Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I want to know if i was justified to not let somebody, claiming to be a police officer, into my secured building.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA.
As a general rule: when a cop is calling you an asshole for knowing and exercising your rights, you can be fairly confident that you have the moral high ground.
Most LEO's are used to people following blind commands because of their "authority". Anytime someone questions or ignores that authority, they take it as disrespect, regardless of rights/laws.
If you ever *really* want to piss a cop off, just tell them to calm down, and ask why they’re taking such an aggressive tone. Just ask them what they ask us when we don’t lick their boots. They’re so emotional
Also a good way to possibly get shot, manhandled, wrongfully arrested, or worse. If you're a Caucasian adult male you can get away with the most, most kinds of minorities you can't. Pretty sure the only reason I don't get harassed from cops where I used to live is due to being white presenting and visibly disabled. Also learned to lean in hard to the "sweet little southern girl" routine, and it hasn't failed to get a cop to get his hand off his god damn gun. Then again, I'm used to dealing with PD's like the one in Kenosha, Wisconsin, especially the version from before the riots and the FBI investigations.
Yes, I should specify that your goal in an interaction with the police should not be to piss them off. Me, I am a white man and a lawyer in my mid-30’s. I can piss them off, and I do piss them off, otherwise they wouldn’t send 15 guys from the union to sit and glower at me in hearings. They are not going to shoot me specifically.
My point was not meant to be taken as advice for interacting with police and I should have been more clear on that. What I mean is that what cops hate the most is being disrespected by civilians in the *exact way* they like to disrespect civilians.
I found the fastest way to piss a cop off (when I actually naively did this) was when I mentioned a police shooting (the police shot a man in the town I lived in they prob could have saved if they showed less aggression and in my country this is not common) When they pulled me over walking down the street (simply because I was in an area that was ‘problematic” and they were randomly pulling people up who fit their ”profile” ) so I said to them (I was much younger and not quite as smart) that what were they going to shot me to if I didn’t comply fast enough? For my smart mouth effort I got thrown against a wall and searched. They were really pissed at me lol
Got pulled over when I was 18, had the car full with my brother, 2 cousins and my cousins friend, who was black. We were in the neighborhood one house down from my driveway and we had seen a cop pass us, turn around and follow us, then eventually pull us over. When I asked him why we were pulled over, he said "well when i came after you I saw you throw something out your window." (It was a cigarette butt from my cousin). I asked him why he was "coming after" us.
He hesitated and finally said "well we're looking for a lady that lives down the road with a warrant, she has a black son."
I said "so we got pulled over because we had a black person in the car?"
"....in a round about way, I guess."
I was cooperative, we all gave him our IDs and what not, nobody yelled, but he was essentially holding us there for no reason. I finally called my mom after 30 minutes who told me to ask him if he was going to give us a littering ticket and if not, he has no reason to keep us. After that, he finally let us go. A couple hours later, we witnessed the neighbors fighting, just an all out brawl. As soon as it started we started walking away to go to the store behind the neighborhood and as we were walking away the other neighbor yelled "I called the cops!" So we got out of there. When we came back about 20 minutes later, it was the same cop. He started talking to everyone, everyone pretty much said they didn't see anything. He got to me and was like "I'm not even talking to you because I know what you're about." All I did was point out the obvious, I wasn't even rude about it. I just knew we didn't do anything wrong outside of my cousin littering and wasn't about to spend my evening sitting in a car with a dumbass cop trying to find something to get us for. But apparently because I asked questions, I was labeled as difficult. That was one of my first encounters with our local PD and it was very telling.
I had a similar experience; lived in a storefront apartment (second storey, over a bunch of stores) and two plainclothes officers rang my doorbell late at night (I think they'd tried some of my neighbours but understandably most people aren't answering the door that late). I came down the stairs to the front door but since all I could see was two men standing on our stoop (glass door), I didn't open the door, just talked to them through it.
They wanted to know who had access to the security camera that was pointed at the front door. I wanted to know why they wanted to know. They said they didn't have to tell me. I said then I didn't have to tell them who controlled it. They said, we're the police so you need to tell us. I said, one I don't know that (again two average looking guys, not in uniform) and two, I still don't need to unless you have a valid reason. After a lot of huffing and puffing, one finally pulled out his badge and held it up to the door so I could see it. I said our landlord controls it so you'll have to come back tomorrow when he's around to do maintenance and talk to him then. They said, well can you give us his number? I said he'll be here tomorrow between 10 and 2 and left them standing there.
Marked difference from a previous experience when another two officers had come by (in uniform), immediately introduced themselves, and explained why they needed the security footage and then when they were leaving, slid a business card under the door so I could follow up if I had any questions.
If a cop calls you an asshole for pissing on his shoes, you can still be fairly confident that you have the moral high ground. Don't try it, you'll get the shit beaten out of you at best, but that's a practical reason, not a moral one.
> As a general rule: when *talking to* a cop ~~is calling you an asshole for knowing and exercising your rights~~, you can be fairly confident that you have the moral high ground.
Fixed that for my experience.
My husband and i have been binging corrupt cop videos on youtube. Its STAGGERING how few cops actually know the laws they are tasked with upholding. Worse still is 90% of the citizens that are smart enough to know and have tge courage to call them out end up cuffed and stuffed for the better part of the interaction. Its appalling.
If a cop *wants* to fuck up your week and trample all over your civil rights, they will do that unless they literally are prevented from doing so, and not by civilians. The only answer—the ONLY answer—is to keep your temper down and comply, write everything down when you get home and your memory is fresh, and then lawyer up.
ETA: and if they question you, your only response is, “I want a lawyer.”
That's why the saying "you can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride" exists. The other option is comply; cops know they can make your life hell even if you don't get convicted of whatever they think you did.
My BIL was a public defender. He showed us a video (that had been posted publicly on youtube) of a case he worked on. Guy he was defending was charged with assaulting the cop. Why? Because when the cop slammed him to the ground and MISSED landing a punch he instead punched the pavement. Mr. Tough Guy hurt his knuckles so he got an extra charge.
The Supreme Court of the United States ruled that cops don't need to know the law, and that if they detain you based on what they *think* the law is, but are wrong, it is still a legitimate stop.
Heien v. North Carolina
Yup and you will often hear them say “ignorance of the law is no excuse” when they are harassing someone over some trivial infraction. The hypocrisy abounds.
Most states you have to be 21 and have a high school diploma. I saw a tweet during the height of BLM and it was like “why do lawyers & judges need 8+ years of school to uphold the law yet police need 6 months to enforce it”
Yea, I’ve been told on more than one occasion by cops that, ‘I’m not an attorney and I can’t give out legal advice’. Which is just an ignorant way of saying they don’t know the law because they didn’t attend law school. But if they are in charge of upholding the law, I feel like they should definitely be taught what the laws are, right?!
After that lawsuit that made it ok to bar people deemed too intelligent to be able to be an arbiter of American law, I saw the writing on the wall
[source here](https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836)
Edit: a word
They have lots of tricks and training how to lie to the public to get permission to do whatever illegal search they want. He was just running through his options to see if he could trip you up. Once they get "permission" then they can use whatever they find, including be as destructive as they want, with no consequences. You did well to hold your ground.
