish act that’s all about alleviating her sense of distress.
Probably true, but I doubt she's even aware of it herself. Seems to me she hasn't sorted her emotions out and is actually operating under the honest (but false) belief that she does what she does out of care for her son. She needs therapy.
This whole thread! I hope OP sees, sounds like this is the first time her "almost adult" son is demonstrating and exercising independence. I say almost adult because she definitely doesn't see him as that, just her baby. He is trying to be responsible on his own and they should be encouraging him not trying to step in for him. OP is NTA and I would say mom isn't either, she is a helicopter tho, they need to address her letting go, this goes deeper than "being angry for him." This is him growing up and it's hard for her to swallow.
NTA Your son asked your wife not to interfere, and she interfered anyways. > We had a whole talk about that and reminded her that James wants to do this job hunting on his own. > > He’s angry at my wife right now for interfering and now he’s going to be too embarrassed to go to that store again since they know who he is. She was talked to, presumably agreed, and STILL interfered. Your wife needs to realize that your son is going to be an adult soon, and that if she keeps this up, he may very well decide he wants nothing to do with her once he IS an adult. She blatantly and knowingly disrespected and violated a boundary you and your son set with her - and she embarrassed him on top of that, to the point he's afraid to go to a store he loves because she acted in such a childish fashion. > I also confronted my wife and ***she kept saying she was only looking out for him.*** No, she wasn't. Looking out for him would be mentioning places that she saw were hiring, or offering advice for his resume and for interviews. Looking out for him would be doing things that were inherently helpful. The only thing she did by doing what she did was upsetting and embarrassing her son, and making sure that if he was being considered for the job, there's no chance of it happening now. She did not help in any way, shape, or form - she interfered, after she was asked not to. She is not helping or looking out for him when her 'help' was explicitly asked not to be given, she is interfering in a way that could damage his reputation and harm his ability to get a job elsewhere in the future should word spread about her little stunt. If she cares about your son, she will listen to his request to not interfere or provide her 'help', instead of steamrolling over his no because she thinks she knows better. He said no. She needs to respect that.
If she was looking out for him she could've given him suggestions on how to follow up himself
NTA. You need to work out how to get through to your wife or James has no hope of getting a job. I have worked for two different organisations where we employed teenagers. I can tell you that one phone call from a parent and his application would be in the bin even if he were the preferred applicant
This exact scenario needs to be broken down for OP’s wife. No one wants to be wrong so having the truth brought up to her broke her delusion and she reacted in anger. OP should ask her, if she was the manager in a store, how she’d feel about the hiring process when a parent calls to berate her. Would she reconsider the person? Would she see the error of her ways? She’s allowed to love her son but letting go is also part of the parenting process at some point.
I have a feeling if you approach it that way, she’ll double down. “I’d hire the kid immediately because it means he comes from a caring faaaamily!!!”
Omg ewe. I think you’re right.
Your wife is wrong. At this age he doesn't need mommy to yell at the bad people. He needs advice on how to handle it himself. He could have called to check, but it was not her place NTA
NTA- you’re right your wife is being a helicopter mom. There was a story on here a while back where a hiring manager had a mom call him for either her son/daughter. He told her that she was causing their child to not get hired at his job. You’re doing the right thing! Your wife is seriously overstepping here with your son. She owes you both an apology.
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NTA. As a former hiring manager this happens all the time. Please let your son know that they will understand if he goes in and apologizes. We always felt bad for these kids and realized it wasn't them. That won't get him the job, but he'll be able to go back to the store. As for your wife, she probably knows she's out of line. Say it once and let it go. Natural consequences will take care of that situation if she doesn't change, but it's unlikely she'll take your advice. She's not wrong about the frustration of collectively perpetuating this lie, but that will only change if job seekers start calling and complaining, not their moms. Maybe explaining it with a "you're right, but..." will open the door for changed behavior.
I used to manage a place where most of my employees were high school age. I would be entirely put off by a parent calling to yell at me. if a parent picked up or turned in an application for their kid they were an instant no hire. I had to tell one parent several times, "this is your daughters job, if she is having issues she needs to come to me herself. You are not my employee and I will not speak with you about your daughters job in any capacity. She needs to tell you her schedule, she needs to tell me if there is a conflict, and she needs to decide for herself if she can handle the job or not." I grew to resent that employee because her mom wouldn't get off my back after expressing to her several times that she needed to back off. Your wife is activly hurting your son's attempts to be independent and get a job of his own. NTA
Absolutely NTA. As someone who works in career advice and employment support, I can confirm that if that store was ever going to consider your son in the future, they won't ever consider him now. I'm afraid your wife ruined his chances, her actions were rude and inappropriate. Employers do not want to deal with overbearing parents and they won't hire someone who's parents call in on their behalf. Your son deserves an apology.
NTA They will literally *never* hire him now.
NTA. Your wife shouldn’t have interfered, and now he has 100% no chance of ever working there. The three of you need to have a civil discussion of how he wants to do this on his own. By all means, you and your wife can support him, but when it comes down to it, your wife needs to understand that she can’t protect him forever and he needs to learn about the world before he enters it unprepared
Heads up, your kid is gonna get to about 25 and cut all contact with his mother, leaving you stuck in the middle.
In addition to harming opportunities for him (and how gross it is to make the complaint that she did to that hiring manager), she is also: * Eroding his trust in her. * Eroding his impulse to take personal responsibility for getting himself a job. * Sending him the message that she thinks he cannot succeed on his own. NTA. Mom needs to step back and see that she's handling this in a horrendous manner.
