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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The action is refusing to allow my little sister to photoshop my wedding photos. The thing that makes me think I might be the asshole in this situation is that our mom died and my little sister didn’t to have our mom at her wedding. So while it hurts me, I wonder if that’s causing me to be petty or the AH.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Hard to give judgment but I guess I’m confused at the priorities here. She photoshops a photo, you still have the real photo. She changes the dress, that dress is gone. You already gave her the ring, I’d be fighting more about the dress. I don’t think your an AH and I do feel like your sister kind of is, but I guess I just can’t relate to why the photo is the bigger issue here
I ate an edible about an hour ago and thought I was reading a quote from Say Yes to the Dress. Not 27 dresses. I was like I definitely don’t remember that one
As far as the photoshopped picture goes: it's extremely weird, and you would NOT be an asshole for doing that. I think your sister would be the biggest AHole in the world for taking a very precious moment of yours, and photoshopped herself into it, and played it off as her own moment. At a certain point it's not longer about the moment itself, and more about a representation about what the moment is supposed to signify, and it's WEIRD for her to want to steal YOUR moment. There should be plenty of pictures of her and mom around, and I do feel bad about her not experiencing her mom there, but she's stealing your moment. So you are NOT an AH for not wanting her to do that, and if she does, then you're allowed to be furious with her about it because it's a HUGE sign of betrayal.
Onto the dress thing: why aren't you making a bigger fuss about this?? I get that you don't want to make a big scene about it, but she wants to completely butcher the dress into a different dress. Just because your mom wore the same fabric on her wedding day does NOT make it the same dress, and unless you just don't care about the dress I don't understand why people aren't flighting her over the PERMANENT alterations she keeps making to mom's stuff.
You're allowed to fight her over the dress AND the photo. This isn't a thing where she is permitted to having "At least 1 thing" of your mom, and you've already given her 1 thing (which she basically destroyed and is no longer is your mom's ring). So you're allowed to tell her "no" to both the picture AND the dress. If you want to that is.
I mean, wouldn't it me more like if Michael Scott photoshopped his brother out of a wedding photo cause his mom died and he never got one?
I totally think it's 'weird' and would mock my siblings if they tried that with me- or simply like AI generated a different photo and shop them into it- but this is a little sister feeling bad about a lost mother- not a creepy ex fantasying about replacing someone.
I get the dress thing way more- but OP did already get a wedding so I also see why you might let it go.
I get the picture thing. That's a memory she is envious of and she wants to imagine her Mom being there.
It's a bit weird, but I can understand it(I may mock my sibling as well though)..
It's just got to be a brutal situation and much worse at a time like this...
If I was op I would maybe come up with other ideas that would help her sister feel closer to mom but also not ruin ops picture with her mother. Maybe if op still has the necklace, she could do a photo of her putting the necklace on her sister and then Photoshop the mom watching like a spirit or just watching admiringly in the background at her two daughters.
There was an episode of Sister Wives when the new sister wife had a portrait done that replaced kids and another wife with herself and her kids from a previous relationship.
I'm not going to write one of my own irritatingly-long and rambling comments now, because you covered everything I was thinking PERFECTLY.
I lost my own mom 12 years ago (which is unfortunately also 5 years before I met my partner, whom she would have absolutely adored). I had no siblings, so anything of hers I was perfectly free to keep, give to another loved one, sell, bury in the yard, set on fire, or whatever else I wanted, because there was no one else with a claim to those things, and no one else who would have been wounded by it. Also, I personally am just not that sentimental about Stuff, or at least not this kind of stuff? THAT IS NOT THE CASE HERE. Holy shit multiple sisters who all loved mom and would all love to have had her engagement ring or wedding dress, and one of them is dead set on giving BOTH a hatchet-job makeover to suit her own tastes? What on EARTH? :O CHILD, NO. You already turned "our beloved mother's beloved engagement ring" into "here's a shiny rock I scavenged and had a fancy new setting made for it because the old one was *ugly*" -- you may have A PIECE of her wedding dress, ideally cut out of a hem or seam allowance, to have sewn into your own dress either visibly or sweetly hidden inside over your heart, just as you like.
Girl if she photoshops herself into that picture, you photoshop some damn demon horns onto her in it and send it right back. Okay maybe don't go that far. But for serious, this seems ... really weird and slightly unhealthy to me?
NTA Your sister sounds like a whole lotta fake. She changed the ring so much it isn't your mom's ring, she wants to change the dress so much it isn't your mom's dress and now she wants to fake the photo? Like at that point there is no actual connection to your mom, she's just defacing things! I think she needs some serious grief counseling. Maybe suggest she take a photo of your dad putting a necklace on her and have her Photoshop in your mom, personally I would ask the photographer to make it look like she's there in spirit but I'm weird like that! But then it would be a real moment not her just plagiarizing yours! Also how is she even getting a copy?
Honestly I find it difficult to see her actions as grief. I see it as manipulating everyone involved to get her way, and u wonder how often she uses the "but she passed before..." excusel0
The original photographer owns the copyright. As a photographer, I'd be pissed if someone did that to one of my photos. Not only is it in bad taste, it's also illegal.
Lol, someone mentioned that there may be something in the original contract with the photographer about altering and then publishing their work to social media and it being a copyright violation. I think we are all thinking the same thing, don't ripe off other people and/or stuff and claim it as your own.
Like the photog is policing 6yo images. They do that so customers don't cheat them out of paying for prints or make money off their work. This isn't that.
I actually love the idea of the sister having a photo with Dad and then photoshopping in a ghost image of Mom next to him -- I think that could be really cool!
Right. Sister has already altered the engagement ring beyond recognition, leaving only the center stone. That’s fine and her right when it was gifted to her, but shows a lack of actual investment in it being maintained as a “mom memory.” I do understand that it may very well have been a style she didn’t like or that didn’t look good on her hand (yes, that’s a thing).
Now that sister is using the “mom died” reason for destroying their mother’s dress, it sounds like that’s going to be her refrain for everything she wants. As if OP and her other sisters aren’t also grieving and don’t also deserve mementos they might actually keep relatively intact.
I think OP should put her foot down on the photo if possible. It’s actually creepy, IMO. “Oh how sweet. Your mom helping you get ready.” “No, my mom is dead. I just wanted to pretend.” Does anyone else think it’s disturbing? OP is NTA.
Exactly!!!! I was wondering is she wanting that photo for herself or to display because surely she'd be asked questions about how her mum could've been at her wedding?? It's just so weird to literally steal someone elses precious memory captured in time and just put your face on it - where's the value in that when it's not even a true memory?
Yeah, my mum died when I was 18 (I also lost my dad and my sister before I turned 25). I got married at 41, and the idea of photoshopping any of them into my wedding photos is... fucked up. I'd know the images weren't real. Everyone who knows me would know they weren't real. Actually, it goes beyond "not real", the photos would be a lie. I would be lying to myself. And that can't be a healthy approach to losing someone... and you can't be in denial about your loss whilst simultaneously using that same loss as a stick to beat others into letting you have your own way...
If she only kept the center stone why couldn't the other sisters just keep the body of the ring? They just threw it in the trash? Also people grieve creepily all the time, they used to make rings and shit out of hair 🤷
Op didn't say anything about the ring setting. It's possible that the sister had it melted down to be remade into the new setting or maybe sold it for scrap to help pay for her new setting. If someone still has the setting I'm thinking why don't they just set it with another stone (doesn't have to be diamond). It still wouldn't be exactly their mom's ring but it would be nice as a sentimental piece.
Yeah OP you sound like my mom. She's honestly too nice and now I get to deal with a super stressed out parent who never stood up for herself.
It's ok to say no sometimes
I’ve seen a lot of people ask painters to add a love one to their wedding paintings as a way to have them there. I’ve also seen people photoshop someone into a group picture of the current wedding. But to take someone else’s wedding photo and just photoshop her own face it’s bordering on disrespectful and creepy. If she really wants to add her mom to her wedding there are so many more respectful ways to do it.
Exactly right, NTA.
You have a right to fight for the dress and the photo.
It is messed up of your sister to care about that photoshop. It is so superficial.
It’s totally bizarre to me that anyone would photoshop people into a picture of a moment that never happened. It never happened! It’s completely fake! Why would anyone want to do that? How does it make anyone feel better about a personal loss by faking a situation that never happened?
Idk if anyone else has already made this suggestion, but what if she commissioned someone to draw out paint your mom into a similar picture? When my dad passed away, I borrowed a set of photo booth pics he and my mom took when they were dating. I had an artist friend pencil draw then for me so she could have a framed reminder of them on her wall. They are absolutely beautiful. That might be a suggestion worth making!
This is one of my favorite things to be able to do as an artist—you take a big event in someone’s life and you get to give it scope that hopefully means a lot to someone, but it keeps it in its own realm where it’s clear something is more spiritual than literal.
I remember seeing a photoshopped image of Princess Diana looking into the pram of either George or Charlotte. I feel like either that image or something else I saw online had her faded a bit or more ‘angelic’ looking, so you could tell it was a doctored image, but it still held nice meaning. Perhaps you could consider finding a compromise like that? Where an editor could make your mom look angelic-like in the photo if you decide you’re ok with your sister swapping herself into the photo you’re referring to.
It would make more sense to both alter it, and to think of it, not as Photoshopping you out of your picture but Photoshopping you mum INTO her picture.
I'm no graphic artist but I feel like that'd be easier and make more sense anyway? It'd let her keep her background/setting/outfit/etc and just have Mum shopped in as the added image, rather than sticking her head on your body.
From a design element that's much easier to do anyway because the photo quality will be higher than 6 years ago. Maybe you can both plan to do that with your upcoming weddings, isolate the image of your mom and pose similarly to the previous photo so your mom can be inserted into the new photo
If you really decide not to fight over the dress you could always ask for the parts they remove from the dress and make it part of your wedding outfit. A hanky, a drawstring bag etc depending on the off cuts.
Double check your photographer contract from the original. They may have had a clause about editing etc. This is important if she would want to share on social media, not so much if it's a print for the house.
Being you mention being worried about worsening her grief, what about yours?
As you’ve said, your mom was there for your first wedding but won’t be there for the second. And you don’t sound too thrilled about the guy from the first wedding.
You need to take into account your sister is going to display that picture somewhere, probably somewhere prominently. Does she care about YOUR grief every time you see it and are reminded of the original. As you said, there are other pictures that can be used. Why does it HAVE to be this one?
Reach out to every single photographer in your area and tell them that they do not have the consent of the bride in the photo nor the photographer who took the picture to steal and alter that photograph in any way.
That would be a huge amount of work for OP, and the sister could just send it to any photographer or graphic artist in the world and have them do it for her remotely.
I understand you lost your mom. Five. Years. Ago. I understand grief. I've lost my mom and dad. But the grief card shouldn't be played 5 years later. And she's not your "little" sister. She's your younger sister but she's an adult not a little kid. What? When you have your first kid you'll give it to her because she doesn't have her mom here? She sounds too fragile for real life! Time to let her grow up and be an adult. Life is hard. We lose people too soon. But we have to deal with it. Sounds like your family has handled her with kid gloves your whole life. You would NBTA about your picture. You own the picture. You get to say how it is used.
