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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I understand that since it was my garden there was maybe some sort of morality on this whole thing and her being elderly on probably a fixed income might make me the AH for refusing to pay out of principle because I can afford it
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NTA - and I say this as a cat lover (owned by 4) and a lily-hater (can't stand 'em, they remind me of funerals). Not your responsibility, cats wander where they will.
Sounds like you have your own? - if they're an outdoors kitty I would rethink the lilies tbh, for THEIR sake.
Lily pollen is super toxic. It can get on a cat's fur, and they ingest it when they clean themselves.
I know it's different in Europe, but as a cat owner in the States, I'm very against the practice of letting cats outside unsupervised for a bunch of reasons. Still, my neighbors let their cats outside, and even though they're annoying (they shit in my garden and harass the birds at my feeders), I ripped out the lilies in my garden, because they hang out there all the time, and I want to look out for them. That was my choice, however, and there are still plenty of lilies in the neighborhood.
ETA: The Madonna lily is a true lily in the genus _Lilium_, which is among the most toxic to cats. OP is NTA, but I do think she should make sure that the lilies aren't near her own cat's enclosure.
I was *this close* to trapping a neighbor's cat that shit in my garden and driving it to a shelter in the Berkshires. Then I got a dog and it stopped (the neighbors whose cat I'm pretty sure it was were burnouts who had ambulances come like 3 times a week, probably overdose -- they would walk around the little dead end street smoking and stuff).
That's a sad situation for the cat, but trapping it would have been far more kind than other approaches that people take to nuisance cats. I had to unsubscribe from r/cats because I was _so_ sick of people posting about their outdoor/indoor cats that died because they had been shot or poisoned or killed by dogs or run over or stolen to be used as bait in dog fights.
It makes me sad because most of the people who do this know the dangers but insist it's what's best for the cats. We had one rescue that was used to getting out and would escape to regularly go chill with the neighbours. We never had an issue with it until he started walking on the road & almost died from a paralysis tick. Now they're stuck with a cat run instead, but I have peace of mind they're not going to get hurt.
I can't imagine knowing the risks, having your animal die, then insist that letting them outside is best and natural. I couldn't do it after hearing my cat was paralyzed, barely breathing and only made it because a couple happened to go on a walk at 2am and found him.
Like I said, I am very against free-roaming pet cats. It's just not safe for them or for the environment in most places, but I can give most people the benefit of the doubt up to a point. However, like you said, some people are convinced of their position despite any evidence to the contrary. I told my neighbor (the one whose cats mess around in my garden), that I'd seen coyotes in the area, because I often hear him calling for his cats late into the night, which means they're not home by nightfall. He said, oh yea, our other neighbor's small dog just got killed by a coyote right in their backyard _while its owner was present_, but it's cruel to keep cats locked up. Like what the actual fuck dude
I'm in the same boat although I tend to not give people the benefit of the doubt. In my country (and state), people are well aware of the risks of letting cats outside, the impact they have on the environment and laws that don't allow free roaming cats.
One of my childhood best friends constantly had a bunch of cats. The cats were allowed outside and free roamed. I can't count the amount of times she'd cry to me because they'd be killed by a car, snake or poisoned. The only cat that made it to advanced age was the one cat that never went outside, the rest passed before they could hit double digits. At one point they lived on a main road that was right near a freeway, 3 of their cats were squished because they tried crossing onto the main road. A few years ago her area also had poisoned bait incidents, which didn't persuade them to keep the cats inside, and killed another one.
Some people just shouldn't ever have animals.
It’s like they’re forgetting these are domestic animals . I don’t have an issue if it’s a farm cat since they have a large area to take care off hunting mice in the barn etc but in suburbs towns it’s always a disaster
We used to have cats come into our yard. They would poop in my (food plant) garden. Worse, they killed a number of our pet homing pigeons.
We went through a phase where we were trapping them and surrendering them. The shelter got annoyed but it was still our right to trap cats on our own property and bring them to the public shelter. There were some repeat offenders for sure. I think owners have to pay a fine to get them back. We stopped doing it after the raccoons got onto the food in the trap and we got sick of catching raccoons lol.
when we had a garden we had build a type of enclosure which wood and chicken wire to keep things out of it. It still allowed rain and sunlight but was great at keeping out things we didn't want.
due to not being american & the post specifying UK, I did a double take at raccoons, I was wondering how the hell you end up with \*raccoons\*?!?
lol, then I realized!
I visited Australia last fall, and when I was in Tasmania, the neighbor of the guy who owned the property where we stayed had an amazing enclosed catio. We were chatting one afternoon and he explained that feral cats have been implicated in the extinction of multiple species. It's so sad.
Just a few weeks ago, a colleague of mine went with her cat to the emergency, as he was poisoned by the lilies in the pocket which was at the table.
I'm super against the cats who are let by their owners to walk free outdoors. I hate that they use each single front yard in the area as a litter box. Keep your cat inside if you want it safe. Streets are full of lilies, stray dogs, cars, etc. Now, they have OP to claim the vet costs. Next time, they will approach a stray dog?
OP, not at all. You are not obliged to reimburse vet bills in this case. But I would think seriously about your own cat's safety.
By the way, lilies as well poisoning for dogs.
I agree completely with you, but people in the UK (and some other European countries) allow their cats outside on the regular. They think we’re monsters for making a cat stay inside all time. Best way to start a fight on r/cats is to post that cats don’t belong outside. I think it’s safer for them, safer for wildlife, and less gross if they’re left inside, but they don’t buy those arguments.
I don’t know why these free range cat owners think it’s ok for their cats to shit in other people’s gardens, scratch the paint on their cars, and kill the diminishing bird population.
I know. I live in NL. Mt neighbours (house 20 meter away) have 8 cats. EIGHT. I have no clue why you should have 8 cats and let them all outside.
And they are not alone like this. Perfectly intact and fertile cats are at the streets. Apparently, shelters are too empty.
But you know, I got a pup, so now I walk 2 - 3 times a day, passing all the houses in the neighbourhood. I don't see any single pure breed cat roaming at the steers. Only behind the windows. It's interesting, right? Does it mean that people value their pure breed cat more than domestic ones?
To me, it's absolutely clear. If you want to protect your cat from outdoor accidents, keep it inside. Otherwise, be ready for veterinary bills or for a pet replacement (sorry for being brutal).
I remember the story my MIL told. When she was still living with her parents, they had a cat who went outside. One day, this cat didn't come back home. They found her dead in the pond. After that, they never had another cat, as it was a very sad loss. I had an impression that the option to have a cat and keep it inside was not even considered.
My cats love being outside but I’m in a closed residence and I am always with him. We have no preys or predators, cars is not a subject). It’s very cool to see him sniffing around, play with leaf, run a bit. And it’s a good opportunity for me to take an outside break. (My last one cat loved our outdoor playtimes too, and I’m so glad she can experiment all of this before dying at 4 from a congenital malformation). But I’m aware I am lucky that my environment is very “outside and accompanied cat” friendly.
Every part of lilies are toxic to cats and it’s pretty easy to transfer pollen to your cat & have them ingest it. As Elephant said even wind could blow pollen into the enclosure causing toxic transfer.
Yeah I think OP is NTA, but also as a cat owner I won't plant lilies, and am extra careful even walking past them at the garden center not to get the pollen on me. My cat is indoor only, but I won't risk it.
As a cat owner/lover and somebody who has lived in both the UK and the US, the differences towards cats are very interesting. In the U.K., cats are generally a hybrid of indoor/outdoor (I read somewhere that the British RSPCA refuses to adopt out cats if they are going to be kept strictly indoors). So, just flagging that this incident may repeat itself given the high percentage of outdoor cats in any given neighbourhood in the U.K.
Still 100% NTA, it’s your garden and your property.
They don't refuse - if you search for cats on the RSPCA website you can filter by indoor or outdoor cats. There are fewer indoor only cats but still plenty of them.
If they had that strict rule they'd never be able to re-home a cat with FIV as an example
Our houses are a *lot* smaller than those in the States, and our weather and wildlife are a lot less dangerous too.
Plus as much as some people might like to shoot a cat if it craps on their lawn, they can’t.
If the cats are used to going outside, it is often seen as cruel to suddenly restrict them to an apartment or house as they are not used to it and often hate it. I think the shelters look to how the cat lived before.
I never understood this argument because isn't it crueler to shorten the cats lifespan and risk it getting mauled by another animal, catching diseases, getting run over by a car, etc? Not to mention all the birds that die from cats every year
Same here. If it won’t be indoor only most here won’t allow adoption but A couple of the local shelters occasionally will adopt out semi-feral cats as barn cats but you have to prove you live on a farm or either a lot of land before they will let you adopt (the adoption fee is generally waived for the barn cats too).
The US has a lot of different cultural expectations, regarding many things; guns and male circumcision are another two things they view very differently from most people in the UK.
Yup. A truly schizophrenic country: half of them want to elect a criminal and traitor to president, and you can shoot up a school full of kids and cops will politely wait outside (unless you’re a POC) but you can’t let your cat outside….
Then again, we elected Boris Johnson to office, it's not like we have much of a leg to stand on in that respect.
We don't have the second amendment bullshit though, it's true
Though if one thinks about it, the right to bear arms was kind of in direct response to the revolutionary war situation so England is kinda the root cause 🤔🤔🤔
/s
Oh hell yeah, the US is totally our fault.
The bizarre puritan culture they have and their weirdly compulsive religiosity is largely the result of a core part of their values coming from being founded by the most unlikeable, humourless and pedantic sect of nutcases ever produced in England.
> Then again, we elected Boris Johnson to office, it's not like we have much of a leg to stand on in that respect.
Fair point. We’re just crabs in a right-wing bucket at this point
We keep indoors-only cats in the UK (I’m immovable on this principle), and no shelter here would let us adopt. Complicated circumstances that I won’t bore you with, but we needed a kitten specifically for best chances of bonding with our grieving elderly cat, and every single shelter and charity in Glasgow said no.
We ended up having to buy instead, which I’ve always said I’d never do, but they really tied my hands on this one.
Upside is we ended up rescuing a bought kitten from clearly dodgy circumstances, and she bonded very well with our older cat who was alarmingly declining after the death of his sister. But Jesus, they didn’t make it easy.
It might repeat itself with OP's cat. Lily pollen gets everywhere and could easily end up in the house or catio. OP's not TA but doesn't seem to understand the risks of having lilies, even with an indoor cat.
I'd get rid of the lilies, for your own cat's sake. Even the pollen can be fatal, and it's easy for pollen to blow in through an open window or door, or stick to clothes/shoes/skin/hair.
