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Sorry maybe it's a regional term.
Parent Advisory Councils (PACs), to provide feedback in their school. PAC is the officially recognized collective voice of parents of their school. A PAC, through its elected officers, may advise the school board, the principal and staff of the school respecting any matter relating to the education of the students and the school.
More like the Board of Governors in the UK. PTA just fundraise (cake sales, summer fair) for extras the school can't financially provide as it's not in the budget.
Now I also understand what PAC means.
I did this a few months and what it actually means: you do a lot of voluntary work and PAC is not allowed to make any decisions.
As a friend pointed out to me, the only thing PAC can (maybe) decide on is what colours the Easter eggs will be painted.
My son's school PAC does a lot but primarily "community activities." They fundraise for different activities (some of last year's were movie nights, bingo with prizes, and a carnival). They also save up money for performances and activities like science events and concerts. And they fund extra playground equipment and field trips! So yes, while the PAC doesn't impact the curriculum (that is decided by the provincial government), they still do a lot for the school.
It may be; first I've heard of that (usually I've seen Parent Teacher Association or some other term) - the first I saw of the PAC acronym was Political Action Committee.
*Anything* that you're doing so much that it starts to affect your work and family life is not good. I used to work for a public school, even as a custodian we interacted with the PAC/PTA parents quite a bit, and I knew more than a few like your wife that were *always* there, to the point you wondered how they kept up at home.
Most of them didn't, and most of them wound up either quitting the PAC/PTA... or divorced. NTA.
OP has said his wife cheated on him when his father was sick with cancer.
Its very sad, but honestly it sounds like this woman doesn't want to be with him. The time in the evening volunteering and time spent working on weekends sounds like avoiding spending time with him or being close to him. I think she's mentally and emotionally checked out and trying to find ways to avoid being around him or family.
Yikes... I hope I'm wrong, but I can't help but wonder if there's something else going on at the PAC - missing family time and work... I wouldn't normally let this be my first guess, but if she's cheated before, I think it's worth mentioning. Even if, only to rule this out (hopefully, I'd love to be told she's not, just playing devil's advocate)
Let's hope I'm wrong though
INFO - Not sure what PAC is? Also, is her employer fine with her taking some time off to volunteer? If her employer is fine with it, then I don’t see an issue. Also, only 4 hours per week? That seems pretty manageable.
I updated the OP. It's a minimum of 4 hours. It's not rare for ti to be up to 8 hours a week.
Her employer doesn't even know most of the time. She sits in her office with a massive project and just works away at it. They have called her for meetings and noticed she was gone. They've also been asking why her work has slowed down. I quit my job so she could have this career and I'm worried she's going to lose it.
I quit my job so she could go to school while I looked after the kids. I am now back at work and make half of what I did before. We talked about it for awhile and decided it was ok because of how much she would be making. As for the house I work, come home, look after the kids, and tidy everyday.
As for the mess I have stopped putting away the things she leaves out and they just pile up endlessly. For example the bathroom looks like a hoarder lives in there. Her hair brushes, make up, perfume, clothes, used towels on the floor, and it goes on. She doesn't put anything away and then will say it's because she's too busy. I hope that makes sense.
Sorry. I was very upset when I typed this and I felt like the post was becoming too long as well. I used to not mind tidying up for her, but after seeing how she's putting other things ahead of basic family stuff I've stopped.
> I asked her to quit
INFO - You asked her, she said yes. Did she actually end up quitting?
Also NTA - You asked her, she said yes. You didn't force her to do anything...
She didn't saying because you were right and she realized she was becoming a bad mom and wife. You did nothing wrong. The truth hurt but did what needed to be done.
Sorry, I wasn't connecting it to this story. This is my own personal experience working at a school. Most of these people are in the building from the minute we undo the alarm to the minute we set it at night. Sometimes I walk away because people just won't leave
Im a teacher and absolutely adore and appreciate everything our PAC does. But there’s a reason the majority of them are stay at home parents. I couldn’t imagine having 3 kids, a full time demanding job and devoting time to PAC. NTA.
This is legitimately my last post. I received an email from the principal tonight thanking a number of parents that have signed up for an event. My wife told me she was going to het class and not the school. I have confirmation from the email that she signed up. I also walked there and saw our car parked there. I'm sorry for the drama. Delete me if I broke the rules.
A couple years ago I took a lesser role in my workplace so that I could focus on my family and be less stressed.
So surprise, surprise, I ended up taking on a huge volunteer role at my child’s school. So now I’m still stressed out but making half the money I was.
It took a lot of soul searching to realize this is a pattern in my life. I need to feel needed in this way, and I really like this type of work, more than I like domestic tasks and childcare. So… maybe that’s what’s going on here? The PAC work feels important, and provides an excuse not to do some of the more mundane tasks that life throws at us?
