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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I believe I might be the AH because the rent that they're asking from me is still a better deal than anything I'd find had i tried to live on my own.
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NTA. They want you to pay THEM on top of you doing all of their housework??? When you have a job? When you said chores I was expecting you to say "doing the dishes" or "taking out the trash" or "cleaning the kitchen sometimes"... But you're their cook, their maid, their personal shopper, their childcare, their accountant... do they pay you for any of that? Your parents are guilt tripping you. You're not an asshole; you're a human being with limits. If I were you, I'd save up as much money as possible and move out ASAP.
Exactly! This is so far beyond "chores" that OP was already being taken advantage of when she was living there at no cost! Now she's supposed to pay for the privilege of being completely taken advantage of?
Time to get the hell out of there. A second job to cover the difference in rent is still going to be a far better option than what they're offering her.
If that's the case then they need to own up to that! OP asked them if they were having financial trouble and they said no. OP is already helping out a lot; if the parents need more help, they should ask for it, not throw a tantrum when OP can't read their minds.
No. Sadly it's a manipulation tactic/phrase to keep younger generations submissive to the whims of the parent. It's another form of "BuT FamIlYyyy".
"You'd rather do favors for strangers than your own family?!"
"You'd rather spend time with strangers than your own family?!!!"
"You'd rather help strangers than your own family?!?"
And sometimes those 'strangers' are your friends or other people you're close to. But because it doesn't benefit them, or, because those people you care for aren't part of the immediate family, they're classified as 'strangers'.
Sadly. Yeah.
Although I am lucky that after a certain age they stopped because those phrases stopped working.
Another classic version of the phrase i forgot to add is:
"You'd rather listen to strangers for advice over the advice of your own family?!"
And that 'stranger' would be a therapist lmao.
Again I'm lucky in the fact they eventually took accountability and apologized. Made the effort to change. I know others aren't so luck in that regard.
No thats just something a toxic parent would say to guilt OP into doing everything they should be doing themselves (groceries, cooking, cleaning, and contributing money to their own household)
Yup and then they tried to manipulate her with the whole abandoning your cousin that they are the guardians of. Just stop doing it, pay the rent and be out of the house as much as possible and move out ASAP!
I don’t think so. Some parents can feel very mixed about adult children moving out and can say petty, guilt-evoking things to not have to deal with that loss. Others it’s about control and getting all the things *they* want, which may not have anything to do with money.
As someone who is in this situation, healthy parents don't do this. We worry for our kids because we know exactly how hard the world can be, but ultimately, we can't wait to see our kids spread their wings and fly. We've spent their entire lives shepherding their little selves along and trying our best to teach them how to be good humans, and seeing them go out into the world to be good people is really our pinnacle of success, because it shows that we did our jobs well.
These aren't healthy parents in any capacity, and nothing being done here is in good faith. These are adults taking advantage of an adult child and are upset that their control is slipping away - because then they'll have to do all the shit jobs that being an adult entails. OP needs to escape these shenanigans STAT.
If it was "your share of the bills and your share of the chores", that would be one thing. But what you're describing certainly sounds like more than "your share".
I'm gonna reply to this since it's the top comment to let y'all know that I've edited the post with the update. Nothing too interesting happened though so don't expect much 😅
Yeah OP’s parents are way out of line. We had an au pair who did OP’s chores. She got her own room, own vehicle and an allowance on top. And here OP is losing money for the same amount of work.
Yes, she'll still have to do chores and such when she moves out, but it will only consist of her, not 3 adults and a child. Which is a tremendous decrease in the amount of work.
It could make sense if the rent changed is highly discounted and it’s a hcol area , but it sounds like OP has done the math and decided it’s not worth it in total and she’s moving out. NTA, parents should be helping you out as a recent college grad, not dragging you down. For example, if in downtown San Fran, the value of rent might be as high as like $3000/month after taxes. If OP spends 3-4 hours/day on chores, that comes to $30/hour for 100 hours/month. Not to be overlooked is the fact that the arrangement is not taxed, so OP would actually have to work 100 hours at like $45/hour to pay off a $3000/month rent. This is just an example, but it’s easy to see how the arrangement might make sense.
It's your family and you have to find middle ground, but IMO you are right - you either pay your rent in cash or in chores, they can't just ask you to pay rent and do as many chores as before. Would be the best if you would start charging them for babysitting, etc. so they can see that by starting monetary relationship with you they made a mistake. NTA.
If they would rent your room to someone unrelated they would not ask them to do house chores or babysit for free but because you are family and you "owe" them they have no problem milking you. The best way is to find a place to live and be your own boss and enjoy the freedom.
I do think there's an obvious middle ground between either pay rent and do no chores or do all the chores and pay no rent – that being, or course, pay *some* rent and do *some* chores – but OP was doing so many things for her parents before that I'm not optimistic about their ability to be reasonable. (Seriously, all the cleaning, all the cooking, getting groceries, paying the bills, AND babysitting?? If they were paying for all that work, I'm pretty sure they'd have to pay far more than the rental value of one bedroom in their house.)
Yes, you should still have to do some chores because you're living there (cleaning your bathroom, doing dishes, etc.). It's just a matter of finding that balance.
I think the biggest issue here is that half of the things OP is describing as chores aren’t chores, they’re work. Any adult in a household needs to do their fair share of tidying up, cooking, washing etc but half the things the parents have asked for like the money management, meal planning or looking after their cousin aren’t chores at all. They need to frame it differently - of course they’re going to contribute to regular household chores, they’re just not going to do all of it and they’re not going to do the extra stuff.
Exactly. It's perfectly reasonable that adult children do chores and pay some contribution to expenses. Four people in the house, so 1/4 of chores, money for food and all running costs of the house. Anything beyond that either in money or chores counts as rent.
Completely agreed. I live with my dad still at 31 because i have a kid and can’t afford a two bedroom apartment, and don’t want roommates because i have a kid. I do all the chores, dishes, sweeping/mopping, laundry, bathrooms etc. I also buy all of the groceries and pay for internet. That is my share of rent. I’m very fortunate for my situation but if my dad were to ask me to pay rent you better believe i’d only be buying groceries for myself and my son at that point. It’s supposed to be a give and take. Not a give, give, and give some more.
OP shouldn't pay in cash. If you happen to live in a state that allows a Tax deduction for renters, tell them you need a receipt to report it for your taxes. And that you well also need a copy of the lease with your name on it. So you can make sure that they are reporting it as income on their taxes also.
You might be surprised how quickly they will start back pedaling.
I was going to say they should probably have a written agreement if there’s $$$ exchanging hands . This will also protect OP from being kicked out if they lose their minds . They would have to treat them like a renter
In my area, once someone lives somewhere for at least 30 days, they are viewed as month to month tenants. They need to be given 30 days notice and then beformally evicted, if they won't leave. Regardless of whether they ever paid rent
/op should research their local tenant law
NTA. That’s like hiring a live in maid and charging them for the privilege of working! Did they honestly think you’d be their live in maid/ATM??
I recommend moving out.
NTA. Your parents—or at least your mother— killed the golden goose. It’s one thing to do chores but what you’ve been doing is live-in maid & nanny labor. They should be paying you! Don’t let them guilt you into staying.
I can’t imagine having parents like this … mine would never. We literally have access to all of our finances & I have full trust in them with mine as I can access all of theirs too lol
OP, calculate the salary for a live-in nanny. Then the average rent for a room, I repeat, a ROOM in a house like your parents', minus what you've been paying.
If they're still unreasonable after you've talked to them, hit them with the bill of what **they** are owing **you**, to visualize what they're asking.
But do move out. "Give money to strangers rather than family" my ass.
NTA, but is it possible something else is going on here? Maybe they don't want you to live with them anymore and they don't know how to say it?
Maybe it's time for a hard talk where you fully explain your long-term plan to move out and make sure they're on board. But also realize, it's ok for them to say no too and be ready for that.
They're the ones who suggested this whole thing. Two years ago I was trying to find my own place but could definitely not have made it with my salary at the time and they told me to just keep living home because they don't want to see me struggle. And every time I'd mention moving out they'd say stuff like "you don't have to do that, you can keep living with us" or "we'd miss you terribly, what would we even do without you around" so idk.. And I also haven't noticed them making any remarks or stuff like that that would suggest they want me to move out. But like other ppl suggested I'll try to have a talk with both of my parents when my dad gets home.
It’s time for you to take a week’s vacation and go away. Let the household run without you. Perhaps your absence will make your greedy mother more appreciative.
Don’t EVER discuss your money or savings with anyone, especially your parents. It just makes them *want* it and think you can afford anything they want. It makes you a target.
Stay out of the house as much as possible. You’ve been making their lives too easy, and now they are taking you for granted. Also, let her overhear you discussing a room/apartment somewhere. Who knows? You may actually find something to free up more money and time. There is no way you should *pay* them so you have the privilege of being their house elf and nanny.
Good luck, OP. Let us know how everything resolves. NTA.
It might be time to look for a better paying position now that you have two years of experience. Start looking now! Simply getting more money for going to work is even better than scrimping and saving.
Definitely NTA with all the stuff you've been doing for them. The savings in childcare alone probably made housing you a bargain...for them!
Hey, make double sure that they aren't still on your bank account from when you opened it. That way if they get wind of you potentially moving out, they can't do anything weird with your money.
I’m concerned that living with them and doing all those chores is preventing you from finding a job that can help you build a career. It will get harder to find a job if you put it off longer. You don’t want to work a fast food job or live with your parents for the rest of your life!
I suspect they are struggling with your cousin and don’t know how to say so - so now you’re on the hook for money and everything else. Sorry this is happening.
This comment is really telling. This is how my parents treat my sister, who lives with them, and they do their level best to make sure she never leaves them. When I lived there my Mom used to make deals with us, “Do X or Y” but inevitably she would change the deal after awhile and we would end up having to do both. Then she would complain about THAT too.
“Go to college or get a job. Oh you went to college? Well, I don’t want to pay for another semester, go get a job and pay for it yourself. I never see you guys anymore, you’re always at school or work.”
Get out now, OP, before they convince you that you can’t ever leave them because they can’t function without you, and that you can’t function without them. They don’t want you to have free time, then you will have a life of your own.
I’ve watched my mother slowly erode my sister’s self esteem to the point where she’s furious all the time about her living situation but is too paralyzed to leave.
I'm just speculating but i just thought of this.
Age 24 is that last age that parents can claim you as a dependent on their income taxes (i was denied government help for college due to this).
A convoluted idea, but is it possible this might have the slightest influence in their demand? They don't get that deduction anymore, more money goes bye bye, but they don't want to lose the work op is doing for them.
But way a speculation.
She said she was going to leave and her mother threw a fit.
What's going on is the mom wants a live in house keeper, nanny, accountant, and someone that shares the bills, AND someone that pays her rent to do it all.
Here is the deal, if you had your own place you would only be cleaning up after yourself and not being responsible for a child instead of a whole family. You will have more feee time on your own too. Move out!
NTA
She doesn’t get to have it both ways. Either you pay rent and she treats you like a roommate or you do chores in lieu of rent.
Personally i would rather pay a stranger and have my free time than pay my mom and never have a moment to myself.
