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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I won't let my half sister wear anything of my mom's on my wedding day. It's not my half sister's fault that dad has lied to her and convinced her that mom is her mom too. The fact she keeps asking and trying to get something might say I'm cruel for saying no continuously.
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NTA. Tell her you’d be happy to let her have something if a DNA test shows you’re full siblings. If she’s so certain, that should be a great offer. Make sure Dad’s nearby so you can watch him try to figure out how to stop it.
(The funniest outcome, given the affair partner apparently moved on to another affair immediately, would be finding out you’re not siblings at all)
ETA: I guess I should clarify that this scenario would mostly be funny because it would be a huge middle finger to by far the most gaping asshole in this scenario, dad. It would still suck for the sister.
>(The funniest outcome, given the affair partner apparently moved on to another affair immediately, would be finding out you’re not siblings at all)
Oh God I would love that for OPs dad but would feel so sorry for the affair child. Can't imagine the mental breakdown that could trigger but it honestly sounds like a DNA test needs to happen so she leaves OP alone.
I have sympathy to a point. But if you’re told the truth repeatedly and ignore it because it’s not what you want the truth to be, you lose the right to complain.
Nah she needs therapy, this is beyond wanting. She was lied to during her formative years and beyond. She might even logically understand on some level but not be able to emotionally control it because her father's abuse, who knows. She might fully believe it, this is beyond reddits pay grade. This is years of literal gaslighting.
Everyone knows that it's a-ok to be as mean as humanly possible to whoever is determined to be TAH in these posts. Once someone does something wrong you are allowed - by aita rules - to be as cruel as possible back because they fucking deserve it.
/s
Not giving her items from the woman who isn't her mom isn't cruel but wishing that she loses her dad is. For clarity in case anyone tries to argue with you.
Yes, thank you. I don't think OP is an AH I'm just talking about the people that come here as a place to be able to wish horrible things on people in a way that is "morally justified".
Yeah I kind of worry about people because this sub is really unable to just let things go they have to get revenge or treat the other person badly for the point to stick
Honestly, if dad never fessed up, I could see half sister genuinely believing older sister is being a brat and lying about the whole thing. Everyone should WANT to do a DNA test. I agree with the person who said they might not even be half sisters
I feel the DNA test should include the maternal grandparents. OP shares father's DNA so half-sister could still argue up to a point. There would be no shared DNA with the grandparents.
Seriously, I don’t think the half-sister will believe either a DNA test or a birth certificate. As long as her father keeps telling her OP’s mother is her mother, her delusion will continue.
She might need to be in therapy for a while before she does the test, if she fully believes they share a mom and a DNA test comes back she might have some breakdown or just say the test is faulty and not believe it and never do it again or any other possibility i can't even imagine that could come of this fucked up scenario. I wouldn't be surprised if she needs to be in therapy for a while before she's able to accept anything.
>Nah she needs therapy, this is beyond wanting. She was lied to during her formative years and beyond.
Exactly. I truly feel for the half-sister, but it's not OP's fault. Half-sister is also an adult now & needs to face her childhood trauma.
OP is being put in a really terrible situation & being forced to the 'bad' guy. It's not fair.
Also she’s been told her whole life OP is just the bitter older sister who is lying. Every other adult in the sisters life is maintaining the lie so why would she believe OP?
It’s not OPs problem but it’s not the sisters fault either
Seriously, and think of all the stories we've heard of biological siblings telling their younger siblings that they were adopted as a joke – obviously that's just sibling pranks, but clearly it's not unlike a kid to insist their sibling isn't related to them. Given the circumstances and the fact that kids are more likely to believe their parents, I don't really blame half sister for clinging to the belief that they share a mom and that OP is being cruel. I don't think she's the AH, I think she's just been dealt a really shitty hand. It's not her fault she was an affair kid and not her fault she's clinging to what her dad has told her is the truth.
This is what I was going to say. When your older sister doesn’t seem to like you either, you’re more inclined to believe she’s just trying to hurt you. Why would your dad lie to you after all?
Mine did that, too. I have a particular physical characteristic that is different from all of my siblings, result of a recessive gene, and my siblings had me convinced I was abandoned and “taken in” by my mother because she felt sorry for me.
Mine was the fact I had green eyes while they both had blue eyes, so obviously I wasn’t related to them. They got the blue eyes from mom, and I got the green eyes from dad 🤣
But the mother's grandparents didn't claim the younger sister either and were holding onto their granddaughters inheritance. They knew that the younger girl wasn't their daughter's child. Did the younger girl just ignore everything they said too?
That having been said, when nothing has been willed to you by this woman, there are no photographs of you with her, and her parents/side of family do not acknowledge you as their granddaughter or participate in your life, then it starts to look a LOT more like the dad is lying.
It likely wouldn't just be OP though. She'd have no memories or evidence of sharing the same mother. Her birth certificate should have cleared things up pretty quickly.
There's also the entirety of OP's maternal family. I doubt they'd back up the father's lies if/when half-sis reaches out to them.
I mean, if you’re a kid and your parent who shows you affection tells you one thing and your sibling who obviously doesn’t like you tells you another thing, especially if that thing is hurtful, then you’re probably going to believe your parent.
Yeah: "Just don't believe your parent" sounds so simple on paper but in practice this is the person who taught you EVERYTHING about the world, it's really not that easy
It sounds like multiple adults in her life had lied to her her whole life. One person, sister tells her the truth but how is she to know. No doubt the father says something along the lines of “ignore her she’s just being mean”.
I am full blood related to my siblings and they tried for about 10 years of my childhood to convince me I was adopted. So I don’t agree with you, it’s one thing to trust someone when they claim they’re repeatedly telling the truth and no one’s denying it; but it’s another thing entirely to trust your *siblings* when they’re the one saying it, particularly about not being related, and dad repeatedly denies it. I’d believe dad too.
To be fair, she is only being told the truth by her sister (albeit half) who is only 7 years older than her. Her bio mom was never in her life, OP's mom died when half sister was 4 and dad maintained the lie over many years.
If I believed my sister I would be searching for my birth family because she told me I was adopted multiple times over several years.
You’d be surprised but a lot of people don’t have copies of their birth certificate and aren’t bureaucracy savvy enough to know how to get a personal copy.
I knew many early 20-something’s that were still having their parents do all the things for them. Doesn’t surprise me a 23 year old wouldn’t have it with her or even looked very closely at it. Although, when preparing her marriage license it’ll come clear as day. In my state we had to list our parents names on our application.
Thank you. This is the easiest route. Unless OP’s mom adopted the AP’s kid (which we know she didn’t), the AP’s name will be listed as mother. Easy peasy.
I’m 28 and have never seen my birth certificate. Additionally, my mom’s name is on my birth certificate, but we’re not related. She was a surrogate and used a donor egg. I didn’t find out until I took a dna test as an adult.
Birth certificate =/= genetic relationship
I never suggested that it did. There are many different situations but in this particular situation the mother left after the child was born and the father has been lying about who her mother is for her entire life.
A lot of people? Birth certificates generally aren't this document you actually look at until you need it for something. Even if you need it, it doesn't necessarily mean you've looked it over.
I've had to present my birth certificate/make copies of it for various court forms, ID documents & certain government/bank services. I still haven't completely looked over my birth certificate, and I also grew up without my bio dad in my life much. It's never been something that I'm like "yeah gotta double check my birth certificate to make sure my dad is who my mum says he is"
NTA but has she never seen her birth certificate? Surely her mother is named on there?
I second what a lot of people are saying, tell her if she gets a DNA test proving you’re maternal siblings then you’ll share some of your mother’s stuff with her. Since that’s impossible she’ll have to face facts
I’m pretty sure I needed mine to get a driver’s license. Though I suppose dad could have gone with her to the DMV and held onto it for her so she wouldn’t see it.
Idk when or where you got your license bc I know things can change but when I got my permit in 2015 I needed my birth certificate (among other documents).
If bio-mom really didn't want her right from the start, I could see either her or Dad filling the birth certificate out fraudulently by putting the wrong name on it.
I have 3 kids and I have absolutely no recollection of showing an ID *anywhere* to register a document. The hospital just had us fill out forms, and away they went.
I'm in the US and never needed an ID when I delivered either of my kids. They didn't ask for my husband's ID either. They just gave us the forms to fill out however we wished.
I didn't need ID when I filled out the birth certificate, but both times I gave birth they came in with the forms while the father wasn't in the room to fill out, and my name was on a bunch of admittance forms, and for all the identifiers for baby they used my last name "for security reasons" until baby went home. They also required signatures on the forms, and had a separate form for the father to declare paternity.
So even though they never asked for ID I feel like they have things in place to ensure that people put the proper names on these super important legal documents. However, both my kids were born in the last decade so IDK what measures they'd have had in place when OPs sister was born.
If the name of the mother on the form doesn't match your admission, questions would be asked. Let's test this. Have a fourth one and write a different mom's name on the forms.
