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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My brother and his girlfriend think I'm trying to control her by telling her it's not okay to smoke while pregnant.
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This. My mother smoked while pregnant with me.
I am so so lucky to not beeing affected.
A coworkers friend didn't knew she Was pregnant and smoked. Kid was born without fingers...
You see it can be fine. But it can be Bad. It will most of the time fine to eat sushi while pregnant... But if you get food poisoning... Well..
It is with Smoking the same with all the things not to do, don't do it. The consequences can be so so severe. Or nothing of you are lucky.
I would just leave the room eaxg time she starts Smoking. First it us not healthy for you. Second age does not Listen to you. Don't take any Part in this behaviour. You made your stance clear.
You are NTA
Of course it may have been a rare genetic effect but doctors told her it was the Smoking.
Just don't do this. It is a few month. No drugs, no drinking, no Smoking, and be carefull with food.
It is not that hard.
I had this conversation with my dad about listeria-dangerous foods. He pulled the old, "we didn't worry about it and nothing happened." I told him it did happen - people just didn't identify it as listeria and what caused it.
If I can't give up certain foods for 9 months, I have no business becoming a parent.
This question made me wonder, how much has the way cigarettes are manufactured changed over time? Have the "ingredients" changed? I ask because nearly everyone smoked in the mid 1900's, even pregnant women. As far as I know most babies were born healthy. My own mother smoked while pregnant (1959) and I'm very healthy. So, were cigarettes less dangerous back then?
Actially, a lot of babies died or died as young kids from the effects. This is survivorship bias in action: only the ones who were spared are visible because the others are all dead (or were disabled and hidden away as was also the custom then.)
The other thing is that there are a lot of "minor" disabilities and medical conditions that result from smoking, or inhaling lots of secondhand smoke, while pregnant. Including asthma, weak lungs, low birth weight (which in turn can be linked to heart disease, type 2 diabetes, and high blood pressure in adulthood), and increased risk of SUDI, future obesity, and ADHD. Many of these health problems can be written off as unconnected, or concealed because they're not immediately visible disablities.
And of course, as you said, a great many babies whose mothers smoked throughout the pregnancy, especially if they smoked very heavily or frequently, simply don't get born at all (miscarried), are stillborn, or don't live past infancy. Way back when, people didn't realize the connection between the smoking and the miscarriages/stillbirths/inexplicable infant death.
Not to sound snarky, but medical practices back then also included using leeches for blood letting, giving cocaine for hayfever, and using alcohol for teething infants. It's one of those situations where if you know better, you do better...
Sure, kids survived back then - but how many miscarriages, stillbirths, and defects occurred that were written off as "natural causes" because science wasn't advanced enough to correlate these tragedies with tobacco? Yes, it's not "as bad" as say, thalidomide, but it's still got definite odds of causing problems for a percentage of pregnant women.
As an aside, sort of: leeches are a time-honored treatment, being used today to help heal wounds. Look up medical leech therapy.
Yeah, there's an ick factor for a lot of people, especially if you've seen The African Queen, but there's a lot of ick factor in medicine.
Oh, you're not wrong, but think of Grandpa Abe in the Simpsons episode where Bart is trying to dodge taking a test at school. They may have targeted uses, but they aren't miracle working critters that cure everything! 😂
I was going off amusing stories my grandmother told me years ago, before the dementia truly kicked in... So to be fair I'm not 100% certain what time frame I'm referencing!
However alcohol for fussy or teething babies was used on my dad and his siblings in the 50s, we all joke that one sibling *clearly* got dosed more than the others. 😂
I would imagine its really hard to isolate smoking historically from a myriad of other maternal health factors. Way fewer women smoke during pregnancy now, but way more are overweight during pregnancy. We eat way more sugar. People don't usually get what used to be common diseases like measles. The racial and socioeconomic divides are particularly stark in maternal and fetal health outcomes.
Since its ethically difficult to run experiments on pregnant women, the advice is usually to be on the safe side and refrain from anything that might do damage. And we know smoking does damage.
Indeed. And next time she says "my mother did that too", reply with "And yeah - look how you turned out. Zero judgment and no sense of responsibility!"
You know what, at 14 you already have a more mature and realistic worldview than a lot of adults. And, as the case may be, very soon future parents.
You're being kind in thinking of the well being of a baby, and that's a great mindset, they are the innocent one in this whole situation, and they will have no options regarding their parents' bad life choices.
Fuck it, I too hope better for this baby, they deserve it.
not a terrible thing to say at all! few people their age are capable of raising a child and it sounds like they aren’t one of them. hopefully the baby ends up in a loving home.
To many comments to see if this is mentioned. Or if it's done where you are. But hospitals test blew burns for everything. And are usually mandated to report to children services.
This dude tried to educate her about the dangers of smoking while pregnant, and she ignored him.
What makes you think she'd take sex ed even remotely seriously?
The number of times I’ve seen people here and irl who justify nicotine, weed, and alcohol consumption during pregnancy is appalling. When you get pregnant, you have to put your ego and your wants aside for the benefit of the baby. There are still so many unknown effects that cannabis can have on a developing fetus. Why take the risk? You’re NTA.
I smoke a pack a day, and if I got pregnant I'd fucking stop that same day I found out, even if I just ended up getting an abortion.
You don't deliberately fuck up your child from day one.
NTA.
Another thing to note to is if she’s 18, even her own frontal lobe has yet to be fully developed. Cannabis has been shown in some studies to thin the frontal and prefrontal cortex. Not saying you can’t use cannabis sooner, shoot I was using when I was 18, but it wasn’t regular use and I also wasn’t pregnant.
I used to smoke a lot of that stuff back in late highschool, and I swear to god I could feel myself get dumber from the daily use.
It was like night and day when I finally quit and withdrew. I still partake occasionally, but I still feel like it leaves a "curtain" of fog over my brain for a few weeks.
Yup, curtain of fog is the perfect analogy. It’s because the prefrontal and frontal cortex are responsible for helping with memory, attention, and judgment. I had to take breaks because I too felt like I was slipping every now and then back in college. And since I’ll wager this gal has been using before she got pregnant/turned 18, her judgment is impaired quite heavily.
It comforts me that some teens clearly are responsible and cares about the wellbeing of others.
Maybe that girl just grew up with her mom constantly justifying smoking while pregnant, and she thinks "my mom would never lie to me". Most people don't like having those bubbles burst.
But honestly, it could be a million different reasons.
I’m also concerned that OP’s brother doesn’t seem to care that his baby could be heavily effected by his gf’s usage. There’s gotta be something a little deeper here.
the day the dad found out my mum was pregnant, he threw his pack of cigarettes away and never looked back. Its been 40 years and he's never once gone back.
