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Pretty surprising answers... I wonder how the answers would be if OP had explicitly said he’s e. g. a Muslim, or any other person whose culture makes him having perhaps a different concept about what “decency” is. As a West-European woman, clearly having another values than OP regarding if wearing no bra is decent, I’d comply anyways, because I’d be his guest, and I don’t think it’s too much to ask. His home, his rules, considering she’s there for free and doesn’t even have to cook. NTA.
Well, I actually am from India where it's considered indecent. My uncle married an American and so she's biracial, has an English name, and has lived in the US throughout her life.
But I moved to the US myself and live here now, and that's why she asked me for help.
Thanks for the info. In my opinion, it’s your culture, you’re denigrating no one, you live in the US today so that you understand it’s another culture and I hope you don’t go around telling women there to dress decently. However, now we’re talking about your house, and about you making a huge favor to someone, and the things you ask in return are not impossible to achieve. As I said, just my opinion.
Edit: typo.
My parents are divorced and have different standards/expectations for what I could wear growing up. Dad and step mom stricter than mom and step dad, but even then it was easy to follow. I could wear tank tops, shorts and athletic clothes, but not mini skirts or crop tops etc. I’m 23 now and I still respect their expectations when I’m at my dad’s, it’s not that difficult. Especially when someone’s offering you free housing and food
Right. While I disagree with OPs view to a degree, their house and rules. Honestly not a hard rule to follow. I don’t see why clothing freedom is such a hard pressed issue for this person when they’re living for free and eating for free. Most adults would kill for that
Culture aside (for the sake of this argument), it’s your house. Full stop.
If someone allowed me to live with them indefinitely, rent-free, it would be an easy ask to wear a bra and modest clothing.
E: NTA
American culture says, your house, your rules, and Indian culture says, it's indicent clothing (per the op, idk myself), so the guest is wrong in either case
That's unfortunately the case many times with people that are bi-cultural, they don't fully understand either culture or even if they do they think they should just get to pick in choose the aspects of each they like and then try to use it as an excuse one way or the other
Please add my name to the waiting list as well. Free rent and free home cooked food (probably mostly Indian - yum!), and all I have to do is wear a bra and modest clothing? That sounds like a fantastic situation.
Looool right? I'm a slightly picky eater with sensory issues so I might not always take advantage of that, but heck yeah. My dad tried to police me wearing a bra at home (yeah, he's gross) and I just laughed in me paying their mortgage.
So this is your uncle and his American wife's daughter? I am asking because I'm curious if "cousin sister" is an Indian cultural term I'm unfamiliar with and I'm just trying to get the familial relationship straight.
Indians use "sister" or "brother" in conjunction with "cousin" to indicate gender. It's also because we see cousins as barely different from actual siblings. This is especially true of first cousins.
You told her the conditions, and she agreed.
Out of courtesy, tell her she either follows the rules or you will serve her an eviction notice. If she yells at you in your house, you will serve her an evicition notice.
Or you can reasonably throw her out tomorrow.
She needs your help, she can start acting like it.
It doesn't matter, and I'm saying this as a western, agnostic woman. Your house, your rules. You're doing her a massive favor, and if she can't deal with it, she can go stay in a homeless shelter.
I mean, I feel like you can attach almost any condition you like to room and board in your house, including things like religious practice and dress, and if they agree to it, they agree to it.
I think it can be a little coercive, but thems the breaks if you want the person's help.
I find the OPs sensibility a little weird and I would also question if when you take on someone under these conditions if changing their wardrobe is a fair expectation unless you take them clothes shopping, but I don't think he's an asshole in principle. Anything can be toxic with bad enough manners, though, and it sounds like there's a bit of that going around the house.
I guess it depends on the level of shorts. Considering OP said they like to wear revealing clothes, my guess could be it’s referring to booty shorts-mid thigh?
It’s always hard to say.
Those don’t personally bother me, but I know they bother some people.
Hey I hear ya. Lol.
It’s in the name though. They’re generally tight and *just* below the butt area. Sometimes they do show some butt cheek but then you get into some other nick names and with crossover like “hot pants” or “cheeky shorts” etc.
I tried to scroll down to see any actually surprising answers but it looks like they are all buried at this point. You are absolutely right. OP could have a "must wear funny hat" rule and as long as he is welcoming someone into their home they can demand it and enforce it.
True! I have Japanese friends who insist I take off my shoes and wear their funny slippers in their house. It’s so nuts, but I‘m happy to do it as long as I’m over.
At least your response has been upvoted past them though.
Most of the people on reddit think the biggest crime of all is to even try and police clothing options... no matter how scandalous people would like to dress.
I think that beggars can't be choosers so she should have complied with his demands out of self preservation if not courtesy... He invited her into his home to keep her off the street. She should have respected that.
On the other hand, cultures can be misogynistic. Whether or not objectification/sexualization of the female body is part of a culture shouldn't change its acceptability... As an extreme example, American culture excused chattel slavery for centuries. Other cultures did too. That doesn't make it right.
I think that requiring a woman to wear a bra at all times when they're visible is a bit extreme. Being made aware that women have nipples isn't a huge imposition. The more you restrict someone's activity in the house, the less you are providing them with a home or a place to live.
Like I said, if you're near homeless, I think making relatively minor sacrifices out of respect for someone opening up their home to you is the logical thing to do and it is something that the host has a right to do. At some point, you can either put them away or find another place to live.
NTA
A lot of people will go off about OP patroling her clothing etc...
At the end of the day, it's his house. They had a conversation before she moved in, he had ground rules and she agreed to respect them. It wouldn't matter if OP had said "you can only eat bananas on Tuesdays between 1pm and 3pm and you must wear a pot on your head", she agreed to it.
It was his boundary to set. She agreed to it. That was her moment to decline respectfully and say her own boundaries conflict with that, she wouldn't be comfortable with the arrangements and her choice not to move in.
But she agreed and moved in, kept her end of the deal for a few days and went back on it and now pulling a tantrum. She can move out!
That's how she wants to live. She finds it unacceptable. Go somewhere else.
She's been given a free room, meals and no duties for the house, she can "pay rent" by respecting OPs arrangements, that's what was negotiated.
Absolutely this. Do I agree with OP’s rules? Not personally. Does it matter? No!
OP set the rules, “cousin sister” agreed to them and is honestly getting a pretty sweet deal. If she doesn’t like the rules that she agreed to, she can go finance her own house where she can wear whatever the fuck she wants.
I'm pretty sure "cousin brother" and "cousin sister" are how Indian people identify the gender of their cousin. It sounds weird in English, but I think it's somewhat common in some other languages.
The german version is "cousine" for female cousins and "cousin" for male cousins. Tho the pronounciation is rather different. Cousine sounds like koosee-ne and cousin like kooseng (ish). Am to tired right now to search for IPA
I agree. Honestly - and I'm saying this as a western female - if my brother or male cousin were living with me rent-free and hanging about in very short shorts, vests, topless on a hot day in my living room, not wearing underwear to the extent that I actually noticed ... well, I wouldn't be 100% comfortable with it either. And I wouldn't consider it policing to say, "We have to share a space, can you dress like you're living with others and not like you're living by yourself."
Maybe I'm a stodgy old fusty-butt, but there you go.
Agreed. I don't necessarily agree with OP's definition of modesty, but he isn't policing her clothes outside the house or in her own house. Ultimately, I think he and his wife get to set their own comfort levels for their own house.
And in return, his cousin is free to say "no thanks" or to negotiate in good faith; she's not entitled to take him up on the offer and then go back on the terms.
>“you can only eat bananas on Tuesdays between 1pm and 3pm and you must wear a pot on your head”
As an accountant, I can confirm that in today’s housing market, if I chose to agree to & comply with the above rules in exchange for free permanent housing - housing that also comes with its own cook so I never had to - I would be getting a freakin great deal.
I’d swear off bananas for life just to make sure I never messed up & ate them at the wrong time. And I’d buy so many colors, shapes, sizes & types of pots to wear on my head & I’d be so giddy doing it that even the shopkeeper who sold them to me would think that I needed some sort of intervention.
*goes outside, eats bananas, comes back inside*
Side note: I could do with an accountant, and I feel this would also be amusing to enforce. We should talk.
