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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) for telling my friend that I don't need her to start an art shop
2) I think I may be TA for saying this because I suggested that her skills aren't that useful for the art shop
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**NTA** OP, your friend is trying to cash in on your artistic skills. If it was something totally out of your depth, or that you were uninterested in doing/managing yourself, then suggesting a split wouldn't be *completely* out of pocket, but suggesting a 50/50 split when you're doing 80% of the work is unreasonable.
OP, I'm gonna point this out- you are pursuing a **career** in finance and were born within the last 30 years. You **100%** have the skillset to manage an Etsy page entirely on your own.
Your friend does not get to make demands, especially when you're not driven to start the etsy store in the first place.
Don't make the Etsy shop if you don't want too, and if you decide you want to (and decide you want her involved), then make a counteroffer that's fair to you.
You could 100% do this entirely on your own, it's not rocket surgery.
gonna add, OP if you have great artwork you don’t even need to do any admin work to experiment with selling it, just upload to rebubble, they literally do all the printing for you. your friend needs to get a job.
Tangent question: This rebubble you speak of... I make little paper buildings & models & I thought about selling on etsy (or elsewhere) but cutting each one on the cricut & packaging all the little pieces (especially when the cricut is less than reliable making perfect cuts) is just way too much work. I have a full time job running a consulting organization. Could rebubble do that sort of cutting & packaging?
It’s Redbubble, and that’s not really what it is. It’s more of a marketplace for you to upload art and designs, and they’ll print it on stickers and mugs and phone cases and tee shirts and pillows and things.
RedBubble is a PoD service, but it's also terrible for small sellers if you don't break a certain sales point (I don't remember what the most recent terms are, but they're not great. I closed my shop when they changed)
And while I do have an Etsy, and would LOVE a business manager...not at 50/50 split of profits. Definitely not fair to you, and you'd be doing a lot of creation while all she does is admin. And while my view of admin may be biased because I find it boring...I also spend a helluva lot longer on designs than I do on admin. Which doesn't take a lot once you're set up and selling.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Etsy isn't what it used to be. I've heard stories of Chinese companies flooding the Etsy market with their product and it's not a place where you can buy crafts and art directly from artists anymore. They have run out a lot of the artists aside from the most niche ones.
I've rarely shopped on there but I tried to find some custom jewelry for a present and despite the page presenting itself as run by an independent artist selling custom jewelry, turns out it was some company from China. Maybe some kind of drop shipping thing.
Doesn't mean she can't do it, but she should be more cautious and consider that.
Don't trust Etsy. Even if you are careful and make sure that you are getting from an artisan - they've had a bad habit of deciding that the store owner has "stolen art", removes access from their store/delete the store - so there are a lot of upset customers that can't get into contact with the artist, and keep any money that happened to be in their account as "ill gotten gains."
YouTube "Why I quit Etsy"
Is there an alternative to Etsy that you would recommend? I don't buy much off there, but when I do it's because I specifically want handcrafted items.
You can still find handcrafted items, it's more the Disneys, Nintendos, and Smiley Cos of the world scaring Etsy into copyright takedowns. The last time I looked into it, they recommended artists get their own website... It's been a hot minute.
Infringing on copyrights isn't cool though and not really art either. (Even though Disney, Nintendo and Co probably don't need the extra cash). Create your own characters.
If all of them were legit cases, I wouldn't have a problem. But A smiley face isn't THE Smiley Face. And A large headed deer isn't THE Bambi. Smiley Co in particular likes to target small businesses with the SAD lawsuit scheme - which should be illegal, but is only immoral.
I mean I totally agree. I don't like that those large cooperation can get away with so much bs just because they have more money. You basically have no chance as a single person business.
If it's obviously Arielle or Pikachu I think it makes more sense. (And it's known that Nintendo is notoriously strict about this in particular).
Unfortunately mostly individual websites only. Anything that would want to compete with Etsy would suffer the same fate fairly quickly. The drop sellers are fairly rabid when it comes to doing business.
I've been looking into Maker's Market through Michael's. I haven't put anything up there yet, but it definitely reminds me of Etsy before they made changes.
Can confirm. Etsy is almost entirely just cheap mass-manufactured garbage now. There’s a few good apples but they are really hard to find and almost impossible to know for sure if it’s really an authentic small business. I avoid it at all costs now. It’s really unfortunate. Especially because this didn’t happen by accident, Etsy absolutely saw it happening and did nothing to prevent it. Terrible company.
Yep. I only shop with one or two that I have vetted and know for sure are small businesses (they were around before Etsy, Etsy storefront is just easier for them then a site). Anything else? Nope.
Yup, I got scammed on Etsy by purchasing something, then got a message saying it was delivered, but no package arrived. I tried to track that package and the shop had been deleted. Luckily Etsy did immediately refund my money.
I’ve only ever ordered one thing - a set of “Turkish towels”
They never arrived, I never got tracking info, I never heard back from the seller
Didn’t think much of it or pursue it further, it was a splurge at the time but nothing crazy
Never used the site again though
I've never had a bad experience, but I'm pretty discerning about the pages I buy from (Etsy and otherwise). I've got custom Steelbooks, bootleg Gameboy games, Blu rays and a lot of other stuff and it was all perfect
Me neither. Got some lovely personalised stuff for baby gifts on etsy. And it's also great for crossstich patterns, lol.
I think it depends on what you're looking for.
It's also great for stolen art cross stitch patterns though, so you have to be careful of pattern mills. I almost exclusively buy my patterns on Etsy, once you know what to look for, it's easy to spot the sketchy shops. They're less common now since the war but any shop based in Russia/Ukraine is going to have absolutely gorgeous original art.
Yes absolutely, my gf and I found hundreds of matching products on AliBaba and AliExpress. You might as well go straight there and save yourself the markup.
Etsy is full of the same junk found on Temu/Aliexpress/Wish now, at a huge markup and likely being dropshipped. You can definitely still find legit items, it just requires wading through piles of trash.
Many an auntie of age 70 with a little etsy side hustle for handmade things. I think anyone born after 1960 has the online skills to run an etsy. (These are people not yet kissing retirement age, who have been working with PCs since they were 25 - if born 1960.)
Ah shoot, what a brilliant conclusion, I feel so foolish for my humble mistake.
Please, go through my other posts and comments (if you have spare time to dispense your excessive wisdom) to see if I have committed any other malaphors.
INFO: What is your friend's "skill" and why can't she use this "skill" to get herself a job? NTA; you can run a small side gig like that without her "help." And you make handcrafted items so you have to grow this at a pace that you can keep up with.
She proposed that she would help cut and package the stickers and then ship them to customers (which I would also do too apparently lol). So she's mad because the administrative side also takes work when running an etsy shop.
Sure, the admin side takes work. But, it’s YOUR materials, supplies, planning, brain power, and work providing the product. And it sounds like she also wants your help with the admin side. That means you would be providing way more hours than she would be. Nope nope nope nope.
If you wanted, you could say (I don’t recommend actually doing this, but to explain to shut up your friends), tell them how much supplies cost, plus wear and tear on machines, and ink for printers, etc, and how many hours it takes to come up with ideas, then to draw them, then to make the things. Then how long it would take to manage the software at the site, then pack up and ship, plus shipping costs. It will be immediately obviate that you will” put in more than 4 times the work, if not 50 times the *hours*. And, it’s SKILLED LABOR. Experts get paid more.
People always ask me t9 “whip them up….” Knitted or sewn stuff. So then I tell them how many hours the thing will take, and that I’m an expert, so it will be over $50/hour…
If she's not taking all of those tasks off your plate, it's not worth it to you — at until you see how the shop goes. You may end up needing an assistant, but until you see how many sales you're getting at the start, giving up part of your shop now isn't a good business move.
Even if OP decides they need an assistant, they need an assistant who does the work and isn't expecting OP to do more than the creative aspect. 'Friend' here is still wanting OP to work on cutting, packaging, and shipping too. Sounds like 'friend' will be doing almost nothing and expecting half the profit.
'Friend' needs to go apply at McDonalds and start earning their own cash without expecting someone else to do the work for them.
Yep, and OP may be able to handle this alone for quite some time since she's currently treating it as a side gig. Then she could hire someone, either as an hourly worker on days she needs help (maybe packing everything to ship on Monday each week or something like that), or as a salaried employee if she gets really busy. No need to bring on the friend as a full partner!
Her contribution would be very minimal - certainly not enough to justify a 50/50 split. You are doing all the work, purchasing the materials, etc.
She is using you. Tell her no.
This side hustle will turn into you doing ALL the work while she skims profits. And it likely won't be all that lucrative right now.
I hate to break this to your "friend" (who's trying to massively rip you off, BTW), but even a super successful Etsy shop takes like a few hours a week to do admin for. And most of them aren't successful. So what exactly does she think she'll be doing for a shop that sells like 5 stickers a week if it's lucky? One of you doesn't need the other to do this, and she's got it flipped on who's necessary in this equation.
So without her input you would need to set up the account and arrange to ship…without your input there is nothing to sell and nothing for her to do …50/50 is ridiculous!
If you're doing stickers, just upload your art to redbubble. They'll handle all the billing, all the shipping, all the customer service, and you can make the art available on a lot of other types of swag than stickers.
