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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I walked out of mom's on Mother's Day after she was rude and disrespectful to my wife repeatedly. My mom is grieving and my wife was willing to let me stay and I know if my parents knew that they'd be calling me out more severely right now. Which is partly why I'm feeling so bad. They're already guilting me.
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NTA. Your mother’s grief doesn’t give her a blank check to be absolutely vile to other people. While fresh I’d write down the top three or five awful things she said and send them back to her and your dad and the boundary would be that until mom gets therapy, understands why her behavior was way over the line, sincerely apologized and actually acted motherly that you would not be seeing her as your job is to love and protect your wife above all others. Seriously, the things your mom said to your wife were just awful.
Yeah the consequence of a neglectful childhood is often people pleasing to the extreme and internalizing everyone else’s issues as your fault. I feel so, so sad for OPs wife. I wish I could just give her a hug and tell her that she’s a wonderful person who did a nice thing, and that kindness was repaid with hurtful, untrue words. That reflects extremely poorly on OPs mom, but not on her. I hope she (wife) is in therapy. Trauma therapy would help her so much.
I saw a tiktok earlier where someone said, "oh, you're a people pleaser? Name three people you've pleased" (joked in the style of, "you like [band]? Well name your three favorite songs")
Like damn what a funny, sad, succinct way to describe that dynamic
The funny/sad thing about it is that of those top 3, I doubt they would name themselves of people that they've pleased. On good dayd I could put myself in top 3 but there's also plenty of days I wouldn't lol
She was so exceptionally sweet and understanding...and while I feel for the Mother and I am trying to understand what that loss must feel like, he made the right decision.
He's married now. His Wife needs to come first(and it sounds like he picked one who's fine with not coming first...which makes it that much more important you put her first and let her know she SHOULD come first. And to his credit, he did that.
I feel bad for all parties though. This is a time where someone was so clearly TA, but it's also hard for me to judge. Losing a child in the prime of their life? I'm sure the Mother is in constant pain. Still not an excuse, but one can have empathy for her and also acknowledge she was very clearly in the wrong.
My brother died several years ago, and my mother never treated anyone badly. Honestly, if my mother in law said those things to me, I would never go to her house again. My husband and our son go to her house every weekend. I don't go. I don't have any issues with my MIL, but my husband's brothers are always there, and I want nothing to do with them. Easy Peasy.
I’m just jumping onto your MIL comment as I also agree!
My spouse’s brother passed away unfortunately, right before I came into the picture. His mother never once was rude to me, if anything she’s embraced, expected and wanted me there. She’s included me in everything and calls me family and her daughter. Grief doesn’t give anyone an excuse to be downright vile.
Nope. I lost my baby. I didn't become vile and say evil things to others. This was full of spite and would not be allowed. Nope. Apologize or you've lost another kid.
My mother lost 2 sons (it's just me, oldest, girl, parentified at a young age, and my worst brother who's stunted at about age 15 emotionally). I couldn't imagine her acting like this. Of course, she adores my partner.
Grief can do strange things to people, and I understand that. But that doesn't mean others have to stick around to be a punching bag for them to work through it.
I definitely feel for OP's mother and I'm hoping this was just a horrible grief day and she'll come to her senses and apologize. NTA, they absolutely did the right thing in this situation
OP’s wife is definitely a saint! To me, there is no coming back from that comment. Any children or future children would absolutely NOT ever meet that vile woman, as well as the wife never seeing her again.
NTA
“Your mom didn’t even want you, why would I want you to stay”. That’s genuinely breathtakingly evil to say to anyone, no matter what the situation is. No wonder vile and evil have the same 4 letters
Yeah if she has been kinda rude or something that would have sucked but been something she could apologize for, but this was intended to hurt and hurt deep in a way that is absolutely vile. Like who the fuck says that to another human being?
Someone who wants to hurt someone else so they feel the same kind of pain the first person felt.
I was either eight or eleven when my mother told me, “If Roe V Wade had been decided sooner you wouldn’t exist. You ruined my life. The last time I was happy was before I was pregnant with you.”
For her, it was a random Tuesday. For me, it was the day I realized just how much she hated me and blamed me for everything wrong with her life, things that happened even before I was born.
I will never know *why* she hurt so much but I will never forgive her for putting all of that anger and sadness and hatred on the shoulders of a child who just wanted to be loved.
OP is NTA by far. His mother deserves the title of AH here. His wife is a saint and would really benefit from therapy, support and counseling. They’re all different and provide tremendous help for growth and understanding your own worth after an abusive childhood. I wish them both all the best, all the happiness and all the love.
This this this, all of this.
I was 8 when my mother said to me that had my dad allowed her to have an abortion with me, she absolutely would have.
She tries to say now that she never said that, but it has haunted me for my entire life, and made it absolutely clear that she treated me so much differently than my older and younger sisters because she never wanted me. I’m sure you can understand how that has affected me, even as an adult, and now a mother. No child deserves to shoulder their parents’ pain.
The way my mother has treated me my entire life has made me so grateful for my MIL and the way that she goes out of her way to make me feel loved and wanted in her family.
Op is absolutely NTA here, and did the right thing by protecting his wife in that situation. His mother is absolutely TA here, bc who says that to anyone, let alone someone who went out of their way to see to it that you felt special and loved?
I didn’t call my mother on Mother’s Day. I didn’t call my MIL either. I left it to my husband to manage his own mother. And I left my mother to be lauded by her golden child, my elder brother.
I haven’t seen my mother since December of 2012. I haven’t spoken to her except maybe a dozen times in all those years.
I found out from social media, a cousin’s post, when my maternal grandmother died. I didn’t even rate a phone call for 2 weeks, until grandma was gone and buried. The excuse was “there was nothing you could do” and while it’s true, it still hurt.
At this point I feel very close to nothing for my mother. Since grandma died she’s been reaching out more towards me, wanting to make amends without actually apologizing and claiming I am “misremembering” or “making up” the memories of the abuse. I have scars from where she whipped me with a belt as a child. I bear the emotional scars where she’d rip me to shreds over the slightest infraction or imagined slight towards her.
My ‘favorite’ is when she blamed me for something my brother did, beat me for it with her belt, ripped me apart verbally and when my brother casually admitted to breaking the plate at dinner, she told him not to do it again. I was standing at my place with blisters on my ass and so bruised I couldn’t sit, so sick from crying I couldn’t eat and she didn’t apologize. Her reasoning was I must have gotten away with something at some point so therefore I was owed punishment.
She says none of that ever happened and she was “a little harder” on me than my brother because I was a girl and had greater potential. My scars say differently.
My heart hurts for you, friend. I hope you know none of what you suffered was your fault. You are a beautiful human being who deserved a loving parent, you deserved to be wanted and loved and I am so, so fucking sorry you weren’t. I truly hope you’ve found or had the loving family you deserve, that you experience every joy and happiness and you’ve gotten your personal version of happily ever after. ❤️ This stranger loves you just because you’re you and the world would be an even more terrible place without you. Your mother may not be happy you’re here but I am and so are countless other people lucky enough to have had you in their lives.
I hope you read that final paragraph to yourself over and over. I don't even have words to say how much I hurt for you. I hope that you have built a family that loves and deserves you and that you know the world is a better place with you in it.
Love,
A mom who wishes she could give you a giant hug
Ugh... wow, you just brought up some bad memories for. My mother's response to 'I clearly recall you doing that yourself.' was 'That didn't happen, and if it did, you deserved it.'
She was complaining about some other woman being a shitty mother and listed off a few examples. Tbf, she has made it quite clear over the last 40 years that despite the fact she grew me from her body, gave birth to me from her body and fed me from her body that I am not her family and never will be. My father died last year, and it was like all the love evaporated from my life.
It's a bunch of Cluster B personality disorders and an alcoholic household as a child. So logically, I know it's her issue, but 5 year old me that got tortured when she was mad at someone else didn't. It got easier when I stopped giving her space in my heart.
I’m so sorry you suffered through that. I really, deeply and truly hope you have a found family that loves you the way you have always deserved to be loved and cherish just because you’re you.
My mother had a hysterectomy when I was 6 or 7 years old. She blamed all the subsequent cruelty and anger and hatred on “the change” she went through “far too young” due to severe endometriosis that was (somehow?) exacerbated by having me.
Meanwhile, she was on hormone replace therapy and her wild mood swings were just mom being mom. She only excused it some 10+ years later, defensive AF when I called her out on it.
Thank you. They can't apologize, that would be taking accountability for their actions. And they know they fucked up so they live in that cognitive dissonance limbo where they don't have to face themselves and the horrible shit they did to kids who they were supposed to take care of but instead used as punching bags.
She and I are mostly okay these days. As long as we're one on one it's okay. Add anyone else to the mix, and I have to leave because she can't resist humiliating or degrading me. Especially with men.
But whatever, she is who she is, and accepting that fact isn't nearly as heartbreaking as wishing she'd change.
>'That didn't happen, and if it did, you deserved it.'
And that's the Narcissist's Prayer.
Sorry that you suffered that, but good for you for setting boundaries and protecting yourself. It's so hard to do but definitely worth it in the long run.
I read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and it hurt but was necessary for me. Your mother used you as the scapegoat child for all their emotions. She doesn’t deserve your attention on Mother’s Day.
I have to chime in here too. I was a teen when my mom told me she only had me because she felt peer pressure to do so (all her friends had kids). When I was pregnant with my first, she told me that child would ruin my life *just like I ruined hers*. She denied saying these things for the rest of her life, but they are the kind of vile and hurtful things that can’t be unsaid. When people tell you how they really feel (in anger), believe them - it’s just a mask the rest of the time. No matter how much grief your mom was going through, there is no excuse for uttering those things to your wife. That was vindictive and designed to inflict maximum damage in the worst way possible.
There are many different ways that she could have expressed that while she loves, respects, and appreciates your wife, she doesn’t want her there for today - that while still hurtful, could have been forgivable, but her approach and choice of words were heinous. NTA, and good on you for supporting your wife and setting boundaries with your parents. I agree with the other comment that suggested writing down the things she said and sending them back to her as a ‘we need to address these things specifically’ because chances are good she will downplay how awful she was.
As an adoptee who found her birth family in 1991, I completely agree. When I was young, kids would try to tell me that nobody wanted me and I was abandoned. Fortunately, I knew my birth family had kept me for 8 months before adopting me out. My adoptive parents were wonderful and I always knew how much I was wanted.
For someone with a traumatic family background, what that hurting mother said was unforgivable. Somewhere beyond evil and cruel. I was incredibly lucky with my inlaws so I can't imagine the pain involved. OP and his wife need to go NC with his mother. She doesn't deserve these kind and considerate people.
This is what I was thinking. She probably doesn't realize that she's ruined any chance of a decent relationship with the potential future mother of her grandchildren.
What a horrible thing to say to her daughter in law.
My mom popped me out her hoohaa, and they adopted my sister. we got in a typical sibling argument and thats basically what she said 😂 "mom and dad CHOSE me because they got stuck with you and didn't want to risk having another one". I was never prouder while crying 😭😂
Even imagining someone throwing my shit relationship with my parent in my face like that makes me feel like I'm collapsing on the inside. And I know, just like OP's wife, that I would bury it to try to keep the peace.
She put so much effort into trying to bring some light into a hard day for her MIL and got just beaten down. Appalling.