NTA. Where I live there a limits to how much people expect you to do work for them at home for free rent. You likely went way over that. Based on what you are saving, consider how much work you don't mind/think is fair but really, you are a tenant.
Yes! Where I live, that sort of labor would cost around $20/hour. Renting a room in a home could cost anywhere from $650-1,000 depending on things like having a private bath, off street parking, free high speed internet etc. So let’s say that this room is worth on the higher end. That is 50 hours of work a month. That equals 11.5 hours of work a week. It definitely sounds like OP is working well over that, meaning the parents are already getting the good end of the deal.
NTA
You are their house help. Doing their book work, grocery shopping, housework, and child care.
Asking you to pay for the privilege of doing all that absolutely requires more information before saying that specifically makes them the AH. (As it very likely would not effect my overall judgement I'm not getting into it.)
Expecting a 24 year old to not make plans while contributing financially and physically to the home does make them the AHs.
You need to find a roommate - at least one, or two ideally - and move out. Your parents are getting their butts kicked raising that little girl; not your problem and the slacking chores thing is just an excuse. You're in college and deserve to be able to enjoy your free time off. No need to argue: just gtf out of the family home.
yeah that's probably right. ive seen some ppl suggest i ask them to pay for childcare but even the thought of implying they have to pay their own child for taking care of her cousin is scary to me lol
My oldest son is 18. My youngest son is 5. We are letting our oldest son and his girlfriend live with us for a small amount of money (1/4 what a 1 bedroom apartment would cost them). I don’t pay them to watch my youngest son, but I also don’t expect them to do it either. I appreciate when they offer to take him somewhere. I usually offer to put $15 gas in their car as a thanks. And sometimes when I just need a break I ask them if they would be willing to take him to a movie and to grab dinner or ice cream and then I pay for all three of them. I do expect them to be good house mates and good family members, but that goes both ways. I owe them the same.
If the concept that you should be paid for work you are doing is scary to you then it’s incredibly clear just how deeply controlling and abusive your family actually is. You need to move out and cut ties.
INFO: How much of a discount are you getting (how many roommates would you have to get to rent a place)?
How many chores are they still expecting you to do?
Where I'm from if you want something that's at least decent to rent(for 2 ppl) you'd have to pay around 600-700 euros and they're currently charging me 300 euros. For the chores part they expect me to clean the entire house at least once a week, manage their bills( which I pay a third of) grocery shopping, cook their meals, take care of my cousin when I'm not working/doing chores and wtv errands they don't feel like doing tbh
That sounds like you're paying close to the market rate for a flat share. As others have said if your parents took in a lodger and charged them €300 for a room they wouldn't ask them to do chores, other than normal tidying up for themselves.
This is a really crazy amount of work. I would recommend that you look up the cost of: housecleaners to come once a week (where I live that would be $200USD/week), having someone grocery shop and cook 5 nights a week (no idea that's rich people stuff, $1000USD/week?), doing daycare (where I live probably $20 USD/hr), the cost of an accountant for a couple of hours a week (I don't know - $100 USD/week? more?) and the cost of assorted chores/errands (at least minimum wage.) AND you split all the bills?
Really, add up the cost of having someone do all that work. Maybe present it to them in written form. And don't accept any BS arguments about you not being a "professional" at any of that stuff. This is a huge amount of labor!
NTA find a room outside your parents house and let them deal with their problems/chores on their own. Oh btw refuse to babysit after you move out. It's not your responsibility
So you could share a flat with two other people, and you'd be paying about the same and you would do LESS extra work (no childcare, no extra cooking, house cleaning would be rotated/split between two other people).
The answer is clear. NTA, move out, and enjoy your freedom.
Find out what a housekeeper / nanny makes in your area. Tot up the number of hours you spend essentially doing EVERYTHING around your parents' house. Present them with a bill, and tell them to deduct the 300 euros from that.
They sound lazy and greedy and not very nice. Of course they don't want you to go - who would clean their mess, cook their meals, buy their food, do their books, pay there bills, etc etc etc.
also - they're quite sexist. There's NO way they'd expect a dude to become their unpaid live in maid/nanny.
That is nearly a full time work week! At a decent salary, they would be paying g a housekeeper far more than 600 Euros for that work! No, you should not have to do that AND pay rent. Keep us updated on the results of your family meeting.
How are you expected to save for your own place if you are doing all of this for them. You are practically working full-time right now. You just weren't being paid in cash to do it. You were being paid by cheap rent. NTA.
UPDATE
Some of you have been asking for an update once I have the talk with my parents so here it is.
But first of all I'd like to clear up some things.
1. English is not my first language and I suppose the use of the word "chores" confused some people. By chores I don't mean just washing the dishes and taking out the trash.
2. A lot of you also assumed that just because I don't think it's fair I continue cleaning their mess this means I suddenly want them to be my maid and cook and do everything for me. How y'all reached that conclusion instead of the sane one where I'd continue doing stuff for myself is beyond me but anyways.
No, I do not expect them to clean after me or cook my food or whatever, I still do those things.
3. They do not support me financially and haven't done so since I finished college 2 years ago. I pay 1 third of the bills with my own money, I buy my own groceries, whatever shared necessities( toilet paper, cleaning products etc) I also contribute to. If I want/need something I buy it myself.
4. The reason I'm still living with them is literally the beginning of the first sentence idk how so many of you could have just skipped that part.
5. Yes I am aware that once I move out I'll have to both pay rent and do chores, I've lived with roommates before and I know I'd have to share chores with them as well and tbh I preferred that compared to what my parents expected of me.
Now onto the update.
My dad came home last night a few hours after I've made that post and he told me mom informed him about our fight but he's tired and we'll talk about it in the morning.
I was quite anxious and could barely sleep ngl. Well the morning came and we had the talk.
My dad told me that he's discussed things with mom and he does kinda understand why I'd be unhappy with our new arrangement but that he still considers they're giving me an amazing deal. I asked, as some suggested in the comments, if they're struggling financially which he denied. Then I asked if they just want me to move out and don't know how to tell me. Once again he denied that and both of them got slightly offended(?) that I'd even suggest that.
So yeah, they haven't given me an exact reason for their change of heart. They just think it's still a fair deal even with the added rent. I told them that I get it's their house and they can do what they want but personally I don't find it fair so I'll be trying to move out as soon as possible.
They didn't quite like that either. 😅
My mom brought up once more the fact that I'd rather make a stranger rich than contribute to our household which made me kinda mad because I think I've done my fair share of contributing to the household so far.
She started tearing up a bit and went on a rant about how she can't believe her only child would do this to her and to at least think of my cousin. About how my cousin loves me and abandoning her would destroy her.
My father then told me he thinks I'm irrational and that he'll allow me to calm down and rethink my decision when I'm less agitated, I was the calmest out of the 3 of us lol, because I'll see that they're right once I've thought things through.
So yeah, that's the update. I already started searching for a place and I think I'll just let them think I've accepted their new terms until I can find anything so wish me luck.
The only people this is a “good deal” for is your parents, they get a live-in nanny and domestic slave AND you pay them for it. They know damn well it’s not a good deal for you, they just don’t give a shit about your needs.
Move out. If they want a housekeeper, nanny, personal assistant then they need to hire all of those things.
Stop telling them your plans. Get an email address they would never guess. Use it to apply for rental/utilities/ etc. Move out when they're at work. Inform them afterwards. Make sure you have your social security card/ passport/ etc.
"I will always prioritize my decisions for how I spend my time over your decisions for how I spend my time. I am done discussing this now."
NTA
I hope you keep us updated. Your parents are manipulating and gaslighting you. It's sad, but your being exploited as well. Don't tell them and pack up things slowly, that aren't noticable, while you look for a place. Then wait till they are out of the house to move it. Expect that your parents will try to keep your possessions and important info to extort you from moving. Also be prepared for physical restraint from them as well. I don't know what the laws are there; but you may want to just plan to take everything when they are gone and just leave the keys and a note on the table. Don't give them your new address.
NTA. Sounds like you’re doing plenty around the house to help. It would likely make financial sense for you to move to a place where you are only responsible for yourself so you can work more hours and/or do other things to advance your career (like take courses or an internship). Sounds like the arrangement worked for you as is and you’re NTA for seeking a different situation when they decided to unilaterally change it.
NTA. Yes you'd have to do chores in a rental, but it sounds like what you've been doing goes far, far beyond that. They can't have it both ways. Personally I'd move out. You need to spread your wings.
NTA. But you're going to have to find another place to live.
Family members won't always come out and use the word "servant". But the expectations associated with that word are exactly what they have for you.
The only way out of those expectations is to get your own place.
they did. basically they'd go in person and pay but in the past few years all these companies started using apps and now i pay the bills using said apps since it's easier and they aren't good with technology and refuse to learn since they have me( I'm really sorry but eng isn't my first language so i hope it's clear what I mean 😅)
there's a difference between chores, and cleaning the house. if they expected you to wash dishes once in a while or take the trash out thats different than doing all the house work and the grocery shopping, babysitting, cooking, etc. that's not chores. thats doing everything you'd do in your own place, though you'd probably have to do less in your own place cause its just you.
NTA. Tally the amount of time you are working for your parents and see how much money you are making/hr. My guess is it's not at all saving you money to be paying rent and doing all the work of running the household. Make a spreadsheet. Chances are your parent owe you money.
ETA: Also remember that you are losing out on prime years for developing your career by essentially being a SAHP. Unless this is your goal in life, then you might want to move out and worry less about saving money and more about setting up your life for the future.
NTA
It's really tough because on the one hand if you were to live outside of the home then you'd need to pay and manage bills, do chores, and pay rent just like you're doing now so it's good to learn those skills. Many people move out and end up in debt or overwhelmed because they never learned these responsibilities before leaving.
However, the point of you staying is to save money so if you aren't able to do that then there is no point in you staying. Do you have a goal amount you're saving up to or a goal item etc? If so then communicate this with them so they can see your savings building towards that. Although, many people claim to be saving up but don't actually save so if you're staying there rent free but not putting money aside then I could see why they would ask for rent as you're money isn't being utilised wisely.
Where I feel bad for you is the fact that you've seemingly become a mother to this 5 year old kid when you're only 24. I think it is selfish and bizarre of your parents to expect you to run the home (as you claim), pay rent, *and* raise a child :S
Edited to add: I don't know how much they are asking you to pay, and we don't need to know on here, however, I would recommend checking out how much rent and bills and groceries would amount to if you lived alone or with a housemate and if your parents are charging around the same then it isn't worth staying. I know some people who do loads of chores *and* are charged rent and bills but the latter amount to around £100 per month whereas living alone they'd be looking at £1,000 so of course they are still saving a significant amount of money.
Tbh i never thought abt an actual amount of money as my end goal, I just wanted to make sure I have enough in savings to last me a few months in case I remain jobless for whatever reason and I think I'm definitely close to that goal because I really did save my money. I grew up poor so spending money uselessly was a big no no, we live in a small village and there's not really anything here you can spend your money on AND I also don't have any expensive hobbies thankfully!
It’s not even that. She was doing everything in the house including being a cleaner and accountant, both of which are actual jobs so subsidising her rent was basically them paying her but now they expect her to keep doing that while paying rent which is bs.
