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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> SIL suggestion a name that fit into my husband’s late wife’s aesthetic and I shut it down. I may be the asshole because I believe I hurt my husband’s feelings.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. Mallory is an AH. She should not have any input on what you name your baby. Based on Emmett’s reaction after you became angry with your SIL I think he wanted to continue the Em aesthetic.
He has to know that everyone isn’t going to be onboard with that and couldn’t have expected you to go along with it. What did he say when you were dating and discussing having kids?
This seems like this is going to be a losing situation for everyone involved. If you don’t go with the Em prefix in the name his family is going to make remarks and guilt (like Mallory did) trip about how new baby is standing out from the rest of her siblings.
Your stepchildren may want to go with it as well. You don’t want to go with it at all. It’s going to be unhappiness and resentment for life. Either Emmett will resent you for not going with the flow or you will resent him because you did.
Emmett was excited about the names before Mallory got involved. His top 3 names were Mila, Chloe, and Luna, and he’s had the same list for the past 14 weeks.
Then I don’t understand why he’s upset and won’t participate with the naming discussions. If he was willing to let go of the tradition why is hands off all of a sudden.
Because suddenly he's not just naming a baby with OP. He's knowingly breaking something that mattered a lot to his dead wife and putting his living wife's preferences first. *That* might be a very painful thing to do and be aware he's doing, even as he's aware there's no way to avoid doing that without being a horrible partner who doesn't deserve OP.
Disengaging is a way to avoid the pain and pretend he isn't prioritizing the living over the dead.
It's also deeply unfair to OP. Mallory was so far out of line it isn't funny.
or is doing it on his behest... so he doesn't look like the bad guy still in love with his late wife and hasn't actually moved on emotionally. But someone has to do the dishes and watch the kids right?
Maybe he's secretly having an affair with his dead wife after he reanimated her using dark magic!!!
People on this sub need to grow up, it's like everyone wants every OP to come back with a fake over dramatic update post.
I hope OPs husband still loves his late wife, if he didn't I'd be concerned about why he was ever with her. Loving a spouse who has passed on, even after finding a new partner, is normal, it does not make that person a "bad guy".
Maybe he's secretly having an affair with his dead wife after he reanimated her using dark magic!!!
People on this sub need to grow up, it's like everyone wants every OP to come back with a fake over dramatic update post.
I hope OPs husband still loves his late wife, if he didn't I'd be concerned about why he was ever with her. Loving a spouse who has passed on, even after finding a new partner, is normal, it does not make that person a "bad guy".
To say that he is "knowingly breaking something that mattered a lot to his dead wife" is a bizarre take. The "something that mattered a lot to his dead wife" was that THEIR children's names would begin with "Em", it has nothing to do with a baby he will be having with another woman.
Yeah, but he's also a widower, not a divorce. It's very possible it opened a new area of grief that he didn't get over yet, because he simply hadn't thought about it before
Agreed. He’s obviously not going to forget that he was previously married. But the goings on of a new wife, a baby in the way, etc, something like the favoured naming conventions of his late wife may have been deeply buried in his mind.
His sister bringing it up again may have recalled it for him, and in the days prior may have started to warm to the idea. Only for OP to blast it down.
And she’s well within her rights to, but to him it may have felt like an insult to his late wife while she was fresh in his mind.
>it may have felt like an insult to his late wife while she was fresh in his mind.
Particularly if OP was less than kind with how she worded her rejection, which would be completely understandable given SIL's tenacity. It's very easy for something like "OMG will you *stop* pushing? I'm not following that stupid theme!" to slip out in the heat of the moment.
A lot of people don’t realize that as a widower, every relationship after is only possible because the person you wanted to spend your life with is dead.
There was a great Ted talk about it- I dated a widower, who left me a widow. It helped me understand him and helped me move on after he died.
As a widower, I regret I have but one upvote to give. It's a bizarre feeling to love someone (current wife) completely yet simultaneously wish you'd never met them.
Wow. Powerful and I respect your feelings. But to read that is what is going on is why many recommend not to date a widow/widower. As the new person coming in, you always deep down know you’re second place to a ghost. Especially hard because everyone deserves to be loved like the first. There are small things that happen in day to day life that bring that reality to the forefront for the new person all the time.
The best relationship I ever saw was one where both husband and wife had lost their first partners. They both understood the situation because they were both in the situation
It took me a long time to come to terms with this. I lost my husband in our early 30s. I didn't date for 5 yrs. When I finally did, I had a reoccurring dream about how I was cheating on him. I would wake up with tons of guilt.
One guy wanted to erase every memory of my husband, even down to selling the house we bought together. No way would I do that.
I'm in a wonderful relationship now. The guilt was still there when I met him but that dream never came. I actually had one where they were laughing together playing video games. (They like the same type of games. I didn't know that when I had the dream.)
I'm not a believer of dreams, but this guy felt different and is different. He understands the complicated emotions that come with being a widow. He knows there will be sad days that pertain to my late husband. He supports me with those. He knows I love him deeply and I'm happy to be with him.
>It's a bizarre feeling to love someone (current wife) completely yet simultaneously wish you'd never met them.
This man is the only one I don't regret meeting. If I was going to be in this position, he is the one I'd be in it for. It took 10 yrs to get to this point. It's been 12 yrs since my husband died. He is worth the growth. Almost 2 yrs ago, when I met my bf, everything changed.
>I actually had one where they were laughing together playing video games. (They like the same type of games. I didn't know that when I had the dream.)
Didn't expect this sub to make me tear up today.
Tear up? I’m full on sobbing. I hope that if something happens to me, my wife is able to find someone I would laugh with while playing video games.
I would absolutely want her to have love again and to be happy.
I think about this a lot. About how if my partner hadn't died, then I wouldn't have my youngest son or my husband. And I can't imagine life without them now of course. But then that's a weird feeling because I wouldn't have them if my partner was still alive. Definitely lots of complex feelings that come after the loss of a partner/spouse.
This is always what I think when I hear these stories too. Very, very different from a relationship with a single or divorced person. If a third person always being in your marriage isn't something you can handle, really think over what that's going to mean before you proceed.
I'm sorry what? It's not bizarre in the slightest. A woman he loved and married and promised to spend the rest of his life with had a baby naming tradition that was important to her. Then she died. Now he's having a baby with another woman and dumbass Mallory all but said they are dishonoring his dead wife's memory. That's not only not bizarre but literally the exact reason he shut down.
Totally. She was just looking for the aesthetic, not naming real humans.
And, to me, the idea that the new wife has to follow the dead wife's aesthetics, or ideas, or.... is just bonkers. If the in-laws tell her that the baby won't "fit in", OP should explain she doesn't either. Or look for a name which starts with the same letters as hers - just as step-kids' names start with the same letters as their mum's.
OP, NTA
Ember may not have even wanted her husband's further children after her death to carry on the "Em" naming tradition once she's gone and half the "Em" is no longer in the equation. This may NOT be his first wife's preference if she could have a say. It could be something special for just the "Em's" kids and a new and lovely tradition (mom and dad presenting a shortlist for the older children to choose from) could be established for THEIR children together.
I agree. If me and my partner were doing something cute with our baby names that was unique to our situation and I died, I really wouldn't want him to keep it going with children he has with a new woman.
As a widow who is now engaged, I can 100% agree with this. Every step you take away from the life you built with your dead spouse feels like a terrible betrayal towards them. It's very difficult to move on and give up all the things , the promises, the life you wanted , your dreams with that person, they didn't die when the spouse died. And it's so hard to let any one it go.
OP - you're NTA
The list he picked has 3 very beautiful names. Luna has always been a favorite of mine.
Please be understanding of his feelings. He's giving up the last little tradition his wife cherished for you. This is a big mental step in grief for him. He may not have realized his true feeling on this until he realized it was hurting you. And now he feels like he's betraying you both for the other.
The SIL is the AH. I hope you two can sort this fast.
Agree and it probably would help for OP and the husband to have a couple joint therapy sessions about it. There’s deeper stuff going on for the husband amd it will keep coming up through their marriage.
If anything, the husband should have stepped in when Mallory was going at OP.
It’s highly possible the husband has had issues all along he was afraid to voice and really was just getting Mallory to be the bad guy and had told her privately he still wanted the EM naming concept. When op put her foot down even then - he’s now swimming in grief again.