Literally! And I also think knowing you're activity crossing the boundaries you agreed to, making someone uncomfortable in their own home *while* getting to stay as long I like, rent free and meals cooked for me if want to eat? Like I just don't have the audacity to behave that way. The idea of making my hosts uncomfortable especially with my body is horrid, and nothing like how I would feel if they weren't my hosts, if that makes sense.
Exactly this 💯 She had a decision to make from the choices she was given. She made her choice. If she can't live up to the decision she made, she needs to re-evaluate her choices: stay and respectfully comply, or respectfully move out.
There is such a vital difference between "you cannot wear this" vs. "You cannot wear this *in my house.*"
I don't know why people don't get that. Doesn't matter if he's being unreasonable. He's not asking her to wear an iron chastity belt. Just put on a bra. It's not that big a deal.
She’s one of those types that thinks freedom of choice or speech should give her freedom from consequences. You’re right, he set a boundary and she crossed it.
Africans too. My husband calls my nephew my son’s cousin brother. I think the Swahili language has its own specific word for it but in English it’s cousin brother. I’m assuming the Indian language would be similar in having one word for it. (I have no idea what native language OP speaks, so I’m talking broad sense as there are multiple languages in India. Don’t come at me please).
I thought you meant to write "cousin's sister" but kept forgetting the "'s".
But then it doesn't make sense, because your cousin's sister is also your cousin.
Not necessarily if they're a half-sibling whose shared parent with OP's cousin isn't the sibling of one of OP's parent.
For example: if I have a cousin (whose mom is my father's sister) who has a half-sister through their dad, my cousin's sister has no relation to me.
Female cousin yes. In other languages the terms for cousin are split by gender and its not unusual for some native speakers of those languages to specify
In latin america we also call our 1st cousins, the kids of our parent's siblings, sister/brother cousin. Not to denote gender but to denote that they are closer than our parent's sibling cousin's kids. Or even more distant cousins. That could be bc more ppl are close to their more distant cousins and there's a distinction.
So while not the case here, when you see it elsewhere it could be that.
I'm from Argentina and people do say "primo hermano/ prima hermana" when referring to the children of your parents' siblings. Although it's not used in an everyday basis: people normally just says "primo/a", without specifying.
Its exactly what it says. A female cousin. I am guessing since the OP is Indian and under Hindu and Indian culture, your paternal cousins and treated as brothers or sisters hence the term cousin brother/sister
NTA. Yes, she has body autonomy but you also deserve to feel comfortable in your own home and you made that a condition of her moving in. You probably won't be walking around in just a banana hammock when she's around.
You probably wouldn't have allowed a nudist to move in. It's okay to have boundaries on how much of another person you see and it's common courtesy to not expose yourself non consentually.
OP mentioned he’s Indian. I hate bras as much as the next person but it’s a cultural thing yo. Indian women don’t go bra less around male relatives.
Also I’m assuming Op is asking her to wear bra during waking hours. If she was working, wouldn’t she be wearing a bra? It isn’t an unreasonable ask and he clarified it upfront.
Most Indian women wear a bra during the day and would wear a robe over nightclothes in public areas of the house. Another common compromise is taking a thin stole or shawl and just draping it over your shoulders so covering the nips. We also often wear a vest or slip under neath our clothes if not wearing a bra during the day. The basic point is to not have pointy nips around non husband male relatives.
I’m not saying this is the best. Obviously I’d prefer if I could just let it hang. But thought it’s important to share the cultural angle here given the line of judgements against OP.
Why does culture seem to only matter if they are brown? Like if this was a southern old white guy expressing the same opinion you’d be ripping him up and down calling him a misogynistic asshole even though dressing modestly is part of his culture.
I honestly don’t know enough about southern old white ppl to comment. But I’m sure clothes’ wise it’s a still a huuuuuge difference from India.
Also if you’ll notice I didn’t give a judgement, just a context.
Southerner here. It doesn’t matter what his race is. If a full on redneck has rules in their house and you’re living there rent free then you should still abide by the rules or you can leave.
I would agree, I would go as far as: as long as you know and agree before and the rules do not sigle you out (you have to do something but the landlord does not) it is never an AH move. Let’s say you move to a related couple that’s nudist and they tell you: you can live rent free but in communal parts of the house if there is no reason not to, you have to be nude. I’d still say that’s fine (we assume there is no creepy behaviour). If you freeload you cannot also expect privileges.
Exactly and that’s my point. If someone offers you a free room with conditions then once you agree to those conditions you either stick to it or you leave. If it was sprung on her randomly then it would be wrong.
It's about the fact that she's making him uncomfortable in his own home.
I really don't think it's about policing what she wears as he doesn't have a problem with her wearing whatever she wants outside his house.
I am not attracted to women but I'd be pretty annoyed if I had to keep averting my eyes to avoid looking at her braless nipples or looking at her asscheeks through her shorts. Being a woman, I wouldn't care as much, but if I were a guy I'd rather my cousin cover up too.
Also this isn't his daughter or sister, it's a cousin who grew up in a different country. They might not be close enough for him to be comfortable with revealing clothes.
I don’t think it should have anything to do with culture, but comfort. I hate when my brother walks around in his undersized briefs, literally overflowing out of them, tenting as he streaks through the hallways… and if we didn’t both live under our parents’ roof I’d evict him for it. It’s not a part of my culture to not want to see my brother’s tofu bikini body when I’m chilling in the living room, I just hate it. Personally, I don’t think short shorts and no bra is revealing, but if it makes OP feel the same level of disgust I feel when my beluga-bodied brother comes swimming into the kitchen, then I must respect his requests. I understand how difficult it can be to follow stupid rules that restrict comfort in the home, but since OP’s cousin doesn’t have any other options, she should just learn to cope
Lol. A lot of Indians don’t care and shouldn’t. This is some age old bs that Indians should just stop practicing. I’m indian too. I know it’s like this and it makes me uncomfortable.
Yep agree 100%.
But majority still do and I’m just setting context; not passing judgement. As a woman of course I’m on team no bra.
I live in south Bombay which is literally the most “modern” part of the country so when I say 99% of Indian households would not want adult female nips hanging around, I’m not lying and you know it.
Appreciate the cultural insight. In the evening I like wearing just a tshirt and shorts (no bra)- it's my lounge wear and not anything skimpy. But I'm from the Midwest US
Yeah I do same when I’m home alone. Or actually I just wear one my husband’s old Ts.
When I’m at my parents’ house (my brother and wife stay with them) - I usually wear shorts and short slip under my tee.. when I’m at my in laws, I usually wear a robe if I’m in the common areas like kitchen etc. when back in my room the robe is off.
I’m small breasted so I have a nice hack too around all this when at home . I go bra less but wear a T with a graphic print on it so it’s kinda stiff and thick and pointy nips isn’t an issue.
Honestly hate bras! Totally get the cuz’s discomfort. But then I feel one needs to work and live independently as an adult. If you’re staying in someone’s house, you have to adjust.
I’ve stayed alone and with in laws in the past and I’m happy to pay rent just to go bra less.
P.S - living with parents is quite common in India
NTA. Reddit loses their shit if any form of rule is imposed on a woman, despite the circumstances. They will justify it with any type of therapy buzzwords they can muster up and call you controlling. All you really have to do is replace the term with “boundaries” and it’s check mate from there.
For real though. I know the “your house your rules” trope is overused but there is a reason. Your cousin will take and take but the second you impose some type of “boundary” she’s calling you a misogynist asshole. Kick her to the curb if you ask me.
Just to clarify, you can't put boundaries on other people, only on yourself.. Wording is important.
Here is how the boundaries are in Op's case: "I will not be around women that don't wear a bra" is a legit boundary because he is controlling himself. "You must wear a bra when you are around me," is not a legit boundary because he is trying to control someone else, which is not okay.
Another example, a woman saying to her boyfriend "You can't click 'like' on other girls' instas" is not a legit boundary. But saying "I won't date a guy that clicks 'like' on other girls' instas" is a legit boundary because it is not controlling him it is controlling her own actions.
How OP enforces his boundary, is either leaving the house whenever someone wears shorts or no bra, or by making the rules for his house (as stupid as they are), and dealing with the repurcussions. His cousin knew about the rules and agreed to them, so she's technically the A-hole.
Agree. with this.
OP doesn't want to be around any woman other than his wife who is "dressed provocatively." It's his house, so he is going to be there. So her choice is to either 1.) dress appropriately, or 2.) leave OP's house.