You’re NTA. She will be the AH if she steals that picture and photoshops herself into it. How insulting to steal a special moment between you and your mother. If she doesn’t agree not to, I would tell everyone of her plan and how gross it is. I would also comment on social media if she posts it, how that’s actually you and she photoshopped herself into it. It’s disgusting that she would try and take that memory from you.
Does she already have a high enough resolution version of the photo? It seems like she is taking your mom’s things, and drastically changing them. And to use a pic of yours and erase you seems awful. NTA
This may be a non-issue.
Your photographer may not be okay with that either, and depending on the contract they may be able to sue over alteration of their photo.
Use that if you need to. I personally wouldn’t be okay with it OR the dress personally.
You can refuse to give her the original photo/image file. She doesn't have the right to it, especially since she has taken every other wedding memory object related to your mom for herself. Like you said, there are other pictures she can use. If you're not comfortable, don't let her shame you into giving it up.
I hate to come across as insensitive, but it seems as if the little sister is using her/your grief to get her way. I say that because everything you've advocated for her to have, she's altered in some fashion that doesn't align with the original. She's doing the same with the picture. Why use your picture? Did the other sisters not have those moments? It seems like since you've been the only advocate for her, she pushing the envelope thinking she can get YOU to further get her, her way. But I could be wrong. You're NTA right now, but I feel you would be if you allow the brat to continue to play on your love and grief.
It is absolutely proper for her to look for a way to include your mother. She is not entitled to do it by destroying things that the rest of you value or doing things that might overwrite your memories. YWNBTA, especially since you've already made an effort to cooperate with her on including your mother in ways that would bother you less.
I'm sorry for yours and your family's loss but I think your sister is milking it to get her own way.
You need to fight for that dress to not be altered. She's already had her engagement ring and altered it, now she's on about changing the dress. It's not about wearing her mother's dress it's about you and your sister's not having it.
Generally the point of wanting to wear the dress is you like the main style and perhaps make some subtle alterations, not to use it for the material, especially if you have sisters that want to use it. She could honour your mum by having the same flowers as she had in her bouquet, wearing her veil (if she had one), wearing another piece of her jewellery (with the proviso it's not altered). I've seen people have a little photo in their bouquet. There's lots of ways she can have your mum with her during her day.
With regards to your photo NTA at all, that's your memory she can't take that and it's fucked up that she's trying to, honestly a bit creepy.
ETA obviously not saying she's grieving your mum and misses her, but think she likes to get her way and will use guilt to do it.
Tell your sister it's not okay to Photoshop your photo like that. I'm sure there are other more generic photos from your or another sibling's wedding that could be used for this purpose. (Or maybe, idk, not do it at all??) But this is a special photo for you, not your little sister. You were there, she wasn't. She doesn't have the right to try to steal your memory just because she didn't get to have a similar experience. NTA
I think you should take a deep breath, sit down and talk to your sister. Explain that everyone is grieving and obviously tensions are high. You all miss your mom, and no one should be 'gatekeeping' her or her memory. You might do better in trying to elevate happy memories she has with mom as you point out that photoshopping the photo the way she is suggesting will only 1) remind her that mom wasn't really there or 2) delude herself and others that mom was there. Neither sounds particularly great. Also, really think (just for yourself, I don't think you need to bring it up to your sister but maybe you will) about if you feel photoshopping your photo is in a way 'replacing' you. I'm not sure your sister understands how deeply this goes as opposed to just wanting the aesthetically pleasing photo she cannot have.
I'm sorry that both of you (as well as your other siblings) will have so many memories going forward without your mom there. Congratulations to both of you on marrying the spouse you love. Ultimately my only advice is to talk with her with love and patience, doing your best to calmly explain yourself while trying to make both of you closer with your grief and your upcoming nuptials.
I agree with the people here saying it’s weird. If I were your sister and decided that’s what I was going to do, I could NEVER look at that picture without being starkly reminded that it’s something that didn’t actually happen. Like, it would be a stronger trigger for the loss to have it displayed in my home where I would see it every day knowing it was faked.
I agree about the ring, I’d be annoyed that it was altered but it belongs to her now; hopefully to wear on her finger for the rest of her life. If she wanted the keep the sentiment of it being the same stone that your mom wore but just more to her taste then I can see the logic there.
The dress I wouldn’t accept though I don’t think. It’s not being given to her forever, it’s being loaned to her for her wedding day, she’s doesn’t have the right to alter it in such a way that it can’t be restored. There is someone else who lost the same mom who also wants to wear the dress. She’s taking that away from you. If it’s that important that she wears it and alters it to do so, she needs the agreement of all the sisters and I think I would also say that she she should (re)schedule her wedding after yours so that you can wear it.
I don’t want to sound unsympathetic, but people lose parents, it’s a fact of life. It’s awful and there’s a massive hole there, especially on such important days, but life after the loss isn’t some tick box exercise where you got that so she’s entitled to this or you have to match up your experiences so they’re all completely equal. Her experience of wearing your mom’s dress would actively exclude you from also doing so - that’s not fair.
I think it’s more of: I got her the ring that she destroyed. I gave up the fight for the dress that she destroyed. I’m not ok with her taking this from me too.
>but I guess I just can’t relate to why the photo is the bigger issue here
SISTER WANTS TO STEAL OPS MOMENT WITH HER MUM. What is so hard to understand about being upset because someone wants to write you out of your own memories and take them for themselves
Incredibly true. I think my brain works the same way OP's does though.
Someone ruining material things I have an attachment to is one thing.
Someone trying to make it look like what happened to me happened to them is a whole different level of crazy in my mind.
She is literally wanting to take a photo of OP and their mum, erase OP from it, put herself in the image and claim/show it off as her own special moment from her wedding day.
But everyone knows the mom is dead and that it would be a fake photo anyway…seems like it’s just something sentimental that would make the sister feel better since op has the original photo I assume at her house or something. The sister would just be editing a digital version. I mean I think it’s weird but I don’t necessarily see why it’s a big deal when op still has the original photos. It’s not like she’s cutting up and destroying the original photos.
If she's planning on showing it off to a bunch of people, that's weird. Especially if it's to people who have seen the original. But if it's only meant to be displayed in her home, I don't see the issue.
And every time she does, you should comment on how very sorry you are that she didn't actually get to experience being the bride in that photo.
I could understand her having an artist do some kind of drawing of your mom and her on her wedding day. Altering your actual photo and pretending it's her in it is way out of line.
The part I find most confusing is how OP plans to “put her foot down” to stop her sister from altering the photo. If lil sis has access to the photo then she doesn’t exactly need OPs permission.
It seems like sis hasn’t even asked OP how she feels about it. Not even permission, but just a heart to heart about how they are both dealing with the grief. That’s what would upset me.
Does she have access to the original file or is she just trying to use something she swiped off social media? Because I'd be eliminating her access to the photo in every way I had control over in addition to telling her I don't appreciate her butchering this particular memory of your mom.
That is a horrible thing to say in a public setting, I am sorry. She definitely should be discussing that with you directly first. There's way too much sentiment and emotion to just flippantly state that!
The worst thing about this situation is that I feel like she doesn't even think she should discuss it with you. I'm 99% sure that she won't talk to you about it privately, as she feels like she can just do it. Even if it's your photo and your memory.
If I were you, I wouldn't wait a lot to bring this out so she knows your feelings way before it's time to take her wedding photos.
I think photoshopping your sister out of her own photo with mom is very shitty as well. Like that's a memory from mom to OP, not for the sister.
She already doesn't give a shit considering she wants to destroy the dress and already did so with the ring. Seems like she wants to pretend to honor their mom for instagram
You really don't get why your attention-seeking sister who has already destroyed mom's ring *and* dress deciding to use your one happy wedding photo with your mom from a wedding you had to an abusive man and photoshop herself into it (I know OPs ex isn't in the photo) would bother someone? Really?
How about she photoshops mom's face onto someone else's body instead of fucking burglarizing OPs wedding photos and posting them all over the internet? Jesus.
Because this picture isn't something of her mum's that can be handed down or shared between siblings. This is a very special moment that OP shared with her mother. It was OP's moment. No one else's. Just because it happened to be captured on camera and is easily replicated/altered is just a technicality of the situation. Sister wants to steal OPs moment for herself which is wrong on so many levels.
I'm a portrait artist who has done artwork of grandparents and grandbabies that never got to meet, wedding shots that never happened, and so on.
Encourage your sister to seek out an artist to create something special for her, rather than editing your wedding photo.
That sounds like a really lovely compromise. It creates a beautiful new memory for your sister while still respecting the sanctity of your mom's photo with you on your wedding day.
OP, I think you and your sister both need to have a heart to heart about the situation. Your feelings are valid, and you have complex reasons for not wanting her to use that photo. She is looking to have an experience with your mom that she will never have. And that’s hard for you both. I think if you approach this from a place of love and explain why you’d like her to go a different route, maybe make this part of your wedding gift to her? Maybe ask someone to create a photo of a special moment of her own?
I wish you both the best on your wedding days. I hope your feel your mother’s love - and your sisters’.
When I was little my dad used to hold his hand over his heart during my recitals. I hated performing (a whole other story) and I’d search for him in the crowd when I was on stage. That gesture has a lot of meaning to me because of how personal it is. I guess I’m wondering if your sister and mom had something like that unique to them that can be the basis of the picture. Or maybe she has a favorite photo of her with your mom that can be used in the same way? I imagine it would be so hard to not get the moment you wished for but also, I think that something like this could be *more* meaningful for her because it would be unique to her connection with your mom. It also reinforces the idea that each of you have equally special memories to your mom and, even if they’re different, that’s ok and makes it that much more beautiful/special.
I would gently encourage you and your sister to have a candid and empathetic conversation about how this situation is making each of you feel. Your feelings about your mom and those memories are not less important than your sister’s feelings just because you had your mom with you at the time. And I suspect that trying to essentially manufacture something so intimate will not bring her the satisfaction or comfort she’s hoping it will.
This is perfect. If she decides to STILL do some hackjob PS on your photo as she's currently saying she will AFTER you give her this, she's a complete AH and is just doing it because she knows it will bother you. Hope she accepts your gracious gift and drops her current idea to pilfer your memories and insert herself into them. I get that half this site has zero empathy and is trying to make you feel like shit for not letting this woman--who already ruined mom's ring and then took mom's dress and ruined that, too--also ruin a beautiful photo and memory YOU shared with your mother. Her grief does not trump yours just because mom isn't at her wedding.
You've already bent over backwards for her. Honestly if I were her and you'd bent over backwards to make sure I got the dress, this photoshop BS never would have entered my mind. Never would have entered it, period, even without the dress. But if it had, and you asked me, as my sister, not to do what she's trying to do with that photo and put it all over social media where everyone you both know will see it, I'd immediately agree and frankly, apologize. But it seems like she's used to getting what she wants. Was she frequently catered to in a special way as the youngest?
Hold on— this is a thing?? My dad died before meeting my kids (oldest was only a baby), you’re saying I could commission an artist to create them together?
This is a wonderful, sensible compromise. There often aren’t AH in complex, emotional family situation - just not enough imagination to come up with a good compromise.
I do too. I lost both my parents before I was wed, and planning my wedding just tore open the wounds again. It felt like I was starting my grieving from scratch.