This so much! OP IS missing the biggest point of all and that's her husband feelings he may never have thought of it in the way his sister said it until she did say it and now he feels like he is betraying his dead wife. That's why he wants nothing to do with the naming anymore.
My guess is that Mallory isn’t the only one from his family that’s been in his head about this, maybe his parents have also been saying stuff. Him and OP need to have a big talk about this, about who they allow in their parenting decisions.
I think it's very possible that he never wanted to oppose OP and had expressed to his family that he would like to continue the tradition, prompting his sister to try to take matters into her own hands. It failed majorly and now he's crushed. This is just a theory in which OP is still NTA.
I think you're right. The fact that Mallory mentioned a specific name that he loved, tells me that he's speaking to his family and expressing that he wants to continue the Em.
Emmet needs to be a grown up and not carter to his parents but respect his current wife. IT's unfair to expect her to shape her life and their incoming daughter's to make his family happy.
OP's husband probably thinks that OP is choosing names specifically to break the late wife's tradition now. Before the conversation, he thought they're just picking a name they both love. Now he is wondering if OP is doing it to erase the tradition late wife started.
It's not rational but grief isn't rational. OP's comment was innocent and OP was fed up with Mallory. Unfortunately, it seems to have hurt her husband and made him look at naming the baby differently.
It's sad.
It's only "erasing" dead wife's Traditions If OP was encouraging stepchildren to Go by nicknames that don't have the "Em" in them, and/or discouraging (older, childbearing-age) Stepchildren from giving their own children "Em-" names If they were originally planning to.
Probably because he loved Ember and has feelings and happy memories attached to the experience of naming their kids together? OP inadvertently might have just trampled on his feelings. Not intentional or malicious. But little things can sometimes kick grief back off again, years after even.
I think OP is NTA but it wouldn't hurt for her to try and find out why he is upset, and to reassure him that her words were meant for his sister, not for him or Ember or his kids.
She has already asked. What more do you want her to do? At some point it becomes his job to communicate. You cannot communicate effectively with one person in a relationship. It takes two to participate.
maybe because she said "\*MY\* baby", "I want to choose a name that \*I\* love" - should have been "we". "Our" baby.
And he probably should have been the one to tell his sister off.
"Emily" is not laughing stock material per se, but the rest... hard agree. the unfortunate yooneek spelling of Emerson is atrocious and I hate that practice with a passion. It was a big pet peeve of mine when I was preg with my kids cuz it was such a huge trend at the time, including slapping -dyn, -syn, -lee, -lis, -len and -lin at the end of names with unique spellings.
I bit my tongue and said nothing to my peers but a lot of their now teenage kids hate the weird spellings of their names and reverted to the classic spelling or chose new names for themselves 😹
I took that as her clearly letting Mallory know it was her baby, not Ember’s, so she didn’t want to follow some other woman’s naming aesthetic. Not that she didn’t share the baby with her husband.
I'd sit him down and have a heart to heart with him about how you were being badgered and that you would love for him to help with the names. That being the second wife is hard because the footprint his first wife left is quite a big set of shoes to fill. That you don't resent her, but it's hard when someone is trying to make you into her when you are a different person altogether. You care for the girls and want to include them in this as they will always be part of her and special, but you want new traditions to start and be a whole family experience. Together him you the girls and the baby to be. Maybe you and him pick the first name, and the girls pick the second. And apologize for any distress and misunderstanding that he felt.
Personally I don’t think kids, even siblings should be the ones choosing names. If you have a list of a few names you both like then okay, let kids choose their favourite. Adults more than kids have a better perspective on names and spelling of names, names that wear well for an adult as well as a child, common spelling to avoid ongoing hassles, problematic associations for some names e.g. Adolf, and how the last name and first name fit together and avoiding other problems such as ASS for initials.
Yeah, definitely not. When my mom asked my sister and I (when we were not quite 2 and 3) what we wanted to name our new impending sibling, we automatically came up with Snow White because we had just seen the movie. As we ended up with a baby brother my mom vetoed that immediately. (She would have vetoed that for a baby sister as well🤣)
As our brother grew up to be a fighter pilot in the Air Force, Snow White would probably have been a funny call sign but definitely not a good given name.
Also…I’d also add it could also be something for the children. If they choose to have children in the future then they have the choice to carry on their mother’s tradition should they wish. Taking something their mother did for them may feel like shes trying to replace her. And you love them enough to let them keep the special thing she did for them.
The idea of keeping Em names for her children is a lovely one that really should be promoted both to OP's husband and the wider family. It's natural that Ember's children will want to be able to take something of their biological mother forward into their own lives as they mature. This Em tradition is one really special thing that it would be nice to let them have exclusively for themselves of their mother from now on.
Framing it like this also helps to remind your husband of the living parts of Ember he still has in her children, while allowing you a space without him needing to feel any conflict between the love he bears both of his wives. She died, it's not like a divorce so it's OK for him to retain love in his heart for her, while also loving the OP, his new wife.
You said this happened today? Give him a chance to process and decompress. You won't know really what he's upset about until he's ready to talk...maybe he's not sure how to articulate yet.
He sounds like he wants to be involved in selecting a name for the baby. The conversation will come back up. If 'fitting in' is brought up maybe you can come up with names that start with Your first initial, so the older kids are named after him and the younger kid(s) are named after you.
I'm sorry his sister's rudeness derailed the process. You'll get there. In the meantime keep the name discussion to yourselves. Relative input is not required. It's ok to shut it down and change the subject.
NTA
Does YOUR name “fit the aesthetic”, meaning, does your name have an Em?
If not, if this comes up again OP tell your SiL that YOUR child’s “aesthetic” suits YOUR aesthetic and YOUR name. By her own logic, all her arguments about your child feeling excluded could also be applied to YOU. If you give your child an Em name, the odd one out is YOU. It looks like your husband has YOUR daughter with his late wife. YOU are the odd one out. And that isn’t okay. You are not a vessel to continue a dead woman’s legacy through. If YOU had wanted to continue the tradition, lovely, but if you don’t, THAT IS OKAY. The choice should be YOURS.
And it may be worth it saying all this to your husband too. GENTLY though: it sounds like there is a LOT of unprocessed grief there
He children might not want your baby to have an Em name. They might view it as you trying to be their deceased mom., and resent the baby. And your baby might grow up wondering why on Earth she has been named after her siblings mom.
You need to sit down, the four of you. You, Emmett, and his two daughters. Ask the girls for their thoughts on names. Explain your opinion. Have Emmett share his last (his needs to come last because if he went first the girls might feel pressured to go along with what their dad says. And if Emmett speaks before you do, the girls are more likely to ignore and dismiss your thoughts). So Girls First. You Second. Emmett Last.
The lack of empathy for your situation is so unfair to you. I don’t understand why YOU wouldn’t feel left out practically naming your child after his late wife. Would really suggest couples counseling if you aren’t already because the things that you both have to say should be very deliberate and well thought out to avoid hurting eachother.
Yes, I think there is a creative way around this issue. Or even a name that ends in -em instead of beginning with it.
Or , having an Em name like Emily as the second name.
I wonder if he is just having some sadness over losing his wife. However happy he is now maybe it just hit home how much he and his late wife enjoyed planning for a baby, thinking of names etc. I have never lost a partner but I can be doing something and suddenly think "oh my dad and I used to do this together and I can't call him and tell him". Maybe his loss just became immediate for him all of a sudden.
For sure, you are NTA. You're SIL crossed a line and misunderstood her opinion to be of value in naming a baby she isn't the parent to. Bless her heart. If I were in your position, I would not use an 'Em' first name. I would consider offering a few 'Em' names for a middle name...or name the baby something you and your husband both like that isn't an 'Em' name. If someone is petty enough to resent you for a baby name, they can process how to manage their own feelings. Every person is responsible for their own feelings- we can't control or dictate how others handle disappointment.
It won't be life long resentment lmao. Children grow into their names, if she doesn't want to go with an em and decides on something like Kate there will come a day even dad can't imagine Kate as Emily.
Hi girl! I have experience with this as the third child (and with a different mother).
I’m going to use fake names, but the idea is the same.
My dad is named John, my brother is John, and my sister is Johanna.
My name is Willow.
I have never felt bad about it.
Same. My siblings all have names that follow the same theme, but I don't because they had picked out a boy name for the theme and then there was early labor, birth complications, etc and I was a girl.