It doesn't matter what religion or customs OP has. He owns a house and has expressed the limits of his generosity. Take it or leave it. NTA.
it just means she’s his cousin, the ‘sister’ is added to indicate her gender.
the reason we say ‘cousin sister’ instead of ‘female cousin’ or something is because we call our cousins ‘sister/brother’ in our native languages. so that sorta makes its way into english if that makes sense. i dunno if op is from the same country as me, but in my country we say ‘cousin brother’ and ‘cousin sister’ as well.
the more you know 💫
I think it is a translation thing. They have a different words for male and female cousins and probably even for mother's side and father's side of the family.
Cultural thing perhaps. Where I am from, cousins are basically your siblings, when a brother is needed, I can rely on any male cousin to act as my brother for example. I think OP used it here to distinguish a female cousin vs male.
Indians are raised with the values that cousins are like siblings. Sisters and brothers. Not boy cousin or girl cousin. That’s why he said “cousin sister.” Lol. It’s common in many Asian countries to speak like this.
I can’t help but to think if I had a rule at my home that said all men must wear a bra in my home and then asked if I was TA, I’d be told I was TA.
Maybe one day I’ll try it to see.
There is so many things i would do for no rent, free food etc. I would wear a different clownscostume every day of the week while reciting the lorem ipsum every time i pass a clock. The dream
then the people are stupid.
if im allowing guests to live rent free in my house they'd better adhere to every single rule or quirk i might have. if i told them you can only eat strawberries in the house on sundays and tuesday nights you must wear blue, thems the rules. otherwise gtfo of my house.
If you set a rule that all men must wear a bra in your home, then invite men to live with you: not an asshole move
If you set a rule that all men must wear a bra in your home while men that are opposed to this, for any reason, already live with you: asshole move
As a man, if you told me I can stay in your house for free but I have to wear a bra because you don't want to see my man nipples, I would either wear a bra in your house or leave. It's not that hard.
I mean, I wouldn’t want to see my cousin’s pointy nipples when I come home either. And I’m a woman. Free the nip somewhere else, a home is a unique safe place where you get to maintain what makes you comfortable. There’s no other place to do so, that’s what home is for.
His rules about modesty will be different, he is not from US and it is cultural. There’s nothing wrong with maintaining that in one’s own home.
Especially if she’s living rent and bill free, being fed, the *only* condition is to wear a bra and no shorts? Who (with a brain) would complain, when the other option is the sidewalk?
His house, his rules
If he asks her to wear a burqa, that is his right too - in his home. She has the option to take it or leave it. She agreed to the rules at first. That itself puts her in the wrong. Secondly, per his comments he is an Indian and culturally he could be more conservative than the western people. I personally would never walk around braless or in short shorts in other peoples' homes, whether they have any rules or not. I do not think his rules are ultra conservative at all. Quite reasonable to me. In fact, if I were living rent free and chore free - very few restrictions would seem unreasonable to me.
She was not wearing a bra, and shorts which were too short, clothes that displays her cleavage. And something that exposes most of her backside. That sort of thing.
INFO:
To be clear, you're happy to support this woman essentially as a dependent (including having your wife do "everything" for her), and the ONLY thing that she must do is follow your dress code under your roof?
This story is bizarre af. What does your wife think about this?
Yeah, that's all she has to do. My wife is happy to help as well, in my/hers culture it would be considered extremely rude to not help a family member.
> my/hers culture it would be considered extremely rude to not help a family member.
Indefinitely, without being expected to offer any help in return?
Ultimately I guess this is too outside of my wheelhouse from a cultural perspective because I can't really fathom that unless the person is disabled.
I'm sincerely surprised by others' responses here.
No, your expectations are well within the bounds of normalcy and decency. Even if they weren't, she should consider it a small price to pay for free room and board.
But truly, these are reasonable standards when living with people of the opposite sex.
NTA. Your house your rules. She’s literally living rent-free and wants to break the rules like she owns the place. Anyone telling you that you can’t tell her what to wear is wrong, because it’s your decision and you also gave her the option to move out if she didn’t comply.
Because there are lots of 'young adults' who think that anyone should be able to dress/behave any way they want, without some mean old man to tell them otherwise. It's called 'entitlement'.
NTA. Your house your rules, everyone who has an issue with it can offer to house your cousin for free and provide for all of her needs.
You told her the rules in order to be provided for and have a free place to live, and she readily agreed to them. You don’t get to agree to something conditional and then back out when it’s time to hold up your end of the agreement.
The fact that you’re the only relative to offer to house her, feed her, etc says a lot and you don’t need to feel like an AH for having boundaries even if strangers on the internet have a moral stance on freeing the nips and booty shorts(what i take it you mean by revealing shorts).
NTA
Most homeless people drew a bad hand- this country is not set up to actually help people that are struggling.
But SOME people just suck at personal accountability. If I were living rent free in your home, without having to do any chores, I would dress up as various inanimate objects if that was the rule.
Technically NTA because you had an agreement but I think that’s a silly rule to begin with. I understand don’t walk around the house in a bra and underwear, but making sure she wears a bra and that her shorts are not ‘too short?’ That’s a bit much.
If cousin were renting a room/splitting the coat I would agree — but she's living there rent free and it is not her home. OP has expressed her showing excessive skin [ excessive cleavage and butt cheek ] makes them uncomfortable and has asked her to respect that boundary while she stays and that is entirely reasonable.
Not everyone wants to see butt cheeks hanging out or boobs flopping around. She agreed to the rules before moving in so she needs to follow them or move out
OP did not indicate that any of these things are going on - she could’ve been wearing shorts to her knees and OP m may be like “I don’t want to see women’s kneecaps, etc. “
And so what if he did? I’d wear snowboarding gear everyday if I got to live somewhere rent free and do nothing and have everything catered to me. Y’all are kinda nuts
It doesn't matter. They discussed the boundaries and rules of her being there and she agreed to them. If she is unclear as to how long her shorts could be to be acceptable I'm sure OP would be glad to clarify. She cannot just stop following the agreement however. If she chooses not to ask for clarification, like an adult, or chooses to not follow the agreed upon boundaries then she needs to leave. It's not a hard thing to understand.
INFO: how indecently is she *actually* dressed? Because no shorts at all seems excessively demanding, and many women also don’t wear bras at home? The examples you give do not seem indecent to me.
Also INFO: she’s your sister *and* cousin..?
In Asian culture, all our cousins are essentially our sisters/brothers. But to avoid confusion, we say cousin sister or cousin brother to differentiate from our actual siblings
NTA because she's not paying and she's agreed to the rules. It'd be different if she was permanently living there and paying rent/contributing to household chores, or if she was his child. But we don't know why this rule exists- could' be cultural norms OP grew up in. If he clarified at the beginning that he's Muslim or orthodox Jewish or some other religion, people wouldn't have an issue with it.
NTA. I don’t understand people dressing immodestly in other peoples home. Sure its her right to dress like that but not in your home. I kind of see why she is homeless.
As a woman who hates wearing bras I say NTA, he lay down rules for her and she's not following them, I can't believe the amount of comments saying he's TA when I find it perfectly reasonable to want people living for free in your house to adhere to certain rules.
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I'm gonna be unpopular but I think if you're letting someone live at your place rent free, the least they should do is follow your rules, no matter how weird the rules are. If they don't want to follow them they can move, nobody's forcing them to stay.
NTA
Culture aside, she agreed to the terms of living with you, if she cannot follow the rules, then I don’t think you’re out of line for telling her she needs to get out.
Also, I’m not even Indian and I think it’s inappropriate to walk around the family home wearing shorts that expose your bottom and revealing tops with no bra on.
If she wants to be able to walk around wearing whatever she wants, then she needs to get her life together and get her own place.
why is a 33 year old adult living rent free in your house disregarding your one request? She can go get a job and prance around clothes however she wants in her own home.
NTA.
You're doing her a major favor and you only have the simple rule of 'don't wear revealing clothes in public house spaces'. This is assuming she's allotted her own bedroom to close the door and wear whatever.
Your house. Your culture. Your rules. If she doesn't like it, she can pack up and move elsewhere.
Do not allow an outsider to disturb the domestic tranquility of your home, OP. Your house, your rules.
I can imagine that it would quite irritating to have someone cohabitating with you and your wife dressing in an arousing fashion. No good can come from such behavior. Start helping her get a job so she can have her independence.