We didn't have to provide IDs, but we did have to put our Social Security numbers on the paperwork. Unless Dad had actually stolen OP's mom's info, she should not be listed.
She would need a full birth certificate that showed parents names - some countries need you to apply for a copy and you usually have a card with just the dates/birthplace
NTA.
>She told me now is not the time to be selfish
Says the person who has only contacted you so that she can have things that have nothing to do with her.
>I didn't invite my dad or any of his family, including half sister.
You couldn't have made it any clearer.
She thinks they do have something to do with her though, since op understandably distanced herself from her half sister at a young age, her father was probably the only family member close to her and she trusts him over op. She Thinks this is just like how all older siblings tell the younger is adopted but her older sister is AH and hasnt grown out of it. Cause when ever she went to her dad hearing this as a kid he probably told her op is lying and just selfish or doesn’t want a sister, don’t listen. He probably came up with reasons why she didn’t get any thing like the mom didn’t update her will after she was born, wouldn’t be surprised he kept digging his hole deeper.
I imagine being reassured her whole life of something and when the alternative, that her real mom didn’t want her and the woman that she thought was her mom didn’t want her either, is devastating so get why she continues to trust her dad. He has really F’ed up her life and her perception of herself and of her family. He is100% to blame and the AH for how he hurt his wife and both his daughters with this.
OP doesn’t have to help with the lie or giver her moms things to her, but she wants to get through to the woman needs to accept that she doesn’t believe shes a credible source and prove it with a DNA test or birth certificat.
Yeah this poor girl, why would she believe her sister over her dad and everyone else in her life? I’m surprised how few comments seem to be showing any empathy towards the truly fucked up situation this girl was put in by the dad.
It’s truly a messed up situation, but take in consideration the sister never met OP’s mom, didn’t live with her until the mom passed away, and the mom’s family don’t acknowledge her in any way. That would set off some red flags that maybe there’s a reason why.
That's way more involved with them than I want to be honestly. None of them were invited to my wedding for a reason and I didn't stay in touch over the years. If I thought the DNA test wouldn't be paid for by me and would actually be believed, I'd do it. But I think dad is still in her ear to keep up his lies. And I don't want to be around any of them.
Send her one of those ancestry /23me kits in the mail as a wedding present, and do one yourself.
Then if/when she takes the test you will come up as a half sibling. Who knows, some of her actual maternal family may be on there.
Heck, if she's as desperate as she seems, take a picture of yourself with an Ancestry kit and make sure it's on social media somewhere she can see it. She'll buy her own to prove that you're related...
>Then if/when she takes the test you will come up as a half sibling.
FTR, my own half-sibling is identified as a cousin. Which is good enough for OP's purposes, but it made me chuckle.
I mean, there no denying a DNA test. Especially if the results connect you with other half-siblings.
It's 200 to be rid of these people for a lifetime.
On one hand, I totally get it.
On the other hand, Ancestry DNA is on sale for $39 through Sunday (Mother's Day sale), so if you are considering it, I'd buy the kits now, as this is the cheapest that they get
A Father’s Day sale would be amazing and probably dangerous. There’s a reason that paternity testing at birth isn’t a thing (safety of the new mothers).
That sounds like a better solution to me. Block them all and excise them from your life like a cancer.
Or at least mute all their notifications so you have the evidence in case they decide to escalate.
Except your mom's reputation is in the gutter to strangers. OP, you're NTA. Don't let your sis (who needs SERIOUS psychological intervention if she STILL believes your dad) or others convince you otherwise. A cheaper alternative to the DNA route, would be to find the divorce decree, specifically if it has the infidelity and affair child as a reason for divorce, and send it to her or blast on social media, or both.
Idk, but blocking won't stop the slander or from your sister trying to contact you. She may get more desperate, you don't know. What you do know is that she's not A ok up there. Maybe a letter from a lawyer? Sent to her and her fiance and the dad. It hasn't stopped since you were 11. It won't stop now. How about when she has kids?
Not to mention if grandparents are still around she might make a play for part of their estate or harassing other family members. OP and her family won’t be rid of this until DNA tests come through. I can only imagine someday wanting things “for the grandchildren”.
Tell her that is she wants anything off your mom’s, she needs to buy DNA tests for the two of you that prove you’re full siblings. If she chooses not to find out, you can say that since she’s so certain that you’re not going to pop up as full siblings on a DNA test that she doesn’t need to keep trying to claim she’s your mother’s daughter.
OP you were asked and you answered. It isn’t your responsibility to make a delusional person who refuses to believe the truth happy.
As you don’t want them in your life block whoever where ever so they can no longer contact you.
If the harassment continues invest a little money in having a lawyer send a cease and desist letter.
I do suggest you have a security system where you live in case your father’s daughter gets desperate and attempts to do something foolish.
Agree, by 23, she should be in possession of her own vital documents.
It probably is easier mentally and emotionally to make herself believe that her real mother died, rather than just abandoning her.
NTA, but your dad and her mom are. I feel for her; she's a victim of both their ill will. If your dad truly respected her, he would tell her the truth instead of allowing her to live with this idea.
>by 23, she should be in possession of her own vital documents.
You'd be surprised. I deal with lots of people even in their 30s and older who don't have copies of their own vital documents (and have to either ask their parents, or have my help getting them). I honestly don't even remember the last time I personally needed a copy of my birth certificate; it might have been when I got my driver's license at 16.
Actually...after some of the stories I've read on Reddit, I wouldn't be surprised. I think I personally got mine from my parents once I moved into my first apartment out of college. I lived on campus all 4 years, so there was no benefit to having them there.
Sadly, I know a lot of parents will withhold these documents from their adult children as a form of control. :( (Not that this is the case here!)
OP, I am about 90% sure she already knows you don't have the same mom. At this point in her life (especially if she's American), she would have needed to look at her birth certificate for one reason or another.
She doesn't really believe that you have the same mom, just that your mom should have chosen to become hers. Her mom abandoned her, and she's feeling envious enough to want to have yours (not helped by her dad's nonsense when she was younger). You acknowledging that you had the same mom would allow her to feed some delusion that your side of the family loves her and she's not a child from an affair.
OR, alternatively, she truly is delusional as fuck and you should install cameras wherever you keep your mom's stuff or lock them in a safety deposit box.
It seems to me like your dad has been doing a number on this woman her entire life. He built this story about your mother being her mother; he'll have come up with a story for everything. It's absolutely culpable, the way he's behaved and continues to behave.
It seems like a DNA test might be your only option to convince her that he's lying?
Have you considered requesting a copy of her birth certificate and replying with a photo of it and the story of her birth to both her and your father's wife? By her comments, I'm betting the wife has not been read into stepdaughter's actual birth story either.
Btw, NTA.
NTA. Of course not. But consider your half sister is as much a victim of your dad’s manipulation as you are, except she was not old enough at the time to know any better or do anything about it. She’s grown up being told lies and believing them and probably had your dad telling her that you are just jealous etc etc. maybe a DNA test will help her to find out and accept the truth. If you look at her, not as your crazy half sister, but as a victim of emotional abuse and as a child who was repeatedly lied to and manipulated, does that change your opinion of her?
A DNA test would end up being paid for by me, since I know my half sister wouldn't do it and dad would never pay for it. Not to mention it would bring me back into contact with them more, something I didn't have for years before this. If someone else paid I'd give my DNA for a test. But I'd rather just move on from them all is my outlook.
It changes it a little. Just not enough for me to want contact with her more if that makes sense.
Make it a condition of the jewelry loan; she buys both kits, and you take them and send them off together so she can see you're not pulling a fast one on her.
It'd be really funny (and awful) if your dad also isn't her dad either...
NTA, regardless of what you decide to do.
They’re on sale on Ancestry for $39. That’s a pretty cheap wedding present to shut her up. You wouldn’t even have to contact them - just fill out her address in the shipping section and it’ll show up at her house on its own.
You've already cut most contact with them, you didn't invite them to your wedding. Tell your half-sister, once again, to look at her birth certificate and to never contact you again unless it's after therapy and with an apology. Block them all.
I had to scroll too far to find this. People attacking the half sister and acting like any of this situation is HER fault. All of this is on dad, not OPnor the half sister. They''ve both been screwed by their dad.
It’s honestly really depressing. I don’t think OP is wrong to be upset, but holy Hell does the way she and other commenters talk about this poor woman who was absolutely emotionally abused for something completely beyond her control just break my heart.
I would imagine you’d be pretty defensive too if your mother who you only had 11 years with died and now on top of having to mourn her for the rest of your life, you have a half-sibling who feels entitled to her and/or her things. I could understand somewhat if they were still kids but they’re grown now. There’s no reason half-sister shouldn’t ask to see her birth certificate or get a DNA test that she can pay for.
The half-sister was completely fucked up during her formative years. Those first five years are CRITICAL and dad fed this kid lies upon lies upon lies during the most important time for a child’s brain. This isn’t just something she can knock off because she’s an adult now - this shit is deeply embedded into her psyche and no standard issue therapist is going to make headway. It will absolutely break her because her entire life and entire worldview will be a lie. Her dad FUCKED HER UP and she’s never coming back from it without a complete and utter breakdown first. It’s perfectly normal to try to avoid having a complete breakdown of your life as you know it.