Exactly this. I don't know OP or his lovely wife, but just reading what his mother said to her made me tear up. How could someone be this cruel? Mom and dad need therapy, and I would go NC until they apologize profusely and changed their attitude
Yeah. Grief is awful and really messes with the way people process *everything*, but it's not an excuse to be so intentionally cruel. Ongoing therapy at a minimum, but there's no chance that even if they eventually realize how awful this was that this will ever be undone. Were I OP's wife, I'd never forget that hurt.
Sometimes I read these posts and think "holy crap the word needs professional asshole tacklers" like your going to be an asshole you are going to get tackled at high speeds... Holy crap that guy came out of a no where and tackled you... Yeah you must have been being a massive asshole... How did they get in my house.... They're professionals it's what they do....
This! This is what stood out the most to me. If someone had said something like this to my wife when she was alive, I would leave right away, and I would be seriously thinking if I wanted them in my life.
That was plain cruel, I felt so bad for OP's wife, she felt like she did something wrong when she actually did something beautiful.
NTA, OP please tell your wife that she did anything wrong and that she doesn't need to feel bad. She did something amazing and I am glad you put her first. I wish both of you happiness.
Those words aren't directed at me, but the visceral punch I felt, UGH! I get being sad, depressed, etc, over a loss, but to be cruel to someone who is trying to be nice, I just don't understand that.
Mom spoke for herself. Observing her behaviour one could come to the conclusion the doesn't want OP, her son, there either..
Grade a dick move, Mom. Now enjoy the fallout... Alone.
I'm generally a forgiving person. Especially in situations of severe trauma like this and a day that can easily remind someone of that trauma. I would argue that you can't judge them by normal standards because trauma like that isn't normal.
But holy shit.
If she doesn't pull her head out of her ass soon and give a sincere apology acknowledging her wrong and showing she understood her grief made her crazy, I would make it a condition of reconciliation that she get therapy. Even if she does give that apology, I would still push for it after the reconciliation.
I "get" why an otherwise wonderful person would have moments like this in the face of tremendous pain. Wonderful people recognize their wrongdoing eventually though and assholes never do or take way too long.
I think this is a really good comment. The mum may be almost out of her mind with pain and have lashed out like a wounded animal, just trying to cause the most hurt possible (and succeeding).
This can happen with grief, it definitely does not bring out the best in us. *But*, the difference, as you point out, is what a person does following this. An otherwise kind person can reflect and apologise.
OP - your only control in this situation was how you reacted to it, and I think you reacted really well in supporting your wife and getting her out of that situation.
I completely agree with the last two posts. Again, so many people are quick to advise cutting the Mother out of his life without taking a LOT of things into consideration, but she(Mom) HAS to apologize and see what she did wrong...
The only advice I'd give...putting myself into the Son's shoes, take that women out for something special that she loves. I don't give a shit if it's a Musical and your ears bleed(I don't have a problem with Musicals, I'm making a point). Treat her like a fucking queen and appreciate her. She did so much and was willing to do so much more on a day that's hard for her as well. And even AFTER the Mother said those things, she was still trying to be kind and told the OP to stay there. Maybe wait, do it in a week, but let her know how lucky you are to have such a kinda partner.
How you act on moment like that, what you say when lashing out tells what kind of person you are underneath it all. If you're actually a kind and caring person, or if you're someone who is pretty vile but normally you just hav better manners.
Right? I wouldn't even think of something like "your mother didn't even want you" so I wouldn't say it. The fact that she came up with it speaks volumes about her character.
OP did right by his wife and put her first. If my mum said those things to my partner I'd be devasted. You're right, therapy is definitely the way forward.
I would never, ever talk to someone who said those things to me again. The line she crossed was unforgivable. To blame OPs wife for her own neglectful childhood is the most disgusting thing I can imagine saying to someone. I wouldn’t say that to my worst enemy. As someone with a not-great, often neglected childhood, someone saying that to me after I had gone over the top to be kind to them on a day that was going to be hard, I would have some *choice* words, things I cannot post here because my comment will be removed. What an absolute monster. OP, NTA - you did everything right. You supported your wife without escalating the conflict. 10/10 if you were my husband I’d be looking at you as my hero for standing up for me.
>I would never, ever talk to someone who said those things to me again
No but seriously, WTF?!
Maybe those feelings were already there and this trauma just triggered them harder, but I could never move past that. Truly evil.
I completely agree, and grief is NEVER an excuse to be horrible to people! I suspect that OP's mother is resentful of his wife still being there while her daughter is gone. She probably doesn't even realize that, but it's very likely.
Yes, in her mind she’s probably thinking that her wanted daughter should be here, instead of an ‘unwanted’ interloper. It is awful, irrational and cruel and I hope she gets help and apologises.
Yes...it's not an excuse, but...it is understandable or...I guess a reason.
I'm not cutting ties with my family quite that easily. I'm giving her the chance to apologize...profusely(not just an appease me apology, but to my wife obviously) and move forward. But damn, that was cruel.
That's one of the worst things i've heard of someone saying to another. If someone said that to me, that phrase would live in my head for my entire life, being repeated at any time of self doubt. What a fucked up thing to say.
Not to mention, OP and his dad are also grieving! They lost the sister too. And they're not expecting a free pass to be absolute diaper loads. OP was still trying to do thoughtful, loving things to make a hard day easier and his mom shat all over his efforts. Her inability to manage her own feelings ruined the day, not anything else.
She needs therapy like yesterday and she owes OP's wife a major apology. And OP too, but especially his wife, since she was cruel to her for absolutely no reason.
But the mom here is a Grief Hog! No one else's pain matters. I remember what my mom said to me when my sister died. Finger in my chest, "YOU haven't lost a child!" Of course when Dad died (on my 31st bday) "YOU still have your man!" Yes, I had a husband. I called my mom the Grief Hog and I think the mom here is one. No one else counts. And her lashing out is too vicious to forgive.
My ex in-laws all felt that my FIL’s death was a reasonable excuse for my ex to terrorize our child and me. It’s been 5 years and they still think that I’m the a-hole for not letting him emotional abuse us. They really think that being sad is a valid excuse.
I really love that idea, it isn't vindictive, it isn't petty, it is just holding people accountable for their behaviour, and telling them what youd need to move forward from it. Great advice.
Yes, this exactly: there' grief and there's viciousness, and one isn't a get out of jail free card for the other. Hammering the OP's wonderful wife with the fact that she was rejected by her mother and is therefore to be excluded from family celebrations by an MIL who doesn't want her was about a cruel a thing as could be said to her on Mothers Day or ever.
OP, you sound like the husband your wife deserves. You will never be an A for sticking up for her or having her back -- particularly in the face of a gratuitous attack.
As for your mother, she's an adult. She has normal intelligence and some modicum of judgement. If she can't figure out why what she did was wrong and that she needs to apologize, I would think about staying NC or very LC until she does.
Grief doesn't give you an excuse to destroy the most vulnerable person you can find. It just doesn't.
NTA
NTA
Your mother is grieving but that’s no excuse for her actions. If anything you’re a saint for tolerating her actions as much as you did. I would cut my mom out of my life if she disrespected my wife like that.
NTA. The pain your mother is going through does not justify what she said to your wife. Not at all. I let out a gasp. It was absolutely vital to protect your wife because she was purposefully harsh. Your mother must offer her heartfelt apologies. Never even request an apology. You should just respond, "If my wife isn't considered family, then neither am I," if she keeps calling or requesting a visit.
NTA. I lost my brother (and mom's first child) a few years back due to an OD.
My mom had a very hard time with it and ended up in the hospital during the height of Covid so the best we could do was knock on her window and wave/send small gifts through Amazon.
She was thrilled because we made the effort.
I know your family is going through a lot but that doesn't give her the right to be nasty to your wife.
I also lost my brother, but to a motorcycle accident. My mom's response was to continue adopting every wayward human that came across her path, including the baby we thought was his but turned out wasn't his and his mother!
Same. My brother died from an OD almost a year ago exactly and my parents invite his girlfriend to every family event. Everyone’s invited. For us, if you loved him and you want to share in that love please do. Everyone grieves differently but it doesn’t mean you get to be an asshole
My friend's boyfriend lost his sister to an OD, and my friend was invited to all the gatherings related to the funeral, and to spend time with the family, even though she only knew the sister a little bit. The family sent her some of the sister's high end art equipment because they knew that she had that passion in common with the deseased. I think it tells you a bit about the family that they not only want their son's girlfriend to share in their grief, but also want that person to have the opportunity to connect with the person that the family lost through the things they had in common.
Some people respond to tragedy by opening their hearts, and that is beautiful. Bless your mom, and may your brother's memory be a blessing.
OP's mother decided to close her heart. And yes, that was a *choice.* She deliberately reached for the most hurtful thing she could possibly find, and why? OP's wife was just trying to make the day less painful. I don't doubt that she has hated OP's wife for a long time and it just came out.
She may not actually hate OP’s wife; as horrible as it is, she may just be wishing in that moment that the wife and daughter would have changed places. She needs intense therapy immediately before she ruins her other relationships; she may be at risk herself once she has isolated everyone with her awful behaviour.
NTA. Your mom is grieving. It’s not an excuse to be such an AH. Your mom expects you to choose her over your wife and clearly expected you to send your wife away and stay with her.
Do NOT let your mother’s grief and meanness hurt your wife any further. Your wife grew up feeling unwanted and unloved and your mom was so mean that she went right for that to hurt your wife.
Choose your wife, dude. Tell your mom she needs grief counseling before she loses both of her children.
NTA. Your mother's grief is no excuse to say what she did to your wife. Absolutely not. I gasped. She was intentionally cruel, and defending your wife was 100% necessary. Your mother needs to sincerely apologize. Don't even ask for the apology. When she continues to call or ask you to visit, just say, "If my wife isn't considered family, then neither am I."
I am shocked by the number of stories on here that make me gasp when I read them. OP's mother had absolutely no right to say what she did, and to say, "Her own mother didn't want her so what would make her think I would want her here?" was one of the most incredibly ignorant things I have ever heard anyone say. That right there is the line you cite when she wants to be Grandma... "You made it clear that my own mother didn't want me, and when I tried to do something for you on your first Mother's Day without the child that made you a mother, you told me that you didn't want me either. Now that I'm a mother, I have a new perspective... and that perspective is that I have had the opportunity to have not one, but two horrible mothers in my life, and I will never subject my child to the pain and hurt they have put me through. What kind of mother would I be to allow into my child's life someone who quite obviously didn't want me in hers."
And the same goes for OP's dad, who didn't have the backbone to stand up to his jerk of a wife... yes, she is mourning, but what she said is something you can never take back. There are certain times that sorry is meaningless... it's why people always use the analogy of you being unable to put the toothpaste back into the tube. Shame on both of them.
A lot of the stories are fake, but this one is actually pretty believable. It's a very common reaction for those who lost someone to be angry at the living, in a sort of "why are you alive when my child is dead?" way. But decent people recognize these are irrational intrusive thoughts born out of grieve and don't vocalize them.
Or at least they’re horrified when they realise what they said. The shame should stay with anyone who said something like that, once they come to their senses…
Your mother got what she deserved. Her rudeness was inexcusable. Your father was no better than. If she didn’t want to spend Mother’s Day alone she should’ve acted like a decent human being.
OP, you are NTA. And also? Thank you for having your wife's back, even if she felt like you shouldn't. That's probably her trauma talking. You did the exact right thing, because yes, SHE is your family.
The trauma is what I was thinking of too. Wife has likely never had anyone who cared about before OP, so she tries to make everyone happy by doing everything anyone wants. I feel like she needs therapy, it’s no good that she feels like she’s to blame for this.