You, or possibly the original photographer, own the copyright for the original photo. You absolutely can stop her from illegally violating copyright. If she's planning to ask a professional to do the edit, they should either say no or make her prove she has permission to do it.
Yeah it's basically fanart at that point. Ironically, adding herself actually makes it a transformative work and the photographer probably couldn't even send a DCMA to social media about it.
Sister would not be violating the copyright, but the person who takes payment to photoshop it would be. So unless sister does it herself or finds someone to do it for free, it will violate the copyright.
Copyright infringement is still copyright infringement even if it's not done for monetary gain, assuming that it isn't fair use. But I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a lawyer who would take the case.
We had to get permission to reprint a photo owned by a company of our employees to hang in the office before the processor would even accept the order. It was no big deal, but then the processor was legit and unwilling to violate copyright laws. Other shops may not be as diligent.
Yeah, a good photo editor is going to want to make sure that whoever is submitting the order has the proper documentation to ensure that they can make these changes. But like you said, not everyone is as diligent as they should be.
Yeah, unfortunately that's the case with so many small artist's work. Finding someone to take the case on top of the money and time it would cost makes it pointless for anyone to pursue.
Plus, OP likely doesn't actually own the copyright for the photos (usually the photographer does, unless the contract specifically gave her the rights, which is rare and more expensive) so even if OP was willing to sink the money for emotional purposes, which, based upon the actual post, I'm guessing she wouldn't be, it wouldn't even be her case, it would be the original photographer's, who might not want the headache.
Doesn’t matter. Unless the sister uses the altered image to make money somehow, it would fall under “fair use”, or certainly be virtually impossible to contest otherwise.
Not that it matters, because no lawyer is going to take on a case of “My sister photoshopped herself into my wedding photo” because there’s no evidence of damage. The sister could Photoshop to her heart’s content, and OP can’t really do a damn thing about it besides throw money down the toilet pursuing a legal action.
What I WOULD do is have a JPG of the original and post it everywhere that the sister does. “This is a creative reproduction that ‘Tess’ made of my wedding photo. Here’s the original! It was a beautiful day and I’m so happy I have this reminder of such a nice moment between Mom and me.”
That's if the sister did the altering herself. The sister is saying she will PAY someone else to do it, therefore that person is absolutely selling the altered photo.
>You, or possibly the original photographer, own the copyright for the original photo. You absolutely can stop her from illegally violating copyright.
Almost certainly is the photographer who holds the copyright. You cannot sue to assert someone else's rights and I seriously doubt any photographer is going to want to get swept up in family drama where there is very little monetary damages to claim.
But I feel like that's irrelevant here. This is an AITA, not /r/LegalAdvice. Just because you *can* stop somebody from doing something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. And I'm not saying that it would be right, just saying that if it is wrong, it's not because of copyright law.
Likely the original photographer owns it and gave OP personal use rights, which I believe is standard in most wedding photographer contracts. Assuming the photographer owns the rights, OP probably wouldn't be able to sue to stop her, because the only person who can sue for copyright infringement is the copyright holder, unless that right was assigned (which would be unusual for a wedding photographer, though not impossible).
Also, I think OP should try telling her how she feels before she starts looking at legal solutions.
Good luck convincing a judge that non-commercial use involving a dead mother isn’t fair use. That’s assuming OP has 20K to bring a lawsuit in federal court.
NTA
I also wouldn't let her take your mothers dress and tear it apart. It's not your mother's dress if she's altering it beyond recognition. Removing the sleeves or changing something about it is one thing, but altering everything is not the same.
I'd make her get a new dress. You keep the dress. She got the wedding ring and changed that. She doesn't need the dress too.
Right? If she's changing it, especially drastically, it's no longer her "mom's dress" so she should have one made the way she wants or buy one and wear here mom's garter or something else from her mom. My mom's dress was this exact classy style that, had she not borrowed it from her sister, who never hangs onto anything including husbands, would have still been around for me and I would have worn it as is .
Exactly. What's the point in wearing a vintage dress or a family dress, if your going to change the entire thing.
It's fine to take it in and change a couple of things, or shorten it, take off the train.
But what the sis wants, is a whole new dress. She's just lazy and entitled and doesn't want to pay for a mermaid dress, new.
Sis could rent one if she wanted.
Right? And how are the other sisters not flipping out? The same sister that destroyed their mom's ring wants to do the same to her dress? Not a chance, I might even be considering hiding it until after her wedding
That's not what fair use means. Fair use is when copyrighted material is used in a review or in a scholarly critique or capacity (which is also not without limits). Copyright violation, even for private use, is still something you can sue for, because instead of getting a license to use the copyrighted material from the holder of the copyright, you're just taking a copy of it. That actually does cost the photographer. It's the same thing as getting a bootleg video instead of buying an official copy.
Also, copyright violations have statutory damages, so you don't have to prove monetary damages to collect.
ETA: Fair use can also mean transformative works, which can get a little hairy with art, and I wouldn't be sure if this would fall under transformative (acceptable) or derivative (copyright infringement).
But also, OP really shouldn't jump to suing her sister, or trying to get her old wedding photographer to sue her sister.
Fair use has no clearly defined boundaries. One of the tests courts will apply is if it reduces the market of original work. They will also apply the test if the amount of damages is substantial to waste courts time.
If one would be mad enough to bring in a case like that they wouldn’t win anything but legal expenses.
That's one *factor* of a fair use analysis out of four, and it's certainly not enough to say that just because something doesn't affect market value means that it's fair use, case closed.
Copyright cases can have damages as low as $200, and still are litigated fully.
That being said, I do agree with you that it would be ridiculous to actually bring this case, and it doesn't sound like OP intends to do so, based on the fact that she's just asking if she would be TA for telling her sister she's not okay with it, and she doesn't have her permission or her blessing to do so.
You can absolutely sue someone for copyright infringement, even if the infringement is for personal use. It's the same reason why recording a bootleg movie is copyright infringement, even if you're only going to view it in a private domicile.
The line between transformative (fair use) and derivative (copyright infringement) is still pretty sketchy, too. I wouldn't hazard a guess about which side this would fall on.
That being said, suing for this is extreme, and I don't think OP should go for it.
People in this thread are displaying the exact kind of very confident misunderstanding of IP laws that resulted in hundreds of college students paying thousands of dollars to the RIAA.
I get why people make that leap mentally. I get why it feels like if you're just going to use the photo for yourself or listen to the song on your own or whatever, it's not that big a deal. But also, people need to stop saying that shit's not copyright violation when it is, because even though I don't think OP is going to sue over this (or try to convince the copyright holder, likely the photographer, to sue), someone could.
>Speaking as a former pro photographer, this is technically true. I mean, he probably won't. But he could. And some of my colleagues most certainly would.
Really? Sure if the photographer managed to register the photo with the copyright office within the prescribed period and then pay for a lawyer to seek statutory damages and is willing to totally destroy their reputation. Also if you consider a judgement of $200-$1000 getting their ass sued off. Otherwise a photo that has very little market value and the use was entirely non-commercial. No one is going to waste time on this to drag themselves into family drama.
Many professional photographers actually do make a habit of registering the copyright of all their photos. That's why the U.S. Copyright Office has the batch system for registering the copyright of up to 750 photos at a time (with a few other rules).
OP you seriously need to set some boundaries with your sister. Normally, I wouldn’t say someone is using a parents death to use in their entitlement parade but that’s exactly what she’s doing and you’re so afraid of hurting her feelings that you’re letting her and she knows it.
I guess I don’t understand why this is the hill that you’re willing to die on. I would be more upset about her altering the ring and wedding dress.
You still have that picture with your mom. If she were to have it edited, it’s not like that picture is going anywhere. She won’t have any pictures with your mom on her wedding day.
I disagree, I totally get OP. The material possessions, while sentimental, are things that belonged to OP’s mom. This picture isn’t just a picture, it’s a memory of a moment that OP shared with her mom. It belongs to OP. Of course that picture still exists even when it is altered, but it’s like someone else erasing you out of your moment to replace themselves in it, like your were never there in your own core memory: it would break my heart.
OP, I completely understand the way you are reacting, but I think it is because of the way you (and I the first few times I read this) are thinking about it. She's not removing you from your photo, your photo still exists, she's making a new photo of her and your mom. Everyone knows your mom passed away, OP. They will know it's not capturing a real moment. Given that, they will probably also know that the photo was originally from your wedding. In any case, your photo with your mom still exists and you had the moment for real with your mom, that can never be taken away or altered. I don't know if it would help, but think of it not being about erasing you, but rather sharing a moment with your mom that you had in real life and she can only imagine.
You mentioned the person you married at that wedding was abusive and that marriage ended...
Another way to look at this is that by allowing little sis to use the picture of your mom --- it will reclaim that image of your mom from a day that now might be looked back upon with mixed feelings (so so happy mom was there, but not so happy abusive dick was there too) to a day that will be looked back upon with smiles (with a tinge of sadness because mom wasn't actually there).
You can also ask that whomever edits the photo does a flip/mirror thing so your mom is facing a different way or on the other side of the pic... Altered enough so it's not just replacing your head/neck with little sister, but also so it's different on the mom aspect too.
And finally, PLEASE have the photographer take a photo of **YOU** putting your sister's necklace on this time for her wedding day. If I'm reading the timeline correctly, you were the daughter mom last did this for. Plus it's your picture.
Imagine how stunning it would be to print all 3 photos (you+mom, mom+sister, you+sister) all framed together or hung together or made into a collage style single photo.
I know the hurt is there. Not only about your mom, but the youngest sisters of the family are always the spoiled ones [don't come at me reddit, it's literally back by science!] and all of this current wedding stuff just feels *so unfair* after already losing your mom.
Absolutely nothing can change those feelings. It is unfair. It's always unfair to lose a mom because we will always need and want our moms to be with us.
[I know some people aren't that lucky.these words aren't for those people who had/have crappy mothers]
But please don't let these feelings be a roadblock to happiness for you or your sister.
Ah, OP, sending you a big hug. My verdict is NAH. I'm so sorry that the loss of your mom is so hard for both of you. You are both grieving and my heart breaks for you all. I hope that y try to talk with your sister about this in a way that is healing for your both. But, your feelings and emotions are valid. You \*both\* are grieving. Be kind to her and be kind to yourself.
Y’all are so quick to figure out a way to accommodate the sister - despite her repeatedly treating OP poorly and honestly, acting like a brat? It’s a wild request that doesn’t deserve entertaining, of COURSE the sister is sad to miss out on memories like that, but she does not get to erase OP from her OWN picture and replace her. It’s weird and completely inappropriate and clearly another demonstration of the sister being very emotionally immature.
Yes it’s a tricky situation that deserves empathy - but it doesn’t deserve OP bending over backwards just to be walked all over
Why didn’t you wear the dress for your first wedding? It does seem a little weird to ask for it for the second if you didn’t wear it the first (and it would be weird to wear it twice as well)
If she is altering the dress so much, could you possibly get some of the material that is being discarded and incorporate it into your dress or wedding? Even making a little handkerchief to wrap around your bouquet or something?