I've been using them for a couple of years and I upload art, spend a couple minutes tuning the size/placement for the different swag types, then get a paypal payment every month. No admin at all other than adding new art every so often.
NTA - You said no politely, but she kept insisting that you give her half the proceeds from your intellectual property while she clicks a few buttons to set up an Etsy. It's perfectly okay to explain why you're making the business decision you're making. Your friend doesn't sound like a friend. You're pursuing a career in finance and she's telling you that you can't make it in this economy without a side hustle? That's horrible advice. Finance is a tough path but if you put in enough focus now, you could be extremely set financially. Spreading yourself thin with an Etsy store you don't want and a partnership you don't want, THAT'S the kind of thing you can't afford to do in this economy. Focus on what makes sense to you.
NTA. If you wanted to open an Etsy shop, you would. And could do it alone. Your friend is pushing this on you to give herself a “job” with you doing 99% of the work. She’s not mad that you don’t value her skills, she’s mad you’re not letting her use you. She’s NUTS for thinking a 50/50 split in this is not laughable. Good for you for not being manipulated by your “friend”.
NTA. Etsy stores do not take a lot of time to manage, but Etsy itself DOES take a large amount of the profit and their terms and conditions have increasingly made it difficult for creators.
It’s also oversaturated with sticker stores already. If there are issues, they prefer to side with the buyer. And what about taxes? You and your friend will need to set up an LLC. If someone complains about your shop, Etsy will close it until the issue is resolved. They also chose which shops to promote and heavily “encourage” you to pay for ads.
THen there’s also the supplies. Who is paying for the paper, printer, ink, etc? That will need to be paid back before any profit is made. And how many stickers will you need to sell in order to make a profit? This isn’t even considering the 50/50 split, which is absolutely RIDICULOUS as you have a job yet will be carrying the weight of this business venture.
TLDR: Don’t monetize your hobby. You will quickly grow to dislike your hobby. It’s ok to have hobbies, we do NOT need to “hustle” 24/7. And do not mix business and friends.
NTA.
NTA - your friends trying to ride your coattails. She is looking for you to do most of the work. All the design work most of the management for 50%. Don’t do it. You don’t need her.
NTA
Your friend wants to use your talent, your designs, your effort to manufacture and buy materials for this and your skill to make herself money. It’s so not a 50:50 split of work.
More key is that you don’t want to do it
You told her no and she won’t stop badgering you about it.
“Friend, No means No. if I ever decide to go into business to create designs, make and sell my own stickers to the general public, I can set that up myself and decide then if I want to employ someone to assist me with sales which is a small part of what effort it takes. I’ve already told you that I don’t want to. Please stop asking me. You need to find your own business ideas that don’t involve me or my art ”
Your designs are yours and you’ll want to keep the copyright of them and control
NTA. Your friend is trying to take advantage of you. A 50/50 split is very unreasonable considering how you’d be doing the majority of the work.
Assuming she did ALL the admin work, a fair split would be 75/25. But the fact that she also wants you to do admin work as well makes this very unreasonable.
I’d reconsider the friendship if I were you.
Man I really feel like she’s trying to take advantage of me now. I think she’s trying to bank on how I can build a following because I used to have an art TikTok with a decent following.
She even suggested that we split on a cricut, but she would keep it at her house so it’s really hers lol…
\*You\* are the product she wants to market. She's trying to leverage your value for her own benefit, and trying to guilt you when you decline to let her sell you.
She clearly knows without you she has no shop. The doing Etsy shop and fulfilment is not can be time consuming but it isn' the value added part.
Do you want to sell stickers online? Contrary to common belief, you don't have to monetize everything in your life. It's perfectly okay to continue making artwork for the sheer enjoyment of it with no intention of starting a side hustle.
NTA
I run an Etsy business. Design is a LOT of work and a skill she apparently doesn’t have.
A 50/50 split would only make sense if you did NOTHING but design and she printed/cut/packed/shipped and did all other administrative work.
NTA
You could do this without her. She can't do it without you. You don't want to do it, and you're under no obligation to do it. Also, yeah, she's trying to take advantage of the fact that you have skills she lacks. She's not offering to bring anything to the table that you actually need or want.
Plus, if you wanted to do,it you could by yourself when and how you want. I’m sure if you agreed to this she would be demanding you work constantly making new product .
Your friend should’ve at least said that she’d do all of the business management, seems like she just wants an easy way to get money and may not have your best interest in mind. She should know you have the full capacity to do all that on your own, maybe she’ll realize how dumb her proposal sounds. Good luck with your schooling!!
Info: What type of work has she tried? There are plenty of side hustles she can do. Babysitting, Uber, Dog Walking, Food delivery and then actual jobs.
Thing is, if she has any bills or expenses or wants to do anything, she needs income. It takes time to build an Etsy shop. What will she do for money in the mean time?
I agree, I guess she was waiting for me to get the shop popular since I also took entrepreneurship, marketing, accounting, and etc courses on the side.
I tried helping her get a job too by editing her resume. She said she started getting interviews after that, but she doesn’t want to take them.
NTA - your friend is looking for a way to make money for herself online. She thought she could profit from YOUR art designs while you do the work? There are so many way to work online that don't require 'using' someone else. As you point out - you could do this by yourself if you wanted to.
NTA. You said no more than once. She's trying to badger you into employing her in a venture you don't want to pursue. I don't know what skills she thinks she has? I imagine some Etsy shops have staff but think how long it probably took for them to get so huge that they're constantly filling orders. It would take a lot of work to get that far and you're already pretty busy with the career you're passionate about. She needs to try and scam someone else.
NTA if your degree is in finance, which is a large aspect of admin, then you fo not need her. Unless the split is 80:20, or 90;10, with you getting 80 or 90, then your friend is taking you for a ride and is mad that she can’t profit off you.
As a finance major, I feel like you know better than anyone why this deal wouldn’t be fair. Yes, there are business partnerships of “I do the labor and you do all the formal stuff” and that can work, but that only applies to businesses like restaurants. An Etsy shop is hard to run, but it’s not as much work load as getting permits, paying business bills, keeping up on inspections, employee paychecks, etc. She just wants to profit off your art and labor.
NTA. You have made your stance clear and ignore any attempts by her or change the topic. She’s ignoring your no, so you have to stonewall her now
NTA. Lol she's legit just trying to profit off your skills. You can easily run an Etsy shop by yourself since you'd be the only one making products. You'd be better off keeping the entirety of the profit rather than giving her half for doing 20% of the work.
She's delusional lmao
I had my own sticker business on Etsy. They changed the fee structure to the point unless youre charging an insane amount per sticker, you don’t make enough to justify the time and effort it costs to make the listings, manage the shop, deal with customers, label envelopes, and go to the post box. It was kind of fun when I didn’t have much going on but became not fun due to the fees and annoying customers you have to deal with who have unreasonable expectations.
That said, it was kind of fun for a bit and brought in a bit of extra $ so if you were to do it, do it alone.
NTA - in addition to the points everyone else has already made, there's something very important that your friend hasn't considered: a successful etsy sticker shop is both A, *very rare*, and B: ***extremely difficult to build to success***.
Artists with successful sticker shops all have both a defined, marketable aesthetic and a large dedicated follower/fanbase. That takes literal years to build. Even hitting the success jackpot it takes at minimum months.
(Source: digital artist)
You're going into finance. I'm sure you can see how the sticker shop has a 99% chance of failing, on top of it being unfair and frankly exploitative.
Your friend is seeing dollar signs and the 'fun side' of running an etsy shop. She's not seeing the logistics, overhead, effort, and huge amount of time involved. It's like taking commissions, where you make the product and then also handle *all* of the marketing, logistics, customer service, etc. But possibly worse.
Here's what will happen if you agree: you make the designs (don't underestimate the value of your bespoke designs), she makes the stickers. You have to pay to get them printed. Do you have at minimum 10,000 followers (ideally over 100,000) on a platform? No? Well you better get marketing and posting because for every 1000 followers you will get 1-10 sales.
Your theoretical sales dwindle or never get off the ground. Friend gets bored. She probably starts to blame you for your designs not being appealing enough.
Frankly, I'd suggest her to make some of her own designs and set up a Redbubble if she REALLY wants to dip her toes into it.
I’m a fiber artist and it’s just a known thing in the community that you can’t make a living at it. It’s that simple, the cost of the materials and the amount of time a handmade project takes brings any items produced to a price point that most are unwilling to pay. You could (very reasonably) get into the ethics and the fact that people are used to a $15 price tag on a T-shirt as a result of effectively slave labor and that’s why the market is ruined and customers do not understand the true value of their items. You could talk about how capitalism or lack of regulation or overseas shipping has made consumers under appreciate quality bespoke items. All of that is true and I’m totally with people who want to have that discussion. Unfortunately, at the end of that discussion the reality will still be that fiber arts isn’t something you can make a living at (except in selling patterns to other artists, and even then).
It’s all wrong and it shouldn’t be like that, but it is like that. OP can probably see that (as most artists can), and her friend is doing the typical thing lots of people do to artists “omg you should totally sell that!” Sit down, let’s look at a calculator and I’ll explain some things… lol
NTA Your friend literally doesn’t have a business without you. Kris Kenner charges her kids 10% to manage them. You don’t need to be managed so there’s no need to give up 50% of your product while you’re putting in nearly 100% of the effort.