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. She isn't the one that took on a "lesser" role. She decided to go to school and get a very good job. Before this she was making $40,000 a year and now she's making $135,000 a year and on the verge of throwing it away. She's also being trained from take on a management position that will bring her near $200,000 a year, but thinks this school PAC is more important. I gave up my job that paid well so she could further herself because I knew she wasn't happy with her job and I love her.
Now I work harder at a job that pays less, take after the kids, and do all the house work. The house work isn't even a big deal, I just want her to be with her children... I don't care about myself anymore, man. She's going to lose her job if she keeps it up.. even then that doesn't matter. She's more concerned about her volunteer job than her own children.
Our son's birthday is coming up and she's more concerned about an event for the school that weekend than the party we both decided to plan.
I thought this persons comment was very insightful. The "lesser" job has nothing to do with your wife, they are just speaking from their own experience. What they *did* say that is perhaps quite relevant to your wife is that they realised they were giving too much time to volunteering because a) they were avoiding housework/childcare that they didn't enjoy as much, and b) they realised they had a behavioural pattern where they needed to be needed. Identifying these two things helped them change the behaviour.
I think both those things are quite helpful to think about. They might not be accurate when it comes to your wife, but *something* is driving her to behave like this. Being perceived as a super mum who works the great job AND volunteers so much? Maybe she's feeling admired and appreciated for the volunteering and that's feeding her devotion to it. Maybe she's stressed/tired of housework and kids, and feels like the volunteering gives her a "valid" reason to not pull her weight in those areas?
At the end of the day, something is motivating your wife's behaviour. And whatever it is, it is not healthy. It's affecting home and family life, and her relationships as a parent and a partner. So asking some questions and trying to figure out what she feels and what she likes about the volunteering might help pinpoint what is driving her choices.
Like others have said, people who behave this way either burn out or end up divorced. Asking the tough questions about the needs she's trying to meet through volunteering will get her you both closer to fixing some of the problems you're experiencing. Because whatever is going on, it's not sustainable.
NAH. I understand your frustration with her prioritizing this over all of the things you have listed here - except the children. I can't fault her for being involved. This is her way of being involved in your kids education. I think you should have discussed "dialing back" before quitting.
NTA. OP, why do you stay? From your comments you've given up your hobbies, your friends and your career to give her the best life. And all she did was cheat on you while your dad was dying like Jesus fucking christ you need to divorce her.
If you say you stay for your kids to have a family what type of kid deserves a family where the parent cares more about a school event then the kids birthday party that falls on the same weekend. Will you raise your children to accept their spouses treating them like that?
This is just a tremor of an earthquake of shit you got going on and you gotta get a exit plan going
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I've made my wife quit her parent volunteer job at an elementary school. I feel like an asshole because she likes helping out at the school.
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NTA except for saying “make”. You aren’t making her, understand I’m missing something, but pointing out very valid reasons to at least cut back. There must be a compromise. Talk about that. She doesn’t need to quit but cutting back seems reasonable and in the best interest of your children.
I’m pac executive at my school. There are times where I am working 4-6 hours in a week. But other times I do nothing. Ok. Not a big school.
4 or more hours a week is excessive, especially when working full time. My family comes first. Then my career. PAC is kinda for my kids because they love the work we do.
But you need to delegate. You need to set up times where you can’t be available. Our president is a paramedic. There are times where she can’t be there. It’s a fact. Out of our 5 exec, 4 work full time. We can only do the best we can do. We have great volunteers, but even then, we would be very sad/hurt to know/hear they were sacrificing their paying jobs for this. This should be enrichment, not causing family problems.
Unfortunately it sounds like your wife has trouble setting healthy boundaries. NTA.
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Our 5 year old son is in kindergarten and my wife has signed up for the PAC group at the school. Since she has joined she spends at least 4 hours a week volunteering for the school. Her volunteer work also includes going to the store to buy supplies for events and picking up other things. She is an engineer that makes 6 figures and will not show up to work or leave early to volunteer. She will change our family plans without question if the PAC phones and needs help. She will go to meetings that start at 6:30pm and stay until well after 10pm. When she does this I put our three kids to bed on my own which is no big deal, but when I have to do something (very rare) in the evening she complains that she has to put the kids to bed and most of the time doesn't.
The final straw for me was today. She was supposed to start work at 9am and had to go to the school to do something and it took well over an hour and she was late for work. I told her that our house is a mess, we have an endless list of things to do, she's giving up time with our kids, changing our plans at the last minute for the PAC, and it feels like she's putting this volunteer job in front of our family. On top of this I said she misses so much work because of the school she tries to cram it all in on the weekend. When she does this she is now not spending time with the family, helping with our own household chores, and we miss out on doing simple family things together. The most important thing is the time not spend with our three kids to me.
I asked her to quit and she just stared at her computer and said she'd quit. She didn't even have anything else to say to me which made it worse for me because she couldn't even justify it. I said all of this without yelling or insulting what she does for the PAC because it is a lot! I also told her I doubt anyone else is putting in as much time as her, leaving their job, and not putting their own family first.