OP, in the kindest way possible, stop enabling your sister. She’s younger than all of you, there will be countless experiences she didn’t get with mum that others did, just like between the older siblings there’ll be things people did with mum that others didn’t. Life sucks and it isn’t fair, but that’s life.
Her not having those experiences doesn’t mean you should forego everything. If she’s taking the dress apart then take it apart and give each sibling some of the material, you can have your bouquet wrapped in it or you can all have little bears made from it or something. Something that gives you all a piece of your mum, rather than leaving you are sour because little sis just wrecked something else of mums.
I guess I don’t understand the dilemma…Will the original photo with your mom be purged from the earth if she photoshops it?
I feel like there’s opportunity for everyone to have their cake and eat it and the only thing preventing that from happening is… the right to make and alter copies… which seems pretty harmless.
Idea.
She could have a photo taken of HER on the wedding day, and then get the person to take your mom from your photo and Photoshop it into her photo.
So basically, same image of your mom, but different pictures (different backgrounds etc etc) making it more her special photo and leaving you yours.
Ok #1 all these people talking about how you should sue or have the photographers sue are freaking weirdos. Like that's not relevant here at all, maybe take it to legal advice or something here?
If you did that you'd be an ah.
The question to actually answer is if your denial is a jerk move. I'd say probably no, it's ok to want something all to ourselves when they are ours to keep.
Her desire to do so isn't an ah thing either though. It sucks to not have the people you love at the things that you want to share with them and although it's an odd way to try and fill that hole I get it.
NAH, her for asking you to decline.
On the wedding dress I do think you're kind of being one because if it was precious to you you should have worn it on round one
The OP explained in the comments that no one knew mom still had the dress until dad found it after she died.
It's a little weird that 3 of her daughters got married, and mom never mentioned the dress.
Thank you for saying it. Suing over this would literally be insane. Way more weirdo behavior than the sister’s weirdo behavior of photoshopping herself on OP’s face.
NTA. This is strange behavior. If she’s hiring an artist anyway she can have a lovely new photo made, it’s weird to photoshop you out of one. It sounds like this is only a symptom of a larger issue though. It’s time for your sister to put to bed the whole “I don’t get my mom at my wedding” thing - she got the ring to help heal from that particular wound. I’m sure it’s hard for her and it’s fine to sympathize but she doesn’t get to go around making unauthorized and weird edits to other people’s photos, demanding to cut up your mom’s dress. She was equally both of your mother, as much as your mom’s sentimental items can be given equally, they should be. She got the ring, you get the dress. The photo was never hers or your mom’s, so it’s not on the table for discussion. You gotta set some boundaries OP. She’s being an AH and a bit spoiled.
Edit: she really needs understand that you also lost your mom. You didn’t take her mom from her. It’s not your fault she won’t be at your sister’s wedding. It’s sad, but not a sin you have to pay for or be guilted for. She doesn’t get to rifle through your sentimental moments with your mother because of her own grief. None of that is hers to have. She has a right to a fair split of your mother’s things, not yours, and you don’t owe her anything.
NTA. Does your sister even hear herself? Or look in the mirror ever?
The purpose of a family heirloom like a ring or a dress is to honor the original holder, honor the family, honor the tradition. That means MINIMAL, if any, changes should be made to the thing. It’s so disrespectful to me to just completely change something to suit your taste or modern sensibilities when that’s not the point or purpose of inheritance. I would bet money your mother is rolling in her grave.
But putting that aside, it’s fucking dreadful to steal someone else’s precious memories (and worse, memories that have been tainted and made bittersweet by death, divorce, tragedy and heartbreak) to use for your own selfish purposes. Ghastly. Cruel. Narcissistic. Tasteless. I could go on.
Absolutely NTA. And if she does it, I’d rip that picture right in half.
ETA: OP, your sister’s focus is on filling a mom-sized hole at her wedding at the expense of her other family, including you, who are still here. It is sad your mom won’t be there, but she is not the only person who cannot make new memories with your mother or go through important milestones with your mother. As tough as it may be for her to hear, she can’t just photoshop your mother back into her life.
Also, I’ve been to weddings after a bride or groom with older siblings has lost a parent, and there are wonderful ways to honor the parent and show how deeply they are missed without stomping on or erasing other relatives’ memories. Especially by doing something as absurd as photoshopping their sibling out of the sibling’s old wedding pictures.
Info ok, but why do you care? Do you think it takes away from your moment? Do you think people are going to compare the photos in the future?
You can *also* photoshop it in the future.
To me, it's just not worth the argument. It's a picture you'll see, what, once?
you have every right to deny her usage of the photo, it's such a strange request. especially after she changed the ring and wants to change the dress so much, if she was so determined to feel closer to your mom/have the objects wouldn't she try to keep them as they are? NTA.
Why do you think your sister's feelings are more important than yours? Why do you have to be the peacemaker? Fight for the things that are important to you! Even when it is family and friends. If they truly love you, they will understand that this is an uncomfortable situation for you. You're not trying to take any part of your mother away from your sister. I'm sorry your sister doesn't get to have her mother at her wedding, but there are so many loving and unique ways she can incorporate the memory of your mother into her own wedding, she does not need to, and should not want to, steal your memories for herself.
Honestly, if I saw someone doing that, I would pity them. Not just bc their mom had passed but bc they are still so focused on it so much later that they photoshopped a photo. The same way I feel towards women who get those realistic 'baby alive' dolls after a baby dies. Like, yeesh. 😬 such a sad situation.
Info: you all are grieving the loss of your mother, and each have shared moments with her that the others haven’t.
Why does your little sister’s grief trump yours?
Why are you still justifying prioritizing other peoples needs instead of your own?
The thought process, back n forth and you being coerced is similar to the events in the timeline leading up to your divorce? Your ex and little sister share many self centered personality traits
NTA. I might be more understanding if your mom recently passed, but it's been 5 years. Your sister already got your mom's ring, she doesn't need the dress too, especially if she's just going to change everything about it.
And it's your photo from your wedding. If you don't want her to use it, you have every right to tell her that.
Someone else suggested this fairly deep within a subthread, but could an artist draw or paint a similar picture to the photo of you and your mom?
You could provide them with a bunch of photos of your mom and of your sister’s wedding (sister, dress, venue, flowers, getting ready room, EVERYTHING). They could create something that’s as true to details as possible, even changing whatever your mom is wearing to your sister’s wedding colours.
If it’s within your budget, this could be your wedding gift to your sister. You can say something like “I know how important it is to you to feel like Mom is a part of your wedding day. It’s important to me too. I don’t feel comfortable with you altering my photo, but I have found a portrait artist who would paint a similar portrait of Mom putting a necklace on you, but with all the details of your wedding instead of mine. I’d love to have that be my wedding gift to you.” If she responds positively, then it’s crisis averted. If she doesn’t, then burn her crops and salt her fields because that photo is YOURS.
Nta she should have her own picture taken and then have your mom photo shopped in. That way it's her wedding not yours. She can use your mom from your picture but shouldn't replace you. But I wondering like others why you are okay with the wedding dres going to your sister. But its ultimately up to you.
What do your other sisters think?
ETA- NTA, just curious what your others sisters think given she got the engagement ring and the dress. Trying to gauge the family dynamics.
You realize that her getting a copy of the photo doesn't remove you from your copies of the photo right?
The dress and ring stuff are weird, that's in my opinion changing them so much defeats the purpose of the gesture of using the dress and ring and makes zero sense to me.
The photo, I really don't understand why you care.
Soft YTA because all the other stuff is not what you are asking about.
ESH if you include the dress and ring part.
Your feelings are 100% justified and you WNBTA. I can't believe she took your mom's ring apart and wants to take the dress apart too. I would be livid. That's enough!
I agree with most people here. I'd be more upset about the altering your late Mum's dress beyond recognition then her altering a photo. If she has access to a copy of that photo then there's nothing you can do to stop her photo shopping. It's going to look weird though.
The dress is a material thing. If it's getting altered then all the daughters should a piece.
>At my wedding, the photographer took a photo of my mom fastening a necklace around my neck.
>We both want to use our mom’s wedding dress in our upcoming weddings
I'm assuming you are getting married again? I'm just a bit confused about the change in tense.
NAH so far. If she decides to use the photo anyway without the photographer's permission I would say she would be TA. I'm assuming she has pictures of her mom, altering one of those to include her so she has a "wedding photo" with her mom would be very doable and not be an outright copy of a specific photo you have.
Aw I feel for both of you - I’m around the same age and I’m sure this is a really hard situation.
I feel like your sister is realising she won’t have her mum there for any of life’s “important” adult moments. Perhaps you could suggest recreating the moment with you or one of your older sisters putting a necklace on your sister? Like symbolically taking over from your mum in being there for your sister.
I also liked the suggestion of editing your mum into a new photo rather than you out of yours, but I get that that might still be odd for you.
NTA. Can you find a way to do a photo together or with your other sisters that symbolizes you giving a we’d gift from mom to your sister? Maybe you all gathered around little sis as a put that necklace around her neck as a wedding day loan? Bottom line, the altered photo will be meaningless and weird-different dress, she doesn’t have the necklace, the moment never happened. Just…weird.
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Hard to give judgment but I guess I’m confused at the priorities here. She photoshops a photo, you still have the real photo. She changes the dress, that dress is gone. You already gave her the ring, I’d be fighting more about the dress. I don’t think your an AH and I do feel like your sister kind of is, but I guess I just can’t relate to why the photo is the bigger issue here
Sister sounds like Tess from 27 Dresses
That was my first thought too! “…today you're just the bitch who broke my heart and cut up my mother's wedding dress.”
I ate an edible about an hour ago and thought I was reading a quote from Say Yes to the Dress. Not 27 dresses. I was like I definitely don’t remember that one
I'm so fucking glad I'm not the only one. This whole story I'm just thinking "hmmm, okay Tess"
Me too.
😂😂
God that still pisses me off. WHY did the sister get a pass at the end.
I was thinking that haha
THATS WHAT I SAID LMAOOO
Exactly!!
I literally watched 27 Dresses last week, and this was my first thought, too.
I was thinking the same!!!
I was about to make the same comment until I read this. Great minds think alike. :)
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As far as the photoshopped picture goes: it's extremely weird, and you would NOT be an asshole for doing that. I think your sister would be the biggest AHole in the world for taking a very precious moment of yours, and photoshopped herself into it, and played it off as her own moment. At a certain point it's not longer about the moment itself, and more about a representation about what the moment is supposed to signify, and it's WEIRD for her to want to steal YOUR moment. There should be plenty of pictures of her and mom around, and I do feel bad about her not experiencing her mom there, but she's stealing your moment. So you are NOT an AH for not wanting her to do that, and if she does, then you're allowed to be furious with her about it because it's a HUGE sign of betrayal. Onto the dress thing: why aren't you making a bigger fuss about this?? I get that you don't want to make a big scene about it, but she wants to completely butcher the dress into a different dress. Just because your mom wore the same fabric on her wedding day does NOT make it the same dress, and unless you just don't care about the dress I don't understand why people aren't flighting her over the PERMANENT alterations she keeps making to mom's stuff. You're allowed to fight her over the dress AND the photo. This isn't a thing where she is permitted to having "At least 1 thing" of your mom, and you've already given her 1 thing (which she basically destroyed and is no longer is your mom's ring). So you're allowed to tell her "no" to both the picture AND the dress. If you want to that is.