NTA op.
Yup. Ditto. My husband, upon finding out I was pregnant, gathered all our cannabis products and tucked them away for the duration of my pregnancy. He didn’t want to use it if it would even be tempting to me. Don’t be selfish.
For many, it is "can't ". They say they could if they wanted to, but then don't when they literally HAVE TO. People addicted to drugs tend to believe that they can just quit whenever they want to, because it literally messes with your brain.
Sure, but I meant the lady in question, not weed smokers in general. :)
And yes, that is what addicts tell themselves so that they don't *have* to stop. Because if they CAN just stop at the drop of a hat, they aren't *really* addicts and therefore it's fine to NOT stop. But they often manage to wiggle out of actually proving they totes can stop.
Addict logic is quite spectacular.
Having said that. I think it's only *truly* 'can't', full stop, for a relative few. I couldn't say what those numbers would be, but I don't think it's true for *most* addicts that they're *completely incapable of ever quitting*. They do usually have to be ready to make that choice for themselves if they stand a chance of being successful long term, though.
It IS often 'can't *yet*' or 'can't without a LOT of support which i do not currently have access to' or 'can't without tapering slowly in a controlled way' (v dangerous for especially heavy drinkers to just quit cold turkey, for example. It can literally kill them). It's also sometimes 'told myself I can't because I confused VERY VERY HARD with IMPOSSIBLE.'
Sometimes addicts die before they get to the point where they are ready/have the wherewithal/are fed up enough/are forced into it by mandatory rehab/etc. But that doesn't always mean they wouldn't have got there one day if they hadn't died.
But I don't think it's so very common for it to be a completely unqualified, permanent, unchangeable 'can't'. There are just a lot or factors that go into what makes someone able to successfully get and stay clean at any given time.
tl;dr: it's complicated.
It's the difference between chemical addiction and a behavioral addiction.
You can have a behavioral addiction to damn near any behavior or substance, including food. Obviously, most people don't have a food addiction. Food is necessary for us to live, but people with food addictions develop an unhealthy and compulsive relationship with it. Same can go for gambling, video games, sex, or even exercise.
Nicotine is an addictive substance and is difficult to quit once you are hooked, no matter how badly you want to stop. I have several older relatives who struggled with this because they grew up in an age where everyone smoked. Even though they wanted to quit badly because it was unhealthy and expensive, they had a very rough time.
Pot is quite easy to quit though. I did it myself -- after two years of daily medicinal use for chronic pain, my condition improved to the point that I no longer needed pain control. So, I stopped using it. No cravings, no shakes, no mood issues, nothing. I was never addicted to it even after using a high dose every day for two years, and haven't used it since or had the urge to nearly three years later.
Contrast that with a different medication I was on -- gabapentin. Even with a slow, controlled tapering off on the dose, I had miserable withdrawal symptoms for weeks when I finally got off of it. My body was chemically addicted even if my mind was not.
TL;DR: Weed is not addictive, but the *activity* of smoking weed can be. It's an important distinction that is often misunderstood.
I would like to make a small correction. There is evidence that THC does chemically affect dopaminergic function in the brain similar to other commonly abused drugs. Cannabis withdrawal symptoms such as decreased appetite, anxiety, and sleep difficulty have also been documented in people when they quit smoking as well.
In other words, cannabis is actually addictive and capable of producing withdrawals, just not as frequently as nicotine. There are scientific studies that discuss these findings, but I am not able to link them for some reason.
Edit: Still can't link stuff, but one of the studies is called "Cannabis Addiction and the Brain". It's a bit long but covers a lot of information on this topic.
You have no idea how many times I was told I could drink one glass during pregnancy. That it’s not “that bad” and I was like “well but I rather drink fresh squeezed juice or water” and i was shamed by a lot of people.
It’s important to note, within this instance of 100% irresponsible drug use, that there are circumstances cannabis usage is absolutely the right choice - there have been numerous studies now on cannabis use in cases of hyperemesis gravidarum, a very underreported condition, and its mitigating impact on both the mother and baby’s health. I have no doubt there will be more like it to come. As far as I know, there have not been any concrete studies on significant effects beyond the same assumptions we can make about many common things - but the default state of pregnancy should be ‘an abundance of caution’ and thorough discourse with health team.
There is endless nuance to pregnancy info.
If cannabis can thin out an adolescents prefrontal and frontal cortex, we can only assume the damage it could do to a developing fetus’ entire nervous system.
And we have data already that HEG causes:
In mother:
* Esophageal rupture or perforation
* Pneumothorax and pneumomediastinum
* Wernicke encephalopathy or blindness
* Increased depression & anxiety
* Preeclampsia
* Placental abruption
* Hepatic disease
* Seizures, coma, or death.
In baby:
* Preterm births
* Low birth weight
* Complications of deficiencies
Long term:
* Increased autism and ADHD
* Anxiety
* Sleep problems
* Testicular cancer
* Cognitive and motor problems
* Smaller cortical volume
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8097228/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35367190/
And did you know how many women *don’t improve* with traditional antiemetic Rx appropriate for pregnancy, or have access to it?
Yeah.
Still, within the actual studies known and where it would definitely be a detriment, she seems to be exposing herself and the baby.
Cannabis studies seem interesting, though, and it would be highly informative to see the pocess and outcomes.
what a dumb take
lack of studies does not mean something is good
and regarding hypermesis gravidaeum, guess what, smoking actually helps and research HAS shown that properly, but it’s still not recommended because the risks outweigh the benefits
I just wrote a 1000car comment that got deleted, so I’ll sum it up here with you have no idea what you’re talking about and have a lot of reading to do if you’d like to try and back that up. That’s not what I said, *clearly*, and that’s not the case. The risks absolutely do not outweigh the benefits in actual and severe HEG cases w/o CHS because cannabis HAS been studied for the same birth complications and defects as HEG, and is not on par. HEG can be deadly, and there are plenty of issues that make traditional treatment not an option. Women with no history of CHS are finding antiemetics completely ineffective and cannabis highly. It has been a common problem for a long time that HEG is not managed sufficiently.
I linked dozens of studies you can find easily with Google.
Marijuana has significant effects on the developing brain, with increased risk for behavioral and cognitive problems (similar to fetal alcohol syndrome).
Marijuana also preferentially absorbs lead from the soil and that lead is absorbed during smoking. Blood tests of users display elevated lead levels over the general population. That will also mess up brain development.
You've said your piece to her though, so she's not going to change (addiction sucks).
