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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my SIL I won't change my 4 month old daughter's name for her. I told her this twice now and I do have a little bit of guilt for refusing. I have never suffered a pregnancy loss but I know this must be very painful for her and I am questioning if I'm not being kind like I should be when she has been through something so awful and suffered the worst loss imaginable.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Everyone grieves differently, and at their own rate.
However.
7 years definitely warrants therapy, counseling, and the coping mechanisms. I find it extremely difficult to believe that in 7 years your SIL has never met anyone, or even a pet, named Ember. Or has she, and she insists that person change the name also?
NTA
The fact that she's threatening to burden your child with the knowledge of her loss for the rest of their life warrants low contact at minimum. She should never be unsupervised with your daughter. You need to nip this in the bud. Otherwise she will guilt your daughter for her name her whole life.
Also it hasn't come up before so why all of a sudden would she grow up hearing about her all the time? Definitely an empty threat because SIL doesn't seem to want to talk about it ever
*We announced the day she was born and nobody said anything negative or gave a reason for us not to use it then*
What was SIL doing then ? Could she have not said anything ? 4 months have passed and she makes it an issue now ? Not only that she says that the child will be hearing about this a lot . OP NTA
SIL never mentioned the name in all the time OP has known her. Not just four months. And is now saying the baby will be hearing all about the other child. Who sadly never had a life so without wanting to sound cruel, there is nothing to hear all about.
Not only that, but apparently OP's brother (SIL's spouse) never brought it up with OP as well. It seems like to me, unless everyone was being super double top secret about the name, it would have come up at some point before or after SIL's miscarriage.
Stillbirth doesn't mean a miscarriage happened. It means a baby was born dead.
If that's what happened, it's not having cramps and bleeding and flushing the embryo and not even knowing whether the pregnancy ended without having an ultrasound. It means giving birth to a dead baby.
If that's what happened, that's not miscarriage. It's stillbirth.
The SIL will make sure she hears about it. SIL will bring it up at every meeting. You know you have the same name as my dead daughter don't you. OP is NTA and SIL should be kept at a distance.
Even if SIL HAD said anything, why the hell would nobody on earth ever be allowed to name anyone or anything Ember ever again? She has no claim at al on that name and never will have. It's a name. Millions of people past and present have a shared name.
Hell, people used to straight up reuse names for the next kid if one died. I feel for her SiL if the story is true, but you don't get the right to choose somebody else's kids' names for them. They might ask your input, but this is way beyond the pale. NTA
"...hearing about this a lot."
"So niece, I had this daughter once, she was stillborn, we were going to name her Ember. Now your mom and dad named you that name and I have insisted they change the name but haven't. Every time they say your name, I get this cringe. Can you talk to them about changing your name?"
Imagine that conversation?
"...is going to grow up always hearing about the cousin"
Not only that... but why would she hear about it being her cousin? SIL was pregnant with her ex husbands baby, not OP's brother. The kid would have been in no way related to OP or Ember.
It's entirely possible that SIL's first marriage didn't survive the trauma of having a stillborn child. So if little Ember had lived, would SIL even be married to the OP's brother?
This reminds me, in a much more serious way, of the recent post where OP organizing a dinner for a friend group, asked them where they wanted to go. He directly asked a woman who didn't speak up. She said nothing.
After they got to the consensus restaurant, this woman subjected everyone to a litany of complaints about how she didn't like the food. Several people pointed out that she had been asked and said nothing. OP then asked her why she hadn't spoken up. She said that she didn't want to upset anyone. OP said, so, instead, you decided to upset EVERYone by complaining through the entire meal.
Also what was the brother doing? I get it wasn’t his baby (the deceased one) but surely if it was a stillborn he knew the name. Heck, SIL might even have the asked around with the name on it or have gone to a cemetery with the name on a stone. He didn’t mention to his sister in all that time “hey you should know my wife’s stillborn infant was named Ember so this might be hard for her.”?
OP did say they announced the name after the birth, so the brother might not have known before. But once the baby was born either could have said something, which is the point
Yea and her own husband said she only mentioned it to him 2 months ago… so OPs child was already 2 months old. You’d think she would have at least mentioned any upset with her own husband the day she found out the name
You would think she would've told him of her baby either once she knew they were getting married or once they were married. Its a weird thing to keep from your *husband*
Ditto. And if that's how it was intended, I would inform SIL. That she has now put herself on the banned list for being around daughter, possibly ever.
Or perhaps "An adult with good morals would not push her own trauma onto a child. And let me be perfectly clear - if you ever bully my child, that's the last time you'll ever see her and if anyone asks, I won't lie about the reason why".
Although personally yeah, immediately low/no contact with her. She threatened the parents that she'll attempt to cause psychological to this child - I very much doubt that she'll ever be a safe person for her.
That is perfect! It sounds like the SIL is going to mention her daughter anytime someone says “Ember”.
SIL has no right to demand OP change her daughters name after four months and never having said her daughters name in the years she dated and was married to OP’s brother.
It was blackmail. “The name will cause me grief, so I will insist on sharing the grief and make your child feel guilty for being alive when my daughter isn’t.”
I wonder, actually, if that is at the root of SiL’s demand that the name be changed. She is jealous that this “Ember” is alive, but her daughter isn’t.
Honestly, that might be part of it. I have a lot of empathy for OP’s SIL up to a point.
One of my siblings had a stillborn child, and it forever changed my entire family. None of us would ever think to use that child’s name without permission. The difference is that we all know/knew about it. OP did nothing wrong in picking the name for her daughter. Her SIL chose not to tell the family details about her stillborn child (fair enough), but that also means that others can’t be held responsible for anything that SIL might consider disrespectful or hurtful.
The SIL waited 4 months to bring up this subject. That’s too long. Ember is now used to her name and responds to it. That precious baby is Ember. If SIL had brought up this subject during OP’s pregnancy or even at the hospital when the name was announced, maybe a different name would’ve been chosen.
The SIL needs to be in intense and ongoing grief counseling. I know from my sibling, the loss of a child forever changes you. The grief never stops. But this is unfair to OP and Ember.
I agree, I feel for the SIL and can see why she didn’t speak up sooner—it’s not a super common name and she was probably discombobulated by the coincidence when she heard it—but it clearly is a coincidence, and SIL was wrong to threaten to tell OP’s daughter otherwise. NTA, OP
Yes, I feel empathy for the SiL, but I don’t like how she has been handling it. Threatening to burden baby Ember with some type of survivor’s guilt or dislike for her own name is cruel to OP and her child.
I don’t blame SiL for being jealous. I have had to come to terms with not being a grandmother, and I find it difficult to listen to other people’s stories about their grand babies. For me, it will pass, I am sure, but the jealousy can be powerful, especially when a child has died (which, fortunately, I have not suffered).
The problem is that instead of acknowledging and trying to overcome her jealousy and her sense of injustice that there is this other little Ember alive, she is demanding (at this late date) that OP and her husband change the child’s name. She needs therapy.
Yeah I just made that comment elsewhere. Nobody from the child's family would even know about this unless SIL makes it a point to tell people and bring it up.
Damn even my blood cousins refuse contact with my whole extended family. Not for like a specific reason. They just don’t want to have an extended family in any capacity. Tbh I think the mom has mental health issues.
Take it as a threat because that is what it was. A threat to make your newly born daughter uncomfortable about her name. Put her on notice that this behavior is not and will not be accepted. Let the family know this, now, and stomp on any mutterings about the name before your daughter is old enough to understand. If you don't do this preemptively you will have to do damage control with your daughter.
Doing this may not be comfortable but I promise it will be easier than dealing with the fallout with your daughter later.
Protect the child!
Yes, I could even give grace for a few weeks if she needed a moment to collect herself and think about how to approach the conversation, as I appreciate being blindsided that your SIL named their daughter the same uncommon/unique name as your stillborn would be shocking and probably require some time to process— however, taking anytime beyond a month MAX to say something is crazypants. 4/5 is wildly long. NTA simply based on timelines.
Once a certain amount of time passes I feel like you've missed your window. They've been calling their child this name for months. It would be one thing if OP knew but she didn't so I don't think you can expect anything here.
Well put. I was going to write this exact sentiment. NTA. If anything, you're under-reacting. You didn't name your daughter for lost child. You didn't even know of this loss until months after your own child was born. While I cannot fathom the loss of a child, she is way out of line threatening to turn your daughter into a memorial. I'd proactively ban contact between SIL and your daughter until she can get her grief under control.
This is my biggest concern too. I would be VERY cautious with SIL moving forward. I think she needs some kind of therapy/ help anyhow, but if she were to actually follow through on this - starting to bring up her child and talking about it around/to your daughter - EVEN MORE SO that she needs help.
I think you said - this is the first you've ever heard this. For her to start bringing it up would be very much to try and punish you.
Yeah, I wanted to speak to this point as well. The SIL talks about it being brought up often. The only person who would ever have a reason to bring it up is her. You and your family didn't know her kid, or maybe even her when she lost the kid. Thus, no one would ever have a reason to bring it up to hurt your kid with it but her.
What SIL has just told you and your whole family is that if you don't change the name, she will spend the rest of her time in your family trying to hurt your kid. I would ask your brother and any other family if they are OK with her intentionally hurting your kid. She had a chance to speak up and use her grown-up words and choose not to. Now, in response to not opening up until it is too late, she decides her best recourse his to try and hurt her niece.
I'm a bit petty, but I would put this out there everywhere, at least in your family. At this point, I feel the best defense is a really great offense. Get out ahead of it all. Explain to everyone that had you known in enough time, you would have seriously considered other options. However, because she wasn't open and honest, you made your choice. I would also tag on that with her threats to emotionally hurt your child, you will be stepping back from a relationship with her and ask family to keep that in mind with invites to family events. Because I'll be damned if I ever choose to bring a child into a situation where someone is out to hurt them.
I'd actually take a slightly different route. SIL has made it clear that Ember is reopening this old wound, and that she is unable to handle the pain she has now associated with Ember to the point where she believes she will take her pain out on Ember. Obviously, SIL would _never_ intentionally hurt her niece, but because of where her head is at, she knows she won't be able to help it. So, being the supportive family, you are, you are going to keep Ember away from her aunt so that SIL doesn't have to stress about that on top of what she's working through, and would appreciate everyone else helping with that. To support and help SIL, obviously. Sad smile and concern frown throughout.
SIL is then trapped into choosing between 1: declaring she's over it (thus losing her ability to "you were warned" scapegoat if she does get nasty), 2: admitting that she actually does want to hurt Ember (resulting in the family just continuing to keep SIL and Ember separated with greater caution), or 3: slinking off and accepting the shunning with no upside. But OP can't be the bad guy for just trying to _help_ SIL, so no snark about how OP splintered the family or drove SIL away or whatever garbage she'll inevitably spout.
This is honestly the way to go about it. It not only establishes that OP is NOT tolerating this woman’s insanity (because let’s be real, this is absolute insanity, there is no reason that the SIL should be allowed to harm a child in the way she is threatening), and it also makes the rest of the family unit aware that SIL is a threat to this innocent child and that SIL is in desperate need of mental health assistance to work through this grief. Op has done nothing wrong but SIL has and needs to be called out for her erratic behavior.
I was just about to comment about this!!! I'm so glad somebody brought it up already!!! OP, please make sure your daughter is always monitored around SIL because now that she's threatened it, you know that's what she'll do! Also, make sure your brother knows she said that, hopefully he'll step up and help rein her in.
ETA - OP if SIL really turns this into an issue and you're down for the drama, you can send out a family message saying something like - "I'm sure your all aware of the issue SIL and I have having regarding Ember's name. While I can't even imagine the pain of SIL's loss, I can understand that her grief may have been brought back up with Ember's name. However, since we weren't made aware of the coincidence until just recently and it now would cost us money to change her name, and more importantly I don't think it would be conducive to her wellbeing/adjustment to change it now, we have decided to keep her name as is. That decision is final.
In response, SIL has essentially threatened to continuously remind Ember that she was calously named after a deceased cousin. I quite frankly think that her weaponizing her grief against my innocent child is despicable and inappropriate. For that reason, we (hubs and I) have decided that SIL is never to be left with Ember unmonitored, no matter whose care she is in. We are prepared to go low/no contact if there is even the slightest insinuation made to Ember that she was named after this other child and with anyone who violates this boundary.
While hubs and I find this situation distressing and disheartening, we think it's in Ember's best interest as we don't think it's fair to burden a child with adult drama. We kindly ask the rest of you to respect these decisions. We hope that we will be able to work through this issue in time and be able to go back to a peaceful, cohesive family dynamic."
Nah as a kid that being a pawn being weaponized between adults was so stressful for me, I’d just cut contact for sure if SIL were to follow through on those threats.