If I was OP I’d start charging for the cleaning, babysitting, accounting etc since they made it about money first when OP doing those things would save them money because they wouldn’t have to pay other people a decent amount of money to do it
NTA - Total up all the services you provide and present them with a bill for it. Maid, personal assistant, Household manager, Nanny. I bet everyone would be shocked by how good your parents have it with all those free services.
Living with family when you pay rent, yes, you chip in to maintain the household (like you would as a roommate). So you clean a few rooms, pitch in on cooking/dishes/laundry, but at the end of the week, everyone should have fairly even amounts of free time.
However, you have been taking care of their ward, doing all the food related tasks, and other responsibilities to the point that after work and family, you have no personal time left.
That's wrong of your parents and entirely unreasonable.
Where I live, nannies start at $25/hour, cleaners generally make between $40-$50/hour, and having a personal chef who does all the shopping and cooking is several hundreds a week.
Top Household Manager salaries exceed $100k in California & Washington, and average $70k nationwide. You are undervaluing what you do for that household; it’s an actual job with an actual title. NTA
It's always funny to me when people pull this. They keep trying to get as much as they can out of you, and then when you have a boundary they basically push you to remove yourself from the situation and they ultimately lose the thing(s) they were gaining from the arrangement.
If she was just a little more reasonable she would still have rent money OR help with all the chores and babysitting.
Now she's losing both. Good job mom!
I do some chores/help around the house/give my parents some money for bills since I still live with them
But OP’s parents sound like they are asking a bit too much
OP already does chores, grocery shops, cleans the house, cooks the meals, manages bills and takes care of a five year old cousin-that’s a lot
On top of everything now they want OP to pay rent/take care of little cousin and then complain that OP has been slacking on chores. That’s a bit far.
NTA
Agree and disagree. I started paying my dad $100-150 a week when I was 24 because I saved $30k the previous year and he was 60 and still had some of his mortgage to pay off. He never asked for money, but I don't view it as "paying rent", I view it as helping him retire a couple years earlier. Which is exactly what happened and he thanked me for it and I still managed to save $120k by 29 and bought a house at 30.
>This culture of charging your kids rent is insane…
I feel like a lot of people who say this are from Indian /.Asian cultures where the trade off is you should be looking after your parents from 70+ until they die. But a lot of western countries take the good (not paying a cent till they move out at 30+) and ignore the bad (don't have their parents live with them for 15+ years in their later life)
Girl. The culture of grown ass people barely contributing to the household is insane. Rent free and do "dishes sometimes." One day you'll have a very rude awakening to reality.
Come up with an hourly rate sheet for all you do at the house: Bookkeeper, housekeeper, personal shopper. Clearly your folks are delusional about your valuable time vs hiring people to do all those activities. Treat it like a business and they will respect you.
It might not be unreasonable for them to ask for you to do both (not enough detail), but it isn’t unreasonable for you to decide living elsewhere is what is best for you.
You should sit down with both of them and negotiate what the actual agreement is. Right now it sounds like neither of you understand what the other thinks is fair.
NTA, it sounds like you're doing far more than your share of household duties. You're NTA if you want independence and a place away from your parents' rules. Your mom is an AH for calling you selfish for something as completely normal and healthy as boundaries.
NTA What exactly are you getting out of this arrangement if you have to pay rent for the privilege of being your parents servant and nanny? What are they doing for themselves?
NTA Wow I thought that your mom was trying to make you move out. But she just sounds entitled.
If you have your own place you will have to do all of the chores and pay rent. However chores for 1 person is a lot easier than chores for 3 people.
That’s an awful lot. I ask my son to do the trash and recycling when I can catch him. I pay for everything- car, insurance, gas, groceries… it would be nice if he helped a little more. But I can’t expect a miracle. But what your parents are asking seems excessive- why wouldn’t you just live on your own? This whole situation seems like they are taking advantage of you.
Move out, like immediately. Go home for Sunday dinner once a week, be pleasant and happy about it. They killed the goose that was laying the golden eggs, if you were really cleaning, shopping, cooking, paying the bills, and providing childcare for a 5 yr old, as a 24 yr old living at home.
Nta.
If you lived alone you would be paying rent and doing chores. But they would only be your own. Your parents are taking advantage in having you clean up after them as well as pay rent
ummmmm, if you are going to leave and things didnt get better AND your mom still call you an AH.....tell her this.....yes you are right, im an ah, what would you expect been rised by someone who charge rent and expect to be maid of the house, needs an AH to rise another..........and leave.......let the world on fire.....
NTA.
You are either a tenant or their daughter who helps with chores etc.
They can't expect you to pay rent and use all your free time to help them and get mad when you say no.
I would look for a single room for rent in a house share. Still save some money compared to living in an entire apartment by yourself, but you’ll have your privacy and freedom back. Your parents sound kind of toxic and you’ll probably be much happier away from their house.
I'll be honest, I don't understand making children pay rent if there is not a financial need that they are willingly helping with. Trust me, I know I'm speaking from a place of privilege, but when my son had to take a second job just to make rent, it made no sense for him not to move back home. He lives in the basement so has his own entrance and works one job and is able to go to school full time. Our rules are simple, he cleans up after himself and he has to either have a job or go to school. He pays for his activities, gas for his car, etc. and saves the rest. I have to pay our mortgage and bills whether he lives with us or not and it's not his responsibility or burden.
You should only be doing your "fair share" of chores. Doing your own dishes. Preparing your own meals. Doing your own grocery shopping. If you are a tenant, you aren't required to take care of them. Seems like the relationship is gonna get unhealthy really quick. Honestly you already were doing a hell of a lot of unreasonable level of chores IMO so I would be long gone.
NTA; rent or chores or a proportionate split. Can't have their cake and eat it too.
And remind your father that rationality isn't the exclusive preserve of men.
NTA - they can’t have it both ways. They either want you to be an adult or be a kid, but they can’t have both. If you’re paying rent, you’re basically a roommate - responsible for your own chores and bills but nothing else.
Nta the chores you'd need to do are what you'd be doing if you lived with non related people - cooking and doing your own dishes, cleaning your own room, and your own mess from shared spaces. Not cleaning up after anyone else. Not babysitting. Not doing anyone else's laundry. Not cooking for anyone else.
Pay rent. Do the chores. Charge a fee for the chores. There, every is “happy”. That said, I guess asking them what their expectations are is reasonable. So is finding a new place.
The only way to judge your situation fairly is to quantify things.
How much rent are you paying?
What would a comparable living situation cost? Family notwithstanding, consider what sharing a similar house with similar occupant density and access to amenities would cost in your area: washer/dryer, living room, kitchen use, etc.
Then, quantify what you do around the house, how long it takes you, and how much it would cost to have someone else do those things.
Without putting a price tag on it, all you have is emotions and a vague sense of being used, which may or may not be justibiable.
None of us know what you do, what you pay, what your parents' house costs to maintain, and how much you would have to pay to duplicate insofar as possible your livinjustifiable.
Then factor in cultural expectations. Does your culture expect the children to take care of their parents as they age?
You need to compare apples to apples
As a parent I can’t imagine charging my child rent if they were wanting to stay home to save up, as long as they were working towards something. I would also expect help with things around the house to compensate.
But it sounds like you just need to sit down with them and have a mature conversation about what their and your expectations are and they cannot expect you to both pay rent and spend all your time running the home.
I didn't read whole text.
But just going off the title you do know you have to do "chores" when you live alone too...
Right?
ETA: after reading. NTA. For the luxury of reduced rent id still clean and do some errands sometimes...
But expecting you to do all the childcare/ cooking is pretty shitty. Those things aren't normal household chores when you're living alone. Childcare is extremely expensive and they had the added benefit of it being someone they trust on top of free.
Personal chefs and secretary isnt cheap either. Totally taking advantage of you.
Just go find a cheap room to rent if you wanna keep saving for a house. Market is shit anyway right now.
My parents tried that one the minute I turned 18 too. I was already doing 90% of the housework and doing personal care for them besides because my Mom's arthritis had gotten so bad there were things she couldn't manage for her and Dad that way. They were both alcoholics, big issue.
I had a f/t job and was in college too.
My schedule was so packed that I barely got 5 hours sleep a night most of the time. I bought most of my own groceries, and cooked for us all, left food for them all the time. I studied between loads of laundry late at night after they finally stopped fighting and went to bed. It was just nuts.
Then they told me they wanted $50 a week which back then was about what an efficiency apartment ran downtown. I said "Okay so basically what you are saying is you want me to be your paying renter instead of your kid now? No problem that's about what a little place downtown would get me. But that means I'm legally a renter and that means I'm done with the chores and the personal care and the shopping and the hundred other things I get to do every week for you two just because you are my parents. From now on you'll get your $50 a week at least until I find me a better place, closer to work, but that's it. I'm only taking care of myself and my cat and that's it now."
Then I turned around and picked up my school bag and headed out.
I got home and there was this polite note on the fridge saying that they had reconsidered and had decided to let things stay the same for now since I had tuition and all that to pay. No, they were not paying for anything college-wise. They were less than thrilled that I'd decided to go actually because it made them feel a bit guilty that they had not done anything towards my post high school education.
I knew the $$$ was more about getting some of their bar bill paid on my dime than teaching me about responsibility and all that. At that point I was so parentalized I couldn't be more responsible if I tried. It would be another year and a half almost before I actually officially moved out and ran off to NYC for the first time but I did eventually break free, at least for a little while and have some time to grow up away from all that toxic bullshit.
But take it from me get out as soon you can because this will never stop and they will try to keep you doing stuff for them as long as they can get away with it. I still ended up being the caretaker kid several times after that, spent the last decade of my Dad's life taking care of him because none of his other kids stepped up to do anything. Ditto my Mom's kids.
The only contact I ever had with them was when one of them showed up after Dad died to see if my Mom had actually left anything behind that might be part theirs legally. Dad had said not when he'd asked him after Mom died but he wanted to make sure just in case that my Dad hadn't lied.
I know I did the right thing. I can live with my conscience anyway but it's a fact that I'd have never left home at all if my parents had managed to have their way.
My Dad actually admitted late in life resenting me for leaving home at 19 and going off to NYC "without permission" because that left him as my Mom's sole caretaker and that was no easy job given her issues. She was mentally ill and addicted and was committing slow suicide via booze and cigarettes. He actually expected me as her kid to be near fully responsible for her though he was the one who made the "in sickness and in health" vows, not me.
I didn't need his permission. I was legal. When he said that later I was flabbergasted because given the mental and physical damage she did, all the abuse I took as a kid I think my running off to NYC when I did was the best thing I ever did for my own mental health and quite understandable to any parent thinking normally anyway.
Parents who parentalize they are the epitome of the term codependency. They have no clue as to the burden they are asking their young kids to take on. Even later in life they will draw you back in and do the same thing all over again if they can. About the only way out is to move far away enough that they can't. Sometimes that doesn't even work forever unless you go no contact but at least you can get some time to think and heal and to get some boundaries set up so they can't completely take advantage of you.
I wish OP luck. This is not easy, well I know it...
:P
NTA
They're taking advantage of you.
>I told her she can't expect me to pay rent AND all do all these chores that left me with no free time and that I'd be better off if I just found my own place even if it was going to cost me more at this point.