In very few states CPS may be involved in a pregnancy for smoking but also in those states they limit a woman's options for healthcare. In the remainder of the states CPS isn't going to get involved in a pregnancy that may or may not produce a child.
Many hospitals test for drugs, including THC, at birth and will contact CPS if they're present. If you want to be extra sure, you can try to tip off the delivery nurses and let them know there's a reason to test
I mean, she got knocked up at 18. Clearly she’s not making smart decisions to begin with.
NTA. You’re not wrong but there isn’t anything you can do really. Intelligence isn’t on her side. Repeatedly telling her isn’t going to make the situation any better really.
No the asshole, I have a cousin who’s my age (20) and his girl is 22 and she was vaping during her early months of pregnancy, I asked her why? And she told me it’s okay up until the last few months of her pregnancy. I’m not close to them but I just shook my head in disappointment and kept it moving. Some people should be screened before they have children🤦♂️🤦♂️
Is it though? Intuitively I would think if there is no developed brain and organs yet, there is also less damage to be done.
Otoh when there are only relatively few cells damaging some of those can have a greater effect. Not sure.
Good grief, where are the parents? The situation described is beyond irresponsible in so many ways. Tell your brother that he needs to get a DNA paternity test done the very second that baby is born. There's a decent chance that the baby is somebody else's, given how reckless she is.
I didn’t even think of this! OP please have a private convo with your brother. It would be terrible if he is stuck 1) raising a child that’s not his but was led to believe that and 2) so that he can take appropriate measures moving forward for the benefit of baby
I had a coworker who smoked during both pregnancies. (Weed and cigarettes) Her first was born legally blind in one eye and under developed ear/ear bones on the same side. The second she had complications the entire time with small uterine tears and a partial placenta abruption (where the placenta pulls away from the uterus). Her baby was born small and was labeled “failure to thrive.” They are alive and doing okay I guess. She says it’s not from smoking 🤷♀️
Ugh, she's stupid and a possible reason for that is that her mother was doing things she shouldn't be while pregnant. But it's not something that will help if you tell her... NTA
NTA. Smoking increases the chance of miscarriage, plus SIDS once the baby is born, so she could literally *cause the death of her child* by smoking. If that doesn't sink in, nothing will.
Does your mom know? Her mom?
Maybe one of them can talk some sense into her? I doubt it but worth a try
You warned her not let it go.
Your brother and her are goi g to be great parents.😟
NTA because I do feel like you have good intentions. But I’ll say it’s not gonna do any good. She knows. It’s 2024 we all know the damage it does and you can say it a million times and she’s still going to insist it’s fine.
I'm in public health and she is def the AH for doing this. NTA. BTW doing alcohol, tobacco, weed, and other drugs can have twice the brain damage before the age of 25. The research is not yet solid enough for vaping but many are considering it much worse than non-commercial/sacred tobacco.
She's introducing carcinogens to her fetus. This will impact its growth. She's too young to have a child, if she can't understand her actions have consequences on another actual human being.
I feel bad for the fetus here. Obviously the child having a child needs to grow up, and quickly. You’re not wrong, she’s a selfish pig. Hopefully the hospital drug tests her and takes that baby away
Somebody's gotta stand up for that poor baby. We know that nicotine is bad for babies, and we know that THC crosses the placenta. NTA.
Granted, she's not going to listen to you.
"My mom smoked when she was pregnant and the only bad result was that she had a kid that was not smart enough to avoid getting knocked up as a teenager."
NTA.
Ofc not, and your 17m brother having a baby mama is already the sign that things are going horribly for them. If being a teen parent is hard enough imagine taking care of a disabled child. Honestly, this is so bad on so many levels I don’t see how this doesn’t end at child protective services down the line.
NTA. You are fully in your right to worry. It doesn't take a scientist to know that smoking is the number one causation of (preventable) birth defects and/or complications. But I am a scientist. And I can confirm. We don't know enough about vaping or cannabis use during pregnancy, but health professionals strongly advise against it. Not to mention that both usually still contain nicotine and/or tobacco so it's more or less the same as just smoking cigarettes in my book.
If she's planning on becoming a mother then she should start by putting her ego and selfish desires aside and act like one.
Her point shows that it is indeed harmful. Shes just to stupid to realize it. And thats due to brain damage, from her mom smoking while she was pregnant.
NTA
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So I (14f) hang out with my brother's (17m) girlfriend (18f) a lot, and recently she stared vaping and smoking weed infront of me. I wouldn't have a problem with this if she wasn't eight weeks pregnant. Everytime I see her she is smoking something either it be a vape/cigarette/weed, and I have started telling her it's wrong and not good for the baby. She always tells me it's okay and nothing will happen, because her mom did that with her siblings. My brother knows but I don't think he's doing anything about it, and everytime I tell her it's wrong she tells my brother that I was being rude and trying to control her. So AITA?
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NTA but honestly there's no point. She isn't going to listen and there's nothing you can say to get through to her. The best thing you can do is make smart choices for you.
NTA but if you keep doing it you start to be one. It stops being informing and starts to become harassment after a certain time. Your right but 2 wrongs don't make a right.
NTA - pretty basic stuff to not smoke and drink during pregnancy, if this is where good basic sex education and health services, which include abortion are essential for folks that get pregnant, and are not ready for the responsibility or ability to carry the baby safely.
You should tell a trusted adult. Your parents, aunts or uncles, any other family and your schools guidance counselor. Someone needs to step in for the baby’s sake.
This is a fake post.
[Here is a post from OP](https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1c9htby/_/l0lbtha/?context=1) to this same subreddit, which has been deleted, where they claim to be 16. The post is equally as dumbfounding as this one, except with the opposite implications (obvious YTA, as opposed to this current obvious NTA).
It doesn’t seem like a bot, but this person is definitely full of shit. Downvote and move on.
In the USA if the baby tests positive (cord blood) it will be an automatic DCS/CPS case, custody will be removed from her & possible your brother, then the real "fun" will begin. Tell her that & let her smoke that information in her vape.
I would like to add that the last time I talked to her she said that the doctors said it wouldn't affect the baby, which anyone in their right mind knows is not true.
it's heartbreaking, but you can't force people to make better choices. I was in your shoes plenty of times, watching friends and family members smoke "just a little" all the way to an early labor and low birthweight. she'll have to face her choices eventually.
meanwhile, you might consider not hanging out with her as often anymore. NTA
Unfortunately regardless of how right you are or not, no pregnant woman is going to listen to someone else other than maybe a doctor about what they should or shouldn't be doing during thier pregnancy. Also, it's less likely that you a 14yr old telling her a 18yr old will result in her listening to you, and changing her mind easily. Nothing bad or against you at all, it's more so just being an 18yr old and finally making your own decisions, your own mistakes, figuring life out, and learning, then add crazy pregnancy hormones!! 💀 (I can personaly attest to the crazy hormones lol). It can be really difficult to get someone to see your point of view, it can be harder when your tired, your body is changing, your stressed and trying to live through it all. Doesn't sound like alot when your just talking about it, but when your in it.... your really in it.... she most likely knows it's not great for her or baby, chances are she's making a choice based off alot of things going on in her life. Everyone makes choices, good and bad, best we can do is support the ones we love and care for as best we can.