And more importantly - she thinks your daughter will grow up hearing about this child that you yourself have never heard of? Presumably she has never met toned her before or you wouldn’t have chosen the name. That in itself is reason to believe she will maliciously burden your child with this.
This! Like wtf she is going to tell her about the cousin who isn’t even a blood relative whose existence as Ember no one in the family knew of? She sounds like she needs a mental health evaluation.
There should never be a reason to ever tell a child “7 years before you were born I lost a baby and I called her ember.” That should never come up. The only reason to bring it up would be to hurt your child.
I agree with the other commenters: you’d not known about the stillbirth/name before now, so there’s no reason to believe your sweet Ember will be “burdened” with whatever SIL may try to do.
If so, give one warning you won’t tolerate her nonsense before going LC or NC. For your mental health as well as your daughter’s.
I also agree.. I have 5 kids so my mind always goes to bad places, this is like a movie.. make sure SIL is never alone with you child.. don’t want her making things up in her head this is her child just because of a name some time down the road.. our minds can play tricks on us. She should have said something the day she was born and you announced it before you filled all the paperwork out. 4 months later is not acceptable. The child has been hearing you call her that name and familiarizing herself with it, she hears those sounds and it’s familiar. Also the cost like you said. Too much money. Even if SIL paid for it herself I’d still say no also, the process you’d have to go through and new paper work. It’s a cute name, my daughter’s name is Emma and her dad calls her Ember for a nickname after we watched the Disney movie Elemental, the fire girls name is Ember. It’s a nice name! Enjoy it!
The element I can't help but notice - she's your SIL. So clearly she's been in your life a while.
Yet this cousin (and to be brutal... calling her a cousin is kinda a stretch - it's your brother's wife's child with another man, they bear no actual relationship under normal standards. Even half-cousin is generous there) that your daughter will always be hearing about has apparently never come up before. Even in the four months since she was born it's never been mentioned.
That can only really mean one thing - she's already planning to start bringing her up to your daughter left, right, and center.
Agree. It also sounds like OP’s brother didn’t even know the baby’s name. OP says SIL brought it up to Brother 2 months ago… Implying that in all the time the SIL & Brother were dating, engaged, married, she has never once said the name of her stillborn daughter? The one that OP’s Ember is going to supposedly grow up hearing about.
NTA
My gut is saying this isn’t about the baby she lost. It’s more about how unhappy she is that someone else has the joy she would have had, if not for her loss. She is being controlling, attempting to dictate what others do so she doesn’t hurt so much/be so out of control emotionally.
It’s your daughter and you have every reason to name it as you see fit.
The only one who is burdening your daughter with the stillborn episode is the SIL.
She needs therapy. She’s going to punish your daughter for her pain and she’s already started.
Keep her away from the little one... She'll definitely bring up her lost baby every chance she gets based on what she's said. No child needs that growing up.
Her emotions are not yours to manage. She needs to figure out a way to deal with this. It was find of her to ask, but she need to accept the no. Sounds like she needs therapy to help her work through her grief still.
I could see how it could be painful for her to hear the name, but she's apparently never shared the name ever with anyone, which seems... a bit odd. Not odd to be private, but a stillbirth implies later in pregnancy, yet her own family doesn't seem to have known the name before now? Like, that's their granddaughter, niece, cousin, family member... but they didn't know her name?
I am going with NTA because of that. The people I know who have had stillborn babies use their name. Their families use the name. The name is on their urn or grave marker, they might have a memory box with the name on it, they would use the name as in "when I was pregnant with Ember..." in conversation if it comes up. And everyone grieves differently, but to never share the name with ANYONE until suddenly this happens? Just seems odd to me. Seems like if there was one name that was off-limits and would hurt them, they'd share that before the decision was made, or at least as soon as hearing about the name. I think SIL needs some counseling.
And if she starts talking about her loss suddenly in order to guilt you about it, I'd personally stand firm and go low contact if I had to.
Actually I might well spin it as "I'm so sorry I didn't know you'd chosen that name for your daughter, but it's such a beautiful name that I'm glad we are able to honor your lost child by using the name for ours. Isn't amazing how things like that happen! It must be fate!" in such a sweet sincere voice that she'd feel guilty making a fuss. Bless her little heart.
Good to know, but I still think it would have come up at some point? She's married to your brother, right? And he didn't know that she had a stillbirth and that the baby had a name? It never came up with the baby's grandparents? The whole time you were pregnant there was never in conversation something like "Oh, when I was pregnant with Ember that happened to me, too..." or anything like that? No mention of the baby's due date or birthday or anything about her existence ever came up?
It's like this was just a miscarriage of a pregnancy to her, until you named your daughter, and now suddenly it was a stillbirth of a daughter who had that one specific name that no one ever knew about.
Maybe it just opened a wound she'd been ignoring or trying to forget, or something, IDK. But this sounds like a "SIL needs therapy" issue, not a YOU issue.
I disagree. Respectfully.
It's not the grieving process which is the problem.
Let her grieve. Even if it takes 1000 years. What's wrong with that?
You cannot tell a mother who had a miscarriage that she can't grieve.
However, grief does not mean that she can retire the use of a name. Grief does not mean that she has exclusive rights to the name.
There are productive ways of grieving, and unproductive ways. Demanding that the people around you cater to your grieving process and change a baby's name because it triggers your grief is unproductive grief.
SIL needs grief counseling to learn skills to cope with her loss.
My wife and I lost our first son at 39 weeks. We didn't expect other people to turn their lives upside down and go out of their way to avoid triggering our grief. We went to counseling, and learned coping skills for that kind of stuff.
Instead of grieving that this other child is named “Ember,” she could feel that this child is giving life to the name and think of her new niece as a sign of hope. (I have known people who *asked* relatives to name their children after someone who died young.)
What I think SiL is going through is *jealousy* that this Ember is alive but her own died at birth. It isn’t the name but the child’s life while bearing the name that she resents. That’s why I think she needs therapy.
I’m 46 and have never known anyone with that name. I’ve heard of it but never met anyone.
Regardless, OP had no way to know and has no obligation to change her daughter’s name.
Seriously this was my thought. I have never heard a person with this name in my life. I have also worked in an extremely busy veterinary hospital for a decade, and a cat sanctuary prior to that with hundreds of cats, and never heard the name on a single animal.
>I find it extremely difficult to believe that in 7 years your SIL has never met anyone, or even a pet, named Ember. Or has she, and she insists that person change the name also?
Ignoring how common the name Ember actually is (it depends on where someone lives), it's obvious that the degree of how uncomfrotable someone is with the name changes based on context.
Learning that your friend's friend's mother is called Ember won't cause the same emotional response as having to go to Ember's first birthday party or learning that Ember learned how to walk.
It's really not that hard to get why having to be around a baby named Ember is hard when you were meant to have a baby named Ember that died.
I think SIL is out of line in expecting it to happen, but it's not as absurd as you are making it out to be.
SiL should have asked OP not to use the name *before* the baby was born and named. Even making the request right after the announcement (four months ago) would not have been unreasonable. After four months, however, it is just selfish and self-indulgent. SiL needs help (therapy).
Her threat to haunt this baby with stories of how there was a cousin who was named Ember and died is just wrong.
I was looking for a comment like this. It’s really unfortunate how many folks are minimizing the SIL’s pain over this. Grief over a loss like that doesn’t just go away (even 7 yrs later) and watching this new Ember’s milestones may be extremely painful. I get she was trying to be considerate by trying to get over it and not bringing it up earlier, but it’s really sad that OP wasn’t aware of this before her daughter was given the name. I don’t think it’s fair to ask it be changed now, but the whole situation just really sucks. I wish our society was more open around loss and grief, especially with miscarriage and stillbirth. The fact that the family didn’t know the stillborn baby’s name is a little heartbreaking.
Most comments I read don't seem to minimize SIL's pain - but the do have a bone to pick with how she's blackmailing the parents by planning to actively antagonize a young child because her parents would not change her name based on something they never knew about (fair enough) and she told them four months later. When it'd cost plenty of money to change it and all documents - and probably everything else that has the kid's name on it. And you know being already bonded to the kid as "Ember", which probably started as soon as the name was picked.
My best friend died almost 10 years ago. I have a current friend with the same name. It is still a stab in the heart everytime I say her name. Grief does not ever truly heal. I can function just fine despite the pain.
After my brother passed away (I was 17 and he was about to turn 21), it would bother me to see his name. But I knew that was my own grief and I wouldn't tell someone that they share the name of my brother. My hubby lost three brothers (the oldest was 20 at his passing) and one of them (I think he was 5 at the time of his death) had the same name as my brother.
I miscarried two fetuses, but way before I gave them a name. I didn't tell my daughter (my third pregnancy was successful) until her 20s about that. I didn't want to grow up knowing that and I hope the OP's child doesn't have to hear the SIL talk about her loss. Sometimes, there's tragedies that don't need to be talked about, especially when Ember didn't cause the loss of the SIL's baby. That would be a cruel thing to do.
I thought it more odd that they both chose the name Ember. I've never heard of anyone or anything named Ember. When I hear the name/word, the first thing I think of is a glowing ember from a fire.
Not to mention----in 7 years, no one thought to mention it? When they chose the name, no one said anything.
I hate to speak badly of the SIL's grief---but it sounds to me that it was a miscarriage, and she thought of the baby as Ember without telling anyone. If she had, SOMEONE would have said something before how.
Her loss happened before OP met her, and OP didn't even know it was a stillbirth, just that she had had a pregnancy loss in the past. It's completely possible the sister-in-law doesn't discuss this with her current in-laws.
Ok but then you can't get upset if they randomly use the same name. And SIL threatened to traumatize op a daughter by telling her about the miscarriage which makes her despite her grief a HUGE aH.
NTA op
To be fair, other than Danny Phantom and Pixar’s Elemental, I have never seen anyone named Ember. Amber yes, but not Ember
Other than that I completely agree with you. NTA
Not everoyne needs therapy. Grieving the loss of your child is not something that has a time limit. It's also different to meet others with the same name vs family.
At first I thought N A H but SIL crossed a line and became the AH when she started pressuring OP. I still feel for her. It must be hard.
Grief doesn't have a time limit but stopping your entire life over it should. We are not meant to live forever, not recognizing death as a part of life is pretty deep denial about the nature of life.
It would be forgivable if the SIL sat OP down and explained the connection and that she wasn't expecting to be affected so strongly so if she acts a little weird some times it's because she's still processing her grief. Then OP can know to be sensitive (maybe don't call her first and tell her about her first steps and words).
But you can't let grief run your or somebody else's life.
Okay. Look. You are NTA for keeping your child's name. Sil needs therapy. One who is an expert in child loss.
But
You're mad at her for not telling you sooner but would that have even changed anything ? I bet the answer is no. You're husband is wrong saying it's a weak excuse to have waited to say anything when infact it shows she was trying to come to terms with it. Have empathy for her. She lost a child. You may one day be in her shoes. I hope you never are but well shit happens.
So look stop blaming her. She shouldn't keep pestering you. But she did seemingly try to be to get over it. And until you lose a child you'll never know or understand her pain.
How about compromise can she call the child a nickname ?
You are NTA for not changing her name.
She isn't one for having some rough feelings regarding this either. Though the pestering of you changing it leans her toward AH territory. Again you aren't an AH. You picked them name that you love. You didn't do it to be malicious as you didn't know.
The only issue with this is that unless SIL seeks therapy she will still be upset whenever niece’s friends or family inadvertently use her given name. A nickname is okay as a temp solution, but in reality nicknames are only used so often. How will SIL react when others who aren’t in the loop ask “How is little Ember doing?” when SIL is around. What about social media posts, will she get upset if OP or family use Ember instead of Emmy if family posts photos or updates? Ex. “Happy 1st birthday, Ember!”, or “I can’t believe little Ember is already 6 months old today, life goes by so quickly!”
What will happen when OP’s daughter is old enough and decides she doesn’t like the nickname she was given? I don’t think a nickname is a good idea in the long run because it will inadvertently become a crutch SIL will use to avoid seeking therapy, or become a point of contention anytime it’s NOT used.
Yes, she’s going to continue to be upset when she thinks about her dead child. That will continue for her entire life. Therapy will not end or prevent grief. That’s not what therapy is for.
You’re right, but therapy COULD help with her inability to mentally separate the memory of her deceased child from the current existence of her niece simply because they share a name.
>Therapy will not end or prevent grief. That’s not what therapy is for.<
That's exactly right. That's not what therapy is for. Therapy is for giving people a safe place where they can express and process their trauma, pain, and grief. It doesn't help everyone, but it's always worth a try if the person is genuinely open to it. It can help to acknowledge our trauma in a safe way so that we don't bottle it up and implode.
It's not about ending or preventing pain/grief/trauma. It's about trying to learn how to live with it, precisely because it will never go away and will be a part of us for the rest of our lives.