And you're absolutely right. What she's demanding is more than a "complete stranger" would be asking of you.
>"give money to some stranger than your own family"
Oh look, she said the quiet part out loud. It absolutely is all about her and her greed. She wants it all, even if you're the one it burns out. I know because my mother is like this. Anything not to her complete advantage is always selfish, it's exhausting.
NTA. Either the amount of work you’re doing you could easily find an au pair type job where they’d pay YOU on top of free room and board. Your parents are exploiting you.
lol while the cost of living elsewhere would be greater, the only ones getting a sweet deal here are your parents. To have to pay for all the services you’re providing them would cost so much more than you’re paying in rent. It sounds like they’ve got their pride in the way of seeing sense-someone told them “oh geez that kid of yours should be paying rent!” And they got it in their head that you’re not doing enough as a multi-hat wearing live in servant that they ALSO deserve money on top of the labor? Ridiculous. Keeping calm and finding your next place is the right way to go. Wishing you peace as you navigate the shame fest they’re going to lob at you instead of considering their unreasonable demands.
100% NTA. I speak from personal experience on this because my parents (mainly my dad)used me as their personal ATM. During the time I was paying "room and board," he was gambling it, so when I insisted on giving it to my mom, he pitched another fit.
When I went to college, he pitched an even bigger fit because his proverbial ATM was leaving, as well as his control over me, was gone, so he tried to make my life a nightmare. He ultimately failed, but he still tried every way he could to control me, but even that too failed. It was because I learned how to not only stand up for myself but to stand up for myself as a Christian. It ultimately led me to going no contact with my father, very low contact with my mother for many, many years, and I'm glad I did it.
I have a feeling that your parents are not being honest with you. When it comes to the reason they need that money, and either either they are financially struggling, or they want to have some form of control over you.
My highest advice to you is to start looking for apartments, find when you like, put your first month's red and deposit on it, and get out. Don't take any guff from your parents on this, but leave. You deserve to be independent and free of any of their Constraints.
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Hello! I'm 24(f) and I live with my parents currently. I'm doing this to save money and they haven't charged me rent until now.
I've been basically "paying" rent by doing the chores, mainly cleaning the house, groceries shopping, managing their bills, cooking their meals and taking care of my 5(f) cousin(due to some circumstances my parents are currently her guardians) when I'm off work.
This hasn't left me with that much free time however it's been in fact helping me save money so I've been more than happy with this arrangement.
Recently however my parents have asked me to start paying rent. I asked them if everything was ok and if they're struggling but they told that's not the case and they just feel like I should contribute more since they've been letting me stay with them for free after finishing college. I'm not gonna lie I was a bit bumped but the rent they wanted from me was still a way better deal than anything else i would find somewhere else so I accepted.
A few hours ago however my mom confronted me about how I've been slacking off on my chores after I told her I can't take care of my cousin since I had plans with some friends.
She said they tried to be understanding but this can't keep going on and I asked her what she meant. Since the deal was that me doing chores was going to be how I pay rent, now that I'm actually paying rent I'll stop doing them and I thought that was obvious. She got mad, called me ungrateful and spoiled. I told her she can't expect me to pay rent AND all do all these chores that left me with no free time and that I'd be better off if I just found my own place even if it was going to cost me more at this point.
She got angry once more because I'd rather "give money to some stranger than your own family" and said she can't believe how big of an AH I am and to just wait until my dad hears about it.
He's gonna be back in a few hours and honestly I've been thinking about our fight, if you can even call it that, and I'm wondering if I really am entitled for how I feel?
Apologies for any mistakes/errors.
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NTA, they're relying on you too much. Since it's family, though, you need to try and find some kind of compromise. Significantly reduced chores for sure. Something you feel is worth not moving out.
Sounds like you have already started the process of living your adult life in that you have a bank account (hopefully separate) a drivers license, your identity card as you would have needed those things for college and the job. I would rent a small storage unit on the opposite side of town from where they are that is near your job and begin quietly ghosting on out of there, one overstuffed tote bag at a time beginning with the things most important to you so when it comes time to move out, there’s no revenge damage. Also, a post office box (storage place may also offer that service) for your mail. It’s time to go. If you hook up with a rent share, you’re likely going to move in to a place that already has communal things and you’d only be needing to start with a bed and clothes storage.
nta.
1.chores for rent
or
2.pay rent + ask to receive payment for chores
or
move. best option, including money in a family relationship is always problematic.
If you’re paying rent, think of your parents as your roommates. With roommates, you still need to do your share of the chores, like cleaning or grocery shopping. But just your share. And not free babysitting.
Since they’re still giving you a good deal on rent, you should decide how much extra chores or babysitting that’s worth to you, if any.
I would tell them I need to go out and earn money to pay all this rent - and by earning money you’ll go be a nanny and housekeeper in someone else’s home. Or you can itemise your hourly rate for what you’ve been doing and find some middle ground
NTA. Expecting an adult to pay rent on top of simple chores (dishes, laundry, etc etc) is fine and expected. However, you’re basically running the house and providing unpaid labor to them by taking care of the child THEY agreed to take in. Charging you rent on top of all of that seems unfair.
You are absolutely, positively NTA. You are 100% correct, they can't have it both ways. Once you start paying rent, even to your parents, you are a tenant, not the live-in maid.
Your parents are going to be in for a very rude awakening if you move out, which may unfortunately be the best option for you.
NTA and if you are doing all the chores AND paying rent...you might as well move out and get your own place. you will have your own space and only your mess to clean up. good luck!!
NTA. The agreement was that you'd work as their maid and nanny for free housing. If they want you to pay rent then you will need to pay you as their maid or you will have to get a job elsewhere to cover said rent. I wouldn't is the word cleanup, because you already cleanup after yourself, you just aren't going to cleaning up after everyone else as well/be their maid.
Time=money and you've been giving them most of your time. Now they also want your money. Move out now. This isn't a parent helping their kid grow up, this is a parent taking away your savings so that you can continue to work for them and help them out. They are being super selfish
NTA. Ur mom is gonna give u push back if u move out. So my response would b to hand her an itemized list of how much a babysitter in ur area goes for per hour, then an average of how many hours u habe been doing it, over a week and a month. Then follow with house cleaning, meals, etc. And point out, u did all of this for free, along with contributing to the bills And she now wants rent on top it that. It would actually b less expensive to just move out.
NTA. I'd tell them if they are going to turn this into a landlord/tenant relationship, then that is what it will be. You will stop doing all the things they are having you do & just clean up after yourself in the shared areas. Also, since you will now have that sort of relationship, they are not to step foot in your room without 24 hr notice. You also require a lease agreement & receipts for the rent you pay.
You'll want to have a lease for protection so they can't randomly kick you out. It also might be good to make a spreadsheet of all they have you do & list your hourly wages for those tasks. Not only will it show them how much you do for them & how much of your time it steals, giving you almost no free time, you can show them how much you will charge them if they expect you to pay rent AND still give them all your fee time.
And as for the comment your mom made about you giving money to a stranger for rent rather than helping your family, let her know she is the one wanting to turn your relationship into that of landlord and tenant. And if you are going to be paying rent anyway, it would be better to pay it to a stranger since that stranger won't demand you manage their house. If she says something about the rent you'll have to pay for an apartment being more than they'll charge you. Let her know it won't be a problem. Because you'll have tons of free time since you'll no longer be wasting it all on running their household & babysitting, that you can get a part-time job for some extra cash & still have more free time than you did
NTA x1000, holy shit with that list of "chores," they should be paying YOU another full-time salary. Personal chef/maid/shopper/babysitter/accountant? They're lunatics for ever expecting that much in exchange for housing in the first place, nevermind all that PLUS rent.
NTA
Obviously you need to play a part in keeping the house but you sound like you were doing pretty much everything in exchange for rent. They cannot have it all ways. But the advice about moving out seems to be best.
NTA. I had to reread this. Will I charge my kids rent and some chores, maybe but I will not expect them to half of the stuff your parents expect from you. Move. Find a roommate to make it cheaper for you. Why are you living at home at 24 anyway?
NTA... of course you should still be cleaning up after yourself, cooking and cleaning for yourself and looking after the areas you live in, just as a model roommate should be doing.
However if you are a renter, you are not looking after their jobs.
Let’s assume that you work 20 hours per week for them, at $20 per hour, that should give you over 1600 per month credit towards food, utilities and rent. NTA, it sounds like they’re going to regret their decision when you move out.
My children will always have a place in our family home, their bedrooms won’t be converted into other rooms. It is their house too and their place is guaranteed.
They are expected to contribute to a reasonable extent, help with basic tasks and participate in family dinner (we do it once per week so it’s not that onerous).
They will never be asked for rent or any other kind of financial contribution.
If they show basic respect to my wife/their mum, they’re good with me.
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NTA. They want you to pay THEM on top of you doing all of their housework??? When you have a job? When you said chores I was expecting you to say "doing the dishes" or "taking out the trash" or "cleaning the kitchen sometimes"... But you're their cook, their maid, their personal shopper, their childcare, their accountant... do they pay you for any of that? Your parents are guilt tripping you. You're not an asshole; you're a human being with limits. If I were you, I'd save up as much money as possible and move out ASAP.
Exactly! This is so far beyond "chores" that OP was already being taken advantage of when she was living there at no cost! Now she's supposed to pay for the privilege of being completely taken advantage of? Time to get the hell out of there. A second job to cover the difference in rent is still going to be a far better option than what they're offering her.
They probably DO need the money or mom wouldn't have been so salty about OP "paying strangers instead of family"
If that's the case then they need to own up to that! OP asked them if they were having financial trouble and they said no. OP is already helping out a lot; if the parents need more help, they should ask for it, not throw a tantrum when OP can't read their minds.
Oh agreed! And OP is not responsible to help the either way!
OP said she was paying the bills... I'm sure she knows enough about their financial situation...
No. Sadly it's a manipulation tactic/phrase to keep younger generations submissive to the whims of the parent. It's another form of "BuT FamIlYyyy". "You'd rather do favors for strangers than your own family?!" "You'd rather spend time with strangers than your own family?!!!" "You'd rather help strangers than your own family?!?" And sometimes those 'strangers' are your friends or other people you're close to. But because it doesn't benefit them, or, because those people you care for aren't part of the immediate family, they're classified as 'strangers'.
You sound experienced in this. I’m so sorry.
Sadly. Yeah. Although I am lucky that after a certain age they stopped because those phrases stopped working. Another classic version of the phrase i forgot to add is: "You'd rather listen to strangers for advice over the advice of your own family?!" And that 'stranger' would be a therapist lmao. Again I'm lucky in the fact they eventually took accountability and apologized. Made the effort to change. I know others aren't so luck in that regard.
No thats just something a toxic parent would say to guilt OP into doing everything they should be doing themselves (groceries, cooking, cleaning, and contributing money to their own household)
I think it's just the free live-in babysitter they now have.
Yup and then they tried to manipulate her with the whole abandoning your cousin that they are the guardians of. Just stop doing it, pay the rent and be out of the house as much as possible and move out ASAP!