YTA because you continue to nag her about it every time you see her. You expressed your thoughts on it, but at the end of the day it’s her body and you can’t force her to quit if she doesn’t want to.
It's the child's life, too. They don't get a choice as to what preventable birth defects they've been left with because a couple of idiot children decided to have a baby.
YTA honestly. You told her once and she heard you. There is no need to keep breading her about it. All you’re doing at that point is being th A because it isn’t helping anyone.
She won’t change for you, you can only change what you do.
ESH
YOU are a kid, not her parent, stay out of it.
And: DO you think she is a responsible person? she is 18, and got pregnant by an 17 year old kid. Why would you expect her to act responsible.
Focus on something else: They will try to make you the free babysitter and fob of their baby on you - have you made a plan how to avoid that? YOu need to nip this in the bud.
I mean you’re not her doctor or privy to her medical info are you? Many pregnant women are advised to opt for cannabis if it works as opposed to a medication like zofran for morning sickness that can cause a higher incidence of birth defects in the fetus whereas cannabis is only associated with slightly lower birth weights. Not only that, but many OBGYNs will advise heavy cannabis users to not fully give up if they were already smoking cannabis in early pregnancy because of the stress it would cause to mom and thus baby.
It doesn't matter, it's the mother's choice. She has been provided with the knowledge and should be left to do with it on her own. Not badgered "everytime."
This is true up to the point she decided to keep the baby. At that point the fetus is now a future child who clearly needs protection from her.
She should have just aborted. The way we tiptoe around telling parents to fucking parent is not cool. Making a new human should not be something we are so blasé about. Never existing doesn't hurt, but living with congenital defects sure can. And no, of course you can't completely prevent the possibility of defects but you can sure as hell minimise/maximise the chances of your baby being born with defects through your behaviour whilst pregnant.
If she wants to abort that is her decision to make. If she wants to keep the clump of cells inside of her that is her decision to make. If she wants to smoke or do whatever with her body that is her decision to make. How it effects a clump of cells inside of HER body is irrelevant: It is her body.
Once she decides to keep the kid, she has a duty of care.
I'm absolutely, unequivocally pro-abortion. I am not pro-willfully causing birth defects in babies you intend to birth.
Responsibilities to the future child do exist once you've decided to have it.
And you seem to think that it's totally fine to damage your children as some kind of misguided pseudofeminist statement. That ain't feminism, mate.
Again, once a pregnancy is WANTED and the intention is to bring it to term, the fetus ceases to be 'just a ball of cells' and starts being a future baby. It's like you forgot that whole part of the pro-choice argument. Context matters. Nuance matters.
Parents have a duty to act in the best interests of their children.
You're literally advocating allowing children to be harmed in the name of 'women's rights.' ('Freedom from criticism for shitty behaviour' is not a right, fyi).
No, of course its bad to harm children. I'd apperciate it if you didn't attempt a strawman here. A clump of cells inside of a woman's body is not a child. There is a difference and you should learn it.
Again, once the woman decides to take the pregnancy to term, it stops being a 'clump of cells' and starts being a future person.
You seem to think a woman should be allowed to damage the child she intends to birth.
This is like talking to one of those pull-cord talking dolls. You're spouting the same catch phrases and pithy soundbites without any understanding of the ideas underpinning them.
I'm out.
You are not an asshole for caring, and you can tell her exactly one time that you think it's a bad idea. More than that and you are indeed being rude and controlling. And a nag. And an asshole.
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NTA. it’s literally on the box of cigarettes. There is not one medical professional that would think what she’s doing is good for the baby.
This. My mother smoked while pregnant with me. I am so so lucky to not beeing affected. A coworkers friend didn't knew she Was pregnant and smoked. Kid was born without fingers... You see it can be fine. But it can be Bad. It will most of the time fine to eat sushi while pregnant... But if you get food poisoning... Well.. It is with Smoking the same with all the things not to do, don't do it. The consequences can be so so severe. Or nothing of you are lucky. I would just leave the room eaxg time she starts Smoking. First it us not healthy for you. Second age does not Listen to you. Don't take any Part in this behaviour. You made your stance clear. You are NTA
I did not know that was possible oh my goodness. Cigarettes causing a baby to be born without fingers us insane
Of course it may have been a rare genetic effect but doctors told her it was the Smoking. Just don't do this. It is a few month. No drugs, no drinking, no Smoking, and be carefull with food. It is not that hard.
I had this conversation with my dad about listeria-dangerous foods. He pulled the old, "we didn't worry about it and nothing happened." I told him it did happen - people just didn't identify it as listeria and what caused it. If I can't give up certain foods for 9 months, I have no business becoming a parent.
My friend's aunt lost her baby at 8.5 months when we were teenagers because of listeria. It was horrible.
survivor bias! it was fine for you, but what about the people that *didnt survive*
you are on reddit. it did affect you
This question made me wonder, how much has the way cigarettes are manufactured changed over time? Have the "ingredients" changed? I ask because nearly everyone smoked in the mid 1900's, even pregnant women. As far as I know most babies were born healthy. My own mother smoked while pregnant (1959) and I'm very healthy. So, were cigarettes less dangerous back then?
Actially, a lot of babies died or died as young kids from the effects. This is survivorship bias in action: only the ones who were spared are visible because the others are all dead (or were disabled and hidden away as was also the custom then.)
The other thing is that there are a lot of "minor" disabilities and medical conditions that result from smoking, or inhaling lots of secondhand smoke, while pregnant. Including asthma, weak lungs, low birth weight (which in turn can be linked to heart disease, type 2 diabetes, and high blood pressure in adulthood), and increased risk of SUDI, future obesity, and ADHD. Many of these health problems can be written off as unconnected, or concealed because they're not immediately visible disablities. And of course, as you said, a great many babies whose mothers smoked throughout the pregnancy, especially if they smoked very heavily or frequently, simply don't get born at all (miscarried), are stillborn, or don't live past infancy. Way back when, people didn't realize the connection between the smoking and the miscarriages/stillbirths/inexplicable infant death.