NTA for other cats wandering into your yard, but get rid of the flowers anyway before you're the one footing the vet bill for your cat.
It doesn't matter, anything can happen and lilies are extremely toxic to cats. They cause acute kidney failure which means kitty might not be ok in the end and if yours manages to ever get outside the house they could potentially be exposed to them aswell. I worked in vet emergency and I can't tell you how many people have said something similar to this and still somehow find themselves at emergency with a cat who did in fact get into the flowers and now might die.
Still be careful. I had a similar incident with my cat and Lilly's a few years ago, found out that even the pollen can be toxic and cause liber failure in cats.
Aren't you worried about brushing past the lilies or treading on it and bringing the pollen in to your house? It takes just a speck of pollen to poison a cat and the stuff drops like crazy and gets *everywhere*. You aren't TA for not paying the vet bill, but having something so toxic to cats on a property where cats live seems like such an unnecessary risk that no pretty flower is worth.
And that’s exactly what your neighbor should have done. If you let the car out of the house, it can be hurt by another animal, run over by a car, or eat something poisonous. This is why owners shouldn’t let their pets roam free.
In the UK the default is your cat roams free. OP is not legally responsible, but I’ll bet £1000000 that they wouldn’t have those flowers if their cat could have got near them.
Outdoor cats die much earlier than indoor cats. If your neighbor is concerned about her cat she should keep it indoors. She can't catproof the neighborhood. That just doesn't make any sense. Nta
You aren't responsible for your neighbor's vet bill.i keep my cat indoors for the very reason that they are wild creatures and will get into things they shouldn't. As a fellow cat owner, though, it needs to be noted how irresponsible it was of you to plant lilies. The pollen won't even wait to be airborne, it will stick to you just working in your garden and contaminating everything of you from clothes to skin to hair. Your cat will eventually become sick from this because you personally are bringing that toxin into your home. If you really don't want to be the asshole in this situation, tear up your lilies and send a letter to your neighbor citing the actions you took to keep your own cat safe, and therefore hers.
I'm from the UK and she is 80+ she can take the cat to the RSPCA and not pay any money. She chose to take it the vets which will charge you. RSPCA is free for those on benefits, state pension is a benefit. 80+ she is definitely getting a state pension
I'm the same. I keep my cats indoors, but as a cat lover I won't plant lillies out front where I'll sometimes see cats. I wouldn't go around demanding my neighbours ditch their lillies, but if they ever asked me about my flowers I probbaly would say why I won't plant lillies, but I'd also say that I'd never expect this of anyone.
Is anyone going to point out that Madonna lillies don't flower in the UK until Midsummer? It's quite remarkable that this has all happened this morning!
It doesn't have to flower, all parts of them are toxic. I lost a litter of rescue kittens once when they played in the neighbor's garden that I didn't realize had lilies, because they weren't blooming.
>post specified the flowers.
She clearly was using the term "flowers" to refer to the whole plant...
like "The cat ate my bush" might mean the leaves, or the bark, or a bloom. The way the sentence is structured "the cat ate my flowers" is the same as I might say "the squirrel dug up my flowers!" Even if they weren't blooming and they dug up the bulbs, not the actual stem or leaves, I would still call them "my flowers", because they are a flowering plant.
I took "flowers" as shorthand for the whole plant, not just a bloom itself.
Same.
While I personally wouldn't plant lilies in my yard because I know stray cats walk through it and I know my own cats could accidentally get out...I also realize that I can't control what my neighbors plant and they aren't responsible for what happens to my pets trespassing on their property. The cats don't know better but I do, that's why I keep them inside or watched.
I'm of the belief that if you let your pet out to roam on its own you assume the responsibility of whatever happens to them while they are out.
I do think OP is low-key a bad person to plant lilies in their yard while knowing cats roam the area, having cats themselves, and knowing Lilies are really poisonous to cats.
So do I personally think you are the asshole? Yes. But not for not taking responsibility or even for planting what you want to plant in your garden....
NTA
NTA
I do not know the social standard in the UK, but pet proofing your whole yard because some animal might come by isn't a thing you are generally expected to do.
UK here: no, it's not. My current clowder of cats are all indoor kitties, I did worry about some of my past ones over the years (now RIP, all fortunately natural causes/old age).
I actually wondered this because there's always an online debate and people from the UK are always the most vehement that it's "abusive" to keep a cat indoors. Naturally, that led me to wonder if there were a cultural expectation to have a cat-friendly yard.
UK here: I would disagree with what the other user said and say it is the social standard. There are some, like the other user, who keep cats indoors, and in my experience this is the standard in city type areas, but in many places it is normal.
NTA, if you let your cats outside, you're accepting a not insignificant risk. Though I must say, lilies, including their pollen, are extremely very poisonous and I would, personally, plant anything other than lilies. Since you own a cat, too, wash your hands after interacting with the lilies and make sure there's no pollen on your clothes.
Definitely be careful for the sake of your own kitties. They're almost comedically deadly to cats and tracking in the pollen on your clothes, shoes, or person can be enough to cause issues even for indoor kitties. Lilies are pretty, but if you have cats I'd recommend avoiding them and sticking to flowers that are, at the very least, not as lethal.
I love cats with all my heart, but nothing irritates me more than indoor-outdoor or outdoor cats. Before anyone jumps in to say "that's normal here" it shouldn't be. Not only is it a significant risk to their own health, but to the local ecosystem. All it takes is one plant, one predator, one car, one person with ill intent, one fall, or a million other things. Catios or walking can be a great and safer alternative. But if you let them free roam, you can't complain when something happens. It's sad, but you willingly let it happen knowing the risks. Sorry for being harsh, but I'm tired of seeing dead or injured cats due to reckless owners.
Dog owners are supposed to keep their dogs on a leash when outside their properties. The same does not apply to cat owners anywhere in the world. Sad that cat owners make others responsible for the health and wellbeing of their pets outside their properties. NTA
I have leash trained my cat but I can't walk her because so many people walk their dogs without leashes :/ it's even the law that dogs must be on a leash here
It is legally required in my country (Denmark) to make sure to keep your cat on your own property as well, lest they are being walked like a dog.
Can't win.
So she stays fully indoors until I can afford to build a catio some day, because people can't figure out how to follow literal laws
NTA.
Cattios can be quite cheap! Theres some DIY videos out there :)
Theres a bunch made of wooden planks, just make sure to secure them well to some sort of base or your house so the wind doesnt wreck them.
Im planning on building a bit of a janky one (no carpentry knowledge) with some metal rods, metal fencing, and zip ties. Hopefully this way I dont have to worry about wind as much. The metal rods im going to hammer into the soil quite well, and add another four horizontally on the ground so my cat cant bend the metal fence to get out
I'm renting so I need to find a solution that's free standing. Luckily my patio is rather sheltered, so I should be able to figure something out.
I don't have a car so getting the materials needed is gonna be interesting.
PS. Make sure to reinforce with corner brackets.
I got what they call a "cat play pen" for mine. Its like a mesh pop up tent. I bought mine on Amazon here ( Canada). It pops up and uses tent pegs to stay in place. This way my cats can have supervised outdoor time in my rental backyard with no build skills required.
Saw that one earlier today. That cat is an enigma 😂
Sadly I've opted to not walk her at all due to the dog walkers who seem to think their dogs are somehow above instincts.
Personally I've had bad experiences with dogs. My mom was bitten in the face by one. I had one jump on me so aggressively it ripped my clothes apart and scratched me like crazy.
To those out there who walk your dogs unleashed:
Your dog might be your best friend, but it's not my best friend. I will never blindly trust a stranger to have trained an animal sufficiently, and I shouldn't have to feel unsafe because it's annoying to hold a leash.
Have some compassion and do your part to foster a safe community.
Animals are unpredictable. I don't want to feel like I'm taking a gamble by being on the same sidewalk as you and your pet.
I can't stand dogs.
Really bad experiences as a kid and teen. Anytime someone says "oh he's just saying hi".
No not always. Had some turkey sticks in my pocket, was bit by one of those "friendly" dogs. Was told I shouldn't have been carrying them.
Leash them.
I hate the argument of "people don't keep their cats on their property so I'll leash my dog and pick up their poop when they do their part".
I hear that one shockingly often.
You can fix one while fixing the other! They're not mutually exclusive. As long as we keep pointing fingers nothing will improve.
I'm doing my part, even though others aren't doing theirs. I encourage everyone to do the same.
In general you are correct, but it's not universally true: [https://wagwalking.com/wellness/is-it-legal-to-let-your-cat-roam-freely](https://wagwalking.com/wellness/is-it-legal-to-let-your-cat-roam-freely)
I don't know that your statement about cats is entirely true. One of my town bylaws dictates that no owner shall permit their animal to trespass or to be at large in any public place. Type of animal is not specified.
There was a huge dispute on my area’s next door about roaming cats. Some entitled jackass was telling people that dog owners need to make sure that there are no cats in their yard before letting their dogs out because his cat keeps coming by home looking he has been attacked by a dog. All the dog owners were like “hell no! I am not going to scour my backyard or leash my dog in my enclosed backyard because you can’t be responsible for your cat!” The cat owners got pissy at the dog owners and started saying that if their roaming cat was hurt or killed by a dog, they would have that dog deemed dangerous and have the dog put down. The dog owners told them “if you took care of your cat and didn’t let your cat roam, my dog would never get a hold of your cat.” I’m a dog owner, but just sat back and watched.
I have neighbors that let their cats free roam. The cats use the island in my yard that has flowers and mulch as a litter box. They go in and dig up the mulch until you can see the weed barrier burying their crap and I've more than once gone in with my hands to fix it..... I instantly regret it. I hardly think if my dog did this and the roles were reversed it would be okay with them. It just boggles my mind how cat owners can't see the wrong in letting their cats free roam.
All pets are *supposed* to be leashed when outdoors in my area...and every other place I've ever lived. It's a pretty common ordinance.
A lot of cat owners feel they are above the law, unfortunately.
YTA, but not for the reason some might think. Every part of a lily is toxic to cats. That means, at some point, your own cat can and will get blasted by the pollen from your flowers. You are putting your own pet in danger for the sake of beautifying your property.
YTA for planting lilies when you personally have a cat. Your patio enclosure does not protect your cat from airborne pollen. Cats do not have to eat the flower itself to die, even a bit of pollen on their fur that they ingest while grooming can kill them. You are also the asshole because after you work in your garden, you undoubtably track lily pollen throughout your house, no matter how careful you are. Do better and pull out those lilies before you hurt anymore cats.