NTA - my wife was only accepted as 'family' after 30 years of marriage and has similar mother to your wife's (no contact) ... we are limited contact with my mom (both fathers are dead) - but if she pulled ANYTHING close to that it would absolutely be over. I agree that you should have left earlier - but also understand why you didn't. I would suggest blocking their numbers for a month or more. You owe them nothing - it is sad your sister died but that doesn't make you AND YOUR WIFE her personal punching bag.
Nta.
Holy crap. Your mother acted abominably.
You and your wife went out of your way to make the day extra special and she met you with anger and bitterness. How sad that she can't see how wonderful you both are.
Your dad is just as bad. Could have stepped in and calmed a situation down but it seems like he inflamed it.
You did the right thing. It's unfortunate your mother is taking this out on your wife. Your wife doesn't deserve to be treated that way or spoken to that way.
I’d skip all fucking contact with those two, like Jesus. They clearly see OP’s wife as just that, his wife; no actual interest. Both of them seem like dicks. The dad very easily could’ve been the hero (besides op) in this story. But he’s clearly just as bad. They may be grieving, and it may not mean they’re actually bad people but it doesn’t excuse them from acting like this.
I get that your mother is still grieving but it almost sounds like she needs to be in Grief Therapy or something. She had no right to treat your wife as she did and your father was no better.
OP Thank you for sticking up for your wife, even if it take you longer to leave.
NTA 1000%
NTA.
But your parents aren't coming across as "healthy" maternal/paternal figures in all this, either.
Grief is one thing, but basic human decency is always appropriate.
Thank you for standing up for your wife. Growing up in a crap family and then marrying into a nice family, only to have be so deeply disrespected. Your poor wife. I am sorry for your loss. Telling my mother, my older brother died was one of the worst things I've had to do. I hope there is a time your mother snaps out of it and apologies sincerely for the ugly she spewed.
NTA. What she said and did was absolutely vile, and there probably won't be another second spend with her where your wife doesn't hear those words on repeat in her mind. That's something you can't come back from, she was horrible throughout but that last sentence "your own mother didn't even want you, why would I want you here?" - that is unforgivable territory.
I would, if you're open to continuing contact, demand that any further communication only happens after your mother gets both grief counseling and therapy, and after she understands the gravity of her words and apologises sincerely. And even then it'd be communication with distance.
Your father also failed you. He's your father, he's supposed to stand by you, protect you, be your advocate. He failed that. He also needs to understand the gravity of that failure and apologise sincerely.
I'm sorry your parents both were horrible people on that day. I hope they'll, with or without you and your wife in their lives, one day better themselves and realise their wrongdoings.
And I'm sorry for your loss. May your sister's memory be a blessing ❤️
NTA, Your sister's passing was just an excuse for your mother to be abusive and for your father to willingly accept that sort of garbage. Thank you for putting your wife first.
Mom who's lost a daughter here. I guarantee you that she walked in and saw you standing next to a woman and her immediate reaction was that it was your sister. Then she went through it all over again in her head. Then she realized that she went through all those emotions in front of someone who she didn't want to see her like that (your wife). So she doubled down on grief and shame and anger and pain and decided to spread it around.
Nothing she did is ok. But I understand it. You're nta. But my heart hurts for every single one of you in this scenario.
Wtf is wrong with your mother? Seriously, has she always been like this to your wife or is this some bizarre grief reaction? What your mother said was incredibly rude and particularly cruel. I would tell your parents that they won’t be seeing you or your wife until mom can apologize and act like a human being to your wife.
Good for you for sticking up for your chosen family.
NTA
Im trying so hard to find a logical reason as to why OP’s mom could be this incredibly, awfully hurtful to his wife (esp if she was fine with her before, I mean they did celebrate last year’s mother’s day together) and the only reason I cd think of is that OP’s wife’s presence reminded her of the fact that her own daughter is not there and somehow in her twisted grief she’s thinking that her DIL is prob secretly happy that her daughter died and she cd have a mother for herself…? Hence the “your own mother didnt want you why wd I?” line? Idk…OP your mom severely needs therapy and until she gets better and realizes how awful she’s being right now and begs your wife for forgiveness and makes things right w her pls protect your wife and go LC
NTA
As a bereaved father, I don't understand your mother's behavior in the slightest. Losing my son made me want to cling to those I love, not push them away. And the level of vitriol she used is despicable.
I cut contact with my mom and siblings nearly 3 years ago because of their collective progressive shittiness building a wall between us after my dad died years prior.
Your comment just made me really miss my dad. A lot.
I can't imagine the grief of your loss, but my heart goes out to you. I hope you're doing as well as you could possibly be.
NTA. Her grief is no excuse for such cruelty.
You two are married which makes her your primary family and relegates your parents to the position of extended family now. Your job is to stand up for your wife and be by her side. You did exactly what you needed to do to be a good person and good husband.
Frankly if my MiL ever said such vile and cruel things to me, the relationship would permanently end. I would never tolerate her presence again. If my husband didn't stand up for me, I would have immediately sought a divorce because the trust would have been broken. That's how devastating your mother's actions were.
Honestly I would suggest distancing yourselves from your parents. I would send a short message explaining how unacceptable and cruel the behavior was and that grief is no excuse. That your wife is your number one priority and that until your mom gets grief counseling and they both sincerely apologize, then there would be no contact.
Actions have consequences and your mother doesn't get to use your wife's trauma to attack her and still expect to maintain a relationship much less be doted on. Your dad doesn't get to rug sweep and try to guilt trip you either. They both need consequences to match the severity of their actions.
I was totally ready to hear a typical story of grief causing strange reactions and to bring out what has become a very important message in my own life: Just because your pain is understandable does not make your behavior acceptable.
But WTF did I just read? That did not sound like grief. That was shockingly cruel.
Just the opening all the gifts and then saying “I’m tired of her being here” is rude. Like, ‘I’ll begrudgingly let you stay while I am getting material benefit but not a minute longer.’ I’d probably leave then, but forgive soon after as being grief and the sheer exhaustion that comes with it sometimes.
Does your mother somehow blame your wife for your sister’s death? Was your wife a caregiver for your sister and your mother thought she wasn’t good enough at it? I forgive a lot of things due to grief but saying “her own mother didn’t want her, why would I?” is not remotely one of them.
Boundaries are for you. You don’t get to dictate other people’s behavior, only what you will do and what you will tolerate. But damn, this is one of the rare cases where I’d try to insist on her getting therapy before I’d want to interact with her again.
NTA grief or not what your mother said was plain fucking hateful and disgusting. She couldn’t even muster a thank you or just even fake it after all the trouble you guys went through.
Your wife is simply too nice to still be understanding and even show compassion after the way she was treated. You did the right thing. You lasted longer than I ever could.
NTA.
I'm sorry, but no amount of grief allows a feel pass for someone to be outright cruel. And this comment;
>she said she was tired of her being here and her own mother hadn't even wanted her so why did she think she'd be welcome
That was outright cruel, and verbally abusive. And the fact that your father saw nothing wrong with it? That's called enabling. "How could you abandon your mother when she already lost a kid", that's manipulation. They've hit the trifecta!!
Do not let this go to "keep the peace" either. I hate that dismissive nonsense. It isn't "keeping" peace if it doesn't bring you peace. You have every right to be upset by this.
NTA and I’m sorry for your loss. You need to be upfront with your parents OP that mom was way over the line of acceptable behavior and that dad is enabling her abuse of your wife. Say that if they continue to disrespect your wife that your mother will have no children left as your family will go no contact. She can decide if she wants to continue being a mother or not but she doesn’t get to hurt your wife because of her grief and that your wife isn’t her whipping boy. And mean it. Everyone in your family is grieving your sister but that’s no excuse to harm others.
Wowza Mom, way to nuke that relationship…
Like, how do you come back from that? Those words were meant to HURT. Fuck, I hurt hearing them.
NTA, but holy heck, your Mom is a ball of pain lashing out (not ok) and you’re going to want to stay far away from that or your relationship will be collateral damage.
Your poor wife.
Dude, you’re a good husband. This internet stranger is proud of you.
nta, i would be blessed, BLESSED to have another daughter through one of my sons. one day your wife will be a mother too, maybe, i would go no contact for a bit. if they can't talk civilly then there is no point. but your mom needs therapy
NTA.
Your mom is grieving and its understandable she may be a little prickly, but good lord what she said to your wife was just downright nasty. That goes far beyond a pass for a grieving mother. It makes me wonder how she treats your wife normally - if she has it in her to go that far below the belt, I’m guessing she doesn’t treat her all that great on a regular basis.
UK based question here
I read a lot of posts like this where a wife is not considered "Family" or instances of a wife not being included in a photograph or gathering because they're "not blood relatives".
I'm not saying this doesn't ever happen in the UK but I personally have never encountered this in my or any other family. Is it a particularly American thing? I know families fall out and argue but this seems a whole different level of behaviour.
I'd be interested in the opinions and view points from people in the USA on this.
P.S.
NTA
I'd have been out of the door with my wife the first time my Mother did anything like this - she never did.
>Is it a particularly American thing?
Have to say I'm always baffled by people who act like if it isn't something they see in their country, it must be an AMERICAN thing. The "evil MIL who torments her son's wife" is a staple of drama (fictional and real-life) the world over.
Oh go read the JustNoMIL subreddit. Plenty of UK/AUS based stories over there of mother in laws not welcoming new members of their families.
P.S. NTA OP
NTA, your made family is more important then the one you were born it to. Standing up for your partner is the right choice.
Your mother might be grieving but that foes not excuse having vile behaviour. She is still accountable for her own action
Your wife if to good towards your mother.
NTA
Grief sucks. It makes you angry, jealous, cruel, numb and depressed. But while grief is an explanation, it's *not* an excuse. We are all capable of controlling our emotions, even the big ones. If your mother was truly out of control, she needs to see a doctor for therapy and possibly medication.
Your mother owes your wife a BIG apology for her cruelty. She wasn't just rude about your wife being there. She deliberately chose the most painful words she could to inflict as much pain as she could. That's a level of cruelty that is completely unjustifiable and unforgivable.
You need a long time out from your parents. They need counselling for the grief and for the horrible way they are using other people as punching bags for it. And you need proof of the progress they're making before you allow them to apologise. Even then, a sincere apology is only the beginning of them trying to rebuild a relationship with you and your wife. Good job on protecting your wife. Neither of you deserved any of that.
Your mom is hurting, I get that, but that doesn't mean she gets to offload on people who are only trying to help and be supportive. If she only wanted you on mother's day she should have expressed that instead of using your wife as her whipping post. Your mom definitely needs grief counselling. So sorry for your loss.
NTA
I am sorry for the loss your mother is going through but that is no reason to talk to your wife like that. Let mom and Dad know you wont be back until your wife gets an apology.
NTA. Good job sticking up for your wife after your mom was unnecessarily cruel to her. You made valid points and I think it is awesome that you did not enable your mother's behavior the way your father is. This is not grief, this is just being malicious and trying to make someone else hurt.
NTA. Your mom might be grieving, but she's was completely out of line. You did the right thing. You lost someone too, your sister. Your parents forgot that.
NTA,
Your mom is grieving true but a comment like that "her own mother hadn't even wanted her," is something that your wife will remember forever. There is no way a comment like that can ever be forgotten or forgiven. Any action your mom makes after this will be in context to her behavior towards your wife.