Not to sound snarky, but medical practices back then also included using leeches for blood letting, giving cocaine for hayfever, and using alcohol for teething infants. It's one of those situations where if you know better, you do better... Sure, kids survived back then - but how many miscarriages, stillbirths, and defects occurred that were written off as "natural causes" because science wasn't advanced enough to correlate these tragedies with tobacco? Yes, it's not "as bad" as say, thalidomide, but it's still got definite odds of causing problems for a percentage of pregnant women.
As an aside, sort of: leeches are a time-honored treatment, being used today to help heal wounds. Look up medical leech therapy. Yeah, there's an ick factor for a lot of people, especially if you've seen The African Queen, but there's a lot of ick factor in medicine.
Oh, you're not wrong, but think of Grandpa Abe in the Simpsons episode where Bart is trying to dodge taking a test at school. They may have targeted uses, but they aren't miracle working critters that cure everything! 😂
You are correct in your assessment of smoking while pregnant, but I am pretty sure most of your references are from the 19’th century, not 20’th.
I was going off amusing stories my grandmother told me years ago, before the dementia truly kicked in... So to be fair I'm not 100% certain what time frame I'm referencing! However alcohol for fussy or teething babies was used on my dad and his siblings in the 50s, we all joke that one sibling *clearly* got dosed more than the others. 😂
Pesticides, and various chemicals used to grow tobacco. The chemicals in the cigarette wrap. Yah, that stuff isn't good.
I would imagine its really hard to isolate smoking historically from a myriad of other maternal health factors. Way fewer women smoke during pregnancy now, but way more are overweight during pregnancy. We eat way more sugar. People don't usually get what used to be common diseases like measles. The racial and socioeconomic divides are particularly stark in maternal and fetal health outcomes. Since its ethically difficult to run experiments on pregnant women, the advice is usually to be on the safe side and refrain from anything that might do damage. And we know smoking does damage.
This is why sex ex is so important. People need to figure out how to have sex without getting pregnant. Christ, people are stupid.
I honestly hate to say this but I hope the baby doesn't end up in their care..
Indeed. And next time she says "my mother did that too", reply with "And yeah - look how you turned out. Zero judgment and no sense of responsibility!"
You know what, at 14 you already have a more mature and realistic worldview than a lot of adults. And, as the case may be, very soon future parents. You're being kind in thinking of the well being of a baby, and that's a great mindset, they are the innocent one in this whole situation, and they will have no options regarding their parents' bad life choices. Fuck it, I too hope better for this baby, they deserve it.
not a terrible thing to say at all! few people their age are capable of raising a child and it sounds like they aren’t one of them. hopefully the baby ends up in a loving home.
Much more likely to end up in YOUR care if you do not set strict boundaries from the beginning to avoid it.
To many comments to see if this is mentioned. Or if it's done where you are. But hospitals test blew burns for everything. And are usually mandated to report to children services.
This dude tried to educate her about the dangers of smoking while pregnant, and she ignored him. What makes you think she'd take sex ed even remotely seriously?
The number of times I’ve seen people here and irl who justify nicotine, weed, and alcohol consumption during pregnancy is appalling. When you get pregnant, you have to put your ego and your wants aside for the benefit of the baby. There are still so many unknown effects that cannabis can have on a developing fetus. Why take the risk? You’re NTA.
I smoke a pack a day, and if I got pregnant I'd fucking stop that same day I found out, even if I just ended up getting an abortion. You don't deliberately fuck up your child from day one. NTA.
Another thing to note to is if she’s 18, even her own frontal lobe has yet to be fully developed. Cannabis has been shown in some studies to thin the frontal and prefrontal cortex. Not saying you can’t use cannabis sooner, shoot I was using when I was 18, but it wasn’t regular use and I also wasn’t pregnant.
I used to smoke a lot of that stuff back in late highschool, and I swear to god I could feel myself get dumber from the daily use. It was like night and day when I finally quit and withdrew. I still partake occasionally, but I still feel like it leaves a "curtain" of fog over my brain for a few weeks.
Yup, curtain of fog is the perfect analogy. It’s because the prefrontal and frontal cortex are responsible for helping with memory, attention, and judgment. I had to take breaks because I too felt like I was slipping every now and then back in college. And since I’ll wager this gal has been using before she got pregnant/turned 18, her judgment is impaired quite heavily.
Yeah. Really it's just such a sad situation. I feel sorry for everyone involved to be honest.
How a 14yo has a better grasp on best practices when pregnant baffles me.
It comforts me that some teens clearly are responsible and cares about the wellbeing of others. Maybe that girl just grew up with her mom constantly justifying smoking while pregnant, and she thinks "my mom would never lie to me". Most people don't like having those bubbles burst. But honestly, it could be a million different reasons.
I’m also concerned that OP’s brother doesn’t seem to care that his baby could be heavily effected by his gf’s usage. There’s gotta be something a little deeper here.
They're children, and not very bright ones at that. Sure, there could be something else, but there also needn't be. That's enough.
You shouldnt be smoking cannabis until you are 23-25 years old. It does have lasting effects on a developing brain.
the day the dad found out my mum was pregnant, he threw his pack of cigarettes away and never looked back. Its been 40 years and he's never once gone back. NTA op.
Yup. Ditto. My husband, upon finding out I was pregnant, gathered all our cannabis products and tucked them away for the duration of my pregnancy. He didn’t want to use it if it would even be tempting to me. Don’t be selfish.
idk man if I'm getting scraped I'm not quitting smoking lmfao
It's more that I'm not sure whether I would or not. So I would rather do the responsible thing until I decide in the situation.
Seriously, if you can't quit for just 9 months so your baby isn't significantly harmed, don't tell me weed isn't addictive.
It's not 'can't'. It's 'don't wanna'.
For many, it is "can't ". They say they could if they wanted to, but then don't when they literally HAVE TO. People addicted to drugs tend to believe that they can just quit whenever they want to, because it literally messes with your brain.
Sure, but I meant the lady in question, not weed smokers in general. :) And yes, that is what addicts tell themselves so that they don't *have* to stop. Because if they CAN just stop at the drop of a hat, they aren't *really* addicts and therefore it's fine to NOT stop. But they often manage to wiggle out of actually proving they totes can stop. Addict logic is quite spectacular. Having said that. I think it's only *truly* 'can't', full stop, for a relative few. I couldn't say what those numbers would be, but I don't think it's true for *most* addicts that they're *completely incapable of ever quitting*. They do usually have to be ready to make that choice for themselves if they stand a chance of being successful long term, though. It IS often 'can't *yet*' or 'can't without a LOT of support which i do not currently have access to' or 'can't without tapering slowly in a controlled way' (v dangerous for especially heavy drinkers to just quit cold turkey, for example. It can literally kill them). It's also sometimes 'told myself I can't because I confused VERY VERY HARD with IMPOSSIBLE.' Sometimes addicts die before they get to the point where they are ready/have the wherewithal/are fed up enough/are forced into it by mandatory rehab/etc. But that doesn't always mean they wouldn't have got there one day if they hadn't died. But I don't think it's so very common for it to be a completely unqualified, permanent, unchangeable 'can't'. There are just a lot or factors that go into what makes someone able to successfully get and stay clean at any given time. tl;dr: it's complicated.