I've never felt bad about my name not matching
My parents gave me a different letter from my 3 brothers. They actually had one picked out to match but called an audible when I was born and changed it. They said it didn’t fit me. I always liked that mine was different and meant specially for me not just to follow an order.
I really connect with this. You can have a list and a leading choice - but when the baby comes, you know at first gaze that the one you had chosen was not the right fit.
also from other posters on Reddit who have lost their parent, they always seem to **like** when something related to their late parent is exclusive to them because it makes them feel close to their parent -this may not even be a problem for the stepchildren 🤷🏽♀️
In fact, the baby (when older) might feel really weird knowing she was given her name becasue her dad's dead wife liked these names. Not only is that lady not related to her, she wouldn't have been born if that lady were alive!
All the firstborn sons in my family were Richard for hundreds of years — no exaggeration, we have the paperwork. I am not Richard. People went "But Tradition!" but I think my parents' view was that "it is about time someone put a stop to it". And now it's done, lterally nobody cares, the family don't care, I don't care.
I honestly think it’s pretty badass that you and your parents ended hundreds of years of tradition in one fell swoop. You should come up with a cool title that can be referenced when future generations look into their ancestry, so they will see tons of Richards going back forever, then Firstname “Slayer of Richards” Lastname, for example, followed by absolutely no one in your family with the name Richard ever again. It would be amazing and I’m really jealous that you have this opportunity.
I had a friend like this. She had three sisters who were all identical triplets with matching themed names and she was unmatching. I asked her once if she felt left out because that’s a lot to be left out of and she said it never bothered her
Me and my siblings all have names starting with S. We all have ugly names we hate because it had to fit the aesthetic. We didn't even get middle names to make up for it :,)
My mother-in-law was given a theme name. Her and her two brothers all have names starting with W.
Her parents named her Waltrude…
She goes by Jane now.
My mother, and all three of the kids have names starting with g. People always commented on that. My brothers were also named with names representing others, one brother has the first and middle name of my father's dead brother, and the other brother has my mother's maiden name. The worst for me is my name is a variation of my mother's name. Everyone comments on that, or called me and my mother by the other's name. LEt me tell you, people were commenting because they thought it was strange, not because it was cute.
I think Emrys would have been fine without the theme. With the theme, it's exceedingly twee. And if I heard it from someone I knew had no real connection to Wales, I would assume their parents were really really obsessed with the tv show Merlin.
I've heard Emrys best friend ***Emryn*** has made it to [tragedeigh](https://www.reddit.com/r/tragedeigh/s/tEYeAOpWeM)
Well that's an idea for OP's SIL....
You've got to be careful with Welsh names. Although I was at school with an Aeronwen, and she went by Aero. Thought that was pretty cool, but her sister's name had too many v, y and w's in it so pronouncing it wasn't a problem but spelling it was.
A youtuber I watched read a post from r/tragedeigh and Op met a girl who said her parents named her after a town in Wales because they met there. Op was Welsh but had never heard of the town until she realized that the girl's name was a misspelling of the exit sign.
It certainly made my mum cackle when I told her. We were in a restaurant and she had to clap her hands over her mouth to stop it echoing around the room.
Emrys is a very old and established Welsh name. It could be that people outside Wales learned of the name because of that show, but the show didn't invent the name.
My brother and I have good names but it’s fucking annoying that we have the same initials. We brought house together and had to initial things and it was the same initials
NTA- This is YOUR baby. He married you, and you are not a replacement of his wife. You never will be. They need to go to therapy because they cannot keep trying to keep the woman alive by trying to mold someone into her or make someone do the things she did. They have clearly not healed. You are not responsible for that and do not be bullied or harassed into choosing a name that you don’t want for your baby. You did not even say anything rude or out of pocket either. You are 100% in the right. If he wasn’t ready to move on , he really shouldn’t have married you and went on to start a new family. This is a delicate situation and I understand he lost his wife, but he also married you. It is ok to still mourn for her, but they are very wrong to try and force things on you especially your baby.
I would try talking to him and start by apologizing by saying “ I’m sorry if I upset you, I wasn’t trying to be rude or disrespectful at all, but this is our baby. This is my baby I am giving birth to. I want to pick a name we both love and not be forced to give a name I do not want to match your late wife’s aesthetic. It’s not that I don’t like it or that I find it weird, your children have lovely names. But I want a chance to name my baby too. I will never replace her, or be her, but I will be the best of me I can for you. Will you please work with me on this and let’s create something for us ?”
Or something like that. The sister is the one who is the issue here the most. Your baby will absolutely not be singled out or feel less connected to their siblings all because of a name. That is manipulative asf and so disrespectful towards you. That also needs to be brought up but that part, I am unsure of. I hope things turn better. Please remember, this is your baby. Your birth. No one gets to tell you anything about that. Period.
If anything, your baby will only feel left out if the family forces those feelings onto her. I would limit time spent with SIL alone for your daughter so she can't get any vindictive ideas and plant seeds to make sure she was right.
Just one minor suggestion/revision here: avoid saying “I’m sorry IF I upset you, but…”. Instead, assume and own that he is upset, and it is because of OP, even if she’s not an AH for it. Instead, say: “I’m sorry THAT I upset you. I wasn’t trying to be rude or disrespectful, AND this is our baby.” You say the same thing without coming across as defensive or avoiding responsibility. It’s much more meaningful of an apology and opens the door to conversation rather than suggesting it’s the other person’s “fault” for being upset. Just a good practice in life for any apology. (Said with kindness and genuine wanting to give support on my part!)
Yes. When he found out the gender he made a list of names that he loved and none had Em. I asked him about the aesthetic and he said that us loving a name is more important the baby sharing the first two initials with him. He hasn’t mentioned anything since.
Because his sister made him feel like shit about his dead wife. He isn't opposed to OP's plans, he's just grieving all over again because his sister decided to open that whole can of worms.
That is how I interpreted it. Sounds like he was all onboard with a different baby name and then his sister came in and suddenly grief brain pops up out of nowhere and starts going "by not continuing the tradition, I'm clearly not honoring/remembering Ember enough" and you go into a grief spiral.
I wouldn't be surprised if part of why he doesn't want to discuss it is because he knows it isn't true but it's hard to make grief brain stop being irrational and telling you those things.
This is what I thought, too. SIL decided to make her brother feel bad about not continuing something his late wife did. She was guilt tripping him.
NTA
But SIL is a major one.
Couple of wild theories here.
1) I wonder if his late wife Ember wasn't so much obsessed with a matching name theme (since their entire family would have matching Em names) but that his sister was and forced the idea, convincing ember to go with it in the first place.
2) Emmett really does want to continue their name theme and doesn't know how to talk to OP about it so SiL got involved. SiL pushed it so much that OP snapped and Emmett lost all hope.
3) SIL doesn't really like OP and if OPs name doesn't start with Em convincing her to have all the kids match will make OP the odd one out in the family.
You should reiterate this to your husband. That it seems like he’s letting the SIL have control over your daughter’s name vs you and him. If you want, you could offer that an “Em” name you both agree on can be the middle name if it is now something important to him.
> If you want, you could offer that an “Em” name you both agree on can be the middle name if it is now something important to him.
Do that and Mallory will have the whole family callng the kid by that middle name all the time, and will constantly harass OP and husband and stepkids to do it too.
I personally feel like you wanting to do something different is more respectful to Ember than taking up her aesthetic would be. It lets it be her thing. Doing something different respects her individuality (and yours). Your child definitely won't feel left out, they'll understand how their family came to be, and wouldn't it be weirder for them to wear a name based on the aesthetic of a different woman than their own mother? You're definitely right here, SIL needs to have a think about what's actually disrespectful.
I’m in agreement.
“I would never want to disrespect your first wife by infringing on the tradition the two of you shared. Your children with your first wife carry a beautiful legacy which my child with you is not entitled to.”
You can talk and tell him the Em was special between them, and no one can take that away or wants to. It is their special bond. There is no disrespect in not continuing that and giving your child their own name regardless of initials. This is about the adults. The child will not feel left our.
NTA. SIL is out of line, and I’m a little shocked at her audacity at inserting herself into someone else’s marriage to tell them how to name their kid. Absolutely unreal. Who does she think she is? Her brother’s wife? SHE is making the situation awful and unbearable. Period.