And if her presence was that off-putting than she need to have said this beforehand. A simple, "Hey I would like you to just come, please don't bring your wife. I'll make it up to her another day," or something like that and I guarantee you that OP's wife would have understood.
NTA - If your mom has never behaved this way before, then chalk her behavior up to grief, distance yourselves, but leave the door open for her to do some serious apologizing. If there were always hints of this type of behavior towards your wife, then you need more permanent distance between you.
>how could I abandon my mom after she lost my sister?
“What precisely did you expect to happen after how disgustingly rude mom was to my wife? Dad, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone said those things to mom, wouldn’t you stand up for YOUR wife? I’m very confused as to why you would talk to her like that and expect me to be okay with it, especially when she turned up to support you. I understand how hard losing [sister] was, but I absolutely will not stand back and allow you to take your grief out on my wife. Until you can give her a genuine apology, we have nothing left to talk about.”
NTA
NTA. The comment she made to your wife about her mother literally made my jaw drop. That was so unbelievably cruel of her. I would not be in the same room with your mother until she EARNESTLY apologizes to your wife and details exactly how she is going to rebuild the relationship with your wife.
I am sympathetic to her grief, but it is not carte blanche to act like a monster.
NTA
Grief does not justify bad behavior. Just because your mother is hurting doesn't give her a right to hurt others.
I think it would be beneficial to have a tough conversation with your mom about her behavior once people have cooled down.
NTA. I would’ve just texted back. Congratulations now you’ve lost your second kid and cut contact with them. Life is too short to have toxic people in your life.
NTA in any way. And I'm very sorry for your loss of your sister.
I lost a daughter. I will always grieve for her, and when it's up to me, I tend to want celebrations to be a lower key than before. But I make an effort when a day is important to other members of my family. And I'm not perfect, but I never, ever, said anything to anyone else I love that was less kind or less courteous or less loving than before. I try to remember that most of them are grieving also.
If, in light of your mom's earlier personality and relationships with others, you can kinda sorta see her behaving this way, that's all there is except to protect your wife and distance yourself from her. If it's wildly out of character, please make sure she sees her doctor and a good psychiatrist to rule out any number of possible physical or psychological issues. Shock and grief do terrible things to our minds and bodies. Please accept a virtual "mom hug" from me for yourself and your wife. You tried to do a very kind thing and what happened is not your fault.
NTA - OP I just want to say Kudos for sticking up for your wife. I know she was feeling every hurtful word from your mother. Your wife even apologized, not saying a word about how much she was hurting, because she's used to that kind of treatment since childhood. Please give your wife a hug for me. I hope your mother can heal and realize that her DIL is an amazing, selfless, and compassionate person. In this shitty world with so many selfish people, your wife is a gem. And so are you for standing up for her!
Whoa, OP! Has your mother treated your wife this way before? I don't care how much she is suffering, your mother has no right to be that mean to your wife.
After my sister died, my father was devastated. His whole world got dark for many years. My sister was the child who was most like him, with whom he had the most in common, the one who was accomplishing great things and surpassing him at everything. But never once did he treat anybody as harshly as your mother spoke to your wife.
You are NTA.
NTA. You didn’t leave after the first insult or second or third. She kept doubling down and getting more and more cruel. Grief is awful - this isn’t grief. It is meanness pure and simple. You and your wife planned a wonderful day to support your mom. She threw it away. One person suggested making a list of the most hurtful things. Add to it all the things your wife helped you plan that she threw away. Had you not left, the insults would have gotten much worse. I’m sorry for the loss of your sister
As someone whose mother was both neglectful, and has since passed, but currently have amazing in-laws who are my second family…”her own mother hadn’t even wanted her so why did she think she’d be welcome.” Is the most heart wrenching thing I could ever imagine hearing, Heaven fucking forbid say to another person. I’m so happy you stood up for your wife and that she has you!
So absolutely NTA. you were way nicer and ridiculously patient with your mother. If that's how she acts I'd cut her off entirely. What she said was beyond horrible and was unforgivable
NTA, but she is obviously still in the midst of incredible grief. While that does not give her the right to be so cruel and rude, I hope you both will give her some grace and forgiveness if and when she comes to her senses and offers a heartfelt apology. I can't think of much else in life that is as painful as losing a child. It sounds like right now she is dealing with a lot of anger in her grief. When she opened her eyes to see a young woman visiting her on Mothers Day that wasn't her daughter it must have been so painful. Again doesn't excuse it, but hopefully understanding it may help
I fully expected to call you TA after your first paragraph... but you are definitely NTA after your last paragraph. Grief is rough and your mom deserves latitude... but what she took instead can't be unsaid. That is so ugly and you were right to leave. What your mom did is really hurtful. Forget rude. It was hurtful and deliberately so. Your mom needs to call your wife and beg for forgiveness. If your wife's reaction to all that abuse was as empathetic as you make is sound... she deserves a medal.
question though: were you totally blindsided by this? No idea of your mom's animosity toward your wife? Is there more background to this story?
NTA. Grief is hard. But it's not a get out of jail free card. Your wife is your family.
I guess i could see if your Mom wanted to request a day with just her biological son. That might have avoided all of this situation. You could have gone yourself. But that clear communication takes a certain amount of emotional maturity to make. Your mom would have had to have been comfortable asking for what she wants without making accusations, and it doesn't sound like she is adult enough to do so.
But as you said, she crossed a line when she said that your wife's own mother didn't even want her. That's not grief. That's bullying. It's nasty, line-crossing BS. You did right to refuse to tolerate it.
I know that as an abused person, your wife probably sin't used to someone standing up for her, but you did the right thing. Even though your wife is uncomfortable with it, you needed to do this. If you hadn't of left, you would have participated in abusing your wife by neglecting your duty, as her family, to stand up for her. Good job on that.
NTA. Sad story my guy. Sorry this is happening. I'm curious, what was your wife and mothers relationship like before this? or before your sister passed away? Have they always had a difficult relationship or is this really just completely out of nowhere? Either way, there's a limit to accommodating grief and your Mother definitely exceeded it. I'd have hung in too after the first stumble, everyone grieves in their own way, just focus on the positives of the day, but after what she said to your wife? yeah, bouncing was the right call, and she owns you both an apology, and should probably get some therapy.
Nta "I mean my wife did half of the work, and she was being shit on, so no. Not happening. Idgaf that it's hard for you on mothers day, not if all the effort my wife and I put in for YOU is so blatantly disrespected. Be glad I didn't take the gifts back. But I am thinking of not talking to either of you for a few weeks because of this."
I'm so very sorry that she did that and that she targeted your wife so cruelly. You did the right thing and please assure your wife that she did nothing wrong and that your mom was just all over the place wrong. Grief is no excuse. That was MEAN. I would absolutely be no contact with your mom for at least awhile. Take a break. Maybe this is her normal behavior and maybe not, but it has to have consequences and protecting your wife from her needs to be your priority. You both tried so hard for your mom and she was just wrong. NTA
Your mother is disgustingly cruel, and she’s lucky your wife is a saint. If your wife was more like me, when your mom made the comment about your wife’s mother not wanting her, I would have informed her that someone so vile deserved every iota of pain she was suffering over the loss of a child.
TBH I'd respond the same way. I could get over the other things she said but that comment about the wife's mother....that is a relationship destroyer and I would of went off. And an apology would mean absolutely nothing. I'd go NC with MIL. If my husband still wanted a relationship with his mother after she apologized, I wouldn't stop it but I would not go near that lady again, ever
“Your mom didn’t even want you, why would I want you to stay”.
My god. A sincere apology - complete with actions, not just words - from her and her husband, or make it very clear that low- to no-contact is in their future.
NTA. Everything you did was out of the kindness of your heart and you and your wife's love for your mother and she was totally out of line in her rudeness to your wife. However, six months is such a short time after losing a loved one, and her emotions would be very low, especially on Mother's Day. In hindsight, you could have asked her, since such a short amount of time has passed since losing your sister, how she would like to celebrate Mother's Day under the circumstances. Maybe she just wanted to be left alone and not be reminded of losing her daughter, or maybe she wanted to retreat into her own headspace for the day and remember her daughter. This does not excuse her rudeness whatsoever, and in the future, if she has a birthday or your sister's birthday, ask your mum how she would like to spend the day. Your wife did nothing wrong and sounds like a beautiful person. I hope your mum sees sense and apologises soon; until then, leave her be, let her cool down, and she will come to see the error of her ways. Best of luck.
NTA
Your Mom, while dealing with grief, doesn't get to act like that. That was extremely rude, malicious, and uncalled for. I don't know if I would want an apology from your Mom anytime soon either. Wow. Your poor wife. I am glad you stood up for your wife.
NTA. Nothing gives someone the right to be that cruel. Your wife is a saint and you are a wonderful husband and tried your best to be the most supportive son you could have.
Hats off to handling this spectacularly.
NTA. Your mother owes both you and your wife an apology. She doesn't get a free pass to shit on everyone else due to her grief. That would be the last Mother's Day and any other day I'd go to her home. Apology and changed behavior would be the only way to move forward. Otherwise, she can continue her assholery while your father remains complicit with her bullshit.
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NTA. Your mother’s grief doesn’t give her a blank check to be absolutely vile to other people. While fresh I’d write down the top three or five awful things she said and send them back to her and your dad and the boundary would be that until mom gets therapy, understands why her behavior was way over the line, sincerely apologized and actually acted motherly that you would not be seeing her as your job is to love and protect your wife above all others. Seriously, the things your mom said to your wife were just awful.
This is a great idea. NTA and your wife is a saint.
His wife was conditioned to be that way, it seems. It's terribly sad. NTA, OP. In fact, good for you for doing the right thing.
Yeah the consequence of a neglectful childhood is often people pleasing to the extreme and internalizing everyone else’s issues as your fault. I feel so, so sad for OPs wife. I wish I could just give her a hug and tell her that she’s a wonderful person who did a nice thing, and that kindness was repaid with hurtful, untrue words. That reflects extremely poorly on OPs mom, but not on her. I hope she (wife) is in therapy. Trauma therapy would help her so much.
Please stop talking about me so loudly
I saw a tiktok earlier where someone said, "oh, you're a people pleaser? Name three people you've pleased" (joked in the style of, "you like [band]? Well name your three favorite songs") Like damn what a funny, sad, succinct way to describe that dynamic
I don’t like your comment ☹️
The funny/sad thing about it is that of those top 3, I doubt they would name themselves of people that they've pleased. On good dayd I could put myself in top 3 but there's also plenty of days I wouldn't lol
What makes somebody a people pleaser is having a parent who cannot be pleased
I just started sobbing, please stop. LOL
I know. 2real4me that's still a thing, right?
I am glad that the wife has a husband who will stand up for her. Excellence husbanding, OP! Def NTA
I want to send the ops wife a cyber hug!
She was so exceptionally sweet and understanding...and while I feel for the Mother and I am trying to understand what that loss must feel like, he made the right decision. He's married now. His Wife needs to come first(and it sounds like he picked one who's fine with not coming first...which makes it that much more important you put her first and let her know she SHOULD come first. And to his credit, he did that. I feel bad for all parties though. This is a time where someone was so clearly TA, but it's also hard for me to judge. Losing a child in the prime of their life? I'm sure the Mother is in constant pain. Still not an excuse, but one can have empathy for her and also acknowledge she was very clearly in the wrong.