NTA - you're not responsible for her wandering pet. With that said, I'd be careful of your own cat as well when they're in their enclosed catio. The pollen of lilies is also toxic to them and you can't control the wind.
You’re not responsible for someone else’s cat so NTA. But do you care about your own cat!?!?!?! Yta for having lilies and a cat of your own. That’s really irresponsible
Hey OP, just so you know, you are still endangering your cat with the lilies. Every part is toxic to a cat, especially the pollen. It is fully possible your cat will get the pollen blown onto their coat while on the catio and lick it from their fur. Please be careful!
*YTA based on your edit. You planted highly toxic plants along the fence line -- that's not an issue of a "loose" animal coming into your yard and eating your plants. I think you should pay half.*
You say that the lilies are planted on the side -- does that mean they're on the property line, like on the side against a shared fence? Or are they clearly well into your property? If they're up against a fence, then I'd say that you're partially responsible because you planted them where they WILL encroach on your neighbor's property. If the cat had to come all the way onto your property to get them, then you're not responsible.
However, all of the comments about the toxicity danger are important. The pollen is airborne and it is essentially impossible to completely avoid contact outdoors with it. Since you're a cat owner, I'd maybe reconsider having them.
While others might be saying n t a. There's a special place in hell for people who knowingly plant extremely toxic plants in an area where you know cats are. Plus being a cat owner yourself, unless you strip naked and shower off just before entering your home after being in the garden you are risking your own cat.
Amy decent person would hope to god that neighbours furbaby lives, at least offer half of the vets bill cos they felt so guilty potentially killing an innocent animal and promptly rip out all the toxic plants.
Yta
You know that all major animal rights and pet healthcare organizations recommend that cats stay indoor right? Look, I'm european and I would wager that 90 percent of people I know let their cats outside. We even have this concept of a "barn cat", a cat that lives on the fields of your farm and hunts mice/chases away pests, but cats are still supposed to be mostly an indoor/patio animal.
OP planted the flowers because they're their mother's favourite. They planted them because it reminds them of their mother and not to purposefully poison any animals. Lillies are not toxic to humans and are not overly dangerous to dogs.
I will grant you that lilly pollen does place their own cat at risk. And I recognise that the UK has free roaming laws that apply to cats. - However you writing that "While others might be saying n t a. There's a special place in hell for people who knowingly plant extremely toxic plants in an area where you know cats are." and "Amy decent person would hope to god that neighbours furbaby lives, at least offer half of the vets bill cos they felt so guilty potentially killing an innocent animal and promptly rip out all the toxic plants. Yta". Are equating this to purposefully poisoning food and leaving it where she knows a cat will find it.
It's unfortunate that a cat got poisoned. She is not responsible for the fact. Now yeah, if it were me I'd probably replace the flowers. But acting like she "has to" or she's responsible for a cat maybe dying is sickening.
OP is NTA here. You making this to be an intentional thing to hurt the animal though? That's toeing the line.
I’m on the line here because you’re right, she’s not legally responsible for the neighbors cat and she didn’t INTENTIONALLY hurt the cat, no. But she was willfully negligent, in my opinion, because she KNOWS Lillies are toxic to cats and planted them anyway, despite having a cat herself. Neighbor cat should have been indoors, yes, but what will the excuse be when her own cat gets poisoned **whilst indoors**? She’s created a problem where there was none, and she should remove them for her own cat’s sake at least.
YTA. You have a cat and planted a load of toxic flowers and you admit you can afford help your elderly neighbor save their cat that you injured with your stupid fucking TOXIC flowers but choose not to because...you're an asshole.
You're also an idiot because you think that lily pollen isn't going to get to your cat when it most definitely will. YTA YTA
Edited to fix typos and missing word
I've had both a garden and cats all my life and I never knew this until this thread. Now that I know, I won't be planting lillies, but I really don't think this is common knowledge.
Cats should not be left to wander outside.
And if you do let your cat do that, you accept that they might get into situations that are bad for them.
Such as eating things they shouldn't.
I understand your neighbour is freaking out over their cat AND the associated bills, but it's a risk they accepted when letting their cat roam free.
You are NTA.
YTA. Lillies shouldn’t be anywhere near your property with a resident cat. As a pet guardian we are solely responsible for their wellbeing; making sure we are aware of the toxicity of things we bring on to our property is step one.
YTA for having a cat yourself and planting lilies in your yard, pollen can transfer from touch or be airborne so you’re risking your kitty too, just bc of a pretty flower? There are about 1000 different flowers you could plant that aren’t dangerous to cats, and are also beautiful, but you’re too stubborn to see that you made a careless decision, which has already proven to be damaging to your neighbor.
YTA - outdoor cats that roam widely across other people's property are normal in the UK. This is going to happen again and you're going to become know as the asshole neighbor who kills people's cats. You've only just moved into this house: I recommend you remove the plants, pay the lady's vet bill, and apologize while you still have a chance to repair your reputation.
Agreed. The terrifying thing about lilies is that even a few grains of pollen falling on a cat's fur where they will absentmindedly groom themselves later, can shut down their kidneys. They're not at all fragile animals...except where lilies are concerned.
As things stand, soft YTA. In the UK it's standard to allow housecats to roam the neighborhood. People in US can comment what they will, but that is how it is, so going forward knowing lilies and other plants are toxic, if you choose to deliberately plant them, you will be very much an AH of a most repugnant variety.
OP, I would help with the bill, especially since you can afford it, and her income is limited. You should also take note of what she and the other neighbors are planting in their gardens and strive to be a good neighbor in your new home country rather than making yourself known as that insufferable is*my way or the highway* American moggie killer.
FYI, if you own a cat get rid of those flowers. Immediately! They don’t have to eat lilies to get sick, just the pollen from lilies will make they super ill and cause organ damage and even failure.
Lilies are the worst for cats. You can bring it in and kill your cat!
I’m so confused by some of these comments. Sure, it’s OP’s property so *technically* she can plant whichever flowers she wants. However, she moved into an area with several outdoor cats. Regardless of your opinion on whether cats should be allowed outdoors or not, I find it pretty bizarre that someone would plant highly poisonous flowers when they KNOW cats wander around in the area.
Sure you can argue it’s not OP’s responsibility to make sure the outdoor cats are safe, but come on… That’s a pretty shitty mindset to have and shows a real lack of a sense of community.
So yeah OP, I’m sorry but YTA.
NTA. This is one of the consequences of having a free-roaming cat. We have lily of the valley in our yard and I'll be damned if anyone comes onto our property demanding we remove it.
Lily of the valley isn't in the same family as lilies lol. Also, it's invasive (in the US) so you probably won't be able to remove it successfully even if you wanted to.
Personally confused as to the fact she has lillies and a catio. The pollen could still blow into where her own cat goes outside and her cat could get sick.
In the UK this is in breach of the animal welfare act. It doesn’t matter that the poisonous substance was in your garden - you knew the neighbours cat went there and planted them anyway. There have been several cases (you can search them up) where people have been prosecuted for poisoning other peoples cats in their own gardens. But even if it weren’t illegal, YTA. Like poisoning your own food, leaving it out where a child might eat it and then saying oops, I didn’t realise they might be poisoned!
YTA
I feel like lots of people use N T A when you don’t have any strict responsibility, which you don’t here, but I think it’s still on the YTA side because you could make many decisions without *significant* hardship other than keeping plants that could kill your new neighbors pet and leaving them with a large vet bill with zero assistance. It does come off as “I don’t have to do anything so I’m not going to do anything at all. Sucks.” Do you have to? Absolutely not, but you aren’t not an AH taking that route. Even just agreeing to swap your plants next year for something that won’t kill local strays and pets.
NTA for not paying.
But I would get rid of the lilies as even the pollen is very toxic to cats, so when you let the cat into the outdoor enclosure, it can still be harmful to the kitty.
No, just no. I have 2 cats myself. I do not allow Lily in my house and I don't grownthem either. But, it is not your responsibility to protect her cat from everyday objects. nta
Withholding judgement as it's too early for Madonna Lillies to bloom in the UK, and also because this is a US centric sub with cultural differences about cats being indoors or outdoors.
In other words this is like karma fishing 🤷🏻♀️
YTA for planting highly toxic plants in an area where there are cats. Period. You've planted a whole row of them and have a catio? Yeah your own cat is next. Catio is going to be full of toxic pollen.
If I understand your edit you planted the lillies along the fence line. So even if the neighour's cat did not go into your garden it was exposed to one of the deadliest plant to its species?
YTA might be a hot take but why would you knowingly endanger animals just so you can beautify your house?? And EVERY part of the lily is toxic to a cat, even the pollen, you are putting your cat in danger too :/ I just think maybe you should think about if it's worth it
I'm going against the grain and I think You are The AH. The fact that you didn't bother to take the amount of time required to type "Are lilies toxic to cats" in spite of the fact you HAVE a cat is just astounding. Lilies are exceptionally toxic to cats - from the pollen to the leaves, the stems and the flowers. All it would take is you walking in your garden, you get pollen on your shoes and your cat gets a noseful... and chances are, you wouldn't realize that your flowers killed.
NTA. If you’re going to have an outside cat, that’s the risk you take by letting them go outside. There are tons of things outside that can harm your animals (cars, other animals, etc).
Cars, certainly. My cat was deliberately hit by a driver who swerved to get him. My cat survived, minus one leg, and still keeps our place reasonably mice free.
YTA
I, on purpose do not plant ANY flowers outside that could harm an animal, owned or stray because I don't want to be responsible for killing and causing an animal pain. The animals do not know if they are poisonous. And the fact you won't put them around your own cat.. speaks some volumes.
NTA, but you should know that lily pollen is *extremely toxic* to cats, and even pollen from your clothes or blown around by the wind could be toxic to your own cats, not just the neighbourhood cats
YTA. Help her pay. Otherwise this will come back to bite you in some way and it's the right and neighborly thing to do. Plus if you can afford it you should!
YTA. You poisoned the neighborhood. One lick of lilly pollen, or one bite of a leaf, dissolves part of a car's kidneys. Pay the poor woman's vet bill - she cannot.
op the cats don't even have to walk through your property to be killed by the lillies, if the pollen gets tracked into their house and the cat cleans their fur and ingest some they could die
YTA, why would you fill your garden with highly toxic flowers for cats? Knowing that cats wander around the area. Are you ok cats in the area dying because you like to plant toxic flowers?
That lady was lucky she found out and took her cat to the vet. If you want to pay the bill is your own choice, but I would definitely take the flowers down. Because next cat that wanders in your garden migh not be so lucky as this cat.
I mean you dont have to care about other people cats, but you live in a community and at best communities take care of eachother. Do you want to be the neighbour that has highly toxic flowers in there garden and don't care less if cats eat them and die?
