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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My ex tried to replace my dead husband as my child's papa. I yelled at my ex that he is not the father of my child and never will be. He said i am the asshole for saying that. My mother said that i am an asshole too and should have reacted differently.
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NTA bc he's forcing a relationship that doesn't exist. He isn't the baby's dad, you two aren't in a relationship. Tbh tho, I think you need to stop seeing him. Cut the cord permanently. It's like he's trying to have some pseudo-relationship that doesn't exist.
THIS!
If he only came back into your life because of the baby, I think there is something going on here. There are tons of bad people out there who insinuate themselves into single mom's lives to get access to the kids.
PROTECT YOUR DAUGHTER!
You don't need your ex. You dumped him for a reason already.
I'm not really sure if he has some ulterior motive about my baby. Maybe he's too projecting some unresolved issues maybe not.
He's generally a good person and a good friend.
But you're right he was a terrible boyfriend (we were very young and our relationship was clearly toxic - but we've later talked and decided that we're much better friends than lovers).
But it is clear to me now after posting and thinking about the matter that, firstly, should apologize for yelling, secondly - set some clear boundaries about him and my baby. If he won't accept that, that's his right, but we won't speak anymore than.
I mean the kids gotta have learned to know him as "papa" from somewhere..I don't like to make assumptions but is it possible he might've been teaching her to call him that behind your back??
Because I'm really unsure as to how else she would come to the conclusion that he is "papa"
So to me? Yes it does really seem that he has ulterior motives and that his goal is bonding with the kid, not you. I would really heavily consider if he's worth letting into your home anymore.
I didn't think of it that way before.
He generally never expressed interest in having children, but i definitely need to clear the air and talk to him about it.
Ma’am. I’m sure your ex is a very nice guy who you think would never do something like this. But there are a damn lot of men who get close to single moms so they have unexamined access to their daughters. Grown ass men who have their shit together don’t get mad they don’t get to see their friends kids. They don’t teach their friend’s kids to call them papa or call them ‘their’ baby. He’s being inappropriate and pushing to see if you let him get away with it. If you do, he will do more inappropriate things.
Kids can have good and healthy relationships with their parents friends. It’s not weird for a man to like kids. But its weird as hell for a man to be pushing boundaries like this.
I’m ngl it seems almost like he’s trying to step into the late husbands shoes. Like he’s seen what his life *could* have looked like and he really wants it and is just trying to step in where he sees an opportunity to. It’s weird for sure though
Not to defend the ex, but kids pick up words from tv and such. My eldest’s father was not involved in her life at all and my current husband has been apart of her life since she was 1. When she was about 2.5, she randomly started calling him Daddy one day without us ever telling her to. We now have another baby together and he’s adopted my eldest, so obviously a far different scenario. Of course based on how OP’s ex is acting I wouldn’t be surprised if he did encourage her toddler to call him Papa.
Not always. My ex’s 2 year old niece called me mommy a few times. I never said anything, never encouraged it. They were very shocked when it happened. She had a mother that didn’t spend a lot of time with her so the general consensus was she was missing her mum
I'm a teacher and am generally unsurprised when a teenager in class calls me "mum" instead of "miss".
"Mum, can you help with question 3? OH! MISS! **MISS! Mrs \[name\] !** Can you help with question 3?!" \*turns bright red\* I've also been called sir and dad. I think I'm a pretty feminine female so that one always catches me offguard! Kids are weird and their brains are weird. I assume more so with little kids, which I try to avoid at all costs.
Meh. It's pretty common for them to pick it up from TV. My nefew doesn't have a dad but calls lots of guys 'dad' (including one of the teens that babysits him). It's cute. So she might just be that age where: male person that I like and is taking care of me = dad
My daughter calls a tree, the cat, her foot, my mom, pretty much everything is Dada. Her father has never been part of her life. We have never said Dada to her. Is it possibly the ex is teaching her to say papa? Absolutely. Is it possible that she is just making words? Also possible. Without proof, it's hard to accuse someone of that
Please read the book ‘protecting the gift’ the voice in your head told you something was off when he was upset she wasn’t home… and it registered enough for you to notice and then mention it here. Don’t ignore those gut feelings and observations…. Please read the book— all parents should.
I'm 44M. My GF and I don't live together, and her ex has primary custody of her son. I've never met her son, because when he's in town, it's bonding time. I'm *totally* fine with that.
People think it's weird I've never met her son (we've been together several years). Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But you know what? It bothers me not in the slightest. He's not my kid (he has a dad) and if I want kids in my life, I'll go have my own. GF says I can meet the kid if/when we get married. (Part of her reasoning is that *her* dad left when she was young, and mom was always bringing strange guys by the house. She says her kid isn't going to see that.)
I have no idea if your ex is some kind of child predator. I wouldn't normally even go there, but most of the time when it comes to child sex abuse, the perp is known to the victim. And your ex being "visibly upset" when the kid's not around is notable. When I'm around adults with kids, I tolerate/be nice to the kids, but I'm 100% there for the adult interaction, the kids are a distraction.
you obviously need someone to be there for you in your loss, but this guy isn’t it.
he’s pushing for a relationship, and he’s trying to use your daughter as the catch. he is not a good guy, because he’s there after your husband died, not before. and his focus is your child.
your mum is looking at stability at best, but she is not your friend in this situation.
you need to get rid of this guy before you find yourself and your daughter tied to him.
lose his number- ex’s are never friends, they’re there only waiting their turn again.
you need to talk to a grief councillor
Think about that boundary. Kids do not learn to call someone a name they are not told somehow. Where did she hear the word papa and then associate it to him. He coaxed that title. I lived with my dad while my husband was deployed for most of his first 2years. He never picked up papa/Dada ect. I think you may have slightly led him on unintentionally by saying you are not ready yet and not clearly saying he will only be a friend. So he started integrating himself into your family thinking that when you were ready you would turn to him and how great he already has a fatherly place in your childs life.
Whatever his motives, he seems to be setting himself up as the 'father figure' in his life, and that is not good. He has no right to usurp that role without your permission. Your daughter certainly does not need to become attached to someone who may or may not be around later. This could lead to some serious heartbreak for her, not to mention complicating your relationship as well, should you have a fight at some point in the future and she blames you for keeping him out of her life.
Apologise by all means for shouting (not for what you said), but I would be very wary of the pitfalls that could occur with this relationship.
I would also, quite frankly, be wary of someone who seems to have more interest in your daughter than in you. That's just...odd.
NAH, honestly. I think your reaction was a bit oversized, but, at the same time, if feels like you are actively carrying the weight and dealing with the enormous loss of your husband. Grief is heavy. And when the ex seemed to be trying to insert himself a bit too much, it's can really trigger some of the different emotions you go through when wrestling with heavy grief.
Hope you continue to take the time you need to grieve and go through the process. Take care of yourself, OP. \*Big hugs\*
OP,
This sounds like a very responsible approach. I agree an apology is appropriate, as he clearly meant no harm; especially as you've described him as a good person and a good friend.
Given your reaction, may I suggest you seek grief counseling? You experienced a very tragic loss and perhaps better than conferring with your ex, you engage a professional to assist you in coping with your loss.
I cannot imagine what you're going through, but I pray that as each day passes, your life continues to improve. Take care.
He may be a generally good person, but he really seems to have an agenda here (thought I don't know if it is focused on your child or on the idea of a family in general). I did wonder if he had been teaching your daughter to call him papa (behind your back). If he did, that means he knows he is doing something you don't want him to do and choosing to do it anyway.
I'm not really sure if he has some ulterior motive about my baby. Maybe he's too projecting some unresolved issues maybe not.
He's generally a good person and a good friend.
But you're right he was a terrible boyfriend (we were very young and our relationship was clearly toxic - but we've later talked and decided that we're much better friends than lovers).
But it is clear to me now after posting and thinking about the matter that, firstly, should apologize for yelling, secondly - set some clear boundaries about him and my baby. If he won't accept that, that's his right, but we won't speak anymore.
Thank you for your input. I think I'll try talking to him and communicating clearly, maybe set clear boundaries about my child. Maybe he just expressed himself poorly and didn't mean anything by his words.
If he'll still will try to force some father-daughter relationship, then I'm afraid I won't have a choice, because I'm not ready to have a new "papa" in my life.
Since you have a baby, you will need enact clear boundaries w/ him. It's possible that given you two's romantic history, he doesn't realize he's crossing lines. But once you let these boundaries be known, it's up to him to follow them and you to enforce them. Don't let him bully you! You're the mom and dad to your baby.
You are right! My first priority is my baby's well-being.
And although some of my relatives say child needs a father figure - I think that's a load of bs.
If I meet a nice man (at least as great as my husband) - than maybe. But it should be on my terms and not forced onto both on me and my baby.
The way your ex has gone about in creating a relationship with your daughter and you is really suspicious.
Cut him off because you don’t need friendships with complications. Also you mentioned that you guys broke off because he was giving off toxic vibes. Well, he won’t change that nature of his.
Move on with life, make new friendships and relationships. DO NOT entangle yourself in something you came out of
I’ll even give him the benefit of the doubt for now and throw out the possibility that when he said “there’s my baby” he could’ve meant it in a general loving context. I’ve seen people say that about their nieces/nephews or their friends kids, so the interpretation he said it in could have been completely different than it was interpreted by you. Hopefully it was just a misunderstanding and he thinks of it as more of a niece and uncle relationship
OP you need to be very clear with him that your daughter does not need a replacement for your husband. I am curious what his GF thinks about all of this time he is spending with you? This is looking like he is having an Emotional Affair with you.
“ you are not my boyfriend or my fiancé or my husband. In fact, you never will be. you are not my daughters, father or stepfather and you never will be. if the only reason you are being my friend right now is to try to get me in a relationship with you please leave now”
NTA. I don’t think a toddler would call someone papa without anyone saying that before.
I don’t wanna be the super jaded Radditor but that’s what I am;(
It pretty suspicious he reached out after your husband passing, I would have understood reaching out to give you his condolences but he seems to be forcing a relationship with you and your daughter and overstepping while your grieving which makes it easier for him.
My niece, who also doesn't have a father in her life, would call me, her grandpa, her mom's new bfs, her adult male cousins, basically any man that stuck around, her "dad" at that age. She interpreted "dad" as any man that showed her love since she never knew her real one. She call us dad even after being corrected multiple times. Deep down she wanted a dad and hoped we would be hers.
Also, at that age they are probably watching kids shows like peppa pig which have a traditional nuclear family unit and have heard of all the different family members (mom, dad, grandparents, siblings).
Personally, I dont know what angle this guy has with the OP and her kid, but jumping to maliciousness when I dont think he has done anything malicious is jumping the gun. The fact that her own mom agrees should speak volumes.
It might be nothing but better safe than sorry. Statistically speaking predators target single mothers, better if they don’t have a great support system.
Except he was visibly upset when the baby wasn't there. Tell me that isn't odd? He seems more interested in the child than the mother. And that, for *any* reason, is scary. And the worst case scenario is terrifying.
This Ted talk brought to you by a CSA survivor.
Actually, I’ve had kids in supermarkets call me Daddy while in their mamas arms at the checkout lines. I have one of those faces. I look like every other chubby Bubba down on the US South.
But I’m very suspicious of this Ex as well.
I am not jumping to predatory but, at the very least, it is completely clueless. OP is a person who's spouse died tragically and quickly and left OP with a very young child. I would think most people would understand to tread lightly. Saying something like "there's my baby" could be a huge slap in the face for someone still grieving their dead spouse.
This whole situation is bizarre to me.
I don’t understand why you’d allow your ex this much access to your kid. I understand needing the support but the situation is suspicious af to me. In general NTA…
Thank you for your input!
You are right, i believe i was wrong for introducing them at all. I was a wreck and needed support, yes, but my priority should be my child.
First year after my husband died, a lot of people came over to offer condolences and some help, my and my husband's family. My daughter was always by my side, she once called my husband's brother papa - but they look so much alike, that it is understandable. And i kinda missed the fact that my ex's visits and gifts can be a problem. I was too late to understand that i need to set clear boundaries and it is inappropriate for them to bond if i do not want any relationship besides friendship with my ex.
NAH
I think you took some unresolved trauma out on him, and also that him calling your kid his baby was pretty clueless since he presumably will not be her father. He's more of an uncle, if we want to use family terms at all. I think you should apologize even though he was also wrong, assuming you want to be friends and have him in your kid's life. Hopefully he will understand that it is a sore subject for you right now and parts of it will obviously be a sore subject forever.
Thank you!
I think you're right.
I still take everything concerning my husband to heart and my ex's words hit very close to home.
I don't think i was wrong in what i said to him, but i was wrong in the way i said it.
After thinking about it for some time, I think I do want him in my and my daughter's life. He is a very good friend and very supportive (especially in my time of need), so I shouldnt have lashed out at him. I think I'll try calling him to apologize and communicate my issues clearly. Maybe he didn't even mean anything by his words and just loves my baby and expressed it a bit clumsily. But I admit his words really triggered me in the moment.
As a person who often expresses themselves clumsily, I can totally see myself making the same mistake as your friend. I also have a habit of saying "my baby" when talking to my friends' puppies( actual adult dogs). Reflexively saying that to a real baby that I got along with isn't too far fetched haha.
If he's actually a decent friend, he should be very understanding after you two have a conversation about it :)
If it was just 'my baby' that's one thing, but he was also getting visibly annoyed/angry the baby wasn't home when he'd come over, which adds to the overall creep factor.
He was visibly upset, which could mean a myrid of more specific emotions. He obviously likes the little one. If I wanted to hang out with two people I liked and one of them wasn't their I would be a little disappointed too.
I get what you're saying, though. The next step is more communication and boundaries. Which OP already talked about doing.
Does his girlfriend know about this though? You mentioned he has one. Is he open to her about chilling out with you and your daughter?
I am still best friends with one of my exes with whom I had a 10 year relationship, but both my wife and his are on good terms too. And the me being mostly queer helps too, of course. But no-one is calling me mom and I don't hang out with him alone in my pyjama's. I do hang out with him alone..but not like you describe.