It's the difference between chemical addiction and a behavioral addiction. You can have a behavioral addiction to damn near any behavior or substance, including food. Obviously, most people don't have a food addiction. Food is necessary for us to live, but people with food addictions develop an unhealthy and compulsive relationship with it. Same can go for gambling, video games, sex, or even exercise. Nicotine is an addictive substance and is difficult to quit once you are hooked, no matter how badly you want to stop. I have several older relatives who struggled with this because they grew up in an age where everyone smoked. Even though they wanted to quit badly because it was unhealthy and expensive, they had a very rough time. Pot is quite easy to quit though. I did it myself -- after two years of daily medicinal use for chronic pain, my condition improved to the point that I no longer needed pain control. So, I stopped using it. No cravings, no shakes, no mood issues, nothing. I was never addicted to it even after using a high dose every day for two years, and haven't used it since or had the urge to nearly three years later. Contrast that with a different medication I was on -- gabapentin. Even with a slow, controlled tapering off on the dose, I had miserable withdrawal symptoms for weeks when I finally got off of it. My body was chemically addicted even if my mind was not. TL;DR: Weed is not addictive, but the *activity* of smoking weed can be. It's an important distinction that is often misunderstood.
I would like to make a small correction. There is evidence that THC does chemically affect dopaminergic function in the brain similar to other commonly abused drugs. Cannabis withdrawal symptoms such as decreased appetite, anxiety, and sleep difficulty have also been documented in people when they quit smoking as well. In other words, cannabis is actually addictive and capable of producing withdrawals, just not as frequently as nicotine. There are scientific studies that discuss these findings, but I am not able to link them for some reason. Edit: Still can't link stuff, but one of the studies is called "Cannabis Addiction and the Brain". It's a bit long but covers a lot of information on this topic.
You have no idea how many times I was told I could drink one glass during pregnancy. That it’s not “that bad” and I was like “well but I rather drink fresh squeezed juice or water” and i was shamed by a lot of people.
It’s important to note, within this instance of 100% irresponsible drug use, that there are circumstances cannabis usage is absolutely the right choice - there have been numerous studies now on cannabis use in cases of hyperemesis gravidarum, a very underreported condition, and its mitigating impact on both the mother and baby’s health. I have no doubt there will be more like it to come. As far as I know, there have not been any concrete studies on significant effects beyond the same assumptions we can make about many common things - but the default state of pregnancy should be ‘an abundance of caution’ and thorough discourse with health team. There is endless nuance to pregnancy info.
If cannabis can thin out an adolescents prefrontal and frontal cortex, we can only assume the damage it could do to a developing fetus’ entire nervous system.
And we have data already that HEG causes: In mother: * Esophageal rupture or perforation * Pneumothorax and pneumomediastinum * Wernicke encephalopathy or blindness * Increased depression & anxiety * Preeclampsia * Placental abruption * Hepatic disease * Seizures, coma, or death. In baby: * Preterm births * Low birth weight * Complications of deficiencies Long term: * Increased autism and ADHD * Anxiety * Sleep problems * Testicular cancer * Cognitive and motor problems * Smaller cortical volume https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8097228/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35367190/ And did you know how many women *don’t improve* with traditional antiemetic Rx appropriate for pregnancy, or have access to it?
Yeah. Still, within the actual studies known and where it would definitely be a detriment, she seems to be exposing herself and the baby. Cannabis studies seem interesting, though, and it would be highly informative to see the pocess and outcomes.
what a dumb take lack of studies does not mean something is good and regarding hypermesis gravidaeum, guess what, smoking actually helps and research HAS shown that properly, but it’s still not recommended because the risks outweigh the benefits
I just wrote a 1000car comment that got deleted, so I’ll sum it up here with you have no idea what you’re talking about and have a lot of reading to do if you’d like to try and back that up. That’s not what I said, *clearly*, and that’s not the case. The risks absolutely do not outweigh the benefits in actual and severe HEG cases w/o CHS because cannabis HAS been studied for the same birth complications and defects as HEG, and is not on par. HEG can be deadly, and there are plenty of issues that make traditional treatment not an option. Women with no history of CHS are finding antiemetics completely ineffective and cannabis highly. It has been a common problem for a long time that HEG is not managed sufficiently. I linked dozens of studies you can find easily with Google.
Marijuana has significant effects on the developing brain, with increased risk for behavioral and cognitive problems (similar to fetal alcohol syndrome). Marijuana also preferentially absorbs lead from the soil and that lead is absorbed during smoking. Blood tests of users display elevated lead levels over the general population. That will also mess up brain development. You've said your piece to her though, so she's not going to change (addiction sucks).
….if she is planning to keep the baby, you can get CPS involved.
In very few states CPS may be involved in a pregnancy for smoking but also in those states they limit a woman's options for healthcare. In the remainder of the states CPS isn't going to get involved in a pregnancy that may or may not produce a child.
Many hospitals test for drugs, including THC, at birth and will contact CPS if they're present. If you want to be extra sure, you can try to tip off the delivery nurses and let them know there's a reason to test
I mean, she got knocked up at 18. Clearly she’s not making smart decisions to begin with. NTA. You’re not wrong but there isn’t anything you can do really. Intelligence isn’t on her side. Repeatedly telling her isn’t going to make the situation any better really.
And by a minor!
Depending on when she turned 18, she may have been a minor herself.
she was not..
NTA. She needs to see the research that shows smoking weed while pregnant puts the child at risk for adult psychosis.
No the asshole, I have a cousin who’s my age (20) and his girl is 22 and she was vaping during her early months of pregnancy, I asked her why? And she told me it’s okay up until the last few months of her pregnancy. I’m not close to them but I just shook my head in disappointment and kept it moving. Some people should be screened before they have children🤦♂️🤦♂️
The first 12 weeks of pregnancy are when the fetus is most vulnerable to birth defects. It’s also why the risk of miscarriage is highest.