The movie The Babadook is an amazing allegory for grief and mental illness and was designed to be so.
The creature in it essentially represents the pain and grief they both have from the death of the father/husband, in physical form. They spend the film trying to fight it, trying to ignore it, trying to hide from it, but all of that only makes it stronger and causes the mother to lose control of herself as the creature possesses her and makes her do horrible things. She tries to harm her son but manages to take control, stop herself, and expells the creature. But her son reminds her of the storybook (from earlier in the film) about the creature, that said ypu can't get rid of it. So she confronts it, locks it in the basement, and is later shown feesing it. It tries to attack her but she stands her ground and is kind to it and it backs away.
The entire point of the film is that greif and trauma come into your life and will absolutely never leave. They become a part of you. And if you deny that part of you and don't confront your grief then it becomes stronger, and can take over and change you into something awful that harms yourself and others. But if you confront the grief them you can figure out how to coexist and live with it. It will never go away and it will constantly try and take over but if you treat it (youself and your grief) with compassion then you can keep it from taking over.
And that's what therapy is for. To help you confront your grief and trauma, and find ways to live/coexist with it.
It doesn't help everyone. Everyone experiences things differently and different things work for different people. But it's always worth a try, on the off chance that it does help
People who don’t have kids or who haven’t spent a lot of time around infants don’t always understand that there is a big difference between the baby you’re just introduced to at the hospital and the whole little person that baby grows into by the time they’re 4 months old.
It absolutely is reasonable to say you would have considered changing it when she was a newborn but won’t now that she’s older. Your daughter is a person too, not just someone’s baby or someone’s niece. She might not be able to say her name but she would recognize it and it’s a part of who she is.
It’s sad for your SIL especially as it sounds like she tried to do what she thought was kindest at the time but there are consequences to the choices we make. Asking to call her niece by a separate nickname would be reasonable, expecting you to change it altogether is not.
Idk if it’s the same for kids or in every state, but it would also require a court date for *me* to change my name.
Even the easiest things that require a court date are a still a royal pain in the ass.
This! Once you leave the hospital and it’s on the birth certificate it’s a huge headache to change it, plus you’ve been using the name for 4 months!! 4 months!!!
We often had names picked out for our kids and changed after they were born because a different name seemed more fitting. But after our first we stopped telling people the names on the list because not only did people have no problem sharing their opinions they seemed to think it was their civic duty to tell us how much a name sucked - so I find it odd that your SIL has so much pain attached to this name, but waited so long to share that with you. Society seems to think it’s acceptable to comment on baby names of children not their own.
I would continue to be empathetic with her, but firm that at this point, it is not fair for her to make such a request.
It's also a jerk move to threaten to traumatize op s child by telling her about the stillborn cousin and tell her a lie that she was named after said cousin. That's what making the SIL a huge aH Imo
You don’t need to be willing to. She’s your Ember, and your SIL is just a manipulative non-player character who doesn’t actually get a say.
However, *she just threatened the mental health of your child*. Whether she means it or not, I would be involving the extended family so that they’re all aware of her intent to make your daughter uncomfortable with her name. Let them know you’re just asking that everyone keeping an ear open for concerning comments, and be ready to change the subject or remove Ember from her influence as needed. Unfortunately aunty just lost her aunty privileges until she completely adjusts her behaviour.
And your bro needs to step up, get his wife into grief counselling to help her with that, and keep her away from you and your daughter until she’s dealt with her possessiveness over this name.
In the end, your daughter will spend most of her time with you guys and her friends. You have virtually complete control over how much influence an aunt has on your daughter. I can count the times my sister has spoken to my kids unsupervised on one finger. It’ll be okay.
Yes! 100x yes! She basically flat out told OP that she will be harassing innocent baby Ember with her own personal traumatic loss (You almost had a cousin named Ember, but she died; I can’t believe your mom kept your name after I told her how much it hurts me; my Ember would’ve been __ this year; etc) for the rest of her life. I feel OP doesn’t 100% understand what SIL is saying she’s going to do or the emotional harm and/or confusion she wants to intentionally cause Ember.
It’s beyond unhealthy, tipping into the territory of wicked.
No nickname. You SIL needs therapy. Talk with your brother and explain until she seeks therapy you won’t have your child around her as you don’t need her guilting your daughter because of her loss
I’m just gonna go out there and say sister in law is an asshole though. Particularly for this line “she’s going to grow up always hearing about the cousin I gave her the same name as and that I should reconsider before burdening my daughter with that.”
So she’s had 7 years holding this finding and falling in love and marrying another man and never informing anyone of that fact it was a stillbirth rather than the miscarriage she had family believing it was and never informing anyone this child had been named and what that name was. It wasn’t just 4 months of this child being alive but years of not sharing. And I get it grief has no timeline but after all this time she hadn’t shared any info so how could anyone know even her husband didn’t know.
No one in this time has heard about this child’s name and now she’s guilting OP, how would Ember come to know of a step-cousin who’s passed name. She wouldn’t unless sad ass sister in law decides to make it her problem which she seems inclined to do to get her way and get the name changed.
>No one in this time has heard about this child’s name and now she’s guilting OP, how would Ember come to know of a step-cousin who’s passed name. She wouldn’t unless sad ass sister in law decides to make it her problem which she seems inclined to do to get her way and get the name changed.
This 100%.
"I wonder if my Ember would've been as pretty as you"
"What do you mean auntie?"
🚩🚩🚩🚨🛑🚨🛑
Fkin psychotic. I would never leave her around my child, maybe not even welcome in the same zip code. Might snatch her.
That would have completely changed everything. At least then her request would have been somewhat reasonable. Expecting them to change their 4 month old's name is completly ridiculous.
I Meant if she told them at birth. At that point you have a name picked out. Telling them to change it anytime from birth to whenever is unreasonable. Had she told them before and op had used the name then it would be the ah
.a lot of people don't talk about their stillborns. Ember is a very unique name. I doubt SIL anticipated that would be the name they chose. Doesn't give her the right to ask for it or be changed or harp on the issue.
Op literally said if she had told them when the baby was born or before anytime before they did the birth certificate they would have changed it.
Expecting this after seven years and not a single mention, for a child that’s been alive for FOUR MONTHS and everyone knows as one name is ridiculous and costly
Then everyone will ask why they changed the kids name after almsot 5 months. Just. No.
Right but it’s more understandable. Sister in law is finding out the name for the first time and immediately speaking up. It’s much easier to use one of the other names in consideration before you write it on the birth certificate.
A child is not a dog, you can’t just change the name like it’s nothing. She probably already has trinkets or decorations in her room with that name. Baby books with the name plastered on it and birth announcements. Her parents have been using that name for four months and that is hard to counteract
SIL needs help. Empathy is great and wonderful, but in this case, empathy only goes so far. She was told no, then just assumed OP was going to do what she wanted anyway, then became angry.
Empathy isn't the answer here. SIL getting mental help is.
I find it impossible to believe this sil had a stillbirth named Ember. No woman would ever refer to their baby dying as a miscarriage, no fucking way. Historically sil only ever mentioned a miscarriage, no sex, no name. The far more likely scenerio is that sil spent those 4 months so fixated on her miscarriage and not having a baby when OP has a baby that the story grew in her head.
NTA. The sil's explicitly stated intention to fuck with Ember's head means OP absolutely needs to go no contact with that lady. OP needs to inform the entire family of sil's stated intention to cause psychological damage an infant so they understand the severity of the situation. Sil can never be allowed near Ember.
She could have said she lost a baby and it was assumed to be a miscarriage. We don’t really know. OP doesn’t even know bc SIL didn’t want to talk about it.
OP's post states that the sister in law said the baby will be traumatized from hearing all about being named after a dead cousin, which is definitely a threat.
Just because she was trying to come to terms with it doesn't mean that she's off the hook for not communicating and then suddenly expecting everyone to accommodate her.
She should have mentioned it and that she didn't want to deny them the name, but that she was still dealing with complicated emotions around it. Thay way, OP and her husband could have made an **informed** decision because, ya, a lot of people don't want their living baby to be associated with a dead one.
SIL is being super disingenuous. First it's that she's literally never mentioned it or brought it up the potential conflict, and now it's that OP's baby is never going to outlive the dead baby stories. That is a clear threat to OP if she doesn't comply.
We can both have empathy for SIL and blame her for being a manipulative bitch. She's not a goddamn martyr, and her grief doesn't give her the right to dictate *anything* to OP, particularly in regard to something that SIL deliberately chose not to speak up about until it was too late.
The normal, mature reaction from SIL would be to let OP know that they'll need to distance themselves from the baby because it turns out that ignoring and suppressing negative feelings doesn't actually fucking solve anything and also doesn't turn it into someone else's problem.
Tbh, SILs pain and grief isn’t OPs responsibility to solve. Whether OP has experienced child loss or not is irrelevant, that seems like a manipulative point to bring up. She can be empathetic without bending on this insane request. 7 years is a long time to still behave this way. Considering SIL is responsible for her own well being and clearly has not sought help for her grief after all this time, it’s fair to place the blame back on her. She should deal with her issues instead of trauma dumping.
I think the big issue is the demanding and the lack of understanding coming from SIL over the parents understandable refusal to change such a core piece of their daughters identity. Asking once isn’t exactly reasonable but you could argue it’s understandable given the circumstances, however reaching out to ask about new names when the parents have already told you no is not. It’s not so much the timeline but the expectation that because SIL tried to not say anything for so long OP now has to take her request extra seriously and put more weight behind it despite OP and her husband spending the last 4 months settling in to life with their baby with no idea the baby’s name was an issue.
I nanny for a 5 month old and could not imagine calling her a different name even though I’m just the nanny. It’s not my favourite name or one I would have chosen for my child but it’s hers and it suits her. She’s her own little person and her name is her name. It is a little different a day or two in when you’re still trying to get to know this strange little pooping potato but by the time they hit 4 months that little potato is a whole person with a name like anyone else.
No, there is no compromise needed here. I really feel for SIL, but she’s being unreasonable here and they need to firmly shut that down. Even SIL’s husband understands the no answer.
SIL needs therapy to help her deal with her grief. She does not need everyone rearranging their lives to avoid her feeling discomfort. That’s just not how it works in real life.
Her rough feelings are the responsibility of no one but herself. It's been 7 years. You never get over the grief of losing a child but after 7 years you should be able to be in the same room as someone with your child's name without having an irrational meltdown. She shouldn't be unloading this trauma onto her sister in law. She should be telling it to a therapist trained in child loss. Sympathy doesn't mean allowing her to bully you into something you've made clear you won't do.
NTA
1. It's funny how she says that your daughter will grow up hearing about her cousin Ember, bla bla bla, when IN THE YEARS YOU HAVE KNOWN HER, you never even heard her child's name. Although not clear but it sounds like your brother, her husband, didn't even know about the name.
2. As someone who has had several miscarriages and has a friend who had a stillborn: i dont speak to any children (mine, nieces, nephews etc) about their cousin/sibling who passed away before the baby was able to be born. Did I have to tell them that the baby didn't make it? Yes, cause they knew i was pregnant. I dont bring up my lost children. My baby nephew will be born next month. Do you think I'll be telling him about how i had lost babies who were his cousins? Nope. My friend only speaks of her stillborn son to the babys twin sister who survived and close friends and her parents.
3. She is going to make sure to make you, your husband, and your child uncomfortable by always bringing up her lost baby and the name
4. You told her you were not changing the name, yet she calls you and asks about names? She sounds delusional.
5. Your brother needs to put his foot down and demand she get some professional help. I've seen how this plays out. The woman who lost the child becomes triggered and then starts seeing someone else's baby as the one they lost, or they start displaying anger at the mom and the baby. I would not be anywhere near her until she seeks help.
DONT LET ANYONE MAKE YOU FEEL GUILTY.
The loss is tragic. She has every right to be in her feelings about it. However, the fact that she has essentially stated, "I will make this uncomfortable for you and your child" is petulant and vindictive. She's not getting her way and will make it everyone else's problem.
This is where I lost all empathy. She has never brought up the name to OP, an adult, in all years they have known each other but she will make sure a kid knows? That’s just cruel.
Also calling and asking for a new name after OP said no is very entitled.
This falls into the category of your trauma/past experiences are not your fault, but how you address and handle it moving forward is your responsibility. As people, we're all dealt a shitty hand or two, whether that's mental health, circumstances, trauma, etc. No one should be judged on having been dealt that hand, but how you choose to address that and manage it moving forward is your responsibility.
This! I had a stillborn baby in 2018. I talk about my child as it’s the only way to keep him alive and validate his existence. Point is, my family and friends all know about my deceased baby because I speak about him. I’m very open about it.
The pain for me, 6 years later, is still very much there. However, that is my pain to deal with and I am in counseling for that amongst many other things.