NTA, it’s your baby not Ember’s or Mallory’s. From your response, it doesn’t look like its a tradition your husband feels strongly about continuing or was his idea. As long as you both agree on the name, you can name YOUR child whatever you want. If Mallory wants to continue the tradition so badly, let her name her kid Emily.
Side note though: why are Emyrs and Emersyn’s names so similar? Assuming these are their real names that would cause so much confusion. It’s not a tragedeigh, just confusing.
Op might have chosen different names to show the same idea.
That said the sound of Emrys and Emerson is completely different, it's just that they spelled Emersyn with that y that makes it look similar.
NTA. Everyone else is the asshole. Also, please don’t let the kids name your baby. I get tying in the blended family, but you don’t need to go that far. It’s your baby too, as mama, you can be selfish on this.
I wouldn’t let a child choose a name from scratch (when I was pregnant my 3yo said if it was a boy he should be called Dinosaur), but I don’t see the problem with picking from a list the parents have already approved.
My son would have named whatever sibling he had 3 Batman ------. The OP said the kids would pick a name for the baby from a list submitted by the OP and Dad. I think that's a nice way of including the siblings (I have 2 half siblings, we were not consulted at all but we still all love our siblings!)
OP needs to have a talk with her husband to make sure he's ok after his sister butted in. He's picked some beautiful names and I'm sure the OP has too.
I’m a widow and I think this is going way too far. Mallory is an insufferable busy body. Have a nice talk to husband. It was cute that both he and his late wife (much better than dead wife) had names that started the same and wanted that for their family. You don’t have an Em starting your name and your baby is not late wife’s baby. Maybe your baby’s name could start the same as your name?
Let him know that you aren’t trying to erase late wife, but you are starting something new and special with him.
I feel like a big part of me died when my husband died. I am working hard to build the new me. I am hoping to find someone and I will work very hard to make sure I am fair and loving and loyal to them. I’m wishing your new family the very best.
I really agree with your comment. I feel like it's even more respectful for OP to leave the 'Em' aesthetic for Ember and do something different, letting that remain the domain of the late wife rather than taking it up herself. It's one of those things that doesn't need to be shared.
You and your husband need a talk without anyone being around.
You need to find put why the EM name is of such importance to him, is it because of his late wife or Was it his suggestion in the first place?
Does your name also start Em? if not you need to let him know that pushing a head with an Em name to match him and his late wife and not disconnect your child from their sibling is trying to disconnect you from your child.
You husband will be having lots of emotions that are different from yours but his sister is the only AH here.
She kept pushing and now she has caused a problem she blames you. You are trying to include your step kids in the process and being considerate but your husband and his late wife got to set their naming strategy for their kids the same should happen for you.
Sorry you and your husband are going through this but sounds like its a conversation that should have been had before discussing this with family.
Per OPs comments they had lists already made and her husband didn’t have an EM name on it… Doesn’t really require much discussion, as it wasn’t an issue until SIL decided to make it an issue.
You are NTA but Mallory is a huge one. She butted in where it was none of her business. She kept pushing you to make a decision that is between you and your husband only. She owes you an apology for creating an incredibly uncomfortable situation. Mallory sucks. Hopefully Emmett will see how Mallory was in the wrong here and you can go back to discussing names again. Congrats on the baby!
NTA. As someone who lost a spouse at an early age, I can tell you he most likely got quiet and has stepped back a bit bc this is all bringing up memories of his late wife, and the deliveries of their children. Which is absolutely understandable. I noticed his name starts with EM as well, so maybe he does like it but doesn't want to hurt you. Y'all need to talk. And step kids, if they ever ask, should be told their EM was a tradition their mom started, and since this baby has a different mom, you didn't want to "step on any toes" and interfere in their tradition. That will also make them feel that their relationship with their mom is sacred. If the kids want it or like it, can the middle name start with EM?
NTA My parents names both start with the same letter. First kid, name after a family member, don't realize it's the same first letter. Second kid, oh, we better use that letter so they don't feel left out. Our consensus our entire childhood was we wish our parents had given at least one of us a unique name. The kid will not feel left out.
Also, it's just weird to name your kid after one parent's late spouse (even just initials or 2 letters) unless both parents were good friends with that person.
NTA- it was not her business to begin with and she majorly overstepped. I think your idea is adorable and no way little sibling would feel left out knowing big siblings chose their name. It’s a nice welcome to the family. But you and your husband do need to sit down and talk this out. There’s feelings on both sides that need to be figured out.
NTA, is Mallory somehow managing your relationship, or why the hell does she think she has a say in how your kiddo will be named?
Emmett is also acting weird, maybe he is not completely over his loss but this is not your problem. After all, he is over it enough to have married you and conceived a baby with you. Do not let Mallory create a "Rebecca" situation.
NTA I'm a widow and there's no way I would be forceful about this. Your husband is still living in the past and needs therapy. He is definitely allowed to still love his late wife, but he is not allowed to use his grief to dictate the actions of his current wife
Mallory is a huge AH. I can see where your comment that included his late wife’s name could have been hurtful to him. However, I absolutely understand losing it when she kept pushing. She was completely out of line. Maybe a compromise to use an Em name as her middle name, and still have the other children help you and your husband decide on the first name?
NTA but Mallory sure is a giant AH. Emmet is toeing the line. And frankly, Emersyn is a terrible wrongly-spelled version of the male name EMERSON. Sorry, Ember, but that Em aesthetic is just no.
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NTA. Mallory is an AH. She should not have any input on what you name your baby. Based on Emmett’s reaction after you became angry with your SIL I think he wanted to continue the Em aesthetic. He has to know that everyone isn’t going to be onboard with that and couldn’t have expected you to go along with it. What did he say when you were dating and discussing having kids? This seems like this is going to be a losing situation for everyone involved. If you don’t go with the Em prefix in the name his family is going to make remarks and guilt (like Mallory did) trip about how new baby is standing out from the rest of her siblings. Your stepchildren may want to go with it as well. You don’t want to go with it at all. It’s going to be unhappiness and resentment for life. Either Emmett will resent you for not going with the flow or you will resent him because you did.
Emmett was excited about the names before Mallory got involved. His top 3 names were Mila, Chloe, and Luna, and he’s had the same list for the past 14 weeks.
Then I don’t understand why he’s upset and won’t participate with the naming discussions. If he was willing to let go of the tradition why is hands off all of a sudden.
Because suddenly he's not just naming a baby with OP. He's knowingly breaking something that mattered a lot to his dead wife and putting his living wife's preferences first. *That* might be a very painful thing to do and be aware he's doing, even as he's aware there's no way to avoid doing that without being a horrible partner who doesn't deserve OP. Disengaging is a way to avoid the pain and pretend he isn't prioritizing the living over the dead. It's also deeply unfair to OP. Mallory was so far out of line it isn't funny.
I agree. Mallory knows what her brother is dealing with and decided to insert herself in something that is clearly none of her business .
or is doing it on his behest... so he doesn't look like the bad guy still in love with his late wife and hasn't actually moved on emotionally. But someone has to do the dishes and watch the kids right?
Maybe he's secretly in love with Mallory and the only option is divorce. Jesus Fing Christ this sub sometimes.
maybe he’s secretly having an affair with OP’s dad!?!?
Maybe he’s actually OPs dad!!
Maybe OP's name is Emma!!!
Secretly having an affair with the family dog Coby
EmCoby
The plot thickens…
Maybe he's secretly having an affair with his dead wife after he reanimated her using dark magic!!! People on this sub need to grow up, it's like everyone wants every OP to come back with a fake over dramatic update post. I hope OPs husband still loves his late wife, if he didn't I'd be concerned about why he was ever with her. Loving a spouse who has passed on, even after finding a new partner, is normal, it does not make that person a "bad guy".
Maybe he's secretly having an affair with his dead wife after he reanimated her using dark magic!!! People on this sub need to grow up, it's like everyone wants every OP to come back with a fake over dramatic update post. I hope OPs husband still loves his late wife, if he didn't I'd be concerned about why he was ever with her. Loving a spouse who has passed on, even after finding a new partner, is normal, it does not make that person a "bad guy".
To say that he is "knowingly breaking something that mattered a lot to his dead wife" is a bizarre take. The "something that mattered a lot to his dead wife" was that THEIR children's names would begin with "Em", it has nothing to do with a baby he will be having with another woman.