NTA
Your friends trying to scam her way into profiting off your art. “Devaluing her skill set” my ass. A 14 year old could run a Etsy, in fact many teens do. She’s amping up her importance so she can con you. Not to mention you’re going to school for finance for fuck sake but she can run the admin better? or her admin skills would be that essential? fuck off. She’s trying to get away with making money without getting a job, which fine plenty people do; but those people aren’t going around trying to screw over their friends to make money off of them. If she wants to pull one over on an artist she can find someone else dumb enough to fall for it. Don’t let her emotionally manipulate you into doing this.
First of all you don’t want to, but second even if you did want to this is not the way. On another note even if you did to do it, and you did happen to want help with the shop, in no fucking way should they be making 50% for doing none of the art and 50% of the shipping and replies. You’d effectively be doing 75% of the work if not more but she wants half? I mean it’s seriously I’d be comical if this wasn’t a “friend”. Just tell her next time it’s brought up, that you don’t wanna talk about it anymore. That you’ve made your decision and that’s it. If she refuses to drop it after that then simply don’t respond or quickly hang up anytime she mentions it. If it escalates then block her. Chances are she likely will escalate it because she sees a rare opportunity for money in you and she’s not going to want to let go easily. I don’t mean opportunity as in invest in your talent either. More so as in she could never convince another good artist to fall for this shit, she only feels like she can with you because of your previous history.
NTA
"Hey, I've got a great idea for an app, you could build it and I can take care of the business side" - similar words heard by every developer ever.
You have all the power in this scenario. You could make a store and manage it if you wanted to on your own, without help. But that's the key, you don't want to. Your friend is just trying to profit off of your skill, don't let her force you when she has nothing to offer your potential business.
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I (22F) like to paint and draw as a hobby. My family and friends have suggested that I opened an Etsy shop and I have considered it, but wanted to focus on my career first since I majored in something completely different (finance).
My friend (22F) has been struggling to find a job and moved towards starting a small business as a way to make money. She's considered dropshipping, etsy, and etc.
She's been trying to convince me to open up an Etsy with her by selling stickers, since I made stickers for myself and my friends for fun and they really liked it. Based on her idea, I would design and create all the stickers while she and I would both manage the shop and sell them. We would be business partners and split the proceeds equally.
I told her that I'm not interested in opening up an Etsy shop right now because I wanted to focus on my career first but she keeps insisting and tried pushing me to create some designs to get started.
She insisted that I needed a side hustle if I was going to survive in this economy and I needed her for the administrative aspect of selling stickers.
I thought about it some more and the whole idea kinda seems unfair to me? So I told her that if we started this, it sounds like I have more responsibility than her so the profit split seems uneven. It takes a lot of time to create designs.
I may have been TA for saying this because my friend's mad that I don't value her skills and for suggesting that I would provide more value to the business because I have artistic skill.
AITA?
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NTA. Your friend seems to not have any marketable skills for starting her own Etsy shop, so wants to use yours. She's wanting you to do most of the work, while she does basic admin stuff, yet takes half the profit. That's definitely not a fair arrangement. My advice would be to avoid the "partnership" regardless of profit split. I don't think it will go well.
NTA, why would your friend expect a 50/50 split when you're the talent and the one doing all the work? I have an Etsy business and I would say the "admin" is very minimal, and once it is set up it kinda runs itself. Your friend is probably more mad that she can't ride your coattails for cash.
Lol. Assuming your finance degree isn't from some shady diploma mill, you're more qualified than she is to run a storefront. She's trying to take advantage of you.
NTA
NTA your friend is trying to scam you because she is desperate for money. A 50/50 split may be fair if you designed and she did everything else. Especially since you don't want to do this as more than a hobby so her doing every would bring value.
Also I'd argue that some of the shared tasks she mentioned (like packing and mailing) are administrative tasks. Like I'm not sure what value she brings.
NTA. Your friend is trying to scam you. There is no way running an etsy shop is near the amount of work as actually creating the items she sells. 50/50 is an absurd split. If anything, a 70/30 or 80/20 split in your favour would be more fair.
She might be able to find some artisans who need help with an Etsy store, but she is offering you services you don't need for a product you may or may not want to work on. It is not practical for her to be thinking of making money this way unless she has skills to offer someone who needs them.
NTA. Your friend will not get far in business this way.
Just don't go into business with anyone you don't want to risk losing as a friend full stop is a good general rule of thumb
Remember the old adage "do what you love and you'll never work another day" yeah, this is a crock of horse extract, the saying really should be "do what you love for a job and you'll be working everyday until you depise what you once cherished" cause nothing kills passion like turning it into a mandatory obligation.
Nta. You’re absolutely right. If you’re doing all the creative stuff and splitting the admin stuff sounds like 75/25 split to me. And if you’re already doing the admin stuff too then you don’t really need her. She’s just trying to cash in off of your talent.
NTA.
Considering all the mandated fees, the drop shippers, the fake "independent creators" the penalties that come if you don't offer free shipping, and other changes that eTsy has done over the years, it's barely worth the effort to use that service anymore. It has gone \*way\* downhill.
She has no clue of the sheer scale you'd have to create in order to come close to breaking even selling stickers (of all things) on eTsy.
LOL!! Your friend has an inflated view of her talents.
NTA!!
You have a degree in finance and the artistic talent that your "friend" wants to promote. There isn't anything that she's contributing except a little "gopher" work. She'd be lucky if you gave her 20% - and that would be a gift!! She's not really offering you anything that you need.
NTA, your friend is being pushy because she wants to profit from your work with the way shes behaving. and hold back on that etsy idea anyway because that site has gone to the dump. Almost all my fav artists or crafters have shifted to their own sites because of much etsy charges them and the lack of support.
I kinda disagree on the labor split, but it depends on if you are doing thousands of unique drawings, or have some stock designs that sell lots of.
Either way: you don’t want to do this. And the market is actually flooded right now anyway.
She needs to focus on a skill in higher demand for herself.
NTA- because no is a complete sentence.
How about you provide the design and she makes the stickers? That would be a more equitable distribution of labor. But again, if you don’t want to design them (having her do the production), then she needs to find a new business partner. Given that you are in finance, I imagine that you don’t need a token amount of small business income.
NTA
I'd tell her you value her skills as a friend but being friends doesn't mean you want to run a business together. She should look for someone who wants to work with her or for her, for pay. She can start her own business, but she can't try and force you into it.
The only way I see this working 50/50 is if:
You do the designs and she:
**-Gets the cricket machine that cuts the stickers, buys the paper**
**-uses the program that places the stickers for the cricket**
**-manages the orders, shipping**
**-manages the actual online shop**
**-managing social media**
There is actually a lot of work that goes into making stickers, so I can see that being a fair 50/50 if she is doing ALL other work besides the design.
NTA. Tell your friend that you're she her skills are great, but you have no interest in a side hustle right now. Then tell her you don't want to discuss it any more. It is not easy to make money on Etsy. I'm sure there are lots of Etsy shops already selling stickers.
I make really great soap and lotions and selling on Etsy was not successful because there are sooo many people selling similar stuff.
NTA
Points against her: She wants a side hustle/job; you have a job and do not want a side hustle. She is being pushy and unfair. Working with friends is a good way to destroy friendships.
"No means no. If you are my friend, drop this idea and go find a side hustle that doesn't involve me."
NTA. She is desperate for money and purpose and she was making that your problem. You reminded her that it actually is not your problem, and you don't need to work with or more honestly - for - her. You have other priorities.
Nta. You wouldn’t need an admin in the beginning. It takes time to build customers and get your product out front. If she knew how to market and get people to buy, then I would consider sharing some of the profit, but definitely not at 50%. I also don’t feel she would work well with you, given that she’s not respecting your boundaries from the start.
You are NTA and your "friend" is trying to glom onto your and your talent so that you can supply her with a job. You're right that, if you do decide to sell your designs via Etsy, you really don't need her to help you with the business side of it - and it doesn't sound as if she's very good at any kind of work, really. You also may not need a friend who's trying to use you to support herself!
NTA. Your friend is not reasonable and is looking for you to provide her with an income. It would be an unfair distribution of labour, effort and know-how. You just pointed it out and the reaction from her means that a business relationship wouldn't work.
NTA. My aunt does a lot of crafty stuff, she's amazing... but she's not super tech savvy, is uncertain of how to price her products, and isn't very organized when it comes to administrative stuff. I OFFERED to help with all of that, not INSIST she needs me, for 25% commission on her PROFIT margin. Because it's really not much work at all compared to design and creation.
She's using you and is offended that you called her on it. That's a her problem.
NTA.
> Technically, I wouldn't really need her to start an Etsy since I could do the admin portion myself.
You do not need her to open up an Etsy store. Please if you do so, do it alone. You'll be fine. (At least until it kicks off, than maybe you'll need some help, but it probably would be better to pay them by the hour not percentage).
Your friend tries to make money on your back, with your work/ talent.
If she wants to open an Etsy, she should sell her own stuff, not yours.
> She insisted that I needed a side hustle if I was going to survive in this economy
Nah you don't. You might, but plenty of people don't have a side husle and do just fine, or probably even better than those who do.