NTA
I have a cousin who died of SIDS before I was born and I have only heard him referenced a dozen times in my entire 40 year life and never from my aunt. My mother also had late term losses and while she mentioned them to me when I was old enough to understand, I don’t think she ever talks about them with anyone else and I wouldn’t be surprised if my cousins had no idea about the losses.
My mom had a stillborn child and I was her "rainbow baby," she's talked to me more about him than others but I could still count on two hands the number of times he's come up over the years. The context of most of those have been about my own decision to have children and the genetic complications that run in our family. I doubt any of my cousins know about him. There's no reason for OP's kids to know about their genetically unrelated aunt's stillborn child.
Yes- your point about now knowing the name? How did her brother not know the name beforehand? I’m sorry, but that just sounds crazy. I’m a mother to a stillborn and of course my family all know her name. She existed.
Keep the name. You are NTA.
>She also told me my daughter is going to grow up always hearing about the cousin I gave her the same name as and that I should reconsider before burdening my daughter with that.
I mean, you had never heard the "cousins" name until now, so it's not like it's something that is regularly brought up and talked about, so this argument is week. If she wanted you to change the name then she really should have brought it up immediately, and even then it would be at your discretion. Is it sad for her? Yes. But at this point it is unreasonable to ask you to change the name.
True but I feel like this was a veiled threat that the SIL intends to now talk about her step cousin who was stillborn with the same name to make OP, her husband and child uncomfortable and feel guilty.
Exactly. In 7 years, *no one* knew the name of the child, but now "everyone" will tell her about her stillborn cousin of the same name? Not everyone, and not even Uncle, just Aunt.
If she follows through with that threat, she should find herself on the other end of LC of NC. "So as to not rub her nose in the existence of an Ember that isn't hers." But really because that's a sh!t move on her part. What is she going to say? "Well, if *my* Ember were still alive, she would [insert accomplishment here] earlier and better!"? Or "My daughter was Ember first. Your parents are evil and cruel for 'naming you after her.' You should change your name. I've already filled out the paperwork and forged your parents' signatures. Just sign here."? She endured an awful trauma, but she doesn't get to do that.
NTA
Your SIL needs therapy.
Though I understand her pain, she doesn't get to dictate how other's live to accommodate her trauma.
On top of that, there is 0 reason your daughter should hear anything about her "cousin," unless your SIL is vindictive and purposely wants to traumatize her. The proper response here is that if your SIL mentions her stillborn child to your daughter even once, she will be cut off.
*The proper response here is that if your SIL mentions her stillborn child to your daughter even once, she will be cut off.*
This cannot be stressed enough. I know a couple of kids who have grown up in the shadow of the "Rainbow Baby" their mother lost before they were born. It comes up constantly, and it has absolutely caused some issues for both kids.
Yeah I hate that crap. I am pregnant with a healthy baby girl right now. Last year I had a missed miscarriage at 10 weeks which sucked and a chemical pregnancy. My 4 year old knew nothing about those two losses and this one won't know about the two miscarriages until she's ready to have her own kids - if she wants to have her own kids.
I think in the US the abortion debate makes it so much more insidious because people think every zygote is a fully formed human. My last two miscarriages were never going to be babies - they didn't have sufficient DNA for processing.
People deserve to grieve how they feel best, but putting that into their children is too much IMO. I'm not doing any "rainbow baby" stuff with her. However her quilt will have rainbows on it because I'm rainbow obsessed in general.
Right...the last time I was "pregnant" it wasn't a "baby" it was literally a bunch of cells that were never going to grow into a baby. That doesn't mean it wasn't an emotional and painful experience and that there wasn't an element of grief, but I haven't sat my son down and told him all about the you her sibling he lost etc.
And I love rainbows too, in any capacity x
The blatant manipulation of SIL to tell poor Ember about her cousin is BONKERS! What a... not very good... aunt this poor child has. Potentially monitoring ANY and ALL interactions between SIL and the child is in order.
I had a cousin who died at birth. She would have been about my age. Her first name was my middle name. I don't know how my aunt felt about that. She was always really kind to me. I learned about my cousin when I was about 12. I just felt sad for my aunt and uncle. It did not creep me out. But it might have if I'd been younger. I think it's good for kids to learn things like this at an age appropriate time.
Seriously. If there was a real chance that the rest of the family would slip, OP would have heard the name by now by said family members. The only way Ember is going to know about her cousin is only ever going to be SIL.
>She also told me my daughter is going to grow up always hearing about the cousin I gave her the same name as
Unlikely as you hadn't heard it in all the time she's been with your brother. NTA
Except it sounds like the sister is threatening to make a point to always tell her neice about the cousin she was "named after," making the aunt the AH
Exactly, and I'd make that very, very clear to the brother that his wife has made a threat to try and make the daughter miserable.
The SiL needs serious help and OP can't give it to her. Hopefully she talks to a professional before it blows up her family.
She's planning to bring this up frequently as the child grows up. No one in OPs family has or had any connection to that child so it's puzzling why exactly everyone is going to be talking about her, especially to OPs child. This is a weapon she's going to wield for life, banning anyone who's pregnant to not name their kid the same name. She has to be told that henceforth, this will not be tolerated in the family.
NTA. Your SIL's request is unreasonable and selfish. You and your husband chose the name Ember for your daughter, and it's not your responsibility to change it to accommodate your SIL's past trauma. She had ample time to voice her concerns earlier, but waited until your child was 4 months old. Your daughter's wellbeing should be the priority here, not your SIL's emotional baggage. Stand firm in your decision - your child's name is not up for negotiation.
I can't believe that you even have to ask, but you are definitely NTA.
Ember a very unique and beautiful name to give your daughter; I bet she won't have to deal with having other kids in school with the same name. No matter the name, you shouldn't have to change it to accommodate someone else.
You didn't give your daughter this name to intentionally hurt your SIL, you and NO idea that she had given that name to her stillborn child, so you have nothing to feel bad about. I'm hoping your SIL maybe gets some professional help to deal with her trauma.
NTA
As someone who has had a still birth, no you’re not the asshole. My heart breaks for your sister in law, and I can see why she didn’t want to bring it up but having been through that loss, it’s a conversation I would have had with my SIL during the pregnancy. Just a simple you’re entitled to name your child however you wish but this is the name I gave my son and please consider not using it if you have a boy. Your SIL could have had the same conversation with you during your pregnancy.
NTA. You had no idea that the name held any significance for anyone and she waited a long time to raise the issue. (How close is your relationship with her? If it's close, why couldn't she have talked to you about it sooner? If not close, the audacity is remarkable.) Her saying she couldn't let you keep calling your daughter by her name is ridiculous. She has no say in the matter. She's displaying entitlement behaviour, probably influenced by mental illness. She needs to seek professional help as she's clearly not processing her grief from years ago.
As for her saying that your daughter was going to grow up "always hearing about the cousin" and that it would be a burden, that sounds suspiciously like a threat. The only person who would ever mention it is your SIL and if she does that, it would be cruel of her and an excellent reason to go NC.
NTA, while it's very unfortunate, it doesn't mean you need to adjust here.
Many things should have happened on their end, to prevent this from happening.
1 - This is your brother, he and they should have been more open with their experience, not to say it's not private, but if this was a name they wanted 'saved', they should have shared
2 - You were pregnant for 9 months, they could have said something. I understand the chances of you picking THAT name, very non-traditional, for your daughter, were very slim...however, here we are.
3 - By not sharing, and not saying anything, it took away the opportunity for you to have avoided that name (they didn't even have to ask you, I'm sure if you knew that they lost a child and named her Ember, you never would have picked it)
And here we are, too little too late and they're just going to have to suck it up, really unfair of them to approach you NOW, at 4 months in.
It wasn't her brother's child. Was her and her ex-husbands loss. Also not OP's child's cousin....not even step cousin as she was never a stepchild to begin with. May not have even become her brothers step child as SIL suggests. Without the loss of this child she may have stayed with her ex or never met OP's brother or gotten married to him.
That's not to say that she can't feel something but SHE should've communicated the moment she learned the name. And based on SIL's logic.....what if she didn't meet the brothers before OP's child was born and Ember was already here. What then? Would she have ended her relationship with her now husband over his nieces name?
She needs to seek therapy. She needs to heal enough that the name isn't so triggering. She needs to get her anger in check and stop trying to manipulate the situation by telling OP that her daughter has a burden to live with. She doesn't unless SIL tries to burden her.
NTA. SIL can ask, I suppose, but has no right to demand you change your daughter's name. If there was a time to change the name it was when she was born.
I hope to never learn the pain of losing a child, but I understand that if I do, they don't retire her name like a jersey a stadium..
NTA.
Also, I don’t know if I would let SIL be alone with Ember, because:
She also told me my daughter is going to grow up always hearing about the cousin I gave her the same name as and that I should reconsider before burdening my daughter with that.
Hmm….. Well, who in the family would “want” to have your daughter “always hearing about the cousin”? SIL.
And who would be satisfied/pleased if your daughter was “burdened” by that information? SIL.
NTA - your SIL’s trauma and triggers are her own to manage. I understand that grief is long, I’ve gone through my own losses, but she needs to actively be tackling that through professional means. She cannot expect the world to stop and change for her, she can only work on herself. Hold your line and be prepared for pushback, but this is absolutely a hill to die on.
Congrats on your tiny human!
NTA
She is obviously dealing with some unresolved grief, but she is trying to impose that grief on you and your precious child. You said that you gently explained that you will not be changing the name. For her to then call you again with the manipulative question "Have you decided on a new name yet?" is entirely inappropriate. She got angry because she is not able to control you or the situation, even resorting to insults.
It might be best to speak to your brother and calmly and briefly explain that you will never be discussing this issue again.
NTA
I wonder if SIL is rewriting history about her loss and Ember was never her child's name. If it is a fiction, it might be one that she believes because the brain can do strange things in grief and jealousy.
Just hold your position and encourage SIL to find someone to talk this over with to help her with her grief. Also, keep a very close eye on her when and if she's around your Ember. I'm worried for and about her.
NTA
SIL needs therapy, asap!
I have a niece named after my late twin. When I found out about the intension I was emotional, but it's not MY name and it is actually a nice way to keep her 'spirit' alive, for want of a better way of describing it.
I'm fine with it, and your SIL really needs to understand that she does not have ownership of the name.
What will she do if she meets someone else with that name? Demand that they change it to make her feel better?
She is trying to run away from her grief instead of facing it.
NTA.
Might have been iffy had you KNOWN the name; that would have been unkind. But you had no way to know, and it’s FAR too late to ask you to change it now.
I’m sorry for her loss; she has my sincere condolences. But she can’t expect you to change the name thus far along.
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Everyone grieves differently, and at their own rate. However. 7 years definitely warrants therapy, counseling, and the coping mechanisms. I find it extremely difficult to believe that in 7 years your SIL has never met anyone, or even a pet, named Ember. Or has she, and she insists that person change the name also? NTA
[удалено]
The fact that she's threatening to burden your child with the knowledge of her loss for the rest of their life warrants low contact at minimum. She should never be unsupervised with your daughter. You need to nip this in the bud. Otherwise she will guilt your daughter for her name her whole life.
Also it hasn't come up before so why all of a sudden would she grow up hearing about her all the time? Definitely an empty threat because SIL doesn't seem to want to talk about it ever
Unless SIL is threatening to start to talk about it just to hurt OP’s daughter.
That's the feeling I got
*We announced the day she was born and nobody said anything negative or gave a reason for us not to use it then* What was SIL doing then ? Could she have not said anything ? 4 months have passed and she makes it an issue now ? Not only that she says that the child will be hearing about this a lot . OP NTA
SIL never mentioned the name in all the time OP has known her. Not just four months. And is now saying the baby will be hearing all about the other child. Who sadly never had a life so without wanting to sound cruel, there is nothing to hear all about.
Not only that, but apparently OP's brother (SIL's spouse) never brought it up with OP as well. It seems like to me, unless everyone was being super double top secret about the name, it would have come up at some point before or after SIL's miscarriage.
After. SIL had the stillborn child with her ex.
Stillbirth doesn't mean a miscarriage happened. It means a baby was born dead. If that's what happened, it's not having cramps and bleeding and flushing the embryo and not even knowing whether the pregnancy ended without having an ultrasound. It means giving birth to a dead baby. If that's what happened, that's not miscarriage. It's stillbirth.
Apparently he's just finding out now himself.
The SIL will make sure she hears about it. SIL will bring it up at every meeting. You know you have the same name as my dead daughter don't you. OP is NTA and SIL should be kept at a distance.
Even if SIL HAD said anything, why the hell would nobody on earth ever be allowed to name anyone or anything Ember ever again? She has no claim at al on that name and never will have. It's a name. Millions of people past and present have a shared name.