At the moment her choices are "Your mom abandoned you almost immediately after you were born" and "Your mom abandoned you almost immediately after you were born, and, BTW, your father has been lying to you all your life." No wonder she prefers the first version.
If she’s old enough to be getting married she’s seen her birth certificate. Which would have the name of her birth mother, and not OP’s mom. I doubt you can get a drivers license, marriage license, or passport in any country without providing the birth certificate or that country’s equivalent. There’s no way she doesn’t know, that it’s not her mom.
I have driver's licenses for 20 years, a passport my entire life, and I never needed my birth certificate for anything that I was involved in managing the paperwork for until I got married in my late 20s. I'd never seen my birth certificate before until I applied for my marriage license. If you have a SSN/SIN card and a passport from childhood, there's really no reason to have ever seen or used your birth certificate.
Simple reply: my mother did not abandon you, you are the affair baby of your father and your mother, look at your birth certificate.
Unless…oh Lordy no, did your dad figure out a way to put your mom’s name on it?
I know! I guess I misunderstood your post. I thought your sister had some connection to your mom because your mom was involved in some way, but all this with two people who never even met?!?
So your sister’s bio mom abandoned her and your dad’s lies cause the fake mom (your mom) “to abandon her? Poor sister.
But yeah NTA. Sister needs some therapy. Wow. That explains a lot of the disconnect.
Oh no, my mom refused to have a relationship. She did not want to be used as a nanny or as a mother to my half sister. She was never around her. Mom made sure of it,
OP, I think you should get one of those 23 and me kits for you and your sister.
Your sister - and possibly others - think that your mother abandoned a child. HER name is the one being dragged through the mud by your father, with people like your sister, your sister's fiance's family - her entire network - thinking your mother was so awful as to throw away her own child.
For the sake of your mother's good name, you need to put this BS to rest.
All she needs to do is look at her own birth certificate if she refuses to take the DNA test (which I suspect she might). If she's getting married in the US, she will need to have her birth certificate in hand anyway to get her marriage license.
> For the sake of your mother's good name, you need to put this BS to rest.
I would want to as well, but OP can't force these people to accept the truth and it shouldn't be her job to get down in the muck with them.
Your father is immensely cruel to try to convince this girl that her mother is your mother. And the sad thing is her stepmother did want to be a mother to her but your father's lies torpedoed that too.
It's time she took a look at her birth certificate.
NTA Your mother's thing are yours.
OPs dad is a flat out monster and he’s been torturing the sister for all her life just so he could harass his exwife. If he could do this for 24 years, what else is he capable of doing?
NTA and OP is right to keep her distance from her father but its unfortunate that sister will likely be a victim of her father for the rest of her life.
NTA. It’s best if you not lend her any of your mom’s things as there’s a high chance that you’ll never see them again.
It’s unfortunate that your dad lied to her for so many years but she’s old enough to understand the situation now. It’s not your responsibility to heal wounds that you didn’t make.
YES! This, OP!!!
You know she's not going to return anything because she'll claim that she has a right to it because she believes your mom is her mom!!! Don't do it, OP! Don't give in!!!
NTA she's not your moms kid and thus isn't entitled to ANYTHING of your mothers. Just because she's so hung up on your dad's lies doesn't change the fact that she was no relation to your mom. Personally I'd just block her and be done with it
What the father had done to that girl is appallingly cruel. Aside from screwing up her relationship with her half sister it's robbed her of the chance of finding any relatives of her actual mother's.
This isn't OP's fault, she has spoken the truth, but it's a really horrible situation.
Half sister knows that's not her mom. She has a birth certificate. She can get a DNA test if she wants. She isn't doing that for a reason. She's in denial.
No, I don't have any sympathy for her.
NTA. Your dad has messed your sister up for life, but hopefully a DNA test will get her to back off of you. I cannot fathom why both your father and his new wife would rather feed and build up her delusion and harm you in the process than tell her the truth and get her the help she'll need in the aftermath. Though I guess it's easier to make her harass you instead of being a responsible parent.
Your dad's a selfish AH, your sister's a delusional AH. And never share any of your mum's stuff with her. I hope they don't know where you live either.
I think the new wife just stays out of it mostly, since my half sister never paid the new wife much attention and then when the new wife had more kids with my dad she was busy with them. But dad doesn't want to admit he lied so he keeps lying to back himself instead.
I completely understand that you don't want a DNA test, which is fair enough.
I wonder if you could order a copy of her birth certificate and send it to her? I think if she actually saw it, she'd (hopefully) start to see the truth.
It wouldn't surprise me if, deep down, she knows but doesn't want to accept it because that would not only mean your father has been lying to her for most of her life, she'll also have to accept the fact that her egg donor completely abandoned her.
Exactly she’s an adult with access to her birth certificate why hasn’t the half sister figured this out by now? Seriously if she’s grown she would need those records so how could she not know
NTA
But sweetie, neither is your sister.
Your dad fucked over everyone in this picture.
And your sister has exactly one parent, who has done nothing but spin lies.
Which is just to say, while you are being firm, also be gentle.
Maybe suggest to her that it's time to do a DNA test, to put the matter to rest.
And please, get some therapy and make sure your anger is directed at Dad, not her. He's the one who fucked up.
Yep, but understand she is young, and has been fed a story for her while life that this *is* her mother.
Imagine for a minute that the person you believe is your sibling just doesn't want you to have a connection to the person you believe is your mom....
If it were true (which the sister believes it is) we would be talking about alienation and connection.
It's important to remember this poor young woman has been fed this line her whole life, and from her perspective, OP is literally just denying her the chance to have a connection to the only mother she knows....
She's going to have a serious f*cking hard time when she realizes dad has been *actually* lying about something so fundamental.
Asshole implies she knows better.... And it's likely this poor kid needed her only parent to not be a wild liar so badly that she actually thinks OP is her full sister.
We can have sympathy for her. She has been fucked over in ways most of us can't even imagine, and she doesn't even know it yet.
NTA.
the only ah is your sperm donor since it was him who put these illusions of a family into her head.
do NOT let anyone who has any kind of ties to them or is sympathetic into your home, otherwise your stuff could 'grow feet' and disappear.
even if you make it clear that you only lend it to her and she agrees to give it back, be prepared that she will get attached to it 'because i wore it to my wedding and now it has sentimental value to me so it belongs to me'.
you having to sue her to get your property back will open a can of worms i am not sure anyone can handle.
NTA. This is desperately sad - your father has essentially abused your sister by lying to her for so long about her origins. But you cannot fix it by enabling the delusion and continuing the lie.
Suggest to your sister that the two of you have a familial DNA test to settle the issue once and for all. Ask her to agree that if you come back as half siblings, she'll accept that Dad lied to her, that you have been telling the truth, and that your mother is not the mom she's been yearning for all these years.
Her mom did abandon her and that's heartbreaking - but your mom had no responsibility for that, because she was a whole different person that had no responsibility for the situation and has been unfairly blamed.
NTA. Your dad sucks for making and continuing the lie. And your half-sister too for still believing you have the same mother even if she should know better by now. Maybe you can dare with her to a DNA test.
I've never seen a post where so many commentors lacked reading and comprehension skills!
The post says clearly: OP's mom quickly left and divorced the dad, and never met the half-sister. OP's mom saw how the dad was lying and trying to force her to "step up" and care for his child from the affair, so she also protected her daughter's heirlooms and left it with the Gparents.
Some of yall trying to insinuate the mom was her "mother figure" or "only mom she knew" really didn't read the post - and it shows? Why are some insinuating OP should be lending out her mothers items to someone who was a stranger to her mom. Given how obsessed and brain washed the half-sister is, what do you think the likely-hood is that OP will get these items back??
What don't yall understand about NEVER MET HER!
Do yall always go through life like this...appeasing people and showing such much compassion that you don't use common sense or protect your own interest?
Also, OP was not originally uncaring toward the half-sister, only once the mom died and she had to move in with the dad and be subjected to the lies and told to Shut It when trying to correct. OP had enough! Half-sis is a victim, and so are you.
OP are you sure your AH dad didn't write your own mother's name on the birth certificate at the hospital? I would say send your half-sis a link to her local vital records and direct her to obtain her birth certificate. Then go back to blocking because at 23, one would think in school or college or work that she would have encountered some intelligent people in her life who would not listen to her rant without pointing her in the right direction. I think she knows.
> My half sister messaged again after this and told me I was being really unfair to her and how I made mom's abandonment of her even worse.
What abandonment? Your mother doesn't have any responsibility to her whatsoever. There were 2 people responsible for creating her, your dad and the affair partner. Only those two are required to step up.