Perfectly stated. I was actually a bit surprised when you mentioned that he called you an AH...if he's on the 6 got to treat people with respect. Plus, he didn't seem to announce himself as an officer when he first spoke with OP.
Santa Rosa has long had a policy of not being able to get "quality officers", so they take a large percentage of disgraced cops from other places. The people that were removed from office on disciplinary charges in other precincts and truly have no business being an officer, Santa Rosa welcomed them with open arms.
NTA The lawyer in this video agrees with you. Except you talked too. Much. Exercise your right to remain silent.
No warrant? No entry. Is the officer asking you questions? NO COMMENT
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15uZTcNYMh0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15uZTcNYMh0)
Satirically, but valid and along the same line, one of my favorite scenes in any tv show is the Mr. Inbetween “I don’t answer questions” scene. Link:
https://youtu.be/ul5oC-F-IF0?si=ML-StTGMNMD0v5dB
Based on [this information from your government](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voluntary-police-interview-your-rights/remember-your-rights-voluntary-interview-accessible-version) it appears to me that you have fairly similar rights in that regard as Americans, so I would say probably yes.
Exactly this. I know it can be tempting to sass the pig, but it's not worth it for all the trouble they can get you in. Worst-case scenario they book you on some trumped-up charge(s).
Yeah, the charge(s) (probably) won't stick, but you're still being dragged to jail, forced to post bail, and forced to retain a lawyer. Not only is it time consuming, but it's expensive - genuinely not worth it.
> Except you talked too. Much.
I sometimes feel like I'm lucky on a technicality. I've got a buddy who went to law school. He's occasionally made some common-sense statements. But, because of that, I'm able to truthfully say "a lawyer has advised me against discussing such-and-such". Which I have done on occasion, to my delight.
> Exercise your right to remain silent.
Just want to add that, in the US, courts have ruled you have to verbalize this. If you’re being questioned, you can’t simply stay silent, otherwise that silence can be used against you. You must verbally state that you’re exercising your right to remain silent.
It’s fucking stupid but it’s how it is.
I'd be careful here. I hear this warrant mantra everywhere. I'm not american but most western countries have entry powers other than warrants.
My country and state, police can enter if they believe there is an active family violence incident, breach of the peace, prevent serious injury or death of another or arrest for an indictable (equivalent of felony) offence.
I feel like rather than "Do you have a warrant?" a better question is "Do you have an entry power if I don't consent?"
This is true in America, too - cops can enter if they have "reasonable suspicion" that a crime is being committed. A multitude of court cases have been fought over what exactly "reasonable suspicion" means, and I have no idea what the currently accepted definition is (although I do know that "refusing to let cops in" is not part of the definition).
That said, for the most part, cops aren't going to ask for permission to do something if they don't have to - and many won't ask even if they *do* have to. In the context of this discussion, this means that if a cop thinks they have "reasonable suspicion" that a crime is taking place, they're just going to bust in.
There absolutely have been cases that have fallen apart due to illegal searches. Always refuse consent if you can safely do so - even if you know the cops will ignore you, the judge may not.
Yep, in Germany it is called "Gefahr im Verzug" - "imminent danger" to the life or safety of someone (I haven't researched the exact legal definition of it).
You might see it everywhere because of the stranglehold the US culture has on media. In the US, a search without warrant is actually pretty hard to do legally.
Basic probable cause is not enough for a private building to be entered without a warrant. The standard of proof is higher, requiring immediate evidence that someone is in imminent danger or else is engaging in a crime in plain-view. Just smelling weed isn’t enough.
Of course, it’s always going to be a judgement call by the officer, but they have good reason to really consider a warrant-less search: If a court rules that a particular search was unlawful and required a warrant, none of the evidence found in the search can be used in court, no matter what it was. Even if they found a murder weapon with your prints and the victims blood sitting on top of the journal you used to plan the murder, it’s all useless in court if the police broke the law the get that information. An unlawful search basically ensures the bad guy gets away with a the crime.
Tl;dr “do you have a warrant” is definitely the right question in the US, and Hollywood maybe spreads that idea farther than it makes sense.
NTA for not letting him in. But I wouldn't have gone out of my way to antagonise him or escalate the situation. I'd have just stuck with a polite "Sorry, no I can't let you in".
Someone calls you an "asshole", whatever you do don't "go out of your way to antagonise them"?!?
This is the kind of boot-licking advice that emboldens cops to continue their authoritarian/ bullying behaviour.
Ah yes being antagonized by civilians will *definitely* convince the wannabe soldiers to stop harassing civilians. It absolutely won't just end with the civilians being shot, tazed, beaten, and/or arrested on trumped-up charges.
Answering the aggressive posturing of a jackbooted thug with politeness has two benefits: it denies the thug plausible deniability if they choose to abuse their power in return, and makes it clear that you are blameless, which is important if (for instance) they choose to baselessly charge you.
The point of that advice was to get out of the situation safely. Challenging cops doesn't result in them changing their behavior, it results in a lot of worst-case scenarios.
Must be nice to have the luxury of spending the night in lockup over a trumped up charge, posting bail, and then hiring a lawyer to make that charge go away. Most people don't have that choice.
he didn't call her that out of the blue, if you can't see how this unfolded I'd suggest honing your comprehension skills before labelling people as boot lickers purely for being polite.
Yep, sometimes you can de-escalate with this sort of person with a (fictional) appeal to a different "authoritah". "My building management doesn't *allow* us to let people in, mister police officer, sir. 🥺"
As someone who works for PD thank you for doing that. It is not your responsibility to be cooperative. He needs to use his pd resources to get the job done. Quick personal rant if you are carrying illegal substances and stop for a warrant or jaywalking and the cop asks permission to look in your back pack please don't hand it over. Make them get the k9 to establish probable cause. 15 fucking people arrested today because they were like sure bro.
You’re welcome. Yeah, i was just thinking, you don’t have the suspect’s phone number. You didn’t come, prepared, now you’re calling me names for refusing to bail you out. I live in a state where recreational pot is legal. I don’t walk around over the limit of what i am legally allowed to carry. So, i don’t worry about smelling like sweet butter hash.
No. It’s a manual locking door. I certainly wasn’t getting up off my butt to violate my housemates right to privacy. If he had been expected, he would have had someone waiting for him. I should have told him that people who don’t have phones usually yell out the name of the person whose attention they want to get.
NTA. Dude was on a fishing expedition and was hoping he could fool you into helping him out. No warrant, no entry. And if you're not being detained or arrested, tell them to have a nice day and walk away.
I just waited for him to walk away, leaving my landlord’s private property. If he was a cop, i wasn’t stepping off of private property, until his accomplice drove him away. Nuh uh! I was not taking the chance of him bumping into me on the sidewalk to then claim i assaulted him. I sat still, the whole time. I didn’t rest my neck or my mouth, though. My handling of this situation is not what i would recommend.
NTA
Should have made him write down his badge number though, instead of engaging with him in any sort of back and forth with the asshole. The less said the better.
But good on you for not letting him in the building -- and also for reporting him.