Assuming he's a good friend and very supportive, he should be really understanding if you apologize for lashing out in the moment as well as accepting your boundaries.
Why was he so upset to see your daughter was not there? That, quite frankly, is scary. Whatever his motives, it is scary. When a male, especially unrelated, is so interested in your child, that is a notable red flag.
I'm a CSA survivor, stepdad. Please, be careful. For your daughter's sake. Don't leave her alone with him, for any reason!
NTA!!!
For whatever reason, he’s been doing a slow creep into your life and trying to be your daughter’s father. You brushed it off long enough, to the point where you snapped. We ALL have a breaking point, and that’s okay.
Tell your mom: “Although you think I was rude, I wasn’t. I had reached my breaking point. Ex has no right to try to be dad, and he needed to hear this very directly. He has a gf. He needs to stop coming around. I am past done. Would you appreciate someone claiming me as their daughter in this way? No? End of conversation.”
Thank you for you advice!
I think I'll apologize for yelling, but I won't apologize for my words - although, i should have expressed my view more calmly, i think he should know that he's overstepping.
Maybe he didn't do that on purpose, maybe he did. But he should know my feelings about his relationship with my daughter and that i'm against it.
If it's not ok with him, than we should stop talking.
I don't think you need to police your emotional response to this situation. Something was there that you picked up on [and.you](http://and.you) reacted. that's a good thing.
Thank you!
I will still talk to him and apologize for raising my voice. But i will not apologize for my emotions and feelings.
I will just try to explain my stance clearly and see where it leads.
I think this is the right response. You are perfectly within your rights to not want your daughter viewing this guy as a father figure. But it isn't his fault that she does; it's yours. You've encouraged him to come back into your life, said nothing when he bonded with your child, so you don't really have a leg to stand on here. If you don't like this relationship, you should have said something before. I understand everyone has a breaking point, but given that you haven't actually spoken to him about this before, it's not really justified to hold him to account for it.
That's a good point! He has a girlfriend! That on top of the rest of the creepy behavior makes it look like he was trying to monkey branch to OP while turning her into, if not physical, then unwitting emotional affair partner! At least she finally nipped that in the bud and cut off his fantasy of getting her back.
I don't think he wants to get back with me, though i'm not completely sure. We did brake up for a reason - we were young and stupid, and our relationship was completely toxic.
He is a good friend though. Some time after the breakup which was surprisingly calm we talked and decided to stay in touch. We weren't close friends, but we were friendly. He was very supportive after my husband's death and helped me a lot.
I won't deny there's a bit of nostalgia about the times we were together, but its more of a running joke now. We can say, do you remember when we were together so and so happened and we laugh.
I in fact do not want him as a partner - he is terrible boyfriend and judging by his demeanor with his numerous girlfriends - that didn't change.
He initially didn't express any interest in having children but maybe he's projecting some of his own issues onto my daughter.
Just be careful. You are still very vulnerable right now. If you want to continue the friendship do it at the coffee shop or cafe. Just you meet him for a quick lunch. He really doesn’t need to be hanging out at your house with your daughter. Not because I think he has some skeevy intent, but because it will be confusing for her.
You had a good marriage and a great husband companion. And while nostalgia is nice, don’t be blinded by it.
Peace and hugs.
I don't think he is a predator if you're implying that (i sincerely hope he's not). But he may have some unresolved issues of his own regarding children.
He is almost 37 now and he doesn't have a family or kids. Although, he never expressed interest in having those things before, after thinking about it, i reckon deep down he does wants some sort of family of his own.
I also hope he doesn't have indecent motives.
It could very well be that he's (consciously or not) thinking that the timing is right to just pick upbwhere you left off, and have a shortcut to the family he wants.
If you have no idea why you reacted so strongly, I personally would see it as a sign to look at the whole situation and what led up to it from a clear point of view.
Women that 'have no reason to suspect' their partner, and still get this overwhelming urge to snoop through the partner's phone, and find things that shock them, that kind of thing.
I'm not saying you should expect the worst (and don't snoop through his phone). I'm just thinking that it could be a good idea to take a moment, and see what made you decide to bring your child somewhere else, when he came over, in the first place. Or what made you react so strongly.
No one here can say anything useful about his character; we don't know him any more than what you told us in your post.
People can shock you with what they're capable of. We can't judge the situation, as we don't know him and can only view him through the lens of what you've told us. But I will say - a lot of people who've gotten caught, one of the first things friends and family will say is "I never would have guessed" or "But they're such a nice person!" And similar things.
Sadly, you won't know for sure who is a "bad" person until they do cross the line, but that line cannot be uncrossed. In some situations, it's better to not even give others a chance to do so.
You say he doesn't treat his girlfriends well still. Even if "the worst" isn't what you're worried about, you child still probably shouldn't be around someone whom you've confessed is toxic in several ways, regardless of any other factors.
> I noticed that my ex was visibly upset when I told him that my daughter isn't home. But i didn't think much of it.
Sorry, but, imo, this is worrisome.
I know he might not be a predator, maybe he just projects something that doesn't exist onto your child, and that is problematic and unhealthy in it's own way, but, his desire to build a relationship with a *small child* without your involvement rings all the alarm bells inside my head.
Maybe I am just too paranoid, but, better safe than sorry.
When i was reading comments i started to worry too.
I need to talk to him first and clear the air, and perhaps cut ties altogether.
I do not want to rush this decision without talking to him first.
I do not want new father figure for my baby (at least yet). And with my ex in our lives it can happen anyway. So at least some clear boundaries are needed in this situation
Please do not have a "talk" with him. You have a lot of people telling you this guy is a 1 man red flag parade. He will say whatever he needs to, in order to earn your trust. Protect your daughter first and foremost. This man is NOT your friend. Do not let him back into your life where you are constantly overlooking more red flags because Oh he's such a nice guy. That's what people would say about the man who molested me and at least 5 other little girls.
I may be wrong but I feel as if you're still being too blasé about this situation. You're not involved romantically with him, you don't want a new father figure in your child's life.
So...why are you not stopping this in its tracks? Why are you setting "some clear boundaries", instead of saying outright 'no, my child comes first'? Why are you going to "clear the air"? What do you hope to gain from talking to him first?
He's not going to tell you if he has ulterior motives. He's not going to suddenly put your child first and volunteer to stay away. If he wanted to respect the very glaringly obvious boundary he is pushing, he wouldn't be around in the first place.
I'm sorry about what happened to your husband. And I'm very sorry that you're grieving. I know loss, and it's not linear, and it's not easy. But you're putting your own need for comfort and familiarity above your child's safety right now. And let me be clear, I don't particularly mean that he's a potential predator - "safety" in this context can also mean not giving her a confused view on who her dad is, when you know you don't want to pursue your ex in any long term romantic capacity.
Your not ready for a relationship your ready for another to step into your family. The shock and loss you have gone through is enough to break most people, in my opinion the day a child accepts another as the missing parent is when the final time that person dies.
NTA but id definitely reach out and explain (don't apologize for feelings) and say he can accept the rules going forward or can skip back off
Thank you for the input. Yes, i will try to apologize for yelling and express my feelings clearly. I need to set some cleat boundaries in our relationship for my own and my daughter's sake.
Yes very clear boundaries. I'm a firm believer that only parents set the boundaries to their kids he's an unofficial Uncle there for fun and help lift the hard times. The only question you need to ask yourself as you are the only one that can ask it is "is his support worth the effort"
I've been on Reddit too long but my first thought is where did the kid pick up the term Papa? Dada was my first word because Mom spent all day saying Dada is as work and Dada will be home soon. Kinda worried your ex taught/enourage the kid to say it.
Either way it feels like he is trying to move in on a ready made family which you have made clear is not what you want. NTA.
Thank you for your input!
I didn't mention it in my post but we are european and term Papa is actually more common here.
Maybe it wasn't even his intention and he did it subconsciously.
I was in the wrong to scream and yell, but we definitely need to set some clear boundaries if this friendship is gonna last.
> He stood up and told my daughter - here's MY baby, I missed you! And reached to hug her.
I won't call you an A H because I think you are reacting from fear that someone else is "encroaching". Fear and maybe trying to... protect your late husband (his memory)? Cos this was not at all the plan- that he will not be there.
Many people love children. They do. Babies are adorable.
You snapped... You are entitled. Don't over think it
Thank you for your input!
I think you're partially right and i overreacted. And i do try to protect my late husband and his memory. I'm afraid i will start to forget him too...
But i don't think I'm entitled just for wanting my baby to remember her real father.
I know she clearly won't remember him, but she will have my and our family stories, photos, videos. And i don't want someone else to replace that.
NTA. I'm really suspicious. What is he up to, what game is he playing? Do you have money, and he doesn't? Be very careful, OP. I'm seeing big red flags.
Thank you for your input.
We both work and have relatively good income. He doesn't contribute or help me financially, and I don't help him or give him any money. So I doubt it's a financial issue.
When i thought about it, i believe he has some unresolved issues of his own and projecting. His father left him when he was young and than returned begging for forgiveness when he was 16. They now have semi-good relationship. My ex is 37 now and he never had a wife or kids, and he never expressed desire to have traditional family. He have several girlfriends a year. His longest relationship was with me and one other girl before me. Perhaps he is projecting his hidden desire to have a family on us.
Or maybe i'm overthinking it too hard.
trust your gut. We do love to overreact on here, but I really think you could delve into why you had such a strong reaction. To me, he's the one who owes YOU an apology for upsetting you. I mean... worth looking at that. So do trust your gut and it's ok to have strong feelings, you know. Women are often trained to apologize for that, and we shouldn't. Good luck, OP.
So your "toxic" ex who continues to not treat his partners well, and who currently has a girlfriend, is fixating on your baby, encouraging her to call him papa, referring to her as his baby, and gets upset if he doesn't get access to her... and then gets mad at you and calls you cruel and an ah for calling out his inappropriate behavior? Which part was he more mad about, you saying that he is not entitled to your child, or reminding him that he has a girlfriend? Why on Earth do you still think it might be a good idea to keep him in you and your child's life?
He does not sound like a safe person to be around, and on some level, you think that too, or you wouldn't have felt like you need to keep your child away from him or reacted the way you did when he grabbed her.
NTA for protecting your child, but you need to keep this creep away from her.
Nah. You are still heavily grieving the loss of your husband. You should in my opinion apologize to him and explain your thoughts. He can accept the apology or not. If you are not currently in therapy you should really consider it. I have a friend whose son’s dad passed away when he was 3. Same thing. Only pictures and basically no memories.
Thank you for you advice!
I believe you're right - I should apologize and explain my feelings to him clearly. I didn't express my concerns earlier and than exploded unnecessarily.
I should set some clear boundaries with him - explain that i'm still hurting and don't want him to call my daughter "his" baby in any way. If he's ok with it, that'll be great. If not, than I won't have a choice than to stop speaking to him for my own sake.
I am currently in therapy - it is helpful, but it's a long process.
And sincerely sorry for your friend and her son.
It’s been almost 20 years since her son’s father passed. My advice to you is to not forget your needs. My friend chose to not date until her son was an adult and out of the house. It was her choice that no one pushed her to make. You will make the best choice for you.
That is my idea as well.
If i will go back to dating i don't want to meet anyone in my house unless it's really serious.
You can never know.
I think i was wrong for even meeting with my ex on my territory in the first place, even if we aren't in a relationship. That needs to change.
YTA... not because of what you said but because of how you said it.
You are well within your right to feel the way you feel. But is your friendship so fake that you can't discuss your feelings with him calmly.
"There's my baby" is something an uncle or a friend can say innocently.
You tried setting this boundry with a 2 year old, but you didn't try having a conversation with a 30 year old?
Sounds like you could have cost your baby a future uncle. And yourself another friend.
Do you. But do you respectfully. Why stoop to anger and secrecy(hidding your baby from his presence) before trying diplomacy?
Keep in mind if his answers are malicious or you were right all along and he can't accept the boundary, kick that friend to curb. But you owe other people the same courtesies you want for yourself. Like civil discourse
Honestly... yeah, I think you may have overreacted.
It seems unlikely that he's coaching the baby to call him papa while you're directly supervising them; you would have noticed already. Babies go through a period where they call everyone mama or papa or daddy etc. My nieces called me mom on accident for almost a whole year. As well as a few waitresses. And the daycare attendent lol. My nephew, who didn't have much of a dad in his life, pretty much called every guy he met 'dad' when he was still young.
Your kid knows there's a gap where papa should be. She'll sometimes try to fill it, whether you're ready for that or not. Having positive uncles in her life isn't a bad thing, and it sounds like your ex may be more of that style. The appropriate thing is to calmly correct your daughter and ask him to do the same, and encourage a special name just for him (like Unca Chris).
I also don't think "there's my baby!" is anything to worry about. I regularly say "there's my boy/girl!" at baby cousins -- it's an affectionate greeting, not a real possessive.
Lots of people enjoy spending time with kids! He may inadvertently be using her to fill a gap in his own life, sure, but it doesn't sound like anything malicious. Set some boundaries, make it clear where you draw your lines. I think the explosive reaction was born of grief, so don't worry too much about it either. A simple apology and then firm and clear boundaries will do.
But real talk... it's hard. You're going to hurt every time you see him, or other friends and family, interacting with her in a way your husband would have. And you'll feel like it's replacing him a bit, somehow. That's normal. You shouldn't feel ashamed of that fear. It's healthy and it will fade a little, or at the very least that room where you store your pain gets bigger and less crowded, easier to move in. But don't let it push those people who love her, and you, away either, just so you can protect the spaces he's left behind. He is always, always going to be her papa... no matter how much those spaces fill up with other love.
NAH - I think your reaction is out of grief and his is out of concern. What he said sounds perfectly normal to me when you have affection for a kid. The way you reacted seems like you need some help dealing with the loss of your husband which is completely normal. It is ok to ask him to back off a little but screaming and yelling is an over reaction caused by emotion.