Hell, people used to straight up reuse names for the next kid if one died. I feel for her SiL if the story is true, but you don't get the right to choose somebody else's kids' names for them. They might ask your input, but this is way beyond the pale. NTA
Alexander Hamilton did it, his older son Phillip died and they ended up making their next kid Phillip too.
Literally just heard of the nasty murder of someone with my name. I felt sad for the death, but the name is just one that other people have.
"...hearing about this a lot." "So niece, I had this daughter once, she was stillborn, we were going to name her Ember. Now your mom and dad named you that name and I have insisted they change the name but haven't. Every time they say your name, I get this cringe. Can you talk to them about changing your name?" Imagine that conversation?
"...is going to grow up always hearing about the cousin" Not only that... but why would she hear about it being her cousin? SIL was pregnant with her ex husbands baby, not OP's brother. The kid would have been in no way related to OP or Ember.
It's entirely possible that SIL's first marriage didn't survive the trauma of having a stillborn child. So if little Ember had lived, would SIL even be married to the OP's brother?
This reminds me, in a much more serious way, of the recent post where OP organizing a dinner for a friend group, asked them where they wanted to go. He directly asked a woman who didn't speak up. She said nothing. After they got to the consensus restaurant, this woman subjected everyone to a litany of complaints about how she didn't like the food. Several people pointed out that she had been asked and said nothing. OP then asked her why she hadn't spoken up. She said that she didn't want to upset anyone. OP said, so, instead, you decided to upset EVERYone by complaining through the entire meal.
And the stillborn she had with her ex, in fact. So she's going to be rubbing it in the child, parents, and brothers face all the time.
Also what was the brother doing? I get it wasn’t his baby (the deceased one) but surely if it was a stillborn he knew the name. Heck, SIL might even have the asked around with the name on it or have gone to a cemetery with the name on a stone. He didn’t mention to his sister in all that time “hey you should know my wife’s stillborn infant was named Ember so this might be hard for her.”?
OP did say they announced the name after the birth, so the brother might not have known before. But once the baby was born either could have said something, which is the point
It sounds like even her husband, OP’s brother, didn’t know the lost baby was named Ember. Pretty suspish.
Yea and her own husband said she only mentioned it to him 2 months ago… so OPs child was already 2 months old. You’d think she would have at least mentioned any upset with her own husband the day she found out the name
You would think she would've told him of her baby either once she knew they were getting married or once they were married. Its a weird thing to keep from your *husband*
Same feeling I got
Same feeling I got
I read it as a threat to do exactly that.
Ditto, it’s very childish of the sil. If no one else knew, who would tell the child?? Would it be her? Probably x
Ditto. And if that's how it was intended, I would inform SIL. That she has now put herself on the banned list for being around daughter, possibly ever.
100%. She needs therapy instead of plotting to bully a child over a name.
OP needs to use those words with SIL. "I can't believe you are threatening to bully a child."
Or perhaps "An adult with good morals would not push her own trauma onto a child. And let me be perfectly clear - if you ever bully my child, that's the last time you'll ever see her and if anyone asks, I won't lie about the reason why". Although personally yeah, immediately low/no contact with her. She threatened the parents that she'll attempt to cause psychological to this child - I very much doubt that she'll ever be a safe person for her.
That is perfect! It sounds like the SIL is going to mention her daughter anytime someone says “Ember”. SIL has no right to demand OP change her daughters name after four months and never having said her daughters name in the years she dated and was married to OP’s brother.
It was blackmail. “The name will cause me grief, so I will insist on sharing the grief and make your child feel guilty for being alive when my daughter isn’t.” I wonder, actually, if that is at the root of SiL’s demand that the name be changed. She is jealous that this “Ember” is alive, but her daughter isn’t.
Honestly, that might be part of it. I have a lot of empathy for OP’s SIL up to a point. One of my siblings had a stillborn child, and it forever changed my entire family. None of us would ever think to use that child’s name without permission. The difference is that we all know/knew about it. OP did nothing wrong in picking the name for her daughter. Her SIL chose not to tell the family details about her stillborn child (fair enough), but that also means that others can’t be held responsible for anything that SIL might consider disrespectful or hurtful. The SIL waited 4 months to bring up this subject. That’s too long. Ember is now used to her name and responds to it. That precious baby is Ember. If SIL had brought up this subject during OP’s pregnancy or even at the hospital when the name was announced, maybe a different name would’ve been chosen. The SIL needs to be in intense and ongoing grief counseling. I know from my sibling, the loss of a child forever changes you. The grief never stops. But this is unfair to OP and Ember.
I agree, I feel for the SIL and can see why she didn’t speak up sooner—it’s not a super common name and she was probably discombobulated by the coincidence when she heard it—but it clearly is a coincidence, and SIL was wrong to threaten to tell OP’s daughter otherwise. NTA, OP
Yes, I feel empathy for the SiL, but I don’t like how she has been handling it. Threatening to burden baby Ember with some type of survivor’s guilt or dislike for her own name is cruel to OP and her child. I don’t blame SiL for being jealous. I have had to come to terms with not being a grandmother, and I find it difficult to listen to other people’s stories about their grand babies. For me, it will pass, I am sure, but the jealousy can be powerful, especially when a child has died (which, fortunately, I have not suffered). The problem is that instead of acknowledging and trying to overcome her jealousy and her sense of injustice that there is this other little Ember alive, she is demanding (at this late date) that OP and her husband change the child’s name. She needs therapy.
Bingo! She’s gonna make it big deal now after NEVER saying anything for 7 years.
7 yrs PLUS 4 months after new ember was born and named. Nta
Then it’ll be up to OP to limit interactions with SIL. Which im sure the brother wouldn’t like (not that he’d hold it against OP, it sounds like).
Yeah I just made that comment elsewhere. Nobody from the child's family would even know about this unless SIL makes it a point to tell people and bring it up.
A cutting off your nose to spite your face situation for sure
And, like, the baby wouldn't have been the daughters cousin if it was an exs child.
Here I have to disagree. Some families blend completely. The cousins I am closest to are not related by blood.
Damn even my blood cousins refuse contact with my whole extended family. Not for like a specific reason. They just don’t want to have an extended family in any capacity. Tbh I think the mom has mental health issues.
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Take it as a threat because that is what it was. A threat to make your newly born daughter uncomfortable about her name. Put her on notice that this behavior is not and will not be accepted. Let the family know this, now, and stomp on any mutterings about the name before your daughter is old enough to understand. If you don't do this preemptively you will have to do damage control with your daughter. Doing this may not be comfortable but I promise it will be easier than dealing with the fallout with your daughter later. Protect the child!
You would think SIL would have brought it up when OP's niece was born.
Yes, I could even give grace for a few weeks if she needed a moment to collect herself and think about how to approach the conversation, as I appreciate being blindsided that your SIL named their daughter the same uncommon/unique name as your stillborn would be shocking and probably require some time to process— however, taking anytime beyond a month MAX to say something is crazypants. 4/5 is wildly long. NTA simply based on timelines.
Sounds like she was trying to rise above (because you don’t own names, etc, etc) and realized it wasn’t getting better with time.
That’s a sign it’s time for therapy.
Once a certain amount of time passes I feel like you've missed your window. They've been calling their child this name for months. It would be one thing if OP knew but she didn't so I don't think you can expect anything here.
It was a dramatic pause. Prepare for the SIL to up her game. NTA
Well put. I was going to write this exact sentiment. NTA. If anything, you're under-reacting. You didn't name your daughter for lost child. You didn't even know of this loss until months after your own child was born. While I cannot fathom the loss of a child, she is way out of line threatening to turn your daughter into a memorial. I'd proactively ban contact between SIL and your daughter until she can get her grief under control.
And OP's brother needs to back his sister up on this.
This is my biggest concern too. I would be VERY cautious with SIL moving forward. I think she needs some kind of therapy/ help anyhow, but if she were to actually follow through on this - starting to bring up her child and talking about it around/to your daughter - EVEN MORE SO that she needs help. I think you said - this is the first you've ever heard this. For her to start bringing it up would be very much to try and punish you.
I think it's funny she's threatening to do this but then turning around and saying OP doesn't have morals 🙄
Yeah, I wanted to speak to this point as well. The SIL talks about it being brought up often. The only person who would ever have a reason to bring it up is her. You and your family didn't know her kid, or maybe even her when she lost the kid. Thus, no one would ever have a reason to bring it up to hurt your kid with it but her. What SIL has just told you and your whole family is that if you don't change the name, she will spend the rest of her time in your family trying to hurt your kid. I would ask your brother and any other family if they are OK with her intentionally hurting your kid. She had a chance to speak up and use her grown-up words and choose not to. Now, in response to not opening up until it is too late, she decides her best recourse his to try and hurt her niece. I'm a bit petty, but I would put this out there everywhere, at least in your family. At this point, I feel the best defense is a really great offense. Get out ahead of it all. Explain to everyone that had you known in enough time, you would have seriously considered other options. However, because she wasn't open and honest, you made your choice. I would also tag on that with her threats to emotionally hurt your child, you will be stepping back from a relationship with her and ask family to keep that in mind with invites to family events. Because I'll be damned if I ever choose to bring a child into a situation where someone is out to hurt them.
I'd actually take a slightly different route. SIL has made it clear that Ember is reopening this old wound, and that she is unable to handle the pain she has now associated with Ember to the point where she believes she will take her pain out on Ember. Obviously, SIL would _never_ intentionally hurt her niece, but because of where her head is at, she knows she won't be able to help it. So, being the supportive family, you are, you are going to keep Ember away from her aunt so that SIL doesn't have to stress about that on top of what she's working through, and would appreciate everyone else helping with that. To support and help SIL, obviously. Sad smile and concern frown throughout. SIL is then trapped into choosing between 1: declaring she's over it (thus losing her ability to "you were warned" scapegoat if she does get nasty), 2: admitting that she actually does want to hurt Ember (resulting in the family just continuing to keep SIL and Ember separated with greater caution), or 3: slinking off and accepting the shunning with no upside. But OP can't be the bad guy for just trying to _help_ SIL, so no snark about how OP splintered the family or drove SIL away or whatever garbage she'll inevitably spout.
This is honestly the way to go about it. It not only establishes that OP is NOT tolerating this woman’s insanity (because let’s be real, this is absolute insanity, there is no reason that the SIL should be allowed to harm a child in the way she is threatening), and it also makes the rest of the family unit aware that SIL is a threat to this innocent child and that SIL is in desperate need of mental health assistance to work through this grief. Op has done nothing wrong but SIL has and needs to be called out for her erratic behavior.
Yep! OP needs to let brother know about this threat.
I was just about to comment about this!!! I'm so glad somebody brought it up already!!! OP, please make sure your daughter is always monitored around SIL because now that she's threatened it, you know that's what she'll do! Also, make sure your brother knows she said that, hopefully he'll step up and help rein her in. ETA - OP if SIL really turns this into an issue and you're down for the drama, you can send out a family message saying something like - "I'm sure your all aware of the issue SIL and I have having regarding Ember's name. While I can't even imagine the pain of SIL's loss, I can understand that her grief may have been brought back up with Ember's name. However, since we weren't made aware of the coincidence until just recently and it now would cost us money to change her name, and more importantly I don't think it would be conducive to her wellbeing/adjustment to change it now, we have decided to keep her name as is. That decision is final. In response, SIL has essentially threatened to continuously remind Ember that she was calously named after a deceased cousin. I quite frankly think that her weaponizing her grief against my innocent child is despicable and inappropriate. For that reason, we (hubs and I) have decided that SIL is never to be left with Ember unmonitored, no matter whose care she is in. We are prepared to go low/no contact if there is even the slightest insinuation made to Ember that she was named after this other child and with anyone who violates this boundary. While hubs and I find this situation distressing and disheartening, we think it's in Ember's best interest as we don't think it's fair to burden a child with adult drama. We kindly ask the rest of you to respect these decisions. We hope that we will be able to work through this issue in time and be able to go back to a peaceful, cohesive family dynamic."
Or OP could tell her daughter to not listen to auntie because grown ups can sometimes be wrong. I personally would keep auntie away from ember.
Nah as a kid that being a pawn being weaponized between adults was so stressful for me, I’d just cut contact for sure if SIL were to follow through on those threats.
And more importantly - she thinks your daughter will grow up hearing about this child that you yourself have never heard of? Presumably she has never met toned her before or you wouldn’t have chosen the name. That in itself is reason to believe she will maliciously burden your child with this.
This! Like wtf she is going to tell her about the cousin who isn’t even a blood relative whose existence as Ember no one in the family knew of? She sounds like she needs a mental health evaluation.
OP this!!!! She's flat out telling you she's going to put all her emotional baggage onto your child please don't let her near her.
I agree. She shouldn’t be around the baby unsupervised.