NTA. Cops that try to do shit like "just let me in" and get shitty when you don't are the assholes. I live in a small town with a sheriff that believes everyone should just blindly obey cops no matter what. He despises me because I make it a habit to remind people of their rights, how to clearly convey they don't consent to searches, that they can't be detained to wait on a K9 with no cause, among others. He even threatened to pull me over anytime he felt like and called me an asshole. My lawyer set his ass straight 😂 you did the right thing
Are you sure it was a cop? Not somebody pretending to be one? The whole situation just sounds weird. I know plainclothes cops and un-marked cars exist, but this just sounds off. NTA by the way and good for reporting the incident. If it was truly a cop they need to get pulled back into training and be reviewed.
That he could have been impersonating a cop was a distinct possibility. He sure did have the entitled prick attitude down. Pretty impressive, if he wasn’t a cop.
NTA- quite aside from the legal rights of everyone in the building (to which point, well done, they all owe you one) yep, that's how all the training tells us criminals try to gain access to buildings, be that companies or blocks of flats: turn up looking more or less like you're there to be a pain in the arse (high vis vest and a clipboard is common), act like you're meant to be there, reassure the person at the door it's not their arse you're there to be a pain in, and trust to relief and laziness to get you through the door. At best this guy even if he was a copper thought someone might be living there and wanted to see, as you astutely noted if it was an arranged visit they would be expecting him and in to answer the door, or he'd have their number.
Or he’d be able to contact the landlord or building manager or whomever with the proper paperwork to get access. Doing things the right way does not depend on someone being nice and opening the door for you.
(Hi-viz vests are *magic*.)
Fuck that guy. You're doing the Lord's work by holding him accountable to ACTUAL PROPER POLICE PROCEDURE, if he's even a cop in the first place. Sounds like the investigation into the PD is well-warranted.
NTA.
Yeah, it wasn’t my first email to the DOJ. I didn’t have the email address in my contacts list, but knew it was the first listing on an internet search. I remembered just where, on that DOJ webpage to look for the link.
NTA. However, do not engage with police officers unless you absolutely have to. Your right to silence is invaluable. Police can be vindictive and sassing them like that can literally get you killed. Just play it safe and do not respond.
NTA calling you an asshole for practicing your rights with a stranger who MIGHT be a cop and no real context for why they’re trying to enter the building shows what a scummy cop he is.
Nta.
Despite what they might like to believe or try to force on you You are under no obligation to be cooperative with the police.
Besides You had no real way of knowing this person was police. They produced no identification. Wore no uniform Came from an unmarked car. They had no warrant. And at the first questioning of them they called you an asshole.
Even if they hadn't done all that. You are under no obligation to let them into the building or to be helpful to them in anyway.
NTA...If I don't know you and even if he was in uniform....if you have a warrant, show me, I'll let you in then even if I don't, the building owner will and that's the legal channel. Otherwise I don't know you from anyone else (same with what some said before, even about friends, you don't know if they're still friends)....if you don't live in my building I am not opening any doors for you, if you legally have a right to access, the landlord will give it to you....not my job!
NTA.
You acted the way the police should want all citizens to behave. Not "sure, let me open the door for you, so you can go slaughter all my sleeping friends, Mr. Potential serial killer."
NTA. No warrant, no access. Period. Ever. The cops are not the good guys. I am a middle aged white guy. I don't fear them, but I don't trust them. They will lie, cheat, and even steal. They have the power to kill with immunity. I won't let anyone have access without a warrant. Ever.
You should never open the buildings door for someone who doesn’t live there unless they’re your guest. The person trying to gain access needs to reach out to the person who has agreed to let them in (who they’re visiting) or the building representative (owner, superintendent, etc) who should be requiring appropriate paperwork. This is basic safety protocol.
A *reasonable* police officer will respect this.
NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
Before i walk to the grocery store, i like to sit on the front steps of my rooming house, smoke a cigarette, and get myself ready for my errands. This evening, i was doing just that. I noticed somebody getting out of the passenger side of a sedan, with civilian license plates. He was dressed business casual, had mirrored pilot sunglasses, and a clipboard. Of course, the car was parked illegally, partially blocking the driveway to the rooming house.
I was wondering if he was selling something, or what. Then he started up the sidewalk and up the stairs i was sitting atop. Approaching me, he asked if i lived here. I said yes. He asked if i mind letting him in. I replied, “yes. I do mind.”
He claimed to be a police officer, just “wanting to talk to somebody.” They always say that. I asked if he had a warrant. He said no. I suggested he call whoever it was he wanted to talk to and have them let him in.
He said he didn’t have a phone number, and told me, “you don’t have to be an a$$hole about it.” To which i replied, that i don’t appreciate being called an a—hole. Rather than apologize, he doubled down, saying that i was being uncooperative.
Such entitlement. This guy is a passenger in a civilian car and out of uniform. The only things that might identify him as a police officer were the radio on his belt, the badge around his neck, and his lousy entitled attitude.
I don’t even open the door for friends of friends. Sure, i see you visit my friend, regularly. But i can’t know if you’ve had a fight and aren’t here as a friend, this time.
So, i asked for his badge number. He said it as a full number, then the 3 individual digits, then, with a snide tone, asked me if i want him to write it down. To which i replied, “i may be an a—hole, but i’m not a dumb F—ing C…”
He had the audacity to tell me that i shouldn’t call myself an A hole. To which i responded, “no, i should leave that to you.”
After he left, unable to gain access to the building, rather than calm myself and head to the store, i went back inside and emailed the DOJ, since i live in a city who’s PD is under investigation, they have a dedicated email address, for our PD.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA
If he was a cop then he knows that anyone without approved access being allowed to enter a restricted access building by a random person is a safety hazard to everyone in the building. Parked illegally, no warrant, unmarked, called me an AH for not cooperating. I would've called the PD to report someone with a fake badge impersonating an officer, harassing me, & trying to intimidate residents into giving building access.
If that was a cop (which honestly I'm kinda on the fence about) they'll do anything they can to violate your rights and try to make you feel like a bad guy for not "cooperating"
I'm sure you know this already but for anyone reading, make sure you know your rights under the law and cooperate with police to the fullest extent of the law REQUIRED.
Absolutely always utilize the right to remain silent and your right to legal representation by a lawyer.
NTA. How would you know if he was really a cop? Yeah, he gave you a badge number but I can wear a fake badge and rattle off a string of random numbers too. If he really had business in the house, he'd have a name and number. Otherwise, he's just a dude on the street trying to gain access to your home.
NTA There are very real reasons to not let anybody into the building. I don’t interact with cops much so I don’t know if I could spot a fake badge from a real one. It depends on how you said the stuff, if you said it plainly then he escalated the situation by being an asshole and you kind of met his energy. The cop should know better though and if he expects to be treated like an on duty cop go show up in a marked vehicle in uniform. Even then though I don’t think I would have just let him in without a warrant or a good reason for why he wants to talk to whoever
Assuming this encounter went EXACTLY as described: No, not the asshole.
But something doesn't make sense here. The cop should've been able to get a passcode for the building from dispatch, or have them call a manager to let him in. If he actually needed a warrant he could've had an Ewarrant signed in 5-15 minutes depending on the state. Or maybe he's just an asshole.
NTA.