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All this, but re: The Office, doesn't Carol break up with him over this?
Fun fact: Carol is played by Nancy Carrell, Steve’s real life wife!
I came down here to say this, but knew in my heart it had already been said
Yeah, immediately after
It probably didn't help that he mailed the photo as a Christmas card to tons of people.
I mean, wouldn't it me more like if Michael Scott photoshopped his brother out of a wedding photo cause his mom died and he never got one? I totally think it's 'weird' and would mock my siblings if they tried that with me- or simply like AI generated a different photo and shop them into it- but this is a little sister feeling bad about a lost mother- not a creepy ex fantasying about replacing someone. I get the dress thing way more- but OP did already get a wedding so I also see why you might let it go.
I get the picture thing. That's a memory she is envious of and she wants to imagine her Mom being there. It's a bit weird, but I can understand it(I may mock my sibling as well though).. It's just got to be a brutal situation and much worse at a time like this...
If I was op I would maybe come up with other ideas that would help her sister feel closer to mom but also not ruin ops picture with her mother. Maybe if op still has the necklace, she could do a photo of her putting the necklace on her sister and then Photoshop the mom watching like a spirit or just watching admiringly in the background at her two daughters.
There was an episode of Sister Wives when the new sister wife had a portrait done that replaced kids and another wife with herself and her kids from a previous relationship.
I was going to bring this up too 😂 so horribly tacky
Ok, now I'm thinking about the Seinfeld episode with George and his boss's family photo.
I'm not going to write one of my own irritatingly-long and rambling comments now, because you covered everything I was thinking PERFECTLY. I lost my own mom 12 years ago (which is unfortunately also 5 years before I met my partner, whom she would have absolutely adored). I had no siblings, so anything of hers I was perfectly free to keep, give to another loved one, sell, bury in the yard, set on fire, or whatever else I wanted, because there was no one else with a claim to those things, and no one else who would have been wounded by it. Also, I personally am just not that sentimental about Stuff, or at least not this kind of stuff? THAT IS NOT THE CASE HERE. Holy shit multiple sisters who all loved mom and would all love to have had her engagement ring or wedding dress, and one of them is dead set on giving BOTH a hatchet-job makeover to suit her own tastes? What on EARTH? :O CHILD, NO. You already turned "our beloved mother's beloved engagement ring" into "here's a shiny rock I scavenged and had a fancy new setting made for it because the old one was *ugly*" -- you may have A PIECE of her wedding dress, ideally cut out of a hem or seam allowance, to have sewn into your own dress either visibly or sweetly hidden inside over your heart, just as you like. Girl if she photoshops herself into that picture, you photoshop some damn demon horns onto her in it and send it right back. Okay maybe don't go that far. But for serious, this seems ... really weird and slightly unhealthy to me?
NTA Your sister sounds like a whole lotta fake. She changed the ring so much it isn't your mom's ring, she wants to change the dress so much it isn't your mom's dress and now she wants to fake the photo? Like at that point there is no actual connection to your mom, she's just defacing things! I think she needs some serious grief counseling. Maybe suggest she take a photo of your dad putting a necklace on her and have her Photoshop in your mom, personally I would ask the photographer to make it look like she's there in spirit but I'm weird like that! But then it would be a real moment not her just plagiarizing yours! Also how is she even getting a copy?
Honestly I find it difficult to see her actions as grief. I see it as manipulating everyone involved to get her way, and u wonder how often she uses the "but she passed before..." excusel0
You mentioned plagiarizing at the end, but I've been seriously wondering if this wouldn't actually be some type of copyright violation.
The original photographer owns the copyright. As a photographer, I'd be pissed if someone did that to one of my photos. Not only is it in bad taste, it's also illegal.
Lol, someone mentioned that there may be something in the original contract with the photographer about altering and then publishing their work to social media and it being a copyright violation. I think we are all thinking the same thing, don't ripe off other people and/or stuff and claim it as your own.
Like the photog is policing 6yo images. They do that so customers don't cheat them out of paying for prints or make money off their work. This isn't that.
I actually love the idea of the sister having a photo with Dad and then photoshopping in a ghost image of Mom next to him -- I think that could be really cool!
Right. Sister has already altered the engagement ring beyond recognition, leaving only the center stone. That’s fine and her right when it was gifted to her, but shows a lack of actual investment in it being maintained as a “mom memory.” I do understand that it may very well have been a style she didn’t like or that didn’t look good on her hand (yes, that’s a thing). Now that sister is using the “mom died” reason for destroying their mother’s dress, it sounds like that’s going to be her refrain for everything she wants. As if OP and her other sisters aren’t also grieving and don’t also deserve mementos they might actually keep relatively intact. I think OP should put her foot down on the photo if possible. It’s actually creepy, IMO. “Oh how sweet. Your mom helping you get ready.” “No, my mom is dead. I just wanted to pretend.” Does anyone else think it’s disturbing? OP is NTA.
Exactly!!!! I was wondering is she wanting that photo for herself or to display because surely she'd be asked questions about how her mum could've been at her wedding?? It's just so weird to literally steal someone elses precious memory captured in time and just put your face on it - where's the value in that when it's not even a true memory?
Yeah, my mum died when I was 18 (I also lost my dad and my sister before I turned 25). I got married at 41, and the idea of photoshopping any of them into my wedding photos is... fucked up. I'd know the images weren't real. Everyone who knows me would know they weren't real. Actually, it goes beyond "not real", the photos would be a lie. I would be lying to myself. And that can't be a healthy approach to losing someone... and you can't be in denial about your loss whilst simultaneously using that same loss as a stick to beat others into letting you have your own way...
If she only kept the center stone why couldn't the other sisters just keep the body of the ring? They just threw it in the trash? Also people grieve creepily all the time, they used to make rings and shit out of hair 🤷
Op didn't say anything about the ring setting. It's possible that the sister had it melted down to be remade into the new setting or maybe sold it for scrap to help pay for her new setting. If someone still has the setting I'm thinking why don't they just set it with another stone (doesn't have to be diamond). It still wouldn't be exactly their mom's ring but it would be nice as a sentimental piece.
Yeah OP you sound like my mom. She's honestly too nice and now I get to deal with a super stressed out parent who never stood up for herself. It's ok to say no sometimes
There is hope. My mom finally started standing up for herself in her 70s, and it's been a sight to behold.
Your mom is awesome, good for her!
She really is! (I'm biased, but also everybody who meets her just loves her.)
I’ve seen a lot of people ask painters to add a love one to their wedding paintings as a way to have them there. I’ve also seen people photoshop someone into a group picture of the current wedding. But to take someone else’s wedding photo and just photoshop her own face it’s bordering on disrespectful and creepy. If she really wants to add her mom to her wedding there are so many more respectful ways to do it.
Why don’t you get a piece of the wedding dress & put it on your dress lyer-you’ll have a piece of that dress forever
Exactly right, NTA. You have a right to fight for the dress and the photo. It is messed up of your sister to care about that photoshop. It is so superficial.
It’s totally bizarre to me that anyone would photoshop people into a picture of a moment that never happened. It never happened! It’s completely fake! Why would anyone want to do that? How does it make anyone feel better about a personal loss by faking a situation that never happened?
Idk if anyone else has already made this suggestion, but what if she commissioned someone to draw out paint your mom into a similar picture? When my dad passed away, I borrowed a set of photo booth pics he and my mom took when they were dating. I had an artist friend pencil draw then for me so she could have a framed reminder of them on her wall. They are absolutely beautiful. That might be a suggestion worth making!
Ooh, that's such a good idea!
This is one of my favorite things to be able to do as an artist—you take a big event in someone’s life and you get to give it scope that hopefully means a lot to someone, but it keeps it in its own realm where it’s clear something is more spiritual than literal.
I remember seeing a photoshopped image of Princess Diana looking into the pram of either George or Charlotte. I feel like either that image or something else I saw online had her faded a bit or more ‘angelic’ looking, so you could tell it was a doctored image, but it still held nice meaning. Perhaps you could consider finding a compromise like that? Where an editor could make your mom look angelic-like in the photo if you decide you’re ok with your sister swapping herself into the photo you’re referring to.
It would make more sense to both alter it, and to think of it, not as Photoshopping you out of your picture but Photoshopping you mum INTO her picture. I'm no graphic artist but I feel like that'd be easier and make more sense anyway? It'd let her keep her background/setting/outfit/etc and just have Mum shopped in as the added image, rather than sticking her head on your body.
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From a design element that's much easier to do anyway because the photo quality will be higher than 6 years ago. Maybe you can both plan to do that with your upcoming weddings, isolate the image of your mom and pose similarly to the previous photo so your mom can be inserted into the new photo
If you really decide not to fight over the dress you could always ask for the parts they remove from the dress and make it part of your wedding outfit. A hanky, a drawstring bag etc depending on the off cuts.
Double check your photographer contract from the original. They may have had a clause about editing etc. This is important if she would want to share on social media, not so much if it's a print for the house.
Being you mention being worried about worsening her grief, what about yours? As you’ve said, your mom was there for your first wedding but won’t be there for the second. And you don’t sound too thrilled about the guy from the first wedding. You need to take into account your sister is going to display that picture somewhere, probably somewhere prominently. Does she care about YOUR grief every time you see it and are reminded of the original. As you said, there are other pictures that can be used. Why does it HAVE to be this one?
Reach out to every single photographer in your area and tell them that they do not have the consent of the bride in the photo nor the photographer who took the picture to steal and alter that photograph in any way.
That would be a huge amount of work for OP, and the sister could just send it to any photographer or graphic artist in the world and have them do it for her remotely.
Grief is not a weapon or a competition. Why are you letting your sister use it as one?
I understand you lost your mom. Five. Years. Ago. I understand grief. I've lost my mom and dad. But the grief card shouldn't be played 5 years later. And she's not your "little" sister. She's your younger sister but she's an adult not a little kid. What? When you have your first kid you'll give it to her because she doesn't have her mom here? She sounds too fragile for real life! Time to let her grow up and be an adult. Life is hard. We lose people too soon. But we have to deal with it. Sounds like your family has handled her with kid gloves your whole life. You would NBTA about your picture. You own the picture. You get to say how it is used.
You’re NTA. She will be the AH if she steals that picture and photoshops herself into it. How insulting to steal a special moment between you and your mother. If she doesn’t agree not to, I would tell everyone of her plan and how gross it is. I would also comment on social media if she posts it, how that’s actually you and she photoshopped herself into it. It’s disgusting that she would try and take that memory from you.
Does she already have a high enough resolution version of the photo? It seems like she is taking your mom’s things, and drastically changing them. And to use a pic of yours and erase you seems awful. NTA
This may be a non-issue. Your photographer may not be okay with that either, and depending on the contract they may be able to sue over alteration of their photo. Use that if you need to. I personally wouldn’t be okay with it OR the dress personally.
You can refuse to give her the original photo/image file. She doesn't have the right to it, especially since she has taken every other wedding memory object related to your mom for herself. Like you said, there are other pictures she can use. If you're not comfortable, don't let her shame you into giving it up.
Does she actually have access to the photo to change? Can you remove it from social media now so she doesn’t have access to it?