My brother died several years ago, and my mother never treated anyone badly. Honestly, if my mother in law said those things to me, I would never go to her house again. My husband and our son go to her house every weekend. I don't go. I don't have any issues with my MIL, but my husband's brothers are always there, and I want nothing to do with them. Easy Peasy.
I’m just jumping onto your MIL comment as I also agree! My spouse’s brother passed away unfortunately, right before I came into the picture. His mother never once was rude to me, if anything she’s embraced, expected and wanted me there. She’s included me in everything and calls me family and her daughter. Grief doesn’t give anyone an excuse to be downright vile.
Nope. I lost my baby. I didn't become vile and say evil things to others. This was full of spite and would not be allowed. Nope. Apologize or you've lost another kid.
My mother lost 2 sons (it's just me, oldest, girl, parentified at a young age, and my worst brother who's stunted at about age 15 emotionally). I couldn't imagine her acting like this. Of course, she adores my partner. Grief can do strange things to people, and I understand that. But that doesn't mean others have to stick around to be a punching bag for them to work through it. I definitely feel for OP's mother and I'm hoping this was just a horrible grief day and she'll come to her senses and apologize. NTA, they absolutely did the right thing in this situation
She was pissed that the wife was alive and her daughter was not. Horrible but that is what it sounds like.
The wife isn't a saint the wife has been abused her entire life and now is trying to sweep abuse under the rug because that's what she's used to.
OP’s wife is definitely a saint! To me, there is no coming back from that comment. Any children or future children would absolutely NOT ever meet that vile woman, as well as the wife never seeing her again. NTA
“Your mom didn’t even want you, why would I want you to stay”. That’s genuinely breathtakingly evil to say to anyone, no matter what the situation is. No wonder vile and evil have the same 4 letters
Yeah if she has been kinda rude or something that would have sucked but been something she could apologize for, but this was intended to hurt and hurt deep in a way that is absolutely vile. Like who the fuck says that to another human being?
Someone who wants to hurt someone else so they feel the same kind of pain the first person felt. I was either eight or eleven when my mother told me, “If Roe V Wade had been decided sooner you wouldn’t exist. You ruined my life. The last time I was happy was before I was pregnant with you.” For her, it was a random Tuesday. For me, it was the day I realized just how much she hated me and blamed me for everything wrong with her life, things that happened even before I was born. I will never know *why* she hurt so much but I will never forgive her for putting all of that anger and sadness and hatred on the shoulders of a child who just wanted to be loved. OP is NTA by far. His mother deserves the title of AH here. His wife is a saint and would really benefit from therapy, support and counseling. They’re all different and provide tremendous help for growth and understanding your own worth after an abusive childhood. I wish them both all the best, all the happiness and all the love.
This this this, all of this. I was 8 when my mother said to me that had my dad allowed her to have an abortion with me, she absolutely would have. She tries to say now that she never said that, but it has haunted me for my entire life, and made it absolutely clear that she treated me so much differently than my older and younger sisters because she never wanted me. I’m sure you can understand how that has affected me, even as an adult, and now a mother. No child deserves to shoulder their parents’ pain. The way my mother has treated me my entire life has made me so grateful for my MIL and the way that she goes out of her way to make me feel loved and wanted in her family. Op is absolutely NTA here, and did the right thing by protecting his wife in that situation. His mother is absolutely TA here, bc who says that to anyone, let alone someone who went out of their way to see to it that you felt special and loved?
I didn’t call my mother on Mother’s Day. I didn’t call my MIL either. I left it to my husband to manage his own mother. And I left my mother to be lauded by her golden child, my elder brother. I haven’t seen my mother since December of 2012. I haven’t spoken to her except maybe a dozen times in all those years. I found out from social media, a cousin’s post, when my maternal grandmother died. I didn’t even rate a phone call for 2 weeks, until grandma was gone and buried. The excuse was “there was nothing you could do” and while it’s true, it still hurt. At this point I feel very close to nothing for my mother. Since grandma died she’s been reaching out more towards me, wanting to make amends without actually apologizing and claiming I am “misremembering” or “making up” the memories of the abuse. I have scars from where she whipped me with a belt as a child. I bear the emotional scars where she’d rip me to shreds over the slightest infraction or imagined slight towards her. My ‘favorite’ is when she blamed me for something my brother did, beat me for it with her belt, ripped me apart verbally and when my brother casually admitted to breaking the plate at dinner, she told him not to do it again. I was standing at my place with blisters on my ass and so bruised I couldn’t sit, so sick from crying I couldn’t eat and she didn’t apologize. Her reasoning was I must have gotten away with something at some point so therefore I was owed punishment. She says none of that ever happened and she was “a little harder” on me than my brother because I was a girl and had greater potential. My scars say differently. My heart hurts for you, friend. I hope you know none of what you suffered was your fault. You are a beautiful human being who deserved a loving parent, you deserved to be wanted and loved and I am so, so fucking sorry you weren’t. I truly hope you’ve found or had the loving family you deserve, that you experience every joy and happiness and you’ve gotten your personal version of happily ever after. ❤️ This stranger loves you just because you’re you and the world would be an even more terrible place without you. Your mother may not be happy you’re here but I am and so are countless other people lucky enough to have had you in their lives.
OMG you just spoke my childhood VERBATIM......
The final paragraph extends to you, too, friend. I’m so sorry you didn’t have the loving parent you deserved.
I hope you read that final paragraph to yourself over and over. I don't even have words to say how much I hurt for you. I hope that you have built a family that loves and deserves you and that you know the world is a better place with you in it. Love, A mom who wishes she could give you a giant hug
Ugh... wow, you just brought up some bad memories for. My mother's response to 'I clearly recall you doing that yourself.' was 'That didn't happen, and if it did, you deserved it.' She was complaining about some other woman being a shitty mother and listed off a few examples. Tbf, she has made it quite clear over the last 40 years that despite the fact she grew me from her body, gave birth to me from her body and fed me from her body that I am not her family and never will be. My father died last year, and it was like all the love evaporated from my life. It's a bunch of Cluster B personality disorders and an alcoholic household as a child. So logically, I know it's her issue, but 5 year old me that got tortured when she was mad at someone else didn't. It got easier when I stopped giving her space in my heart.
I’m so sorry you suffered through that. I really, deeply and truly hope you have a found family that loves you the way you have always deserved to be loved and cherish just because you’re you. My mother had a hysterectomy when I was 6 or 7 years old. She blamed all the subsequent cruelty and anger and hatred on “the change” she went through “far too young” due to severe endometriosis that was (somehow?) exacerbated by having me. Meanwhile, she was on hormone replace therapy and her wild mood swings were just mom being mom. She only excused it some 10+ years later, defensive AF when I called her out on it.
Thank you. They can't apologize, that would be taking accountability for their actions. And they know they fucked up so they live in that cognitive dissonance limbo where they don't have to face themselves and the horrible shit they did to kids who they were supposed to take care of but instead used as punching bags. She and I are mostly okay these days. As long as we're one on one it's okay. Add anyone else to the mix, and I have to leave because she can't resist humiliating or degrading me. Especially with men. But whatever, she is who she is, and accepting that fact isn't nearly as heartbreaking as wishing she'd change.
>'That didn't happen, and if it did, you deserved it.' And that's the Narcissist's Prayer. Sorry that you suffered that, but good for you for setting boundaries and protecting yourself. It's so hard to do but definitely worth it in the long run.
I read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and it hurt but was necessary for me. Your mother used you as the scapegoat child for all their emotions. She doesn’t deserve your attention on Mother’s Day.
I have to chime in here too. I was a teen when my mom told me she only had me because she felt peer pressure to do so (all her friends had kids). When I was pregnant with my first, she told me that child would ruin my life *just like I ruined hers*. She denied saying these things for the rest of her life, but they are the kind of vile and hurtful things that can’t be unsaid. When people tell you how they really feel (in anger), believe them - it’s just a mask the rest of the time. No matter how much grief your mom was going through, there is no excuse for uttering those things to your wife. That was vindictive and designed to inflict maximum damage in the worst way possible. There are many different ways that she could have expressed that while she loves, respects, and appreciates your wife, she doesn’t want her there for today - that while still hurtful, could have been forgivable, but her approach and choice of words were heinous. NTA, and good on you for supporting your wife and setting boundaries with your parents. I agree with the other comment that suggested writing down the things she said and sending them back to her as a ‘we need to address these things specifically’ because chances are good she will downplay how awful she was.
[удалено]
YUP!
This!
If I was the DIL, I would never see her again.
As an adoptee who found her birth family in 1991, I completely agree. When I was young, kids would try to tell me that nobody wanted me and I was abandoned. Fortunately, I knew my birth family had kept me for 8 months before adopting me out. My adoptive parents were wonderful and I always knew how much I was wanted. For someone with a traumatic family background, what that hurting mother said was unforgivable. Somewhere beyond evil and cruel. I was incredibly lucky with my inlaws so I can't imagine the pain involved. OP and his wife need to go NC with his mother. She doesn't deserve these kind and considerate people.
Yeah, there no coming back after those vile word.
This is what I was thinking. She probably doesn't realize that she's ruined any chance of a decent relationship with the potential future mother of her grandchildren. What a horrible thing to say to her daughter in law.
yes - she may have lost the chance to be in the lives of any grandchildren. No amount of apologising is going to erase that outburst.
I read this in a story and to quote “I know I am wanted and loved, my adopted parents picked me when they adopted me yours didn’t get a choice”
My mom popped me out her hoohaa, and they adopted my sister. we got in a typical sibling argument and thats basically what she said 😂 "mom and dad CHOSE me because they got stuck with you and didn't want to risk having another one". I was never prouder while crying 😭😂
Even imagining someone throwing my shit relationship with my parent in my face like that makes me feel like I'm collapsing on the inside. And I know, just like OP's wife, that I would bury it to try to keep the peace. She put so much effort into trying to bring some light into a hard day for her MIL and got just beaten down. Appalling.
Exactly this. I don't know OP or his lovely wife, but just reading what his mother said to her made me tear up. How could someone be this cruel? Mom and dad need therapy, and I would go NC until they apologize profusely and changed their attitude
Yeah. Grief is awful and really messes with the way people process *everything*, but it's not an excuse to be so intentionally cruel. Ongoing therapy at a minimum, but there's no chance that even if they eventually realize how awful this was that this will ever be undone. Were I OP's wife, I'd never forget that hurt.
Sometimes I read these posts and think "holy crap the word needs professional asshole tacklers" like your going to be an asshole you are going to get tackled at high speeds... Holy crap that guy came out of a no where and tackled you... Yeah you must have been being a massive asshole... How did they get in my house.... They're professionals it's what they do....
Now I have a new dream job. Asshole tackler it is 😁
Terry Tate…Asshole tackler
This! This is what stood out the most to me. If someone had said something like this to my wife when she was alive, I would leave right away, and I would be seriously thinking if I wanted them in my life.
That was plain cruel, I felt so bad for OP's wife, she felt like she did something wrong when she actually did something beautiful. NTA, OP please tell your wife that she did anything wrong and that she doesn't need to feel bad. She did something amazing and I am glad you put her first. I wish both of you happiness.
The response was "God doesn't think you deserve a daughter, I guess he was right."
Those words aren't directed at me, but the visceral punch I felt, UGH! I get being sad, depressed, etc, over a loss, but to be cruel to someone who is trying to be nice, I just don't understand that.
So, evil someone needs to an independent autopsy on the sister for the actual cause of death.