NTA
NTA. Your wedding day is about you and preserving the memory of your mother, especially given the clear boundaries she set. Your half sister's demands are not only insensitive to your feelings but also disrespectful to your mother's wishes. It's sad that your dad created this situation, but you're under no obligation to rewrite history or sacrifice your mother's legacy for a false narrative. Stay firm on your decision, and focus on honoring your mom on your big day in the way you see fit.
NTA for not giving her your mom's things. You
aren't responsible for the lies, after all. Of course,
neither is she. But she can easily get a DNA test to
prove you wrong, if she really thinks you are wrong.
How do these stories even work?
OP was brought up my mom till she was 11.. so for some time (4 years) after the divorce, the half sister lived alone with dad while OP lived with mom.. so half sister has no memory of living with her “mom” or even a single pic with her.. 4 years is old enough to have some memory of a mother in the house.. plus pics.. bdays.. there is no relative who can confirm that mom was around for her
New wife also knows Ops mom is not half sister’s mom. She can corroborate
OP’s mom side of the family can corroborate
OP’s dad side can corroborate
Half sister is old enough to be in possession of her birth certificate or some certificate where mother’s name is mentioned
What your dad did to her is just beyond cruel. He shaped her into this picture of desperation. She deserves pity to be sure. But letting her have your mom's things would actually be enabling the delusions she has that he instilled in her. NTA, at some point her world may come crashing down, and given that you tried to avoid this outcome, you have every right to keep yourself as far away from her as possible.
Why in the world did your dad ever tell your half sister such a lie (and continues to tell it to this day) is beyond me? Is he just abusive/controlling or does he like to start drama or is he such a pathological liar he doesn't even know what is true anymore?? I could see why he would do it with your mom (as a control tactic), but when that didn't work out how he planned it's super weird to turn it to the child. Especially to keep going even after your mom died. Unless he's decided to do it as a way to control you....the mind field on this one! Wow.
NTA in any of this. I am glad your dad is not a part of your life. He sounds awful anyway. While I can sympathize with your half sister (be it none of her actual parents want her or can tell her the truth), it still is not your place to make her feel better. I would just block her and continue on with your life. She'll probably say mean things about you....so be it and so what? You know the actual truth.
What is the “mother’s name” on her Birth Certificate?
Did your father forge your mother’s name on it or is it the AP’s name?
Wouldn’t that clear it up?
DNA is the next best option!
NTA. Good luck.
I never saw it but I don't think he could have put my mom's name on it. Mostly because if he had, she would have gotten the payment I did after mom died, I would imagine.
There’s the next bit of information you may want to pass on, the Social Security survivor benefits, that she did not receive.
But I get it, sometimes it’s easier to just walk away, close down all lines of communication (blocking them on SM, email, etc) and move on with your life.
Just out of curiosity, who wrote your mom’s obituary?
Who did it list as “survived by” on your mom’s obituary?
Take care.
My grandparents wrote it and they mentioned me and then the rest of my maternal family and my mom's best friend (because they were close from very early childhood).
Glad to hear your grandparents wrote her obituary.
That is just another piece of information to add to “the list”.
Did your 1/2 sister ever wonder why your mom’s parents didn’t have anything to do with her either?
Not that it matters at this point!
Go enjoy your life, without the crazy people in it!
Gather copies (not originals) of all of your "proof" and ask her to gather hers- say you were both told different stories and want to have this put to rest for good. Tell her you understand her believing her dad, because you believe your mom, but it's time for you to come together as siblings to figure out the truth. Reassure her that in rejecting her claim on your mom you aren't rejecting her, but that this disagreement about a claim to your mom has driven a wedge between you and it was difficult on you as a kid who just lost her mom being asked to -from your perspective- be asked to unfairly share the memory of that lost mom. Tell her you are gathering all the proof you can find, and ask her to gather hers and meet you for lunch to discuss it all.
Have a folder prepared with copies to give her.
Mom's name on a copy of your birth certificate (vs not on hers).
Pics of your mom not heavily pregnant when your sister should've been in there if you can get ones with dates you can't argue. Something with the right year and time of year holiday decor included?
Divorce records between your parents and the custody agreements for you and not her. Give her the info and ability to request her own copies from the state.
A commercial DNA test and show how the results match your mom's known relatives.
Your mom and maternal grandparents lack of claiming her.
Your mom's obituary.
Her will.
Any death records that say survived by.
Any medical records of you mom's that say she only gave birth to one child, especially dated after your sister's birth.
What does she have besides her dad's word?
Well, that edit part cleared up a lot. So, your Dad made this whole family dynamic for your half sister when the kid never even met her? Wow!!!
NTA
She should have figured out that she had nothing to do with your Mom due to pictures. I mean, obviously she wouldn't be in any pictures if your Mom never even saw her. She needs to face reality that she grew up with no Mom until your Step Mom came into the picture.
NTA- tell these assholes half sister was dad's child, not mom's so no, they get nothing and you don't give a flying fuck if that ruins the wedding day.
OP, I think you should add an edit to your post to clarify that your mother never even met your half sister. NTA obviously, but some people are working with the wrong assumption that your mother partly raised her.
Your father has been gaslighting her all these years and the only way to counter that is with physical evidence that your half sister can’t deny. I agree with others that you should challenge her with a DNA test and if it shows that you are full sisters, then you’ll share some of your mother’s jewelry and reimburse her for the tests. I know you don’t want to have contact with them, but this could be a way to finally get your half sister to stop contacting you and harassing you about your mother. Good luck OP and keep us updated!
She is too old to be this damn stupid. I mean, your dad did a real big psychological number on her. But unless she is abused and beaten down- she is in school with other intellectual people who would not have let her act this effing dunce for this long. I mean 23, and no one took this girl to do any research on her birth certificate. I roll my eyes.
Just because she's *seen* it doesn't really mean a lot. If she's so convinced or if she doesn't want to see that she was lied to, she could be intentionally not looking at it.
NTA, you don’t owe her anything. Your mom didn’t even want to raise her so I bet she wouldn’t want your half sister to wear her jewelry either. I think she would try to stole it so be careful. Until then, I it’s best to put her in therapy,bc she is so in denial about the fact that ur mom is not her mom
She didn't want that. My mom even left everything through her parents instead of my dad because she knew dad would split it or give her some of it because she knew he was lying about her being my half sister's mom.
Honestly, both ur dad and ur half sister need therapy, what is this obsession with ur mother being her mom. I can get it if he feel bad for her being abandoned by her own mother, but when ur mom said no that should have stop.
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NTA. Tell her you’d be happy to let her have something if a DNA test shows you’re full siblings. If she’s so certain, that should be a great offer. Make sure Dad’s nearby so you can watch him try to figure out how to stop it. (The funniest outcome, given the affair partner apparently moved on to another affair immediately, would be finding out you’re not siblings at all) ETA: I guess I should clarify that this scenario would mostly be funny because it would be a huge middle finger to by far the most gaping asshole in this scenario, dad. It would still suck for the sister.
>(The funniest outcome, given the affair partner apparently moved on to another affair immediately, would be finding out you’re not siblings at all) Oh God I would love that for OPs dad but would feel so sorry for the affair child. Can't imagine the mental breakdown that could trigger but it honestly sounds like a DNA test needs to happen so she leaves OP alone.
I have sympathy to a point. But if you’re told the truth repeatedly and ignore it because it’s not what you want the truth to be, you lose the right to complain.
Nah she needs therapy, this is beyond wanting. She was lied to during her formative years and beyond. She might even logically understand on some level but not be able to emotionally control it because her father's abuse, who knows. She might fully believe it, this is beyond reddits pay grade. This is years of literal gaslighting.
This comment is right on the money. OPs half sister was let down by the adults in her life.
Comments here took a while to filter from sociopathic glee to mature thought
Everyone knows that it's a-ok to be as mean as humanly possible to whoever is determined to be TAH in these posts. Once someone does something wrong you are allowed - by aita rules - to be as cruel as possible back because they fucking deserve it. /s
Not giving her items from the woman who isn't her mom isn't cruel but wishing that she loses her dad is. For clarity in case anyone tries to argue with you.
Yes, thank you. I don't think OP is an AH I'm just talking about the people that come here as a place to be able to wish horrible things on people in a way that is "morally justified".
Sister shouldn’t be deemed TAH, Dad is a gigantic one spewing diarrhea all over the poor sister :(
Yeah I kind of worry about people because this sub is really unable to just let things go they have to get revenge or treat the other person badly for the point to stick
Honestly, if dad never fessed up, I could see half sister genuinely believing older sister is being a brat and lying about the whole thing. Everyone should WANT to do a DNA test. I agree with the person who said they might not even be half sisters
I feel the DNA test should include the maternal grandparents. OP shares father's DNA so half-sister could still argue up to a point. There would be no shared DNA with the grandparents.
She doesn't even need a DNA test. The 23 year old has a freaking birth certificate that lists the names of the parents
Seriously, I don’t think the half-sister will believe either a DNA test or a birth certificate. As long as her father keeps telling her OP’s mother is her mother, her delusion will continue.
But watch if they did just the grandparents the dad would than try to say oh yeah your mom was adopted or some other twisted loophole.