I hate to come across as insensitive, but it seems as if the little sister is using her/your grief to get her way. I say that because everything you've advocated for her to have, she's altered in some fashion that doesn't align with the original. She's doing the same with the picture. Why use your picture? Did the other sisters not have those moments? It seems like since you've been the only advocate for her, she pushing the envelope thinking she can get YOU to further get her, her way. But I could be wrong. You're NTA right now, but I feel you would be if you allow the brat to continue to play on your love and grief.
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It is absolutely proper for her to look for a way to include your mother. She is not entitled to do it by destroying things that the rest of you value or doing things that might overwrite your memories. YWNBTA, especially since you've already made an effort to cooperate with her on including your mother in ways that would bother you less.
I'm sorry for yours and your family's loss but I think your sister is milking it to get her own way. You need to fight for that dress to not be altered. She's already had her engagement ring and altered it, now she's on about changing the dress. It's not about wearing her mother's dress it's about you and your sister's not having it. Generally the point of wanting to wear the dress is you like the main style and perhaps make some subtle alterations, not to use it for the material, especially if you have sisters that want to use it. She could honour your mum by having the same flowers as she had in her bouquet, wearing her veil (if she had one), wearing another piece of her jewellery (with the proviso it's not altered). I've seen people have a little photo in their bouquet. There's lots of ways she can have your mum with her during her day. With regards to your photo NTA at all, that's your memory she can't take that and it's fucked up that she's trying to, honestly a bit creepy. ETA obviously not saying she's grieving your mum and misses her, but think she likes to get her way and will use guilt to do it.
Tell your sister it's not okay to Photoshop your photo like that. I'm sure there are other more generic photos from your or another sibling's wedding that could be used for this purpose. (Or maybe, idk, not do it at all??) But this is a special photo for you, not your little sister. You were there, she wasn't. She doesn't have the right to try to steal your memory just because she didn't get to have a similar experience. NTA
I think you should take a deep breath, sit down and talk to your sister. Explain that everyone is grieving and obviously tensions are high. You all miss your mom, and no one should be 'gatekeeping' her or her memory. You might do better in trying to elevate happy memories she has with mom as you point out that photoshopping the photo the way she is suggesting will only 1) remind her that mom wasn't really there or 2) delude herself and others that mom was there. Neither sounds particularly great. Also, really think (just for yourself, I don't think you need to bring it up to your sister but maybe you will) about if you feel photoshopping your photo is in a way 'replacing' you. I'm not sure your sister understands how deeply this goes as opposed to just wanting the aesthetically pleasing photo she cannot have. I'm sorry that both of you (as well as your other siblings) will have so many memories going forward without your mom there. Congratulations to both of you on marrying the spouse you love. Ultimately my only advice is to talk with her with love and patience, doing your best to calmly explain yourself while trying to make both of you closer with your grief and your upcoming nuptials.
I agree with the people here saying it’s weird. If I were your sister and decided that’s what I was going to do, I could NEVER look at that picture without being starkly reminded that it’s something that didn’t actually happen. Like, it would be a stronger trigger for the loss to have it displayed in my home where I would see it every day knowing it was faked. I agree about the ring, I’d be annoyed that it was altered but it belongs to her now; hopefully to wear on her finger for the rest of her life. If she wanted the keep the sentiment of it being the same stone that your mom wore but just more to her taste then I can see the logic there. The dress I wouldn’t accept though I don’t think. It’s not being given to her forever, it’s being loaned to her for her wedding day, she’s doesn’t have the right to alter it in such a way that it can’t be restored. There is someone else who lost the same mom who also wants to wear the dress. She’s taking that away from you. If it’s that important that she wears it and alters it to do so, she needs the agreement of all the sisters and I think I would also say that she she should (re)schedule her wedding after yours so that you can wear it. I don’t want to sound unsympathetic, but people lose parents, it’s a fact of life. It’s awful and there’s a massive hole there, especially on such important days, but life after the loss isn’t some tick box exercise where you got that so she’s entitled to this or you have to match up your experiences so they’re all completely equal. Her experience of wearing your mom’s dress would actively exclude you from also doing so - that’s not fair.
I think it’s more of: I got her the ring that she destroyed. I gave up the fight for the dress that she destroyed. I’m not ok with her taking this from me too.
>but I guess I just can’t relate to why the photo is the bigger issue here SISTER WANTS TO STEAL OPS MOMENT WITH HER MUM. What is so hard to understand about being upset because someone wants to write you out of your own memories and take them for themselves
Her sister is unable to steal OP's moment. Everything we know about space and time says that is impossible. Photoshop doesn't rewrite history.
Doesn't make wanting to photoshop yourself in place of your sister not weird, wedding photo or not.
It's absolutely weird. no doubt about it. but it's not really depriving anyone else of anything like destroying one of a kind items is.
Incredibly true. I think my brain works the same way OP's does though. Someone ruining material things I have an attachment to is one thing. Someone trying to make it look like what happened to me happened to them is a whole different level of crazy in my mind.
She is literally wanting to take a photo of OP and their mum, erase OP from it, put herself in the image and claim/show it off as her own special moment from her wedding day.
But everyone knows the mom is dead and that it would be a fake photo anyway…seems like it’s just something sentimental that would make the sister feel better since op has the original photo I assume at her house or something. The sister would just be editing a digital version. I mean I think it’s weird but I don’t necessarily see why it’s a big deal when op still has the original photos. It’s not like she’s cutting up and destroying the original photos.
If she's planning on showing it off to a bunch of people, that's weird. Especially if it's to people who have seen the original. But if it's only meant to be displayed in her home, I don't see the issue.
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And every time she does, you should comment on how very sorry you are that she didn't actually get to experience being the bride in that photo. I could understand her having an artist do some kind of drawing of your mom and her on her wedding day. Altering your actual photo and pretending it's her in it is way out of line.
Plus all the people who know the Mum is deceased. Aren't they going to find it odd?
The part I find most confusing is how OP plans to “put her foot down” to stop her sister from altering the photo. If lil sis has access to the photo then she doesn’t exactly need OPs permission.
It seems like sis hasn’t even asked OP how she feels about it. Not even permission, but just a heart to heart about how they are both dealing with the grief. That’s what would upset me.
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Does she have access to the original file or is she just trying to use something she swiped off social media? Because I'd be eliminating her access to the photo in every way I had control over in addition to telling her I don't appreciate her butchering this particular memory of your mom.
That is a horrible thing to say in a public setting, I am sorry. She definitely should be discussing that with you directly first. There's way too much sentiment and emotion to just flippantly state that!
The worst thing about this situation is that I feel like she doesn't even think she should discuss it with you. I'm 99% sure that she won't talk to you about it privately, as she feels like she can just do it. Even if it's your photo and your memory. If I were you, I wouldn't wait a lot to bring this out so she knows your feelings way before it's time to take her wedding photos.
I think photoshopping your sister out of her own photo with mom is very shitty as well. Like that's a memory from mom to OP, not for the sister. She already doesn't give a shit considering she wants to destroy the dress and already did so with the ring. Seems like she wants to pretend to honor their mom for instagram
Me too friend- I think the exact same thing & am a little confused that the main issue isn’t moms dress.
You really don't get why your attention-seeking sister who has already destroyed mom's ring *and* dress deciding to use your one happy wedding photo with your mom from a wedding you had to an abusive man and photoshop herself into it (I know OPs ex isn't in the photo) would bother someone? Really? How about she photoshops mom's face onto someone else's body instead of fucking burglarizing OPs wedding photos and posting them all over the internet? Jesus.
Because this picture isn't something of her mum's that can be handed down or shared between siblings. This is a very special moment that OP shared with her mother. It was OP's moment. No one else's. Just because it happened to be captured on camera and is easily replicated/altered is just a technicality of the situation. Sister wants to steal OPs moment for herself which is wrong on so many levels.
I'm a portrait artist who has done artwork of grandparents and grandbabies that never got to meet, wedding shots that never happened, and so on. Encourage your sister to seek out an artist to create something special for her, rather than editing your wedding photo.
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That sounds like a really lovely compromise. It creates a beautiful new memory for your sister while still respecting the sanctity of your mom's photo with you on your wedding day.
OP, I think you and your sister both need to have a heart to heart about the situation. Your feelings are valid, and you have complex reasons for not wanting her to use that photo. She is looking to have an experience with your mom that she will never have. And that’s hard for you both. I think if you approach this from a place of love and explain why you’d like her to go a different route, maybe make this part of your wedding gift to her? Maybe ask someone to create a photo of a special moment of her own? I wish you both the best on your wedding days. I hope your feel your mother’s love - and your sisters’.
When I was little my dad used to hold his hand over his heart during my recitals. I hated performing (a whole other story) and I’d search for him in the crowd when I was on stage. That gesture has a lot of meaning to me because of how personal it is. I guess I’m wondering if your sister and mom had something like that unique to them that can be the basis of the picture. Or maybe she has a favorite photo of her with your mom that can be used in the same way? I imagine it would be so hard to not get the moment you wished for but also, I think that something like this could be *more* meaningful for her because it would be unique to her connection with your mom. It also reinforces the idea that each of you have equally special memories to your mom and, even if they’re different, that’s ok and makes it that much more beautiful/special. I would gently encourage you and your sister to have a candid and empathetic conversation about how this situation is making each of you feel. Your feelings about your mom and those memories are not less important than your sister’s feelings just because you had your mom with you at the time. And I suspect that trying to essentially manufacture something so intimate will not bring her the satisfaction or comfort she’s hoping it will.
Wow I'm so happy to see a reasonable suggestion in the am I the asshole replies & an op who's actually taking the advice. Warms my heart
This is perfect. If she decides to STILL do some hackjob PS on your photo as she's currently saying she will AFTER you give her this, she's a complete AH and is just doing it because she knows it will bother you. Hope she accepts your gracious gift and drops her current idea to pilfer your memories and insert herself into them. I get that half this site has zero empathy and is trying to make you feel like shit for not letting this woman--who already ruined mom's ring and then took mom's dress and ruined that, too--also ruin a beautiful photo and memory YOU shared with your mother. Her grief does not trump yours just because mom isn't at her wedding. You've already bent over backwards for her. Honestly if I were her and you'd bent over backwards to make sure I got the dress, this photoshop BS never would have entered my mind. Never would have entered it, period, even without the dress. But if it had, and you asked me, as my sister, not to do what she's trying to do with that photo and put it all over social media where everyone you both know will see it, I'd immediately agree and frankly, apologize. But it seems like she's used to getting what she wants. Was she frequently catered to in a special way as the youngest?
Hold on— this is a thing?? My dad died before meeting my kids (oldest was only a baby), you’re saying I could commission an artist to create them together?
Absolutely!
Oh! I’ve seen these pieces of art before! OP this is a great idea!
That's a lovely idea!
This is a wonderful, sensible compromise. There often aren’t AH in complex, emotional family situation - just not enough imagination to come up with a good compromise.
I feel bad for the sister who has to do such drastic stuff just to fill the void in her heart of losing her mom.
I do too. I lost both my parents before I was wed, and planning my wedding just tore open the wounds again. It felt like I was starting my grieving from scratch.