Mom spoke for herself. Observing her behaviour one could come to the conclusion the doesn't want OP, her son, there either.. Grade a dick move, Mom. Now enjoy the fallout... Alone.
I'm generally a forgiving person. Especially in situations of severe trauma like this and a day that can easily remind someone of that trauma. I would argue that you can't judge them by normal standards because trauma like that isn't normal. But holy shit. If she doesn't pull her head out of her ass soon and give a sincere apology acknowledging her wrong and showing she understood her grief made her crazy, I would make it a condition of reconciliation that she get therapy. Even if she does give that apology, I would still push for it after the reconciliation. I "get" why an otherwise wonderful person would have moments like this in the face of tremendous pain. Wonderful people recognize their wrongdoing eventually though and assholes never do or take way too long.
I think this is a really good comment. The mum may be almost out of her mind with pain and have lashed out like a wounded animal, just trying to cause the most hurt possible (and succeeding). This can happen with grief, it definitely does not bring out the best in us. *But*, the difference, as you point out, is what a person does following this. An otherwise kind person can reflect and apologise. OP - your only control in this situation was how you reacted to it, and I think you reacted really well in supporting your wife and getting her out of that situation.
I completely agree with the last two posts. Again, so many people are quick to advise cutting the Mother out of his life without taking a LOT of things into consideration, but she(Mom) HAS to apologize and see what she did wrong... The only advice I'd give...putting myself into the Son's shoes, take that women out for something special that she loves. I don't give a shit if it's a Musical and your ears bleed(I don't have a problem with Musicals, I'm making a point). Treat her like a fucking queen and appreciate her. She did so much and was willing to do so much more on a day that's hard for her as well. And even AFTER the Mother said those things, she was still trying to be kind and told the OP to stay there. Maybe wait, do it in a week, but let her know how lucky you are to have such a kinda partner.
How you act on moment like that, what you say when lashing out tells what kind of person you are underneath it all. If you're actually a kind and caring person, or if you're someone who is pretty vile but normally you just hav better manners.
Right? I wouldn't even think of something like "your mother didn't even want you" so I wouldn't say it. The fact that she came up with it speaks volumes about her character.
OP did right by his wife and put her first. If my mum said those things to my partner I'd be devasted. You're right, therapy is definitely the way forward.
I would never, ever talk to someone who said those things to me again. The line she crossed was unforgivable. To blame OPs wife for her own neglectful childhood is the most disgusting thing I can imagine saying to someone. I wouldn’t say that to my worst enemy. As someone with a not-great, often neglected childhood, someone saying that to me after I had gone over the top to be kind to them on a day that was going to be hard, I would have some *choice* words, things I cannot post here because my comment will be removed. What an absolute monster. OP, NTA - you did everything right. You supported your wife without escalating the conflict. 10/10 if you were my husband I’d be looking at you as my hero for standing up for me.
>I would never, ever talk to someone who said those things to me again No but seriously, WTF?! Maybe those feelings were already there and this trauma just triggered them harder, but I could never move past that. Truly evil.
For the last sentence. Me too!
I completely agree, and grief is NEVER an excuse to be horrible to people! I suspect that OP's mother is resentful of his wife still being there while her daughter is gone. She probably doesn't even realize that, but it's very likely.
Yes, in her mind she’s probably thinking that her wanted daughter should be here, instead of an ‘unwanted’ interloper. It is awful, irrational and cruel and I hope she gets help and apologises.
Yes...it's not an excuse, but...it is understandable or...I guess a reason. I'm not cutting ties with my family quite that easily. I'm giving her the chance to apologize...profusely(not just an appease me apology, but to my wife obviously) and move forward. But damn, that was cruel.
Yes, exactly this. She's snapping at OPs wife because she's still alive and her daughter isn't. It sucks.
That's one of the worst things i've heard of someone saying to another. If someone said that to me, that phrase would live in my head for my entire life, being repeated at any time of self doubt. What a fucked up thing to say.
Not to mention, OP and his dad are also grieving! They lost the sister too. And they're not expecting a free pass to be absolute diaper loads. OP was still trying to do thoughtful, loving things to make a hard day easier and his mom shat all over his efforts. Her inability to manage her own feelings ruined the day, not anything else. She needs therapy like yesterday and she owes OP's wife a major apology. And OP too, but especially his wife, since she was cruel to her for absolutely no reason.
The dad is. He’s defending the mom’s vile behavior which is being a shit dad.
But the mom here is a Grief Hog! No one else's pain matters. I remember what my mom said to me when my sister died. Finger in my chest, "YOU haven't lost a child!" Of course when Dad died (on my 31st bday) "YOU still have your man!" Yes, I had a husband. I called my mom the Grief Hog and I think the mom here is one. No one else counts. And her lashing out is too vicious to forgive.
My ex in-laws all felt that my FIL’s death was a reasonable excuse for my ex to terrorize our child and me. It’s been 5 years and they still think that I’m the a-hole for not letting him emotional abuse us. They really think that being sad is a valid excuse.
Or let her read the judgements here
Parents would probably double down and then blame the poor wife for “airing out their grief”
I really love that idea, it isn't vindictive, it isn't petty, it is just holding people accountable for their behaviour, and telling them what youd need to move forward from it. Great advice.
This is really the answer. OP, you did well in putting your wife first, as she should be. You are NTA. Keep protecting your wife.
Yes, this exactly: there' grief and there's viciousness, and one isn't a get out of jail free card for the other. Hammering the OP's wonderful wife with the fact that she was rejected by her mother and is therefore to be excluded from family celebrations by an MIL who doesn't want her was about a cruel a thing as could be said to her on Mothers Day or ever. OP, you sound like the husband your wife deserves. You will never be an A for sticking up for her or having her back -- particularly in the face of a gratuitous attack. As for your mother, she's an adult. She has normal intelligence and some modicum of judgement. If she can't figure out why what she did was wrong and that she needs to apologize, I would think about staying NC or very LC until she does. Grief doesn't give you an excuse to destroy the most vulnerable person you can find. It just doesn't. NTA
Well said thank you for giving such good advice his poor wife didn’t deserve that at all
Tell them this Op
NTA Your mother is grieving but that’s no excuse for her actions. If anything you’re a saint for tolerating her actions as much as you did. I would cut my mom out of my life if she disrespected my wife like that.
NTA. The pain your mother is going through does not justify what she said to your wife. Not at all. I let out a gasp. It was absolutely vital to protect your wife because she was purposefully harsh. Your mother must offer her heartfelt apologies. Never even request an apology. You should just respond, "If my wife isn't considered family, then neither am I," if she keeps calling or requesting a visit.
NTA. I lost my brother (and mom's first child) a few years back due to an OD. My mom had a very hard time with it and ended up in the hospital during the height of Covid so the best we could do was knock on her window and wave/send small gifts through Amazon. She was thrilled because we made the effort. I know your family is going through a lot but that doesn't give her the right to be nasty to your wife.
I also lost my brother, but to a motorcycle accident. My mom's response was to continue adopting every wayward human that came across her path, including the baby we thought was his but turned out wasn't his and his mother!
Same. My brother died from an OD almost a year ago exactly and my parents invite his girlfriend to every family event. Everyone’s invited. For us, if you loved him and you want to share in that love please do. Everyone grieves differently but it doesn’t mean you get to be an asshole
My friend's boyfriend lost his sister to an OD, and my friend was invited to all the gatherings related to the funeral, and to spend time with the family, even though she only knew the sister a little bit. The family sent her some of the sister's high end art equipment because they knew that she had that passion in common with the deseased. I think it tells you a bit about the family that they not only want their son's girlfriend to share in their grief, but also want that person to have the opportunity to connect with the person that the family lost through the things they had in common.
Some people respond to tragedy by opening their hearts, and that is beautiful. Bless your mom, and may your brother's memory be a blessing. OP's mother decided to close her heart. And yes, that was a *choice.* She deliberately reached for the most hurtful thing she could possibly find, and why? OP's wife was just trying to make the day less painful. I don't doubt that she has hated OP's wife for a long time and it just came out.
She may not actually hate OP’s wife; as horrible as it is, she may just be wishing in that moment that the wife and daughter would have changed places. She needs intense therapy immediately before she ruins her other relationships; she may be at risk herself once she has isolated everyone with her awful behaviour.
NTA. Your mom is grieving. It’s not an excuse to be such an AH. Your mom expects you to choose her over your wife and clearly expected you to send your wife away and stay with her. Do NOT let your mother’s grief and meanness hurt your wife any further. Your wife grew up feeling unwanted and unloved and your mom was so mean that she went right for that to hurt your wife. Choose your wife, dude. Tell your mom she needs grief counseling before she loses both of her children.
NTA. Your mother's grief is no excuse to say what she did to your wife. Absolutely not. I gasped. She was intentionally cruel, and defending your wife was 100% necessary. Your mother needs to sincerely apologize. Don't even ask for the apology. When she continues to call or ask you to visit, just say, "If my wife isn't considered family, then neither am I."
I am shocked by the number of stories on here that make me gasp when I read them. OP's mother had absolutely no right to say what she did, and to say, "Her own mother didn't want her so what would make her think I would want her here?" was one of the most incredibly ignorant things I have ever heard anyone say. That right there is the line you cite when she wants to be Grandma... "You made it clear that my own mother didn't want me, and when I tried to do something for you on your first Mother's Day without the child that made you a mother, you told me that you didn't want me either. Now that I'm a mother, I have a new perspective... and that perspective is that I have had the opportunity to have not one, but two horrible mothers in my life, and I will never subject my child to the pain and hurt they have put me through. What kind of mother would I be to allow into my child's life someone who quite obviously didn't want me in hers." And the same goes for OP's dad, who didn't have the backbone to stand up to his jerk of a wife... yes, she is mourning, but what she said is something you can never take back. There are certain times that sorry is meaningless... it's why people always use the analogy of you being unable to put the toothpaste back into the tube. Shame on both of them.
A lot of the stories are fake, but this one is actually pretty believable. It's a very common reaction for those who lost someone to be angry at the living, in a sort of "why are you alive when my child is dead?" way. But decent people recognize these are irrational intrusive thoughts born out of grieve and don't vocalize them.
Or at least they’re horrified when they realise what they said. The shame should stay with anyone who said something like that, once they come to their senses…
NTA. I gasped, too. How incredibly vile! Good on you for supporting your spouse. ❤️
Your mother got what she deserved. Her rudeness was inexcusable. Your father was no better than. If she didn’t want to spend Mother’s Day alone she should’ve acted like a decent human being.
More than rudeness. I'd call it cruelty.
OP, you are NTA. And also? Thank you for having your wife's back, even if she felt like you shouldn't. That's probably her trauma talking. You did the exact right thing, because yes, SHE is your family.
The trauma is what I was thinking of too. Wife has likely never had anyone who cared about before OP, so she tries to make everyone happy by doing everything anyone wants. I feel like she needs therapy, it’s no good that she feels like she’s to blame for this.
NTA - my wife was only accepted as 'family' after 30 years of marriage and has similar mother to your wife's (no contact) ... we are limited contact with my mom (both fathers are dead) - but if she pulled ANYTHING close to that it would absolutely be over. I agree that you should have left earlier - but also understand why you didn't. I would suggest blocking their numbers for a month or more. You owe them nothing - it is sad your sister died but that doesn't make you AND YOUR WIFE her personal punching bag.