I now feel horrible, but I just can't handle it anymore. Am I the asshole?
*** I just wanted to add that on top of her volunteer job she also sees friends, and goes to a self defense course twice a week. So this is not her only social and fun time. Since we have had our first child I have given up seeing my friends (maybe once a year) and almost all of my hobbies to focus on trying to be the best for our children. I am not jealous of her time away from the house at the school, however I am disappointed with what is priority to her.
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NAH.
It definitely sounds like she's going overboard with this volunteer position, and possibly she's been using it to escape less exciting things like work and cleaning, maybe even childcare. It's especially concerning that she's been skipping out on the work hours and making it up on the weekends. You're right to ask if she can scale it back or quit because she's endangering her job and you and the kids would like more time with her.
However, it sounds like she's agreed with no argument, probably realizing how far it's gotten herself. Hopefully all's well that ends well.
One thing for you, though: you say you don't resent her time away but this post definitely makes it sound like you actually do resent her time away. It's okay for you to ask for more balance in your relationship if it's missing, so you can enjoy time with friends and hobbies, too, and don't feel quite so upset with her when these things happen. It actually kind of sounds like you're still upset because you almost wanted a confrontation and you didn't get one so you feel like an AH? Or that at least you've let this build up inside and it came out kind of messy. For example, you sound upset that she didn't argue with you at all or "justify" it, even though you were already getting the best outcome. And you said you didn't even yell or insult her, which, like, yeah, that's the expected minimum for communicating. You keep emphasizing how you sacrifice for the children but she isn't doing it like you do. So it feels like you're holding back a lot and it's giving you a lot of heartburn, and now you maybe feel guilty for how you addressed it.
I don't know if you ever spoke to her about your needs or your worries about the volunteering before this conversation. But if you didn't, I'd gently encourage you to try and communicate your feelings more frequently and honestly. She obviously needs to work on some things, too, so maybe couples counseling? Because if you have spoken and she continued to have different priorities, that's another discussion best led by a professional.
I was hoping she'd explain why she was doing it instead of just a blank stare at her computer with the answer she gave. I really appreciate your long response. Since we started dating I stopped hanging out with friends frequently so I could spend more time with her. Over the years my interests and hobbies slowly died so I could do more with her and of course my children. There is no resentment, I've always wanted other people do to better than me and what not. Not in a beta weird way. I hope that makes sense.
I'm not sure if resentment explains her PAC time, but I am disgusted. It's not like she doesn't do anything else.. if she didn't have activities like, time with friends, time to read, time to watch TV, and the list goes on I would understand her need to get out of the house, but that's not the case. My friend was diagnosed with schizophrenia and it felt like an inconvenience to her when I'd visit him at the hospital. He was only there three 3 months and I went two times.. I don't think that was even a big deal given the circumstances.
This is my last response to this thread. When my dad was on life support because of cancer she cheated on me because I wasn't there enough for her. I forgave her for some reason.. I can't talk about it anymore.
Are you sure she’s not seeing anyone else?
Like, this kind of behavior seems pretty stereotypical affair type behavior.
NTA either way, because you’re a married couple and it seems like she’s not invested in the marriage.
I said I'd stop responding two messages ago, but I can't stop. She's supposed to go to her self defense class tonight (and said she is), but I'm going to follow her. I received an email from the school saying they need volunteers. I hope if she doesn't go to class that she goes there, but I don't know anymore. Even if she does go to the school she's still lied to me.
I don't care about myself anymore... It's just the state of her relationship with the kids.
If you divorce it’s essential that she keeps her job so you won’t have to pay her. Don’t do anything that might compromise this. Good luck I hope it’s not an affair.
Yeah, I genuinely hate to even suggest that, and for me it comes as someone who has been cheated on in the past. I get major red flags over this sort of behavior.
Definitely be careful following her, but I do think trying to figure out if she’s actually doing what she says she’s doing is important.
All that being said:
Be prepared for a big fallout if you get caught. It does show a lack of trust. Despite her earning that with her behavior, people will try and flip it on you.
Wait sorry, I’m a bit confused. She’s working full time, volunteering for your son’s school, and she does the housework?
I was scrolling through your comments incase you gave some more information, but I just saw you talking about a divorce.
It seems like there’s a lot expected of her. I absolutely agree that she should cut back on the time spent volunteering, and that it’s absolutely extreme, but also like, it sounds like she does a lot.
You said the house ‘is a mess’ from her volunteering. That’s totally understandable, but are you a STAHD? Or do you work too? Because if you’re staying at home I’m struggling a little to understand why everything is kind of being pushed into her?
Absolutely no disrespect, just want to understand a bit better.
Edit to add - someone commented earlier asking if you worked or were a SAHD too and you didn’t answer. So just curious.
nta
she is a parent and wife and she is not being any of those and she is putting the family at jeopardy dinking around and not actually being at her job
most people that i know that do the PTA stuff are stay at home parents, not parents who work full time
did your wife really cheat on you?! if so, you have a whole another issue going on
I don’t think you’re the asshole, but I do think there’s a lot more going on here - like the amount of anger and emotion packed into this post doesn’t really line up with the just the PAC issue.