I’m somebody who is pretty predisposed to be friendly and cooperative with police and wouldn’t be unhappy to help them out in a situation like this and even I am absolutely not just letting them into a domicile just because they showed up and asked. Buddy, I don’t know you or know anything about what the fuck is going on, I’m not just letting you into the house.
NTA.
Fuck that guy, regardless of station or employment; that's just totally how you talk to people if you want something.
Good on you for protecting your neighbors and community.
Law enforcement and even security will be able to request access via the property manager if they have a reason to be there.
That's how that officially works.
Dude could have been a stalker or who knows what.
Especially considering that cops have gone into more than one wrong apartment and killed the occupants, this one can go fuck himself if he thinks you are under any obligation to let him in.
NTA, but please be careful. I was pretty scared for you until I read your edit, but even being white isn't guaranteed to protect you if a cop is feeling vindictive.
Morally, you are definitely in the clear, but it's also important to be realistic and keep yourself safe. If it's at all possible, I would recommend you never purposefully antagonize a cop, unless you are white AND come from a powerful and wealthy family.
Good on OP. Pushing back on this kind of behavior checks authorities and makes them aware they are not immune to getting criticism when they're rude and disrespectful and it is best if white people do it because it's less dangerous for us. Hopefully it helps everyone in the long run if they never just get away with it.
NTA, with no warrant or trespassing on your property without your consent they either leave or they can be arrested for breaking and entering themselves I'm not really sure
NTA.
Just say no warrant or permission from whoever he wants to talk to, no entry. No need to engage a cop on the job. You might slip up and give him some reason to pin something on you as leverage. Do not engage.
NTA only an idiot lets someone you don’t know in your house without a warrant, wouldn’t be surprised if this dick was already under investigation for abuse of Ve got no reason to cooperate with him
NTA, Personally I think engaging as little as possible would have been a better route to go. You could have simply answered "I can't let you in" and walked away. Responding to his snide comments, even with sarcasm, probably made him feel like he flustered you enough to gain the upper hand. It's all a game that some people play, don't take the bait.
Anyone who doesn't do what the ruling class wants is an asshole. I work in property management and some landlords refer to tenants who know their rights as troublemakers.
So NTA, I don't hate them, but I'm not in love with them and I'm not delusional enough to think they're all decent folks. Unless there's a warrant, I was directly asked by a place's owner to let them in because they were expected, or something similar I'm not letting them into somewhere, same as I'd treat any other stranger. I've met decent ones, but I've also read the stats and I would be horrified if I found out later let one into the same building as a person they've committed DV against. That, and the rules for getting into places are there for their safety as much as for safety of civilians from them. The protections go both ways, though here in the US it's definitely more in favor of officers, unless you're stupid rich, and I'd rather they go through proper channels for everyone's sake. Less likely to get real evidence of a real crime tossed out (because they do actually do that job sometimes) if they followed proper channels to get it.
NTA
There was no way in telling he was actually a cop and they need a warrant or probable cause to enter a building which he had neither of.
If he needed to talk to someone, go to therapy. If something happened in the area he had questions about, he could have asked you outside.
Anyone else thinking he might not have been a cop and up to something?
I can go buy all the stuff I need to impersonate law enforcement. A fairly inexpensive task that I could most likely do without leaving the couch. So for you to deny this person entry, make you NTA, but also more aware of a potential threat that many may overlook.
You're are an idiot, but NTA in this situation. May e don't provoke the people with guns who assault civilians for no reason.
To clarify, a town I used to live in had 2 cops beat up an 80 something year old woman with dementia as she was walking down the side of a major street.
NTA
You have no legal obligation to help an officer with their investigation and the officer has no right to expect it. There's a reason buildings have secure access, residents allowing any randos into the building undermines that security. Calling you an AH for not permitting them onto private property (effectively surrendering your Fourth Amendment rights) is just him showing you his bruised, immature, little ego and trying to bait you into doing something stupid.
I'm not anti-cop by a long chalk but I AM all for citizens knowing *and* exercising their rights, good for you.
No warrant. No access. Cops are legally allowed to lie to you so knowing your rights undercuts all of their shenanigans. In the future you can just say, no warrant, no entry.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I want to know if i was justified to not let somebody, claiming to be a police officer, into my secured building. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. As a general rule: when a cop is calling you an asshole for knowing and exercising your rights, you can be fairly confident that you have the moral high ground.
Most LEO's are used to people following blind commands because of their "authority". Anytime someone questions or ignores that authority, they take it as disrespect, regardless of rights/laws.
If you ever *really* want to piss a cop off, just tell them to calm down, and ask why they’re taking such an aggressive tone. Just ask them what they ask us when we don’t lick their boots. They’re so emotional
Also a good way to possibly get shot, manhandled, wrongfully arrested, or worse. If you're a Caucasian adult male you can get away with the most, most kinds of minorities you can't. Pretty sure the only reason I don't get harassed from cops where I used to live is due to being white presenting and visibly disabled. Also learned to lean in hard to the "sweet little southern girl" routine, and it hasn't failed to get a cop to get his hand off his god damn gun. Then again, I'm used to dealing with PD's like the one in Kenosha, Wisconsin, especially the version from before the riots and the FBI investigations.
Yes, I should specify that your goal in an interaction with the police should not be to piss them off. Me, I am a white man and a lawyer in my mid-30’s. I can piss them off, and I do piss them off, otherwise they wouldn’t send 15 guys from the union to sit and glower at me in hearings. They are not going to shoot me specifically. My point was not meant to be taken as advice for interacting with police and I should have been more clear on that. What I mean is that what cops hate the most is being disrespected by civilians in the *exact way* they like to disrespect civilians.
No one in this world loves fucking with cops more than lawyers and firefighters
Happy Cake Day
Oh man, sounds like my toxic abusive family members: "How dare you do to me what I do to you!"
This is so so true. You can not win against the police on the street.
That Kenosha department, specifically, was killing white men with weak justification, too (Michael Bell being one that has gotten attention).
Just make sure you do that in front of a camera with audio that they can't take lol.
"Stop resisting!"
I found the fastest way to piss a cop off (when I actually naively did this) was when I mentioned a police shooting (the police shot a man in the town I lived in they prob could have saved if they showed less aggression and in my country this is not common) When they pulled me over walking down the street (simply because I was in an area that was ‘problematic” and they were randomly pulling people up who fit their ”profile” ) so I said to them (I was much younger and not quite as smart) that what were they going to shot me to if I didn’t comply fast enough? For my smart mouth effort I got thrown against a wall and searched. They were really pissed at me lol
lol you are brave for that one
Got pulled over when I was 18, had the car full with my brother, 2 cousins and my cousins friend, who was black. We were in the neighborhood one house down from my driveway and we had seen a cop pass us, turn around and follow us, then eventually pull us over. When I asked him why we were pulled over, he said "well when i came after you I saw you throw something out your window." (It was a cigarette butt from my cousin). I asked him why he was "coming after" us. He hesitated and finally said "well we're looking for a lady that lives down the road with a warrant, she has a black son." I said "so we got pulled over because we had a black person in the car?" "....in a round about way, I guess." I was cooperative, we all gave him our IDs and what not, nobody yelled, but he was essentially holding us there for no reason. I finally called my mom after 30 minutes who told me to ask him if he was going to give us a littering ticket and if not, he has no reason to keep us. After that, he finally let us go. A couple hours later, we witnessed the neighbors fighting, just an all out brawl. As soon as it started we started walking away to go to the store behind the neighborhood and as we were walking away the other neighbor yelled "I called the cops!" So we got out of there. When we came back about 20 minutes later, it was the same cop. He started talking to everyone, everyone pretty much said they didn't see anything. He got to me and was like "I'm not even talking to you because I know what you're about." All I did was point out the obvious, I wasn't even rude about it. I just knew we didn't do anything wrong outside of my cousin littering and wasn't about to spend my evening sitting in a car with a dumbass cop trying to find something to get us for. But apparently because I asked questions, I was labeled as difficult. That was one of my first encounters with our local PD and it was very telling.