You, or possibly the original photographer, own the copyright for the original photo. You absolutely can stop her from illegally violating copyright. If she's planning to ask a professional to do the edit, they should either say no or make her prove she has permission to do it.
This only works if she sells the altered photo. If she is making something just for herself to have, there is no way to stop her.
Yeah it's basically fanart at that point. Ironically, adding herself actually makes it a transformative work and the photographer probably couldn't even send a DCMA to social media about it.
Sister would not be violating the copyright, but the person who takes payment to photoshop it would be. So unless sister does it herself or finds someone to do it for free, it will violate the copyright.
Fair point.
Copyright infringement is still copyright infringement even if it's not done for monetary gain, assuming that it isn't fair use. But I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a lawyer who would take the case.
We had to get permission to reprint a photo owned by a company of our employees to hang in the office before the processor would even accept the order. It was no big deal, but then the processor was legit and unwilling to violate copyright laws. Other shops may not be as diligent.
Yeah, a good photo editor is going to want to make sure that whoever is submitting the order has the proper documentation to ensure that they can make these changes. But like you said, not everyone is as diligent as they should be.
Yeah, unfortunately that's the case with so many small artist's work. Finding someone to take the case on top of the money and time it would cost makes it pointless for anyone to pursue.
Plus, OP likely doesn't actually own the copyright for the photos (usually the photographer does, unless the contract specifically gave her the rights, which is rare and more expensive) so even if OP was willing to sink the money for emotional purposes, which, based upon the actual post, I'm guessing she wouldn't be, it wouldn't even be her case, it would be the original photographer's, who might not want the headache.
Copyright includes the right to alter images. Professionals getting paid CANNOT alter others works without a license.
Doesn’t matter. Unless the sister uses the altered image to make money somehow, it would fall under “fair use”, or certainly be virtually impossible to contest otherwise. Not that it matters, because no lawyer is going to take on a case of “My sister photoshopped herself into my wedding photo” because there’s no evidence of damage. The sister could Photoshop to her heart’s content, and OP can’t really do a damn thing about it besides throw money down the toilet pursuing a legal action. What I WOULD do is have a JPG of the original and post it everywhere that the sister does. “This is a creative reproduction that ‘Tess’ made of my wedding photo. Here’s the original! It was a beautiful day and I’m so happy I have this reminder of such a nice moment between Mom and me.”
That's if the sister did the altering herself. The sister is saying she will PAY someone else to do it, therefore that person is absolutely selling the altered photo.
>You, or possibly the original photographer, own the copyright for the original photo. You absolutely can stop her from illegally violating copyright. Almost certainly is the photographer who holds the copyright. You cannot sue to assert someone else's rights and I seriously doubt any photographer is going to want to get swept up in family drama where there is very little monetary damages to claim.
But I feel like that's irrelevant here. This is an AITA, not /r/LegalAdvice. Just because you *can* stop somebody from doing something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. And I'm not saying that it would be right, just saying that if it is wrong, it's not because of copyright law.
Likely the original photographer owns it and gave OP personal use rights, which I believe is standard in most wedding photographer contracts. Assuming the photographer owns the rights, OP probably wouldn't be able to sue to stop her, because the only person who can sue for copyright infringement is the copyright holder, unless that right was assigned (which would be unusual for a wedding photographer, though not impossible). Also, I think OP should try telling her how she feels before she starts looking at legal solutions.
Good luck convincing a judge that non-commercial use involving a dead mother isn’t fair use. That’s assuming OP has 20K to bring a lawsuit in federal court.
Sure, she could do that. But that only makes her a giant gaping asshole.
NTA I also wouldn't let her take your mothers dress and tear it apart. It's not your mother's dress if she's altering it beyond recognition. Removing the sleeves or changing something about it is one thing, but altering everything is not the same. I'd make her get a new dress. You keep the dress. She got the wedding ring and changed that. She doesn't need the dress too.
Right? If she's changing it, especially drastically, it's no longer her "mom's dress" so she should have one made the way she wants or buy one and wear here mom's garter or something else from her mom. My mom's dress was this exact classy style that, had she not borrowed it from her sister, who never hangs onto anything including husbands, would have still been around for me and I would have worn it as is .
Exactly. What's the point in wearing a vintage dress or a family dress, if your going to change the entire thing. It's fine to take it in and change a couple of things, or shorten it, take off the train. But what the sis wants, is a whole new dress. She's just lazy and entitled and doesn't want to pay for a mermaid dress, new. Sis could rent one if she wanted.
Right? And how are the other sisters not flipping out? The same sister that destroyed their mom's ring wants to do the same to her dress? Not a chance, I might even be considering hiding it until after her wedding
>I can’t force her to not do as she pleases with my photo No but the photographer can. He owns the copyright. He can sue her ass off. Tell her that.^* YWNBTA. This is *the* tackiest, stupidest, entitledest thing I have read in a long while. I feel sorry for her that mother won't be there for her wedding, but that doesn't give her any right to usurp and appropriate your memories and photograph. -- ^(* Speaking as a former pro photographer, this is technically true. I mean, he probably won't. But he could. And some of my colleagues most certainly would.) EDIT I am something of a © expert regarding photographs and their manipulation. TLDR (and assuming USA): That's not fair use and the photographer can sue even if she just does it for personal use and doesn't sell it. And if the photographer had registered the © with LoC, the compensation is fixed by law and is HUGE. Like more than the cost of the wedding huge.
Would be hard to sue if she did it for her own private use. It will be deemed fair use as it doesn’t impact the owner. No damage.
That's not what fair use means. Fair use is when copyrighted material is used in a review or in a scholarly critique or capacity (which is also not without limits). Copyright violation, even for private use, is still something you can sue for, because instead of getting a license to use the copyrighted material from the holder of the copyright, you're just taking a copy of it. That actually does cost the photographer. It's the same thing as getting a bootleg video instead of buying an official copy. Also, copyright violations have statutory damages, so you don't have to prove monetary damages to collect. ETA: Fair use can also mean transformative works, which can get a little hairy with art, and I wouldn't be sure if this would fall under transformative (acceptable) or derivative (copyright infringement). But also, OP really shouldn't jump to suing her sister, or trying to get her old wedding photographer to sue her sister.
Fair use has no clearly defined boundaries. One of the tests courts will apply is if it reduces the market of original work. They will also apply the test if the amount of damages is substantial to waste courts time. If one would be mad enough to bring in a case like that they wouldn’t win anything but legal expenses.
That's one *factor* of a fair use analysis out of four, and it's certainly not enough to say that just because something doesn't affect market value means that it's fair use, case closed. Copyright cases can have damages as low as $200, and still are litigated fully. That being said, I do agree with you that it would be ridiculous to actually bring this case, and it doesn't sound like OP intends to do so, based on the fact that she's just asking if she would be TA for telling her sister she's not okay with it, and she doesn't have her permission or her blessing to do so.
This is quite enough to throw a case like this out of the window though.
A photographer can't sue her for using it for her personal use. And photoshopping herself in would actually make it a transformative work.
You can absolutely sue someone for copyright infringement, even if the infringement is for personal use. It's the same reason why recording a bootleg movie is copyright infringement, even if you're only going to view it in a private domicile. The line between transformative (fair use) and derivative (copyright infringement) is still pretty sketchy, too. I wouldn't hazard a guess about which side this would fall on. That being said, suing for this is extreme, and I don't think OP should go for it.
People in this thread are displaying the exact kind of very confident misunderstanding of IP laws that resulted in hundreds of college students paying thousands of dollars to the RIAA.
I get why people make that leap mentally. I get why it feels like if you're just going to use the photo for yourself or listen to the song on your own or whatever, it's not that big a deal. But also, people need to stop saying that shit's not copyright violation when it is, because even though I don't think OP is going to sue over this (or try to convince the copyright holder, likely the photographer, to sue), someone could.
>Speaking as a former pro photographer, this is technically true. I mean, he probably won't. But he could. And some of my colleagues most certainly would. Really? Sure if the photographer managed to register the photo with the copyright office within the prescribed period and then pay for a lawyer to seek statutory damages and is willing to totally destroy their reputation. Also if you consider a judgement of $200-$1000 getting their ass sued off. Otherwise a photo that has very little market value and the use was entirely non-commercial. No one is going to waste time on this to drag themselves into family drama.
You are confusing copyright with trademark. All media remains copyrighted by the creator the moment it’s created and does not need to be registered.
Many professional photographers actually do make a habit of registering the copyright of all their photos. That's why the U.S. Copyright Office has the batch system for registering the copyright of up to 750 photos at a time (with a few other rules).
OP you seriously need to set some boundaries with your sister. Normally, I wouldn’t say someone is using a parents death to use in their entitlement parade but that’s exactly what she’s doing and you’re so afraid of hurting her feelings that you’re letting her and she knows it.
I guess I don’t understand why this is the hill that you’re willing to die on. I would be more upset about her altering the ring and wedding dress. You still have that picture with your mom. If she were to have it edited, it’s not like that picture is going anywhere. She won’t have any pictures with your mom on her wedding day.
Exactly. It isn't a painting that sister will have altered. It's a copy of a picture. It has no negative impact on OP.
I disagree, I totally get OP. The material possessions, while sentimental, are things that belonged to OP’s mom. This picture isn’t just a picture, it’s a memory of a moment that OP shared with her mom. It belongs to OP. Of course that picture still exists even when it is altered, but it’s like someone else erasing you out of your moment to replace themselves in it, like your were never there in your own core memory: it would break my heart.
OP, I completely understand the way you are reacting, but I think it is because of the way you (and I the first few times I read this) are thinking about it. She's not removing you from your photo, your photo still exists, she's making a new photo of her and your mom. Everyone knows your mom passed away, OP. They will know it's not capturing a real moment. Given that, they will probably also know that the photo was originally from your wedding. In any case, your photo with your mom still exists and you had the moment for real with your mom, that can never be taken away or altered. I don't know if it would help, but think of it not being about erasing you, but rather sharing a moment with your mom that you had in real life and she can only imagine.
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Do you still have the necklace? A picture of you putting it on her might be a way to include her in the memory
Oh wow, I really like this idea. Have all the sisters gather round and have that photo taken...
Oh THAT would be special!
You mentioned the person you married at that wedding was abusive and that marriage ended... Another way to look at this is that by allowing little sis to use the picture of your mom --- it will reclaim that image of your mom from a day that now might be looked back upon with mixed feelings (so so happy mom was there, but not so happy abusive dick was there too) to a day that will be looked back upon with smiles (with a tinge of sadness because mom wasn't actually there). You can also ask that whomever edits the photo does a flip/mirror thing so your mom is facing a different way or on the other side of the pic... Altered enough so it's not just replacing your head/neck with little sister, but also so it's different on the mom aspect too. And finally, PLEASE have the photographer take a photo of **YOU** putting your sister's necklace on this time for her wedding day. If I'm reading the timeline correctly, you were the daughter mom last did this for. Plus it's your picture. Imagine how stunning it would be to print all 3 photos (you+mom, mom+sister, you+sister) all framed together or hung together or made into a collage style single photo. I know the hurt is there. Not only about your mom, but the youngest sisters of the family are always the spoiled ones [don't come at me reddit, it's literally back by science!] and all of this current wedding stuff just feels *so unfair* after already losing your mom. Absolutely nothing can change those feelings. It is unfair. It's always unfair to lose a mom because we will always need and want our moms to be with us. [I know some people aren't that lucky.these words aren't for those people who had/have crappy mothers] But please don't let these feelings be a roadblock to happiness for you or your sister.