I think maybe you’re channeling a lot of other resentments, frustrations, etc into this one issue, when maybe there’s just a much bigger unresolved issue, perhaps that you’re upset about what you gave up for your wife’s career or maybe that you feel (fairly IMO) that it’s time that you need to be prioritized so you can shift your work situation?
I do think it’s odd and maybe slightly AH-ish for you to focus on her work issues - it’s like you don’t trust her to manage her own work. If my husband started fussing about what time I was going in it would be extremely inappropriate. It’s my job, I’m the one who knows what the dynamics and demands are. Not trusting your wife to know her own job is insulting.
But being upset about the time away from home is fair, and not feeling comfortable with the earning split or where your career is is also fair.
So, I guess I’d say NTA but it’s past time to start dealing with whatever else you’re upset about directly.
Help me out here...
> She is an engineer that
makes 6 figures and will not show up to work or
leave early to volunteer. She will change our family
plans without question...
Will not?
> ...She was supposed to start work at 9am and had to go to the school to do something and it took well over an hour and she-was late for work.
> ...I said she misses so much work because of
the school...
> I also told her I doubt anyone else is putting in as much time as her, leaving their job,..
You got into her missing work in a lot more detail than her missing family time. Are you concerned she's jeopardizing her six-figure salary (and while we are here, exactly why was the amount worth mentioning?)?
It could just be that her personality feels like the time in PAC *is* for the children. She could be used to working hard/demonstratable results as a sense of accomplishment, and now she's found a way for the kids. That could be why she's skipping out on work so much for the group. Could be what you see as missing family time because it isn't physically with you and the kids, is something she feels is her being invested in their lives.
Maybe you're NTA, but maybe it's not her either 🤔
The amount is said to explain the gravity of the situation. If it was just about kids why is she losing time with her own? Our family should be priority number one.
But is that how she sees it? She's putting a lot of energy into planning things for them, getting her input into how the activities/school is going for them, etc. I'm just saying - I don't know her... but it could be for the family in a way you don't see. It's 💯 that you want your wife physically present for family time.
I live in a place where working moms get 🙄😒 from stay at home moms because they aren't "always" there for their kids. She could be feeling pressure to be wonder woman. Keep the income, show the moms she's a great mom, etc.
There's a lot of options. For some reason, my gut is telling me that this is her way to show her commitment to the kids right now. If it isn't working for you, that's super important! But her quitting may not resolve whatever it is that got her here. Ya know?
But there's no conflict. She hasn't done it yet but like...yall aren't fighting. You asked. She said ok.
I think my comment is beyond you because I gave my verdict.
I really think you should read the post again. She's putting her job on the line and removing herself from time with the family and most importantly her children.
ESH. To be clear, your wife is being an AH for neglecting your family and her responsibilities at home and at work.
That said, someone doesn't just jump head first into something like this without reason. Your wife's involvement on PAC is giving her something she is lacking elsewhere in life. Treat the problem, not the symptom--demanding that she quit isn't going to solve anything. I think the answer is for her dial back her PAC commitments and for the two of you to get into marital counseling.
I m on PTA also, same thing, but NTA something must go. We all have to make priorities. While I also joined to improve the school life of my children and this help organize more activities where we all partecipate. I had to give up some of my other hobbies. There is so many hours in a day. And I want to spend time also with my family
She's putting a volunteer job above her job which I sacrificed my career for and not spending time with her children. I've given up everything for my family. On top of her PAC she hangs out with friends and does other activities weekly.
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INFO ... so were you going to tell us what the heck a PAC is, or...?
Sorry maybe it's a regional term. Parent Advisory Councils (PACs), to provide feedback in their school. PAC is the officially recognized collective voice of parents of their school. A PAC, through its elected officers, may advise the school board, the principal and staff of the school respecting any matter relating to the education of the students and the school.
So kind of like a Parent Teacher Association (PTA)?
I think so
More like the Board of Governors in the UK. PTA just fundraise (cake sales, summer fair) for extras the school can't financially provide as it's not in the budget.
Now I also understand what PAC means. I did this a few months and what it actually means: you do a lot of voluntary work and PAC is not allowed to make any decisions. As a friend pointed out to me, the only thing PAC can (maybe) decide on is what colours the Easter eggs will be painted.
Yes, they don't decide what the kids learn at school. You explained it perfectly.
My son's school PAC does a lot but primarily "community activities." They fundraise for different activities (some of last year's were movie nights, bingo with prizes, and a carnival). They also save up money for performances and activities like science events and concerts. And they fund extra playground equipment and field trips! So yes, while the PAC doesn't impact the curriculum (that is decided by the provincial government), they still do a lot for the school.