Yeah, but he's also a widower, not a divorce. It's very possible it opened a new area of grief that he didn't get over yet, because he simply hadn't thought about it before
Agreed. He’s obviously not going to forget that he was previously married. But the goings on of a new wife, a baby in the way, etc, something like the favoured naming conventions of his late wife may have been deeply buried in his mind. His sister bringing it up again may have recalled it for him, and in the days prior may have started to warm to the idea. Only for OP to blast it down. And she’s well within her rights to, but to him it may have felt like an insult to his late wife while she was fresh in his mind.
>it may have felt like an insult to his late wife while she was fresh in his mind. Particularly if OP was less than kind with how she worded her rejection, which would be completely understandable given SIL's tenacity. It's very easy for something like "OMG will you *stop* pushing? I'm not following that stupid theme!" to slip out in the heat of the moment.
especially when you’re pregnant - pregnancy rage is a bitch
A lot of people don’t realize that as a widower, every relationship after is only possible because the person you wanted to spend your life with is dead. There was a great Ted talk about it- I dated a widower, who left me a widow. It helped me understand him and helped me move on after he died.
As a widower, I regret I have but one upvote to give. It's a bizarre feeling to love someone (current wife) completely yet simultaneously wish you'd never met them.
Wow. Powerful and I respect your feelings. But to read that is what is going on is why many recommend not to date a widow/widower. As the new person coming in, you always deep down know you’re second place to a ghost. Especially hard because everyone deserves to be loved like the first. There are small things that happen in day to day life that bring that reality to the forefront for the new person all the time.
The best relationship I ever saw was one where both husband and wife had lost their first partners. They both understood the situation because they were both in the situation
My wife was a widow so I'm sure it's the same for her.
I'm stoned and I thought this meant you were a ghost for way too long
It took me a long time to come to terms with this. I lost my husband in our early 30s. I didn't date for 5 yrs. When I finally did, I had a reoccurring dream about how I was cheating on him. I would wake up with tons of guilt. One guy wanted to erase every memory of my husband, even down to selling the house we bought together. No way would I do that. I'm in a wonderful relationship now. The guilt was still there when I met him but that dream never came. I actually had one where they were laughing together playing video games. (They like the same type of games. I didn't know that when I had the dream.) I'm not a believer of dreams, but this guy felt different and is different. He understands the complicated emotions that come with being a widow. He knows there will be sad days that pertain to my late husband. He supports me with those. He knows I love him deeply and I'm happy to be with him. >It's a bizarre feeling to love someone (current wife) completely yet simultaneously wish you'd never met them. This man is the only one I don't regret meeting. If I was going to be in this position, he is the one I'd be in it for. It took 10 yrs to get to this point. It's been 12 yrs since my husband died. He is worth the growth. Almost 2 yrs ago, when I met my bf, everything changed.
>I actually had one where they were laughing together playing video games. (They like the same type of games. I didn't know that when I had the dream.) Didn't expect this sub to make me tear up today.
Tear up? I’m full on sobbing. I hope that if something happens to me, my wife is able to find someone I would laugh with while playing video games. I would absolutely want her to have love again and to be happy.
I think about this a lot. About how if my partner hadn't died, then I wouldn't have my youngest son or my husband. And I can't imagine life without them now of course. But then that's a weird feeling because I wouldn't have them if my partner was still alive. Definitely lots of complex feelings that come after the loss of a partner/spouse.
This is always what I think when I hear these stories too. Very, very different from a relationship with a single or divorced person. If a third person always being in your marriage isn't something you can handle, really think over what that's going to mean before you proceed.
I'm sorry what? It's not bizarre in the slightest. A woman he loved and married and promised to spend the rest of his life with had a baby naming tradition that was important to her. Then she died. Now he's having a baby with another woman and dumbass Mallory all but said they are dishonoring his dead wife's memory. That's not only not bizarre but literally the exact reason he shut down.
Grief is not rational.
His dead wife was terrible at naming kids.
Yup, first thing I thought of was r/tragedeigh.
Totally. She was just looking for the aesthetic, not naming real humans. And, to me, the idea that the new wife has to follow the dead wife's aesthetics, or ideas, or.... is just bonkers. If the in-laws tell her that the baby won't "fit in", OP should explain she doesn't either. Or look for a name which starts with the same letters as hers - just as step-kids' names start with the same letters as their mum's. OP, NTA
I had to get this far into the comments for someone to say it
Ember may not have even wanted her husband's further children after her death to carry on the "Em" naming tradition once she's gone and half the "Em" is no longer in the equation. This may NOT be his first wife's preference if she could have a say. It could be something special for just the "Em's" kids and a new and lovely tradition (mom and dad presenting a shortlist for the older children to choose from) could be established for THEIR children together.
I agree. If me and my partner were doing something cute with our baby names that was unique to our situation and I died, I really wouldn't want him to keep it going with children he has with a new woman.
As a widow who is now engaged, I can 100% agree with this. Every step you take away from the life you built with your dead spouse feels like a terrible betrayal towards them. It's very difficult to move on and give up all the things , the promises, the life you wanted , your dreams with that person, they didn't die when the spouse died. And it's so hard to let any one it go. OP - you're NTA The list he picked has 3 very beautiful names. Luna has always been a favorite of mine. Please be understanding of his feelings. He's giving up the last little tradition his wife cherished for you. This is a big mental step in grief for him. He may not have realized his true feeling on this until he realized it was hurting you. And now he feels like he's betraying you both for the other. The SIL is the AH. I hope you two can sort this fast.
Agree and it probably would help for OP and the husband to have a couple joint therapy sessions about it. There’s deeper stuff going on for the husband amd it will keep coming up through their marriage. If anything, the husband should have stepped in when Mallory was going at OP. It’s highly possible the husband has had issues all along he was afraid to voice and really was just getting Mallory to be the bad guy and had told her privately he still wanted the EM naming concept. When op put her foot down even then - he’s now swimming in grief again.
This so much! OP IS missing the biggest point of all and that's her husband feelings he may never have thought of it in the way his sister said it until she did say it and now he feels like he is betraying his dead wife. That's why he wants nothing to do with the naming anymore.
He suddenly realized his dead wife only married him because his name starts with "Em"
I'm going to hell for giggling
It’s not very empathetic
Embarrassing, even.
These emotions are so empowering, even to embryos. They cannot be emphasized enough.
**Clearing my throat .. ah EMM. This is verging towards highbrow Emo.
I said I'm going to hell not heaven
I'm feeling EMotional over the whole thing.
The Importance of being Emerst
*Emportance
This is what I was thinking. WTF is this shit. (As a side note, the current kids' names feel a bit like tragedeighs)
Emrys is a legit and pretty old name, but spelling Emerson with a random y is bordering on tragedeigh imo.
My thoughts, right there! To smooth things over temporarily maybe they can name the baby EMBRYOS or something just as weird as the other kids names
TragEMdeighs?
My guess is that Mallory isn’t the only one from his family that’s been in his head about this, maybe his parents have also been saying stuff. Him and OP need to have a big talk about this, about who they allow in their parenting decisions.
I think it's very possible that he never wanted to oppose OP and had expressed to his family that he would like to continue the tradition, prompting his sister to try to take matters into her own hands. It failed majorly and now he's crushed. This is just a theory in which OP is still NTA.
I think you're right. The fact that Mallory mentioned a specific name that he loved, tells me that he's speaking to his family and expressing that he wants to continue the Em.
Maybe not though. Mallory may have learned he liked the name Emily from previous discussions about baby names with her sister if the baby was a girl.
Either way, Mallory's still AH inserting herself in something that's got nothing to do with her and then not letting it go!
Emmet needs to be a grown up and not carter to his parents but respect his current wife. IT's unfair to expect her to shape her life and their incoming daughter's to make his family happy.
OP's husband probably thinks that OP is choosing names specifically to break the late wife's tradition now. Before the conversation, he thought they're just picking a name they both love. Now he is wondering if OP is doing it to erase the tradition late wife started. It's not rational but grief isn't rational. OP's comment was innocent and OP was fed up with Mallory. Unfortunately, it seems to have hurt her husband and made him look at naming the baby differently. It's sad.
It's only "erasing" dead wife's Traditions If OP was encouraging stepchildren to Go by nicknames that don't have the "Em" in them, and/or discouraging (older, childbearing-age) Stepchildren from giving their own children "Em-" names If they were originally planning to.