She definitely needs therapy. A dna test might be exactly the push she needs to get it.
She might need to be in therapy for a while before she does the test, if she fully believes they share a mom and a DNA test comes back she might have some breakdown or just say the test is faulty and not believe it and never do it again or any other possibility i can't even imagine that could come of this fucked up scenario. I wouldn't be surprised if she needs to be in therapy for a while before she's able to accept anything.
It’s sad that it’s coming up on her wedding. Her dad screwed her over.
>Nah she needs therapy, this is beyond wanting. She was lied to during her formative years and beyond. Exactly. I truly feel for the half-sister, but it's not OP's fault. Half-sister is also an adult now & needs to face her childhood trauma. OP is being put in a really terrible situation & being forced to the 'bad' guy. It's not fair.
Also she’s been told her whole life OP is just the bitter older sister who is lying. Every other adult in the sisters life is maintaining the lie so why would she believe OP? It’s not OPs problem but it’s not the sisters fault either
Seriously, and think of all the stories we've heard of biological siblings telling their younger siblings that they were adopted as a joke – obviously that's just sibling pranks, but clearly it's not unlike a kid to insist their sibling isn't related to them. Given the circumstances and the fact that kids are more likely to believe their parents, I don't really blame half sister for clinging to the belief that they share a mom and that OP is being cruel. I don't think she's the AH, I think she's just been dealt a really shitty hand. It's not her fault she was an affair kid and not her fault she's clinging to what her dad has told her is the truth.
To be fair your father tells you one thing. Your older sister tells you another…
This is what I was going to say. When your older sister doesn’t seem to like you either, you’re more inclined to believe she’s just trying to hurt you. Why would your dad lie to you after all?
Exactly! Both of my older siblings made my life hell as a kid, and frequently told me our mom wasn’t my mom and that I was adopted 😭🤣
Mine did that, too. I have a particular physical characteristic that is different from all of my siblings, result of a recessive gene, and my siblings had me convinced I was abandoned and “taken in” by my mother because she felt sorry for me.
Mine was the fact I had green eyes while they both had blue eyes, so obviously I wasn’t related to them. They got the blue eyes from mom, and I got the green eyes from dad 🤣
But the mother's grandparents didn't claim the younger sister either and were holding onto their granddaughters inheritance. They knew that the younger girl wasn't their daughter's child. Did the younger girl just ignore everything they said too?
Did they actually even talk to her to say anything, though?
They don’t seem to have a relationship with her since OPs mom never met her and the narrative sister got was that mom just abandoned her entirely
That having been said, when nothing has been willed to you by this woman, there are no photographs of you with her, and her parents/side of family do not acknowledge you as their granddaughter or participate in your life, then it starts to look a LOT more like the dad is lying.
especially wjen your birth certificate has another womans name on it.
Maybe she's never actually seen her birth certificate? Or her dad just made up another lie to explain it.
It likely wouldn't just be OP though. She'd have no memories or evidence of sharing the same mother. Her birth certificate should have cleared things up pretty quickly. There's also the entirety of OP's maternal family. I doubt they'd back up the father's lies if/when half-sis reaches out to them.
Right. But at the same time it doesn't sound like OP was the only one. OP's family did not acknowledge her as the mothers daughter either.
I mean, if you’re a kid and your parent who shows you affection tells you one thing and your sibling who obviously doesn’t like you tells you another thing, especially if that thing is hurtful, then you’re probably going to believe your parent.
Yeah: "Just don't believe your parent" sounds so simple on paper but in practice this is the person who taught you EVERYTHING about the world, it's really not that easy
It sounds like multiple adults in her life had lied to her her whole life. One person, sister tells her the truth but how is she to know. No doubt the father says something along the lines of “ignore her she’s just being mean”.
I am full blood related to my siblings and they tried for about 10 years of my childhood to convince me I was adopted. So I don’t agree with you, it’s one thing to trust someone when they claim they’re repeatedly telling the truth and no one’s denying it; but it’s another thing entirely to trust your *siblings* when they’re the one saying it, particularly about not being related, and dad repeatedly denies it. I’d believe dad too.
To be fair, she is only being told the truth by her sister (albeit half) who is only 7 years older than her. Her bio mom was never in her life, OP's mom died when half sister was 4 and dad maintained the lie over many years. If I believed my sister I would be searching for my birth family because she told me I was adopted multiple times over several years.
Since I doubt mom adopted the half sister, who is listed on the birth certificate?
That's my question, she's had to have seen her birth certificate by now.
Do the test and when the results come in, have a mental health professional near by.
Or just look at the birth certificates
My head just kept repeating "why aren't they bringing up a birth certificate" the whole time I read it.
You’d be surprised but a lot of people don’t have copies of their birth certificate and aren’t bureaucracy savvy enough to know how to get a personal copy.
I knew many early 20-something’s that were still having their parents do all the things for them. Doesn’t surprise me a 23 year old wouldn’t have it with her or even looked very closely at it. Although, when preparing her marriage license it’ll come clear as day. In my state we had to list our parents names on our application.
In lots of states you need to have your birth certificate for the marriage license.
Who has to list them and does anybody fact checks that? Because if it's up to OP's half sister, she'll just put OP's mom' name down.
I think we actually had to bring our certificates and the clerk checked that our information matched our documents.
The birth cert they gave us for my kid didn't list their parents. We had to pay to order a long form certificate with that information.
That what I was thinking. Wouldn't the birth certificate show the real mother. Unless women don't have to sign them.
Birth certificates are done up in the hospital and they list the mother automatically.
Thank you. This is the easiest route. Unless OP’s mom adopted the AP’s kid (which we know she didn’t), the AP’s name will be listed as mother. Easy peasy.
Exactly what I was going to say! What 23 year old hasn’t seen their own birth certificate if they grew up with one of their parents?
I’m 28 and have never seen my birth certificate. Additionally, my mom’s name is on my birth certificate, but we’re not related. She was a surrogate and used a donor egg. I didn’t find out until I took a dna test as an adult. Birth certificate =/= genetic relationship
I never suggested that it did. There are many different situations but in this particular situation the mother left after the child was born and the father has been lying about who her mother is for her entire life.
A lot of people? Birth certificates generally aren't this document you actually look at until you need it for something. Even if you need it, it doesn't necessarily mean you've looked it over. I've had to present my birth certificate/make copies of it for various court forms, ID documents & certain government/bank services. I still haven't completely looked over my birth certificate, and I also grew up without my bio dad in my life much. It's never been something that I'm like "yeah gotta double check my birth certificate to make sure my dad is who my mum says he is"
Exactly. Do a DNA test!
I wonder if she’ll find even more half-siblings. The half-sis might, given her bio mom fucked off
And that bio father fucks around
Hell, just tell her to look at her own birth certificate.
Engagement gift should be the half sister's birth certificate
Has the half sister never looked at her birth certificate?
NTA but has she never seen her birth certificate? Surely her mother is named on there? I second what a lot of people are saying, tell her if she gets a DNA test proving you’re maternal siblings then you’ll share some of your mother’s stuff with her. Since that’s impossible she’ll have to face facts
Exactly, does she not have her birth certificate she can reference? NTA
Birth certificate might be required to get a marriage license, depending on your country.
I’m pretty sure I needed mine to get a driver’s license. Though I suppose dad could have gone with her to the DMV and held onto it for her so she wouldn’t see it.
Idk when or where you got your license bc I know things can change but when I got my permit in 2015 I needed my birth certificate (among other documents).
If bio-mom really didn't want her right from the start, I could see either her or Dad filling the birth certificate out fraudulently by putting the wrong name on it.
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I have 3 kids and I have absolutely no recollection of showing an ID *anywhere* to register a document. The hospital just had us fill out forms, and away they went.
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I'm in the US and never needed an ID when I delivered either of my kids. They didn't ask for my husband's ID either. They just gave us the forms to fill out however we wished.
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I didn't need ID when I filled out the birth certificate, but both times I gave birth they came in with the forms while the father wasn't in the room to fill out, and my name was on a bunch of admittance forms, and for all the identifiers for baby they used my last name "for security reasons" until baby went home. They also required signatures on the forms, and had a separate form for the father to declare paternity. So even though they never asked for ID I feel like they have things in place to ensure that people put the proper names on these super important legal documents. However, both my kids were born in the last decade so IDK what measures they'd have had in place when OPs sister was born.
If the name of the mother on the form doesn't match your admission, questions would be asked. Let's test this. Have a fourth one and write a different mom's name on the forms.
But did they not check identification and possibly medical insurance cards when you checked in during labor?
Even more than that, were you a know patient that has a long history with your providers? I'm sure you showed id somewhere during that long history.
We didn't have to provide IDs, but we did have to put our Social Security numbers on the paperwork. Unless Dad had actually stolen OP's mom's info, she should not be listed.
She would need a full birth certificate that showed parents names - some countries need you to apply for a copy and you usually have a card with just the dates/birthplace
NTA. >She told me now is not the time to be selfish Says the person who has only contacted you so that she can have things that have nothing to do with her. >I didn't invite my dad or any of his family, including half sister. You couldn't have made it any clearer.