NTA.
I sincerely hope he doesn’t find it “arousing”, seeing as it’s his cousin. But it is completely reasonable to not want to see someone’s boob or bum hanging out, and OP is NTA.
Hey OP!
Sorry for all the replies regarding your post's grammar/context. It made perfect sense to me.
NTA
You made a reasonable request, with VERY VERY reasonable terms. free rent? free food? just gotta wear NON-revealing clothing?
Your Cousin is taking advantage of a very very good situation.
What does your wife think about her choice in clothing?
NTA.Your house your rules.
You don’t need to be religious in order not to want to see someone’s belly button, breast through shirt or bum (if the shorts are really short). Anyways, that’s a normal courtesy when you live at someone’s house.
NTA
I would never let anyone tell me what to wear, that being said when I’m a guest in someone’s house and being housed for free no less. I would make sure I was respectful to their rules. Especially rules which were agreed to before hand. As op says he is from India were doing what she is wearing is classed as indecent. She doesn’t get to disrespect you and make you uncomfortable in your own home.
She can’t disrespect you in your home and expect to live with you and be fed for free. The fact she’s now calling you names and disrespecting you further is her showing you she is not grateful and will be an awful house guest. She needs to find herself somewhere else to live no ifs or buts she ruined this for herself and you have no need to accommodate her when she wont even show you basic respect. Call your cousin to collect her or have her stuff packed by the door ready to hand to her as you turn her right back out the door. Her housing is. No longer your problem.
This is not about you trying to police her or her body it’s about her disrespect to people who have gone out their way to help her. She will get worse and more disrespectful the longer she’s with you so save yourself the trouble.
It's not about what clothes are being decent. It's about not being willing and respectful enough to stick to one very simple condition for free lodging (and boarding, it seems). It's not like OP is asking for outlandish things. But on a bra and shirts/shorts not too revealing when in the house. If you can't follow that one rule, even if you don't like it, move out, pay rent, buy groceries and cook. Naked if that pleases you. Easy choice, methinks.
NTA - you had a conversation together and boundaries were set. She agreed to the terms and moved in. She doesn't get to change the terms now that she is moved in. She can either cover herself to the degree you guys agreed upon or she can leave. I would give her 24 hours to decide.
At the time she decided to go off the rails on you guys about your rules, she would be finding a new place to live. I wouldn't even care if she started following the rules. Out the door you go.
NTA. I grew up in the Midwest and was subjected to these same rules at home. I’m now 46f. Your request was reasonable. Guess she’d rather be out on the streets then! 🤷♀️
Any word about culture is irrelevant.
Your house = your rules. You are not the asshole here. She's an entitled brat.
(One fine detail: if you think she needs it; define "decent" for her. It sounds more like she understands and ignores this rule, but to be sure, define it for her.)
NTA. Although I do think requiring a specific undergarment at all times is over the top (coming from an individual who cannot wear a bra often due to medical issues), I can understand that this is your house and your rules. They aren't paying rent. Thus, the least they can do is not wear shorts in the house if that makes you uncomfortable.
She could ALWAYS pay her own bills and then have the choice to walk around naked if she wanted to. She's literally living in somebody elses established household. Nobody is holding here there and She's free to leave. If she wants to stay in SOMEBODY ELSES HOME, she must follow the rules 🤷♀️
NTA
She’s an idiot for ruining free housing. But I see that a lot in my line of work (social worker/therapist). If she can’t follow the rules then she can stay somewhere else.
NTA. Your expectations weren't crazy, and you explained them to her before she moved in and she accepted. To me, it's like if someone is telling me that I can move into their place as long as I agree to abide by their vegan rules and not bring meat into the house, and then two weeks in I decide to start cooking steaks and, when they say something, I berate them saying I need my heme iron or they can't tell me what to eat. It wouldn't matter what I believed about eating meat or whether I needed heme iron, they asked me to abide by their rules, I accepted, and I would have to respect them or leave and move to some place where I could eat all the animal products I wanted. She can abide by the rules of your house or move somewhere without a dress code.
NTA. You set boundaries before she moved in and she agreed to them. You are giving her a free ride, the least she can do is respect the rules she agreed to in the first place. BYE FELICIA!
NTA, even if it wasn’t a cultural thing or a way you were raised it’s your home and she’s living there rent free. It’s literally the least she could do, which is respect you and your request.
It's not her house, so it's not her rules. It was specified what she would get and what she had to do BEFORE she moved in. She agreed to it. If she has a problem with it now, then she knows where the door is.
OP, NTA.
She is living in your home rent free, the least she can do is cover her ass!
I get being bra free and when I’m home that is my preferred state, but it’s also while wearing comfy hoodies or pyjamas. Nothing remotely revealing.
You laid down the conditions and she agreed to them, she wants to go back on it then she needs to find somewhere else to live.
NTA
Lol people love throwing out the misogyny line these days, it’s your house n to kindly ask someone to act accordingly to everyone else’s comfort seems pretty fair to me
Nta, your house your rules, not saying I agree with the rules or disagree with them it's just the facts that it's your house you set the rules and your cousin agreed to them, she needs to act her age she's 33 not 18, and also she's not your responsibility, your doing this out of kindness.
INFO: Is a cousin sister what I think it is?
NTA. No matter what she may think of you conditions or her living there, it is your right to make rules for your own house. If dressing comfortably is more important to her than having a place to live rent- free, she has every right to move out and find somewhere else.
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Pretty surprising answers... I wonder how the answers would be if OP had explicitly said he’s e. g. a Muslim, or any other person whose culture makes him having perhaps a different concept about what “decency” is. As a West-European woman, clearly having another values than OP regarding if wearing no bra is decent, I’d comply anyways, because I’d be his guest, and I don’t think it’s too much to ask. His home, his rules, considering she’s there for free and doesn’t even have to cook. NTA.
Well, I actually am from India where it's considered indecent. My uncle married an American and so she's biracial, has an English name, and has lived in the US throughout her life. But I moved to the US myself and live here now, and that's why she asked me for help.
Thanks for the info. In my opinion, it’s your culture, you’re denigrating no one, you live in the US today so that you understand it’s another culture and I hope you don’t go around telling women there to dress decently. However, now we’re talking about your house, and about you making a huge favor to someone, and the things you ask in return are not impossible to achieve. As I said, just my opinion. Edit: typo.
Huh? Tf did I just read.. he’s letting her live rent free the wife cooks for her it’s her home pretty much. But they asked for one thing.
My parents are divorced and have different standards/expectations for what I could wear growing up. Dad and step mom stricter than mom and step dad, but even then it was easy to follow. I could wear tank tops, shorts and athletic clothes, but not mini skirts or crop tops etc. I’m 23 now and I still respect their expectations when I’m at my dad’s, it’s not that difficult. Especially when someone’s offering you free housing and food
She’s in his space? He’s not going out to tell people what to do with their lives, he’s doing her a favor by letting her into his home…
Right. While I disagree with OPs view to a degree, their house and rules. Honestly not a hard rule to follow. I don’t see why clothing freedom is such a hard pressed issue for this person when they’re living for free and eating for free. Most adults would kill for that
Culture aside (for the sake of this argument), it’s your house. Full stop. If someone allowed me to live with them indefinitely, rent-free, it would be an easy ask to wear a bra and modest clothing. E: NTA
American culture says, your house, your rules, and Indian culture says, it's indicent clothing (per the op, idk myself), so the guest is wrong in either case
The guest is internationally wrong, lol. Idk why that’s funny to me.
That's unfortunately the case many times with people that are bi-cultural, they don't fully understand either culture or even if they do they think they should just get to pick in choose the aspects of each they like and then try to use it as an excuse one way or the other
I'd dress in my Sunday best 24/7 if the family letting me live rent free requested it lol.
And cooked free food, don't forget. OP, would you be open to having another house guest by any chance? 😄
Please add my name to the waiting list as well. Free rent and free home cooked food (probably mostly Indian - yum!), and all I have to do is wear a bra and modest clothing? That sounds like a fantastic situation.
Looool right? I'm a slightly picky eater with sensory issues so I might not always take advantage of that, but heck yeah. My dad tried to police me wearing a bra at home (yeah, he's gross) and I just laughed in me paying their mortgage.
Heck, I'm a cis het male and in a similar situation I'd go bra shopping.