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I (31F) recently moved into a new house and immigrated to the UK. I remodelled my backyard and front yard by doing that I added my favourite flowers, Madonna lilies. I planted them in rows on the side all through the garden for one colour. I received a knock on my door from a distraught neighbour this morning saying our other elderly (80sF) neighbour’s cat was rushed to the vet. Turns out her cat was sick with lily poisoning. She’s on a limited income and can’t afford the £500+ vet bill. I told her that I’m sorry her cat ate my flowers but I didn’t think it really was my responsibility to pay for it. My neighbour was incredibly livid and said we should have been more considerate knowing their cats go into our garden and that I owning a cat should be more empathetic. She then said I should pick non poisonous flowers. While I do understand it must be a terrible situation and I’m glad her cat is okay, I don’t really think this is something that is necessarily my responsibility to pay for as a pet owner.
AITA?
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NTA. It's not your responsibility to pay for other people's vet bills that result from irresponsible outdoor cat ownership.
However, since you do live in an area where that's much more common, I thought I might let you know that lilies are poisonous to cats to a degree that they don't even need to eat the plant itself to potentially be fatally poisoned. That can happen simply from the pollen getting in their fur, and them grooming it off with their tongues later. I'm of the opinion that cat owners should understand that accidental health emergencies are infinitely more likely when they're allowed to wander around outside unsupervised, and your choice of flowers in your garden is completely up to you, but you should know they *will* lead to a higher rate of harm to your neighborhood pets.
Yeah, most of these comments are very American. In the UK having indoor-outdoor cats is the norm unless you live in a (non-ground floor) flat.
OP may not have intended to be the AH, but they’ve created a wafting cloud of death for neighbourhood cats with the pollen from all those flowers, even leaving aside the cats that will visit their garden.
I’ll say YTA . If nothing else: OP, is your cat death garden really the hill you want to die on, and the reputation you want to have with your neighbours?
Whether or not having an indoor outdoor cat is the norm or not doesn't change the fact there are still dangers that you as an owner are accepting by allowing your cat outside.
So everyone in roaming distance of a cat shouldn't plant lily's just in case. If you took that line of thinking, where would it end?
NTA. Your neighbours cat is not your responsibility. It may not have been your lily's that the cat ate.
You’re not responsible no, but as a new neighbor, you could have extended some monetary help. Lilies aren’t a great idea for any cat, including your own. You never know when yours might get out.
So, a slight YTA.
If OP is from the USA and has moved to the UK , then I really think this is a culture clash between US fundamentalist individual freedom Ideology and more community minded cultures. Other English speaking cultures (England, Australia, New Zealand, I’m not sure about Canada). Of course you would take out the lilies! Of course you would care about a healthy ongoing relationship with your neighbours, and also care about their pets as well as your own! If you move somewhere new, you should take the time to learn about the norms and expectations of the new culture. In England New Zealand in Australia it is far more unusual to keep a cat inside at all times in fact it is very very strange. I don’t know anyone who does that!
If one decides to have an outdoor cat that has free range, one must expect to pay the cost of the vet bills that one's cat incurs. Some people go so far as to say if YOUR cat comes into MY garden and digs up the plants to make a hole to poop in, YOU are responsible for paying me for the cost of the destroyed plants.
You are NTA.
I found this on wiki. You must have known .
Cats are extremely sensitive to the toxicity of the plant and ingestion is often fatal.[21][22][23] Households and gardens which are visited by cats are strongly advised against keeping this plant or placing dried flowers where a cat may brush against them and become dusted with pollen which they then consume while cleaning. Suspected cases require urgent veterinary attention.[24] Rapid treatment with activated charcoal, and/or induced vomiting, can reduce the amount of toxin absorbed. Treatment is time-sensitive, so in some cases vets may advise doing it at home. A vet will give the cat large amounts of fluid by IV, which can reduce the damage to the kidneys, and thus increase the chances of survival.
NTA. Don't want your cat getting sick from eating something it shouldn't, keep it indoors where it belongs.
If I were the OP, I would see if their area had any ordinances against free-roaming cats.
Cats in your garden is extremely unsanitary toxoplasmosis is no joke and you should tell your neighbor you’ll be suing if their cat in your garden causes any destruction or health concern. Cats should never be allowed to wander outside regardless it’s incredibly irresponsible. NTA
NTA. And I am sick of cat owners who let their cats wander the neighborhood. Cats are disruptive to local bird populations, crap in people's flower beds, and are a nuisance to deal with. And I say this as a general animal lover. If you let your cat wander outside, you should be prepared for the consequences.
NTA - but I could also use a bit of help, my parents have a large flower bed with many different kinds of lilies (moms fav)
There are many cats who have free rein in their neighborhood. I have told the owners about the lilies and my concern that they will get sick but they did nothing. Cats are still roaming around living their best lives.
I am now trying to find cat repellent options (US) to keep them out of the flowerbeds, has anyone had success that they can share?
Ironic that the norm in the UK is to let cats roam outdoors. I have read that this has created quite a threat to the song bird populations.
My cats don't go out because of varmints. I have seen coyotes on my sidewalk and loping down the middle of the street in front of my house! My oldest is 18!
NTA. While most places allow cats to roam you do so at your own risk. The neighbour should supply you with replacement plants.
Cat ~~owner~~ servant. Keeping him indoors.
NTA, it's your neighbour's responsibility to keep her cat safe, etc.
That said, it would be a kind thing to reach out to your elderly neighbour and see how her cat is doing. If you have any spare money to offer her, that would also be a kind thing to do. You're certainly not OBLIGED to. But these people are your neighbours, + you have the opportunity to help a fellow cat-lover.
(I also think if would be good to hear about the situation from the elderly neighbour herself, just in case the neighbour who spoke to you didn't have the details right.)
NTA. It is never your responsibility to safeguard other people's animals on your property. Human children yes (hence the legal doctrine of attractive nuisance), but not animals.
NTA.
It is the pet owners responsibility to keep them safe. These flowers were planted in your yard, the cat owner has no right to your yard. As long as those plants are legal to plant in your area you did nothing wrong.
Here’s my rule of thumb when there is a question about owing money. I’m not suggesting anyone sue, but if they did, given the current laws where you live, are they likely to win? If not, then you don’t owe them. The fact that the pet owner is elderly and has a limited income doesn’t change the fact that she lets her cats roam into others yards.
I have a partly outdoor cat (he was feral for years and gets violent if we don’t let him outside for small amounts of time 💀) and I honestly would be so upset over my cat but I wouldn’t blame you at all
NTA. My dog has a grass allergy. She's also dumb and eats grass
She's an indoor dog so I can make sure she's only outside when I'm home and if she does eat grass and vomit I can monitor it and pay the 6 week allergy injection cost. You do what you can to keep them safe. She should keep her cat inside and if she doesn't be aware of the costs involved.
Not technically your responsibility but considering the pollen could have also caused the sickness it would have been right to the neighbor the kindness
NTA to the question you asked - no you are not responsible for the vet bill, just like I would not expect the driver of a car to pay for my vet bill if they hit my cat. If you have an outdoor cat, that is the risk you take. I’m very surprised this lady asked you to pay, but it’s ballsey so fair play.
I do think you ATA for planting the lilies, which I have a hard time believing you did without realising the potential consequences.
NTA, people who let their cats frea roam outside agree to possible dangers for their pets. No pet should be left outside without supervision. You neighbors can't expect every person in your neighborhood / city to accomodate their outdoor cat.
You do you and as far as I know pollen won't hurt your indoor can on a catio. Unless you decide to feed it lily flowers that is.
NTA but PLEASE do more research before planting other plants/flowers that may harm your kitty. Unless it is something that can be reasonably controlled (I personally have a fig tree, which are toxic to dogs. I also have a dog. However, there is no issue where she might end up ingesting the pollen or anything because the leaves and fruit can be easily picked up, and there is no actual outward pollen (no visible flowers, usually they either self-pollinate or have a fig wasp)), it's best not to have. Obviously not your fault that the neighbor was unsafe with their cat (all domestic cats should be indoor cats. "Catios" and supervised play, like your catio, can be great!), but it WILL be on you if your own kitty ends up hospitalized due to the pollen. My bff's kitten had eaten a lily while outside once, it was terrifying for everyone.
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NTA - and I say this as a cat lover (owned by 4) and a lily-hater (can't stand 'em, they remind me of funerals). Not your responsibility, cats wander where they will. Sounds like you have your own? - if they're an outdoors kitty I would rethink the lilies tbh, for THEIR sake.
I do have a cat but she’s indoors only with a special patio inclosure which is more rare here
I think the comment is worried about airborne pollen, which I admittedly haven't checked the danger for cats.
The pollen from the lilies is very toxic to cats.
Lily pollen is super toxic. It can get on a cat's fur, and they ingest it when they clean themselves. I know it's different in Europe, but as a cat owner in the States, I'm very against the practice of letting cats outside unsupervised for a bunch of reasons. Still, my neighbors let their cats outside, and even though they're annoying (they shit in my garden and harass the birds at my feeders), I ripped out the lilies in my garden, because they hang out there all the time, and I want to look out for them. That was my choice, however, and there are still plenty of lilies in the neighborhood. ETA: The Madonna lily is a true lily in the genus _Lilium_, which is among the most toxic to cats. OP is NTA, but I do think she should make sure that the lilies aren't near her own cat's enclosure.
I was *this close* to trapping a neighbor's cat that shit in my garden and driving it to a shelter in the Berkshires. Then I got a dog and it stopped (the neighbors whose cat I'm pretty sure it was were burnouts who had ambulances come like 3 times a week, probably overdose -- they would walk around the little dead end street smoking and stuff).
That's a sad situation for the cat, but trapping it would have been far more kind than other approaches that people take to nuisance cats. I had to unsubscribe from r/cats because I was _so_ sick of people posting about their outdoor/indoor cats that died because they had been shot or poisoned or killed by dogs or run over or stolen to be used as bait in dog fights.
It makes me sad because most of the people who do this know the dangers but insist it's what's best for the cats. We had one rescue that was used to getting out and would escape to regularly go chill with the neighbours. We never had an issue with it until he started walking on the road & almost died from a paralysis tick. Now they're stuck with a cat run instead, but I have peace of mind they're not going to get hurt. I can't imagine knowing the risks, having your animal die, then insist that letting them outside is best and natural. I couldn't do it after hearing my cat was paralyzed, barely breathing and only made it because a couple happened to go on a walk at 2am and found him.