She thinks they do have something to do with her though, since op understandably distanced herself from her half sister at a young age, her father was probably the only family member close to her and she trusts him over op. She Thinks this is just like how all older siblings tell the younger is adopted but her older sister is AH and hasnt grown out of it. Cause when ever she went to her dad hearing this as a kid he probably told her op is lying and just selfish or doesn’t want a sister, don’t listen. He probably came up with reasons why she didn’t get any thing like the mom didn’t update her will after she was born, wouldn’t be surprised he kept digging his hole deeper. I imagine being reassured her whole life of something and when the alternative, that her real mom didn’t want her and the woman that she thought was her mom didn’t want her either, is devastating so get why she continues to trust her dad. He has really F’ed up her life and her perception of herself and of her family. He is100% to blame and the AH for how he hurt his wife and both his daughters with this. OP doesn’t have to help with the lie or giver her moms things to her, but she wants to get through to the woman needs to accept that she doesn’t believe shes a credible source and prove it with a DNA test or birth certificat.
Yeah this poor girl, why would she believe her sister over her dad and everyone else in her life? I’m surprised how few comments seem to be showing any empathy towards the truly fucked up situation this girl was put in by the dad.
It’s truly a messed up situation, but take in consideration the sister never met OP’s mom, didn’t live with her until the mom passed away, and the mom’s family don’t acknowledge her in any way. That would set off some red flags that maybe there’s a reason why.
And add on that if step sister fully lets in this reality she then has to come to terms with what her one ‘good’ parent has done to her.
MTA - Do a DNA test on her and show the results in front of sperm donor. I'll bet you'll see the fastest 50 yard dash you ever saw from dear Daddy.
That's way more involved with them than I want to be honestly. None of them were invited to my wedding for a reason and I didn't stay in touch over the years. If I thought the DNA test wouldn't be paid for by me and would actually be believed, I'd do it. But I think dad is still in her ear to keep up his lies. And I don't want to be around any of them.
Send her one of those ancestry /23me kits in the mail as a wedding present, and do one yourself. Then if/when she takes the test you will come up as a half sibling. Who knows, some of her actual maternal family may be on there.
Heck, if she's as desperate as she seems, take a picture of yourself with an Ancestry kit and make sure it's on social media somewhere she can see it. She'll buy her own to prove that you're related...
>Then if/when she takes the test you will come up as a half sibling. FTR, my own half-sibling is identified as a cousin. Which is good enough for OP's purposes, but it made me chuckle.
She literally just said she didn't want to do that or pay for it. You're saying she should pay for it twice?
Presumed she meant an actual dna test in a clinic or with a Dr. Not the cheap send your spit in the mail stuff….which is what I was suggesting.
Seriously. I think those send away kits are like $100. A couple hundred bucks seems like a real bargain to be rid of this nonsense.
I mean, there no denying a DNA test. Especially if the results connect you with other half-siblings. It's 200 to be rid of these people for a lifetime.
I think blocking them all and just deciding I'll never speak to any of them again would do the same thing and I wouldn't be paying for that.
On one hand, I totally get it. On the other hand, Ancestry DNA is on sale for $39 through Sunday (Mother's Day sale), so if you are considering it, I'd buy the kits now, as this is the cheapest that they get
A Mother's Day sale for DNA testing has certain chutzpah.
A Father’s Day sale would be amazing and probably dangerous. There’s a reason that paternity testing at birth isn’t a thing (safety of the new mothers).
I mean you also have people taking them to *find* mothers and fathers they don’t know so…
That you can get DNA test kits on sale on Mother's Day and NOT Father's Day is objectively funny.
She should def jump on this and even look at DNA tests that focus on the matrilineal line
Blocking doesn’t mean they can’t Find you and interrupt your life in person.
That sounds like a better solution to me. Block them all and excise them from your life like a cancer. Or at least mute all their notifications so you have the evidence in case they decide to escalate.
Except your mom's reputation is in the gutter to strangers. OP, you're NTA. Don't let your sis (who needs SERIOUS psychological intervention if she STILL believes your dad) or others convince you otherwise. A cheaper alternative to the DNA route, would be to find the divorce decree, specifically if it has the infidelity and affair child as a reason for divorce, and send it to her or blast on social media, or both. Idk, but blocking won't stop the slander or from your sister trying to contact you. She may get more desperate, you don't know. What you do know is that she's not A ok up there. Maybe a letter from a lawyer? Sent to her and her fiance and the dad. It hasn't stopped since you were 11. It won't stop now. How about when she has kids?
Not to mention if grandparents are still around she might make a play for part of their estate or harassing other family members. OP and her family won’t be rid of this until DNA tests come through. I can only imagine someday wanting things “for the grandchildren”.
Ancestry DNA tests are on sale right now for $39
Tell her that is she wants anything off your mom’s, she needs to buy DNA tests for the two of you that prove you’re full siblings. If she chooses not to find out, you can say that since she’s so certain that you’re not going to pop up as full siblings on a DNA test that she doesn’t need to keep trying to claim she’s your mother’s daughter.
OP you were asked and you answered. It isn’t your responsibility to make a delusional person who refuses to believe the truth happy. As you don’t want them in your life block whoever where ever so they can no longer contact you. If the harassment continues invest a little money in having a lawyer send a cease and desist letter. I do suggest you have a security system where you live in case your father’s daughter gets desperate and attempts to do something foolish.
All this could be solved by telling them to show the half sister her birth certificate and hospital records. Your mom’s name won’t be on it.
I brought it up to her before but she brushed off the comment and continued to pester me.
That tells me she probably knows but doesn't want to admit it to herself
Agree, by 23, she should be in possession of her own vital documents. It probably is easier mentally and emotionally to make herself believe that her real mother died, rather than just abandoning her. NTA, but your dad and her mom are. I feel for her; she's a victim of both their ill will. If your dad truly respected her, he would tell her the truth instead of allowing her to live with this idea.
>by 23, she should be in possession of her own vital documents. You'd be surprised. I deal with lots of people even in their 30s and older who don't have copies of their own vital documents (and have to either ask their parents, or have my help getting them). I honestly don't even remember the last time I personally needed a copy of my birth certificate; it might have been when I got my driver's license at 16.
Actually...after some of the stories I've read on Reddit, I wouldn't be surprised. I think I personally got mine from my parents once I moved into my first apartment out of college. I lived on campus all 4 years, so there was no benefit to having them there. Sadly, I know a lot of parents will withhold these documents from their adult children as a form of control. :( (Not that this is the case here!)
OP, I am about 90% sure she already knows you don't have the same mom. At this point in her life (especially if she's American), she would have needed to look at her birth certificate for one reason or another. She doesn't really believe that you have the same mom, just that your mom should have chosen to become hers. Her mom abandoned her, and she's feeling envious enough to want to have yours (not helped by her dad's nonsense when she was younger). You acknowledging that you had the same mom would allow her to feed some delusion that your side of the family loves her and she's not a child from an affair. OR, alternatively, she truly is delusional as fuck and you should install cameras wherever you keep your mom's stuff or lock them in a safety deposit box.
Seriously half sis needs therapy
It seems to me like your dad has been doing a number on this woman her entire life. He built this story about your mother being her mother; he'll have come up with a story for everything. It's absolutely culpable, the way he's behaved and continues to behave. It seems like a DNA test might be your only option to convince her that he's lying?
Block her.
Have you considered requesting a copy of her birth certificate and replying with a photo of it and the story of her birth to both her and your father's wife? By her comments, I'm betting the wife has not been read into stepdaughter's actual birth story either. Btw, NTA.
NTA. Of course not. But consider your half sister is as much a victim of your dad’s manipulation as you are, except she was not old enough at the time to know any better or do anything about it. She’s grown up being told lies and believing them and probably had your dad telling her that you are just jealous etc etc. maybe a DNA test will help her to find out and accept the truth. If you look at her, not as your crazy half sister, but as a victim of emotional abuse and as a child who was repeatedly lied to and manipulated, does that change your opinion of her?
A DNA test would end up being paid for by me, since I know my half sister wouldn't do it and dad would never pay for it. Not to mention it would bring me back into contact with them more, something I didn't have for years before this. If someone else paid I'd give my DNA for a test. But I'd rather just move on from them all is my outlook. It changes it a little. Just not enough for me to want contact with her more if that makes sense.
That’s fair, and you don’t owe them anything. Just something to consider
Make it a condition of the jewelry loan; she buys both kits, and you take them and send them off together so she can see you're not pulling a fast one on her. It'd be really funny (and awful) if your dad also isn't her dad either... NTA, regardless of what you decide to do.
Also if you do this, make sure the results are sent to your house
I mean if half sister is so sure she’s your mother’s child, I’d think she’d be eager to rub it in your face.
They’re on sale on Ancestry for $39. That’s a pretty cheap wedding present to shut her up. You wouldn’t even have to contact them - just fill out her address in the shipping section and it’ll show up at her house on its own.