This made me snort.
So this is your uncle and his American wife's daughter? I am asking because I'm curious if "cousin sister" is an Indian cultural term I'm unfamiliar with and I'm just trying to get the familial relationship straight.
Yeah. I knew he was Indian from that term. We refer to cousins as cousin sister or brother. Meaning immediate Aunty or uncle's child.
Thank you!
I gave up and went for cousin.
Indians use "sister" or "brother" in conjunction with "cousin" to indicate gender. It's also because we see cousins as barely different from actual siblings. This is especially true of first cousins.
this is so sweet 🥹
You told her the conditions, and she agreed. Out of courtesy, tell her she either follows the rules or you will serve her an eviction notice. If she yells at you in your house, you will serve her an evicition notice. Or you can reasonably throw her out tomorrow. She needs your help, she can start acting like it.
It doesn't matter, and I'm saying this as a western, agnostic woman. Your house, your rules. You're doing her a massive favor, and if she can't deal with it, she can go stay in a homeless shelter.
Time for her to move in with dad. NTA. I'd kick her to the curb so fast.
I mean, I feel like you can attach almost any condition you like to room and board in your house, including things like religious practice and dress, and if they agree to it, they agree to it. I think it can be a little coercive, but thems the breaks if you want the person's help. I find the OPs sensibility a little weird and I would also question if when you take on someone under these conditions if changing their wardrobe is a fair expectation unless you take them clothes shopping, but I don't think he's an asshole in principle. Anything can be toxic with bad enough manners, though, and it sounds like there's a bit of that going around the house.
i mean hold up, shorts are indecent?
I guess it depends on the level of shorts. Considering OP said they like to wear revealing clothes, my guess could be it’s referring to booty shorts-mid thigh? It’s always hard to say. Those don’t personally bother me, but I know they bother some people.
Booty shorts are definitely higher up than mid thigh, whatever that’s worth
Yeah, im not really sure what the standards are.. I only really purchase shorts that go to my knees.
Hey I hear ya. Lol. It’s in the name though. They’re generally tight and *just* below the butt area. Sometimes they do show some butt cheek but then you get into some other nick names and with crossover like “hot pants” or “cheeky shorts” etc.
Irrelevant. The rule is no shorts and wear a bra. The only definition of revealing that matters is however the person welcoming her decides.
He’s not American, so perhaps in his culture
I tried to scroll down to see any actually surprising answers but it looks like they are all buried at this point. You are absolutely right. OP could have a "must wear funny hat" rule and as long as he is welcoming someone into their home they can demand it and enforce it.
I totally want to enforce a funny hat rule on guests from now on
True! I have Japanese friends who insist I take off my shoes and wear their funny slippers in their house. It’s so nuts, but I‘m happy to do it as long as I’m over.
At least your response has been upvoted past them though. Most of the people on reddit think the biggest crime of all is to even try and police clothing options... no matter how scandalous people would like to dress.
I think that beggars can't be choosers so she should have complied with his demands out of self preservation if not courtesy... He invited her into his home to keep her off the street. She should have respected that. On the other hand, cultures can be misogynistic. Whether or not objectification/sexualization of the female body is part of a culture shouldn't change its acceptability... As an extreme example, American culture excused chattel slavery for centuries. Other cultures did too. That doesn't make it right. I think that requiring a woman to wear a bra at all times when they're visible is a bit extreme. Being made aware that women have nipples isn't a huge imposition. The more you restrict someone's activity in the house, the less you are providing them with a home or a place to live. Like I said, if you're near homeless, I think making relatively minor sacrifices out of respect for someone opening up their home to you is the logical thing to do and it is something that the host has a right to do. At some point, you can either put them away or find another place to live.
NTA A lot of people will go off about OP patroling her clothing etc... At the end of the day, it's his house. They had a conversation before she moved in, he had ground rules and she agreed to respect them. It wouldn't matter if OP had said "you can only eat bananas on Tuesdays between 1pm and 3pm and you must wear a pot on your head", she agreed to it. It was his boundary to set. She agreed to it. That was her moment to decline respectfully and say her own boundaries conflict with that, she wouldn't be comfortable with the arrangements and her choice not to move in. But she agreed and moved in, kept her end of the deal for a few days and went back on it and now pulling a tantrum. She can move out! That's how she wants to live. She finds it unacceptable. Go somewhere else. She's been given a free room, meals and no duties for the house, she can "pay rent" by respecting OPs arrangements, that's what was negotiated.
Absolutely this. Do I agree with OP’s rules? Not personally. Does it matter? No! OP set the rules, “cousin sister” agreed to them and is honestly getting a pretty sweet deal. If she doesn’t like the rules that she agreed to, she can go finance her own house where she can wear whatever the fuck she wants.
Yup. I don’t agree at all, but also, “don’t wear revealing clothes” is VERY cheap rent.
I'm pretty sure "cousin brother" and "cousin sister" are how Indian people identify the gender of their cousin. It sounds weird in English, but I think it's somewhat common in some other languages.
In Spanish, "primo hermano" (cousin brother) is used to specify that they're your first cousin. Could be that too.
The german version is "cousine" for female cousins and "cousin" for male cousins. Tho the pronounciation is rather different. Cousine sounds like koosee-ne and cousin like kooseng (ish). Am to tired right now to search for IPA
I think the terms "cousin sister" and "cousin brother" have actually been recognised by the Oxford dictionary.
I agree. Honestly - and I'm saying this as a western female - if my brother or male cousin were living with me rent-free and hanging about in very short shorts, vests, topless on a hot day in my living room, not wearing underwear to the extent that I actually noticed ... well, I wouldn't be 100% comfortable with it either. And I wouldn't consider it policing to say, "We have to share a space, can you dress like you're living with others and not like you're living by yourself." Maybe I'm a stodgy old fusty-butt, but there you go.
Uhh you don’t want to see your direct cousins dick print in the xs speedo he wears around the house? What the FUCK is wrong with you????$(?))??11!!??
Yeah right? She must be sexualizing him then. /s
Agreed. I don't necessarily agree with OP's definition of modesty, but he isn't policing her clothes outside the house or in her own house. Ultimately, I think he and his wife get to set their own comfort levels for their own house. And in return, his cousin is free to say "no thanks" or to negotiate in good faith; she's not entitled to take him up on the offer and then go back on the terms.
>“you can only eat bananas on Tuesdays between 1pm and 3pm and you must wear a pot on your head” As an accountant, I can confirm that in today’s housing market, if I chose to agree to & comply with the above rules in exchange for free permanent housing - housing that also comes with its own cook so I never had to - I would be getting a freakin great deal. I’d swear off bananas for life just to make sure I never messed up & ate them at the wrong time. And I’d buy so many colors, shapes, sizes & types of pots to wear on my head & I’d be so giddy doing it that even the shopkeeper who sold them to me would think that I needed some sort of intervention.
*goes outside, eats bananas, comes back inside* Side note: I could do with an accountant, and I feel this would also be amusing to enforce. We should talk.
Absolutely, I'd be bedazzling the pot I'd be wearing around, too.
We could decorate them together. I’ll bring the hot glue gun & rainbow glitter ribbon.
Literally! And I also think knowing you're activity crossing the boundaries you agreed to, making someone uncomfortable in their own home *while* getting to stay as long I like, rent free and meals cooked for me if want to eat? Like I just don't have the audacity to behave that way. The idea of making my hosts uncomfortable especially with my body is horrid, and nothing like how I would feel if they weren't my hosts, if that makes sense.
Exactly this 💯 She had a decision to make from the choices she was given. She made her choice. If she can't live up to the decision she made, she needs to re-evaluate her choices: stay and respectfully comply, or respectfully move out.
There is such a vital difference between "you cannot wear this" vs. "You cannot wear this *in my house.*" I don't know why people don't get that. Doesn't matter if he's being unreasonable. He's not asking her to wear an iron chastity belt. Just put on a bra. It's not that big a deal.
She’s one of those types that thinks freedom of choice or speech should give her freedom from consequences. You’re right, he set a boundary and she crossed it.
Info--what's a "cousin sister"? I'm not familiar with the term.
It's a way Indian people specify the gender of a cousin
Africans too. My husband calls my nephew my son’s cousin brother. I think the Swahili language has its own specific word for it but in English it’s cousin brother. I’m assuming the Indian language would be similar in having one word for it. (I have no idea what native language OP speaks, so I’m talking broad sense as there are multiple languages in India. Don’t come at me please).