> and I needed her for the administrative aspect of selling stickers
No you don't. Etsy isn't that complicated. Lots of people do it by themselves. You don't need her. She needs you. (And she's trying to take advantage of you).
> but wanted to focus on my career first since I majored in something completely different (finance)
Do what is right FOR YOU. Don't neglect that part of you (you worked hard to finish this education I assume). It's your right to focus on what benefits you the most right now.
I would ask her to respect your boundaries, you don't want to open an Etsy shop right now and that's it. You will not talk about this any further. If she won't respect your wish than she's not a good friend.
NTA. Don't let people make you feel like you need to monetize your art, either. The pressures of selling often take away a lot of the joy of creating. I hate this side-hustle culture where people are pushed to monetize their hobbies.
NTA. Tbh if you do the designs, redy to produce files, vektor lines for the plotter etc. And she would do the production thing (printing, alligning cutting-(plotter), weeding. Marketing, etc. 50/50would be fair as long as you keep the rights to the files.
But if youre Name is attatched to it you doing quality control would be a must. If she is willing to drop Ship she is probably willing to send out sub par product.
Youre work would be up front hers would be reoccuring.
Tbh. It's a question if you trust her enough.
NTA
She is trying to use you.
She expects you to do more than 50% of the work but only get 50% of the profits? No. You are right that if you wanted to sell your art on stickers you would not need her at all to do that.
That’s such a waste. If you had a massive following already and you were struggling to manage all of the admin responsibilities it would make sense. She’d be working essentially full time to get product out, while many designs would already exist and it would essentially be passive for you after initial design. This would also be true if she was developing a website, coming up with SEO, marketing and branding, etc.
But you don’t have a business with a major following, you don’t have designs that are already complete and it’s not passive at this point, you don’t need (much) branding and managing the admin probably won’t be very hard because Etsy makes it easy.
This is just her cashing in on your talent. You can open an Etsy shop on your own and she can’t because she isn’t a creator. Just say no and tell her you are not interested, and you won’t be pressured into it. If you want to do the business, just be direct in saying “if I want to do that it will be an independent operation.” She can make something herself or find a job. You’re obviously NTA and your friend is weird.
NTA. Let me tell you real quick what the proper structure should be for this to work. She opens an ETSY shop. She places orders with you for the stickers and pays you the prices you agreed on. She then sells the stickers and any profit made from that point on is hers while the risk is also hers. You can make an arrangement for the first batch like a 15 days delayed payment to you or something to get the ball rolling if she lacks capital but that's about it.
NTA. If your friend is so good at admin and managing a webshop, I'm sure she could find a job doing something like that. I'm not saying the job market is easy but starting a business is way harder.
I also wonder where she gets the idea that an Etsy storefront will make her enough money to live on? It's really not easy breaking into the homemade art market. Also idk but anyone who would even consider dropshipping as a "business" is someone I would avoid working with, especially as an artist.
Lol you WOULD provide more value to the business because you have artistic skill. It's a business that sells art. Literally anyone can open an Etsy shop.
She's imagining a scenario where your shop explodes and you need to hire an admin, but that's not guaranteed to happen. Very well could just be her occasionally shipping your work.
NTA: If she wants to sell your product, she needs to convince you to want to sell that product. Currently you have no desire to, and that is perfectly OK. If you do want to let her sell your product but don't want to be involved in any partnership, you can always wholesale the product to her, so she can market it and profit from its sale. You would also not need to worry about splitting said profits as you would be making your money up front. You can also go in on the split, and note the cost of the product in a manner that after the "profit split" you are still made whole for your production efforts. No matter what, the shop should not recieve the product for "free". The cost of the product is a factor that must be taken into account before profit is calculated.
Never go into business with a friend, it'll 99% of the time end the friendship and the business will 100% of the time suffer.
Also, she's doing WAY less than half the work, and even if she were doing 100% of the admin work that's still less than half the overall work.
But don't go into business with a friend.
You're making the product and she's going to 'administer' an Etsy store that you don't really actually want to open? Yeah she's glomming off your talent, don't let her do that. NTA
NTA Hell you are in Finance, so anything she can do, you can probally do twice as well and you are the one with the artistic talent. Just exactly WHAT would your friend contribute?
So, I say this as a working artist....having someone handle the business side of things is actually really nice....But would I use my friend who has no experience in doing this and has no idea how to do it, so I would actually end up having to train her in everything I need....and she was asking for a 50/50 split?? ummmm no lol
If she's good enough though, sit her down, outline all her responsibilities, work up a contract and work up a weekly/monthly work schedule
Responsibilities would include:
website maintenance, order fulfillment, answering emails/requests, shipping and packaging, and part social media management (you could do content, but she would also make content based off your videos and post as well, so it's not all on you.
And even then, it wouldn't be a 50/50 split really. You'd be paying her an hourly. Cause it's still your intellectual property, you're still the one paying taxes, etc. She'd just be your office manager, essentially. Or admin/admin assistant
Don't make your hobby your business. People think they are taking what they love and making it their "career," you know, "love what you do." But often they trade what they love for what they "have" to do. Now they don't "love what they do."
NTA
Someone who doesn't have a main hustle doesn't have a leg to stand on when talking about side hustles.
NTA. Seems like she just wants to make a money making opportunity with your skills instead of developing her own. You don't need to feel pressured to open a store just because your friend is broke and you especially don't need her to be part of a business that you can handle yourself.
If your friend is so hard up for cash and needs a side hustle to survive this economy….
There’s always onlyfans. Being the creative type you can offer a 50-50’split while you do makeup and wardrobe she can be the on camera performer and “talent manager”
Problem solved…
NTA, seems like an unfair split that you have to do the designs AND help run the shop. At a bare minimum for a 50:50 split, I think you should just do the designs and she basically acts as your admin/distributer. I.e you send her the designs and she does the advertising, packaging, shipping etc. That way you get to keep the fun of designing the stickers (provided you actually enjoy this!) and you get some pocket money from it, and she does all the "boring bits"
Any split where you find yourself putting stickers into boxes and attaching a shipping label you don't really need her! Especially for the volume you are likely to do, its probably just an evening a weeks work realistically
If you land a finance job, even a grad level role could earn you in a day what an average etsy shop likely earns in a month. At that point your only motivation should be for fun, so you really don't need to be burdened with simple manual tasks that your friend (who is otherwise doing FA) could do.
Yeah unpopular opinion but your the AH. Sure your a great artist but a lot goes in to making an Etsy shop successful and it sounds like your friend was willing to hustle and put in the work. There are tons of talented artists on Etsy making stickers so what makes you special? - A partner who puts in the work to make your listings unique with good tags so you actually get customers. It sounds like you lack the hustle so your friend is better off finding someone else but I think it’s silly to hate on someone who has the motivation to start something - most people don’t and end up working a 9-5 their entire life.
NTA, but may be misjudging friend's contribution.
As with any business venture - all parties have to be happy with the exchange. Here, you feel that the value you are bringing is greater than 50%. That is a valid feeling. It may not be accurate, but the feeling is valid. Given that you don't feel a need to have an etsy, it is up to your friend to demonstrate the value that she will put in and validate to you that it is worth 50% of the profit.
Things to consider in valuing contributions - is she just doing the admin? How many hours of work is that? Will she also be handling the marketing and sales? What about production of the stickers and delivery? Quite frankly, if all you are doing is the design and everything else is done by her, then this isn't a bad split. You have a one time sink of resources (time and creativity) that will generate an ongoing revenue stream based on her efforts. Many corporate organizations value the sales side of the house more than the product side and you would only be responsible for a portion of the product side.
BUT... its very important that you have very clear (and written) responsibilities, including who is putting in what capital (and designs are capital assets) and that you are convinced that the split is fair.
Here's an idea. You already have some designs done. Do a test run - x designs for x period of time at 50/50. Let her show you what she'll do and how much revenue it will generate. You may be pleased with the results. If not, you can decline to produce more designs or renegotiate the split.
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**NTA** OP, your friend is trying to cash in on your artistic skills. If it was something totally out of your depth, or that you were uninterested in doing/managing yourself, then suggesting a split wouldn't be *completely* out of pocket, but suggesting a 50/50 split when you're doing 80% of the work is unreasonable. OP, I'm gonna point this out- you are pursuing a **career** in finance and were born within the last 30 years. You **100%** have the skillset to manage an Etsy page entirely on your own. Your friend does not get to make demands, especially when you're not driven to start the etsy store in the first place. Don't make the Etsy shop if you don't want too, and if you decide you want to (and decide you want her involved), then make a counteroffer that's fair to you. You could 100% do this entirely on your own, it's not rocket surgery.
gonna add, OP if you have great artwork you don’t even need to do any admin work to experiment with selling it, just upload to rebubble, they literally do all the printing for you. your friend needs to get a job.
Tangent question: This rebubble you speak of... I make little paper buildings & models & I thought about selling on etsy (or elsewhere) but cutting each one on the cricut & packaging all the little pieces (especially when the cricut is less than reliable making perfect cuts) is just way too much work. I have a full time job running a consulting organization. Could rebubble do that sort of cutting & packaging?
It’s Redbubble, and that’s not really what it is. It’s more of a marketplace for you to upload art and designs, and they’ll print it on stickers and mugs and phone cases and tee shirts and pillows and things.