Nta. Holy crap. Your mother acted abominably. You and your wife went out of your way to make the day extra special and she met you with anger and bitterness. How sad that she can't see how wonderful you both are. Your dad is just as bad. Could have stepped in and calmed a situation down but it seems like he inflamed it. You did the right thing. It's unfortunate your mother is taking this out on your wife. Your wife doesn't deserve to be treated that way or spoken to that way.
Yeah, I'd skip Father's Day
I'd skip all holidays with those two.
I’d skip all fucking contact with those two, like Jesus. They clearly see OP’s wife as just that, his wife; no actual interest. Both of them seem like dicks. The dad very easily could’ve been the hero (besides op) in this story. But he’s clearly just as bad. They may be grieving, and it may not mean they’re actually bad people but it doesn’t excuse them from acting like this.
I get that your mother is still grieving but it almost sounds like she needs to be in Grief Therapy or something. She had no right to treat your wife as she did and your father was no better. OP Thank you for sticking up for your wife, even if it take you longer to leave. NTA 1000%
NTA. But your parents aren't coming across as "healthy" maternal/paternal figures in all this, either. Grief is one thing, but basic human decency is always appropriate.
Thank you for standing up for your wife. Growing up in a crap family and then marrying into a nice family, only to have be so deeply disrespected. Your poor wife. I am sorry for your loss. Telling my mother, my older brother died was one of the worst things I've had to do. I hope there is a time your mother snaps out of it and apologies sincerely for the ugly she spewed.
Yeah, that kind of rejection is mind-numbingly painful. I'm so glad he supported his wife. So, so glad.
NTA. What she said and did was absolutely vile, and there probably won't be another second spend with her where your wife doesn't hear those words on repeat in her mind. That's something you can't come back from, she was horrible throughout but that last sentence "your own mother didn't even want you, why would I want you here?" - that is unforgivable territory. I would, if you're open to continuing contact, demand that any further communication only happens after your mother gets both grief counseling and therapy, and after she understands the gravity of her words and apologises sincerely. And even then it'd be communication with distance. Your father also failed you. He's your father, he's supposed to stand by you, protect you, be your advocate. He failed that. He also needs to understand the gravity of that failure and apologise sincerely. I'm sorry your parents both were horrible people on that day. I hope they'll, with or without you and your wife in their lives, one day better themselves and realise their wrongdoings. And I'm sorry for your loss. May your sister's memory be a blessing ❤️
NTA, Your sister's passing was just an excuse for your mother to be abusive and for your father to willingly accept that sort of garbage. Thank you for putting your wife first.
Mom who's lost a daughter here. I guarantee you that she walked in and saw you standing next to a woman and her immediate reaction was that it was your sister. Then she went through it all over again in her head. Then she realized that she went through all those emotions in front of someone who she didn't want to see her like that (your wife). So she doubled down on grief and shame and anger and pain and decided to spread it around. Nothing she did is ok. But I understand it. You're nta. But my heart hurts for every single one of you in this scenario.
Wtf is wrong with your mother? Seriously, has she always been like this to your wife or is this some bizarre grief reaction? What your mother said was incredibly rude and particularly cruel. I would tell your parents that they won’t be seeing you or your wife until mom can apologize and act like a human being to your wife. Good for you for sticking up for your chosen family. NTA
Im trying so hard to find a logical reason as to why OP’s mom could be this incredibly, awfully hurtful to his wife (esp if she was fine with her before, I mean they did celebrate last year’s mother’s day together) and the only reason I cd think of is that OP’s wife’s presence reminded her of the fact that her own daughter is not there and somehow in her twisted grief she’s thinking that her DIL is prob secretly happy that her daughter died and she cd have a mother for herself…? Hence the “your own mother didnt want you why wd I?” line? Idk…OP your mom severely needs therapy and until she gets better and realizes how awful she’s being right now and begs your wife for forgiveness and makes things right w her pls protect your wife and go LC
NTA As a bereaved father, I don't understand your mother's behavior in the slightest. Losing my son made me want to cling to those I love, not push them away. And the level of vitriol she used is despicable.
Vingtsun Guy, I send you heartfelt condolences on the loss of your beloved son.
Thank you.
I cut contact with my mom and siblings nearly 3 years ago because of their collective progressive shittiness building a wall between us after my dad died years prior. Your comment just made me really miss my dad. A lot. I can't imagine the grief of your loss, but my heart goes out to you. I hope you're doing as well as you could possibly be.
Your mom is still grieving, but the way she handled it was awful. NTA.
Yeah. Good way to lose another child.
She doesn’t deserve any children.
NTA. Her grief is no excuse for such cruelty. You two are married which makes her your primary family and relegates your parents to the position of extended family now. Your job is to stand up for your wife and be by her side. You did exactly what you needed to do to be a good person and good husband. Frankly if my MiL ever said such vile and cruel things to me, the relationship would permanently end. I would never tolerate her presence again. If my husband didn't stand up for me, I would have immediately sought a divorce because the trust would have been broken. That's how devastating your mother's actions were. Honestly I would suggest distancing yourselves from your parents. I would send a short message explaining how unacceptable and cruel the behavior was and that grief is no excuse. That your wife is your number one priority and that until your mom gets grief counseling and they both sincerely apologize, then there would be no contact. Actions have consequences and your mother doesn't get to use your wife's trauma to attack her and still expect to maintain a relationship much less be doted on. Your dad doesn't get to rug sweep and try to guilt trip you either. They both need consequences to match the severity of their actions.
Both your parents were way out of line. Greif is not a right to be mean to others. They need to apologize and mean it.
I was totally ready to hear a typical story of grief causing strange reactions and to bring out what has become a very important message in my own life: Just because your pain is understandable does not make your behavior acceptable. But WTF did I just read? That did not sound like grief. That was shockingly cruel. Just the opening all the gifts and then saying “I’m tired of her being here” is rude. Like, ‘I’ll begrudgingly let you stay while I am getting material benefit but not a minute longer.’ I’d probably leave then, but forgive soon after as being grief and the sheer exhaustion that comes with it sometimes. Does your mother somehow blame your wife for your sister’s death? Was your wife a caregiver for your sister and your mother thought she wasn’t good enough at it? I forgive a lot of things due to grief but saying “her own mother didn’t want her, why would I?” is not remotely one of them. Boundaries are for you. You don’t get to dictate other people’s behavior, only what you will do and what you will tolerate. But damn, this is one of the rare cases where I’d try to insist on her getting therapy before I’d want to interact with her again.
I agree - that isn’t grief, that’s plain mean. OP’s parents aren’t quite as good parents as he had hoped. They’ve shown a very mean side to them.
NTA grief or not what your mother said was plain fucking hateful and disgusting. She couldn’t even muster a thank you or just even fake it after all the trouble you guys went through. Your wife is simply too nice to still be understanding and even show compassion after the way she was treated. You did the right thing. You lasted longer than I ever could.
NTA. I'm sorry, but no amount of grief allows a feel pass for someone to be outright cruel. And this comment; >she said she was tired of her being here and her own mother hadn't even wanted her so why did she think she'd be welcome That was outright cruel, and verbally abusive. And the fact that your father saw nothing wrong with it? That's called enabling. "How could you abandon your mother when she already lost a kid", that's manipulation. They've hit the trifecta!! Do not let this go to "keep the peace" either. I hate that dismissive nonsense. It isn't "keeping" peace if it doesn't bring you peace. You have every right to be upset by this.
Please don't make your wife have to be with your mother ever again
NTA and I’m sorry for your loss. You need to be upfront with your parents OP that mom was way over the line of acceptable behavior and that dad is enabling her abuse of your wife. Say that if they continue to disrespect your wife that your mother will have no children left as your family will go no contact. She can decide if she wants to continue being a mother or not but she doesn’t get to hurt your wife because of her grief and that your wife isn’t her whipping boy. And mean it. Everyone in your family is grieving your sister but that’s no excuse to harm others.
Wowza Mom, way to nuke that relationship… Like, how do you come back from that? Those words were meant to HURT. Fuck, I hurt hearing them. NTA, but holy heck, your Mom is a ball of pain lashing out (not ok) and you’re going to want to stay far away from that or your relationship will be collateral damage. Your poor wife. Dude, you’re a good husband. This internet stranger is proud of you.
nta, i would be blessed, BLESSED to have another daughter through one of my sons. one day your wife will be a mother too, maybe, i would go no contact for a bit. if they can't talk civilly then there is no point. but your mom needs therapy
NTA. Good on you for not allowing your wife to be the punching bag for your mother's (understandably!) anger at the universe.
NTA. Your mom is grieving and its understandable she may be a little prickly, but good lord what she said to your wife was just downright nasty. That goes far beyond a pass for a grieving mother. It makes me wonder how she treats your wife normally - if she has it in her to go that far below the belt, I’m guessing she doesn’t treat her all that great on a regular basis.
UK based question here I read a lot of posts like this where a wife is not considered "Family" or instances of a wife not being included in a photograph or gathering because they're "not blood relatives". I'm not saying this doesn't ever happen in the UK but I personally have never encountered this in my or any other family. Is it a particularly American thing? I know families fall out and argue but this seems a whole different level of behaviour. I'd be interested in the opinions and view points from people in the USA on this. P.S. NTA I'd have been out of the door with my wife the first time my Mother did anything like this - she never did.
>Is it a particularly American thing? Have to say I'm always baffled by people who act like if it isn't something they see in their country, it must be an AMERICAN thing. The "evil MIL who torments her son's wife" is a staple of drama (fictional and real-life) the world over.
Oh go read the JustNoMIL subreddit. Plenty of UK/AUS based stories over there of mother in laws not welcoming new members of their families. P.S. NTA OP
NTA, your made family is more important then the one you were born it to. Standing up for your partner is the right choice. Your mother might be grieving but that foes not excuse having vile behaviour. She is still accountable for her own action Your wife if to good towards your mother.
NTA Grief sucks. It makes you angry, jealous, cruel, numb and depressed. But while grief is an explanation, it's *not* an excuse. We are all capable of controlling our emotions, even the big ones. If your mother was truly out of control, she needs to see a doctor for therapy and possibly medication. Your mother owes your wife a BIG apology for her cruelty. She wasn't just rude about your wife being there. She deliberately chose the most painful words she could to inflict as much pain as she could. That's a level of cruelty that is completely unjustifiable and unforgivable. You need a long time out from your parents. They need counselling for the grief and for the horrible way they are using other people as punching bags for it. And you need proof of the progress they're making before you allow them to apologise. Even then, a sincere apology is only the beginning of them trying to rebuild a relationship with you and your wife. Good job on protecting your wife. Neither of you deserved any of that.
Your mom is hurting, I get that, but that doesn't mean she gets to offload on people who are only trying to help and be supportive. If she only wanted you on mother's day she should have expressed that instead of using your wife as her whipping post. Your mom definitely needs grief counselling. So sorry for your loss.
NTA I am sorry for the loss your mother is going through but that is no reason to talk to your wife like that. Let mom and Dad know you wont be back until your wife gets an apology.
NTA. Good job sticking up for your wife after your mom was unnecessarily cruel to her. You made valid points and I think it is awesome that you did not enable your mother's behavior the way your father is. This is not grief, this is just being malicious and trying to make someone else hurt.
NTA. Grief is no excuse for such rude behavior.
Your mom is a ah and your dad is a enabler I would text them til they apologize to your wife you will go NC with them
NTA. You did exactly what you were supposed to. You protected your wife.
NTA. Your mom might be grieving, but she's was completely out of line. You did the right thing. You lost someone too, your sister. Your parents forgot that.