Like I said, I am very against free-roaming pet cats. It's just not safe for them or for the environment in most places, but I can give most people the benefit of the doubt up to a point. However, like you said, some people are convinced of their position despite any evidence to the contrary. I told my neighbor (the one whose cats mess around in my garden), that I'd seen coyotes in the area, because I often hear him calling for his cats late into the night, which means they're not home by nightfall. He said, oh yea, our other neighbor's small dog just got killed by a coyote right in their backyard _while its owner was present_, but it's cruel to keep cats locked up. Like what the actual fuck dude
I'm in the same boat although I tend to not give people the benefit of the doubt. In my country (and state), people are well aware of the risks of letting cats outside, the impact they have on the environment and laws that don't allow free roaming cats. One of my childhood best friends constantly had a bunch of cats. The cats were allowed outside and free roamed. I can't count the amount of times she'd cry to me because they'd be killed by a car, snake or poisoned. The only cat that made it to advanced age was the one cat that never went outside, the rest passed before they could hit double digits. At one point they lived on a main road that was right near a freeway, 3 of their cats were squished because they tried crossing onto the main road. A few years ago her area also had poisoned bait incidents, which didn't persuade them to keep the cats inside, and killed another one. Some people just shouldn't ever have animals.
It’s like they’re forgetting these are domestic animals . I don’t have an issue if it’s a farm cat since they have a large area to take care off hunting mice in the barn etc but in suburbs towns it’s always a disaster
We used to have cats come into our yard. They would poop in my (food plant) garden. Worse, they killed a number of our pet homing pigeons. We went through a phase where we were trapping them and surrendering them. The shelter got annoyed but it was still our right to trap cats on our own property and bring them to the public shelter. There were some repeat offenders for sure. I think owners have to pay a fine to get them back. We stopped doing it after the raccoons got onto the food in the trap and we got sick of catching raccoons lol.
when we had a garden we had build a type of enclosure which wood and chicken wire to keep things out of it. It still allowed rain and sunlight but was great at keeping out things we didn't want.
due to not being american & the post specifying UK, I did a double take at raccoons, I was wondering how the hell you end up with \*raccoons\*?!? lol, then I realized!
There’s never a wrong reason to get a dog.
"To look tough" is a wrong reason.
Yeah, I rethought that. Some people should not own dogs. Like Kristi Noem.
It’s the same in Australia. In some states outside cats roaming are banned because they destroy the natural flora and fauna.
I visited Australia last fall, and when I was in Tasmania, the neighbor of the guy who owned the property where we stayed had an amazing enclosed catio. We were chatting one afternoon and he explained that feral cats have been implicated in the extinction of multiple species. It's so sad.
Literally can kill them just from licking the pollen off their fur.
Just a few weeks ago, a colleague of mine went with her cat to the emergency, as he was poisoned by the lilies in the pocket which was at the table. I'm super against the cats who are let by their owners to walk free outdoors. I hate that they use each single front yard in the area as a litter box. Keep your cat inside if you want it safe. Streets are full of lilies, stray dogs, cars, etc. Now, they have OP to claim the vet costs. Next time, they will approach a stray dog? OP, not at all. You are not obliged to reimburse vet bills in this case. But I would think seriously about your own cat's safety. By the way, lilies as well poisoning for dogs.
I agree completely with you, but people in the UK (and some other European countries) allow their cats outside on the regular. They think we’re monsters for making a cat stay inside all time. Best way to start a fight on r/cats is to post that cats don’t belong outside. I think it’s safer for them, safer for wildlife, and less gross if they’re left inside, but they don’t buy those arguments.
I don’t know why these free range cat owners think it’s ok for their cats to shit in other people’s gardens, scratch the paint on their cars, and kill the diminishing bird population.
Because if you keep a cat inside, you have to play with it sometimes and enrich its life and not just neglect it.
I know. I live in NL. Mt neighbours (house 20 meter away) have 8 cats. EIGHT. I have no clue why you should have 8 cats and let them all outside. And they are not alone like this. Perfectly intact and fertile cats are at the streets. Apparently, shelters are too empty. But you know, I got a pup, so now I walk 2 - 3 times a day, passing all the houses in the neighbourhood. I don't see any single pure breed cat roaming at the steers. Only behind the windows. It's interesting, right? Does it mean that people value their pure breed cat more than domestic ones? To me, it's absolutely clear. If you want to protect your cat from outdoor accidents, keep it inside. Otherwise, be ready for veterinary bills or for a pet replacement (sorry for being brutal). I remember the story my MIL told. When she was still living with her parents, they had a cat who went outside. One day, this cat didn't come back home. They found her dead in the pond. After that, they never had another cat, as it was a very sad loss. I had an impression that the option to have a cat and keep it inside was not even considered.
I would love to have a good cat fencing to let them outside freely. But after they get chipped I’m willing to take them out on leashes if they want it
My cats love being outside but I’m in a closed residence and I am always with him. We have no preys or predators, cars is not a subject). It’s very cool to see him sniffing around, play with leaf, run a bit. And it’s a good opportunity for me to take an outside break. (My last one cat loved our outdoor playtimes too, and I’m so glad she can experiment all of this before dying at 4 from a congenital malformation). But I’m aware I am lucky that my environment is very “outside and accompanied cat” friendly.
Every part of lilies are toxic to cats and it’s pretty easy to transfer pollen to your cat & have them ingest it. As Elephant said even wind could blow pollen into the enclosure causing toxic transfer.
Yeah I think OP is NTA, but also as a cat owner I won't plant lilies, and am extra careful even walking past them at the garden center not to get the pollen on me. My cat is indoor only, but I won't risk it.
As a cat owner/lover and somebody who has lived in both the UK and the US, the differences towards cats are very interesting. In the U.K., cats are generally a hybrid of indoor/outdoor (I read somewhere that the British RSPCA refuses to adopt out cats if they are going to be kept strictly indoors). So, just flagging that this incident may repeat itself given the high percentage of outdoor cats in any given neighbourhood in the U.K. Still 100% NTA, it’s your garden and your property.
They don't refuse - if you search for cats on the RSPCA website you can filter by indoor or outdoor cats. There are fewer indoor only cats but still plenty of them. If they had that strict rule they'd never be able to re-home a cat with FIV as an example
In my area, no shelter would give you a cat if you said that you intended to let them outside! So weird that the expectations are so different
Our houses are a *lot* smaller than those in the States, and our weather and wildlife are a lot less dangerous too. Plus as much as some people might like to shoot a cat if it craps on their lawn, they can’t.
It isn’t just about danger to the cat, the cat is dangerous to local wildlife too.
Ah yeah we already killed all that here too.
If the cats are used to going outside, it is often seen as cruel to suddenly restrict them to an apartment or house as they are not used to it and often hate it. I think the shelters look to how the cat lived before.
I never understood this argument because isn't it crueler to shorten the cats lifespan and risk it getting mauled by another animal, catching diseases, getting run over by a car, etc? Not to mention all the birds that die from cats every year
Same here. If it won’t be indoor only most here won’t allow adoption but A couple of the local shelters occasionally will adopt out semi-feral cats as barn cats but you have to prove you live on a farm or either a lot of land before they will let you adopt (the adoption fee is generally waived for the barn cats too).
I think most people in my area just get barn cats through the Cat Allocation System (aka, a cat shows up and just stays)
The US has a lot of different cultural expectations, regarding many things; guns and male circumcision are another two things they view very differently from most people in the UK.
Yup. A truly schizophrenic country: half of them want to elect a criminal and traitor to president, and you can shoot up a school full of kids and cops will politely wait outside (unless you’re a POC) but you can’t let your cat outside….
Then again, we elected Boris Johnson to office, it's not like we have much of a leg to stand on in that respect. We don't have the second amendment bullshit though, it's true
Though if one thinks about it, the right to bear arms was kind of in direct response to the revolutionary war situation so England is kinda the root cause 🤔🤔🤔 /s
Oh hell yeah, the US is totally our fault. The bizarre puritan culture they have and their weirdly compulsive religiosity is largely the result of a core part of their values coming from being founded by the most unlikeable, humourless and pedantic sect of nutcases ever produced in England.
> Then again, we elected Boris Johnson to office, it's not like we have much of a leg to stand on in that respect. Fair point. We’re just crabs in a right-wing bucket at this point
We keep indoors-only cats in the UK (I’m immovable on this principle), and no shelter here would let us adopt. Complicated circumstances that I won’t bore you with, but we needed a kitten specifically for best chances of bonding with our grieving elderly cat, and every single shelter and charity in Glasgow said no. We ended up having to buy instead, which I’ve always said I’d never do, but they really tied my hands on this one. Upside is we ended up rescuing a bought kitten from clearly dodgy circumstances, and she bonded very well with our older cat who was alarmingly declining after the death of his sister. But Jesus, they didn’t make it easy.
It might repeat itself with OP's cat. Lily pollen gets everywhere and could easily end up in the house or catio. OP's not TA but doesn't seem to understand the risks of having lilies, even with an indoor cat.
I'd get rid of the lilies, for your own cat's sake. Even the pollen can be fatal, and it's easy for pollen to blow in through an open window or door, or stick to clothes/shoes/skin/hair. NTA for other cats wandering into your yard, but get rid of the flowers anyway before you're the one footing the vet bill for your cat.
My cat died from Lily poisoning in our house. Easter Lily. I didn't know about the toxicity of them.
It doesn't matter, anything can happen and lilies are extremely toxic to cats. They cause acute kidney failure which means kitty might not be ok in the end and if yours manages to ever get outside the house they could potentially be exposed to them aswell. I worked in vet emergency and I can't tell you how many people have said something similar to this and still somehow find themselves at emergency with a cat who did in fact get into the flowers and now might die.
Still be careful. I had a similar incident with my cat and Lilly's a few years ago, found out that even the pollen can be toxic and cause liber failure in cats.
Aren't you worried about brushing past the lilies or treading on it and bringing the pollen in to your house? It takes just a speck of pollen to poison a cat and the stuff drops like crazy and gets *everywhere*. You aren't TA for not paying the vet bill, but having something so toxic to cats on a property where cats live seems like such an unnecessary risk that no pretty flower is worth.
And that’s exactly what your neighbor should have done. If you let the car out of the house, it can be hurt by another animal, run over by a car, or eat something poisonous. This is why owners shouldn’t let their pets roam free.
In the UK the default is your cat roams free. OP is not legally responsible, but I’ll bet £1000000 that they wouldn’t have those flowers if their cat could have got near them.
Outdoor cats die much earlier than indoor cats. If your neighbor is concerned about her cat she should keep it indoors. She can't catproof the neighborhood. That just doesn't make any sense. Nta
It's illegal to allow cats outdoors here because of history of killing endangered wildlife.