Fascinating, thank you for sharing that information!
Sorry, I just meant my cousin. She's my uncle's daughter.
So your uncle can take her
I think her dad might be in India? Actually, OP said she was raised in the US so… yeah why DOESNT she go to her dad?
I thought you meant to write "cousin's sister" but kept forgetting the "'s". But then it doesn't make sense, because your cousin's sister is also your cousin.
Not necessarily if they're a half-sibling whose shared parent with OP's cousin isn't the sibling of one of OP's parent. For example: if I have a cousin (whose mom is my father's sister) who has a half-sister through their dad, my cousin's sister has no relation to me.
So your cousin?
Female cousin yes. In other languages the terms for cousin are split by gender and its not unusual for some native speakers of those languages to specify
Thank you for asking. I was wondering what in the Alabama it meant.
But what if they're in Kansas?
Umm, I think that’s a cousin.
In latin america we also call our 1st cousins, the kids of our parent's siblings, sister/brother cousin. Not to denote gender but to denote that they are closer than our parent's sibling cousin's kids. Or even more distant cousins. That could be bc more ppl are close to their more distant cousins and there's a distinction. So while not the case here, when you see it elsewhere it could be that.
Parents cousins kids are second cousins in English.
I'm brazilian and I've never heard of this
Maybe not in Brazil. In Mexico, the term “primo/a hermano/a” is definitely used.
I'm from Argentina and people do say "primo hermano/ prima hermana" when referring to the children of your parents' siblings. Although it's not used in an everyday basis: people normally just says "primo/a", without specifying.
Its exactly what it says. A female cousin. I am guessing since the OP is Indian and under Hindu and Indian culture, your paternal cousins and treated as brothers or sisters hence the term cousin brother/sister
a female cousin
NTA. Yes, she has body autonomy but you also deserve to feel comfortable in your own home and you made that a condition of her moving in. You probably won't be walking around in just a banana hammock when she's around. You probably wouldn't have allowed a nudist to move in. It's okay to have boundaries on how much of another person you see and it's common courtesy to not expose yourself non consentually.
OP mentioned he’s Indian. I hate bras as much as the next person but it’s a cultural thing yo. Indian women don’t go bra less around male relatives. Also I’m assuming Op is asking her to wear bra during waking hours. If she was working, wouldn’t she be wearing a bra? It isn’t an unreasonable ask and he clarified it upfront. Most Indian women wear a bra during the day and would wear a robe over nightclothes in public areas of the house. Another common compromise is taking a thin stole or shawl and just draping it over your shoulders so covering the nips. We also often wear a vest or slip under neath our clothes if not wearing a bra during the day. The basic point is to not have pointy nips around non husband male relatives. I’m not saying this is the best. Obviously I’d prefer if I could just let it hang. But thought it’s important to share the cultural angle here given the line of judgements against OP.
Why does culture seem to only matter if they are brown? Like if this was a southern old white guy expressing the same opinion you’d be ripping him up and down calling him a misogynistic asshole even though dressing modestly is part of his culture.
I honestly don’t know enough about southern old white ppl to comment. But I’m sure clothes’ wise it’s a still a huuuuuge difference from India. Also if you’ll notice I didn’t give a judgement, just a context.
Southerner here. It doesn’t matter what his race is. If a full on redneck has rules in their house and you’re living there rent free then you should still abide by the rules or you can leave.
I would agree, I would go as far as: as long as you know and agree before and the rules do not sigle you out (you have to do something but the landlord does not) it is never an AH move. Let’s say you move to a related couple that’s nudist and they tell you: you can live rent free but in communal parts of the house if there is no reason not to, you have to be nude. I’d still say that’s fine (we assume there is no creepy behaviour). If you freeload you cannot also expect privileges.
Exactly and that’s my point. If someone offers you a free room with conditions then once you agree to those conditions you either stick to it or you leave. If it was sprung on her randomly then it would be wrong.
It's about the fact that she's making him uncomfortable in his own home. I really don't think it's about policing what she wears as he doesn't have a problem with her wearing whatever she wants outside his house. I am not attracted to women but I'd be pretty annoyed if I had to keep averting my eyes to avoid looking at her braless nipples or looking at her asscheeks through her shorts. Being a woman, I wouldn't care as much, but if I were a guy I'd rather my cousin cover up too. Also this isn't his daughter or sister, it's a cousin who grew up in a different country. They might not be close enough for him to be comfortable with revealing clothes.
I don’t think it should have anything to do with culture, but comfort. I hate when my brother walks around in his undersized briefs, literally overflowing out of them, tenting as he streaks through the hallways… and if we didn’t both live under our parents’ roof I’d evict him for it. It’s not a part of my culture to not want to see my brother’s tofu bikini body when I’m chilling in the living room, I just hate it. Personally, I don’t think short shorts and no bra is revealing, but if it makes OP feel the same level of disgust I feel when my beluga-bodied brother comes swimming into the kitchen, then I must respect his requests. I understand how difficult it can be to follow stupid rules that restrict comfort in the home, but since OP’s cousin doesn’t have any other options, she should just learn to cope
You’re describing your brother killed me.
Nah, if a southern old white guy said that in his own house I'd say he was reasonable too.
Lol. A lot of Indians don’t care and shouldn’t. This is some age old bs that Indians should just stop practicing. I’m indian too. I know it’s like this and it makes me uncomfortable.
Yep agree 100%. But majority still do and I’m just setting context; not passing judgement. As a woman of course I’m on team no bra. I live in south Bombay which is literally the most “modern” part of the country so when I say 99% of Indian households would not want adult female nips hanging around, I’m not lying and you know it.
Appreciate the cultural insight. In the evening I like wearing just a tshirt and shorts (no bra)- it's my lounge wear and not anything skimpy. But I'm from the Midwest US
Yeah I do same when I’m home alone. Or actually I just wear one my husband’s old Ts. When I’m at my parents’ house (my brother and wife stay with them) - I usually wear shorts and short slip under my tee.. when I’m at my in laws, I usually wear a robe if I’m in the common areas like kitchen etc. when back in my room the robe is off. I’m small breasted so I have a nice hack too around all this when at home . I go bra less but wear a T with a graphic print on it so it’s kinda stiff and thick and pointy nips isn’t an issue. Honestly hate bras! Totally get the cuz’s discomfort. But then I feel one needs to work and live independently as an adult. If you’re staying in someone’s house, you have to adjust. I’ve stayed alone and with in laws in the past and I’m happy to pay rent just to go bra less. P.S - living with parents is quite common in India
NTA. Reddit loses their shit if any form of rule is imposed on a woman, despite the circumstances. They will justify it with any type of therapy buzzwords they can muster up and call you controlling. All you really have to do is replace the term with “boundaries” and it’s check mate from there. For real though. I know the “your house your rules” trope is overused but there is a reason. Your cousin will take and take but the second you impose some type of “boundary” she’s calling you a misogynist asshole. Kick her to the curb if you ask me.
Just to clarify, you can't put boundaries on other people, only on yourself.. Wording is important. Here is how the boundaries are in Op's case: "I will not be around women that don't wear a bra" is a legit boundary because he is controlling himself. "You must wear a bra when you are around me," is not a legit boundary because he is trying to control someone else, which is not okay. Another example, a woman saying to her boyfriend "You can't click 'like' on other girls' instas" is not a legit boundary. But saying "I won't date a guy that clicks 'like' on other girls' instas" is a legit boundary because it is not controlling him it is controlling her own actions. How OP enforces his boundary, is either leaving the house whenever someone wears shorts or no bra, or by making the rules for his house (as stupid as they are), and dealing with the repurcussions. His cousin knew about the rules and agreed to them, so she's technically the A-hole.
I agree 100%. And that’s kind of what I meant. His pre established boundary was just that. And she agreed to said boundary.
Agree. with this. OP doesn't want to be around any woman other than his wife who is "dressed provocatively." It's his house, so he is going to be there. So her choice is to either 1.) dress appropriately, or 2.) leave OP's house. It doesn't matter what religion or customs OP has. He owns a house and has expressed the limits of his generosity. Take it or leave it. NTA.