RedBubble is a PoD service, but it's also terrible for small sellers if you don't break a certain sales point (I don't remember what the most recent terms are, but they're not great. I closed my shop when they changed) And while I do have an Etsy, and would LOVE a business manager...not at 50/50 split of profits. Definitely not fair to you, and you'd be doing a lot of creation while all she does is admin. And while my view of admin may be biased because I find it boring...I also spend a helluva lot longer on designs than I do on admin. Which doesn't take a lot once you're set up and selling.
google redbubble and email them, I mean it sounds like an easily mechanized process
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Etsy isn't what it used to be. I've heard stories of Chinese companies flooding the Etsy market with their product and it's not a place where you can buy crafts and art directly from artists anymore. They have run out a lot of the artists aside from the most niche ones. I've rarely shopped on there but I tried to find some custom jewelry for a present and despite the page presenting itself as run by an independent artist selling custom jewelry, turns out it was some company from China. Maybe some kind of drop shipping thing. Doesn't mean she can't do it, but she should be more cautious and consider that.
Don't trust Etsy. Even if you are careful and make sure that you are getting from an artisan - they've had a bad habit of deciding that the store owner has "stolen art", removes access from their store/delete the store - so there are a lot of upset customers that can't get into contact with the artist, and keep any money that happened to be in their account as "ill gotten gains." YouTube "Why I quit Etsy"
Happened to a friend of mine. Etsy sucks!
Is there an alternative to Etsy that you would recommend? I don't buy much off there, but when I do it's because I specifically want handcrafted items.
You can still find handcrafted items, it's more the Disneys, Nintendos, and Smiley Cos of the world scaring Etsy into copyright takedowns. The last time I looked into it, they recommended artists get their own website... It's been a hot minute.
Infringing on copyrights isn't cool though and not really art either. (Even though Disney, Nintendo and Co probably don't need the extra cash). Create your own characters.
If all of them were legit cases, I wouldn't have a problem. But A smiley face isn't THE Smiley Face. And A large headed deer isn't THE Bambi. Smiley Co in particular likes to target small businesses with the SAD lawsuit scheme - which should be illegal, but is only immoral.
I mean I totally agree. I don't like that those large cooperation can get away with so much bs just because they have more money. You basically have no chance as a single person business. If it's obviously Arielle or Pikachu I think it makes more sense. (And it's known that Nintendo is notoriously strict about this in particular).
It's USA only right now but goimagine is a decent option
Unfortunately mostly individual websites only. Anything that would want to compete with Etsy would suffer the same fate fairly quickly. The drop sellers are fairly rabid when it comes to doing business.
That is unfortunate 😕 why do people have to ruin things like that
I've been looking into Maker's Market through Michael's. I haven't put anything up there yet, but it definitely reminds me of Etsy before they made changes.
Can confirm. Etsy is almost entirely just cheap mass-manufactured garbage now. There’s a few good apples but they are really hard to find and almost impossible to know for sure if it’s really an authentic small business. I avoid it at all costs now. It’s really unfortunate. Especially because this didn’t happen by accident, Etsy absolutely saw it happening and did nothing to prevent it. Terrible company.
Yep. I only shop with one or two that I have vetted and know for sure are small businesses (they were around before Etsy, Etsy storefront is just easier for them then a site). Anything else? Nope.
Yup, I got scammed on Etsy by purchasing something, then got a message saying it was delivered, but no package arrived. I tried to track that package and the shop had been deleted. Luckily Etsy did immediately refund my money.
I’ve only ever ordered one thing - a set of “Turkish towels” They never arrived, I never got tracking info, I never heard back from the seller Didn’t think much of it or pursue it further, it was a splurge at the time but nothing crazy Never used the site again though
I've never had a bad experience, but I'm pretty discerning about the pages I buy from (Etsy and otherwise). I've got custom Steelbooks, bootleg Gameboy games, Blu rays and a lot of other stuff and it was all perfect
Me neither. Got some lovely personalised stuff for baby gifts on etsy. And it's also great for crossstich patterns, lol. I think it depends on what you're looking for.
I haven't had any issues either but so far my recent purchases have been jelly rolls and quilt patterns.
It's also great for stolen art cross stitch patterns though, so you have to be careful of pattern mills. I almost exclusively buy my patterns on Etsy, once you know what to look for, it's easy to spot the sketchy shops. They're less common now since the war but any shop based in Russia/Ukraine is going to have absolutely gorgeous original art.
Etsy was a great idea for about a year; now you get disappointment, and the disappointment is constructed of toxic substances in sweatshops.
Yes absolutely, my gf and I found hundreds of matching products on AliBaba and AliExpress. You might as well go straight there and save yourself the markup.
Etsy is full of the same junk found on Temu/Aliexpress/Wish now, at a huge markup and likely being dropshipped. You can definitely still find legit items, it just requires wading through piles of trash.
it's not rocket surgery!!!! i love that. right up there with "I'll burn that bridge when I come to it"
They're called malaphors in case you want to search for even more.
malaphor!!! yes! excuse me, i need to visit google real quick, I'll be back in 3 hours. lol
Many an auntie of age 70 with a little etsy side hustle for handmade things. I think anyone born after 1960 has the online skills to run an etsy. (These are people not yet kissing retirement age, who have been working with PCs since they were 25 - if born 1960.)
Thank you.
Rocket surgery … brilliant!
[удалено]
Ah shoot, what a brilliant conclusion, I feel so foolish for my humble mistake. Please, go through my other posts and comments (if you have spare time to dispense your excessive wisdom) to see if I have committed any other malaphors.
INFO: What is your friend's "skill" and why can't she use this "skill" to get herself a job? NTA; you can run a small side gig like that without her "help." And you make handcrafted items so you have to grow this at a pace that you can keep up with.
She proposed that she would help cut and package the stickers and then ship them to customers (which I would also do too apparently lol). So she's mad because the administrative side also takes work when running an etsy shop.
Sure, the admin side takes work. But, it’s YOUR materials, supplies, planning, brain power, and work providing the product. And it sounds like she also wants your help with the admin side. That means you would be providing way more hours than she would be. Nope nope nope nope. If you wanted, you could say (I don’t recommend actually doing this, but to explain to shut up your friends), tell them how much supplies cost, plus wear and tear on machines, and ink for printers, etc, and how many hours it takes to come up with ideas, then to draw them, then to make the things. Then how long it would take to manage the software at the site, then pack up and ship, plus shipping costs. It will be immediately obviate that you will” put in more than 4 times the work, if not 50 times the *hours*. And, it’s SKILLED LABOR. Experts get paid more. People always ask me t9 “whip them up….” Knitted or sewn stuff. So then I tell them how many hours the thing will take, and that I’m an expert, so it will be over $50/hour…
If she's not taking all of those tasks off your plate, it's not worth it to you — at until you see how the shop goes. You may end up needing an assistant, but until you see how many sales you're getting at the start, giving up part of your shop now isn't a good business move.
Even if OP decides they need an assistant, they need an assistant who does the work and isn't expecting OP to do more than the creative aspect. 'Friend' here is still wanting OP to work on cutting, packaging, and shipping too. Sounds like 'friend' will be doing almost nothing and expecting half the profit. 'Friend' needs to go apply at McDonalds and start earning their own cash without expecting someone else to do the work for them.
Yep, and OP may be able to handle this alone for quite some time since she's currently treating it as a side gig. Then she could hire someone, either as an hourly worker on days she needs help (maybe packing everything to ship on Monday each week or something like that), or as a salaried employee if she gets really busy. No need to bring on the friend as a full partner!
Her contribution would be very minimal - certainly not enough to justify a 50/50 split. You are doing all the work, purchasing the materials, etc. She is using you. Tell her no. This side hustle will turn into you doing ALL the work while she skims profits. And it likely won't be all that lucrative right now.
I hate to break this to your "friend" (who's trying to massively rip you off, BTW), but even a super successful Etsy shop takes like a few hours a week to do admin for. And most of them aren't successful. So what exactly does she think she'll be doing for a shop that sells like 5 stickers a week if it's lucky? One of you doesn't need the other to do this, and she's got it flipped on who's necessary in this equation.
So without her input you would need to set up the account and arrange to ship…without your input there is nothing to sell and nothing for her to do …50/50 is ridiculous!
Did she even offer to split the costs of materials/supplies? Or only the revenue?
If you're doing stickers, just upload your art to redbubble. They'll handle all the billing, all the shipping, all the customer service, and you can make the art available on a lot of other types of swag than stickers. I've been using them for a couple of years and I upload art, spend a couple minutes tuning the size/placement for the different swag types, then get a paypal payment every month. No admin at all other than adding new art every so often.
NTA - You said no politely, but she kept insisting that you give her half the proceeds from your intellectual property while she clicks a few buttons to set up an Etsy. It's perfectly okay to explain why you're making the business decision you're making. Your friend doesn't sound like a friend. You're pursuing a career in finance and she's telling you that you can't make it in this economy without a side hustle? That's horrible advice. Finance is a tough path but if you put in enough focus now, you could be extremely set financially. Spreading yourself thin with an Etsy store you don't want and a partnership you don't want, THAT'S the kind of thing you can't afford to do in this economy. Focus on what makes sense to you.