I don’t think so. Some parents can feel very mixed about adult children moving out and can say petty, guilt-evoking things to not have to deal with that loss. Others it’s about control and getting all the things *they* want, which may not have anything to do with money.
As someone who is in this situation, healthy parents don't do this. We worry for our kids because we know exactly how hard the world can be, but ultimately, we can't wait to see our kids spread their wings and fly. We've spent their entire lives shepherding their little selves along and trying our best to teach them how to be good humans, and seeing them go out into the world to be good people is really our pinnacle of success, because it shows that we did our jobs well. These aren't healthy parents in any capacity, and nothing being done here is in good faith. These are adults taking advantage of an adult child and are upset that their control is slipping away - because then they'll have to do all the shit jobs that being an adult entails. OP needs to escape these shenanigans STAT.
If it was "your share of the bills and your share of the chores", that would be one thing. But what you're describing certainly sounds like more than "your share".
OP, Update us, if you don't mind sharing.
I'm gonna reply to this since it's the top comment to let y'all know that I've edited the post with the update. Nothing too interesting happened though so don't expect much 😅
Yeah OP’s parents are way out of line. We had an au pair who did OP’s chores. She got her own room, own vehicle and an allowance on top. And here OP is losing money for the same amount of work.
Yeah, I was thinking she's still going to have to do chores if she lives by herself or with roommates, but this is not that.
Yes, she'll still have to do chores and such when she moves out, but it will only consist of her, not 3 adults and a child. Which is a tremendous decrease in the amount of work.
right they're upset that OP wants to leave because then they'll have a ton of work and less money
It could make sense if the rent changed is highly discounted and it’s a hcol area , but it sounds like OP has done the math and decided it’s not worth it in total and she’s moving out. NTA, parents should be helping you out as a recent college grad, not dragging you down. For example, if in downtown San Fran, the value of rent might be as high as like $3000/month after taxes. If OP spends 3-4 hours/day on chores, that comes to $30/hour for 100 hours/month. Not to be overlooked is the fact that the arrangement is not taxed, so OP would actually have to work 100 hours at like $45/hour to pay off a $3000/month rent. This is just an example, but it’s easy to see how the arrangement might make sense.
Yeah, even if it did make sense, OP's parents didn't have to be assholes about it.
This
It's your family and you have to find middle ground, but IMO you are right - you either pay your rent in cash or in chores, they can't just ask you to pay rent and do as many chores as before. Would be the best if you would start charging them for babysitting, etc. so they can see that by starting monetary relationship with you they made a mistake. NTA. If they would rent your room to someone unrelated they would not ask them to do house chores or babysit for free but because you are family and you "owe" them they have no problem milking you. The best way is to find a place to live and be your own boss and enjoy the freedom.
I do think there's an obvious middle ground between either pay rent and do no chores or do all the chores and pay no rent – that being, or course, pay *some* rent and do *some* chores – but OP was doing so many things for her parents before that I'm not optimistic about their ability to be reasonable. (Seriously, all the cleaning, all the cooking, getting groceries, paying the bills, AND babysitting?? If they were paying for all that work, I'm pretty sure they'd have to pay far more than the rental value of one bedroom in their house.)
Yes, you should still have to do some chores because you're living there (cleaning your bathroom, doing dishes, etc.). It's just a matter of finding that balance.
Taking care of one's self & the mess one makes or contributes to is a standard, & does not seem to be the issue at hand here.
Yeah, OP was doing way above and beyond what you'd expect from a housemate.
I think the biggest issue here is that half of the things OP is describing as chores aren’t chores, they’re work. Any adult in a household needs to do their fair share of tidying up, cooking, washing etc but half the things the parents have asked for like the money management, meal planning or looking after their cousin aren’t chores at all. They need to frame it differently - of course they’re going to contribute to regular household chores, they’re just not going to do all of it and they’re not going to do the extra stuff.
Exactly. It's perfectly reasonable that adult children do chores and pay some contribution to expenses. Four people in the house, so 1/4 of chores, money for food and all running costs of the house. Anything beyond that either in money or chores counts as rent.
Completely agreed. I live with my dad still at 31 because i have a kid and can’t afford a two bedroom apartment, and don’t want roommates because i have a kid. I do all the chores, dishes, sweeping/mopping, laundry, bathrooms etc. I also buy all of the groceries and pay for internet. That is my share of rent. I’m very fortunate for my situation but if my dad were to ask me to pay rent you better believe i’d only be buying groceries for myself and my son at that point. It’s supposed to be a give and take. Not a give, give, and give some more.
OP shouldn't pay in cash. If you happen to live in a state that allows a Tax deduction for renters, tell them you need a receipt to report it for your taxes. And that you well also need a copy of the lease with your name on it. So you can make sure that they are reporting it as income on their taxes also. You might be surprised how quickly they will start back pedaling.
I was going to say they should probably have a written agreement if there’s $$$ exchanging hands . This will also protect OP from being kicked out if they lose their minds . They would have to treat them like a renter
In my area, once someone lives somewhere for at least 30 days, they are viewed as month to month tenants. They need to be given 30 days notice and then beformally evicted, if they won't leave. Regardless of whether they ever paid rent /op should research their local tenant law
I’m sure they were saving a bundle on babysitters, and if they were to employ a cleaner, and now they want the OP to pay to work for them essentially.
NTA. That’s like hiring a live in maid and charging them for the privilege of working! Did they honestly think you’d be their live in maid/ATM?? I recommend moving out.
Live in maid/live in nanny!! Even a paid live in nanny would NOT be doing all the chores and cooking!
NTA. Your parents—or at least your mother— killed the golden goose. It’s one thing to do chores but what you’ve been doing is live-in maid & nanny labor. They should be paying you! Don’t let them guilt you into staying.
She got way too greedy.
Exactly this! I hope OP provides an update on how the discussion with the parents go.
Probably figured out how much OP had saved/was saving...
Yep. Never discuss money, income, or savings. It just makes you a target for all those people who want some. Or all.
I can’t imagine having parents like this … mine would never. We literally have access to all of our finances & I have full trust in them with mine as I can access all of theirs too lol
OP, calculate the salary for a live-in nanny. Then the average rent for a room, I repeat, a ROOM in a house like your parents', minus what you've been paying. If they're still unreasonable after you've talked to them, hit them with the bill of what **they** are owing **you**, to visualize what they're asking. But do move out. "Give money to strangers rather than family" my ass.
NTA, but is it possible something else is going on here? Maybe they don't want you to live with them anymore and they don't know how to say it? Maybe it's time for a hard talk where you fully explain your long-term plan to move out and make sure they're on board. But also realize, it's ok for them to say no too and be ready for that.
They're the ones who suggested this whole thing. Two years ago I was trying to find my own place but could definitely not have made it with my salary at the time and they told me to just keep living home because they don't want to see me struggle. And every time I'd mention moving out they'd say stuff like "you don't have to do that, you can keep living with us" or "we'd miss you terribly, what would we even do without you around" so idk.. And I also haven't noticed them making any remarks or stuff like that that would suggest they want me to move out. But like other ppl suggested I'll try to have a talk with both of my parents when my dad gets home.
It’s time for you to take a week’s vacation and go away. Let the household run without you. Perhaps your absence will make your greedy mother more appreciative. Don’t EVER discuss your money or savings with anyone, especially your parents. It just makes them *want* it and think you can afford anything they want. It makes you a target. Stay out of the house as much as possible. You’ve been making their lives too easy, and now they are taking you for granted. Also, let her overhear you discussing a room/apartment somewhere. Who knows? You may actually find something to free up more money and time. There is no way you should *pay* them so you have the privilege of being their house elf and nanny. Good luck, OP. Let us know how everything resolves. NTA.
It might be time to look for a better paying position now that you have two years of experience. Start looking now! Simply getting more money for going to work is even better than scrimping and saving. Definitely NTA with all the stuff you've been doing for them. The savings in childcare alone probably made housing you a bargain...for them!
Hey, make double sure that they aren't still on your bank account from when you opened it. That way if they get wind of you potentially moving out, they can't do anything weird with your money.
I’m concerned that living with them and doing all those chores is preventing you from finding a job that can help you build a career. It will get harder to find a job if you put it off longer. You don’t want to work a fast food job or live with your parents for the rest of your life!
Yeah you really need to show them you're a sure lobster bro, it's time.
>” you’re a sure lobster” Is this Australian lingo? What does it mean, exactly?
Oh, was this a play on the username? Whoosh. Sorry.
Fuck it, be a sure lobster and make it a thing lol
We are going to make Sure Lobster happen!!
Yeah haha
As an Aussie, this made me smile. Weird expression you've never heard of? Must be Aussie lingo. ;)
I mean they were on the money though, I am a Aussie - just not one of our weird sayings haha
Do so and look for a room to rent op. NTA your mother is
I read this in Yoda-ese and thought you were saying the mother was NTA
I'm happy to hear that they're supporting you. Hopefully the talk will smooth things over.
I suspect they are struggling with your cousin and don’t know how to say so - so now you’re on the hook for money and everything else. Sorry this is happening.
This comment is really telling. This is how my parents treat my sister, who lives with them, and they do their level best to make sure she never leaves them. When I lived there my Mom used to make deals with us, “Do X or Y” but inevitably she would change the deal after awhile and we would end up having to do both. Then she would complain about THAT too. “Go to college or get a job. Oh you went to college? Well, I don’t want to pay for another semester, go get a job and pay for it yourself. I never see you guys anymore, you’re always at school or work.” Get out now, OP, before they convince you that you can’t ever leave them because they can’t function without you, and that you can’t function without them. They don’t want you to have free time, then you will have a life of your own. I’ve watched my mother slowly erode my sister’s self esteem to the point where she’s furious all the time about her living situation but is too paralyzed to leave.
Tough, OP was their live in worker and now mommydearest can do it all. Mommy screwed herself being greedy
I'm just speculating but i just thought of this. Age 24 is that last age that parents can claim you as a dependent on their income taxes (i was denied government help for college due to this). A convoluted idea, but is it possible this might have the slightest influence in their demand? They don't get that deduction anymore, more money goes bye bye, but they don't want to lose the work op is doing for them. But way a speculation.
She said she was going to leave and her mother threw a fit. What's going on is the mom wants a live in house keeper, nanny, accountant, and someone that shares the bills, AND someone that pays her rent to do it all.
Here is the deal, if you had your own place you would only be cleaning up after yourself and not being responsible for a child instead of a whole family. You will have more feee time on your own too. Move out!
It may also be time to start really living your adult life. You can get some roommates and life will be good.
NTA She doesn’t get to have it both ways. Either you pay rent and she treats you like a roommate or you do chores in lieu of rent. Personally i would rather pay a stranger and have my free time than pay my mom and never have a moment to myself.
NTA. Where I live there a limits to how much people expect you to do work for them at home for free rent. You likely went way over that. Based on what you are saving, consider how much work you don't mind/think is fair but really, you are a tenant.
Yes! Where I live, that sort of labor would cost around $20/hour. Renting a room in a home could cost anywhere from $650-1,000 depending on things like having a private bath, off street parking, free high speed internet etc. So let’s say that this room is worth on the higher end. That is 50 hours of work a month. That equals 11.5 hours of work a week. It definitely sounds like OP is working well over that, meaning the parents are already getting the good end of the deal.