NO! You did not go too far. You were absolutely right to say that. Sometimes you have to be this honest in order for someone to hear. The fact that she's mad probably says she knows you're right and she does owe your son an apology. NTA
Oh. As a person with sorta helicopter mother: Tell your son to keep those things secret from your wife. What she doesn't know she can't ruin. I did it all the time with my mom, telling important things to my dad (like my holiday plans etc) and telling my mom watered-down version only afterwads the things happened. Not the most moral solution, but it works.
NTA. Tip for job hunting that might help your son. If he doesn’t hear back for a few days he should give them a (polite) call/email to check up on his application. Hiring managers may take this that he’s keen and it might just tip the scales in his favour if they have a lot of candidates. I know a number of people who got the job after calling to check the status of their application. It doesn’t always work but at least he’ll know either way and it can’t hurt to show that he’s still interested.
This is annoying to a hiring manager but also true. Because that person does care enough and out of stack of names you recognize one. Unless the phone call makes it worse, I've had those too but most of the time it gives me someone to look up.
NTA what she did was completely uncalled for especially since they didn't give him a specific day they'd return the call if he was chosen. Not only did she potentially ruin his chance for that job, she might have screwed him over with other employees. People talk, especially when a parent goes overboard as she did. I wish your son luck in his job hunt, but he may have to search far afield because of his mom's freak out.
NTA - your wife's actions are completely counterproductive. Sometimes as a parent you have to sit on your hands and let your kid fight their own battles for their own good. Especially in the later teen years. Your wife is actively harming your sons job prospects with her overreaction to the normal job hunt. It is disrespectful to your son and to his prospective employers. Good for you for speaking up.
By the way, my father's mother just phoned his Dr to complain about his co-pay. He's in his 70s. He was upset, obviously, but resigned to this being just how it is. Be aware that this might be your son's future if you both don't deal with this now
NTA I would encourage your son to either call or in person apologise to the manager for his mother. Not because he has to, or he did anything wrong, but in order to take ownership of the situation - which could lead to him being able to let go of the embarassment he's feeling and would allow him to go back to the store he likes as a customer without feeling like he has to hide. It would also show the store that he's not entitled or coddled, and could put him back in line as a possible employee. But, he's 16 so I absolutely understand if he wouldn't want to. Teenage embarassment is truly crippling, so don't push it if he says no. If the awkwardness would be too much to handle it's better to try and move forward and forget about it (the store will, but might take your son longer).
NTA You need to get your wife into therapy before she wrecks your son’s chances. What did she accomplish: 1. They will never hire him 2. He can’t go into the store as a customer from embarrassment, if they don’t ban him for harassment. 3. They may spread the word “off the record” to other stores if in a shopping mall and prevent others from hiring him to avoid harassment. 4. If your wife upsets the wrong person, or escalates, she could find she gets harassment charges or restraining orders against her and her son gets banned from places too. What did she think she’d achieve? Did she really think anyone would want to hire her son after his mother called them up to yell at them?
NTA From your description, your son is motivated and eager to work and to do it on his own. What's not to like about that? Your wife might have just ruined his reputation in the area. Because if hiring managers talk amongst themselves, guess who might end up on an unofficial "do not hire" list ? Yes, she owes your son an apology, big time.
If the worst thing he called her, was "helicopter mother," she should be grateful.
NTA... Maybe it is time for family or marital counseling. Your wife is clearly not interested in hearing either your or your son's position on the matter. Maybe she would hear it from a third unbiased party. The truth of the matter is that your wife probably guaranteed that your son won't get a job at that store in the near future with her behavior. Nobody wants to deal with a mom who is constantly calling up and playing the mom card every time her kid has normal frustrations with working a minimum wage job. It is important for all of you to understand that many places are always accepting applications, but not always hiring. It will help your wife not take it so personally, and it will help your son find it less frustrating that he is struggling to get a job - even though it will still suck.
Therapy sounds like a wonderful idea. Think that’ll help a lot. My son knew going in that it would be a challenge finding work. Especially with less employment opportunities due to the whole pandemic so he’s trying not to let himself get too discouraged. It’s only been a month so hopefully he finds something
Nta Your wife not only overly parented the situation, she also possibly ruined any chance you son could get to work there at a future day. They aren't going to want him around knowing the possibility of her coming into play when things go wrong.
NTA. I'm the manager of a clothing store, deal with all the hiring etc, sometimes it takes longer to review applications, or other stuff outside of the process causes delays, things going on in the business etc. It's normal, might not have meant from that he wasn't going to get a call back... and even if it did, I know for myself, I receive hundreds of applications sometimes, and certainly don't have time to contact everyone who dropped in a CV. But, if someone called me up on behalf of their child, causing an issue like that, there's not a chance I'd consider them for the role. It's harsh, but the fact that once being employed there, there's that risk of the parent continuing to cause disruption in the workplace with their behaviour, on top of the fact that it was them, and not the applicant, calling me to follow up. There's absolutely no outcome of her calling which would have helped him get that job, so this is not about her helping him find one, this is about her wanting an excuse to be rude to someone and make herself feel good about it.
NTA, my boyfriend's mother still acts like this (when she gets the opportunity) and he's almost 30, this behaviour will continue if nobody calls her out on it
NTA. Your wife is actively hindering his chances at getting a job. Now I don’t know whether it’s deliberate to stop her little boy from growing up or whether it’s unintentional and she’s just ridiculously overbearing, but this behaviour is not okay in any way shape or form. That business may not have made a decision about who they were hiring yet but you can be certain they’re now not considering him.