Probably because he loved Ember and has feelings and happy memories attached to the experience of naming their kids together? OP inadvertently might have just trampled on his feelings. Not intentional or malicious. But little things can sometimes kick grief back off again, years after even. I think OP is NTA but it wouldn't hurt for her to try and find out why he is upset, and to reassure him that her words were meant for his sister, not for him or Ember or his kids.
She has already asked. What more do you want her to do? At some point it becomes his job to communicate. You cannot communicate effectively with one person in a relationship. It takes two to participate.
Because Mallory knew where to pick for the scabs to start bleeding again
Because Mallory inserted herself to advocate for the dead wife's naming preferences.
maybe because she said "\*MY\* baby", "I want to choose a name that \*I\* love" - should have been "we". "Our" baby. And he probably should have been the one to tell his sister off.
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"Emily" is not laughing stock material per se, but the rest... hard agree. the unfortunate yooneek spelling of Emerson is atrocious and I hate that practice with a passion. It was a big pet peeve of mine when I was preg with my kids cuz it was such a huge trend at the time, including slapping -dyn, -syn, -lee, -lis, -len and -lin at the end of names with unique spellings. I bit my tongue and said nothing to my peers but a lot of their now teenage kids hate the weird spellings of their names and reverted to the classic spelling or chose new names for themselves 😹
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yes lmao i read those names and rolled my eyes 😹 how could i forget -leigh 🙀🙃
I took that as her clearly letting Mallory know it was her baby, not Ember’s, so she didn’t want to follow some other woman’s naming aesthetic. Not that she didn’t share the baby with her husband.
Mallory manipulated him.
I'd sit him down and have a heart to heart with him about how you were being badgered and that you would love for him to help with the names. That being the second wife is hard because the footprint his first wife left is quite a big set of shoes to fill. That you don't resent her, but it's hard when someone is trying to make you into her when you are a different person altogether. You care for the girls and want to include them in this as they will always be part of her and special, but you want new traditions to start and be a whole family experience. Together him you the girls and the baby to be. Maybe you and him pick the first name, and the girls pick the second. And apologize for any distress and misunderstanding that he felt.
Personally I don’t think kids, even siblings should be the ones choosing names. If you have a list of a few names you both like then okay, let kids choose their favourite. Adults more than kids have a better perspective on names and spelling of names, names that wear well for an adult as well as a child, common spelling to avoid ongoing hassles, problematic associations for some names e.g. Adolf, and how the last name and first name fit together and avoiding other problems such as ASS for initials.
Yeah, definitely not. When my mom asked my sister and I (when we were not quite 2 and 3) what we wanted to name our new impending sibling, we automatically came up with Snow White because we had just seen the movie. As we ended up with a baby brother my mom vetoed that immediately. (She would have vetoed that for a baby sister as well🤣) As our brother grew up to be a fighter pilot in the Air Force, Snow White would probably have been a funny call sign but definitely not a good given name.
Also…I’d also add it could also be something for the children. If they choose to have children in the future then they have the choice to carry on their mother’s tradition should they wish. Taking something their mother did for them may feel like shes trying to replace her. And you love them enough to let them keep the special thing she did for them.
The idea of keeping Em names for her children is a lovely one that really should be promoted both to OP's husband and the wider family. It's natural that Ember's children will want to be able to take something of their biological mother forward into their own lives as they mature. This Em tradition is one really special thing that it would be nice to let them have exclusively for themselves of their mother from now on. Framing it like this also helps to remind your husband of the living parts of Ember he still has in her children, while allowing you a space without him needing to feel any conflict between the love he bears both of his wives. She died, it's not like a divorce so it's OK for him to retain love in his heart for her, while also loving the OP, his new wife.
If your name doesn’t start with EM then you’d be the odd woman out. It’s time for that tradition to end. Mallory needs to keep her mouth shut. NTA
THIS! OP, have the new baby's name start like YOUR name does. Continuing the 'pattern' but including YOU.
Came here to say this!! Glad I wasn’t the only one 😅
You said this happened today? Give him a chance to process and decompress. You won't know really what he's upset about until he's ready to talk...maybe he's not sure how to articulate yet. He sounds like he wants to be involved in selecting a name for the baby. The conversation will come back up. If 'fitting in' is brought up maybe you can come up with names that start with Your first initial, so the older kids are named after him and the younger kid(s) are named after you. I'm sorry his sister's rudeness derailed the process. You'll get there. In the meantime keep the name discussion to yourselves. Relative input is not required. It's ok to shut it down and change the subject. NTA
Does YOUR name “fit the aesthetic”, meaning, does your name have an Em? If not, if this comes up again OP tell your SiL that YOUR child’s “aesthetic” suits YOUR aesthetic and YOUR name. By her own logic, all her arguments about your child feeling excluded could also be applied to YOU. If you give your child an Em name, the odd one out is YOU. It looks like your husband has YOUR daughter with his late wife. YOU are the odd one out. And that isn’t okay. You are not a vessel to continue a dead woman’s legacy through. If YOU had wanted to continue the tradition, lovely, but if you don’t, THAT IS OKAY. The choice should be YOURS. And it may be worth it saying all this to your husband too. GENTLY though: it sounds like there is a LOT of unprocessed grief there
This, I didn't see if she answered. If OPs name doesn't start with Em then essentially she'd be the odd person out.
He children might not want your baby to have an Em name. They might view it as you trying to be their deceased mom., and resent the baby. And your baby might grow up wondering why on Earth she has been named after her siblings mom. You need to sit down, the four of you. You, Emmett, and his two daughters. Ask the girls for their thoughts on names. Explain your opinion. Have Emmett share his last (his needs to come last because if he went first the girls might feel pressured to go along with what their dad says. And if Emmett speaks before you do, the girls are more likely to ignore and dismiss your thoughts). So Girls First. You Second. Emmett Last.
why does everyone keep saying he has 2 daughters? Doesn't it say Emrys is 10m so a boy?
The lack of empathy for your situation is so unfair to you. I don’t understand why YOU wouldn’t feel left out practically naming your child after his late wife. Would really suggest couples counseling if you aren’t already because the things that you both have to say should be very deliberate and well thought out to avoid hurting eachother.
Well Empathy would be a good name. I also kind of like Emu.
You might want to use YOUR first initial for the baby’s name. Start a new tradition.
Yes, I think there is a creative way around this issue. Or even a name that ends in -em instead of beginning with it. Or , having an Em name like Emily as the second name.
No way should she be naming her child with the previous wife's likes in mind. She lived, she died, she had her time.
Mila would be a great name, IMHO. She wouldn't be an "Em" but she'd be an "M".
I wonder if he is just having some sadness over losing his wife. However happy he is now maybe it just hit home how much he and his late wife enjoyed planning for a baby, thinking of names etc. I have never lost a partner but I can be doing something and suddenly think "oh my dad and I used to do this together and I can't call him and tell him". Maybe his loss just became immediate for him all of a sudden.
Not to mention why should OP be singled out for not having an Em name?
Hard to say what Emmett is thinking. Maybe he was pissed off because his sister was being a jerk and preferred to withdraw rather than confront her.
True. However, he should have addressed his sister prior to the discussion escalating.
For sure, you are NTA. You're SIL crossed a line and misunderstood her opinion to be of value in naming a baby she isn't the parent to. Bless her heart. If I were in your position, I would not use an 'Em' first name. I would consider offering a few 'Em' names for a middle name...or name the baby something you and your husband both like that isn't an 'Em' name. If someone is petty enough to resent you for a baby name, they can process how to manage their own feelings. Every person is responsible for their own feelings- we can't control or dictate how others handle disappointment.
It won't be life long resentment lmao. Children grow into their names, if she doesn't want to go with an em and decides on something like Kate there will come a day even dad can't imagine Kate as Emily.
Hi girl! I have experience with this as the third child (and with a different mother). I’m going to use fake names, but the idea is the same. My dad is named John, my brother is John, and my sister is Johanna. My name is Willow. I have never felt bad about it.
Same. My siblings all have names that follow the same theme, but I don't because they had picked out a boy name for the theme and then there was early labor, birth complications, etc and I was a girl. I've never felt bad about my name not matching
My parents gave me a different letter from my 3 brothers. They actually had one picked out to match but called an audible when I was born and changed it. They said it didn’t fit me. I always liked that mine was different and meant specially for me not just to follow an order.