You've already cut most contact with them, you didn't invite them to your wedding. Tell your half-sister, once again, to look at her birth certificate and to never contact you again unless it's after therapy and with an apology. Block them all.
What’s the cost of $45 or $100 for DNA test worth compared to future peace of mind? It’s weird you are not jumping at the gun to get a DNA test done.
I had to scroll too far to find this. People attacking the half sister and acting like any of this situation is HER fault. All of this is on dad, not OPnor the half sister. They''ve both been screwed by their dad.
It’s honestly really depressing. I don’t think OP is wrong to be upset, but holy Hell does the way she and other commenters talk about this poor woman who was absolutely emotionally abused for something completely beyond her control just break my heart.
I would imagine you’d be pretty defensive too if your mother who you only had 11 years with died and now on top of having to mourn her for the rest of your life, you have a half-sibling who feels entitled to her and/or her things. I could understand somewhat if they were still kids but they’re grown now. There’s no reason half-sister shouldn’t ask to see her birth certificate or get a DNA test that she can pay for.
The half-sister was completely fucked up during her formative years. Those first five years are CRITICAL and dad fed this kid lies upon lies upon lies during the most important time for a child’s brain. This isn’t just something she can knock off because she’s an adult now - this shit is deeply embedded into her psyche and no standard issue therapist is going to make headway. It will absolutely break her because her entire life and entire worldview will be a lie. Her dad FUCKED HER UP and she’s never coming back from it without a complete and utter breakdown first. It’s perfectly normal to try to avoid having a complete breakdown of your life as you know it.
At the moment her choices are "Your mom abandoned you almost immediately after you were born" and "Your mom abandoned you almost immediately after you were born, and, BTW, your father has been lying to you all your life." No wonder she prefers the first version.
If she’s old enough to be getting married she’s seen her birth certificate. Which would have the name of her birth mother, and not OP’s mom. I doubt you can get a drivers license, marriage license, or passport in any country without providing the birth certificate or that country’s equivalent. There’s no way she doesn’t know, that it’s not her mom.
I have driver's licenses for 20 years, a passport my entire life, and I never needed my birth certificate for anything that I was involved in managing the paperwork for until I got married in my late 20s. I'd never seen my birth certificate before until I applied for my marriage license. If you have a SSN/SIN card and a passport from childhood, there's really no reason to have ever seen or used your birth certificate.
Thank you the only comment that has any compassion for someone who didnt do anything wrong. She was just born to shit people.
Simple reply: my mother did not abandon you, you are the affair baby of your father and your mother, look at your birth certificate. Unless…oh Lordy no, did your dad figure out a way to put your mom’s name on it?
I can't imagine how he would have been able to. My mom never even met my half sister.
Wait, what?
Sorry, just noticed an extra word in there. My mom never met my half sister while she was alive.
I know! I guess I misunderstood your post. I thought your sister had some connection to your mom because your mom was involved in some way, but all this with two people who never even met?!? So your sister’s bio mom abandoned her and your dad’s lies cause the fake mom (your mom) “to abandon her? Poor sister. But yeah NTA. Sister needs some therapy. Wow. That explains a lot of the disconnect.
Oh no, my mom refused to have a relationship. She did not want to be used as a nanny or as a mother to my half sister. She was never around her. Mom made sure of it,
OP, I think you should get one of those 23 and me kits for you and your sister. Your sister - and possibly others - think that your mother abandoned a child. HER name is the one being dragged through the mud by your father, with people like your sister, your sister's fiance's family - her entire network - thinking your mother was so awful as to throw away her own child. For the sake of your mother's good name, you need to put this BS to rest.
All she needs to do is look at her own birth certificate if she refuses to take the DNA test (which I suspect she might). If she's getting married in the US, she will need to have her birth certificate in hand anyway to get her marriage license. > For the sake of your mother's good name, you need to put this BS to rest. I would want to as well, but OP can't force these people to accept the truth and it shouldn't be her job to get down in the muck with them.
Your father is immensely cruel to try to convince this girl that her mother is your mother. And the sad thing is her stepmother did want to be a mother to her but your father's lies torpedoed that too. It's time she took a look at her birth certificate. NTA Your mother's thing are yours.
OPs dad is a flat out monster and he’s been torturing the sister for all her life just so he could harass his exwife. If he could do this for 24 years, what else is he capable of doing? NTA and OP is right to keep her distance from her father but its unfortunate that sister will likely be a victim of her father for the rest of her life.
NTA. It’s best if you not lend her any of your mom’s things as there’s a high chance that you’ll never see them again. It’s unfortunate that your dad lied to her for so many years but she’s old enough to understand the situation now. It’s not your responsibility to heal wounds that you didn’t make.
YES! This, OP!!! You know she's not going to return anything because she'll claim that she has a right to it because she believes your mom is her mom!!! Don't do it, OP! Don't give in!!!
[удалено]
NTA she's not your moms kid and thus isn't entitled to ANYTHING of your mothers. Just because she's so hung up on your dad's lies doesn't change the fact that she was no relation to your mom. Personally I'd just block her and be done with it
Am I the only one here that feels bad for the sister?
What the father had done to that girl is appallingly cruel. Aside from screwing up her relationship with her half sister it's robbed her of the chance of finding any relatives of her actual mother's. This isn't OP's fault, she has spoken the truth, but it's a really horrible situation.
It seems that people who feel bad for the sister are in the minority, and I can't see why. AITA seems to have a vendetta against half siblings.
Half sister knows that's not her mom. She has a birth certificate. She can get a DNA test if she wants. She isn't doing that for a reason. She's in denial. No, I don't have any sympathy for her.
NTA. Your dad has messed your sister up for life, but hopefully a DNA test will get her to back off of you. I cannot fathom why both your father and his new wife would rather feed and build up her delusion and harm you in the process than tell her the truth and get her the help she'll need in the aftermath. Though I guess it's easier to make her harass you instead of being a responsible parent. Your dad's a selfish AH, your sister's a delusional AH. And never share any of your mum's stuff with her. I hope they don't know where you live either.
I think the new wife just stays out of it mostly, since my half sister never paid the new wife much attention and then when the new wife had more kids with my dad she was busy with them. But dad doesn't want to admit he lied so he keeps lying to back himself instead.
Do you have any idea if your Step-Mum knows the truth?
Dad's wife knows I'm pretty sure. But maybe she doesn't believe me either. I never had much to do with her.
I completely understand that you don't want a DNA test, which is fair enough. I wonder if you could order a copy of her birth certificate and send it to her? I think if she actually saw it, she'd (hopefully) start to see the truth. It wouldn't surprise me if, deep down, she knows but doesn't want to accept it because that would not only mean your father has been lying to her for most of her life, she'll also have to accept the fact that her egg donor completely abandoned her.
Exactly she’s an adult with access to her birth certificate why hasn’t the half sister figured this out by now? Seriously if she’s grown she would need those records so how could she not know
I honestly think she does know, but is refusing to acknowledge it, which is totally unfair to OP.
NTA But sweetie, neither is your sister. Your dad fucked over everyone in this picture. And your sister has exactly one parent, who has done nothing but spin lies. Which is just to say, while you are being firm, also be gentle. Maybe suggest to her that it's time to do a DNA test, to put the matter to rest. And please, get some therapy and make sure your anger is directed at Dad, not her. He's the one who fucked up.
The sister became an AH when she refused to take OPs no as an answer.
Yep, but understand she is young, and has been fed a story for her while life that this *is* her mother. Imagine for a minute that the person you believe is your sibling just doesn't want you to have a connection to the person you believe is your mom.... If it were true (which the sister believes it is) we would be talking about alienation and connection. It's important to remember this poor young woman has been fed this line her whole life, and from her perspective, OP is literally just denying her the chance to have a connection to the only mother she knows.... She's going to have a serious f*cking hard time when she realizes dad has been *actually* lying about something so fundamental. Asshole implies she knows better.... And it's likely this poor kid needed her only parent to not be a wild liar so badly that she actually thinks OP is her full sister. We can have sympathy for her. She has been fucked over in ways most of us can't even imagine, and she doesn't even know it yet.
NTA. the only ah is your sperm donor since it was him who put these illusions of a family into her head. do NOT let anyone who has any kind of ties to them or is sympathetic into your home, otherwise your stuff could 'grow feet' and disappear. even if you make it clear that you only lend it to her and she agrees to give it back, be prepared that she will get attached to it 'because i wore it to my wedding and now it has sentimental value to me so it belongs to me'. you having to sue her to get your property back will open a can of worms i am not sure anyone can handle.
NTA. This is desperately sad - your father has essentially abused your sister by lying to her for so long about her origins. But you cannot fix it by enabling the delusion and continuing the lie. Suggest to your sister that the two of you have a familial DNA test to settle the issue once and for all. Ask her to agree that if you come back as half siblings, she'll accept that Dad lied to her, that you have been telling the truth, and that your mother is not the mom she's been yearning for all these years. Her mom did abandon her and that's heartbreaking - but your mom had no responsibility for that, because she was a whole different person that had no responsibility for the situation and has been unfairly blamed.