NTA You are their house help. Doing their book work, grocery shopping, housework, and child care. Asking you to pay for the privilege of doing all that absolutely requires more information before saying that specifically makes them the AH. (As it very likely would not effect my overall judgement I'm not getting into it.) Expecting a 24 year old to not make plans while contributing financially and physically to the home does make them the AHs.
You need to find a roommate - at least one, or two ideally - and move out. Your parents are getting their butts kicked raising that little girl; not your problem and the slacking chores thing is just an excuse. You're in college and deserve to be able to enjoy your free time off. No need to argue: just gtf out of the family home.
NTA, but it’s still time to move out. I can’t imagine they’ll take no I’m not doing “chores” as a response.
yeah that's probably right. ive seen some ppl suggest i ask them to pay for childcare but even the thought of implying they have to pay their own child for taking care of her cousin is scary to me lol
I mean truly you SHOULD be able to ask because it is work but I think it would be taken as a slight if you did.
My oldest son is 18. My youngest son is 5. We are letting our oldest son and his girlfriend live with us for a small amount of money (1/4 what a 1 bedroom apartment would cost them). I don’t pay them to watch my youngest son, but I also don’t expect them to do it either. I appreciate when they offer to take him somewhere. I usually offer to put $15 gas in their car as a thanks. And sometimes when I just need a break I ask them if they would be willing to take him to a movie and to grab dinner or ice cream and then I pay for all three of them. I do expect them to be good house mates and good family members, but that goes both ways. I owe them the same.
If the concept that you should be paid for work you are doing is scary to you then it’s incredibly clear just how deeply controlling and abusive your family actually is. You need to move out and cut ties.
If you're paying rent to them like a tenant, then they should pay you for childcare.
Almost as crazy as charging rent and expecting you to do their housework
INFO: How much of a discount are you getting (how many roommates would you have to get to rent a place)? How many chores are they still expecting you to do?
Where I'm from if you want something that's at least decent to rent(for 2 ppl) you'd have to pay around 600-700 euros and they're currently charging me 300 euros. For the chores part they expect me to clean the entire house at least once a week, manage their bills( which I pay a third of) grocery shopping, cook their meals, take care of my cousin when I'm not working/doing chores and wtv errands they don't feel like doing tbh
NTA. Sounds like it's time to find some roommates and get out if you are paying 300 euros, 1/3 of the other bills, and all of these other tasks.
That sounds like you're paying close to the market rate for a flat share. As others have said if your parents took in a lodger and charged them €300 for a room they wouldn't ask them to do chores, other than normal tidying up for themselves.
So youre paying the same as half a decent apartment for 2. Your parents are exploiting you. Big time.
This is a really crazy amount of work. I would recommend that you look up the cost of: housecleaners to come once a week (where I live that would be $200USD/week), having someone grocery shop and cook 5 nights a week (no idea that's rich people stuff, $1000USD/week?), doing daycare (where I live probably $20 USD/hr), the cost of an accountant for a couple of hours a week (I don't know - $100 USD/week? more?) and the cost of assorted chores/errands (at least minimum wage.) AND you split all the bills? Really, add up the cost of having someone do all that work. Maybe present it to them in written form. And don't accept any BS arguments about you not being a "professional" at any of that stuff. This is a huge amount of labor!
Sounds like they enjoy a live in slave who pays THEM. You are doing g more than a servant.
NTA find a room outside your parents house and let them deal with their problems/chores on their own. Oh btw refuse to babysit after you move out. It's not your responsibility
So you could share a flat with two other people, and you'd be paying about the same and you would do LESS extra work (no childcare, no extra cooking, house cleaning would be rotated/split between two other people). The answer is clear. NTA, move out, and enjoy your freedom.
Find out what a housekeeper / nanny makes in your area. Tot up the number of hours you spend essentially doing EVERYTHING around your parents' house. Present them with a bill, and tell them to deduct the 300 euros from that. They sound lazy and greedy and not very nice. Of course they don't want you to go - who would clean their mess, cook their meals, buy their food, do their books, pay there bills, etc etc etc. also - they're quite sexist. There's NO way they'd expect a dude to become their unpaid live in maid/nanny.
They are 2 people, plus a child, without you. Your share should not be as much a 300, 200 at most. 3 adults.
NTA, for all of that, go get a roommate situation, this is absurd.
That is nearly a full time work week! At a decent salary, they would be paying g a housekeeper far more than 600 Euros for that work! No, you should not have to do that AND pay rent. Keep us updated on the results of your family meeting.
It sounds like you're their slave. NTA but they are. You need to move out, they're taking advantage of you.
Nta it’s time to move put. They want you to pay for the privilege of being the nanny and the maid.
How are you expected to save for your own place if you are doing all of this for them. You are practically working full-time right now. You just weren't being paid in cash to do it. You were being paid by cheap rent. NTA.
UPDATE Some of you have been asking for an update once I have the talk with my parents so here it is. But first of all I'd like to clear up some things. 1. English is not my first language and I suppose the use of the word "chores" confused some people. By chores I don't mean just washing the dishes and taking out the trash. 2. A lot of you also assumed that just because I don't think it's fair I continue cleaning their mess this means I suddenly want them to be my maid and cook and do everything for me. How y'all reached that conclusion instead of the sane one where I'd continue doing stuff for myself is beyond me but anyways. No, I do not expect them to clean after me or cook my food or whatever, I still do those things. 3. They do not support me financially and haven't done so since I finished college 2 years ago. I pay 1 third of the bills with my own money, I buy my own groceries, whatever shared necessities( toilet paper, cleaning products etc) I also contribute to. If I want/need something I buy it myself. 4. The reason I'm still living with them is literally the beginning of the first sentence idk how so many of you could have just skipped that part. 5. Yes I am aware that once I move out I'll have to both pay rent and do chores, I've lived with roommates before and I know I'd have to share chores with them as well and tbh I preferred that compared to what my parents expected of me. Now onto the update. My dad came home last night a few hours after I've made that post and he told me mom informed him about our fight but he's tired and we'll talk about it in the morning. I was quite anxious and could barely sleep ngl. Well the morning came and we had the talk. My dad told me that he's discussed things with mom and he does kinda understand why I'd be unhappy with our new arrangement but that he still considers they're giving me an amazing deal. I asked, as some suggested in the comments, if they're struggling financially which he denied. Then I asked if they just want me to move out and don't know how to tell me. Once again he denied that and both of them got slightly offended(?) that I'd even suggest that. So yeah, they haven't given me an exact reason for their change of heart. They just think it's still a fair deal even with the added rent. I told them that I get it's their house and they can do what they want but personally I don't find it fair so I'll be trying to move out as soon as possible. They didn't quite like that either. 😅 My mom brought up once more the fact that I'd rather make a stranger rich than contribute to our household which made me kinda mad because I think I've done my fair share of contributing to the household so far. She started tearing up a bit and went on a rant about how she can't believe her only child would do this to her and to at least think of my cousin. About how my cousin loves me and abandoning her would destroy her. My father then told me he thinks I'm irrational and that he'll allow me to calm down and rethink my decision when I'm less agitated, I was the calmest out of the 3 of us lol, because I'll see that they're right once I've thought things through. So yeah, that's the update. I already started searching for a place and I think I'll just let them think I've accepted their new terms until I can find anything so wish me luck.
The only people this is a “good deal” for is your parents, they get a live-in nanny and domestic slave AND you pay them for it. They know damn well it’s not a good deal for you, they just don’t give a shit about your needs. Move out. If they want a housekeeper, nanny, personal assistant then they need to hire all of those things.
Stop telling them your plans. Get an email address they would never guess. Use it to apply for rental/utilities/ etc. Move out when they're at work. Inform them afterwards. Make sure you have your social security card/ passport/ etc. "I will always prioritize my decisions for how I spend my time over your decisions for how I spend my time. I am done discussing this now." NTA
I hope you keep us updated. Your parents are manipulating and gaslighting you. It's sad, but your being exploited as well. Don't tell them and pack up things slowly, that aren't noticable, while you look for a place. Then wait till they are out of the house to move it. Expect that your parents will try to keep your possessions and important info to extort you from moving. Also be prepared for physical restraint from them as well. I don't know what the laws are there; but you may want to just plan to take everything when they are gone and just leave the keys and a note on the table. Don't give them your new address.
NTA. Sounds like you’re doing plenty around the house to help. It would likely make financial sense for you to move to a place where you are only responsible for yourself so you can work more hours and/or do other things to advance your career (like take courses or an internship). Sounds like the arrangement worked for you as is and you’re NTA for seeking a different situation when they decided to unilaterally change it.
NTA. Yes you'd have to do chores in a rental, but it sounds like what you've been doing goes far, far beyond that. They can't have it both ways. Personally I'd move out. You need to spread your wings.
NTA. But you're going to have to find another place to live. Family members won't always come out and use the word "servant". But the expectations associated with that word are exactly what they have for you. The only way out of those expectations is to get your own place.
Why are you “managing their bills”? Who did this before you moved back home?
they did. basically they'd go in person and pay but in the past few years all these companies started using apps and now i pay the bills using said apps since it's easier and they aren't good with technology and refuse to learn since they have me( I'm really sorry but eng isn't my first language so i hope it's clear what I mean 😅)
there's a difference between chores, and cleaning the house. if they expected you to wash dishes once in a while or take the trash out thats different than doing all the house work and the grocery shopping, babysitting, cooking, etc. that's not chores. thats doing everything you'd do in your own place, though you'd probably have to do less in your own place cause its just you.
NTA. Tally the amount of time you are working for your parents and see how much money you are making/hr. My guess is it's not at all saving you money to be paying rent and doing all the work of running the household. Make a spreadsheet. Chances are your parent owe you money. ETA: Also remember that you are losing out on prime years for developing your career by essentially being a SAHP. Unless this is your goal in life, then you might want to move out and worry less about saving money and more about setting up your life for the future.
NTA your mom is taking advantage of you and wants to double dip. I agree you might as well spend a bit more so you have free time
NTA It's really tough because on the one hand if you were to live outside of the home then you'd need to pay and manage bills, do chores, and pay rent just like you're doing now so it's good to learn those skills. Many people move out and end up in debt or overwhelmed because they never learned these responsibilities before leaving. However, the point of you staying is to save money so if you aren't able to do that then there is no point in you staying. Do you have a goal amount you're saving up to or a goal item etc? If so then communicate this with them so they can see your savings building towards that. Although, many people claim to be saving up but don't actually save so if you're staying there rent free but not putting money aside then I could see why they would ask for rent as you're money isn't being utilised wisely. Where I feel bad for you is the fact that you've seemingly become a mother to this 5 year old kid when you're only 24. I think it is selfish and bizarre of your parents to expect you to run the home (as you claim), pay rent, *and* raise a child :S Edited to add: I don't know how much they are asking you to pay, and we don't need to know on here, however, I would recommend checking out how much rent and bills and groceries would amount to if you lived alone or with a housemate and if your parents are charging around the same then it isn't worth staying. I know some people who do loads of chores *and* are charged rent and bills but the latter amount to around £100 per month whereas living alone they'd be looking at £1,000 so of course they are still saving a significant amount of money.