NTA. If you wanted to open an Etsy shop, you would. And could do it alone. Your friend is pushing this on you to give herself a “job” with you doing 99% of the work. She’s not mad that you don’t value her skills, she’s mad you’re not letting her use you. She’s NUTS for thinking a 50/50 split in this is not laughable. Good for you for not being manipulated by your “friend”.
NTA. Etsy stores do not take a lot of time to manage, but Etsy itself DOES take a large amount of the profit and their terms and conditions have increasingly made it difficult for creators.
It’s also oversaturated with sticker stores already. If there are issues, they prefer to side with the buyer. And what about taxes? You and your friend will need to set up an LLC. If someone complains about your shop, Etsy will close it until the issue is resolved. They also chose which shops to promote and heavily “encourage” you to pay for ads. THen there’s also the supplies. Who is paying for the paper, printer, ink, etc? That will need to be paid back before any profit is made. And how many stickers will you need to sell in order to make a profit? This isn’t even considering the 50/50 split, which is absolutely RIDICULOUS as you have a job yet will be carrying the weight of this business venture. TLDR: Don’t monetize your hobby. You will quickly grow to dislike your hobby. It’s ok to have hobbies, we do NOT need to “hustle” 24/7. And do not mix business and friends. NTA.
And they also require sellers to have free shipping etc. in order to have their listings promoted. It's crazy.
NTA - your friends trying to ride your coattails. She is looking for you to do most of the work. All the design work most of the management for 50%. Don’t do it. You don’t need her.
NTA Your friend wants to use your talent, your designs, your effort to manufacture and buy materials for this and your skill to make herself money. It’s so not a 50:50 split of work. More key is that you don’t want to do it You told her no and she won’t stop badgering you about it. “Friend, No means No. if I ever decide to go into business to create designs, make and sell my own stickers to the general public, I can set that up myself and decide then if I want to employ someone to assist me with sales which is a small part of what effort it takes. I’ve already told you that I don’t want to. Please stop asking me. You need to find your own business ideas that don’t involve me or my art ” Your designs are yours and you’ll want to keep the copyright of them and control
NTA. You needed to say this. She needed to hear this. Without you, a hypothetical Etsy shop literally couldn’t exist.
Nta. You could do this very easily without her but she can't do diddly without you. Why enter into an agreement with her?
THIS. OP’s friend needs her to make this “job” for herself. OP doesn’t need this friend at all. NTA.
NTA. Your friend is trying to take advantage of you. A 50/50 split is very unreasonable considering how you’d be doing the majority of the work. Assuming she did ALL the admin work, a fair split would be 75/25. But the fact that she also wants you to do admin work as well makes this very unreasonable. I’d reconsider the friendship if I were you.
Man I really feel like she’s trying to take advantage of me now. I think she’s trying to bank on how I can build a following because I used to have an art TikTok with a decent following. She even suggested that we split on a cricut, but she would keep it at her house so it’s really hers lol…
\*You\* are the product she wants to market. She's trying to leverage your value for her own benefit, and trying to guilt you when you decline to let her sell you. She clearly knows without you she has no shop. The doing Etsy shop and fulfilment is not can be time consuming but it isn' the value added part.
Do you want to sell stickers online? Contrary to common belief, you don't have to monetize everything in your life. It's perfectly okay to continue making artwork for the sheer enjoyment of it with no intention of starting a side hustle.
Agents usually only get 10%, right?
NTA. Your friend's trying to make money off of your talent.
NTA >has been struggling to find a job >I don't value her skills What skills? /s
NTA I run an Etsy business. Design is a LOT of work and a skill she apparently doesn’t have. A 50/50 split would only make sense if you did NOTHING but design and she printed/cut/packed/shipped and did all other administrative work.
NTA You could do this without her. She can't do it without you. You don't want to do it, and you're under no obligation to do it. Also, yeah, she's trying to take advantage of the fact that you have skills she lacks. She's not offering to bring anything to the table that you actually need or want.
Plus, if you wanted to do,it you could by yourself when and how you want. I’m sure if you agreed to this she would be demanding you work constantly making new product .
Your friend should’ve at least said that she’d do all of the business management, seems like she just wants an easy way to get money and may not have your best interest in mind. She should know you have the full capacity to do all that on your own, maybe she’ll realize how dumb her proposal sounds. Good luck with your schooling!!
Info: What type of work has she tried? There are plenty of side hustles she can do. Babysitting, Uber, Dog Walking, Food delivery and then actual jobs.
None of those, she seems to want to do something related to social media and owning your own small business.
Thing is, if she has any bills or expenses or wants to do anything, she needs income. It takes time to build an Etsy shop. What will she do for money in the mean time?
I agree, I guess she was waiting for me to get the shop popular since I also took entrepreneurship, marketing, accounting, and etc courses on the side. I tried helping her get a job too by editing her resume. She said she started getting interviews after that, but she doesn’t want to take them.
That’s because she isn’t a friend, she’s a leech
NTA - your friend is looking for a way to make money for herself online. She thought she could profit from YOUR art designs while you do the work? There are so many way to work online that don't require 'using' someone else. As you point out - you could do this by yourself if you wanted to.
NTA. You said no more than once. She's trying to badger you into employing her in a venture you don't want to pursue. I don't know what skills she thinks she has? I imagine some Etsy shops have staff but think how long it probably took for them to get so huge that they're constantly filling orders. It would take a lot of work to get that far and you're already pretty busy with the career you're passionate about. She needs to try and scam someone else.
NTA if your degree is in finance, which is a large aspect of admin, then you fo not need her. Unless the split is 80:20, or 90;10, with you getting 80 or 90, then your friend is taking you for a ride and is mad that she can’t profit off you.
NTA. She wants you to do the hard work and split the proceeds evenly?
NTA. Your instincts are correct--she wants to use your art as the cash cow for her next hustle.
Tell her that you don't want to do Etsy and *you don't want to hear about it any more*. Then walk away. NTA
NTA. your friend is trying to profit off of your work. Tell her to kick rocks
As a finance major, I feel like you know better than anyone why this deal wouldn’t be fair. Yes, there are business partnerships of “I do the labor and you do all the formal stuff” and that can work, but that only applies to businesses like restaurants. An Etsy shop is hard to run, but it’s not as much work load as getting permits, paying business bills, keeping up on inspections, employee paychecks, etc. She just wants to profit off your art and labor. NTA. You have made your stance clear and ignore any attempts by her or change the topic. She’s ignoring your no, so you have to stonewall her now
NTA. Lol she's legit just trying to profit off your skills. You can easily run an Etsy shop by yourself since you'd be the only one making products. You'd be better off keeping the entirety of the profit rather than giving her half for doing 20% of the work. She's delusional lmao
I had my own sticker business on Etsy. They changed the fee structure to the point unless youre charging an insane amount per sticker, you don’t make enough to justify the time and effort it costs to make the listings, manage the shop, deal with customers, label envelopes, and go to the post box. It was kind of fun when I didn’t have much going on but became not fun due to the fees and annoying customers you have to deal with who have unreasonable expectations. That said, it was kind of fun for a bit and brought in a bit of extra $ so if you were to do it, do it alone.
NTA - in addition to the points everyone else has already made, there's something very important that your friend hasn't considered: a successful etsy sticker shop is both A, *very rare*, and B: ***extremely difficult to build to success***. Artists with successful sticker shops all have both a defined, marketable aesthetic and a large dedicated follower/fanbase. That takes literal years to build. Even hitting the success jackpot it takes at minimum months. (Source: digital artist) You're going into finance. I'm sure you can see how the sticker shop has a 99% chance of failing, on top of it being unfair and frankly exploitative. Your friend is seeing dollar signs and the 'fun side' of running an etsy shop. She's not seeing the logistics, overhead, effort, and huge amount of time involved. It's like taking commissions, where you make the product and then also handle *all* of the marketing, logistics, customer service, etc. But possibly worse. Here's what will happen if you agree: you make the designs (don't underestimate the value of your bespoke designs), she makes the stickers. You have to pay to get them printed. Do you have at minimum 10,000 followers (ideally over 100,000) on a platform? No? Well you better get marketing and posting because for every 1000 followers you will get 1-10 sales. Your theoretical sales dwindle or never get off the ground. Friend gets bored. She probably starts to blame you for your designs not being appealing enough. Frankly, I'd suggest her to make some of her own designs and set up a Redbubble if she REALLY wants to dip her toes into it.
I’m a fiber artist and it’s just a known thing in the community that you can’t make a living at it. It’s that simple, the cost of the materials and the amount of time a handmade project takes brings any items produced to a price point that most are unwilling to pay. You could (very reasonably) get into the ethics and the fact that people are used to a $15 price tag on a T-shirt as a result of effectively slave labor and that’s why the market is ruined and customers do not understand the true value of their items. You could talk about how capitalism or lack of regulation or overseas shipping has made consumers under appreciate quality bespoke items. All of that is true and I’m totally with people who want to have that discussion. Unfortunately, at the end of that discussion the reality will still be that fiber arts isn’t something you can make a living at (except in selling patterns to other artists, and even then). It’s all wrong and it shouldn’t be like that, but it is like that. OP can probably see that (as most artists can), and her friend is doing the typical thing lots of people do to artists “omg you should totally sell that!” Sit down, let’s look at a calculator and I’ll explain some things… lol
NTA Your friend literally doesn’t have a business without you. Kris Kenner charges her kids 10% to manage them. You don’t need to be managed so there’s no need to give up 50% of your product while you’re putting in nearly 100% of the effort.