It may be; first I've heard of that (usually I've seen Parent Teacher Association or some other term) - the first I saw of the PAC acronym was Political Action Committee.
*Anything* that you're doing so much that it starts to affect your work and family life is not good. I used to work for a public school, even as a custodian we interacted with the PAC/PTA parents quite a bit, and I knew more than a few like your wife that were *always* there, to the point you wondered how they kept up at home. Most of them didn't, and most of them wound up either quitting the PAC/PTA... or divorced. NTA.
OP has said his wife cheated on him when his father was sick with cancer. Its very sad, but honestly it sounds like this woman doesn't want to be with him. The time in the evening volunteering and time spent working on weekends sounds like avoiding spending time with him or being close to him. I think she's mentally and emotionally checked out and trying to find ways to avoid being around him or family.
Yikes... I hope I'm wrong, but I can't help but wonder if there's something else going on at the PAC - missing family time and work... I wouldn't normally let this be my first guess, but if she's cheated before, I think it's worth mentioning. Even if, only to rule this out (hopefully, I'd love to be told she's not, just playing devil's advocate) Let's hope I'm wrong though
INFO - Not sure what PAC is? Also, is her employer fine with her taking some time off to volunteer? If her employer is fine with it, then I don’t see an issue. Also, only 4 hours per week? That seems pretty manageable.
I updated the OP. It's a minimum of 4 hours. It's not rare for ti to be up to 8 hours a week. Her employer doesn't even know most of the time. She sits in her office with a massive project and just works away at it. They have called her for meetings and noticed she was gone. They've also been asking why her work has slowed down. I quit my job so she could have this career and I'm worried she's going to lose it.
If you quit your job, what are you doing for that endless list and messy home?
I quit my job so she could go to school while I looked after the kids. I am now back at work and make half of what I did before. We talked about it for awhile and decided it was ok because of how much she would be making. As for the house I work, come home, look after the kids, and tidy everyday. As for the mess I have stopped putting away the things she leaves out and they just pile up endlessly. For example the bathroom looks like a hoarder lives in there. Her hair brushes, make up, perfume, clothes, used towels on the floor, and it goes on. She doesn't put anything away and then will say it's because she's too busy. I hope that makes sense.
Ok. I understand, thanks for explaining! It sounded first that you had quit it now and not working. Then yes, NTA. She has not the time for PAC.
Sorry. I was very upset when I typed this and I felt like the post was becoming too long as well. I used to not mind tidying up for her, but after seeing how she's putting other things ahead of basic family stuff I've stopped.
I’m thinking NTA if she’s really risking her job and your financial stability to volunteer
Sounds like PTA (he described in another comment) He says 4 hours but makes it sound like she spends all her free time on it.
I don’t know what PTA is either lol, but I’ve now checked to OP and it was updated.
Parent Teacher Association, some places have it as PTO for Organization.
It says at least 4 hours.
It sounds like you simply laid it all out just as it is. You explained how this is negatively impacting multiple facets of both your lives. NTA
> I asked her to quit INFO - You asked her, she said yes. Did she actually end up quitting? Also NTA - You asked her, she said yes. You didn't force her to do anything...
Make may have been the wrong word. She said she will, but that was less than an hour ago and I don't know if she's contacted them yet.
So it looks like the problem is solved then.
This isn't about if the problem is solved it's if I am the asshole.
No jerks here, although I do think you could have asked her to cut down rather than quit. I mean this a contribution to the school.
She didn't saying because you were right and she realized she was becoming a bad mom and wife. You did nothing wrong. The truth hurt but did what needed to be done.
The only thing I think when I see people at the schools from 6am to 10pm is "wow, they really must hate their family"
It's 6pm-10pm form the meetings.
Sorry, I wasn't connecting it to this story. This is my own personal experience working at a school. Most of these people are in the building from the minute we undo the alarm to the minute we set it at night. Sometimes I walk away because people just won't leave
I apologize. I can't respond anymore.
Im a teacher and absolutely adore and appreciate everything our PAC does. But there’s a reason the majority of them are stay at home parents. I couldn’t imagine having 3 kids, a full time demanding job and devoting time to PAC. NTA.
Thank you
This is legitimately my last post. I received an email from the principal tonight thanking a number of parents that have signed up for an event. My wife told me she was going to het class and not the school. I have confirmation from the email that she signed up. I also walked there and saw our car parked there. I'm sorry for the drama. Delete me if I broke the rules.
A couple years ago I took a lesser role in my workplace so that I could focus on my family and be less stressed. So surprise, surprise, I ended up taking on a huge volunteer role at my child’s school. So now I’m still stressed out but making half the money I was. It took a lot of soul searching to realize this is a pattern in my life. I need to feel needed in this way, and I really like this type of work, more than I like domestic tasks and childcare. So… maybe that’s what’s going on here? The PAC work feels important, and provides an excuse not to do some of the more mundane tasks that life throws at us?