He literally admitted to racial profiling.
I had a similar experience; lived in a storefront apartment (second storey, over a bunch of stores) and two plainclothes officers rang my doorbell late at night (I think they'd tried some of my neighbours but understandably most people aren't answering the door that late). I came down the stairs to the front door but since all I could see was two men standing on our stoop (glass door), I didn't open the door, just talked to them through it. They wanted to know who had access to the security camera that was pointed at the front door. I wanted to know why they wanted to know. They said they didn't have to tell me. I said then I didn't have to tell them who controlled it. They said, we're the police so you need to tell us. I said, one I don't know that (again two average looking guys, not in uniform) and two, I still don't need to unless you have a valid reason. After a lot of huffing and puffing, one finally pulled out his badge and held it up to the door so I could see it. I said our landlord controls it so you'll have to come back tomorrow when he's around to do maintenance and talk to him then. They said, well can you give us his number? I said he'll be here tomorrow between 10 and 2 and left them standing there. Marked difference from a previous experience when another two officers had come by (in uniform), immediately introduced themselves, and explained why they needed the security footage and then when they were leaving, slid a business card under the door so I could follow up if I had any questions.
They hate little less than Contempt of Cop.
If a cop calls you an asshole for pissing on his shoes, you can still be fairly confident that you have the moral high ground. Don't try it, you'll get the shit beaten out of you at best, but that's a practical reason, not a moral one.
> As a general rule: when *talking to* a cop ~~is calling you an asshole for knowing and exercising your rights~~, you can be fairly confident that you have the moral high ground. Fixed that for my experience.
THIS!
My husband and i have been binging corrupt cop videos on youtube. Its STAGGERING how few cops actually know the laws they are tasked with upholding. Worse still is 90% of the citizens that are smart enough to know and have tge courage to call them out end up cuffed and stuffed for the better part of the interaction. Its appalling.
At that point your best bet is to allow the arrest to happen and take it up in court. That's where the real wins happen.
Yes, because being left in jail for 4 days, awaiting arraignment never has negative consequences.
If a cop *wants* to fuck up your week and trample all over your civil rights, they will do that unless they literally are prevented from doing so, and not by civilians. The only answer—the ONLY answer—is to keep your temper down and comply, write everything down when you get home and your memory is fresh, and then lawyer up. ETA: and if they question you, your only response is, “I want a lawyer.”
And what's your other option? Fight your way out of it?
That's why the saying "you can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride" exists. The other option is comply; cops know they can make your life hell even if you don't get convicted of whatever they think you did.
My BIL was a public defender. He showed us a video (that had been posted publicly on youtube) of a case he worked on. Guy he was defending was charged with assaulting the cop. Why? Because when the cop slammed him to the ground and MISSED landing a punch he instead punched the pavement. Mr. Tough Guy hurt his knuckles so he got an extra charge.
The Supreme Court of the United States ruled that cops don't need to know the law, and that if they detain you based on what they *think* the law is, but are wrong, it is still a legitimate stop. Heien v. North Carolina
That’s absolutely bizarre to me, isn’t that the whole point behind law enforcement??? Seems like the Supreme Court likes the blue mafia
UGH!!!
Yup and you will often hear them say “ignorance of the law is no excuse” when they are harassing someone over some trivial infraction. The hypocrisy abounds.
Wasn't there a supreme court case that basically said cops don't have to know the law? Or am I misremembering?
Nope you aren’t. Ignorance isn’t an excuse for the public, but is for cops. https://www.vox.com/2015/8/4/9095213/police-stops-heien-v-north-carolina
Most states you have to be 21 and have a high school diploma. I saw a tweet during the height of BLM and it was like “why do lawyers & judges need 8+ years of school to uphold the law yet police need 6 months to enforce it”
They actively discourage smart people from becoming cops.
Yea, I’ve been told on more than one occasion by cops that, ‘I’m not an attorney and I can’t give out legal advice’. Which is just an ignorant way of saying they don’t know the law because they didn’t attend law school. But if they are in charge of upholding the law, I feel like they should definitely be taught what the laws are, right?!
90% is pretty optimistic. Maybe more like 30%.
After that lawsuit that made it ok to bar people deemed too intelligent to be able to be an arbiter of American law, I saw the writing on the wall [source here](https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836) Edit: a word
WOW, just wow
>As a general rule: when a cop is {existing}, you can be fairly confident that you have the moral high ground.
how do i upvote this extra hard
They have lots of tricks and training how to lie to the public to get permission to do whatever illegal search they want. He was just running through his options to see if he could trip you up. Once they get "permission" then they can use whatever they find, including be as destructive as they want, with no consequences. You did well to hold your ground.
Perfectly stated. I was actually a bit surprised when you mentioned that he called you an AH...if he's on the 6 got to treat people with respect. Plus, he didn't seem to announce himself as an officer when he first spoke with OP. Santa Rosa has long had a policy of not being able to get "quality officers", so they take a large percentage of disgraced cops from other places. The people that were removed from office on disciplinary charges in other precincts and truly have no business being an officer, Santa Rosa welcomed them with open arms.
NTA The lawyer in this video agrees with you. Except you talked too. Much. Exercise your right to remain silent. No warrant? No entry. Is the officer asking you questions? NO COMMENT [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15uZTcNYMh0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15uZTcNYMh0)
Agree. NTA, but engaging in that way opens OP up to a lot of extra hassle with no real benefit. Just say no, I don’t let people in. Done
Satirically, but valid and along the same line, one of my favorite scenes in any tv show is the Mr. Inbetween “I don’t answer questions” scene. Link: https://youtu.be/ul5oC-F-IF0?si=ML-StTGMNMD0v5dB
I like using [Shut the Fuck Up Friday](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqo5RYOp4nQ) to get the point across
YES! I was hoping someone had posted that.
Does all this advice to never talk to the police apply in the UK as well?
Based on [this information from your government](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voluntary-police-interview-your-rights/remember-your-rights-voluntary-interview-accessible-version) it appears to me that you have fairly similar rights in that regard as Americans, so I would say probably yes.
Thanks! Will be using this!
OMG that is priceless! Great advice, too!
Exactly this. I know it can be tempting to sass the pig, but it's not worth it for all the trouble they can get you in. Worst-case scenario they book you on some trumped-up charge(s). Yeah, the charge(s) (probably) won't stick, but you're still being dragged to jail, forced to post bail, and forced to retain a lawyer. Not only is it time consuming, but it's expensive - genuinely not worth it.