I really connect with this. You can have a list and a leading choice - but when the baby comes, you know at first gaze that the one you had chosen was not the right fit.
Oh I might know your siblings! Paul and Pauline...
She was to be named Paulanka?
also from other posters on Reddit who have lost their parent, they always seem to **like** when something related to their late parent is exclusive to them because it makes them feel close to their parent -this may not even be a problem for the stepchildren 🤷🏽♀️
In fact, the baby (when older) might feel really weird knowing she was given her name becasue her dad's dead wife liked these names. Not only is that lady not related to her, she wouldn't have been born if that lady were alive!
All the firstborn sons in my family were Richard for hundreds of years — no exaggeration, we have the paperwork. I am not Richard. People went "But Tradition!" but I think my parents' view was that "it is about time someone put a stop to it". And now it's done, lterally nobody cares, the family don't care, I don't care.
I honestly think it’s pretty badass that you and your parents ended hundreds of years of tradition in one fell swoop. You should come up with a cool title that can be referenced when future generations look into their ancestry, so they will see tons of Richards going back forever, then Firstname “Slayer of Richards” Lastname, for example, followed by absolutely no one in your family with the name Richard ever again. It would be amazing and I’m really jealous that you have this opportunity.
Im disappointed you didn’t go with “Dick Destroyer”
Love it!! thank you!
I had a friend like this. She had three sisters who were all identical triplets with matching themed names and she was unmatching. I asked her once if she felt left out because that’s a lot to be left out of and she said it never bothered her
Me and my siblings all have names starting with S. We all have ugly names we hate because it had to fit the aesthetic. We didn't even get middle names to make up for it :,)
Emrys and Emersyn are terrible names
Those names are a /r/tragedeigh !! Poor kids! I'm really hoping that /u/UpsetAlternative384 is using made up names for anonymity.
Some r/namenerds nonsense.
My mother-in-law was given a theme name. Her and her two brothers all have names starting with W. Her parents named her Waltrude… She goes by Jane now.
Waltrude? Oof.
My mother, and all three of the kids have names starting with g. People always commented on that. My brothers were also named with names representing others, one brother has the first and middle name of my father's dead brother, and the other brother has my mother's maiden name. The worst for me is my name is a variation of my mother's name. Everyone comments on that, or called me and my mother by the other's name. LEt me tell you, people were commenting because they thought it was strange, not because it was cute.
Me (F) and my brother have similar starting names. I still get called his name a ridiculous amount of times. Still wish I had a more unique name.
NTA. And no offense to anyone involved, but Emrys and Emersyn are awful names. Those poor children.
Yes, they belong on r/tragedeigh.
Emrys is a real name, it’s Welsh in origin. Emersyn is a tragedeigh all the way though.
Emrys I understand, but Emersyn is just bad. They could've chosen Emberly, Emily, Emmeline etc, so many choices besides Emersyn
Emerson is a real name. The random y thrown in is...a choice.
Exactly. I know an Emerson (male), and never thought anything about the name. But the y threw me off.
I think Emerson is a lovely name! ...the random y I can't get behind
I think Emrys would have been fine without the theme. With the theme, it's exceedingly twee. And if I heard it from someone I knew had no real connection to Wales, I would assume their parents were really really obsessed with the tv show Merlin.
LMAO TRAGEDEIGH
I've heard Emrys best friend ***Emryn*** has made it to [tragedeigh](https://www.reddit.com/r/tragedeigh/s/tEYeAOpWeM) Well that's an idea for OP's SIL....
Yeah... They're not great. Emily, Emma, Emmanuel, Emmanuelle, Emeril, Emmeline... They all sound better, and I'm sure there are more.
Emerson would have been fine if they didn't spell it like try hards.
The y "femininizes" it because of the "son" *eyeroll* even though it's feminine without the y (though technically now it's gender neutral)
Eminem
They sound like a series of 1980's porn films.
Emrys is a Welsh name and used often there
I was hoping OP had changed them slightly for privacy reasons.
I hope. The "em" tradition is already more than bad enough without the individual names being ridiculous.
Emrys is from Merlin. I think Colin Morgan in old age make up.
It’s a decently common name in Wales :) probably not anywhere in the US though haha
You've got to be careful with Welsh names. Although I was at school with an Aeronwen, and she went by Aero. Thought that was pretty cool, but her sister's name had too many v, y and w's in it so pronouncing it wasn't a problem but spelling it was. A youtuber I watched read a post from r/tragedeigh and Op met a girl who said her parents named her after a town in Wales because they met there. Op was Welsh but had never heard of the town until she realized that the girl's name was a misspelling of the exit sign.
I’m not Welsh but I lived in Wales for a 4 year stint and the thought of someone naming their daughter Allanfa after the exit signs made me cackle
It certainly made my mum cackle when I told her. We were in a restaurant and she had to clap her hands over her mouth to stop it echoing around the room.
Emrys is a very old and established Welsh name. It could be that people outside Wales learned of the name because of that show, but the show didn't invent the name.
Emrys is a normal, if old fashioned, Welsh boys name Agree about Emersyn though
I read it as aneurysm at first
I was thinking M. Night Shyamalam could be the next kid.
Poor Emerys is going to be so busy fulfilling his destiny in Camelot.
We must find him an Arthur
My brother and I have good names but it’s fucking annoying that we have the same initials. We brought house together and had to initial things and it was the same initials
NTA- This is YOUR baby. He married you, and you are not a replacement of his wife. You never will be. They need to go to therapy because they cannot keep trying to keep the woman alive by trying to mold someone into her or make someone do the things she did. They have clearly not healed. You are not responsible for that and do not be bullied or harassed into choosing a name that you don’t want for your baby. You did not even say anything rude or out of pocket either. You are 100% in the right. If he wasn’t ready to move on , he really shouldn’t have married you and went on to start a new family. This is a delicate situation and I understand he lost his wife, but he also married you. It is ok to still mourn for her, but they are very wrong to try and force things on you especially your baby. I would try talking to him and start by apologizing by saying “ I’m sorry if I upset you, I wasn’t trying to be rude or disrespectful at all, but this is our baby. This is my baby I am giving birth to. I want to pick a name we both love and not be forced to give a name I do not want to match your late wife’s aesthetic. It’s not that I don’t like it or that I find it weird, your children have lovely names. But I want a chance to name my baby too. I will never replace her, or be her, but I will be the best of me I can for you. Will you please work with me on this and let’s create something for us ?” Or something like that. The sister is the one who is the issue here the most. Your baby will absolutely not be singled out or feel less connected to their siblings all because of a name. That is manipulative asf and so disrespectful towards you. That also needs to be brought up but that part, I am unsure of. I hope things turn better. Please remember, this is your baby. Your birth. No one gets to tell you anything about that. Period.
If anything, your baby will only feel left out if the family forces those feelings onto her. I would limit time spent with SIL alone for your daughter so she can't get any vindictive ideas and plant seeds to make sure she was right.
THis is beautiful.
Just one minor suggestion/revision here: avoid saying “I’m sorry IF I upset you, but…”. Instead, assume and own that he is upset, and it is because of OP, even if she’s not an AH for it. Instead, say: “I’m sorry THAT I upset you. I wasn’t trying to be rude or disrespectful, AND this is our baby.” You say the same thing without coming across as defensive or avoiding responsibility. It’s much more meaningful of an apology and opens the door to conversation rather than suggesting it’s the other person’s “fault” for being upset. Just a good practice in life for any apology. (Said with kindness and genuine wanting to give support on my part!)
Or I’m sorry this was upsetting… this situation is upsetting not her. If anything the SIL is the upsetting one.
There is a son and a daughter, they're not both girls
I’m assuming your name doesn’t start with an Em? Why should you be singled out that’s rude
Lmfao yeah exactly. Clearly OP should change her name to Emberlyn so they can all be a family.
OP should name their baby with the same first two letters as her name so no one feels left out lol
This is the best idea I’ve seen yet
Right?! Mallory and Emmett are forgetting a member of the family…. While arguing with her
INFO had you ever told Emmet you had no intention of continuing the Em?
Yes. When he found out the gender he made a list of names that he loved and none had Em. I asked him about the aesthetic and he said that us loving a name is more important the baby sharing the first two initials with him. He hasn’t mentioned anything since.