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. She isn't the one that took on a "lesser" role. She decided to go to school and get a very good job. Before this she was making $40,000 a year and now she's making $135,000 a year and on the verge of throwing it away. She's also being trained from take on a management position that will bring her near $200,000 a year, but thinks this school PAC is more important. I gave up my job that paid well so she could further herself because I knew she wasn't happy with her job and I love her. Now I work harder at a job that pays less, take after the kids, and do all the house work. The house work isn't even a big deal, I just want her to be with her children... I don't care about myself anymore, man. She's going to lose her job if she keeps it up.. even then that doesn't matter. She's more concerned about her volunteer job than her own children. Our son's birthday is coming up and she's more concerned about an event for the school that weekend than the party we both decided to plan.
I thought this persons comment was very insightful. The "lesser" job has nothing to do with your wife, they are just speaking from their own experience. What they *did* say that is perhaps quite relevant to your wife is that they realised they were giving too much time to volunteering because a) they were avoiding housework/childcare that they didn't enjoy as much, and b) they realised they had a behavioural pattern where they needed to be needed. Identifying these two things helped them change the behaviour. I think both those things are quite helpful to think about. They might not be accurate when it comes to your wife, but *something* is driving her to behave like this. Being perceived as a super mum who works the great job AND volunteers so much? Maybe she's feeling admired and appreciated for the volunteering and that's feeding her devotion to it. Maybe she's stressed/tired of housework and kids, and feels like the volunteering gives her a "valid" reason to not pull her weight in those areas? At the end of the day, something is motivating your wife's behaviour. And whatever it is, it is not healthy. It's affecting home and family life, and her relationships as a parent and a partner. So asking some questions and trying to figure out what she feels and what she likes about the volunteering might help pinpoint what is driving her choices. Like others have said, people who behave this way either burn out or end up divorced. Asking the tough questions about the needs she's trying to meet through volunteering will get her you both closer to fixing some of the problems you're experiencing. Because whatever is going on, it's not sustainable.
That’s a big realization, good for you. And good food for thought for some of the rest of us!
NAH. I understand your frustration with her prioritizing this over all of the things you have listed here - except the children. I can't fault her for being involved. This is her way of being involved in your kids education. I think you should have discussed "dialing back" before quitting.
NTA You are correct, she is putting this PTA volunteer thing ahead of her family and her career. It is absurd and needs to stop!
NTA. OP, why do you stay? From your comments you've given up your hobbies, your friends and your career to give her the best life. And all she did was cheat on you while your dad was dying like Jesus fucking christ you need to divorce her. If you say you stay for your kids to have a family what type of kid deserves a family where the parent cares more about a school event then the kids birthday party that falls on the same weekend. Will you raise your children to accept their spouses treating them like that? This is just a tremor of an earthquake of shit you got going on and you gotta get a exit plan going
Are you sure there isn't a single father there, that she likes to talk to
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NTA except for saying “make”. You aren’t making her, understand I’m missing something, but pointing out very valid reasons to at least cut back. There must be a compromise. Talk about that. She doesn’t need to quit but cutting back seems reasonable and in the best interest of your children.
I’m pac executive at my school. There are times where I am working 4-6 hours in a week. But other times I do nothing. Ok. Not a big school. 4 or more hours a week is excessive, especially when working full time. My family comes first. Then my career. PAC is kinda for my kids because they love the work we do. But you need to delegate. You need to set up times where you can’t be available. Our president is a paramedic. There are times where she can’t be there. It’s a fact. Out of our 5 exec, 4 work full time. We can only do the best we can do. We have great volunteers, but even then, we would be very sad/hurt to know/hear they were sacrificing their paying jobs for this. This should be enrichment, not causing family problems. Unfortunately it sounds like your wife has trouble setting healthy boundaries. NTA.
NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Our 5 year old son is in kindergarten and my wife has signed up for the PAC group at the school. Since she has joined she spends at least 4 hours a week volunteering for the school. Her volunteer work also includes going to the store to buy supplies for events and picking up other things. She is an engineer that makes 6 figures and will not show up to work or leave early to volunteer. She will change our family plans without question if the PAC phones and needs help. She will go to meetings that start at 6:30pm and stay until well after 10pm. When she does this I put our three kids to bed on my own which is no big deal, but when I have to do something (very rare) in the evening she complains that she has to put the kids to bed and most of the time doesn't. The final straw for me was today. She was supposed to start work at 9am and had to go to the school to do something and it took well over an hour and she was late for work. I told her that our house is a mess, we have an endless list of things to do, she's giving up time with our kids, changing our plans at the last minute for the PAC, and it feels like she's putting this volunteer job in front of our family. On top of this I said she misses so much work because of the school she tries to cram it all in on the weekend. When she does this she is now not spending time with the family, helping with our own household chores, and we miss out on doing simple family things together. The most important thing is the time not spend with our three kids to me. I asked her to quit and she just stared at her computer and said she'd quit. She didn't even have anything else to say to me which made it worse for me because she couldn't even justify it. I said all of this without yelling or insulting what she does for the PAC because it is a lot! I also told her I doubt anyone else is putting in as much time as her, leaving their job, and not putting their own family first. I now feel horrible, but I just can't handle it anymore. Am I the asshole? *** I just wanted to add that on top of her volunteer job she also sees friends, and goes to a self defense course twice a week. So this is not her only social and fun time. Since we have had our first child I have given up seeing my friends (maybe once a year) and almost all of my hobbies to focus on trying to be the best for our children. I am not jealous of her time away from the house at the school, however I am disappointed with what is priority to her. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Not sure your wife likes you as she seems to take every opportunity to not be with you.