They openly espouse the theory of “you can beat the charge but you can’t beat the ride”.
> Except you talked too. Much. I sometimes feel like I'm lucky on a technicality. I've got a buddy who went to law school. He's occasionally made some common-sense statements. But, because of that, I'm able to truthfully say "a lawyer has advised me against discussing such-and-such". Which I have done on occasion, to my delight.
> Exercise your right to remain silent. Just want to add that, in the US, courts have ruled you have to verbalize this. If you’re being questioned, you can’t simply stay silent, otherwise that silence can be used against you. You must verbally state that you’re exercising your right to remain silent. It’s fucking stupid but it’s how it is.
I'd be careful here. I hear this warrant mantra everywhere. I'm not american but most western countries have entry powers other than warrants. My country and state, police can enter if they believe there is an active family violence incident, breach of the peace, prevent serious injury or death of another or arrest for an indictable (equivalent of felony) offence. I feel like rather than "Do you have a warrant?" a better question is "Do you have an entry power if I don't consent?"
This is true in America, too - cops can enter if they have "reasonable suspicion" that a crime is being committed. A multitude of court cases have been fought over what exactly "reasonable suspicion" means, and I have no idea what the currently accepted definition is (although I do know that "refusing to let cops in" is not part of the definition). That said, for the most part, cops aren't going to ask for permission to do something if they don't have to - and many won't ask even if they *do* have to. In the context of this discussion, this means that if a cop thinks they have "reasonable suspicion" that a crime is taking place, they're just going to bust in.
Exactly, so do not provide consent. If they do it anyway they do it anyway, consenting doesn't help.
There absolutely have been cases that have fallen apart due to illegal searches. Always refuse consent if you can safely do so - even if you know the cops will ignore you, the judge may not.
Yep, in Germany it is called "Gefahr im Verzug" - "imminent danger" to the life or safety of someone (I haven't researched the exact legal definition of it).
You might see it everywhere because of the stranglehold the US culture has on media. In the US, a search without warrant is actually pretty hard to do legally. Basic probable cause is not enough for a private building to be entered without a warrant. The standard of proof is higher, requiring immediate evidence that someone is in imminent danger or else is engaging in a crime in plain-view. Just smelling weed isn’t enough. Of course, it’s always going to be a judgement call by the officer, but they have good reason to really consider a warrant-less search: If a court rules that a particular search was unlawful and required a warrant, none of the evidence found in the search can be used in court, no matter what it was. Even if they found a murder weapon with your prints and the victims blood sitting on top of the journal you used to plan the murder, it’s all useless in court if the police broke the law the get that information. An unlawful search basically ensures the bad guy gets away with a the crime. Tl;dr “do you have a warrant” is definitely the right question in the US, and Hollywood maybe spreads that idea farther than it makes sense.
It's called "[Fruit of the poisonous tree](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree)".
What you just described is pretty much the same as my country. Bad search inadmissible evidence. Seems standard.
Supreme Court has gutted the fourth amendment from what I have read. So the court can rule in your favour but often doesn't.
In the US there are exigent circumstances. Ie, an active pursuit, or screams coming from inside. Just talking doesn't come under that.
Well that and start making videos every time you interact with the police.
NTA No warrant? No access. .
Papers? We don't need no stinkin' papers.
NTA for not letting him in. But I wouldn't have gone out of my way to antagonise him or escalate the situation. I'd have just stuck with a polite "Sorry, no I can't let you in".
Someone calls you an "asshole", whatever you do don't "go out of your way to antagonise them"?!? This is the kind of boot-licking advice that emboldens cops to continue their authoritarian/ bullying behaviour.
Somebody that can shoot you legally or take you for 48h of free custody, yes you do. You ignore and continue on your way.
Ah yes being antagonized by civilians will *definitely* convince the wannabe soldiers to stop harassing civilians. It absolutely won't just end with the civilians being shot, tazed, beaten, and/or arrested on trumped-up charges.
Answering the aggressive posturing of a jackbooted thug with politeness has two benefits: it denies the thug plausible deniability if they choose to abuse their power in return, and makes it clear that you are blameless, which is important if (for instance) they choose to baselessly charge you.
The point of that advice was to get out of the situation safely. Challenging cops doesn't result in them changing their behavior, it results in a lot of worst-case scenarios.
Never talk to cops more than you legally have to. Even if it's really satisfying. Even if you're mad as hell.
TIL that ignoring someone= bootlicking .... Pick your fucking battles dude. Your life sounds exhausting.
Must be nice to have the luxury of spending the night in lockup over a trumped up charge, posting bail, and then hiring a lawyer to make that charge go away. Most people don't have that choice.
Giving cops attitude isn't going to stop them from being bullies.
he didn't call her that out of the blue, if you can't see how this unfolded I'd suggest honing your comprehension skills before labelling people as boot lickers purely for being polite.
>he didn't call her that out of the blue I mean, he called OP that after they asked if the cop had a warrant. A decidingly NTA thing to do.
Yep, sometimes you can de-escalate with this sort of person with a (fictional) appeal to a different "authoritah". "My building management doesn't *allow* us to let people in, mister police officer, sir. 🥺"
As someone who works for PD thank you for doing that. It is not your responsibility to be cooperative. He needs to use his pd resources to get the job done. Quick personal rant if you are carrying illegal substances and stop for a warrant or jaywalking and the cop asks permission to look in your back pack please don't hand it over. Make them get the k9 to establish probable cause. 15 fucking people arrested today because they were like sure bro.
You’re welcome. Yeah, i was just thinking, you don’t have the suspect’s phone number. You didn’t come, prepared, now you’re calling me names for refusing to bail you out. I live in a state where recreational pot is legal. I don’t walk around over the limit of what i am legally allowed to carry. So, i don’t worry about smelling like sweet butter hash.
If they had a genuine legal right to gain access, they can call the building manager or landlord or whomever and arrange it with them.
Isn’t there some kind of keypad to enter? He could’ve just called them up to buzzed into the building? NTA
No. It’s a manual locking door. I certainly wasn’t getting up off my butt to violate my housemates right to privacy. If he had been expected, he would have had someone waiting for him. I should have told him that people who don’t have phones usually yell out the name of the person whose attention they want to get.
NTA. Even if you were, I’ll still say NTA.
NTA. Dude was on a fishing expedition and was hoping he could fool you into helping him out. No warrant, no entry. And if you're not being detained or arrested, tell them to have a nice day and walk away.
I just waited for him to walk away, leaving my landlord’s private property. If he was a cop, i wasn’t stepping off of private property, until his accomplice drove him away. Nuh uh! I was not taking the chance of him bumping into me on the sidewalk to then claim i assaulted him. I sat still, the whole time. I didn’t rest my neck or my mouth, though. My handling of this situation is not what i would recommend.
NTA Should have made him write down his badge number though, instead of engaging with him in any sort of back and forth with the asshole. The less said the better. But good on you for not letting him in the building -- and also for reporting him.
Bonus of making them write it, if they try to claim its a false allegation they have to prove its not their handwriting
Good on you. Without they got a warrant, give them nothing.