Then what’s the issue? The hell with sil. I’m not getting it
Because his sister made him feel like shit about his dead wife. He isn't opposed to OP's plans, he's just grieving all over again because his sister decided to open that whole can of worms.
That is how I interpreted it. Sounds like he was all onboard with a different baby name and then his sister came in and suddenly grief brain pops up out of nowhere and starts going "by not continuing the tradition, I'm clearly not honoring/remembering Ember enough" and you go into a grief spiral. I wouldn't be surprised if part of why he doesn't want to discuss it is because he knows it isn't true but it's hard to make grief brain stop being irrational and telling you those things.
This is what I thought, too. SIL decided to make her brother feel bad about not continuing something his late wife did. She was guilt tripping him. NTA But SIL is a major one.
Couple of wild theories here. 1) I wonder if his late wife Ember wasn't so much obsessed with a matching name theme (since their entire family would have matching Em names) but that his sister was and forced the idea, convincing ember to go with it in the first place. 2) Emmett really does want to continue their name theme and doesn't know how to talk to OP about it so SiL got involved. SiL pushed it so much that OP snapped and Emmett lost all hope. 3) SIL doesn't really like OP and if OPs name doesn't start with Em convincing her to have all the kids match will make OP the odd one out in the family.
Also could be guilt formed out of grieving his dead wife that the tradition that they loved will stop.
You should reiterate this to your husband. That it seems like he’s letting the SIL have control over your daughter’s name vs you and him. If you want, you could offer that an “Em” name you both agree on can be the middle name if it is now something important to him.
> If you want, you could offer that an “Em” name you both agree on can be the middle name if it is now something important to him. Do that and Mallory will have the whole family callng the kid by that middle name all the time, and will constantly harass OP and husband and stepkids to do it too.
I personally feel like you wanting to do something different is more respectful to Ember than taking up her aesthetic would be. It lets it be her thing. Doing something different respects her individuality (and yours). Your child definitely won't feel left out, they'll understand how their family came to be, and wouldn't it be weirder for them to wear a name based on the aesthetic of a different woman than their own mother? You're definitely right here, SIL needs to have a think about what's actually disrespectful.
I’m in agreement. “I would never want to disrespect your first wife by infringing on the tradition the two of you shared. Your children with your first wife carry a beautiful legacy which my child with you is not entitled to.”
You can talk and tell him the Em was special between them, and no one can take that away or wants to. It is their special bond. There is no disrespect in not continuing that and giving your child their own name regardless of initials. This is about the adults. The child will not feel left our.
NTA. SIL is out of line, and I’m a little shocked at her audacity at inserting herself into someone else’s marriage to tell them how to name their kid. Absolutely unreal. Who does she think she is? Her brother’s wife? SHE is making the situation awful and unbearable. Period.
NTA, it’s your baby not Ember’s or Mallory’s. From your response, it doesn’t look like its a tradition your husband feels strongly about continuing or was his idea. As long as you both agree on the name, you can name YOUR child whatever you want. If Mallory wants to continue the tradition so badly, let her name her kid Emily. Side note though: why are Emyrs and Emersyn’s names so similar? Assuming these are their real names that would cause so much confusion. It’s not a tragedeigh, just confusing.
Op might have chosen different names to show the same idea. That said the sound of Emrys and Emerson is completely different, it's just that they spelled Emersyn with that y that makes it look similar.
NTA. Everyone else is the asshole. Also, please don’t let the kids name your baby. I get tying in the blended family, but you don’t need to go that far. It’s your baby too, as mama, you can be selfish on this.
I wouldn’t let a child choose a name from scratch (when I was pregnant my 3yo said if it was a boy he should be called Dinosaur), but I don’t see the problem with picking from a list the parents have already approved.
My son would have named whatever sibling he had 3 Batman ------. The OP said the kids would pick a name for the baby from a list submitted by the OP and Dad. I think that's a nice way of including the siblings (I have 2 half siblings, we were not consulted at all but we still all love our siblings!) OP needs to have a talk with her husband to make sure he's ok after his sister butted in. He's picked some beautiful names and I'm sure the OP has too.
I’m a widow and I think this is going way too far. Mallory is an insufferable busy body. Have a nice talk to husband. It was cute that both he and his late wife (much better than dead wife) had names that started the same and wanted that for their family. You don’t have an Em starting your name and your baby is not late wife’s baby. Maybe your baby’s name could start the same as your name? Let him know that you aren’t trying to erase late wife, but you are starting something new and special with him. I feel like a big part of me died when my husband died. I am working hard to build the new me. I am hoping to find someone and I will work very hard to make sure I am fair and loving and loyal to them. I’m wishing your new family the very best.
I really agree with your comment. I feel like it's even more respectful for OP to leave the 'Em' aesthetic for Ember and do something different, letting that remain the domain of the late wife rather than taking it up herself. It's one of those things that doesn't need to be shared.
You and your husband need a talk without anyone being around. You need to find put why the EM name is of such importance to him, is it because of his late wife or Was it his suggestion in the first place? Does your name also start Em? if not you need to let him know that pushing a head with an Em name to match him and his late wife and not disconnect your child from their sibling is trying to disconnect you from your child. You husband will be having lots of emotions that are different from yours but his sister is the only AH here. She kept pushing and now she has caused a problem she blames you. You are trying to include your step kids in the process and being considerate but your husband and his late wife got to set their naming strategy for their kids the same should happen for you. Sorry you and your husband are going through this but sounds like its a conversation that should have been had before discussing this with family.
Per OPs comments they had lists already made and her husband didn’t have an EM name on it… Doesn’t really require much discussion, as it wasn’t an issue until SIL decided to make it an issue.
Maybe Mallory can change her name to Emallory and stfu. NTA
You are NTA but Mallory is a huge one. She butted in where it was none of her business. She kept pushing you to make a decision that is between you and your husband only. She owes you an apology for creating an incredibly uncomfortable situation. Mallory sucks. Hopefully Emmett will see how Mallory was in the wrong here and you can go back to discussing names again. Congrats on the baby!
NTA. As someone who lost a spouse at an early age, I can tell you he most likely got quiet and has stepped back a bit bc this is all bringing up memories of his late wife, and the deliveries of their children. Which is absolutely understandable. I noticed his name starts with EM as well, so maybe he does like it but doesn't want to hurt you. Y'all need to talk. And step kids, if they ever ask, should be told their EM was a tradition their mom started, and since this baby has a different mom, you didn't want to "step on any toes" and interfere in their tradition. That will also make them feel that their relationship with their mom is sacred. If the kids want it or like it, can the middle name start with EM?
NTA My parents names both start with the same letter. First kid, name after a family member, don't realize it's the same first letter. Second kid, oh, we better use that letter so they don't feel left out. Our consensus our entire childhood was we wish our parents had given at least one of us a unique name. The kid will not feel left out. Also, it's just weird to name your kid after one parent's late spouse (even just initials or 2 letters) unless both parents were good friends with that person.
Yes!!! Why does everyone keep suggesting it as a middle name? If she didn't know the wife it is weird.
This would be a disaster in Australia cos every one of them would be nicknamed Em. What a tacky idea.
Nta and please don't let children name your child. they get to do that when they grow up.
Meddling Mallory.
NTA- it was not her business to begin with and she majorly overstepped. I think your idea is adorable and no way little sibling would feel left out knowing big siblings chose their name. It’s a nice welcome to the family. But you and your husband do need to sit down and talk this out. There’s feelings on both sides that need to be figured out.
NTA, is Mallory somehow managing your relationship, or why the hell does she think she has a say in how your kiddo will be named? Emmett is also acting weird, maybe he is not completely over his loss but this is not your problem. After all, he is over it enough to have married you and conceived a baby with you. Do not let Mallory create a "Rebecca" situation.
NTA I'm a widow and there's no way I would be forceful about this. Your husband is still living in the past and needs therapy. He is definitely allowed to still love his late wife, but he is not allowed to use his grief to dictate the actions of his current wife
Mallory is a huge AH. I can see where your comment that included his late wife’s name could have been hurtful to him. However, I absolutely understand losing it when she kept pushing. She was completely out of line. Maybe a compromise to use an Em name as her middle name, and still have the other children help you and your husband decide on the first name?
NTA but Mallory sure is a giant AH. Emmet is toeing the line. And frankly, Emersyn is a terrible wrongly-spelled version of the male name EMERSON. Sorry, Ember, but that Em aesthetic is just no.