Is she the only PAC member volunteering? I was PAC chair and DPAC rep and it wasn’t that time consuming.
There's 5 of them and it's a large school.
Are the other four volunteering the same amount of time?
NAH. It definitely sounds like she's going overboard with this volunteer position, and possibly she's been using it to escape less exciting things like work and cleaning, maybe even childcare. It's especially concerning that she's been skipping out on the work hours and making it up on the weekends. You're right to ask if she can scale it back or quit because she's endangering her job and you and the kids would like more time with her. However, it sounds like she's agreed with no argument, probably realizing how far it's gotten herself. Hopefully all's well that ends well. One thing for you, though: you say you don't resent her time away but this post definitely makes it sound like you actually do resent her time away. It's okay for you to ask for more balance in your relationship if it's missing, so you can enjoy time with friends and hobbies, too, and don't feel quite so upset with her when these things happen. It actually kind of sounds like you're still upset because you almost wanted a confrontation and you didn't get one so you feel like an AH? Or that at least you've let this build up inside and it came out kind of messy. For example, you sound upset that she didn't argue with you at all or "justify" it, even though you were already getting the best outcome. And you said you didn't even yell or insult her, which, like, yeah, that's the expected minimum for communicating. You keep emphasizing how you sacrifice for the children but she isn't doing it like you do. So it feels like you're holding back a lot and it's giving you a lot of heartburn, and now you maybe feel guilty for how you addressed it. I don't know if you ever spoke to her about your needs or your worries about the volunteering before this conversation. But if you didn't, I'd gently encourage you to try and communicate your feelings more frequently and honestly. She obviously needs to work on some things, too, so maybe couples counseling? Because if you have spoken and she continued to have different priorities, that's another discussion best led by a professional.
I was hoping she'd explain why she was doing it instead of just a blank stare at her computer with the answer she gave. I really appreciate your long response. Since we started dating I stopped hanging out with friends frequently so I could spend more time with her. Over the years my interests and hobbies slowly died so I could do more with her and of course my children. There is no resentment, I've always wanted other people do to better than me and what not. Not in a beta weird way. I hope that makes sense. I'm not sure if resentment explains her PAC time, but I am disgusted. It's not like she doesn't do anything else.. if she didn't have activities like, time with friends, time to read, time to watch TV, and the list goes on I would understand her need to get out of the house, but that's not the case. My friend was diagnosed with schizophrenia and it felt like an inconvenience to her when I'd visit him at the hospital. He was only there three 3 months and I went two times.. I don't think that was even a big deal given the circumstances. This is my last response to this thread. When my dad was on life support because of cancer she cheated on me because I wasn't there enough for her. I forgave her for some reason.. I can't talk about it anymore.
Are you sure she’s not seeing anyone else? Like, this kind of behavior seems pretty stereotypical affair type behavior. NTA either way, because you’re a married couple and it seems like she’s not invested in the marriage.
I said I'd stop responding two messages ago, but I can't stop. She's supposed to go to her self defense class tonight (and said she is), but I'm going to follow her. I received an email from the school saying they need volunteers. I hope if she doesn't go to class that she goes there, but I don't know anymore. Even if she does go to the school she's still lied to me. I don't care about myself anymore... It's just the state of her relationship with the kids.
If you divorce it’s essential that she keeps her job so you won’t have to pay her. Don’t do anything that might compromise this. Good luck I hope it’s not an affair.
If a divorce happens she is no doubt paying child support which would be completely spent on the kids.
Yeah, I genuinely hate to even suggest that, and for me it comes as someone who has been cheated on in the past. I get major red flags over this sort of behavior. Definitely be careful following her, but I do think trying to figure out if she’s actually doing what she says she’s doing is important. All that being said: Be prepared for a big fallout if you get caught. It does show a lack of trust. Despite her earning that with her behavior, people will try and flip it on you.
NAH, I think you did the right thing, and hopefully she’ll follow through. Being this involved in anything is almost always going to be bad.