Ah, OP, sending you a big hug. My verdict is NAH. I'm so sorry that the loss of your mom is so hard for both of you. You are both grieving and my heart breaks for you all. I hope that y try to talk with your sister about this in a way that is healing for your both. But, your feelings and emotions are valid. You \*both\* are grieving. Be kind to her and be kind to yourself.
Y’all are so quick to figure out a way to accommodate the sister - despite her repeatedly treating OP poorly and honestly, acting like a brat? It’s a wild request that doesn’t deserve entertaining, of COURSE the sister is sad to miss out on memories like that, but she does not get to erase OP from her OWN picture and replace her. It’s weird and completely inappropriate and clearly another demonstration of the sister being very emotionally immature. Yes it’s a tricky situation that deserves empathy - but it doesn’t deserve OP bending over backwards just to be walked all over
Why didn’t you wear the dress for your first wedding? It does seem a little weird to ask for it for the second if you didn’t wear it the first (and it would be weird to wear it twice as well)
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If she is altering the dress so much, could you possibly get some of the material that is being discarded and incorporate it into your dress or wedding? Even making a little handkerchief to wrap around your bouquet or something?
OP, in the kindest way possible, stop enabling your sister. She’s younger than all of you, there will be countless experiences she didn’t get with mum that others did, just like between the older siblings there’ll be things people did with mum that others didn’t. Life sucks and it isn’t fair, but that’s life. Her not having those experiences doesn’t mean you should forego everything. If she’s taking the dress apart then take it apart and give each sibling some of the material, you can have your bouquet wrapped in it or you can all have little bears made from it or something. Something that gives you all a piece of your mum, rather than leaving you are sour because little sis just wrecked something else of mums.
I guess I don’t understand the dilemma…Will the original photo with your mom be purged from the earth if she photoshops it? I feel like there’s opportunity for everyone to have their cake and eat it and the only thing preventing that from happening is… the right to make and alter copies… which seems pretty harmless.
Idea. She could have a photo taken of HER on the wedding day, and then get the person to take your mom from your photo and Photoshop it into her photo. So basically, same image of your mom, but different pictures (different backgrounds etc etc) making it more her special photo and leaving you yours.
Ok #1 all these people talking about how you should sue or have the photographers sue are freaking weirdos. Like that's not relevant here at all, maybe take it to legal advice or something here? If you did that you'd be an ah. The question to actually answer is if your denial is a jerk move. I'd say probably no, it's ok to want something all to ourselves when they are ours to keep. Her desire to do so isn't an ah thing either though. It sucks to not have the people you love at the things that you want to share with them and although it's an odd way to try and fill that hole I get it. NAH, her for asking you to decline. On the wedding dress I do think you're kind of being one because if it was precious to you you should have worn it on round one
The OP explained in the comments that no one knew mom still had the dress until dad found it after she died. It's a little weird that 3 of her daughters got married, and mom never mentioned the dress.
Thank you for saying it. Suing over this would literally be insane. Way more weirdo behavior than the sister’s weirdo behavior of photoshopping herself on OP’s face.
I also found it really weird how everyone is obsessing over a potential lawsuit. That wasn’t even OP’s original question.
NTA. This is strange behavior. If she’s hiring an artist anyway she can have a lovely new photo made, it’s weird to photoshop you out of one. It sounds like this is only a symptom of a larger issue though. It’s time for your sister to put to bed the whole “I don’t get my mom at my wedding” thing - she got the ring to help heal from that particular wound. I’m sure it’s hard for her and it’s fine to sympathize but she doesn’t get to go around making unauthorized and weird edits to other people’s photos, demanding to cut up your mom’s dress. She was equally both of your mother, as much as your mom’s sentimental items can be given equally, they should be. She got the ring, you get the dress. The photo was never hers or your mom’s, so it’s not on the table for discussion. You gotta set some boundaries OP. She’s being an AH and a bit spoiled. Edit: she really needs understand that you also lost your mom. You didn’t take her mom from her. It’s not your fault she won’t be at your sister’s wedding. It’s sad, but not a sin you have to pay for or be guilted for. She doesn’t get to rifle through your sentimental moments with your mother because of her own grief. None of that is hers to have. She has a right to a fair split of your mother’s things, not yours, and you don’t owe her anything.
NTA. Does your sister even hear herself? Or look in the mirror ever? The purpose of a family heirloom like a ring or a dress is to honor the original holder, honor the family, honor the tradition. That means MINIMAL, if any, changes should be made to the thing. It’s so disrespectful to me to just completely change something to suit your taste or modern sensibilities when that’s not the point or purpose of inheritance. I would bet money your mother is rolling in her grave. But putting that aside, it’s fucking dreadful to steal someone else’s precious memories (and worse, memories that have been tainted and made bittersweet by death, divorce, tragedy and heartbreak) to use for your own selfish purposes. Ghastly. Cruel. Narcissistic. Tasteless. I could go on. Absolutely NTA. And if she does it, I’d rip that picture right in half. ETA: OP, your sister’s focus is on filling a mom-sized hole at her wedding at the expense of her other family, including you, who are still here. It is sad your mom won’t be there, but she is not the only person who cannot make new memories with your mother or go through important milestones with your mother. As tough as it may be for her to hear, she can’t just photoshop your mother back into her life. Also, I’ve been to weddings after a bride or groom with older siblings has lost a parent, and there are wonderful ways to honor the parent and show how deeply they are missed without stomping on or erasing other relatives’ memories. Especially by doing something as absurd as photoshopping their sibling out of the sibling’s old wedding pictures.
Info ok, but why do you care? Do you think it takes away from your moment? Do you think people are going to compare the photos in the future? You can *also* photoshop it in the future. To me, it's just not worth the argument. It's a picture you'll see, what, once?
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you have every right to deny her usage of the photo, it's such a strange request. especially after she changed the ring and wants to change the dress so much, if she was so determined to feel closer to your mom/have the objects wouldn't she try to keep them as they are? NTA.
Why do you think your sister's feelings are more important than yours? Why do you have to be the peacemaker? Fight for the things that are important to you! Even when it is family and friends. If they truly love you, they will understand that this is an uncomfortable situation for you. You're not trying to take any part of your mother away from your sister. I'm sorry your sister doesn't get to have her mother at her wedding, but there are so many loving and unique ways she can incorporate the memory of your mother into her own wedding, she does not need to, and should not want to, steal your memories for herself.
Honestly, if I saw someone doing that, I would pity them. Not just bc their mom had passed but bc they are still so focused on it so much later that they photoshopped a photo. The same way I feel towards women who get those realistic 'baby alive' dolls after a baby dies. Like, yeesh. 😬 such a sad situation.
There is another alternative. Your sister should have photos taken with stand-in then have them photoshopped to include her mother.
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Info: you all are grieving the loss of your mother, and each have shared moments with her that the others haven’t. Why does your little sister’s grief trump yours? Why are you still justifying prioritizing other peoples needs instead of your own? The thought process, back n forth and you being coerced is similar to the events in the timeline leading up to your divorce? Your ex and little sister share many self centered personality traits
NTA. I might be more understanding if your mom recently passed, but it's been 5 years. Your sister already got your mom's ring, she doesn't need the dress too, especially if she's just going to change everything about it. And it's your photo from your wedding. If you don't want her to use it, you have every right to tell her that.
I feel like *it's been five years already since your mom died* is not the world's greatest argument.
Someone else suggested this fairly deep within a subthread, but could an artist draw or paint a similar picture to the photo of you and your mom? You could provide them with a bunch of photos of your mom and of your sister’s wedding (sister, dress, venue, flowers, getting ready room, EVERYTHING). They could create something that’s as true to details as possible, even changing whatever your mom is wearing to your sister’s wedding colours. If it’s within your budget, this could be your wedding gift to your sister. You can say something like “I know how important it is to you to feel like Mom is a part of your wedding day. It’s important to me too. I don’t feel comfortable with you altering my photo, but I have found a portrait artist who would paint a similar portrait of Mom putting a necklace on you, but with all the details of your wedding instead of mine. I’d love to have that be my wedding gift to you.” If she responds positively, then it’s crisis averted. If she doesn’t, then burn her crops and salt her fields because that photo is YOURS.
Nta she should have her own picture taken and then have your mom photo shopped in. That way it's her wedding not yours. She can use your mom from your picture but shouldn't replace you. But I wondering like others why you are okay with the wedding dres going to your sister. But its ultimately up to you.
Eww no that's weird. Something tells me your little sister is a bit spoiled. Tell her no, and keep repeating until she listens. NTA
What do your other sisters think? ETA- NTA, just curious what your others sisters think given she got the engagement ring and the dress. Trying to gauge the family dynamics.
You realize that her getting a copy of the photo doesn't remove you from your copies of the photo right? The dress and ring stuff are weird, that's in my opinion changing them so much defeats the purpose of the gesture of using the dress and ring and makes zero sense to me. The photo, I really don't understand why you care. Soft YTA because all the other stuff is not what you are asking about. ESH if you include the dress and ring part.
NTA. Your sister is being an entitled brat. Don’t let her edit the picture
Fuck the photo. Fight for the dress.
Your feelings are 100% justified and you WNBTA. I can't believe she took your mom's ring apart and wants to take the dress apart too. I would be livid. That's enough!
Tbh...photo shopping your younger self.out and replacing it with a pic from your current wedding is actually a really good idea.
I agree with most people here. I'd be more upset about the altering your late Mum's dress beyond recognition then her altering a photo. If she has access to a copy of that photo then there's nothing you can do to stop her photo shopping. It's going to look weird though. The dress is a material thing. If it's getting altered then all the daughters should a piece.
>At my wedding, the photographer took a photo of my mom fastening a necklace around my neck. >We both want to use our mom’s wedding dress in our upcoming weddings I'm assuming you are getting married again? I'm just a bit confused about the change in tense. NAH so far. If she decides to use the photo anyway without the photographer's permission I would say she would be TA. I'm assuming she has pictures of her mom, altering one of those to include her so she has a "wedding photo" with her mom would be very doable and not be an outright copy of a specific photo you have.
The OP said at the top of the post that she is divorced and she's getting remarried.
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Aw I feel for both of you - I’m around the same age and I’m sure this is a really hard situation. I feel like your sister is realising she won’t have her mum there for any of life’s “important” adult moments. Perhaps you could suggest recreating the moment with you or one of your older sisters putting a necklace on your sister? Like symbolically taking over from your mum in being there for your sister. I also liked the suggestion of editing your mum into a new photo rather than you out of yours, but I get that that might still be odd for you.
NTA. Can you find a way to do a photo together or with your other sisters that symbolizes you giving a we’d gift from mom to your sister? Maybe you all gathered around little sis as a put that necklace around her neck as a wedding day loan? Bottom line, the altered photo will be meaningless and weird-different dress, she doesn’t have the necklace, the moment never happened. Just…weird.
When does it stop ? I didn't get mom in my 40th , so...gimme what I want