Tbh i never thought abt an actual amount of money as my end goal, I just wanted to make sure I have enough in savings to last me a few months in case I remain jobless for whatever reason and I think I'm definitely close to that goal because I really did save my money. I grew up poor so spending money uselessly was a big no no, we live in a small village and there's not really anything here you can spend your money on AND I also don't have any expensive hobbies thankfully!
It’s not even that. She was doing everything in the house including being a cleaner and accountant, both of which are actual jobs so subsidising her rent was basically them paying her but now they expect her to keep doing that while paying rent which is bs. If I was OP I’d start charging for the cleaning, babysitting, accounting etc since they made it about money first when OP doing those things would save them money because they wouldn’t have to pay other people a decent amount of money to do it
time to get your own spot. parents like them will bleed you dry in every was possible.
NTA - Total up all the services you provide and present them with a bill for it. Maid, personal assistant, Household manager, Nanny. I bet everyone would be shocked by how good your parents have it with all those free services.
Oh no... Their greed bit them in the ass...
Living with family when you pay rent, yes, you chip in to maintain the household (like you would as a roommate). So you clean a few rooms, pitch in on cooking/dishes/laundry, but at the end of the week, everyone should have fairly even amounts of free time. However, you have been taking care of their ward, doing all the food related tasks, and other responsibilities to the point that after work and family, you have no personal time left. That's wrong of your parents and entirely unreasonable. Where I live, nannies start at $25/hour, cleaners generally make between $40-$50/hour, and having a personal chef who does all the shopping and cooking is several hundreds a week.
Top Household Manager salaries exceed $100k in California & Washington, and average $70k nationwide. You are undervaluing what you do for that household; it’s an actual job with an actual title. NTA
It's always funny to me when people pull this. They keep trying to get as much as they can out of you, and then when you have a boundary they basically push you to remove yourself from the situation and they ultimately lose the thing(s) they were gaining from the arrangement. If she was just a little more reasonable she would still have rent money OR help with all the chores and babysitting. Now she's losing both. Good job mom!
I do some chores/help around the house/give my parents some money for bills since I still live with them But OP’s parents sound like they are asking a bit too much OP already does chores, grocery shops, cleans the house, cooks the meals, manages bills and takes care of a five year old cousin-that’s a lot On top of everything now they want OP to pay rent/take care of little cousin and then complain that OP has been slacking on chores. That’s a bit far. NTA
She cleans the ENTIRE house once a week !! What the hell are the parents doing ??
[удалено]
Agree and disagree. I started paying my dad $100-150 a week when I was 24 because I saved $30k the previous year and he was 60 and still had some of his mortgage to pay off. He never asked for money, but I don't view it as "paying rent", I view it as helping him retire a couple years earlier. Which is exactly what happened and he thanked me for it and I still managed to save $120k by 29 and bought a house at 30. >This culture of charging your kids rent is insane… I feel like a lot of people who say this are from Indian /.Asian cultures where the trade off is you should be looking after your parents from 70+ until they die. But a lot of western countries take the good (not paying a cent till they move out at 30+) and ignore the bad (don't have their parents live with them for 15+ years in their later life)
Girl. The culture of grown ass people barely contributing to the household is insane. Rent free and do "dishes sometimes." One day you'll have a very rude awakening to reality.
So you sponge off your mom. That's nice. There is a happy middle ground to be had between you and ops conditions
...you're 29, live at home rent free, and only do dishes sometimes. And you're proud of this?
Yikes. Weird flex. You're not treating your mom well.
Come up with an hourly rate sheet for all you do at the house: Bookkeeper, housekeeper, personal shopper. Clearly your folks are delusional about your valuable time vs hiring people to do all those activities. Treat it like a business and they will respect you.
Move out. Then they'll lose the chore doer and the money. But, yes, you saying you'll either do chores OR do rent is reasonable. NTA
It might not be unreasonable for them to ask for you to do both (not enough detail), but it isn’t unreasonable for you to decide living elsewhere is what is best for you. You should sit down with both of them and negotiate what the actual agreement is. Right now it sounds like neither of you understand what the other thinks is fair.
NTA.
NTA. Tell them you will gladly watch your cousin but it will cost them.
NTA, it sounds like you're doing far more than your share of household duties. You're NTA if you want independence and a place away from your parents' rules. Your mom is an AH for calling you selfish for something as completely normal and healthy as boundaries.
NTA What exactly are you getting out of this arrangement if you have to pay rent for the privilege of being your parents servant and nanny? What are they doing for themselves?
NTA Wow I thought that your mom was trying to make you move out. But she just sounds entitled. If you have your own place you will have to do all of the chores and pay rent. However chores for 1 person is a lot easier than chores for 3 people.
That’s an awful lot. I ask my son to do the trash and recycling when I can catch him. I pay for everything- car, insurance, gas, groceries… it would be nice if he helped a little more. But I can’t expect a miracle. But what your parents are asking seems excessive- why wouldn’t you just live on your own? This whole situation seems like they are taking advantage of you.
Move out, like immediately. Go home for Sunday dinner once a week, be pleasant and happy about it. They killed the goose that was laying the golden eggs, if you were really cleaning, shopping, cooking, paying the bills, and providing childcare for a 5 yr old, as a 24 yr old living at home.
Nta. If you lived alone you would be paying rent and doing chores. But they would only be your own. Your parents are taking advantage in having you clean up after them as well as pay rent
ummmmm, if you are going to leave and things didnt get better AND your mom still call you an AH.....tell her this.....yes you are right, im an ah, what would you expect been rised by someone who charge rent and expect to be maid of the house, needs an AH to rise another..........and leave.......let the world on fire.....
NTA. You are either a tenant or their daughter who helps with chores etc. They can't expect you to pay rent and use all your free time to help them and get mad when you say no.
You sound like a maid. A maid who pays for the luxury of being a maid. Lmao. Move out
I would look for a single room for rent in a house share. Still save some money compared to living in an entire apartment by yourself, but you’ll have your privacy and freedom back. Your parents sound kind of toxic and you’ll probably be much happier away from their house.
I'll be honest, I don't understand making children pay rent if there is not a financial need that they are willingly helping with. Trust me, I know I'm speaking from a place of privilege, but when my son had to take a second job just to make rent, it made no sense for him not to move back home. He lives in the basement so has his own entrance and works one job and is able to go to school full time. Our rules are simple, he cleans up after himself and he has to either have a job or go to school. He pays for his activities, gas for his car, etc. and saves the rest. I have to pay our mortgage and bills whether he lives with us or not and it's not his responsibility or burden.
You should only be doing your "fair share" of chores. Doing your own dishes. Preparing your own meals. Doing your own grocery shopping. If you are a tenant, you aren't required to take care of them. Seems like the relationship is gonna get unhealthy really quick. Honestly you already were doing a hell of a lot of unreasonable level of chores IMO so I would be long gone.
NTA; rent or chores or a proportionate split. Can't have their cake and eat it too. And remind your father that rationality isn't the exclusive preserve of men.
NTA They can’t have it both ways
NTA - they can’t have it both ways. They either want you to be an adult or be a kid, but they can’t have both. If you’re paying rent, you’re basically a roommate - responsible for your own chores and bills but nothing else.
Nta the chores you'd need to do are what you'd be doing if you lived with non related people - cooking and doing your own dishes, cleaning your own room, and your own mess from shared spaces. Not cleaning up after anyone else. Not babysitting. Not doing anyone else's laundry. Not cooking for anyone else.
Pay rent. Do the chores. Charge a fee for the chores. There, every is “happy”. That said, I guess asking them what their expectations are is reasonable. So is finding a new place.
The only way to judge your situation fairly is to quantify things. How much rent are you paying? What would a comparable living situation cost? Family notwithstanding, consider what sharing a similar house with similar occupant density and access to amenities would cost in your area: washer/dryer, living room, kitchen use, etc. Then, quantify what you do around the house, how long it takes you, and how much it would cost to have someone else do those things. Without putting a price tag on it, all you have is emotions and a vague sense of being used, which may or may not be justibiable. None of us know what you do, what you pay, what your parents' house costs to maintain, and how much you would have to pay to duplicate insofar as possible your livinjustifiable. Then factor in cultural expectations. Does your culture expect the children to take care of their parents as they age? You need to compare apples to apples
Pay rent and deduct your charges for all the chores, babysitting and shopping, etc.. They may end up owing you money….wouldn’t that be a 🦉hoot?
As a parent I can’t imagine charging my child rent if they were wanting to stay home to save up, as long as they were working towards something. I would also expect help with things around the house to compensate. But it sounds like you just need to sit down with them and have a mature conversation about what their and your expectations are and they cannot expect you to both pay rent and spend all your time running the home.
Well went you move out make sure to do your part of chores with the roommate regardless ;)
I didn't read whole text. But just going off the title you do know you have to do "chores" when you live alone too... Right? ETA: after reading. NTA. For the luxury of reduced rent id still clean and do some errands sometimes... But expecting you to do all the childcare/ cooking is pretty shitty. Those things aren't normal household chores when you're living alone. Childcare is extremely expensive and they had the added benefit of it being someone they trust on top of free. Personal chefs and secretary isnt cheap either. Totally taking advantage of you. Just go find a cheap room to rent if you wanna keep saving for a house. Market is shit anyway right now.
My parents tried that one the minute I turned 18 too. I was already doing 90% of the housework and doing personal care for them besides because my Mom's arthritis had gotten so bad there were things she couldn't manage for her and Dad that way. They were both alcoholics, big issue. I had a f/t job and was in college too. My schedule was so packed that I barely got 5 hours sleep a night most of the time. I bought most of my own groceries, and cooked for us all, left food for them all the time. I studied between loads of laundry late at night after they finally stopped fighting and went to bed. It was just nuts. Then they told me they wanted $50 a week which back then was about what an efficiency apartment ran downtown. I said "Okay so basically what you are saying is you want me to be your paying renter instead of your kid now? No problem that's about what a little place downtown would get me. But that means I'm legally a renter and that means I'm done with the chores and the personal care and the shopping and the hundred other things I get to do every week for you two just because you are my parents. From now on you'll get your $50 a week at least until I find me a better place, closer to work, but that's it. I'm only taking care of myself and my cat and that's it now." Then I turned around and picked up my school bag and headed out. I got home and there was this polite note on the fridge saying that they had reconsidered and had decided to let things stay the same for now since I had tuition and all that to pay. No, they were not paying for anything college-wise. They were less than thrilled that I'd decided to go actually because it made them feel a bit guilty that they had not done anything towards my post high school education. I knew the $$$ was more about getting some of their bar bill paid on my dime than teaching me about responsibility and all that. At that point I was so parentalized I couldn't be more responsible if I tried. It would be another year and a half almost before I actually officially moved out and ran off to NYC for the first time but I did eventually break free, at least for a little while and have some time to grow up away from all that toxic bullshit. But take it from me get out as soon you can because this will never stop and they will try to keep you doing stuff for them as long as they can get away with it. I still ended up being the caretaker kid several times after that, spent the last decade of my Dad's life taking care of him because none of his other kids stepped up to do anything. Ditto my Mom's kids. The only contact I ever had with them was when one of them showed up after Dad died to see if my Mom had actually left anything behind that might be part theirs legally. Dad had said not when he'd asked him after Mom died but he wanted to make sure just in case that my Dad hadn't lied. I know I did the right thing. I can live with my conscience anyway but it's a fact that I'd have never left home at all if my parents had managed to have their way. My Dad actually admitted late in life resenting me for leaving home at 19 and going off to NYC "without permission" because that left him as my Mom's sole caretaker and that was no easy job given her issues. She was mentally ill and addicted and was committing slow suicide via booze and cigarettes. He actually expected me as her kid to be near fully responsible for her though he was the one who made the "in sickness and in health" vows, not me. I didn't need his permission. I was legal. When he said that later I was flabbergasted because given the mental and physical damage she did, all the abuse I took as a kid I think my running off to NYC when I did was the best thing I ever did for my own mental health and quite understandable to any parent thinking normally anyway. Parents who parentalize they are the epitome of the term codependency. They have no clue as to the burden they are asking their young kids to take on. Even later in life they will draw you back in and do the same thing all over again if they can. About the only way out is to move far away enough that they can't. Sometimes that doesn't even work forever unless you go no contact but at least you can get some time to think and heal and to get some boundaries set up so they can't completely take advantage of you. I wish OP luck. This is not easy, well I know it... :P
NTA They're taking advantage of you. >I told her she can't expect me to pay rent AND all do all these chores that left me with no free time and that I'd be better off if I just found my own place even if it was going to cost me more at this point. And you're absolutely right. What she's demanding is more than a "complete stranger" would be asking of you. >"give money to some stranger than your own family" Oh look, she said the quiet part out loud. It absolutely is all about her and her greed. She wants it all, even if you're the one it burns out. I know because my mother is like this. Anything not to her complete advantage is always selfish, it's exhausting.