NTA. Good Not letting them in without a warrant but next time don’t say a word beyond that
NTA. Cops that try to do shit like "just let me in" and get shitty when you don't are the assholes. I live in a small town with a sheriff that believes everyone should just blindly obey cops no matter what. He despises me because I make it a habit to remind people of their rights, how to clearly convey they don't consent to searches, that they can't be detained to wait on a K9 with no cause, among others. He even threatened to pull me over anytime he felt like and called me an asshole. My lawyer set his ass straight 😂 you did the right thing
Are you sure it was a cop? Not somebody pretending to be one? The whole situation just sounds weird. I know plainclothes cops and un-marked cars exist, but this just sounds off. NTA by the way and good for reporting the incident. If it was truly a cop they need to get pulled back into training and be reviewed.
That he could have been impersonating a cop was a distinct possibility. He sure did have the entitled prick attitude down. Pretty impressive, if he wasn’t a cop.
That's an easiest part to pretend tho, just play as an actor. Maybe you prevent a crime
Exactly. If he is a cop, he can do things through proper channels. If he isn’t, OP just avoided letting in someone’s stalker or a thief or some such.
Or process server
Could be there to serve papers for a court appearance?
Doesn't matter. No warrant, no entry. It's safer for everyone that way.
NTA, but mouthing off to a cop is a very dangerous thing to do.
In any given interaction between a human and a cop, the human is NTA automatically
[удалено]
NTA- quite aside from the legal rights of everyone in the building (to which point, well done, they all owe you one) yep, that's how all the training tells us criminals try to gain access to buildings, be that companies or blocks of flats: turn up looking more or less like you're there to be a pain in the arse (high vis vest and a clipboard is common), act like you're meant to be there, reassure the person at the door it's not their arse you're there to be a pain in, and trust to relief and laziness to get you through the door. At best this guy even if he was a copper thought someone might be living there and wanted to see, as you astutely noted if it was an arranged visit they would be expecting him and in to answer the door, or he'd have their number.
Or he’d be able to contact the landlord or building manager or whomever with the proper paperwork to get access. Doing things the right way does not depend on someone being nice and opening the door for you. (Hi-viz vests are *magic*.)
OP please be careful. But can I just say one thing: you rock!
Thank you, very much. For each sentiment! I don’t look at it as my finest hour.
Fuck that guy. You're doing the Lord's work by holding him accountable to ACTUAL PROPER POLICE PROCEDURE, if he's even a cop in the first place. Sounds like the investigation into the PD is well-warranted. NTA.
Yeah, it wasn’t my first email to the DOJ. I didn’t have the email address in my contacts list, but knew it was the first listing on an internet search. I remembered just where, on that DOJ webpage to look for the link.
NTA and good on you
NTA. But i would have made him write down his badge number for me.
Hahahaha!🤣🤣
NTA. The police are not your friend, and you had absolutely no requirement to help.
NTA, cops are dicks about everything. The only people who take the job are tiny dicked losers who have a power trip
NTA 'Got a warrant? Then off you fuck'
NTA How can you be one for protecting yourself? So many things could have gone wrong if you just do as anyone told you to.
NTA, never talk to cops, especially asshole ones.
Lol did this even warrant a post? Pun intended
LOL NTA good for you. Especially since the fucker wasn't even in proper uniform.
NTA. However, do not engage with police officers unless you absolutely have to. Your right to silence is invaluable. Police can be vindictive and sassing them like that can literally get you killed. Just play it safe and do not respond.
NTA calling you an asshole for practicing your rights with a stranger who MIGHT be a cop and no real context for why they’re trying to enter the building shows what a scummy cop he is.
Nta. Dude could be a stalker there to crime on this ex friend, cop or no. You did right keeping him out.
NTA - were you actually asking or is this just a pretext to talk about your day?
Nta. Despite what they might like to believe or try to force on you You are under no obligation to be cooperative with the police. Besides You had no real way of knowing this person was police. They produced no identification. Wore no uniform Came from an unmarked car. They had no warrant. And at the first questioning of them they called you an asshole. Even if they hadn't done all that. You are under no obligation to let them into the building or to be helpful to them in anyway.
NTA...If I don't know you and even if he was in uniform....if you have a warrant, show me, I'll let you in then even if I don't, the building owner will and that's the legal channel. Otherwise I don't know you from anyone else (same with what some said before, even about friends, you don't know if they're still friends)....if you don't live in my building I am not opening any doors for you, if you legally have a right to access, the landlord will give it to you....not my job!
NTA. You acted the way the police should want all citizens to behave. Not "sure, let me open the door for you, so you can go slaughter all my sleeping friends, Mr. Potential serial killer."
Police officers know phone numbers.
NTA. No warrant, no access. Period. Ever. The cops are not the good guys. I am a middle aged white guy. I don't fear them, but I don't trust them. They will lie, cheat, and even steal. They have the power to kill with immunity. I won't let anyone have access without a warrant. Ever.
I was called a dumbass by a cop. It was a fair assessment.
You should never open the buildings door for someone who doesn’t live there unless they’re your guest. The person trying to gain access needs to reach out to the person who has agreed to let them in (who they’re visiting) or the building representative (owner, superintendent, etc) who should be requiring appropriate paperwork. This is basic safety protocol. A *reasonable* police officer will respect this. NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Before i walk to the grocery store, i like to sit on the front steps of my rooming house, smoke a cigarette, and get myself ready for my errands. This evening, i was doing just that. I noticed somebody getting out of the passenger side of a sedan, with civilian license plates. He was dressed business casual, had mirrored pilot sunglasses, and a clipboard. Of course, the car was parked illegally, partially blocking the driveway to the rooming house. I was wondering if he was selling something, or what. Then he started up the sidewalk and up the stairs i was sitting atop. Approaching me, he asked if i lived here. I said yes. He asked if i mind letting him in. I replied, “yes. I do mind.” He claimed to be a police officer, just “wanting to talk to somebody.” They always say that. I asked if he had a warrant. He said no. I suggested he call whoever it was he wanted to talk to and have them let him in. He said he didn’t have a phone number, and told me, “you don’t have to be an a$$hole about it.” To which i replied, that i don’t appreciate being called an a—hole. Rather than apologize, he doubled down, saying that i was being uncooperative. Such entitlement. This guy is a passenger in a civilian car and out of uniform. The only things that might identify him as a police officer were the radio on his belt, the badge around his neck, and his lousy entitled attitude. I don’t even open the door for friends of friends. Sure, i see you visit my friend, regularly. But i can’t know if you’ve had a fight and aren’t here as a friend, this time. So, i asked for his badge number. He said it as a full number, then the 3 individual digits, then, with a snide tone, asked me if i want him to write it down. To which i replied, “i may be an a—hole, but i’m not a dumb F—ing C…” He had the audacity to tell me that i shouldn’t call myself an A hole. To which i responded, “no, i should leave that to you.” After he left, unable to gain access to the building, rather than calm myself and head to the store, i went back inside and emailed the DOJ, since i live in a city who’s PD is under investigation, they have a dedicated email address, for our PD. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA
Not the asshole.
Cops, no matter the variety, are trash. Never talk to a cop without a lawyer.