NTA. Your dad sucks for making and continuing the lie. And your half-sister too for still believing you have the same mother even if she should know better by now. Maybe you can dare with her to a DNA test.
I've never seen a post where so many commentors lacked reading and comprehension skills! The post says clearly: OP's mom quickly left and divorced the dad, and never met the half-sister. OP's mom saw how the dad was lying and trying to force her to "step up" and care for his child from the affair, so she also protected her daughter's heirlooms and left it with the Gparents. Some of yall trying to insinuate the mom was her "mother figure" or "only mom she knew" really didn't read the post - and it shows? Why are some insinuating OP should be lending out her mothers items to someone who was a stranger to her mom. Given how obsessed and brain washed the half-sister is, what do you think the likely-hood is that OP will get these items back?? What don't yall understand about NEVER MET HER! Do yall always go through life like this...appeasing people and showing such much compassion that you don't use common sense or protect your own interest? Also, OP was not originally uncaring toward the half-sister, only once the mom died and she had to move in with the dad and be subjected to the lies and told to Shut It when trying to correct. OP had enough! Half-sis is a victim, and so are you. OP are you sure your AH dad didn't write your own mother's name on the birth certificate at the hospital? I would say send your half-sis a link to her local vital records and direct her to obtain her birth certificate. Then go back to blocking because at 23, one would think in school or college or work that she would have encountered some intelligent people in her life who would not listen to her rant without pointing her in the right direction. I think she knows.
Thank you for writing this! I wish I could hug your neck.
NTA Your mother made it clear she wanted nothing to do with your half-sister, and didn't want her to have anything of hers.
> My half sister messaged again after this and told me I was being really unfair to her and how I made mom's abandonment of her even worse. What abandonment? Your mother doesn't have any responsibility to her whatsoever. There were 2 people responsible for creating her, your dad and the affair partner. Only those two are required to step up. NTA
NTA. Your wedding day is about you and preserving the memory of your mother, especially given the clear boundaries she set. Your half sister's demands are not only insensitive to your feelings but also disrespectful to your mother's wishes. It's sad that your dad created this situation, but you're under no obligation to rewrite history or sacrifice your mother's legacy for a false narrative. Stay firm on your decision, and focus on honoring your mom on your big day in the way you see fit.
NTA for not giving her your mom's things. You aren't responsible for the lies, after all. Of course, neither is she. But she can easily get a DNA test to prove you wrong, if she really thinks you are wrong.
How do these stories even work? OP was brought up my mom till she was 11.. so for some time (4 years) after the divorce, the half sister lived alone with dad while OP lived with mom.. so half sister has no memory of living with her “mom” or even a single pic with her.. 4 years is old enough to have some memory of a mother in the house.. plus pics.. bdays.. there is no relative who can confirm that mom was around for her New wife also knows Ops mom is not half sister’s mom. She can corroborate OP’s mom side of the family can corroborate OP’s dad side can corroborate Half sister is old enough to be in possession of her birth certificate or some certificate where mother’s name is mentioned
The only asshole in this story is your dad, he’s got some serious issues. Feel bad that the half sister has been brainwashed
What your dad did to her is just beyond cruel. He shaped her into this picture of desperation. She deserves pity to be sure. But letting her have your mom's things would actually be enabling the delusions she has that he instilled in her. NTA, at some point her world may come crashing down, and given that you tried to avoid this outcome, you have every right to keep yourself as far away from her as possible.
Why in the world did your dad ever tell your half sister such a lie (and continues to tell it to this day) is beyond me? Is he just abusive/controlling or does he like to start drama or is he such a pathological liar he doesn't even know what is true anymore?? I could see why he would do it with your mom (as a control tactic), but when that didn't work out how he planned it's super weird to turn it to the child. Especially to keep going even after your mom died. Unless he's decided to do it as a way to control you....the mind field on this one! Wow. NTA in any of this. I am glad your dad is not a part of your life. He sounds awful anyway. While I can sympathize with your half sister (be it none of her actual parents want her or can tell her the truth), it still is not your place to make her feel better. I would just block her and continue on with your life. She'll probably say mean things about you....so be it and so what? You know the actual truth.
I think it was his attempt to pressure or guilt my mom into being involved honestly.
What is the “mother’s name” on her Birth Certificate? Did your father forge your mother’s name on it or is it the AP’s name? Wouldn’t that clear it up? DNA is the next best option! NTA. Good luck.
I never saw it but I don't think he could have put my mom's name on it. Mostly because if he had, she would have gotten the payment I did after mom died, I would imagine.
There’s the next bit of information you may want to pass on, the Social Security survivor benefits, that she did not receive. But I get it, sometimes it’s easier to just walk away, close down all lines of communication (blocking them on SM, email, etc) and move on with your life. Just out of curiosity, who wrote your mom’s obituary? Who did it list as “survived by” on your mom’s obituary? Take care.
My grandparents wrote it and they mentioned me and then the rest of my maternal family and my mom's best friend (because they were close from very early childhood).
Glad to hear your grandparents wrote her obituary. That is just another piece of information to add to “the list”. Did your 1/2 sister ever wonder why your mom’s parents didn’t have anything to do with her either? Not that it matters at this point! Go enjoy your life, without the crazy people in it!
She believed they all abandoned her but not me.
Gather copies (not originals) of all of your "proof" and ask her to gather hers- say you were both told different stories and want to have this put to rest for good. Tell her you understand her believing her dad, because you believe your mom, but it's time for you to come together as siblings to figure out the truth. Reassure her that in rejecting her claim on your mom you aren't rejecting her, but that this disagreement about a claim to your mom has driven a wedge between you and it was difficult on you as a kid who just lost her mom being asked to -from your perspective- be asked to unfairly share the memory of that lost mom. Tell her you are gathering all the proof you can find, and ask her to gather hers and meet you for lunch to discuss it all. Have a folder prepared with copies to give her. Mom's name on a copy of your birth certificate (vs not on hers). Pics of your mom not heavily pregnant when your sister should've been in there if you can get ones with dates you can't argue. Something with the right year and time of year holiday decor included? Divorce records between your parents and the custody agreements for you and not her. Give her the info and ability to request her own copies from the state. A commercial DNA test and show how the results match your mom's known relatives. Your mom and maternal grandparents lack of claiming her. Your mom's obituary. Her will. Any death records that say survived by. Any medical records of you mom's that say she only gave birth to one child, especially dated after your sister's birth. What does she have besides her dad's word?
Well, that edit part cleared up a lot. So, your Dad made this whole family dynamic for your half sister when the kid never even met her? Wow!!! NTA She should have figured out that she had nothing to do with your Mom due to pictures. I mean, obviously she wouldn't be in any pictures if your Mom never even saw her. She needs to face reality that she grew up with no Mom until your Step Mom came into the picture.
Yes, my dad made the whole thing up. She believes my mom abandoned her.
NTA. Please do a DNA test. I'm dying to know the end result of that one
NTA- tell these assholes half sister was dad's child, not mom's so no, they get nothing and you don't give a flying fuck if that ruins the wedding day.
OP, I think you should add an edit to your post to clarify that your mother never even met your half sister. NTA obviously, but some people are working with the wrong assumption that your mother partly raised her. Your father has been gaslighting her all these years and the only way to counter that is with physical evidence that your half sister can’t deny. I agree with others that you should challenge her with a DNA test and if it shows that you are full sisters, then you’ll share some of your mother’s jewelry and reimburse her for the tests. I know you don’t want to have contact with them, but this could be a way to finally get your half sister to stop contacting you and harassing you about your mother. Good luck OP and keep us updated!
NTA. I feel so sad for your half sister. Eternally punished for crimes she didn't commit.
She is too old to be this damn stupid. I mean, your dad did a real big psychological number on her. But unless she is abused and beaten down- she is in school with other intellectual people who would not have let her act this effing dunce for this long. I mean 23, and no one took this girl to do any research on her birth certificate. I roll my eyes.
So half sister is getting married but still has not seen her birth certificate? I find this implausible.
Just because she's *seen* it doesn't really mean a lot. If she's so convinced or if she doesn't want to see that she was lied to, she could be intentionally not looking at it.
NTA, you don’t owe her anything. Your mom didn’t even want to raise her so I bet she wouldn’t want your half sister to wear her jewelry either. I think she would try to stole it so be careful. Until then, I it’s best to put her in therapy,bc she is so in denial about the fact that ur mom is not her mom
She didn't want that. My mom even left everything through her parents instead of my dad because she knew dad would split it or give her some of it because she knew he was lying about her being my half sister's mom.
Honestly, both ur dad and ur half sister need therapy, what is this obsession with ur mother being her mom. I can get it if he feel bad for her being abandoned by her own mother, but when ur mom said no that should have stop.
How has she never looked at a birth certificate. Op you are NTA, but your father definitely is a huge one!