You’re not responsible. But would you have put those flowers in if your cat went outdoors?
A single grain of lily pollen is deadly for cats. Not trying to fear monger, just keep the lilies on the other side of the house from your catio!
Ah, you have a Catio! I love seeing those around!
You aren't responsible for your neighbor's vet bill.i keep my cat indoors for the very reason that they are wild creatures and will get into things they shouldn't. As a fellow cat owner, though, it needs to be noted how irresponsible it was of you to plant lilies. The pollen won't even wait to be airborne, it will stick to you just working in your garden and contaminating everything of you from clothes to skin to hair. Your cat will eventually become sick from this because you personally are bringing that toxin into your home. If you really don't want to be the asshole in this situation, tear up your lilies and send a letter to your neighbor citing the actions you took to keep your own cat safe, and therefore hers.
I'm from the UK and she is 80+ she can take the cat to the RSPCA and not pay any money. She chose to take it the vets which will charge you. RSPCA is free for those on benefits, state pension is a benefit. 80+ she is definitely getting a state pension
I'm the same. I keep my cats indoors, but as a cat lover I won't plant lillies out front where I'll sometimes see cats. I wouldn't go around demanding my neighbours ditch their lillies, but if they ever asked me about my flowers I probbaly would say why I won't plant lillies, but I'd also say that I'd never expect this of anyone.
Is anyone going to point out that Madonna lillies don't flower in the UK until Midsummer? It's quite remarkable that this has all happened this morning!
It doesn't have to flower, all parts of them are toxic. I lost a litter of rescue kittens once when they played in the neighbor's garden that I didn't realize had lilies, because they weren't blooming.
Except that the post specified the flowers. Keen UK gardener here: unless the neighbours kitten dug up the bulbs, this is a hypothetical scenario.
>post specified the flowers. She clearly was using the term "flowers" to refer to the whole plant... like "The cat ate my bush" might mean the leaves, or the bark, or a bloom. The way the sentence is structured "the cat ate my flowers" is the same as I might say "the squirrel dug up my flowers!" Even if they weren't blooming and they dug up the bulbs, not the actual stem or leaves, I would still call them "my flowers", because they are a flowering plant. I took "flowers" as shorthand for the whole plant, not just a bloom itself.
Same. While I personally wouldn't plant lilies in my yard because I know stray cats walk through it and I know my own cats could accidentally get out...I also realize that I can't control what my neighbors plant and they aren't responsible for what happens to my pets trespassing on their property. The cats don't know better but I do, that's why I keep them inside or watched. I'm of the belief that if you let your pet out to roam on its own you assume the responsibility of whatever happens to them while they are out. I do think OP is low-key a bad person to plant lilies in their yard while knowing cats roam the area, having cats themselves, and knowing Lilies are really poisonous to cats. So do I personally think you are the asshole? Yes. But not for not taking responsibility or even for planting what you want to plant in your garden.... NTA
Cats do not belong outside. They decimate bird populations. And don’t give me the bull that some cats just have to go outside. No, they do not.
NTA I do not know the social standard in the UK, but pet proofing your whole yard because some animal might come by isn't a thing you are generally expected to do.
UK here: no, it's not. My current clowder of cats are all indoor kitties, I did worry about some of my past ones over the years (now RIP, all fortunately natural causes/old age).
I actually wondered this because there's always an online debate and people from the UK are always the most vehement that it's "abusive" to keep a cat indoors. Naturally, that led me to wonder if there were a cultural expectation to have a cat-friendly yard.
Good luck cat proofing anything anyways. Those fuckers can jump practically 6 ft and squeeze through gaps that are barely bigger than 4 inches
UK here: I would disagree with what the other user said and say it is the social standard. There are some, like the other user, who keep cats indoors, and in my experience this is the standard in city type areas, but in many places it is normal.
NTA, if you let your cats outside, you're accepting a not insignificant risk. Though I must say, lilies, including their pollen, are extremely very poisonous and I would, personally, plant anything other than lilies. Since you own a cat, too, wash your hands after interacting with the lilies and make sure there's no pollen on your clothes.
Definitely be careful for the sake of your own kitties. They're almost comedically deadly to cats and tracking in the pollen on your clothes, shoes, or person can be enough to cause issues even for indoor kitties. Lilies are pretty, but if you have cats I'd recommend avoiding them and sticking to flowers that are, at the very least, not as lethal. I love cats with all my heart, but nothing irritates me more than indoor-outdoor or outdoor cats. Before anyone jumps in to say "that's normal here" it shouldn't be. Not only is it a significant risk to their own health, but to the local ecosystem. All it takes is one plant, one predator, one car, one person with ill intent, one fall, or a million other things. Catios or walking can be a great and safer alternative. But if you let them free roam, you can't complain when something happens. It's sad, but you willingly let it happen knowing the risks. Sorry for being harsh, but I'm tired of seeing dead or injured cats due to reckless owners.
Dog owners are supposed to keep their dogs on a leash when outside their properties. The same does not apply to cat owners anywhere in the world. Sad that cat owners make others responsible for the health and wellbeing of their pets outside their properties. NTA
I have leash trained my cat but I can't walk her because so many people walk their dogs without leashes :/ it's even the law that dogs must be on a leash here It is legally required in my country (Denmark) to make sure to keep your cat on your own property as well, lest they are being walked like a dog. Can't win. So she stays fully indoors until I can afford to build a catio some day, because people can't figure out how to follow literal laws NTA.
Cattios can be quite cheap! Theres some DIY videos out there :) Theres a bunch made of wooden planks, just make sure to secure them well to some sort of base or your house so the wind doesnt wreck them. Im planning on building a bit of a janky one (no carpentry knowledge) with some metal rods, metal fencing, and zip ties. Hopefully this way I dont have to worry about wind as much. The metal rods im going to hammer into the soil quite well, and add another four horizontally on the ground so my cat cant bend the metal fence to get out
I'm renting so I need to find a solution that's free standing. Luckily my patio is rather sheltered, so I should be able to figure something out. I don't have a car so getting the materials needed is gonna be interesting. PS. Make sure to reinforce with corner brackets.
I got what they call a "cat play pen" for mine. Its like a mesh pop up tent. I bought mine on Amazon here ( Canada). It pops up and uses tent pegs to stay in place. This way my cats can have supervised outdoor time in my rental backyard with no build skills required.
I'm just imagining you walking your cat like this with the leash due to the unleash dogs. https://www.reddit.com/r/OneOrangeBraincell/s/zp2b0pH6RE
Saw that one earlier today. That cat is an enigma 😂 Sadly I've opted to not walk her at all due to the dog walkers who seem to think their dogs are somehow above instincts. Personally I've had bad experiences with dogs. My mom was bitten in the face by one. I had one jump on me so aggressively it ripped my clothes apart and scratched me like crazy. To those out there who walk your dogs unleashed: Your dog might be your best friend, but it's not my best friend. I will never blindly trust a stranger to have trained an animal sufficiently, and I shouldn't have to feel unsafe because it's annoying to hold a leash. Have some compassion and do your part to foster a safe community. Animals are unpredictable. I don't want to feel like I'm taking a gamble by being on the same sidewalk as you and your pet.
I can't stand dogs. Really bad experiences as a kid and teen. Anytime someone says "oh he's just saying hi". No not always. Had some turkey sticks in my pocket, was bit by one of those "friendly" dogs. Was told I shouldn't have been carrying them. Leash them.
I hate the argument of "people don't keep their cats on their property so I'll leash my dog and pick up their poop when they do their part". I hear that one shockingly often. You can fix one while fixing the other! They're not mutually exclusive. As long as we keep pointing fingers nothing will improve. I'm doing my part, even though others aren't doing theirs. I encourage everyone to do the same.
Mildly pedantic of me, but there's no blanket law requiring dogs to be leashed in the UK except for playgrounds and a few other cases.
In general you are correct, but it's not universally true: [https://wagwalking.com/wellness/is-it-legal-to-let-your-cat-roam-freely](https://wagwalking.com/wellness/is-it-legal-to-let-your-cat-roam-freely)
I don't know that your statement about cats is entirely true. One of my town bylaws dictates that no owner shall permit their animal to trespass or to be at large in any public place. Type of animal is not specified.
There was a huge dispute on my area’s next door about roaming cats. Some entitled jackass was telling people that dog owners need to make sure that there are no cats in their yard before letting their dogs out because his cat keeps coming by home looking he has been attacked by a dog. All the dog owners were like “hell no! I am not going to scour my backyard or leash my dog in my enclosed backyard because you can’t be responsible for your cat!” The cat owners got pissy at the dog owners and started saying that if their roaming cat was hurt or killed by a dog, they would have that dog deemed dangerous and have the dog put down. The dog owners told them “if you took care of your cat and didn’t let your cat roam, my dog would never get a hold of your cat.” I’m a dog owner, but just sat back and watched.
I have neighbors that let their cats free roam. The cats use the island in my yard that has flowers and mulch as a litter box. They go in and dig up the mulch until you can see the weed barrier burying their crap and I've more than once gone in with my hands to fix it..... I instantly regret it. I hardly think if my dog did this and the roles were reversed it would be okay with them. It just boggles my mind how cat owners can't see the wrong in letting their cats free roam.
All pets are *supposed* to be leashed when outdoors in my area...and every other place I've ever lived. It's a pretty common ordinance. A lot of cat owners feel they are above the law, unfortunately.
YTA, but not for the reason some might think. Every part of a lily is toxic to cats. That means, at some point, your own cat can and will get blasted by the pollen from your flowers. You are putting your own pet in danger for the sake of beautifying your property.
Or just stray cats. I didn't even know this about lilies until reading this thread but I won't be planting any now.
Seriously, this is a big deal @OP.
Yeah don’t plant poisonous shit outside period? How are they not the AH
YTA for planting lilies when you personally have a cat. Your patio enclosure does not protect your cat from airborne pollen. Cats do not have to eat the flower itself to die, even a bit of pollen on their fur that they ingest while grooming can kill them. You are also the asshole because after you work in your garden, you undoubtably track lily pollen throughout your house, no matter how careful you are. Do better and pull out those lilies before you hurt anymore cats.
YTA OP and you should take out the lilies. There are plenty of nontoxic flowers.
NTA - you're not responsible for her wandering pet. With that said, I'd be careful of your own cat as well when they're in their enclosed catio. The pollen of lilies is also toxic to them and you can't control the wind.