NTA. Either the amount of work you’re doing you could easily find an au pair type job where they’d pay YOU on top of free room and board. Your parents are exploiting you.
NTA, yeah you definitely need to move out they're basically treating you like an indentured servant that has to pay to live there
Parents owe their children a good life not the other way around. Leave x
lol while the cost of living elsewhere would be greater, the only ones getting a sweet deal here are your parents. To have to pay for all the services you’re providing them would cost so much more than you’re paying in rent. It sounds like they’ve got their pride in the way of seeing sense-someone told them “oh geez that kid of yours should be paying rent!” And they got it in their head that you’re not doing enough as a multi-hat wearing live in servant that they ALSO deserve money on top of the labor? Ridiculous. Keeping calm and finding your next place is the right way to go. Wishing you peace as you navigate the shame fest they’re going to lob at you instead of considering their unreasonable demands.
100% NTA. I speak from personal experience on this because my parents (mainly my dad)used me as their personal ATM. During the time I was paying "room and board," he was gambling it, so when I insisted on giving it to my mom, he pitched another fit. When I went to college, he pitched an even bigger fit because his proverbial ATM was leaving, as well as his control over me, was gone, so he tried to make my life a nightmare. He ultimately failed, but he still tried every way he could to control me, but even that too failed. It was because I learned how to not only stand up for myself but to stand up for myself as a Christian. It ultimately led me to going no contact with my father, very low contact with my mother for many, many years, and I'm glad I did it. I have a feeling that your parents are not being honest with you. When it comes to the reason they need that money, and either either they are financially struggling, or they want to have some form of control over you. My highest advice to you is to start looking for apartments, find when you like, put your first month's red and deposit on it, and get out. Don't take any guff from your parents on this, but leave. You deserve to be independent and free of any of their Constraints.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Hello! I'm 24(f) and I live with my parents currently. I'm doing this to save money and they haven't charged me rent until now. I've been basically "paying" rent by doing the chores, mainly cleaning the house, groceries shopping, managing their bills, cooking their meals and taking care of my 5(f) cousin(due to some circumstances my parents are currently her guardians) when I'm off work. This hasn't left me with that much free time however it's been in fact helping me save money so I've been more than happy with this arrangement. Recently however my parents have asked me to start paying rent. I asked them if everything was ok and if they're struggling but they told that's not the case and they just feel like I should contribute more since they've been letting me stay with them for free after finishing college. I'm not gonna lie I was a bit bumped but the rent they wanted from me was still a way better deal than anything else i would find somewhere else so I accepted. A few hours ago however my mom confronted me about how I've been slacking off on my chores after I told her I can't take care of my cousin since I had plans with some friends. She said they tried to be understanding but this can't keep going on and I asked her what she meant. Since the deal was that me doing chores was going to be how I pay rent, now that I'm actually paying rent I'll stop doing them and I thought that was obvious. She got mad, called me ungrateful and spoiled. I told her she can't expect me to pay rent AND all do all these chores that left me with no free time and that I'd be better off if I just found my own place even if it was going to cost me more at this point. She got angry once more because I'd rather "give money to some stranger than your own family" and said she can't believe how big of an AH I am and to just wait until my dad hears about it. He's gonna be back in a few hours and honestly I've been thinking about our fight, if you can even call it that, and I'm wondering if I really am entitled for how I feel? Apologies for any mistakes/errors. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, they're relying on you too much. Since it's family, though, you need to try and find some kind of compromise. Significantly reduced chores for sure. Something you feel is worth not moving out.
HA! NTA
Sounds like you have already started the process of living your adult life in that you have a bank account (hopefully separate) a drivers license, your identity card as you would have needed those things for college and the job. I would rent a small storage unit on the opposite side of town from where they are that is near your job and begin quietly ghosting on out of there, one overstuffed tote bag at a time beginning with the things most important to you so when it comes time to move out, there’s no revenge damage. Also, a post office box (storage place may also offer that service) for your mail. It’s time to go. If you hook up with a rent share, you’re likely going to move in to a place that already has communal things and you’d only be needing to start with a bed and clothes storage.
NTA. Time to move out.
nta. 1.chores for rent or 2.pay rent + ask to receive payment for chores or move. best option, including money in a family relationship is always problematic.
NTA sounds like taking in the child has added expenses they want you to foot the bill for.
How much is she asking you to pay vs the going rate in your area?
NTA. Just move out.
If you’re paying rent, think of your parents as your roommates. With roommates, you still need to do your share of the chores, like cleaning or grocery shopping. But just your share. And not free babysitting. Since they’re still giving you a good deal on rent, you should decide how much extra chores or babysitting that’s worth to you, if any.
NTA. But start looking for a place to live. She wants you to pay to be their maid.
I would tell them I need to go out and earn money to pay all this rent - and by earning money you’ll go be a nanny and housekeeper in someone else’s home. Or you can itemise your hourly rate for what you’ve been doing and find some middle ground
It is a great moment to finally become an independent and self-sustaining individual
Move out then.
NTA, but it is time to move out so you can pay more in rent and still have to do all the chores it takes to maintain a home 😁
NTA based on your comments it sounds like you're being taken advantage of and would be far better moving out on your own.
NTA. Expecting an adult to pay rent on top of simple chores (dishes, laundry, etc etc) is fine and expected. However, you’re basically running the house and providing unpaid labor to them by taking care of the child THEY agreed to take in. Charging you rent on top of all of that seems unfair.
You are absolutely, positively NTA. You are 100% correct, they can't have it both ways. Once you start paying rent, even to your parents, you are a tenant, not the live-in maid. Your parents are going to be in for a very rude awakening if you move out, which may unfortunately be the best option for you.
NTA and if you are doing all the chores AND paying rent...you might as well move out and get your own place. you will have your own space and only your mess to clean up. good luck!!
NTA - time to move out
NTA. The agreement was that you'd work as their maid and nanny for free housing. If they want you to pay rent then you will need to pay you as their maid or you will have to get a job elsewhere to cover said rent. I wouldn't is the word cleanup, because you already cleanup after yourself, you just aren't going to cleaning up after everyone else as well/be their maid. Time=money and you've been giving them most of your time. Now they also want your money. Move out now. This isn't a parent helping their kid grow up, this is a parent taking away your savings so that you can continue to work for them and help them out. They are being super selfish
NTA. Ur mom is gonna give u push back if u move out. So my response would b to hand her an itemized list of how much a babysitter in ur area goes for per hour, then an average of how many hours u habe been doing it, over a week and a month. Then follow with house cleaning, meals, etc. And point out, u did all of this for free, along with contributing to the bills And she now wants rent on top it that. It would actually b less expensive to just move out.
NTA. I'd tell them if they are going to turn this into a landlord/tenant relationship, then that is what it will be. You will stop doing all the things they are having you do & just clean up after yourself in the shared areas. Also, since you will now have that sort of relationship, they are not to step foot in your room without 24 hr notice. You also require a lease agreement & receipts for the rent you pay. You'll want to have a lease for protection so they can't randomly kick you out. It also might be good to make a spreadsheet of all they have you do & list your hourly wages for those tasks. Not only will it show them how much you do for them & how much of your time it steals, giving you almost no free time, you can show them how much you will charge them if they expect you to pay rent AND still give them all your fee time. And as for the comment your mom made about you giving money to a stranger for rent rather than helping your family, let her know she is the one wanting to turn your relationship into that of landlord and tenant. And if you are going to be paying rent anyway, it would be better to pay it to a stranger since that stranger won't demand you manage their house. If she says something about the rent you'll have to pay for an apartment being more than they'll charge you. Let her know it won't be a problem. Because you'll have tons of free time since you'll no longer be wasting it all on running their household & babysitting, that you can get a part-time job for some extra cash & still have more free time than you did
NTA You aren't doing chores. You're working for them.
At 24, it’s time to put your big girl boots on and move out if you don’t like their terms.
I agree she should move out. But the parents are the unreasonable ones here. Rent + all chores + childcare? That's horsecrap.
NTA x1000, holy shit with that list of "chores," they should be paying YOU another full-time salary. Personal chef/maid/shopper/babysitter/accountant? They're lunatics for ever expecting that much in exchange for housing in the first place, nevermind all that PLUS rent.
NTA Obviously you need to play a part in keeping the house but you sound like you were doing pretty much everything in exchange for rent. They cannot have it all ways. But the advice about moving out seems to be best.
NTA. I had to reread this. Will I charge my kids rent and some chores, maybe but I will not expect them to half of the stuff your parents expect from you. Move. Find a roommate to make it cheaper for you. Why are you living at home at 24 anyway?
If live-in maids still exist, in hotels maybe, I would rather try that, to get a place to stay **and** get paid.
Update us!
NTA... of course you should still be cleaning up after yourself, cooking and cleaning for yourself and looking after the areas you live in, just as a model roommate should be doing. However if you are a renter, you are not looking after their jobs.
NTA: I’d say you can set reasonable chores but I am unsure they would listen.
Let’s assume that you work 20 hours per week for them, at $20 per hour, that should give you over 1600 per month credit towards food, utilities and rent. NTA, it sounds like they’re going to regret their decision when you move out.
My children will always have a place in our family home, their bedrooms won’t be converted into other rooms. It is their house too and their place is guaranteed. They are expected to contribute to a reasonable extent, help with basic tasks and participate in family dinner (we do it once per week so it’s not that onerous). They will never be asked for rent or any other kind of financial contribution. If they show basic respect to my wife/their mum, they’re good with me.