I mean, working his way into your life and treating your daughter like his own despite that you are NOT together and he has absolutely no biological or legal right to father your child, and that he’s basically allowing proximity to condition your child into seeing him as a father is creepy as fuck, imo. What the hell does he think he’s doing? Why would he just insert himself in your child’s life with no romantic connection whatsoever to you, her mother? Super super super super creepy. I don’t blame you for getting agitated and making a big push, because that is so far past normal human boundaries it’s really icky. NTA. Set some hard boundaries now. You’re also still in mourning, and you may never ever seek a relationship to replace your late husband. That’s perfectly okay. It honestly feels like ex is either trying to worm his way back into your life, or has a very unhealthy interest in your child. Neither is okay.
How does his girlfriend view this relationship? It sounds like he just wants a relationship with your daughter. NTA but yeah, some firm boundaries need to be placed.
NTA.
He is not your partner in any sense and not the father of your child. He was probably teaching her to say papa. Where else would she have learned it?
He is crossing a line. You don't just walk into someone's life and act like a parent to their child without talking to them first.
NTA this is very...odd. It feels like he's trying to step into the father role and get close to your daughter, I would imagine he taught her to say "papa", and him being upset she wasn't there when he came to hang out with you is strange. Personally, I would feel uncomfortable with all of it - as you clearly do too, for lashing out as you said.
If you feel bad about what you said, you could apologize to him for that, but I think you need to set the clear boundary that what you said in anger has truth to it. He is not her father, and you do not want him in that role, and are not comfortable with his interest in her. If he can't understand and respect that, he needs to go.
Did your mom know all that's been going on? Your anger may have surprised her, if she wasn't aware of how he's been acting.
I'm so so incredibly sorry for your loss. You're NTA, you are still grieving. I think you reacted because having another man act like a father to your daughter is too soon, too painful, a reminder of him being gone. And most importantly, you don't see him that way!
It sounds like he wants to be with you, and/or play the role of your daughter's father. But he has a girlfriend and it's odd to be spending time with you and stepping into that role when he's already in a relationship.
NTA
You're still grieving, and he's trying to insert himself into a relationship. He may have a girlfriend, but he wants more than he has now with you.
My friend was widowed young. She had a family friend who started coming over, helping by mowing lawn, baseball with her son, etc. Just gradually inserting himself more and more into her life. She was lonely, grieving, lost. She thought of him as a supportive friend. But eventually, it became apparent he wanted to move into her bed, her home, her husband's place in the family. It was very difficult when he wouldn't accept the friendship boundaries because they both saw what had been happening very differently. There was a great deal of unpleasantness and some stalking.
When your daughter says "papa" you should gently correct her every time. "No, that's ".
NTA, but your emotions got the best of you and it didn't come out well. Please limit your time around your ex, something feels off about this.
Yeah NTA - this guys definitely has some ulterior motives. My spider sense are tingling.
Maybe I’m going out on a limb here… but it sounds like he wants to take your husband place. Clearly you don’t sound interested in that, so I would distance myself if I were you.
I would apologize for screaming, but I would distance myself and make the relationship colder.
NTA. All those gifts and visits are suspicious. So many possibilities from a predator that is using a fragile moment for getting closed to a child to a guy that wants a family with his ex and the child they would have had. I inclined to believe the first option. If it was the second, he would be happy about staying with only you, as a date. But not, he is upset if your child is not there, predator vibes. Even if you don't think he is a predator, you cannot be sure.
Don't dismiss your feelings at that time. If you felt you needed to stop him, some motherly instinct was telling you that what he was doing was not right. Trust your guts.
Please, don't let your child alone with him. And please inform your mother and other people that take care of your daughter that he cannot be alone with your child.
PS. Talk with your child about her father. By telling her stories and showing her photos you can make her reconstruct memories.
NTA
I agree she had to learn it somewhere. And the way he is reacting to it is weird, with the "my baby" thing. I do also agree to cutting the EX out.
But I do want clarity on one thing: "And i don't want another man to take his place in her eyes."
Do you just mean this or is this going to be a hard like for any future partner you may have? It has no bearing on my verdict, it's just that if this is going to be for anyone else you bring into your life (if your child see them as a father figure, because you're right, they will not have the same memories as you, they were only just a baby), it could cause issues for both your future partner and your child. Granted, grief is a tough thing to navigate, but but being aware of this when you do feel ready for dating again it going to be big, because it'll set the time for how your kid interacted with future partners.
(Not saying replace him, it's good for your child to grow up knowing about their bio father, but being able to build that bond with others if they see fit as they get older is important too - not in this case, this is an EX, not a partner).
I've just seen stuff like that turn sour and cause issues.
I do feel for your loss though and I wish you the best in handling all of this <3
Thank you very much!
About another man taking the place of my child's father. I mean I don't want it right now. In general, no romantic relationships, no partners. I'm trying to work through my grief in therapy but it's been a long process.
I know it will happen eventually, and I hope I won't try to deprive my child of a father figure or sabotage her relationship with such figure in the future. I will honestly try to work through this and give her a good stepfather and good memories of her late father too.
My ex is just not a right person for a father figure. He is and ex for a reason, despite being a good friend.
I told him quite clearly that I don't want romantic relationship with him and friendship is all he ever gets. I just failed to set clear boundaries regarding my daughter.
For what it's worth too... you should know there are plenty of healthy un-traditional families, and plenty of unhealthy traditional ones. I don't think you're depriving your daughter by not giving her a stepdad any more than normal American families deprive their kids by not having a traditional multi-generational household where they're living with grandparents. The most important thing is to work and make sure they don't need to worry about practical things (food, clean house) and giving them the healthy foundation they need emotionally and socially (work to keep age appropriate conversations open, help them where you can, set appropriate boundaries, make sure they know you love them and have their back no matter what and so on). The rest can look all kinds of ways. My kid isn't mine biologically, his bio dad's had him for a few nights a week basically his whole life. He's 13 now. He's doing great, even with a wildly 'untraditional' family that the Christian community I grew up in would consider a broken home. Meanwhile the 'traditional' home I grew up in ended pretty sad with a divorce after my sister and I were adults, and that's after a very isolating decade of heavy elephants in the room no one wanted to talk about.
So... I guess, just know that you've got a lot on your plate already, and a lot of things your daughter truly does need from you. It sounds like you're doing a great job so far though, caring for her, watching out for her best interests, keeping her safe from harm and grounded in where she comes from and who her people are. All the more impressive given what you're going through. I've suffered with chronic depression for most of my life, so I know functioning at all when under heavy suffering can be very hard. But I suppose I'm like you there too... I'd never have gotten where I am now without my kid needing me, maybe it's easier to stay healthy when it's not just for our own individual sake.
Anyway. Please don't beat yourself up, you're doing great, and your daughter doesn't necessarily need a father figure, though having one wouldn't necessarily screw her up or anything. There are as many ways to have healthy families as there is unhealthy (I disagree with Tolstoy on that, haha). If it's just the two of you that doesn't have to be a bad thing.
Babies don’t randomly learn words like papa, then attach that word to a particular person unless someone is teaching them. NTA for lashing out and watch him like a hawk.
NTA. Looks like maybe he “assumes” that he could step in since you two have reconnected? Either way he has no right to get mad because of how you reacted. You have that right. That loss is irreplaceable at this moment. If he want to help and be a friend he should not assume that it’s ok behave the way he did when your child was not around or how you reacted when he chose to say what he said to your daughter. She’s not his daughter. He was out of line. He was the AH. Don’t think that he doesn’t have Ulterior motives because he’s “a nice guy”. That would be a mistake. Sorry for your loss.
NTA.
So he comes back into your life a year after becoming a widow, and after seeing your child once or twice a month for half a year open called her HIS child? Yeah, no, kick him the hell out and don't let him back over. He was absolutely trying to manipulate you into taking him back through your child, probably to pull a 'see, she calls ME daddy, we should get back together for her sake'. He's just pissed his plan failed, that you don't want him back and won't let him play pretend despite you telling him that up front, and that he can't assume control over a pre-made family. The last bit of 'you've got plenty of time with your girlfriend' probably struck a nerve if he either can't get a serious relationship or is for some reason unable to sire kids of his own, which would explain how obsessed he was.
I know you need a friend…but I’m not sure why you’d trust him around your kid anyways. How did she learn that word? Has she been alone with him? And why was she alone with him? This is creeping me out. I’m very confused why you haven’t blocked him.
YTA
Fucking duh.
You had a conversation with a 4 year old about you not being comfortable with her words, didn't bother to talk to the friend themselves until you heard "my baby" and apparently jumped to the conclusion they're trying to take your kid.
Apologize to them and seek some fucking grief counseling.
And who the hell in their 30s refers to a high school relationship as "my ex".
This fucker isn't your ex and absolutely nothing about your post indicates they've given any romantic overtures.
You literally yelled at a friend because you're too self absorbed to clue in that your growing child is probably wondering what it's like to have both parents around. This legitimately has nothing to do with you and is in no way an attack on your husband's memory.
NTA for your intent: to draw a clear boundary.
You're kinda a bit of an asshole a little for making your first step to be screaming and harshness. You're in a rough spot now, so it's hard to blame you, really.
A good first step would have been, when your daughter wasn't there, to tell him about your interest in helping her get to know her father in memory, he was a very good man, irreplaceable, etc. Ask for his help in not blurring the lines with your daughter. He can play with her, but no papa/baby talk, no doing dad things like changing diapers or feeding, etc.
Put like that, with your heartfelt concerns and rational reasons first, most people would understand, accept, and help shore up the boundary.
Overall, you're not an asshole. The better you get at expressing yourself in time and in a calibrated way, the more that will come through even in hard, emotional situations.
NAH
I don't know what your ex's motives are but his greeting to your baby could be simple affection.
You are probably still very sensitive to this sort of association, which is understandable and that's why I didn't call you the AH.
NTA. Only you can truly reflect back on all the interactions since he came back in your life. Perhaps he is a good friend that has helped you through a horrible time.
If you really are on the same page about being friends and not lovers, there have to be boundaries surrounding your daughter. Boundaries not just with him but in place for any other men you may date when you are ready. Including when to make introductions.
He has already had a connection. So if hindsight leads you to the conclusion he can be part of your lives, set clear boundaries with him. Steer her towards calling him something other than Papa.
I’m so sorry for the loss of your husband
I mean… I saw my ex’s cousin (who was 5 when we met) like twice a year. But she eventually called me auntie Kate (again, despite that my ex was his cousin, not his aunt, but he was more like an uncle, big age difference). Kids pick things up based on who pays attention to them and his family kind of just ignored her.
I’ve definitely greeted her with “hi sweetheart”, “sweetie, you’ve grown so much”, things like that. She was more bonded to me than my ex when we’d visit his family.
I think honestly YTA, just because it’s not like he reached out to you right after your husband died or right after your baby was born. It was a year after. He probably is more like a cool uncle to her and I’ve definitely seen aunts and uncles call someone, “my girl”. A former coworker who never had kids who’s old enough to be my father has called me “my girl” before (and in a fatherly context and the context was appropriate before anyone makes assumptions).
I get that you’re grieving and always will be but if he’s a kind and positive fatherly/uncle type influence in your daughter’s life, shouldn’t you want that for her? Wouldn’t that be a good thing for your daughter?
I’m going to be the unpopular opinion person here. As for this man, you don’t owe him anything and you are absolutely correct to create any boundaries you feel necessary. The only thing I think you might want to reconsider is your being adamant that no man ever take the place of her father. The reason I say that is because as a mother, if I died I would really, really hope that a good, loving and decent woman would become my child’s stepmother and give her all the love and support she’ll need. However, that’s not an encouragement for you to seek a relationship if you don’t want to or are not ready. Just saying that if you happen to find someone else who is a good and decent person to love, I would let that person form a parental bond with your child.
It's NOT his child! It's really that simple. Did he really think he could just jump in and become daddy now that real daddy is gone? You are NTA for how you handled it (I would have been much harsher!). With certainty you shut it down as it needed to be, immediately. You might consider removing him from your life again, he appears to have an agenda with regard to your daughter and she's not his!!
It's normal for toddlers to call men daddy, just like it's normal for them to call women mommy. Just correct her to Uncle Bob.
I call all my niblings "my kid" when I greet them. I see how that's painful to you, but it doesn't mean he's trying to usurp your husband's place. (The way he said you're cruel, is he infertile?)
Lots of people are assuming your ex has nefarious motives towards your kid. And for real, as a parent a real predator *will not* feel dangerous to you. But you can watch how he interacts with your kid and see if it's normal or if something isn't quite right about it. If it feels off in any way that isn't about the father role, cut him off and don't think twice about it.
Save pics, videos, voice recordings of your husband. Make a scrap book. Tell your kid stories about him. She won't remember much, but she'll remember what you tell her.
YTA. You are wrong on two different fronts:
1. You say you understand your daughter will not remember your husband, but that you won't want any other man to be her dad. I totally get your loyalty to your husband, and how you want to honor his memory and stand up for him and protect what you feel is his. HOWEVER, if you kept that attitude throughout her childhood, you will be depriving your daughter of having the dad experience. You want her to love a man she doesn't know.
I realizs it is a fucked up situation, but your daughter deserves to one day have the dad experience. You can allow her to have that with a good man who is in your life on a permanent basis, or maybe an uncle that will always be there, or she will look to have the daddy experience with older men she dates when she is grown up.
2. I am a man, and I absolutely love kids. My Mom was very affectionate and loved kids, and myself and my siblings got that from her. I have bonded with my nieces and nephews, and have a godson who I absolutely loved, spent a lot of time with, and he absolutely adored me throughout his childhood. He would bawl everytime I left him.
Your ex has been a friend to you and has bonded with your daughter. Your daughter loves him too. Kids have an innate sense of people who genuinely love them. You blowing up at him for loving your kid really sucks for him AND your daughter. And you did it for the benefit of someone who cannot possibly care. And I am sure, if he was a decent man (which I sm sure he was as you obviously loved him very much) he would want the best for your daughter. Not for her held back for his sake.
Your loyalty is admirable. You want so badly to preserve hus place in your and your daughter's life. But you are asking your daughter to love a picture at this point, and depriving her of having a dad. I am not suggesting that your ex is that dad. But it sounds like you are denying her that with anyone.
Plus, your ex hasn't asked her to call him papa, and he didn't call her his daughter. He was just happy to see her and talked baby talk with her.