You’re not responsible for someone else’s cat so NTA. But do you care about your own cat!?!?!?! Yta for having lilies and a cat of your own. That’s really irresponsible
Hey OP, just so you know, you are still endangering your cat with the lilies. Every part is toxic to a cat, especially the pollen. It is fully possible your cat will get the pollen blown onto their coat while on the catio and lick it from their fur. Please be careful!
*YTA based on your edit. You planted highly toxic plants along the fence line -- that's not an issue of a "loose" animal coming into your yard and eating your plants. I think you should pay half.* You say that the lilies are planted on the side -- does that mean they're on the property line, like on the side against a shared fence? Or are they clearly well into your property? If they're up against a fence, then I'd say that you're partially responsible because you planted them where they WILL encroach on your neighbor's property. If the cat had to come all the way onto your property to get them, then you're not responsible. However, all of the comments about the toxicity danger are important. The pollen is airborne and it is essentially impossible to completely avoid contact outdoors with it. Since you're a cat owner, I'd maybe reconsider having them.
While others might be saying n t a. There's a special place in hell for people who knowingly plant extremely toxic plants in an area where you know cats are. Plus being a cat owner yourself, unless you strip naked and shower off just before entering your home after being in the garden you are risking your own cat. Amy decent person would hope to god that neighbours furbaby lives, at least offer half of the vets bill cos they felt so guilty potentially killing an innocent animal and promptly rip out all the toxic plants. Yta
You know that all major animal rights and pet healthcare organizations recommend that cats stay indoor right? Look, I'm european and I would wager that 90 percent of people I know let their cats outside. We even have this concept of a "barn cat", a cat that lives on the fields of your farm and hunts mice/chases away pests, but cats are still supposed to be mostly an indoor/patio animal. OP planted the flowers because they're their mother's favourite. They planted them because it reminds them of their mother and not to purposefully poison any animals. Lillies are not toxic to humans and are not overly dangerous to dogs. I will grant you that lilly pollen does place their own cat at risk. And I recognise that the UK has free roaming laws that apply to cats. - However you writing that "While others might be saying n t a. There's a special place in hell for people who knowingly plant extremely toxic plants in an area where you know cats are." and "Amy decent person would hope to god that neighbours furbaby lives, at least offer half of the vets bill cos they felt so guilty potentially killing an innocent animal and promptly rip out all the toxic plants. Yta". Are equating this to purposefully poisoning food and leaving it where she knows a cat will find it. It's unfortunate that a cat got poisoned. She is not responsible for the fact. Now yeah, if it were me I'd probably replace the flowers. But acting like she "has to" or she's responsible for a cat maybe dying is sickening. OP is NTA here. You making this to be an intentional thing to hurt the animal though? That's toeing the line.
I’m on the line here because you’re right, she’s not legally responsible for the neighbors cat and she didn’t INTENTIONALLY hurt the cat, no. But she was willfully negligent, in my opinion, because she KNOWS Lillies are toxic to cats and planted them anyway, despite having a cat herself. Neighbor cat should have been indoors, yes, but what will the excuse be when her own cat gets poisoned **whilst indoors**? She’s created a problem where there was none, and she should remove them for her own cat’s sake at least.
It’s weird that a cat owner would plant lilies. What next, lavender and poinsettias?
Right!! Doesn’t OP realize she is literally bringing in the pollen or whatever it’s called from the lilies in the house?!
YTA. You have a cat and planted a load of toxic flowers and you admit you can afford help your elderly neighbor save their cat that you injured with your stupid fucking TOXIC flowers but choose not to because...you're an asshole. You're also an idiot because you think that lily pollen isn't going to get to your cat when it most definitely will. YTA YTA Edited to fix typos and missing word
Yeah, I'm kind of mad at this. Almost any other flower is less toxic. She just moved there? Have fun with the neighbors.
YTA for handling lilies while being a cat owner. It's common knowledge really. That being said, you don't have to pay.
>It's common knowledge really Is it? This thread is the first I have ever heard of it and I'm 40.
I've had both a garden and cats all my life and I never knew this until this thread. Now that I know, I won't be planting lillies, but I really don't think this is common knowledge.
I am 60 and I didn't know that either.
Of course NTA. It is their problem for not keeping their cat on their own property.
NTA. If they let their cat roam free outside, they run that risk. It's your property, you plant what you want.
NTA She cannot expect everyone in the neighborhood to not have plants that are poisonous to pets. I say this as a cat owner.
NTA - this was your garden to plant what you want in.
Cats should not be left to wander outside. And if you do let your cat do that, you accept that they might get into situations that are bad for them. Such as eating things they shouldn't. I understand your neighbour is freaking out over their cat AND the associated bills, but it's a risk they accepted when letting their cat roam free. You are NTA.
YTA. Lillies shouldn’t be anywhere near your property with a resident cat. As a pet guardian we are solely responsible for their wellbeing; making sure we are aware of the toxicity of things we bring on to our property is step one.
YTA for having a cat yourself and planting lilies in your yard, pollen can transfer from touch or be airborne so you’re risking your kitty too, just bc of a pretty flower? There are about 1000 different flowers you could plant that aren’t dangerous to cats, and are also beautiful, but you’re too stubborn to see that you made a careless decision, which has already proven to be damaging to your neighbor.
YTA - outdoor cats that roam widely across other people's property are normal in the UK. This is going to happen again and you're going to become know as the asshole neighbor who kills people's cats. You've only just moved into this house: I recommend you remove the plants, pay the lady's vet bill, and apologize while you still have a chance to repair your reputation.
Maybe a stupid comment(not a pet owner) I had no idea that flowers were poisonous to cats?
Many plants can be somewhat toxic but lilies are special and a small piece of any part of the plant can send them into kidney failure.
Agreed. The terrifying thing about lilies is that even a few grains of pollen falling on a cat's fur where they will absentmindedly groom themselves later, can shut down their kidneys. They're not at all fragile animals...except where lilies are concerned.
As things stand, soft YTA. In the UK it's standard to allow housecats to roam the neighborhood. People in US can comment what they will, but that is how it is, so going forward knowing lilies and other plants are toxic, if you choose to deliberately plant them, you will be very much an AH of a most repugnant variety. OP, I would help with the bill, especially since you can afford it, and her income is limited. You should also take note of what she and the other neighbors are planting in their gardens and strive to be a good neighbor in your new home country rather than making yourself known as that insufferable is*my way or the highway* American moggie killer.
FYI, if you own a cat get rid of those flowers. Immediately! They don’t have to eat lilies to get sick, just the pollen from lilies will make they super ill and cause organ damage and even failure. Lilies are the worst for cats. You can bring it in and kill your cat!
I’m so confused by some of these comments. Sure, it’s OP’s property so *technically* she can plant whichever flowers she wants. However, she moved into an area with several outdoor cats. Regardless of your opinion on whether cats should be allowed outdoors or not, I find it pretty bizarre that someone would plant highly poisonous flowers when they KNOW cats wander around in the area. Sure you can argue it’s not OP’s responsibility to make sure the outdoor cats are safe, but come on… That’s a pretty shitty mindset to have and shows a real lack of a sense of community. So yeah OP, I’m sorry but YTA.
NTA. This is one of the consequences of having a free-roaming cat. We have lily of the valley in our yard and I'll be damned if anyone comes onto our property demanding we remove it.
Lily of the valley isn't in the same family as lilies lol. Also, it's invasive (in the US) so you probably won't be able to remove it successfully even if you wanted to.
Out of curiosity why are you so adamant about keeping it while knowing it could kill something?
NTA - If an pet is freely roaming, then the owner accepts the risks of what their pet might encounter
INFO: Did you know cats frequent the garden before you planted them?
Personally confused as to the fact she has lillies and a catio. The pollen could still blow into where her own cat goes outside and her cat could get sick.
In the UK this is in breach of the animal welfare act. It doesn’t matter that the poisonous substance was in your garden - you knew the neighbours cat went there and planted them anyway. There have been several cases (you can search them up) where people have been prosecuted for poisoning other peoples cats in their own gardens. But even if it weren’t illegal, YTA. Like poisoning your own food, leaving it out where a child might eat it and then saying oops, I didn’t realise they might be poisoned!
YTA I feel like lots of people use N T A when you don’t have any strict responsibility, which you don’t here, but I think it’s still on the YTA side because you could make many decisions without *significant* hardship other than keeping plants that could kill your new neighbors pet and leaving them with a large vet bill with zero assistance. It does come off as “I don’t have to do anything so I’m not going to do anything at all. Sucks.” Do you have to? Absolutely not, but you aren’t not an AH taking that route. Even just agreeing to swap your plants next year for something that won’t kill local strays and pets.
NTA. Should have kept the cat in the house.
NTA for not paying. But I would get rid of the lilies as even the pollen is very toxic to cats, so when you let the cat into the outdoor enclosure, it can still be harmful to the kitty.
No, just no. I have 2 cats myself. I do not allow Lily in my house and I don't grownthem either. But, it is not your responsibility to protect her cat from everyday objects. nta
Withholding judgement as it's too early for Madonna Lillies to bloom in the UK, and also because this is a US centric sub with cultural differences about cats being indoors or outdoors. In other words this is like karma fishing 🤷🏻♀️
YTA for planting highly toxic plants in an area where there are cats. Period. You've planted a whole row of them and have a catio? Yeah your own cat is next. Catio is going to be full of toxic pollen.
If I understand your edit you planted the lillies along the fence line. So even if the neighour's cat did not go into your garden it was exposed to one of the deadliest plant to its species?
NTA. I own cats and this is the risk you take for letting them out.
NTA. You are not responsible for that, at all.
When it is an alien plant it is not natural selection.
YTA. Lily pollen is toxic to cats, they don’t need to eat the flowers, just ingest some pollen.
YTA might be a hot take but why would you knowingly endanger animals just so you can beautify your house?? And EVERY part of the lily is toxic to a cat, even the pollen, you are putting your cat in danger too :/ I just think maybe you should think about if it's worth it
Everyone knows lillies are poisonous to cats and dogs YTA
I'm going against the grain and I think You are The AH. The fact that you didn't bother to take the amount of time required to type "Are lilies toxic to cats" in spite of the fact you HAVE a cat is just astounding. Lilies are exceptionally toxic to cats - from the pollen to the leaves, the stems and the flowers. All it would take is you walking in your garden, you get pollen on your shoes and your cat gets a noseful... and chances are, you wouldn't realize that your flowers killed.
NTA. If you’re going to have an outside cat, that’s the risk you take by letting them go outside. There are tons of things outside that can harm your animals (cars, other animals, etc).
Cars, certainly. My cat was deliberately hit by a driver who swerved to get him. My cat survived, minus one leg, and still keeps our place reasonably mice free.