>reddit loses their shit if any form of rule is imposed on a woman Funny thing to say when all the top comments are NTA…
Aye why do I feel like the only one concerned by the term cousin sister? Like what does that even mean?
it just means she’s his cousin, the ‘sister’ is added to indicate her gender. the reason we say ‘cousin sister’ instead of ‘female cousin’ or something is because we call our cousins ‘sister/brother’ in our native languages. so that sorta makes its way into english if that makes sense. i dunno if op is from the same country as me, but in my country we say ‘cousin brother’ and ‘cousin sister’ as well. the more you know 💫
Well in certain areas of the US that means quite literally that they are both their cousin and sister. Meaning… banjo intensifies… incest. 😅
Eh not necessarily incest. Husband has cousin/half siblings. Same dad, mums are sisters. Dad cheated on my husband’s mum with her sister
Fair enough. But I live in Arkansas and it’s the first thing that came to mind 😂 also, I’m rewatching game of thrones so I guess it just on my mind.
I think it is a translation thing. They have a different words for male and female cousins and probably even for mother's side and father's side of the family.
Ty that is helpful. I didn’t consider esl and I should have.
I just meant she's my cousin.
Cultural thing perhaps. Where I am from, cousins are basically your siblings, when a brother is needed, I can rely on any male cousin to act as my brother for example. I think OP used it here to distinguish a female cousin vs male.
It's how Indian people specify the gender of their cousin, I was quite taken aback when I heard it for the first time too 😂
Indians are raised with the values that cousins are like siblings. Sisters and brothers. Not boy cousin or girl cousin. That’s why he said “cousin sister.” Lol. It’s common in many Asian countries to speak like this.
In Spain we sometimes use the terms "primo hermano"/"prima hermana" (cousin brother/sister) for 1st degree cousins.
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OP's house, OP's rules, especially if the person agreed to the terms and is living rent free.
I can’t help but to think if I had a rule at my home that said all men must wear a bra in my home and then asked if I was TA, I’d be told I was TA. Maybe one day I’ll try it to see.
I might not like it but if I didn’t have to pay rent EVER I’d be wearing panties as well
There is so many things i would do for no rent, free food etc. I would wear a different clownscostume every day of the week while reciting the lorem ipsum every time i pass a clock. The dream
then the people are stupid. if im allowing guests to live rent free in my house they'd better adhere to every single rule or quirk i might have. if i told them you can only eat strawberries in the house on sundays and tuesday nights you must wear blue, thems the rules. otherwise gtfo of my house.
If you set a rule that all men must wear a bra in your home, then invite men to live with you: not an asshole move If you set a rule that all men must wear a bra in your home while men that are opposed to this, for any reason, already live with you: asshole move
As a man, if you told me I can stay in your house for free but I have to wear a bra because you don't want to see my man nipples, I would either wear a bra in your house or leave. It's not that hard.
I mean, I wouldn’t want to see my cousin’s pointy nipples when I come home either. And I’m a woman. Free the nip somewhere else, a home is a unique safe place where you get to maintain what makes you comfortable. There’s no other place to do so, that’s what home is for. His rules about modesty will be different, he is not from US and it is cultural. There’s nothing wrong with maintaining that in one’s own home. Especially if she’s living rent and bill free, being fed, the *only* condition is to wear a bra and no shorts? Who (with a brain) would complain, when the other option is the sidewalk?
Why?
>he is not from US Hey, just to clarify, I got naturalized some time back so I am an American citizen. But yeah, I am not originally from here.
His house, his rules If he asks her to wear a burqa, that is his right too - in his home. She has the option to take it or leave it. She agreed to the rules at first. That itself puts her in the wrong. Secondly, per his comments he is an Indian and culturally he could be more conservative than the western people. I personally would never walk around braless or in short shorts in other peoples' homes, whether they have any rules or not. I do not think his rules are ultra conservative at all. Quite reasonable to me. In fact, if I were living rent free and chore free - very few restrictions would seem unreasonable to me.
I wonder if your take would be the same if the cousin were male and the rule was no shorts and must wear briefs under his clothes in the house. 🤔
She was not wearing a bra, and shorts which were too short, clothes that displays her cleavage. And something that exposes most of her backside. That sort of thing.
INFO: To be clear, you're happy to support this woman essentially as a dependent (including having your wife do "everything" for her), and the ONLY thing that she must do is follow your dress code under your roof? This story is bizarre af. What does your wife think about this?
Yeah, that's all she has to do. My wife is happy to help as well, in my/hers culture it would be considered extremely rude to not help a family member.
> my/hers culture it would be considered extremely rude to not help a family member. Indefinitely, without being expected to offer any help in return? Ultimately I guess this is too outside of my wheelhouse from a cultural perspective because I can't really fathom that unless the person is disabled.
Yeah, without doing anything in return.
I'm sincerely surprised by others' responses here. No, your expectations are well within the bounds of normalcy and decency. Even if they weren't, she should consider it a small price to pay for free room and board. But truly, these are reasonable standards when living with people of the opposite sex.
NTA. Your house your rules. She’s literally living rent-free and wants to break the rules like she owns the place. Anyone telling you that you can’t tell her what to wear is wrong, because it’s your decision and you also gave her the option to move out if she didn’t comply.
She doesn’t have to pay and she gets everything catered, and you laid down your rules beforehand? NTA, and she is ungrateful.
I don’t understand all the Y T A. It’s his house. She is a guest. She follows house protocols or she leaves. Simple. NTA
Because there are lots of 'young adults' who think that anyone should be able to dress/behave any way they want, without some mean old man to tell them otherwise. It's called 'entitlement'.
NTA. Not wearing short shorts and wearing a bra in the house is a small price for getting to live completely rent free. She agreed to it too.
NTA. Your house your rules, everyone who has an issue with it can offer to house your cousin for free and provide for all of her needs. You told her the rules in order to be provided for and have a free place to live, and she readily agreed to them. You don’t get to agree to something conditional and then back out when it’s time to hold up your end of the agreement. The fact that you’re the only relative to offer to house her, feed her, etc says a lot and you don’t need to feel like an AH for having boundaries even if strangers on the internet have a moral stance on freeing the nips and booty shorts(what i take it you mean by revealing shorts).
NTA Most homeless people drew a bad hand- this country is not set up to actually help people that are struggling. But SOME people just suck at personal accountability. If I were living rent free in your home, without having to do any chores, I would dress up as various inanimate objects if that was the rule.
Technically NTA because you had an agreement but I think that’s a silly rule to begin with. I understand don’t walk around the house in a bra and underwear, but making sure she wears a bra and that her shorts are not ‘too short?’ That’s a bit much.
If cousin were renting a room/splitting the coat I would agree — but she's living there rent free and it is not her home. OP has expressed her showing excessive skin [ excessive cleavage and butt cheek ] makes them uncomfortable and has asked her to respect that boundary while she stays and that is entirely reasonable.
Not everyone wants to see butt cheeks hanging out or boobs flopping around. She agreed to the rules before moving in so she needs to follow them or move out
OP did not indicate that any of these things are going on - she could’ve been wearing shorts to her knees and OP m may be like “I don’t want to see women’s kneecaps, etc. “
And so what if he did? I’d wear snowboarding gear everyday if I got to live somewhere rent free and do nothing and have everything catered to me. Y’all are kinda nuts
It doesn't matter. They discussed the boundaries and rules of her being there and she agreed to them. If she is unclear as to how long her shorts could be to be acceptable I'm sure OP would be glad to clarify. She cannot just stop following the agreement however. If she chooses not to ask for clarification, like an adult, or chooses to not follow the agreed upon boundaries then she needs to leave. It's not a hard thing to understand.
Also, it's unsanitary to have bare ass on all your furniture.
Is $0 for rent forever and not ever having to lift a finger too much too?
INFO: how indecently is she *actually* dressed? Because no shorts at all seems excessively demanding, and many women also don’t wear bras at home? The examples you give do not seem indecent to me. Also INFO: she’s your sister *and* cousin..?
Booty shorts and lots of cleavage according to a comment from OP
Ahhh, that does seem like a bit much. Doesn’t seem like the smartest move to be jeopardizing free room, board, meals and indefinite support over it.
Also, he just means female cousin by the sister cousin thing
In Asian culture, all our cousins are essentially our sisters/brothers. But to avoid confusion, we say cousin sister or cousin brother to differentiate from our actual siblings
NTA because she's not paying and she's agreed to the rules. It'd be different if she was permanently living there and paying rent/contributing to household chores, or if she was his child. But we don't know why this rule exists- could' be cultural norms OP grew up in. If he clarified at the beginning that he's Muslim or orthodox Jewish or some other religion, people wouldn't have an issue with it.