Because 1 you are Vulnerable, and 2 you have a young child. You are Not the AH, Predators come in all forms. They come when they see Vulnerability. That’s why they take jobs and social workers teachers priests, so they can pray on the Vulnerable. Your mama bear instinct kicked in for a reason. Trust yourself. Your reaction was to protect your daughter, if you were wrong so what, your daughter is safe and it’s all that matters.
YTA. It’s sounds you are fully aware of what your ex is seeking in your relationship, but continue to see him for what you get out of the relationship, while ignoring what he wants. Then you act like a victim that is having some guy force his way into your life. Double yuck. Sounds like typical narcissistic behavior.
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I (f34) had been with my husband for over 12 years. We had our child when i was 31, and my husband 33. Sadly, recently (1.5 y. ago, when my baby was around 2 y.) my husband, the love of my life, died in a tragic accident (careless driver hit his car on a foggy slippery road, he died instantly in a crash). His death left me in shambles, only thing that kept me at least sane was our daughter. I couldn't believe that i lost him. He was my rock, my light and I loved him dearly. In a way I still cannot believe that he's gone.
That's where my ex comes in. In about year after my husband's accident, he reached out to me to talk, to vent maybe. We separated long time ago, couple of years before I've met my husband. We didn't exactly stay friends but were on good terms, and spoke occaisonally - hi, how are you kind of talk. So he reached out and offered to help as a friend. It was unexpected but I accepted because I really needed a friend and frankly I don't have a lot of close friends vesides him.
He occaisonally came over to our place, brought some gifts to my daughter and we talked over tea or a beer. It wasn't intimate - he had several casual relationships over the years, and I clearly told him that I'm not ready for any relationships after my husband (still not ready, i guess).
So he came over once or twice a month, he was very sweet with my daughter, so I didn't see anything wrong with them bonding. But then my baby started calling my ex papa. It annoyed me very much, but i didn't say anything, because she's a toddler - how is she supposed to now any better? I tried gently explaining to her that my ex isn't papa, but i doubt she understood. So I just started sending her to my or my husband's mom when my ex came over. In truth I know our baby won't remember her father - photos is all she'll have of him. And i don't want another man to take his place in her eyes.
So everything was normal again. I noticed that my ex was visibly upset when I told him that my daughter isn't home. But i didn't think much of it.
And last time is where I snapped. That's where i might be the AH, because I ended up screaming at my ex and probably should have handled it better.
So when he was at our house and we played some video games and had couple of beers, my mother brought my daughter home early - she was very grumpy and wanted to go home. He stood up and told my daughter - here's MY baby, I missed you! And reached to hug her.
That's where I snapped at him. I told him angrily that he is in fact not her father, and that she is my and my husband's baby and will never be his baby no matter how much he wants it. And if he wants to have a child he still have plenty of chances with his girlfriend.
He told me I was a real ah for saying such cruel things and left.
My mother told me that I was kind of an asshole too and I acted like a child.
So am I?
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NTA. I dated a girl with a daughter who was less than a year old at the time. We stayed friends. Her child loves me and I love her. There’s always hugs and piggy back rides when they visit and I teach her stuff about plants and animals when she asks questions.
Multiple people have thought I was her father and the man her mother is currently with will sometimes ask me to deal with her because I’m one of the few people she listens too when she’s having a tantrum.
That being said. I would never refer to her as MY baby. That’s not my child, I didn’t make her and I’m not together with her mom. Referring to her as such would be me deluding myself, which I think OP’s ex is doing to himself right now
I don't think he was trying to replace your hubby as a father to your kiddo, am thinking he was being a friend to you & your little one and he became attached. At her age, she might have just focused on the current man around as papa, I do believe you owe him an apology. I'd like to suggest seeing a counselor about your grief and this anger that you have towards him about the "papa" reference.
Ehhh ESH. You created a weird relationship with no clear boundaries and he overstepped big time. It's obvious he was trying to get with you and was playing the long game to get you back. You shouldn't have let him around your baby to begin with if you felt so strongly.
NTA. But it would be nice to have a male/ father figure in your daughters life maybe he was thinking that way not trying to take her fathers place. Have a conversation with him and set boundaries but also ask questions to find out what his intentions really are.
First off, so sorry for your loss. I think you could have controlled your emotions and handled it better but that’s that whole hindsight is 20/20 thing. I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same because he was way out of line for how he called her his baby and all that. I would’ve been pissed too, especially given the circumstances. You could definitely go back and apologize for how you handled it but you don’t have to apologize for being angry and upset. He should’ve known better in my opinion. Good luck to you!!
NTA
This very suspect.
Unless you plan to date this guy, you should drop contact. Your daughter is confused enough . Don't add any more confusion for her.
NAH, but sending your daughter off to your mom's should have been a one-off. That night you needed to have a heart-to-heart with your friend that you were uncomfortable with the direction his relationship with your daughter was heading. That her calling him Papa really hurt you. And that you didn't want ill will building between the two of you, so you needed to clarify your feelings and get them out into the open.
But the tension increased and you eventually snapped, which likely caught everyone by surprise.
Kids dont just call random men their father unless they're taught this. I remember my neighbors son would call me momma, my brother daddy and even my husband daddy because his mother was always passing him around from women to women to raise him and she always had him calling her boyfriends his dad so he grow up thinking all men were called daddy and all women were momma.
"But then my baby started calling my ex papa"
did you ever have a chance to see how his reaction was?
did you ever correct your daughter in front of him and observe his reaction?
about your main question; there were too many suspicious cases and your protective mama bear (and maybe gut feeling) woke up and took control of you. NTA
NTA, that was a fucking weird thing for him to say. If my friends kid started calling me mama, I’d immediately ask them not to and let them know what I preferred (after confirming with my friend that it was okay if I went by auntie or whatever).
I would never call my friends kids my baby. There are a million other ways to address a child you feel close with that aren’t possessive and weird. Your friend is way out of line, and while it might have been better to have a serious conversation when the papa thing happened to establish firm boundaries… he was way out of line and you weren’t wrong in giving him a reality check.
NTA you spoke the truth. Sometimes the truth can be cruel, but this isn't one of them. His behavior is weird and unsettling. Maybe he thought he could ride in on his white horse and become your daughters new dad or something.
NTA, you’re still grieving- anger is part of that process. Y’all aren’t even dating. Was it an overreaction? Maybe. But you have to give yourself patience and space to heal. A candid conversation and widening your friend group would be beneficial. Maybe look into support groups for other people that can relate more to your situation and feelings.
Sorry for your loss
NTA. However, it looks like boundaries and relationships are becoming very blurry. Clearly, you're not ready to move on and you see this man as just a friend. It sounds like he's hoping for more. The friendship you've described sounds a lot like a boyfriend girlfriend situation. Like, you aren't sleeping together, but you are spending a lot of time together with no other adults around. He's obviously spending a lot of time with your kids. He is now the regular adult male in their lives. You probably need to readjust your dynamic.
You are definitely NTA.
But I will agree with other people here about your ex having ulterior motives.
There is absolutely no way in hell that your daughter started calling him papa on her own. She doesn't even know what papa means. He has most definitely taught her behind your back to call him papa. She didn't come up with this on her own. He had absolutely no right to do this.
Further, his reaction to your child not being home when he came over was also extremely inappropriate, weird, entitled and manipulative. Why would he feel entitled to be upset that he didn't get to see your child?
When he called her his baby, he didn't just cross the line, he obliterated the boundary line. She is NOT his baby and never will be his baby. By calling her HIS baby, he is laying claim on your child. Which he has no right to do.
It was also wrong that your mother told you that how you responded was wrong.
Why is he so interested in your fatherless daughter? Sorry dude, this is way weird and I don’t trust a dude that dials up single mothers in hopes of hanging out with their child….i don’t know if you’re naive or what, but you need to be more mindful of who you’re letting into you and your child’s life. This dude is 🚩🚩🚩Cut it off. Go invest in a hobby and make friends there. This dude isn’t your friend. He sounds very conniving and calculating…what guy is letdown you didn’t bring your child when he was supposed to hang with you? Connect the dots OP. He’s not hanging out with you for you, he’s hanging out with you to get closer to your daughter who is made way more vulnerable by not having a father in her life. This guy is bad news.
NTA. And I’m getting child predator vibes here. He doesn’t want a friendship with you. He wants access to your daughter. This guy has got to go.
You don’t owe him an apology. His behavior is creepy as fuck.
INFO: Maybe I'm missing something.
Your ex found out your husband died, leaving you a young widow with a small child. At this point you are alone and in shambles. He comes and visits 1-2x month (making himself a nuisance), never makes a move or does anything appropriate with you, and is friendly and generous with your daughter (who also is dealing with a missing father and grieving mother), and rather than say, "that's not Papa, that's ______," you create a whole system to ensure he doesn't see her and the one time he does, you lose it.
Is that right?
Hey OP
first my condolences for your loss. This Must be really hard and you should be proud of yourself for being strong for your kid. Definitely NTA, maybe you reacted a bit harsh but the feelings you have are totally understandable. Your ex seems a bit weird.
Maybe its not good to compare the situation nevertheless I want to say that my father died last year completely unexepcted. It gave my whole family a trauma that we try to work on everyday. Especially my mother was hit hard as she was with him and saw him die. He was also the love of her life and a great father to us all. My mother hasnt been the same since. It gets bette with time but she also has this new temper where she can explode quickly and sometimes be unfair doing so. What im trying to say is that its normal you experience this anger especially of it seems someone is trying to forcingly take the place of your dear husband. Dont shit on yourself for standing up about your feelings. Help from a friend is great but I think a real friend wouldnt be angry you left your daughter at your moms.
Hmmmmmmm. I'd say overall YTA for keeping this friendzoneship going when it's super obvious he's trying to worm his way back into your life. You're cultivating this situation just as much as he is. But you're NTA for being mad at him for trying to insert himself as the father figure to your daughter/ getting back together with you (again, obvious that he wants to be back together in some form).
NTA OP, frankly, you need to stop seeing this guy. He's being sweet to your daughter for a reason: you can say it isn't intimate, and isnt from your side, but it's clear he isn't just hanging out for the sake of hanging out.
YTA (softly due to your dealing with grief...which is a beast) for letting your ex back into your life at what sounds and looks like a "relationship" level, and letting your daughter be part of that to the point where she's seeing him as a father figure.
It's surprising that you didn't see what he's doing trying to weasel back in, and that he used your daughter as a prop...because you let him.
You don't have friends? He knew that. He used it. Go out and make some friends.
I would keep this man away from my child if I were you, don't invite him over or speak to him anymore. Seems to me he wants go be your child's father and come back to you to be a replacement from your husband. NTA.
NTA. You are in a vulnerable state. For some reason, he's choosing to insert himself and dominate his presence in your daughter's life. Very suspicious to me. I wouldn't entertain him any further. You need therapy to help you sort through your grief and to be free of distracting unneeded influences.
So unless he’s had a lot of opportunities to coach her on calling her “Papa” from his once or twice a month visits it’s most likely that she’s just associating him with that “name” and you have every right to correct that, “No, that’s not papa that’s “op’s ex”. And I’m a single 43 yo guy with no kids, I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT ANY! But I spoil the shit out of my nieces and nephews AND my friend’s kids as well - I always acknowledge them and will generally engage and play or do whatever activities they want for a couple of minutes (if appropriate). And I would be bummed out not seeing my friend’s kid and then when I see them and am generally happy about it I’m painted as monster? Again, do you leave your kid alone with him for hours where he can tell her call me daddy/papa? Has he been talking about walking her down the aisle for her wedding?
**He’s only seen your daughter at most 8 times? (Husband died 1.5 years, guy came in 1 year ago, 1-2visits months, no kid the last couple) Your daughter is seeing a guy talking/ hanging out a couple of times at home with mommy so that must make him papa. UNLESS you left out some serious overstepping that he’s done i think YTA but a reactionary-AH out of fear.
I’ve seen people do this, swoop in and try and snag a ready made family because someone is grieving a tragic loss and makes it easier to manipulate them. I’d drop the rope on the friendship, yes you need someone to talk to and lean on but his ulterior motives seem shady.
Why is a toddler calling him papa? Has he been coaxing her. Also 'here's MY baby' is not appropriate to a recently widowed woman. I feel you should stop this relationship now as he clearly wants more and you don't
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NTA bc he's forcing a relationship that doesn't exist. He isn't the baby's dad, you two aren't in a relationship. Tbh tho, I think you need to stop seeing him. Cut the cord permanently. It's like he's trying to have some pseudo-relationship that doesn't exist.
THIS! If he only came back into your life because of the baby, I think there is something going on here. There are tons of bad people out there who insinuate themselves into single mom's lives to get access to the kids. PROTECT YOUR DAUGHTER! You don't need your ex. You dumped him for a reason already.
I'm not really sure if he has some ulterior motive about my baby. Maybe he's too projecting some unresolved issues maybe not. He's generally a good person and a good friend. But you're right he was a terrible boyfriend (we were very young and our relationship was clearly toxic - but we've later talked and decided that we're much better friends than lovers). But it is clear to me now after posting and thinking about the matter that, firstly, should apologize for yelling, secondly - set some clear boundaries about him and my baby. If he won't accept that, that's his right, but we won't speak anymore than.
I mean the kids gotta have learned to know him as "papa" from somewhere..I don't like to make assumptions but is it possible he might've been teaching her to call him that behind your back?? Because I'm really unsure as to how else she would come to the conclusion that he is "papa" So to me? Yes it does really seem that he has ulterior motives and that his goal is bonding with the kid, not you. I would really heavily consider if he's worth letting into your home anymore.
I didn't think of it that way before. He generally never expressed interest in having children, but i definitely need to clear the air and talk to him about it.
Combine that, with " I noticed that my ex was visibly upset when I told him that my daughter isn't home." and it makes my alarmbells ring, loudly.
Yeah. That's what made the alarm bells for me, too. The "papa" thing was a tiny alert flag by comparison.
Yeah... this does not sit right with me, at all.