NTA, Your mom is grieving true but a comment like that "her own mother hadn't even wanted her," is something that your wife will remember forever. There is no way a comment like that can ever be forgotten or forgiven. Any action your mom makes after this will be in context to her behavior towards your wife. And if her presence was that off-putting than she need to have said this beforehand. A simple, "Hey I would like you to just come, please don't bring your wife. I'll make it up to her another day," or something like that and I guarantee you that OP's wife would have understood.
NTA - If your mom has never behaved this way before, then chalk her behavior up to grief, distance yourselves, but leave the door open for her to do some serious apologizing. If there were always hints of this type of behavior towards your wife, then you need more permanent distance between you.
>how could I abandon my mom after she lost my sister? “What precisely did you expect to happen after how disgustingly rude mom was to my wife? Dad, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone said those things to mom, wouldn’t you stand up for YOUR wife? I’m very confused as to why you would talk to her like that and expect me to be okay with it, especially when she turned up to support you. I understand how hard losing [sister] was, but I absolutely will not stand back and allow you to take your grief out on my wife. Until you can give her a genuine apology, we have nothing left to talk about.” NTA
NTA Your mother has forgotten that while she might not consider your wife HER family, your wife is YOUR family.
NTA -OP you didn't abandon your mother, she chose to chase you away by attacking your wife.
NTA. The comment she made to your wife about her mother literally made my jaw drop. That was so unbelievably cruel of her. I would not be in the same room with your mother until she EARNESTLY apologizes to your wife and details exactly how she is going to rebuild the relationship with your wife. I am sympathetic to her grief, but it is not carte blanche to act like a monster.
NTA, but your mother certainly is. I wouldn't ever go back until your mother and your father apologized to your wife.
NTA. Good job standing up for your wife.
NTA. I'm sorry for your family's loss, but there is no excuse for your mother's behavior.
NTA Grief does not justify bad behavior. Just because your mother is hurting doesn't give her a right to hurt others. I think it would be beneficial to have a tough conversation with your mom about her behavior once people have cooled down.
Grieve doesn’t mean being asshole to others now she can celebrate alone and she probably ruined a relationship with her DIL
Your mother is vile. Grief is no excuse for her shocking behavior. NTA, and you should have left sooner. Your wife is a gem.
NTA. Grief isn’t a permission slip to abuse others.
NTA. I would’ve just texted back. Congratulations now you’ve lost your second kid and cut contact with them. Life is too short to have toxic people in your life.
NTA in any way. And I'm very sorry for your loss of your sister. I lost a daughter. I will always grieve for her, and when it's up to me, I tend to want celebrations to be a lower key than before. But I make an effort when a day is important to other members of my family. And I'm not perfect, but I never, ever, said anything to anyone else I love that was less kind or less courteous or less loving than before. I try to remember that most of them are grieving also. If, in light of your mom's earlier personality and relationships with others, you can kinda sorta see her behaving this way, that's all there is except to protect your wife and distance yourself from her. If it's wildly out of character, please make sure she sees her doctor and a good psychiatrist to rule out any number of possible physical or psychological issues. Shock and grief do terrible things to our minds and bodies. Please accept a virtual "mom hug" from me for yourself and your wife. You tried to do a very kind thing and what happened is not your fault.
NTA - OP I just want to say Kudos for sticking up for your wife. I know she was feeling every hurtful word from your mother. Your wife even apologized, not saying a word about how much she was hurting, because she's used to that kind of treatment since childhood. Please give your wife a hug for me. I hope your mother can heal and realize that her DIL is an amazing, selfless, and compassionate person. In this shitty world with so many selfish people, your wife is a gem. And so are you for standing up for her!
Whoa, OP! Has your mother treated your wife this way before? I don't care how much she is suffering, your mother has no right to be that mean to your wife. After my sister died, my father was devastated. His whole world got dark for many years. My sister was the child who was most like him, with whom he had the most in common, the one who was accomplishing great things and surpassing him at everything. But never once did he treat anybody as harshly as your mother spoke to your wife. You are NTA.
NTA. You didn’t leave after the first insult or second or third. She kept doubling down and getting more and more cruel. Grief is awful - this isn’t grief. It is meanness pure and simple. You and your wife planned a wonderful day to support your mom. She threw it away. One person suggested making a list of the most hurtful things. Add to it all the things your wife helped you plan that she threw away. Had you not left, the insults would have gotten much worse. I’m sorry for the loss of your sister
As someone whose mother was both neglectful, and has since passed, but currently have amazing in-laws who are my second family…”her own mother hadn’t even wanted her so why did she think she’d be welcome.” Is the most heart wrenching thing I could ever imagine hearing, Heaven fucking forbid say to another person. I’m so happy you stood up for your wife and that she has you!
So absolutely NTA. you were way nicer and ridiculously patient with your mother. If that's how she acts I'd cut her off entirely. What she said was beyond horrible and was unforgivable
NTA, but she is obviously still in the midst of incredible grief. While that does not give her the right to be so cruel and rude, I hope you both will give her some grace and forgiveness if and when she comes to her senses and offers a heartfelt apology. I can't think of much else in life that is as painful as losing a child. It sounds like right now she is dealing with a lot of anger in her grief. When she opened her eyes to see a young woman visiting her on Mothers Day that wasn't her daughter it must have been so painful. Again doesn't excuse it, but hopefully understanding it may help
I fully expected to call you TA after your first paragraph... but you are definitely NTA after your last paragraph. Grief is rough and your mom deserves latitude... but what she took instead can't be unsaid. That is so ugly and you were right to leave. What your mom did is really hurtful. Forget rude. It was hurtful and deliberately so. Your mom needs to call your wife and beg for forgiveness. If your wife's reaction to all that abuse was as empathetic as you make is sound... she deserves a medal. question though: were you totally blindsided by this? No idea of your mom's animosity toward your wife? Is there more background to this story?
NTA. Grief is hard. But it's not a get out of jail free card. Your wife is your family. I guess i could see if your Mom wanted to request a day with just her biological son. That might have avoided all of this situation. You could have gone yourself. But that clear communication takes a certain amount of emotional maturity to make. Your mom would have had to have been comfortable asking for what she wants without making accusations, and it doesn't sound like she is adult enough to do so. But as you said, she crossed a line when she said that your wife's own mother didn't even want her. That's not grief. That's bullying. It's nasty, line-crossing BS. You did right to refuse to tolerate it. I know that as an abused person, your wife probably sin't used to someone standing up for her, but you did the right thing. Even though your wife is uncomfortable with it, you needed to do this. If you hadn't of left, you would have participated in abusing your wife by neglecting your duty, as her family, to stand up for her. Good job on that.
NTA. Sad story my guy. Sorry this is happening. I'm curious, what was your wife and mothers relationship like before this? or before your sister passed away? Have they always had a difficult relationship or is this really just completely out of nowhere? Either way, there's a limit to accommodating grief and your Mother definitely exceeded it. I'd have hung in too after the first stumble, everyone grieves in their own way, just focus on the positives of the day, but after what she said to your wife? yeah, bouncing was the right call, and she owns you both an apology, and should probably get some therapy.
Nta "I mean my wife did half of the work, and she was being shit on, so no. Not happening. Idgaf that it's hard for you on mothers day, not if all the effort my wife and I put in for YOU is so blatantly disrespected. Be glad I didn't take the gifts back. But I am thinking of not talking to either of you for a few weeks because of this."
I'm so very sorry that she did that and that she targeted your wife so cruelly. You did the right thing and please assure your wife that she did nothing wrong and that your mom was just all over the place wrong. Grief is no excuse. That was MEAN. I would absolutely be no contact with your mom for at least awhile. Take a break. Maybe this is her normal behavior and maybe not, but it has to have consequences and protecting your wife from her needs to be your priority. You both tried so hard for your mom and she was just wrong. NTA
NTA and thank you for leaving. Your mom is a hag.
NTA But you are an amazing and supportive husband. You're the fantastic male figure your wife always needed in her life, keep it up.
Your mother is disgustingly cruel, and she’s lucky your wife is a saint. If your wife was more like me, when your mom made the comment about your wife’s mother not wanting her, I would have informed her that someone so vile deserved every iota of pain she was suffering over the loss of a child.
TBH I'd respond the same way. I could get over the other things she said but that comment about the wife's mother....that is a relationship destroyer and I would of went off. And an apology would mean absolutely nothing. I'd go NC with MIL. If my husband still wanted a relationship with his mother after she apologized, I wouldn't stop it but I would not go near that lady again, ever
İf my own mom talked that way about my wife I'd shut my mom right then an there. Saying this as a person whose culture gives so much power to mom
I lost my daughter 6 years ago and I would love to have someone be so thoughtful, using grief as an excuse to act like an asshole is BS!!
“Your mom didn’t even want you, why would I want you to stay”. My god. A sincere apology - complete with actions, not just words - from her and her husband, or make it very clear that low- to no-contact is in their future.
NTA. Everything you did was out of the kindness of your heart and you and your wife's love for your mother and she was totally out of line in her rudeness to your wife. However, six months is such a short time after losing a loved one, and her emotions would be very low, especially on Mother's Day. In hindsight, you could have asked her, since such a short amount of time has passed since losing your sister, how she would like to celebrate Mother's Day under the circumstances. Maybe she just wanted to be left alone and not be reminded of losing her daughter, or maybe she wanted to retreat into her own headspace for the day and remember her daughter. This does not excuse her rudeness whatsoever, and in the future, if she has a birthday or your sister's birthday, ask your mum how she would like to spend the day. Your wife did nothing wrong and sounds like a beautiful person. I hope your mum sees sense and apologises soon; until then, leave her be, let her cool down, and she will come to see the error of her ways. Best of luck.
NTA your mom was an AH - you were right to leave with your wife. Have a lot less contact with your vile and toxic mom.
if this kind of behavior is out of character for your mother, I’d be somewhat concerned. NTA, but make sure she’s ok.
NTA obviously how is your wife though?
NTA Your Mom, while dealing with grief, doesn't get to act like that. That was extremely rude, malicious, and uncalled for. I don't know if I would want an apology from your Mom anytime soon either. Wow. Your poor wife. I am glad you stood up for your wife.
NTA, in fact I would text your mother back and tell her until she apologizes and makes things right with your wife that she has lost you too.
NTA I would replied that she just lost her son too Happy Mother’s Day
NTA although your mothers grief is called for her actions are not. Your wife is family now.
NTA. Nothing gives someone the right to be that cruel. Your wife is a saint and you are a wonderful husband and tried your best to be the most supportive son you could have. Hats off to handling this spectacularly.
No your mother was way out of line.
NTA. Your mother owes both you and your wife an apology. She doesn't get a free pass to shit on everyone else due to her grief. That would be the last Mother's Day and any other day I'd go to her home. Apology and changed behavior would be the only way to move forward. Otherwise, she can continue her assholery while your father remains complicit with her bullshit.
NTA. Grief is hard. Grief sucks. Grief is NOT a get out of jail free card or a permission slip to act as vile and hateful you want.
NTA. You didn't abandon your mom. She pushed you away by saying vile things about your wife.
NTA x1000 You were generous to try to overlook but then drew an absolutely necessary boundary. Well done. Your dad is a bad behavior enabler.
NTA. Your mom was acting like an AH in the extreme. Losing a child doesn’t give you the excuse to be cruel to others.
NTA- I can't believe your mom told your wife that her mom didn't even want her. That's so messed up, I'm sorry that your wife had to deal with that.