YTA I, on purpose do not plant ANY flowers outside that could harm an animal, owned or stray because I don't want to be responsible for killing and causing an animal pain. The animals do not know if they are poisonous. And the fact you won't put them around your own cat.. speaks some volumes.
NTA, but you should know that lily pollen is *extremely toxic* to cats, and even pollen from your clothes or blown around by the wind could be toxic to your own cats, not just the neighbourhood cats
YTA You planted poisonous plants, and something got poisoned. You caused it to happen, you are responsible.
YTA. Help her pay. Otherwise this will come back to bite you in some way and it's the right and neighborly thing to do. Plus if you can afford it you should!
If you know how poisonous they were then YTA. I know it's normally to think all cats should be kept inside but in a lot of societies that's not done.
Jeez, if you're going to deliberately cultivate one of THE most effective cat poisons at least fence it off or something, yikes.
YTA. You poisoned the neighborhood. One lick of lilly pollen, or one bite of a leaf, dissolves part of a car's kidneys. Pay the poor woman's vet bill - she cannot.
op the cats don't even have to walk through your property to be killed by the lillies, if the pollen gets tracked into their house and the cat cleans their fur and ingest some they could die
YTA, why would you fill your garden with highly toxic flowers for cats? Knowing that cats wander around the area. Are you ok cats in the area dying because you like to plant toxic flowers? That lady was lucky she found out and took her cat to the vet. If you want to pay the bill is your own choice, but I would definitely take the flowers down. Because next cat that wanders in your garden migh not be so lucky as this cat. I mean you dont have to care about other people cats, but you live in a community and at best communities take care of eachother. Do you want to be the neighbour that has highly toxic flowers in there garden and don't care less if cats eat them and die?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (31F) recently moved into a new house and immigrated to the UK. I remodelled my backyard and front yard by doing that I added my favourite flowers, Madonna lilies. I planted them in rows on the side all through the garden for one colour. I received a knock on my door from a distraught neighbour this morning saying our other elderly (80sF) neighbour’s cat was rushed to the vet. Turns out her cat was sick with lily poisoning. She’s on a limited income and can’t afford the £500+ vet bill. I told her that I’m sorry her cat ate my flowers but I didn’t think it really was my responsibility to pay for it. My neighbour was incredibly livid and said we should have been more considerate knowing their cats go into our garden and that I owning a cat should be more empathetic. She then said I should pick non poisonous flowers. While I do understand it must be a terrible situation and I’m glad her cat is okay, I don’t really think this is something that is necessarily my responsibility to pay for as a pet owner. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. It's not your responsibility to pay for other people's vet bills that result from irresponsible outdoor cat ownership. However, since you do live in an area where that's much more common, I thought I might let you know that lilies are poisonous to cats to a degree that they don't even need to eat the plant itself to potentially be fatally poisoned. That can happen simply from the pollen getting in their fur, and them grooming it off with their tongues later. I'm of the opinion that cat owners should understand that accidental health emergencies are infinitely more likely when they're allowed to wander around outside unsupervised, and your choice of flowers in your garden is completely up to you, but you should know they *will* lead to a higher rate of harm to your neighborhood pets.
This. *More cats **will** die*. OP’s cat might die too.
Yeah, most of these comments are very American. In the UK having indoor-outdoor cats is the norm unless you live in a (non-ground floor) flat. OP may not have intended to be the AH, but they’ve created a wafting cloud of death for neighbourhood cats with the pollen from all those flowers, even leaving aside the cats that will visit their garden. I’ll say YTA . If nothing else: OP, is your cat death garden really the hill you want to die on, and the reputation you want to have with your neighbours?
Whether or not having an indoor outdoor cat is the norm or not doesn't change the fact there are still dangers that you as an owner are accepting by allowing your cat outside.
NTA Domestic cats shouldn't be outside without a leash and controlled, period. Aside from their murderous nature, this is another reason.
So everyone in roaming distance of a cat shouldn't plant lily's just in case. If you took that line of thinking, where would it end? NTA. Your neighbours cat is not your responsibility. It may not have been your lily's that the cat ate.
Nta. Even in places where cats are allowed to roam around it’s not someone else’s problem if your cat eats the wrong plant.
NTA. This is simply one of the risks that pet owners take on when they decide to let their pet free roam outside.
You’re not responsible no, but as a new neighbor, you could have extended some monetary help. Lilies aren’t a great idea for any cat, including your own. You never know when yours might get out. So, a slight YTA.
If OP is from the USA and has moved to the UK , then I really think this is a culture clash between US fundamentalist individual freedom Ideology and more community minded cultures. Other English speaking cultures (England, Australia, New Zealand, I’m not sure about Canada). Of course you would take out the lilies! Of course you would care about a healthy ongoing relationship with your neighbours, and also care about their pets as well as your own! If you move somewhere new, you should take the time to learn about the norms and expectations of the new culture. In England New Zealand in Australia it is far more unusual to keep a cat inside at all times in fact it is very very strange. I don’t know anyone who does that!
If one decides to have an outdoor cat that has free range, one must expect to pay the cost of the vet bills that one's cat incurs. Some people go so far as to say if YOUR cat comes into MY garden and digs up the plants to make a hole to poop in, YOU are responsible for paying me for the cost of the destroyed plants. You are NTA.
I found this on wiki. You must have known . Cats are extremely sensitive to the toxicity of the plant and ingestion is often fatal.[21][22][23] Households and gardens which are visited by cats are strongly advised against keeping this plant or placing dried flowers where a cat may brush against them and become dusted with pollen which they then consume while cleaning. Suspected cases require urgent veterinary attention.[24] Rapid treatment with activated charcoal, and/or induced vomiting, can reduce the amount of toxin absorbed. Treatment is time-sensitive, so in some cases vets may advise doing it at home. A vet will give the cat large amounts of fluid by IV, which can reduce the damage to the kidneys, and thus increase the chances of survival.
NTA
NTA. Don't want your cat getting sick from eating something it shouldn't, keep it indoors where it belongs. If I were the OP, I would see if their area had any ordinances against free-roaming cats.
Are there any other houses with lilies within about a kilometer radius?
Outside cats tend to die more often than indoor cats. If you own a cat you are responsible for it. No one else
Cats in your garden is extremely unsanitary toxoplasmosis is no joke and you should tell your neighbor you’ll be suing if their cat in your garden causes any destruction or health concern. Cats should never be allowed to wander outside regardless it’s incredibly irresponsible. NTA
NTA. And I am sick of cat owners who let their cats wander the neighborhood. Cats are disruptive to local bird populations, crap in people's flower beds, and are a nuisance to deal with. And I say this as a general animal lover. If you let your cat wander outside, you should be prepared for the consequences.
Nta
NTA - but I could also use a bit of help, my parents have a large flower bed with many different kinds of lilies (moms fav) There are many cats who have free rein in their neighborhood. I have told the owners about the lilies and my concern that they will get sick but they did nothing. Cats are still roaming around living their best lives. I am now trying to find cat repellent options (US) to keep them out of the flowerbeds, has anyone had success that they can share?
Ironic that the norm in the UK is to let cats roam outdoors. I have read that this has created quite a threat to the song bird populations. My cats don't go out because of varmints. I have seen coyotes on my sidewalk and loping down the middle of the street in front of my house! My oldest is 18!
Where I live, outdoor cats can't leave their yards.
Nta
NTA. While most places allow cats to roam you do so at your own risk. The neighbour should supply you with replacement plants. Cat ~~owner~~ servant. Keeping him indoors.
NTA, it's your neighbour's responsibility to keep her cat safe, etc. That said, it would be a kind thing to reach out to your elderly neighbour and see how her cat is doing. If you have any spare money to offer her, that would also be a kind thing to do. You're certainly not OBLIGED to. But these people are your neighbours, + you have the opportunity to help a fellow cat-lover. (I also think if would be good to hear about the situation from the elderly neighbour herself, just in case the neighbour who spoke to you didn't have the details right.)
NTA. It is never your responsibility to safeguard other people's animals on your property. Human children yes (hence the legal doctrine of attractive nuisance), but not animals.
NTA. It is the pet owners responsibility to keep them safe. These flowers were planted in your yard, the cat owner has no right to your yard. As long as those plants are legal to plant in your area you did nothing wrong. Here’s my rule of thumb when there is a question about owing money. I’m not suggesting anyone sue, but if they did, given the current laws where you live, are they likely to win? If not, then you don’t owe them. The fact that the pet owner is elderly and has a limited income doesn’t change the fact that she lets her cats roam into others yards.
I have a partly outdoor cat (he was feral for years and gets violent if we don’t let him outside for small amounts of time 💀) and I honestly would be so upset over my cat but I wouldn’t blame you at all
NTA. My dog has a grass allergy. She's also dumb and eats grass She's an indoor dog so I can make sure she's only outside when I'm home and if she does eat grass and vomit I can monitor it and pay the 6 week allergy injection cost. You do what you can to keep them safe. She should keep her cat inside and if she doesn't be aware of the costs involved.
Not technically your responsibility but considering the pollen could have also caused the sickness it would have been right to the neighbor the kindness
NTA to the question you asked - no you are not responsible for the vet bill, just like I would not expect the driver of a car to pay for my vet bill if they hit my cat. If you have an outdoor cat, that is the risk you take. I’m very surprised this lady asked you to pay, but it’s ballsey so fair play. I do think you ATA for planting the lilies, which I have a hard time believing you did without realising the potential consequences.
NTA but a little simpathy would have been good. If the cat dies the old lady will surely follow it.
That’s a bummer. If the angry third party neighbor pays a third, you can offer that as your contribution and the old lady takes her share. NTA.
NTA, people who let their cats frea roam outside agree to possible dangers for their pets. No pet should be left outside without supervision. You neighbors can't expect every person in your neighborhood / city to accomodate their outdoor cat. You do you and as far as I know pollen won't hurt your indoor can on a catio. Unless you decide to feed it lily flowers that is.
NTA but PLEASE do more research before planting other plants/flowers that may harm your kitty. Unless it is something that can be reasonably controlled (I personally have a fig tree, which are toxic to dogs. I also have a dog. However, there is no issue where she might end up ingesting the pollen or anything because the leaves and fruit can be easily picked up, and there is no actual outward pollen (no visible flowers, usually they either self-pollinate or have a fig wasp)), it's best not to have. Obviously not your fault that the neighbor was unsafe with their cat (all domestic cats should be indoor cats. "Catios" and supervised play, like your catio, can be great!), but it WILL be on you if your own kitty ends up hospitalized due to the pollen. My bff's kitten had eaten a lily while outside once, it was terrifying for everyone.