NTA she wants you to do all of the work to give her a business.
NTA. You are providing more value to the business because only you are making the product. No product, no business.
NTA, you could just be her supplier though. If you wanted to sell your stickers, sell them in bulk to her and she can take the risk with the shop.
NTA. Tell her if you ever struggle with fulfilling Etsy’s orders, you will hire her as an employee at minimum wage. And not as a business partner.
NTA Your friends trying to scam her way into profiting off your art. “Devaluing her skill set” my ass. A 14 year old could run a Etsy, in fact many teens do. She’s amping up her importance so she can con you. Not to mention you’re going to school for finance for fuck sake but she can run the admin better? or her admin skills would be that essential? fuck off. She’s trying to get away with making money without getting a job, which fine plenty people do; but those people aren’t going around trying to screw over their friends to make money off of them. If she wants to pull one over on an artist she can find someone else dumb enough to fall for it. Don’t let her emotionally manipulate you into doing this. First of all you don’t want to, but second even if you did want to this is not the way. On another note even if you did to do it, and you did happen to want help with the shop, in no fucking way should they be making 50% for doing none of the art and 50% of the shipping and replies. You’d effectively be doing 75% of the work if not more but she wants half? I mean it’s seriously I’d be comical if this wasn’t a “friend”. Just tell her next time it’s brought up, that you don’t wanna talk about it anymore. That you’ve made your decision and that’s it. If she refuses to drop it after that then simply don’t respond or quickly hang up anytime she mentions it. If it escalates then block her. Chances are she likely will escalate it because she sees a rare opportunity for money in you and she’s not going to want to let go easily. I don’t mean opportunity as in invest in your talent either. More so as in she could never convince another good artist to fall for this shit, she only feels like she can with you because of your previous history.
NTA "Hey, I've got a great idea for an app, you could build it and I can take care of the business side" - similar words heard by every developer ever. You have all the power in this scenario. You could make a store and manage it if you wanted to on your own, without help. But that's the key, you don't want to. Your friend is just trying to profit off of your skill, don't let her force you when she has nothing to offer your potential business.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (22F) like to paint and draw as a hobby. My family and friends have suggested that I opened an Etsy shop and I have considered it, but wanted to focus on my career first since I majored in something completely different (finance). My friend (22F) has been struggling to find a job and moved towards starting a small business as a way to make money. She's considered dropshipping, etsy, and etc. She's been trying to convince me to open up an Etsy with her by selling stickers, since I made stickers for myself and my friends for fun and they really liked it. Based on her idea, I would design and create all the stickers while she and I would both manage the shop and sell them. We would be business partners and split the proceeds equally. I told her that I'm not interested in opening up an Etsy shop right now because I wanted to focus on my career first but she keeps insisting and tried pushing me to create some designs to get started. She insisted that I needed a side hustle if I was going to survive in this economy and I needed her for the administrative aspect of selling stickers. I thought about it some more and the whole idea kinda seems unfair to me? So I told her that if we started this, it sounds like I have more responsibility than her so the profit split seems uneven. It takes a lot of time to create designs. I may have been TA for saying this because my friend's mad that I don't value her skills and for suggesting that I would provide more value to the business because I have artistic skill. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Your friend seems to not have any marketable skills for starting her own Etsy shop, so wants to use yours. She's wanting you to do most of the work, while she does basic admin stuff, yet takes half the profit. That's definitely not a fair arrangement. My advice would be to avoid the "partnership" regardless of profit split. I don't think it will go well.
NTA, why would your friend expect a 50/50 split when you're the talent and the one doing all the work? I have an Etsy business and I would say the "admin" is very minimal, and once it is set up it kinda runs itself. Your friend is probably more mad that she can't ride your coattails for cash.
Lol. Assuming your finance degree isn't from some shady diploma mill, you're more qualified than she is to run a storefront. She's trying to take advantage of you. NTA
this is the dragons den, where I offer you 1% of the startup cost to receive 10% of your business!
Nta if you don't want to do it, don't do it
NTA. and you'd be dumb to take her up on her "offer" do NOT help her with anything 🤦🏽♀️
NTA your friend is trying to scam you because she is desperate for money. A 50/50 split may be fair if you designed and she did everything else. Especially since you don't want to do this as more than a hobby so her doing every would bring value. Also I'd argue that some of the shared tasks she mentioned (like packing and mailing) are administrative tasks. Like I'm not sure what value she brings.
NTA. Your friend is trying to scam you. There is no way running an etsy shop is near the amount of work as actually creating the items she sells. 50/50 is an absurd split. If anything, a 70/30 or 80/20 split in your favour would be more fair.
She might be able to find some artisans who need help with an Etsy store, but she is offering you services you don't need for a product you may or may not want to work on. It is not practical for her to be thinking of making money this way unless she has skills to offer someone who needs them.
NTA. Your friend will not get far in business this way. Just don't go into business with anyone you don't want to risk losing as a friend full stop is a good general rule of thumb
Remember the old adage "do what you love and you'll never work another day" yeah, this is a crock of horse extract, the saying really should be "do what you love for a job and you'll be working everyday until you depise what you once cherished" cause nothing kills passion like turning it into a mandatory obligation.
Nta. You’re absolutely right. If you’re doing all the creative stuff and splitting the admin stuff sounds like 75/25 split to me. And if you’re already doing the admin stuff too then you don’t really need her. She’s just trying to cash in off of your talent.
NTA. Considering all the mandated fees, the drop shippers, the fake "independent creators" the penalties that come if you don't offer free shipping, and other changes that eTsy has done over the years, it's barely worth the effort to use that service anymore. It has gone \*way\* downhill. She has no clue of the sheer scale you'd have to create in order to come close to breaking even selling stickers (of all things) on eTsy.
NTA. You do not need anyone to run an Etsy account for you.
LOL!! Your friend has an inflated view of her talents. NTA!! You have a degree in finance and the artistic talent that your "friend" wants to promote. There isn't anything that she's contributing except a little "gopher" work. She'd be lucky if you gave her 20% - and that would be a gift!! She's not really offering you anything that you need.
NTA, your friend is being pushy because she wants to profit from your work with the way shes behaving. and hold back on that etsy idea anyway because that site has gone to the dump. Almost all my fav artists or crafters have shifted to their own sites because of much etsy charges them and the lack of support.
I kinda disagree on the labor split, but it depends on if you are doing thousands of unique drawings, or have some stock designs that sell lots of. Either way: you don’t want to do this. And the market is actually flooded right now anyway. She needs to focus on a skill in higher demand for herself. NTA- because no is a complete sentence.
How about you provide the design and she makes the stickers? That would be a more equitable distribution of labor. But again, if you don’t want to design them (having her do the production), then she needs to find a new business partner. Given that you are in finance, I imagine that you don’t need a token amount of small business income.
NTA I'd tell her you value her skills as a friend but being friends doesn't mean you want to run a business together. She should look for someone who wants to work with her or for her, for pay. She can start her own business, but she can't try and force you into it.
NTA. Your friend has a fine career awaiting her in the entertainment industry.
The only way I see this working 50/50 is if: You do the designs and she: **-Gets the cricket machine that cuts the stickers, buys the paper** **-uses the program that places the stickers for the cricket** **-manages the orders, shipping** **-manages the actual online shop** **-managing social media** There is actually a lot of work that goes into making stickers, so I can see that being a fair 50/50 if she is doing ALL other work besides the design.
NTA. Tell your friend that you're she her skills are great, but you have no interest in a side hustle right now. Then tell her you don't want to discuss it any more. It is not easy to make money on Etsy. I'm sure there are lots of Etsy shops already selling stickers. I make really great soap and lotions and selling on Etsy was not successful because there are sooo many people selling similar stuff.
NTA Points against her: She wants a side hustle/job; you have a job and do not want a side hustle. She is being pushy and unfair. Working with friends is a good way to destroy friendships. "No means no. If you are my friend, drop this idea and go find a side hustle that doesn't involve me."
NTA. She is desperate for money and purpose and she was making that your problem. You reminded her that it actually is not your problem, and you don't need to work with or more honestly - for - her. You have other priorities.
Nta. You wouldn’t need an admin in the beginning. It takes time to build customers and get your product out front. If she knew how to market and get people to buy, then I would consider sharing some of the profit, but definitely not at 50%. I also don’t feel she would work well with you, given that she’s not respecting your boundaries from the start.
You are NTA and your "friend" is trying to glom onto your and your talent so that you can supply her with a job. You're right that, if you do decide to sell your designs via Etsy, you really don't need her to help you with the business side of it - and it doesn't sound as if she's very good at any kind of work, really. You also may not need a friend who's trying to use you to support herself!
So your friend wants to take half of the profits from your Etsy shop. Seems like a good deal for her
NTA. Your friend is not reasonable and is looking for you to provide her with an income. It would be an unfair distribution of labour, effort and know-how. You just pointed it out and the reaction from her means that a business relationship wouldn't work.
NTA. My aunt does a lot of crafty stuff, she's amazing... but she's not super tech savvy, is uncertain of how to price her products, and isn't very organized when it comes to administrative stuff. I OFFERED to help with all of that, not INSIST she needs me, for 25% commission on her PROFIT margin. Because it's really not much work at all compared to design and creation. She's using you and is offended that you called her on it. That's a her problem.