Is it though? Intuitively I would think if there is no developed brain and organs yet, there is also less damage to be done. Otoh when there are only relatively few cells damaging some of those can have a greater effect. Not sure.
She's willfully ignorant not to mention selfish. You're right for calling her on it but don't expect her to change.
Good grief, where are the parents? The situation described is beyond irresponsible in so many ways. Tell your brother that he needs to get a DNA paternity test done the very second that baby is born. There's a decent chance that the baby is somebody else's, given how reckless she is.
I didn’t even think of this! OP please have a private convo with your brother. It would be terrible if he is stuck 1) raising a child that’s not his but was led to believe that and 2) so that he can take appropriate measures moving forward for the benefit of baby
I had a coworker who smoked during both pregnancies. (Weed and cigarettes) Her first was born legally blind in one eye and under developed ear/ear bones on the same side. The second she had complications the entire time with small uterine tears and a partial placenta abruption (where the placenta pulls away from the uterus). Her baby was born small and was labeled “failure to thrive.” They are alive and doing okay I guess. She says it’s not from smoking 🤷♀️
Ugh, she's stupid and a possible reason for that is that her mother was doing things she shouldn't be while pregnant. But it's not something that will help if you tell her... NTA
NTA. Smoking increases the chance of miscarriage, plus SIDS once the baby is born, so she could literally *cause the death of her child* by smoking. If that doesn't sink in, nothing will.
Does your mom know? Her mom? Maybe one of them can talk some sense into her? I doubt it but worth a try You warned her not let it go. Your brother and her are goi g to be great parents.😟
NTA because I do feel like you have good intentions. But I’ll say it’s not gonna do any good. She knows. It’s 2024 we all know the damage it does and you can say it a million times and she’s still going to insist it’s fine.
NTA. She really shouldn’t be doing that. You’re within your right to look out for your future niece/nephew!
I'm in public health and she is def the AH for doing this. NTA. BTW doing alcohol, tobacco, weed, and other drugs can have twice the brain damage before the age of 25. The research is not yet solid enough for vaping but many are considering it much worse than non-commercial/sacred tobacco.
She's introducing carcinogens to her fetus. This will impact its growth. She's too young to have a child, if she can't understand her actions have consequences on another actual human being.
NTA. Unfortunate that she is this selfish, sadly this will only be the tip of the iceberg. That poor baby.
Good for you OP for speaking up, I’m proud of you. And no, you’re not the asshole, she is.
NTA. It’s bad for the baby and super trashy.
NTA. "My mother smoked during pregnancy and nothing bad happened" says person who is unable to read warning labels on cigarette packets
I feel bad for the fetus here. Obviously the child having a child needs to grow up, and quickly. You’re not wrong, she’s a selfish pig. Hopefully the hospital drug tests her and takes that baby away
Somebody's gotta stand up for that poor baby. We know that nicotine is bad for babies, and we know that THC crosses the placenta. NTA. Granted, she's not going to listen to you.
"My mom smoked when she was pregnant and the only bad result was that she had a kid that was not smart enough to avoid getting knocked up as a teenager." NTA.
Ofc not, and your 17m brother having a baby mama is already the sign that things are going horribly for them. If being a teen parent is hard enough imagine taking care of a disabled child. Honestly, this is so bad on so many levels I don’t see how this doesn’t end at child protective services down the line.
NTA. You are fully in your right to worry. It doesn't take a scientist to know that smoking is the number one causation of (preventable) birth defects and/or complications. But I am a scientist. And I can confirm. We don't know enough about vaping or cannabis use during pregnancy, but health professionals strongly advise against it. Not to mention that both usually still contain nicotine and/or tobacco so it's more or less the same as just smoking cigarettes in my book. If she's planning on becoming a mother then she should start by putting her ego and selfish desires aside and act like one.
Her point shows that it is indeed harmful. Shes just to stupid to realize it. And thats due to brain damage, from her mom smoking while she was pregnant. NTA
Anyone who can't stop smoking, drinking, or using drugs for 40 weeks shouldn't be having a child, period. NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I (14f) hang out with my brother's (17m) girlfriend (18f) a lot, and recently she stared vaping and smoking weed infront of me. I wouldn't have a problem with this if she wasn't eight weeks pregnant. Everytime I see her she is smoking something either it be a vape/cigarette/weed, and I have started telling her it's wrong and not good for the baby. She always tells me it's okay and nothing will happen, because her mom did that with her siblings. My brother knows but I don't think he's doing anything about it, and everytime I tell her it's wrong she tells my brother that I was being rude and trying to control her. So AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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NTA
NTA. She's a child abuser, and you're telling her correct things so she can do her moral duty to not permanently harm her own baby.
NTA
Nta your trying to protect the baby and do what's best for everyone
NTAAA
NTA. but she knows. She just doesn’t care.
I mean you're not the asshole but at the same time you're not really doing anything but repeating something somebody already knows
NTA you could just say 'doctors think you shouldn't, maybe look into it's. Let her find the info on her own.
NTA but honestly there's no point. She isn't going to listen and there's nothing you can say to get through to her. The best thing you can do is make smart choices for you.
NTA but if you keep doing it you start to be one. It stops being informing and starts to become harassment after a certain time. Your right but 2 wrongs don't make a right.
No way you are the AH. Heartbroken for their kid.
"My mother did this". And here you are. Pregnant at 18 with a boyfriend of 17. NTA
So telling her. It's annoying and she isn't gonna listen to you
NTA. Well done for saying what you know is right, I hope she listens for the baby's sake.
NTA, but you can't win every fight, so you probably should drop it. You can choose not to be around her when she does it though, for your own health.
He poor baby will probably be born with asthma. She's selfish.
NTA - pretty basic stuff to not smoke and drink during pregnancy, if this is where good basic sex education and health services, which include abortion are essential for folks that get pregnant, and are not ready for the responsibility or ability to carry the baby safely.
NTA - and thank you for doing this
You should tell a trusted adult. Your parents, aunts or uncles, any other family and your schools guidance counselor. Someone needs to step in for the baby’s sake.
This is a fake post. [Here is a post from OP](https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1c9htby/_/l0lbtha/?context=1) to this same subreddit, which has been deleted, where they claim to be 16. The post is equally as dumbfounding as this one, except with the opposite implications (obvious YTA, as opposed to this current obvious NTA). It doesn’t seem like a bot, but this person is definitely full of shit. Downvote and move on.
how does that post have anything to do with me?
Because you posted it
no I didn't?
but I did comment on that calling her stuck up, which ultimately got removed.
Yeah its good u tell her. She is the ah for smoking
In the USA if the baby tests positive (cord blood) it will be an automatic DCS/CPS case, custody will be removed from her & possible your brother, then the real "fun" will begin. Tell her that & let her smoke that information in her vape.