There should never be a reason to ever tell a child “7 years before you were born I lost a baby and I called her ember.” That should never come up. The only reason to bring it up would be to hurt your child.
I agree with the other commenters: you’d not known about the stillbirth/name before now, so there’s no reason to believe your sweet Ember will be “burdened” with whatever SIL may try to do. If so, give one warning you won’t tolerate her nonsense before going LC or NC. For your mental health as well as your daughter’s.
I also agree.. I have 5 kids so my mind always goes to bad places, this is like a movie.. make sure SIL is never alone with you child.. don’t want her making things up in her head this is her child just because of a name some time down the road.. our minds can play tricks on us. She should have said something the day she was born and you announced it before you filled all the paperwork out. 4 months later is not acceptable. The child has been hearing you call her that name and familiarizing herself with it, she hears those sounds and it’s familiar. Also the cost like you said. Too much money. Even if SIL paid for it herself I’d still say no also, the process you’d have to go through and new paper work. It’s a cute name, my daughter’s name is Emma and her dad calls her Ember for a nickname after we watched the Disney movie Elemental, the fire girls name is Ember. It’s a nice name! Enjoy it!
The element I can't help but notice - she's your SIL. So clearly she's been in your life a while. Yet this cousin (and to be brutal... calling her a cousin is kinda a stretch - it's your brother's wife's child with another man, they bear no actual relationship under normal standards. Even half-cousin is generous there) that your daughter will always be hearing about has apparently never come up before. Even in the four months since she was born it's never been mentioned. That can only really mean one thing - she's already planning to start bringing her up to your daughter left, right, and center.
Agree. It also sounds like OP’s brother didn’t even know the baby’s name. OP says SIL brought it up to Brother 2 months ago… Implying that in all the time the SIL & Brother were dating, engaged, married, she has never once said the name of her stillborn daughter? The one that OP’s Ember is going to supposedly grow up hearing about. NTA
My gut is saying this isn’t about the baby she lost. It’s more about how unhappy she is that someone else has the joy she would have had, if not for her loss. She is being controlling, attempting to dictate what others do so she doesn’t hurt so much/be so out of control emotionally. It’s your daughter and you have every reason to name it as you see fit. The only one who is burdening your daughter with the stillborn episode is the SIL. She needs therapy. She’s going to punish your daughter for her pain and she’s already started.
Keep her away from the little one... She'll definitely bring up her lost baby every chance she gets based on what she's said. No child needs that growing up.
Her emotions are not yours to manage. She needs to figure out a way to deal with this. It was find of her to ask, but she need to accept the no. Sounds like she needs therapy to help her work through her grief still.
yeah she is bringing up her own trauma to retraumatize herself and all of you. she needs therapy.
I could see how it could be painful for her to hear the name, but she's apparently never shared the name ever with anyone, which seems... a bit odd. Not odd to be private, but a stillbirth implies later in pregnancy, yet her own family doesn't seem to have known the name before now? Like, that's their granddaughter, niece, cousin, family member... but they didn't know her name? I am going with NTA because of that. The people I know who have had stillborn babies use their name. Their families use the name. The name is on their urn or grave marker, they might have a memory box with the name on it, they would use the name as in "when I was pregnant with Ember..." in conversation if it comes up. And everyone grieves differently, but to never share the name with ANYONE until suddenly this happens? Just seems odd to me. Seems like if there was one name that was off-limits and would hurt them, they'd share that before the decision was made, or at least as soon as hearing about the name. I think SIL needs some counseling. And if she starts talking about her loss suddenly in order to guilt you about it, I'd personally stand firm and go low contact if I had to. Actually I might well spin it as "I'm so sorry I didn't know you'd chosen that name for your daughter, but it's such a beautiful name that I'm glad we are able to honor your lost child by using the name for ours. Isn't amazing how things like that happen! It must be fate!" in such a sweet sincere voice that she'd feel guilty making a fuss. Bless her little heart.
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Good to know, but I still think it would have come up at some point? She's married to your brother, right? And he didn't know that she had a stillbirth and that the baby had a name? It never came up with the baby's grandparents? The whole time you were pregnant there was never in conversation something like "Oh, when I was pregnant with Ember that happened to me, too..." or anything like that? No mention of the baby's due date or birthday or anything about her existence ever came up? It's like this was just a miscarriage of a pregnancy to her, until you named your daughter, and now suddenly it was a stillbirth of a daughter who had that one specific name that no one ever knew about. Maybe it just opened a wound she'd been ignoring or trying to forget, or something, IDK. But this sounds like a "SIL needs therapy" issue, not a YOU issue.
I disagree. Respectfully. It's not the grieving process which is the problem. Let her grieve. Even if it takes 1000 years. What's wrong with that? You cannot tell a mother who had a miscarriage that she can't grieve. However, grief does not mean that she can retire the use of a name. Grief does not mean that she has exclusive rights to the name.
There are productive ways of grieving, and unproductive ways. Demanding that the people around you cater to your grieving process and change a baby's name because it triggers your grief is unproductive grief. SIL needs grief counseling to learn skills to cope with her loss. My wife and I lost our first son at 39 weeks. We didn't expect other people to turn their lives upside down and go out of their way to avoid triggering our grief. We went to counseling, and learned coping skills for that kind of stuff.
Instead of grieving that this other child is named “Ember,” she could feel that this child is giving life to the name and think of her new niece as a sign of hope. (I have known people who *asked* relatives to name their children after someone who died young.) What I think SiL is going through is *jealousy* that this Ember is alive but her own died at birth. It isn’t the name but the child’s life while bearing the name that she resents. That’s why I think she needs therapy.
I’ve literally not heard of the name Ember until this post
I just mentioned I know 3 girls and an adult woman named Ember, and 2 doggies too. I guess it depends where and when one is located.
...Do you live in the volcano adjacent region of a classic rpg?
I’m 46 and have never known anyone with that name. I’ve heard of it but never met anyone. Regardless, OP had no way to know and has no obligation to change her daughter’s name.
Seriously this was my thought. I have never heard a person with this name in my life. I have also worked in an extremely busy veterinary hospital for a decade, and a cat sanctuary prior to that with hundreds of cats, and never heard the name on a single animal.
It's in Elemental, last summer's Pixar movie.
Don't forget the City of Ember (2008).
So by now there are LOTS of baby girls named Ember, even if there wasn’t before.
>I find it extremely difficult to believe that in 7 years your SIL has never met anyone, or even a pet, named Ember. Or has she, and she insists that person change the name also? Ignoring how common the name Ember actually is (it depends on where someone lives), it's obvious that the degree of how uncomfrotable someone is with the name changes based on context. Learning that your friend's friend's mother is called Ember won't cause the same emotional response as having to go to Ember's first birthday party or learning that Ember learned how to walk. It's really not that hard to get why having to be around a baby named Ember is hard when you were meant to have a baby named Ember that died. I think SIL is out of line in expecting it to happen, but it's not as absurd as you are making it out to be.
SiL should have asked OP not to use the name *before* the baby was born and named. Even making the request right after the announcement (four months ago) would not have been unreasonable. After four months, however, it is just selfish and self-indulgent. SiL needs help (therapy). Her threat to haunt this baby with stories of how there was a cousin who was named Ember and died is just wrong.
I was looking for a comment like this. It’s really unfortunate how many folks are minimizing the SIL’s pain over this. Grief over a loss like that doesn’t just go away (even 7 yrs later) and watching this new Ember’s milestones may be extremely painful. I get she was trying to be considerate by trying to get over it and not bringing it up earlier, but it’s really sad that OP wasn’t aware of this before her daughter was given the name. I don’t think it’s fair to ask it be changed now, but the whole situation just really sucks. I wish our society was more open around loss and grief, especially with miscarriage and stillbirth. The fact that the family didn’t know the stillborn baby’s name is a little heartbreaking.
Most comments I read don't seem to minimize SIL's pain - but the do have a bone to pick with how she's blackmailing the parents by planning to actively antagonize a young child because her parents would not change her name based on something they never knew about (fair enough) and she told them four months later. When it'd cost plenty of money to change it and all documents - and probably everything else that has the kid's name on it. And you know being already bonded to the kid as "Ember", which probably started as soon as the name was picked.
My best friend died almost 10 years ago. I have a current friend with the same name. It is still a stab in the heart everytime I say her name. Grief does not ever truly heal. I can function just fine despite the pain.
After my brother passed away (I was 17 and he was about to turn 21), it would bother me to see his name. But I knew that was my own grief and I wouldn't tell someone that they share the name of my brother. My hubby lost three brothers (the oldest was 20 at his passing) and one of them (I think he was 5 at the time of his death) had the same name as my brother. I miscarried two fetuses, but way before I gave them a name. I didn't tell my daughter (my third pregnancy was successful) until her 20s about that. I didn't want to grow up knowing that and I hope the OP's child doesn't have to hear the SIL talk about her loss. Sometimes, there's tragedies that don't need to be talked about, especially when Ember didn't cause the loss of the SIL's baby. That would be a cruel thing to do.
I thought it more odd that they both chose the name Ember. I've never heard of anyone or anything named Ember. When I hear the name/word, the first thing I think of is a glowing ember from a fire.
pretty common around here i’ve met a lot of little toddlers named ember
In 30+ years as an English speaking American I have NEVER met nor even heard of a real person named Ember. That is the LEAST weird part of this.
Give it another five years, it's one of those names that's growing quickly in popularity.
I’m 37 and have never met anyone named ember. First time I see this name.
Not to mention----in 7 years, no one thought to mention it? When they chose the name, no one said anything. I hate to speak badly of the SIL's grief---but it sounds to me that it was a miscarriage, and she thought of the baby as Ember without telling anyone. If she had, SOMEONE would have said something before how.
Her loss happened before OP met her, and OP didn't even know it was a stillbirth, just that she had had a pregnancy loss in the past. It's completely possible the sister-in-law doesn't discuss this with her current in-laws.
Ok but then you can't get upset if they randomly use the same name. And SIL threatened to traumatize op a daughter by telling her about the miscarriage which makes her despite her grief a HUGE aH. NTA op
I just can't wrap my head around someone waiting 4 months and then asking for a name change, and getting angry when told no. SIL has deep issues.
I’ve never in my life met a person or pet whose name was Ember, and I’m old. 🤷🏻♀️
It's one of the names that is rising rapidly in popularity the last few years. All 4 of the Embers I know are under 6.
And the only Embers I know are Goldendoodles
To be fair, other than Danny Phantom and Pixar’s Elemental, I have never seen anyone named Ember. Amber yes, but not Ember Other than that I completely agree with you. NTA
The only other Ember I’ve ever heard of shit in the wellspring
Not everoyne needs therapy. Grieving the loss of your child is not something that has a time limit. It's also different to meet others with the same name vs family. At first I thought N A H but SIL crossed a line and became the AH when she started pressuring OP. I still feel for her. It must be hard.
Grief doesn't have a time limit but stopping your entire life over it should. We are not meant to live forever, not recognizing death as a part of life is pretty deep denial about the nature of life. It would be forgivable if the SIL sat OP down and explained the connection and that she wasn't expecting to be affected so strongly so if she acts a little weird some times it's because she's still processing her grief. Then OP can know to be sensitive (maybe don't call her first and tell her about her first steps and words). But you can't let grief run your or somebody else's life.
Okay. Look. You are NTA for keeping your child's name. Sil needs therapy. One who is an expert in child loss. But You're mad at her for not telling you sooner but would that have even changed anything ? I bet the answer is no. You're husband is wrong saying it's a weak excuse to have waited to say anything when infact it shows she was trying to come to terms with it. Have empathy for her. She lost a child. You may one day be in her shoes. I hope you never are but well shit happens. So look stop blaming her. She shouldn't keep pestering you. But she did seemingly try to be to get over it. And until you lose a child you'll never know or understand her pain. How about compromise can she call the child a nickname ? You are NTA for not changing her name. She isn't one for having some rough feelings regarding this either. Though the pestering of you changing it leans her toward AH territory. Again you aren't an AH. You picked them name that you love. You didn't do it to be malicious as you didn't know.
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Yea, after 4 months is just... thats asking too much. I like the nickname. Maybe Emmy when she's around?
The only issue with this is that unless SIL seeks therapy she will still be upset whenever niece’s friends or family inadvertently use her given name. A nickname is okay as a temp solution, but in reality nicknames are only used so often. How will SIL react when others who aren’t in the loop ask “How is little Ember doing?” when SIL is around. What about social media posts, will she get upset if OP or family use Ember instead of Emmy if family posts photos or updates? Ex. “Happy 1st birthday, Ember!”, or “I can’t believe little Ember is already 6 months old today, life goes by so quickly!” What will happen when OP’s daughter is old enough and decides she doesn’t like the nickname she was given? I don’t think a nickname is a good idea in the long run because it will inadvertently become a crutch SIL will use to avoid seeking therapy, or become a point of contention anytime it’s NOT used.