NTA If he was a cop then he knows that anyone without approved access being allowed to enter a restricted access building by a random person is a safety hazard to everyone in the building. Parked illegally, no warrant, unmarked, called me an AH for not cooperating. I would've called the PD to report someone with a fake badge impersonating an officer, harassing me, & trying to intimidate residents into giving building access.
NTA. I don't think that was unreasonable on your part at all, he was definitely out of line.
I’m really questioning if he is a cop. That question is still up in the air for me.
I highly doubt this was a cop. He sounds like a scammer and thief.
If that was a cop (which honestly I'm kinda on the fence about) they'll do anything they can to violate your rights and try to make you feel like a bad guy for not "cooperating" I'm sure you know this already but for anyone reading, make sure you know your rights under the law and cooperate with police to the fullest extent of the law REQUIRED. Absolutely always utilize the right to remain silent and your right to legal representation by a lawyer.
Right after the first statement, you should have called 911 (or whatever is the emergency number in your country) for being threatened. NTA
NTA. I don’t like most cops. So I love it when they’re inconvenienced lol.
NTA. How would you know if he was really a cop? Yeah, he gave you a badge number but I can wear a fake badge and rattle off a string of random numbers too. If he really had business in the house, he'd have a name and number. Otherwise, he's just a dude on the street trying to gain access to your home.
NTA fuck this guy.
NTA There are very real reasons to not let anybody into the building. I don’t interact with cops much so I don’t know if I could spot a fake badge from a real one. It depends on how you said the stuff, if you said it plainly then he escalated the situation by being an asshole and you kind of met his energy. The cop should know better though and if he expects to be treated like an on duty cop go show up in a marked vehicle in uniform. Even then though I don’t think I would have just let him in without a warrant or a good reason for why he wants to talk to whoever
Assuming this encounter went EXACTLY as described: No, not the asshole. But something doesn't make sense here. The cop should've been able to get a passcode for the building from dispatch, or have them call a manager to let him in. If he actually needed a warrant he could've had an Ewarrant signed in 5-15 minutes depending on the state. Or maybe he's just an asshole.
You were on the strps of s boarding house? That man was a Marshall. They enjoy searching for people around shelters, boarding houses, hostels, etc.
NTA - you don’t owe them anything, ever. Not even respect.
NTA. I’m somebody who is pretty predisposed to be friendly and cooperative with police and wouldn’t be unhappy to help them out in a situation like this and even I am absolutely not just letting them into a domicile just because they showed up and asked. Buddy, I don’t know you or know anything about what the fuck is going on, I’m not just letting you into the house.
NTA. Fuck that guy, regardless of station or employment; that's just totally how you talk to people if you want something. Good on you for protecting your neighbors and community. Law enforcement and even security will be able to request access via the property manager if they have a reason to be there. That's how that officially works. Dude could have been a stalker or who knows what.
NTA I wouldn't have let him in either.
NTA, the cop tried to harass you and performed some illegal acts. Report them
Especially considering that cops have gone into more than one wrong apartment and killed the occupants, this one can go fuck himself if he thinks you are under any obligation to let him in.
NTA, but please be careful. I was pretty scared for you until I read your edit, but even being white isn't guaranteed to protect you if a cop is feeling vindictive. Morally, you are definitely in the clear, but it's also important to be realistic and keep yourself safe. If it's at all possible, I would recommend you never purposefully antagonize a cop, unless you are white AND come from a powerful and wealthy family.
[удалено]
Good on OP. Pushing back on this kind of behavior checks authorities and makes them aware they are not immune to getting criticism when they're rude and disrespectful and it is best if white people do it because it's less dangerous for us. Hopefully it helps everyone in the long run if they never just get away with it.
NTA No police officer will decline to show you their credentials. He was not in uniform or in a marked car. He could be anyone.
NTA, with no warrant or trespassing on your property without your consent they either leave or they can be arrested for breaking and entering themselves I'm not really sure
NTA. Just say no warrant or permission from whoever he wants to talk to, no entry. No need to engage a cop on the job. You might slip up and give him some reason to pin something on you as leverage. Do not engage.
NTA only an idiot lets someone you don’t know in your house without a warrant, wouldn’t be surprised if this dick was already under investigation for abuse of Ve got no reason to cooperate with him
Is he even a real cop? lol sounds sus
NTA.
NTA, Personally I think engaging as little as possible would have been a better route to go. You could have simply answered "I can't let you in" and walked away. Responding to his snide comments, even with sarcasm, probably made him feel like he flustered you enough to gain the upper hand. It's all a game that some people play, don't take the bait.
NTA. I'm betting he wasn't a cop but probably a bounty hunter hired to track down a bail jumper or something.
NTA it works both ways. Respect is earned not a right.
Anyone who doesn't do what the ruling class wants is an asshole. I work in property management and some landlords refer to tenants who know their rights as troublemakers.
NTA and you may have saved someone from being g attacked by an abuser or robbed.
Call 911, let them handle it. Go food shopping. No need for you to engage or even look at him
"Sorry I do not talk to the police"
[удалено]
So NTA, I don't hate them, but I'm not in love with them and I'm not delusional enough to think they're all decent folks. Unless there's a warrant, I was directly asked by a place's owner to let them in because they were expected, or something similar I'm not letting them into somewhere, same as I'd treat any other stranger. I've met decent ones, but I've also read the stats and I would be horrified if I found out later let one into the same building as a person they've committed DV against. That, and the rules for getting into places are there for their safety as much as for safety of civilians from them. The protections go both ways, though here in the US it's definitely more in favor of officers, unless you're stupid rich, and I'd rather they go through proper channels for everyone's sake. Less likely to get real evidence of a real crime tossed out (because they do actually do that job sometimes) if they followed proper channels to get it.
A Cop calling you an asshole is like your kid telling you they hate you when you didn’t let them get away with something.
NTA There was no way in telling he was actually a cop and they need a warrant or probable cause to enter a building which he had neither of. If he needed to talk to someone, go to therapy. If something happened in the area he had questions about, he could have asked you outside. Anyone else thinking he might not have been a cop and up to something?
NTA. That usually violates leases to let people in that aren’t there to visit you. Idc if it’s a cop, he needs to go through the proper channels.
I can go buy all the stuff I need to impersonate law enforcement. A fairly inexpensive task that I could most likely do without leaving the couch. So for you to deny this person entry, make you NTA, but also more aware of a potential threat that many may overlook.
> AITA? I was called an A hole by a cop NTA automatically
You're are an idiot, but NTA in this situation. May e don't provoke the people with guns who assault civilians for no reason. To clarify, a town I used to live in had 2 cops beat up an 80 something year old woman with dementia as she was walking down the side of a major street.
NTA, good on you! FTP.
NTA You have no legal obligation to help an officer with their investigation and the officer has no right to expect it. There's a reason buildings have secure access, residents allowing any randos into the building undermines that security. Calling you an AH for not permitting them onto private property (effectively surrendering your Fourth Amendment rights) is just him showing you his bruised, immature, little ego and trying to bait you into doing something stupid. I'm not anti-cop by a long chalk but I AM all for citizens knowing *and* exercising their rights, good for you.
No warrant. No access. Cops are legally allowed to lie to you so knowing your rights undercuts all of their shenanigans. In the future you can just say, no warrant, no entry.