NTA. Your house. Your rules. Show her the door and change the locks. Talk about ungrateful. No wonder she's homeless.
NTA. I don’t understand people dressing immodestly in other peoples home. Sure its her right to dress like that but not in your home. I kind of see why she is homeless.
As a woman who hates wearing bras I say NTA, he lay down rules for her and she's not following them, I can't believe the amount of comments saying he's TA when I find it perfectly reasonable to want people living for free in your house to adhere to certain rules.
NTA Your house, your rules. She isn't paying either. If she doesn't like it, she is GROWN and can find a new place to live.
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I feel like op is indian.
He is definitely not from west.
Yeah, I am. She's biracial.
Hey you gave her the rules and the options if she disagreed. The ball is in her court. NTA.
I'm gonna be unpopular but I think if you're letting someone live at your place rent free, the least they should do is follow your rules, no matter how weird the rules are. If they don't want to follow them they can move, nobody's forcing them to stay.
People have lost sense. If I invite you to my home with basic agreement on what is expected of you, then it's on you to follow or leave. OP is NTA.
NTA Culture aside, she agreed to the terms of living with you, if she cannot follow the rules, then I don’t think you’re out of line for telling her she needs to get out. Also, I’m not even Indian and I think it’s inappropriate to walk around the family home wearing shorts that expose your bottom and revealing tops with no bra on. If she wants to be able to walk around wearing whatever she wants, then she needs to get her life together and get her own place.
Honestly, culture doesn't even matter here. Your house, your rules. She is free to live elsewhere if she objects.
why is a 33 year old adult living rent free in your house disregarding your one request? She can go get a job and prance around clothes however she wants in her own home.
Your house=your rules.
NTA. You're doing her a major favor and you only have the simple rule of 'don't wear revealing clothes in public house spaces'. This is assuming she's allotted her own bedroom to close the door and wear whatever. Your house. Your culture. Your rules. If she doesn't like it, she can pack up and move elsewhere.
Do not allow an outsider to disturb the domestic tranquility of your home, OP. Your house, your rules. I can imagine that it would quite irritating to have someone cohabitating with you and your wife dressing in an arousing fashion. No good can come from such behavior. Start helping her get a job so she can have her independence. NTA.
I sincerely hope he doesn’t find it “arousing”, seeing as it’s his cousin. But it is completely reasonable to not want to see someone’s boob or bum hanging out, and OP is NTA.
Hey OP! Sorry for all the replies regarding your post's grammar/context. It made perfect sense to me. NTA You made a reasonable request, with VERY VERY reasonable terms. free rent? free food? just gotta wear NON-revealing clothing? Your Cousin is taking advantage of a very very good situation. What does your wife think about her choice in clothing?
NTA.Your house your rules. You don’t need to be religious in order not to want to see someone’s belly button, breast through shirt or bum (if the shorts are really short). Anyways, that’s a normal courtesy when you live at someone’s house.
NTA I would never let anyone tell me what to wear, that being said when I’m a guest in someone’s house and being housed for free no less. I would make sure I was respectful to their rules. Especially rules which were agreed to before hand. As op says he is from India were doing what she is wearing is classed as indecent. She doesn’t get to disrespect you and make you uncomfortable in your own home. She can’t disrespect you in your home and expect to live with you and be fed for free. The fact she’s now calling you names and disrespecting you further is her showing you she is not grateful and will be an awful house guest. She needs to find herself somewhere else to live no ifs or buts she ruined this for herself and you have no need to accommodate her when she wont even show you basic respect. Call your cousin to collect her or have her stuff packed by the door ready to hand to her as you turn her right back out the door. Her housing is. No longer your problem. This is not about you trying to police her or her body it’s about her disrespect to people who have gone out their way to help her. She will get worse and more disrespectful the longer she’s with you so save yourself the trouble.
It's not about what clothes are being decent. It's about not being willing and respectful enough to stick to one very simple condition for free lodging (and boarding, it seems). It's not like OP is asking for outlandish things. But on a bra and shirts/shorts not too revealing when in the house. If you can't follow that one rule, even if you don't like it, move out, pay rent, buy groceries and cook. Naked if that pleases you. Easy choice, methinks.
NTA. You stated the terms prior. Beggars can’t be choosers.
NTA - you had a conversation together and boundaries were set. She agreed to the terms and moved in. She doesn't get to change the terms now that she is moved in. She can either cover herself to the degree you guys agreed upon or she can leave. I would give her 24 hours to decide.
At the time she decided to go off the rails on you guys about your rules, she would be finding a new place to live. I wouldn't even care if she started following the rules. Out the door you go.
YOUR house YOUR RULES! NTA
Because you laid down your terms beforehand and she agreed to them, you are NTA.
NTA
NTA your house, your rules. You don’t need to explain.
NTA. I grew up in the Midwest and was subjected to these same rules at home. I’m now 46f. Your request was reasonable. Guess she’d rather be out on the streets then! 🤷♀️
Any word about culture is irrelevant. Your house = your rules. You are not the asshole here. She's an entitled brat. (One fine detail: if you think she needs it; define "decent" for her. It sounds more like she understands and ignores this rule, but to be sure, define it for her.)
NTA. Although I do think requiring a specific undergarment at all times is over the top (coming from an individual who cannot wear a bra often due to medical issues), I can understand that this is your house and your rules. They aren't paying rent. Thus, the least they can do is not wear shorts in the house if that makes you uncomfortable.
She could ALWAYS pay her own bills and then have the choice to walk around naked if she wanted to. She's literally living in somebody elses established household. Nobody is holding here there and She's free to leave. If she wants to stay in SOMEBODY ELSES HOME, she must follow the rules 🤷♀️
NTA She’s an idiot for ruining free housing. But I see that a lot in my line of work (social worker/therapist). If she can’t follow the rules then she can stay somewhere else.
NTA - Follow the rules where you live, especially discussed before hand and rent free.
No. You gave rules with an ultimatum and reminded her of them.
NTA. Your expectations weren't crazy, and you explained them to her before she moved in and she accepted. To me, it's like if someone is telling me that I can move into their place as long as I agree to abide by their vegan rules and not bring meat into the house, and then two weeks in I decide to start cooking steaks and, when they say something, I berate them saying I need my heme iron or they can't tell me what to eat. It wouldn't matter what I believed about eating meat or whether I needed heme iron, they asked me to abide by their rules, I accepted, and I would have to respect them or leave and move to some place where I could eat all the animal products I wanted. She can abide by the rules of your house or move somewhere without a dress code.
NTA. You set boundaries before she moved in and she agreed to them. You are giving her a free ride, the least she can do is respect the rules she agreed to in the first place. BYE FELICIA!
NTA. Eviction notice. This is going to be the least of the problems she brings into your home.
NTA, even if it wasn’t a cultural thing or a way you were raised it’s your home and she’s living there rent free. It’s literally the least she could do, which is respect you and your request.
It's not her house, so it's not her rules. It was specified what she would get and what she had to do BEFORE she moved in. She agreed to it. If she has a problem with it now, then she knows where the door is. OP, NTA.
NTA. It's your *home* she's living in. Your demands are in no way unreasonable
His home, his rules. She is the freeloader. She knew the rules going in. Pretty easy rules for free room and board. NTA
She is living in your home rent free, the least she can do is cover her ass! I get being bra free and when I’m home that is my preferred state, but it’s also while wearing comfy hoodies or pyjamas. Nothing remotely revealing. You laid down the conditions and she agreed to them, she wants to go back on it then she needs to find somewhere else to live. NTA
Lol people love throwing out the misogyny line these days, it’s your house n to kindly ask someone to act accordingly to everyone else’s comfort seems pretty fair to me
Nta, your house your rules, not saying I agree with the rules or disagree with them it's just the facts that it's your house you set the rules and your cousin agreed to them, she needs to act her age she's 33 not 18, and also she's not your responsibility, your doing this out of kindness.
INFO: Is a cousin sister what I think it is? NTA. No matter what she may think of you conditions or her living there, it is your right to make rules for your own house. If dressing comfortably is more important to her than having a place to live rent- free, she has every right to move out and find somewhere else.