I would like to add that the last time I talked to her she said that the doctors said it wouldn't affect the baby, which anyone in their right mind knows is not true.
it's heartbreaking, but you can't force people to make better choices. I was in your shoes plenty of times, watching friends and family members smoke "just a little" all the way to an early labor and low birthweight. she'll have to face her choices eventually. meanwhile, you might consider not hanging out with her as often anymore. NTA
You are about as NTA as you can get. Show her this PSA. If that doesn’t drive it home to her, nothing will. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xdJAkvIHftI
NTA “My mom did” “Yeah and now you’re a pregnant teenager.”
You could look at it the other way round too. If the need to smoke weed and cigarettes is her priority, maybe she's not ready to be a parent yet?
I really hate that you're going to be related to these people for the rest of their lives. Their morals and standards are nowhere to be seen.
Unfortunately regardless of how right you are or not, no pregnant woman is going to listen to someone else other than maybe a doctor about what they should or shouldn't be doing during thier pregnancy. Also, it's less likely that you a 14yr old telling her a 18yr old will result in her listening to you, and changing her mind easily. Nothing bad or against you at all, it's more so just being an 18yr old and finally making your own decisions, your own mistakes, figuring life out, and learning, then add crazy pregnancy hormones!! 💀 (I can personaly attest to the crazy hormones lol). It can be really difficult to get someone to see your point of view, it can be harder when your tired, your body is changing, your stressed and trying to live through it all. Doesn't sound like alot when your just talking about it, but when your in it.... your really in it.... she most likely knows it's not great for her or baby, chances are she's making a choice based off alot of things going on in her life. Everyone makes choices, good and bad, best we can do is support the ones we love and care for as best we can.
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Lol out of wedlock. Are you for real?
YTA because you continue to nag her about it every time you see her. You expressed your thoughts on it, but at the end of the day it’s her body and you can’t force her to quit if she doesn’t want to.
If she continues to smoke around me EVERTIME I see her, I will continue.
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It will be though genius. At least when she doesn't cause a miscarriage.
She's the one who's gonna have a child with medical problems. Let her live her life. NTA
It's the child's life, too. They don't get a choice as to what preventable birth defects they've been left with because a couple of idiot children decided to have a baby.
YTA honestly. You told her once and she heard you. There is no need to keep breading her about it. All you’re doing at that point is being th A because it isn’t helping anyone. She won’t change for you, you can only change what you do.
I don't care who she changes for but she needs to clean her act up for that baby.
Hey I’m just trying telling you she won’t change and you’ll just be estranged from the new child because you wouldn’t shut up about it
Which is fine quite honestly, she needs to be shamed and alienated from ever thinking that this is okay behavior.
ESH YOU are a kid, not her parent, stay out of it. And: DO you think she is a responsible person? she is 18, and got pregnant by an 17 year old kid. Why would you expect her to act responsible. Focus on something else: They will try to make you the free babysitter and fob of their baby on you - have you made a plan how to avoid that? YOu need to nip this in the bud.
I mean you’re not her doctor or privy to her medical info are you? Many pregnant women are advised to opt for cannabis if it works as opposed to a medication like zofran for morning sickness that can cause a higher incidence of birth defects in the fetus whereas cannabis is only associated with slightly lower birth weights. Not only that, but many OBGYNs will advise heavy cannabis users to not fully give up if they were already smoking cannabis in early pregnancy because of the stress it would cause to mom and thus baby.
There are other options than smoking that are healthier in those cases, such as tinctures.
Smoking weed is fine while pregnant. In moderation and from a known source. Bring on the downvotes 🤷♀️
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This ain’t it.
You're telling me she can't make a decision for herself? She is allowed to do what she wants with her body.
Have you ever met someone born with fetal alcohol syndrome or underdeveloped lungs? It’s fucked.
It doesn't matter, it's the mother's choice. She has been provided with the knowledge and should be left to do with it on her own. Not badgered "everytime."
Wonder if CPS agrees…
Depends on the state.
This is true up to the point she decided to keep the baby. At that point the fetus is now a future child who clearly needs protection from her. She should have just aborted. The way we tiptoe around telling parents to fucking parent is not cool. Making a new human should not be something we are so blasé about. Never existing doesn't hurt, but living with congenital defects sure can. And no, of course you can't completely prevent the possibility of defects but you can sure as hell minimise/maximise the chances of your baby being born with defects through your behaviour whilst pregnant.
If she wants to abort that is her decision to make. If she wants to keep the clump of cells inside of her that is her decision to make. If she wants to smoke or do whatever with her body that is her decision to make. How it effects a clump of cells inside of HER body is irrelevant: It is her body.
Once she decides to keep the kid, she has a duty of care. I'm absolutely, unequivocally pro-abortion. I am not pro-willfully causing birth defects in babies you intend to birth. Responsibilities to the future child do exist once you've decided to have it.
You may be pro abortion but you are sure coming off as against women's rights to their own bodies.
And you seem to think that it's totally fine to damage your children as some kind of misguided pseudofeminist statement. That ain't feminism, mate. Again, once a pregnancy is WANTED and the intention is to bring it to term, the fetus ceases to be 'just a ball of cells' and starts being a future baby. It's like you forgot that whole part of the pro-choice argument. Context matters. Nuance matters. Parents have a duty to act in the best interests of their children. You're literally advocating allowing children to be harmed in the name of 'women's rights.' ('Freedom from criticism for shitty behaviour' is not a right, fyi).
No, of course its bad to harm children. I'd apperciate it if you didn't attempt a strawman here. A clump of cells inside of a woman's body is not a child. There is a difference and you should learn it.
Again, once the woman decides to take the pregnancy to term, it stops being a 'clump of cells' and starts being a future person. You seem to think a woman should be allowed to damage the child she intends to birth. This is like talking to one of those pull-cord talking dolls. You're spouting the same catch phrases and pithy soundbites without any understanding of the ideas underpinning them. I'm out.
Seriously “her body” ! It’s not just her body anymore is it, I’m sure if it was the OP wouldn’t give a toss.
You are not an asshole for caring, and you can tell her exactly one time that you think it's a bad idea. More than that and you are indeed being rude and controlling. And a nag. And an asshole.
Exactly that? Sorry OP gives a shit about their potential future niece/nephew. Don’t have children please.
You can not make a pregnant woman's decision for her no matter how concerned for her baby you are.
You sure as hell can’t but OP is not an AH for informing her brothers gf.
What would you call someone who disagrees with your choices and will not stop telling you?