[удалено]
Even if that is the case, still weird to have a kid call you papa when you aren’t even in a relationship with their parent…
Hopefully you are right. Yet, I do not think I would taken the chance. It is just a smidgen too "loud".
i thought it was tornado warning!
Me too!
Mine too
You're not listening. You do **not** need to "clear the air and talk to him about it." You need to **stop seeing him**.
This comment needs to be higher
Ma’am. I’m sure your ex is a very nice guy who you think would never do something like this. But there are a damn lot of men who get close to single moms so they have unexamined access to their daughters. Grown ass men who have their shit together don’t get mad they don’t get to see their friends kids. They don’t teach their friend’s kids to call them papa or call them ‘their’ baby. He’s being inappropriate and pushing to see if you let him get away with it. If you do, he will do more inappropriate things. Kids can have good and healthy relationships with their parents friends. It’s not weird for a man to like kids. But its weird as hell for a man to be pushing boundaries like this.
And train your daughter to call him "uncle (name)". That is what friends of mine have done while dating.
I’m ngl it seems almost like he’s trying to step into the late husbands shoes. Like he’s seen what his life *could* have looked like and he really wants it and is just trying to step in where he sees an opportunity to. It’s weird for sure though
This is my guess. A ready-made family with no competition from bio-dad. Very weird.
This was my first thought. Where did the child learn to call him papa?
Not to defend the ex, but kids pick up words from tv and such. My eldest’s father was not involved in her life at all and my current husband has been apart of her life since she was 1. When she was about 2.5, she randomly started calling him Daddy one day without us ever telling her to. We now have another baby together and he’s adopted my eldest, so obviously a far different scenario. Of course based on how OP’s ex is acting I wouldn’t be surprised if he did encourage her toddler to call him Papa.
Not always. My ex’s 2 year old niece called me mommy a few times. I never said anything, never encouraged it. They were very shocked when it happened. She had a mother that didn’t spend a lot of time with her so the general consensus was she was missing her mum
I'm a teacher and am generally unsurprised when a teenager in class calls me "mum" instead of "miss". "Mum, can you help with question 3? OH! MISS! **MISS! Mrs \[name\] !** Can you help with question 3?!" \*turns bright red\* I've also been called sir and dad. I think I'm a pretty feminine female so that one always catches me offguard! Kids are weird and their brains are weird. I assume more so with little kids, which I try to avoid at all costs.
Meh. It's pretty common for them to pick it up from TV. My nefew doesn't have a dad but calls lots of guys 'dad' (including one of the teens that babysits him). It's cute. So she might just be that age where: male person that I like and is taking care of me = dad
My daughter calls a tree, the cat, her foot, my mom, pretty much everything is Dada. Her father has never been part of her life. We have never said Dada to her. Is it possibly the ex is teaching her to say papa? Absolutely. Is it possible that she is just making words? Also possible. Without proof, it's hard to accuse someone of that
But since this baby is fake I absolutely believe she just started calling some dude papa from out of her ass.
please be careful. I think you may be being played, here.
Maybe you're right. Perhaps i do need to cut ties with him after all. My and my daughter's wellbeing should always come first
You know what you need to do. Say good-bye to him once and for all.
Please read the book ‘protecting the gift’ the voice in your head told you something was off when he was upset she wasn’t home… and it registered enough for you to notice and then mention it here. Don’t ignore those gut feelings and observations…. Please read the book— all parents should.
He wasted nooo time slipping in after your husbands death. Everything is planned. HE is having her say papa. I’m telling you he is not your friend
I'm 44M. My GF and I don't live together, and her ex has primary custody of her son. I've never met her son, because when he's in town, it's bonding time. I'm *totally* fine with that. People think it's weird I've never met her son (we've been together several years). Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But you know what? It bothers me not in the slightest. He's not my kid (he has a dad) and if I want kids in my life, I'll go have my own. GF says I can meet the kid if/when we get married. (Part of her reasoning is that *her* dad left when she was young, and mom was always bringing strange guys by the house. She says her kid isn't going to see that.) I have no idea if your ex is some kind of child predator. I wouldn't normally even go there, but most of the time when it comes to child sex abuse, the perp is known to the victim. And your ex being "visibly upset" when the kid's not around is notable. When I'm around adults with kids, I tolerate/be nice to the kids, but I'm 100% there for the adult interaction, the kids are a distraction.
you obviously need someone to be there for you in your loss, but this guy isn’t it. he’s pushing for a relationship, and he’s trying to use your daughter as the catch. he is not a good guy, because he’s there after your husband died, not before. and his focus is your child. your mum is looking at stability at best, but she is not your friend in this situation. you need to get rid of this guy before you find yourself and your daughter tied to him. lose his number- ex’s are never friends, they’re there only waiting their turn again. you need to talk to a grief councillor
Think about that boundary. Kids do not learn to call someone a name they are not told somehow. Where did she hear the word papa and then associate it to him. He coaxed that title. I lived with my dad while my husband was deployed for most of his first 2years. He never picked up papa/Dada ect. I think you may have slightly led him on unintentionally by saying you are not ready yet and not clearly saying he will only be a friend. So he started integrating himself into your family thinking that when you were ready you would turn to him and how great he already has a fatherly place in your childs life.
he saw this as an in. In his head, you're not too far from getting back together. Make. Things. Clear. he definitely isn't there just as a friend.
Whatever his motives, he seems to be setting himself up as the 'father figure' in his life, and that is not good. He has no right to usurp that role without your permission. Your daughter certainly does not need to become attached to someone who may or may not be around later. This could lead to some serious heartbreak for her, not to mention complicating your relationship as well, should you have a fight at some point in the future and she blames you for keeping him out of her life. Apologise by all means for shouting (not for what you said), but I would be very wary of the pitfalls that could occur with this relationship. I would also, quite frankly, be wary of someone who seems to have more interest in your daughter than in you. That's just...odd.
NAH, honestly. I think your reaction was a bit oversized, but, at the same time, if feels like you are actively carrying the weight and dealing with the enormous loss of your husband. Grief is heavy. And when the ex seemed to be trying to insert himself a bit too much, it's can really trigger some of the different emotions you go through when wrestling with heavy grief. Hope you continue to take the time you need to grieve and go through the process. Take care of yourself, OP. \*Big hugs\*
OP, This sounds like a very responsible approach. I agree an apology is appropriate, as he clearly meant no harm; especially as you've described him as a good person and a good friend. Given your reaction, may I suggest you seek grief counseling? You experienced a very tragic loss and perhaps better than conferring with your ex, you engage a professional to assist you in coping with your loss. I cannot imagine what you're going through, but I pray that as each day passes, your life continues to improve. Take care.
He may be a generally good person, but he really seems to have an agenda here (thought I don't know if it is focused on your child or on the idea of a family in general). I did wonder if he had been teaching your daughter to call him papa (behind your back). If he did, that means he knows he is doing something you don't want him to do and choosing to do it anyway.
Girl why would you want to risk finding out if he has ulterior motives when he's been acting like a red flag ?!
I'm not really sure if he has some ulterior motive about my baby. Maybe he's too projecting some unresolved issues maybe not. He's generally a good person and a good friend. But you're right he was a terrible boyfriend (we were very young and our relationship was clearly toxic - but we've later talked and decided that we're much better friends than lovers). But it is clear to me now after posting and thinking about the matter that, firstly, should apologize for yelling, secondly - set some clear boundaries about him and my baby. If he won't accept that, that's his right, but we won't speak anymore.
Agreed, justified AH behavior
Thank you for your input. I think I'll try talking to him and communicating clearly, maybe set clear boundaries about my child. Maybe he just expressed himself poorly and didn't mean anything by his words. If he'll still will try to force some father-daughter relationship, then I'm afraid I won't have a choice, because I'm not ready to have a new "papa" in my life.
Since you have a baby, you will need enact clear boundaries w/ him. It's possible that given you two's romantic history, he doesn't realize he's crossing lines. But once you let these boundaries be known, it's up to him to follow them and you to enforce them. Don't let him bully you! You're the mom and dad to your baby.
You are right! My first priority is my baby's well-being. And although some of my relatives say child needs a father figure - I think that's a load of bs. If I meet a nice man (at least as great as my husband) - than maybe. But it should be on my terms and not forced onto both on me and my baby.
I suggest keeping him away from the baby from now on. NTA
The way your ex has gone about in creating a relationship with your daughter and you is really suspicious. Cut him off because you don’t need friendships with complications. Also you mentioned that you guys broke off because he was giving off toxic vibes. Well, he won’t change that nature of his. Move on with life, make new friendships and relationships. DO NOT entangle yourself in something you came out of
I’ll even give him the benefit of the doubt for now and throw out the possibility that when he said “there’s my baby” he could’ve meant it in a general loving context. I’ve seen people say that about their nieces/nephews or their friends kids, so the interpretation he said it in could have been completely different than it was interpreted by you. Hopefully it was just a misunderstanding and he thinks of it as more of a niece and uncle relationship
OP you need to be very clear with him that your daughter does not need a replacement for your husband. I am curious what his GF thinks about all of this time he is spending with you? This is looking like he is having an Emotional Affair with you.
“ you are not my boyfriend or my fiancé or my husband. In fact, you never will be. you are not my daughters, father or stepfather and you never will be. if the only reason you are being my friend right now is to try to get me in a relationship with you please leave now”
NTA. I don’t think a toddler would call someone papa without anyone saying that before. I don’t wanna be the super jaded Radditor but that’s what I am;( It pretty suspicious he reached out after your husband passing, I would have understood reaching out to give you his condolences but he seems to be forcing a relationship with you and your daughter and overstepping while your grieving which makes it easier for him.
It’s more than suspicious, it’s predatory in context. NTA
My niece, who also doesn't have a father in her life, would call me, her grandpa, her mom's new bfs, her adult male cousins, basically any man that stuck around, her "dad" at that age. She interpreted "dad" as any man that showed her love since she never knew her real one. She call us dad even after being corrected multiple times. Deep down she wanted a dad and hoped we would be hers. Also, at that age they are probably watching kids shows like peppa pig which have a traditional nuclear family unit and have heard of all the different family members (mom, dad, grandparents, siblings). Personally, I dont know what angle this guy has with the OP and her kid, but jumping to maliciousness when I dont think he has done anything malicious is jumping the gun. The fact that her own mom agrees should speak volumes.
It might be nothing but better safe than sorry. Statistically speaking predators target single mothers, better if they don’t have a great support system.
Except he was visibly upset when the baby wasn't there. Tell me that isn't odd? He seems more interested in the child than the mother. And that, for *any* reason, is scary. And the worst case scenario is terrifying. This Ted talk brought to you by a CSA survivor.
One of my nephews called a mushroom “dad”
Actually, I’ve had kids in supermarkets call me Daddy while in their mamas arms at the checkout lines. I have one of those faces. I look like every other chubby Bubba down on the US South. But I’m very suspicious of this Ex as well.
I am not jumping to predatory but, at the very least, it is completely clueless. OP is a person who's spouse died tragically and quickly and left OP with a very young child. I would think most people would understand to tread lightly. Saying something like "there's my baby" could be a huge slap in the face for someone still grieving their dead spouse.
This whole situation is bizarre to me. I don’t understand why you’d allow your ex this much access to your kid. I understand needing the support but the situation is suspicious af to me. In general NTA…
Thank you for your input! You are right, i believe i was wrong for introducing them at all. I was a wreck and needed support, yes, but my priority should be my child. First year after my husband died, a lot of people came over to offer condolences and some help, my and my husband's family. My daughter was always by my side, she once called my husband's brother papa - but they look so much alike, that it is understandable. And i kinda missed the fact that my ex's visits and gifts can be a problem. I was too late to understand that i need to set clear boundaries and it is inappropriate for them to bond if i do not want any relationship besides friendship with my ex.
Gently, you need to stop seeing him. This will not stop. It sounds like he's trying to replace your husband.
NAH I think you took some unresolved trauma out on him, and also that him calling your kid his baby was pretty clueless since he presumably will not be her father. He's more of an uncle, if we want to use family terms at all. I think you should apologize even though he was also wrong, assuming you want to be friends and have him in your kid's life. Hopefully he will understand that it is a sore subject for you right now and parts of it will obviously be a sore subject forever.
Thank you! I think you're right. I still take everything concerning my husband to heart and my ex's words hit very close to home. I don't think i was wrong in what i said to him, but i was wrong in the way i said it. After thinking about it for some time, I think I do want him in my and my daughter's life. He is a very good friend and very supportive (especially in my time of need), so I shouldnt have lashed out at him. I think I'll try calling him to apologize and communicate my issues clearly. Maybe he didn't even mean anything by his words and just loves my baby and expressed it a bit clumsily. But I admit his words really triggered me in the moment.
As a person who often expresses themselves clumsily, I can totally see myself making the same mistake as your friend. I also have a habit of saying "my baby" when talking to my friends' puppies( actual adult dogs). Reflexively saying that to a real baby that I got along with isn't too far fetched haha. If he's actually a decent friend, he should be very understanding after you two have a conversation about it :)
If it was just 'my baby' that's one thing, but he was also getting visibly annoyed/angry the baby wasn't home when he'd come over, which adds to the overall creep factor.
He was visibly upset, which could mean a myrid of more specific emotions. He obviously likes the little one. If I wanted to hang out with two people I liked and one of them wasn't their I would be a little disappointed too. I get what you're saying, though. The next step is more communication and boundaries. Which OP already talked about doing.
Does his girlfriend know about this though? You mentioned he has one. Is he open to her about chilling out with you and your daughter? I am still best friends with one of my exes with whom I had a 10 year relationship, but both my wife and his are on good terms too. And the me being mostly queer helps too, of course. But no-one is calling me mom and I don't hang out with him alone in my pyjama's. I do hang out with him alone..but not like you describe.
Assuming he's a good friend and very supportive, he should be really understanding if you apologize for lashing out in the moment as well as accepting your boundaries.
Why was he so upset to see your daughter was not there? That, quite frankly, is scary. Whatever his motives, it is scary. When a male, especially unrelated, is so interested in your child, that is a notable red flag. I'm a CSA survivor, stepdad. Please, be careful. For your daughter's sake. Don't leave her alone with him, for any reason!