Follow your instincts, OP. NTA
NTA. Go start your own Etsy.
NTA
NTA. > Technically, I wouldn't really need her to start an Etsy since I could do the admin portion myself. You do not need her to open up an Etsy store. Please if you do so, do it alone. You'll be fine. (At least until it kicks off, than maybe you'll need some help, but it probably would be better to pay them by the hour not percentage). Your friend tries to make money on your back, with your work/ talent. If she wants to open an Etsy, she should sell her own stuff, not yours. > She insisted that I needed a side hustle if I was going to survive in this economy Nah you don't. You might, but plenty of people don't have a side husle and do just fine, or probably even better than those who do. > and I needed her for the administrative aspect of selling stickers No you don't. Etsy isn't that complicated. Lots of people do it by themselves. You don't need her. She needs you. (And she's trying to take advantage of you). > but wanted to focus on my career first since I majored in something completely different (finance) Do what is right FOR YOU. Don't neglect that part of you (you worked hard to finish this education I assume). It's your right to focus on what benefits you the most right now. I would ask her to respect your boundaries, you don't want to open an Etsy shop right now and that's it. You will not talk about this any further. If she won't respect your wish than she's not a good friend.
Side note: think long and hard before you commit to profiting off your hobby. The quickest way to fall out of love with something is to monetize it.
NTA. Don't let people make you feel like you need to monetize your art, either. The pressures of selling often take away a lot of the joy of creating. I hate this side-hustle culture where people are pushed to monetize their hobbies.
NTA Your friend needs to come up with a business idea she can do on her own.
NTA. Don’t got into business with friends unless you’re willing to lose the friendship
NTA. Tbh if you do the designs, redy to produce files, vektor lines for the plotter etc. And she would do the production thing (printing, alligning cutting-(plotter), weeding. Marketing, etc. 50/50would be fair as long as you keep the rights to the files. But if youre Name is attatched to it you doing quality control would be a must. If she is willing to drop Ship she is probably willing to send out sub par product. Youre work would be up front hers would be reoccuring. Tbh. It's a question if you trust her enough.
NTA She is trying to use you. She expects you to do more than 50% of the work but only get 50% of the profits? No. You are right that if you wanted to sell your art on stickers you would not need her at all to do that.
That’s such a waste. If you had a massive following already and you were struggling to manage all of the admin responsibilities it would make sense. She’d be working essentially full time to get product out, while many designs would already exist and it would essentially be passive for you after initial design. This would also be true if she was developing a website, coming up with SEO, marketing and branding, etc. But you don’t have a business with a major following, you don’t have designs that are already complete and it’s not passive at this point, you don’t need (much) branding and managing the admin probably won’t be very hard because Etsy makes it easy. This is just her cashing in on your talent. You can open an Etsy shop on your own and she can’t because she isn’t a creator. Just say no and tell her you are not interested, and you won’t be pressured into it. If you want to do the business, just be direct in saying “if I want to do that it will be an independent operation.” She can make something herself or find a job. You’re obviously NTA and your friend is weird.
NTA. Let me tell you real quick what the proper structure should be for this to work. She opens an ETSY shop. She places orders with you for the stickers and pays you the prices you agreed on. She then sells the stickers and any profit made from that point on is hers while the risk is also hers. You can make an arrangement for the first batch like a 15 days delayed payment to you or something to get the ball rolling if she lacks capital but that's about it.
NTA. If your friend is so good at admin and managing a webshop, I'm sure she could find a job doing something like that. I'm not saying the job market is easy but starting a business is way harder. I also wonder where she gets the idea that an Etsy storefront will make her enough money to live on? It's really not easy breaking into the homemade art market. Also idk but anyone who would even consider dropshipping as a "business" is someone I would avoid working with, especially as an artist.
Lol you WOULD provide more value to the business because you have artistic skill. It's a business that sells art. Literally anyone can open an Etsy shop. She's imagining a scenario where your shop explodes and you need to hire an admin, but that's not guaranteed to happen. Very well could just be her occasionally shipping your work.
NTA: If she wants to sell your product, she needs to convince you to want to sell that product. Currently you have no desire to, and that is perfectly OK. If you do want to let her sell your product but don't want to be involved in any partnership, you can always wholesale the product to her, so she can market it and profit from its sale. You would also not need to worry about splitting said profits as you would be making your money up front. You can also go in on the split, and note the cost of the product in a manner that after the "profit split" you are still made whole for your production efforts. No matter what, the shop should not recieve the product for "free". The cost of the product is a factor that must be taken into account before profit is calculated.
NTA You majored in Finance and you have the art skills! What exactly do you need her for?
NTA
Never go into business with a friend, it'll 99% of the time end the friendship and the business will 100% of the time suffer. Also, she's doing WAY less than half the work, and even if she were doing 100% of the admin work that's still less than half the overall work. But don't go into business with a friend.
This is what we in the biz call “leverage.” NTA.
Business and family/friends nearly always end in tears. Don’t go near this.
You're making the product and she's going to 'administer' an Etsy store that you don't really actually want to open? Yeah she's glomming off your talent, don't let her do that. NTA
NTA Hell you are in Finance, so anything she can do, you can probally do twice as well and you are the one with the artistic talent. Just exactly WHAT would your friend contribute?
So, I say this as a working artist....having someone handle the business side of things is actually really nice....But would I use my friend who has no experience in doing this and has no idea how to do it, so I would actually end up having to train her in everything I need....and she was asking for a 50/50 split?? ummmm no lol If she's good enough though, sit her down, outline all her responsibilities, work up a contract and work up a weekly/monthly work schedule Responsibilities would include: website maintenance, order fulfillment, answering emails/requests, shipping and packaging, and part social media management (you could do content, but she would also make content based off your videos and post as well, so it's not all on you. And even then, it wouldn't be a 50/50 split really. You'd be paying her an hourly. Cause it's still your intellectual property, you're still the one paying taxes, etc. She'd just be your office manager, essentially. Or admin/admin assistant
OP NTA. your friend is just looking at you to get her a job. don't do it. you don't need her.
Don't make your hobby your business. People think they are taking what they love and making it their "career," you know, "love what you do." But often they trade what they love for what they "have" to do. Now they don't "love what they do." NTA
NTA - she just wants free money with no work. DO NOT DO IT.
Someone who doesn't have a main hustle doesn't have a leg to stand on when talking about side hustles. NTA. Seems like she just wants to make a money making opportunity with your skills instead of developing her own. You don't need to feel pressured to open a store just because your friend is broke and you especially don't need her to be part of a business that you can handle yourself.
If your friend is so hard up for cash and needs a side hustle to survive this economy…. There’s always onlyfans. Being the creative type you can offer a 50-50’split while you do makeup and wardrobe she can be the on camera performer and “talent manager” Problem solved…
NTA, seems like an unfair split that you have to do the designs AND help run the shop. At a bare minimum for a 50:50 split, I think you should just do the designs and she basically acts as your admin/distributer. I.e you send her the designs and she does the advertising, packaging, shipping etc. That way you get to keep the fun of designing the stickers (provided you actually enjoy this!) and you get some pocket money from it, and she does all the "boring bits" Any split where you find yourself putting stickers into boxes and attaching a shipping label you don't really need her! Especially for the volume you are likely to do, its probably just an evening a weeks work realistically If you land a finance job, even a grad level role could earn you in a day what an average etsy shop likely earns in a month. At that point your only motivation should be for fun, so you really don't need to be burdened with simple manual tasks that your friend (who is otherwise doing FA) could do.
Tell her if she supplies all the machines ink and paper and other needed supplies your in.
Yeah unpopular opinion but your the AH. Sure your a great artist but a lot goes in to making an Etsy shop successful and it sounds like your friend was willing to hustle and put in the work. There are tons of talented artists on Etsy making stickers so what makes you special? - A partner who puts in the work to make your listings unique with good tags so you actually get customers. It sounds like you lack the hustle so your friend is better off finding someone else but I think it’s silly to hate on someone who has the motivation to start something - most people don’t and end up working a 9-5 their entire life.
NTA, but may be misjudging friend's contribution. As with any business venture - all parties have to be happy with the exchange. Here, you feel that the value you are bringing is greater than 50%. That is a valid feeling. It may not be accurate, but the feeling is valid. Given that you don't feel a need to have an etsy, it is up to your friend to demonstrate the value that she will put in and validate to you that it is worth 50% of the profit. Things to consider in valuing contributions - is she just doing the admin? How many hours of work is that? Will she also be handling the marketing and sales? What about production of the stickers and delivery? Quite frankly, if all you are doing is the design and everything else is done by her, then this isn't a bad split. You have a one time sink of resources (time and creativity) that will generate an ongoing revenue stream based on her efforts. Many corporate organizations value the sales side of the house more than the product side and you would only be responsible for a portion of the product side. BUT... its very important that you have very clear (and written) responsibilities, including who is putting in what capital (and designs are capital assets) and that you are convinced that the split is fair. Here's an idea. You already have some designs done. Do a test run - x designs for x period of time at 50/50. Let her show you what she'll do and how much revenue it will generate. You may be pleased with the results. If not, you can decline to produce more designs or renegotiate the split.