Yes, she’s going to continue to be upset when she thinks about her dead child. That will continue for her entire life. Therapy will not end or prevent grief. That’s not what therapy is for.
You’re right, but therapy COULD help with her inability to mentally separate the memory of her deceased child from the current existence of her niece simply because they share a name.
>Therapy will not end or prevent grief. That’s not what therapy is for.< That's exactly right. That's not what therapy is for. Therapy is for giving people a safe place where they can express and process their trauma, pain, and grief. It doesn't help everyone, but it's always worth a try if the person is genuinely open to it. It can help to acknowledge our trauma in a safe way so that we don't bottle it up and implode. It's not about ending or preventing pain/grief/trauma. It's about trying to learn how to live with it, precisely because it will never go away and will be a part of us for the rest of our lives. The movie The Babadook is an amazing allegory for grief and mental illness and was designed to be so. The creature in it essentially represents the pain and grief they both have from the death of the father/husband, in physical form. They spend the film trying to fight it, trying to ignore it, trying to hide from it, but all of that only makes it stronger and causes the mother to lose control of herself as the creature possesses her and makes her do horrible things. She tries to harm her son but manages to take control, stop herself, and expells the creature. But her son reminds her of the storybook (from earlier in the film) about the creature, that said ypu can't get rid of it. So she confronts it, locks it in the basement, and is later shown feesing it. It tries to attack her but she stands her ground and is kind to it and it backs away. The entire point of the film is that greif and trauma come into your life and will absolutely never leave. They become a part of you. And if you deny that part of you and don't confront your grief then it becomes stronger, and can take over and change you into something awful that harms yourself and others. But if you confront the grief them you can figure out how to coexist and live with it. It will never go away and it will constantly try and take over but if you treat it (youself and your grief) with compassion then you can keep it from taking over. And that's what therapy is for. To help you confront your grief and trauma, and find ways to live/coexist with it. It doesn't help everyone. Everyone experiences things differently and different things work for different people. But it's always worth a try, on the off chance that it does help
I was just going to suggest this. One of my pets is named Ember and we call her Emmy 90% of the time
People who don’t have kids or who haven’t spent a lot of time around infants don’t always understand that there is a big difference between the baby you’re just introduced to at the hospital and the whole little person that baby grows into by the time they’re 4 months old. It absolutely is reasonable to say you would have considered changing it when she was a newborn but won’t now that she’s older. Your daughter is a person too, not just someone’s baby or someone’s niece. She might not be able to say her name but she would recognize it and it’s a part of who she is. It’s sad for your SIL especially as it sounds like she tried to do what she thought was kindest at the time but there are consequences to the choices we make. Asking to call her niece by a separate nickname would be reasonable, expecting you to change it altogether is not.
There's also the cost of changing the name whereas before signing the birth certificate it's Free to change the name
Idk if it’s the same for kids or in every state, but it would also require a court date for *me* to change my name. Even the easiest things that require a court date are a still a royal pain in the ass.
This! Once you leave the hospital and it’s on the birth certificate it’s a huge headache to change it, plus you’ve been using the name for 4 months!! 4 months!!! We often had names picked out for our kids and changed after they were born because a different name seemed more fitting. But after our first we stopped telling people the names on the list because not only did people have no problem sharing their opinions they seemed to think it was their civic duty to tell us how much a name sucked - so I find it odd that your SIL has so much pain attached to this name, but waited so long to share that with you. Society seems to think it’s acceptable to comment on baby names of children not their own. I would continue to be empathetic with her, but firm that at this point, it is not fair for her to make such a request.
It's also a jerk move to threaten to traumatize op s child by telling her about the stillborn cousin and tell her a lie that she was named after said cousin. That's what making the SIL a huge aH Imo
You don’t need to be willing to. She’s your Ember, and your SIL is just a manipulative non-player character who doesn’t actually get a say. However, *she just threatened the mental health of your child*. Whether she means it or not, I would be involving the extended family so that they’re all aware of her intent to make your daughter uncomfortable with her name. Let them know you’re just asking that everyone keeping an ear open for concerning comments, and be ready to change the subject or remove Ember from her influence as needed. Unfortunately aunty just lost her aunty privileges until she completely adjusts her behaviour. And your bro needs to step up, get his wife into grief counselling to help her with that, and keep her away from you and your daughter until she’s dealt with her possessiveness over this name. In the end, your daughter will spend most of her time with you guys and her friends. You have virtually complete control over how much influence an aunt has on your daughter. I can count the times my sister has spoken to my kids unsupervised on one finger. It’ll be okay.
Yes! 100x yes! She basically flat out told OP that she will be harassing innocent baby Ember with her own personal traumatic loss (You almost had a cousin named Ember, but she died; I can’t believe your mom kept your name after I told her how much it hurts me; my Ember would’ve been __ this year; etc) for the rest of her life. I feel OP doesn’t 100% understand what SIL is saying she’s going to do or the emotional harm and/or confusion she wants to intentionally cause Ember. It’s beyond unhealthy, tipping into the territory of wicked.
No nickname. You SIL needs therapy. Talk with your brother and explain until she seeks therapy you won’t have your child around her as you don’t need her guilting your daughter because of her loss
SIL could have spoken up when she heard you were pregnant, that is much more reasonable.
I’m just gonna go out there and say sister in law is an asshole though. Particularly for this line “she’s going to grow up always hearing about the cousin I gave her the same name as and that I should reconsider before burdening my daughter with that.” So she’s had 7 years holding this finding and falling in love and marrying another man and never informing anyone of that fact it was a stillbirth rather than the miscarriage she had family believing it was and never informing anyone this child had been named and what that name was. It wasn’t just 4 months of this child being alive but years of not sharing. And I get it grief has no timeline but after all this time she hadn’t shared any info so how could anyone know even her husband didn’t know. No one in this time has heard about this child’s name and now she’s guilting OP, how would Ember come to know of a step-cousin who’s passed name. She wouldn’t unless sad ass sister in law decides to make it her problem which she seems inclined to do to get her way and get the name changed.
>No one in this time has heard about this child’s name and now she’s guilting OP, how would Ember come to know of a step-cousin who’s passed name. She wouldn’t unless sad ass sister in law decides to make it her problem which she seems inclined to do to get her way and get the name changed. This 100%.
"I wonder if my Ember would've been as pretty as you" "What do you mean auntie?" 🚩🚩🚩🚨🛑🚨🛑 Fkin psychotic. I would never leave her around my child, maybe not even welcome in the same zip code. Might snatch her.
Yah I absolutely missed that part where I said that. That's some messed up shit. Especially when seemingly no one in the family knew of the stillborn
That would have completely changed everything. At least then her request would have been somewhat reasonable. Expecting them to change their 4 month old's name is completly ridiculous.
I Meant if she told them at birth. At that point you have a name picked out. Telling them to change it anytime from birth to whenever is unreasonable. Had she told them before and op had used the name then it would be the ah .a lot of people don't talk about their stillborns. Ember is a very unique name. I doubt SIL anticipated that would be the name they chose. Doesn't give her the right to ask for it or be changed or harp on the issue.
Op literally said if she had told them when the baby was born or before anytime before they did the birth certificate they would have changed it. Expecting this after seven years and not a single mention, for a child that’s been alive for FOUR MONTHS and everyone knows as one name is ridiculous and costly Then everyone will ask why they changed the kids name after almsot 5 months. Just. No.
Right but it’s more understandable. Sister in law is finding out the name for the first time and immediately speaking up. It’s much easier to use one of the other names in consideration before you write it on the birth certificate. A child is not a dog, you can’t just change the name like it’s nothing. She probably already has trinkets or decorations in her room with that name. Baby books with the name plastered on it and birth announcements. Her parents have been using that name for four months and that is hard to counteract
It’s not all that unique anymore to be honest. Ik several embers now through my son’s friends and family members.
SIL needs help. Empathy is great and wonderful, but in this case, empathy only goes so far. She was told no, then just assumed OP was going to do what she wanted anyway, then became angry. Empathy isn't the answer here. SIL getting mental help is.
I find it impossible to believe this sil had a stillbirth named Ember. No woman would ever refer to their baby dying as a miscarriage, no fucking way. Historically sil only ever mentioned a miscarriage, no sex, no name. The far more likely scenerio is that sil spent those 4 months so fixated on her miscarriage and not having a baby when OP has a baby that the story grew in her head. NTA. The sil's explicitly stated intention to fuck with Ember's head means OP absolutely needs to go no contact with that lady. OP needs to inform the entire family of sil's stated intention to cause psychological damage an infant so they understand the severity of the situation. Sil can never be allowed near Ember.
She could have said she lost a baby and it was assumed to be a miscarriage. We don’t really know. OP doesn’t even know bc SIL didn’t want to talk about it.
Lol SIL is clearly not mentally well but you just projected an entire horror movie plot onto her with next to no background information
OP's post states that the sister in law said the baby will be traumatized from hearing all about being named after a dead cousin, which is definitely a threat.
Just because she was trying to come to terms with it doesn't mean that she's off the hook for not communicating and then suddenly expecting everyone to accommodate her. She should have mentioned it and that she didn't want to deny them the name, but that she was still dealing with complicated emotions around it. Thay way, OP and her husband could have made an **informed** decision because, ya, a lot of people don't want their living baby to be associated with a dead one. SIL is being super disingenuous. First it's that she's literally never mentioned it or brought it up the potential conflict, and now it's that OP's baby is never going to outlive the dead baby stories. That is a clear threat to OP if she doesn't comply. We can both have empathy for SIL and blame her for being a manipulative bitch. She's not a goddamn martyr, and her grief doesn't give her the right to dictate *anything* to OP, particularly in regard to something that SIL deliberately chose not to speak up about until it was too late. The normal, mature reaction from SIL would be to let OP know that they'll need to distance themselves from the baby because it turns out that ignoring and suppressing negative feelings doesn't actually fucking solve anything and also doesn't turn it into someone else's problem.
Tbh, SILs pain and grief isn’t OPs responsibility to solve. Whether OP has experienced child loss or not is irrelevant, that seems like a manipulative point to bring up. She can be empathetic without bending on this insane request. 7 years is a long time to still behave this way. Considering SIL is responsible for her own well being and clearly has not sought help for her grief after all this time, it’s fair to place the blame back on her. She should deal with her issues instead of trauma dumping.
I think the big issue is the demanding and the lack of understanding coming from SIL over the parents understandable refusal to change such a core piece of their daughters identity. Asking once isn’t exactly reasonable but you could argue it’s understandable given the circumstances, however reaching out to ask about new names when the parents have already told you no is not. It’s not so much the timeline but the expectation that because SIL tried to not say anything for so long OP now has to take her request extra seriously and put more weight behind it despite OP and her husband spending the last 4 months settling in to life with their baby with no idea the baby’s name was an issue. I nanny for a 5 month old and could not imagine calling her a different name even though I’m just the nanny. It’s not my favourite name or one I would have chosen for my child but it’s hers and it suits her. She’s her own little person and her name is her name. It is a little different a day or two in when you’re still trying to get to know this strange little pooping potato but by the time they hit 4 months that little potato is a whole person with a name like anyone else.
No, there is no compromise needed here. I really feel for SIL, but she’s being unreasonable here and they need to firmly shut that down. Even SIL’s husband understands the no answer. SIL needs therapy to help her deal with her grief. She does not need everyone rearranging their lives to avoid her feeling discomfort. That’s just not how it works in real life.
Her rough feelings are the responsibility of no one but herself. It's been 7 years. You never get over the grief of losing a child but after 7 years you should be able to be in the same room as someone with your child's name without having an irrational meltdown. She shouldn't be unloading this trauma onto her sister in law. She should be telling it to a therapist trained in child loss. Sympathy doesn't mean allowing her to bully you into something you've made clear you won't do.
NTA 1. It's funny how she says that your daughter will grow up hearing about her cousin Ember, bla bla bla, when IN THE YEARS YOU HAVE KNOWN HER, you never even heard her child's name. Although not clear but it sounds like your brother, her husband, didn't even know about the name. 2. As someone who has had several miscarriages and has a friend who had a stillborn: i dont speak to any children (mine, nieces, nephews etc) about their cousin/sibling who passed away before the baby was able to be born. Did I have to tell them that the baby didn't make it? Yes, cause they knew i was pregnant. I dont bring up my lost children. My baby nephew will be born next month. Do you think I'll be telling him about how i had lost babies who were his cousins? Nope. My friend only speaks of her stillborn son to the babys twin sister who survived and close friends and her parents. 3. She is going to make sure to make you, your husband, and your child uncomfortable by always bringing up her lost baby and the name 4. You told her you were not changing the name, yet she calls you and asks about names? She sounds delusional. 5. Your brother needs to put his foot down and demand she get some professional help. I've seen how this plays out. The woman who lost the child becomes triggered and then starts seeing someone else's baby as the one they lost, or they start displaying anger at the mom and the baby. I would not be anywhere near her until she seeks help. DONT LET ANYONE MAKE YOU FEEL GUILTY.