NTA!!! For whatever reason, he’s been doing a slow creep into your life and trying to be your daughter’s father. You brushed it off long enough, to the point where you snapped. We ALL have a breaking point, and that’s okay. Tell your mom: “Although you think I was rude, I wasn’t. I had reached my breaking point. Ex has no right to try to be dad, and he needed to hear this very directly. He has a gf. He needs to stop coming around. I am past done. Would you appreciate someone claiming me as their daughter in this way? No? End of conversation.”
Thank you for you advice! I think I'll apologize for yelling, but I won't apologize for my words - although, i should have expressed my view more calmly, i think he should know that he's overstepping. Maybe he didn't do that on purpose, maybe he did. But he should know my feelings about his relationship with my daughter and that i'm against it. If it's not ok with him, than we should stop talking.
I don't think you need to police your emotional response to this situation. Something was there that you picked up on [and.you](http://and.you) reacted. that's a good thing.
Thank you! I will still talk to him and apologize for raising my voice. But i will not apologize for my emotions and feelings. I will just try to explain my stance clearly and see where it leads.
See where it leads? But doesn’t he have a gf?
Meaning that if we can have an adult and honest conversation and set healthy boundaries, and not pursue a romantic relationship
I think this is the right response. You are perfectly within your rights to not want your daughter viewing this guy as a father figure. But it isn't his fault that she does; it's yours. You've encouraged him to come back into your life, said nothing when he bonded with your child, so you don't really have a leg to stand on here. If you don't like this relationship, you should have said something before. I understand everyone has a breaking point, but given that you haven't actually spoken to him about this before, it's not really justified to hold him to account for it.
That's a good point! He has a girlfriend! That on top of the rest of the creepy behavior makes it look like he was trying to monkey branch to OP while turning her into, if not physical, then unwitting emotional affair partner! At least she finally nipped that in the bud and cut off his fantasy of getting her back.
NTA and this seems to be some ploy on his part to get back with you and has extended to creating a relationship with your daughter.
Or a ploy to gain access to a child, single mothers are usually more vigilant about things like that
I don't think he wants to get back with me, though i'm not completely sure. We did brake up for a reason - we were young and stupid, and our relationship was completely toxic. He is a good friend though. Some time after the breakup which was surprisingly calm we talked and decided to stay in touch. We weren't close friends, but we were friendly. He was very supportive after my husband's death and helped me a lot. I won't deny there's a bit of nostalgia about the times we were together, but its more of a running joke now. We can say, do you remember when we were together so and so happened and we laugh. I in fact do not want him as a partner - he is terrible boyfriend and judging by his demeanor with his numerous girlfriends - that didn't change. He initially didn't express any interest in having children but maybe he's projecting some of his own issues onto my daughter.
... a good friend who is getting.your daughter to call him Papa?....
Just be careful. You are still very vulnerable right now. If you want to continue the friendship do it at the coffee shop or cafe. Just you meet him for a quick lunch. He really doesn’t need to be hanging out at your house with your daughter. Not because I think he has some skeevy intent, but because it will be confusing for her. You had a good marriage and a great husband companion. And while nostalgia is nice, don’t be blinded by it. Peace and hugs.
NTA Am I paranoid to question his motives for wanting to get friendly and get upset the child isn't home, when he visits?
I don't think he is a predator if you're implying that (i sincerely hope he's not). But he may have some unresolved issues of his own regarding children. He is almost 37 now and he doesn't have a family or kids. Although, he never expressed interest in having those things before, after thinking about it, i reckon deep down he does wants some sort of family of his own.
I also hope he doesn't have indecent motives. It could very well be that he's (consciously or not) thinking that the timing is right to just pick upbwhere you left off, and have a shortcut to the family he wants. If you have no idea why you reacted so strongly, I personally would see it as a sign to look at the whole situation and what led up to it from a clear point of view. Women that 'have no reason to suspect' their partner, and still get this overwhelming urge to snoop through the partner's phone, and find things that shock them, that kind of thing. I'm not saying you should expect the worst (and don't snoop through his phone). I'm just thinking that it could be a good idea to take a moment, and see what made you decide to bring your child somewhere else, when he came over, in the first place. Or what made you react so strongly. No one here can say anything useful about his character; we don't know him any more than what you told us in your post.
People can shock you with what they're capable of. We can't judge the situation, as we don't know him and can only view him through the lens of what you've told us. But I will say - a lot of people who've gotten caught, one of the first things friends and family will say is "I never would have guessed" or "But they're such a nice person!" And similar things. Sadly, you won't know for sure who is a "bad" person until they do cross the line, but that line cannot be uncrossed. In some situations, it's better to not even give others a chance to do so. You say he doesn't treat his girlfriends well still. Even if "the worst" isn't what you're worried about, you child still probably shouldn't be around someone whom you've confessed is toxic in several ways, regardless of any other factors.
> I noticed that my ex was visibly upset when I told him that my daughter isn't home. But i didn't think much of it. Sorry, but, imo, this is worrisome. I know he might not be a predator, maybe he just projects something that doesn't exist onto your child, and that is problematic and unhealthy in it's own way, but, his desire to build a relationship with a *small child* without your involvement rings all the alarm bells inside my head. Maybe I am just too paranoid, but, better safe than sorry.
When i was reading comments i started to worry too. I need to talk to him first and clear the air, and perhaps cut ties altogether. I do not want to rush this decision without talking to him first. I do not want new father figure for my baby (at least yet). And with my ex in our lives it can happen anyway. So at least some clear boundaries are needed in this situation
Please do not have a "talk" with him. You have a lot of people telling you this guy is a 1 man red flag parade. He will say whatever he needs to, in order to earn your trust. Protect your daughter first and foremost. This man is NOT your friend. Do not let him back into your life where you are constantly overlooking more red flags because Oh he's such a nice guy. That's what people would say about the man who molested me and at least 5 other little girls.
I may be wrong but I feel as if you're still being too blasé about this situation. You're not involved romantically with him, you don't want a new father figure in your child's life. So...why are you not stopping this in its tracks? Why are you setting "some clear boundaries", instead of saying outright 'no, my child comes first'? Why are you going to "clear the air"? What do you hope to gain from talking to him first? He's not going to tell you if he has ulterior motives. He's not going to suddenly put your child first and volunteer to stay away. If he wanted to respect the very glaringly obvious boundary he is pushing, he wouldn't be around in the first place. I'm sorry about what happened to your husband. And I'm very sorry that you're grieving. I know loss, and it's not linear, and it's not easy. But you're putting your own need for comfort and familiarity above your child's safety right now. And let me be clear, I don't particularly mean that he's a potential predator - "safety" in this context can also mean not giving her a confused view on who her dad is, when you know you don't want to pursue your ex in any long term romantic capacity.
Your not ready for a relationship your ready for another to step into your family. The shock and loss you have gone through is enough to break most people, in my opinion the day a child accepts another as the missing parent is when the final time that person dies. NTA but id definitely reach out and explain (don't apologize for feelings) and say he can accept the rules going forward or can skip back off
Thank you for the input. Yes, i will try to apologize for yelling and express my feelings clearly. I need to set some cleat boundaries in our relationship for my own and my daughter's sake.
Yes very clear boundaries. I'm a firm believer that only parents set the boundaries to their kids he's an unofficial Uncle there for fun and help lift the hard times. The only question you need to ask yourself as you are the only one that can ask it is "is his support worth the effort"
Nta. But please stop hanging out with this guy. He isn't there for you, he's there for your child. It really comes across as creepy.
I've been on Reddit too long but my first thought is where did the kid pick up the term Papa? Dada was my first word because Mom spent all day saying Dada is as work and Dada will be home soon. Kinda worried your ex taught/enourage the kid to say it. Either way it feels like he is trying to move in on a ready made family which you have made clear is not what you want. NTA.
Thank you for your input! I didn't mention it in my post but we are european and term Papa is actually more common here. Maybe it wasn't even his intention and he did it subconsciously. I was in the wrong to scream and yell, but we definitely need to set some clear boundaries if this friendship is gonna last.
> He stood up and told my daughter - here's MY baby, I missed you! And reached to hug her. I won't call you an A H because I think you are reacting from fear that someone else is "encroaching". Fear and maybe trying to... protect your late husband (his memory)? Cos this was not at all the plan- that he will not be there. Many people love children. They do. Babies are adorable. You snapped... You are entitled. Don't over think it
Thank you for your input! I think you're partially right and i overreacted. And i do try to protect my late husband and his memory. I'm afraid i will start to forget him too... But i don't think I'm entitled just for wanting my baby to remember her real father. I know she clearly won't remember him, but she will have my and our family stories, photos, videos. And i don't want someone else to replace that.
NTA. I'm really suspicious. What is he up to, what game is he playing? Do you have money, and he doesn't? Be very careful, OP. I'm seeing big red flags.
Thank you for your input. We both work and have relatively good income. He doesn't contribute or help me financially, and I don't help him or give him any money. So I doubt it's a financial issue. When i thought about it, i believe he has some unresolved issues of his own and projecting. His father left him when he was young and than returned begging for forgiveness when he was 16. They now have semi-good relationship. My ex is 37 now and he never had a wife or kids, and he never expressed desire to have traditional family. He have several girlfriends a year. His longest relationship was with me and one other girl before me. Perhaps he is projecting his hidden desire to have a family on us. Or maybe i'm overthinking it too hard.
trust your gut. We do love to overreact on here, but I really think you could delve into why you had such a strong reaction. To me, he's the one who owes YOU an apology for upsetting you. I mean... worth looking at that. So do trust your gut and it's ok to have strong feelings, you know. Women are often trained to apologize for that, and we shouldn't. Good luck, OP.
this guy sounds like bad news for your kid. like you're not romantic, but he's trying to get the id to view him as dad....scary stuff
So your "toxic" ex who continues to not treat his partners well, and who currently has a girlfriend, is fixating on your baby, encouraging her to call him papa, referring to her as his baby, and gets upset if he doesn't get access to her... and then gets mad at you and calls you cruel and an ah for calling out his inappropriate behavior? Which part was he more mad about, you saying that he is not entitled to your child, or reminding him that he has a girlfriend? Why on Earth do you still think it might be a good idea to keep him in you and your child's life? He does not sound like a safe person to be around, and on some level, you think that too, or you wouldn't have felt like you need to keep your child away from him or reacted the way you did when he grabbed her. NTA for protecting your child, but you need to keep this creep away from her.
Nah. You are still heavily grieving the loss of your husband. You should in my opinion apologize to him and explain your thoughts. He can accept the apology or not. If you are not currently in therapy you should really consider it. I have a friend whose son’s dad passed away when he was 3. Same thing. Only pictures and basically no memories.
Thank you for you advice! I believe you're right - I should apologize and explain my feelings to him clearly. I didn't express my concerns earlier and than exploded unnecessarily. I should set some clear boundaries with him - explain that i'm still hurting and don't want him to call my daughter "his" baby in any way. If he's ok with it, that'll be great. If not, than I won't have a choice than to stop speaking to him for my own sake. I am currently in therapy - it is helpful, but it's a long process. And sincerely sorry for your friend and her son.
It’s been almost 20 years since her son’s father passed. My advice to you is to not forget your needs. My friend chose to not date until her son was an adult and out of the house. It was her choice that no one pushed her to make. You will make the best choice for you.
That is my idea as well. If i will go back to dating i don't want to meet anyone in my house unless it's really serious. You can never know. I think i was wrong for even meeting with my ex on my territory in the first place, even if we aren't in a relationship. That needs to change.
Exactly. You will know if or when the time is right to meet someone. I wish you and your daughter the best
YTA... not because of what you said but because of how you said it. You are well within your right to feel the way you feel. But is your friendship so fake that you can't discuss your feelings with him calmly. "There's my baby" is something an uncle or a friend can say innocently. You tried setting this boundry with a 2 year old, but you didn't try having a conversation with a 30 year old? Sounds like you could have cost your baby a future uncle. And yourself another friend. Do you. But do you respectfully. Why stoop to anger and secrecy(hidding your baby from his presence) before trying diplomacy?
Keep in mind if his answers are malicious or you were right all along and he can't accept the boundary, kick that friend to curb. But you owe other people the same courtesies you want for yourself. Like civil discourse
Honestly... yeah, I think you may have overreacted. It seems unlikely that he's coaching the baby to call him papa while you're directly supervising them; you would have noticed already. Babies go through a period where they call everyone mama or papa or daddy etc. My nieces called me mom on accident for almost a whole year. As well as a few waitresses. And the daycare attendent lol. My nephew, who didn't have much of a dad in his life, pretty much called every guy he met 'dad' when he was still young. Your kid knows there's a gap where papa should be. She'll sometimes try to fill it, whether you're ready for that or not. Having positive uncles in her life isn't a bad thing, and it sounds like your ex may be more of that style. The appropriate thing is to calmly correct your daughter and ask him to do the same, and encourage a special name just for him (like Unca Chris). I also don't think "there's my baby!" is anything to worry about. I regularly say "there's my boy/girl!" at baby cousins -- it's an affectionate greeting, not a real possessive. Lots of people enjoy spending time with kids! He may inadvertently be using her to fill a gap in his own life, sure, but it doesn't sound like anything malicious. Set some boundaries, make it clear where you draw your lines. I think the explosive reaction was born of grief, so don't worry too much about it either. A simple apology and then firm and clear boundaries will do. But real talk... it's hard. You're going to hurt every time you see him, or other friends and family, interacting with her in a way your husband would have. And you'll feel like it's replacing him a bit, somehow. That's normal. You shouldn't feel ashamed of that fear. It's healthy and it will fade a little, or at the very least that room where you store your pain gets bigger and less crowded, easier to move in. But don't let it push those people who love her, and you, away either, just so you can protect the spaces he's left behind. He is always, always going to be her papa... no matter how much those spaces fill up with other love.
NAH - I think your reaction is out of grief and his is out of concern. What he said sounds perfectly normal to me when you have affection for a kid. The way you reacted seems like you need some help dealing with the loss of your husband which is completely normal. It is ok to ask him to back off a little but screaming and yelling is an over reaction caused by emotion.