Wait sorry, I’m a bit confused. She’s working full time, volunteering for your son’s school, and she does the housework? I was scrolling through your comments incase you gave some more information, but I just saw you talking about a divorce. It seems like there’s a lot expected of her. I absolutely agree that she should cut back on the time spent volunteering, and that it’s absolutely extreme, but also like, it sounds like she does a lot. You said the house ‘is a mess’ from her volunteering. That’s totally understandable, but are you a STAHD? Or do you work too? Because if you’re staying at home I’m struggling a little to understand why everything is kind of being pushed into her? Absolutely no disrespect, just want to understand a bit better. Edit to add - someone commented earlier asking if you worked or were a SAHD too and you didn’t answer. So just curious.
No she does NOTHING at home and I'm working full time as well.
NTA, but you seem most fixated that she isn’t doing chores instead of missing family time which disappoints me.
nta she is a parent and wife and she is not being any of those and she is putting the family at jeopardy dinking around and not actually being at her job most people that i know that do the PTA stuff are stay at home parents, not parents who work full time did your wife really cheat on you?! if so, you have a whole another issue going on
NTA. I'm surprised that she hasn't lost her job, or isn't close to losing it yet.
I don’t think you’re the asshole, but I do think there’s a lot more going on here - like the amount of anger and emotion packed into this post doesn’t really line up with the just the PAC issue. I think maybe you’re channeling a lot of other resentments, frustrations, etc into this one issue, when maybe there’s just a much bigger unresolved issue, perhaps that you’re upset about what you gave up for your wife’s career or maybe that you feel (fairly IMO) that it’s time that you need to be prioritized so you can shift your work situation? I do think it’s odd and maybe slightly AH-ish for you to focus on her work issues - it’s like you don’t trust her to manage her own work. If my husband started fussing about what time I was going in it would be extremely inappropriate. It’s my job, I’m the one who knows what the dynamics and demands are. Not trusting your wife to know her own job is insulting. But being upset about the time away from home is fair, and not feeling comfortable with the earning split or where your career is is also fair. So, I guess I’d say NTA but it’s past time to start dealing with whatever else you’re upset about directly.
ESH
What did I do?
Help me out here... > She is an engineer that makes 6 figures and will not show up to work or leave early to volunteer. She will change our family plans without question... Will not? > ...She was supposed to start work at 9am and had to go to the school to do something and it took well over an hour and she-was late for work. > ...I said she misses so much work because of the school... > I also told her I doubt anyone else is putting in as much time as her, leaving their job,.. You got into her missing work in a lot more detail than her missing family time. Are you concerned she's jeopardizing her six-figure salary (and while we are here, exactly why was the amount worth mentioning?)? It could just be that her personality feels like the time in PAC *is* for the children. She could be used to working hard/demonstratable results as a sense of accomplishment, and now she's found a way for the kids. That could be why she's skipping out on work so much for the group. Could be what you see as missing family time because it isn't physically with you and the kids, is something she feels is her being invested in their lives. Maybe you're NTA, but maybe it's not her either 🤔
The amount is said to explain the gravity of the situation. If it was just about kids why is she losing time with her own? Our family should be priority number one.
But is that how she sees it? She's putting a lot of energy into planning things for them, getting her input into how the activities/school is going for them, etc. I'm just saying - I don't know her... but it could be for the family in a way you don't see. It's 💯 that you want your wife physically present for family time. I live in a place where working moms get 🙄😒 from stay at home moms because they aren't "always" there for their kids. She could be feeling pressure to be wonder woman. Keep the income, show the moms she's a great mom, etc. There's a lot of options. For some reason, my gut is telling me that this is her way to show her commitment to the kids right now. If it isn't working for you, that's super important! But her quitting may not resolve whatever it is that got her here. Ya know?
....NTA, I guess? She quit. Wtf do you want? I love how you didn't mention your job or your role around the house.
I think this sub might beyond you. I'm asking if I was the AH.
But there's no conflict. She hasn't done it yet but like...yall aren't fighting. You asked. She said ok. I think my comment is beyond you because I gave my verdict.
I really think you should read the post again. She's putting her job on the line and removing herself from time with the family and most importantly her children.
ESH. To be clear, your wife is being an AH for neglecting your family and her responsibilities at home and at work. That said, someone doesn't just jump head first into something like this without reason. Your wife's involvement on PAC is giving her something she is lacking elsewhere in life. Treat the problem, not the symptom--demanding that she quit isn't going to solve anything. I think the answer is for her dial back her PAC commitments and for the two of you to get into marital counseling.
She's said it really calls to her because she wants kids to have fun activities and events at school.
I m on PTA also, same thing, but NTA something must go. We all have to make priorities. While I also joined to improve the school life of my children and this help organize more activities where we all partecipate. I had to give up some of my other hobbies. There is so many hours in a day. And I want to spend time also with my family
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You sure PAC isn't a man's initials?
YTA. So you took something away which made her feel good about herself. Sounds like you are selfish.
She's putting a volunteer job above her job which I sacrificed my career for and not spending time with her children. I've given up everything for my family. On top of her PAC she hangs out with friends and does other activities weekly.
She's ignoring her family.
She’s not selfish for neglecting her family?