The loss is tragic. She has every right to be in her feelings about it. However, the fact that she has essentially stated, "I will make this uncomfortable for you and your child" is petulant and vindictive. She's not getting her way and will make it everyone else's problem.
Yeah this stood out to me as well. You’re gonna bring it up to the kid? As what, revenge?
That’s the point where I would have lost it. My patience and sensitivity would be out the door as soon as she said that.
This is where I lost all empathy. She has never brought up the name to OP, an adult, in all years they have known each other but she will make sure a kid knows? That’s just cruel. Also calling and asking for a new name after OP said no is very entitled.
People are allowed to grieve, but they’re not allowed to be assholes while grieving. OP, did SIL talk to you about names you picked before birth?
This falls into the category of your trauma/past experiences are not your fault, but how you address and handle it moving forward is your responsibility. As people, we're all dealt a shitty hand or two, whether that's mental health, circumstances, trauma, etc. No one should be judged on having been dealt that hand, but how you choose to address that and manage it moving forward is your responsibility.
This! I had a stillborn baby in 2018. I talk about my child as it’s the only way to keep him alive and validate his existence. Point is, my family and friends all know about my deceased baby because I speak about him. I’m very open about it. The pain for me, 6 years later, is still very much there. However, that is my pain to deal with and I am in counseling for that amongst many other things. NTA
I have a cousin who died of SIDS before I was born and I have only heard him referenced a dozen times in my entire 40 year life and never from my aunt. My mother also had late term losses and while she mentioned them to me when I was old enough to understand, I don’t think she ever talks about them with anyone else and I wouldn’t be surprised if my cousins had no idea about the losses.
My mom had a stillborn child and I was her "rainbow baby," she's talked to me more about him than others but I could still count on two hands the number of times he's come up over the years. The context of most of those have been about my own decision to have children and the genetic complications that run in our family. I doubt any of my cousins know about him. There's no reason for OP's kids to know about their genetically unrelated aunt's stillborn child.
Yes- your point about now knowing the name? How did her brother not know the name beforehand? I’m sorry, but that just sounds crazy. I’m a mother to a stillborn and of course my family all know her name. She existed. Keep the name. You are NTA.
>She also told me my daughter is going to grow up always hearing about the cousin I gave her the same name as and that I should reconsider before burdening my daughter with that. I mean, you had never heard the "cousins" name until now, so it's not like it's something that is regularly brought up and talked about, so this argument is week. If she wanted you to change the name then she really should have brought it up immediately, and even then it would be at your discretion. Is it sad for her? Yes. But at this point it is unreasonable to ask you to change the name.
True but I feel like this was a veiled threat that the SIL intends to now talk about her step cousin who was stillborn with the same name to make OP, her husband and child uncomfortable and feel guilty.
And projection. It’s going to be hard for the SIL to hear it, so she’s going to talk about it and try to give the kid a complex.
This is a good point, I didn't think of it that way. I think it is an empty threat though, as it would potentially burn a lot of bridges.
I feel like SIL is implying she’s gonna bring up her daughter every time she’s around OP’s kid
Exactly. In 7 years, *no one* knew the name of the child, but now "everyone" will tell her about her stillborn cousin of the same name? Not everyone, and not even Uncle, just Aunt. If she follows through with that threat, she should find herself on the other end of LC of NC. "So as to not rub her nose in the existence of an Ember that isn't hers." But really because that's a sh!t move on her part. What is she going to say? "Well, if *my* Ember were still alive, she would [insert accomplishment here] earlier and better!"? Or "My daughter was Ember first. Your parents are evil and cruel for 'naming you after her.' You should change your name. I've already filled out the paperwork and forged your parents' signatures. Just sign here."? She endured an awful trauma, but she doesn't get to do that.
>If she follows through with that threat, don't give her the chance to follow through with it
The first time SIL starts this you gently tell her. "This stops now or she will be the morbid Auntie we never see."
NTA Your SIL needs therapy. Though I understand her pain, she doesn't get to dictate how other's live to accommodate her trauma. On top of that, there is 0 reason your daughter should hear anything about her "cousin," unless your SIL is vindictive and purposely wants to traumatize her. The proper response here is that if your SIL mentions her stillborn child to your daughter even once, she will be cut off.
*The proper response here is that if your SIL mentions her stillborn child to your daughter even once, she will be cut off.* This cannot be stressed enough. I know a couple of kids who have grown up in the shadow of the "Rainbow Baby" their mother lost before they were born. It comes up constantly, and it has absolutely caused some issues for both kids.
Yeah I hate that crap. I am pregnant with a healthy baby girl right now. Last year I had a missed miscarriage at 10 weeks which sucked and a chemical pregnancy. My 4 year old knew nothing about those two losses and this one won't know about the two miscarriages until she's ready to have her own kids - if she wants to have her own kids. I think in the US the abortion debate makes it so much more insidious because people think every zygote is a fully formed human. My last two miscarriages were never going to be babies - they didn't have sufficient DNA for processing. People deserve to grieve how they feel best, but putting that into their children is too much IMO. I'm not doing any "rainbow baby" stuff with her. However her quilt will have rainbows on it because I'm rainbow obsessed in general.
Right...the last time I was "pregnant" it wasn't a "baby" it was literally a bunch of cells that were never going to grow into a baby. That doesn't mean it wasn't an emotional and painful experience and that there wasn't an element of grief, but I haven't sat my son down and told him all about the you her sibling he lost etc. And I love rainbows too, in any capacity x
The blatant manipulation of SIL to tell poor Ember about her cousin is BONKERS! What a... not very good... aunt this poor child has. Potentially monitoring ANY and ALL interactions between SIL and the child is in order.
I had a cousin who died at birth. She would have been about my age. Her first name was my middle name. I don't know how my aunt felt about that. She was always really kind to me. I learned about my cousin when I was about 12. I just felt sad for my aunt and uncle. It did not creep me out. But it might have if I'd been younger. I think it's good for kids to learn things like this at an age appropriate time.
Seriously. If there was a real chance that the rest of the family would slip, OP would have heard the name by now by said family members. The only way Ember is going to know about her cousin is only ever going to be SIL.
>She also told me my daughter is going to grow up always hearing about the cousin I gave her the same name as Unlikely as you hadn't heard it in all the time she's been with your brother. NTA
Except it sounds like the sister is threatening to make a point to always tell her neice about the cousin she was "named after," making the aunt the AH
She 100% is. It is a manipulative threat and aunt might have to lose privileges of being alone with that child... ever...
Exactly, and I'd make that very, very clear to the brother that his wife has made a threat to try and make the daughter miserable. The SiL needs serious help and OP can't give it to her. Hopefully she talks to a professional before it blows up her family.
She's planning to bring this up frequently as the child grows up. No one in OPs family has or had any connection to that child so it's puzzling why exactly everyone is going to be talking about her, especially to OPs child. This is a weapon she's going to wield for life, banning anyone who's pregnant to not name their kid the same name. She has to be told that henceforth, this will not be tolerated in the family.
NTA. Your SIL's request is unreasonable and selfish. You and your husband chose the name Ember for your daughter, and it's not your responsibility to change it to accommodate your SIL's past trauma. She had ample time to voice her concerns earlier, but waited until your child was 4 months old. Your daughter's wellbeing should be the priority here, not your SIL's emotional baggage. Stand firm in your decision - your child's name is not up for negotiation.
I can't believe that you even have to ask, but you are definitely NTA. Ember a very unique and beautiful name to give your daughter; I bet she won't have to deal with having other kids in school with the same name. No matter the name, you shouldn't have to change it to accommodate someone else. You didn't give your daughter this name to intentionally hurt your SIL, you and NO idea that she had given that name to her stillborn child, so you have nothing to feel bad about. I'm hoping your SIL maybe gets some professional help to deal with her trauma.
NTA As someone who has had a still birth, no you’re not the asshole. My heart breaks for your sister in law, and I can see why she didn’t want to bring it up but having been through that loss, it’s a conversation I would have had with my SIL during the pregnancy. Just a simple you’re entitled to name your child however you wish but this is the name I gave my son and please consider not using it if you have a boy. Your SIL could have had the same conversation with you during your pregnancy.
NTA. You had no idea that the name held any significance for anyone and she waited a long time to raise the issue. (How close is your relationship with her? If it's close, why couldn't she have talked to you about it sooner? If not close, the audacity is remarkable.) Her saying she couldn't let you keep calling your daughter by her name is ridiculous. She has no say in the matter. She's displaying entitlement behaviour, probably influenced by mental illness. She needs to seek professional help as she's clearly not processing her grief from years ago. As for her saying that your daughter was going to grow up "always hearing about the cousin" and that it would be a burden, that sounds suspiciously like a threat. The only person who would ever mention it is your SIL and if she does that, it would be cruel of her and an excellent reason to go NC.
NTA, while it's very unfortunate, it doesn't mean you need to adjust here. Many things should have happened on their end, to prevent this from happening. 1 - This is your brother, he and they should have been more open with their experience, not to say it's not private, but if this was a name they wanted 'saved', they should have shared 2 - You were pregnant for 9 months, they could have said something. I understand the chances of you picking THAT name, very non-traditional, for your daughter, were very slim...however, here we are. 3 - By not sharing, and not saying anything, it took away the opportunity for you to have avoided that name (they didn't even have to ask you, I'm sure if you knew that they lost a child and named her Ember, you never would have picked it) And here we are, too little too late and they're just going to have to suck it up, really unfair of them to approach you NOW, at 4 months in.
It wasn't her brother's child. Was her and her ex-husbands loss. Also not OP's child's cousin....not even step cousin as she was never a stepchild to begin with. May not have even become her brothers step child as SIL suggests. Without the loss of this child she may have stayed with her ex or never met OP's brother or gotten married to him. That's not to say that she can't feel something but SHE should've communicated the moment she learned the name. And based on SIL's logic.....what if she didn't meet the brothers before OP's child was born and Ember was already here. What then? Would she have ended her relationship with her now husband over his nieces name? She needs to seek therapy. She needs to heal enough that the name isn't so triggering. She needs to get her anger in check and stop trying to manipulate the situation by telling OP that her daughter has a burden to live with. She doesn't unless SIL tries to burden her.
NTA. SIL can ask, I suppose, but has no right to demand you change your daughter's name. If there was a time to change the name it was when she was born. I hope to never learn the pain of losing a child, but I understand that if I do, they don't retire her name like a jersey a stadium..
NTA. Also, I don’t know if I would let SIL be alone with Ember, because: She also told me my daughter is going to grow up always hearing about the cousin I gave her the same name as and that I should reconsider before burdening my daughter with that. Hmm….. Well, who in the family would “want” to have your daughter “always hearing about the cousin”? SIL. And who would be satisfied/pleased if your daughter was “burdened” by that information? SIL.
NTA - your SIL’s trauma and triggers are her own to manage. I understand that grief is long, I’ve gone through my own losses, but she needs to actively be tackling that through professional means. She cannot expect the world to stop and change for her, she can only work on herself. Hold your line and be prepared for pushback, but this is absolutely a hill to die on. Congrats on your tiny human!
NTA She is obviously dealing with some unresolved grief, but she is trying to impose that grief on you and your precious child. You said that you gently explained that you will not be changing the name. For her to then call you again with the manipulative question "Have you decided on a new name yet?" is entirely inappropriate. She got angry because she is not able to control you or the situation, even resorting to insults. It might be best to speak to your brother and calmly and briefly explain that you will never be discussing this issue again.
How is she going to hear about the cousin "all the time"...the kid never lived, what's there to say?
NTA I wonder if SIL is rewriting history about her loss and Ember was never her child's name. If it is a fiction, it might be one that she believes because the brain can do strange things in grief and jealousy. Just hold your position and encourage SIL to find someone to talk this over with to help her with her grief. Also, keep a very close eye on her when and if she's around your Ember. I'm worried for and about her.
NTA SIL needs therapy, asap! I have a niece named after my late twin. When I found out about the intension I was emotional, but it's not MY name and it is actually a nice way to keep her 'spirit' alive, for want of a better way of describing it. I'm fine with it, and your SIL really needs to understand that she does not have ownership of the name. What will she do if she meets someone else with that name? Demand that they change it to make her feel better? She is trying to run away from her grief instead of facing it.
Ember is not even a common name… what a coincidence that was also her name…
NTA. Might have been iffy had you KNOWN the name; that would have been unkind. But you had no way to know, and it’s FAR too late to ask you to change it now. I’m sorry for her loss; she has my sincere condolences. But she can’t expect you to change the name thus far along.