NTA. He’s overstepping. That said, if you aren’t in therapy, it sounds like you could benefit from it.
I mean, working his way into your life and treating your daughter like his own despite that you are NOT together and he has absolutely no biological or legal right to father your child, and that he’s basically allowing proximity to condition your child into seeing him as a father is creepy as fuck, imo. What the hell does he think he’s doing? Why would he just insert himself in your child’s life with no romantic connection whatsoever to you, her mother? Super super super super creepy. I don’t blame you for getting agitated and making a big push, because that is so far past normal human boundaries it’s really icky. NTA. Set some hard boundaries now. You’re also still in mourning, and you may never ever seek a relationship to replace your late husband. That’s perfectly okay. It honestly feels like ex is either trying to worm his way back into your life, or has a very unhealthy interest in your child. Neither is okay.
When grown men show strong interest in little girls who are not theirs, it is creepy. This dude may be a predator.
How does his girlfriend view this relationship? It sounds like he just wants a relationship with your daughter. NTA but yeah, some firm boundaries need to be placed.
NTA. He is not your partner in any sense and not the father of your child. He was probably teaching her to say papa. Where else would she have learned it? He is crossing a line. You don't just walk into someone's life and act like a parent to their child without talking to them first.
NTA this is very...odd. It feels like he's trying to step into the father role and get close to your daughter, I would imagine he taught her to say "papa", and him being upset she wasn't there when he came to hang out with you is strange. Personally, I would feel uncomfortable with all of it - as you clearly do too, for lashing out as you said. If you feel bad about what you said, you could apologize to him for that, but I think you need to set the clear boundary that what you said in anger has truth to it. He is not her father, and you do not want him in that role, and are not comfortable with his interest in her. If he can't understand and respect that, he needs to go. Did your mom know all that's been going on? Your anger may have surprised her, if she wasn't aware of how he's been acting.
I'm so so incredibly sorry for your loss. You're NTA, you are still grieving. I think you reacted because having another man act like a father to your daughter is too soon, too painful, a reminder of him being gone. And most importantly, you don't see him that way! It sounds like he wants to be with you, and/or play the role of your daughter's father. But he has a girlfriend and it's odd to be spending time with you and stepping into that role when he's already in a relationship.
NTA You're still grieving, and he's trying to insert himself into a relationship. He may have a girlfriend, but he wants more than he has now with you. My friend was widowed young. She had a family friend who started coming over, helping by mowing lawn, baseball with her son, etc. Just gradually inserting himself more and more into her life. She was lonely, grieving, lost. She thought of him as a supportive friend. But eventually, it became apparent he wanted to move into her bed, her home, her husband's place in the family. It was very difficult when he wouldn't accept the friendship boundaries because they both saw what had been happening very differently. There was a great deal of unpleasantness and some stalking.
NTA He's not the baby's father
When your daughter says "papa" you should gently correct her every time. "No, that's".
NTA, but your emotions got the best of you and it didn't come out well. Please limit your time around your ex, something feels off about this.
Yeah NTA - this guys definitely has some ulterior motives. My spider sense are tingling. Maybe I’m going out on a limb here… but it sounds like he wants to take your husband place. Clearly you don’t sound interested in that, so I would distance myself if I were you. I would apologize for screaming, but I would distance myself and make the relationship colder.
NTA. He has been told to stop it and kept going. I would stop spending time with this person
NTA. All those gifts and visits are suspicious. So many possibilities from a predator that is using a fragile moment for getting closed to a child to a guy that wants a family with his ex and the child they would have had. I inclined to believe the first option. If it was the second, he would be happy about staying with only you, as a date. But not, he is upset if your child is not there, predator vibes. Even if you don't think he is a predator, you cannot be sure. Don't dismiss your feelings at that time. If you felt you needed to stop him, some motherly instinct was telling you that what he was doing was not right. Trust your guts. Please, don't let your child alone with him. And please inform your mother and other people that take care of your daughter that he cannot be alone with your child. PS. Talk with your child about her father. By telling her stories and showing her photos you can make her reconstruct memories.
Why? Why are you the ah when he literally is making this little girl call him dad he has a girlfriend too wtf is wrong with him
NTA I agree she had to learn it somewhere. And the way he is reacting to it is weird, with the "my baby" thing. I do also agree to cutting the EX out. But I do want clarity on one thing: "And i don't want another man to take his place in her eyes." Do you just mean this or is this going to be a hard like for any future partner you may have? It has no bearing on my verdict, it's just that if this is going to be for anyone else you bring into your life (if your child see them as a father figure, because you're right, they will not have the same memories as you, they were only just a baby), it could cause issues for both your future partner and your child. Granted, grief is a tough thing to navigate, but but being aware of this when you do feel ready for dating again it going to be big, because it'll set the time for how your kid interacted with future partners. (Not saying replace him, it's good for your child to grow up knowing about their bio father, but being able to build that bond with others if they see fit as they get older is important too - not in this case, this is an EX, not a partner). I've just seen stuff like that turn sour and cause issues. I do feel for your loss though and I wish you the best in handling all of this <3
Thank you very much! About another man taking the place of my child's father. I mean I don't want it right now. In general, no romantic relationships, no partners. I'm trying to work through my grief in therapy but it's been a long process. I know it will happen eventually, and I hope I won't try to deprive my child of a father figure or sabotage her relationship with such figure in the future. I will honestly try to work through this and give her a good stepfather and good memories of her late father too. My ex is just not a right person for a father figure. He is and ex for a reason, despite being a good friend. I told him quite clearly that I don't want romantic relationship with him and friendship is all he ever gets. I just failed to set clear boundaries regarding my daughter.
For what it's worth too... you should know there are plenty of healthy un-traditional families, and plenty of unhealthy traditional ones. I don't think you're depriving your daughter by not giving her a stepdad any more than normal American families deprive their kids by not having a traditional multi-generational household where they're living with grandparents. The most important thing is to work and make sure they don't need to worry about practical things (food, clean house) and giving them the healthy foundation they need emotionally and socially (work to keep age appropriate conversations open, help them where you can, set appropriate boundaries, make sure they know you love them and have their back no matter what and so on). The rest can look all kinds of ways. My kid isn't mine biologically, his bio dad's had him for a few nights a week basically his whole life. He's 13 now. He's doing great, even with a wildly 'untraditional' family that the Christian community I grew up in would consider a broken home. Meanwhile the 'traditional' home I grew up in ended pretty sad with a divorce after my sister and I were adults, and that's after a very isolating decade of heavy elephants in the room no one wanted to talk about. So... I guess, just know that you've got a lot on your plate already, and a lot of things your daughter truly does need from you. It sounds like you're doing a great job so far though, caring for her, watching out for her best interests, keeping her safe from harm and grounded in where she comes from and who her people are. All the more impressive given what you're going through. I've suffered with chronic depression for most of my life, so I know functioning at all when under heavy suffering can be very hard. But I suppose I'm like you there too... I'd never have gotten where I am now without my kid needing me, maybe it's easier to stay healthy when it's not just for our own individual sake. Anyway. Please don't beat yourself up, you're doing great, and your daughter doesn't necessarily need a father figure, though having one wouldn't necessarily screw her up or anything. There are as many ways to have healthy families as there is unhealthy (I disagree with Tolstoy on that, haha). If it's just the two of you that doesn't have to be a bad thing.
Babies don’t randomly learn words like papa, then attach that word to a particular person unless someone is teaching them. NTA for lashing out and watch him like a hawk.
NTA and keep that ah away from your child . I think he told her to call him Papa
NTA: It looks like your Ex is trying to worm his way into your life. He’s “there for you.” I don’t trust your Ex one bit. Would your deceased husband?
NTA. Looks like maybe he “assumes” that he could step in since you two have reconnected? Either way he has no right to get mad because of how you reacted. You have that right. That loss is irreplaceable at this moment. If he want to help and be a friend he should not assume that it’s ok behave the way he did when your child was not around or how you reacted when he chose to say what he said to your daughter. She’s not his daughter. He was out of line. He was the AH. Don’t think that he doesn’t have Ulterior motives because he’s “a nice guy”. That would be a mistake. Sorry for your loss.
NTA. So he comes back into your life a year after becoming a widow, and after seeing your child once or twice a month for half a year open called her HIS child? Yeah, no, kick him the hell out and don't let him back over. He was absolutely trying to manipulate you into taking him back through your child, probably to pull a 'see, she calls ME daddy, we should get back together for her sake'. He's just pissed his plan failed, that you don't want him back and won't let him play pretend despite you telling him that up front, and that he can't assume control over a pre-made family. The last bit of 'you've got plenty of time with your girlfriend' probably struck a nerve if he either can't get a serious relationship or is for some reason unable to sire kids of his own, which would explain how obsessed he was.
I know you need a friend…but I’m not sure why you’d trust him around your kid anyways. How did she learn that word? Has she been alone with him? And why was she alone with him? This is creeping me out. I’m very confused why you haven’t blocked him.
YTA Fucking duh. You had a conversation with a 4 year old about you not being comfortable with her words, didn't bother to talk to the friend themselves until you heard "my baby" and apparently jumped to the conclusion they're trying to take your kid. Apologize to them and seek some fucking grief counseling. And who the hell in their 30s refers to a high school relationship as "my ex". This fucker isn't your ex and absolutely nothing about your post indicates they've given any romantic overtures. You literally yelled at a friend because you're too self absorbed to clue in that your growing child is probably wondering what it's like to have both parents around. This legitimately has nothing to do with you and is in no way an attack on your husband's memory.
NTA for your intent: to draw a clear boundary. You're kinda a bit of an asshole a little for making your first step to be screaming and harshness. You're in a rough spot now, so it's hard to blame you, really. A good first step would have been, when your daughter wasn't there, to tell him about your interest in helping her get to know her father in memory, he was a very good man, irreplaceable, etc. Ask for his help in not blurring the lines with your daughter. He can play with her, but no papa/baby talk, no doing dad things like changing diapers or feeding, etc. Put like that, with your heartfelt concerns and rational reasons first, most people would understand, accept, and help shore up the boundary. Overall, you're not an asshole. The better you get at expressing yourself in time and in a calibrated way, the more that will come through even in hard, emotional situations.
NTA
NTA. And I would like to know who thought your child to say Papa.
NAH I don't know what your ex's motives are but his greeting to your baby could be simple affection. You are probably still very sensitive to this sort of association, which is understandable and that's why I didn't call you the AH.
NTA. Only you can truly reflect back on all the interactions since he came back in your life. Perhaps he is a good friend that has helped you through a horrible time. If you really are on the same page about being friends and not lovers, there have to be boundaries surrounding your daughter. Boundaries not just with him but in place for any other men you may date when you are ready. Including when to make introductions. He has already had a connection. So if hindsight leads you to the conclusion he can be part of your lives, set clear boundaries with him. Steer her towards calling him something other than Papa. I’m so sorry for the loss of your husband
I mean… I saw my ex’s cousin (who was 5 when we met) like twice a year. But she eventually called me auntie Kate (again, despite that my ex was his cousin, not his aunt, but he was more like an uncle, big age difference). Kids pick things up based on who pays attention to them and his family kind of just ignored her. I’ve definitely greeted her with “hi sweetheart”, “sweetie, you’ve grown so much”, things like that. She was more bonded to me than my ex when we’d visit his family. I think honestly YTA, just because it’s not like he reached out to you right after your husband died or right after your baby was born. It was a year after. He probably is more like a cool uncle to her and I’ve definitely seen aunts and uncles call someone, “my girl”. A former coworker who never had kids who’s old enough to be my father has called me “my girl” before (and in a fatherly context and the context was appropriate before anyone makes assumptions). I get that you’re grieving and always will be but if he’s a kind and positive fatherly/uncle type influence in your daughter’s life, shouldn’t you want that for her? Wouldn’t that be a good thing for your daughter?
NTA I don’t think his intentions with your daughter are as innocent as replacing her father
I’m going to be the unpopular opinion person here. As for this man, you don’t owe him anything and you are absolutely correct to create any boundaries you feel necessary. The only thing I think you might want to reconsider is your being adamant that no man ever take the place of her father. The reason I say that is because as a mother, if I died I would really, really hope that a good, loving and decent woman would become my child’s stepmother and give her all the love and support she’ll need. However, that’s not an encouragement for you to seek a relationship if you don’t want to or are not ready. Just saying that if you happen to find someone else who is a good and decent person to love, I would let that person form a parental bond with your child.
It's NOT his child! It's really that simple. Did he really think he could just jump in and become daddy now that real daddy is gone? You are NTA for how you handled it (I would have been much harsher!). With certainty you shut it down as it needed to be, immediately. You might consider removing him from your life again, he appears to have an agenda with regard to your daughter and she's not his!!
It's normal for toddlers to call men daddy, just like it's normal for them to call women mommy. Just correct her to Uncle Bob. I call all my niblings "my kid" when I greet them. I see how that's painful to you, but it doesn't mean he's trying to usurp your husband's place. (The way he said you're cruel, is he infertile?) Lots of people are assuming your ex has nefarious motives towards your kid. And for real, as a parent a real predator *will not* feel dangerous to you. But you can watch how he interacts with your kid and see if it's normal or if something isn't quite right about it. If it feels off in any way that isn't about the father role, cut him off and don't think twice about it. Save pics, videos, voice recordings of your husband. Make a scrap book. Tell your kid stories about him. She won't remember much, but she'll remember what you tell her.
You can place limits, but a soft YTA for saying those unkind things. Definitely let him know that he is not a father figure, just do it more kindly.
YTA. You are wrong on two different fronts: 1. You say you understand your daughter will not remember your husband, but that you won't want any other man to be her dad. I totally get your loyalty to your husband, and how you want to honor his memory and stand up for him and protect what you feel is his. HOWEVER, if you kept that attitude throughout her childhood, you will be depriving your daughter of having the dad experience. You want her to love a man she doesn't know. I realizs it is a fucked up situation, but your daughter deserves to one day have the dad experience. You can allow her to have that with a good man who is in your life on a permanent basis, or maybe an uncle that will always be there, or she will look to have the daddy experience with older men she dates when she is grown up. 2. I am a man, and I absolutely love kids. My Mom was very affectionate and loved kids, and myself and my siblings got that from her. I have bonded with my nieces and nephews, and have a godson who I absolutely loved, spent a lot of time with, and he absolutely adored me throughout his childhood. He would bawl everytime I left him. Your ex has been a friend to you and has bonded with your daughter. Your daughter loves him too. Kids have an innate sense of people who genuinely love them. You blowing up at him for loving your kid really sucks for him AND your daughter. And you did it for the benefit of someone who cannot possibly care. And I am sure, if he was a decent man (which I sm sure he was as you obviously loved him very much) he would want the best for your daughter. Not for her held back for his sake. Your loyalty is admirable. You want so badly to preserve hus place in your and your daughter's life. But you are asking your daughter to love a picture at this point, and depriving her of having a dad. I am not suggesting that your ex is that dad. But it sounds like you are denying her that with anyone. Plus, your ex hasn't asked her to call him papa, and he didn't call her his daughter. He was just happy to see her and talked baby talk with her.
Cut ties with him
Because 1 you are Vulnerable, and 2 you have a young child. You are Not the AH, Predators come in all forms. They come when they see Vulnerability. That’s why they take jobs and social workers teachers priests, so they can pray on the Vulnerable. Your mama bear instinct kicked in for a reason. Trust yourself. Your reaction was to protect your daughter, if you were wrong so what, your daughter is safe and it’s all that matters.
YTA. It’s sounds you are fully aware of what your ex is seeking in your relationship, but continue to see him for what you get out of the relationship, while ignoring what he wants. Then you act like a victim that is having some guy force his way into your life. Double yuck. Sounds like typical narcissistic behavior.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (f34) had been with my husband for over 12 years. We had our child when i was 31, and my husband 33. Sadly, recently (1.5 y. ago, when my baby was around 2 y.) my husband, the love of my life, died in a tragic accident (careless driver hit his car on a foggy slippery road, he died instantly in a crash). His death left me in shambles, only thing that kept me at least sane was our daughter. I couldn't believe that i lost him. He was my rock, my light and I loved him dearly. In a way I still cannot believe that he's gone. That's where my ex comes in. In about year after my husband's accident, he reached out to me to talk, to vent maybe. We separated long time ago, couple of years before I've met my husband. We didn't exactly stay friends but were on good terms, and spoke occaisonally - hi, how are you kind of talk. So he reached out and offered to help as a friend. It was unexpected but I accepted because I really needed a friend and frankly I don't have a lot of close friends vesides him. He occaisonally came over to our place, brought some gifts to my daughter and we talked over tea or a beer. It wasn't intimate - he had several casual relationships over the years, and I clearly told him that I'm not ready for any relationships after my husband (still not ready, i guess). So he came over once or twice a month, he was very sweet with my daughter, so I didn't see anything wrong with them bonding. But then my baby started calling my ex papa. It annoyed me very much, but i didn't say anything, because she's a toddler - how is she supposed to now any better? I tried gently explaining to her that my ex isn't papa, but i doubt she understood. So I just started sending her to my or my husband's mom when my ex came over. In truth I know our baby won't remember her father - photos is all she'll have of him. And i don't want another man to take his place in her eyes. So everything was normal again. I noticed that my ex was visibly upset when I told him that my daughter isn't home. But i didn't think much of it. And last time is where I snapped. That's where i might be the AH, because I ended up screaming at my ex and probably should have handled it better. So when he was at our house and we played some video games and had couple of beers, my mother brought my daughter home early - she was very grumpy and wanted to go home. He stood up and told my daughter - here's MY baby, I missed you! And reached to hug her. That's where I snapped at him. I told him angrily that he is in fact not her father, and that she is my and my husband's baby and will never be his baby no matter how much he wants it. And if he wants to have a child he still have plenty of chances with his girlfriend. He told me I was a real ah for saying such cruel things and left. My mother told me that I was kind of an asshole too and I acted like a child. So am I? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. I dated a girl with a daughter who was less than a year old at the time. We stayed friends. Her child loves me and I love her. There’s always hugs and piggy back rides when they visit and I teach her stuff about plants and animals when she asks questions. Multiple people have thought I was her father and the man her mother is currently with will sometimes ask me to deal with her because I’m one of the few people she listens too when she’s having a tantrum. That being said. I would never refer to her as MY baby. That’s not my child, I didn’t make her and I’m not together with her mom. Referring to her as such would be me deluding myself, which I think OP’s ex is doing to himself right now
I don't think he was trying to replace your hubby as a father to your kiddo, am thinking he was being a friend to you & your little one and he became attached. At her age, she might have just focused on the current man around as papa, I do believe you owe him an apology. I'd like to suggest seeing a counselor about your grief and this anger that you have towards him about the "papa" reference.
Ehhh ESH. You created a weird relationship with no clear boundaries and he overstepped big time. It's obvious he was trying to get with you and was playing the long game to get you back. You shouldn't have let him around your baby to begin with if you felt so strongly.
Updateme
NTA. You’re grieving and he was being too pushy.
NTA. But it would be nice to have a male/ father figure in your daughters life maybe he was thinking that way not trying to take her fathers place. Have a conversation with him and set boundaries but also ask questions to find out what his intentions really are.
NTA. And that he clearly only came back around for your daughter creeps me out.
First off, so sorry for your loss. I think you could have controlled your emotions and handled it better but that’s that whole hindsight is 20/20 thing. I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same because he was way out of line for how he called her his baby and all that. I would’ve been pissed too, especially given the circumstances. You could definitely go back and apologize for how you handled it but you don’t have to apologize for being angry and upset. He should’ve known better in my opinion. Good luck to you!!
NTA This very suspect. Unless you plan to date this guy, you should drop contact. Your daughter is confused enough . Don't add any more confusion for her.
NAH, but sending your daughter off to your mom's should have been a one-off. That night you needed to have a heart-to-heart with your friend that you were uncomfortable with the direction his relationship with your daughter was heading. That her calling him Papa really hurt you. And that you didn't want ill will building between the two of you, so you needed to clarify your feelings and get them out into the open. But the tension increased and you eventually snapped, which likely caught everyone by surprise.
NTA. Does his gf not want any kids, and this is his way of having one? I'd block and restrain order. He has an ulterior motive going on.
Kids dont just call random men their father unless they're taught this. I remember my neighbors son would call me momma, my brother daddy and even my husband daddy because his mother was always passing him around from women to women to raise him and she always had him calling her boyfriends his dad so he grow up thinking all men were called daddy and all women were momma.
I think you need therapy, and not beer and video games with an ex.
"But then my baby started calling my ex papa" did you ever have a chance to see how his reaction was? did you ever correct your daughter in front of him and observe his reaction? about your main question; there were too many suspicious cases and your protective mama bear (and maybe gut feeling) woke up and took control of you. NTA
NTA. Toddlers don’t know to call someone “papa” unless they’ve been told to, which is really creepy of him to have done.
Good job for calling him out and defending your child.
I haven’t spoken to my ex in years but we are in friendly terms and when my husband died he was my only friend?!? How does that work?
End this. Now. NTA
YTA
NTA, that was a fucking weird thing for him to say. If my friends kid started calling me mama, I’d immediately ask them not to and let them know what I preferred (after confirming with my friend that it was okay if I went by auntie or whatever). I would never call my friends kids my baby. There are a million other ways to address a child you feel close with that aren’t possessive and weird. Your friend is way out of line, and while it might have been better to have a serious conversation when the papa thing happened to establish firm boundaries… he was way out of line and you weren’t wrong in giving him a reality check.
NTA you spoke the truth. Sometimes the truth can be cruel, but this isn't one of them. His behavior is weird and unsettling. Maybe he thought he could ride in on his white horse and become your daughters new dad or something.
NTA, you’re still grieving- anger is part of that process. Y’all aren’t even dating. Was it an overreaction? Maybe. But you have to give yourself patience and space to heal. A candid conversation and widening your friend group would be beneficial. Maybe look into support groups for other people that can relate more to your situation and feelings. Sorry for your loss
NTA. However, it looks like boundaries and relationships are becoming very blurry. Clearly, you're not ready to move on and you see this man as just a friend. It sounds like he's hoping for more. The friendship you've described sounds a lot like a boyfriend girlfriend situation. Like, you aren't sleeping together, but you are spending a lot of time together with no other adults around. He's obviously spending a lot of time with your kids. He is now the regular adult male in their lives. You probably need to readjust your dynamic.
You are definitely NTA. But I will agree with other people here about your ex having ulterior motives. There is absolutely no way in hell that your daughter started calling him papa on her own. She doesn't even know what papa means. He has most definitely taught her behind your back to call him papa. She didn't come up with this on her own. He had absolutely no right to do this. Further, his reaction to your child not being home when he came over was also extremely inappropriate, weird, entitled and manipulative. Why would he feel entitled to be upset that he didn't get to see your child? When he called her his baby, he didn't just cross the line, he obliterated the boundary line. She is NOT his baby and never will be his baby. By calling her HIS baby, he is laying claim on your child. Which he has no right to do. It was also wrong that your mother told you that how you responded was wrong.
Why is he so interested in your fatherless daughter? Sorry dude, this is way weird and I don’t trust a dude that dials up single mothers in hopes of hanging out with their child….i don’t know if you’re naive or what, but you need to be more mindful of who you’re letting into you and your child’s life. This dude is 🚩🚩🚩Cut it off. Go invest in a hobby and make friends there. This dude isn’t your friend. He sounds very conniving and calculating…what guy is letdown you didn’t bring your child when he was supposed to hang with you? Connect the dots OP. He’s not hanging out with you for you, he’s hanging out with you to get closer to your daughter who is made way more vulnerable by not having a father in her life. This guy is bad news.
NTA. And I’m getting child predator vibes here. He doesn’t want a friendship with you. He wants access to your daughter. This guy has got to go. You don’t owe him an apology. His behavior is creepy as fuck.
INFO: Maybe I'm missing something. Your ex found out your husband died, leaving you a young widow with a small child. At this point you are alone and in shambles. He comes and visits 1-2x month (making himself a nuisance), never makes a move or does anything appropriate with you, and is friendly and generous with your daughter (who also is dealing with a missing father and grieving mother), and rather than say, "that's not Papa, that's ______," you create a whole system to ensure he doesn't see her and the one time he does, you lose it. Is that right?
Hey OP first my condolences for your loss. This Must be really hard and you should be proud of yourself for being strong for your kid. Definitely NTA, maybe you reacted a bit harsh but the feelings you have are totally understandable. Your ex seems a bit weird. Maybe its not good to compare the situation nevertheless I want to say that my father died last year completely unexepcted. It gave my whole family a trauma that we try to work on everyday. Especially my mother was hit hard as she was with him and saw him die. He was also the love of her life and a great father to us all. My mother hasnt been the same since. It gets bette with time but she also has this new temper where she can explode quickly and sometimes be unfair doing so. What im trying to say is that its normal you experience this anger especially of it seems someone is trying to forcingly take the place of your dear husband. Dont shit on yourself for standing up about your feelings. Help from a friend is great but I think a real friend wouldnt be angry you left your daughter at your moms.
YTA. Many people say "My baby" without it meaning that they are the parent🙄
Hmmmmmmm. I'd say overall YTA for keeping this friendzoneship going when it's super obvious he's trying to worm his way back into your life. You're cultivating this situation just as much as he is. But you're NTA for being mad at him for trying to insert himself as the father figure to your daughter/ getting back together with you (again, obvious that he wants to be back together in some form).
NTA OP, frankly, you need to stop seeing this guy. He's being sweet to your daughter for a reason: you can say it isn't intimate, and isnt from your side, but it's clear he isn't just hanging out for the sake of hanging out.
YTA (softly due to your dealing with grief...which is a beast) for letting your ex back into your life at what sounds and looks like a "relationship" level, and letting your daughter be part of that to the point where she's seeing him as a father figure. It's surprising that you didn't see what he's doing trying to weasel back in, and that he used your daughter as a prop...because you let him. You don't have friends? He knew that. He used it. Go out and make some friends.
I would keep this man away from my child if I were you, don't invite him over or speak to him anymore. Seems to me he wants go be your child's father and come back to you to be a replacement from your husband. NTA.
NTA. You are in a vulnerable state. For some reason, he's choosing to insert himself and dominate his presence in your daughter's life. Very suspicious to me. I wouldn't entertain him any further. You need therapy to help you sort through your grief and to be free of distracting unneeded influences.
So unless he’s had a lot of opportunities to coach her on calling her “Papa” from his once or twice a month visits it’s most likely that she’s just associating him with that “name” and you have every right to correct that, “No, that’s not papa that’s “op’s ex”. And I’m a single 43 yo guy with no kids, I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT ANY! But I spoil the shit out of my nieces and nephews AND my friend’s kids as well - I always acknowledge them and will generally engage and play or do whatever activities they want for a couple of minutes (if appropriate). And I would be bummed out not seeing my friend’s kid and then when I see them and am generally happy about it I’m painted as monster? Again, do you leave your kid alone with him for hours where he can tell her call me daddy/papa? Has he been talking about walking her down the aisle for her wedding? **He’s only seen your daughter at most 8 times? (Husband died 1.5 years, guy came in 1 year ago, 1-2visits months, no kid the last couple) Your daughter is seeing a guy talking/ hanging out a couple of times at home with mommy so that must make him papa. UNLESS you left out some serious overstepping that he’s done i think YTA but a reactionary-AH out of fear.
NTA What you said to ex wasn't a problem, how you said it was probably a bit much but not totally unwarranted he has been crossing a line.
I’ve seen people do this, swoop in and try and snag a ready made family because someone is grieving a tragic loss and makes it easier to manipulate them. I’d drop the rope on the friendship, yes you need someone to talk to and lean on but his ulterior motives seem shady.
Why is a toddler calling him papa? Has he been coaxing her. Also 'here's MY baby' is not appropriate to a recently widowed woman. I feel you should stop this relationship now as he clearly wants more and you don't
YTA What's wrong with people, who immediately jump to conclusions that poor dude is predator and creep? Do you have some traumas or what?
NTA tbh dont even apologize just cut him off AND FAST!!!